Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So I identify as a humanbeing first, to be honest and
all of and then sheher we have to, you know,
go into those details.
Um, and I'm a lesbian and proudof saying that now took a long
time to get there, but, um,that's where I am today.
Hello everyone, and welcome forgood is a bi weekly podcast
(00:20):
that showcases personal andpowerful conversations with
prominent LGBTQ+ executives whoare out in the workplace.
The conversations are meant tocreate a supportive community
and inspire LGBTQ+ people,their employers, and allies to
build equity and inclusionin the workplace.
Today, I'm honored towelcome Valerie Madden.
(00:42):
Valerie is aseasoned creative director and
community activist.
She's worked with brands suchas NBC, Amazon, MGM Studios,
Amazon Prime, and several otheragencies and companies that
you'll hear about today.
She's contributed to themarketing of over 300 TV series
and films, with titlesincluding Fleabag, transparent,
(01:03):
and Good Omens, just toname a few.
Valerie served on the board ofdirectors for Outfest, the Los
Angeles LGBTQ Film festival,and has volunteered with
countlessother LGBTQ organizations.
Professionally, she's held DNIleadership roles with out at
NBCu and Glamazon, whichis the LGBTQ employee resource
(01:25):
group at Amazon.
Val, thanks so much forjoining me today.
Oh, it's such a pleasureto be here.
I've been enjoyingyour podcast, so I've been
listening to it.
Thank you so much.
Well, I'm so glad.
I'm so glad you're here I can'twait I, I having known you for
a while, I know youhave a really interesting and
robust background, so I knowyou've got a lot of
things to share.
So let's let's jump in.
(01:45):
So the first thing I always askguests is to tell us just a
little bit about howdo you identify.
And I know this is a loaded andcan be a complicated question,
but maybe tell usa little bit about coming
out professionally.
And I certainly know that's notalways a one and done situation.
So.
Let us know a little bit abouthow you identify and how you
(02:08):
have come out over the years.
Sure.
So I identify as a humanbeing first, to be honest.
And all of and then sheher we have to, you know,
go into those details.
Um, and I'm a lesbian and proudof saying that now took a long
time to get there.
But, um, that's whereI am today.
(02:28):
And and then for coming out.
That is a wonderful story,and probably I'm going to try
to hone it in andkeep it focused more on the
professional side for this one,but that could be
a whole nother.
But people have told me I canmake a movie out of my story,
so let's see how farwe get into it today.
But great.
Basically, I came out in mymid 20s, so that was like in
(02:50):
the 1995 area erof time, and this was
before the internet.
So I'm going to putthat context out.
It was just starting tocome out, but we didn't have
access to it.
Um, and I was born and raisedfirst in Chicago, first 12
years of my life.
And then we moved toNorth Carolina, which is the
Bible Belt, and was there tillmy early 20s and loved being
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in North Carolina.
And but my circle groups wereall around church, uh, FCA,
Fellowship ofChristian Athletes, um,
Bible studies, uh,that type of thing.
That was my life, my worldoutside of my friends and
my neighborhood, though.
That's what I did all the time.
So that's all I knew.
And my parents weren'tnecessarily churchgoers.
(03:37):
As a matter of fact, when Iturned 16, my parents told me,
hey, if you want to goto church, you have
your license, you can go.
We're not going to go as often.
And meaning my mom was had somecrazy allergies, so she
couldn't go because there's somuch perfume in the churches,
she couldn't do it.
So I still chose I loved it,I loved every bit of it.
But we were taught not to.
(04:01):
Well, I shouldn't say not.
We were taught thathomosexuality was wrong from a
very young age and andor it wasn't even discussed.
I didn't even know itwas an option.
And throughout high school andjunior high, I mean mostly
high school, I dated alittle bit, but there wasn't a
longing for me to to date.
I wasn't that wasn't oneof my focus.
But it was challenging.
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And I and I look back, yes,I had crushes on girls, but I
didn't know what that meant.
I just thought it wasfriendship and went through
that whole journey.
Went to college, I went to artschool and I went to East
Carolina University, which iswas known at the time as the
Party School of North Carolina.
But it was also art school, too.
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So a little bit of both,and it was a full education.
And while being there,I actually did not drink,
I didn't smoke, I didn't doanything that was a part of the
party aspect in that, as amatter of fact, I would.
I was so involved in the churchthat I joined InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship navigators,any type
of prayer church organizationsas a part of ECU.
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And that, again, is where Ibuilt my friend groups.
And that combined with where Iwas in art school.
So again, no understanding thatI could be out.
And this was in the late80s and, and had no idea the
whole Aids crisis was happening.
Not clueless of anyof that stuff.
I didn't learn about thatso many, many years ago.
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Which, uh, shows you howprotected I was in that space.
Mhm.
So in the midst of all that, I,I, uh, the four years of art
school were wonderful.
And I actually had my firstfell in love with a woman
toward the latter half,I think my junior year.
And it blew my mind.
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I'm like, what am Igoing to do with this?
You know, youwe had these incredible
feelings and experiences.
But I wasin leadership for InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship.
I was, uh, leading Biblestudies was in all it was.
And I didn't know whatto do with all of that.
So it was intense.
(06:07):
It was both beautiful andchallenging and, um, difficult.
And the two of usexplored one another.
But at the same time,we're very much in the closet.
And because we didn't knowhow to, to manage that.
So the leadership at the time,we told a few folks and they
pretty much counseled us to notbe together, the counselors.
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And they took meout of my leadership roles.
And so slowly that was tryingto be, uh, working through and
counseling throughthe whole process.
And after that, uh, two years,I think we dated each other or
were around each other, but wealso dated guys because but the
luckily when we weredating guys, we didn't have to
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worry about it because we don'thave sex before marriage, so I
didn't have to worryabout that side of it.
It was more innocent type of.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, um, and met somany beautiful people.
But it was really hard.
And so after graduating, um,she went and got married to
a man, had kids, family.
She's very happy.
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And we broke up andI left and I joined.
I don't know if y'all know this,but it's Exodus International.
So because I was like, I don'twant to be gay if this is
my struggle, I was taughtthat it's wrong.
I can't be a part of this.
So I did whatever I could tonot be in that space.
And I went right to it.
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And.
And that in itselfwas eye opening.
And I was dating a beautifulman at the time.
We were havinga great relationship.
He was everything you couldever want in a relationship,
and he was supportive.
He knew what I wasstruggling with, so it was very
open and honest.
And we, uh,were talking through it.
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And when I was in Exodus,I actually met the second girl
who I got a crush on, and Istarted having feelings for her.
So in that I'm like, I can't bewith anybody until I figure
this stuff out becauseit's not fair to them.
It's not fair to myself.
And so I felt like I hadto be fully on my own and, um,
meet with people, date withpeople a little bit.
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And then whenI'm in the workplace,
obviously there's nothing tocome out to because I didn't
know who I was.
So it wasn't like, you know,on the weekends if I was
doing anything, you know,I didn't have to worry about
talking about it.
And I was working.
I started working at a printerright out of school and did a
little bit of that, but I endedup getting an offer to go and
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work at Liberty University andLiberty Broadcast Network.
And I don't know how many ofyour audience currently know
who is at the helm ofall that, but it's Jerry
Falwell and a friend of minewho I went to art school with
was the creative director,and he knew also what I was
struggling with, and he wassuch a beautiful soul.
He still is.
And he said, well,come and work here.
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We don't have to tell Jerry.
We don't have to tell anybody.
Just you have a great job.
You'll be out of everythingelse that you're familiar with.
But you can come hereand, um, do what you do.
Great.
Which is an art director and,um, and figure out who you want
to be and what you want to do.
So that's what I did.
I went and worked for him fornine months, and I had just
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started dating another girlbefore that, but it was
I again, I didn't want to diveinto that relationship, be the
U-Haul lesbian and justgo into it.
Plus, I still wasn't sure who Iwas and went and went
into the fire.
And if anyone who doesn't know,definitely Google him.
But at the time,he was very much against
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all homosexuality.
He was out onpretty much all the broadcast
networks telling, you know,saying it's a sin, it's wrong.
And he was doing everything hecould politically as well as
from his pulpit to, um, to keepthe family intact, which is a
man and a woman and kids,that type of thing.
So that's during all of that.
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I know this is along story, but I think it's.
Fascinating.
Informative, and for alot of people.
And to understand that when Iwent there the most,
it was the most.
Beautiful time in a sense thatall I had was my job.
And then I would go home and Iwould pray, meditate,
journal again, pre-internet,pre phones.
(10:22):
And I didn't talk tothe girl that I was dating.
So I ran in completealone time, spent a lot of time
just me and God and me and myspirituality and then my job
and my office happened to beright next to the warehouse and
everything pro and con wascoming in for
about homosexuality,because people were sending
stuff around the world to Jerryto either influence or to that
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he could use and leverage.
