June 11, 2024 • 45 mins
Join us for a deep dive with veteran actor Scott Cohen as he reflects on his 40-year career, offering insights into the evolving landscape of auditions. Scott discusses the shift from traditional in-person auditions to modern self-taping, sharing how this change has influenced his approach.
Scott shares fascinating stories about working with directors, from seasoned veterans to innovative newcomers. He highlights collaborations, such as with director Yuri Zeltser and a short film project with his wife, illustrating how different directorial visions shape an actor's performance. Through these narratives, Scott emphasizes humility, openness, and respect in creative partnerships, offering valuable insights for aspiring actors and filmmakers.
Balancing a thriving career with personal fulfillment, Scott delves into the importance of connecting with the material, maintaining authenticity, and finding joy beyond the set. He advocates for actors learning about other departments on a film set to enhance performances and foster a collaborative spirit. Wrapping up, Scott offers advice on achieving stability and fulfillment amidst the uncertainties of the acting profession, making this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about storytelling.
For our listeners, CFA’s teamed up with We Make Movies to get you a discount on production management services, including access to comprehensive production insurance and workers' comp for your next shoot.
Visit wemakemovies.org/insurance and use code CFA23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Cinematography for Actors
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
More than a podcast.
Cinematography for Actors is avibrant community devoted to
bridging the gap between talentand crew.
Each week, our show offerstransparent, insightful
conversations with industryleaders.
We unveil the magic behind thescenes, from candid discussions
about unique filmmakingprocesses to in-depth technical
exploration.
Join us in unraveling theintricacies of filmmaking, one
(00:26):
episode at a time.
It's more than just cameras andlenses we aim to inspire,
educate and empower as we peelback the curtain on the art of
effective storytelling.
Now on to the episode.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the CFA podcast.
I am one of your co-hosts here,but Haley is back in LA doing a
podcast herself today, which isfunny.
So I'm Indiana Underhill.
I'm here with Scott Cohen, anincredible actor who has a ton
of great work coming out, one ofwhich Circumcision I am seeing
tonight a narrative feature atthe Berkshires International
(01:00):
Film Festival and I'm onlocation today in Lenox,
massachusetts, as Scott has hisboot licked by the wonderful
Rose Budd, who is our white labhere today.
Hi Scott, how are you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I'm good, Indiana, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm so good and I'm really excited because we've
been planning this for a whilenow to get together, and I'm
excited that we're here inperson to do it, because that's
like that's the best.
I don't love the Zoom, I lovelike being in person and like
kind of riffing off each other,so this is great.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It's actually very interesting because I don't
think I've had an in-personaudition in probably six years.
Oh wow, way before COVID, andyou know I mean self-taping was
happening, you know before thatand you know and being offered
things, but I don't think I'veever walked into it.
I haven't walked into a castingoffice in probably six, seven
years and next week I have myfirst in-person audition in
(01:52):
seven years or whatever, and I'mreally psyched about it.
Like my adrenaline is alreadyup.
But then I started to realize,oh no, I'll also be in the room
with other actors that arecompeting for the same part and
it's like the whole idea ofgetting psyched out and all that
kind of stuff really kind ofplays on you and is it
interesting because you know I'mthe cinematographer side of
this business but is itinteresting to see kind of the
(02:14):
other actors like aestheticallyas well and like the variety of
different people going out for asimilar part?
Or do you ever get like psychedout because you have
doppelgangers in there?
Yeah, you have.
Well, you get psyched outbecause you have doppelgangers
and you get psyched out becausethere's diversity.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And you don't know what you know.
You try to figure out.
Well, you try to hang on towhat is singular to you, what is
unique to you, and if you losethat, you're just you're lost.
I mean you really kind of youhave to kind of rediscover your
way through that.
I mean, it is a I thinkauditioning is part of the job
(02:49):
is to walk in and be prepared toknow what you're doing.
But then the other part of thejob is to really walk in to a
room and understand that whatyou're bringing to the table is
unique, is singular, and that'swhat you've worked on, and not
to worry about everybody else inthe room.
It's an enormously difficultjob.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, and not to worry about everybody else in
the room.
It's an enormously difficultjob.
Yeah, this is interesting andI've always found this really
interesting about actors and howhard it is.
Is that idea of, like, you know, how long have you been in the
industry now?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Forty years.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, so for 40 years you know the self-tapes, the
auditions.
What has that been like?
Like when you used to go go in,when you were first starting
out.
What was, how did, how was thatmentality changed?
Was it more that I, you know,cared about how I looked against
the other actors, or what haschanged?
Or have you always beenauthentic to it?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well, I guess you know, authenticity changes, I
think.
I mean I imagine myself that Iwas authentic then.
I feel like I'm authentic now,but in a completely different
way, I think.
Then I mean I remember, youknow, living in New York and
walking up subway steps andactually having panic attacks
walking up subway steps and likebeing at the top of subway
(03:56):
steps and not being able tobreathe and like trying, why am
I not like, why am I having ahard time breathing?
You know, and it really was allabout nerves going into an
audition and I think that youknow.
Then I think the audition therewas such desperation at that
point where you're like you'rejust you're, so you just.
I mean I want to get a job nowtoo.
(04:16):
But like there's a differenceNow.
It's like I kind of think Ifeel more present and I'm also
more accepting of where I'm at,like if I'm, if I'm not where
they think I should be, that'snot really my fault.
It's like I've done whatever Ican do to prepare for, for the
audition and um, and that's whatI have.
It's like I mean, and so I have, I walk away a lot more settled
(04:40):
.
I mean then I used to walk awayfeeling so unsettled and would
often call a manager or an agentand say, can I get back in?
You know, can you get me backin?
And they would be like, can wejust find out what they think?
First I'm like I know theyhated it, I know it, I know it,
I know it.
And then usually, and usuallythe way it would work is if I
(05:01):
hated something, they loved it.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
If.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I loved something, they loved it.
If I loved something, theyhated it.
So why that happens, I have noidea, but that's that's usually
what happened, and I actuallythink that's part of like the
audition process too, becausethe audition process becomes
about, you know, the idea of umand an actor kind of knowing,
like the the the easier you feelin it.
I think there's a certain kindin an in-person audition they're
(05:25):
not feeling the adrenaline,they're not feeling like a, an
energy that's kind of comingacross and I think that's what
people feed off of.
I think people feed off of thatenergy Um.
So I think if you're, if youactually do have nerves, if you,
if you're kind of um, that's agood thing, that's something
that really should live in youand that you shouldn't be afraid
of.
But but a lot of times thepsychology becomes you know that
(05:46):
you, you messed it up, youdidn't, you didn't really do a
good job.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Wow, and for those actors that are kind of, maybe
they are getting invited totheir say, they started acting
during the pandemic when it wasall self-tapes and now they're
getting invited to their likefirst auditions in person and
things like that what are likethe tips that you have for them,
maybe from like a technical ora practical standpoint?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well, let me just say first that I've worked actually
with a, with a number of people, younger people that, um, that
were in school or conservatorywhatever, during the pandemic,
and I've noticed actually thattheir level of presence is so
much greater than what Iexperienced as a young actor, I
(06:28):
mean, and their comfort in frontof a camera is 10 times more, I
think, more than even what I amnow.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Because they're used to being on camera all the time.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Being on camera all the time, and I have, I think,
two ways.
I mean, I think you know, Ithink the self-tape concept is
both advantageous anddisadvantageous, but I, but I,
but I think that the people thatcame out of that are really,
they're much more well prepared,but at the same time, I think
that what happened, what youknow, what they one of the
(06:59):
things that I feel like isimportant to remember, like is
important to remember when youwalk into an in-person audition.
Now, I don't think those peopleare expecting what they would
see on a self-tape.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And if you're.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
If you're prepared, like you are, for a self-tape,
then I think you're going toyou're, you're not going to come
into the room having what Isaid before.
That energy that kind ofcreates that, that kind of um,
that vibe that's in a room thatallows people to kind of see who
you really are, because onself-tape you're, you're, you're
, you're so practiced, I mean,it's so perfect that it's um,
(07:32):
you know, I don't really thinkpeople are seeing who you are.
I think people are seeing a kindof a, a fan, an image, a
fantasy of what you may be orwhat you could be or what you
might be, but in, in in-person,uh, appointments, it's, it is.
There's no lighting no you know, the camera's not.
It's not a good angle, I wouldsay nine, ninety percent of the
time.
And you know, and it's barelyyou know, and and you can move.
(07:54):
I mean usually, and they, theyeither tell you to sit down and
stand up, but but um, anyway.
So my, my, the pointers, I wouldthink is are more about the
idea of what you expect from anin-person audition and what you
expected from a self tapeaudition, and there are two
different things, and I thinkbeing in the room is, um, allow
yourself to be excited by it,because that's a really good
(08:16):
thing.
So, if you think you're likeyou, if you think you're off,
you're probably not off, you'reprobably just doing like if you,
if you, if you uh, just doinglike if you, if you, if you, uh,
if you fuck up, it's okay,because you know, um, that's
what happens in a.
If you're shooting a movie, ifyou're shooting a tv show, right
, you fuck up a lot.
And I mean because I mean, tome it's all about rehearsal,
it's like it's.
It's why I, I would much ratherdo tv and film, because to me
(08:38):
the journey is the discovery, isthe most important part of it
the most fun and so it alwaysfeels like a rehearsal.
It never like if it's aperformance that feels like it's
dead, it's done so, um.
So I feel like if you could, ifyou could experience it as a
rehearsal, then you're, you'reon your way.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Wow, and so recently, you know, we have been at some
of the same film festivals, ourfilms have been sharing some
film festival posters.
Which is really cool is, yeah,and I think I'm noticing I'm
sure it's happened in the pasttoo with us, but I've noticed it
more now because we've beenwe've been in the works of
getting together and talking.
When we've been here atberkshires and recently had a
film at the beverly hills filmfestival, I've been noticing a
(09:16):
lot of the the press around somemovies that you've been doing.
And then here, you know, youhave circumcision premiering
tonight at 8.30.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You say that title so quickly.
Oh yeah, trippingly off thetongue.
Yeah, circumcision.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Circumcision tonight at 8.30.
Yeah, folks, there's nothingcrazy about that, it's true.
