August 5, 2023 • 34 mins
In the second half of the show, we discuss the strained relationship between Black people and Jews that has seen new stressors in recent years. Our guest Ami Horowitz helps us identify potential sources of this strain as well as potential solutions and starting points for conversations between our two tribes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now watch showing my mic back like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We can strikes from headquarters behind in the If.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
You just tuning in the civic cipher, I'm your host.
Ramsey's job is rams John, I am q lord.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
You are still hopefully tuned and d are uh And
we have a special guest on the show with this today,
Amy Horowitz.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're having a ball talking about some things that really
need to be talked about. And obviously we're going to
get back to him in just a second, but I
also want you to stick around for the uh the
Way Black History Fact. We're going to spend this part
of the show talking about relationships, particularly the relationship between
Jewish people and Black people. On this show, we stand
(00:49):
on the truth that Jewish people are our brothers and
our sisters, and we feel like it's necessary to have
a conversation that is intent on healing some of the
fraying that has taken place over the last couple of years.
And again, Amy's going to join us for that, and
then for our way Black History in fact, we're talking
(01:11):
about the origin story of the NAACP. But first and foremost,
it's time to discuss ba Ba becoming a better ally
BABA and Today's BABA is sponsored by Major Threads. For
the finest in men's sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com and for
today's BABA, we're going to be checking out Yahoo News.
(01:32):
The headline reads how reparations pioneer Evanston, Illinois is rolling
out payments to black citizens. I'll read a bit. The
city started dispersing reparations payments to locals in twenty twenty
two in the form of vouchers for housing and since
and has since expanded to include cash. As talk of
reparations ripples through the federal and local governments nationwide, Evanston,
(01:54):
Illinois has become the first city in the United States
to put money in the hands of black residents affected
by years of discrimination. Quote. I'm excited to see that
over one hundred municipalities have followed in their inspiration and
what's happened in Evanstone. We all look forward to seeing
more legislation put into law, then into practice, and then dispersed.
(02:14):
Robin Sue Simmons, the founder and executive director of First
Repair and chairperson of the city's reparations committee, told Yahoo News. Simmons,
a former alder woman in Evanstone, which has a sixteen
percent black population and is located about twelve miles north
of Chicago, has been a pioneer in bringing reparations to
one of the black communities affected by the aftermath of
(02:35):
slavery in the United States. Quote. Most federal policy is
implemented with a spark in a local community, a grassroots leader.
Every other area of government we look at hyper locally
and then it trickles up to our congressional leader, she said.
But Simmons recalled just having her own city in mind
when she started out the journey of repairing harm to
(02:55):
the dwindling number of black residents in the community. Obviously
there's a lot more huge and a valid reason why
they undertook this endeavor. So again, Yahoo, you can check
it out, but we wanted to shout out credit where
it's due. That is becoming a better ally in our opinion.
Now it's time to move on.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Amy Listen, I appreciate your input and everything that you
said in the first half of the show. Feel free
to dance back and forth with your with the work
that you do professionally and the UH topic that we
want to address now. But we feel like again it's
(03:36):
necessary to have this conversation. A little bit of background
from me.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
One of my best friends in high school since passed away.
His name was Ari Block Ari, and so Ari Ami,
you know we have For those that don't know, we
had an issue with an email earlier and I instead
of typing Amy, I typed in Ari, you know. But
that's uh?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Is it? Is it?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I believe it might be. But anyway, I learned at
a young age how beautiful Jewish culture is. I learned
about the commonalities between Jewish people and black people. And
I learned that if I wanted to play basketball, if
(04:26):
I wanted to listen to Bone Thugs and Harmony CDs,
if I wanted to, you know, go skating, because I
was a skater. For those that don't know, in high school,
my Jewish friends were just as likely to engage in
my favorite activities as anyone else. And fortunately, my high
(04:46):
school was very, very close to a prominent Jewish community,
and so there was a decent number of Jewish people there.
And this is not the experience for a lot of
people because there are not as many Jewish people as
there are Christian people globally. It's just not a big thing,
and yet Jewish people have sort of become like almost
(05:09):
like a boogieyman in recent years. And I would like
for you to speak to that first, you know, how
does that feel? And as someone who is Jewish and
from a Jewish community, how does that feel? And then
you know, talk to us. Do you feel like it's
based in reality? Do you feel it's warranted? You know,
on and on and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
I may have a couple thoughts on the topic.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, well please, I'd imagine.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So, so, to me, the apotheosis of Jewish Black relations
did not come when Jews were marching at Selma. It
was when I saw the Beastie Boys and run DMC
at the Greek play together. That was the height of
Black Jewish relations.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Man.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So it's so interesting. Yeah, Anty Semitism is on the rise,
no question about it. Unlike what most people have said,
it did not begin its rise in with with Trump
coming in, although it continued the rise during Trump's reign
happened maybe five or six years earlier than that happened
to be during Obama, but had nothing to do with
(06:18):
Obama's happening. That was who was the president when the
rise began. Statistically speaking, so any Semitism is interesting. So
when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles
in the eighties, there was a lot of any Semitism.
My synagogue or my Jewish school was routinely broken into,
(06:40):
was trashed, was graffiti with with with swastikas. I would
say at least once or twice a year. It would
happen to either my synagogue or my school every year.
I never made the news. It just was a relatively
common occurrence in Los Angeles and I imagine other cities
in the country. Otherwise, a kid, your perspective is local.
It's not global at all. Now. At the time, the
(07:04):
anti Semitism that was occurring was exclusively from the hard right.
It was exclusively from skinheads, Neo Nazis. The guys that
I fought with routinely were always skinheads and white supremacists.
And then what happened was sometimes in the late eighties
early nineties, it kind of magically all went away and
(07:26):
you rarely heard of any Semitism. Again, it didn't really occur,
and a something did happen, if a synagogue was defaced,
it made news because it was so rare, and this
like Goldilocks period when it went away for maybe two decades,
maybe a little bit less than that, maybe fifteen years,
And now it's come back, and it's come back in
a more virulent form because now it's from the It's
(07:50):
still part of the hard right culture, right the extreme
right culture, but it's now also become part of the
extreme left culture. You see it from both ends. Ironically,
I spent a lot of time in any Semites. I
speak with a lot of them. Oftentimes I interview them
and I'm talking from KKK. People were par the nation
of Islam both sides. And what's interesting is they both
(08:14):
If you ask them why they like Jews, you often
hear the same responses. It's really interesting. I've always thought
politics is not a linear line. I've always believed politics
is a circle. If you go so far and left,
so far to the right, you end up coming back
to the same place. I think history has proven that.