So I would take allof that out the books.
I would read it over theweekends and at night, and I
would just absorb all of it tofigure out what, what is,
what's happeningwithin my being.
And during that time, I thinkone of my prayers, it was
happening over a span of time,but it was Easter, um,
when I was there.
And.
(11:09):
I.
It was like a voice came downand said, wow, I am going
to love you.
Whoever you love, whoever youchoose to be with.
You are a light in this worldand you just need to be you and
be who you are.
I am not going to judge you.
And he was like,and it was a he.
And he's like, I'm you have theopportunity to to be authentic
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in this world and I andI want you to be that person.
And it's not going to be easyat first, but know that you are
going to be loved.
And to even hear that,to know that, to know that I
wasn't going to be judged,it was that truth.
And to be able to sift throughall the learnings and
teachings and everything.
The fact that that was beforeme specifically, I knew that I
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could come out.
So that was the momentthat it happened.
In the midst ofworking for Jerry Falwell
at Liberty University.
Wow.
That is profound.
And and thank you for sharing.
I think one of the things aboutcloud for good, when I hear
from listeners is, as yousaid, the stories that
my guests share are often,you know, as you said, you may
(12:18):
need to you may needto Google him.
Um, but there arethings that folks are really
interested in learning.
So I really appreciate yousharing all the the personal
sort of nature of all of that.
And so much to unpack.
First of all, I'm a practicingUnitarian Universalist.
I was very lucky to grow up ina very liberal religion is
still my religion today,and there is an entire half of
(12:38):
the of the parish that's markedoff for no fragrance zone.
And I love, I love that youbrought that up because I'm
always like, I'm not sure.
Do people really havean issue with this?
And now I know yourmother did, but but in
all seriousness, um, you know,some of the things I heard
you say, you know, you werevery quickly one looking for
(12:59):
community and reallylooking to belong and
looking for acceptance.
That was very clear.
And seeking these, you know,religion and these groups that
were associated, but also itreally struck me you very early
were being told,don't be yourself.
And by the way, we're actuallygoing to almost this might be
(13:21):
too severe of a word, but we'regoing to punish you for that
because we're going to takethis leadership role away.
We we don't want you to be you.
And tell me a littlebit about that.
How what did that you know,because clearly you continued
on and said, I'mgoing to stick this out.
I'm going to I'm going tocontinue to practice my faith.
I'm going to continue to serve.
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But I thinkit's really powerful.
You also, in your mind,had the strength.
You said, I'm going tocontinue to explore.
I'm going to continue to figureit out, how that that moment
when you said that about beingremoved from the roles
really struck me.
How how did thatimpact your next steps?
Say, there's been a throughline in my life even
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to this day.
There's been a lot ofsevered belongings, and I put a
lot of energy andtime within whatever.
It's my friend group, my job,my world, wherever I
end up being.
And then it gets disrupted.
It ends in a way that mostsometimes because I choose to
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move on because I like.
I recognize that this isn't agood place for me to be.
Like, I knew, like, I have tosay one, one little thing
about Jerry Falwell.
He was a wonderful man, and Isaw the good side of him the
way that he loved, the way thathe led when he was just in the
business side,was actually quite wonderful.
And he would go through thehall and he would bear hug men
(14:44):
from behind, like, lift them upand put him down.
And he was just a fun guy andvery much in, in interactive,
very different than where howhe was even at the pulpit
or on, on camera.
So I saw that side of him.
So I respected himgreatly for that.
And, and I think I foundcommunity in every one of these
(15:05):
places and when in themidst of it.
But I also knew that I, I and Ithink my biggest lesson from
all of this over these years isthat I absorb bits and pieces
from all my experiences,and then I can become who I am
through that versus having.
I'm like, I refuse to be asheep and I refuse to be a
(15:27):
sheep at a very early age.
And I think that'sthe biggest lesson.
I think a lot ofpeople end up doing that.
They either want toget complacent, they just want
to follow a leader or whateveris being taught to them and
think that that's theonly way, the truth and
the life, or that that's thetruth in the world.
And this goes thesame for politics.
They have to either choose oneside or the other.
And I've always tried to be inthe middle, and mainly because
(15:49):
I think I've been inthe middle, you know, for most
of my life and always figureout ways to find diminishes the
divides is, I think, one of thethings that I think of
diminishing the divide andanything to figure out, a way
to connect, to relate and tofind unity is super.
Important to me, andI think it's because I've.
(16:11):
I've experienced such extreme.
Several belongings.
Yeah.
Well, and I think, you know,Exodus, Liberty, internet.
I mean, these are such as youthink of our LGBTQ history and
you think of momentsand you think of players.
Those are some that come tomind that are, you know,
(16:33):
sort of top oflist of anti-LGBTQ.
But yet I, I'm so impressedjust hearing you right now
talk about it.
But there was something aboutthat that I could take away.
There was something thatI could learn.
And and clearly from aprofessional perspective,
it seems as if maybe Libertywas a starting off point
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because it wasan entertainment, you know,
business by, by some stretch.
And, you know, then you've nowbecome an executive across
multiple differententertainment companies and
agencies and how do you thinkLiberty set you up for that?
I think in a big way, because Isaw the power and the impact of
(17:19):
what video because Jerrywas on, um, recording and was
on live broadcast as well as,uh, both of those.
And I also know that one of theways that I was able to this
was while I was part of Outfestas being on the board and why I
chose to be in entertainment,because the the you're able to
reach more hearts and minds ina way through entertainment
(17:41):
than you can through, I believeanything else, because there's
safety in watching or listeningto content in the comfort of
your own home.
Especially now.
Back then it was in thetheaters and all that.
But I would go to independentfilm theaters to see lesbian
and gay films because I didn'tsee it anywhere else, because I
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was like, I was just curiousabout I don't know how I'd
learn about it, but I did.
I figured out where it was,and I would go and watch it,
and if I hadn't seenthose things, I wouldn't have
even known it would have beenan option, because that's all
that you're exposed to.
So I one of my dreams, even inart school when I created my
first movie poster, which I dida one of my was a recreation of
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giant with James Dean,and I love James Dean.
And so I recreated that movieposter and cut paper, and I
was like, this iswhat I want to do.
I want to create movie posters.
And I didn't know whatthat was going to grow into.
And luckily when I was,you know, working at
Liberty University, it was onestep in that.
(18:47):
But I understand a lot of themarketing because I was working
on everything that, um,promoted all of the, the,
the university as well as thenetwork and his nonprofit
organizations and all that.
So I understood that partof it, too.
So when I committed to mypartner of 18 years that I
moved to Philly to bewith her, she was offered a job
(19:10):
out in California, and thatallowed us to move
to California, which is wherewe both really wanted to be.
And when I was there, I justfreelanced for many years on
the studio side that catered toall of the studios around town
until I figured out reallywhere I wanted to go, and I had
my eyes and I was like,how awesome would it be to be
(19:31):
at NBC?
And the reason why I wanted tobe there is because Will and
Grace was on the air, and Iknew that if that was on
the air, then, then they'regoing to accept me and I
want to go.
And they're also not afraid toput that content out
into the world.
So I want to go and be there sothat I can be a part of
more content, so that I cansupport it from a marketing
side and createtheir art, create their
(19:53):
marketing content,whatever it might be.
And so that's why.
I, I love it and Ijust as recently as last week,
Valerie had, I was at a,at a marketing event for one of
my clients, and, and someonehad asked me about my coming
out and, you know, made acomment of boy back then.
I also came out in the early90s and back then it must have
(20:16):
just been verydifficult without, as you
have mentioned, social mediaand, and, and one
of the things Ihad said was, yeah, and just no
representation.
None.
I come from rural Michigan andhadn't met a quote unquote gay
person until I moved to Atlantafor my first job and was in
(20:36):
Piedmont Park and sawa gay couple holding hands
and thought, wow,I guess there's there's
an opportunity here.
There's a possibility.
And I think now today, with somuch more, your your will and
grace example, certainly one ofthe shows that made an impact
on me and so many others.
And now a long wayto go, but still so much
more representation,so much better.
(20:56):
I think, for younger folkstoday to see and to to be
able to understand.
And when Ithink about Hollywood.
And when I think about theentertainment business,
one stereotype that comesto mind, you know, is the the
gays run Hollywood.
So what's your experience?
You know, you went you then didgo to, you know, NBC you've
(21:17):
been with with AmazonPrime and, and other studios
and agency work with lotsof other studios.
What is the environment likefrom your experience for an
LGBT employee withinthat space ?
What what is it like?
In the beginning, I stillwasn't sure because even though
(21:38):
I went to I got the job at NBCas a creative director,
and Jeff Greenblatt was thechairman of NBC at the time,
and I knew I learned later.
