September 23, 2023 • 22 mins
In the second half of our show, we discuss the story of a police officer caught on video describing 23-year-old Jaahnavi Kandula as having “limited value” as well as the story of the DC police training officer who shot and killed a Black female officer in training in the middle of the training class.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you just tuning in a Civic Cipher, I am
your host, Ramsey's job. He is Ramsay's job. I am
q Ward. You our friends are listening to Civic Cipher
and we appreciate that, and be sure to stick around
because we got a lot more in store for you.
As promised, we are going to be talking about that incident,
(00:21):
very very heartbreaking incident of the police officer who was
caught laughing at twenty three year old Jenavi Hondula in
Seattle after she was hit by another police car and
gued his conversation over the phone that was recorded by
his camera caught him like laughing and just kind of
(00:42):
making light of her life. I'm also going to share
a story about the DC police trainer who ended up
shooting a black mother who was a police trainee in
the training class. And we're going to have a conversation
about police training and how effective it is. So that
and so much more to stick around for. And foremost
we are going to discuss ba BA becoming a better
(01:03):
ally BABA and today's BABA is sponsored by Friends of
the Movement to support Black Businesses and Allied businesses. Sign
up for the free voter wallet from fotmglobal dot com
and make an impact with your spending again. That's Fotmglobal
dot com. And today's reading comes from Black Enterprise. Georgetown
(01:25):
University and the Jesuits have pledged twenty seven million dollars
in money and land donations to the descendants of nineteenth
century enslaved people who were sold to fund the highly
prestigious institution. According to C and N Descendants, The Descendants
Truth and Reconciliation Foundation confirmed the gift of ten million
dollars from Georgetown in an additional seventeen million and the
(01:46):
Jesuits in the form of financial retribution and plantation land. Quote.
These contributions from Georgetown University and the Jesuits are a
clear indication of the role Jesuits and other institutions of
higher education can play and supporting our mission to heal
the wounds of racism in the United States, as well
as a call to action for all the Catholic Church
to take meaningful steps to address the harm done through
(02:08):
centuries of slaveholding. Monique Trustclaire Maddox, CEO of the Descendants
Truth and Reconciliation Foundation and share of its board of directors,
said the donations helped to be a hope to be
a crucial step in rectifying the injustice enacted upon two
hundred and seventy two enslaved men, women and children sold
(02:30):
from Jesuit plantations to settle Georgetown's debts in eighteen thirty eight.
So yeah, baba, becoming a better ally is owning your
past reparations and sharing those injustices, because having the conversations
is what allows us to heal. And if Georgetown University
(02:53):
is going for first Soviet, if.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Only that way of thinking, it could be more widely adopted,
more prevalent something. Okay, so let's talk about this story.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And I know you saw the video. Talk us through
the video, uh, the officer's conversation, How well, talk to
us about how you felt when you first saw that,
because you're the one that sent it to me.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I wonder a lot of times when we see some
of these videos, especially when their police body cams, if
they completely forget that they're wearing them. Because it seemed
like the officer was having a conversation with himself making
light of it. And I know that to another officer,
but it was like, if I make light of it,
(03:51):
I can feel better about it right, like it was
almost like convincing himself or themselves that this young lady
didn't have any work, so that sleeping better at night
would be easier. And if you guys have ever heard
Ramses describe anything being killed, not just the person, anything
(04:14):
with the conscience, anything that's alive, that thing ceasing to
be alive, should be recognized and talked about with the
gravity with which Ramses does so. I've always noticed that
through all of my years talking to him. When talking
about something ceasing to exist, and I use those words intentionally,
(04:37):
he speaks about it like something that was once alive
is no longer and that that life and that breath
and that consciousness was snuffed out, was taken away, was
made to stop. And Ramses also speaks about guns in
a way that maybe more people should. The only use
(05:00):
case for guns is murder. That's it. That's the only
reason that they exist. And I'd imagine for some of
these officers they have to remove the value of life
to even be able to do the job, especially those
who take life away like it has no worth. I mean,
it's kind of self fulfilling. I don't think the first
(05:23):
time you had that type of conversation was in the
wake of that young lady being killed. Yeah, it's a
way of life and a way of thinking for some officers.
And what you heard is the quiet part out loud.
