September 11, 2025 • 46 mins
#EP306
Texas has quietly become America's renewable energy powerhouse, with solar and wind now generating over 70 gigawatts of capacity. Raina Hornaday, founder and CEO of Caprock Renewables, reveals how this transformation happened and why rural communities are driving the next wave of clean energy growth.
In this episode of the Clean Power Hour, we explore the explosive growth of Texas renewables, where solar and wind now exceed 70 gigawatts of capacity. Raina takes us through her family's history with the first utility-scale wind project in New Mexico and reveals how Texas has become America's renewable energy powerhouse.
Key topics covered include
- The fascinating ERCOT dashboard showing real-time energy generation
- The Texas Renewable Energy Industries Alliance (TREIA) is celebrating its 40th anniversary
- The emerging agrivoltaics revolution that is helping farmers add revenue streams while maintaining agricultural productivity.
- The recent legislative battles, where over 100 renewable advocates testified against anti-renewable bills
- The growing role of battery storage in grid stability
- How oil and gas companies are increasingly turning to renewables for their operations.
Raina also discusses her work with American Farmland Trust on educating farmers about agrivoltaics, the importance of responsible development in rural communities, and why microgrids are becoming essential for energy independence.
Whether you're interested in renewable energy development, agricultural innovation, or Texas energy policy, this episode offers valuable insights from someone who's been at the forefront of the industry for over a decade.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (00:00):
Talked about the ERCOT dashboards
(00:01):
really great, and it's just veryyou can get a little energy
education just browsing throughthere, they do a great job. But
I think my reaction to it'sdifferent than most people,
because when I looked at thattoday, the first thing I thought
about was 100 of us testifyingat the Capitol during the
(00:22):
legislative session to fightanti renewable bills. That's why
we had to do that, because solarand wind are a real player.
intro (00:35):
Are you speeding the energy transition here at the
Clean Power Hour, our host TimMontague, bring you the best in
solar, batteries and cleantechnologies every week. Want to
go deeper into decarbonization.
We do too. We're here to helpyou understand and command the
commercial, residential andutility, solar, wind and storage
industries. So let's get to ittogether. We can speed the
(00:56):
energy transition
Tim Montague (01:01):
today on the Clean Power Hour the Texas renewables
market. My guest is RainaHornaday. She has an incredible
origin story. She is the founderand CEO of Caprock renewables.
She's been involved in wind, insolar, in microgrids. She's on
the board of soul smart. She hasher fingers in so many things. I
(01:22):
wish I could talk to you allday, Raina, but welcome to the
Raina Tillman Hornaday (01:24):
show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's my pleasure.
Tim Montague (01:28):
It is truly an honor. And before we go any
further, please tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself and how you gotinterested in renewables.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (01:40):
Sure happy to be here. You've said.
My name is Raina Hornaday. I amcurrently in Austin, Texas. I've
been a Texan now for 25 years,but I'm from eastern New Mexico.
My family home set it out therein 1906 and when you grow up in
the country and you farm andranch and you're part of that
(02:02):
community and environmentconservation and Water and
Electric conservation, and howto work with renewable energy
resources, just for everydaylife, is really just part of who
we are and what we do. And so itjust was very natural. We had
(02:23):
solar wells, and we use solar,of course, all the time for
growing crops and all thenatural things. Windmills were a
big part of our life for water,and could not survive without
wind and windmills, and evenbefore, there are transmission
lines out there, every kind ofhomestead had a wind charger for
(02:45):
electricity. So it was a verynatural fit for me to continue
and get more involved inrenewables throughout my career,
and it's just been such, such agreat career path for me, and I
see it benefiting landowners andcommunities, and it's just been
very rewarding to see it grow somuch in my lifetime.
Tim Montague (03:08):
So paint us a picture the cap rock ranch in
southeastern New Mexico. What?
What is the what? What all goeson there? And tell us a little
bit about your family's historyin the wind industry.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (03:23):
Okay, so my dad's family had homesteaded
on the High Plains. It's kind ofthe Northern plateau, the llano,
Estacado, and kind of the middleof the state, but very flat. You
can see 365, all the way.
There's nothing seeing you,impairing your vision all the
way around, which is a unique, Ithink, to how a lot of people
(03:46):
grow up. So sunrises, sunsets,super clear storms. You know,
you can observe a storm all day.
But my my father's family weredry land farmers, and so my dad
was a dry land farmer, but hewas also involved in the eastern
plains Council of Governments.
He was an executive directorthere for 30 years. And so he, I
(04:08):
mean, it is very windy. The windresource on our property, and in
that part of the country is someof the best in the country,
which you don't reallyappreciate when you're day to
day farming and working withcattle, because it's often a,
you know, you can't hear and youcan't hear a rattlesnake, if
(04:28):
it's, you know, if you'reopening a gate and there's
rattlesnake there, I mean, thewind is is a huge issue. You
have to park your truck acertain way. You can only open
so many doors at a time, so wejust work with the wind. But
like I said, before, we have tohave it. If the wind doesn't
blow for a couple of days in arow, and it's we're in a
(04:49):
drought, we'll have to haulwater for the cows. So we,
really, we, you know, are veryaware of the wind. And how much
it blows and if it doesn't blow.
So it's just like I said, it'sfunny to be so so connected with
it. So my dad, as part of hiswork with the eastern plains
(05:13):
Council of Governments, put up asmall MET tower on our farm
overlooking the cap rock looksdown onto our ranch, which is a
cow calf operation, and so thatthat MET tower gathered data for
a couple years, and I ran acrossone of the chips the other day,
(05:36):
and so I he was able to retainthat data. And when projects are
built around met data, that'show they're financed. And so I
took that data to renewableenergy roundup event in
Fredericksburg, put on by theTexas Renewable Energy
(05:58):
Industries Alliance, which I wason the board of and supported
for years and years, and I'mstill working with the found the
historical foundation that hasall that information of all the
work they did. So I went to thatevent and interviewed a couple
developers for wind, and thatwas how the cap rock wind
(06:19):
project ended up being, becomingin existence as a development,
and then it was constructed, andI told you earlier, but It's
recently been repowered the 80megawatt, 80 megawatts, and the
80 wind turbines were actuallytaken down and decommissioned,
and they weren't repoweredbecause they weren't the type of
(06:41):
wind turbines that really couldbe repowered.
Tim Montague (06:43):
So they they developed, they ended up
developing a 80 megawatt windfarm on the property, right? Or
8480 megawatts, yeah, okay, andthis was back in the early 2000s
right? Yes.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (06:56):
It was the first utility scale wind
project in in New Mexico, andleeward, leeward owns it now,
and they, they utilize that 80megawatt interconnect and put up
80 megawatts of bigger turbines.
So it's it now, it's to to thewest of our property. So you,
you can't, I mean, it very muchchanged our landscape at the
(07:17):
ranch, because we could see all80 turbines from from the ranch
and now, I mean, they're fartherdown the cap rock so. But, you
know, the rural communitiesappreciate developments like
this because they come with, youknow, benefits for the
communities?
Tim Montague (07:34):
Oh, for sure. So, yeah. I mean, I think sometimes
we forget that renewables arepart of the landscape. You know,
with with wind turbines usedprimarily for pumping water, but
then also for powering off gridoperations, right with
electricity dating way, wayback. And of course, there's a
(07:59):
modern era in wind forelectricity generation, which is
what we're talking about herewith your with your ranch. And
now we've reached a point wherethese projects are reaching 20
years in, you know, of life, andthey need to be repowered. And
so towers are coming down, andyou're getting new technology,
and away you go. So well, let'sget we have a lot of ground to
(08:23):
cover, so we we have to move on.
Unfortunately, I'd love to justgeek out on wind in Southeast
New Mexico, but you have yourfingers in so many things and
and you know what? One of thethings we're going to show our
listener today, if you'rewatching on video, is the ERCOT
dashboard. And you know, Texasis a fascinating market because
it is the nexus of fossiltechnology, gas, oil, but also
(08:48):
renewables, right? It's a major,major wind market, and now a
major solar market. Over 10gigawatts of solar was installed
in 2024 in Texas, right? That'syears worth, many years worth,
sometimes a decade's worth ofsolar for most American markets.
