Episode Transcript
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Lindsay Persohn (00:10):
Education
research has a problem.
The work of brilliantresearchers often doesn't reach
the practice of brilliantteachers.
Over the years, we've alsotalked about how the work of
brilliant teachers often doesnot inform the work of education
researchers.
In this special series ofClassroom Caffeine, in
collaboration with the Storiesto Live by Collective, we
(00:32):
highlight this group of K-12teachers from across the state
of Florida and former teachersnow in higher education who are
working together to sense- makeand take action.
We talk with educators andresearchers who are working
together to explore how literacyteaching can respond to the
climate crisis.
Since 2021, they have gatheredin person and online to write,
(00:55):
make art, share stories andreflect on how climate change is
shaping our classrooms andcommunities.
Supported by grants andpartnerships, they hold regular
workshops and virtual meetings,creating space for teachers to
learn from one another whilenavigating challenges like book
bans, censorship laws and therealities of living through
major hurricanes.
(01:15):
Through this work, the group isstudying how teachers use
stories, place-based activitiesand multimodal composing to
bring climate change intoEnglish language arts classrooms
.
Their collaborative researchasks, "how do teachers tell
stories about climate change,how do they navigate the
political, social andenvironmental pressures of their
schools?
" and how can they build newliteracies that prepare young
(01:38):
people for more just and livablefutures?
" In each episode of thisspecial series, we talk with a
collaborator in the Stories toLive by Collective about their
experiences, connections andlearning through this work
together.
Dr Alexandra Panos is anAssociate Professor of Literacy
Studies and Affiliate Faculty inMeasurement and Research at the
(01:59):
University of South Florida.
Alex is the PrincipalInvestigator in the Stories to
Live by Collective, leading andcoordinating the work of the
group by organizing meetings,obtaining funding and supporting
members of the collective inmany ways.
Alex grew up in St Louis,Missouri, and taught middle
(02:19):
school in Chicago before doingher PhD in rural Indiana.
Her parents and sisters movedto Florida 25 years ago, so it's
been a second home for quite awhile, although she only just
moved here in 2019.
It was her experience oflearning to be an engaged
Floridian socially, politicallyand environmentally that led her
(02:40):
to convene work related to theintersections of her passions:
literacy, teacher power andeducation for the climate crisis
.
She lives in St Petersburg withher partner, two rescue dogs
and Drusilla, the cat whodemanded to live with them in
the aftermath of HurricaneMilton.
So pour a cup of your favoritedrink and join me, your host,
(03:03):
Lindsay Persohn, for thisspecial series of Classroom
Caffeine (03:06):
Stories To Live By
that are sure to energize your
thinking and your teachingpractice.
Alex, thanks for joining me.
Welcome back to the show.
Alexandra Panos (03:19):
Always happy to
be here.
Talk to you.
Lindsay Persohn (03:22):
Thanks.
So this conversation isspecifically related to your
work with the Stories to Live byproject.
So, from your own experiences,would you share with us one or
two moments that inform yourthinking as it relates to
climate literacies and climateeducation?
Alexandra Panos (03:37):
Certainly.
So, I guess the first thingI'll say is that I've had the
opportunity to work on theintersection of literacy and
climate issues since about 2014.
When I began working on thiskind of work with my advisor,
and when I first started workingwith him on this, we were
thinking about climateliteracies as really about the
(03:59):
critical sort of readingpractices related to processing
and making sense of complex,often politicized information.
And, those kinds of readingpractices are really, really
(04:20):
important.
They are necessary for a civicsociety that's functional, for
shared understandings of whattruth means, for critically
examining information and thencoming to some conclusion about
what solutions look like in theface of something that's as
wicked of a problem as climatechange and that intersects with
(04:42):
so much of our lives and ourbodies and our social systems.
So, that was a big moment, wassort of thinking like, "wow,
reading and literacy practicesand teaching them and studying
them have to do with theenvironment and have to do with
(05:02):
the way that our experienceswith the world around us are
politicized, are part of ourcivic experiences and part of
our material experiences withthe world.
" and I think that's reallyimportant.
But, the second moment so Icarried that with me and I
continued to think about youknow, okay, so these are
critical literacies' practices.
