Join us for a chat with Lee Pugsley, actor in the award-winning film "Audio Description," director Luke Salewski, and documentary filmmaker Virtic Brown as they discuss the art of audio description in filmmaking.
Discover how audio descriptions enhance viewing experiences, even in comedic scenes like the plastic sand in "Barbie." We explore the nuances and timing needed for effective audio descriptions and recognize audio describers like Liz Gutman and Tristan Snyder.
Virtic shares her experiences working within the disabled community, while Lee and Luke discuss the unique storytelling and impactful use of audio description in their film. Tune in for personal stories and the impact of community efforts in inclusive filmmaking.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know it doesn't make me nervous, actually,
because, number one, there'salways editing, so I'm always
like protected by that, you know.
Number two, just like being anactor, a director and producer
on projects.
I know the way that my mindthinks.
So if I know what I need toprepare, like my mind's
automatically going to go tothat.
(00:21):
And I mean even, like you know,I'll have conversations with
Vertice about the behind thescenes stuff and I'm like, oh,
do we have this in place?
Do we have this in place?
And Vertice is always like Lee,don't worry about this, just
focus on you being you this isthe cinematography for actors
podcast more than a podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
cinematography for actors is a vibrant community
devoted to bridging the gapbetween talent and crew.
Each week, our show offerstransparent, insightful
conversations with industryleaders.
We unveil the magic behind thescenes, from candid discussions
about unique filmmakingprocesses to in-depth technical
exploration.
Join us in unraveling theintricacies of filmmaking, one
(01:01):
episode at a time.
It's more than just cameras andlenses we aim to inspire,
educate and empower as we peelback the curtain on the art of
effective storytelling.
Now on to the episode.
Hi everybody.
Welcome to an episode of theCinematography for Actors
podcast.
I am your host, haley Royal,here with your co-host, indiana
Underhill.
We are seated here with LeighPugsley, luke Zelesky and
(01:25):
Vertice Emile Brown.
Yes, Okay amazing Welcome guys.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So excited to have you here.
We were really lucky to beinvited to the Easterseals
Disability Film Challenge Awardsand Leigh's film audio
description was a winner and weloved it and I'm handing it over
to Indiana Because I'm a realfan girl this movie.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I am really excited that we are here with you guys
today because immediately fromwatching congratulations, by the
way, on winning the best filmaward- Thank you so much what an
incredible accomplishment.
And I felt like there had to besome redemption there, because
while we were watching all theawards and you kept coming up, I
kept wanting to see the HotPocket scene and I just kept
(02:12):
wanting to see that.
I was like, oh, from the momentit came up as a teaser for one
of the awards you were going towin, you were nominated for, I
was like, oh, this looks so good.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
We laughed so hard.
Yes, the first time we saw thatHot Pocket pocket teaser, we
laughed so hard and it almostfelt inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
yeah, and so I'm really excited that you guys won
that award because it felt like, okay, we it's been teased so
many times I need to watch thisfilm and we finally got to watch
it.
And and vertice, obviouslyyou're doing a documentary on
lee that we're going to diveinto as well, um, but here at c
we talk a lot about thetechnical, practical and
creative aspects of filmmaking,so how we can be better
(02:48):
collaborators, and I think audiodescription is such a great
idea.
Lee, when you're like watchingthings with audio, you know,
when you have audio descriptionon normally, are you noticing
how writing changes based off of, like how quickly people are
having to kind of describewhat's happening?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Definitely, I think, and I tell everyone you know
that wants to be a writer, thatis a writer that doesn't know
what audio description is oflike.
If you want to be a writer,then watch a film or TV show
with audio description and watcha lot of them, because what it
does is it helps you understandhow to paint a visual picture
(03:27):
with words, but how to do itvery concisely.
And even though, like, an audiodescription script is very
different from a screenplay, Ithink that there are still
principles that apply there andit is interesting to see how
different audio descriptionwriters choose different types
of information to describe, andI think it's really challenging
(03:47):
because you know there's youknow, even in this environment,
here, there's like 5 millionthings that could be described
right now.
So it's like we have to choosewhat are the most important
things that are really going toadvance the story and add to the
environment or the momentthat's happening right now.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Fantastic.
So what are your favorite typesof audio description, like when
you're talking about beingconcise, what are the things
that you want to hear?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
What I want to hear is I want to hear about the
environment like little details.
So a great example of theenvironment would be like the
audio description for Barbie wasfantastic because you know at
the beginning to have, like youknow know, the empty cups or her
taking a shower with no water,or the plastic sand, those kinds
(04:29):
of things that visually I wouldunderstand what's going on.
But I might not catch thosenuanced details of the
production design and it'svaluable to describe those
because it plays into the comedyof the film and that's really
helpful to me to understand whatis this environment that's
adding to the mood or adding tothe humor.
(04:50):
And other times, you know,there might be environments that
not everything is necessary tobe described because it doesn't
really add anything to theenvironment in a big way, and
I'd rather have them describe,you know, what someone is doing,
or a picture on the wall thathas value rather than oh, it's a
desk made of oak wood.
You know, sometimes that'simportant and sometimes it's
(05:12):
okay to just kind of let thatone go by the wayside.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Wow, does it give away things Like?
Does it foreshadow a lot whenthey choose to make it about the
oak wood desk, because you knowlater that that's going to come
in?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
That's really a great question.
And sometimes it's interestingbecause they will say things
like that, you know, like theOakwood desk, and then they'll
call it back later.
So whenever they talk aboutsomething very specific in terms
of the environment, or aspecific picture or a little
detail, I always take note ofthat because I'm like I bet
that's going to be importantlater.
And you know, sometimes it isand other times it's not.
(05:48):
So sometimes I'll be waitingthe whole film or TV show to be
like, okay, what's the meaningof this, what's the value of
this?
And then it never comes back inand I'm like, oh man, that was
a little disappointing, yeah.
But you know, it's like.
You know, it's like, once again, each audio describer, each
audio description narrator, hastheir own style and I think that
(06:09):
makes it really fun and uniquebecause it's going to be
slightly varied.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
And I think the timing plays a big role in how
what can be said when it can besaid.
Lee and I were actuallywatching survivor together last
week with audio description um,and it was funny because, like
you know, they have the musicbuilding up like oh, who's gonna
win this challenge?
And then the audio describersays who wins before they
(06:37):
actually win.
Because because right when theywin they like you know, they're
cheering and then they starttalking and so it's kind of the
only place they can fit in thatthat bit.
So you do get like littlespoilers like that, but I mean
for the most part they they workas well as they can to like
keep, keep the um bits thatthey're describing not too far
(06:58):
ahead of what's happening, butyou do have to sometimes do it a
little before or a it.
And are there favoritenarrators that you have?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Are there certain audio description writers and do
you have a favorite?
Are they?
Do they have a face here or dothey kind of hide behind it to
keep you know?
Keep the story what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So that's another great question.
And there is a whole industrythat's comprised of audio
description writers andnarrators and I actually I don't
want to be, I don't want to doa shameless plug here, but I
actually do a podcast withanother visually impaired friend
and we have interviewed a lotof audio description writers and
(07:58):
narrators on there.
So I've learned a lot aboutaudio description through that.
And yeah, we do have somefavorite audio description
writers and narrators, like oneof my favorites her name is Liz
Gutman.
She worked on Maestro and a fewother, a bunch of other movies.
She does a lot for Netflix andI'm really a big fan of her.
(08:22):
So whenever, like at the end,they'll say, like you know, the
audio description was written byLiz Gutman, I'm always a big
fan of her.
So whenever, like at the end,they'll say, like you know, the
audio description was written byLiz Gutman, I'm always so
excited.
And then narration wise, that'salso very interesting too
because, like, they really put alot of time and consideration
into like, what kind of voice dowe want?
So, for example, if you'rewatching, like, a Michael Bay
action movie, you're probablynot going to get a soft-spoken
(08:44):
woman to you know, narrate that.
But if you're doing a Disneymovie, you're going to want, you
know, someone that maybe has alittle more colorful Disney
flair to their voice.
And so, in terms of narrators,one of my favorite narrators,
his name is Tristan Snyder, andhe did audio description
narration for Anatomy of a Fall,among many other credits as
(09:05):
well.
Yeah, I love that movie as well.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, hold on, I want you to do a shameless plug
there please.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Okay, so my podcast is called the Dark Room because
me and my other friend, who arevisually impaired, we're both
big movie buffs.
I mean, we probably go to thetheater close to 100 times a
year and we always use audiodescription when we go now, and
sometimes it's hit or miss, butthat's a whole nother story,
(09:37):
where sometimes the devices workproperly and other times it's a
little frustrating.
But because of that we'vegotten familiar with a lot of
audio description narrators andaudio description, uh, writers,
and so we started this podcastjust to kind of start the
conversation about accessibilityand to try to and to open up
the dialogue about how blind andlow vision people experience
(10:00):
media.
And you know we're not likehere to, like you know, guilt
anyone or to, like you know, benegative about anything.
But you know we're not likehere to, like you know, guilt
anyone or to, like you know, benegative about anything.
But you know it's like there'salways a learning curve, right
we'll, you only know what youknow, and I can't expect someone
who hasn't been in my shoes toknow how I experience media.
But what I can do is I canstart the conversation and help
educate them to give a deeperlevel of understanding to all
(10:24):
individuals, hopefully, and sothat's what we strive to do.
But we're also nerds too, sowe'll do like you know top 10
lists.
We'll do like we just did anepisode on our favorite
Spider-Man movies and we rankedthem, and then we'll also bring
in some industry professionals,like we've had a disabled actor
on our podcast before, adisabled film director on our
(10:44):
podcast before, and then we'vehad a disabled actor on our
podcast before, a disabled filmdirector on our podcast before.
And then we've had a lot ofinterviews with audio
description writers andnarrators, and actually one of
the coolest things that we didthis year earlier was an Oscars
audio description roundtablewhere we got audio description
writers and narrators from sevenof the 10 best picture films,
(11:06):
writers and narrators from sevenof the 10 best picture films,
and we did a panel with themwhere we just went down me and
my co-host, alex, moderated thepanel and we just asked them
questions like what was the mostchallenging scene to do audio
description for, what scene areyou most proud of?
