July 29, 2024 • 41 mins
Entrepreneurs, take note: Chad’s journey is a masterclass in resilience, authenticity, and the gritty reality of starting a purpose-driven business. From overcoming financial hurdles to shifting from a money-centric life to one of service and fulfillment, this episode offers valuable insights on personal growth and evolution. Explore how psychedelic therapy can serve as a mental reset and learn about the importance of responsible regulation in the ever-evolving landscape of mental health treatments. Join us for an episode that promises to inspire and enlighten, reminding us all that even in our darkest times, there is hope for better days ahead.
What happens when a life-altering experience transforms your lowest moment into your ultimate purpose? Discover how Chad McLean, founder of Mental Joe Apparel, turned his near-suicidal struggle into a mission-driven business advocating for mental health and plant medicine. Through a revelatory ketamine therapy session, Chad found his calling to support veterans and first responders, making Mental Joe Apparel a beacon of hope and resilience in the world of mental health.
Unravel the complexities of balancing masculine and feminine energies, and the intriguing interplay between heroism and villainy. We dive into thought-provoking discussions on the transformative power of psychedelics and the potential for societal change through collective psychedelic experiences. In our conversation, we ponder imaginative solutions for today's political and social divisions, emphasizing the need for strategic alliances and newfound perspectives.
Please please after you listen, go to mentaljoe.com and support the mission by picking up on of his amazing shirt or hat designs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
and we're back with chad mclean from metal joe
apparel dude.
We were talking a little bitbeforehand and I've known people
who started apparel companies.
One of my like we've had RobBailey on the podcast.
I mean Flag nor Fail,relatively successful apparel
company.
I really love the mission youhave going here.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Of course, brother, and fill the people in.
I could do it from memory.
You're going to do it a lotbetter.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so Chad with Mental Joe apparel.
Um, you know I always kind ofgive people the 10,000 foot
version of how I got here andmine was roughly four and a half
years ago.
Uh, almost took my life andsadly, like many other you know
veteran stories is.
You know I was popping pillsbecause my body hurt from a,
(01:07):
from a jump I had where it burntin and also coated that with
some alcohol and everything elseyou know and was on any kind of
SSRI you can imagine.
Through that experience, wentto inpatient for roughly a week.
I called to cuckoo Ben and wasthere for that solid week but
through that process actuallyhad time to slow down finally
and kind of look at things andtalked with my wife and said you
(01:28):
know, we've got to change this.
I can't be on pills the rest ofmy life.
I know, the way my brain isthinking through processes is
not right, like there's.
There's no way people thinklike this.
And through that process oftalking to her, she did some
research and jumped in and foundketamine.
And jumped in, started doingketamine and roughly the seventh
(01:48):
or eighth kind of ketaminesession had a vision, had an aha
moment, whatever.
Whatever label we want to puton those episodes.
And it was go start an apparelcompany.
And, quite candidly, I was incorporate real estate for almost
20 years and I love swag.
I've always been a swag guy, Ialways like nice stuff and I was
like why the hell are we doingapparel?
(02:09):
And then, slowly, as Icontinued this healing journey,
I kind of said, oh, this is whywe need to do it.
We need to talk aboutnon-traditional meaning,
psychedelics, and then we alsojust need to talk about mental
health on the daily.
You know, not once a year, on acertain month or a certain week
.
Let's have this daily so we canhave these communications.
And then the goal is, as webecome profitable, be like the
(02:32):
ranger up or be like the gruntstyle or be like the nine-line
apparel of the plant medicinespace for our veterans and our
first responders, and as webecome profitable, be able to,
you know, write those checks toretreats or ketamine clinics to
get those people the help theyneed.
Because, as we all know, inthis plant medicine space some
of these retreats are prettypricey, and same with ketamine
(02:54):
sessions.
So it's like, if we can holdthat burden for a lot of these
veterans and first respondersand your average Joe's that
can't afford it.
Let's make apparel be thatcatalyst, let's create a
community by our brand, and thenprofit for a purpose is kind of
where we're driven.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Profit for a purpose, and how much easier does that
make it for you, or how doesthat change the drive for you to
go out and create that profit?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
A lot.
I mean, I'm a one-man band,right.
So, and candidly, the old chadwould have quit this thing a
long time ago.
And there's a lot of lulls,there's a lot of debt.
I'm in, but I also realize it'spart of building the brand,
it's part of building chad 2.0and and going through this whole
entrepreneurial process.
So it's tough, right, becauseyou see, you see the balance
(03:47):
sheet, you're like shit, howmuch more of this can I take on?
But then I'll get an email fromsomebody out of nowhere saying
hey man, if it wasn't for youtalking up on a podcast or if it
wasn't for you having the coolshirt that I ran into somebody
at a concert, it's it would havesaved their life, right,
because then they went throughand they started ketamine, or
(04:07):
they went to Peru, or they wentto Mexico on some kind of plant
medicine and they came back.
And so then, right, it's likethe mycelium.
So then it just starts growingand more people are realizing
like you don't have to live inthe yuck as I call it of let me
pound my bottle of JD and let mepop my pills and go to sleep
because I don't know any otherway of living, because I'm not
(04:28):
taught another way Right?
The traditional way of mentalhealth is broken.
We all know it, but no onewants to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, we're fresh to the ship.
Some guys had taken me out rockclimbing at a gym in San Diego
and I fell off a bouldering walland laid myself up with a boot
on my ankle for like six weeksor something.
It was like it would have beenbetter to just break my ankle.
For like six weeks or something.
It was like it would have beenbetter to just break my ankle.
It was that bad right a sprain,you know.
And one night and this was anaha moment for me where my mom
(05:15):
got to say I told you.
So everything happens for areason.
Yada, yada, I'm late.
I'm in my barracks room laid upwith a boot on my ankle
drinking a bottle of JD tomyself and I'm like, well, maybe
when I get that tax-free moneyfrom that first deployment, I
won't go buy a new Camaro, I'llget another 80s car again.
So I sold my IROC to pay forLASIK and I get on the
(05:38):
thirdgenorg forums to look at80s Camaros, and first one 88
IROC, fresh paint, carbureted350.
I was like, oh, that's my kindof car.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I click on it.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
No, no, no, I click on it.
It's my car.
It was literally my car.
I sold, yeah, and that was myaha moment.
Well, one aha moment.
It took a few more to reallybeat me over the head with it.
Yeah, that, just stay on thepath.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Um, so, really hit, hit the nail on the head when
you're talking about a bottle ofJD, but yeah, and I think
that's the that's a case inpoint too is for me it's.
I love the ecosystem, right,but if we all pause and we zoom
out, there's, there's there'ssome weirdness to the plant
medicine space.
And for the average Joe, right,the guy that's in Kansas or
Oklahoma or Texas, whateverstate you want to put that
(06:34):
average Joe in they look in andthey're a little scared.
They might see the sciencebehind it and understand it, but
they're a little scared.
So I know I'm not everybody'scup of tea, right.
Like I hold this very likepro-american, you know 2a kind
of voice in this space and itdoesn't always resonate well
with people, but that's not whoI'm holding the space for.
(06:55):
I want to be here for thataverage joe.
Like you said that jd, likelet's just talk about it.
Like we know what we're doingbecause we we've all played in
this same rodeo for so long.
So let's just call it what itis and not beat around the bush
about it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Well, I mean, yeah, I showed you my hoppy applicator
before we started and I'll showyou my, my gift from my late
brother that I have on my desk.
Yes, absolutely, I'm rightthere with you, not not at the
same time.
Don't, don't, don't take threegrams of mushrooms and then
handle a loaded firearm.
Correct, correct, yeah, and Iwould love to hear you open that
(07:34):
up a bit more, because I'mright there with you.
That there's.
You know, if we go too far,austin, texas, with it, so to
speak, it can deter a lot ofpeople, agreed, agreed and it
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Agreed, agreed, and it deterred me.
