March 17, 2024 • 42 mins
Discover the untapped potential of paraxanthine, as Daniel Solomons and Shawn Wells of Update Energy Drink join us to reveal how this caffeine metabolite is revolutionizing the energy drink industry. Feeling invigorated throughout the day and still achieving restful sleep at night might sound like a fantasy, and the gentlemen stop by today to tell you it's within reach.
Today's key takeaways:
- Paraxanthine: the cleaner, more sustainable boost than traditional caffeine and how this game-changing ingredient is making waves in the realms of cognitive enhancement and physical performance.
- Learn about the meticulous world of crafting premium nootropics and adaptogens, where taste and effectiveness are just the tip of the iceberg.
- We unpack the science of optimal ingredient dosing, steering clear of superficial 'feather dusting' to ensure real, tangible benefits.
Learn more about Update Energy Drink here, and score 10% off with coupon Chase on your next order.
Follow along on the socials:
@shawnwells
@danielsolomons_
@drinkupdate
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And you'll be able to feel the difference.
And if you try it over a fewdays and then you actually go
back and have a cup of coffee,you'll notice how that coffee
doesn't feel clean anymore.
I'm consistently making greatchoices about something that.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I've never done before.
I still do.
Welcome back to the Way of thePrimal man.
And guys, we got a fun onetoday because you're gonna learn
how I stay caffeinated withoutcaffeine during the day.
It's how I get a whole bunch ofwork out all the way until 4 pm
(00:40):
, absolutely energized, andstill sleep like a baby at night
Actually, kind of sleep better.
I think we got Daniel Salamenceand Sean Wells here and we're
gonna be talking about update.
Guys, thank you for being here.
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you for having us?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, definitely I wanna.
Their interest is peaked nowand I wanna break that open
because we are gonna talk aboutthis energy drink update you
guys have created and Sean theingredientologist with
(01:16):
parazanthin and creation of that, and if you guys heard other
anecdotal accounts of people'scircadian rhythm actually
improving, what are some?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
of the things that you guys have done, that you
guys have done, we have yeah,that's something we're actually
hearing consistently and we hada study ongoing to look at that
in Brazil and it was about twothirds of the way done and there
was some just stuff thathappened with people getting
fired at this university and itled to the whole study falling
(01:51):
apart.
But I can tell you anecdotallythere are a hundred people
showing me their ORA, ringscores, et cetera that we're
caffeine worsened HRV and sleepquality, rem sleep, deep sleep.
We're not only seeing it notworsen like caffeine, we're
actually seeing it improve overwhat would be, baseline being no
(02:12):
intervention, no caffeine, noparazanthin.
When people are on parazanthin,we're seeing better HRV, better
quality sleep consistently.
We don't have the study yet butI'm telling you it's very
consistent.
It's why we were trying to dothat study.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah.
So imagine now having not onlyan energy drink that doesn't
give you the side effects thatyou get from caffeine, not only
gets you energized, right, butthen also helps you sleep better
.
Like that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, there's a quote from Michael Pollan in his book
that I put in our deck early onwhen we were talking about
parazanthin and we named itInfinity, and he talks about how
that caffeine is a comatocostingredient and we are not seeing
parazanthin be that way.
We have a study where we pulledearly data from an e-gaming
(03:07):
study that's forthcoming thisyear where we actually see
improvements over time withcontinued use across the six
week study.
With e-gaming we see animprovement of performance
cognitively and physically withuse of parazanthin and with
caffeine we see a declination.
So it's just they're twototally different things.
(03:30):
They're somewhat related, butnet effect is very different.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And I love that you outlined improvement with
parazanthin as compared tobaseline, because I had cut most
caffeine out of my life beforeI found parazanthin.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Same.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and you said they're somewhat related.
Can you break that open what isparazanthin?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, parazanthin is a metabolite of caffeine, and
what that means is, for thosethat aren't super biochemically
inclined, they might just hearthat word and not really know
what that means.
It means that when you consumecaffeine, it will get what's
called demethylated, which justmeans removing a hydrogen like
(04:13):
off a certain spot.
It's a methyl group and so,depending on where you remove it
, it becomes one of three things.
It becomes the ophthalene, thearomene or parazanthin.
The aromene really doesn't havemuch benefit.
The ophthalene is a controlledsubstance.
A bronchodilator has a ton ofside effects, a lot of blood
(04:35):
pressure, heart rate issues, etcetera, anxiety, but it also
helps with kind of opening upthe lungs.
But then in the middle isparazanthin, and that's the one
where we're finding almost allthe benefit that you would
associate from caffeine withoutthe side effect.
But net, net, you're clearingout caffeine, you're clearing
(04:59):
out the ophthalene, the aromeneand their metabolites and just
going straight to the source.
And so a lot of people ask well, if I just have caffeine, am I
not just getting parazanthin too?
Yes, but here you're avoidingall of these things that have
toxicity.
(05:20):
Side effects will delay theeffect of parazanthin.
Caffeine can take up to 10 anda half hours to have a half life
converting from caffeine toparazanthine and ultimately it
could take days to one clear thecaffeine out of your system,
but days to convert thatcaffeine to parazanthine.
(05:43):
So you're not getting theeffect.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
That's the same, but you are getting a lot of side
effects from the caffeine, fromthe theophiline, from their
metabolites et cetera.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So this is where we're seeing it's just a totally
different thing.
Like when I first startedlooking into this, I was just
hoping it was just a little bitcleaner than caffeine and
somewhat similar, but somethingnew that I could patent.
It ended up being totally nightand day 1,000% better, because
I struggled with caffeine all mylife, caffeine's always been an
(06:15):
issue for me, so absolutelyit's become an amazing thing
that's actually neuroprotectiveand we can get into all that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Wow, a few different threads that I wanna pull on as
we have this conversation.
Open up more and just wow, forall the listeners are going wow,
what is this?
You named it.
Infinity.
Sounds kind of like thelimitless pill from that old
Bradley Cooper movie.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
You feel like that as well?
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I mean, yeah and Daniel, how did update come to
be?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So update really started as an idea about four
years ago, where my businesspartners and I we knew we wanted
to create an energy drinkwithout caffeine.
Why, well, caffeine?
Really it feels crude to us.
It feels strange that so manythings in the world are evolving
but caffeine has been aroundreally for several years and no
(07:23):
one's looking for a betteralternative or better source of
energy.
And 99% of adults are consumingcaffeine every day.
But you just go up to people inthe street and you say, hey, how
much caffeine do you drink?
And you'll get something likesheepish response.
They're almost embarrassedabout the amount of caffeine and
they're always backing up thatstatement by saying but I'm
(07:44):
trying to cut down and it'sclear that there's a demand for
something that gives you energy,but people haven't really
discovered what that is yet.
And then to take a step furtherjust, we always used to think
that if I drink a cup of coffeeor drink a Red Bull, or you
(08:04):
drink a cup of coffee in a RedBull, we're gonna have the same
experience.
We're gonna get the same levelof energy.
We're gonna feel energized forthe same timeframe.
It's gonna wear off at the samepoint in time.
We're gonna feel the same whenit wears off, and that's what we
all used to think.
But recently we've learned alot more about how our kind of
(08:25):
DNA and genes are working suchthat we metabolize caffeine at
different rates, and we'relearning more about that.
So we're learning that you havefast metabolizers and slow
metabolizers fast being thosewho can drink a cup of coffee
and go straight to sleep, whowe're all jealous of and then
you have the slow metabolizers.
Sean's one of them, and Chaseperhaps you were saying you cut
(08:47):
down caffeine a while ago.
Those are the people who drinka cup of coffee and their
cortisol rises, they get moreanxious, they get jittery, their
palms are sweating, theirstomach is churning.
And come two in the afternoon,when you're having that slump,
you're like oh damn, I can'thave a coffee and I'll be up all
night.
So again I go back to the factthat everyone essentially is
(09:13):
consuming caffeine, but roughly50 to 60% of people are slow
metabolizers.
So to Sean's point it's aningredient that comes at a cost,
and so, if we could come upwith some solution, we wanted to
really change how we got ourenergy, and that's when we dove
in to the world of Nutropix.
