May 9, 2023 • 39 mins
Dr. Skerrett is known for her work in the areas of secondary English and literacy education in urban contexts, including among transnational youth. Dr. Skerrett’s book, Teaching Transnational Youth: Literacy and Education in a Changing World published by Teachers College Press in 2015, is the first to examine the educational opportunities and challenges arising from increasing numbers of students living and attending school across different countries. Her new book, Teaching Literacy in Troubled Times: Identity, Inquiry and Social Action at the Heart of Instruction, co-authored with past Classroom Caffeine guest Peter Smaroginsky and published by Corwin Press in 2022 showcases teachers and students engaged in developing critical literacies and taking social action to create more just worlds. She is the keynote speaker for the 2023 RISE Caribbean Conference hosted at the University of South Florida in Tampa, Florida. Allison Skerrett is Professor of Curriculum and Instruction and Director of Teacher Education in the College of Education at The University of Texas at Austin.
To cite this episode:
Persohn, L. (Host). (2023, May. 9). A conversation with Allison Skerrett: RISE Caribbean Special Series (Season 3, No. 24) [Audio podcast episode]. In Classroom Caffeine Podcast series. https://www.classroomcaffeine.com/guests. DOI: 10.5240/9D8C-84C1-8FB6-1C92-61E0-6
Connect with Classroom Caffeine at www.classroomcaffeine.com or on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
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Episode Transcript
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Lindsay Persohn (00:10):
Education research has a problem. The work
of brilliant educationresearchers often doesn't reach
the practice of brilliantteachers. Classroom caffeine is
here to help. In each episode Italk with a top education
researcher or an expert educatorabout what they have learned
(00:31):
from years of research andexperiences.
Hello classroom caffeinelisteners, we are hosting a
special series of episodes toshare with you some of the work
involving past classroomcaffeine guest, my colleague and
friend Dr. Patriann Smith. Thisspecial series is intended to
(00:54):
share work associated with anupcoming conference.
Specifically, these episodesshine light on research taking
place in the Caribbean islandswith both specific contextual
nuance and universalapplicability. Dr. Smith, with
many others is involved in theCaribbean Educational Research
Initiative officially referredto as the research initiative
(01:16):
for supporting education in theCaribbean or RISE Caribbean.
This initiative is a partnershipbetween the United States Agency
for International Development,the University of the West
Indies, Cave Hill campus, theUniversity of South Florida and
the eastern Caribbean JointBoard of Teacher Education. The
Caribbean Educational ResearchCenter launched as a part of the
(01:39):
initiative in 2021 is designedto serve the Eastern Caribbean
Islands, which consists of sixindependent countries Antigua
and Barbuda, Barbados, Dominica,Grenada, Saint Kitts and Nevis,
Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent andthe Grenadines and also three
British Overseas Territories,The Virgin Islands, Montserrat
(02:01):
and Anguilla. This center ishoused at the University of West
Indies Cave Hill campus inBarbados with the capability to
generate and utilize robust datafor improved decision making and
basic education throughout theregion. The Caribbean
Educational Research Centerdraws on research expertise from
the University of West IndiesSchool of Education, UWI's other
(02:24):
campuses the University of SouthFlorida ministries of education
and the teacher educationdivisions of the national
Colleges of the EasternCaribbean and the teachers
college in Barbados in harmonywith the aim of building
research capacity in the region.
The center providesassistantships and internships
for graduate students pursuingresearch degrees in education
and related fields and stafffrom the ministries of education
(02:47):
and the National colleges whowork with classroom teachers to
investigate classroom phenomena.
The RISE Caribbean initiative isexpected to ultimately establish
a repository for education datafor the countries in the East
Caribbean and Barbados. Conductdemand driven research and
analysis to inform policy andplanning for ministries of
(03:08):
education and other stakeholdersin education build a capacity
for research and training withstudents and education
stakeholders conduct and supportcomparative and collaborative
research with higher educationinstitutions in and outside of
the region and strengthenresearch culture through
publications, public lectures,and other means of sharing
research findings. One of themajor activities of the RISE
(03:31):
Caribbean initiative is anannual conference designed to
support the Center's researchfellows and research assistants
to this end, the rise Caribbean2023 conference, building
solidarity across educationalcommunities, cultivating spaces
where students thrive, aims toharness the power of community,
interconnectedness, andinclusivity in our collective
(03:52):
efforts to create and sustaineducational spaces for students
to succeed. The RISE Caribbeanconference includes sessions
that imagine possibilitiesaround which we can plan
collectively to improve theexperiences wellbeing and
educational outcomes for allchildren, especially those for
whom achievement, equity andjustice have long been withheld.
(04:12):
This classroom caffeine specialseries highlights scholars who
are integral to the work of theRISE Caribbean Initiative and
the rise Caribbean conferencehosted at the University of
South Florida Tampa, May 30.
Through June first 2023.
In this episode, Dr. AlisonSkerrett talks to us about
(04:32):
literate identities listening toyoung people, transnational
youth and continuousprofessional learning. Dr.
Skerrett is known for her workin the areas of secondary
English and literacy educationin urban contexts, including
among transnational youth Dr.
Skerret's book Teachingtransnational youth literacy and
education in a changing worldpublished by teachers college
(04:55):
press in 2015 is the first toexamine the educational
opportunities and challengesarising from increasing numbers
of students living and attendingschools across different
countries. Her new book teachingliteracy in troubled times
identity inquiry and socialaction at the heart of
instruction co authored withpast classroom caffeine guest
(05:16):
Peter smagorinsky and publishedby Corwin press in 2022.
showcases teachers and studentsengaged in developing critical
literacies and taking socialaction to create more just
worlds. She is the keynotespeaker for the 2023 RISE
Caribbean conference hosted atthe University of South Florida
in Tampa, Florida. AlisonSkerrett is professor of
(05:39):
Curriculum and Instruction anddirector of teacher education in
the College of Education at theUniversity of Texas at Austin.
For more information about ourguest, stay tuned to the end of
this episode. So pour a cup ofyour favorite drink. And join me
your host Lindsay Persohn. Forclassroom caffeine research to
(06:01):
energize your teaching practice.
Alison, thank you for joiningme. Welcome to the show.
Allison Skerrett (06:09):
Thank you for having me, Lindsay.
Lindsay Persohn (06:11):
So from your own experiences and education,
will you share with us one ortwo moments that inform your
thinking now,
Allison Skerrett (06:19):
great, and a great way to start, I would
start with my time as a highschool teacher and a high school
English teacher in Boston publicschools. So this is probably not
so much a moment, but probablymore a season in my professional
life. And what strikes me aboutthat time, is how my students
and I over the years we've beenworking together, had managed to
(06:42):
build a really close community,we were a really culturally and
linguistically diverse group ofpeople, I lived in a community,
we connected on a lot ofcultural aspects, a lot of
community aspects and that sortof thing. And what's striking to
me about that time was despiteall of these wonderful
connections and the communitythat we have, that when it was
(07:04):
time for us to sort of get downto work, if you will, with our
curriculum, there seem to be anow I think I can name this this
sense of disappointment that mystudents have sort of maybe
entered this space as we wereworking. And there were days
when they would put forth quitea bit of effort to engage with
(07:25):
the text that we were reading.
And other days when they justwere not really feeling up to
working within the cannon. So itwas interesting to think about
the contrast, between the timewe were just engaged in
conversation talking about ourworlds and our interests, when I
would allow them to bring intheir music and talk about, you
(07:46):
know, the the lyrics that theywere composing and things like
that, that time of joy andcommunity and togetherness and
sort of what happened when webegan reading our Shakespeare
texts and things of that nature.
And back then at the time, Ithink like like most teachers, I
was trying to be responsive andtrying to engage my students in
(08:09):
terms of the activities that Ibrought in to support this, this
reading this curriculum. Butoverall, it fell far short of
what they needed from from me intheir language arts curriculum.