I mean, at the end of the day,I mean I'm a Montana kid, I grew
up in Montana, I was a derrickkid in high school that traveled
to the elementary schools withcops and say no to drugs and the
whole nine yards Right.
And so for 20 years, like Isaid, for 20 years I was on some
kind of pain pill that you knowI self-medicated with on top of
alcohol, on top of some kind ofSSRI to keep me stable.
(08:08):
I didn't know there was anotherway until that gun was at the
head, tension on the trigger,breathe in, exhale, whatever you
want to call it.
One second or the other way,it's done, it's game over, right
.
And it just came to myrealization of how many other
millions of average Joes are outthere struggling with this
stuff because they don't knowthere's another way.
(08:31):
Or they see again, put thelabel on it.
You see, the hippie communityand they're like I don't really
want blue hair and a piercednose and dreads and I'm not
interested, you know.
So it removes them to eventhink that they're going to, you
know, jump into this to healthemselves, right.
So that's where it's like, man,we just we have to talk about
(08:51):
this as a community all acrossand not worry about, you know,
the stigmatized this behind thisindustry.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I guess you'd say yeah, and you know, luckily for
that purpose.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
there I mean even correct me if I'm wrong, even
the VA is starting to see thevalue of psychedelics for
veterans.
Mental health A hundred percent.
And what drives me nuts and I'mglad you said that is I'm
actually heading out toWashington DC.
I believe it's next week.
We're just waiting on flightand hotel stuff, but we're
(09:24):
flying out to DC to fight forthe ability for MDMA for PTSD.
The studies are there, wealready know it.
The federal government shouldbe making a decision on whether
they're going to legalize MDMAfor those therapies within the
next three weeks.
So there's this mad rush andeveryone's going to DC or their
state representatives to pushthis stuff because it's there,
(09:48):
like the independent research isthere.
Unfortunately, we have to playthis game and jump through the
FDA and all these other hoopsand their schedule ones and it's
like no, you see these veteransthat had massive TBI issues and
willing to take their lives,and now they're telling you like
, hey, I don't want to go toPeru to go through an ayahuasca
ceremony.
I'd rather go to said state andhold that space there as
(10:11):
opposed to going to anothercountry.
So we have to.
I think we have to take thisstuff head on and the veterans
and your first responders arereally starting to make some
noise on it and that's just it,the VA.
There's some VAs that areactually approving ketamine.
There are some VAs that arelooking into doing MDMA therapy
right at the VA hospital, butit's so sporadic, right, it's
(10:34):
certain VAs in certain statesand there's no real rhyme or
reason, what they're doing orwho they're using.
Or you know, here's someSpravato and Spravato is okay,
but, like to me, the goldstandard is either IV or
intermuscular.
If you're doing ketamine, ifyou really you're going to get
deep into it, you mean there'sinefficiencies in how the
(10:55):
government's operating?
Never right.
The $2,000 hammer, as they callit, you know it's.
I mean it's ridiculous.
So it's, you know it, it's.
We need the government's helpto move some of this stuff
forward.
But at the same time, it's likethere's so much red tape that
it's just like you know theirbuddies in the pharmaceutical
industries are waiting on the,on the sideline, because you
(11:16):
have pharmaceutical industriesthat are already looking on how
do they create syntheticpsilocybin I.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I just saw the clip of Huberman talking about this.
Yes, I actually responded.
It was Mark that sent it to me.
I responded it's like oh well,it took them long enough.
That's been their MO for thelast hundred years.
Let's isolate something out of,and this will be where the
(11:43):
hippies start going.
Yeah, let's isolate somethingout of them.
This will be where the hippiesstart going.
Yeah, like let's isolatesomething out of a plant that's
super effective, but onlyisolate that thing and not the
other, like symphony that issupposed to be played with it.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Exactly, yep, exactly , and so that's, I mean that's
where it's going to get grossand you're starting to see that.
And you know again I don't knowthe whole backstory, but you
know you've got maps right Withwith Lycos.
It just injected a hundredmillion dollars into that and
you know maps has got most ofthe studies done on that
(12:16):
independently, with all theresearch and the brain scans and
things of that nature.
But same thing is holistic, asmaps is there, you know they're.
They're partnering up with somepharmaceutical companies so
they can get certain agendas andthings passed, which is great.
But same thing Now you'rebellied up to the bear of the
pharmaceutical industry.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
How's the quote go?
You either die a hero or livelong enough to see yourself
become a villain.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yep 100% and you're seeing that You're seeing people
in the community just lashingout at maps when they can't just
zoom out and understand, Likesadly, you've got to make some
of these partnerships tocontinue to push that forward,
because some of those peoplehave the connections you need to
get these things passed, youknow so yeah, it's unfortunate,
(12:59):
right, because you'd like theworld to be what you want it to
be?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, because you'd like the world to be what you
want it to be, yeah.
And one of my favoritedefinitions of enlightenment is
to be able to see the world asit actually is.
Love that, yeah, just simplifyit right, underthink it, yeah.
And to me, these psychedelics,when applied correctly, and take
, know, take the, we'll call itthe masculine and the feminine
(13:27):
and blend it and meet in themiddle, yes, they allow us to,
to see reality as it actually is100 and I think that's I mean,
that's beautifully put.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You know, I think everyone's so scared to.
You know, try to understandthat feminine energy and the
masculine energy, and, hey, youcan have a little bit of both.
Like it's the the jo Joe Roganquote, slash quote across the
board.
You know, I'd rather be awarrior in a garden than a
gardener in a war, right, likeyou need to have a little bit of
that both.
You can still have the softside and the caring side and the
(13:56):
understanding of, you know,your wife or that other feminine
energy.
Right, you can understand themfrom a better point of view, but
nothing says you still can't bea badass and have the ability
to choke the shit out ofsomebody if you need to, right,
I mean just because you domushrooms or you're in plant
medicine.
It doesn't mean you have theability that you can't slap the
shit out of someone if it'sneeded.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I mean the.
The Viking berserkers were someof the biggest proponents of
mushrooms Like let's go, yeah,absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But yeah, I mean it's , you gotta have a balance.
I think it's like you said, Ithink it's all a balance of
bringing it all together, Likewe can do that more as a
community, and that's what we'retrying to do with our brand,
Like hey we understand thewarrior aspect of it, but let's
soften it up too.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, look at the shirt you have on right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It's got a grenade and then a Amunet and Muscaria
on it, like it's the combinationExactly Like you have the power
to explode, but you also havethe willingness and wisdom to
hold tight if you need to youknow, I just don't think we're
so divided again.
Given everything that's happenedin the last week and a half in
(15:03):
this freaking country, I meanit's wild.
It's just sad that we can'tzoom out and pause and slow down
a little bit and realize like,regardless of your left or right
thought processes, we're allstill in the United States of
America, we're all still acommunity and we need to get
back there and realize what's,what's the big goal at task here
(15:23):
.
Otherwise, just like said, youknow, this country is going to
shit in a handbasket, but I alsobelieve psychedelics is is
rearing its head up at the righttime to ask it.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But I also believe psychedelics is is rearing its
head up at the right time too.
You know, I I said to, I'vesaid to some of our mutual
acquaintances before that, uh,if we could just aerosolize 5meo
dmt and and dust the, thecapitals of the world, yep, we
would likely solve a lot of it,because you'd either bring them
(15:53):
around or you'd break them.
And at this point, like I'm all, I'm all for consent.
And at this point, like, justjust dose all the politicians,
let's sort it out on the otherside.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Dude, I'm right there with you.
I've, I've me and my wife jokeabout it.
I'm like man, if we could finda way to like, just you know,
like you said, aerialize it.
You know, chemical chemtrails,whatever you want to call it,
conspiracy theories, Right, butI'm like God, even some MDMA
just to calm these people down,so they can communicate in a way
that adults should communicate,Like we'd be, in a way, better
(16:25):
place, you know, and that's youknow again, as we, as we become
a larger brand and we're we gotwe a lot of room to grow.