And uh yeah, you see a lot of the same
(08:35):
responses when it comes to why don't you like Jews?
Jews control the media, Jews control economy, control armies, same
kind of clap track you heard throughout the centuries of
jew hatred. It's fascinating, but it's more virulent because it's
now coming from both ends. And that's not a pincer
move you want to be involved in. And I think
(08:57):
that my oftentimes Jews tend to be left of center. Right,
Jews tend to vote Democrat, not dissimilar from black people.
And it's because and I understand why, right, I vote
more Republican Democratic, I voted, I've voted. I work for
a Democrat. But I understand why because Jews look at
(09:18):
everything through the prism of social justice because of our history,
which I get right, the the the amount of oppression
that we have felt over the centuries has made us
acutely aware of issues around social justice, which, by the way,
is another reason why Jews were in the forefront of
the issues for against racism. And I'm trying to help
(09:41):
black people lift themselves because we understood their history. Well,
we lived that history in a lot of cases, not
just in this country but globally, and we had done
better for ourselves and we wanted to make sure other
people didn't have to experience what we experienced as much
as we could. And that's why. And so Democrats, and again,
(10:02):
if I'm going on too long coming out.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
No, no, it's your floor.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
So Democrats or Jews were always Republican voters because they
thought the Republican Party after Lincoln was the party of
social justice for obvious reasons. And then with Franklin Roosevelt
it switched like a light switch. They all moved Republican
Democrat have never looked back since then. You know, I
would say roughly a little bit lower than the black community,
probably around eighty percent of Jews vote Democrat. And that's why.
(10:31):
So it is interesting to see any Semitism rear its
ugly head from both sides, left and right.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
You mentioned earlier that left of center, center, and right
of center have far more in common than their differences, Ramses,
and I believe that that is true across political lines,
across ethnicities, that in general, people have far more in
common than the things that we highlight to divide ourselves,
(11:00):
or that the things that have been highlighted for us
to keep us divided is really how we view it. So,
you know, thank you for pointing that out, because we
believe that's something that we believe is true across politics,
across ideologies, and across ethnicities and you also point out
the extremes in that circle, and that was a I
(11:20):
think that was a great mental picture for our audience
as well. You know, as you keep going so far extreme,
those extremes end up with just as much in common
as the rest of us. So in either direction too far,
you're kind of going the wrong way at a certain point.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
With regards to.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
The most recent rise and anti semitism and that rhetoric
by some popular or you know, need I say, celebrity
African Americans, what do you think has led to that
type of ideology and it being expressed out loud in
(12:00):
the media over the past year, you know, you know,
mister West and his deaf Con three and the promoting
of some anti semitic views and some films on Amazon
by you know, a professional basketball player. What type of
things do you think stoked that or led to the
popularity of a seemingly anti semitic view from a generation
(12:23):
of black people that we hadn't seen before.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, and it's unfortunately it's it goes far wider than that.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I bet it does.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yeah, there's there's a lot I mean, there's there's a
lot of names that people often probably don't even know
ice Cube is an example that comes to mind, who
said horrifically and semitic things, promoted an Semitic memes, has
even attacked Black I mean I remember him. He attacked
Kream dul Jabbar with an a Semitic slur. Oddly enough,
(12:53):
because last time I checked, Cream wasn't Jewish. I wish
it was, but but it's not. Nick Cannon, I mean
big Nick, big big names who are sterling sharp, you know,
Stephen Jackson. Anyways, I I don't go through the list.
So there's a lot of commonality between between them. And
(13:17):
I hate to say it, but a lot of it
comes from the Nation of Islam, I gotta say. And
I think that the support of the Nation of Islam,
particularly it's leader Lewis Ferrikhon. You see a commonality among
all the people who have said these things, who had
then spoken about Lewis Ferrikhon in a very positive light,
(13:39):
and they've pup they've parroted much of the words Farakhon
has used and not in the Holocaust, calling Jews roaches,
saying Jews are parasites, Jews control all these these these
are these are oftentimes script from Lewis Farakhon, and I
think that the other problem is that we've got we've
(14:00):
let them get away with it. And I always look,
I always like to say, let's look in the mirror,
or let's put the shoe on the other foot and
and and see, because I think that's very clarifying. If you,
for example, would say, if a white person would say
those awful things but instead of just changed you for
black person, that person would rightly be be vilified and
(14:23):
will probably never work again and or or certainly not
work for a very long time unless until penance was made.
But a lot of times these guys aren't made to
face the same mus Yeah, there might be a couple,
Oh he's got to apologize or you know, say something.
The ADL organization, by the way, I don't particularly care for.
And yeah, they all went through their penance of just
(14:45):
say hey, sorry if I offended you, or you know,
I'm learning more about this, but it's not real, let's
be honest. I hope it was, and I hope some
of them have learned. But I think a lot of
it comes from that. You know. What's also interesting, there's
there's a there's this move to make Jews white people.
This is something that that this is not a it's
(15:07):
not a new thing, but it's it's it's it's kind
of come back to where it was. I remember James Baldwin,
the great, great, great Black writer, wrote this essay on
any Semitism, and what he ended up saying was is
even back then I was written in the sixties. He
talked about the high levels of any Semitism the black community.
But what he said was, it's really more is Jewish
(15:30):
people as a proxy for white people. It's really a
hatred of white people. But Jewish people just tend to
they tend to be the grosser at the time in
Harlem where they tended to be the landlord, and and
they kind of used as a proxy. And the danger
of doing that is this, first of all, it's just
just factually false.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Jews come in all shape, sizes and colors. In my
personal family, I have people who are black, not not
brown black people my family who are dark brown. Personally
am a person of color. My mother comes from Iron.
We come of all shape sizes, racial ethnicities. So we're
clearly not white people necessarily. Some of us are white,
(16:13):
but not all of us. But the reason why it's
done I Remember I'm going thinking about Whoope Goldberg on
the View made this point and I thought it was
really dangerous where she was talking about the Holocaust and said,
well it was y'all white people kind of fighting amongst yourselves.
Now it was offensive in a couple levels. First of all,
come dismissing the holocausts you all people were fighting esach other.
(16:33):
And second of all, the fact that she made all
Jews as white people. And the reason why it's done
is it's you know, you guys believe the term intersectionality.