And then we asked them veryspecific questions about each
movie individually and it wasreally cool and it was just such
a pleasure and privilege to beable to bring that to audiences
(11:30):
and listeners how fantastic isthat?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think we'll have to definitely do um a spotlight on
your podcast lee on thischannel.
So I think that's great.
It was like such a.
I'll let people you know watchit because it's available on
youtube to check out.
But and you'll be at like someincredible Oscar qualifying
festivals with it, because youknow it's an incredible film.
But I I was so moved by the endCause it's bittersweet Like,
(11:54):
it's like this sad kind of likewell, next one, I want to do
this kind of movie and I justlike I it ended on such a
wonderful note where, um, youknow, you obviously won, I think
, a $15,000 grant right To tokind of continue it on.
So what are the plans to to um?
Are you like doing a pilot?
Are you, are you trying to makeit a longer film?
Like, what is the kind of nextjourney for this film?
Speaker 5 (12:15):
I think the plan is to, uh, I mean, we, we are
currently actually developing itinto a feature.
Um, now, that being said, we'renot like currently making it
but, you know we're working onthe script and you know hoping
we can connect with the rightpeople to help make a feature
version of this happen.
That's so great, but that'skind of the dream with it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, I think it definitely has such a world we
can all like live in togetherand I think I was so like I felt
so connected to Lee in thatmovie, so I'm so glad I've seen
it Now Vertice.
You know Lee was saying that youintroduced him to the Easter
Seals Disability Film Challenge.
We obviously know you becausewe did education for the film
challenge this year, which wewere so excited to meet everyone
(13:00):
in the community, includingyourself, how you're doing a
documentary on Lee.
Can you talk to us about howthat came to fruition and what
that journey has been like foryou?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Absolutely.
I'm a member of the WritersGuild and I'm on the Disabled
Writers Committee and we had a.
We were having a scene nightand Lee was one of the actors in
the scene night.
I think you were in about threescenes, three or four.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, correct, I think it was three.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Three, and I was so impressed I thought you didn't
have to memorize the scriptbecause everyone had scripts in
their hand but he memorized theentire thing and I thought
that's really impressive.
So afterwards there was areception and we started talking
, which continued into thegarage, the parking garage.
I think I might have given youa ride home, I don't know, but I
(13:46):
just felt very connected to himin that space.
And there's something calledthe Media Access Awards.
I don't know if you've heard ofit.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Nick has told me a little about it.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
It's amazing.
It's basically, for those whomay not know, it's an award show
for the disabled community.
I would say, in comparison tothe Oscars, I mean it really is
amazing.
And the committee that I'm onat the Writers Guild they vote
on some of the awards, and sonow I'm at the award show and I
hear Nick talking about theDisability Film Challenge and I
(14:18):
thought, well, I want to do that.
And I thought, well, who wouldI want to make a film with?
And Lee came to mind.
He was the first person, so Ireached out to him.
And then another fellow writeron the disabled committee at the
guild, she came aboard.
She had ironically moved to NewYork, so we were writing.
We didn't have five days likeyou guys, we had like three days
(14:38):
.
Yeah, it was.
It was really, it was reallydifferent.
So on Friday, I think, we gotthe assignment and we were
writing back and forth and Iwent to the to record the music
with the composer and he didnwriting back and forth.
And I went to the uh to recordthe music with the composer and
he didn't even know.
We didn't have an idea as towhat the film was going to be
about.
But we finished writing thefilm, along with the help of my
producers, and then we got thelocation and we shot on Saturday
(15:01):
and a little bit on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, and so how much um of this documentary that
you're currently shooting, likewith you two together, how much
have you shot?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
40, we're about.
We've shot about 40%.
We still have about 60 to doand, of course, the 60 that we
have to do is definitely veryinvolved.
So we are we're looking forstrategic partners right now
because we want to finish thisor finish shooting, if not the
end of this year, top of nextyear Fantastic.
So we started shooting at thevery end of 2021.
(15:34):
We had some wonderful companieswho came aboard and donated
some of their equipment, likeRed and some other really
wonderful people, and it hasbeen such a beautiful, beautiful
opportunity, not only for Leeto invite us into his life, but
also to see the world or see aperson with a disability as an
(15:56):
artist and some of the thingsthat challenges that they have,
and it's just been beautiful.
So very appreciative Now.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Lee, for the stuff that you're acting in, because
you know Vertice is talkingabout.
You did three or four scenesthat night and had it all
memorized.
Because you know Vertice istalking about, you did three or
four scenes that night and hadit all memorized.
Is there a pressure to kind ofmemorize it?
Or when you're preparing sides,you know for something
alternatively to memorizing, areyou bringing a device with you
in order to kind of have yoursides with you, or what would
(16:22):
that kind of look like if youhadn't memorized it?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So I do have some magnification devices and,
depending on you know like howbig the font is and what level
of magnification my devices are,I could use a magnifying glass
and you know, just like scan itover the text, but for me I feel
(16:45):
like I'm so slow when I do that.
So fortunately, I do have a veryquick memory, which is helpful,
so I can memorize things veryquickly and anytime I've done
any kind of like you know,acting role whether it's in
theater, film or, you know, areading I just prefer to
memorize the text, because itmakes it a lot easier for me to
(17:08):
play off of the other peoplethat I'm working with and even,
like I do, you know, privateacting coaching from time to
time.
And if I'm doing a scene withsomeone that I'm coaching, I
will memorize the parts that I'msupposed to be reading for them
, rather than just reading themalong with them Once again, just
because it's easier for me tofocus on what they're doing at
(17:30):
that point in time and to givethem direction, because I'm not
stuck in the text, I just haveit in my mind.
So, basically, my modusoperandum is memorize everything
.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes, I get that.
I'm always impressed Like Haleyis the actor side of
cinematography, for actors and I, you know, have a terrible
memory and I'm always veryimpressed when you know an actor
can sit there and like 10minutes later, be like, or you
know however long it takes.
But just memorization is such askill and so it's so incredible
when you're like I have youknow, I have a pretty good
memory and I'm lucky to have it.
I'm like it's just such a skill, you know, it's such a part of
(18:03):
the role.
Lee and Luke, this was kind ofthe opportunity to show what
proper like I know this is done,but show kind of like what your
ideal description looks like ina way, even though you're, like
you know, playing the characterin it too.
But it also shows a way that ascript should be written so that
you have the amount of timethat you need in order to
(18:24):
visually describe it right, Likewas this a fun kind of case
study for audio description.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, it's a purpose-built film for audio
description, which is not common.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Well, it was interesting because I actually
had to do two copies of thescript.
So you know, most of you thatwrite scripts would know that,
like generally, one page ofscript is one minute of film and
so, but with audio descriptionyou're adding in a lot more
audio or a lot more dialogue.
Generally, one page of scriptis one minute of film and so,
but with audio descriptionyou're adding in a lot more
audio or a lot more dialogue.
And so I wrote a second draftof the script that included the
(18:57):
audio description, and I kind ofhad to do them in tandem so I
could see, all right, what's thetiming gonna be, but then also
what's the audio descriptionthat needs to be in here, to
make sense of what's happening.
So that was a really superunique process and yeah, I don't
know it was really fun and itfelt fresh and new.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, it was really cool, and I mean props to Luke,
because this was his idea tokind of merge audio description
as, like an actual character.
It's something that I wish I hadthe brilliance to think of that
concept, but I didn't.
I mean, he sent me, you know, adraft and you know I would give
him notes on it and we would dothat a little bit back and forth
(19:44):
, and I definitely helped himdevelop more of the script, but
I mean, the writing and theconcept was all Luke.
What I loved about the script,though, is that it brought
awareness.
It brings awareness to audiodescription in a very fun and
creative way, and it kind ofcreates a film that's, you know,
(20:06):
for both sighted and blind andlow vision audiences all in one,
rather than, like you know, ona regular studio movie, for
example, it's like, okay, audiodescription, you can turn it on,
or you can like listen to thetrack along with the movie, but
that's specifically for blind orlow vision viewers, and the
(20:27):
sighted viewer isn't going toget that experience at all with
audio description.
You know it serves the sightedviewer and giving them something
fun and creative in the waythat it that it introduces the
concept of audio description,but it also serves the needs of
the blind and low visioncommunities by just
incorporating it into the scriptand into the film already, so
(20:50):
that way both communities canfully enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, wow, how incredible.
Now, what is I kind of want tochat about?
So how long did you have tolike?
So, yeah, shooting and thenediting, like what does that
look like?
Were you trying to have moreemphasis on like the shooting
time or the editing time, likepost things like that?
How do you kind of, if someonehas not done a challenge before,
(21:15):
what would you recommend thatthey do?
Or if they're looking atgetting involved in you know the
EDFC, you know next year, whatdoes that look like?
What should you be prepared forto shoot in five days?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, I'm sure one of the things that Luke would
recommend is not working fulltime during the week, because
the whole time that, like wewere doing this film challenge,
luke had a full time job that hewas working from like 10am till
7pm.
So our shoots were, like youknow, seven in the morning and
then, like you know, 730 atnight when he got off of work,
and then, you know, 8m till 2 ambecause luke had to do it all
around um doing his full-timejob.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Good for you, it was pretty exhausting.
I I mean, with any film it'slike do as much prep as you
possibly can, you know, likehave your team set up, ready to
go, you know, have yourequipment together and then
figure out the little detailswhen you can.
But we definitely tried toprioritize let's let's get the
(22:15):
filming done as soon as we canand then do the editing and post
, cause the post does take moretime.
Um, so I think we had, I thinkwe did like two days of filming
and three days of post, and itwas still exhausting and
stressful, but we got it to work.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
And I think that for a five-day film challenge that's
probably the best way to go.
If you can get the filming donein the first two days, then you
have three days to add in themusic, to do any kind of ADR, to
do coloration, to do all ofthat stuff.