That, I mean, that's kind of thething is.
I want to be that voice of likestirring the pot, you know.
I'd like to be able to call outCongress people and say, hey,
we got retreats for you.
Let us know if you want to comesit.
We got your plane ticket ready.
You know cause they need to gothrough that stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
A hundred percent I I mean as well as term limits and
all of that if we could sayokay, we, the people, elect you
on the condition that you can gosit through this and still want
to do this job on the backside.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yep, agreed, I like that.
I like that.
It would slow a lot of peopledown real quick and they'd make
them think before they grab acheck from somebody if that's
the right thing to do or not.
Oh geez we could go down a wholerevolving door rabbit hole here
today.
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's like me.
I mean I.
I look at it from a verysimplistic approach, like, like
you said, I was in corporatereal estate for almost 20 years,
(17:23):
prior to doing mental joe, andI was all about the money.
I was all about the close rate.
I was always a one or three topperformer in any division.
I was in real estate.
I just killed it.
I was really good at it.
I was a negotiator from helland it was all about money.
How much more money can I bringin the door?
Now, like you know, I don't wantto say I'm broke as a joke, but
(17:44):
I've got debt up to my eyeballs.
I'm the happiest I've ever been.
Like I'm not worried about themoney.
I know I'm not worried aboutthe money.
I know I'm on the right path.
I know things are coming aroundthe corner so I can set with
that debt and realize, okay,it's part of running a business.
You're always going to havesome kind of debt over your head
.
How do you manage it?
How do you push forward?
What's the different ways tothink outside the box, to bring
(18:05):
money in so you can grow towhere before, like I said,
everything was about money.
For me, money, money, money,money.
Now I'm like no, I, I want toserve, I want to help people, I
want people to live how I feel,like I'm living now, like I'm
finally coming to the truefoundation of who chad mclean is
.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know what is that foundation?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
man.
For me it's.
It's getting back to that goofykid that was in high school.
That didn't give a shit whatanyone thought of him.
Like I was that.
Like I wasn't the top tierathlete.
Like I was good but I wasn'tgreat.
I was poor as hell.
I was raised in a single familyhome.
My dad was an abusive alcoholic.
Um, I was the middle kid of ofan older brother, younger sister
and but I was always that goofykid.
(18:48):
I was a kid that dressed up forspirit week, right, and I would
come to school and people werelike, ooh, what's Chad wearing
on Wednesday for nerd day?
What's?
What's he bringing to the table, you know?
So I really feel I'm kind ofgetting back to that guy.
That's just kind of jovial.
People liked me for my energy,my vibe, and they didn't care if
I was the so-called tough guythat I brought to the table
(19:09):
because I thought I had to havethat coming out of the military,
you know, and bar fight andeverything else that came with
it Like.
I'm really coming back to thattrue center of caring for others
and wanting others to succeed.
And how can I be part of thatand how can I uplift them?
And through doing that, myplate, my tank, my cup, it all
gets full because I know whatI'm doing is the right thing and
(19:31):
it just feels right, as opposedto giving the money grab.
And let me see how I can stepon your throat to get that extra
two K on this bonus this month.
So I'm like who I was fouryears ago.
Today I'm two different people,two different people.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Do you see that evolution continuing the next
four years?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I do, I do.
And now I can see it.
Now, like failures, right, likeeveryone's scared of trying
something or doing somethingoutside their comfort zone Right
, because ego.
And they're really, reallyscared of the failure process,
right, well, I'm not going to begood at that, so I'm not going
to try it.
And I had that mentality Likeright now you see a guitar over
my shoulder, my wife bought itfor me, just haven't had the
(20:13):
time.
But same thing, like I'm notdead yet.
Like why wouldn't I want tolearn to play guitar?
So I'm going to get lessons.
Or why, like, one of my goalsis I would like to do an Ironman
and so I'm working towards that.
But I can't just jump out thegate and go run 26 miles and
bike 105 without even trying.
Right, so process steps.
(20:34):
What other glass ceilings can Ibreak to continue the evolution
of chad 2.0?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
well are you familiar with joseph campbell's hero's
journey I?
am yeah, okay, cool, I had afeeling somebody in within the
psychedelic space and, knowingthe unlifted coaches, you do,
you, you might have ran intothat along the way.
Uh, to me, the hero's journeyit's all.
It's a upward.
So you get back into theordinary world, but you're
starting the new evolution fromthe top, from a little higher,
(21:04):
and it spins upward.
And the one of the biggestfollies to use a little alan
watts language that one of thebiggest follies in existence use
a little Alan Watts language.
One of the biggest follies inexistence, as far as I'm
concerned, is to think that wedo a revolution or two of the
hero's journey and then we getto stop.
No, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Keep going, Keep going.
That circle just gets wider andbigger and then everything that
you're learning is falling intothe middle, but you're still
accumulating as that grows, andthat's how I feel.
I call them glass ceilings,right, Like the guy I look.
I mean, I was almost 280 poundsand you can see a picture on my
Instagram feed.
(21:43):
I pinned it to the top just asa reminder to me every time I
open up my feed.
I was huge.
I was a fat kid in a littlecoat man no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
it meant a paradigm shift, so I'm just going to stay
here until something hits mehard enough to force that.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, I think so and I think that's the bucket
everyone kind of stays in, right?
They're scared.
They know there's probablyanother thing they can do, but
they're scared why?
Because it's ego it all comesback to.
Well, if I fail, people arethinking I'm a loser or I'm dumb
, or I shouldn't have tried it,or whatever continual voice
repetitiveness we want to put inour head toward now it's like
(22:56):
no, I'm okay failing, and if youhave a problem with that,
that's on you, because at leastI'm trying, at least I'm trying
to create a better path formyself and and testing the water
and see what I'm good or bad at.
And if I'm bad at it, okay, Ineed to put more reps, perhaps
in that arena as something thatI'm really good at over here.
You know it's time management.
(23:16):
Where do you want to go withthis stuff?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Well, and talking about getting better at it, like
, did you or I or anybodylistening, ride their two-wheel
bike perfectly the first time?
They did it as a kid.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
No way.
There's no way in hell.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, for some reason I mean whether you know fitness
people have started to comearound on fitness and you've got
to do it for a while.
This entrepreneurial game,right?
Yeah, people think that it'sgoing to happen right away.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And I was one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I figured I put a little bit of work in.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
It's supposed to happen because I got this really
cool idea.
There's lots of cool ideas outthere, but you actually have to
put in the reps to make thatidea come alive.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
What's a good batting average in the major leagues?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Probably major leagues.
You're probably.
260 to 320 is a good battingaverage.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You're on base one of every three to four times 100%.
How often does that persongetting on base end up coming
all the way around and crossinghome plate?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Not too often.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
How often does anyone in the major leagues actually
hit a home run?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
even smaller, even smaller of a window and it's and
I love that you bring thisanalogy up.
I know where you're going andI'll let you finish.
But the reason I'm gonna jumpin real quick is my my oldest
son, connor, is like he's gottensuper addicted to baseball.
Like he will come home, hewatches it.
We go outside and we areplaying catch at least an hour
to hour and a half a day and Idon't force it.
(24:54):
But where I want to go with thisis where I'm changed mentally
as I talk to him about thefailures of baseball and I tell
him like buddy, like you'regoing to strike out more than
you're going to be on base.
Or hey, buddy, you're going tostrike up more than you're going
to hit a home run.
And guess what?
You're going to strike up morethan you're going to hit a home
run.
And guess what?
You're going to get hit by theball plenty of times.
You're going to catch one inthe chin when it hops up from
(25:14):
shortstop and it's going to hurtlike a son of a bitch.
But I promise you breathethrough it and that hurt will go
away within a couple of minutes.
It's going to suck, don't getme wrong.
It's going to suck.