Do you guys know that term? Yes, yes, So it's
I think it's because of the idea of intersectionality, where
if because you have the intersectionality is kind of created
(16:54):
as a first of all, intersectionality something I have a
lot of issues with, primarily because it's about the connection,
the connective tissue of victimhood and also based on really
economic power. So you put white people on the top
of that pyramid, put black people that say, at the
bottom of the pyramid, and you say, well, if you
put Jews of white people, then therefore it's okay if
(17:17):
we speak polly of them, because they're really part of
the intersectional oppression that we face.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So how about this? Yeah, if I'm in of course,
now there's going to be a lot of people who
will listen to this and appreciate the insight and appreciate
how it feels to be a Jewish man experiencing this.
I will affirm again you are my brother, and I
(17:44):
appreciate that you came on here. But I wouldn't be
doing my job if I did not try to ask
questions that perhaps our listeners who are trying to learn
more would would ask. And so allow me to play
devil's advocate, forgive the expression. So for a black person,
(18:05):
the experience of interacting with an individual who lacks melanin
is a unique experience. You lack melanin that means white, right, right,
or a person who's white passing. This is what I'm
This is what I'm saying, So white or white adjacent, right.
(18:27):
This is a person that if you know nothing else
about me, you do know that I'm black. I wear
it all over my whole body, right, So my experience
is going to be very different. I cannot hide it.
My hair grows this way, my skin looks like this.
This is who I am. You can tell that I'm
black from across the street a Jewish person. You cannot
tell that a person is Jewish from across the street.
In other words, Whoopie Goldberg an example that you mentioned,
(18:50):
Whoopy Goldberg is a Jewish woman, but you would not
know that unless she said it to you, or unless
you observed her worshiping or partaking in Jewish customs. But
you do know full well to sheose a black woman,
and that visual in many instances where she lacks power,
(19:10):
will elicit and approach to her or a response to her,
some of which could conceivably be negative, and those of
us in the no refer to that as racism, and
so anti semitism. Again, my listeners may make this connection,
and I'm asking for clarification from you. Anti Semitism is
(19:33):
something that is not by from that vantage point, not as.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
What was that visual.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
It's not as visual, right. In other words, you have
to invite someone in to know this part about you,
and then they can choose to discriminate based on that information.
Whereas people who've already made up their minds about how
they feel about black people can spot black people out
of a lineup. I use that term almost intentionally and deliberately,
so your thoughts on a person who might push back
(20:09):
and say, well, you know, some of this stuff is
based in reality at least to some degree.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, I mean look not to say that. Obviously a
black person and a Jewish white person look very dissimilar
the old like I would look. It is visual when
it comes to any Semitism to a certain extent, the
extent that Jewish people not all the time, but there
are a lot of Jews on Saturday, I wear a yamica.
(20:36):
I am very visually Jewish.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Sure, sure ari war one every day there.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
If you're a Hasidic Jew, you look very visually Jewish.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Absolutely, Now we.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Can shed that, obviously you cannot. But still there is
a visual component to it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
So for example, when you see Jews being beat up
in Brooklyn, it's oftentimes the Jews are being almost exclusively
are the ones who look Jewish and they're Hasidic. They're
wearing the garb because a person who's attacking them visually
identified that he wasn't invited to their home and then
realized they were Jewish, or got to a conversation we
have to do it. We're punched. They were attacked and
(21:14):
beaten because they were visually Jewish, so not that. Yeah,
so I agree there's a difference, but there's also similarity to.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It, sure, and I believe that you're right. There's a
lot more similarities there. And really this conversation is meant
to do some healing. Another thing I want to point out,
if I may, is that the Nation of Islam, obviously
here we have to deal with all different facets of
black life, and everyone who we believe is marginalized, we
(21:47):
do our best to share this space with him. So
this includes our Asian, American and Pacific Islander brothers and sisters,
our lgbt Q I A plus brothers and sisters and
on and on. You you realize the list. And when
we do our peek, you do not have the Sikhs on.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Do not care about the seeks.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
The Sikhs were out there helping us protest in twenty
twenty with the turbans and everything, and so those are
our brothers and our sisters as well, and when they
need us, we will be here for them. But I
do want to ask you this while, and we just
have about a minute or so left for you to respond.
But I recognize that there is a deep rooted history
(22:25):
between Muslims and Jewish people that exists long before this
chapter in American history, and in fact, I believe the
origin might have been in the Middle East somewhere, and
perhaps there's still some fighting going on there. I mostly
focus on American issues relative to black people, so I
(22:47):
wouldn't profess to know much about Middle East policy. However,
do you believe that the connection between Blacks and Jews
is made through the nation of Islam and originates in
the Middle East? In other words, there's there's some lineage there. No, okay,
(23:08):
so explain.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
It just had No, I don't. I don't think that.
What you're asking is that if if the the the
any Semitism coming from the black community originates and stems
from the conflict in the Middle East.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, that more or less? No, No, No, okay, I
mean I think.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
There's Look, there's there's there's overlap, and certainly when it
comes to Lewis Ferrikhn there might be some of that,
although I don't know, to be honest, I don't know
if his any Semitism is born from his from is
from his Islam, or just from his bigot tree. I
don't the truth is. I don't know the answer to that.
(23:47):
In fact, if I ever had a chance to sit
down with him, and I would, I would love.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
To figure that out.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I would love to unpack that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Listen, I tell you what, We're gonna leave it right
here just because we're gonna move on, but we are
going to manifest We're gonna radiate some positivity in your direction.
Hopefully you'll get a chance to talk to him, because
I believe that that's a conversation that we all could
benefit from, and certainly we would love to know how
to heal this relationship. But for now, it's time to
(24:15):
move on to our way, Black History Fact. And so
today's way Black History Fact is as always sponsored by
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and we are going
to be talking about a long history American Jews and
the NAACP. This writing comes from Rabbi Lance J. Sussman, PhD.
(24:41):
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, or
the NAACP and American Jews have a long shared history.
The anti Semitic posting by Minister Rodney Muhammad, head of
the Philadelphia chapter of the NAACP, has thrown relations between
American Jews and African Americans and the NAACP into disarray. First,
(25:03):
and unequivocally, Minister Mohammed, Well, this is his asking. He
needs to resign his invoking of anti Semitic Nazi meme.
It was inexcusable and betrays the mission and goals of
the NAACP. I would tend to agree with that in
my opinion, the NAACP at the national level needs to
secure this resignation and move any doubt as to their
(25:24):
organization's philosophy moving forward. Second, the NAACP needs who affirm
its historic mandate of fighting all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Again,
I agree with that the mission of the NAACP, in
their own words is to quote secure the political, educational, social,
economic equality of rights in order to eliminate race based
discrimination and ensure the health and well being of all persons.