I noticed that, you know, thesefilms feel they feel like
different, really unique,one-of-a-kind characters, and I
wonder what it's like to workwith one of a kind characters.
But I also think it's thewriters and directors that are
(09:49):
writing them that are alsoprobably pretty unique
themselves.
What is it like to work with,um, with different directors, I
mean, and maybe some of themnewer and some of them, you know
, have been in the industry awhile.
But how does that, as an actor,work for you, working with
different directors?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
as an actor, work for you, working with different
directors?
Well, um, I used to feel like,um, without putting my foot in
my mouth, I used to feel like,if I wasn't working, a director
that was smarter than me then I,I'm not really that interested.
Right, I've come to the placewhere I think I understand that
you know it's not very helpfulto be that arrogant and people,
most people, are smarter than me.
(10:23):
I don't know, I don't know, butI think that it's.
I feel like the actor at thisstage of my career, that the
actor is truly a vessel of thedirector's vision and it is my
job to really make what they seecome to life.
And I work really hard atmaking that happen and
(10:49):
oftentimes I think I go beyondwhat they even think, that
they're kind of imagining whichI love about what I do, because
I feel like that's the way Iwork, it's like it's the way I
imagine things, it's like I it'sthe way I imagine things, it's
the way it's like I takeeverything very personally.
So if, if someone asks me to doa part, I'm going to really kind
(11:09):
of investigate what it means tome and and and try to
communicate whatever that is onscreen and but I often find that
you know a director that guidesme in a way that surprises me
is really really fun, Wow.
And because if I could keepopen to that and kind of
(11:32):
recognize that, oh, I'm not theonly one thinking on this set.
It's like there's somebody elsewho's thinking on the set and
they.
They wrote it, they directed it.
They know exactly what theywant to do with it.
Directed it, they know exactlywhat they want to do with it
then.
Then I really just need to bekind of an open book and and and
and, really kind of open myheart rip open my skin and allow
them to come in, and and youknow, I mean sometimes you don't
(11:54):
get anything, but other timesyou get quite a lot.
I mean, with this movie,circumcision, I'm working with
the director, yuri Zeltser, whois, I think, brilliant and I
think that he has, you know,he's brilliant because he feels
like he's not that he feels, buthe's attempting to.
He has image in his head ofwhat a movie looks like, and so
(12:15):
he talks about that and that'show he directs, and so I'm
interested in molding mycharacter in relationship to
what he's kind of trying tocreate.
Other times it's.
I love directors that just letme go and trust that I have the
ability to recognize what acharacter is, recognize what the
(12:39):
scene does, recognize how my,what my voice does in the film
itself, and and just lets me goand and because if somebody lets
me do that, they usually haveto pull me back because I'll do
something bigger than what isneeded.
But but that's okay too, andand that's I'm into that, um,
but in the end I find it it isthe most interesting thing to me
(13:04):
to collaborate with anotherperson to make a film, and it is
, um, I find it, uh, it'sthrilling, it's, um, it's
inspiring, it's uh, it'sinteresting.
It's what makes me um, I willdo a shitload of research
because someone else is tellingme what they think and what they
(13:27):
, how they think about something.
So I adore it.
I mean, I mean, it's one of thereasons that I, that I'm in this
, it actually started, I think.
I mean, I have experiences way,way, way back, but I did a
short with a short that my wife,anastasia Trena, wrote, and she
didn't direct the short, butthis we did this maybe 30 years
(13:48):
ago and I remember I was doingthe scene, I was really
struggling and she whispered inmy ear something that had to do
with my motivation in the sceneand it literally was like a
sentence and it was like a shotin my brain and it just like it
(14:10):
pushed me, like it just made mego to another level, and so like
that to me, yeah is in thatmoment, and it's rare that it
happens.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
But in that moment it felt like, oh, I'm creating art
, like that's what's happeningright now yeah, it's kind of
incredible I have those momentsas a dp on set when I'm you know
whether it's behind monitor,just off set standing with the
director and and you, you knowyou've captured something that
really works and that means thatall the pieces of the puzzle
have kind of come together froma collaborator standpoint and a
(14:40):
storytelling standpoint.
And it's one of those incrediblemoments where you're like, oh,
this is why I work in film youknow, and because I think
oftentimes you know 90 of it ispolitics and business, before we
get to the 10 art portion youknow for a lot of our
departments, and and to to havethat 10 be so much of like, so
golden and have weight to it,it's like such a wonderful
(15:03):
experience.
I, I would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I mean, and it is mainly politics and it it's like
such a wonderful experience.
I would agree with that.
I mean, and it is mainlypolitics and business which is
unfortunate.
And I, you know, because Iteach now and I try to teach no
business and no politics, butyou know that people will,
that's what people will run into.
But, yeah, and I think that youknow, if you're lucky enough to
(15:24):
have a career, that you you'veexperienced it.
Like I always say, you know the.
What you're, what you'restriving for, is just to catch a
glimpse of what that is,because as soon as you taste it,
that's, that's what you strivefor, and and you don't, you
don't get it almost ever.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
No, that's true.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
You're really just kind of busting through yeah and
so, but when you do taste itit's like oh, that's what it?
Is yes, and that's what Ialways want to strive for.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, you want to keep having it.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It's an addiction.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
That's why we're here we're gonna have a tough
industry.
Uh, you know, people alwaysused to say this to me, and now
I feel like I say it all thetime is like we could make money
doing a lot more things for alot easier way to make the money
, and we'll make a lot moremoney doing those things,
whether it's a corporate job orwhatever it is, you know.
And but we choose to be in thisindustry for a reason, and, and
so let that reason be thosegolden moments that we've become
(16:13):
addicted to um so, yuri seltzer, you said for circumcision, as
the director, what kind of andthis might not be singular to
this film, but what kind ofmaterials did you want from yuri
for the character in this film?
Because it's shot in aninteresting way, correct?
It's shot like first person.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yes, it's shot first person pov.
But this movie kind of turnedout it was um.
I mean, at first it was um.
You know, I literally wasplaying um, not literally, I was
playing, uh, somebody who wasthe best friend of the person of
the of the first first personPOV yes and, and that was a
(16:50):
pretty easy task, it wasn't you?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
know, it was not.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It was not difficult.
I kind of knew what he washeading towards and the only
thing that I was interested in Imean because, because the the
topic of the film is strange andinteresting I really just
needed to know from him what doyou need from me in order for
the movie to progress?
But what happened was that aswe started shooting, there was
(17:18):
another character that was kindof developing out of the stuff
that I was doing that he hadthought about already.
But I started to say I thinkthis would be really cool if we
kind of made this into just awhole other character and that
character became the devil.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And then he took excerpts of the Brothers
Karamazov and used that to kindof that's my favorite book.
Oh my God, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And that's what tonight, and use that to kind of
.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
That's my favorite book.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh my god, it's, it's , it was unbelievable and that's
what tonight is inspired by forsome of that character yeah
from which brother, all of it orthe dad?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
uh, the one, no, not the dad, the, the um, I forget
the brother.
I forget the brother.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Is it the religious one?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I think the religious one.
I think the religious one.
Yeah, I think.
So Is it?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yuri as well, anyway, but I'm going to start
fangirling because that's myfavorite book of all time.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And I actually read it.
I read it while we wereshooting, because I never read
the books, but I was like I gotto fucking read this book.
Oh, my God, and that's I got toread this book quickly, which
I've done before.
I was in Europe once shooting aTV series, and I had an
audition for Anna Karenina backin London.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yes, and I read Anna Karenina.
I was like I got to read thisbook.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
It's crazy.
I didn't get it.
But then what happened was thatthe voiceover that he used
while we shot it was done bythis guy, and I saw a version of
the movie that he used thatvoiceover and I said I think you
need somebody that has a lotmore at stake and invested in in
(18:52):
the voice, and I, I thinkyou're lacking.
You know, that was my feelingand I said why don't you use me?
And so I ended up doing thevoiceover.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Oh, wow, so you're the best friend.
I'm the first person.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
POV.
Yes, I'm the best friend andI'm the devil.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So it's all weird, so my involvement in it became
kind of more as we talked.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It's a one-man show over there, yeah it became kind
of a one-man show.
But not really yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But fun, but really fun, holy shit, and really
interesting to do.
So the devil, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
You know the thing, whenever I think about the devil
, the most moving parts for thatin art for me and this is
personal is the seven layers ofhell.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And, like the depth of that existence, dante's
Inferno For Brothers Karamazov,which I'm just amazed that I'm
so excited to link it tonight,because the reason I read
Brothers Karamazov was when Iwas getting into film.
I was obsessed with TerrenceMalick.
You know everyone can rolltheir eyes at that, because I
think everyone is.
But you know everyone can rolltheir eyes at that because I
think everyone is.
But you know, and I I watchedTree of Life.
I was 15 and I was like this isincredible.
(20:02):
I didn't know movies could bemade this way, you know, in this
kind of format, with thevoiceover, with the, the play on
nature versus.
You know all these, um, allthese dichotomies.
And I read the BrothersKaramazov because Malick said he
was inspired by BrothersKaramazov to make Tree of Life
really and each brother in Treeof life represents one of the
ways of life that josh wroteabout and yep and the
(20:22):
relationship between father andinfluence oh my god yeah, and
all of it is written um in the,in the template of what that
structure of family looks like.
Um, you know, and, anddifferent content, but still,
and so I read that book to makemore sense of tree of life for
me, to dig deeper, because hetaught philosophy at MIT and all
(20:43):
this and whatever, I'm goinginto my Malick deep dive.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Terrence Malick taught philosophy at MIT.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
MIT and Harvard.
Yeah, I mean, let's fact checkit.
But yes, I'm pretty sure, yeah,and he.
And so when you say, brotherKaramazov, I can only imagine
the amount of material you hadto inform yourself of for the
Devil.
Because, yeah, what is thatprocess?
I've never dove into this partof it, but what is that process
like?
To have a material that'swritten that is not the script,
(21:10):
and what parts you areelectively taking for the
character?
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well, I mean in relationship to this movie, it
was a general taking.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Cool, cool.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Because I would have spent way too.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I wouldn't have had time to really kind of like.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, but it that is actually always a dilemma.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
How much you're taking from from from from
resource yeah, and and, and howmuch you're bringing like.
I'm, I mean, it's a I no longerfight about for myself, because
I actually I think I've, I'vedone it enough where.