So for those that may not know, let me give
you the quick and dirty version of the story. So
(05:46):
we're not going to say these officers' names because we
don't want these people to get famous. We don't believe
they deserve credit. It's the police. For everyone that feels
like it's a bad apple. Look at our post about
what happens to the good apples again. Follow us on
social media at Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Our social media has been kind of booming lately, and
we appreciate everyone who's supported us again at Civic Cipher.
But I digress. The long and the short of it
was there was an additional officer separate that we never
saw video of or whatever. This officer was speeding through
the city to get to some sort of emergency. Jenavi
(06:30):
Candula was, if I'm not mistaken, crossing the street or
something like that. The officer didn't see her and he
ended up hitting her and that's how she lost her life.
So there's something to be said about what are we
willing to give up for police speeding through the city.
I get that there's a there's some things that are
(06:53):
very difficult to reconcile because police chases often ended people
being hurt, people losing the life, even officers losing their lives.
But that's what happened here. And this officer that we're
talking about, what was recorded on his bodycam footage, well,
it was discovered that he was recording on his bodycam footage.
(07:15):
He was recalling having responded to that situation because he
was the officer that they call in to assess the
officer that was driving, to make sure that that officer
hadn't been drinking or you know whatever. So basically he
was the one who came to investigate the officer. So
(07:36):
what he was saying was, well, let me read it,
but she is dead, he said on January twenty third,
before laughing, apparently in response to the person on the phone. No,
it's a regular person, he said. Moments later, he replies, yeah,
(07:57):
just write a check, and then he laughs. He goes
on to say, yeah, eleven thousand dollars. She was twenty
six anyway, and then he goes on to say she
had limited value so you're just like it sounds you're
hearing part of the conversation half the conversation. Well, that
was what he was recording. Now, remember that this was
(08:17):
January twenty third, and we're just getting the footage now.
So not only does the family and the friends of
Jenavi Candula have to relive all this because it's in
the media again, the reason is because it gives you
insight into how separate, how big the gap is between
(08:45):
human being and police officer, because that level of disconnect
can set in. I'm not going to say it does
for all police officers, but there's definitely a mentality and
a culture that exists behind that thin blue wall that
we all know about and you all know about. Don't
(09:05):
act like we're talking about police cover ups and police
protecting each other. They know that this stuff is wrong.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
The police investigating, the police in and of it, Celsius
a super bogus.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And then as Q mentioned, they say the quiet part
out loud, what is this? Eight nine months later we
hear this how he really felt and granted, this wasn't
a police shooting, This wasn't he didn't even have anything
to do with her, He didn't have any reason to
put this woman down. There is just no regard for
human life. And that man carries a gun for a living.
(09:40):
For a living, they pay him money to license to
use it. Oh my god, he has qualified immunity, so
if he uses it on the job, he cannot be
held responsible for those actions. They have to go after
the department and it has to be overwhelmingly negligent and
criminal and beyond the reach of those police unions in
(10:02):
order for him to even be held accountable.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And then, as we've seen sentencing, thank you always lighter,
thank you cue even when found guilty, even when convicted.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Now there are people because we see all the trolls
on the internet, and some people maybe they're not intending
to be trolls, but you are. But there are people
that ask questions that from their perspective, I guess I
have to assume that this is all they know. Well,
just don't break the law and you won't have to
(10:34):
don't do crimes and you won't have these problems. Listen.
That's like saying, remember when Paris Hilton wore a shirt.
I think it was a mock up, but she had
that shirt that said stop being poor. It was it.
I think it was a joke, but it was. It
was a meme a while back. Paris Hilton obviously is
known for being very wealthy. Her being that wealthy, wearing
(10:55):
a shirt that says stop being poor is extremely hurtful
and extremely sensitive. Duh, And so saying stopped doing crime
is like, uh, duh, I would I I was, matter
of fact you, I'll tell you this. I was talking
to a father and son duo today for the Black
Information Network Daily podcast, and I believe their names are
(11:17):
Tony Lewis Junior and Tony Lewis Senior if I'm not mistaken,
So please, for those of you who feel so inclined,
check out the Black Information Network Daily podcast look for
those names. Amazing story. The father was sentenced to life
in prison for selling marijuana. Wow, life in prison? Okay,
he spent thirty four years in prison. He went to
(11:40):
prison very young, spent thirty four years for selling marijuana,
and obviously that was an unfair sentence. His son worked
to get him out and he was on that other podcast.