I didn't know at thatparticular moment that he was a
gay man leading an NBC,but that gave me confidence.
But I have to say, the firstcouple of years, just because
of my background and and mycoming out to my friends and my
(22:01):
family had mixed results.
I lost a lot of friends.
Um, there's a core of them thatI'm still close to to this day.
Many of my highschool friends, there's a core
group of us thatare that are still close.
Um, and my family was amazing,but because I experienced many
losses in the midst ofthat too, I was still not sure.
(22:23):
And even though I'm here,I am working at NBC.
There was more.
I was one of very few women.
Luckily there was a VPthat hired me.
That was the lead of themarketing team at the time,
and I think that's howI was able to get in.
But I wasn't because Iwas gay, it was because I think
I was a woman.
And that's how I gotthat role, because I needed
more women, because the restwere all, unfortunately,
(22:44):
white men.
I mean, I'd say unfortunately,because there was no city there.
Yeah.
And so it wasa boys club for sure.
And I think that there werea few, as you start to know,
there's a few gay men for sure.
There's a there were a lot moregay men than there were
lesbians or trans or any,any other type of mix of people.
And so even when my partner andI had our commitment ceremony,
(23:08):
we didn't tell anybody.
And and this was like pre whenthe marriage equality and all
that started happening.
Yeah.
And so we went andgot married, had a big ceremony.
And when we came back to theoffice or when I came back to
the office, there was no toast.
Whereas other colleagues wouldget a toast.
And I was feeling really sad.
So I still wasn't talking aboutwhat I was doing
(23:30):
on the weekends.
But then out in NBCu started toget more visibility, and the
folks who were guiding that andbringing that to the light,
I started being a part of thatand that transformed my life.
I mean, it really did that.
ERG being a part of that,I think within those first
couple of years, which wasaround 2015, is when I started
(23:53):
out in NBCu transformed.
So I started volunteeringfor everything, started doing
the pride festivals, and if youeven go through my Facebook
during that time, you see thejoy and my face
on everybody's face.
It was just themost wonderful, beautiful time
of celebration and being out.
And I'm like, I can be out.
(24:14):
I can actually bring my fullself to work and this is going
to help me do myjob better, which it did.
And the fact that I didn't haveto worry about watching my P's
and Q's and my, you know,what I did on the weekend or
what all the other stuff.
And I could just flow andbe a part of the conversation
like everybody else.
(24:35):
You know, I think being in thecloset for so long definitely
gave me the gift of being ableto read a room and sense when
somebody isn't being authenticor lying or being one way
versus another, or they'refaking it to make it or know
all the different other thingsthat a lot of people do
to get somewhere.
But I also have empathyin that, you know, it makes me
(24:56):
more curious and get to knowthem a little bit more versus
judging them in that,because there's a reason why
they're choosing to be there.
And so for me, um, being ableto have that freedom gave me
more of the freedom tobe completely out.
And then when by the time I wasthere ten years and again,
those, those moments and when Ico-led out and and BCU was
(25:18):
being because there was we'restill having challenges
getting female, uh,females involved, lesbians or
allies or anybody to getinvolved other than
the gay guys.
And, uh, so that was wonderful.
And I think it really worked.
We were able toget a lot more visibility.
That's amazing.
Well, and and then I know youcontinued that work at Amazon
as well with their ERG and somany other organizations.
(25:42):
And so a question I have foryou is so thinking about, uh,
maybe a new to workforceemployee or someone who maybe
is even tenured and they'rejust thinking of, I'd like to
show up more authentically.
I'd like to be myself.
I may even consider coming outin the workplace, you know,
with with your experience.
(26:03):
Both starting in college andand through all
of these organizations.
What advice might you give tosomeone as they're thinking
about that?
What what advice would youwould you give them to consider?
I think that seeking acommunity or a job where you
can be your authentic selfis very important.
(26:25):
And if you have the opportunityand I think in this day
and age, we do like I know theinternet is there's a lot of
negativity around it, but ohmy gosh, y'all, you have
everything at your fingertipsto learn and be whomever you
want to be, and you don't haveto wait for it to come to you
(26:46):
because it's there.
And to leverage that for thegood versus for all the
negative and just scrollingendlessly on social media and,
you know, orcreate your own content,
create your own community.
If you feel like you can't movesomewhere to go, be a part
of that, or then create it.
Because a couple things thatI'm seeing right now, which I
(27:07):
think is really amazing, um,there's a group called vibrant
out here in California.
It's just started at theend of last year and it's
we are vibrant.
Org.
They are a creative marketingand entertainment, uh,
industry group thatis all LGBTQ.
(27:27):
And what they're doing isthey're inviting all the
creative agencies, all thestudios coming together and one
so a lot of agencies,creative agencies don't have an
ERG or they don't havethat group, or they're so small
that these folks don'thave a place to connect.
And because a lot of the poweris in the companies right now
versus the creatives because ofall the AI and everything
(27:49):
that's going on, they are nowbringing everybody together so
they don't careabout the competition.
They're like, let's all cometogether in unity and in
community and support oneanother with panels and social
AI social activities, and we'reall creatives in this industry.
Let's figure out the best wayto support one another.
(28:09):
And the fact theyjust started that out from
scratch is amazing.
So that's what I would sayis like, if you're not
finding it, make it.
And I mean that'sthe biggest thing.
And then I also seek if youdon't feel like you have the
confidence yet or the tools orthe understanding or you're
not really, really sure howto do it.
I mean, AI is definitely goingto be your friend and
going and asking.
(28:30):
That's right.
But also reaching out to folks.
There's so many people whowould be grateful.
And I am like anyone whoreaches out to me,
I'm helpful, uh, excited totalk to them about whatever it
is that I could do to help themcreate something in
their space, but toif you need to move.
You know, Amazon was amazing.
You know, they were fromday one, I was able to be out
(28:52):
and there was no question itwasn't even a thought.
And to be to be honest, it wasbecause of transparent is why I
went to Amazon and I was ableto work on that series for all
the all the seasons,including the movie.
And then I knew I had mypurpose because I was working
on content that was, again,sharing more visibility for
people around the world sobillions of eyeballs can get on
(29:15):
it versus it being, um,just being in small.
But I think starting small andthen allowing that to find that
community there to get that,um, feeling of, uh, that you
feel empowered, then I thinkyou're going to be able to do
way more in life and in yourjob so that you can focus on
your job and dothe best that you can.
(29:37):
I it's such greatadvice, Valerie.
I think, as you said, um,talking about we are vibrant.
I what a great example.
I it even makes me think abouta year ago I thought,
you know, I'd love to tellstories of LGBT folks in the
workplace who have navigatedthis complicated workplace.
(30:00):
And I thought, well,someone's telling those stories.
And in fact, other than maybesome Pride Month activities
where companies do do somepromotion of their their
diverse workforce, there reallywasn't a place which that was
how Klout for good started.
And I love sounds likewe are vibrant.
It's this we'rewe found this gap,
we found this opportunity.
(30:21):
And I think it'sa really important.
Recommendation and then andsomething to think about is I
often sit in a place and go,well, I'm sure there's someone
already doing this.
I'm sure this already exists.
And I think your your advice ofcreate it, you know, seek it.
And if itisn't there, create it.
And I think you are exactlyright with also we have the
(30:44):
resources where we have toolsthat we can use.
We have channelswe can leverage.
And, you know,really consistently across all
of my conversations with myguest is, you know, seek your
community and seeking yourcommunity can take some effort.
And and I thinkthat's great advice.
And Valerie, one questionfor you, with this impressive
(31:07):
career and such a it feels liketo me as I listen to
your your stories.
And yourexperiences really navigating.
Whether you see them aschallenges or not,
but navigating situations thathave been learning moments and
being able to move on to thenext and being able to grow and
(31:29):
thrive and be able to say,I want to work now you're in
a position, I want to workthis way, and this is what I'd
like to do.
Where have you been most proud?
You know, clout for good is iswhen you're out, you have this
clout and you can do good.
Tell us a little bit aboutmaybe a few examples of where
you're most proud of the workyou've been able to now do
(31:51):
after you've been able to comeout and and where you've been
able to make an impact that,that you're proud of.
Yeah, I think the AI being atAmazon was wonderful because I
was able to work on I mean,luckily, I had the option to be
able to choose what I worked on.
And I would say out of the 80plus shows and films that I
(32:11):
worked on in series andspecials and all of them.
1%.
Wasn't something I wantedto work on.
The the rest, the 99.
The rest of it I there was somesort of purposeful,
wonderful story that was beingput out into the world.
A lot of them had someLGBTQ content, but there's
(32:32):
other things that I'mfascinated about in the world,
and I think anything thatcreates an aha moment for
anybody to think differentlyis really powerful.