So for me, that's the othermental change.
Now I look to coach to thefailures, as opposed dude, why
aren't you hitting the ball?
What are you doing?
(25:35):
This Catch it like this.
No, he's 7.
He's learning the process, buthe's going to fail a hell of a
lot more than he's going tosucceed.
So baseball analogy Spot on.
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
How old are you?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I will be 47 this fall.
47.
Cool, how old are you?
I will be 47 this fall 47.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Cool, how old are you in relation to being an
entrepreneur, like in the, inthe, in the apparel industry?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh man, I'm two and a half years, I'm young, I'm
super young, and I know it takes, you know, at least five to six
years to build a successfulcompany.
And I what it was the stat ittakes takes 10 to 15 years to
build an olympic athlete, youknow.
So, just like, if you can pauseand realize, like you're in
this shit, you're gonna be inthis shit for a while and it's
(26:20):
gonna suck, it's okay.
But, like you said, people wantthat instant gratification.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
One of my business partners in acquisition.
We own a HVAC and plumbingcompany in northwestern PA and
he sent myself and one of ourother partners and I forget
which CEO of which nine-figurecompany it was.
The quote was excellence is theability to withstand pain.
(26:49):
Ooh I like that.
And he went on to say that Icould tell you all the rags to
riches and pump myself up, butwhat gets left out is the times
that I went home feeling like afailure, with no money in the
account, and my wife looked atme.
What gets left out is the timesthat I went home feeling like a
failure, with no money in theaccount, and my wife looked at
(27:10):
me wondering if she still wantedto be with this man.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's real man and it's the stuff that you know.
You get the the hustle pornguys out here that they're like
oh, go hard, go hard, go hard.
They're so far removed from thebeginning of their journey that
they'll talk about wanting like, oh, you got to stick it out,
(27:39):
you got to do this, but itdoesn't land because these guys
have these eight and nine figurecompanies and they like well,
you just got to keep going.
It's like.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It's like um, somebody who never lost weight
at all trying to coach somebodythrough 100 pound weight loss
yeah, yeah, exactly, and I feel,and I feel that because I'm in
this journey, like I said, youknow, four years ago I was
almost 280 pounds, yeah, youknow, and I am the guy that it
(28:08):
fell on deaf ears because youhear joe rogan and he throws
some good tidbits in there, but,right, the mind of man
immediately goes well, rogan,you're a fucking
multi-millionaire stand-upcomedian.
But what I like about rogan ishe does still talk about his
failures and all the shit jobshe had and how many times he
bombed on stage.
And so when he started talkingabout the negative aspects and
(28:29):
the failures, that's when I waslike, oh, this dude puts in a
lot of reps and he understandswhat it takes to be successful.
Like you're saying, some ofthese guys and gals out there
are just got to push through,you got to go, go, go.
And it's like whoa like, talkmore about the failures.
What got you to the success?
Whoa like, talk more about thefailures.
What got you to the success?
Because the poor guy like methat's struggling, like I can't
(28:49):
see where it's successful,because you're telling me, like
it was just hop, skipping a jump, and you were there.
That's not the case.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
No, not at all.
I I uh hi.
I ran a brick and mortarfitness facility through COVID.
Oh my God.
Talk about shooting your otherfoot off then they say hey, do
you want this six-figure loan?
It's basically, it's a mortgage, it's a three, it's a 30 year,
(29:17):
three percent loan.
Uh, do you want it?
We'll just give it to you.
Oh yeah, sure, my gym isn'taround anymore, but that loan
still is, you know.
So it's something to be saidthat, and especially on this
podcast, which the working name,you know my podcast was called
the Primal man podcast beforeRiverside still says that the
(29:38):
working name right now is startand scale as we move towards
still talking about what we weretalking about, talking about
business too, though, yep, andit's something that I'm aiming
to highlight a lot on here,which is why I pointed the
conversation this way, and I'mglad you you had so much to say
about it just now, because inthe internet age of everybody
(30:00):
can be a millionaire, you justneed to want to be an
entrepreneur Like yeah.
Do you have the gumption tostick it out for five years?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
yeah, that's just it and I think that it's not talked
about.
And it's just the same thinglike mental health or
psychedelics.
It's not talked about in a realjust meat and potatoes kind of
an attitude yeah as opposed towe're all gonna win, you're all
millionaires and if you put itout in the universe, it'll
happen.
Well, maybe, but you still haveto put some foot forward.
You still got to grind, youstill got to do some shit Like
(30:32):
you can't just wish it right ona piece of paper to stick it on
the wall and it's going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
You mean your, uh, your ketamine therapy didn't
create a million dollar businessjust from that one session.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
No, I wish it did, but God damn, I'm still grinding
.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Well, and for the hard chargers that are still
listening, would you say thatpsychedelics gives you more
clarity on the ability to keepdriving effort towards a pointed
goal.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I do, I do, man.
I look at psychedelics now asthe same thing.
I'm 47.
I just started getting on TRTfor, you know, testosterone
replacement for people thataren't aware of that.
But like I look at it likepsychedelics as being kind of a
TRT for the brain For me.
It's, you know, I do it everysix months, you know, and it's
(31:20):
like a control op elite for me,because you get into the daily
grind, grind, grind, go, go, goand your head's down and you're
trying to do all these differentthings and wearing 30 different
hats.
But at the end of that sixmonths I'm at a point of like
I'm burnt out.
I'm not sure what else I can do.
I'm doing everything the bestof my ability at 12 hours a day,
in my sleep and, you know, likeif it was a real job.
But then I'll go through thatpsychedelic experience I.
(31:44):
But then I'll go through thatpsychedelic experience.
I'll come out and like there'sthis weight has been lifted,
there's a pause, there is aclarity of oh, we can pivot at X
, y and Z to free up this time,to add to, you know, social
media or a different t-shirt,whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, when you unsync the two hemispheres of the
brain for a couple hours and letthem kind of do their thing and
then come back together, well,all of a sudden, new ideas come
up.
The when was the whether?
Whether it's yours or somebodyelse's?
What's the earliest time thatyou remember like, oh wow,
psychedelics have an impact onsomebody?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I mean, for me it was .
I would probably say it was mythird or fourth ketamine session
.
You know roughly again fouryears ago, excuse me, but it it
was so good that I rememberwalking in my backyard and it
was at night and just seeing mybackyard completely destroyed
Cause I got two young boys andI'm OCD to the max and coming
(32:41):
around the corner and looking atthat and going, oh, that's a
mess.
But like it's a mess now andthey're boys and they're going
to screw stuff up and they'regoing to rip things apart.
And just I remembered at thatmoment pausing and thinking, oh
shit, like this was what it'slike to be present.
Like, oh, I've always heardpeople say you got to be present
(33:03):
, but I was like, be present,I've got 40 fucking things going
on in my head right now.
I don't understand what beingpresent means.
And so I I understood very earlythat psychedelics is a way to
really calm the nervous system.
If you're willing to deal withit and again, I'm no advocate
for you know, let's, let's godown to the 7-eleven and go get
(33:25):
johnny the shaman that's off at6 and go in the alley and take
this shit I'm all about.
You've got to have a good setand setting and you've got to
have some intention.
You need to be able to growwith these things.
If you're just doing it, to doit, okay, whatever, but you're
not going to move forward.
You're going to stay in thatpattern.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, I'm glad you highlighted that and this.
There's people across thespectrum and I've I've witnessed
some people who are like, oh,the medicine, the medicine, the
man like you know you're, you'regoing and you're getting high
with your friends and partyingwith your friends and you're
calling it the medicine.
You're sitting with themedicine once a month, like call
(34:06):
it what it, what it is, likethat's cool, like that's your
form of going and drinkingtequila once a month, like
that's good for you.
Yeah, you know, I remember Iwas dude that 88 Camaro I had.
I'd walk into school smellinglike cigarettes and a joint.