And so when I entered mydoctoral work, even at that
time, I think I, I didn't reallyget into studying issues of
(08:30):
literacy as practice and multiliteracies and things like that
I, I had a wonderful program.
And I learned a lot and I thinkI did some good work within my
in my dissertation continuing tolook at how language arts
teachers thought about thecurriculum, in you know, in
terms of being responsive totheir diverse learners, I but I
didn't really have the languagethat I now apply in my work
(08:51):
until I got to my first facultyposition where I started doing a
study with a colleague, where wewent into a reading teacher's
classroom, a high schoolclassroom and started working
with her as she sought to makeher reading curriculum more
responsive to her studentslives. And these were students
who had been labeled asstruggling readers. But in fact,
they were much like my studentsthat I had taught brilliant and
(09:13):
amazing but had not really beengiven curricular opportunities
to thrive. And so in workingwith both these colleagues, a
classroom teacher and mycolleague at the university, I
came to begin reading aboutnotions of literacy is practice
and multi literacies, and thatsort of thing. And with the
teacher enacting this pedagogyin order to support her students
(09:36):
reading practices andstrengthening their reading
identities, I came to reallyunderstand what it was that had
been really missing in my ownknowledge and understandings and
stances as a teacher. And sothat is really sort of a
defining moment for me. I thinkmy research program around youth
and literacy practices reallytook off from from that
(09:57):
experience and I have continuedfrom that time to really center
the lives of young people and inthe work that I do, and to
listen carefully to what they'resaying about who they are as
literate people out in theworld, and to think about what
what then that means for theliteracy curriculum that we
(10:18):
offer them in secondaryclassrooms. So, so I think
that's, that's really a keydefining moment. And then the
second one is also an, I think,an outgrowth of that study as
well. And that's the newer,although it's not so new
anymore. But the newer area ofmy work on transnational Youth.
During that time that I workedin that classroom, I came to
(10:39):
learn about the lives of anumber of students in that focal
classroom, who had a beak, thishappened in Texas, and they
fought the ones who did haveties to other nations, those
ties were to Mexico. And I wasreally interested in how they
talked about their literacypractices that spanned borders,
these national borders. At thetime, I didn't have the language
(11:00):
with transnationalism. But I wasvery interested in understanding
how the literacies sort ofshifted or had a particular
character, because they leadthese lives they and their
families, families led theselives across borders. And so in
writing, about one of the youngwomen who I now know, was a
transnational student, I sort ofwith the help of some really
(11:23):
knowledgeable and kind reviewersat one journal that I was trying
to publish in, sort of gotdirected to study the literature
on transnationalism. And it wasthis aha moment, oh, she's a
transnational young woman. Thisis what I'm sort of noticing
about her life and herliteracies. But then what struck
me as I continued to read inthat area, and begin to pub
(11:44):
publish in that area was not acomplete silence. But but almost
that, in the literature aroundblack transnational students, we
had a lot of literature andcontinue to have a lot of
literature about the experiencesof primarily Mexican American
border crossing youth, AsianAmerican transnational students
to a particular extent, but lessso on students who identify as
(12:06):
Black or, you know, from othercountries. And so because of my
own identity and background, assomeone who is from the
Caribbean, and with a familythat has led a transnational
life, for as long as I canremember, I began intentionally
looking to study the experiencesof Black youth with Caribbean
(12:27):
origins, who identify astransnational, who they may not
personally identify astransnational, but who, based in
the literature, I can sort ofthink about as transnational
young people. And I beganthinking about what what could
we add to the conversation? Howcan we open up a conversation?
What more could we learn andunderstand if we paid more
attention to that particulardemographic, and included them
(12:48):
in this conversation aroundtransnationalism. And it's
through that work at unite, Ibecame very familiar with the
work of Patriann Smith, her workon Black immigrant youth and
their, their literacies, totranslate literacies. And all of
the wonderful work that she doesin that in that geographical
space. And with that, that groupof people, young people, and
(13:11):
teachers and teacher educators.
And so that's been a wonderfulconnection, and I've just really
been enjoying doing work in thisarea over the last few years.
Lindsay Persohn (13:22):
Thank you so much for that not only
informative, I think, reallycompelling response to that
first question. And just forlisteners advantage, Patriann
Smith has a fairly recentepisode of classroom caffeine
that we can link to on your pageas well, Allison, but something
you said that I think reallystruck me as a critical part of
this conversation is, you talkedabout, of course, transnational
(13:44):
youth, and what literacy meansacross these borders and
boundaries. And as you weretalking about that, I was
thinking that our borders arelargely imagined, right? There's
no real line in the sandanywhere. And so for schools to
put up these kinds of borders orboundaries for kids, and you
know, what they do in onegeographical space isn't valued
(14:06):
in other geographical spaces.
There are so many, again,artificial lines, I think, that
are drawn there. That can bereally hard for teachers to
navigate, I would say, andcertainly very hard for students
to navigate. Why is one form ofliteracy valued in one space
while it isn't in another? Andso I'm hoping that will really
help us to unpack that and thinkabout some potential solutions
for classroom teachers inresponse to this next question.
(14:30):
So Allison, what do you wantlisteners to know about your
work?
Allison Skerrett (14:36):
I think one.
One way I would like people tounderstand my work is that it's
really centered on listening tothe voices of young people. And
I like to think that that is aconnection to my work as a
classroom teacher. And my workas a researcher and also my work
(14:57):
As a teacher, educator, someonethat prepares English teachers
to go out into into classrooms,I think that it's it's really
important. And I think lots ofus do this as as teachers to
think about who our studentsare, as we sort of imagine and
plan for our teaching andlearning with them. And I know
(15:20):
that it, it can feel sometimesthat we were handed a curriculum
that we sort of have toimplement and in some places in
cases that have to is prettyemphatic, it's pretty strong,
but I always remind my preservice teachers that there are
no no rules or laws againstgetting to know your students
(15:42):
and to creating a space wherethey can authentically share who
they are and, and what they dowith with literacy. And from
there, we can begin thinkingabout our our have tos and our
musts. And I think one of ourmusts is really disposition to
must, must give our students aplace where they can thrive an
(16:06):
opportunity to access thecurriculum and an opportunity to
access becoming strongerliterate people. And so I think
it takes years for for teachersto develop and finesse this,
this practice of understandinghow to make deep and authentic
connections between who theirstudents are and what they know
(16:27):
and what they can do. And whatthe literacy curriculum is
offering them in schools, and ittakes years to finesse, what are
have to curriculum that's handedto us what that looks like and,
and reimagining it in a way thatdoes make these connections. So
I do acknowledge that thelandscape is hard, and it and
(16:47):
depending on where you teach it,you know, can be more
challenging than in otherplaces. And I, I'm conscious of
the fact that when I taught inclassroom back in the 90s, we
were in a different landscapethan we are now. But when I work
with my pre service teachers andwithin service teachers, I find
that there are stillopportunities to just learn
(17:10):
about who our young people are.
And to think about how we canmake these connections, I'm
always reminded of thisbeautiful phrase that this
reading teacher offered to herstudents. So she she had had
this practice of beginning eachyear with her students, but she
taught half year courses. So weyou know, each semester, a
(17:32):
couple of semesters, by doingthis inquiry with students into
the illiterate lives, they hadopportunities to think about the
definition of literacy. And shebecause she was informed by
notions of literacy as practice,she was able to open up these
definitions that they wouldfirst offer literacy being, you
know, reading and writing tohelp them think about literacy
(17:53):
as meaning making practices andto help them identify the things
that they loved. And wereliteracy lived in them through a
variety of practices. And I talkabout her quite a bit and her
her work in my book, teachingtransnational youth. And she
would say to her students, youhave this line, all literacies
are connected, but we have toshow how they're connected. And
(18:16):
I take that phrase with mebecause I see her too for
herself. Because we would haveconversations about this after
most of her classes. You know,for her as a teacher, she felt
that it was her responsibilityto think about how are those
literacies connected, so shecould make these authentic
connections for her students.