And anything to be able todive deeper, to be a better
person in this world,anything that's going to bring
good into the world iswhat I like to get behind.
So working on transparent andwith Joey Soloway and their
(32:56):
whole team and cast and crew,that was just what a
gift that was.
And that series was phenomenal.
Fleabag with, you know,Phoebe Waller-Bridge and and
that was incredible toto work on.
And I got to work on A VeryEnglish Scandal with Hugh Grant
was another one.
It was greatcatastrophe was awesome.
(33:18):
Good omens if youall haven't watched Good Omens,
it is just fabulous.
It's just so good.
And I think, you know,maybe there's not like Good
Omens isn't full out gay,but it is so diverse the way
Neil Gaimanwrites those characters.
And then if you get throughseason two, you see the full
story and there's going to be aseason three, it's amazing.
And then also to support,like uncle Frank and Red,
(33:40):
white and Royal Blueand League of Your Own.
And there's so many others thatthat were a part of
that time there.
And I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of being able to, um,I don't have anything to do
with the creation ofthe series or the films.
I help market them,I help brand them.
I help figure out what that 360marketing campaign is going
(34:00):
to be, so that eyeballs willfind it, that it will pop out
and stand out from all of theother stuff that's out there
and attract the right audiences.
And because I love them, I amgoing to be able to tap into
those audience much quicker andbe able to to find, to to brand
it and get it tothat look and feel for them.
And that is wonderful.
And I, I truly love it.
(34:23):
I truly love it.
And to figure out what I'mgoing to do next, because I
just left Amazon, uh, in March.
So I have to figure out whereI'm going to go and what I'm
going to do next.
And I'm excited about whatthose opportunities and what
it looks like.
But, um, I hopefully I got todo more of that because I think
I'm pretty good at it.
That's awesome.
I, I've been impactedby those things.
(34:44):
You've worked on many of those,those shows and others.
I know I've, I've been a fan ofand have watched transparent
and the recently TheNew League of Their Own,
all really amazing shows.
Um, you mentioned weare vibrant, but one of the
other questions that I askedguests and so many great things
have come from this question,which is what resources,
(35:07):
you know, especially becauseyou've worked with so many
organizations and youvolunteered so much out
in the community.
Aside from we are vibrant,are there any other
organizations or resources thatyou might recommend to
listeners of Klout for good?
Yeah, I mean, I think.
One of the.
I'm one of the best things,I think that helped me find
(35:29):
community and also be better inthe world and understand things
is volunteering and like I atone point or another,
or attending the galas,figuring out ways to be a part
of the steering committees forthe events, like I was a part
of the Gay and Lesbian Centerand An Evening with women for
quite a few years.
And when we were, we raisedquite a lot of money for
(35:50):
the community there.
I've done stuff with Glad andTrevor Project and Lambda Legal
and glisten all the pridefestivals in Los Angeles.
There's a bunch of them now.
There was only one therefor a while.
Pound Point Foundation,Equality California, you know,
all of those.
And I remember doing the no.
One hate, you know, any timethere was an opportunity to be
(36:10):
able to show up.
I think that'sthe biggest thing.
Show up, attend, volunteer whenyou can, get on committee
committees or be a part of itin that way, if you can't give
the money and if you cangive money, please do.
I mean, I think that they whatthey're doing, the people who
are living and breathe in thatand that's their full time job
that's really impactful.
(36:31):
And the years that I was atOutfest to that was magical,
was like going to summer campevery summer and being a part
of that community for almost20 something, 25 years.
That's what I was lookingforward to, that in July for
the film festival and knowingand supporting all of the
filmmakers who were bringingtheir stories into the world.
And I think that those, uh,being a part of that is helpful.
(36:55):
But also, again, the internet,I think that's number one,
exploring, being curious,figuring out what is of
interest to you and, um,tapping into those places and
getting to know folks and thatand try not to stay within your
own little comfort zone andreally break out, because I
think that allows you to growmore and also get to
(37:15):
know more people.
I love, you know,great organizations.
And a takeaway, Valerie, that Ijust heard from you that
I love, many of my guests havegiven an organization or,
you know, talked about somesome place that you can get
information or insights.
But I love what you just said,which is just be a part of it.
Go volunteer, go show up,go be be present.
(37:37):
And I you know, Idid that throughout my, um,
early stages, whether itwas in LGBT related
sports or otherwise.
And I think it's such goodadvice because sometimes I
think these big events canbe really intimidating.
I think folks are, well,that's not for me, or I don't
have $5,000 for aticket or whatever it is.
And I think what youjust said is such great advice,
(37:59):
because there are ways toparticipate and volunteer and
get to know folks.
And and I too, that has beenand by the way, that's how
we met, you know, throughthrough these organizations.
And I think it's such a greatway there's there's a place
for everyone,these organizations and these,
these outlets really need,need help.
So I think that's that'sreally great advice.
So thanks for that.
And I'd love to know.
(38:21):
And I know the listeners wouldlove to know one final question.
So we want to know who'sinspired you along the way.
So a lot of these experiencesyou've shared and I think, uh,
your path has justbeen it's fascinating.
I didn't know a lot of thedetails you shared today,
so thank you for that.
But if you imagine you'rehosting a Klout for Good
(38:41):
Dinner party, what few queericons that have inspired you or
made an impact or that you lookup to might you want to have at
the table and tell us a littlebit about why you'd invite them
and why you'd want them there.
Can I disrupt this question?
Of course, of course.
Okay, so first off, my dreamand I and I've attended a
(39:06):
couple of these and they'repretty magical is I love those
long farm tables in the middleof like a vineyard or like,
so you're going to have a farmto table meal and you got all
the the firefly lightsgoing on everywhere.
You just create this wonderfulatmosphere so you can have more
than just three people join youat a dinner party.
So I like see the.
(39:28):
Creative director, the creativedirector at work, I like it,
I like it.
Yeah.
So I want to have abigger group, and I would love
to bring a collection of peopletogether from different
walks of life.
Not all queer.
I would like, you know,straight allies, maybe not
so straight allies.
I mean, if we can bring JerryFalwell back to see where
(39:50):
we are, I mean, I think hewould be a great guest.
But I think also bringingpeople together that will
deepen the connections anddiminish the divides and take
that opportunity knowing thatthis is a safe place,
magical place, creating that,uh, comfort that's there.
So everyone knows that they'refree to talk about whatever
they need to talk about.
But it's not force, but it'salso simply getting to know one
(40:13):
each other and finding thesimilarities and one another
versus the differences.
And I think that's important.
So I'm going to I'mgoing to give you my list.
My dream list, right?
I love it.
I love thinking about thisa little bit.
Good.
And there's a story behindevery one of them.
The last couple, couple ofthese I've met throughout my
life or worked with themat one point or another,
(40:33):
and then others.
I would love to work with them.
So we'll see ifpeople can guess who's who.
So number one is Amy Grant.
Number two is TimCook from Apple.
Mhm.
Uh, Jodie Foster Kara swishergotta have Dax Shepard and
Monica Padman from ArmchairExpert and then love to have
Kristen Bell join becausethat's going to bring another
(40:55):
whole dynamic to it.
Uh, Joey Soloway,Margaret Cho, Brené Brown,
which has been an impactfullistening to herself over
the years, Oprah,Shonda Rhimes, Lee Daniels,
Anderson Cooper, Janet Mock,Brandi Carlile,
(41:15):
and Andrew Scott.
I love it.
What a table and Ilove your premise.
I love your premise of,you know, those that that are a
part of the community,those that are allies,
those that aren't really I mean,I think right now it's
such an important time for that.
I mean, we have a reallycontentious fall ahead of us
with our political environment,and I love it.
(41:39):
And Andrew Scott, I justwatched the first episode of
Ripley last night.
So watching a favorite movie ofmine being turned into
that series, which is fantastic.
Well, I, I'd love to join.
That sounds amazing.
And I love the setting.
I've.
I too have been toone of those before and it's
it's really fantastic.
Well, Valerie, thank you somuch for your time today.
This is amazing.
You've been so generous withsharing all of your personal
(42:01):
stories and experiences.
I know that people are going toget a lot out of the
episode today, so thank you somuch for joining me.
Oh you're welcome.
It's my pleasure.
And I and Ido hope folks can resonate.
And it brings confidence topeople who feel like they don't
have it and they hear it.
So I do hope that.
I love it.
Well.
And to my listeners, thanks somuch for joining us today.
(42:22):
Please tune in every otherWednesday for a new episode of
clout for good.
Follow us on social.
Visit our website to subscribeto the newsletter, and I hope
this episode motivates you touse your clout for good to make
a difference in your workplace.
Thanks again.
So I identify as a humanbeing first, to be honest and
all of and then sheher we have to, you know,
go into those details.
Um, and I'm a lesbian and proudof saying that now took a long
time to get there, but, um,that's where I am today.