We need to be critical and askcritical questions and be
(05:25):
reflexive about our own thinkingin order to incorporate
science-based understandings ofthe world around us and, you
know, sort of question ourbiases and all that kind of good
stuff that, like, criticalliteracy fosters or can foster,
and so I've taken that with me.
And then I came to Florida in2019 and began working with
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teachers here, and criticalliteracy remains an essential
thing, and you know, I continueto work with teachers in that
area related to climate issuesor anything you know, like,
those critical literacypractices are not unique to
climate change.
But when I got here, I thinkFlorida itself is just an
(06:10):
enveloping experience for thebody and senses, and I'm
speaking to you right now,Lindsay, in August, so it's very
, very hot and right.
So, I don't know.
I feel like living in Florida,we live through so much in our
environment and experience it somuch that way that it sort of
changed how I oriented to what Ithought literacy's
(06:30):
intersections with climate andenvironmental issues are, and so
now I think a lot more aboutthe socio-ecologies or the
social and ecological dimensionsof our lives and climate is a
huge part of that, but Irealized that here we can see
those social and ecologicaldimensions play out before us so
(06:52):
profoundly all the time,whether that's you watching
another hundred acres of land,beautiful central Florida land,
get raised for housingdevelopments, or you go to the
beach and your chest tightensbecause of red tide algal blooms
, or whether you have hunkereddown or are sitting in traffic
(07:15):
to evacuate a major hurricane,or one of many, many, many, many
other social, ecologicalexperiences, socioecological
experiences that we have.
I sort of started to recognizethat these are not discrete
literacies' practices that wehave to investigate.
They're part of what we need todo and certainly essential, but
(07:37):
our bodies and our socialexperiences moving through the
environment and thinking abouthow we're responsible to the
land and waters where we live,that there's a much greater
relationship and responsibilitythere than just a critical
reading practice is sort of, Ifeel, like the it's not a moment
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, it's more something thatFlorida has taught me, and being
around folks that have livedhere for a long time has taught
me that, and I guess the finalthing I'll say is that social
ecological is not just, you know, like me moving through the
world, it's also all the systemsthat create what me moving
through the world and theenvironment intersecting with
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our lives look like.
So that includes ourinfrastructure, our city
planning, our politics and theways that politics mediate
education and what we do in ourschools, and all of that
intersects with how we canprepare children for the world
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that they are inheriting.
So I think that, like those aretwo, they're not moments,
they're just like more of moremotivations or like our bigger
picture thinking.
But that has really crystallizedboth through like my
progression through these ideasand then to where I am today.
And it brings me to thisproject, I guess, because when I
(09:04):
wanted to start working withteachers, I realized that
teaching or working with themonly around discrete practices,
teaching practices or learningopportunities was not actually
enough, because I can teachteachers or we can do PD around
(09:24):
how do you teach criticalliteracies, practices around
climate change, or how do you doX, Y and Z.
But I think Florida has taughtme that being an educator in
relationship to climateliteracies and climate education
and our socioecological livesis a whole body experience and
(09:47):
it's about our whole mindset.
It's about our relationship towhere we live, to the future of
where we live, to the future ofall the beings that inhabit that
place, and about the rights ofchildren to feel that way too
and to understand that allencompassing thing.
Lindsay Persohn (10:06):
Alex, you
explain this so well and I think
that, you know, for me it alsohelps me to better understand
your work around what placed-based literacies really mean.
Right, because when you talkabout what it's like to live in
Florida, I think anyone who hasspent any time here, you kind of
have this visceral reaction,not just to the heat, but like
if you've ever walked on thebeach in red tide, you know what
(10:28):
that's like to have.
You know it takes your breathaway.
I know for me, as someone who'shad asthma my entire life, you
know I'm at the beach for abouttwo seconds when it's like that
and then I've got to go lest Isuffocate.
Like, you know, the poor marinelife that has to suffer through
that stuff.
But, that you know, integratedwith this idea of what it means
to live through the change ofour climate, you know, I think
(10:52):
there are times that when you'velived here a long time, just
like in any other experience,you almost become a little bit
numb to what that's like,because you know they use the
old metaphor of the frog slowlyboiling right.