And there was one of my buddieshad gotten kicked out of his
parents' house.
He was sleeping on a buddy'sbedroom.
(34:27):
He ate a few grams of mushrooms.
Woke up the next morning, wentand applied for a job, got a job
, moved back into his parents'house.
That was, I mean, you know, 18,17, 18 years old.
There's something to be saidfor the fact that this stuff's
been around for as long as it'sbeen around and continues having
(34:48):
the effects it has.
Have you read, um, theimmortality key?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I've heard of it.
I have not read it.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Okay, highly recommend.
Okay, I mean talking about the,the psychedelic uh ceremonies
of old, the mysteries of aLucius and the ergot that they
found in skulls there.
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I mean, it's been around.
And again, if you want to godown more rabbit holes, you, you
, you realize certain religionswere whacking shamans and people
of of tribes, that they weretheir medicine people, Right,
because they knew this stuffworked way back then you know.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
I, because they knew this stuff worked way back then.
I mean, do we want to talkabout how there's mushrooms in
Christian art right up until thepoint of Spanish Inquisition,
when government interjecteditself into a religion?
Yep, and that's the rabbit holeI'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I mean, we have a couple designs that we're kind
of sitting on that eventually wewant to release where it's
literally that it's the one Iforget.
I think it's like in germany,up in, yeah, in saint petersburg
or something like that I wantto say, but like in one of the
very big glass windows, it'sjesus at the top and then it's
all of these mushrooms that areon the side, and so it's like
(36:03):
same thing, and then you, youcan go down the rabbit hole of
you know, St Nick and hisreindeer eating the Amaskari,
Like if you want to open up thebook.
the book is there.
You just got to be willing togo read it.
Now are they all maybe fairytales or yeah, but it's.
(36:28):
You know, when you're going toa church that's thousands of
years old and they've got thispane glass window with mushrooms
and Jesus in the same thing,you kind of wonder a little bit,
you know, yeah, yeah, just alittle bit.
I mean to have the connection tothe thing that intimately yeah,
yeah it's there and I thinkthere's a lot to be said.
(36:50):
And again we'll just go back towhere the world is kind of on
fire right now.
There is shit going on anywhere.
If you just pay attention alittle bit and get away from the
mainstream media and just zoomout, things are wild right now,
real wild, and you can kind offeel a weird shift.
Like I said, I think there's areason where there's a
resurgence of maybe thepsychedelic.
(37:11):
So now it's the people that areleading.
The biggest charge on this areyour veterans, and there goes
your warrior in the guardmentality, right like you've got
the pipe hitters.
But they also want to reachthat softer side because they're
sick of living in the bottleand they're sick of living in
pills and they're they're tiredof seeing their brothers and
sisters eat a bullet.
You know, I mean, the ratio iswhat?
(37:32):
20 to 44 a day are taking theirlives.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Well, and think about this from before the Industrial
Revolution.
Let's say, like, how wouldveterans or warriors of old have
healed?
Yeah, what was the medicineavailable to them?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Alcohol right, I mean , there wasn't really much there
.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I mean even go alcohol and even a little
further back, like psychedelicswere likely available there.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Correct, if we go with like indigenous Native
American, like they had, theyhad peyote, they had mesclun,
you know yeah, and and they inagain going through the history
books, they, they would assistthe, the gringo, the white man
with that, you know, and samething.
And that's where you would getsome of your, your guys, leaving
(38:23):
cities to go live with tribes,because they kind of saw things
in a different aspect.
So I mean, it's there.
It's just.
I think a lot of this stuff hasbeen hidden for years.
A lot of people talk about itin a negative context, like so,
like I said, we're fighting toget some of this stuff off a
schedule one.
I think marijuana, cannabis isgetting at a point where I think
it's going to be rescheduled asa Schedule 3 by the federal
(38:47):
government.
I think the paperwork is on thedesk per se, but we're finally
getting there with cannabis.
So I think all this stuff'skind of making its way through
and it's the voices and thepeople that hold a heavy stick
that the government's going tolook at and say, oh, our
warriors are asking for this.
A heavy stick that thegovernment's going to look at
(39:07):
and say, oh, our warriors areasking for this.
Maybe it's kind of hard to sayno to a guy or gal that's going
out there and serving yourcountry to say hey, I need some
help mentally and it needs to bedone here in the States as
opposed to going to Peru.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, you know, and it would be nice.
I love the cannabis has come asfar as it has and it'd be nice
to see that industry get back tothe standards around that,
around that plant that thatgrowers had, that cultivators
had to start with.
You know from the people thatI've known inside the industry
(39:38):
that you know talk about themold that just gets passed by
and overlooked, or you know it's, it's rough man, and again it's
like where's the line of like?
Okay, now this stuff'savailable, now the quality's
slipping, like where do we, howdo we find that balance?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
well, I mean that again.
I think that's where you haveto marry in a little bit of the
regulatory industry.
You know, like you've got to doit, but you can't do it like
the fda where they're, you knowthey're telling you freaking
cheetos in of Froot Loops isbetter than steak and eggs.
Like you can't.
You can't be having people justhand over fist getting checks
just to make a statement to toget something on the dinner
(40:18):
table.
Right.
Like you, you've got to have atrue regulatory industry that
leads, I think, with heart andthe right thought process, which
is, which is, almost impossiblegiven.
I think, with heart and theright thought process, which is
almost impossible, given theshit that we're in now.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, 100%, Chad brother, we could go for two
hours and we'll make the peoplego find you if they want to hear
more of you.
Where can they find you?
I love it.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I mean like Google, right, and the
algorithms.
I always tell people just putin Mental Joe Apparel and they
go Google search.
But we've got a presence onFacebook, instagram, we just we
just did the tick talk thing.
I don't know how long that'sgoing to go with the good old
government stuff.
But you know, we're we're young, we're growing, but our, our
biggest, our biggest is is onInstagram, but it's mental Joe
(41:01):
apparel and then our website,just mental joecom, is where
they can come find us.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Love it.
If there's one thing for thepeople who leave this
conversation remembering, whatis it?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Realize that tomorrow's a better day, man,
like you're going to have yourups, your downs, your ebbs and
your flows, but if you can pause, realize that the day the shit
that you're in, the bad attitude, that the stuff that's
happening to you, stop, pause,take a look at, zoom out and say
why is it happening to me?
Speaker 1 (41:32):
And tomorrow's a better day, there are better
choices or other things to getdone out there.
Love it.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Appreciate you, man.
Thank you so much.
and we're back with chad mclean from metal joe
apparel dude.
We were talking a little bitbeforehand and I've known people
who started apparel companies.
One of my like we've had RobBailey on the podcast.
I mean Flag nor Fail,relatively successful apparel
company.
I really love the mission youhave going here.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Of course, brother, and fill the people in.
I could do it from memory.
You're going to do it a lotbetter.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so Chad with Mental Joe apparel.
Um, you know I always kind ofgive people the 10,000 foot
version of how I got here andmine was roughly four and a half
years ago.
Uh, almost took my life andsadly, like many other you know
veteran stories is.
You know I was popping pillsbecause my body hurt from a,
(01:07):
from a jump I had where it burntin and also coated that with
some alcohol and everything elseyou know and was on any kind of
SSRI you can imagine.
Through that experience, wentto inpatient for roughly a week.
I called to cuckoo Ben and wasthere for that solid week but
through that process actuallyhad time to slow down finally
and kind of look at things andtalked with my wife and said you
(01:28):
know, we've got to change this.
I can't be on pills the rest ofmy life.
I know, the way my brain isthinking through processes is
not right, like there's.
There's no way people thinklike this.
And through that process oftalking to her, she did some
research and jumped in and foundketamine.
And jumped in, started doingketamine and roughly the seventh
(01:48):
or eighth kind of ketaminesession had a vision, had an aha
moment, whatever.
Whatever label we want to puton those episodes.
And it was go start an apparelcompany.