Oh, that's enough and I'm good.
Or that is just usefulinformation that is in, it's
(21:49):
just, it's inside of me and itwill come out simply because
it's inside of me.
And and it's, and accepting thatand kind of letting that kind
of like in me, then that's that,I think, is really the most
important part of that.
Yes, unless I really wanted tolike take a phrase, a physical
thing, that that somebody does.
(22:09):
But usually I'm not quite likethat.
I'm usually kind of like it'sthe essence that that's
happening for me, so that that'salways kind of an issue.
But but I think for that.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
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(22:41):
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Speaker 1 (22:51):
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Speaker 3 (23:13):
It really became about the struggle between faith
and no faith and trying towhich is that book?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, and that's also the Tree of Life thing.
Exactly that's why I dove intoit, because it's the dichotomy
that people are wrestling withinside of these characters and
humans Absolutely.
Which makes us relate to themmore, absolutely.
So it's so interesting.
Yeah, exactly, wow.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And for me I mean, you know, playing it was
actually it ends up being evenmore interesting because I'm
playing the other guy yes, umbut I, but I think, even while
I'm playing, when I when we shot, like you know, this, this
devil bit, you know I need tomake him human, I need to make
him totally three-dimensional.
For sure, and because that'sjust who I am, it's like I can't
I can't just be yeah, the devil, yeah, what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
what does that mean exactly?
It's been done, personified inso many different ways.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I would never, ever, ever.
I mean, even what I do isprobably like.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
You're like I have to be my devil.
Yeah, my version of what I'veinterpreted as the devil,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, yeah, so that's basically I mean.
So resource is a huge thing,but you have to know when.
And oftentimes resource is.
You know, there's a devil in me, and so it's really about me
trying to find out, well, whatdo I want in this scene and what
(24:27):
you know, because it's not thatdifficult to figure out when
you know, and so.
So for me it's always about youknow, investigating my personal
connection to the material, andhopefully the resource is not
becoming a distraction where I'mjust like I'm just focused on
the resource and because thenyou get lost and you're not,
you're not really doing what'son the page, you're doing
(24:50):
something that's not on the page, and I mean that's even like
for like for shakespeare youknow it's everything is really
in the text yes and so you don'treally have to do that much
research, but you do sometimesbecause you need.
Well, what does this word mean?
What does the sentence mean?
What is this in context of youknow, but at the same time, this
seems pretty explanatory.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
It's not it's not that difficult to understand
yeah, what I'm finding reallyinteresting through my journey
of kind of so you know,historically dps are involved
with actors, but not on, ofcourse, on the level of you know
some other department heads andand with CFA.
What I've been learning throughmy journey selfishly, um is is
how actors work and you knowwhat struggles they're going
(25:32):
through and how different actorsinterpret different texts.
And, and what I found the mostinteresting thing in the world
is um is you're kind of doingyour it's a disadvantage or a
deficit to like the script orthe work If you're just reading
the words off the page, meaninglike you're interpreting it
based off someone else'sreferences only, or someone
else's text, or like you'rereading a book and you're like,
(25:52):
well, it has to be exactly likethis book.
The beauty comes from informingyour own life and life
experience as you, as your actor, you know, into the work itself
.
I think crew side actors wedon't we love but we don't
understand.
Sometimes, right, we see it aslike, well, there's probably
only one way the director wantedthis, and then you realize that
(26:13):
the actor is the one that isblossoming the character, taking
it from the director and makingit its own thing, and that's
why I I tell so many actors I'mlike you shouldn't feel upset if
you didn't get that role.
It just meant that that rolewasn't the thing you needed at
that moment.
You know it's like and I thinkit's okay to not get things it
doesn't mean you didn't do agood job.
(26:33):
It just means they were lookingfor something else, and that's
okay that it wasn't you that wasthat thing.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I mean, you know, I mean we're all, we're all really
important and self-important.
Yeah, but it does become.
You know, you really do have tocome to some at some point.
You have to understand that youhave one.
You have no control.
Yes, the only thing that youcan do as an actor is walk in
and do the best you you can do,correct, and that's, and that's
it.
It's like I mean, and you walkaway.
(27:02):
I mean I say that, saying it,but I mean I never walk away.
I mean you feel rejected andyou feel horrible, but I think
the trick is well, what can I dobetter?
Do I need to do anything better?
But then you talk about I mean,we talked about this earlier.
It's like then you think aboutbalance of life.
And balance of life is reallywalking away from an audition
and, knowing you know I'm hungry.
(27:24):
I need to get something to eat.
I need to see my mother.
Yeah, I need to call my brother.
I need to see my girlfriend.
I need to see my boyfriend.
Whatever it's like, I need towalk, I need to.
Just I need to get rid of this.
I need to shed what justhappened, and shedding is a huge
thing.
I mean that's interesting yeah,I mean one.
If you've had time to work on it, you've worked on it.
(27:45):
Let's say you've worked on itfor a week.
I mean it becomes part of you.
It's like you're.
You've become that character.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
You're carrying it with you, you're sleeping with
it.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, so you know, part of, I think, living a
balanced life is actuallyaccepting that you're going to
walk away with residual of thecharacter and that that will
live for a few more days, andthat's okay too, because that's
actually, you know, you're,that's part of the artistic
conception, and so you gavebirth to something and now you
have afterbirth and that'sthat's okay, and so you know,
(28:16):
and but at the same time, whenthat starts to die out, you
start to move forward in anotherdirection and find something
else to do.
And oftentimes, I think youknow, balance of life which I've
I've struggled with quite a lotis having other things in your
life that are, that do meansomething to you.
It sounds so cliche, but it'slike whether it be cooking or or
(28:37):
or whether it be, you know,raising bees or whether it be,
or whether it's living in ahouse and cleaning a house, or
whether it's reading books orwatching TV, or or seeing people
playing cards or whatever it isthat takes you away, or if you
have a day job that, like youknow, I think often helps, like
you know, because you get totalk to other people that are it
(28:57):
separates you.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
It separates you, gives you life experience to
inform characters you will playin the future.
Yes, yes, or just your work.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
It will always inform you.
Yes, everything you liveinforms what you do.
I mean, I'm a huge proponentthat you know everything I do.
Everything has to do withacting.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Oh nice, I'm the same for like just art in general in
my life.
Like I'm like when I wasyounger I traveled a lot and
every single thing I saw or didI now feel why I am the person I
am and how it informs, when I'mlooking through a lens why I'm
shooting it this way yeah or whyI want you know that extra inch
on the left side of frame to becut.
Like you know, it's it.
Everything informs thatdecision making process, so I
love that.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, I mean, I totally I believe that and I,
living up in the country, nowit's like I have, I build things
and I do think lots of stuffaround the house and I'm you
know we have chickens and wehave bees and we have a dog and
we have a lawn, and you know wehave, you know we cut wood and
you know I built a kiln houseand I'm building, I'm renovating
a barn and but everything.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Dream life, but everything has to do with acting
.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yes, Like my entire experience has to do with you
know how, then I willcommunicate what it is that I'm
living.
I you know, and I often think,like social media kind of
deteriorates or disintegrates orkind of just takes away from
that experience, because you'renot necessarily living the
experience, you're living it toshare it.
I want to live it, to absorb it, to then share it.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, you're living it to share it.
I want to live it to absorb itto then share it.
Yeah, and I mean, for thosethat are technical, that are
listening, it is also likeeverything you listed can be
broken down to different skillsets, like whether it be
physicality or the emotionalresonance you have with certain
activities, or like watching theway bees do their dance before
they enter or the way you'reharvesting honey, or the
hexagonal shapes they're makingand the integrity of those
structures.
Like all of it informs probablythings that you can take on
(30:47):
maybe like a, like a minutia,like level and interpret it into
something much bigger to scalewhen you need it Absolutely.
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I mean Anna, my wife, I mean she's like that's what
she does.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
She absorbs it and puts it out there.
Yeah so it out there like yeah,um, I, I think that it's um.
I also just think that foractors, because you do, you talk
about the technical side a lotyeah I mean when I went to.
I went to college which Ididn't go first for, for acting.
I ended up acting, but the thecollege I went to, one of the
greatest things that that theytaught was that you, as a as a
(31:21):
theater artist, you learnedevery single department yes,
I've heard this multiple timesand so.
So when I came out the firsttime, I was on a film set.
I'm interested in costumes, I'minterested in grips, I'm
interested in gaffers, I'minterested in lighting, I'm
interested in ACs, I'minterested in everybody in craft
services.
Everybody's an equal to me.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
And everybody has an opinion which I'm actually
interested in listening to.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yes, like nobody's, nobody is like you know the
hierarchy, that there's nohierarchy to me, yeah and so I
mean there is yes, but there hasto be an order for it to work,
for it to work yeah, buteverybody is.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
you know, everybody has a job to do and, and to me,
my job is to actually understand, because my job will be better,
yeah, if I understand everybodyelse's yes.
One, that I don't get in theway.
Two, that I could performbetter because I know.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
The context, I know the context.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
I know that a guy for us to put something up that
will hit me in a certain way.
I know there's a dolly man or agirl, whatever that's moving,
something that I need to beinvolved with.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, pacing, you have to match their pacing.
Match their pacing.
Yeah, lens swap happens.
Where do I move within my frame?
Exactly, exactly, yeah,everything, yes, everything yes.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
And it just behooves me to understand all of that
even more.
And I actually ask the moreoff-camera stuff I do, the learn
about camera yeah because, youknow, I'm sitting right next to
a camera.
Totally, I'm looking at allthese buttons.
I'm like what?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
and you're seeing what the changes have to like.
You just hear a lens swap.
Normally if you're in front ofthe camera, you hear okay, going
in 35, you're 35 being called.
But if you're off cameralooking at what has to happen in
that workflow, you know theamount of consistency and stop,
um, you know the changing of,like, the depth of field and how
the proximity to the actor andwhat we're seeing now for
context versus what we sawbefore, what's magnified, what's
(33:07):
not it's it's a reallyinteresting way to inform
yourself, if you can kind of seethat Right, and it definitely
informs your work.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I think so, and also I also think it creates respect.
Yeah, and I and I think you knowif you want to be respected on
set and I think.