You know our lives aroundhurricanes have changed over the
last several years.
I feel like I'm more prepared,so to speak, and I use, you know
(11:13):
, hurricane preparedness thanI've ever really thought I
needed to be, you know, growingup here and as a younger adult,
and so, yeah, the way that youdescribe this it reminds me that
, yes, in fact, living inFlorida is a very visceral kind
of experience between all ofthese things that we do kind of
on a day-to-day or maybe aseason-to-season sort of basis,
(11:35):
that we may not really thinkabout in that way, and then
thinking about what that meanswhen we hand this off to the
next generation.
It's just really, it's criticalwork.
And, I think your approach ofbringing teachers together to
embed this work in their ownexperiences, like you said, it's
not just you giving a workshopwhere you say, "here we can do
this and we can do this, butreally it's teachers identifying
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where they already are and whatquestions they have, and then
how do they integrate this workto support the children they
teach.
So, it's really cool to hearyou describe this because I
think it makes a whole lot ofsense.
Alexandra Panos (12:10):
Thank you.
Thank you and I guess, yeah, inthe same way that I'm saying
like, yeah, we can't just teachdiscrete practices, we can't
work discreetly with oneanother, and we can't work
discreetly with the world aroundus.
We might need to focus onparticular areas and particular
(12:30):
issues, but we need to be incommunity, and so I think that
that's a huge reason why theStories to Live by project looks
the way it does is to beconnected to one another, to
think together, and it's notjust Florida.
I will say, like I, when I goaround and I talk to other
teachers around the country andcolleagues around the world
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about this, one of the thingsthat I think resonates, even
when I'm speaking specificallyabout this very immersive, like
Florida specific issue, is thatthere are resonances, right?
So I was just in New Yorkrecently and shared some stories
about algal blooms here, andred tide is our most, I think,
(13:11):
profound one that we sort ofimmediately think of here, and
I'm in upstate New York and theywere like we have algal blooms
on our lakes and they'restarting to cover our entire
lakes because of the climatecrisis and you know, it's one of
those things.
It's such a differentenvironment.
I mean, it's cool and green andcrisp and you know, clear,
(13:31):
fresh water that doesn't havealligators in it, and yet we
share this like deep connection,and it's also because the folks
up there care so deeply aboutwhere they live and what it
feels like to live there, and soso, yeah, so I think Florida
opened to this for me, but Ifeel like anywhere to your point
about place-based sense-makingand storytelling and our
(13:52):
educational orientation tothings, anywhere can do that.
Any we are responsible toeverywhere and some places
really open that for us, thatunderstanding of the power of of
place.
Lindsay Persohn (14:05):
Well, I love
that you really highlight the
commonalities, even whenever wethink that we don't have much in
common with a particular place,like it immediately made me
think about the recent reportsof the subways flooding in New
York City due to heavy rains andyou know those sorts of things
that I guess, in some ways, youknow, you never really think
that that's going to be thereality, and here it's happened
(14:27):
several times and so, yeah itjust I don't think any of us are
really safe from what MotherNature is experiencing right now
, you know, at the hands ofhumans.
So, Alex, what else do you wantlisteners to know about your
work related to climateliteracies, specifically the
Stories to Live by project?
Alexandra Panos (14:48):
The Stories to
Live by project is really driven
for me, and what I hope peoplecan learn about it from this
podcast series and hopefullymore in the future, is driven by
this idea that we can't dothese things alone.
Individual actions arecertainly important, but we are
operating within very largesystems that perpetuate the
(15:10):
climate crisis very concretelyand perpetuate ways that we sort
of are forced into interactingwith our environments.
So we need to think together,and this includes the education
system.
Our education systems aredesigned to support all learners
(15:32):
to a certain extent, and eachteacher I know is very driven to
support every child in theirclassroom.
However, the sort of functionsof the education our testing
(15:54):
testing apparatus and ourscripted curriculum and the
politically mediatedenvironments that have been
created in recent years meansthat teachers have lost a lot of
control over the environment oftheir classroom.
And when I thought about, okay,I could teach teachers and I'm
saying that like I could come atthis as a project to teach
teachers how to teach aboutclimate I realized that that
(16:17):
just doesn't work and teachersneed to be motivated from their
own experiences and they knowtheir classroom environments and
they know their communities thebest.