Really actually limitless withBradley Cooper was very much
(09:37):
like an inspiration here and wethought how can we concoct this
kind of dream product?
It started off by looking atall the different popular
Nutropic brands out there,trying them, working out what
are the popular ingredients andhow they used and how they work,
buying them off Amazon oringredient websites, mixing them
(10:00):
on my kitchen counter andchugging it back and seeing if I
felt great.
Very quickly learned I'm notthe ingredient scientist and I'm
not a formulator, and so tokind of achieve this, we had to
find the best in the business,and that's when we came across
(10:21):
Sean and brought him on board todo this project with us.
So it's been about three yearsof R&D, I would say, working at
how to be the first brand in theworld to actually formulate
with Parazanthine.
To take it a step further, notonly did we want to formulate a
(10:43):
beverage with Parazanthine, butwe didn't want to use artificial
sweeteners, which you find inall these energy drinks out
there, and so naturally thatmakes flavor work a lot more
challenging because you're notusing syrupy sweeteners that
mask any kind of bitterness.
And that's where Sean and histeam really worked their magic.
(11:05):
And again, it's been threeyears of R&D, back and forth,
playing with the formula,getting people's feedback,
thinking it was great putting itout there, getting more
feedback reiterating it, and nowwe actually just launched our
second version, which is nowzero calories, zero sugar, zero
(11:25):
carbs.
It's got Parazanthine, but thenit also has AlphaGPC B12.
And it's great.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, after we talked the first time, you sent
me a box of version two so Icould sample that and I love it.
Man, there's a definite justcoming across the screen.
There's a definite flavor.
There's a flavor profiledifference.
I was a fan of version one andI could tell more people I'd
(11:56):
imagine will be a fan of versiontwo.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, I think version one was definitely something
that if you're someone thatwants the effect and utility is
your kind of end goal, you'rewilling to drink anything.
I again I also thought ittasted great, but I think
version two is definitely moreaccessible from a taste profile.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
That's yes, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree, and from
my wife agrees too.
From sampling version one andversion two.
So from this small sample sizeyou got a yes on version two.
Great no-transcript, you guys.
And something cool about this,because in the natropic space
which is blown up, you know,you'll see, oh, this new product
(12:48):
, this new product.
Then you go to updates websiteand there's some, some decent
names that are behind this topeople that really believe in
high quality stuff and there'ssomething to be said for the
social proof that that brings.
I I, I first heard you guys,you know, before my friend Devin
introduced us.
Another friend of mineintroduced me the idea, paris
(13:11):
Anthony, and then he sent mebring Ben Greenfield's podcast.
You guys run.
So I mean Ben Greenfield, drMark Hyman, right?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, I think for us it was really important.
You know, when we formulatedthe product, you know there were
several kind of principles wehad in mind.
You know, first and foremost,you know it's a drink, it has to
taste good.
Secondly, we would only everput it to market if it was
effective.
So if you actually feltsomething, if there was an
experience associated with theproduct, because the world
(13:42):
doesn't need another, you knowNeutropic adaptogen product.
That you know people may or maynot feel, but it's a marketing
ploy.
We weren't into that.
Then the third principle we hadwas Anything we put in this
product has to be dosed at aneffective level, right, with
scientifically backed studies toback the dose.
(14:04):
And to that point, you know weworked with Sean to really do
this.
Every ingredient you have is aneffective dose in the product.
A lot of other products on themarket Will have, you know,
several ingredients that lookflashy on the label, often at
times to be able to make claimsaround the ingredients.
But I would imagine if you wereto dig into it, it's like
(14:28):
feather dusting of some of theseingredients to say they're in
the product.
That's not the case with us andconsequently, for us as a brand
.
It means our formula isexpensive.
So the product is definitely,you know, today, a premium
product, but I think itdefinitely offers that premium
experience and that's whatreally appealed to.
You know people like Dr MarkHyman, ben Greenfield, luke
(14:48):
story and Sean and his team andthat was really a requirement
for them to get involved.
And you know Sean can talk toall the other ingredients and
products.
He's formulated hundreds and Ithink that's one of his you know
Criteria of whether he'll workwith a brand.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
What is Sean?
What is an effective dose ofParis-Anthony?
So we've actually shown a lotof the products that Sean has.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
We've actually shown efficacy down to 50 milligrams
in our research.
We have a published study onthat.
But Really, what's moving theneedle is 100, 200, 300, that
we've studied.
200 was a was a sweet spot forefficacy and maybe value.
But you know, and and we have a400 milligram Grass which is
(15:42):
generally recognized as safe perday limit.
That was handed down becausethat's what caffeine is.
We're doing more work to getthat boosted up this year.
We're doing a lot more likewe're going well above and
beyond, like normal Toxicologywork and we're doing some really
deep like reproductive work andall this kind of stuff so that
(16:03):
we can get that level Higher.
But at the moment, 300milligrams was the max per use
and 400 is the max per day andbasically Daniel and crew were
like let's max it, let's hitthis like as we're.
You know this is a productthat's that's going to, you know
(16:25):
, be drank once a day and likeneeds to make impact
Neutropically and and reallythis is something that doesn't
fall off like people don't feellike the slump or the crash or
anything.
What I typically hear is I tookit, I was in flow state, I was
productive, and then you know,six hours past and I Don't know.
(16:45):
It's just crazy, like how justtime just you know slipped and I
was super productive that wholetime.
They didn't notice like adrop-off or a crash, or you know
, I need to go grab some M&Msnow because my sugar is low and
you know, whatever, like I'venever hear that like.
It just seems like a Clean,continuous energy.
You don't need to drink severalof these a day.
(17:06):
You know, like people are doingwith coax and diet, coax and
coax heroes and Starbucks andBangs and whatever.
You know, this is a verydifferent experience.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I also think, just on Sean's point earlier Because
the toxicity profile of caffeinein Paris-Anthony is
dramatically different.
In fact Paris-Anthony's 10times safer and less toxic than
caffeine and, as you can attest,chase that the actual Call it
side effects of caffeine thejitters, the crash, the anxiety,
(17:38):
etc.
You don't get that withParis-Anthony.
So you know looking to increasethat grass limit is not the
same as us wanting to put 600milligrams of caffeine in a
Energy drink versus 600milligrams of Paris-Anthony.
You know you can drink multipleupdates and you're not gonna
feel like you would if you drunk.
(17:58):
You know multiple bangs or youknow Ice coffees from Starbucks.
That you know it's a verydifferent effect.
So the goal is not to like maxout your Paris-Anthony intake so
you're jacked and wired.
In fact it works differently,such that you don't feel over
stimulated and wired.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Well, I'll let you guys in on a little secret.
I've drank two in a day and Ifelt great, so it's very clean.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I mean, at the end of the day it's a very, very clean
experience.
And not only Are you notexperiencing when we say clean,
you're not experiencing the sideeffects of caffeine being like
jitters, anxiety, like sleepdisruption, brain fog, all these
things that we associate, likeelevated heart rate, blood
pressure, that you associatewith Caffeine but it's so much
(18:50):
better than anything you've everexperienced with caffeine.
We're seeing it's highlyneutropic in our preclinical
data.
We're seeing it increasesglutathione and catalase these
master antioxidants reducesoxidative stress in the brain,
increases BDNF, which isneuroplasticity, which is
(19:11):
creating new neurons andprotecting neurons.
We're also seeing that itdecreases beta-amyloid plaque,
which is a contributor toAlzheimer's.
We're seeing that increasesdopamine, which in the moment is
good for flow and productivityand getting stuff done and
swaggered, and it's alsoneuroprotective against
(19:33):
neurodegenerative diseases likeParkinson's etc.
We're seeing that it increasesin humans nitric oxide by 50% to
the brain and to the muscles.
So you get that mind-muscleconnection but you're feeling
more blood flow, moreoxygenation to the tissues in
the brain.
So across the board, every waythat we think of that, either
(19:57):
the brain performs or the brainages we're having a positive
effect on.