But I also just wanted to say,though, that because I've worked
with tons of DPs, but, like thebest DPs I've worked with, tell
me what's being seen and howit's being seen and how I can
(33:35):
fit into a frame or use a lightin a way that will only create
more shadow, and that's whywe're putting it there right,
like it has a purpose so it'slike my biggest job on set as a
dp is is to inform people of thecontext, of why we're doing
something, because then they caninform their decision making
around that right, like it goesdown to, like my crew, right,
(33:56):
I'll go to the gaffer and I'llsay what we want to do is this.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I don't say just put that light up, right, because
then if that light doesn't workor for some reason they can't
find it, they know what elsethey can do in order to get that
emotion we want out of the shot.
And I think it goes for actorstoo, like when, when I work with
actors, I try and inform themon a crazy amount of information
but enough to give them contextfor, like, you know, we're on,
we're on a 35.
So that means, and we're fivefeet away, you know we're, we're
(34:21):
going to be on like a MCU, andI'm excited because this is the
shot where this happens, andblah, blah, blah.
And they know this.
But then they're like, oh,interesting, so if I move here,
I'm going to be out.
I'm like, yeah, and they'relike, okay, cool, if I, like I'm
doing that back and forth, Iwas doing in the wide, is it
going to be, you know, am Ithink those fun technical
(34:44):
decisions?
As an actor, I always say topeople I'm like the CFA
methodology of like knowing thepractical, technical and
creative is like you can choosenot to use that right.
Like I'm not forcing people tosit there and understand the
technical and, you know, fornewer actors who potentially
would be overwhelmed emotionally, I'm just like inform yourself,
like read the book of technical, have it in the back of your
(35:08):
brain, use it if you want it,but if it's too much for this,
we'll adapt with you.
Of course, you know, becausewe're there to support you at
the end of the day.
And so I think when you'retalking about how, how much you
you know from a respectstandpoint, but how much you get
into it and talk to everyone onset, it definitely changes the
way that you're interacting withthe camera because you don't
have the space that you normallywould on theater.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I agree with you.
I think I actually like I thinkI pay attention to DPs and
assistant camera people more sobecause I imagine myself, you
know, one day, oh, I'm going tobe a DP, Right and so and I look
at how they look at things,because DPs usually look at
things like they're kind of likestaring out into the open.
Their eyes are usually likelaser focused.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I apologize actors all the time because I'm like
I'm staring kind of through youand I'm sorry because they're
like what yeah?
What do I?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
need.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I'm like no, I'm just looking at the light on your
note.
You're good like yeah, yes, butI love that look.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
It's like it's a really cool look.
It is so it's like I'm gonna belike that one day.
And and and also I mean becauseI, you know, back in the day,
when, when, when, cameramen usedto use, you know, use the
handles.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yes, the wheels.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
And that was really, you know, like.
You just felt like, oh, I wantto be like that.
It's like I want to act, shootand light my entire film Right,
and you know that will neverhappen, but but it's like, I
imagine myself to be like that.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, I can see it, and what?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
is a little light meter.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know which to be like that, yeah, I, I can see it
and, um, with a little lightmeter I know which is like just
honestly the best tool in theworld.
But it is funny because when II love watching dps be portrayed
in films like a nope, when, uh,when, like the dps found and he
brings his film camera outbecause it does it's not
electronic, so it doesn't shutdown he's wearing like his
little scarf and he's like Ineed this over you know, and it
is funny because we are seen aslike the high demand people who
have to make the shot perfectyou know, and uh.
(36:47):
and then there's that, thatother film that's one of my
favorites.
I'll remember it and if youhaven't seen it, I'm going to
recommend it.
I'll put it in the description,if I remember, but it's with um
.
It's with, uh, steve Buscemiand he's young and um New York
film, uh it's about film, 16millimeter film and yeah and
Catherine uh.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Keener.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Keener is in it, and it's all about the making of a
film and the DP is once againridiculous.
Yes, I totally, but it's soreal yeah, I love it anyway, but
um, but yeah, the DPperspective on set is hilarious
my first commercial was as a DP,was it?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
yeah, it was like I they.
It was the very firstcommercial I did for a Hyundai.
You can't see, I'm pretty, I'msure you can't see.
This was like literally.
This was 35 years ago Longer.
I booked the commercial ThoughtI'd never book a commercial,
went on set and it was this likereally famous commercial
director and he told me get upon the dolly and look through
(37:39):
the lens and then come out andlook outside.
And I did just that.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
It took literally 45 minutes to shoot yeah, right,
and I was done, yeah, and I madea ton of money commercials.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
We love them yeah, I made like 50 grand sometimes I'm
like, should I just make acommercial?
You know, as if it was thateasy, but it's like it's, it's
insane it's insane.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, um, now I know we have to wrap things up the
next seven to ten minutes, so Ijust want to get into.
What are the things you notice?
You've been in the industry yousaid 40 years, right, what are
the things you do notice fromthe technical that you require
just from being on set so much?
Like what are the things you'reasking of directors, ADs or DPs
, or you know the gaffer aroundyour AC?
Like, what are?
What are those conversationslook like for you?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I, you know, I mean I have a lot of curiosity, so
it's like to me it's a.
I mean I have curiosity aboutsomeone's life and I'm
interested in someone's becauseI'm usually looking at people
and I'm always that's.
I mean, this is just me and I,you know, I'm always interested
in where people come from andhow they kind of came to this
(38:43):
particular job and what they're,you know, because usually a
gaffer is on their way tobecoming a DP Right and so so
that's, I'm interested in thatjourney and I'm like that that's
.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
You know, is this what you're talking about, or
are you talking about somethinglike kind of Anything you want
to talk about, I, yeah, you cantalk about from like a life
experience point, or like whatyou're talking about, like from
a technical.
Are you asking when you're infront of the camera, like lens?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
whatever you want but usually I'm asking.
I'm asking because yeah I'mthinking about making a movie
yes and and, but I haven't madea movie right, but I'm.
I always think about making it,yeah, and so so I'm always
looking for information thatwill help me kind of.
You know, inform, inform, youknow when I need to, when I need
to do it.
But I'm also interested in andI mean this is twofold, because
(39:25):
I think that it's it is mainlyabout respect and, um, because I
ask people questions, to reallykind of include people in my
process, cause usually it's likeyou know the actors, like you
know there and we're there andwe don't want to, you know,
disturb the actor.
But I think that I'm usuallylooking for people to help me
(39:47):
feel comfortable in thepragmatic reality of the set,
not in my reality of what youknow, because I kind of know
what my reality is, but I wantto feel comfortable where I want
to know that I'm in a safebubble.
And so so my questions becomeabout what is that doing?
(40:07):
How is that affecting?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
me Well, you're creating that safe space because
you are becoming familiar witheverything around you.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, I hope so, I hope so that is definitely, that
is definitely the goal, and Ilove being inclusive.
I think it's really importantfor everybody to be, you know,
to be inclusive and inclusiveand and to make sure that
everybody feels how I imagine anentire set should be which I
think is like a familycollaborative let's talk about
that balance for a second.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I think a lot of people struggle when they live
in, like you know, the largecities for film.
Um, because it feels like youconstantly are not doing enough
or you constantly have to bedoing something.
And I know I struggle with that.
My therapist recently told methat I need to take 20 minutes a
day where I'm not.
I'm so productive so I'm to notbe productive and just stare
not journal, cause that'sproductive to just like
literally stare and like look atsomething or like be outside.
(40:55):
You know, and even through thatwork of 20 minutes three times
a week, I have like completelydifferent balance in my life.
But I wonder, like that balanceof you know you live in the
country now you have the hobbies, activities, you know you're
obviously have an incrediblepartnership Um, how do you
navigate?
You know you're close to NewYork that's where we are today
(41:16):
in Massachusetts how do younavigate that balance?
Like?
What does that schedule looklike?
What are the logistics aroundit?
How have you made it work foryou?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Um, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay, great, you just make it work.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, great it really doesn't work Um being an actor.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Because I'm not.
I mean, I think I've been in mylife.
I've had maybe five years outof a 40 year career where I've
I've known that two or threejobs ahead of what's what's
going on wow.
I just never know yeah and somy life is a constant like, oh
shit, I have to go yeah and um.
You know that's.
It's really difficult, um,especially as you get older and
(41:55):
you have more or you're takingcare of more yeah right and um,
I think fortunately, for I livewith somebody that really
understands, she's in the sameboat, kind of like, and you know
, so we play that together.
That's great, and I think,though, that a lot of it is
about the attempt at making yourcareer not part of your ego.
(42:22):
Right your career not part ofyour ego, right, and so your ego
is not involved in the and thisis probably the most difficult
part, because, as you, as youwork a lot, your identity is
based in what you've done, rightand so.
But if you're capable ofcreating your identity or owning
your identity separate fromyour career, yes then, um, then
(42:44):
your balance will come veryeasily and you'll be able to
kind of like, know, oh, that'sthat and this is this, and I
need to pay attention to thisand I don't need that right now.
And those decisions I mean, Ijust had to make a decision,
like a day ago, about, you know,something that came up that I
said no to.
It just wasn't worth it andreally based in the idea that
(43:06):
this throws the balance way offright, yes, for no reason.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yes, yeah, there's no plus side to it it's just if.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
But if my ego's in that, yeah, and my identity,
because I'm not working at themoment, then I go off balance
yeah, and I mean thatunpredictability of our industry
and the uncomfort associatedwith it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Discomfort, right discomfort is, I guess you
rather be have discomfort andnot know what's going to happen
in a world that you've builtaround yourself, that you love,
versus the unpredictability, butyou're miserable when you come
back home to it you know rightand so I think it's incredible
that, yeah, it may not workperfectly, but you're still
(43:42):
still like how many films thisyear?
Three, four films, five filmscoming out this year, this year.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
All the films that I've done this year, though,
that I've loved so much, isbecause they've been so unique.
Yes, and they've been, becauseI've made no money from them.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
But I've loved doing them yeah.
So, and that feels really good,yeah, feels really good.
You know, I mean I made moneydoing a TV series that comes out
in the fall, so it's like Imean not a lot, but it's like
but you can find that balance.
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully,yeah.
I love that, I think.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I think that's something we have to constantly
remind ourselves and like take adeep breath.