(25:45):
The American Jewish NAACP cooperation must continue and maintain its
extraordinary legacy of dialogue and I love that art all right. Fourth,
the Philadelphia Jewish community needs to recognize the size and
strength and continue and growth of our local African American
Muslim community, the largest in the United States, and work
to build bridges between us them and others. I think
(26:07):
it's important to keep the current controversy and historical perspective,
as there are forces in both communities which want to
break down the historic ties between American Jews and African
Americans and empower anti integrationists and anti a cultural and
a culture. How would I say a culture, a cultural,
a culturistionist ideas. I believe that's all I said. Forgive
(26:30):
me on both sides of the debate. That would be
a mistake, that would be a tragedy for Americans, Blacks, Jews,
and American itself. At the same time, we need to
appreciate there are difference, differences and tensions between Jews and
Blacks and the United States, and at the same time,
we can and must work together for the benefit of
our country. All right, here we go. The NAACP was
(26:54):
founded in nineteen oh nine in reaction to a terrible
race riot the year before in Springfield, Illinois. Among the
original founders of the NAACP were Henry Moskowitz and a
Romanian Jew who worked as the executive director of the
Broadway League in New York. Moskowitz was joined in support
(27:14):
of the NAACP by Rabbi Emil Hirsch, son of Keys
Rabbi the late Samuel Hirsch, Julius Rosenwald, father of Keyes
Lessing Rosenwald Jacob Schiff, was the leading Jewish philanthropist of
the Progressive era and the well respected spring Arm family
(27:34):
to this day. The spring Arn Medal is one of
the highest awards given by the NAACP to those who
best exemplify its goals and values. The young Rabbi Stephen Wise,
a leading voice of American Zionism prior to World War Two,
supported the NAACP and via W. E. E. D. Boyd
the Niagara Movement. Lillian Ward of Settlement House fame also
(27:55):
supported the newly founded NAACP. But perhaps the most fruitful
collaboration between the American Jewish community, and in particular the
reform movement in Judaism and the NAACP, took place in
the early nineteen sixties. In nineteen sixty two, the Union
for American Hebrew Congregations UAHC now the Union for Reform
(28:19):
Judaism RJ, purchased the old Ecuadorian Embassy at twenty twenty
seven Massachusetts Avenue in Washington, d C. Northwest and launched
its Religious Action Center there nineteen sixty four, with reform
NAACP leaders and others huddled around the table. The historic
(28:40):
Civil Rights Act was written. The following year, the same
coalition produced the Voting Acts Right, the Voting Rights Act
of nineteen sixty five, which was guided by the Supreme
Court in twenty thirteen. In other words, the most progressive
social and civil legislation in American history was born of
NAACP dh American Jewish cooperation. It is important to note
(29:04):
that the seed money for the rac was given by
a reformed jew, Kiv Kaplan, who passed in nineteen seventy five.
The s gift was given in nineteen fifty five. Caplan,
a Bostonian, joined the NAACP at nineteen thirty two at
the age of twenty eight, was elected to its national
board in nineteen fifty four, and from nineteen sixty five
(29:26):
to nineteen eighty five served as president of the NAACP.
He marched and was jailed with doctor Martin Luther King
Junior on many occasions, including the Edmund Pettis Bridge crossing
in Selma, Alabama. Curiously, on the back of his business card,
Kaplan always had the words keep smiling printed. There is
a saying to the effect that things were never as
(29:48):
good between blacks and Jews as Jewish liberals would have it,
nor were they as bad as Black nationalists alleged tensions
between American Jews and American Blacks are nothing new. As
a child, again, this is Rabbi Lance J. Sussimon's words.
As a child, I heard endless coded comments about blacks
and was aware that Jews were paradoxically part of the
(30:09):
white flight movement, just as they were largely pro civil rights. Later,
I learned that Doctor King Representative, Doctor King, Representative John
Lewis and other African American leaders were hard pressed by
Black nationalists for their integrationist views. But these tensions are
secondary to the need for cooperation in pursuit of civil
(30:31):
equality in the United States. Hopefully, at these difficult times,
American Jews and leaders of the NAACP will remember our
joint heritage, our larger common purpose, and together with Kybe
Kaplan and others, will find a way back to marching
and smiling together. And it's signed Shabat Shalon Shaloon Rabbi
Lance J. Sussimon, PhD. So we're almost done, But any
(30:57):
thoughts on today's way black history fact from you, Amy.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
No I found I found it fascinating. Yeah, I think
that's uh, this is is what we're talking about, exactly
what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, and then go ahead please.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yeah, I would say that that the the Jews were
were for the reasons I mentioned, were involved from from
from the get go in the civil rights movement and
and and to and to their eternal credit, they did that.
I'm proud of that fact that that legacy. Uh, it
heartens me every day when I hear you say it
with the pride that you did, I feel something. I
(31:35):
get a little emotional.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Makladia good, good, good, Well, you know, and I do
want to mention this and I would I love your
thoughts if you have any c But you know, I mean,
I heard, I heard the comment about the a d L.
And we have a well let's call it a budding
relationship with the Anti Defamation League. And so our hope
is that you know that there are some repairs that
(31:58):
can take place in the Jewish community as well as
some repairs that take place in the Black community amongst ourselves,
and you know, hopefully we'll continue to have conversations like
this and move the narrative forward. How about that?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
I loved it. Man. Listen. Look, your podcast maybe not
be the greatest podcast in the country, but for sure
you guys have the coolest names and all the podcasts
in all the land.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
We'll take that. We'll take that well. On the heels
of that, we'd like to thank you all for tuning
into another episode of Civic Cipher once again. I'm your host,
Rams's job he is, and.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I am q Ward. Thank you guys again for your support, like, share, comment,
give us a review. We do this as a labor
of love, so your support and your sharing of our
content means more than you could ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Absolutely, once again, I want to thank our special guest
coming all the way across a couple of bridges to
have some really interesting and informative conversations with us today,
Amy Horowitz. We can't thank you enough. For everyone else,
please do us a favor. Hit the website Civiccipher dot
com if you have any topics you wanted to cover,
if you want to make a donation, you want to
follow us on social media again, it's all civic site.
(33:05):
Freaking down of this in any previous episode and until
next week y'all. Peace peace, y'all, y yo.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
We had the li these brothers, a fabulous our lady
showing you where ROMB traveled this world speak tons from
sunlight to move busting on stage like Thenna fights the
b roll my mic back.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
You're like that joner list with journalist too.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
We can strike back all horb borders with orders from
headquarters behind in the beline sides up and the borders
with press passing.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We bring it to you as it happens.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
The streets love mocked on from music and rapping, the
street compland the slash week expando.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
You're gonna fight the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
What's happening? It's not you got any question to ask?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
If the news is just a TV show?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You're passing And this from a white wartime journalist headlines
wait God, previs and resist like
Speaker 4 (33:57):
This like what like this like they way the song
And now watch showing my mic back like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We can strikes from headquarters behind in the If.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
You just tuning in the civic cipher, I'm your host.