And then there's the wholecourse, like the CNS stimulant
side of it, the whole adenosinereceptor inhibition, like the
wakefulness that you doassociated with caffeine, but
these other pieces you're notseeing with caffeine.
(20:19):
So this is where it issomething for nothing.
Essentially, it is somethingthat's actually healing your
brain and this is why we thinkwe're still waiting on the
larger pool of data on thate-gaming study.
But this is why we think thatwe're seeing this time effect.
That's what it's called.
When you see an effect overtime in a study.
(20:41):
There's a time effect where itimproves over time, where
caffeine is declining, orthere's a time effect that's
negative with caffeine.
There's an adaptation andhabituation effect with caffeine
that you don't have withparazanthine, and that's what's
really exciting.
We did a study, a 10K race withcyclists where we did a
(21:04):
multitasking test before andafter.
It's really task switching.
There is no true multitasking.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Thank you for making that point.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
It's a good explanation.
And after the race we saw,after exhaustion, we saw those
that took caffeine had moremental errors, more mental
errors.
We had placebo about the same,and with parazanthine, decreased
(21:35):
mental errors.
And so the delta between thetwo, meaning the difference
between the two was massivebetween caffeine and
parazanthine and we see it getmagnified with the more you're
exhausted or fatigued.
Also, we're expecting to see,because we did a preclinical
(21:56):
with this means rodents, wherewe did like a black pool of
water, where it has like a ledge.
We show the older rat the ledge, then we put them in the black
pool.
They have to find that ledge.
The rats, the older rats thattook parazanthine, cut the time
in a third.
They cut the time from 60seconds to around 20 seconds.
(22:20):
So we're like that that shouldjust blow.
That's not like, oh, it's fivepercent better, is like an
athlete wants five percentbetter.
That's that's you know what I'msaying when I'm talking like
three, four hundred percentbetter.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean, this is the limit, Westpill.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Exactly so.
This is the thing.
Like you know, I don't know howold you are, chase, you know
Daniel's, younger than me.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You know there's there's people like in our
studies.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
It's mostly 18 to 23 year olds.
I'm 35.
But I'm telling you I'm tellingyou, like, for people that,
like me, that are turning 50,for people that are, you know,
60, 70 people, you know,whatever out there, these, like
the results are going to be evenmore magnified.
Or the more fatigued you are,they're going to be more
magnified.
So that's what we're seeing.
(23:06):
The more exhausted you are, themore age you have, like, the
better the results Like they'realready great results with 18 to
23 year old healthy males.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's, and you, you picked up on exactly.
My next question to you wasgoing to be hey, what's your,
what's your favorite thing aboutParis Anthony?
And then you just went anddropped all those bombs.
So thank you for for answeringthe question before I asked it.
You said something about betaamyloid plaques and what I think
is really cool.
There is the double entendrethat we're getting with.
(23:40):
Like Paris Anthony has thateffect and if it is, improving
circadian rhythm and sleep isone of the biggest Preventions
of those plaques as well.
Well, now we're, we're justhitting it for multiple angles.
That's, that's amazing.
I wanted to ask you know, inversion two, you know in version
(24:01):
one, there were a few othernitropics in there, and in V2,
you kept Alpha GPC and, if Irecall, caught just about
everything else out besides theParis Anthony.
Can you break that open as tothe value of Alpha GPC and why
it's become those two alone?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, do you want me to jump in on that?
I know you want to jump in,okay.
So I mean, alpha GPC issomething we filed.
Well, colonergic, in particular, is something we filed a patent
around with Paris Anthony.
We see incredible synergy withthese two ingredients.
So obviously alpha GPC is themost bio available form of
(24:44):
colonic crosses.
The blood brain barrier andcolon is important for a couple
of big reasons.
There's a lot more than this,but these are two big reasons.
One, acetylcholine, theneurotransmitter associated with
productivity, getting work done, deep focused work is going to
be acetylcholine, like the moreyou're kind of doing that, you
know furrowing your brow, kindof focused work.
(25:07):
That's acetylcholine.
Like when you're doing yourdeepest, like staying on task
kind of work.
So you can think particularjobs like would would demand
more acetylcholine, right.
And then there's alsophospholipids that the brain is
made up of, which are largelyphosphatidylcholine.
(25:28):
So that's where the brain itselfis going to benefit from having
more of this alpha GPC, andwe've studied in preclinicals
the combination of the two andsaw amazing synergy between
alpha GPC and parazanthine.
So the pairing is somethingthat is truly synergistic and
(25:50):
special together, so we'redefinitely never pulling those
two apart.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, and when it comes.
When it came to the otheringredients that we removed, you
know, it wasn't so much becausethey were detracting from the
benefits of the product.
On the contrary, I thinkeverything we put in was very
intentional at the time.
However, while a lot of peoplewho are more neutropic aware,
(26:19):
you know, would know about thebenefits of to ring and nsc, to
L tyrosine, you know five HTP,elthinian, etc.
A lot of other people out therewho are less aware are somewhat
turned off by some of theseingredients.
And given how well parazanthineworks alone, let alone now
(26:39):
without the GPC, we felt, youknow, we can deliver, you know,
a great impact without having todeter other people from trying
the product.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That that's part of this chase is that actually,
when we studied in thepreclinical, we put parazanthine
with 50 other ingredients andso basically all the ergo genic
aids that you can think ofacross sports nutrition, all the
amino acids, all thesedifferent vitamins, different
things like creatine, whatever,and we looked at them and
(27:12):
basically everything gotoutshadowed in terms of
cognitive and physicalperformance in this model by
parazanthine, like the meaningthat the effect was so great
from the parazanthine itovershadowed any ability to have
synergy.
So like we would essentiallywhat this means is we would have
(27:32):
to take the parazanthine downso low that we could start
seeing the effects of the otheringredients.
That's like, that's how likegreat the magnification was, so
like that we took that intoaccount as well.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, and this is, you're blowing my mind wide open
here because, like, yeah, Ilisten to the Ben Greenfield
show.
I've been doing my research andjust being able to have this
conversation in person is veryvaluable and I'm super excited
to see where parazanthine goes.
Sean, I want to ask you aquestion about something else,
(28:07):
that being the scientist, andget your thought.
What are your thoughts onmethylene blue?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Oh cool, this is really out of the box.
Okay, there's a few things Iwould say there.
So I like the science of it, Ilike the idea of how it works
and I've used it personally andI do believe it works as far as
mitochondrial health, nad, etc.
(28:33):
The one quibble I would havewith it is it's not a dietary
supplement.
It does not occur in nature.
It is not a metabolite ofsomething that occurs in nature.
Therefore, it's not de-sheacompliant the Dietary
Supplements, health andEducation Act.
(28:54):
So it's being sold as asupplement in a lot of places
and originally it was a fishbowlcleaner.
That doesn't mean like I'm nottrying to like pull that thing
where it's like you know the JoeRogan, it's a dewormer and you
know all that.
I'm not trying tosensationalize it and vilify it
at all because I use it.
I'm just saying that, one, becareful where you source it, be
(29:19):
very careful where you source it.
Two, it will stain your mouthand tongue and all the things
blue and there's companies thatleverage that and that's cool.
Just be aware of that, you know.
But lastly, I would say, justjust Explore it.
(29:43):
Explore it, I Like it, but seehow it works for you.
But I am a.
I personally am a fan of it.
Some people I know don't seemto get a lot of effect from it.
I am actually going down to seeDr John LaRonce In the Miami
area and we're gonna do some Vcells together and do a
(30:04):
full-body procedure and he'sgoing to be putting some
methylene blue into some uniqueplaces directly.
So he's one of these guysthat's really on the cutting
edge and I Do think it's verycool.
But I I also do think it shouldnot be sold as a dietary
supplement.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I love that you put that disclaimer in there.
And Guys, listen to the, thescientists and his knowledge on
it.
Ear muffs for what I'm about tosay.
And I have Combined, you know,on a day, methylene blue with a
day that I'm drinking, an updateand that that combination of
the methylene blue and theParazanthin seems to really and
(30:46):
this is where I'm gonna tie thisback into our subject matter
here today's that combinationreally Really hit.