You know it's like because itjust feels like sometimes you
can get stuck in the weeds forsatisfied because you're doing
art that you love and maybeyou're not.
Like you know you have to pickout of the triangle of what you
want.
Um, that getting out of theweeds, feeling for half a second
, feels so good sometimes and Ilove that you can find that
(44:32):
balance.
I think a little bit too.
Um.
So I'm really excited to seecircumcision tonight and I can't
wait to have you um, hopefullywe can get you to la to do a
workshop soon, manifesting thisproposal to come through,
because I would love to do alonger talk, especially with
Haley, my actor side of things.
Scott, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Thank you so much.
I love what you guys are doingand I would love to participate
in any way that you think isappropriate.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
We're going to make it happen.
Awesome.
Thanks so much.
Bye.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
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conversations with industryleaders.
We unveil the magic behind thescenes, from candid discussions
about unique filmmakingprocesses to in-depth technical
exploration.
Join us in unraveling theintricacies of filmmaking, one
(00:26):
episode at a time.
It's more than just cameras andlenses we aim to inspire,
educate and empower as we peelback the curtain on the art of
effective storytelling.
Now on to the episode.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the CFA podcast.
I am one of your co-hosts here,but Haley is back in LA doing a
podcast herself today, which isfunny.
So I'm Indiana Underhill.
I'm here with Scott Cohen, anincredible actor who has a ton
of great work coming out, one ofwhich Circumcision I am seeing
tonight a narrative feature atthe Berkshires International
(01:00):
Film Festival and I'm onlocation today in Lenox,
massachusetts, as Scott has hisboot licked by the wonderful
Rose Budd, who is our white labhere today.
Hi Scott, how are you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I'm good, Indiana, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm so good and I'm really excited because we've
been planning this for a whilenow to get together, and I'm
excited that we're here inperson to do it, because that's
like that's the best.
I don't love the Zoom, I lovelike being in person and like
kind of riffing off each other,so this is great.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It's actually very interesting because I don't
think I've had an in-personaudition in probably six years.
Oh wow, way before COVID, andyou know I mean self-taping was
happening, you know before thatand you know and being offered
things, but I don't think I'veever walked into it.
I haven't walked into a castingoffice in probably six, seven
years and next week I have myfirst in-person audition in
(01:52):
seven years or whatever, and I'mreally psyched about it.
Like my adrenaline is alreadyup.
But then I started to realize,oh no, I'll also be in the room
with other actors that arecompeting for the same part and
it's like the whole idea ofgetting psyched out and all that
kind of stuff really kind ofplays on you and is it
interesting because you know I'mthe cinematographer side of
this business but is itinteresting to see kind of the
(02:14):
other actors like aestheticallyas well and like the variety of
different people going out for asimilar part?
Or do you ever get like psychedout because you have
doppelgangers in there?
Yeah, you have.
Well, you get psyched outbecause you have doppelgangers
and you get psyched out becausethere's diversity.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And you don't know what you know.
You try to figure out.
Well, you try to hang on towhat is singular to you, what is
unique to you, and if you losethat, you're just you're lost.
I mean you really kind of youhave to kind of rediscover your
way through that.
I mean, it is a I thinkauditioning is part of the job
(02:49):
is to walk in and be prepared toknow what you're doing.
But then the other part of thejob is to really walk in to a
room and understand that whatyou're bringing to the table is
unique, is singular, and that'swhat you've worked on, and not
to worry about everybody else inthe room.
It's an enormously difficultjob.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, and not to worry about everybody else in
the room.
It's an enormously difficultjob.
Yeah, this is interesting andI've always found this really
interesting about actors and howhard it is.
Is that idea of, like, you know, how long have you been in the
industry now?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Forty years.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, so for 40 years you know the self-tapes, the
auditions.
What has that been like?
Like when you used to go go in,when you were first starting
out.
What was, how did, how was thatmentality changed?
Was it more that I, you know,cared about how I looked against
the other actors, or what haschanged?
Or have you always beenauthentic to it?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well, I guess you know, authenticity changes, I
think.
I mean I imagine myself that Iwas authentic then.
I feel like I'm authentic now,but in a completely different
way, I think.
Then I mean I remember, youknow, living in New York and
walking up subway steps andactually having panic attacks
walking up subway steps and likebeing at the top of subway
(03:56):
steps and not being able tobreathe and like trying, why am
I not like, why am I having ahard time breathing?
You know, and it really was allabout nerves going into an
audition and I think that youknow.
Then I think the audition therewas such desperation at that
point where you're like you'rejust you're, so you just.
I mean I want to get a job nowtoo.
(04:16):
But like there's a differenceNow.
It's like I kind of think Ifeel more present and I'm also
more accepting of where I'm at,like if I'm, if I'm not where
they think I should be, that'snot really my fault.
It's like I've done whatever Ican do to prepare for, for the
audition and um, and that's whatI have.
It's like I mean, and so I have, I walk away a lot more settled
(04:40):
.
I mean then I used to walk awayfeeling so unsettled and would
often call a manager or an agentand say, can I get back in?
You know, can you get me backin?
And they would be like, can wejust find out what they think?
First I'm like I know theyhated it, I know it, I know it,
I know it.
And then usually, and usuallythe way it would work is if I
(05:01):
hated something, they loved it.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
If.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I loved something, they loved it.
If I loved something, theyhated it.
So why that happens, I have noidea, but that's that's usually
what happened, and I actuallythink that's part of like the
audition process too, becausethe audition process becomes
about, you know, the idea of umand an actor kind of knowing,
like the the the easier you feelin it.
I think there's a certain kindin an in-person audition they're
(05:25):
not feeling the adrenaline,they're not feeling like a, an
energy that's kind of comingacross and I think that's what
people feed off of.
I think people feed off of thatenergy Um.
So I think if you're, if youactually do have nerves, if you,
if you're kind of um, that's agood thing, that's something
that really should live in youand that you shouldn't be afraid
of.
But but a lot of times thepsychology becomes you know that
(05:46):
you, you messed it up, youdidn't, you didn't really do a
good job.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Wow, and for those actors that are kind of, maybe
they are getting invited totheir say, they started acting
during the pandemic when it wasall self-tapes and now they're
getting invited to their likefirst auditions in person and
things like that what are likethe tips that you have for them,
maybe from like a technical ora practical standpoint?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well, let me just say first that I've worked actually
with a, with a number of people, younger people that, um, that
were in school or conservatorywhatever, during the pandemic,
and I've noticed actually thattheir level of presence is so
much greater than what Iexperienced as a young actor, I
(06:28):
mean, and their comfort in frontof a camera is 10 times more, I
think, more than even what I amnow.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Because they're used to being on camera all the time.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Being on camera all the time, and I have, I think,
two ways.
I mean, I think you know, Ithink the self-tape concept is
both advantageous anddisadvantageous, but I, but I,
but I think that the people thatcame out of that are really,
they're much more well prepared,but at the same time, I think
that what happened, what youknow, what they one of the
(06:59):
things that I feel like isimportant to remember, like is
important to remember when youwalk into an in-person audition.
Now, I don't think those peopleare expecting what they would
see on a self-tape.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And if you're.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
If you're prepared, like you are, for a self-tape,
then I think you're going toyou're, you're not going to come
into the room having what Isaid before.
That energy that kind ofcreates that, that kind of um,
that vibe that's in a room thatallows people to kind of see who
you really are, because onself-tape you're, you're, you're
, you're so practiced, I mean,it's so perfect that it's um,
(07:32):
you know, I don't really thinkpeople are seeing who you are.
I think people are seeing a kindof a, a fan, an image, a
fantasy of what you may be orwhat you could be or what you
might be, but in, in in-person,uh, appointments, it's, it is.
There's no lighting no you know, the camera's not.
It's not a good angle, I wouldsay nine, ninety percent of the
time.
And you know, and it's barelyyou know, and and you can move.
(07:54):
I mean usually, and they, theyeither tell you to sit down and
stand up, but but um, anyway.
So my, my, the pointers, I wouldthink is are more about the
idea of what you expect from anin-person audition and what you
expected from a self tapeaudition, and there are two
different things, and I thinkbeing in the room is, um, allow
yourself to be excited by it,because that's a really good
(08:16):
thing.
So, if you think you're likeyou, if you think you're off,
you're probably not off, you'reprobably just doing like if you,
if you, if you uh, just doinglike if you, if you, if you, uh,
if you fuck up, it's okay,because you know, um, that's
what happens in a.
If you're shooting a movie, ifyou're shooting a tv show, right
, you fuck up a lot.
And I mean because I mean, tome it's all about rehearsal,
it's like it's.
It's why I, I would much ratherdo tv and film, because to me
(08:38):
the journey is the discovery, isthe most important part of it
the most fun and so it alwaysfeels like a rehearsal.
It never like if it's aperformance that feels like it's
dead, it's done so, um.
So I feel like if you could, ifyou could experience it as a
rehearsal, then you're, you'reon your way.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Wow, and so recently, you know, we have been at some
of the same film festivals, ourfilms have been sharing some
film festival posters.
Which is really cool is, yeah,and I think I'm noticing I'm
sure it's happened in the pasttoo with us, but I've noticed it
more now because we've beenwe've been in the works of
getting together and talking.
When we've been here atberkshires and recently had a
film at the beverly hills filmfestival, I've been noticing a
(09:16):
lot of the the press around somemovies that you've been doing.
And then here, you know, youhave circumcision premiering
tonight at 8.30.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You say that title so quickly.
Oh yeah, trippingly off thetongue.
Yeah, circumcision.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Circumcision tonight at 8.30.
Yeah, folks, there's nothingcrazy about that, it's true.
I noticed that, you know, thesefilms feel they feel like
different, really unique,one-of-a-kind characters, and I
wonder what it's like to workwith one of a kind characters.
But I also think it's thewriters and directors that are
(09:49):
writing them that are alsoprobably pretty unique
themselves.
What is it like to work with,um, with different directors, I
mean, and maybe some of themnewer and some of them, you know
, have been in the industry awhile.
But how does that, as an actor,work for you, working with
different directors?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
as an actor, work for you, working with different
directors?
Well, um, I used to feel like,um, without putting my foot in
my mouth, I used to feel like,if I wasn't working, a director
that was smarter than me then I,I'm not really that interested.