Ramsey's job is rams John, I am q lord.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
You are still hopefully tuned and d are uh And
we have a special guest on the show with this today,
Amy Horowitz.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're having a ball talking about some things that really
need to be talked about. And obviously we're going to
get back to him in just a second, but I
also want you to stick around for the uh the
Way Black History Fact. We're going to spend this part
of the show talking about relationships, particularly the relationship between
Jewish people and Black people. On this show, we stand
(00:49):
on the truth that Jewish people are our brothers and
our sisters, and we feel like it's necessary to have
a conversation that is intent on healing some of the
fraying that has taken place over the last couple of years.
And again, Amy's going to join us for that, and
then for our way Black History in fact, we're talking
(01:11):
about the origin story of the NAACP. But first and foremost,
it's time to discuss ba Ba becoming a better ally
BABA and Today's BABA is sponsored by Major Threads. For
the finest in men's sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com and for
today's BABA, we're going to be checking out Yahoo News.
(01:32):
The headline reads how reparations pioneer Evanston, Illinois is rolling
out payments to black citizens. I'll read a bit. The
city started dispersing reparations payments to locals in twenty twenty
two in the form of vouchers for housing and since
and has since expanded to include cash. As talk of
reparations ripples through the federal and local governments nationwide, Evanston,
(01:54):
Illinois has become the first city in the United States
to put money in the hands of black residents affected
by years of discrimination. Quote. I'm excited to see that
over one hundred municipalities have followed in their inspiration and
what's happened in Evanstone. We all look forward to seeing
more legislation put into law, then into practice, and then dispersed.
(02:14):
Robin Sue Simmons, the founder and executive director of First
Repair and chairperson of the city's reparations committee, told Yahoo News. Simmons,
a former alder woman in Evanstone, which has a sixteen
percent black population and is located about twelve miles north
of Chicago, has been a pioneer in bringing reparations to
one of the black communities affected by the aftermath of
(02:35):
slavery in the United States. Quote. Most federal policy is
implemented with a spark in a local community, a grassroots leader.
Every other area of government we look at hyper locally
and then it trickles up to our congressional leader, she said.
But Simmons recalled just having her own city in mind
when she started out the journey of repairing harm to
(02:55):
the dwindling number of black residents in the community. Obviously
there's a lot more huge and a valid reason why
they undertook this endeavor. So again, Yahoo, you can check
it out, but we wanted to shout out credit where
it's due. That is becoming a better ally in our opinion.
Now it's time to move on.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Amy Listen, I appreciate your input and everything that you
said in the first half of the show. Feel free
to dance back and forth with your with the work
that you do professionally and the UH topic that we
want to address now. But we feel like again it's
(03:36):
necessary to have this conversation. A little bit of background
from me.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
One of my best friends in high school since passed away.
His name was Ari Block Ari, and so Ari Ami,
you know we have For those that don't know, we
had an issue with an email earlier and I instead
of typing Amy, I typed in Ari, you know. But
that's uh?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Is it? Is it?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I believe it might be. But anyway, I learned at
a young age how beautiful Jewish culture is. I learned
about the commonalities between Jewish people and black people. And
I learned that if I wanted to play basketball, if
(04:26):
I wanted to listen to Bone Thugs and Harmony CDs,
if I wanted to, you know, go skating, because I
was a skater. For those that don't know, in high school,
my Jewish friends were just as likely to engage in
my favorite activities as anyone else. And fortunately, my high
(04:46):
school was very, very close to a prominent Jewish community,
and so there was a decent number of Jewish people there.
And this is not the experience for a lot of
people because there are not as many Jewish people as
there are Christian people globally. It's just not a big thing,
and yet Jewish people have sort of become like almost
(05:09):
like a boogieyman in recent years. And I would like
for you to speak to that first, you know, how
does that feel? And as someone who is Jewish and
from a Jewish community, how does that feel? And then
you know, talk to us. Do you feel like it's
based in reality? Do you feel it's warranted? You know,
on and on and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
I may have a couple thoughts on the topic.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, well please, I'd imagine.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So, so, to me, the apotheosis of Jewish Black relations
did not come when Jews were marching at Selma. It
was when I saw the Beastie Boys and run DMC
at the Greek play together. That was the height of
Black Jewish relations.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Man.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So it's so interesting. Yeah, Anty Semitism is on the rise,
no question about it. Unlike what most people have said,
it did not begin its rise in with with Trump
coming in, although it continued the rise during Trump's reign
happened maybe five or six years earlier than that happened
to be during Obama, but had nothing to do with
(06:18):
Obama's happening. That was who was the president when the
rise began. Statistically speaking, so any Semitism is interesting. So
when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles
in the eighties, there was a lot of any Semitism.
My synagogue or my Jewish school was routinely broken into,
(06:40):
was trashed, was graffiti with with with swastikas. I would
say at least once or twice a year. It would
happen to either my synagogue or my school every year.
I never made the news. It just was a relatively
common occurrence in Los Angeles and I imagine other cities
in the country. Otherwise, a kid, your perspective is local.
It's not global at all. Now. At the time, the
(07:04):
anti Semitism that was occurring was exclusively from the hard right.
It was exclusively from skinheads, Neo Nazis. The guys that
I fought with routinely were always skinheads and white supremacists.
And then what happened was sometimes in the late eighties
early nineties, it kind of magically all went away and
(07:26):
you rarely heard of any Semitism. Again, it didn't really occur,
and a something did happen, if a synagogue was defaced,
it made news because it was so rare, and this
like Goldilocks period when it went away for maybe two decades,
maybe a little bit less than that, maybe fifteen years,
And now it's come back, and it's come back in
a more virulent form because now it's from the It's
(07:50):
still part of the hard right culture, right the extreme
right culture, but it's now also become part of the
extreme left culture. You see it from both ends. Ironically,
I spent a lot of time in any Semites. I
speak with a lot of them. Oftentimes I interview them
and I'm talking from KKK. People were par the nation
of Islam both sides. And what's interesting is they both
(08:14):
If you ask them why they like Jews, you often
hear the same responses. It's really interesting. I've always thought
politics is not a linear line. I've always believed politics
is a circle. If you go so far and left,
so far to the right, you end up coming back
to the same place. I think history has proven that.
And uh yeah, you see a lot of the same
(08:35):
responses when it comes to why don't you like Jews?