We'll say it like just awesome,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
One thing I'd say there is like that the more
mitochondrial dysfunction youhave when I go through this
heavily and this book, theenergy formula that I have the
more mitochondrial dysfunctionyou have, the more effective
that might be.
So for some people that don'thave that metabolic
mitochondrial dysfunction, maybethey're not gonna see as much
(31:19):
benefit.
But anyone that has likeautoimmune issues that you know
has has been through some kindof metabolic strain of viral
load, things like that may seeamazing benefit, similar to like
having NAD IVs etc.
So it is an interestingcompound.
(31:39):
I wish we had more data on it.
I've had some really coolexperiences on it too, and I'll
have to try that stack as well.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah man, I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes
for you and I'll.
I'll pull this back to to myquestion, because you dropped a
whole lot there and your here'severything that Paris Anthony
does, and it may not beeneverything and it was a whole
lot of the value.
And what's your favorite thingthat you've found so far there,
(32:10):
like one like the biggest like,and for both you guys, what's
your favorite like?
Oh wow, that's really cool.
I didn't expect it to do thisand I'm really, really impressed
with this.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
For me I would say the top thing.
You know I've had COVID a fewtimes and I've battled speaking
of kind of mitochondrialdysfunction in the brain it's
called brain energy gap and I'vebattled some kind of like long
COVID memory brain issues.
(32:44):
That have been tough, you know,for a guy that's Taking all the
things and doing all the thingsright.
I'm still dealt with that.
And Anything that increases BDNFblood flow, decreases beta
amyloid plaque, like like neuroprotective I'm taking, I'm
(33:05):
exploring, like I've done work,obviously and if you've listened
to my work on psychedelics,like micro dosing, to your point
, methylene blue there's certaincompounds that I've explored,
like seven, eight,dihydroxyflavone and its
metabolite, anything.
A lot of the polyphenols haveBDNF impact and we're studying
(33:27):
chlorogenic acid with ParisAnthony actually right now.
So the fact that it's reallyprotecting my brain and and the
most important Marker of that tome is BDNF, that one's really
exciting to me, like I love amore energized day and making me
(33:48):
like kind of get more thingsdone in the day, but like I'm
hitting a point in my life whereit's like I need to protect
this thing.
Hmm this is.
This is my, not only my moneymaker, but it's my longevity and
my well-being for the rest ofmy life.
And I worked in nursing homesas a chief clinical dietitian
(34:08):
and I have seen the ravages ofAlzheimer's, dementia and
Parkinson's and all thesedifferent conditions and I can
tell you that you know this islike the health span lifespan
thing right, like where I.
I saw people live with thesediseases for 10, 15 years but
(34:28):
they didn't know who theirchildren were.
They didn't know what food theywere eating.
You know it's like, and to knowthat like I can have something
that's going to protect me andMake my brain work better and be
younger, like that's that's apowerful motivator for me and
(34:49):
like it makes me feel like I didnot expect to see anything.
I thought it was going to be anenergy ingredient.
You know I did tea, cream anddynamite right and so those are
very popular energy ingredients.
We didn't show any of this withthat.
I so the fact that it's doingthis stuff increasing blood flow
to the brain and, you know,improving antioxidant status to
(35:10):
the brain like that's just, it'smassive for me.
Not only massive for mepersonally, but it makes me feel
good about talking about thisingredient that it isn't a come
at a cost ingredient.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
It's an all bent, all win ingredient.
From everything I've heard andeverything I've experienced,
that's awesome.
I could feel the appreciationyou have for that.
That BDNF and everything.
That's very cool, Daniel.
Same question, man what's yourfavorite thing about
Paris-Anthony?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, I guess, as someone who's not as in tuned as
Sean is, and probably as youare, with all the different
things happening in my body andbeing able to recognize all the
different nuances, and assomeone who hasn't necessarily
experimented with every singlesupplement under the sun, I
(36:02):
think for me but it's funny like, irrespective of that, it's
really had a life changingexperience.
For me, I think, is in a numberof ways.
Firstly, I would call myselffour years ago somewhat of a
caffeine addict.
Like I'm sure many peoplelistening to this probably can
(36:22):
relate to, I would be havingcoffee from the moment I woke up
till 5 PM in the afternoon.
Part of it was because I feltthere was a reliance on it, Part
of it was because I liked thetaste.
But especially as it crept intothat afternoon series of
(36:43):
coffees, I definitely was hitwith not having a great night's
sleep.
I would kind of feel a bitjittery towards the end of the
day and my stomach would just bechurning.
So for me, what Parazanthine hasreally allowed me to do is wean
off and cut back my coffeeconsumption kind of all the way.
(37:09):
I have one in the morningbecause I like a hot drink in
the morning and it's kind of acoffee cools down faster than a
tea for me.
So I opt for the coffee and Ilike the smell etc.
But then I'm drinking one ortwo updates for the rest of the
day and being able to feel anoptimal sense of energy, almost
(37:31):
like that euphoric sense ofenergy you get from an Adderall,
but without the overstimulationthat a coffee would give you or
without.
Like you know, when you take anAdderall you feel like you have
these blinders that you don'twant to be social, but on the
flip side, Parazanthine actuallykind of drives your motivation
and mood.
So you know, to Sean's pointearlier he mentioned the word
(37:53):
swagger, which I know he's got apatent on that one but you
really feel like that and thenkind of the best part is you can
drink this later in the day andyou don't crash and it doesn't
disrupt your sleep.
And so from my perspective it'sbeen less about the specifics
around kind of brain health,blood health etc.
(38:15):
And more around how it'sallowed me to transform my
lifestyle in a way thatphysically I feel much healthier
.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I love that.
I love both those answers.
Gentlemen, we'll respect yourguys' time.
I promised I'd you know we wantto give you a buffer at the end
of this appointment so you guyshave time in your days.
Is there anything else fromeither that you feel like the
public needs to know aboutParazanthine?
I know we went deep here and ifthere's anything we missed and
any nuggets you want to drop,now's the time.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Sean, I don't know what you would say, but all I
would say is you know, when welaunched update, there was some
skepticism about it, and I thinkthere are two things to kind of
call out.
One, Parazanthine is not new,While it is new as a standalone
ingredient.
You know, anytime you drink acoffee, tea, energy drink, your
(39:14):
body's breaking down thatcaffeine into some part
Parazanthine.
And the second part is just tryit and you'll be able to feel
the difference.
And if you try it over a fewdays and then you actually go
back and have a cup of coffee,you'll notice how that coffee
(39:34):
doesn't feel clean anymore.
And so if you are skepticalwhatsoever, you know, just try
it.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I 100% agreed with Daniel Like that is the point to
end on is it's experiential.
You don't have to believe allthe science.
Like look into that after, justtry it and you'll feel the
difference first time.
And it's such a great point byDaniel that you'll go back and
(40:03):
have caffeine and realize howdirty and almost abusive it is.
Like you're addicted to it.
It's an addictive relationshipthat you have with it, similar
to sugar, and this is somethingthat will get you out of that
addiction and give you better,cleaner energy without the side
(40:25):
effects and protect your brain,like this.
Just it is an all win situationand it tastes good, so in this
product it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well said, where can the people find update?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Sure.
So I mean, firstly, you canread all about the science.
We have it on our website,drinkupdatecom.
You can also buy the productthere at drinkupdatecom, and
then you can also find us onAmazon.
Or if you're based in New York,we're in, you know, several
hundred retailers.
In LA we're in stores likeErwan mother's market and in
(40:58):
Austin at Alive and Well andSunlife Organics.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Beautiful, and where can the people find you guys?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
You can find myself or update you know Daniel
Solomon's underscore or atdrinkupdate, and then Sean.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, I'm at Sean Wells S-H-A-W-N-W-E-L-L-S, and
then you can go to Sean Wellscomas well and I have like a
weekly newsletter going throughall the supplement science and
my Instagram is loaded with coolinfographics and supplement
stacks and information aboutparazanthine and update and all
(41:39):
the things.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
You had a recent post about how big of a fan you are
of creatine, if I recallcorrectly.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Awesome.