Texas has more solar going intoit now on an annual basis than
(09:14):
California, which was the bigdog before, and and, yes, there
are headwinds from the federallevel against wind and solar,
but guess what? There's stillgoing to be a lot of wind and
solar development, and that'sjust because it's cost
effective, right?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (09:35):
The momentum is so, so strong.
There's just not no way to stopit at this point,
Tim Montague (09:40):
exactly, there is no stopping wind, solar and
batteries. But let's talk aboutthe Texas Renewable Energy
Industries Association, Tria,which joined with clean TX in
2020, as I understand it. So nowit's goes by the Montague clean
TX. But for for those of us whodon't work in Texas directly,
(10:04):
this landscape is is littleunderstood. So tell us about
Tria and why you're so committedto that organization.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (10:12):
Well, like I said, that's that their
event that they put on, therenewable energy Roundup, was
kind of like an outdoor eventwith rainwater catchment folks
and all kinds of different itwas kind of like a Earth Day
event. And so that's how I wasable to meet the people I needed
to in the industry to get myproject going. And then I joined
(10:37):
the board in 2014 worked withleaders in around I was on
thought leadership, so puttogether a lot of thought
leadership things around ourconferences, which I want to
talk a little bit more about.
But webinars. We have luncheonsfor legislative policy topics.
And when Tria was established in1985 it was really to garner and
(11:02):
get renewables going at alegislative level, and we had
Mike Osborne and Russell Smithand a group of entrepreneurial
folks that went to DC andinserted themselves in the
conversation and got some thingsacross the finish line, and were
able to really help back when,you know, back in the 70s when
(11:24):
the PUC was established and theregulatory policies Act was
written. And so that thathistory is so fascinating. But
as the industry did grow, andthose folks were very, very
involved in the first solarprojects and the first wind
projects, and getting those overthe line at the legislative
(11:44):
level and for educationalreasons, supporting the
education around it. They thethe wind and solar industries
kind of started their ownlobbying efforts. So we stepped
away from any lobbying, and wejust became a convener. So we
still have lots of events. Wehave chapters now in Dallas and
(12:06):
Houston that have their ownleadership, and it's just been
wonderful to to watch it grow,and watch how many connections
and kind of successfulcollaborations have happened
through the the partnershipsthat that clean text has with
the industry and with otherorganizations. If, when, when
(12:28):
conferences come to Texas, wewill host a welcome reception,
Welcome to Texas reception. Andthose have been really
successful. And then we have ourown conference, which was called
Texas renewables. And holla whenshe was holla blues, which is
former CEO of electric powerengineers. She's now still very
(12:52):
active, but doing creativethings. She was big part of the
Crez citing, and she was thepresident of Tria for for some
time, and she renamed theconference grid next, because
once the renewables were reallygoing, you know how to, how to
incorporate those into amodernized grid, was really what
(13:12):
we wanted to focus on with ourconferences. So grid Next, we
have one in Dallas and one inAustin this year, and they're
very, very technicalconferences. And so we just have
such a awesome group that workwith the industry from all
across the the renewables andoil and gas. So that collision
(13:33):
has happened, we go to nape. Idon't know if you know nape, but
it's a big oil and gasconference in Houston, I think
one of the biggest. And we have,we have a renewable section
there now, which is just reallyunbelievable. So watching
renewables grow up, and we havea lot of oil and gas overlap,
(13:56):
lots of people getting intorenewables from oil and gas, and
lots of oil and gas groups thatneed renewables to support their
their consumption.
Tim Montague (14:09):
A fun fact I learned speaking to you in the
pre interview was that T bonePickens, who's really famous,
quote, unquote, in the windindustry, never actually
developed wind projects. How isthat possible that somebody can
get away with that? I'm just,I'm kind of almost,
Raina Tillman Hornaday (14:28):
he did develop, I think he did develop
a couple renewable projects, bigones, and, you know, purchase
the land, and he maybe, I thinkhe had had some studies funded.
But what he just didn't, theydidn't get built, I see, yeah,
but, but Texas Monthly pickedhim up. And obviously he's a
(14:49):
very charismatic, big, bigenergy guy. So I think he just
get, got a lot of fanfare aroundthose, those developments. But
that. They didn't get end upgetting built, yeah.
Tim Montague (15:03):
So you got into solar in about 2015 as I
understand, is that right? Yes.
And so you've been in in solarfor a decade. Paint us a
picture, you know, as Imentioned there's, you know, 10
plus gigawatts of solar cominginto Texas, but that's mostly
(15:25):
utility scale solar. What'sgoing on with distributed
generation? And you commentedthat, you know, oil and gas also
needs renewables. I'm curiouswhat comes to mind for you about
that, sure?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (15:43):
Well, the oil and gas sector, they
they use a lot of power for whatthey do, and their projects are
kind of fast, and they havereally well funded developments
most of the time. So if theywant, if they need power, they
get power. So there, there's alot of kind of smaller
transmission lines that arebuilt in West Texas, I think, to
(16:05):
to get power to the next wellthat's that's being built out
for for oil and gas. But there'sgenerally a lack of of enough
power in West Texas because itis so remote. We have a couple
customers that are at the end ofco op lines, and they'll lose
(16:25):
power just because the oil andgas load is so high on at
different times. So folks likethat really, if there's a
solution for them, if there's amicrogrid solution, or if
there's a solar solution orstorage, they want that
investment for the peace of mindthat their power is not going to
be, you know, they're not goingto have any, any lack of of
(16:49):
power anytime for a weatherevent or or load from other
places. So when, when it cameout that our load growth was
going to be so so high for thefirst time in 50 years. Really,
lot of people have had a lot ofconcern about, hey, I was
(17:10):
already intermittent at sometimes because of my location or
because of weather. So I thinkpeople are really looking at how
they can be more energyindependent themselves with
their operations, especially oiland gas, or farming and and
ranching and in ruralcommunities. And then the AI, of
course, is, is the the nextlevel of of load that is, mean,
(17:36):
AI, data centers. Yeah, the datacenters. You know, there's a new
one announced every day, justhere in Texas, and I know
they're, they're already inother places, but it's
interesting because theannouncements always include
renewables as part of thesolution. And I really think
water is going to be a big partof of the the issues and
(18:00):
planning. I just, I wish we hada little bit more planning time
around these centers, because Ithink we're really going to need
to plan it from a gridperspective. But just that much
load our grids just aged. Weneed to modernize the grid.
Tim Montague (18:15):
So true, it's, it's kind of ironic, right?
Because these these gridoperators are regulated
monopolies for the most part,whether they're public power or
private power. And you know,they have a responsibility to
society to deliver, you know,99.999% uptime, and they do
(18:40):
generally do a pretty good jobof that, with some notable
exceptions now, like Storm Yuri,which was a major black eye,
but, but they're not keeping upwith the times, and that
structure allows them to reallyresist change in some ways that
are, I think, quite negative asas we energy professionals
(19:02):
recognize that the grid is notkeeping up, things have changed.
There is this thing calledsolar, wind and batteries, and
it's actually really good forthe grid operators. You can
build it in a timely manner. Youcan build it cheaply and get it
on the grid, which is a hugething now, right? Because we
have this load growth. Youmentioned AI data centers.
(19:23):
There's a massive project inWest Texas. I read about that
Crusoe is developing. It's agigawatt plus scale. It involves
solar batteries and natural gasgenerators. And there's, there's
a reason why these developersare using solar, wind and
batteries. It's all about money.