And so if she needed to, shecould explain and advocate with
(18:37):
her colleagues oradministration, why she was
doing what she was doing in theclasses because these literacies
weren't connected. And I thinkthat's a big part of our work as
teachers in classrooms today tothink about how are these
literacies connected because itbecomes advocacy work, it
becomes intellectual work forourselves, right? And for the it
has a lot of implications forthe work that we're able to do
(18:59):
with students.
Lindsay Persohn (19:02):
I would totally agree with that. And it sounds
rather familiar. That'ssomething that I talk with my
pre service teachers about is,you know, being able to justify
what you're doing. Because ifpush comes to shove, there are
many times that I think havingsome sort of response to those
kinds of critical questions orat minimum, understanding what
you're doing so that you canformulate a response to any sort
(19:22):
of critical pushback that youmay get. I think that is very
important. But it also remindsme of just how much teachers
have to know in order to be ableto do that. And you mentioned
earlier this learning journeythat teachers are always on with
their students. And I couldn'tagree more I think that teachers
have got to see themselves aslearners, continuous learners,
(19:45):
lifelong learners, because thereis so much to learn and it does
change over time. As you alludedto, you know, teaching in the in
the 90s is different thanteaching pre pandemic is
different than than it is now.
So, it is an ever Shiftingfield. But that doesn't mean
that we give up everything weknow about good practice. But
certainly anchoring, what we doand what we know, with the young
(20:09):
people who are right in front ofus, I think is just it's so
critical. And it does reallysupport engagement with learning
for both students and forteachers. So this is just it's
such critical work to thinkabout how we learn from our
students, and then how we makethose connections when things
seem disconnected. Yes,absolutely. So Allison, what
(20:30):
else would you like listeners toknow about your work?
Allison Skerrett (20:34):
Well, I'll go back to what I started talking
about in terms of work thatreally listens to the voices of
young people. One definingfeature or characteristic of my
work is, is that there's there'svery little that I published
that doesn't have the voices ofyoung people all over it, I
(20:54):
think it's really important tocreate space for educators and
policymakers, reallystakeholders to hear the voices
of young people to hear theirstories to hear their
reflections on what schooling islike for them what they need,
from a literacy classroom, howthey're using literacy in their,
in their homes and in theircommunities. So I think we have
(21:17):
a lot to learn from youngpeople. And so I think one way
that I use my work as a vehicleI hope to create change is is by
centering the voices of theyoung people. And then from
there, I also think it's soimportant to think about that
classroom teacher, what doesthat what does that mean for for
(21:39):
them, depending on where theyare in their journey as a
teacher, where they may beteaching who they may be
teaching? So what are theimplications for practice,
similar populations, differentpopulations, similar spaces, or,
you know, or different spaces.
So that's, you know, that'sreally important, you know, to
me as well. So I, if I thinksort of about the work that I
(22:01):
do, and places that I sort ofcamped out along the way, in
terms of a research program,you'll see that in my early
years as a scholar, althougheverything is connected to the
language arts curriculum, you'llsee more of a focus on on
teachers on in service teachersin my early work. And that's
because I sort of entered theworld of of research thinking
(22:23):
very much about the place or theidentity that I had just sort of
left that of a high schoolEnglish teacher, who was really
grappling to make sense ofliteracy, curriculum literacy
policy, and what that meant forTeaching Diverse Learners. So
I've done quite a bit of workaround teachers, professional
(22:43):
learning, and communities ofpractice. And this is a thread
that I sort of bring into mywork now as well. When I think
about how do how do teacherslearn? And what do teachers?
What did teachers need? Whatkinds of environments do they
need in order to learn and tothrive as well? I think that
although you know, I've beentalking quite a bit about this,
(23:05):
this one teacher, you know, andI think back to her, she was
sort of a lone wolf out, youknow, out there in her school.
And she was aware of this, andshe intentionally she, she was a
sort of your typical languagearts teacher, but then because
she had been studying in agraduate program, and she really
wanted to work with young peopleat her school to bring to life,
(23:28):
some of the things she waslearning around literacy and
young people as agents ofliterate lives. And because
also, she was beginning to workin an increasingly scrutinized
space. And she knew that shewould not be able to do the kind
of teaching that she most wantedto do. She sort of opted to
(23:49):
become a reading teacher at atthat school. So while she was a
lone wolf, she, she knew she hadthe space and the freedom as
long as the test scores weredoing fine. No one would really
be concerned about exactly whatit was she was doing in there,
you know, and so maybe peoplethought she students were sort
(24:09):
of sitting in front of thatcomputer during that reading
program for those 50 minuteblocks, when in fact, that was
not what was going on in herclassroom at all. It was what I
described earlier, but not allEnglish teachers can escape to
those places. And I think youcan only be a lone wolf for so
long if you can't at all so soone connecting thread, you know,
(24:29):
in my early work and teachers,professional learning,
communities of practice is how Ithink now about the work of
teachers in terms of comingtogether to learn also, but also
thinking about teacherscommunities of practice. So I
I've done a fair amount of studyof English departments and how
teachers learn within languagearts departments and leadership
(24:50):
and language arts departments.
But now when I think about, youknow, those spaces, I think
about it more in terms of ourcurrent landscape and notions of
advocacy notions of spreadingthe kinds of practices that
I've, I've been describing. Sothat there, there's just a lot
of power, and there's sort ofmore people to speak back to
(25:12):
them that lone teacher in theirclassroom, then you know, when
it can be, I think easier to, tofeel fearful and feel frightened
and feel intimidated. And ifyou've got a department, a group
of colleagues working togetherin principled ways to share
practice, and so that's, Ithink, another dimension of of
my work that I would, I wouldlike teachers to, to be aware of
(25:36):
my colleagues, Petersmagorinsky. And I mentioned
Peter, earlier this afternoon,we have a new book that is
really about what's calledteaching literacy in troubled
times. But this is a recent bookin which we really take up
critical issues and criticaltopics that that teachers need
(25:56):
to be teaching about, within alandscape of great social
upheaval and politicalconstraints and threats in
public schools. So we reallytake on this landscape, that
it's a troubled time in oursociety, it's a troubled time in
education, but these troubledtimes really do sort of
underscore the need for acritical form of teaching. And
(26:19):
I'm really proud of that work.
Because for the book, wepartnered with literacy teachers
across different parts of thecountry. And we worked with them
in terms of developing somedifferent curriculum units, each
related to a critical sort ofcomponent of literacy. So for
example, there's a chapter onteaching racial literacy, and
(26:41):
with teachers sort of piloting,adapting this, you know, this
curriculum, these differentdesigns, unit designs before
their own classes, you know,they taught these units to their
students, their students producesome amazing work, the teachers
reflected on how things went andthe students reflected as well
in the work. And so you havethis book where you've got
(27:04):
teachers, voices, and they'retheir reflections on this work
that they did with theirstudents, you've got students
reflections on their learning interms of learning about racial
literacy and inquiring intotheir global communities and
things like that really powerfulstuff. So I'm really proud of
that, because it just it's ait's a way of showcasing the
practices of really courageousand really smart teachers who've
(27:28):
found a way to teach critically,within a really troubling
landscape. And because we're allstill very much living in this
landscape right now. I thinkit's a really a piece of
encouragement for teachers. Andit's, I think it's sort of
shines a light on sort of thepossibilities of teaching in
(27:49):
ways that our students need usto be teaching, despite all
that's going on around us.
Lindsay Persohn (27:56):
Yes, absolutely. Inspiration,
encouragement, you know, andperhaps even some practical
ideas as to how folks can getstarted on that. Or if they're
feeling stuck, or, orparticularly boxed in by their
environment, or the curriculum,it's handed to them really
important work to sort of breakus out out of that thinking to
(28:18):
break us out of someone else'smold, in order to best serve the
young people who are right infront of us. So that's great.