And if you guys already haveyour phones out, go to
drinkupdatecom to order.
Use code Chase for 10% off.
Daniel Sean, thank you so muchfor being here.
I appreciate your time.
This has been a very mindexpanding and mind protecting
conversation.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks Hi Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi,hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi,
hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi Hi.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I need to see a new אני Scan� logo, a new label
Newimentos London, southampton,newillar, australia, haupt國家
Berlin, black and whiteno-transcript.
And you'll be able to feel the difference.
And if you try it over a fewdays and then you actually go
back and have a cup of coffee,you'll notice how that coffee
doesn't feel clean anymore.
I'm consistently making greatchoices about something that.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I've never done before.
I still do.
Welcome back to the Way of thePrimal man.
And guys, we got a fun onetoday because you're gonna learn
how I stay caffeinated withoutcaffeine during the day.
It's how I get a whole bunch ofwork out all the way until 4 pm
(00:40):
, absolutely energized, andstill sleep like a baby at night
Actually, kind of sleep better.
I think we got Daniel Salamenceand Sean Wells here and we're
gonna be talking about update.
Guys, thank you for being here.
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you for having us?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, definitely I wanna.
Their interest is peaked nowand I wanna break that open
because we are gonna talk aboutthis energy drink update you
guys have created and Sean theingredientologist with
(01:16):
parazanthin and creation of that, and if you guys heard other
anecdotal accounts of people'scircadian rhythm actually
improving, what are some?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
of the things that you guys have done, that you
guys have done, we have yeah,that's something we're actually
hearing consistently and we hada study ongoing to look at that
in Brazil and it was about twothirds of the way done and there
was some just stuff thathappened with people getting
fired at this university and itled to the whole study falling
(01:51):
apart.
But I can tell you anecdotallythere are a hundred people
showing me their ORA, ringscores, et cetera that we're
caffeine worsened HRV and sleepquality, rem sleep, deep sleep.
We're not only seeing it notworsen like caffeine, we're
actually seeing it improve overwhat would be, baseline being no
(02:12):
intervention, no caffeine, noparazanthin.
When people are on parazanthin,we're seeing better HRV, better
quality sleep consistently.
We don't have the study yet butI'm telling you it's very
consistent.
It's why we were trying to dothat study.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah.
So imagine now having not onlyan energy drink that doesn't
give you the side effects thatyou get from caffeine, not only
gets you energized, right, butthen also helps you sleep better
.
Like that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, there's a quote from Michael Pollan in his book
that I put in our deck early onwhen we were talking about
parazanthin and we named itInfinity, and he talks about how
that caffeine is a comatocostingredient and we are not seeing
parazanthin be that way.
We have a study where we pulledearly data from an e-gaming
(03:07):
study that's forthcoming thisyear where we actually see
improvements over time withcontinued use across the six
week study.
With e-gaming we see animprovement of performance
cognitively and physically withuse of parazanthin and with
caffeine we see a declination.
So it's just they're twototally different things.
(03:30):
They're somewhat related, butnet effect is very different.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And I love that you outlined improvement with
parazanthin as compared tobaseline, because I had cut most
caffeine out of my life beforeI found parazanthin.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Same.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and you said they're somewhat related.
Can you break that open what isparazanthin?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, parazanthin is a metabolite of caffeine, and
what that means is, for thosethat aren't super biochemically
inclined, they might just hearthat word and not really know
what that means.
It means that when you consumecaffeine, it will get what's
called demethylated, which justmeans removing a hydrogen like
(04:13):
off a certain spot.
It's a methyl group and so,depending on where you remove it
, it becomes one of three things.
It becomes the ophthalene, thearomene or parazanthin.
The aromene really doesn't havemuch benefit.
The ophthalene is a controlledsubstance.
A bronchodilator has a ton ofside effects, a lot of blood
(04:35):
pressure, heart rate issues, etcetera, anxiety, but it also
helps with kind of opening upthe lungs.
But then in the middle isparazanthin, and that's the one
where we're finding almost allthe benefit that you would
associate from caffeine withoutthe side effect.
But net, net, you're clearingout caffeine, you're clearing
(04:59):
out the ophthalene, the aromeneand their metabolites and just
going straight to the source.
And so a lot of people ask well, if I just have caffeine, am I
not just getting parazanthin too?
Yes, but here you're avoidingall of these things that have
toxicity.
(05:20):
Side effects will delay theeffect of parazanthin.
Caffeine can take up to 10 anda half hours to have a half life
converting from caffeine toparazanthine and ultimately it
could take days to one clear thecaffeine out of your system,
but days to convert thatcaffeine to parazanthine.
(05:43):
So you're not getting theeffect.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
That's the same, but you are getting a lot of side
effects from the caffeine, fromthe theophiline, from their
metabolites et cetera.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So this is where we're seeing it's just a totally
different thing.
Like when I first startedlooking into this, I was just
hoping it was just a little bitcleaner than caffeine and
somewhat similar, but somethingnew that I could patent.
It ended up being totally nightand day 1,000% better, because
I struggled with caffeine all mylife, caffeine's always been an
(06:15):
issue for me, so absolutelyit's become an amazing thing
that's actually neuroprotectiveand we can get into all that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Wow, a few different threads that I wanna pull on as
we have this conversation.
Open up more and just wow, forall the listeners are going wow,
what is this?
You named it.
Infinity.
Sounds kind of like thelimitless pill from that old
Bradley Cooper movie.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
You feel like that as well?
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I mean, yeah and Daniel, how did update come to
be?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So update really started as an idea about four
years ago, where my businesspartners and I we knew we wanted
to create an energy drinkwithout caffeine.
Why, well, caffeine?
Really it feels crude to us.
It feels strange that so manythings in the world are evolving
but caffeine has been aroundreally for several years and no
(07:23):
one's looking for a betteralternative or better source of
energy.
And 99% of adults are consumingcaffeine every day.
But you just go up to people inthe street and you say, hey, how
much caffeine do you drink?
And you'll get something likesheepish response.
They're almost embarrassedabout the amount of caffeine and
they're always backing up thatstatement by saying but I'm
(07:44):
trying to cut down and it'sclear that there's a demand for
something that gives you energy,but people haven't really
discovered what that is yet.
And then to take a step furtherjust, we always used to think
that if I drink a cup of coffeeor drink a Red Bull, or you
(08:04):
drink a cup of coffee in a RedBull, we're gonna have the same
experience.
We're gonna get the same levelof energy.
We're gonna feel energized forthe same timeframe.
It's gonna wear off at the samepoint in time.
We're gonna feel the same whenit wears off, and that's what we
all used to think.
But recently we've learned alot more about how our kind of
(08:25):
DNA and genes are working suchthat we metabolize caffeine at
different rates, and we'relearning more about that.
So we're learning that you havefast metabolizers and slow
metabolizers fast being thosewho can drink a cup of coffee
and go straight to sleep, whowe're all jealous of and then
you have the slow metabolizers.
Sean's one of them, and Chaseperhaps you were saying you cut
(08:47):
down caffeine a while ago.
Those are the people who drinka cup of coffee and their
cortisol rises, they get moreanxious, they get jittery, their
palms are sweating, theirstomach is churning.
And come two in the afternoon,when you're having that slump,
you're like oh damn, I can'thave a coffee and I'll be up all
night.
So again I go back to the factthat everyone essentially is
(09:13):
consuming caffeine, but roughly50 to 60% of people are slow
metabolizers.
So to Sean's point it's aningredient that comes at a cost,
and so, if we could come upwith some solution, we wanted to
really change how we got ourenergy, and that's when we dove
in to the world of Nutropix.
Really actually limitless withBradley Cooper was very much
(09:37):
like an inspiration here and wethought how can we concoct this
kind of dream product?
It started off by looking atall the different popular
Nutropic brands out there,trying them, working out what
are the popular ingredients andhow they used and how they work,
buying them off Amazon oringredient websites, mixing them
(10:00):
on my kitchen counter andchugging it back and seeing if I
felt great.