But that man told me something that stays with me.
He said, I was poor, I'm was struggling. I was
(12:02):
old enough to do something I saw some people doing
some stuff. That was it that there was no other
basis for economic advancement. And I don't want to live
with roaches, and I don't want to live with rats,
and that seems like the only thing that I can do,
so I do it. So to those people that say, well,
just don't do crime, you know you have to understand
(12:24):
the entirety of the situation. I either live like this
until I die, or I do my best. I roll
the dice and I try to get better. But if
that's the narrative that you insist on having, then let's
talk about fair sentencing across the board. Because we know
the criminal justice system treats you worse. The darker you are,
(12:47):
the poorer you are, sad truth right, the less attractive
you are, that's another one. And these things are that's
not Rams's opinion. These these are objective facts. You could
look them up there, documented by the government agencies dot gov.
I got to look this stuff up all the time.
I promise I wouldn't lie to you. Okay, but then
(13:09):
let's still don't have to take our order for it. Yeah,
look at yourself. Please help me do my job. But
we'll take it a step further, Let's talk about if
you're going to roll the dice because you have limited options.
Let's talk about how the police enforce whatever it is
(13:35):
that they're enforcing. Let's talk about whether or not the
police hold humanity at the center of their approach. Let's
talk about the Stanford experiments, if we're being honest in brief,
if you're not familiar with the Stanford experiments, it took
place a Stanford University in California, and it was a
social experiment used a professor took students, just a bunch
(13:56):
of a group of students, and made half of them
prison guards and the other half inmates. And again everyone
knew that it was an experiment, but the psychology of
the people in power lording that power over people who
were quote unquote guilty even though they knew they were
fellow students. They're not really guilty in the real world.
This experiment had the experiment had to be canceled because
(14:20):
the guards became so corrupt. There were students, and the
people across the hall in the cells were students too
in the real world, and they all knew this, But
that authority is extremely corruptive and policing. If we're being honest.
The way recruitment works is they tend to attract bullies.
(14:42):
Why do you think police are the number one wife
beaters in the world. I think certainly in this country
it attracts a lot of bullies. Police got a long
way to go before they're good. In my book, there's
to have that standard.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well even objectively, you say book, and that makes it
seem like something else, just based on statistics, based on numbers,
based on the data that's provided. It's not about Ramsay's book.
If you just objectively look at the data, like the
percentage of you know, officers that are you know, involved
with domestic violence, you know, a per capita data sample
(15:20):
number one, but it's very high number one. That's not
in Ramses's book. I want to I want to be clear,
this is not Rammes's subjective opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Have a long way to go, period. But you know
again that that bully, they attract that bully, like have
you ever seen that punish your logo it's like a
skull that police have. They put the patch on their
stuff and you know that sort of thing. It's just
a very very aggressive sort of culture. And that's that's
a modern thing. That's a result of the militarization of
(15:48):
the police, the radicalization of the police in this country,
if I'm being honest, and it's a far cry from
the neighborhood friendly policeman from the fifties and the forties.
Even those guys were bad to blacken around people, but
it got way worse, especially for us. And like you said,
this officer was one of the people who said the
quiet part out loud, no regard for the human element here,
(16:12):
and this is the sort of thing that we've been
trying to say. So even if for those people that
troll us online and say, well, listen, man, that pregnant
woman shouldn't have she should have just listened to the
police and shouldn't have shoplifted from the store. Okay, fam
So she deserved to die. The police get the best
version of the story, and she gets the worst version
of the worst optics, and the police get the best optics.