Thank you so much for that,Allison. And that actually
segues really beautifully intothis last question, given the
challenges of today'seducational climate, what
message do you want teachers tohear?
Allison Skerrett (28:35):
Yes, I think you're right. I probably have
been sort of addressing this,this question and what I, I was
just sort of, in my remarks afew moments ago, I think
continuing on that thread. Youknow, we've been talking about
working with pre serviceteachers, some of the
conversations I have with my preservice teachers have to do with
(28:56):
this idea that teaching hasalways been political work. It's
always been hard teachers havealways had to take a stand.
It's, it seems like thatdimension of teaching is has a
huge underscore, right, rightnow, but in fact, you know,
education has always beenpolitical. And so maybe it's
(29:19):
more so that for those of us whohave perhaps like to feel that
we were pretty neutral, or wecan be neutral or that we can go
about our our work, and not sortof get caught up in the fray
maybe for us now, we're feelinga little bit more uncomfortable,
because the scrutiny is thatmuch higher and particular
(29:42):
people have the language that wewe've been using for some time
now. And you probably probablywish they didn't know quite as
much as they do about the termsthat we use to guide our
thinking and our practice. And,you know, I'm very much thinking
of those of us in highereducation as well. It's it's an
interesting time because in thepast, those of us in higher ed
(30:03):
could have looked to ourcolleagues in the K 12 classroom
and say, can you believe whatthey're telling teachers they
can or cannot do. And now we'reright in there with with our
colleagues in K 12. We havedirect messages in many places,
telling teacher educators anduniversity professors what they
can and cannot teach. So it's atime of speaking to all of us,
(30:26):
it's a time of reckoning for allof us in terms of really sort of
accepting that our work is ispolitical. So I would go back
then to what I was sharing interms of how to teachers come
together to, to advocate for,you know, for their practices, I
think, in a lot of cases, thenarratives are being constructed
(30:48):
for us in terms of what we'reteaching and what what we're not
teaching the ideas we areforwarding to our students or
not. And I I wondering, this isa wondering aloud with all of
us, all of us and educators, nomatter the level that we teach,
I'm wondering, how are we comingtogether to construct
(31:09):
alternative narratives and moreauthentic narratives about the
work that we're doing? And howare we positioning ourselves to
get the message these messagesout into the political spaces
where they need to get out inorder to really fight for our
practices. And so I think it isa really important time because,
(31:31):
as I said, we're no longer thoseof us in higher ed, we're not
we're not excused, we're notsafe. We don't have the
privilege or the luxury of sortof, let me work alongside the
classroom teacher and thinkabout how I can support them. We
all share in this greatresponsibility to think about
how do we tell a a moreauthentic story of what we're
(31:56):
teaching and why it's importantto teach, what we're teaching?
And how do we rally support fromour communities, and families,
in order to ensure that ourstudents, all of our students
sort of get the kind of learningopportunities that they deserve.
So that's what I think, really,Lindsay about the moment we're
(32:18):
living in right now. And thework that we have to do, some of
us are feeling pretty proud andconfident in the curriculums
that we've developed and thelearning opportunities that
we've created for our students.
But now we're finding we need toprotect them, we need to fight
for them, we need to be worriedabout continuing to be able to
do what we need to do for theshift. For those of us who have
(32:39):
become very curriculum savvy andvery sophisticated in our
practices, we probably are notas sophisticated and experienced
in advocating for teaching inthe ways that we want to and
it's a set of skills andknowledge and dispositions that
we need to be building up atevery level of education. I
think, and I think this is thenew moment that that we're in
(33:00):
right now.
Lindsay Persohn (33:03):
I think you're I think you're so right in
several things. She said there,Allison, I think that this
really is a very importantpolitical moment. Yes, teaching
has always been political. But Ithink that between the pandemic
and so much of legislationthat's been introduced and
passed recently, teachers havereally been thrust into a
spotlight in already doing avery challenging job, a
(33:27):
wonderful, wonderful, butchallenging job. And something
else you said, really made methink about how did teachers
come together to advocate it ismy hope that a show like
classroom caffeine can giveteachers some tools and some
path forward to navigate theresources to know the people to
have those ideas sort of at theready, right, whenever they are
(33:48):
critically questioned? Orwhenever there's pushback,
because what I'm finding is thatI think so often in the
political realm, yes, folks haveadopted the language, but they
may not have the nuance ofunderstanding of what those
terms actually mean, right, orwhat is right. So I find that
often the terms that that wecome to understand on a very
(34:09):
deep level, end up just sort ofbeing copied and pasted into
these conversations, right andinto bills that are introduced.
And so you know, being prepared,having some sort of response or
the situatedness of those ideas,I think can be a great help in
that conversation. I don't knowthat it will fix anything so to
(34:29):
speak. But I think it'simportant that teachers feel
they have power in thesesituations. Yeah, it's it is it
is a very challenging time. Andcertainly teachers do have
opportunities to introducealternative narratives into
political spaces. And I hopethat's where we're headed. I
know it sometimes it all feelspretty overwhelming. When you
(34:52):
combine that with the day to dayof teaching. We'll keep on
keepin on, won't we?
Allison Skerrett (34:57):
We will. We will and you know We need to I
think, to keep our hope we needto keep our inspiration, we need
to find the educators that aredoing good work, we need to find
the allies that are fighting forthe work that we're doing as
well. So yes, it is, it is adifficult time. But I, I'm of
the School of being hopeful, andfinding the stories that will
(35:21):
energize and inspire withoutbeing pollyannish. Of course, if
we don't respond and respond ina very smart way, we could lose
some ground, at least for sometime. So I'm not romanticizing
the hope at the moment, but Ithink we can always choose to
adopt a posture of hope andpossibility. And so I hope, I
(35:41):
hope that's where we can sort ofcollectively stand right in this
Lindsay Persohn (35:46):
Absolutely. And I know for me, anytime I feel
moment.
like I might be losing a bit ofhope. I just go talk to a young
person, right. They are soinspirational, the way they
think about the world and theconnections they're already
making. So it's an opportunityfor us to put some of those
pieces together and to helpguide them forward in ways that
are positive and productive forthemselves and for for their
(36:08):
peers. So yes. So Allison, Ithank you so much for your time
today. Thank you for talkingwith me, and I thank you for
your contributions to the fieldof education.
Allison Skerrett (36:18):
Thank you so much, Lindsay. It was a
pleasure. I enjoyed theconversation, really had a
wonderful time, so thank you forhaving me.
Lindsay Persohn (36:25):
Thank you. Dr.
Allison Skerrett is known forher work in the areas of
secondary English and literacyeducation in urban contexts,
including among transnationalyouth. Professor Skerrett's
teaching and research focus onyoung people's literacy
practices, secondary Englisheducation and Transnationalism
toward educational justice fordiverse students. Her
(36:47):
publications appear in leadingeducational journals such as the
American Educational ResearchJournal and reading Research
Quarterly, Dr. Skerrett's book,teaching transnational youth
literacy and education in achanging world published by
teachers college press in 2015is the first to examine the
educational opportunities andchallenges arising from
(37:10):
increasing numbers of studentsliving and attending schools
across different countries. Hernew book teaching literacy in
troubled times identity inquiryand social action at the heart
of instruction, published byCorwin press in 2022, showcases
teachers and students engaged indeveloping critical literacies
and taking social action tocreate more just worlds. She is
(37:33):
currently an editor for theJournal of literacy research and
serves on other national andinternational journal editorial
review boards. Dr. Skerrett alsoserves on national and
international educationaladvisory boards including the US
National Assessment ofEducational Progress Reading
Panel, the research advisorycommittee of the Caribbean
(37:56):
Education Council, andScotland's International Council
of Education advisors, Dr.
Skerrett has received awards forher research and teaching
including the literacy researchAssociation's Early Career
Achievement Award, the Edward Bfry Book Award, and the
Elizabeth Chateau Massey Awardfor Excellence in teacher
(38:17):
education. Alison Skerrett isprofessor of Curriculum and
Instruction and director ofteacher education in the College
of Education at the Universityof Texas at Austin. For the good
of all students classroomcaffeine aims to energize
education research and practice.