Very quickly learned I'm notthe ingredient scientist and I'm
not a formulator, and so tokind of achieve this, we had to
find the best in the business,and that's when we came across
(10:21):
Sean and brought him on board todo this project with us.
So it's been about three yearsof R&D, I would say, working at
how to be the first brand in theworld to actually formulate
with Parazanthine.
To take it a step further, notonly did we want to formulate a
(10:43):
beverage with Parazanthine, butwe didn't want to use artificial
sweeteners, which you find inall these energy drinks out
there, and so naturally thatmakes flavor work a lot more
challenging because you're notusing syrupy sweeteners that
mask any kind of bitterness.
And that's where Sean and histeam really worked their magic.
(11:05):
And again, it's been threeyears of R&D, back and forth,
playing with the formula,getting people's feedback,
thinking it was great putting itout there, getting more
feedback reiterating it, and nowwe actually just launched our
second version, which is nowzero calories, zero sugar, zero
(11:25):
carbs.
It's got Parazanthine, but thenit also has AlphaGPC B12.
And it's great.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, after we talked the first time, you sent
me a box of version two so Icould sample that and I love it.
Man, there's a definite justcoming across the screen.
There's a definite flavor.
There's a flavor profiledifference.
I was a fan of version one andI could tell more people I'd
(11:56):
imagine will be a fan of versiontwo.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, I think version one was definitely something
that if you're someone thatwants the effect and utility is
your kind of end goal, you'rewilling to drink anything.
I again I also thought ittasted great, but I think
version two is definitely moreaccessible from a taste profile.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
That's yes, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree, and from
my wife agrees too.
From sampling version one andversion two.
So from this small sample sizeyou got a yes on version two.
Great no-transcript, you guys.
And something cool about this,because in the natropic space
which is blown up, you know,you'll see, oh, this new product
(12:48):
, this new product.
Then you go to updates websiteand there's some, some decent
names that are behind this topeople that really believe in
high quality stuff and there'ssomething to be said for the
social proof that that brings.
I I, I first heard you guys,you know, before my friend Devin
introduced us.
Another friend of mineintroduced me the idea, paris
(13:11):
Anthony, and then he sent mebring Ben Greenfield's podcast.
You guys run.
So I mean Ben Greenfield, drMark Hyman, right?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, I think for us it was really important.
You know, when we formulatedthe product, you know there were
several kind of principles wehad in mind.
You know, first and foremost,you know it's a drink, it has to
taste good.
Secondly, we would only everput it to market if it was
effective.
So if you actually feltsomething, if there was an
experience associated with theproduct, because the world
(13:42):
doesn't need another, you knowNeutropic adaptogen product.
That you know people may or maynot feel, but it's a marketing
ploy.
We weren't into that.
Then the third principle we hadwas Anything we put in this
product has to be dosed at aneffective level, right, with
scientifically backed studies toback the dose.
(14:04):
And to that point, you know weworked with Sean to really do
this.
Every ingredient you have is aneffective dose in the product.
A lot of other products on themarket Will have, you know,
several ingredients that lookflashy on the label, often at
times to be able to make claimsaround the ingredients.
But I would imagine if you wereto dig into it, it's like
(14:28):
feather dusting of some of theseingredients to say they're in
the product.
That's not the case with us andconsequently, for us as a brand
.
It means our formula isexpensive.
So the product is definitely,you know, today, a premium
product, but I think itdefinitely offers that premium
experience and that's whatreally appealed to.
You know people like Dr MarkHyman, ben Greenfield, luke
(14:48):
story and Sean and his team andthat was really a requirement
for them to get involved.
And you know Sean can talk toall the other ingredients and
products.
He's formulated hundreds and Ithink that's one of his you know
Criteria of whether he'll workwith a brand.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
What is Sean?
What is an effective dose ofParis-Anthony?
So we've actually shown a lotof the products that Sean has.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
We've actually shown efficacy down to 50 milligrams
in our research.
We have a published study onthat.
But Really, what's moving theneedle is 100, 200, 300, that
we've studied.
200 was a was a sweet spot forefficacy and maybe value.
But you know, and and we have a400 milligram Grass which is
(15:42):
generally recognized as safe perday limit.
That was handed down becausethat's what caffeine is.
We're doing more work to getthat boosted up this year.
We're doing a lot more likewe're going well above and
beyond, like normal Toxicologywork and we're doing some really
deep like reproductive work andall this kind of stuff so that
(16:03):
we can get that level Higher.
But at the moment, 300milligrams was the max per use
and 400 is the max per day andbasically Daniel and crew were
like let's max it, let's hitthis like as we're.
You know this is a productthat's that's going to, you know
(16:25):
, be drank once a day and likeneeds to make impact
Neutropically and and reallythis is something that doesn't
fall off like people don't feellike the slump or the crash or
anything.
What I typically hear is I tookit, I was in flow state, I was
productive, and then you know,six hours past and I Don't know.
(16:45):
It's just crazy, like how justtime just you know slipped and I
was super productive that wholetime.
They didn't notice like adrop-off or a crash, or you know
, I need to go grab some M&Msnow because my sugar is low and
you know, whatever, like I'venever hear that like.
It just seems like a Clean,continuous energy.
You don't need to drink severalof these a day.
(17:06):
You know, like people are doingwith coax and diet, coax and
coax heroes and Starbucks andBangs and whatever.
You know, this is a verydifferent experience.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I also think, just on Sean's point earlier Because
the toxicity profile of caffeinein Paris-Anthony is
dramatically different.
In fact Paris-Anthony's 10times safer and less toxic than
caffeine and, as you can attest,chase that the actual Call it
side effects of caffeine thejitters, the crash, the anxiety,
(17:38):
etc.
You don't get that withParis-Anthony.
So you know looking to increasethat grass limit is not the
same as us wanting to put 600milligrams of caffeine in a
Energy drink versus 600milligrams of Paris-Anthony.
You know you can drink multipleupdates and you're not gonna
feel like you would if you drunk.
(17:58):
You know multiple bangs or youknow Ice coffees from Starbucks.
That you know it's a verydifferent effect.
So the goal is not to like maxout your Paris-Anthony intake so
you're jacked and wired.
In fact it works differently,such that you don't feel over
stimulated and wired.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Well, I'll let you guys in on a little secret.
I've drank two in a day and Ifelt great, so it's very clean.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I mean, at the end of the day it's a very, very clean
experience.
And not only Are you notexperiencing when we say clean,
you're not experiencing the sideeffects of caffeine being like
jitters, anxiety, like sleepdisruption, brain fog, all these
things that we associate, likeelevated heart rate, blood
pressure, that you associatewith Caffeine but it's so much
(18:50):
better than anything you've everexperienced with caffeine.
We're seeing it's highlyneutropic in our preclinical
data.
We're seeing it increasesglutathione and catalase these
master antioxidants reducesoxidative stress in the brain,
increases BDNF, which isneuroplasticity, which is
(19:11):
creating new neurons andprotecting neurons.
We're also seeing that itdecreases beta-amyloid plaque,
which is a contributor toAlzheimer's.
We're seeing that increasesdopamine, which in the moment is
good for flow and productivityand getting stuff done and
swaggered, and it's alsoneuroprotective against
(19:33):
neurodegenerative diseases likeParkinson's etc.
We're seeing that it increasesin humans nitric oxide by 50% to
the brain and to the muscles.
So you get that mind-muscleconnection but you're feeling
more blood flow, moreoxygenation to the tissues in
the brain.
So across the board, every waythat we think of that, either
(19:57):
the brain performs or the brainages we're having a positive
effect on.
And then there's the wholecourse, like the CNS stimulant
side of it, the whole adenosinereceptor inhibition, like the
wakefulness that you doassociated with caffeine, but
these other pieces you're notseeing with caffeine.
(20:19):
So this is where it issomething for nothing.
Essentially, it is somethingthat's actually healing your
brain and this is why we thinkwe're still waiting on the
larger pool of data on thate-gaming study.
But this is why we think thatwe're seeing this time effect.
That's what it's called.
When you see an effect overtime in a study.