So I wanted to make sure thatthis project was driven by what
teachers' knowledge brought tothe work and, ultimately, the
stories that their students haveto share about their lives and
(16:41):
the stories that they need toexplore so that they grow in
their abilities and capabilitiesand skills and understandings
the necessary stuff to tacklethe changing world.
So what ultimately I think thathas meant is supporting
teachers in nuanced and diverseways to think about their
(17:04):
socio-ecological realities andwho they are and who their
students are, in very diverseplaces across the whole state.
This project spans to do thatwork, so I think that's part of
it.
The other thing that I want toshare is that climate change,
like climate education, isofficially sanctioned in Florida
(17:27):
.
We've had references to climatechange removed from textbooks
by state law that went intoeffect last year on July 1st,
and we've further had a lot ofcensorship and restrictions
beyond that to just scrubclimate change and scrub other
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things, and we've created anenvironment where teachers are
very nervous and rightfully soabout what could happen to them
if they say or teach the wrongthing or if a parent gets upset
about bringing politicalinformation to the classroom,
which climate change is oftenpositioned as political, and
what I realized in working withteachers for a long time and
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thinking about this for a longtime is that we don't have to
and I'm not saying this to getaround state law.
I want to be really clear.
I'm not trying, and I havenever wanted to guide teachers
to get around any laws.
But when I think about what Isaid about the socioecological
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realities of living here, that'snot political, that's just true
, and any Floridian you talk toknows that, and we know that
here in our state we have deepbipartisan support for
protecting and caring for ourFlorida, the parks and the wild
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places and the animals and theecosystems that are special and
that matter to us here.
And so this shift that I've sortof done to thinking about the
stories of the children, thestories of the places and our
relationship to those reallynuanced situations that we live
through and what it means tolive through red tide and what
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it means to live throughhurricanes and what it means to
live through runoffs fromOkeechobee and heat domes in
Miami and all of those things,those aren't political and I've
never had a teacher that I workwith who engages with those
topics and finds them to beconcerning.
And so I think that the otherthing is is just creating space
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for teachers to talk through andthink about who and what
matters and how to work onstories with their students.
That's community-based work andso creating those communities,
for teachers to think about that, to think about the
all-encompassing experience ofclimate crisis, but not make it
the political theater that it isin other spaces, in their
(19:57):
schools, in their classrooms,because it doesn't have to be
and yeah, so I think that's theother big thing.
Lindsay Persohn (20:05):
And, it's not
helpful.
Alexandra Panos (20:08):
No!
Lindsay Persohn (20:09):
Right, whenever
it comes to political theatre,
it's just.
.
.
it's not helpful to anyone,least of all those who are
living through the realities ofwhat this means in their day to
day life.
Alexandra Panos (20:25):
Right.
Lindsay Persohn (20:26):
Yeah.
So, could you maybe give a fewexamples of what you all did
together in your time in yourtime in The Stories to Live By
project?
Alexandra Panos (20:27):
Sure! So I
guess to start with, we take a
view of literacy that's veryexpansive.
So we certainly think thatliteracy means reading and
writing and that there areimportant practices that we can
grow related to oursocioecological realities and
relationships, like how to writea story about where we live.
But we have a more expansiveperspective on what literacy
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means too.
So we try to think about likemoving through space, walking
with one another, walking on ourown, and documenting that work
as part of like really growingour socioecological
relationships.
We wrote a lot of postcards andyou know postcards in Florida
are a fun thing.
(21:09):
We have a long history ofpostcards and there's great
resources on the USF library webpage about like Florida
postcards.
But we thought about OK, solike what would it mean to send
a postcard from oursocioecological moment right now
?
What's a story that needs to betold and who do we need to tell
it to?
That's kind of political oradvocacy work in itself, like
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what is happening where you areand who needs to hear about it.
Is it your grandma?
Is it a politician?
Is it you know your past oryour future self?
Like who needs to hear a storyfrom you about where you are
right now.
We also worked with thewonderful folks at the
environmental news organizationthe Marjorie.