Money drives everything, really,in the real world, in the built
(19:47):
environment. And I you know manyof us in renewables also care
about decarbonizing the economyand creating a healthier, safer
future. For humanity, and that'sa wonderful mission, and I'm
fully on board with thatmission, but it is money that
makes the world go round. So tothat effect, I guess Reina, you
(20:10):
know, when it comes to DG, andyou, you know, you are involved
in some agrivoltaics projects,which I just love, because it's
good for farmers. It's good forsolar developers. It gives rural
communities an additional sourceof revenue. But how did you get
(20:31):
interested in agrivoltaics andand what's going on there in
Texas and New Mexico?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (20:41):
Well, it's just kind of goes back to
my, you know, family farming andranching. But I got my master's
from Texas Tech in energy in2022 and I did my thesis on
agrivoltaics. And at that time,I mean, it was all about how you
pronounce it. And now I feellike I know it's just kind of my
(21:03):
algorithm, but I feel like it'sso incredibly popular now and
all over. So I love that it'sbeen great to watch it grow and
be defined. And working withAmerican Farmland Trust on
educating farmers andagrivoltaics, which I really,
really like. But when I got intoutility scale solar development,
(21:28):
you just the scale of theliterally utility scale, just
the how many acres that we'recovering with glass is
incredible for these big 100 andmy last project was 300
megawatts. So it's, you know,it's a substantial piece of
property, and to take thatcompletely out of Ag, isn't
(21:52):
always a great idea. And Ishared with you before, but one
of the consequences of these bigprojects that nobody really was
prepared for was just the amountof the cost associated with
dealing with the weeds orwhatever was growing underneath
the panel. So I feel like theindustry's really done a great
(22:13):
job at learning quickly fromthat and doing, you know,
implementing sheep under panels,solar sheep, which I love, and
then now pollinators. What whatnaturally? What natural grasses?
What's what grows? What's bestfor the soil, what stabilizes
(22:33):
the soil best? So that researchis ongoing, and we work with
University of Texas in the RioGrande Valley with we're doing
10 project we're installing 10agrivoltague projects for them,
and they're small, they're notlarge, but the data from those
projects will help financebigger installations for for
(22:55):
agrivoltague projects, that'sactually farming and growing
crops under panels, which is alittle different than the solar
sheep as agrivoltagues, butthey're, you know, it's
happening in Texas and hat. Wejust have so much land here. I
mean, it's happened, you know,it's taken place in Europe and
(23:16):
New England, because the landconstraints are so, so much more
there so much more of avariable. But here we have so
much land, and so I think to theextent we can really incorporate
soil scientists and what is bestfor the community, the
environment, the landowners, therural the rural folks, is going
(23:42):
to really help these projects toto be better in wherever they
are as as the developments goforward. So I'm really
optimistic about aboutagrivoltagues for the world.
Tim Montague (23:56):
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call 855584, 855-584-7168, tofind out more, I'm fresh off the
heels of year three of the solarfarm Summit, which is a
dedicated agrivoltaicsconference in Chicago, and one
of the emerging phenomena at theconference this year was. Was
cattle voltaics. So grazingcattle on solar farms, it's
(25:03):
becoming a thing. There's somenice trial projects, and the
technology is really there. Ihad an interview with solar
geek, which is an Israelitracker company which really has
this dialed in. But, you know,the thing that I mean, there are
many angles to agrivoltague thatI love, but the one that I love
(25:27):
the most is that this is acarrot for rural communities
that, in many places, arepushing back against wind and
solar development for a varietyof reasons, some of them well
informed. Some of them not sowell informed. The well informed
pushback is a phenomenon thatresults when there's a
(25:49):
concentration of development ina certain jurisdiction. And you
can imagine this is a nuancethat I think a lot of people
don't recognize. Infrastructureis not spread evenly across the
landscape, right? The powerlines, the substations, the
trends, the the tnd, thetransmission and distribution
(26:12):
lines run in specificjurisdictions and in specific
areas and and the development ofsolar and wind occurs closer to
that infrastructure. And so youcan get these clusters. And
sometimes that can seem like abarrage to local rural
communities, and then they go,hey guys, okay, we're done. And
(26:35):
then there are nefariouscampaigns to miseducate people
about the negatives. But youknow, when you really get under
the covers of rural wind andsolar, it's really good for the
local economy. And agrivoltaics,as I started to say, is a carrot
for these communities where youcan say, Look, you don't have to
(26:58):
stop grazing or raising crops onthe land. It's a both and, and
now you can have an additionalsource of income, whether that's
a lease payment or electricityfor your farm operation. It's a
both and, right? I'm just doinga story in PB magazine on
vertical racking by facialvertical racking. It's, it's an
(27:22):
awesome innovation that ishardly, uh, established here in
the US, but certainly a thing inEurope.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (27:30):
I think we're gonna see a lot of that in
the agrivoltague space, is kindof these almost greenhouse type
structures that that become kindof more open air. So I think
we're going to see that, and weneed it. Energy security and
food security are hand in hand,so I agree. You know, there is a
(27:52):
there has been quite a bit ofpushback in Texas and around the
country for utility scaleprojects. And like you said,
it's a carrot, but it's also asolution, and that's where
education comes in, too andresponsible development. So
we're losing and that's why Ilike working with, you know, The
Nature Conservancy of AmericanFarmland Trust, because they
(28:14):
really can, can help witheducating and doing analysis of
how much farmland were we using?
Were we losing anyway? A lot. Wewere already losing farmland for
all these different reasons.
Urban sprawl being the big dog,right? Well, and generational,
uh, family farming just, youknow, isn't, isn't sustainable.
(28:39):
Um, I'm not doing it, and it'sjust it's hard to do. So that's
some. We have some real greatsuccess stories here in Texas of
solar projects that are doingagrivoltaics, and their kids are
in college, and their kids aredoing the solar sheep thing, and
so they know about energy, andin all the different possible
(29:00):
career paths associated withfarming and energy farming. So I
love that. I think we'll see itmore. But I always come from the
opposite viewpoint, which is Ideveloped tons of wind in the
panhandle, and every singlelandowner that we worked with
(29:21):
was just so appreciative,because farmers and ranchers
need every single source ofincome that they can get an
added value, because weexperience extreme droughts, and
that's going to continue andpotentially get worse with with
Climate change. So So I alwaysworked with these ultra
(29:43):
appreciative landowners,because, hey, you want to, you
want to pay me for the wind?
That's amazing. And wind isdifferent. Of course, you can
farm around it and and rancharound it, which is great. But
then also, you know, the schoolgym. Um, got, you know, there's
a new school, complete facilityfrom from the tax benefits of
(30:05):
it, and so it's so neat in ruralareas like that. And then when
you come into different parts ofTexas, it's just, it's every
different areas very unique, andwe just need to be responsible
and have have development thatthat is responsible and make
sense, and really put more timeand effort into the pre
(30:28):
development work for the land,to see what grows best and what
works best and and let'smaximize. Let's make it not dual
use. But you know, let's dopollinators around the edges.
And again, that's farmers andranchers are that's what they
know how to do. They know whatgrows. They know how it grows.
They know when it grows. So wehave to have them more involved
(30:50):
in development and on theirproperty. So I think the
opportunities are great there.
And we need the food. We needmore. We need to grow more food
than we than we do.
Tim Montague (31:02):
So, yeah, what I love is this food, energy, water
nexus of agrivoltagues, alsowhich Helga birnath at at Sun is
is fond of promoting it's wateris super precious and rare in
some parts of the country, likethe southwest, right? If you go
(31:25):
to West Texas, it's super arid,and so you have to be very
careful with your waterresources. Same with Southeast
New Mexico. As I said to you inthe pre interview, I grew up in
Albuquerque, but I reallyhaven't considered moving back
to New Mexico because I'mconcerned about the future of
water in the state of NewMexico. It's, it's kind of
(31:47):
scary, but, but anyway, here I
Raina Tillman Hornaday (31:49):
am. For me, that's one of the main
benefits, side benefits ofagrivoltaics Is it really does
help prevent evaporation, asmuch evaporation, and when you
get to cattle voltaics and andagrivoltaics, it's the shade. I
mean, the extreme. Yeah, you canharvest the resource of the sun,
but the animals really needshade, and this is a great
(32:13):
solution for that. So I love tosee, you know, I looked at the
lasso project, the large animalsolar. It was a grant that was
out there, and so worked on acouple of different potential
projects for that grant. Andit's, it's stalled out now, but
I think we're going to see itand it makes sense. And then,
and then the the windagrovoltaic solution, the the
(32:38):
wind solution, that's kind of,you know, where you can have
cattle and horses around panels.