Hello everyone, and welcome forgood is a bi weekly podcast
(00:20):
that showcases personal andpowerful conversations with
prominent LGBTQ+ executives whoare out in the workplace.
The conversations are meant tocreate a supportive community
and inspire LGBTQ+ people,their employers, and allies to
build equity and inclusionin the workplace.
Today, I'm honored towelcome Valerie Madden.
(00:42):
Valerie is aseasoned creative director and
community activist.
She's worked with brands suchas NBC, Amazon, MGM Studios,
Amazon Prime, and several otheragencies and companies that
you'll hear about today.
She's contributed to themarketing of over 300 TV series
and films, with titlesincluding Fleabag, transparent,
(01:03):
and Good Omens, just toname a few.
Valerie served on the board ofdirectors for Outfest, the Los
Angeles LGBTQ Film festival,and has volunteered with
countlessother LGBTQ organizations.
Professionally, she's held DNIleadership roles with out at
NBCu and Glamazon, whichis the LGBTQ employee resource
(01:25):
group at Amazon.
Val, thanks so much forjoining me today.
Oh, it's such a pleasureto be here.
I've been enjoyingyour podcast, so I've been
listening to it.
Thank you so much.
Well, I'm so glad.
I'm so glad you're here I can'twait I, I having known you for
a while, I know youhave a really interesting and
robust background, so I knowyou've got a lot of
things to share.
So let's let's jump in.
(01:45):
So the first thing I always askguests is to tell us just a
little bit about howdo you identify.
And I know this is a loaded andcan be a complicated question,
but maybe tell usa little bit about coming
out professionally.
And I certainly know that's notalways a one and done situation.
So.
Let us know a little bit abouthow you identify and how you
(02:08):
have come out over the years.
Sure.
So I identify as a humanbeing first, to be honest.
And all of and then sheher we have to, you know,
go into those details.
Um, and I'm a lesbian and proudof saying that now took a long
time to get there.
But, um, that's whereI am today.
(02:28):
And and then for coming out.
That is a wonderful story,and probably I'm going to try
to hone it in andkeep it focused more on the
professional side for this one,but that could be
a whole nother.
But people have told me I canmake a movie out of my story,
so let's see how farwe get into it today.
But great.
Basically, I came out in mymid 20s, so that was like in
(02:50):
the 1995 area erof time, and this was
before the internet.
So I'm going to putthat context out.
It was just starting tocome out, but we didn't have
access to it.
Um, and I was born and raisedfirst in Chicago, first 12
years of my life.
And then we moved toNorth Carolina, which is the
Bible Belt, and was there tillmy early 20s and loved being
(03:15):
in North Carolina.
And but my circle groups wereall around church, uh, FCA,
Fellowship ofChristian Athletes, um,
Bible studies, uh,that type of thing.
That was my life, my worldoutside of my friends and
my neighborhood, though.
That's what I did all the time.
So that's all I knew.
And my parents weren'tnecessarily churchgoers.
(03:37):
As a matter of fact, when Iturned 16, my parents told me,
hey, if you want to goto church, you have
your license, you can go.
We're not going to go as often.
And meaning my mom was had somecrazy allergies, so she
couldn't go because there's somuch perfume in the churches,
she couldn't do it.
So I still chose I loved it,I loved every bit of it.
But we were taught not to.
(04:01):
Well, I shouldn't say not.
We were taught thathomosexuality was wrong from a
very young age and andor it wasn't even discussed.
I didn't even know itwas an option.
And throughout high school andjunior high, I mean mostly
high school, I dated alittle bit, but there wasn't a
longing for me to to date.
I wasn't that wasn't oneof my focus.
But it was challenging.
(04:22):
And I and I look back, yes,I had crushes on girls, but I
didn't know what that meant.
I just thought it wasfriendship and went through
that whole journey.
Went to college, I went to artschool and I went to East
Carolina University, which iswas known at the time as the
Party School of North Carolina.
But it was also art school, too.
(04:42):
So a little bit of both,and it was a full education.
And while being there,I actually did not drink,
I didn't smoke, I didn't doanything that was a part of the
party aspect in that, as amatter of fact, I would.
I was so involved in the churchthat I joined InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship navigators,any type
of prayer church organizationsas a part of ECU.
(05:04):
And that, again, is where Ibuilt my friend groups.
And that combined with where Iwas in art school.
So again, no understanding thatI could be out.
And this was in the late80s and, and had no idea the
whole Aids crisis was happening.
Not clueless of anyof that stuff.
I didn't learn about thatso many, many years ago.
(05:25):
Which, uh, shows you howprotected I was in that space.
Mhm.
So in the midst of all that, I,I, uh, the four years of art
school were wonderful.
And I actually had my firstfell in love with a woman
toward the latter half,I think my junior year.
And it blew my mind.
(05:46):
I'm like, what am Igoing to do with this?
You know, youwe had these incredible
feelings and experiences.
But I wasin leadership for InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship.
I was, uh, leading Biblestudies was in all it was.
And I didn't know whatto do with all of that.
So it was intense.
(06:07):
It was both beautiful andchallenging and, um, difficult.
And the two of usexplored one another.
But at the same time,we're very much in the closet.
And because we didn't knowhow to, to manage that.
So the leadership at the time,we told a few folks and they
pretty much counseled us to notbe together, the counselors.
(06:29):
And they took meout of my leadership roles.
And so slowly that was tryingto be, uh, working through and
counseling throughthe whole process.
And after that, uh, two years,I think we dated each other or
were around each other, but wealso dated guys because but the
luckily when we weredating guys, we didn't have to
(06:49):
worry about it because we don'thave sex before marriage, so I
didn't have to worryabout that side of it.
It was more innocent type of.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, um, and met somany beautiful people.
But it was really hard.
And so after graduating, um,she went and got married to
a man, had kids, family.
She's very happy.
(07:09):
And we broke up andI left and I joined.
I don't know if y'all know this,but it's Exodus International.
So because I was like, I don'twant to be gay if this is
my struggle, I was taughtthat it's wrong.
I can't be a part of this.
So I did whatever I could tonot be in that space.
And I went right to it.
(07:30):
And.
And that in itselfwas eye opening.
And I was dating a beautifulman at the time.
We were havinga great relationship.
He was everything you couldever want in a relationship,
and he was supportive.
He knew what I wasstruggling with, so it was very
open and honest.
And we, uh,were talking through it.
(07:51):
And when I was in Exodus,I actually met the second girl
who I got a crush on, and Istarted having feelings for her.
So in that I'm like, I can't bewith anybody until I figure
this stuff out becauseit's not fair to them.
It's not fair to myself.
And so I felt like I hadto be fully on my own and, um,
meet with people, date withpeople a little bit.
(08:11):
And then whenI'm in the workplace,
obviously there's nothing tocome out to because I didn't
know who I was.
So it wasn't like, you know,on the weekends if I was
doing anything, you know,I didn't have to worry about
talking about it.
And I was working.
I started working at a printerright out of school and did a
little bit of that, but I endedup getting an offer to go and
(08:33):
work at Liberty University andLiberty Broadcast Network.
And I don't know how many ofyour audience currently know
who is at the helm ofall that, but it's Jerry
Falwell and a friend of minewho I went to art school with
was the creative director,and he knew also what I was
struggling with, and he wassuch a beautiful soul.
He still is.
And he said, well,come and work here.
(08:55):
We don't have to tell Jerry.
We don't have to tell anybody.
Just you have a great job.
You'll be out of everythingelse that you're familiar with.
But you can come hereand, um, do what you do.
Great.
Which is an art director and,um, and figure out who you want
to be and what you want to do.
So that's what I did.
I went and worked for him fornine months, and I had just
(09:18):
started dating another girlbefore that, but it was
I again, I didn't want to diveinto that relationship, be the
U-Haul lesbian and justgo into it.
Plus, I still wasn't sure who Iwas and went and went
into the fire.
And if anyone who doesn't know,definitely Google him.
But at the time,he was very much against
(09:39):
all homosexuality.
He was out onpretty much all the broadcast
networks telling, you know,saying it's a sin, it's wrong.
And he was doing everything hecould politically as well as
from his pulpit to, um, to keepthe family intact, which is a
man and a woman and kids,that type of thing.
So that's during all of that.
(10:00):
I know this is along story, but I think it's.
Fascinating.
Informative, and for alot of people.
And to understand that when Iwent there the most,
it was the most.
Beautiful time in a sense thatall I had was my job.
And then I would go home and Iwould pray, meditate,
journal again, pre-internet,pre phones.
(10:22):
And I didn't talk tothe girl that I was dating.
So I ran in completealone time, spent a lot of time
just me and God and me and myspirituality and then my job
and my office happened to beright next to the warehouse and
everything pro and con wascoming in for
about homosexuality,because people were sending
stuff around the world to Jerryto either influence or to that
(10:47):
he could use and leverage.