And I mean um post washappening right up till the very
last minute when we wereuploading oh yeah, we recorded
(22:53):
the audio description itselflike hours before the deadline.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
So I was over at the the guy's uh place he has his
own like vo booth um, uh,jonathan, our friend, um, and he
was recording it and he waslike, okay, yeah, I can get this
to you and uh pretty soon.
And I'm like, oh yeah, can Ijust like get it now on a thumb
drive because, like, we'resubmitting this in like an hour
or two.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So and we were pressed to the deadline, so,
like we were even emailing nickand we're like it's uploading
right now, because it was like 5, 58 or something that had to be
in by like 6 pm.
So, yeah, another funny thingabout this whole process too is,
admittedly, luke and I probablywaited longer than we should
have to assemble a productionteam together, and so it was
(23:40):
probably like a week before wewere supposed to shoot maybe
even a little less and we hadnothing in place in that realm
and I was a producer on thisfilm.
So I just started, like youknow, like texting and calling
everyone I knew to try to find,like you know, all the positions
and to try to find thelocations and everything.
But it was overwhelming andthere was a moment where I was
(24:03):
like I don't think this is goingto happen because Luke is too
busy and there just seems to beso many things that are not in
place, and so I was actuallywaiting for Luke to tell me that
he didn't have the time to dothis and I was totally ready to
pull the plug if he had broughtit up.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And ironically, I was thinking the exact same thing.
I was like I don't want to bethe one to tap out.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
But if Lee says hey, I don't think we can do this,
then I'm like okay, we're done,you know we're not doing it.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So this whole thing was a game of chicken.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, exactly yeah, I think that this is all so great
for our listeners to hear andfor me even I'm sitting here
just soaking it in because thereis advice that you gave, things
like shoot early because youneed time for post.
And me as an actor, even thoughI'm, you know, I'm a little bit
more connected to the otherside of things at this point.
(25:01):
I still had not even thought ofthat.
I was like oh yeah you shoot forfive days, it'll be fun no, you
don't shoot for five days andalso, people will have jobs.
People still have to work.
Even though this is a filmchallenge and it was only five
days, you were still shootingall night and working all day,
but it's still possible to makean award winning film.
(25:23):
And that's kind of the way wehave to do.
Things at first is just, wehave to make it work.
But it's also possible to makeit work.
I think a lot of people getdiscouraged because they they
don't think they have time to dosomething that's going to be
any good, and so they let thatbe the answer, they let that be
the no and they take the L onthat and they're like oh gosh, I
(25:43):
can't be a filmmaker.
And they give up and go home.
You don't have to do that.
You can't be a filmmaker, andthey give up and go home.
You don't have to do that.
You can push through a few daysof really rough nights, work
your job, be sick and be tired,but you could win.
You can still make somethingreally good and that's great.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
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Speaker 2 (26:29):
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(26:50):
quote.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Lee, you were speaking about how you like to
go see the movies, and themovies sometimes are hit or miss
because of the devices.
Is this a device that you areborrowing from the theater with
the audio description on it?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Correct.
So when I go to a movie theaterI'll ask them for an audio
description device, and it usedto be this little like
rectangular box with a headsetand then they had to program it
on the right channel Once themovie starts.
Then it would sync up with thedigital track or I don't even
know how that technology worksand then in the headphones you
(27:28):
would hear the audio descriptiontrack along with the movie.
And I usually go to AMCtheaters because I have the AMC
A-list, which is awesome.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
AMC's taking over the world.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And I'm the customer they don't like, because I
actually use my three moviesmost every week and so I'm
getting a lot of value out of it.
But then they changed theirdevices, so now they kind of
look like this, like it's onthis huge stand, which I don't
really know why the stand needsto be there I always actually
unscrew it but it's like kind oflike a Android device or
(28:06):
something.
The new devices do seem to workbetter, because Luke's been
with me when it was like it's aquestion of is it going to work,
and there was a 50-50 chance,and half the time or most of the
time I used to go in justexpecting it not to work, and if
it worked it was an added bonus.
But now with the new devices,they're a lot more efficient
(28:27):
with them.
Yeah, it's great, honestly, andI'm really grateful that audio
description is available formost films.
I mean, when it comes tointernational markets, that's a
little more challenging, andwe're still working on getting
those films a little moreaccessible, because a lot of
international films don't alwayshave audio description and
(28:48):
those are the films that youknow have subtitles too.
So I can't even like justlisten to the dialogue and try
to pick up what I can and pieceeverything together.
If it's in, you know adifferent language yeah, I'm
here.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I'm here like how do we optimize this?
How do we make this easier?
Do you think that it is itwould be preferable, or would it
be more prohibitive, forsomeone with the mind and the
money to create a device that ispersonal, that you have, that
either you can go to the movietheater and you tell them which
film you're watching, and theycan.
(29:21):
They either give you a code orthey give you something, a chip
or something to upload, and thenyou know the device fits you,
then you know the device works.
Or is that more problematic?
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
So I think me and my podcast partner Alex we think
that a really good solutionwould be to have like an app
that you could, you know,download on your smartphone and
then you know when you go to themovie.
Like you said, there's a code,or you just check into the movie
that you're seeing at, you knowthe theater you're seeing it at
(29:56):
, and this would probably haveto be.
You know a theater you'reseeing it at and this would
probably have to be you know avery like theater chain specific
thing.
So, let's say, like in the AMCapp, for example, you know they
had a tab that saysaccessibility and then you check
into your movie or whatever,you type in a code and you let
them know, like you know whattheater you're in or something,
and then it would automaticallysync that audio description
(30:17):
track to the movie.
To me, that seems like the mostefficient way to make sure that
audio description is availableand working.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
That seems very possible too, and then you have
your AirPod and you head on inthe app.
Developers get to work.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Exactly exactly.
I've pitched that to a few umpeople, a few of the employees
at amc, and you know they thinkthat there's more efficient ways
to do things as well.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So we just all gotta start lobbying for this, because
how?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
important about accessibility is is what I think
the world needs to just startthinking about it, because I
think a lot, a big problem is alot of people just don't even it
doesn't cross their mindsbecause it doesn't cross their
paths.
And if everyone's thinkingabout it, the problems get
solved and the accessibility isa lot easier to find.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
One thing I will add to that, too, is you know, I am
not a disabled person, but I,you know, being friends with Lee
for a long time, I've gotten tosee, um, his unique perspective
on the world, and through,especially, experiencing film
for me, um, I think audiodescription as a filmmaker for
(31:30):
me is important because, as afilmmaker, you want your movie
to be experienced by as manypeople as possible, and so it's.
It's like if there's a wholegroup of people that aren't
getting to experience your film,like, you're missing out on the
opportunity to share somethingthat you're passionate about
with them.
And um, I think that that, withthis project was lee touched on
(31:55):
this a little bit earlier, but,like, it was so important to
like say, let's see how we canmake a film to bring together,
uh, everyone together toexperience this in the exact
same way that, like, I want thesighted viewer and the blind
viewer to be able to experiencethis film as closely, uh, to the
same as possible.
(32:16):
And, um, and so that that's'sdefinitely, I think, a goal for
me as a filmmaker, not that I'mgoing to make every film called
audio description, but just ingeneral, to think that I want my
movies to be seen by as manypeople as can be seen.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Absolutely and Fertiz for the documentary let's talk
about.
So Lee does not know the titleof this documentary.
Lee does not know the title,and can you tell us the acronym?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
It's M-L-I-S-C-U, so a friend of mine calls it
MILISCU.
I love it, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Like Maleficent.
Now let's talk about you as aas a director of this
documentary.
What is the reasoning behindnot allowing Lee to know the
title?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
The reasoning behind him not knowing the title is.
I thought if he knew the titlebecause there is some
information in there then itwould cause him, when we're
doing interviews, to kind ofskew things a certain way.
Then it would cause him, whenwe're doing interviews, to kind
of skew things a certain way.
And I want it to be veryauthentic and especially if
you're not a part of thedisabled community and more
specifically the visuallyimpaired community, I want them
(33:26):
to get a firsthand experience asto what are things like for an
entertainment professional whohas a disability.
So I felt it best that we, youknow, we keep certain things
from Lee.
With regards to the documentarySpecifically, we've even kept
questions.
You know I try not to do anypre-interviews unless it's time
(33:47):
sensitive, and then I'll say,okay, lee, we're going to talk
about this particular subjecttoday.
But the less that I feel heknows, the more authentic and
more real he can be, and that'swhat we want to say.
That's what I like watchingabout documentaries, you know, I
like seeing the person who'strue to their self, because
that's going to translate andcommunicate to the other
communities 100%, Lee.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
how do you feel about ?
Does that make you nervous,knowing that your response to
these questions that you don'tknow in advance is recorded for
posterity?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
You know it doesn't make me nervous, actually,
because, number one, there'salways editing, so I'm always
like protected by that.
And you know, number two, justlike being an actor, a director
and producer on projects.
I know the way that my mindthinks.
So if I know what I need toprepare, like my mind's
(34:41):
automatically going to go tothat.
And I mean even, like you know,I'll have conversations with
vertice about the behind thescenes stuff and I'm like, oh,
do we have this in place?
Do we have this in place?
And vertice is always like, lee, don't worry about this, just
focus on you being you.
And I really have to kind ofshut off that like director,
producer mindset and even, likeyou know, kind of the little
performative, like places that Icould be tempted to go when the
(35:05):
camera's on.
So it's been a very unique andspecial experience to be able to
do a documentary.
It definitely took someadjustment, you know, like you
know being used to being anactor, and now it's like, okay,
I'm not acting, but I am, youknow, I'm just being myself on
(35:27):
camera and it's like, how do Ido that?
Even though as an actor, that'swhat we should be doing anyway,
but it's like a littledifferent, because it's like me
in the most raw sense.
So that's been great, though,to be able to have a voice in
that way, and I want it to be asauthentic as possible too.