You could do that with solar,which would really solve a lot
of problems, including energycost.
Tim Montague (32:50):
Yes, and that is another irony of the State of
the State is the the obbb, thebig, beautiful bill is causing
drastic inflation in energyprices at a time when there's
rapid growth in grid demand,right from Ai, from
(33:12):
electrification oftransportation. And, you know, I
saw an estimate from envers thatonly 30% of solar projects might
survive the cliff that the OB BBis going to cause, starting in
2028 it's kind of happy days.
There's going to be a boom.
We're going to go to maybe 60gigawatts in 2026 of solar in
(33:36):
the US. And then if thing, ifsomething, you know, if there's
not a stepping back from theobbb, there is going to be a
cliff, so, but let's talk aboutTria. There's a 40th anniversary
coming up for the TexasRenewable Energy Industries
Alliance, and which is now it'ssafe to say it is just clean
(34:01):
techs, right?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (34:03):
Yeah, and what happened with with Tria
and all the kind of artifactsfrom all the hard work that Tria
did, and it did pass on intoclean techs, but they created
the Texas Historical renewableFoundation, and so they're
(34:23):
digitizing all the originalnewsletters and all the
conferences and all thespeeches. So we're going to
really highlight that goingforward during this event and
and we're going to have, we'regoing to do some fundraising
stuff for for that organization.
And, like I said, the storiesare just so rich, and history so
(34:44):
so interesting, and people Ijust, I don't know that, that
most people are aware of it. Sohoping to bring a lot of
awareness to to, you know, thefoundation that was set that
we're building renewable. Onnow.
Tim Montague (35:01):
So that event, 40th anniversary luncheon is
September 23 2025 at the centralAustin library in Austin, Texas.
So check that out, and it's justclean text. Dot O, R, G, so
yeah, please check that out.
Clean text.org, and that'samazing that there is a 40th
(35:22):
anniversary of this organizationhappening.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (35:28):
Who knew? Yeah, and Austin energies
are one of our, our partners inthat, and they're celebrating
the 20th anniversary of theirsolar program. And Austin Energy
has been great with helping, youknow, buy renewables. They
bought power from one of thefirst wind projects in West
Texas, and so they'll be there.
And, you know, we work with alot of we work with CPS, and a
(35:51):
lot of the different utilitiesand providers around the state.
Work with ERCOT on educationaround renewables, so it's
really great.
Tim Montague (36:04):
Speaking of ERCOT, I'm going to put the ERCOT
dashboard on screen, which I didnot know existed, but this is a
lovely dashboard of real timeenergy generation by source and
a monthly capacity. Look back,and I'm just going to read out
for our audio listeners what'sgoing on here. I'm going to, I'm
(36:26):
going to read the monthlycapacity figure. So it just
goes, not in order of size, butit's just ordered, okay, solar,
31.9 gigawatts. Wind, 39.9gigawatts. Hydro, 573 megawatts
storage, 13.9 gigawatts. Other152 megawatts natural gas. This
(36:52):
is the big dog, 66.2 gigawattgigawatts. Coal and lignite,
13.8 gigawatts. And nuclear, 5.2gigawatts. So you see that solar
and wind together are 70gigawatts. They exceed natural
gas in the fossil state, whichis just amazing. But what are
(37:16):
your thoughts about what's goingon in ERCOT and you're
developing something called theTexas 10s? I would love to hear
a little bit about that. Bitabout that
Raina Tillman Hornaday (37:23):
market, sure. I mean, battery storage is
really was the missing piece,and it was. We've really tried
to incorporate batteries intoour projects for for a long
time. Now we just financially.
It didn't make sense, and now itdoes. It really makes solar and
wind make a lot of sense. Butwhen I look at those numbers
(37:47):
from ERCOT and like, like wetalked about the ERCOT
dashboards, really great, andit's just very you can get a
little energy education justbrowsing through there. They do
a great job. But I think myreaction to it's different than
most people, because when Ilooked at that today, the first
thing I thought about was 100 ofus testifying at the Capitol
(38:11):
during the legislative sessionto fight anti renewable bills.
That's why we had to do that.
Because solar and wind are areal player. You know, before it
was kind of just like, oh, thisis the Earth Day, you know, tree
hugger thing, green energy. Andnow, I mean, we're, we're, we're
(38:35):
a real player. So, um, you knowwe, we had, I'm sure you heard
about it, but we hadsignificant, very harmful anti
renewable legislation proposed,yes, and it got shot down. It
got shot down, but there was ahuge collaboration between all
(38:57):
the industries, all the industryorganizations. You know, we,
lots of times, we stay in ourlittle groups, and we don't
really, you know, play well withwith each other. Just don't have
a reason to we have our ownconferences. We have our own
dues and memberships. And thisis the first time that I've seen
(39:19):
every you know, sia showed up inTexas and really supported
things. Cleantex, powerhouseTexas was a very great convener
of people. And you know, JeffClark's organization, Advanced
Power Alliance. We had farmersand ranchers come from all over
(39:40):
the state. We had just everysingle part of the industry come
and sign up and say, Hey, thisis, you know, this directly
impacts what we've done, what wewant to do, the environment we
had the Nature Conservancy. Wehad Texas, you know, environment
Tech. Texas. It was just it wasso amazing to be part of it, the
(40:04):
Texas Solar Energy Society, whoI serve, on their board, and
they were there, and they'vebeen there since before Tria. So
I mean, having the legacy peoplethat have seen all this, this
was something that has neverhappened before. And we, we, you
know, we packed out this hearingroom, and we were there at 715
(40:27):
people were testifying at we'rethere at 7:15am people were
testifying at 7 (40:30):
15pm but it was so it was so heartwarming for me
to just see everyone cometogether and say, Hey, this is
our industry. This is good forTexans. This is good for farmers
and ranchers. Is good forcommunities. This is so it was,
it was just really amazing tosee. So when I look at that, I
(40:52):
that's the first thing I thinkabout is, hey, we're a real
threat to other generation rightnow. But, I mean, we're not
trying to be a threat. We alwayssay it's all of the above
approach. You know, we're partof the mix.
Tim Montague (41:06):
So, so anyway, so what is your advice in our last
few minutes together fordevelopers and EPCs working in
Texas or Southeast New Mexico,where you're integrating
projects into this rurallandscape of farming and
ranching and oil development oiland gas. What advice do you have
(41:31):
for developers to be moresuccessful?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (41:36):
Well, I think just working with local
leadership is really important,especially with with the battery
storage development, you justhave to incorporate the, you
know, the the local decisionmakers, the fire departments,
the you know, we always go intothese communities and and and do
(41:59):
zoning changes or and it'salways an education process, and
they always want more, you know,there's always somebody serving
on the board, is always also ateacher, of course, and or a
principal, and they say, Hey, wewant, we want renewable
education for our schools, forour science room. So I'm hoping,
you know, I think developerscan, can add a lot of value
(42:22):
there. You know, they can, theycan do presentations, and they
can do tours, and they can doscholarships. So I think the
more of that we see, the themore well received these
projects will be in thecommunity.
Tim Montague (42:38):
Hey, guys, are you a residential solar installer
doing light commercial butwanting to scale into large CNI
solar. I'm Tim Montague. I'vedeveloped over 150 megawatts of
commercial solar, and I'vesolved the problem that you're
having you don't know what toolsand technologies you need in
order to successfully close 100KW to megawatt scale projects.
(43:02):
I've developed a commercialsolar accelerator to help
installers exactly like you.
Just go to cleanpowerhour.comclick on strategy and book a
call today. It's totally freewith no obligation. Thanks for
being a listener. I reallyappreciate you listening to the
pod, and I'm Tim Montague, let'sgrow solar and storage. Go to
(43:22):
clean power hour and clickstrategy today. Thanks so much.
I hope this isn't the last timewe see you on the Clean Power
Hour. I've really enjoyed this.