So I would take allof that out the books.
I would read it over theweekends and at night, and I
would just absorb all of it tofigure out what, what is,
what's happeningwithin my being.
And during that time, I thinkone of my prayers, it was
happening over a span of time,but it was Easter, um,
when I was there.
And.
(11:09):
I.
It was like a voice came downand said, wow, I am going
to love you.
Whoever you love, whoever youchoose to be with.
You are a light in this worldand you just need to be you and
be who you are.
I am not going to judge you.
And he was like,and it was a he.
And he's like, I'm you have theopportunity to to be authentic
(11:33):
in this world and I andI want you to be that person.
And it's not going to be easyat first, but know that you are
going to be loved.
And to even hear that,to know that, to know that I
wasn't going to be judged,it was that truth.
And to be able to sift throughall the learnings and
teachings and everything.
The fact that that was beforeme specifically, I knew that I
(11:54):
could come out.
So that was the momentthat it happened.
In the midst ofworking for Jerry Falwell
at Liberty University.
Wow.
That is profound.
And and thank you for sharing.
I think one of the things aboutcloud for good, when I hear
from listeners is, as yousaid, the stories that
my guests share are often,you know, as you said, you may
(12:18):
need to you may needto Google him.
Um, but there arethings that folks are really
interested in learning.
So I really appreciate yousharing all the the personal
sort of nature of all of that.
And so much to unpack.
First of all, I'm a practicingUnitarian Universalist.
I was very lucky to grow up ina very liberal religion is
still my religion today,and there is an entire half of
(12:38):
the of the parish that's markedoff for no fragrance zone.
And I love, I love that youbrought that up because I'm
always like, I'm not sure.
Do people really havean issue with this?
And now I know yourmother did, but but in
all seriousness, um, you know,some of the things I heard
you say, you know, you werevery quickly one looking for
(12:59):
community and reallylooking to belong and
looking for acceptance.
That was very clear.
And seeking these, you know,religion and these groups that
were associated, but also itreally struck me you very early
were being told,don't be yourself.
And by the way, we're actuallygoing to almost this might be
(13:21):
too severe of a word, but we'regoing to punish you for that
because we're going to takethis leadership role away.
We we don't want you to be you.
And tell me a littlebit about that.
How what did that you know,because clearly you continued
on and said, I'mgoing to stick this out.
I'm going to I'm going tocontinue to practice my faith.
I'm going to continue to serve.
(13:41):
But I thinkit's really powerful.
You also, in your mind,had the strength.
You said, I'm going tocontinue to explore.
I'm going to continue to figureit out, how that that moment
when you said that about beingremoved from the roles
really struck me.
How how did thatimpact your next steps?
Say, there's been a throughline in my life even
(14:02):
to this day.
There's been a lot ofsevered belongings, and I put a
lot of energy andtime within whatever.
It's my friend group, my job,my world, wherever I
end up being.
And then it gets disrupted.
It ends in a way that mostsometimes because I choose to
(14:22):
move on because I like.
I recognize that this isn't agood place for me to be.
Like, I knew, like, I have tosay one, one little thing
about Jerry Falwell.
He was a wonderful man, and Isaw the good side of him the
way that he loved, the way thathe led when he was just in the
business side,was actually quite wonderful.
And he would go through thehall and he would bear hug men
(14:44):
from behind, like, lift them upand put him down.
And he was just a fun guy andvery much in, in interactive,
very different than where howhe was even at the pulpit
or on, on camera.
So I saw that side of him.
So I respected himgreatly for that.
And, and I think I foundcommunity in every one of these
(15:05):
places and when in themidst of it.
But I also knew that I, I and Ithink my biggest lesson from
all of this over these years isthat I absorb bits and pieces
from all my experiences,and then I can become who I am
through that versus having.
I'm like, I refuse to be asheep and I refuse to be a
(15:27):
sheep at a very early age.
And I think that'sthe biggest lesson.
I think a lot ofpeople end up doing that.
They either want toget complacent, they just want
to follow a leader or whateveris being taught to them and
think that that's theonly way, the truth and
the life, or that that's thetruth in the world.
And this goes thesame for politics.
They have to either choose oneside or the other.
And I've always tried to be inthe middle, and mainly because
(15:49):
I think I've been inthe middle, you know, for most
of my life and always figureout ways to find diminishes the
divides is, I think, one of thethings that I think of
diminishing the divide andanything to figure out, a way
to connect, to relate and tofind unity is super.
Important to me, andI think it's because I've.
(16:11):
I've experienced such extreme.
Several belongings.
Yeah.
Well, and I think, you know,Exodus, Liberty, internet.
I mean, these are such as youthink of our LGBTQ history and
you think of momentsand you think of players.
Those are some that come tomind that are, you know,
(16:33):
sort of top oflist of anti-LGBTQ.
But yet I, I'm so impressedjust hearing you right now
talk about it.
But there was something aboutthat that I could take away.
There was something thatI could learn.
And and clearly from aprofessional perspective,
it seems as if maybe Libertywas a starting off point
(16:53):
because it wasan entertainment, you know,
business by, by some stretch.
And, you know, then you've nowbecome an executive across
multiple differententertainment companies and
agencies and how do you thinkLiberty set you up for that?
I think in a big way, because Isaw the power and the impact of
(17:19):
what video because Jerrywas on, um, recording and was
on live broadcast as well as,uh, both of those.
And I also know that one of theways that I was able to this
was while I was part of Outfestas being on the board and why I
chose to be in entertainment,because the the you're able to
reach more hearts and minds ina way through entertainment
(17:41):
than you can through, I believeanything else, because there's
safety in watching or listeningto content in the comfort of
your own home.
Especially now.
Back then it was in thetheaters and all that.
But I would go to independentfilm theaters to see lesbian
and gay films because I didn'tsee it anywhere else, because I
(18:03):
was like, I was just curiousabout I don't know how I'd
learn about it, but I did.
I figured out where it was,and I would go and watch it,
and if I hadn't seenthose things, I wouldn't have
even known it would have beenan option, because that's all
that you're exposed to.
So I one of my dreams, even inart school when I created my
first movie poster, which I dida one of my was a recreation of
(18:26):
giant with James Dean,and I love James Dean.
And so I recreated that movieposter and cut paper, and I
was like, this iswhat I want to do.
I want to create movie posters.
And I didn't know whatthat was going to grow into.
And luckily when I was,you know, working at
Liberty University, it was onestep in that.
(18:47):
But I understand a lot of themarketing because I was working
on everything that, um,promoted all of the, the,
the university as well as thenetwork and his nonprofit
organizations and all that.
So I understood that partof it, too.
So when I committed to mypartner of 18 years that I
moved to Philly to bewith her, she was offered a job
(19:10):
out in California, and thatallowed us to move
to California, which is wherewe both really wanted to be.
And when I was there, I justfreelanced for many years on
the studio side that catered toall of the studios around town
until I figured out reallywhere I wanted to go, and I had
my eyes and I was like,how awesome would it be to be
(19:31):
at NBC?
And the reason why I wanted tobe there is because Will and
Grace was on the air, and Iknew that if that was on
the air, then, then they'regoing to accept me and I
want to go.
And they're also not afraid toput that content out
into the world.
So I want to go and be there sothat I can be a part of
more content, so that I cansupport it from a marketing
side and createtheir art, create their
(19:53):
marketing content,whatever it might be.
And so that's why.
I, I love it and Ijust as recently as last week,
Valerie had, I was at a,at a marketing event for one of
my clients, and, and someonehad asked me about my coming
out and, you know, made acomment of boy back then.
I also came out in the early90s and back then it must have
(20:16):
just been verydifficult without, as you
have mentioned, social mediaand, and, and one
of the things Ihad said was, yeah, and just no
representation.
None.
I come from rural Michigan andhadn't met a quote unquote gay
person until I moved to Atlantafor my first job and was in
(20:36):
Piedmont Park and sawa gay couple holding hands
and thought, wow,I guess there's there's
an opportunity here.
There's a possibility.
And I think now today, with somuch more, your your will and
grace example, certainly one ofthe shows that made an impact
on me and so many others.
And now a long wayto go, but still so much
more representation,so much better.
(20:56):
I think, for younger folkstoday to see and to to be
able to understand.
And when Ithink about Hollywood.
And when I think about theentertainment business,
one stereotype that comesto mind, you know, is the the
gays run Hollywood.
So what's your experience?
You know, you went you then didgo to, you know, NBC you've
(21:17):
been with with AmazonPrime and, and other studios
and agency work with lotsof other studios.
What is the environment likefrom your experience for an
LGBT employee withinthat space ?
What what is it like?