Right, I've come to the placewhere I think I understand that
you know it's not very helpfulto be that arrogant and people,
most people, are smarter than me.
(10:23):
I don't know, I don't know, butI think that it's.
I feel like the actor at thisstage of my career, that the
actor is truly a vessel of thedirector's vision and it is my
job to really make what they seecome to life.
And I work really hard atmaking that happen and
(10:49):
oftentimes I think I go beyondwhat they even think, that
they're kind of imagining whichI love about what I do, because
I feel like that's the way Iwork, it's like it's the way I
imagine things, it's like I it'sthe way I imagine things, it's
the way it's like I takeeverything very personally.
So if, if someone asks me to doa part, I'm going to really kind
(11:09):
of investigate what it means tome and and and try to
communicate whatever that is onscreen and but I often find that
you know a director that guidesme in a way that surprises me
is really really fun, Wow.
And because if I could keepopen to that and kind of
(11:32):
recognize that, oh, I'm not theonly one thinking on this set.
It's like there's somebody elsewho's thinking on the set and
they.
They wrote it, they directed it.
They know exactly what theywant to do with it.
Directed it, they know exactlywhat they want to do with it
then.
Then I really just need to bekind of an open book and and and
and, really kind of open myheart rip open my skin and allow
them to come in, and and youknow, I mean sometimes you don't
(11:54):
get anything, but other timesyou get quite a lot.
I mean, with this movie,circumcision, I'm working with
the director, yuri Zeltser, whois, I think, brilliant and I
think that he has, you know,he's brilliant because he feels
like he's not that he feels, buthe's attempting to.
He has image in his head ofwhat a movie looks like, and so
(12:15):
he talks about that and that'show he directs, and so I'm
interested in molding mycharacter in relationship to
what he's kind of trying tocreate.
Other times it's.
I love directors that just letme go and trust that I have the
ability to recognize what acharacter is, recognize what the
(12:39):
scene does, recognize how my,what my voice does in the film
itself, and and just lets me goand and because if somebody lets
me do that, they usually haveto pull me back because I'll do
something bigger than what isneeded.
But but that's okay too, andand that's I'm into that, um,
but in the end I find it it isthe most interesting thing to me
(13:04):
to collaborate with anotherperson to make a film, and it is
, um, I find it, uh, it'sthrilling, it's, um, it's
inspiring, it's uh, it'sinteresting.
It's what makes me um, I willdo a shitload of research
because someone else is tellingme what they think and what they
(13:27):
, how they think about something.
So I adore it.
I mean, I mean, it's one of thereasons that I, that I'm in this
, it actually started, I think.
I mean, I have experiences way,way, way back, but I did a
short with a short that my wife,anastasia Trena, wrote, and she
didn't direct the short, butthis we did this maybe 30 years
(13:48):
ago and I remember I was doingthe scene, I was really
struggling and she whispered inmy ear something that had to do
with my motivation in the sceneand it literally was like a
sentence and it was like a shotin my brain and it just like it
(14:10):
pushed me, like it just made mego to another level, and so like
that to me, yeah is in thatmoment, and it's rare that it
happens.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
But in that moment it felt like, oh, I'm creating art
, like that's what's happeningright now yeah, it's kind of
incredible I have those momentsas a dp on set when I'm you know
whether it's behind monitor,just off set standing with the
director and and you, you knowyou've captured something that
really works and that means thatall the pieces of the puzzle
have kind of come together froma collaborator standpoint and a
(14:40):
storytelling standpoint.
And it's one of those incrediblemoments where you're like, oh,
this is why I work in film youknow, and because I think
oftentimes you know 90 of it ispolitics and business, before we
get to the 10 art portion youknow for a lot of our
departments, and and to to havethat 10 be so much of like, so
golden and have weight to it,it's like such a wonderful
(15:03):
experience.
I, I would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I mean, and it is mainly politics and it it's like
such a wonderful experience.
I would agree with that.
I mean, and it is mainlypolitics and business which is
unfortunate.
And I, you know, because Iteach now and I try to teach no
business and no politics, butyou know that people will,
that's what people will run into.
But, yeah, and I think that youknow, if you're lucky enough to
(15:24):
have a career, that you you'veexperienced it.
Like I always say, you know the.
What you're, what you'restriving for, is just to catch a
glimpse of what that is,because as soon as you taste it,
that's, that's what you strivefor, and and you don't, you
don't get it almost ever.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
No, that's true.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
You're really just kind of busting through yeah and
so, but when you do taste itit's like oh, that's what it?
Is yes, and that's what Ialways want to strive for.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, you want to keep having it.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It's an addiction.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
That's why we're here we're gonna have a tough
industry.
Uh, you know, people alwaysused to say this to me, and now
I feel like I say it all thetime is like we could make money
doing a lot more things for alot easier way to make the money
, and we'll make a lot moremoney doing those things,
whether it's a corporate job orwhatever it is, you know.
And but we choose to be in thisindustry for a reason, and, and
so let that reason be thosegolden moments that we've become
(16:13):
addicted to um so, yuri seltzer, you said for circumcision, as
the director, what kind of andthis might not be singular to
this film, but what kind ofmaterials did you want from yuri
for the character in this film?
Because it's shot in aninteresting way, correct?
It's shot like first person.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yes, it's shot first person pov.
But this movie kind of turnedout it was um.
I mean, at first it was um.
You know, I literally wasplaying um, not literally, I was
playing, uh, somebody who wasthe best friend of the person of
the of the first first personPOV yes and, and that was a
(16:50):
pretty easy task, it wasn't you?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
know, it was not.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It was not difficult.
I kind of knew what he washeading towards and the only
thing that I was interested in Imean because, because the the
topic of the film is strange andinteresting I really just
needed to know from him what doyou need from me in order for
the movie to progress?
But what happened was that aswe started shooting, there was
(17:18):
another character that was kindof developing out of the stuff
that I was doing that he hadthought about already.
But I started to say I thinkthis would be really cool if we
kind of made this into just awhole other character and that
character became the devil.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And then he took excerpts of the Brothers
Karamazov and used that to kindof that's my favorite book.
Oh my God, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And that's what tonight, and use that to kind of
.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
That's my favorite book.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh my god, it's, it's , it was unbelievable and that's
what tonight is inspired by forsome of that character yeah
from which brother, all of it orthe dad?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
uh, the one, no, not the dad, the, the um, I forget
the brother.
I forget the brother.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Is it the religious one?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I think the religious one.
I think the religious one.
Yeah, I think.
So Is it?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yuri as well, anyway, but I'm going to start
fangirling because that's myfavorite book of all time.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And I actually read it.
I read it while we wereshooting, because I never read
the books, but I was like I gotto fucking read this book.
Oh, my God, and that's I got toread this book quickly, which
I've done before.
I was in Europe once shooting aTV series, and I had an
audition for Anna Karenina backin London.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yes, and I read Anna Karenina.
I was like I got to read thisbook.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
It's crazy.
I didn't get it.
But then what happened was thatthe voiceover that he used
while we shot it was done bythis guy, and I saw a version of
the movie that he used thatvoiceover and I said I think you
need somebody that has a lotmore at stake and invested in in
(18:52):
the voice, and I, I thinkyou're lacking.
You know, that was my feelingand I said why don't you use me?
And so I ended up doing thevoiceover.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Oh, wow, so you're the best friend.
I'm the first person.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
POV.
Yes, I'm the best friend andI'm the devil.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So it's all weird, so my involvement in it became
kind of more as we talked.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It's a one-man show over there, yeah it became kind
of a one-man show.
But not really yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But fun, but really fun, holy shit, and really
interesting to do.
So the devil, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
You know the thing, whenever I think about the devil
, the most moving parts for thatin art for me and this is
personal is the seven layers ofhell.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And, like the depth of that existence, dante's
Inferno For Brothers Karamazov,which I'm just amazed that I'm
so excited to link it tonight,because the reason I read
Brothers Karamazov was when Iwas getting into film.
I was obsessed with TerrenceMalick.
You know everyone can rolltheir eyes at that, because I
think everyone is.
But you know everyone can rolltheir eyes at that because I
think everyone is.
But you know, and I I watchedTree of Life.
I was 15 and I was like this isincredible.
(20:02):
I didn't know movies could bemade this way, you know, in this
kind of format, with thevoiceover, with the, the play on
nature versus.
You know all these, um, allthese dichotomies.
And I read the BrothersKaramazov because Malick said he
was inspired by BrothersKaramazov to make Tree of Life
really and each brother in Treeof life represents one of the
ways of life that josh wroteabout and yep and the
(20:22):
relationship between father andinfluence oh my god yeah, and
all of it is written um in the,in the template of what that
structure of family looks like.
Um, you know, and, anddifferent content, but still,
and so I read that book to makemore sense of tree of life for
me, to dig deeper, because hetaught philosophy at MIT and all
(20:43):
this and whatever, I'm goinginto my Malick deep dive.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Terrence Malick taught philosophy at MIT.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
MIT and Harvard.
Yeah, I mean, let's fact checkit.
But yes, I'm pretty sure, yeah,and he.
And so when you say, brotherKaramazov, I can only imagine
the amount of material you hadto inform yourself of for the
Devil.
Because, yeah, what is thatprocess?
I've never dove into this partof it, but what is that process
like?
To have a material that'swritten that is not the script,
(21:10):
and what parts you areelectively taking for the
character?
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well, I mean in relationship to this movie, it
was a general taking.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Cool, cool.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Because I would have spent way too.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I wouldn't have had time to really kind of like.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, but it that is actually always a dilemma.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
How much you're taking from from from from
resource yeah, and and, and howmuch you're bringing like.
I'm, I mean, it's a I no longerfight about for myself, because
I actually I think I've, I'vedone it enough where.
Oh, that's enough and I'm good.
Or that is just usefulinformation that is in, it's
(21:49):
just, it's inside of me and itwill come out simply because
it's inside of me.
And and it's, and accepting thatand kind of letting that kind
of like in me, then that's that,I think, is really the most
important part of that.
Yes, unless I really wanted tolike take a phrase, a physical
thing, that that somebody does.
(22:09):
But usually I'm not quite likethat.
I'm usually kind of like it'sthe essence that that's
happening for me, so that that'salways kind of an issue.
But but I think for that.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
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Speaker 3 (23:13):
It really became about the struggle between faith
and no faith and trying towhich is that book?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, and that's also the Tree of Life thing.