If this show provides you withthings to think about, don't
(38:39):
keep it a secret. Subscribe,like and review this podcast
through your preferred podcastprovider. I also invite you to
connect with the show throughour website at WWW dot classroom
caffeine.com where you can learnmore about each guest. Find
transcripts for many episodes,explore episode topics using our
(39:01):
tagging feature, supportpodcast, research through our
survey, request an episode topicor a potential guest or share
your own questions that we mightrespond to through the show. We
would love to hear from you. Asalways, I raised my mug to you
teachers. Thanks for joining
Education research has a problem. The work
of brilliant educationresearchers often doesn't reach
the practice of brilliantteachers. Classroom caffeine is
here to help. In each episode Italk with a top education
researcher or an expert educatorabout what they have learned
(00:31):
from years of research andexperiences.
Hello classroom caffeinelisteners, we are hosting a
special series of episodes toshare with you some of the work
involving past classroomcaffeine guest, my colleague and
friend Dr. Patriann Smith. Thisspecial series is intended to
(00:54):
share work associated with anupcoming conference.
Specifically, these episodesshine light on research taking
place in the Caribbean islandswith both specific contextual
nuance and universalapplicability. Dr. Smith, with
many others is involved in theCaribbean Educational Research
Initiative officially referredto as the research initiative
(01:16):
for supporting education in theCaribbean or RISE Caribbean.
This initiative is a partnershipbetween the United States Agency
for International Development,the University of the West
Indies, Cave Hill campus, theUniversity of South Florida and
the eastern Caribbean JointBoard of Teacher Education. The
Caribbean Educational ResearchCenter launched as a part of the
(01:39):
initiative in 2021 is designedto serve the Eastern Caribbean
Islands, which consists of sixindependent countries Antigua
and Barbuda, Barbados, Dominica,Grenada, Saint Kitts and Nevis,
Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent andthe Grenadines and also three
British Overseas Territories,The Virgin Islands, Montserrat
(02:01):
and Anguilla. This center ishoused at the University of West
Indies Cave Hill campus inBarbados with the capability to
generate and utilize robust datafor improved decision making and
basic education throughout theregion. The Caribbean
Educational Research Centerdraws on research expertise from
the University of West IndiesSchool of Education, UWI's other
(02:24):
campuses the University of SouthFlorida ministries of education
and the teacher educationdivisions of the national
Colleges of the EasternCaribbean and the teachers
college in Barbados in harmonywith the aim of building
research capacity in the region.
The center providesassistantships and internships
for graduate students pursuingresearch degrees in education
and related fields and stafffrom the ministries of education
(02:47):
and the National colleges whowork with classroom teachers to
investigate classroom phenomena.
The RISE Caribbean initiative isexpected to ultimately establish
a repository for education datafor the countries in the East
Caribbean and Barbados. Conductdemand driven research and
analysis to inform policy andplanning for ministries of
(03:08):
education and other stakeholdersin education build a capacity
for research and training withstudents and education
stakeholders conduct and supportcomparative and collaborative
research with higher educationinstitutions in and outside of
the region and strengthenresearch culture through
publications, public lectures,and other means of sharing
research findings. One of themajor activities of the RISE
(03:31):
Caribbean initiative is anannual conference designed to
support the Center's researchfellows and research assistants
to this end, the rise Caribbean2023 conference, building
solidarity across educationalcommunities, cultivating spaces
where students thrive, aims toharness the power of community,
interconnectedness, andinclusivity in our collective
(03:52):
efforts to create and sustaineducational spaces for students
to succeed. The RISE Caribbeanconference includes sessions
that imagine possibilitiesaround which we can plan
collectively to improve theexperiences wellbeing and
educational outcomes for allchildren, especially those for
whom achievement, equity andjustice have long been withheld.
(04:12):
This classroom caffeine specialseries highlights scholars who
are integral to the work of theRISE Caribbean Initiative and
the rise Caribbean conferencehosted at the University of
South Florida Tampa, May 30.
Through June first 2023.
In this episode, Dr. AlisonSkerrett talks to us about
(04:32):
literate identities listening toyoung people, transnational
youth and continuousprofessional learning. Dr.
Skerrett is known for her workin the areas of secondary
English and literacy educationin urban contexts, including
among transnational youth Dr.
Skerret's book Teachingtransnational youth literacy and
education in a changing worldpublished by teachers college
(04:55):
press in 2015 is the first toexamine the educational
opportunities and challengesarising from increasing numbers
of students living and attendingschools across different
countries. Her new book teachingliteracy in troubled times
identity inquiry and socialaction at the heart of
instruction co authored withpast classroom caffeine guest
(05:16):
Peter smagorinsky and publishedby Corwin press in 2022.
showcases teachers and studentsengaged in developing critical
literacies and taking socialaction to create more just
worlds. She is the keynotespeaker for the 2023 RISE
Caribbean conference hosted atthe University of South Florida
in Tampa, Florida. AlisonSkerrett is professor of
(05:39):
Curriculum and Instruction anddirector of teacher education in
the College of Education at theUniversity of Texas at Austin.
For more information about ourguest, stay tuned to the end of
this episode. So pour a cup ofyour favorite drink. And join me
your host Lindsay Persohn. Forclassroom caffeine research to
(06:01):
energize your teaching practice.
Alison, thank you for joiningme. Welcome to the show.
Allison Skerrett (06:09):
Thank you for having me, Lindsay.
Lindsay Persohn (06:11):
So from your own experiences and education,
will you share with us one ortwo moments that inform your
thinking now,
Allison Skerrett (06:19):
great, and a great way to start, I would
start with my time as a highschool teacher and a high school
English teacher in Boston publicschools. So this is probably not
so much a moment, but probablymore a season in my professional
life. And what strikes me aboutthat time, is how my students
and I over the years we've beenworking together, had managed to
(06:42):
build a really close community,we were a really culturally and
linguistically diverse group ofpeople, I lived in a community,
we connected on a lot ofcultural aspects, a lot of
community aspects and that sortof thing. And what's striking to
me about that time was despiteall of these wonderful
connections and the communitythat we have, that when it was
(07:04):
time for us to sort of get downto work, if you will, with our
curriculum, there seem to be anow I think I can name this this
sense of disappointment that mystudents have sort of maybe
entered this space as we wereworking. And there were days
when they would put forth quitea bit of effort to engage with
(07:25):
the text that we were reading.
And other days when they justwere not really feeling up to
working within the cannon. So itwas interesting to think about
the contrast, between the timewe were just engaged in
conversation talking about ourworlds and our interests, when I
would allow them to bring intheir music and talk about, you
(07:46):
know, the the lyrics that theywere composing and things like
that, that time of joy andcommunity and togetherness and
sort of what happened when webegan reading our Shakespeare
texts and things of that nature.
And back then at the time, Ithink like like most teachers, I
was trying to be responsive andtrying to engage my students in
(08:09):
terms of the activities that Ibrought in to support this, this
reading this curriculum. Butoverall, it fell far short of
what they needed from from me intheir language arts curriculum.
And so when I entered mydoctoral work, even at that
time, I think I, I didn't reallyget into studying issues of
(08:30):
literacy as practice and multiliteracies and things like that
I, I had a wonderful program.