So I just told Vertise hit mewith anything, surprise me, and
(35:49):
you're going to get the mostauthentic reaction in that way
fantastic.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Now, we kind of skipped over this and I want, I
really want, to touch on it.
Before you know, we have towrap things up.
Um, you were talking about, uh,you a few days out from the
challenge, or a week out, youknow, having to crew up.
Let's talk about how you foundyour collaborators because, um,
you know, luke, you are agraduate of USC program.
Um, and then leave, been in theindustry working, you know like
(36:12):
working hard doing three scenesa night at writers uh, writer's
stuff.
So I just want to talk about howdid you crew up, like who was
like the first person you called?
How did you come together withthe crew?
Had you worked with them before?
Things like that?
Speaker 5 (36:24):
I.
I'm trying to think of who thefirst people.
I guess it was adrian it wasadrian that was the first person
that we called or that I calledyeah, so adrian is the, the
actor that plays um lewis.
Who's's the weirded out?
Co-worker.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
And you know, he did such a good job in like such a
small bit there, but we actuallyasked him to act in it.
And then, on top of that, hejust started like helping out,
like oh, let me find this personto help Gaff and do this and
that, and we were just like, ohwow, this guy is awesome.
So we ended up giving him anassociate producer credit
(37:00):
because he just put so much workinto it.
But it was definitely a teameffort where we're all looking
out to all our networks liketrying to do this on no budget.
Where can we get a location?
Who can do this and that?
And I was really shocked howwell everything came together
(37:20):
and we honestly a lot of us toowere working with people we
hadn't met before that were justreally passionate about what we
were doing and the story wewere telling.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
So I'll let Lee add to that.
Yeah, I mean, in addition tothat, I guess like I'm an
extrovert and so I guess theadvantage of being an extrovert
is being able to create a largenetwork of people from different
circles.
So I just started blasting outtext and blasting out phone
calls to people.
I'm like, hey, I know that thisis really last minute because
(37:50):
we're shooting next week, butwould you be interested in
helping us with this project andkind of explaining what the
disability challenge was, whatthe significance of it was?
And you know, just through that, you know, even if people
weren't able to help out, theywere like let me see if I can
find someone for you and theywould reach out to other people
on our behalf.
(38:10):
And I mean, truthfully, we justfelt very supported and just
very encouraged by the level ofsupport that we were getting
from everyone that really wantedto help us out, even if they
weren't able to find anyone, thefact that they were willing to
do it and that they cared enoughabout this project.
(38:31):
They saw the vision behind theDisability Film Challenge.
You know that was verymeaningful.
The Disability Film Challenge.
You know that was verymeaningful and a really cool
side story.
That kind of ties into me goingto the movie theater and getting
audio description devices isone of the guys.
His name is John.
He did Boom Mike for us on thereally late night shoot on a
Thursday night.
(38:51):
I actually met him back inDecember at AMC the Grove and he
was just one of those guys that, like, was helping me get an
audio description device.
He worked at AMC and he waswalking me to the theater and
then we just became friendsafter that because we realized
that you know, we were both inthe acting world and stuff and
(39:11):
I'm like let's stay in touch.
So then I reached out to him tosee if he knew anyone that
could help us crew and he waslike I really want to be a part
of this project.
Is there anything I can do?
Like I'll do anything at all,and he was just so gung ho to be
on board.
But it's like it was so coolthough, because it's like you
know, it's like those are thekind of like fun little moments.
(39:33):
I guess that can happen, youknow, even just from going to an
AMC theater and meeting anemployee and talking to them as
they're helping me get to mytheater.
It was, it was great, buteveryone I can't emphasize this
enough.
Everyone on our crew and in ourcast was truly amazing people
to work with.
They were so humble, they werejust so encouraging, so willing
(39:56):
to just do what needed to bedone, and me and Luke have said
this time and time again that,you know, the best film award is
shared with everyone involved.
It's not just about me and Luke, it's about everyone involved,
because had one less soundperson been there, one less
person been there to do any kindof setup, it's like we would
have been further behind and wewouldn't have had time to finish
(40:17):
everything we needed to.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
If I could add one thing and I think the real
catalyst to this is Nick NovickiI mean him starting this award
show, or starting this challenge, I should say, is really
amazing for the communitybecause it's grown.
Every year it becomes more andmore impactful and every year
there are people who are not inthe disabled community who are
learning about this for thefirst time and who are saying
(40:41):
you know what, maybe I would,I'm going to consider hiring
someone in the community.
So big shout out to Nick forstarting this and to the
Easterseals as well.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
It's changed our lives, Like that's for sure.
We met Nick.
I went up to Nick at Hollyshorts last year.
I used to listen to him on theNate land podcast and I was like
I never come up to anyone, butlike I just want to say you're
hilarious.
And he was like what are youdoing here?
Speaker 6 (41:06):
Like he was very nice , but he was like what are you
doing at Holly shorts and I why?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
are you here?
No, he was like what are and beour first interview?
Cause we had, like I think, ahundred interviews, 130
interviews going, but we werelike, do you want to be the
first one?
We're just setting up?
So he was like yeah, and so Itook him up and he talked about
the disability film challengeand and that's how we ended up
partnering to do over a hundredhours of education with the
community this year and it'schanged the way we approach
(41:31):
filmmaking, it's changed the waywe talk about filmmaking, it's
changed the way we would crew up, that we would try and tell
stories, because not only werewe able to teach the community,
but we were able to learn a lotas well from the community, not
only about how to make our filmsets more accessible, but also
that we're missing out ontelling a lot of stories, like a
lot of stories that have notbeen told, because the way of
(41:52):
viewing and seeing the worldaround you is different.
And you know we talk aboutrepresentation, but, um, there's
not enough disability, um,represented in the way that
scripts are being written or theway that we are shooting or the
way that we are describing it.
You know, and and so it haschanged the world for us as well
and and you know, going intothis year and then you know the
(42:13):
future years, we're going to befocusing a lot more on that and
partnering with Nick for sure.
So I love that you mentionedthat, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I also think that it's, um, a cool trick of the
trade that we can pass on to ourlisteners.
Um, we, we talk a lot about howimportant it is to find your
community here, because peoplewant to work with people.
They like people often rehirethe people they know they like
to work with.
And also it has been mentioneda couple of times on different
(42:48):
podcasts that we've been guestson that it is scary to hire cold
.
It's scary to hire people towork on a crew if you've never
met them before or if you don'thave a recommendation from
someone they know who will speakfor them.
And that's part of what makesit seem really difficult to get
into the industry is, if youhaven't worked before, nobody
can speak for you.
This is such a unique challengebecause the community is so
(43:14):
special.
The community is just justincredible and the way that
everyone looks out for eachother and the way that people
are willing and just so down towork with you and do whatever
they need to do to make yourstory shine, that you can trust
that anybody who has worked in,worked on a film in this
(43:35):
challenge is going to be someonewho's going to be an asset to
your set, and I think that's areally cool thing to be able to
say that you can just asksomeone have you ever worked on
a film for the Disability FilmChallenge?
And if they say yes, you knowthey'll be an amazing hire a
dream hire Five days of gruelingwork to make a really cool film
(43:56):
that no one has said or heardor uh tried to portray before,
so I think it's so wonderfulpart of a community that is
focused on accessibility, sothey're going to do whatever
needs to be done to make itpossible for everyone to tell
their story yes, so nick isalways getting shout outs
everywhere because he's sowonderful, but, um, but I am,
I'm so happy, I'm gonna takethis, I am, I am so yeah, kind
(44:19):
of yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I'm always like it doesn't matter, because I'm a DP
and I'm like sound whatever.
Sorry, um, but uh, I, lee, I amexactly like you.
I love making friends in likethe greatest places that you
would never normally make, likea collaborator friend.
You know, and I absolutelyadore that you kind of brought
someone on that was like I wouldlove to be a part of that and I
(44:42):
love that you stayed in contactwith me and stayed in touch.
And you know, I think we alwayshave to remember that
like-minded collaborators cancome from everywhere and we just
have to be open-minded to kindof bringing them a part of our
life and our network.
Thank you guys so much for beinga part of this episode with us.
We are so excited to not onlyplug Lee's podcast and share
(45:03):
that link in the bio, but alsoplug audio description as well
as your wonderful documentarycoming out M-L-I-S-C-U.
Now, before we head out today,can you guys tell us where this
film will be screening so thatpeople can check it out, where
they can find it?
And then as well, if you'relooking for where people can
donate to funding thedocumentary or the feature,
(45:25):
things like that.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Yeah, so as part of part of winning best film, is
that we're also going to be putinto the Holly Shorts Film
Festival, into the HollySchwartz Film Festival I do not
know the dates on any of these,but Holly Schwartz, I believe,
heartland and New Filmmakers, la, and then, of course, we're
(45:46):
submitting it to you knowanywhere that we think is going
to be a good fit as well.
The festival world is daunting,but it will be out there and
hopefully we can share it with alot more people and you can
also watch Audio Descriptionright now on the Disability Film
Challenge YouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I think if you just go to YouTube and you type in
Disability Film Challenge AudioDescription, you will find it
there, because that's how I'veaccessed it.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, same, you can just watch.
Oh my gosh, you can just watchit.
Okay, oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
And uh, you know it's definitely better to watch in
the theater you know, so yeah ifyou can go to a film festival,
watch it there and you get tomeet the filmmakers.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
You get to meet leon luke and vertice.
Now vertice um.
How can we learn more about thedocumentary or what are next
steps?
How can we follow along?
Speaker 4 (46:35):
thank you for asking.
Uh, so yes, we are currentlyshooting.
We have not startedpost-production, so the best way
to find out more about thedocumentary, or if you're
interested in working with us,please hit me up on social media
.
Uh, you can find my informationin the chat, I guess with you
guys in the description.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Can you also give a shout out to what you're um?
Where to find you on Instagram?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
Uh, I would say Facebook.
So on Facebook please.
So it would be under my nameVertice V-I-R-T-I-C.
Emil E-M-I-L Brown, b-r-o-w-n.