And, quite candidly, I was incorporate real estate for almost
20 years and I love swag.
I've always been a swag guy, Ialways like nice stuff and I was
like why the hell are we doingapparel?
(02:09):
And then, slowly, as Icontinued this healing journey,
I kind of said, oh, this is whywe need to do it.
We need to talk aboutnon-traditional meaning,
psychedelics, and then we alsojust need to talk about mental
health on the daily.
You know, not once a year, on acertain month or a certain week
.
Let's have this daily so we canhave these communications.
And then the goal is, as webecome profitable, be like the
(02:32):
ranger up or be like the gruntstyle or be like the nine-line
apparel of the plant medicinespace for our veterans and our
first responders, and as webecome profitable, be able to,
you know, write those checks toretreats or ketamine clinics to
get those people the help theyneed.
Because, as we all know, inthis plant medicine space some
of these retreats are prettypricey, and same with ketamine
(02:54):
sessions.
So it's like, if we can holdthat burden for a lot of these
veterans and first respondersand your average Joe's that
can't afford it.
Let's make apparel be thatcatalyst, let's create a
community by our brand, and thenprofit for a purpose is kind of
where we're driven.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Profit for a purpose, and how much easier does that
make it for you, or how doesthat change the drive for you to
go out and create that profit?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
A lot.
I mean, I'm a one-man band,right.
So, and candidly, the old chadwould have quit this thing a
long time ago.
And there's a lot of lulls,there's a lot of debt.
I'm in, but I also realize it'spart of building the brand,
it's part of building chad 2.0and and going through this whole
entrepreneurial process.
So it's tough, right, becauseyou see, you see the balance
(03:47):
sheet, you're like shit, howmuch more of this can I take on?
But then I'll get an email fromsomebody out of nowhere saying
hey man, if it wasn't for youtalking up on a podcast or if it
wasn't for you having the coolshirt that I ran into somebody
at a concert, it's it would havesaved their life, right,
because then they went throughand they started ketamine, or
(04:07):
they went to Peru, or they wentto Mexico on some kind of plant
medicine and they came back.
And so then, right, it's likethe mycelium.
So then it just starts growingand more people are realizing
like you don't have to live inthe yuck as I call it of let me
pound my bottle of JD and let mepop my pills and go to sleep
because I don't know any otherway of living, because I'm not
(04:28):
taught another way Right?
The traditional way of mentalhealth is broken.
We all know it, but no onewants to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, we're fresh to the ship.
Some guys had taken me out rockclimbing at a gym in San Diego
and I fell off a bouldering walland laid myself up with a boot
on my ankle for like six weeksor something.
It was like it would have beenbetter to just break my ankle.
For like six weeks or something.
It was like it would have beenbetter to just break my ankle.
It was that bad right a sprain,you know.
And one night and this was anaha moment for me where my mom
(05:15):
got to say I told you.
So everything happens for areason.
Yada, yada, I'm late.
I'm in my barracks room laid upwith a boot on my ankle
drinking a bottle of JD tomyself and I'm like, well, maybe
when I get that tax-free moneyfrom that first deployment, I
won't go buy a new Camaro, I'llget another 80s car again.
So I sold my IROC to pay forLASIK and I get on the
(05:38):
thirdgenorg forums to look at80s Camaros, and first one 88
IROC, fresh paint, carbureted350.
I was like, oh, that's my kindof car.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I click on it.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
No, no, no, I click on it.
It's my car.
It was literally my car.
I sold, yeah, and that was myaha moment.
Well, one aha moment.
It took a few more to reallybeat me over the head with it.
Yeah, that, just stay on thepath.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Um, so, really hit, hit the nail on the head when
you're talking about a bottle ofJD, but yeah, and I think
that's the that's a case inpoint too is for me it's.
I love the ecosystem, right,but if we all pause and we zoom
out, there's, there's there'ssome weirdness to the plant
medicine space.
And for the average Joe, right,the guy that's in Kansas or
Oklahoma or Texas, whateverstate you want to put that
(06:34):
average Joe in they look in andthey're a little scared.
They might see the sciencebehind it and understand it, but
they're a little scared.
So I know I'm not everybody'scup of tea, right.
Like I hold this very likepro-american, you know 2a kind
of voice in this space and itdoesn't always resonate well
with people, but that's not whoI'm holding the space for.
(06:55):
I want to be here for thataverage joe.
Like you said that jd, likelet's just talk about it.
Like we know what we're doingbecause we we've all played in
this same rodeo for so long.
So let's just call it what itis and not beat around the bush
about it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Well, I mean, yeah, I showed you my hoppy applicator
before we started and I'll showyou my, my gift from my late
brother that I have on my desk.
Yes, absolutely, I'm rightthere with you, not not at the
same time.
Don't, don't, don't take threegrams of mushrooms and then
handle a loaded firearm.
Correct, correct, yeah, and Iwould love to hear you open that
(07:34):
up a bit more, because I'mright there with you.
That there's.
You know, if we go too far,austin, texas, with it, so to
speak, it can deter a lot ofpeople, agreed, agreed and it
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Agreed, agreed, and it deterred me.
I mean, at the end of the day,I mean I'm a Montana kid, I grew
up in Montana, I was a derrickkid in high school that traveled
to the elementary schools withcops and say no to drugs and the
whole nine yards Right.
And so for 20 years, like Isaid, for 20 years I was on some
kind of pain pill that you knowI self-medicated with on top of
alcohol, on top of some kind ofSSRI to keep me stable.
(08:08):
I didn't know there was anotherway until that gun was at the
head, tension on the trigger,breathe in, exhale, whatever you
want to call it.
One second or the other way,it's done, it's game over, right
.
And it just came to myrealization of how many other
millions of average Joes are outthere struggling with this
stuff because they don't knowthere's another way.
(08:31):
Or they see again, put thelabel on it.
You see, the hippie communityand they're like I don't really
want blue hair and a piercednose and dreads and I'm not
interested, you know.
So it removes them to eventhink that they're going to, you
know, jump into this to healthemselves, right.
So that's where it's like, man,we just we have to talk about
(08:51):
this as a community all acrossand not worry about, you know,
the stigmatized this behind thisindustry.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I guess you'd say yeah, and you know, luckily for
that purpose.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
there I mean even correct me if I'm wrong, even
the VA is starting to see thevalue of psychedelics for
veterans.
Mental health A hundred percent.
And what drives me nuts and I'mglad you said that is I'm
actually heading out toWashington DC.
I believe it's next week.
We're just waiting on flightand hotel stuff, but we're
(09:24):
flying out to DC to fight forthe ability for MDMA for PTSD.
The studies are there, wealready know it.
The federal government shouldbe making a decision on whether
they're going to legalize MDMAfor those therapies within the
next three weeks.
So there's this mad rush andeveryone's going to DC or their
state representatives to pushthis stuff because it's there,
(09:48):
like the independent research isthere.
Unfortunately, we have to playthis game and jump through the
FDA and all these other hoopsand their schedule ones and it's
like no, you see these veteransthat had massive TBI issues and
willing to take their lives,and now they're telling you like
, hey, I don't want to go toPeru to go through an ayahuasca
ceremony.
I'd rather go to said state andhold that space there as
(10:11):
opposed to going to anothercountry.
So we have to.
I think we have to take thisstuff head on and the veterans
and your first responders arereally starting to make some
noise on it and that's just it,the VA.
There's some VAs that areactually approving ketamine.
There are some VAs that arelooking into doing MDMA therapy
right at the VA hospital, butit's so sporadic, right, it's
(10:34):
certain VAs in certain statesand there's no real rhyme or
reason, what they're doing orwho they're using.
Or you know, here's someSpravato and Spravato is okay,
but, like to me, the goldstandard is either IV or
intermuscular.
If you're doing ketamine, ifyou really you're going to get
deep into it, you mean there'sinefficiencies in how the
(10:55):
government's operating?
Never right.