And I learned a lot and I thinkI did some good work within my
in my dissertation continuing tolook at how language arts
teachers thought about thecurriculum, in you know, in
terms of being responsive totheir diverse learners, I but I
didn't really have the languagethat I now apply in my work
(08:51):
until I got to my first facultyposition where I started doing a
study with a colleague, where wewent into a reading teacher's
classroom, a high schoolclassroom and started working
with her as she sought to makeher reading curriculum more
responsive to her studentslives. And these were students
who had been labeled asstruggling readers. But in fact,
they were much like my studentsthat I had taught brilliant and
(09:13):
amazing but had not really beengiven curricular opportunities
to thrive. And so in workingwith both these colleagues, a
classroom teacher and mycolleague at the university, I
came to begin reading aboutnotions of literacy is practice
and multi literacies, and thatsort of thing. And with the
teacher enacting this pedagogyin order to support her students
(09:36):
reading practices andstrengthening their reading
identities, I came to reallyunderstand what it was that had
been really missing in my ownknowledge and understandings and
stances as a teacher. And sothat is really sort of a
defining moment for me. I thinkmy research program around youth
and literacy practices reallytook off from from that
(09:57):
experience and I have continuedfrom that time to really center
the lives of young people and inthe work that I do, and to
listen carefully to what they'resaying about who they are as
literate people out in theworld, and to think about what
what then that means for theliteracy curriculum that we
(10:18):
offer them in secondaryclassrooms. So, so I think
that's, that's really a keydefining moment. And then the
second one is also an, I think,an outgrowth of that study as
well. And that's the newer,although it's not so new
anymore. But the newer area ofmy work on transnational Youth.
During that time that I workedin that classroom, I came to
(10:39):
learn about the lives of anumber of students in that focal
classroom, who had a beak, thishappened in Texas, and they
fought the ones who did haveties to other nations, those
ties were to Mexico. And I wasreally interested in how they
talked about their literacypractices that spanned borders,
these national borders. At thetime, I didn't have the language
(11:00):
with transnationalism. But I wasvery interested in understanding
how the literacies sort ofshifted or had a particular
character, because they leadthese lives they and their
families, families led theselives across borders. And so in
writing, about one of the youngwomen who I now know, was a
transnational student, I sort ofwith the help of some really
(11:23):
knowledgeable and kind reviewersat one journal that I was trying
to publish in, sort of gotdirected to study the literature
on transnationalism. And it wasthis aha moment, oh, she's a
transnational young woman. Thisis what I'm sort of noticing
about her life and herliteracies. But then what struck
me as I continued to read inthat area, and begin to pub
(11:44):
publish in that area was not acomplete silence. But but almost
that, in the literature aroundblack transnational students, we
had a lot of literature andcontinue to have a lot of
literature about the experiencesof primarily Mexican American
border crossing youth, AsianAmerican transnational students
to a particular extent, but lessso on students who identify as
(12:06):
Black or, you know, from othercountries. And so because of my
own identity and background, assomeone who is from the
Caribbean, and with a familythat has led a transnational
life, for as long as I canremember, I began intentionally
looking to study the experiencesof Black youth with Caribbean
(12:27):
origins, who identify astransnational, who they may not
personally identify astransnational, but who, based in
the literature, I can sort ofthink about as transnational
young people. And I beganthinking about what what could
we add to the conversation? Howcan we open up a conversation?
What more could we learn andunderstand if we paid more
attention to that particulardemographic, and included them
(12:48):
in this conversation aroundtransnationalism. And it's
through that work at unite, Ibecame very familiar with the
work of Patriann Smith, her workon Black immigrant youth and
their, their literacies, totranslate literacies. And all of
the wonderful work that she doesin that in that geographical
space. And with that, that groupof people, young people, and
(13:11):
teachers and teacher educators.
And so that's been a wonderfulconnection, and I've just really
been enjoying doing work in thisarea over the last few years.
Lindsay Persohn (13:22):
Thank you so much for that not only
informative, I think, reallycompelling response to that
first question. And just forlisteners advantage, Patriann
Smith has a fairly recentepisode of classroom caffeine
that we can link to on your pageas well, Allison, but something
you said that I think reallystruck me as a critical part of
this conversation is, you talkedabout, of course, transnational
(13:44):
youth, and what literacy meansacross these borders and
boundaries. And as you weretalking about that, I was
thinking that our borders arelargely imagined, right? There's
no real line in the sandanywhere. And so for schools to
put up these kinds of borders orboundaries for kids, and you
know, what they do in onegeographical space isn't valued
(14:06):
in other geographical spaces.
There are so many, again,artificial lines, I think, that
are drawn there. That can bereally hard for teachers to
navigate, I would say, andcertainly very hard for students
to navigate. Why is one form ofliteracy valued in one space
while it isn't in another? Andso I'm hoping that will really
help us to unpack that and thinkabout some potential solutions
for classroom teachers inresponse to this next question.
(14:30):
So Allison, what do you wantlisteners to know about your
work?
Allison Skerrett (14:36):
I think one.
One way I would like people tounderstand my work is that it's
really centered on listening tothe voices of young people. And
I like to think that that is aconnection to my work as a
classroom teacher. And my workas a researcher and also my work
(14:57):
As a teacher, educator, someonethat prepares English teachers
to go out into into classrooms,I think that it's it's really
important. And I think lots ofus do this as as teachers to
think about who our studentsare, as we sort of imagine and
plan for our teaching andlearning with them. And I know
(15:20):
that it, it can feel sometimesthat we were handed a curriculum
that we sort of have toimplement and in some places in
cases that have to is prettyemphatic, it's pretty strong,
but I always remind my preservice teachers that there are
no no rules or laws againstgetting to know your students
(15:42):
and to creating a space wherethey can authentically share who
they are and, and what they dowith with literacy. And from
there, we can begin thinkingabout our our have tos and our
musts. And I think one of ourmusts is really disposition to
must, must give our students aplace where they can thrive an
(16:06):
opportunity to access thecurriculum and an opportunity to
access becoming strongerliterate people. And so I think
it takes years for for teachersto develop and finesse this,
this practice of understandinghow to make deep and authentic
connections between who theirstudents are and what they know
(16:27):
and what they can do. And whatthe literacy curriculum is
offering them in schools, and ittakes years to finesse, what are
have to curriculum that's handedto us what that looks like and,
and reimagining it in a way thatdoes make these connections. So
I do acknowledge that thelandscape is hard, and it and
(16:47):
depending on where you teach it,you know, can be more
challenging than in otherplaces. And I, I'm conscious of
the fact that when I taught inclassroom back in the 90s, we
were in a different landscapethan we are now. But when I work
with my pre service teachers andwithin service teachers, I find
that there are stillopportunities to just learn
(17:10):
about who our young people are.
And to think about how we canmake these connections, I'm
always reminded of thisbeautiful phrase that this
reading teacher offered to herstudents. So she she had had
this practice of beginning eachyear with her students, but she
taught half year courses. So weyou know, each semester, a
(17:32):
couple of semesters, by doingthis inquiry with students into
the illiterate lives, they hadopportunities to think about the
definition of literacy. And shebecause she was informed by
notions of literacy as practice,she was able to open up these
definitions that they wouldfirst offer literacy being, you
know, reading and writing tohelp them think about literacy
(17:53):
as meaning making practices andto help them identify the things
that they loved. And wereliteracy lived in them through a
variety of practices. And I talkabout her quite a bit and her
her work in my book, teachingtransnational youth. And she
would say to her students, youhave this line, all literacies
are connected, but we have toshow how they're connected. And
(18:16):
I take that phrase with mebecause I see her too for
herself. Because we would haveconversations about this after
most of her classes. You know,for her as a teacher, she felt
that it was her responsibilityto think about how are those
literacies connected, so shecould make these authentic
connections for her students.
And so if she needed to, shecould explain and advocate with
(18:37):
her colleagues oradministration, why she was
doing what she was doing in theclasses because these literacies
weren't connected. And I thinkthat's a big part of our work as
teachers in classrooms today tothink about how are these
literacies connected because itbecomes advocacy work, it
becomes intellectual work forourselves, right? And for the it
has a lot of implications forthe work that we're able to do
(18:59):
with students.