(16:34):
Every time, you know, I'm sure that this guy is
not going to There's nothing that's going to happen to
this guy that's clearly doesn't hold a human life in
any particularly positive light unless it maybe somebody knows.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I mean, they'll do some form of pr Right, if
I get a light suspension or a slap on the
wrist of or just transfer, life won't changed way. That's
you know, negative, He'll be fine. He'll continue to laugh
at the loss of life for people who are, in
his mind, beneath him.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So watch this. There's another popular narrative that exists where
people say, well, police, they just need better training. We
need better trained officers. Well, listen, we talked about this
on the show before. Remember Kim Potter Dante, right.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, Kim Potter, who I was upset because I thought
we were giving her way too much benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, that was what I did. But I'll tell you
why go ahead give.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh No, that was just you know, the idea that
maybe she'd made all these mistakes honestly, and her being
the training officer, the supervisory officer, I just thought that
was highly unlikely. Okay, So those things were done in
good faith and that she didn't know the difference between
her taser and her pistol.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, so real quick, Q's gonna You're gonna find out
why Q's mad at me, because I do act you
feel that way. But for those that don't remember this,
is the video that we were able to see where
there was a white officer woman who was trying to
arrest Daunte Wright, a young black father. I believe it
was in Minneapolis or somewhere in Minnesota. Somewhere in Minnesota.
(18:19):
He tried to run away from the officers, that's the thing,
and she like freaked out, got spooked. He was trying
to jump in the car or something like that, and
she know, taser, taser, taser, pulled out the gun and
shot him. And then she started wailing like, oh my god,
I didn't mean to shoot him. I feel like that
(18:39):
was an accident. Q. It doesn't like that. I give
her that much grace. I want to take it a
step further. Q. Go ahead, and you can yell at
me in just a second. But the point with her
was that she was responsible for the training, so she
was the best training whatever. There's a story that I
want to sure about a DC police trainer, Jesse Porter,
(19:04):
who shot a young mother. She was the officer too,
and he was training her. I'd believe to work in
the library or something like that. He shot her like
as a joke. He turned around, pulled out his gun.
He says he meant to pull out his practice or
dummy gun or something like that. He pulled out his
real gun, shot her in the chest in the class,
in front of everybody. There's a video of this. She
dies on the floor and he's throwing his hands up like,
(19:27):
oh my god, I didn't There's no audio, so I
don't know this is what he's saying, but you could
see that. You know what a human being is going through.
And you see his reaction to that moment, and everybody's
freaking out, especially him. He tries to do CPR, that
sort of stuff. He was training the class. Okay, Also,
this training narrative has existed since the fifties sixties civil
(19:50):
rights movement. I looked it up. It's one of those
political zombies that never dies. Like trickled down economic. It
doesn't work. You've had decades to try it. It's not
a real thing. Well, I tell you what. Police training
doesn't work. I looked that up. I have a whole
episode on that on the Black Information Network Daily podcast.
(20:14):
I did the research. Police training does not work. In fact,
the best results showed that officers' behaviors changed somewhat for
about a month and then they reverted to type, and
I think that's indicative of the overwhelming influence of police culture.
(20:41):
When people talk about the system, I think that the
culture is a big part of that. And so being
a police officer taking a moment and ducking out and
getting training here and there, that doesn't stick. What more
than likely is going to stick is that culture. You
get back in with your guys, you're moving around, you
get you know, start consuming the same media and conversation
(21:02):
with same people to feel the same way, and you're
revert to type and back at it. And as we've seen,
we can't even trust the training officers with a gun.
So guns are dangerous. Police culture is dangerous, And there's
a stunning silence from the masses. Not for me in UQ,
but a stunning silence. There was a moment where some
(21:23):
people became a little bit more critical in twenty twenty,
but all these police shootings that we've seen since then,
no protests, no nothing, you know, I know that there's
no pandemic.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Even more strange than it was blaming the increase in
police violence against citizens on the idea that we protested
against man.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I don't know how these these wicked, weird like do
we not live in the same reality. How are you
able to get that off and it float anywhere? But
this is what we felt you needed to know today,
so we'll leave it right there. As always, i'd like
to thank you for tuning into CIVICXCPT once again, I'm
your host, Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
He is Ramsay's Jah. I am q Ward. Thank you
guys for joining us, like our stuff, comment, subscribe, follow
us on social media, on all your digital podcasting platforms,
and on radio stations all over the United States. Thank
you guys for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, that means a lot to us. And what
we said, what we said, we really meant. If you've
listened to this show, it really means a lot to us.
To follow us on social media that includes YouTube. YouTube
is a big one for us because we're really trying
to grow there.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The special for you guys on YouTube, So please follow.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Us every every platform except Twitter. We don't do that.
That's for the birds.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Is that what it's called?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Now? X whatever I think you said he's going to
start charging people, But anyway, we're not on that one.