Check out all of our content atcleanpowerhour.com. Please give
us a rating and a review onApple or Spotify. Give us a
(43:43):
thumbs up on YouTube. Subscribeto the channel, reach out to me
on LinkedIn. I love hearing frommy listeners. I look forward to
seeing you all in Vegas for replus in September, and with that
Raina Hornaday, how can ourlisteners find you?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (44:00):
LinkedIn is probably the best way. So I'm
on LinkedIn and online, andthank you so much for having me.
Tim Montague (44:07):
Thank you. Raina Hornaday, founder and CEO of
Caprock renewables. I'm TimMontague. Let's grow solar and
storage.
Talked about the ERCOT dashboards
(00:01):
really great, and it's just veryyou can get a little energy
education just browsing throughthere, they do a great job. But
I think my reaction to it'sdifferent than most people,
because when I looked at thattoday, the first thing I thought
about was 100 of us testifyingat the Capitol during the
(00:22):
legislative session to fightanti renewable bills. That's why
we had to do that, because solarand wind are a real player.
intro (00:35):
Are you speeding the energy transition here at the
Clean Power Hour, our host TimMontague, bring you the best in
solar, batteries and cleantechnologies every week. Want to
go deeper into decarbonization.
We do too. We're here to helpyou understand and command the
commercial, residential andutility, solar, wind and storage
industries. So let's get to ittogether. We can speed the
(00:56):
energy transition
Tim Montague (01:01):
today on the Clean Power Hour the Texas renewables
market. My guest is RainaHornaday. She has an incredible
origin story. She is the founderand CEO of Caprock renewables.
She's been involved in wind, insolar, in microgrids. She's on
the board of soul smart. She hasher fingers in so many things. I
(01:22):
wish I could talk to you allday, Raina, but welcome to the
Raina Tillman Hornaday (01:24):
show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's my pleasure.
Tim Montague (01:28):
It is truly an honor. And before we go any
further, please tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself and how you gotinterested in renewables.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (01:40):
Sure happy to be here. You've said.
My name is Raina Hornaday. I amcurrently in Austin, Texas. I've
been a Texan now for 25 years,but I'm from eastern New Mexico.
My family home set it out therein 1906 and when you grow up in
the country and you farm andranch and you're part of that
(02:02):
community and environmentconservation and Water and
Electric conservation, and howto work with renewable energy
resources, just for everydaylife, is really just part of who
we are and what we do. And so itjust was very natural. We had
(02:23):
solar wells, and we use solar,of course, all the time for
growing crops and all thenatural things. Windmills were a
big part of our life for water,and could not survive without
wind and windmills, and evenbefore, there are transmission
lines out there, every kind ofhomestead had a wind charger for
(02:45):
electricity. So it was a verynatural fit for me to continue
and get more involved inrenewables throughout my career,
and it's just been such, such agreat career path for me, and I
see it benefiting landowners andcommunities, and it's just been
very rewarding to see it grow somuch in my lifetime.
Tim Montague (03:08):
So paint us a picture the cap rock ranch in
southeastern New Mexico. What?
What is the what? What all goeson there? And tell us a little
bit about your family's historyin the wind industry.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (03:23):
Okay, so my dad's family had homesteaded
on the High Plains. It's kind ofthe Northern plateau, the llano,
Estacado, and kind of the middleof the state, but very flat. You
can see 365, all the way.
There's nothing seeing you,impairing your vision all the
way around, which is a unique, Ithink, to how a lot of people
(03:46):
grow up. So sunrises, sunsets,super clear storms. You know,
you can observe a storm all day.
But my my father's family weredry land farmers, and so my dad
was a dry land farmer, but hewas also involved in the eastern
plains Council of Governments.
He was an executive directorthere for 30 years. And so he, I
(04:08):
mean, it is very windy. The windresource on our property, and in
that part of the country is someof the best in the country,
which you don't reallyappreciate when you're day to
day farming and working withcattle, because it's often a,
you know, you can't hear and youcan't hear a rattlesnake, if
(04:28):
it's, you know, if you'reopening a gate and there's
rattlesnake there, I mean, thewind is is a huge issue. You
have to park your truck acertain way. You can only open
so many doors at a time, so wejust work with the wind. But
like I said, before, we have tohave it. If the wind doesn't
blow for a couple of days in arow, and it's we're in a
(04:49):
drought, we'll have to haulwater for the cows. So we,
really, we, you know, are veryaware of the wind. And how much
it blows and if it doesn't blow.
So it's just like I said, it'sfunny to be so so connected with
it. So my dad, as part of hiswork with the eastern plains
(05:13):
Council of Governments, put up asmall MET tower on our farm
overlooking the cap rock looksdown onto our ranch, which is a
cow calf operation, and so thatthat MET tower gathered data for
a couple years, and I ran acrossone of the chips the other day,
(05:36):
and so I he was able to retainthat data. And when projects are
built around met data, that'show they're financed. And so I
took that data to renewableenergy roundup event in
Fredericksburg, put on by theTexas Renewable Energy
(05:58):
Industries Alliance, which I wason the board of and supported
for years and years, and I'mstill working with the found the
historical foundation that hasall that information of all the
work they did. So I went to thatevent and interviewed a couple
developers for wind, and thatwas how the cap rock wind
(06:19):
project ended up being, becomingin existence as a development,
and then it was constructed, andI told you earlier, but It's
recently been repowered the 80megawatt, 80 megawatts, and the
80 wind turbines were actuallytaken down and decommissioned,
and they weren't repoweredbecause they weren't the type of
(06:41):
wind turbines that really couldbe repowered.
Tim Montague (06:43):
So they they developed, they ended up
developing a 80 megawatt windfarm on the property, right? Or
8480 megawatts, yeah, okay, andthis was back in the early 2000s
right? Yes.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (06:56):
It was the first utility scale wind
project in in New Mexico, andleeward, leeward owns it now,
and they, they utilize that 80megawatt interconnect and put up
80 megawatts of bigger turbines.
So it's it now, it's to to thewest of our property. So you,
you can't, I mean, it very muchchanged our landscape at the
(07:17):
ranch, because we could see all80 turbines from from the ranch
and now, I mean, they're fartherdown the cap rock so. But, you
know, the rural communitiesappreciate developments like
this because they come with, youknow, benefits for the
communities?
Tim Montague (07:34):
Oh, for sure. So, yeah. I mean, I think sometimes
we forget that renewables arepart of the landscape. You know,
with with wind turbines usedprimarily for pumping water, but
then also for powering off gridoperations, right with
electricity dating way, wayback. And of course, there's a
(07:59):
modern era in wind forelectricity generation, which is
what we're talking about herewith your with your ranch. And
now we've reached a point wherethese projects are reaching 20
years in, you know, of life, andthey need to be repowered. And
so towers are coming down, andyou're getting new technology,
and away you go. So well, let'sget we have a lot of ground to
(08:23):
cover, so we we have to move on.
Unfortunately, I'd love to justgeek out on wind in Southeast
New Mexico, but you have yourfingers in so many things and
and you know what? One of thethings we're going to show our
listener today, if you'rewatching on video, is the ERCOT
dashboard. And you know, Texasis a fascinating market because
it is the nexus of fossiltechnology, gas, oil, but also
(08:48):
renewables, right? It's a major,major wind market, and now a
major solar market. Over 10gigawatts of solar was installed
in 2024 in Texas, right? That'syears worth, many years worth,
sometimes a decade's worth ofsolar for most American markets.
Texas has more solar going intoit now on an annual basis than
(09:14):
California, which was the bigdog before, and and, yes, there
are headwinds from the federallevel against wind and solar,
but guess what? There's stillgoing to be a lot of wind and
solar development, and that'sjust because it's cost
effective, right?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (09:35):
The momentum is so, so strong.