Lindsay Persohn (19:02):
I would totally agree with that. And it sounds
rather familiar. That'ssomething that I talk with my
pre service teachers about is,you know, being able to justify
what you're doing. Because ifpush comes to shove, there are
many times that I think havingsome sort of response to those
kinds of critical questions orat minimum, understanding what
you're doing so that you canformulate a response to any sort
(19:22):
of critical pushback that youmay get. I think that is very
important. But it also remindsme of just how much teachers
have to know in order to be ableto do that. And you mentioned
earlier this learning journeythat teachers are always on with
their students. And I couldn'tagree more I think that teachers
have got to see themselves aslearners, continuous learners,
(19:45):
lifelong learners, because thereis so much to learn and it does
change over time. As you alludedto, you know, teaching in the in
the 90s is different thanteaching pre pandemic is
different than than it is now.
So, it is an ever Shiftingfield. But that doesn't mean
that we give up everything weknow about good practice. But
certainly anchoring, what we doand what we know, with the young
(20:09):
people who are right in front ofus, I think is just it's so
critical. And it does reallysupport engagement with learning
for both students and forteachers. So this is just it's
such critical work to thinkabout how we learn from our
students, and then how we makethose connections when things
seem disconnected. Yes,absolutely. So Allison, what
(20:30):
else would you like listeners toknow about your work?
Allison Skerrett (20:34):
Well, I'll go back to what I started talking
about in terms of work thatreally listens to the voices of
young people. One definingfeature or characteristic of my
work is, is that there's there'svery little that I published
that doesn't have the voices ofyoung people all over it, I
(20:54):
think it's really important tocreate space for educators and
policymakers, reallystakeholders to hear the voices
of young people to hear theirstories to hear their
reflections on what schooling islike for them what they need,
from a literacy classroom, howthey're using literacy in their,
in their homes and in theircommunities. So I think we have
(21:17):
a lot to learn from youngpeople. And so I think one way
that I use my work as a vehicleI hope to create change is is by
centering the voices of theyoung people. And then from
there, I also think it's soimportant to think about that
classroom teacher, what doesthat what does that mean for for
(21:39):
them, depending on where theyare in their journey as a
teacher, where they may beteaching who they may be
teaching? So what are theimplications for practice,
similar populations, differentpopulations, similar spaces, or,
you know, or different spaces.
So that's, you know, that'sreally important, you know, to
me as well. So I, if I thinksort of about the work that I
(22:01):
do, and places that I sort ofcamped out along the way, in
terms of a research program,you'll see that in my early
years as a scholar, althougheverything is connected to the
language arts curriculum, you'llsee more of a focus on on
teachers on in service teachersin my early work. And that's
because I sort of entered theworld of of research thinking
(22:23):
very much about the place or theidentity that I had just sort of
left that of a high schoolEnglish teacher, who was really
grappling to make sense ofliteracy, curriculum literacy
policy, and what that meant forTeaching Diverse Learners. So
I've done quite a bit of workaround teachers, professional
(22:43):
learning, and communities ofpractice. And this is a thread
that I sort of bring into mywork now as well. When I think
about how do how do teacherslearn? And what do teachers?
What did teachers need? Whatkinds of environments do they
need in order to learn and tothrive as well? I think that
although you know, I've beentalking quite a bit about this,
(23:05):
this one teacher, you know, andI think back to her, she was
sort of a lone wolf out, youknow, out there in her school.
And she was aware of this, andshe intentionally she, she was a
sort of your typical languagearts teacher, but then because
she had been studying in agraduate program, and she really
wanted to work with young peopleat her school to bring to life,
(23:28):
some of the things she waslearning around literacy and
young people as agents ofliterate lives. And because
also, she was beginning to workin an increasingly scrutinized
space. And she knew that shewould not be able to do the kind
of teaching that she most wantedto do. She sort of opted to
(23:49):
become a reading teacher at atthat school. So while she was a
lone wolf, she, she knew she hadthe space and the freedom as
long as the test scores weredoing fine. No one would really
be concerned about exactly whatit was she was doing in there,
you know, and so maybe peoplethought she students were sort
(24:09):
of sitting in front of thatcomputer during that reading
program for those 50 minuteblocks, when in fact, that was
not what was going on in herclassroom at all. It was what I
described earlier, but not allEnglish teachers can escape to
those places. And I think youcan only be a lone wolf for so
long if you can't at all so soone connecting thread, you know,
(24:29):
in my early work and teachers,professional learning,
communities of practice is how Ithink now about the work of
teachers in terms of comingtogether to learn also, but also
thinking about teacherscommunities of practice. So I
I've done a fair amount of studyof English departments and how
teachers learn within languagearts departments and leadership
(24:50):
and language arts departments.
But now when I think about, youknow, those spaces, I think
about it more in terms of ourcurrent landscape and notions of
advocacy notions of spreadingthe kinds of practices that
I've, I've been describing. Sothat there, there's just a lot
of power, and there's sort ofmore people to speak back to
(25:12):
them that lone teacher in theirclassroom, then you know, when
it can be, I think easier to, tofeel fearful and feel frightened
and feel intimidated. And ifyou've got a department, a group
of colleagues working togetherin principled ways to share
practice, and so that's, Ithink, another dimension of of
my work that I would, I wouldlike teachers to, to be aware of
(25:36):
my colleagues, Petersmagorinsky. And I mentioned
Peter, earlier this afternoon,we have a new book that is
really about what's calledteaching literacy in troubled
times. But this is a recent bookin which we really take up
critical issues and criticaltopics that that teachers need
(25:56):
to be teaching about, within alandscape of great social
upheaval and politicalconstraints and threats in
public schools. So we reallytake on this landscape, that
it's a troubled time in oursociety, it's a troubled time in
education, but these troubledtimes really do sort of
underscore the need for acritical form of teaching. And
(26:19):
I'm really proud of that work.
Because for the book, wepartnered with literacy teachers
across different parts of thecountry. And we worked with them
in terms of developing somedifferent curriculum units, each
related to a critical sort ofcomponent of literacy. So for
example, there's a chapter onteaching racial literacy, and
(26:41):
with teachers sort of piloting,adapting this, you know, this
curriculum, these differentdesigns, unit designs before
their own classes, you know,they taught these units to their
students, their students producesome amazing work, the teachers
reflected on how things went andthe students reflected as well
in the work. And so you havethis book where you've got
(27:04):
teachers, voices, and they'retheir reflections on this work
that they did with theirstudents, you've got students
reflections on their learning interms of learning about racial
literacy and inquiring intotheir global communities and
things like that really powerfulstuff. So I'm really proud of
that, because it just it's ait's a way of showcasing the
practices of really courageousand really smart teachers who've
(27:28):
found a way to teach critically,within a really troubling
landscape. And because we're allstill very much living in this
landscape right now. I thinkit's a really a piece of
encouragement for teachers. Andit's, I think it's sort of
shines a light on sort of thepossibilities of teaching in
(27:49):
ways that our students need usto be teaching, despite all
that's going on around us.
Lindsay Persohn (27:56):
Yes, absolutely. Inspiration,
encouragement, you know, andperhaps even some practical
ideas as to how folks can getstarted on that. Or if they're
feeling stuck, or, orparticularly boxed in by their
environment, or the curriculum,it's handed to them really
important work to sort of breakus out out of that thinking to
(28:18):
break us out of someone else'smold, in order to best serve the
young people who are right infront of us. So that's great.
Thank you so much for that,Allison. And that actually
segues really beautifully intothis last question, given the
challenges of today'seducational climate, what
message do you want teachers tohear?
Allison Skerrett (28:35):
Yes, I think you're right. I probably have
been sort of addressing this,this question and what I, I was
just sort of, in my remarks afew moments ago, I think
continuing on that thread. Youknow, we've been talking about
working with pre serviceteachers, some of the
conversations I have with my preservice teachers have to do with
(28:56):
this idea that teaching hasalways been political work. It's
always been hard teachers havealways had to take a stand.