The $2,000 hammer, as they callit, you know it's.
I mean it's ridiculous.
So it's, you know it, it's.
We need the government's helpto move some of this stuff
forward.
But at the same time, it's likethere's so much red tape that
it's just like you know theirbuddies in the pharmaceutical
industries are waiting on the,on the sideline, because you
(11:16):
have pharmaceutical industriesthat are already looking on how
do they create syntheticpsilocybin I.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I just saw the clip of Huberman talking about this.
Yes, I actually responded.
It was Mark that sent it to me.
I responded it's like oh well,it took them long enough.
That's been their MO for thelast hundred years.
Let's isolate something out of,and this will be where the
(11:43):
hippies start going.
Yeah, let's isolate somethingout of them.
This will be where the hippiesstart going.
Yeah, like let's isolatesomething out of a plant that's
super effective, but onlyisolate that thing and not the
other, like symphony that issupposed to be played with it.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Exactly, yep, exactly , and so that's, I mean that's
where it's going to get grossand you're starting to see that.
And you know again I don't knowthe whole backstory, but you
know you've got maps right Withwith Lycos.
It just injected a hundredmillion dollars into that and
you know maps has got most ofthe studies done on that
(12:16):
independently, with all theresearch and the brain scans and
things of that nature.
But same thing is holistic, asmaps is there, you know they're.
They're partnering up with somepharmaceutical companies so
they can get certain agendas andthings passed, which is great.
But same thing Now you'rebellied up to the bear of the
pharmaceutical industry.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
How's the quote go?
You either die a hero or livelong enough to see yourself
become a villain.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yep 100% and you're seeing that You're seeing people
in the community just lashingout at maps when they can't just
zoom out and understand, Likesadly, you've got to make some
of these partnerships tocontinue to push that forward,
because some of those peoplehave the connections you need to
get these things passed, youknow so yeah, it's unfortunate,
(12:59):
right, because you'd like theworld to be what you want it to
be?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, because you'd like the world to be what you
want it to be, yeah.
And one of my favoritedefinitions of enlightenment is
to be able to see the world asit actually is.
Love that, yeah, just simplifyit right, underthink it, yeah.
And to me, these psychedelics,when applied correctly, and take
, know, take the, we'll call itthe masculine and the feminine
(13:27):
and blend it and meet in themiddle, yes, they allow us to,
to see reality as it actually is100 and I think that's I mean,
that's beautifully put.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You know, I think everyone's so scared to.
You know, try to understandthat feminine energy and the
masculine energy, and, hey, youcan have a little bit of both.
Like it's the the jo Joe Roganquote, slash quote across the
board.
You know, I'd rather be awarrior in a garden than a
gardener in a war, right, likeyou need to have a little bit of
that both.
You can still have the softside and the caring side and the
(13:56):
understanding of, you know,your wife or that other feminine
energy.
Right, you can understand themfrom a better point of view, but
nothing says you still can't bea badass and have the ability
to choke the shit out ofsomebody if you need to, right,
I mean just because you domushrooms or you're in plant
medicine.
It doesn't mean you have theability that you can't slap the
shit out of someone if it'sneeded.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I mean the.
The Viking berserkers were someof the biggest proponents of
mushrooms Like let's go, yeah,absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But yeah, I mean it's , you gotta have a balance.
I think it's like you said, Ithink it's all a balance of
bringing it all together, Likewe can do that more as a
community, and that's what we'retrying to do with our brand,
Like hey we understand thewarrior aspect of it, but let's
soften it up too.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, look at the shirt you have on right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It's got a grenade and then a Amunet and Muscaria
on it, like it's the combinationExactly Like you have the power
to explode, but you also havethe willingness and wisdom to
hold tight if you need to youknow, I just don't think we're
so divided again.
Given everything that's happenedin the last week and a half in
(15:03):
this freaking country, I meanit's wild.
It's just sad that we can'tzoom out and pause and slow down
a little bit and realize like,regardless of your left or right
thought processes, we're allstill in the United States of
America, we're all still acommunity and we need to get
back there and realize what's,what's the big goal at task here
(15:23):
.
Otherwise, just like said, youknow, this country is going to
shit in a handbasket, but I alsobelieve psychedelics is is
rearing its head up at the righttime to ask it.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But I also believe psychedelics is is rearing its
head up at the right time too.
You know, I I said to, I'vesaid to some of our mutual
acquaintances before that, uh,if we could just aerosolize 5meo
dmt and and dust the, thecapitals of the world, yep, we
would likely solve a lot of it,because you'd either bring them
(15:53):
around or you'd break them.
And at this point, like I'm all, I'm all for consent.
And at this point, like, justjust dose all the politicians,
let's sort it out on the otherside.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Dude, I'm right there with you.
I've, I've me and my wife jokeabout it.
I'm like man, if we could finda way to like, just you know,
like you said, aerialize it.
You know, chemical chemtrails,whatever you want to call it,
conspiracy theories, Right, butI'm like God, even some MDMA
just to calm these people down,so they can communicate in a way
that adults should communicate,Like we'd be, in a way, better
(16:25):
place, you know, and that's youknow again, as we, as we become
a larger brand and we're we gotwe a lot of room to grow.
That, I mean, that's kind of thething is.
I want to be that voice of likestirring the pot, you know.
I'd like to be able to call outCongress people and say, hey,
we got retreats for you.
Let us know if you want to comesit.
We got your plane ticket ready.
You know cause they need to gothrough that stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
A hundred percent I I mean as well as term limits and
all of that if we could sayokay, we, the people, elect you
on the condition that you can gosit through this and still want
to do this job on the backside.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yep, agreed, I like that.
I like that.
It would slow a lot of peopledown real quick and they'd make
them think before they grab acheck from somebody if that's
the right thing to do or not.
Oh geez we could go down a wholerevolving door rabbit hole here
today.
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's like me.
I mean I.
I look at it from a verysimplistic approach, like, like
you said, I was in corporatereal estate for almost 20 years,
(17:23):
prior to doing mental joe, andI was all about the money.
I was all about the close rate.
I was always a one or three topperformer in any division.
I was in real estate.
I just killed it.
I was really good at it.
I was a negotiator from helland it was all about money.
How much more money can I bringin the door?
Now, like you know, I don't wantto say I'm broke as a joke, but
(17:44):
I've got debt up to my eyeballs.
I'm the happiest I've ever been.
Like I'm not worried about themoney.
I know I'm not worried aboutthe money.
I know I'm on the right path.
I know things are coming aroundthe corner so I can set with
that debt and realize, okay,it's part of running a business.
You're always going to havesome kind of debt over your head
.
How do you manage it?
How do you push forward?
What's the different ways tothink outside the box, to bring
(18:05):
money in so you can grow towhere before, like I said,
everything was about money.
For me, money, money, money,money.
Now I'm like no, I, I want toserve, I want to help people, I
want people to live how I feel,like I'm living now, like I'm
finally coming to the truefoundation of who chad mclean is
.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know what is that foundation?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
man.
For me it's.
It's getting back to that goofykid that was in high school.
That didn't give a shit whatanyone thought of him.
Like I was that.
Like I wasn't the top tierathlete.
Like I was good but I wasn'tgreat.
I was poor as hell.
I was raised in a single familyhome.
My dad was an abusive alcoholic.
Um, I was the middle kid of ofan older brother, younger sister
and but I was always that goofykid.
(18:48):
I was a kid that dressed up forspirit week, right, and I would
come to school and people werelike, ooh, what's Chad wearing
on Wednesday for nerd day?
What's?
What's he bringing to the table, you know?
So I really feel I'm kind ofgetting back to that guy.
That's just kind of jovial.
People liked me for my energy,my vibe, and they didn't care if
I was the so-called tough guythat I brought to the table
(19:09):
because I thought I had to havethat coming out of the military,
you know, and bar fight andeverything else that came with
it Like.