We're on all the rest. Follow us on all the
platforms like support, comment, help us battle these trolls. We're
trying to change the world. We need your help and
you can help us do it. So until next week, y'all.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Peace,
If you just tuning in a Civic Cipher, I am
your host, Ramsey's job. He is Ramsay's job. I am
q Ward. You our friends are listening to Civic Cipher
and we appreciate that, and be sure to stick around
because we got a lot more in store for you.
As promised, we are going to be talking about that incident,
(00:21):
very very heartbreaking incident of the police officer who was
caught laughing at twenty three year old Jenavi Hondula in
Seattle after she was hit by another police car and
gued his conversation over the phone that was recorded by
his camera caught him like laughing and just kind of
(00:42):
making light of her life. I'm also going to share
a story about the DC police trainer who ended up
shooting a black mother who was a police trainee in
the training class. And we're going to have a conversation
about police training and how effective it is. So that
and so much more to stick around for. And foremost
we are going to discuss ba BA becoming a better
(01:03):
ally BABA and today's BABA is sponsored by Friends of
the Movement to support Black Businesses and Allied businesses. Sign
up for the free voter wallet from fotmglobal dot com
and make an impact with your spending again. That's Fotmglobal
dot com. And today's reading comes from Black Enterprise. Georgetown
(01:25):
University and the Jesuits have pledged twenty seven million dollars
in money and land donations to the descendants of nineteenth
century enslaved people who were sold to fund the highly
prestigious institution. According to C and N Descendants, The Descendants
Truth and Reconciliation Foundation confirmed the gift of ten million
dollars from Georgetown in an additional seventeen million and the
(01:46):
Jesuits in the form of financial retribution and plantation land. Quote.
These contributions from Georgetown University and the Jesuits are a
clear indication of the role Jesuits and other institutions of
higher education can play and supporting our mission to heal
the wounds of racism in the United States, as well
as a call to action for all the Catholic Church
to take meaningful steps to address the harm done through
(02:08):
centuries of slaveholding. Monique Trustclaire Maddox, CEO of the Descendants
Truth and Reconciliation Foundation and share of its board of directors,
said the donations helped to be a hope to be
a crucial step in rectifying the injustice enacted upon two
hundred and seventy two enslaved men, women and children sold
(02:30):
from Jesuit plantations to settle Georgetown's debts in eighteen thirty eight.
So yeah, baba, becoming a better ally is owning your
past reparations and sharing those injustices, because having the conversations
is what allows us to heal. And if Georgetown University
(02:53):
is going for first Soviet, if.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Only that way of thinking, it could be more widely adopted,
more prevalent something. Okay, so let's talk about this story.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And I know you saw the video. Talk us through
the video, uh, the officer's conversation, How well, talk to
us about how you felt when you first saw that,
because you're the one that sent it to me.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I wonder a lot of times when we see some
of these videos, especially when their police body cams, if
they completely forget that they're wearing them. Because it seemed
like the officer was having a conversation with himself making
light of it. And I know that to another officer,
but it was like, if I make light of it,
(03:51):
I can feel better about it right, like it was
almost like convincing himself or themselves that this young lady
didn't have any work, so that sleeping better at night
would be easier. And if you guys have ever heard
Ramses describe anything being killed, not just the person, anything
(04:14):
with the conscience, anything that's alive, that thing ceasing to
be alive, should be recognized and talked about with the
gravity with which Ramses does so. I've always noticed that
through all of my years talking to him. When talking
about something ceasing to exist, and I use those words intentionally,
(04:37):
he speaks about it like something that was once alive
is no longer and that that life and that breath
and that consciousness was snuffed out, was taken away, was
made to stop. And Ramses also speaks about guns in
a way that maybe more people should. The only use
(05:00):
case for guns is murder. That's it. That's the only
reason that they exist. And I'd imagine for some of
these officers they have to remove the value of life
to even be able to do the job, especially those
who take life away like it has no worth. I mean,
it's kind of self fulfilling. I don't think the first
(05:23):
time you had that type of conversation was in the
wake of that young lady being killed. Yeah, it's a
way of life and a way of thinking for some officers.
And what you heard is the quiet part out loud.