(20:41):
There's a time effect where itimproves over time, where
caffeine is declining, orthere's a time effect that's
negative with caffeine.
There's an adaptation andhabituation effect with caffeine
that you don't have withparazanthine, and that's what's
really exciting.
We did a study, a 10K race withcyclists where we did a
(21:04):
multitasking test before andafter.
It's really task switching.
There is no true multitasking.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Thank you for making that point.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
It's a good explanation.
And after the race we saw,after exhaustion, we saw those
that took caffeine had moremental errors, more mental
errors.
We had placebo about the same,and with parazanthine, decreased
(21:35):
mental errors.
And so the delta between thetwo, meaning the difference
between the two was massivebetween caffeine and
parazanthine and we see it getmagnified with the more you're
exhausted or fatigued.
Also, we're expecting to see,because we did a preclinical
(21:56):
with this means rodents, wherewe did like a black pool of
water, where it has like a ledge.
We show the older rat the ledge, then we put them in the black
pool.
They have to find that ledge.
The rats, the older rats thattook parazanthine, cut the time
in a third.
They cut the time from 60seconds to around 20 seconds.
(22:20):
So we're like that that shouldjust blow.
That's not like, oh, it's fivepercent better, is like an
athlete wants five percentbetter.
That's that's you know what I'msaying when I'm talking like
three, four hundred percentbetter.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean, this is the limit, Westpill.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Exactly so.
This is the thing.
Like you know, I don't know howold you are, chase, you know
Daniel's, younger than me.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You know there's there's people like in our
studies.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
It's mostly 18 to 23 year olds.
I'm 35.
But I'm telling you I'm tellingyou, like, for people that,
like me, that are turning 50,for people that are, you know,
60, 70 people, you know,whatever out there, these, like
the results are going to be evenmore magnified.
Or the more fatigued you are,they're going to be more
magnified.
So that's what we're seeing.
(23:06):
The more exhausted you are, themore age you have, like, the
better the results Like they'realready great results with 18 to
23 year old healthy males.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's, and you, you picked up on exactly.
My next question to you wasgoing to be hey, what's your,
what's your favorite thing aboutParis Anthony?
And then you just went anddropped all those bombs.
So thank you for for answeringthe question before I asked it.
You said something about betaamyloid plaques and what I think
is really cool.
There is the double entendrethat we're getting with.
(23:40):
Like Paris Anthony has thateffect and if it is, improving
circadian rhythm and sleep isone of the biggest Preventions
of those plaques as well.
Well, now we're, we're justhitting it for multiple angles.
That's, that's amazing.
I wanted to ask you know, inversion two, you know in version
(24:01):
one, there were a few othernitropics in there, and in V2,
you kept Alpha GPC and, if Irecall, caught just about
everything else out besides theParis Anthony.
Can you break that open as tothe value of Alpha GPC and why
it's become those two alone?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, do you want me to jump in on that?
I know you want to jump in,okay.
So I mean, alpha GPC issomething we filed.
Well, colonergic, in particular, is something we filed a patent
around with Paris Anthony.
We see incredible synergy withthese two ingredients.
So obviously alpha GPC is themost bio available form of
(24:44):
colonic crosses.
The blood brain barrier andcolon is important for a couple
of big reasons.
There's a lot more than this,but these are two big reasons.
One, acetylcholine, theneurotransmitter associated with
productivity, getting work done, deep focused work is going to
be acetylcholine, like the moreyou're kind of doing that, you
know furrowing your brow, kindof focused work.
(25:07):
That's acetylcholine.
Like when you're doing yourdeepest, like staying on task
kind of work.
So you can think particularjobs like would would demand
more acetylcholine, right.
And then there's alsophospholipids that the brain is
made up of, which are largelyphosphatidylcholine.
(25:28):
So that's where the brain itselfis going to benefit from having
more of this alpha GPC, andwe've studied in preclinicals
the combination of the two andsaw amazing synergy between
alpha GPC and parazanthine.
So the pairing is somethingthat is truly synergistic and
(25:50):
special together, so we'redefinitely never pulling those
two apart.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, and when it comes.
When it came to the otheringredients that we removed, you
know, it wasn't so much becausethey were detracting from the
benefits of the product.
On the contrary, I thinkeverything we put in was very
intentional at the time.
However, while a lot of peoplewho are more neutropic aware,
(26:19):
you know, would know about thebenefits of to ring and nsc, to
L tyrosine, you know five HTP,elthinian, etc.
A lot of other people out therewho are less aware are somewhat
turned off by some of theseingredients.
And given how well parazanthineworks alone, let alone now
(26:39):
without the GPC, we felt, youknow, we can deliver, you know,
a great impact without having todeter other people from trying
the product.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That that's part of this chase is that actually,
when we studied in thepreclinical, we put parazanthine
with 50 other ingredients andso basically all the ergo genic
aids that you can think ofacross sports nutrition, all the
amino acids, all thesedifferent vitamins, different
things like creatine, whatever,and we looked at them and
(27:12):
basically everything gotoutshadowed in terms of
cognitive and physicalperformance in this model by
parazanthine, like the meaningthat the effect was so great
from the parazanthine itovershadowed any ability to have
synergy.
So like we would essentiallywhat this means is we would have
(27:32):
to take the parazanthine downso low that we could start
seeing the effects of the otheringredients.
That's like, that's how likegreat the magnification was, so
like that we took that intoaccount as well.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, and this is, you're blowing my mind wide open
here because, like, yeah, Ilisten to the Ben Greenfield
show.
I've been doing my research andjust being able to have this
conversation in person is veryvaluable and I'm super excited
to see where parazanthine goes.
Sean, I want to ask you aquestion about something else,
(28:07):
that being the scientist, andget your thought.
What are your thoughts onmethylene blue?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Oh cool, this is really out of the box.
Okay, there's a few things Iwould say there.
So I like the science of it, Ilike the idea of how it works
and I've used it personally andI do believe it works as far as
mitochondrial health, nad, etc.
(28:33):
The one quibble I would havewith it is it's not a dietary
supplement.
It does not occur in nature.
It is not a metabolite ofsomething that occurs in nature.
Therefore, it's not de-sheacompliant the Dietary
Supplements, health andEducation Act.
(28:54):
So it's being sold as asupplement in a lot of places
and originally it was a fishbowlcleaner.
That doesn't mean like I'm nottrying to like pull that thing
where it's like you know the JoeRogan, it's a dewormer and you
know all that.
I'm not trying tosensationalize it and vilify it
at all because I use it.
I'm just saying that, one, becareful where you source it, be
(29:19):
very careful where you source it.
Two, it will stain your mouthand tongue and all the things
blue and there's companies thatleverage that and that's cool.
Just be aware of that, you know.
But lastly, I would say, justjust Explore it.
(29:43):
Explore it, I Like it, but seehow it works for you.
But I am a.
I personally am a fan of it.
Some people I know don't seemto get a lot of effect from it.
I am actually going down to seeDr John LaRonce In the Miami
area and we're gonna do some Vcells together and do a
(30:04):
full-body procedure and he'sgoing to be putting some
methylene blue into some uniqueplaces directly.
So he's one of these guysthat's really on the cutting
edge and I Do think it's verycool.
But I I also do think it shouldnot be sold as a dietary
supplement.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I love that you put that disclaimer in there.
And Guys, listen to the, thescientists and his knowledge on
it.
Ear muffs for what I'm about tosay.
And I have Combined, you know,on a day, methylene blue with a
day that I'm drinking, an updateand that that combination of
the methylene blue and theParazanthin seems to really and
(30:46):
this is where I'm gonna tie thisback into our subject matter
here today's that combinationreally Really hit.
We'll say it like just awesome,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
One thing I'd say there is like that the more
mitochondrial dysfunction youhave when I go through this
heavily and this book, theenergy formula that I have the
more mitochondrial dysfunctionyou have, the more effective
that might be.
So for some people that don'thave that metabolic
mitochondrial dysfunction, maybethey're not gonna see as much
(31:19):
benefit.
But anyone that has likeautoimmune issues that you know
has has been through some kindof metabolic strain of viral
load, things like that may seeamazing benefit, similar to like
having NAD IVs etc.