And again, welcome all.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Great Um.
Thank you guys so much forjoining us and we can't wait to
have you back, Probably at Hollyshorts, If we end up partnering
with them this is a plug forTheo and Daniel, because we're
going to have them on the couchsoon.
Thanks everybody, bye.
Speaker 5 (47:22):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
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It all starts atcinematographyfractorscom, and
if you liked this episode,no-transcript.
You know it doesn't make me nervous, actually,
because, number one, there'salways editing, so I'm always
like protected by that, you know.
Number two, just like being anactor, a director and producer
on projects.
I know the way that my mindthinks.
So if I know what I need toprepare, like my mind's
automatically going to go tothat.
(00:21):
And I mean even, like you know,I'll have conversations with
Vertice about the behind thescenes stuff and I'm like, oh,
do we have this in place?
Do we have this in place?
And Vertice is always like Lee,don't worry about this, just
focus on you being you this isthe cinematography for actors
podcast more than a podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
cinematography for actors is a vibrant community
devoted to bridging the gapbetween talent and crew.
Each week, our show offerstransparent, insightful
conversations with industryleaders.
We unveil the magic behind thescenes, from candid discussions
about unique filmmakingprocesses to in-depth technical
exploration.
Join us in unraveling theintricacies of filmmaking, one
(01:01):
episode at a time.
It's more than just cameras andlenses we aim to inspire,
educate and empower as we peelback the curtain on the art of
effective storytelling.
Now on to the episode.
Hi everybody.
Welcome to an episode of theCinematography for Actors
podcast.
I am your host, haley Royal,here with your co-host, indiana
Underhill.
We are seated here with LeighPugsley, luke Zelesky and
(01:25):
Vertice Emile Brown.
Yes, Okay amazing Welcome guys.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So excited to have you here.
We were really lucky to beinvited to the Easterseals
Disability Film Challenge Awardsand Leigh's film audio
description was a winner and weloved it and I'm handing it over
to Indiana Because I'm a realfan girl this movie.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I am really excited that we are here with you guys
today because immediately fromwatching congratulations, by the
way, on winning the best filmaward- Thank you so much what an
incredible accomplishment.
And I felt like there had to besome redemption there, because
while we were watching all theawards and you kept coming up, I
kept wanting to see the HotPocket scene and I just kept
(02:12):
wanting to see that.
I was like, oh, from the momentit came up as a teaser for one
of the awards you were going towin, you were nominated for, I
was like, oh, this looks so good.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
We laughed so hard.
Yes, the first time we saw thatHot Pocket pocket teaser, we
laughed so hard and it almostfelt inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
yeah, and so I'm really excited that you guys won
that award because it felt like, okay, we it's been teased so
many times I need to watch thisfilm and we finally got to watch
it.
And and vertice, obviouslyyou're doing a documentary on
lee that we're going to diveinto as well, um, but here at c
we talk a lot about thetechnical, practical and
creative aspects of filmmaking,so how we can be better
(02:48):
collaborators, and I think audiodescription is such a great
idea.
Lee, when you're like watchingthings with audio, you know,
when you have audio descriptionon normally, are you noticing
how writing changes based off of, like how quickly people are
having to kind of describewhat's happening?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Definitely, I think, and I tell everyone you know
that wants to be a writer, thatis a writer that doesn't know
what audio description is oflike.
If you want to be a writer,then watch a film or TV show
with audio description and watcha lot of them, because what it
does is it helps you understandhow to paint a visual picture
(03:27):
with words, but how to do itvery concisely.
And even though, like, an audiodescription script is very
different from a screenplay, Ithink that there are still
principles that apply there andit is interesting to see how
different audio descriptionwriters choose different types
of information to describe, andI think it's really challenging
(03:47):
because you know there's youknow, even in this environment,
here, there's like 5 millionthings that could be described
right now.
So it's like we have to choosewhat are the most important
things that are really going toadvance the story and add to the
environment or the momentthat's happening right now.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Fantastic.
So what are your favorite typesof audio description, like when
you're talking about beingconcise, what are the things
that you want to hear?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
What I want to hear is I want to hear about the
environment like little details.
So a great example of theenvironment would be like the
audio description for Barbie wasfantastic because you know at
the beginning to have, like youknow know, the empty cups or her
taking a shower with no water,or the plastic sand, those kinds
(04:29):
of things that visually I wouldunderstand what's going on.
But I might not catch thosenuanced details of the
production design and it'svaluable to describe those
because it plays into the comedyof the film and that's really
helpful to me to understand whatis this environment that's
adding to the mood or adding tothe humor.
(04:50):
And other times, you know,there might be environments that
not everything is necessary tobe described because it doesn't
really add anything to theenvironment in a big way, and
I'd rather have them describe,you know, what someone is doing,
or a picture on the wall thathas value rather than oh, it's a
desk made of oak wood.
You know, sometimes that'simportant and sometimes it's
(05:12):
okay to just kind of let thatone go by the wayside.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Wow, does it give away things Like?
Does it foreshadow a lot whenthey choose to make it about the
oak wood desk, because you knowlater that that's going to come
in?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
That's really a great question.
And sometimes it's interestingbecause they will say things
like that, you know, like theOakwood desk, and then they'll
call it back later.
So whenever they talk aboutsomething very specific in terms
of the environment, or aspecific picture or a little
detail, I always take note ofthat because I'm like I bet
that's going to be importantlater.
And you know, sometimes it isand other times it's not.
(05:48):
So sometimes I'll be waitingthe whole film or TV show to be
like, okay, what's the meaningof this, what's the value of
this?
And then it never comes back inand I'm like, oh man, that was
a little disappointing, yeah.
But you know, it's like.
You know, it's like, once again, each audio describer, each
audio description narrator, hastheir own style and I think that
(06:09):
makes it really fun and uniquebecause it's going to be
slightly varied.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
And I think the timing plays a big role in how
what can be said when it can besaid.
Lee and I were actuallywatching survivor together last
week with audio description um,and it was funny because, like
you know, they have the musicbuilding up like oh, who's gonna
win this challenge?
And then the audio describersays who wins before they
(06:37):
actually win.
Because because right when theywin they like you know, they're
cheering and then they starttalking and so it's kind of the
only place they can fit in thatthat bit.
So you do get like littlespoilers like that, but I mean
for the most part they they workas well as they can to like
keep, keep the um bits thatthey're describing not too far
(06:58):
ahead of what's happening, butyou do have to sometimes do it a
little before or a it.
And are there favoritenarrators that you have?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Are there certain audio description writers and do
you have a favorite?
Are they?
Do they have a face here or dothey kind of hide behind it to
keep you know?
Keep the story what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So that's another great question.
And there is a whole industrythat's comprised of audio
description writers andnarrators and I actually I don't
want to be, I don't want to doa shameless plug here, but I
actually do a podcast withanother visually impaired friend
and we have interviewed a lotof audio description writers and
(07:58):
narrators on there.
So I've learned a lot aboutaudio description through that.
And yeah, we do have somefavorite audio description
writers and narrators, like oneof my favorites her name is Liz
Gutman.
She worked on Maestro and a fewother, a bunch of other movies.
She does a lot for Netflix andI'm really a big fan of her.
(08:22):
So whenever, like at the end,they'll say, like you know, the
audio description was written byLiz Gutman, I'm always a big
fan of her.
So whenever, like at the end,they'll say, like you know, the
audio description was written byLiz Gutman, I'm always so
excited.
And then narration wise, that'salso very interesting too
because, like, they really put alot of time and consideration
into like, what kind of voice dowe want?
So, for example, if you'rewatching, like, a Michael Bay
action movie, you're probablynot going to get a soft-spoken
(08:44):
woman to you know, narrate that.
But if you're doing a Disneymovie, you're going to want, you
know, someone that maybe has alittle more colorful Disney
flair to their voice.
And so, in terms of narrators,one of my favorite narrators,
his name is Tristan Snyder, andhe did audio description
narration for Anatomy of a Fall,among many other credits as
(09:05):
well.
Yeah, I love that movie as well.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, hold on, I want you to do a shameless plug
there please.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Okay, so my podcast is called the Dark Room because
me and my other friend, who arevisually impaired, we're both
big movie buffs.
I mean, we probably go to thetheater close to 100 times a
year and we always use audiodescription when we go now, and
sometimes it's hit or miss, butthat's a whole nother story,
(09:37):
where sometimes the devices workproperly and other times it's a
little frustrating.
But because of that we'vegotten familiar with a lot of
audio description narrators andaudio description, uh, writers,
and so we started this podcastjust to kind of start the
conversation about accessibilityand to try to and to open up
the dialogue about how blind andlow vision people experience
(10:00):
media.
And you know we're not likehere to, like you know, guilt
anyone or to, like you know, benegative about anything.
But you know we're not likehere to, like you know, guilt
anyone or to, like you know, benegative about anything.
But you know it's like there'salways a learning curve, right
we'll, you only know what youknow, and I can't expect someone
who hasn't been in my shoes toknow how I experience media.
But what I can do is I canstart the conversation and help
educate them to give a deeperlevel of understanding to all
(10:24):
individuals, hopefully, and sothat's what we strive to do.
But we're also nerds too, sowe'll do like you know top 10
lists.
We'll do like we just did anepisode on our favorite
Spider-Man movies and we rankedthem, and then we'll also bring
in some industry professionals,like we've had a disabled actor
on our podcast before, adisabled film director on our
(10:44):
podcast before, and then we'vehad a disabled actor on our
podcast before, a disabled filmdirector on our podcast before.
And then we've had a lot ofinterviews with audio
description writers andnarrators, and actually one of
the coolest things that we didthis year earlier was an Oscars
audio description roundtablewhere we got audio description
writers and narrators from sevenof the 10 best picture films,
(11:06):
writers and narrators from sevenof the 10 best picture films,
and we did a panel with themwhere we just went down me and
my co-host, alex, moderated thepanel and we just asked them
questions like what was the mostchallenging scene to do audio
description for, what scene areyou most proud of?