So for those that may not know, let me give
you the quick and dirty version of the story. So
(05:46):
we're not going to say these officers' names because we
don't want these people to get famous. We don't believe
they deserve credit. It's the police. For everyone that feels
like it's a bad apple. Look at our post about
what happens to the good apples again. Follow us on
social media at Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Our social media has been kind of booming lately, and
we appreciate everyone who's supported us again at Civic Cipher.
But I digress. The long and the short of it
was there was an additional officer separate that we never
saw video of or whatever. This officer was speeding through
the city to get to some sort of emergency. Jenavi
(06:30):
Candula was, if I'm not mistaken, crossing the street or
something like that. The officer didn't see her and he
ended up hitting her and that's how she lost her life.
So there's something to be said about what are we
willing to give up for police speeding through the city.
I get that there's a there's some things that are
(06:53):
very difficult to reconcile because police chases often ended people
being hurt, people losing the life, even officers losing their lives.
But that's what happened here. And this officer that we're
talking about, what was recorded on his bodycam footage, well,
it was discovered that he was recording on his bodycam footage.
(07:15):
He was recalling having responded to that situation because he
was the officer that they call in to assess the
officer that was driving, to make sure that that officer
hadn't been drinking or you know whatever. So basically he
was the one who came to investigate the officer. So
(07:36):
what he was saying was, well, let me read it,
but she is dead, he said on January twenty third,
before laughing, apparently in response to the person on the phone. No,
it's a regular person, he said. Moments later, he replies, yeah,
(07:57):
just write a check, and then he laughs. He goes
on to say, yeah, eleven thousand dollars. She was twenty
six anyway, and then he goes on to say she
had limited value so you're just like it sounds you're
hearing part of the conversation half the conversation. Well, that
was what he was recording. Now, remember that this was
(08:17):
January twenty third, and we're just getting the footage now.
So not only does the family and the friends of
Jenavi Candula have to relive all this because it's in
the media again, the reason is because it gives you
insight into how separate, how big the gap is between
(08:45):
human being and police officer, because that level of disconnect
can set in. I'm not going to say it does
for all police officers, but there's definitely a mentality and
a culture that exists behind that thin blue wall that
we all know about and you all know about. Don't
(09:05):
act like we're talking about police cover ups and police
protecting each other. They know that this stuff is wrong.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
The police investigating, the police in and of it, Celsius
a super bogus.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And then as Q mentioned, they say the quiet part
out loud, what is this? Eight nine months later we
hear this how he really felt and granted, this wasn't
a police shooting, This wasn't he didn't even have anything
to do with her, He didn't have any reason to
put this woman down. There is just no regard for
human life. And that man carries a gun for a living.
(09:40):
For a living, they pay him money to license to
use it. Oh my god, he has qualified immunity, so
if he uses it on the job, he cannot be
held responsible for those actions. They have to go after
the department and it has to be overwhelmingly negligent and
criminal and beyond the reach of those police unions in
(10:02):
order for him to even be held accountable.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And then, as we've seen sentencing, thank you always lighter,
thank you cue even when found guilty, even when convicted.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Now there are people because we see all the trolls
on the internet, and some people maybe they're not intending
to be trolls, but you are. But there are people
that ask questions that from their perspective, I guess I
have to assume that this is all they know. Well,
just don't break the law and you won't have to
(10:34):
don't do crimes and you won't have these problems. Listen.
That's like saying, remember when Paris Hilton wore a shirt.
I think it was a mock up, but she had
that shirt that said stop being poor. It was it.
I think it was a joke, but it was. It
was a meme a while back. Paris Hilton obviously is
known for being very wealthy. Her being that wealthy, wearing
(10:55):
a shirt that says stop being poor is extremely hurtful
and extremely sensitive. Duh, And so saying stopped doing crime
is like, uh, duh, I would I I was, matter
of fact you, I'll tell you this. I was talking
to a father and son duo today for the Black
Information Network Daily podcast, and I believe their names are
(11:17):
Tony Lewis Junior and Tony Lewis Senior if I'm not mistaken,
So please, for those of you who feel so inclined,
check out the Black Information Network Daily podcast look for
those names. Amazing story. The father was sentenced to life
in prison for selling marijuana. Wow, life in prison? Okay,
he spent thirty four years in prison. He went to
(11:40):
prison very young, spent thirty four years for selling marijuana,
and obviously that was an unfair sentence. His son worked
to get him out and he was on that other podcast.