So it is an interestingcompound.
(31:39):
I wish we had more data on it.
I've had some really coolexperiences on it too, and I'll
have to try that stack as well.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah man, I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes
for you and I'll.
I'll pull this back to to myquestion, because you dropped a
whole lot there and your here'severything that Paris Anthony
does, and it may not beeneverything and it was a whole
lot of the value.
And what's your favorite thingthat you've found so far there,
(32:10):
like one like the biggest like,and for both you guys, what's
your favorite like?
Oh wow, that's really cool.
I didn't expect it to do thisand I'm really, really impressed
with this.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
For me I would say the top thing.
You know I've had COVID a fewtimes and I've battled speaking
of kind of mitochondrialdysfunction in the brain it's
called brain energy gap and I'vebattled some kind of like long
COVID memory brain issues.
(32:44):
That have been tough, you know,for a guy that's Taking all the
things and doing all the thingsright.
I'm still dealt with that.
And Anything that increases BDNFblood flow, decreases beta
amyloid plaque, like like neuroprotective I'm taking, I'm
(33:05):
exploring, like I've done work,obviously and if you've listened
to my work on psychedelics,like micro dosing, to your point
, methylene blue there's certaincompounds that I've explored,
like seven, eight,dihydroxyflavone and its
metabolite, anything.
A lot of the polyphenols haveBDNF impact and we're studying
(33:27):
chlorogenic acid with ParisAnthony actually right now.
So the fact that it's reallyprotecting my brain and and the
most important Marker of that tome is BDNF, that one's really
exciting to me, like I love amore energized day and making me
(33:48):
like kind of get more thingsdone in the day, but like I'm
hitting a point in my life whereit's like I need to protect
this thing.
Hmm this is.
This is my, not only my moneymaker, but it's my longevity and
my well-being for the rest ofmy life.
And I worked in nursing homesas a chief clinical dietitian
(34:08):
and I have seen the ravages ofAlzheimer's, dementia and
Parkinson's and all thesedifferent conditions and I can
tell you that you know this islike the health span lifespan
thing right, like where I.
I saw people live with thesediseases for 10, 15 years but
(34:28):
they didn't know who theirchildren were.
They didn't know what food theywere eating.
You know it's like, and to knowthat like I can have something
that's going to protect me andMake my brain work better and be
younger, like that's that's apowerful motivator for me and
(34:49):
like it makes me feel like I didnot expect to see anything.
I thought it was going to be anenergy ingredient.
You know I did tea, cream anddynamite right and so those are
very popular energy ingredients.
We didn't show any of this withthat.
I so the fact that it's doingthis stuff increasing blood flow
to the brain and, you know,improving antioxidant status to
(35:10):
the brain like that's just, it'smassive for me.
Not only massive for mepersonally, but it makes me feel
good about talking about thisingredient that it isn't a come
at a cost ingredient.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
It's an all bent, all win ingredient.
From everything I've heard andeverything I've experienced,
that's awesome.
I could feel the appreciationyou have for that.
That BDNF and everything.
That's very cool, Daniel.
Same question, man what's yourfavorite thing about
Paris-Anthony?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, I guess, as someone who's not as in tuned as
Sean is, and probably as youare, with all the different
things happening in my body andbeing able to recognize all the
different nuances, and assomeone who hasn't necessarily
experimented with every singlesupplement under the sun, I
(36:02):
think for me but it's funny like, irrespective of that, it's
really had a life changingexperience.
For me, I think, is in a numberof ways.
Firstly, I would call myselffour years ago somewhat of a
caffeine addict.
Like I'm sure many peoplelistening to this probably can
(36:22):
relate to, I would be havingcoffee from the moment I woke up
till 5 PM in the afternoon.
Part of it was because I feltthere was a reliance on it, Part
of it was because I liked thetaste.
But especially as it crept intothat afternoon series of
(36:43):
coffees, I definitely was hitwith not having a great night's
sleep.
I would kind of feel a bitjittery towards the end of the
day and my stomach would just bechurning.
So for me, what Parazanthine hasreally allowed me to do is wean
off and cut back my coffeeconsumption kind of all the way.
(37:09):
I have one in the morningbecause I like a hot drink in
the morning and it's kind of acoffee cools down faster than a
tea for me.
So I opt for the coffee and Ilike the smell etc.
But then I'm drinking one ortwo updates for the rest of the
day and being able to feel anoptimal sense of energy, almost
(37:31):
like that euphoric sense ofenergy you get from an Adderall,
but without the overstimulationthat a coffee would give you or
without.
Like you know, when you take anAdderall you feel like you have
these blinders that you don'twant to be social, but on the
flip side, Parazanthine actuallykind of drives your motivation
and mood.
So you know, to Sean's pointearlier he mentioned the word
(37:53):
swagger, which I know he's got apatent on that one but you
really feel like that and thenkind of the best part is you can
drink this later in the day andyou don't crash and it doesn't
disrupt your sleep.
And so from my perspective it'sbeen less about the specifics
around kind of brain health,blood health etc.
(38:15):
And more around how it'sallowed me to transform my
lifestyle in a way thatphysically I feel much healthier
.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I love that.
I love both those answers.
Gentlemen, we'll respect yourguys' time.
I promised I'd you know we wantto give you a buffer at the end
of this appointment so you guyshave time in your days.
Is there anything else fromeither that you feel like the
public needs to know aboutParazanthine?
I know we went deep here and ifthere's anything we missed and
any nuggets you want to drop,now's the time.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Sean, I don't know what you would say, but all I
would say is you know, when welaunched update, there was some
skepticism about it, and I thinkthere are two things to kind of
call out.
One, Parazanthine is not new,While it is new as a standalone
ingredient.
You know, anytime you drink acoffee, tea, energy drink, your
(39:14):
body's breaking down thatcaffeine into some part
Parazanthine.
And the second part is just tryit and you'll be able to feel
the difference.
And if you try it over a fewdays and then you actually go
back and have a cup of coffee,you'll notice how that coffee
(39:34):
doesn't feel clean anymore.
And so if you are skepticalwhatsoever, you know, just try
it.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I 100% agreed with Daniel Like that is the point to
end on is it's experiential.
You don't have to believe allthe science.
Like look into that after, justtry it and you'll feel the
difference first time.
And it's such a great point byDaniel that you'll go back and
(40:03):
have caffeine and realize howdirty and almost abusive it is.
Like you're addicted to it.
It's an addictive relationshipthat you have with it, similar
to sugar, and this is somethingthat will get you out of that
addiction and give you better,cleaner energy without the side
(40:25):
effects and protect your brain,like this.
Just it is an all win situationand it tastes good, so in this
product it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well said, where can the people find update?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Sure.
So I mean, firstly, you canread all about the science.
We have it on our website,drinkupdatecom.
You can also buy the productthere at drinkupdatecom, and
then you can also find us onAmazon.
Or if you're based in New York,we're in, you know, several
hundred retailers.
In LA we're in stores likeErwan mother's market and in
(40:58):
Austin at Alive and Well andSunlife Organics.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Beautiful, and where can the people find you guys?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
You can find myself or update you know Daniel
Solomon's underscore or atdrinkupdate, and then Sean.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, I'm at Sean Wells S-H-A-W-N-W-E-L-L-S, and
then you can go to Sean Wellscomas well and I have like a
weekly newsletter going throughall the supplement science and
my Instagram is loaded with coolinfographics and supplement
stacks and information aboutparazanthine and update and all
(41:39):
the things.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
You had a recent post about how big of a fan you are
of creatine, if I recallcorrectly.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Awesome.
And if you guys already haveyour phones out, go to
drinkupdatecom to order.
Use code Chase for 10% off.
Daniel Sean, thank you so muchfor being here.
I appreciate your time.
This has been a very mindexpanding and mind protecting
conversation.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks Hi Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi,hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi,
hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi Hi.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I need to see a new אני Scan� logo, a new label
Newimentos London, southampton,newillar, australia, haupt國家
Berlin, black and whiteno-transcript.
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