And then we asked them veryspecific questions about each
movie individually and it wasreally cool and it was just such
a pleasure and privilege to beable to bring that to audiences
(11:30):
and listeners how fantastic isthat?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think we'll have to definitely do um a spotlight on
your podcast lee on thischannel.
So I think that's great.
It was like such a.
I'll let people you know watchit because it's available on
youtube to check out.
But and you'll be at like someincredible Oscar qualifying
festivals with it, because youknow it's an incredible film.
But I I was so moved by the endCause it's bittersweet Like,
(11:54):
it's like this sad kind of likewell, next one, I want to do
this kind of movie and I justlike I it ended on such a
wonderful note where, um, youknow, you obviously won, I think
, a $15,000 grant right To tokind of continue it on.
So what are the plans to to um?
Are you like doing a pilot?
Are you, are you trying to makeit a longer film?
Like, what is the kind of nextjourney for this film?
Speaker 5 (12:15):
I think the plan is to, uh, I mean, we, we are
currently actually developing itinto a feature.
Um, now, that being said, we'renot like currently making it
but, you know we're working onthe script and you know hoping
we can connect with the rightpeople to help make a feature
version of this happen.
That's so great, but that'skind of the dream with it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, I think it definitely has such a world we
can all like live in togetherand I think I was so like I felt
so connected to Lee in thatmovie, so I'm so glad I've seen
it Now Vertice.
You know Lee was saying that youintroduced him to the Easter
Seals Disability Film Challenge.
We obviously know you becausewe did education for the film
challenge this year, which wewere so excited to meet everyone
(13:00):
in the community, includingyourself, how you're doing a
documentary on Lee.
Can you talk to us about howthat came to fruition and what
that journey has been like foryou?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Absolutely.
I'm a member of the WritersGuild and I'm on the Disabled
Writers Committee and we had a.
We were having a scene nightand Lee was one of the actors in
the scene night.
I think you were in about threescenes, three or four.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, correct, I think it was three.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Three, and I was so impressed I thought you didn't
have to memorize the scriptbecause everyone had scripts in
their hand but he memorized theentire thing and I thought
that's really impressive.
So afterwards there was areception and we started talking
, which continued into thegarage, the parking garage.
I think I might have given youa ride home, I don't know, but I
(13:46):
just felt very connected to himin that space.
And there's something calledthe Media Access Awards.
I don't know if you've heard ofit.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Nick has told me a little about it.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
It's amazing.
It's basically, for those whomay not know, it's an award show
for the disabled community.
I would say, in comparison tothe Oscars, I mean it really is
amazing.
And the committee that I'm onat the Writers Guild they vote
on some of the awards, and sonow I'm at the award show and I
hear Nick talking about theDisability Film Challenge and I
(14:18):
thought, well, I want to do that.
And I thought, well, who wouldI want to make a film with?
And Lee came to mind.
He was the first person, so Ireached out to him.
And then another fellow writeron the disabled committee at the
guild, she came aboard.
She had ironically moved to NewYork, so we were writing.
We didn't have five days likeyou guys, we had like three days
(14:38):
.
Yeah, it was.
It was really, it was reallydifferent.
So on Friday, I think, we gotthe assignment and we were
writing back and forth and Iwent to the to record the music
with the composer and he didnwriting back and forth.
And I went to the uh to recordthe music with the composer and
he didn't even know.
We didn't have an idea as towhat the film was going to be
about.
But we finished writing thefilm, along with the help of my
producers, and then we got thelocation and we shot on Saturday
(15:01):
and a little bit on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, and so how much um of this documentary that
you're currently shooting, likewith you two together, how much
have you shot?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
40, we're about.
We've shot about 40%.
We still have about 60 to doand, of course, the 60 that we
have to do is definitely veryinvolved.
So we are we're looking forstrategic partners right now
because we want to finish thisor finish shooting, if not the
end of this year, top of nextyear Fantastic.
So we started shooting at thevery end of 2021.
(15:34):
We had some wonderful companieswho came aboard and donated
some of their equipment, likeRed and some other really
wonderful people, and it hasbeen such a beautiful, beautiful
opportunity, not only for Leeto invite us into his life, but
also to see the world or see aperson with a disability as an
(15:56):
artist and some of the thingsthat challenges that they have,
and it's just been beautiful.
So very appreciative Now.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Lee, for the stuff that you're acting in, because
you know Vertice is talkingabout.
You did three or four scenesthat night and had it all
memorized.
Because you know Vertice istalking about, you did three or
four scenes that night and hadit all memorized.
Is there a pressure to kind ofmemorize it?
Or when you're preparing sides,you know for something
alternatively to memorizing, areyou bringing a device with you
in order to kind of have yoursides with you, or what would
(16:22):
that kind of look like if youhadn't memorized it?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So I do have some magnification devices and,
depending on you know like howbig the font is and what level
of magnification my devices are,I could use a magnifying glass
and you know, just like scan itover the text, but for me I feel
(16:45):
like I'm so slow when I do that.
So fortunately, I do have a veryquick memory, which is helpful,
so I can memorize things veryquickly and anytime I've done
any kind of like you know,acting role whether it's in
theater, film or, you know, areading I just prefer to
memorize the text, because itmakes it a lot easier for me to
(17:08):
play off of the other peoplethat I'm working with and even,
like I do, you know, privateacting coaching from time to
time.
And if I'm doing a scene withsomeone that I'm coaching, I
will memorize the parts that I'msupposed to be reading for them
, rather than just reading themalong with them Once again, just
because it's easier for me tofocus on what they're doing at
(17:30):
that point in time and to givethem direction, because I'm not
stuck in the text, I just haveit in my mind.
So, basically, my modusoperandum is memorize everything
.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes, I get that.
I'm always impressed Like Haleyis the actor side of
cinematography, for actors and I, you know, have a terrible
memory and I'm always veryimpressed when you know an actor
can sit there and like 10minutes later, be like, or you
know however long it takes.
But just memorization is such askill and so it's so incredible
when you're like I have youknow, I have a pretty good
memory and I'm lucky to have it.
I'm like it's just such a skill, you know, it's such a part of
(18:03):
the role.
Lee and Luke, this was kind ofthe opportunity to show what
proper like I know this is done,but show kind of like what your
ideal description looks like ina way, even though you're, like
you know, playing the characterin it too.
But it also shows a way that ascript should be written so that
you have the amount of timethat you need in order to
(18:24):
visually describe it right, Likewas this a fun kind of case
study for audio description.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, it's a purpose-built film for audio
description, which is not common.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Well, it was interesting because I actually
had to do two copies of thescript.
So you know, most of you thatwrite scripts would know that,
like generally, one page ofscript is one minute of film and
so, but with audio descriptionyou're adding in a lot more
audio or a lot more dialogue.
Generally, one page of scriptis one minute of film and so,
but with audio descriptionyou're adding in a lot more
audio or a lot more dialogue.
And so I wrote a second draftof the script that included the
(18:57):
audio description, and I kind ofhad to do them in tandem so I
could see, all right, what's thetiming gonna be, but then also
what's the audio descriptionthat needs to be in here, to
make sense of what's happening.
So that was a really superunique process and yeah, I don't
know it was really fun and itfelt fresh and new.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, it was really cool, and I mean props to Luke,
because this was his idea tokind of merge audio description
as, like an actual character.
It's something that I wish I hadthe brilliance to think of that
concept, but I didn't.
I mean, he sent me, you know, adraft and you know I would give
him notes on it and we would dothat a little bit back and forth
(19:44):
, and I definitely helped himdevelop more of the script, but
I mean, the writing and theconcept was all Luke.
What I loved about the script,though, is that it brought
awareness.
It brings awareness to audiodescription in a very fun and
creative way, and it kind ofcreates a film that's, you know,
(20:06):
for both sighted and blind andlow vision audiences all in one,
rather than, like you know, ona regular studio movie, for
example, it's like, okay, audiodescription, you can turn it on,
or you can like listen to thetrack along with the movie, but
that's specifically for blind orlow vision viewers, and the
(20:27):
sighted viewer isn't going toget that experience at all with
audio description.
You know it serves the sightedviewer and giving them something
fun and creative in the waythat it that it introduces the
concept of audio description,but it also serves the needs of
the blind and low visioncommunities by just
incorporating it into the scriptand into the film already, so
(20:50):
that way both communities canfully enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, wow, how incredible.
Now, what is I kind of want tochat about?
So how long did you have tolike?
So, yeah, shooting and thenediting, like what does that
look like?
Were you trying to have moreemphasis on like the shooting
time or the editing time, likepost things like that?
How do you kind of, if someonehas not done a challenge before,
(21:15):
what would you recommend thatthey do?
Or if they're looking atgetting involved in you know the
EDFC, you know next year, whatdoes that look like?
What should you be prepared forto shoot in five days?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, I'm sure one of the things that Luke would
recommend is not working fulltime during the week, because
the whole time that, like wewere doing this film challenge,
luke had a full time job that hewas working from like 10am till
7pm.
So our shoots were, like youknow, seven in the morning and
then, like you know, 730 atnight when he got off of work,
and then, you know, 8m till 2 ambecause luke had to do it all
around um doing his full-timejob.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Good for you, it was pretty exhausting.
I I mean, with any film it'slike do as much prep as you
possibly can, you know, likehave your team set up, ready to
go, you know, have yourequipment together and then
figure out the little detailswhen you can.
But we definitely tried toprioritize let's let's get the
(22:15):
filming done as soon as we canand then do the editing and post
, cause the post does take moretime.
Um, so I think we had, I thinkwe did like two days of filming
and three days of post, and itwas still exhausting and
stressful, but we got it to work.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
And I think that for a five-day film challenge that's
probably the best way to go.
If you can get the filming donein the first two days, then you
have three days to add in themusic, to do any kind of ADR, to
do coloration, to do all ofthat stuff.
And I mean um post washappening right up till the very
last minute when we wereuploading oh yeah, we recorded
(22:53):
the audio description itselflike hours before the deadline.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
So I was over at the the guy's uh place he has his
own like vo booth um, uh,jonathan, our friend, um, and he
was recording it and he waslike, okay, yeah, I can get this
to you and uh pretty soon.