Exactly that's why I dove intoit, because it's the dichotomy
that people are wrestling withinside of these characters and
humans Absolutely.
Which makes us relate to themmore, absolutely.
So it's so interesting.
Yeah, exactly, wow.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And for me I mean, you know, playing it was
actually it ends up being evenmore interesting because I'm
playing the other guy yes, umbut I, but I think, even while
I'm playing, when I when we shot, like you know, this, this
devil bit, you know I need tomake him human, I need to make
him totally three-dimensional.
For sure, and because that'sjust who I am, it's like I can't
I can't just be yeah, the devil, yeah, what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
what does that mean exactly?
It's been done, personified inso many different ways.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I would never, ever, ever.
I mean, even what I do isprobably like.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
You're like I have to be my devil.
Yeah, my version of what I'veinterpreted as the devil,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, yeah, so that's basically I mean.
So resource is a huge thing,but you have to know when.
And oftentimes resource is.
You know, there's a devil in me, and so it's really about me
trying to find out, well, whatdo I want in this scene and what
(24:27):
you know, because it's not thatdifficult to figure out when
you know, and so.
So for me it's always about youknow, investigating my personal
connection to the material, andhopefully the resource is not
becoming a distraction where I'mjust like I'm just focused on
the resource and because thenyou get lost and you're not,
you're not really doing what'son the page, you're doing
(24:50):
something that's not on the page, and I mean that's even like
for like for shakespeare youknow it's everything is really
in the text yes and so you don'treally have to do that much
research, but you do sometimesbecause you need.
Well, what does this word mean?
What does the sentence mean?
What is this in context of youknow, but at the same time, this
seems pretty explanatory.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
It's not it's not that difficult to understand
yeah, what I'm finding reallyinteresting through my journey
of kind of so you know,historically dps are involved
with actors, but not on, ofcourse, on the level of you know
some other department heads andand with CFA.
What I've been learning throughmy journey selfishly, um is is
how actors work and you knowwhat struggles they're going
(25:32):
through and how different actorsinterpret different texts.
And, and what I found the mostinteresting thing in the world
is um is you're kind of doingyour it's a disadvantage or a
deficit to like the script orthe work If you're just reading
the words off the page, meaninglike you're interpreting it
based off someone else'sreferences only, or someone
else's text, or like you'rereading a book and you're like,
(25:52):
well, it has to be exactly likethis book.
The beauty comes from informingyour own life and life
experience as you, as your actor, you know, into the work itself
.
I think crew side actors wedon't we love but we don't
understand.
Sometimes, right, we see it aslike, well, there's probably
only one way the director wantedthis, and then you realize that
(26:13):
the actor is the one that isblossoming the character, taking
it from the director and makingit its own thing, and that's
why I I tell so many actors I'mlike you shouldn't feel upset if
you didn't get that role.
It just meant that that rolewasn't the thing you needed at
that moment.
You know it's like and I thinkit's okay to not get things it
doesn't mean you didn't do agood job.
(26:33):
It just means they were lookingfor something else, and that's
okay that it wasn't you that wasthat thing.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I mean, you know, I mean we're all, we're all really
important and self-important.
Yeah, but it does become.
You know, you really do have tocome to some at some point.
You have to understand that youhave one.
You have no control.
Yes, the only thing that youcan do as an actor is walk in
and do the best you you can do,correct, and that's, and that's
it.
It's like I mean, and you walkaway.
(27:02):
I mean I say that, saying it,but I mean I never walk away.
I mean you feel rejected andyou feel horrible, but I think
the trick is well, what can I dobetter?
Do I need to do anything better?
But then you talk about I mean,we talked about this earlier.
It's like then you think aboutbalance of life.
And balance of life is reallywalking away from an audition
and, knowing you know I'm hungry.
(27:24):
I need to get something to eat.
I need to see my mother.
Yeah, I need to call my brother.
I need to see my girlfriend.
I need to see my boyfriend.
Whatever it's like, I need towalk, I need to.
Just I need to get rid of this.
I need to shed what justhappened, and shedding is a huge
thing.
I mean that's interesting yeah,I mean one.
If you've had time to work on it, you've worked on it.
(27:45):
Let's say you've worked on itfor a week.
I mean it becomes part of you.
It's like you're.
You've become that character.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
You're carrying it with you, you're sleeping with
it.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, so you know, part of, I think, living a
balanced life is actuallyaccepting that you're going to
walk away with residual of thecharacter and that that will
live for a few more days, andthat's okay too, because that's
actually, you know, you're,that's part of the artistic
conception, and so you gavebirth to something and now you
have afterbirth and that'sthat's okay, and so you know,
(28:16):
and but at the same time, whenthat starts to die out, you
start to move forward in anotherdirection and find something
else to do.
And oftentimes, I think youknow, balance of life which I've
I've struggled with quite a lotis having other things in your
life that are, that do meansomething to you.
It sounds so cliche, but it'slike whether it be cooking or or
(28:37):
or whether it be, you know,raising bees or whether it be,
or whether it's living in ahouse and cleaning a house, or
whether it's reading books orwatching TV, or or seeing people
playing cards or whatever it isthat takes you away, or if you
have a day job that, like youknow, I think often helps, like
you know, because you get totalk to other people that are it
(28:57):
separates you.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
It separates you, gives you life experience to
inform characters you will playin the future.
Yes, yes, or just your work.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
It will always inform you.
Yes, everything you liveinforms what you do.
I mean, I'm a huge proponentthat you know everything I do.
Everything has to do withacting.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Oh nice, I'm the same for like just art in general in
my life.
Like I'm like when I wasyounger I traveled a lot and
every single thing I saw or didI now feel why I am the person I
am and how it informs, when I'mlooking through a lens why I'm
shooting it this way yeah or whyI want you know that extra inch
on the left side of frame to becut.
Like you know, it's it.
Everything informs thatdecision making process, so I
love that.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, I mean, I totally I believe that and I,
living up in the country, nowit's like I have, I build things
and I do think lots of stuffaround the house and I'm you
know we have chickens and wehave bees and we have a dog and
we have a lawn, and you know wehave, you know we cut wood and
you know I built a kiln houseand I'm building, I'm renovating
a barn and but everything.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Dream life, but everything has to do with acting
.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yes, Like my entire experience has to do with you
know how, then I willcommunicate what it is that I'm
living.
I you know, and I often think,like social media kind of
deteriorates or disintegrates orkind of just takes away from
that experience, because you'renot necessarily living the
experience, you're living it toshare it.
I want to live it, to absorb it, to then share it.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, you're living it to share it.
I want to live it to absorb itto then share it.
Yeah, and I mean, for thosethat are technical, that are
listening, it is also likeeverything you listed can be
broken down to different skillsets, like whether it be
physicality or the emotionalresonance you have with certain
activities, or like watching theway bees do their dance before
they enter or the way you'reharvesting honey, or the
hexagonal shapes they're makingand the integrity of those
structures.
Like all of it informs probablythings that you can take on
(30:47):
maybe like a, like a minutia,like level and interpret it into
something much bigger to scalewhen you need it Absolutely.
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I mean Anna, my wife, I mean she's like that's what
she does.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
She absorbs it and puts it out there.
Yeah so it out there like yeah,um, I, I think that it's um.
I also just think that foractors, because you do, you talk
about the technical side a lotyeah I mean when I went to.
I went to college which Ididn't go first for, for acting.
I ended up acting, but the thecollege I went to, one of the
greatest things that that theytaught was that you, as a as a
(31:21):
theater artist, you learnedevery single department yes,
I've heard this multiple timesand so.
So when I came out the firsttime, I was on a film set.
I'm interested in costumes, I'minterested in grips, I'm
interested in gaffers, I'minterested in lighting, I'm
interested in ACs, I'minterested in everybody in craft
services.
Everybody's an equal to me.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
And everybody has an opinion which I'm actually
interested in listening to.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yes, like nobody's, nobody is like you know the
hierarchy, that there's nohierarchy to me, yeah and so I
mean there is yes, but there hasto be an order for it to work,
for it to work yeah, buteverybody is.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
you know, everybody has a job to do and, and to me,
my job is to actually understand, because my job will be better,
yeah, if I understand everybodyelse's yes.
One, that I don't get in theway.
Two, that I could performbetter because I know.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
The context, I know the context.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
I know that a guy for us to put something up that
will hit me in a certain way.
I know there's a dolly man or agirl, whatever that's moving,
something that I need to beinvolved with.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, pacing, you have to match their pacing.
Match their pacing.
Yeah, lens swap happens.
Where do I move within my frame?
Exactly, exactly, yeah,everything, yes, everything yes.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
And it just behooves me to understand all of that
even more.
And I actually ask the moreoff-camera stuff I do, the learn
about camera yeah because, youknow, I'm sitting right next to
a camera.
Totally, I'm looking at allthese buttons.
I'm like what?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
and you're seeing what the changes have to like.
You just hear a lens swap.
Normally if you're in front ofthe camera, you hear okay, going
in 35, you're 35 being called.
But if you're off cameralooking at what has to happen in
that workflow, you know theamount of consistency and stop,
um, you know the changing of,like, the depth of field and how
the proximity to the actor andwhat we're seeing now for
context versus what we sawbefore, what's magnified, what's
(33:07):
not it's it's a reallyinteresting way to inform
yourself, if you can kind of seethat Right, and it definitely
informs your work.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I think so, and also I also think it creates respect.
Yeah, and I and I think you knowif you want to be respected on
set and I think.
But I also just wanted to say,though, that because I've worked
with tons of DPs, but, like thebest DPs I've worked with, tell
me what's being seen and howit's being seen and how I can
(33:35):
fit into a frame or use a lightin a way that will only create
more shadow, and that's whywe're putting it there right,
like it has a purpose so it'slike my biggest job on set as a
dp is is to inform people of thecontext, of why we're doing
something, because then they caninform their decision making
around that right, like it goesdown to, like my crew, right,
(33:56):
I'll go to the gaffer and I'llsay what we want to do is this.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I don't say just put that light up, right, because
then if that light doesn't workor for some reason they can't
find it, they know what elsethey can do in order to get that
emotion we want out of the shot.