There's just not no way to stopit at this point,
Tim Montague (09:40):
exactly, there is no stopping wind, solar and
batteries. But let's talk aboutthe Texas Renewable Energy
Industries Association, Tria,which joined with clean TX in
2020, as I understand it. So nowit's goes by the Montague clean
TX. But for for those of us whodon't work in Texas directly,
(10:04):
this landscape is is littleunderstood. So tell us about
Tria and why you're so committedto that organization.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (10:12):
Well, like I said, that's that their
event that they put on, therenewable energy Roundup, was
kind of like an outdoor eventwith rainwater catchment folks
and all kinds of different itwas kind of like a Earth Day
event. And so that's how I wasable to meet the people I needed
to in the industry to get myproject going. And then I joined
(10:37):
the board in 2014 worked withleaders in around I was on
thought leadership, so puttogether a lot of thought
leadership things around ourconferences, which I want to
talk a little bit more about.
But webinars. We have luncheonsfor legislative policy topics.
And when Tria was established in1985 it was really to garner and
(11:02):
get renewables going at alegislative level, and we had
Mike Osborne and Russell Smithand a group of entrepreneurial
folks that went to DC andinserted themselves in the
conversation and got some thingsacross the finish line, and were
able to really help back when,you know, back in the 70s when
(11:24):
the PUC was established and theregulatory policies Act was
written. And so that thathistory is so fascinating. But
as the industry did grow, andthose folks were very, very
involved in the first solarprojects and the first wind
projects, and getting those overthe line at the legislative
(11:44):
level and for educationalreasons, supporting the
education around it. They thethe wind and solar industries
kind of started their ownlobbying efforts. So we stepped
away from any lobbying, and wejust became a convener. So we
still have lots of events. Wehave chapters now in Dallas and
(12:06):
Houston that have their ownleadership, and it's just been
wonderful to to watch it grow,and watch how many connections
and kind of successfulcollaborations have happened
through the the partnershipsthat that clean text has with
the industry and with otherorganizations. If, when, when
(12:28):
conferences come to Texas, wewill host a welcome reception,
Welcome to Texas reception. Andthose have been really
successful. And then we have ourown conference, which was called
Texas renewables. And holla whenshe was holla blues, which is
former CEO of electric powerengineers. She's now still very
(12:52):
active, but doing creativethings. She was big part of the
Crez citing, and she was thepresident of Tria for for some
time, and she renamed theconference grid next, because
once the renewables were reallygoing, you know how to, how to
incorporate those into amodernized grid, was really what
(13:12):
we wanted to focus on with ourconferences. So grid Next, we
have one in Dallas and one inAustin this year, and they're
very, very technicalconferences. And so we just have
such a awesome group that workwith the industry from all
across the the renewables andoil and gas. So that collision
(13:33):
has happened, we go to nape. Idon't know if you know nape, but
it's a big oil and gasconference in Houston, I think
one of the biggest. And we have,we have a renewable section
there now, which is just reallyunbelievable. So watching
renewables grow up, and we havea lot of oil and gas overlap,
(13:56):
lots of people getting intorenewables from oil and gas, and
lots of oil and gas groups thatneed renewables to support their
their consumption.
Tim Montague (14:09):
A fun fact I learned speaking to you in the
pre interview was that T bonePickens, who's really famous,
quote, unquote, in the windindustry, never actually
developed wind projects. How isthat possible that somebody can
get away with that? I'm just,I'm kind of almost,
Raina Tillman Hornaday (14:28):
he did develop, I think he did develop
a couple renewable projects, bigones, and, you know, purchase
the land, and he maybe, I thinkhe had had some studies funded.
But what he just didn't, theydidn't get built, I see, yeah,
but, but Texas Monthly pickedhim up. And obviously he's a
(14:49):
very charismatic, big, bigenergy guy. So I think he just
get, got a lot of fanfare aroundthose, those developments. But
that. They didn't get end upgetting built, yeah.
Tim Montague (15:03):
So you got into solar in about 2015 as I
understand, is that right? Yes.
And so you've been in in solarfor a decade. Paint us a
picture, you know, as Imentioned there's, you know, 10
plus gigawatts of solar cominginto Texas, but that's mostly
(15:25):
utility scale solar. What'sgoing on with distributed
generation? And you commentedthat, you know, oil and gas also
needs renewables. I'm curiouswhat comes to mind for you about
that, sure?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (15:43):
Well, the oil and gas sector, they
they use a lot of power for whatthey do, and their projects are
kind of fast, and they havereally well funded developments
most of the time. So if theywant, if they need power, they
get power. So there, there's alot of kind of smaller
transmission lines that arebuilt in West Texas, I think, to
(16:05):
to get power to the next wellthat's that's being built out
for for oil and gas. But there'sgenerally a lack of of enough
power in West Texas because itis so remote. We have a couple
customers that are at the end ofco op lines, and they'll lose
(16:25):
power just because the oil andgas load is so high on at
different times. So folks likethat really, if there's a
solution for them, if there's amicrogrid solution, or if
there's a solar solution orstorage, they want that
investment for the peace of mindthat their power is not going to
be, you know, they're not goingto have any, any lack of of
(16:49):
power anytime for a weatherevent or or load from other
places. So when, when it cameout that our load growth was
going to be so so high for thefirst time in 50 years. Really,
lot of people have had a lot ofconcern about, hey, I was
(17:10):
already intermittent at sometimes because of my location or
because of weather. So I thinkpeople are really looking at how
they can be more energyindependent themselves with
their operations, especially oiland gas, or farming and and
ranching and in ruralcommunities. And then the AI, of
course, is, is the the nextlevel of of load that is, mean,
(17:36):
AI, data centers. Yeah, the datacenters. You know, there's a new
one announced every day, justhere in Texas, and I know
they're, they're already inother places, but it's
interesting because theannouncements always include
renewables as part of thesolution. And I really think
water is going to be a big partof of the the issues and
(18:00):
planning. I just, I wish we hada little bit more planning time
around these centers, because Ithink we're really going to need
to plan it from a gridperspective. But just that much
load our grids just aged. Weneed to modernize the grid.
Tim Montague (18:15):
So true, it's, it's kind of ironic, right?
Because these these gridoperators are regulated
monopolies for the most part,whether they're public power or
private power. And you know,they have a responsibility to
society to deliver, you know,99.999% uptime, and they do
(18:40):
generally do a pretty good jobof that, with some notable
exceptions now, like Storm Yuri,which was a major black eye,
but, but they're not keeping upwith the times, and that
structure allows them to reallyresist change in some ways that
are, I think, quite negative asas we energy professionals
(19:02):
recognize that the grid is notkeeping up, things have changed.
There is this thing calledsolar, wind and batteries, and
it's actually really good forthe grid operators. You can
build it in a timely manner. Youcan build it cheaply and get it
on the grid, which is a hugething now, right? Because we
have this load growth. Youmentioned AI data centers.
(19:23):
There's a massive project inWest Texas. I read about that
Crusoe is developing. It's agigawatt plus scale. It involves
solar batteries and natural gasgenerators. And there's, there's
a reason why these developersare using solar, wind and
batteries. It's all about money.
Money drives everything, really,in the real world, in the built
(19:47):
environment. And I you know manyof us in renewables also care
about decarbonizing the economyand creating a healthier, safer
future. For humanity, and that'sa wonderful mission, and I'm
fully on board with thatmission, but it is money that
makes the world go round. So tothat effect, I guess Reina, you
(20:10):
know, when it comes to DG, andyou, you know, you are involved
in some agrivoltaics projects,which I just love, because it's
good for farmers. It's good forsolar developers. It gives rural
communities an additional sourceof revenue. But how did you get
(20:31):
interested in agrivoltaics andand what's going on there in
Texas and New Mexico?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (20:41):
Well, it's just kind of goes back to
my, you know, family farming andranching. But I got my master's
from Texas Tech in energy in2022 and I did my thesis on
agrivoltaics. And at that time,I mean, it was all about how you
pronounce it. And now I feellike I know it's just kind of my
(21:03):
algorithm, but I feel like it'sso incredibly popular now and
all over. So I love that it'sbeen great to watch it grow and
be defined. And working withAmerican Farmland Trust on
educating farmers andagrivoltaics, which I really,
really like. But when I got intoutility scale solar development,
(21:28):
you just the scale of theliterally utility scale, just
the how many acres that we'recovering with glass is
incredible for these big 100 andmy last project was 300
megawatts. So it's, you know,it's a substantial piece of
property, and to take thatcompletely out of Ag, isn't
(21:52):
always a great idea. And Ishared with you before, but one
of the consequences of these bigprojects that nobody really was
prepared for was just the amountof the cost associated with
dealing with the weeds orwhatever was growing underneath
the panel. So I feel like theindustry's really done a great
(22:13):
job at learning quickly fromthat and doing, you know,
implementing sheep under panels,solar sheep, which I love, and
then now pollinators. What whatnaturally? What natural grasses?