They have a series calledDispatches from a Sinking State
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where ordinary Floridians createpersonal essays, including
photos and narrative, about theplaces that matter to them and
that they care about across thestate.
There's beautiful pieces aboutgosh, Chassahowitzka.
You know the sugar cane fieldsoutside of Miami.
(22:19):
You know just wonderful pieceswhere Floridians are talking
about what's happening to themand why they care for where they
live, and so we've read thoseand talked about how personal
narratives can be something thatwe grow with our students, and
I know that teachers arethinking about that and we wrote
them ourselves.
We're presenting some of ourwork at an upcoming national
(22:40):
conference, the National Councilof Teachers of English, where
teachers are going to talk abouttheir place-based sensemaking,
their field notes that theywrite.
I mean there's so many ways toengage with this broad idea of
socioecological story, right,the stories we live by, the
stories we need to be living by,the stories to grow and live by
(23:02):
.
So we read poetry, there'scurriculum, there's children's
books.
I have long lists that I cancertainly share with you,
Lindsay, to put on the website,but ultimately, what I saw over
and over again is that teacherswere drawn to stories because of
the human connection, becauseof memory and sort of thinking
(23:25):
about memory, that they motivateus, they give people a sense of
agency we can share acrossdifference and divide.
You know, we can make thingsthat are really complicated
about the environment andclimate or just socioecological
realities more broadly simpler.
It like makes it about, youknow, things that are human or
(23:49):
like tangible rather thanoverwhelming, and all of that I
think really really helps us allto do that, do that work of
socioecological relationship.
Lindsay Persohn (24:02):
Well, the story
certainly help us process all
of these changes and thetensions around it, and you know
our personal feelings and, likeyou said, the political
pushback and the way that thosethings actualize in our lives.
Yeah, Well, you know how much Ilove story.
I've kind of built my lifearound stories exhibited by this
(24:23):
podcast but you know it is areally important way for us to
sense- make ourselves and thenalso, of course, share with the
wider world.
So I love this idea ofpostcards and thinking about not
just a place to place kind ofpostcard, but even a time to
time sort of postcard.
I think that's really.
(24:43):
It's really a cool way to getour creative side going while
we're thinking about how weenact real world change or
shifts in our thinking or, youknow, whatever it may be that
we're kind of up to in ourthinking about climate literacy.
Alexandra Panos (24:57):
Yeah, and I
guess I'll say that I have two
things that I want to add tothat.
One is that the model for thisproject was very much driven by
building communities so thatpeople can talk like a lot of
what we did was talk and sensemake together and then to doing
doing the relationships with oursocio-ecological lives in ways
(25:20):
that are that are emblematic ofthe values and beliefs that we
have about how to be responsibleto the world we live in.
And so I think that, like thatwork of like, I think so many of
us deeply care and deeply wantto contribute to a future planet
that can sustain life.
(25:41):
But it's really hard in theworld we live in it's really
hard, and it's really hard whensuddenly you apply that to being
a teacher.
Like there's so many ways thatlike we feel like we're not
living out who we know we are,and so to have people to think
with that on is really essential, and then to be able to
practice it on our own and thento take bits of that and to
(26:04):
learn how to integrate slowlyinto classroom spaces is really
essential.
And I think that that's the oneof the most important things
for me about this project is.
I think we're building wisdomtogether and building wisdom is
so important to socioecologicalwork.
There's, I mean, a long, longtradition of indigenous folks
(26:24):
and first nations peoples whohave wisdom about
socio-ecological relationshipsthat have been dismissed and
been violently stripped fromcommunity.
And all of this thinking that Ido is certainly built from
Indigenous peoples' sensemakingand we try to do a lot with that
(26:47):
in the work.
And I think that one big thingI've learned from my own reading
of Indigenous authors andworking with folks is that
stories build wisdom.
And, the teachers and I tryingto work to think about our
(27:11):
current realities with those whohave come before us and with
those who will come after us iswe're trying to build wisdom for
how to manage this right now aseducators.
What do we, what is buildingsocio-ecological relationships
look like?
What are the stories we need,how do we share those and who do
we need with us to do to dothat?
Lindsay Persohn (27:27):
It's really
beautiful to think of it in that
way, I think, because storiesdo help us to find ways to feel
a bit more human.