In the beginning, I stillwasn't sure because even though
(21:38):
I went to I got the job at NBCas a creative director,
and Jeff Greenblatt was thechairman of NBC at the time,
and I knew I learned later.
I didn't know at thatparticular moment that he was a
gay man leading an NBC,but that gave me confidence.
But I have to say, the firstcouple of years, just because
of my background and and mycoming out to my friends and my
(22:01):
family had mixed results.
I lost a lot of friends.
Um, there's a core of them thatI'm still close to to this day.
Many of my highschool friends, there's a core
group of us thatare that are still close.
Um, and my family was amazing,but because I experienced many
losses in the midst ofthat too, I was still not sure.
(22:23):
And even though I'm here,I am working at NBC.
There was more.
I was one of very few women.
Luckily there was a VPthat hired me.
That was the lead of themarketing team at the time,
and I think that's howI was able to get in.
But I wasn't because Iwas gay, it was because I think
I was a woman.
And that's how I gotthat role, because I needed
more women, because the restwere all, unfortunately,
(22:44):
white men.
I mean, I'd say unfortunately,because there was no city there.
Yeah.
And so it wasa boys club for sure.
And I think that there werea few, as you start to know,
there's a few gay men for sure.
There's a there were a lot moregay men than there were
lesbians or trans or any,any other type of mix of people.
And so even when my partner andI had our commitment ceremony,
(23:08):
we didn't tell anybody.
And and this was like pre whenthe marriage equality and all
that started happening.
Yeah.
And so we went andgot married, had a big ceremony.
And when we came back to theoffice or when I came back to
the office, there was no toast.
Whereas other colleagues wouldget a toast.
And I was feeling really sad.
So I still wasn't talking aboutwhat I was doing
(23:30):
on the weekends.
But then out in NBCu started toget more visibility, and the
folks who were guiding that andbringing that to the light,
I started being a part of thatand that transformed my life.
I mean, it really did that.
ERG being a part of that,I think within those first
couple of years, which wasaround 2015, is when I started
(23:53):
out in NBCu transformed.
So I started volunteeringfor everything, started doing
the pride festivals, and if youeven go through my Facebook
during that time, you see thejoy and my face
on everybody's face.
It was just themost wonderful, beautiful time
of celebration and being out.
And I'm like, I can be out.
(24:14):
I can actually bring my fullself to work and this is going
to help me do myjob better, which it did.
And the fact that I didn't haveto worry about watching my P's
and Q's and my, you know,what I did on the weekend or
what all the other stuff.
And I could just flow andbe a part of the conversation
like everybody else.
(24:35):
You know, I think being in thecloset for so long definitely
gave me the gift of being ableto read a room and sense when
somebody isn't being authenticor lying or being one way
versus another, or they'refaking it to make it or know
all the different other thingsthat a lot of people do
to get somewhere.
But I also have empathyin that, you know, it makes me
(24:56):
more curious and get to knowthem a little bit more versus
judging them in that,because there's a reason why
they're choosing to be there.
And so for me, um, being ableto have that freedom gave me
more of the freedom tobe completely out.
And then when by the time I wasthere ten years and again,
those, those moments and when Ico-led out and and BCU was
(25:18):
being because there was we'restill having challenges
getting female, uh,females involved, lesbians or
allies or anybody to getinvolved other than
the gay guys.
And, uh, so that was wonderful.
And I think it really worked.
We were able toget a lot more visibility.
That's amazing.
Well, and and then I know youcontinued that work at Amazon
as well with their ERG and somany other organizations.
(25:42):
And so a question I have foryou is so thinking about, uh,
maybe a new to workforceemployee or someone who maybe
is even tenured and they'rejust thinking of, I'd like to
show up more authentically.
I'd like to be myself.
I may even consider coming outin the workplace, you know,
with with your experience.
(26:03):
Both starting in college andand through all
of these organizations.
What advice might you give tosomeone as they're thinking
about that?
What what advice would youwould you give them to consider?
I think that seeking acommunity or a job where you
can be your authentic selfis very important.
(26:25):
And if you have the opportunityand I think in this day
and age, we do like I know theinternet is there's a lot of
negativity around it, but ohmy gosh, y'all, you have
everything at your fingertipsto learn and be whomever you
want to be, and you don't haveto wait for it to come to you
(26:46):
because it's there.
And to leverage that for thegood versus for all the
negative and just scrollingendlessly on social media and,
you know, orcreate your own content,
create your own community.
If you feel like you can't movesomewhere to go, be a part
of that, or then create it.
Because a couple things thatI'm seeing right now, which I
(27:07):
think is really amazing, um,there's a group called vibrant
out here in California.
It's just started at theend of last year and it's
we are vibrant.
Org.
They are a creative marketingand entertainment, uh,
industry group thatis all LGBTQ.
(27:27):
And what they're doing isthey're inviting all the
creative agencies, all thestudios coming together and one
so a lot of agencies,creative agencies don't have an
ERG or they don't havethat group, or they're so small
that these folks don'thave a place to connect.
And because a lot of the poweris in the companies right now
versus the creatives because ofall the AI and everything
(27:49):
that's going on, they are nowbringing everybody together so
they don't careabout the competition.
They're like, let's all cometogether in unity and in
community and support oneanother with panels and social
AI social activities, and we'reall creatives in this industry.
Let's figure out the best wayto support one another.
(28:09):
And the fact theyjust started that out from
scratch is amazing.
So that's what I would sayis like, if you're not
finding it, make it.
And I mean that'sthe biggest thing.
And then I also seek if youdon't feel like you have the
confidence yet or the tools orthe understanding or you're
not really, really sure howto do it.
I mean, AI is definitely goingto be your friend and
going and asking.
(28:30):
That's right.
But also reaching out to folks.
There's so many people whowould be grateful.
And I am like anyone whoreaches out to me,
I'm helpful, uh, excited totalk to them about whatever it
is that I could do to help themcreate something in
their space, but toif you need to move.
You know, Amazon was amazing.
You know, they were fromday one, I was able to be out
(28:52):
and there was no question itwasn't even a thought.
And to be to be honest, it wasbecause of transparent is why I
went to Amazon and I was ableto work on that series for all
the all the seasons,including the movie.
And then I knew I had mypurpose because I was working
on content that was, again,sharing more visibility for
people around the world sobillions of eyeballs can get on
(29:15):
it versus it being, um,just being in small.
But I think starting small andthen allowing that to find that
community there to get that,um, feeling of, uh, that you
feel empowered, then I thinkyou're going to be able to do
way more in life and in yourjob so that you can focus on
your job and dothe best that you can.
(29:37):
I it's such greatadvice, Valerie.
I think, as you said, um,talking about we are vibrant.
I what a great example.
I it even makes me think abouta year ago I thought,
you know, I'd love to tellstories of LGBT folks in the
workplace who have navigatedthis complicated workplace.
(30:00):
And I thought, well,someone's telling those stories.
And in fact, other than maybesome Pride Month activities
where companies do do somepromotion of their their
diverse workforce, there reallywasn't a place which that was
how Klout for good started.
And I love sounds likewe are vibrant.
It's this we'rewe found this gap,
we found this opportunity.
(30:21):
And I think it'sa really important.
Recommendation and then andsomething to think about is I
often sit in a place and go,well, I'm sure there's someone
already doing this.
I'm sure this already exists.
And I think your your advice ofcreate it, you know, seek it.
And if itisn't there, create it.
And I think you are exactlyright with also we have the
(30:44):
resources where we have toolsthat we can use.
We have channelswe can leverage.
And, you know,really consistently across all
of my conversations with myguest is, you know, seek your
community and seeking yourcommunity can take some effort.
And and I thinkthat's great advice.
And Valerie, one questionfor you, with this impressive
(31:07):
career and such a it feels liketo me as I listen to
your your stories.
And yourexperiences really navigating.
Whether you see them aschallenges or not,
but navigating situations thathave been learning moments and
being able to move on to thenext and being able to grow and
(31:29):
thrive and be able to say,I want to work now you're in
a position, I want to workthis way, and this is what I'd
like to do.
Where have you been most proud?
You know, clout for good is iswhen you're out, you have this
clout and you can do good.
Tell us a little bit aboutmaybe a few examples of where
you're most proud of the workyou've been able to now do
(31:51):
after you've been able to comeout and and where you've been
able to make an impact that,that you're proud of.
Yeah, I think the AI being atAmazon was wonderful because I
was able to work on I mean,luckily, I had the option to be
able to choose what I worked on.
And I would say out of the 80plus shows and films that I
(32:11):
worked on in series andspecials and all of them.
1%.
Wasn't something I wantedto work on.
The the rest, the 99.
The rest of it I there was somesort of purposeful,
wonderful story that was beingput out into the world.