What's what grows? What's bestfor the soil, what stabilizes
(22:33):
the soil best? So that researchis ongoing, and we work with
University of Texas in the RioGrande Valley with we're doing
10 project we're installing 10agrivoltague projects for them,
and they're small, they're notlarge, but the data from those
projects will help financebigger installations for for
(22:55):
agrivoltague projects, that'sactually farming and growing
crops under panels, which is alittle different than the solar
sheep as agrivoltagues, butthey're, you know, it's
happening in Texas and hat. Wejust have so much land here. I
mean, it's happened, you know,it's taken place in Europe and
(23:16):
New England, because the landconstraints are so, so much more
there so much more of avariable. But here we have so
much land, and so I think to theextent we can really incorporate
soil scientists and what is bestfor the community, the
environment, the landowners, therural the rural folks, is going
(23:42):
to really help these projects toto be better in wherever they
are as as the developments goforward. So I'm really
optimistic about aboutagrivoltagues for the world.
Tim Montague (23:56):
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call 855584, 855-584-7168, tofind out more, I'm fresh off the
heels of year three of the solarfarm Summit, which is a
dedicated agrivoltaicsconference in Chicago, and one
of the emerging phenomena at theconference this year was. Was
cattle voltaics. So grazingcattle on solar farms, it's
(25:03):
becoming a thing. There's somenice trial projects, and the
technology is really there. Ihad an interview with solar
geek, which is an Israelitracker company which really has
this dialed in. But, you know,the thing that I mean, there are
many angles to agrivoltague thatI love, but the one that I love
(25:27):
the most is that this is acarrot for rural communities
that, in many places, arepushing back against wind and
solar development for a varietyof reasons, some of them well
informed. Some of them not sowell informed. The well informed
pushback is a phenomenon thatresults when there's a
(25:49):
concentration of development ina certain jurisdiction. And you
can imagine this is a nuancethat I think a lot of people
don't recognize. Infrastructureis not spread evenly across the
landscape, right? The powerlines, the substations, the
trends, the the tnd, thetransmission and distribution
(26:12):
lines run in specificjurisdictions and in specific
areas and and the development ofsolar and wind occurs closer to
that infrastructure. And so youcan get these clusters. And
sometimes that can seem like abarrage to local rural
communities, and then they go,hey guys, okay, we're done. And
(26:35):
then there are nefariouscampaigns to miseducate people
about the negatives. But youknow, when you really get under
the covers of rural wind andsolar, it's really good for the
local economy. And agrivoltaics,as I started to say, is a carrot
for these communities where youcan say, Look, you don't have to
(26:58):
stop grazing or raising crops onthe land. It's a both and, and
now you can have an additionalsource of income, whether that's
a lease payment or electricityfor your farm operation. It's a
both and, right? I'm just doinga story in PB magazine on
vertical racking by facialvertical racking. It's, it's an
(27:22):
awesome innovation that ishardly, uh, established here in
the US, but certainly a thing inEurope.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (27:30):
I think we're gonna see a lot of that in
the agrivoltague space, is kindof these almost greenhouse type
structures that that become kindof more open air. So I think
we're going to see that, and weneed it. Energy security and
food security are hand in hand,so I agree. You know, there is a
(27:52):
there has been quite a bit ofpushback in Texas and around the
country for utility scaleprojects. And like you said,
it's a carrot, but it's also asolution, and that's where
education comes in, too andresponsible development. So
we're losing and that's why Ilike working with, you know, The
Nature Conservancy of AmericanFarmland Trust, because they
(28:14):
really can, can help witheducating and doing analysis of
how much farmland were we using?
Were we losing anyway? A lot. Wewere already losing farmland for
all these different reasons.
Urban sprawl being the big dog,right? Well, and generational,
uh, family farming just, youknow, isn't, isn't sustainable.
(28:39):
Um, I'm not doing it, and it'sjust it's hard to do. So that's
some. We have some real greatsuccess stories here in Texas of
solar projects that are doingagrivoltaics, and their kids are
in college, and their kids aredoing the solar sheep thing, and
so they know about energy, andin all the different possible
(29:00):
career paths associated withfarming and energy farming. So I
love that. I think we'll see itmore. But I always come from the
opposite viewpoint, which is Ideveloped tons of wind in the
panhandle, and every singlelandowner that we worked with
(29:21):
was just so appreciative,because farmers and ranchers
need every single source ofincome that they can get an
added value, because weexperience extreme droughts, and
that's going to continue andpotentially get worse with with
Climate change. So So I alwaysworked with these ultra
(29:43):
appreciative landowners,because, hey, you want to, you
want to pay me for the wind?
That's amazing. And wind isdifferent. Of course, you can
farm around it and and rancharound it, which is great. But
then also, you know, the schoolgym. Um, got, you know, there's
a new school, complete facilityfrom from the tax benefits of
(30:05):
it, and so it's so neat in ruralareas like that. And then when
you come into different parts ofTexas, it's just, it's every
different areas very unique, andwe just need to be responsible
and have have development thatthat is responsible and make
sense, and really put more timeand effort into the pre
(30:28):
development work for the land,to see what grows best and what
works best and and let'smaximize. Let's make it not dual
use. But you know, let's dopollinators around the edges.
And again, that's farmers andranchers are that's what they
know how to do. They know whatgrows. They know how it grows.
They know when it grows. So wehave to have them more involved
(30:50):
in development and on theirproperty. So I think the
opportunities are great there.
And we need the food. We needmore. We need to grow more food
than we than we do.
Tim Montague (31:02):
So, yeah, what I love is this food, energy, water
nexus of agrivoltagues, alsowhich Helga birnath at at Sun is
is fond of promoting it's wateris super precious and rare in
some parts of the country, likethe southwest, right? If you go
(31:25):
to West Texas, it's super arid,and so you have to be very
careful with your waterresources. Same with Southeast
New Mexico. As I said to you inthe pre interview, I grew up in
Albuquerque, but I reallyhaven't considered moving back
to New Mexico because I'mconcerned about the future of
water in the state of NewMexico. It's, it's kind of
(31:47):
scary, but, but anyway, here I
Raina Tillman Hornaday (31:49):
am. For me, that's one of the main
benefits, side benefits ofagrivoltaics Is it really does
help prevent evaporation, asmuch evaporation, and when you
get to cattle voltaics and andagrivoltaics, it's the shade. I
mean, the extreme. Yeah, you canharvest the resource of the sun,
but the animals really needshade, and this is a great
(32:13):
solution for that. So I love tosee, you know, I looked at the
lasso project, the large animalsolar. It was a grant that was
out there, and so worked on acouple of different potential
projects for that grant. Andit's, it's stalled out now, but
I think we're going to see itand it makes sense. And then,
and then the the windagrovoltaic solution, the the
(32:38):
wind solution, that's kind of,you know, where you can have
cattle and horses around panels.
You could do that with solar,which would really solve a lot
of problems, including energycost.
Tim Montague (32:50):
Yes, and that is another irony of the State of
the State is the the obbb, thebig, beautiful bill is causing
drastic inflation in energyprices at a time when there's
rapid growth in grid demand,right from Ai, from
(33:12):
electrification oftransportation. And, you know, I
saw an estimate from envers thatonly 30% of solar projects might
survive the cliff that the OB BBis going to cause, starting in
2028 it's kind of happy days.
There's going to be a boom.