Jews control the media, Jews control economy, control armies, same
kind of clap track you heard throughout the centuries of
jew hatred. It's fascinating, but it's more virulent because it's
now coming from both ends. And that's not a pincer
move you want to be involved in. And I think
(08:57):
that my oftentimes Jews tend to be left of center. Right,
Jews tend to vote Democrat, not dissimilar from black people.
And it's because and I understand why, right, I vote
more Republican Democratic, I voted, I've voted. I work for
a Democrat. But I understand why because Jews look at
(09:18):
everything through the prism of social justice because of our history,
which I get right, the the the amount of oppression
that we have felt over the centuries has made us
acutely aware of issues around social justice, which, by the way,
is another reason why Jews were in the forefront of
the issues for against racism. And I'm trying to help
(09:41):
black people lift themselves because we understood their history. Well,
we lived that history in a lot of cases, not
just in this country but globally, and we had done
better for ourselves and we wanted to make sure other
people didn't have to experience what we experienced as much
as we could. And that's why. And so Democrats, and again,
(10:02):
if I'm going on too long coming out.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
No, no, it's your floor.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
So Democrats or Jews were always Republican voters because they
thought the Republican Party after Lincoln was the party of
social justice for obvious reasons. And then with Franklin Roosevelt
it switched like a light switch. They all moved Republican
Democrat have never looked back since then. You know, I
would say roughly a little bit lower than the black community,
probably around eighty percent of Jews vote Democrat. And that's why.
(10:31):
So it is interesting to see any Semitism rear its
ugly head from both sides, left and right.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
You mentioned earlier that left of center, center, and right
of center have far more in common than their differences, Ramses,
and I believe that that is true across political lines,
across ethnicities, that in general, people have far more in
common than the things that we highlight to divide ourselves,
(11:00):
or that the things that have been highlighted for us
to keep us divided is really how we view it. So,
you know, thank you for pointing that out, because we
believe that's something that we believe is true across politics,
across ideologies, and across ethnicities and you also point out
the extremes in that circle, and that was a I
(11:20):
think that was a great mental picture for our audience
as well. You know, as you keep going so far extreme,
those extremes end up with just as much in common
as the rest of us. So in either direction too far,
you're kind of going the wrong way at a certain point.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
With regards to.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
The most recent rise and anti semitism and that rhetoric
by some popular or you know, need I say, celebrity
African Americans, what do you think has led to that
type of ideology and it being expressed out loud in
(12:00):
the media over the past year, you know, you know,
mister West and his deaf Con three and the promoting
of some anti semitic views and some films on Amazon
by you know, a professional basketball player. What type of
things do you think stoked that or led to the
popularity of a seemingly anti semitic view from a generation
(12:23):
of black people that we hadn't seen before.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, and it's unfortunately it's it goes far wider than that.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I bet it does.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yeah, there's there's a lot I mean, there's there's a
lot of names that people often probably don't even know
ice Cube is an example that comes to mind, who
said horrifically and semitic things, promoted an Semitic memes, has
even attacked Black I mean I remember him. He attacked
Kream dul Jabbar with an a Semitic slur. Oddly enough,
(12:53):
because last time I checked, Cream wasn't Jewish. I wish
it was, but but it's not. Nick Cannon, I mean
big Nick, big big names who are sterling sharp, you know,
Stephen Jackson. Anyways, I I don't go through the list.
So there's a lot of commonality between between them. And
(13:17):
I hate to say it, but a lot of it
comes from the Nation of Islam, I gotta say. And
I think that the support of the Nation of Islam,
particularly it's leader Lewis Ferrikhon. You see a commonality among
all the people who have said these things, who had
then spoken about Lewis Ferrikhon in a very positive light,
(13:39):
and they've pup they've parroted much of the words Farakhon
has used and not in the Holocaust, calling Jews roaches,
saying Jews are parasites, Jews control all these these these
are these are oftentimes script from Lewis Farakhon, and I
think that the other problem is that we've got we've
(14:00):
let them get away with it. And I always look,
I always like to say, let's look in the mirror,
or let's put the shoe on the other foot and
and and see, because I think that's very clarifying. If you,
for example, would say, if a white person would say
those awful things but instead of just changed you for
black person, that person would rightly be be vilified and
(14:23):
will probably never work again and or or certainly not
work for a very long time unless until penance was made.
But a lot of times these guys aren't made to
face the same mus Yeah, there might be a couple,
Oh he's got to apologize or you know, say something.
The ADL organization, by the way, I don't particularly care for.
And yeah, they all went through their penance of just
(14:45):
say hey, sorry if I offended you, or you know,
I'm learning more about this, but it's not real, let's
be honest. I hope it was, and I hope some
of them have learned. But I think a lot of
it comes from that. You know. What's also interesting, there's
there's a there's this move to make Jews white people.
This is something that that this is not a it's
(15:07):
not a new thing, but it's it's it's it's kind
of come back to where it was. I remember James Baldwin,
the great, great, great Black writer, wrote this essay on
any Semitism, and what he ended up saying was is
even back then I was written in the sixties. He
talked about the high levels of any Semitism the black community.
But what he said was, it's really more is Jewish
(15:30):
people as a proxy for white people. It's really a
hatred of white people. But Jewish people just tend to
they tend to be the grosser at the time in
Harlem where they tended to be the landlord, and and
they kind of used as a proxy. And the danger
of doing that is this, first of all, it's just
just factually false.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Jews come in all shape, sizes and colors. In my
personal family, I have people who are black, not not
brown black people my family who are dark brown. Personally
am a person of color. My mother comes from Iron.
We come of all shape sizes, racial ethnicities. So we're
clearly not white people necessarily. Some of us are white,
(16:13):
but not all of us. But the reason why it's
done I Remember I'm going thinking about Whoope Goldberg on
the View made this point and I thought it was
really dangerous where she was talking about the Holocaust and said,
well it was y'all white people kind of fighting amongst yourselves.
Now it was offensive in a couple levels. First of all,
come dismissing the holocausts you all people were fighting esach other.
(16:33):
And second of all, the fact that she made all
Jews as white people. And the reason why it's done
is it's you know, you guys believe the term intersectionality.
Do you guys know that term? Yes, yes, So it's
I think it's because of the idea of intersectionality, where
if because you have the intersectionality is kind of created
(16:54):
as a first of all, intersectionality something I have a
lot of issues with, primarily because it's about the connection,
the connective tissue of victimhood and also based on really
economic power. So you put white people on the top
of that pyramid, put black people that say, at the
bottom of the pyramid, and you say, well, if you
put Jews of white people, then therefore it's okay if
(17:17):
we speak polly of them, because they're really part of
the intersectional oppression that we face.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So how about this? Yeah, if I'm in of course,
now there's going to be a lot of people who
will listen to this and appreciate the insight and appreciate
how it feels to be a Jewish man experiencing this.