But that man told me something that stays with me.
He said, I was poor, I'm was struggling. I was
(12:02):
old enough to do something I saw some people doing
some stuff. That was it that there was no other
basis for economic advancement. And I don't want to live
with roaches, and I don't want to live with rats,
and that seems like the only thing that I can do,
so I do it. So to those people that say, well,
just don't do crime, you know you have to understand
(12:24):
the entirety of the situation. I either live like this
until I die, or I do my best. I roll
the dice and I try to get better. But if
that's the narrative that you insist on having, then let's
talk about fair sentencing across the board. Because we know
the criminal justice system treats you worse. The darker you are,
(12:47):
the poorer you are, sad truth right, the less attractive
you are, that's another one. And these things are that's
not Rams's opinion. These these are objective facts. You could
look them up there, documented by the government agencies dot gov.
I got to look this stuff up all the time.
I promise I wouldn't lie to you. Okay, but then
(13:09):
let's still don't have to take our order for it. Yeah,
look at yourself. Please help me do my job. But
we'll take it a step further, Let's talk about if
you're going to roll the dice because you have limited options.
Let's talk about how the police enforce whatever it is
(13:35):
that they're enforcing. Let's talk about whether or not the
police hold humanity at the center of their approach. Let's
talk about the Stanford experiments, if we're being honest in brief,
if you're not familiar with the Stanford experiments, it took
place a Stanford University in California, and it was a
social experiment used a professor took students, just a bunch
(13:56):
of a group of students, and made half of them
prison guards and the other half inmates. And again everyone
knew that it was an experiment, but the psychology of
the people in power lording that power over people who
were quote unquote guilty even though they knew they were
fellow students. They're not really guilty in the real world.
This experiment had the experiment had to be canceled because
(14:20):
the guards became so corrupt. There were students, and the
people across the hall in the cells were students too
in the real world, and they all knew this, But
that authority is extremely corruptive and policing. If we're being honest.
The way recruitment works is they tend to attract bullies.
(14:42):
Why do you think police are the number one wife
beaters in the world. I think certainly in this country
it attracts a lot of bullies. Police got a long
way to go before they're good. In my book, there's
to have that standard.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well even objectively, you say book, and that makes it
seem like something else, just based on statistics, based on numbers,
based on the data that's provided. It's not about Ramsay's book.
If you just objectively look at the data, like the
percentage of you know, officers that are you know, involved
with domestic violence, you know, a per capita data sample
(15:20):
number one, but it's very high number one. That's not
in Ramses's book. I want to I want to be clear,
this is not Rammes's subjective opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Have a long way to go, period. But you know
again that that bully, they attract that bully, like have
you ever seen that punish your logo it's like a
skull that police have. They put the patch on their
stuff and you know that sort of thing. It's just
a very very aggressive sort of culture. And that's that's
a modern thing. That's a result of the militarization of
(15:48):
the police, the radicalization of the police in this country,
if I'm being honest, and it's a far cry from
the neighborhood friendly policeman from the fifties and the forties.
Even those guys were bad to blacken around people, but
it got way worse, especially for us. And like you said,
this officer was one of the people who said the
quiet part out loud, no regard for the human element here,
(16:12):
and this is the sort of thing that we've been
trying to say. So even if for those people that
troll us online and say, well, listen, man, that pregnant
woman shouldn't have she should have just listened to the
police and shouldn't have shoplifted from the store. Okay, fam
So she deserved to die. The police get the best
version of the story, and she gets the worst version
of the worst optics, and the police get the best optics.
(16:34):
Every time, you know, I'm sure that this guy is
not going to There's nothing that's going to happen to
this guy that's clearly doesn't hold a human life in
any particularly positive light unless it maybe somebody knows.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I mean, they'll do some form of pr Right, if
I get a light suspension or a slap on the
wrist of or just transfer, life won't changed way. That's
you know, negative, He'll be fine. He'll continue to laugh
at the loss of life for people who are, in
his mind, beneath him.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So watch this. There's another popular narrative that exists where
people say, well, police, they just need better training. We
need better trained officers. Well, listen, we talked about this
on the show before. Remember Kim Potter Dante, right.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, Kim Potter, who I was upset because I thought
we were giving her way too much benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, that was what I did. But I'll tell you
why go ahead give.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh No, that was just you know, the idea that
maybe she'd made all these mistakes honestly, and her being
the training officer, the supervisory officer, I just thought that
was highly unlikely. Okay, So those things were done in
good faith and that she didn't know the difference between
her taser and her pistol.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, so real quick, Q's gonna You're gonna find out
why Q's mad at me, because I do act you
feel that way. But for those that don't remember this,
is the video that we were able to see where
there was a white officer woman who was trying to
arrest Daunte Wright, a young black father. I believe it
was in Minneapolis or somewhere in Minnesota. Somewhere in Minnesota.