We're going to go to maybe 60gigawatts in 2026 of solar in
(33:36):
the US. And then if thing, ifsomething, you know, if there's
not a stepping back from theobbb, there is going to be a
cliff, so, but let's talk aboutTria. There's a 40th anniversary
coming up for the TexasRenewable Energy Industries
Alliance, and which is now it'ssafe to say it is just clean
(34:01):
techs, right?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (34:03):
Yeah, and what happened with with Tria
and all the kind of artifactsfrom all the hard work that Tria
did, and it did pass on intoclean techs, but they created
the Texas Historical renewableFoundation, and so they're
(34:23):
digitizing all the originalnewsletters and all the
conferences and all thespeeches. So we're going to
really highlight that goingforward during this event and
and we're going to have, we'regoing to do some fundraising
stuff for for that organization.
And, like I said, the storiesare just so rich, and history so
(34:44):
so interesting, and people Ijust, I don't know that, that
most people are aware of it. Sohoping to bring a lot of
awareness to to, you know, thefoundation that was set that
we're building renewable. Onnow.
Tim Montague (35:01):
So that event, 40th anniversary luncheon is
September 23 2025 at the centralAustin library in Austin, Texas.
So check that out, and it's justclean text. Dot O, R, G, so
yeah, please check that out.
Clean text.org, and that'samazing that there is a 40th
(35:22):
anniversary of this organizationhappening.
Raina Tillman Hornaday (35:28):
Who knew? Yeah, and Austin energies
are one of our, our partners inthat, and they're celebrating
the 20th anniversary of theirsolar program. And Austin Energy
has been great with helping, youknow, buy renewables. They
bought power from one of thefirst wind projects in West
Texas, and so they'll be there.
And, you know, we work with alot of we work with CPS, and a
(35:51):
lot of the different utilitiesand providers around the state.
Work with ERCOT on educationaround renewables, so it's
really great.
Tim Montague (36:04):
Speaking of ERCOT, I'm going to put the ERCOT
dashboard on screen, which I didnot know existed, but this is a
lovely dashboard of real timeenergy generation by source and
a monthly capacity. Look back,and I'm just going to read out
for our audio listeners what'sgoing on here. I'm going to, I'm
(36:26):
going to read the monthlycapacity figure. So it just
goes, not in order of size, butit's just ordered, okay, solar,
31.9 gigawatts. Wind, 39.9gigawatts. Hydro, 573 megawatts
storage, 13.9 gigawatts. Other152 megawatts natural gas. This
(36:52):
is the big dog, 66.2 gigawattgigawatts. Coal and lignite,
13.8 gigawatts. And nuclear, 5.2gigawatts. So you see that solar
and wind together are 70gigawatts. They exceed natural
gas in the fossil state, whichis just amazing. But what are
(37:16):
your thoughts about what's goingon in ERCOT and you're
developing something called theTexas 10s? I would love to hear
a little bit about that. Bitabout that
Raina Tillman Hornaday (37:23):
market, sure. I mean, battery storage is
really was the missing piece,and it was. We've really tried
to incorporate batteries intoour projects for for a long
time. Now we just financially.
It didn't make sense, and now itdoes. It really makes solar and
wind make a lot of sense. Butwhen I look at those numbers
(37:47):
from ERCOT and like, like wetalked about the ERCOT
dashboards, really great, andit's just very you can get a
little energy education justbrowsing through there. They do
a great job. But I think myreaction to it's different than
most people, because when Ilooked at that today, the first
thing I thought about was 100 ofus testifying at the Capitol
(38:11):
during the legislative sessionto fight anti renewable bills.
That's why we had to do that.
Because solar and wind are areal player. You know, before it
was kind of just like, oh, thisis the Earth Day, you know, tree
hugger thing, green energy. Andnow, I mean, we're, we're, we're
(38:35):
a real player. So, um, you knowwe, we had, I'm sure you heard
about it, but we hadsignificant, very harmful anti
renewable legislation proposed,yes, and it got shot down. It
got shot down, but there was ahuge collaboration between all
(38:57):
the industries, all the industryorganizations. You know, we,
lots of times, we stay in ourlittle groups, and we don't
really, you know, play well withwith each other. Just don't have
a reason to we have our ownconferences. We have our own
dues and memberships. And thisis the first time that I've seen
(39:19):
every you know, sia showed up inTexas and really supported
things. Cleantex, powerhouseTexas was a very great convener
of people. And you know, JeffClark's organization, Advanced
Power Alliance. We had farmersand ranchers come from all over
(39:40):
the state. We had just everysingle part of the industry come
and sign up and say, Hey, thisis, you know, this directly
impacts what we've done, what wewant to do, the environment we
had the Nature Conservancy. Wehad Texas, you know, environment
Tech. Texas. It was just it wasso amazing to be part of it, the
(40:04):
Texas Solar Energy Society, whoI serve, on their board, and
they were there, and they'vebeen there since before Tria. So
I mean, having the legacy peoplethat have seen all this, this
was something that has neverhappened before. And we, we, you
know, we packed out this hearingroom, and we were there at 715
(40:27):
people were testifying at we'rethere at 7:15am people were
testifying at 7 (40:30):
15pm but it was so it was so heartwarming for me
to just see everyone cometogether and say, Hey, this is
our industry. This is good forTexans. This is good for farmers
and ranchers. Is good forcommunities. This is so it was,
it was just really amazing tosee. So when I look at that, I
(40:52):
that's the first thing I thinkabout is, hey, we're a real
threat to other generation rightnow. But, I mean, we're not
trying to be a threat. We alwayssay it's all of the above
approach. You know, we're partof the mix.
Tim Montague (41:06):
So, so anyway, so what is your advice in our last
few minutes together fordevelopers and EPCs working in
Texas or Southeast New Mexico,where you're integrating
projects into this rurallandscape of farming and
ranching and oil development oiland gas. What advice do you have
(41:31):
for developers to be moresuccessful?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (41:36):
Well, I think just working with local
leadership is really important,especially with with the battery
storage development, you justhave to incorporate the, you
know, the the local decisionmakers, the fire departments,
the you know, we always go intothese communities and and and do
(41:59):
zoning changes or and it'salways an education process, and
they always want more, you know,there's always somebody serving
on the board, is always also ateacher, of course, and or a
principal, and they say, Hey, wewant, we want renewable
education for our schools, forour science room. So I'm hoping,
you know, I think developerscan, can add a lot of value
(42:22):
there. You know, they can, theycan do presentations, and they
can do tours, and they can doscholarships. So I think the
more of that we see, the themore well received these
projects will be in thecommunity.
Tim Montague (42:38):
Hey, guys, are you a residential solar installer
doing light commercial butwanting to scale into large CNI
solar. I'm Tim Montague. I'vedeveloped over 150 megawatts of
commercial solar, and I'vesolved the problem that you're
having you don't know what toolsand technologies you need in
order to successfully close 100KW to megawatt scale projects.
(43:02):
I've developed a commercialsolar accelerator to help
installers exactly like you.
Just go to cleanpowerhour.comclick on strategy and book a
call today. It's totally freewith no obligation. Thanks for
being a listener. I reallyappreciate you listening to the
pod, and I'm Tim Montague, let'sgrow solar and storage. Go to
(43:22):
clean power hour and clickstrategy today. Thanks so much.
I hope this isn't the last timewe see you on the Clean Power
Hour. I've really enjoyed this.
Check out all of our content atcleanpowerhour.com. Please give
us a rating and a review onApple or Spotify. Give us a
(43:43):
thumbs up on YouTube. Subscribeto the channel, reach out to me
on LinkedIn. I love hearing frommy listeners. I look forward to
seeing you all in Vegas for replus in September, and with that
Raina Hornaday, how can ourlisteners find you?
Raina Tillman Hornaday (44:00):
LinkedIn is probably the best way. So I'm
on LinkedIn and online, andthank you so much for having me.
Tim Montague (44:07):
Thank you. Raina Hornaday, founder and CEO of
Caprock renewables. I'm TimMontague. Let's grow solar and
storage.
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