I will affirm again you are my brother, and I
(17:44):
appreciate that you came on here. But I wouldn't be
doing my job if I did not try to ask
questions that perhaps our listeners who are trying to learn
more would would ask. And so allow me to play
devil's advocate, forgive the expression. So for a black person,
(18:05):
the experience of interacting with an individual who lacks melanin
is a unique experience. You lack melanin that means white, right, right,
or a person who's white passing. This is what I'm
This is what I'm saying, So white or white adjacent, right.
(18:27):
This is a person that if you know nothing else
about me, you do know that I'm black. I wear
it all over my whole body, right, So my experience
is going to be very different. I cannot hide it.
My hair grows this way, my skin looks like this.
This is who I am. You can tell that I'm
black from across the street a Jewish person. You cannot
tell that a person is Jewish from across the street.
In other words, Whoopie Goldberg an example that you mentioned,
(18:50):
Whoopy Goldberg is a Jewish woman, but you would not
know that unless she said it to you, or unless
you observed her worshiping or partaking in Jewish customs. But
you do know full well to sheose a black woman,
and that visual in many instances where she lacks power,
(19:10):
will elicit and approach to her or a response to her,
some of which could conceivably be negative, and those of
us in the no refer to that as racism, and
so anti semitism. Again, my listeners may make this connection,
and I'm asking for clarification from you. Anti Semitism is
(19:33):
something that is not by from that vantage point, not as.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
What was that visual.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
It's not as visual, right. In other words, you have
to invite someone in to know this part about you,
and then they can choose to discriminate based on that information.
Whereas people who've already made up their minds about how
they feel about black people can spot black people out
of a lineup. I use that term almost intentionally and deliberately,
so your thoughts on a person who might push back
(20:09):
and say, well, you know, some of this stuff is
based in reality at least to some degree.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, I mean look not to say that. Obviously a
black person and a Jewish white person look very dissimilar
the old like I would look. It is visual when
it comes to any Semitism to a certain extent, the
extent that Jewish people not all the time, but there
are a lot of Jews on Saturday, I wear a yamica.
(20:36):
I am very visually Jewish.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Sure, sure ari war one every day there.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
If you're a Hasidic Jew, you look very visually Jewish.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Absolutely, Now we.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Can shed that, obviously you cannot. But still there is
a visual component to it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
So for example, when you see Jews being beat up
in Brooklyn, it's oftentimes the Jews are being almost exclusively
are the ones who look Jewish and they're Hasidic. They're
wearing the garb because a person who's attacking them visually
identified that he wasn't invited to their home and then
realized they were Jewish, or got to a conversation we
have to do it. We're punched. They were attacked and
(21:14):
beaten because they were visually Jewish, so not that. Yeah,
so I agree there's a difference, but there's also similarity to.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It, sure, and I believe that you're right. There's a
lot more similarities there. And really this conversation is meant
to do some healing. Another thing I want to point out,
if I may, is that the Nation of Islam, obviously
here we have to deal with all different facets of
black life, and everyone who we believe is marginalized, we
(21:47):
do our best to share this space with him. So
this includes our Asian, American and Pacific Islander brothers and sisters,
our lgbt Q I A plus brothers and sisters and
on and on. You you realize the list. And when
we do our peek, you do not have the Sikhs on.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Do not care about the seeks.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
The Sikhs were out there helping us protest in twenty
twenty with the turbans and everything, and so those are
our brothers and our sisters as well, and when they
need us, we will be here for them. But I
do want to ask you this while, and we just
have about a minute or so left for you to respond.
But I recognize that there is a deep rooted history
(22:25):
between Muslims and Jewish people that exists long before this
chapter in American history, and in fact, I believe the
origin might have been in the Middle East somewhere, and
perhaps there's still some fighting going on there. I mostly
focus on American issues relative to black people, so I
(22:47):
wouldn't profess to know much about Middle East policy. However,
do you believe that the connection between Blacks and Jews
is made through the nation of Islam and originates in
the Middle East? In other words, there's there's some lineage there. No, okay,
(23:08):
so explain.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
It just had No, I don't. I don't think that.
What you're asking is that if if the the the
any Semitism coming from the black community originates and stems
from the conflict in the Middle East.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, that more or less? No, No, No, okay, I
mean I think.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
There's Look, there's there's there's overlap, and certainly when it
comes to Lewis Ferrikhn there might be some of that,
although I don't know, to be honest, I don't know
if his any Semitism is born from his from is
from his Islam, or just from his bigot tree. I
don't the truth is. I don't know the answer to that.
(23:47):
In fact, if I ever had a chance to sit
down with him, and I would, I would love.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
To figure that out.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I would love to unpack that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Listen, I tell you what, We're gonna leave it right
here just because we're gonna move on, but we are
going to manifest We're gonna radiate some positivity in your direction.
Hopefully you'll get a chance to talk to him, because
I believe that that's a conversation that we all could
benefit from, and certainly we would love to know how
to heal this relationship. But for now, it's time to
(24:15):
move on to our way, Black History Fact. And so
today's way Black History Fact is as always sponsored by
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and we are going
to be talking about a long history American Jews and
the NAACP. This writing comes from Rabbi Lance J. Sussman, PhD.
(24:41):
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, or
the NAACP and American Jews have a long shared history.
The anti Semitic posting by Minister Rodney Muhammad, head of
the Philadelphia chapter of the NAACP, has thrown relations between
American Jews and African Americans and the NAACP into disarray. First,
(25:03):
and unequivocally, Minister Mohammed, Well, this is his asking. He
needs to resign his invoking of anti Semitic Nazi meme.
It was inexcusable and betrays the mission and goals of
the NAACP. I would tend to agree with that in
my opinion, the NAACP at the national level needs to
secure this resignation and move any doubt as to their
(25:24):
organization's philosophy moving forward. Second, the NAACP needs who affirm
its historic mandate of fighting all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Again,
I agree with that the mission of the NAACP, in
their own words is to quote secure the political, educational, social,
economic equality of rights in order to eliminate race based
discrimination and ensure the health and well being of all persons.