And I think, especially in theworld of teaching, as you
mentioned, that is highlyregulated and highly scripted
and often, you know, I think, aseducators, it can feel like a
space where you're not reallyfree to bring your whole self to
(27:51):
the equation.
And, so I think that youcreating this space where
teachers can come together toexplore those stories and, as
you said, to sort of leave thembehind also it's really
important stuff.
You know, stories are anage-old way of sense-making and
sharing ideas and wisdom, and soI love that you all are
contributing to that foundation,that foundational wisdom for
(28:14):
future generations as well.
Alexandra Panos (28:17):
Yeah, that's my
hope, and I think that we have
a lot of wisdom that we've builttogether related to managing
politically mediated teachingenvironments and to building
practices that are lovingtowards the earth and all that
inhabit it.
I think that that's the thingthat I've learned from the
teachers.
I've learned from theirliteracies' practices, things
(28:40):
about being loving andknowledgeable and having
relationships to place and thepast and the long histories of
this earth and Florida and eachspecific place where each of the
teachers lived, managing thoseresponsibilities and what that
means to have thoserelationships practicing really
like, lived in and embodied waysof being, you know, from
(29:03):
noticing to taking action to.
You know, working with childrenin the aftermath of hurricanes
and continually creating storiesabout that that can resonate
with people outside of Florida,with students, with parents,
with administrators, with theircolleagues, because that's
that's the work is.
My hope is that this can spreadand it doesn't have to be some
(29:27):
political show.
It's no, we need to do this andlet's do the work together.
Lindsay Persohn (29:34):
Yeah, no,
that's important to get to the
actual doing.
Well, on that note, you know Ialways like to end with this
question.
Given the challenges of today'seducational climate, what
message do you want otherteachers to hear?
Alexandra Panos (29:51):
That more is
possible with children in
classroom spaces when we're intune with the values and beliefs
that shape who we are in theworld, and tuning ourselves and
building our internal wisdomsrelated to our place in the
(30:14):
world is possible even inchallenging educational climates
.
(30:40):
Yeah, I think that that senseof community is critical and, as
you know, I've already spokenwith several teachers who've
been a part of this project andit's a big theme that they share
is just how important thiscommunity has been to them in
their own sense making andthey're thinking about you know
(31:01):
how they do the work ofday-to-day teaching while
keeping the planet in mind andwhile also meeting the needs of
the students who are in theirclassrooms right now, who are
facing these challenges andsupporting them to navigate.
You know, even we could say dealwith it, but I really think
it's just, it's about navigatingwhat it's like to live right
(31:22):
now.
And you know we are, we are inhurricane season at the moment.
So I think you know we're alljust kind of, you know you wait
and you wonder and you try toget the best information you can
, but you're helping kids tomake sense of that and what that
means in their lives, I think,is just it's, it's absolutely
critical.
So thank you for the work thatyou're doing.
Thanks, Lindsay
, and I'll just say, if any of
(31:44):
this, if this series thatClassroom Caffeine is putting
together on this projectresonates.
If something pops out and you,and you say, "That' me, that's
what I'm thinking about, or I'vebeen struggling with this, or I
want to do X, y and Z withthese folks," please, please,
reach out to me and I would loveto talk to you.
(32:06):
So that's.
The other thing is that, like aconcrete thing, is that you are
not alone.
If any of this resonates, ifyou're listening to the series
and thinking to yourself, theseare the teachers that I want to
be talking to right now.
Please let us know.
Lindsay Persohn (32:20):
Great.
I appreciate that invitationand certainly we'll share your
resource links on your page.
So thanks so much, Alex.
(32:46):
By centering teacher'sexperiences and creativity, The
Stories To Live By Collectivereimagines literacy education as
a powerful way to engage withthe climate crisis.
Together, members of thiscollective are showing how
stories and teaching practicesrooted in place can help
communities respond to climatechange, while nurturing hope,
justice and resilience forfuture generations.
If you have an interest injoining this group, please reach
out to Dr.
Alexandra Panos, AssociateProfessor of Literacy Studies at
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the University of South Florida, at ampanos@ usfedu.
That's a-m-p-a-n-o-s at usfedu.