And I'm like, oh yeah, can Ijust like get it now on a thumb
drive because, like, we'resubmitting this in like an hour
or two.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So and we were pressed to the deadline, so,
like we were even emailing nickand we're like it's uploading
right now, because it was like 5, 58 or something that had to be
in by like 6 pm.
So, yeah, another funny thingabout this whole process too is,
admittedly, luke and I probablywaited longer than we should
have to assemble a productionteam together, and so it was
(23:40):
probably like a week before wewere supposed to shoot maybe
even a little less and we hadnothing in place in that realm
and I was a producer on thisfilm.
So I just started, like youknow, like texting and calling
everyone I knew to try to find,like you know, all the positions
and to try to find thelocations and everything.
But it was overwhelming andthere was a moment where I was
(24:03):
like I don't think this is goingto happen because Luke is too
busy and there just seems to beso many things that are not in
place, and so I was actuallywaiting for Luke to tell me that
he didn't have the time to dothis and I was totally ready to
pull the plug if he had broughtit up.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And ironically, I was thinking the exact same thing.
I was like I don't want to bethe one to tap out.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
But if Lee says hey, I don't think we can do this,
then I'm like okay, we're done,you know we're not doing it.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So this whole thing was a game of chicken.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, exactly yeah, I think that this is all so great
for our listeners to hear andfor me even I'm sitting here
just soaking it in because thereis advice that you gave, things
like shoot early because youneed time for post.
And me as an actor, even thoughI'm, you know, I'm a little bit
more connected to the otherside of things at this point.
(25:01):
I still had not even thought ofthat.
I was like oh yeah you shoot forfive days, it'll be fun no, you
don't shoot for five days andalso, people will have jobs.
People still have to work.
Even though this is a filmchallenge and it was only five
days, you were still shootingall night and working all day,
but it's still possible to makean award winning film.
(25:23):
And that's kind of the way wehave to do.
Things at first is just, wehave to make it work.
But it's also possible to makeit work.
I think a lot of people getdiscouraged because they they
don't think they have time to dosomething that's going to be
any good, and so they let thatbe the answer, they let that be
the no and they take the L onthat and they're like oh gosh, I
(25:43):
can't be a filmmaker.
And they give up and go home.
You don't have to do that.
You can't be a filmmaker, andthey give up and go home.
You don't have to do that.
You can push through a few daysof really rough nights, work
your job, be sick and be tired,but you could win.
You can still make somethingreally good and that's great.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
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(26:50):
quote.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Lee, you were speaking about how you like to
go see the movies, and themovies sometimes are hit or miss
because of the devices.
Is this a device that you areborrowing from the theater with
the audio description on it?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Correct.
So when I go to a movie theaterI'll ask them for an audio
description device, and it usedto be this little like
rectangular box with a headsetand then they had to program it
on the right channel Once themovie starts.
Then it would sync up with thedigital track or I don't even
know how that technology worksand then in the headphones you
(27:28):
would hear the audio descriptiontrack along with the movie.
And I usually go to AMCtheaters because I have the AMC
A-list, which is awesome.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
AMC's taking over the world.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And I'm the customer they don't like, because I
actually use my three moviesmost every week and so I'm
getting a lot of value out of it.
But then they changed theirdevices, so now they kind of
look like this, like it's onthis huge stand, which I don't
really know why the stand needsto be there I always actually
unscrew it but it's like kind oflike a Android device or
(28:06):
something.
The new devices do seem to workbetter, because Luke's been
with me when it was like it's aquestion of is it going to work,
and there was a 50-50 chance,and half the time or most of the
time I used to go in justexpecting it not to work, and if
it worked it was an added bonus.
But now with the new devices,they're a lot more efficient
(28:27):
with them.
Yeah, it's great, honestly, andI'm really grateful that audio
description is available formost films.
I mean, when it comes tointernational markets, that's a
little more challenging, andwe're still working on getting
those films a little moreaccessible, because a lot of
international films don't alwayshave audio description and
(28:48):
those are the films that youknow have subtitles too.
So I can't even like justlisten to the dialogue and try
to pick up what I can and pieceeverything together.
If it's in, you know adifferent language yeah, I'm
here.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I'm here like how do we optimize this?
How do we make this easier?
Do you think that it is itwould be preferable, or would it
be more prohibitive, forsomeone with the mind and the
money to create a device that ispersonal, that you have, that
either you can go to the movietheater and you tell them which
film you're watching, and theycan.
(29:21):
They either give you a code orthey give you something, a chip
or something to upload, and thenyou know the device fits you,
then you know the device works.
Or is that more problematic?
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
So I think me and my podcast partner Alex we think
that a really good solutionwould be to have like an app
that you could, you know,download on your smartphone and
then you know when you go to themovie.
Like you said, there's a code,or you just check into the movie
that you're seeing at, you knowthe theater you're seeing it at
(29:56):
, and this would probably haveto be.
You know a theater you'reseeing it at and this would
probably have to be you know avery like theater chain specific
thing.
So, let's say, like in the AMCapp, for example, you know they
had a tab that saysaccessibility and then you check
into your movie or whatever,you type in a code and you let
them know, like you know whattheater you're in or something,
and then it would automaticallysync that audio description
(30:17):
track to the movie.
To me, that seems like the mostefficient way to make sure that
audio description is availableand working.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
That seems very possible too, and then you have
your AirPod and you head on inthe app.
Developers get to work.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Exactly exactly.
I've pitched that to a few umpeople, a few of the employees
at amc, and you know they thinkthat there's more efficient ways
to do things as well.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So we just all gotta start lobbying for this, because
how?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
important about accessibility is is what I think
the world needs to just startthinking about it, because I
think a lot, a big problem is alot of people just don't even it
doesn't cross their mindsbecause it doesn't cross their
paths.
And if everyone's thinkingabout it, the problems get
solved and the accessibility isa lot easier to find.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
One thing I will add to that, too, is you know, I am
not a disabled person, but I,you know, being friends with Lee
for a long time, I've gotten tosee, um, his unique perspective
on the world, and through,especially, experiencing film
for me, um, I think audiodescription as a filmmaker for
(31:30):
me is important because, as afilmmaker, you want your movie
to be experienced by as manypeople as possible, and so it's.
It's like if there's a wholegroup of people that aren't
getting to experience your film,like, you're missing out on the
opportunity to share somethingthat you're passionate about
with them.
And um, I think that that, withthis project was lee touched on
(31:55):
this a little bit earlier, but,like, it was so important to
like say, let's see how we canmake a film to bring together,
uh, everyone together toexperience this in the exact
same way that, like, I want thesighted viewer and the blind
viewer to be able to experiencethis film as closely, uh, to the
same as possible.
(32:16):
And, um, and so that that's'sdefinitely, I think, a goal for
me as a filmmaker, not that I'mgoing to make every film called
audio description, but just ingeneral, to think that I want my
movies to be seen by as manypeople as can be seen.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Absolutely and Fertiz for the documentary let's talk
about.
So Lee does not know the titleof this documentary.
Lee does not know the title,and can you tell us the acronym?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
It's M-L-I-S-C-U, so a friend of mine calls it
MILISCU.
I love it, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Like Maleficent.
Now let's talk about you as aas a director of this
documentary.
What is the reasoning behindnot allowing Lee to know the
title?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
The reasoning behind him not knowing the title is.
I thought if he knew the titlebecause there is some
information in there then itwould cause him, when we're
doing interviews, to kind ofskew things a certain way.
Then it would cause him, whenwe're doing interviews, to kind
of skew things a certain way.
And I want it to be veryauthentic and especially if
you're not a part of thedisabled community and more
specifically the visuallyimpaired community, I want them
(33:26):
to get a firsthand experience asto what are things like for an
entertainment professional whohas a disability.
So I felt it best that we, youknow, we keep certain things
from Lee.
With regards to the documentarySpecifically, we've even kept
questions.
You know I try not to do anypre-interviews unless it's time
(33:47):
sensitive, and then I'll say,okay, lee, we're going to talk
about this particular subjecttoday.
But the less that I feel heknows, the more authentic and
more real he can be, and that'swhat we want to say.
That's what I like watchingabout documentaries, you know, I
like seeing the person who'strue to their self, because
that's going to translate andcommunicate to the other
communities 100%, Lee.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
how do you feel about ?
Does that make you nervous,knowing that your response to
these questions that you don'tknow in advance is recorded for
posterity?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
You know it doesn't make me nervous, actually,
because, number one, there'salways editing, so I'm always
like protected by that.
And you know, number two, justlike being an actor, a director
and producer on projects.
I know the way that my mindthinks.
So if I know what I need toprepare, like my mind's
(34:41):
automatically going to go tothat.
And I mean even, like you know,I'll have conversations with
vertice about the behind thescenes stuff and I'm like, oh,
do we have this in place?
Do we have this in place?
And vertice is always like, lee, don't worry about this, just
focus on you being you.
And I really have to kind ofshut off that like director,
producer mindset and even, likeyou know, kind of the little
performative, like places that Icould be tempted to go when the
(35:05):
camera's on.
So it's been a very unique andspecial experience to be able to
do a documentary.
It definitely took someadjustment, you know, like you
know being used to being anactor, and now it's like, okay,
I'm not acting, but I am, youknow, I'm just being myself on
(35:27):
camera and it's like, how do Ido that?
Even though as an actor, that'swhat we should be doing anyway,
but it's like a littledifferent, because it's like me
in the most raw sense.
So that's been great, though,to be able to have a voice in
that way, and I want it to be asauthentic as possible too.
So I just told Vertise hit mewith anything, surprise me, and
(35:49):
you're going to get the mostauthentic reaction in that way
fantastic.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Now, we kind of skipped over this and I want, I
really want, to touch on it.
Before you know, we have towrap things up.
Um, you were talking about, uh,you a few days out from the
challenge, or a week out, youknow, having to crew up.