(25:45):
The American Jewish NAACP cooperation must continue and maintain its
extraordinary legacy of dialogue and I love that art all right. Fourth,
the Philadelphia Jewish community needs to recognize the size and
strength and continue and growth of our local African American
Muslim community, the largest in the United States, and work
to build bridges between us them and others. I think
(26:07):
it's important to keep the current controversy and historical perspective,
as there are forces in both communities which want to
break down the historic ties between American Jews and African
Americans and empower anti integrationists and anti a cultural and
a culture. How would I say a culture, a cultural,
a culturistionist ideas. I believe that's all I said. Forgive
(26:30):
me on both sides of the debate. That would be
a mistake, that would be a tragedy for Americans, Blacks, Jews,
and American itself. At the same time, we need to
appreciate there are difference, differences and tensions between Jews and
Blacks and the United States, and at the same time,
we can and must work together for the benefit of
our country. All right, here we go. The NAACP was
(26:54):
founded in nineteen oh nine in reaction to a terrible
race riot the year before in Springfield, Illinois. Among the
original founders of the NAACP were Henry Moskowitz and a
Romanian Jew who worked as the executive director of the
Broadway League in New York. Moskowitz was joined in support
(27:14):
of the NAACP by Rabbi Emil Hirsch, son of Keys
Rabbi the late Samuel Hirsch, Julius Rosenwald, father of Keyes
Lessing Rosenwald Jacob Schiff, was the leading Jewish philanthropist of
the Progressive era and the well respected spring Arm family
(27:34):
to this day. The spring Arn Medal is one of
the highest awards given by the NAACP to those who
best exemplify its goals and values. The young Rabbi Stephen Wise,
a leading voice of American Zionism prior to World War Two,
supported the NAACP and via W. E. E. D. Boyd
the Niagara Movement. Lillian Ward of Settlement House fame also
(27:55):
supported the newly founded NAACP. But perhaps the most fruitful
collaboration between the American Jewish community, and in particular the
reform movement in Judaism and the NAACP, took place in
the early nineteen sixties. In nineteen sixty two, the Union
for American Hebrew Congregations UAHC now the Union for Reform
(28:19):
Judaism RJ, purchased the old Ecuadorian Embassy at twenty twenty
seven Massachusetts Avenue in Washington, d C. Northwest and launched
its Religious Action Center there nineteen sixty four, with reform
NAACP leaders and others huddled around the table. The historic
(28:40):
Civil Rights Act was written. The following year, the same
coalition produced the Voting Acts Right, the Voting Rights Act
of nineteen sixty five, which was guided by the Supreme
Court in twenty thirteen. In other words, the most progressive
social and civil legislation in American history was born of
NAACP dh American Jewish cooperation. It is important to note
(29:04):
that the seed money for the rac was given by
a reformed jew, Kiv Kaplan, who passed in nineteen seventy five.
The s gift was given in nineteen fifty five. Caplan,
a Bostonian, joined the NAACP at nineteen thirty two at
the age of twenty eight, was elected to its national
board in nineteen fifty four, and from nineteen sixty five
(29:26):
to nineteen eighty five served as president of the NAACP.
He marched and was jailed with doctor Martin Luther King
Junior on many occasions, including the Edmund Pettis Bridge crossing
in Selma, Alabama. Curiously, on the back of his business card,
Kaplan always had the words keep smiling printed. There is
a saying to the effect that things were never as
(29:48):
good between blacks and Jews as Jewish liberals would have it,
nor were they as bad as Black nationalists alleged tensions
between American Jews and American Blacks are nothing new. As
a child, again, this is Rabbi Lance J. Sussimon's words.
As a child, I heard endless coded comments about blacks
and was aware that Jews were paradoxically part of the
(30:09):
white flight movement, just as they were largely pro civil rights. Later,
I learned that Doctor King Representative, Doctor King, Representative John
Lewis and other African American leaders were hard pressed by
Black nationalists for their integrationist views. But these tensions are
secondary to the need for cooperation in pursuit of civil
(30:31):
equality in the United States. Hopefully, at these difficult times,
American Jews and leaders of the NAACP will remember our
joint heritage, our larger common purpose, and together with Kybe
Kaplan and others, will find a way back to marching
and smiling together. And it's signed Shabat Shalon Shaloon Rabbi
Lance J. Sussimon, PhD. So we're almost done, But any
(30:57):
thoughts on today's way black history fact from you, Amy.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
No I found I found it fascinating. Yeah, I think
that's uh, this is is what we're talking about, exactly
what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, and then go ahead please.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yeah, I would say that that the the Jews were
were for the reasons I mentioned, were involved from from
from the get go in the civil rights movement and
and and to and to their eternal credit, they did that.
I'm proud of that fact that that legacy. Uh, it
heartens me every day when I hear you say it
with the pride that you did, I feel something. I
(31:35):
get a little emotional.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Makladia good, good, good, Well, you know, and I do
want to mention this and I would I love your
thoughts if you have any c But you know, I mean,
I heard, I heard the comment about the a d L.
And we have a well let's call it a budding
relationship with the Anti Defamation League. And so our hope
is that you know that there are some repairs that
(31:58):
can take place in the Jewish community as well as
some repairs that take place in the Black community amongst ourselves,
and you know, hopefully we'll continue to have conversations like
this and move the narrative forward. How about that?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
I loved it. Man. Listen. Look, your podcast maybe not
be the greatest podcast in the country, but for sure
you guys have the coolest names and all the podcasts
in all the land.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
We'll take that. We'll take that well. On the heels
of that, we'd like to thank you all for tuning
into another episode of Civic Cipher once again. I'm your host,
Rams's job he is, and.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I am q Ward. Thank you guys again for your support, like, share, comment,
give us a review. We do this as a labor
of love, so your support and your sharing of our
content means more than you could ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Absolutely, once again, I want to thank our special guest
coming all the way across a couple of bridges to
have some really interesting and informative conversations with us today,
Amy Horowitz. We can't thank you enough. For everyone else,
please do us a favor. Hit the website Civiccipher dot
com if you have any topics you wanted to cover,
if you want to make a donation, you want to
follow us on social media again, it's all civic site.
(33:05):
Freaking down of this in any previous episode and until
next week y'all. Peace peace, y'all, y yo.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
We had the li these brothers, a fabulous our lady
showing you where ROMB traveled this world speak tons from
sunlight to move busting on stage like Thenna fights the
b roll my mic back.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
You're like that joner list with journalist too.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
We can strike back all horb borders with orders from
headquarters behind in the beline sides up and the borders
with press passing.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We bring it to you as it happens.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
The streets love mocked on from music and rapping, the
street compland the slash week expando.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
You're gonna fight the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
What's happening? It's not you got any question to ask?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
If the news is just a TV show?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You're passing And this from a white wartime journalist headlines
wait God, previs and resist like
Speaker 4 (33:57):
This like what like this like they way the song
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