A lot of them had someLGBTQ content, but there's
(32:32):
other things that I'mfascinated about in the world,
and I think anything thatcreates an aha moment for
anybody to think differentlyis really powerful.
And anything to be able todive deeper, to be a better
person in this world,anything that's going to bring
good into the world iswhat I like to get behind.
So working on transparent andwith Joey Soloway and their
(32:56):
whole team and cast and crew,that was just what a
gift that was.
And that series was phenomenal.
Fleabag with, you know,Phoebe Waller-Bridge and and
that was incredible toto work on.
And I got to work on A VeryEnglish Scandal with Hugh Grant
was another one.
It was greatcatastrophe was awesome.
(33:18):
Good omens if youall haven't watched Good Omens,
it is just fabulous.
It's just so good.
And I think, you know,maybe there's not like Good
Omens isn't full out gay,but it is so diverse the way
Neil Gaimanwrites those characters.
And then if you get throughseason two, you see the full
story and there's going to be aseason three, it's amazing.
And then also to support,like uncle Frank and Red,
(33:40):
white and Royal Blueand League of Your Own.
And there's so many others thatthat were a part of
that time there.
And I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of being able to, um,I don't have anything to do
with the creation ofthe series or the films.
I help market them,I help brand them.
I help figure out what that 360marketing campaign is going
(34:00):
to be, so that eyeballs willfind it, that it will pop out
and stand out from all of theother stuff that's out there
and attract the right audiences.
And because I love them, I amgoing to be able to tap into
those audience much quicker andbe able to to find, to to brand
it and get it tothat look and feel for them.
And that is wonderful.
And I, I truly love it.
(34:23):
I truly love it.
And to figure out what I'mgoing to do next, because I
just left Amazon, uh, in March.
So I have to figure out whereI'm going to go and what I'm
going to do next.
And I'm excited about whatthose opportunities and what
it looks like.
But, um, I hopefully I got todo more of that because I think
I'm pretty good at it.
That's awesome.
I, I've been impactedby those things.
(34:44):
You've worked on many of those,those shows and others.
I know I've, I've been a fan ofand have watched transparent
and the recently TheNew League of Their Own,
all really amazing shows.
Um, you mentioned weare vibrant, but one of the
other questions that I askedguests and so many great things
have come from this question,which is what resources,
(35:07):
you know, especially becauseyou've worked with so many
organizations and youvolunteered so much out
in the community.
Aside from we are vibrant,are there any other
organizations or resources thatyou might recommend to
listeners of Klout for good?
Yeah, I mean, I think.
One of the.
I'm one of the best things,I think that helped me find
(35:29):
community and also be better inthe world and understand things
is volunteering and like I atone point or another,
or attending the galas,figuring out ways to be a part
of the steering committees forthe events, like I was a part
of the Gay and Lesbian Centerand An Evening with women for
quite a few years.
And when we were, we raisedquite a lot of money for
(35:50):
the community there.
I've done stuff with Glad andTrevor Project and Lambda Legal
and glisten all the pridefestivals in Los Angeles.
There's a bunch of them now.
There was only one therefor a while.
Pound Point Foundation,Equality California, you know,
all of those.
And I remember doing the no.
One hate, you know, any timethere was an opportunity to be
(36:10):
able to show up.
I think that'sthe biggest thing.
Show up, attend, volunteer whenyou can, get on committee
committees or be a part of itin that way, if you can't give
the money and if you cangive money, please do.
I mean, I think that they whatthey're doing, the people who
are living and breathe in thatand that's their full time job
that's really impactful.
(36:31):
And the years that I was atOutfest to that was magical,
was like going to summer campevery summer and being a part
of that community for almost20 something, 25 years.
That's what I was lookingforward to, that in July for
the film festival and knowingand supporting all of the
filmmakers who were bringingtheir stories into the world.
And I think that those, uh,being a part of that is helpful.
(36:55):
But also, again, the internet,I think that's number one,
exploring, being curious,figuring out what is of
interest to you and, um,tapping into those places and
getting to know folks and thatand try not to stay within your
own little comfort zone andreally break out, because I
think that allows you to growmore and also get to
(37:15):
know more people.
I love, you know,great organizations.
And a takeaway, Valerie, that Ijust heard from you that
I love, many of my guests havegiven an organization or,
you know, talked about somesome place that you can get
information or insights.
But I love what you just said,which is just be a part of it.
Go volunteer, go show up,go be be present.
(37:37):
And I you know, Idid that throughout my, um,
early stages, whether itwas in LGBT related
sports or otherwise.
And I think it's such goodadvice because sometimes I
think these big events canbe really intimidating.
I think folks are, well,that's not for me, or I don't
have $5,000 for aticket or whatever it is.
And I think what youjust said is such great advice,
(37:59):
because there are ways toparticipate and volunteer and
get to know folks.
And and I too, that has beenand by the way, that's how
we met, you know, throughthrough these organizations.
And I think it's such a greatway there's there's a place
for everyone,these organizations and these,
these outlets really need,need help.
So I think that's that'sreally great advice.
So thanks for that.
And I'd love to know.
(38:21):
And I know the listeners wouldlove to know one final question.
So we want to know who'sinspired you along the way.
So a lot of these experiencesyou've shared and I think, uh,
your path has justbeen it's fascinating.
I didn't know a lot of thedetails you shared today,
so thank you for that.
But if you imagine you'rehosting a Klout for Good
(38:41):
Dinner party, what few queericons that have inspired you or
made an impact or that you lookup to might you want to have at
the table and tell us a littlebit about why you'd invite them
and why you'd want them there.
Can I disrupt this question?
Of course, of course.
Okay, so first off, my dreamand I and I've attended a
(39:06):
couple of these and they'repretty magical is I love those
long farm tables in the middleof like a vineyard or like,
so you're going to have a farmto table meal and you got all
the the firefly lightsgoing on everywhere.
You just create this wonderfulatmosphere so you can have more
than just three people join youat a dinner party.
So I like see the.
(39:28):
Creative director, the creativedirector at work, I like it,
I like it.
Yeah.
So I want to have abigger group, and I would love
to bring a collection of peopletogether from different
walks of life.
Not all queer.
I would like, you know,straight allies, maybe not
so straight allies.
I mean, if we can bring JerryFalwell back to see where
(39:50):
we are, I mean, I think hewould be a great guest.
But I think also bringingpeople together that will
deepen the connections anddiminish the divides and take
that opportunity knowing thatthis is a safe place,
magical place, creating that,uh, comfort that's there.
So everyone knows that they'refree to talk about whatever
they need to talk about.
But it's not force, but it'salso simply getting to know one
(40:13):
each other and finding thesimilarities and one another
versus the differences.
And I think that's important.
So I'm going to I'mgoing to give you my list.
My dream list, right?
I love it.
I love thinking about thisa little bit.
Good.
And there's a story behindevery one of them.
The last couple, couple ofthese I've met throughout my
life or worked with themat one point or another,
(40:33):
and then others.
I would love to work with them.
So we'll see ifpeople can guess who's who.
So number one is Amy Grant.
Number two is TimCook from Apple.
Mhm.
Uh, Jodie Foster Kara swishergotta have Dax Shepard and
Monica Padman from ArmchairExpert and then love to have
Kristen Bell join becausethat's going to bring another
(40:55):
whole dynamic to it.
Uh, Joey Soloway,Margaret Cho, Brené Brown,
which has been an impactfullistening to herself over
the years, Oprah,Shonda Rhimes, Lee Daniels,
Anderson Cooper, Janet Mock,Brandi Carlile,
(41:15):
and Andrew Scott.
I love it.
What a table and Ilove your premise.
I love your premise of,you know, those that that are a
part of the community,those that are allies,
those that aren't really I mean,I think right now it's
such an important time for that.
I mean, we have a reallycontentious fall ahead of us
with our political environment,and I love it.
(41:39):
And Andrew Scott, I justwatched the first episode of
Ripley last night.
So watching a favorite movie ofmine being turned into
that series, which is fantastic.
Well, I, I'd love to join.
That sounds amazing.
And I love the setting.
I've.
I too have been toone of those before and it's
it's really fantastic.
Well, Valerie, thank you somuch for your time today.
This is amazing.
You've been so generous withsharing all of your personal
(42:01):
stories and experiences.
I know that people are going toget a lot out of the
episode today, so thank you somuch for joining me.
Oh you're welcome.
It's my pleasure.
And I and Ido hope folks can resonate.
And it brings confidence topeople who feel like they don't
have it and they hear it.
So I do hope that.
I love it.
Well.
And to my listeners, thanks somuch for joining us today.
(42:22):
Please tune in every otherWednesday for a new episode of
clout for good.
Follow us on social.
Visit our website to subscribeto the newsletter, and I hope
this episode motivates you touse your clout for good to make
a difference in your workplace.
Thanks again.
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