It's, it seems like thatdimension of teaching is has a
huge underscore, right, rightnow, but in fact, you know,
education has always beenpolitical. And so maybe it's
(29:19):
more so that for those of us whohave perhaps like to feel that
we were pretty neutral, or wecan be neutral or that we can go
about our our work, and not sortof get caught up in the fray
maybe for us now, we're feelinga little bit more uncomfortable,
because the scrutiny is thatmuch higher and particular
(29:42):
people have the language that wewe've been using for some time
now. And you probably probablywish they didn't know quite as
much as they do about the termsthat we use to guide our
thinking and our practice. And,you know, I'm very much thinking
of those of us in highereducation as well. It's it's an
interesting time because in thepast, those of us in higher ed
(30:03):
could have looked to ourcolleagues in the K 12 classroom
and say, can you believe whatthey're telling teachers they
can or cannot do. And now we'reright in there with with our
colleagues in K 12. We havedirect messages in many places,
telling teacher educators anduniversity professors what they
can and cannot teach. So it's atime of speaking to all of us,
(30:26):
it's a time of reckoning for allof us in terms of really sort of
accepting that our work is ispolitical. So I would go back
then to what I was sharing interms of how to teachers come
together to, to advocate for,you know, for their practices, I
think, in a lot of cases, thenarratives are being constructed
(30:48):
for us in terms of what we'reteaching and what what we're not
teaching the ideas we areforwarding to our students or
not. And I I wondering, this isa wondering aloud with all of
us, all of us and educators, nomatter the level that we teach,
I'm wondering, how are we comingtogether to construct
(31:09):
alternative narratives and moreauthentic narratives about the
work that we're doing? And howare we positioning ourselves to
get the message these messagesout into the political spaces
where they need to get out inorder to really fight for our
practices. And so I think it isa really important time because,
(31:31):
as I said, we're no longer thoseof us in higher ed, we're not
we're not excused, we're notsafe. We don't have the
privilege or the luxury of sortof, let me work alongside the
classroom teacher and thinkabout how I can support them. We
all share in this greatresponsibility to think about
how do we tell a a moreauthentic story of what we're
(31:56):
teaching and why it's importantto teach, what we're teaching?
And how do we rally support fromour communities, and families,
in order to ensure that ourstudents, all of our students
sort of get the kind of learningopportunities that they deserve.
So that's what I think, really,Lindsay about the moment we're
(32:18):
living in right now. And thework that we have to do, some of
us are feeling pretty proud andconfident in the curriculums
that we've developed and thelearning opportunities that
we've created for our students.
But now we're finding we need toprotect them, we need to fight
for them, we need to be worriedabout continuing to be able to
do what we need to do for theshift. For those of us who have
(32:39):
become very curriculum savvy andvery sophisticated in our
practices, we probably are notas sophisticated and experienced
in advocating for teaching inthe ways that we want to and
it's a set of skills andknowledge and dispositions that
we need to be building up atevery level of education. I
think, and I think this is thenew moment that that we're in
(33:00):
right now.
Lindsay Persohn (33:03):
I think you're I think you're so right in
several things. She said there,Allison, I think that this
really is a very importantpolitical moment. Yes, teaching
has always been political. But Ithink that between the pandemic
and so much of legislationthat's been introduced and
passed recently, teachers havereally been thrust into a
spotlight in already doing avery challenging job, a
(33:27):
wonderful, wonderful, butchallenging job. And something
else you said, really made methink about how did teachers
come together to advocate it ismy hope that a show like
classroom caffeine can giveteachers some tools and some
path forward to navigate theresources to know the people to
have those ideas sort of at theready, right, whenever they are
(33:48):
critically questioned? Orwhenever there's pushback,
because what I'm finding is thatI think so often in the
political realm, yes, folks haveadopted the language, but they
may not have the nuance ofunderstanding of what those
terms actually mean, right, orwhat is right. So I find that
often the terms that that wecome to understand on a very
(34:09):
deep level, end up just sort ofbeing copied and pasted into
these conversations, right andinto bills that are introduced.
And so you know, being prepared,having some sort of response or
the situatedness of those ideas,I think can be a great help in
that conversation. I don't knowthat it will fix anything so to
(34:29):
speak. But I think it'simportant that teachers feel
they have power in thesesituations. Yeah, it's it is it
is a very challenging time. Andcertainly teachers do have
opportunities to introducealternative narratives into
political spaces. And I hopethat's where we're headed. I
know it sometimes it all feelspretty overwhelming. When you
(34:52):
combine that with the day to dayof teaching. We'll keep on
keepin on, won't we?
Allison Skerrett (34:57):
We will. We will and you know We need to I
think, to keep our hope we needto keep our inspiration, we need
to find the educators that aredoing good work, we need to find
the allies that are fighting forthe work that we're doing as
well. So yes, it is, it is adifficult time. But I, I'm of
the School of being hopeful, andfinding the stories that will
(35:21):
energize and inspire withoutbeing pollyannish. Of course, if
we don't respond and respond ina very smart way, we could lose
some ground, at least for sometime. So I'm not romanticizing
the hope at the moment, but Ithink we can always choose to
adopt a posture of hope andpossibility. And so I hope, I
(35:41):
hope that's where we can sort ofcollectively stand right in this
Lindsay Persohn (35:46):
Absolutely. And I know for me, anytime I feel
moment.
like I might be losing a bit ofhope. I just go talk to a young
person, right. They are soinspirational, the way they
think about the world and theconnections they're already
making. So it's an opportunityfor us to put some of those
pieces together and to helpguide them forward in ways that
are positive and productive forthemselves and for for their
(36:08):
peers. So yes. So Allison, Ithank you so much for your time
today. Thank you for talkingwith me, and I thank you for
your contributions to the fieldof education.
Allison Skerrett (36:18):
Thank you so much, Lindsay. It was a
pleasure. I enjoyed theconversation, really had a
wonderful time, so thank you forhaving me.
Lindsay Persohn (36:25):
Thank you. Dr.
Allison Skerrett is known forher work in the areas of
secondary English and literacyeducation in urban contexts,
including among transnationalyouth. Professor Skerrett's
teaching and research focus onyoung people's literacy
practices, secondary Englisheducation and Transnationalism
toward educational justice fordiverse students. Her
(36:47):
publications appear in leadingeducational journals such as the
American Educational ResearchJournal and reading Research
Quarterly, Dr. Skerrett's book,teaching transnational youth
literacy and education in achanging world published by
teachers college press in 2015is the first to examine the
educational opportunities andchallenges arising from
(37:10):
increasing numbers of studentsliving and attending schools
across different countries. Hernew book teaching literacy in
troubled times identity inquiryand social action at the heart
of instruction, published byCorwin press in 2022, showcases
teachers and students engaged indeveloping critical literacies
and taking social action tocreate more just worlds. She is
(37:33):
currently an editor for theJournal of literacy research and
serves on other national andinternational journal editorial
review boards. Dr. Skerrett alsoserves on national and
international educationaladvisory boards including the US
National Assessment ofEducational Progress Reading
Panel, the research advisorycommittee of the Caribbean
(37:56):
Education Council, andScotland's International Council
of Education advisors, Dr.
Skerrett has received awards forher research and teaching
including the literacy researchAssociation's Early Career
Achievement Award, the Edward Bfry Book Award, and the
Elizabeth Chateau Massey Awardfor Excellence in teacher
(38:17):
education. Alison Skerrett isprofessor of Curriculum and
Instruction and director ofteacher education in the College
of Education at the Universityof Texas at Austin. For the good
of all students classroomcaffeine aims to energize
education research and practice.
If this show provides you withthings to think about, don't
(38:39):
keep it a secret. Subscribe,like and review this podcast
through your preferred podcastprovider. I also invite you to
connect with the show throughour website at WWW dot classroom
caffeine.com where you can learnmore about each guest. Find
transcripts for many episodes,explore episode topics using our
(39:01):
tagging feature, supportpodcast, research through our
survey, request an episode topicor a potential guest or share
your own questions that we mightrespond to through the show. We
would love to hear from you. Asalways, I raised my mug to you
teachers. Thanks for joining
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