(18:19):
He tried to run away from the officers, that's the thing,
and she like freaked out, got spooked. He was trying
to jump in the car or something like that, and
she know, taser, taser, taser, pulled out the gun and
shot him. And then she started wailing like, oh my god,
I didn't mean to shoot him. I feel like that
(18:39):
was an accident. Q. It doesn't like that. I give
her that much grace. I want to take it a
step further. Q. Go ahead, and you can yell at
me in just a second. But the point with her
was that she was responsible for the training, so she
was the best training whatever. There's a story that I
want to sure about a DC police trainer, Jesse Porter,
(19:04):
who shot a young mother. She was the officer too,
and he was training her. I'd believe to work in
the library or something like that. He shot her like
as a joke. He turned around, pulled out his gun.
He says he meant to pull out his practice or
dummy gun or something like that. He pulled out his
real gun, shot her in the chest in the class,
in front of everybody. There's a video of this. She
dies on the floor and he's throwing his hands up like,
(19:27):
oh my god, I didn't There's no audio, so I
don't know this is what he's saying, but you could
see that. You know what a human being is going through.
And you see his reaction to that moment, and everybody's
freaking out, especially him. He tries to do CPR, that
sort of stuff. He was training the class. Okay, Also,
this training narrative has existed since the fifties sixties civil
(19:50):
rights movement. I looked it up. It's one of those
political zombies that never dies. Like trickled down economic. It
doesn't work. You've had decades to try it. It's not
a real thing. Well, I tell you what. Police training
doesn't work. I looked that up. I have a whole
episode on that on the Black Information Network Daily podcast.
(20:14):
I did the research. Police training does not work. In fact,
the best results showed that officers' behaviors changed somewhat for
about a month and then they reverted to type, and
I think that's indicative of the overwhelming influence of police culture.
(20:41):
When people talk about the system, I think that the
culture is a big part of that. And so being
a police officer taking a moment and ducking out and
getting training here and there, that doesn't stick. What more
than likely is going to stick is that culture. You
get back in with your guys, you're moving around, you
get you know, start consuming the same media and conversation
(21:02):
with same people to feel the same way, and you're
revert to type and back at it. And as we've seen,
we can't even trust the training officers with a gun.
So guns are dangerous. Police culture is dangerous, And there's
a stunning silence from the masses. Not for me in UQ,
but a stunning silence. There was a moment where some
(21:23):
people became a little bit more critical in twenty twenty,
but all these police shootings that we've seen since then,
no protests, no nothing, you know, I know that there's
no pandemic.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Even more strange than it was blaming the increase in
police violence against citizens on the idea that we protested
against man.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I don't know how these these wicked, weird like do
we not live in the same reality. How are you
able to get that off and it float anywhere? But
this is what we felt you needed to know today,
so we'll leave it right there. As always, i'd like
to thank you for tuning into CIVICXCPT once again, I'm
your host, Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
He is Ramsay's Jah. I am q Ward. Thank you
guys for joining us, like our stuff, comment, subscribe, follow
us on social media, on all your digital podcasting platforms,
and on radio stations all over the United States. Thank
you guys for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, that means a lot to us. And what
we said, what we said, we really meant. If you've
listened to this show, it really means a lot to us.
To follow us on social media that includes YouTube. YouTube
is a big one for us because we're really trying
to grow there.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The special for you guys on YouTube, So please follow.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Us every every platform except Twitter. We don't do that.
That's for the birds.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Is that what it's called?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Now? X whatever I think you said he's going to
start charging people, But anyway, we're not on that one.
We're on all the rest. Follow us on all the
platforms like support, comment, help us battle these trolls. We're
trying to change the world. We need your help and
you can help us do it. So until next week, y'all.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Peace,
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