And I think it goes for actorstoo, like when, when I work with
actors, I try and inform themon a crazy amount of information
but enough to give them contextfor, like, you know, we're on,
we're on a 35.
So that means, and we're fivefeet away, you know we're, we're
(34:21):
going to be on like a MCU, andI'm excited because this is the
shot where this happens, andblah, blah, blah.
And they know this.
But then they're like, oh,interesting, so if I move here,
I'm going to be out.
I'm like, yeah, and they'relike, okay, cool, if I, like I'm
doing that back and forth, Iwas doing in the wide, is it
going to be, you know, am Ithink those fun technical
(34:44):
decisions?
As an actor, I always say topeople I'm like the CFA
methodology of like knowing thepractical, technical and
creative is like you can choosenot to use that right.
Like I'm not forcing people tosit there and understand the
technical and, you know, fornewer actors who potentially
would be overwhelmed emotionally, I'm just like inform yourself,
like read the book of technical, have it in the back of your
(35:08):
brain, use it if you want it,but if it's too much for this,
we'll adapt with you.
Of course, you know, becausewe're there to support you at
the end of the day.
And so I think when you'retalking about how, how much you
you know from a respectstandpoint, but how much you get
into it and talk to everyone onset, it definitely changes the
way that you're interacting withthe camera because you don't
have the space that you normallywould on theater.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I agree with you.
I think I actually like I thinkI pay attention to DPs and
assistant camera people more sobecause I imagine myself, you
know, one day, oh, I'm going tobe a DP, Right and so and I look
at how they look at things,because DPs usually look at
things like they're kind of likestaring out into the open.
Their eyes are usually likelaser focused.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I apologize actors all the time because I'm like
I'm staring kind of through youand I'm sorry because they're
like what yeah?
What do I?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
need.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I'm like no, I'm just looking at the light on your
note.
You're good like yeah, yes, butI love that look.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
It's like it's a really cool look.
It is so it's like I'm gonna belike that one day.
And and and also I mean becauseI, you know, back in the day,
when, when, when, cameramen usedto use, you know, use the
handles.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yes, the wheels.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
And that was really, you know, like.
You just felt like, oh, I wantto be like that.
It's like I want to act, shootand light my entire film Right,
and you know that will neverhappen, but but it's like, I
imagine myself to be like that.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, I can see it, and what?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
is a little light meter.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know which to be like that, yeah, I, I can see it
and, um, with a little lightmeter I know which is like just
honestly the best tool in theworld.
But it is funny because when II love watching dps be portrayed
in films like a nope, when, uh,when, like the dps found and he
brings his film camera outbecause it does it's not
electronic, so it doesn't shutdown he's wearing like his
little scarf and he's like Ineed this over you know, and it
is funny because we are seen aslike the high demand people who
have to make the shot perfectyou know, and uh.
(36:47):
and then there's that, thatother film that's one of my
favorites.
I'll remember it and if youhaven't seen it, I'm going to
recommend it.
I'll put it in the description,if I remember, but it's with um
.
It's with, uh, steve Buscemiand he's young and um New York
film, uh it's about film, 16millimeter film and yeah and
Catherine uh.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Keener.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Keener is in it, and it's all about the making of a
film and the DP is once againridiculous.
Yes, I totally, but it's soreal yeah, I love it anyway, but
um, but yeah, the DPperspective on set is hilarious
my first commercial was as a DP,was it?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
yeah, it was like I they.
It was the very firstcommercial I did for a Hyundai.
You can't see, I'm pretty, I'msure you can't see.
This was like literally.
This was 35 years ago Longer.
I booked the commercial ThoughtI'd never book a commercial,
went on set and it was this likereally famous commercial
director and he told me get upon the dolly and look through
(37:39):
the lens and then come out andlook outside.
And I did just that.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
It took literally 45 minutes to shoot yeah, right,
and I was done, yeah, and I madea ton of money commercials.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
We love them yeah, I made like 50 grand sometimes I'm
like, should I just make acommercial?
You know, as if it was thateasy, but it's like it's, it's
insane it's insane.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, um, now I know we have to wrap things up the
next seven to ten minutes, so Ijust want to get into.
What are the things you notice?
You've been in the industry yousaid 40 years, right, what are
the things you do notice fromthe technical that you require
just from being on set so much?
Like what are the things you'reasking of directors, ADs or DPs
, or you know the gaffer aroundyour AC?
Like, what are?
What are those conversationslook like for you?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I, you know, I mean I have a lot of curiosity, so
it's like to me it's a.
I mean I have curiosity aboutsomeone's life and I'm
interested in someone's becauseI'm usually looking at people
and I'm always that's.
I mean, this is just me and I,you know, I'm always interested
in where people come from andhow they kind of came to this
(38:43):
particular job and what they're,you know, because usually a
gaffer is on their way tobecoming a DP Right and so so
that's, I'm interested in thatjourney and I'm like that that's
.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
You know, is this what you're talking about, or
are you talking about somethinglike kind of Anything you want
to talk about, I, yeah, you cantalk about from like a life
experience point, or like whatyou're talking about, like from
a technical.
Are you asking when you're infront of the camera, like lens?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
whatever you want but usually I'm asking.
I'm asking because yeah I'mthinking about making a movie
yes and and, but I haven't madea movie right, but I'm.
I always think about making it,yeah, and so so I'm always
looking for information thatwill help me kind of.
You know, inform, inform, youknow when I need to, when I need
to do it.
But I'm also interested in andI mean this is twofold, because
(39:25):
I think that it's it is mainlyabout respect and, um, because I
ask people questions, to reallykind of include people in my
process, cause usually it's likeyou know the actors, like you
know there and we're there andwe don't want to, you know,
disturb the actor.
But I think that I'm usuallylooking for people to help me
(39:47):
feel comfortable in thepragmatic reality of the set,
not in my reality of what youknow, because I kind of know
what my reality is, but I wantto feel comfortable where I want
to know that I'm in a safebubble.
And so so my questions becomeabout what is that doing?
(40:07):
How is that affecting?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
me Well, you're creating that safe space because
you are becoming familiar witheverything around you.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, I hope so, I hope so that is definitely, that
is definitely the goal, and Ilove being inclusive.
I think it's really importantfor everybody to be, you know,
to be inclusive and inclusiveand and to make sure that
everybody feels how I imagine anentire set should be which I
think is like a familycollaborative let's talk about
that balance for a second.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I think a lot of people struggle when they live
in, like you know, the largecities for film.
Um, because it feels like youconstantly are not doing enough
or you constantly have to bedoing something.
And I know I struggle with that.
My therapist recently told methat I need to take 20 minutes a
day where I'm not.
I'm so productive so I'm to notbe productive and just stare
not journal, cause that'sproductive to just like
literally stare and like look atsomething or like be outside.
(40:55):
You know, and even through thatwork of 20 minutes three times
a week, I have like completelydifferent balance in my life.
But I wonder, like that balanceof you know you live in the
country now you have the hobbies, activities, you know you're
obviously have an incrediblepartnership Um, how do you
navigate?
You know you're close to NewYork that's where we are today
(41:16):
in Massachusetts how do younavigate that balance?
Like?
What does that schedule looklike?
What are the logistics aroundit?
How have you made it work foryou?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Um, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay, great, you just make it work.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, great it really doesn't work Um being an actor.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Because I'm not.
I mean, I think I've been in mylife.
I've had maybe five years outof a 40 year career where I've
I've known that two or threejobs ahead of what's what's
going on wow.
I just never know yeah and somy life is a constant like, oh
shit, I have to go yeah and um.
You know that's.
It's really difficult, um,especially as you get older and
(41:55):
you have more or you're takingcare of more yeah right and um,
I think fortunately, for I livewith somebody that really
understands, she's in the sameboat, kind of like, and you know
, so we play that together.
That's great, and I think,though, that a lot of it is
about the attempt at making yourcareer not part of your ego.
(42:22):
Right your career not part ofyour ego, right, and so your ego
is not involved in the and thisis probably the most difficult
part, because, as you, as youwork a lot, your identity is
based in what you've done, rightand so.
But if you're capable ofcreating your identity or owning
your identity separate fromyour career, yes then, um, then
(42:44):
your balance will come veryeasily and you'll be able to
kind of like, know, oh, that'sthat and this is this, and I
need to pay attention to thisand I don't need that right now.
And those decisions I mean, Ijust had to make a decision,
like a day ago, about, you know,something that came up that I
said no to.
It just wasn't worth it andreally based in the idea that
(43:06):
this throws the balance way offright, yes, for no reason.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yes, yeah, there's no plus side to it it's just if.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
But if my ego's in that, yeah, and my identity,
because I'm not working at themoment, then I go off balance
yeah, and I mean thatunpredictability of our industry
and the uncomfort associatedwith it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Discomfort, right discomfort is, I guess you
rather be have discomfort andnot know what's going to happen
in a world that you've builtaround yourself, that you love,
versus the unpredictability, butyou're miserable when you come
back home to it you know rightand so I think it's incredible
that, yeah, it may not workperfectly, but you're still
(43:42):
still like how many films thisyear?
Three, four films, five filmscoming out this year, this year.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
All the films that I've done this year, though,
that I've loved so much, isbecause they've been so unique.
Yes, and they've been, becauseI've made no money from them.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
But I've loved doing them yeah.
So, and that feels really good,yeah, feels really good.
You know, I mean I made moneydoing a TV series that comes out
in the fall, so it's like Imean not a lot, but it's like
but you can find that balance.
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully,yeah.
I love that, I think.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I think that's something we have to constantly
remind ourselves and like take adeep breath.
You know it's like because itjust feels like sometimes you
can get stuck in the weeds forsatisfied because you're doing
art that you love and maybeyou're not.
Like you know you have to pickout of the triangle of what you
want.
Um, that getting out of theweeds, feeling for half a second
, feels so good sometimes and Ilove that you can find that
(44:32):
balance.
I think a little bit too.
Um.
So I'm really excited to seecircumcision tonight and I can't
wait to have you um, hopefullywe can get you to la to do a
workshop soon, manifesting thisproposal to come through,
because I would love to do alonger talk, especially with
Haley, my actor side of things.
Scott, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Thank you so much.
I love what you guys are doingand I would love to participate
in any way that you think isappropriate.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
We're going to make it happen.
Awesome.
Thanks so much.
Bye.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
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