Let's talk about how you foundyour collaborators because, um,
you know, luke, you are agraduate of USC program.
Um, and then leave, been in theindustry working, you know like
(36:12):
working hard doing three scenesa night at writers uh, writer's
stuff.
So I just want to talk about howdid you crew up, like who was
like the first person you called?
How did you come together withthe crew?
Had you worked with them before?
Things like that?
Speaker 5 (36:24):
I.
I'm trying to think of who thefirst people.
I guess it was adrian it wasadrian that was the first person
that we called or that I calledyeah, so adrian is the, the
actor that plays um lewis.
Who's's the weirded out?
Co-worker.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
And you know, he did such a good job in like such a
small bit there, but we actuallyasked him to act in it.
And then, on top of that, hejust started like helping out,
like oh, let me find this personto help Gaff and do this and
that, and we were just like, ohwow, this guy is awesome.
So we ended up giving him anassociate producer credit
(37:00):
because he just put so much workinto it.
But it was definitely a teameffort where we're all looking
out to all our networks liketrying to do this on no budget.
Where can we get a location?
Who can do this and that?
And I was really shocked howwell everything came together
(37:20):
and we honestly a lot of us toowere working with people we
hadn't met before that were justreally passionate about what we
were doing and the story wewere telling.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
So I'll let Lee add to that.
Yeah, I mean, in addition tothat, I guess like I'm an
extrovert and so I guess theadvantage of being an extrovert
is being able to create a largenetwork of people from different
circles.
So I just started blasting outtext and blasting out phone
calls to people.
I'm like, hey, I know that thisis really last minute because
(37:50):
we're shooting next week, butwould you be interested in
helping us with this project andkind of explaining what the
disability challenge was, whatthe significance of it was?
And you know, just through that, you know, even if people
weren't able to help out, theywere like let me see if I can
find someone for you and theywould reach out to other people
on our behalf.
(38:10):
And I mean, truthfully, we justfelt very supported and just
very encouraged by the level ofsupport that we were getting
from everyone that really wantedto help us out, even if they
weren't able to find anyone, thefact that they were willing to
do it and that they cared enoughabout this project.
(38:31):
They saw the vision behind theDisability Film Challenge.
You know that was verymeaningful.
The Disability Film Challenge.
You know that was verymeaningful and a really cool
side story.
That kind of ties into me goingto the movie theater and getting
audio description devices isone of the guys.
His name is John.
He did Boom Mike for us on thereally late night shoot on a
Thursday night.
(38:51):
I actually met him back inDecember at AMC the Grove and he
was just one of those guys that, like, was helping me get an
audio description device.
He worked at AMC and he waswalking me to the theater and
then we just became friendsafter that because we realized
that you know, we were both inthe acting world and stuff and
(39:11):
I'm like let's stay in touch.
So then I reached out to him tosee if he knew anyone that
could help us crew and he waslike I really want to be a part
of this project.
Is there anything I can do?
Like I'll do anything at all,and he was just so gung ho to be
on board.
But it's like it was so coolthough, because it's like you
know, it's like those are thekind of like fun little moments.
(39:33):
I guess that can happen, youknow, even just from going to an
AMC theater and meeting anemployee and talking to them as
they're helping me get to mytheater.
It was, it was great, buteveryone I can't emphasize this
enough.
Everyone on our crew and in ourcast was truly amazing people
to work with.
They were so humble, they werejust so encouraging, so willing
(39:56):
to just do what needed to bedone, and me and Luke have said
this time and time again that,you know, the best film award is
shared with everyone involved.
It's not just about me and Luke, it's about everyone involved,
because had one less soundperson been there, one less
person been there to do any kindof setup, it's like we would
have been further behind and wewouldn't have had time to finish
(40:17):
everything we needed to.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
If I could add one thing and I think the real
catalyst to this is Nick NovickiI mean him starting this award
show, or starting this challenge, I should say, is really
amazing for the communitybecause it's grown.
Every year it becomes more andmore impactful and every year
there are people who are not inthe disabled community who are
learning about this for thefirst time and who are saying
(40:41):
you know what, maybe I would,I'm going to consider hiring
someone in the community.
So big shout out to Nick forstarting this and to the
Easterseals as well.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
It's changed our lives, Like that's for sure.
We met Nick.
I went up to Nick at Hollyshorts last year.
I used to listen to him on theNate land podcast and I was like
I never come up to anyone, butlike I just want to say you're
hilarious.
And he was like what are youdoing here?
Speaker 6 (41:06):
Like he was very nice , but he was like what are you
doing at Holly shorts and I why?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
are you here?
No, he was like what are and beour first interview?
Cause we had, like I think, ahundred interviews, 130
interviews going, but we werelike, do you want to be the
first one?
We're just setting up?
So he was like yeah, and so Itook him up and he talked about
the disability film challengeand and that's how we ended up
partnering to do over a hundredhours of education with the
community this year and it'schanged the way we approach
(41:31):
filmmaking, it's changed the waywe talk about filmmaking, it's
changed the way we would crew up, that we would try and tell
stories, because not only werewe able to teach the community,
but we were able to learn a lotas well from the community, not
only about how to make our filmsets more accessible, but also
that we're missing out ontelling a lot of stories, like a
lot of stories that have notbeen told, because the way of
(41:52):
viewing and seeing the worldaround you is different.
And you know we talk aboutrepresentation, but, um, there's
not enough disability, um,represented in the way that
scripts are being written or theway that we are shooting or the
way that we are describing it.
You know, and and so it haschanged the world for us as well
and and you know, going intothis year and then you know the
(42:13):
future years, we're going to befocusing a lot more on that and
partnering with Nick for sure.
So I love that you mentionedthat, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I also think that it's, um, a cool trick of the
trade that we can pass on to ourlisteners.
Um, we, we talk a lot about howimportant it is to find your
community here, because peoplewant to work with people.
They like people often rehirethe people they know they like
to work with.
And also it has been mentioneda couple of times on different
(42:48):
podcasts that we've been guestson that it is scary to hire cold
.
It's scary to hire people towork on a crew if you've never
met them before or if you don'thave a recommendation from
someone they know who will speakfor them.
And that's part of what makesit seem really difficult to get
into the industry is, if youhaven't worked before, nobody
can speak for you.
This is such a unique challengebecause the community is so
(43:14):
special.
The community is just justincredible and the way that
everyone looks out for eachother and the way that people
are willing and just so down towork with you and do whatever
they need to do to make yourstory shine, that you can trust
that anybody who has worked in,worked on a film in this
(43:35):
challenge is going to be someonewho's going to be an asset to
your set, and I think that's areally cool thing to be able to
say that you can just asksomeone have you ever worked on
a film for the Disability FilmChallenge?
And if they say yes, you knowthey'll be an amazing hire a
dream hire Five days of gruelingwork to make a really cool film
(43:56):
that no one has said or heardor uh tried to portray before,
so I think it's so wonderfulpart of a community that is
focused on accessibility, sothey're going to do whatever
needs to be done to make itpossible for everyone to tell
their story yes, so nick isalways getting shout outs
everywhere because he's sowonderful, but, um, but I am,
I'm so happy, I'm gonna takethis, I am, I am so yeah, kind
(44:19):
of yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I'm always like it doesn't matter, because I'm a DP
and I'm like sound whatever.
Sorry, um, but uh, I, lee, I amexactly like you.
I love making friends in likethe greatest places that you
would never normally make, likea collaborator friend.
You know, and I absolutelyadore that you kind of brought
someone on that was like I wouldlove to be a part of that and I
(44:42):
love that you stayed in contactwith me and stayed in touch.
And you know, I think we alwayshave to remember that
like-minded collaborators cancome from everywhere and we just
have to be open-minded to kindof bringing them a part of our
life and our network.
Thank you guys so much for beinga part of this episode with us.
We are so excited to not onlyplug Lee's podcast and share
(45:03):
that link in the bio, but alsoplug audio description as well
as your wonderful documentarycoming out M-L-I-S-C-U.
Now, before we head out today,can you guys tell us where this
film will be screening so thatpeople can check it out, where
they can find it?
And then as well, if you'relooking for where people can
donate to funding thedocumentary or the feature,
(45:25):
things like that.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Yeah, so as part of part of winning best film, is
that we're also going to be putinto the Holly Shorts Film
Festival, into the HollySchwartz Film Festival I do not
know the dates on any of these,but Holly Schwartz, I believe,
heartland and New Filmmakers, la, and then, of course, we're
(45:46):
submitting it to you knowanywhere that we think is going
to be a good fit as well.
The festival world is daunting,but it will be out there and
hopefully we can share it with alot more people and you can
also watch Audio Descriptionright now on the Disability Film
Challenge YouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I think if you just go to YouTube and you type in
Disability Film Challenge AudioDescription, you will find it
there, because that's how I'veaccessed it.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, same, you can just watch.
Oh my gosh, you can just watchit.
Okay, oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
And uh, you know it's definitely better to watch in
the theater you know, so yeah ifyou can go to a film festival,
watch it there and you get tomeet the filmmakers.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
You get to meet leon luke and vertice.
Now vertice um.
How can we learn more about thedocumentary or what are next
steps?
How can we follow along?
Speaker 4 (46:35):
thank you for asking.
Uh, so yes, we are currentlyshooting.
We have not startedpost-production, so the best way
to find out more about thedocumentary, or if you're
interested in working with us,please hit me up on social media
.
Uh, you can find my informationin the chat, I guess with you
guys in the description.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Can you also give a shout out to what you're um?
Where to find you on Instagram?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
Uh, I would say Facebook.
So on Facebook please.
So it would be under my nameVertice V-I-R-T-I-C.
Emil E-M-I-L Brown, b-r-o-w-n.
And again, welcome all.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Great Um.
Thank you guys so much forjoining us and we can't wait to
have you back, Probably at Hollyshorts, If we end up partnering
with them this is a plug forTheo and Daniel, because we're
going to have them on the couchsoon.
Thanks everybody, bye.
Speaker 5 (47:22):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
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