I'm really coming back to thattrue center of caring for others
and wanting others to succeed.
And how can I be part of thatand how can I uplift them?
And through doing that, myplate, my tank, my cup, it all
gets full because I know whatI'm doing is the right thing and
(19:31):
it just feels right, as opposedto giving the money grab.
And let me see how I can stepon your throat to get that extra
two K on this bonus this month.
So I'm like who I was fouryears ago.
Today I'm two different people,two different people.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Do you see that evolution continuing the next
four years?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I do, I do.
And now I can see it.
Now, like failures, right, likeeveryone's scared of trying
something or doing somethingoutside their comfort zone Right
, because ego.
And they're really, reallyscared of the failure process,
right, well, I'm not going to begood at that, so I'm not going
to try it.
And I had that mentality Likeright now you see a guitar over
my shoulder, my wife bought itfor me, just haven't had the
(20:13):
time.
But same thing, like I'm notdead yet.
Like why wouldn't I want tolearn to play guitar?
So I'm going to get lessons.
Or why, like, one of my goalsis I would like to do an Ironman
and so I'm working towards that.
But I can't just jump out thegate and go run 26 miles and
bike 105 without even trying.
Right, so process steps.
(20:34):
What other glass ceilings can Ibreak to continue the evolution
of chad 2.0?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
well are you familiar with joseph campbell's hero's
journey I?
am yeah, okay, cool, I had afeeling somebody in within the
psychedelic space and, knowingthe unlifted coaches, you do,
you, you might have ran intothat along the way.
Uh, to me, the hero's journeyit's all.
It's a upward.
So you get back into theordinary world, but you're
starting the new evolution fromthe top, from a little higher,
(21:04):
and it spins upward.
And the one of the biggestfollies to use a little alan
watts language that one of thebiggest follies in existence use
a little Alan Watts language.
One of the biggest follies inexistence, as far as I'm
concerned, is to think that wedo a revolution or two of the
hero's journey and then we getto stop.
No, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Keep going, Keep going.
That circle just gets wider andbigger and then everything that
you're learning is falling intothe middle, but you're still
accumulating as that grows, andthat's how I feel.
I call them glass ceilings,right, Like the guy I look.
I mean, I was almost 280 poundsand you can see a picture on my
Instagram feed.
(21:43):
I pinned it to the top just asa reminder to me every time I
open up my feed.
I was huge.
I was a fat kid in a littlecoat man no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
it meant a paradigm shift, so I'm just going to stay
here until something hits mehard enough to force that.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, I think so and I think that's the bucket
everyone kind of stays in, right?
They're scared.
They know there's probablyanother thing they can do, but
they're scared why?
Because it's ego it all comesback to.
Well, if I fail, people arethinking I'm a loser or I'm dumb
, or I shouldn't have tried it,or whatever continual voice
repetitiveness we want to put inour head toward now it's like
(22:56):
no, I'm okay failing, and if youhave a problem with that,
that's on you, because at leastI'm trying, at least I'm trying
to create a better path formyself and and testing the water
and see what I'm good or bad at.
And if I'm bad at it, okay, Ineed to put more reps, perhaps
in that arena as something thatI'm really good at over here.
You know it's time management.
(23:16):
Where do you want to go withthis stuff?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Well, and talking about getting better at it, like
, did you or I or anybodylistening, ride their two-wheel
bike perfectly the first time?
They did it as a kid.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
No way.
There's no way in hell.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, for some reason I mean whether you know fitness
people have started to comearound on fitness and you've got
to do it for a while.
This entrepreneurial game,right?
Yeah, people think that it'sgoing to happen right away.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And I was one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I figured I put a little bit of work in.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
It's supposed to happen because I got this really
cool idea.
There's lots of cool ideas outthere, but you actually have to
put in the reps to make thatidea come alive.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
What's a good batting average in the major leagues?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Probably major leagues.
You're probably.
260 to 320 is a good battingaverage.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You're on base one of every three to four times 100%.
How often does that persongetting on base end up coming
all the way around and crossinghome plate?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Not too often.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
How often does anyone in the major leagues actually
hit a home run?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
even smaller, even smaller of a window and it's and
I love that you bring thisanalogy up.
I know where you're going andI'll let you finish.
But the reason I'm gonna jumpin real quick is my my oldest
son, connor, is like he's gottensuper addicted to baseball.
Like he will come home, hewatches it.
We go outside and we areplaying catch at least an hour
to hour and a half a day and Idon't force it.
(24:54):
But where I want to go with thisis where I'm changed mentally
as I talk to him about thefailures of baseball and I tell
him like buddy, like you'regoing to strike out more than
you're going to be on base.
Or hey, buddy, you're going tostrike up more than you're going
to hit a home run.
And guess what?
You're going to strike up morethan you're going to hit a home
run.
And guess what?
You're going to get hit by theball plenty of times.
You're going to catch one inthe chin when it hops up from
(25:14):
shortstop and it's going to hurtlike a son of a bitch.
But I promise you breathethrough it and that hurt will go
away within a couple of minutes.
It's going to suck, don't getme wrong.
It's going to suck.
So for me, that's the othermental change.
Now I look to coach to thefailures, as opposed dude, why
aren't you hitting the ball?
What are you doing?
(25:35):
This Catch it like this.
No, he's 7.
He's learning the process, buthe's going to fail a hell of a
lot more than he's going tosucceed.
So baseball analogy Spot on.
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
How old are you?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I will be 47 this fall.
47.
Cool, how old are you?
I will be 47 this fall 47.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Cool, how old are you in relation to being an
entrepreneur, like in the, inthe, in the apparel industry?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh man, I'm two and a half years, I'm young, I'm
super young, and I know it takes, you know, at least five to six
years to build a successfulcompany.
And I what it was the stat ittakes takes 10 to 15 years to
build an olympic athlete, youknow.
So, just like, if you can pauseand realize, like you're in
this shit, you're gonna be inthis shit for a while and it's
(26:20):
gonna suck, it's okay.
But, like you said, people wantthat instant gratification.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
One of my business partners in acquisition.
We own a HVAC and plumbingcompany in northwestern PA and
he sent myself and one of ourother partners and I forget
which CEO of which nine-figurecompany it was.
The quote was excellence is theability to withstand pain.
(26:49):
Ooh I like that.
And he went on to say that Icould tell you all the rags to
riches and pump myself up, butwhat gets left out is the times
that I went home feeling like afailure, with no money in the
account, and my wife looked atme.
What gets left out is the timesthat I went home feeling like a
failure, with no money in theaccount, and my wife looked at
(27:10):
me wondering if she still wantedto be with this man.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's real man and it's the stuff that you know.
You get the the hustle pornguys out here that they're like
oh, go hard, go hard, go hard.
They're so far removed from thebeginning of their journey that
they'll talk about wanting like, oh, you got to stick it out,
(27:39):
you got to do this, but itdoesn't land because these guys
have these eight and nine figurecompanies and they like well,
you just got to keep going.
It's like.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It's like um, somebody who never lost weight
at all trying to coach somebodythrough 100 pound weight loss
yeah, yeah, exactly, and I feel,and I feel that because I'm in
this journey, like I said, youknow, four years ago I was
almost 280 pounds, yeah, youknow, and I am the guy that it
(28:08):
fell on deaf ears because youhear joe rogan and he throws
some good tidbits in there, but,right, the mind of man
immediately goes well, rogan,you're a fucking
multi-millionaire stand-upcomedian.
But what I like about rogan ishe does still talk about his
failures and all the shit jobshe had and how many times he
bombed on stage.
And so when he started talkingabout the negative aspects and
(28:29):
the failures, that's when I waslike, oh, this dude puts in a
lot of reps and he understandswhat it takes to be successful.
Like you're saying, some ofthese guys and gals out there
are just got to push through,you got to go, go, go.
And it's like whoa like, talkmore about the failures.
What got you to the success?
Whoa like, talk more about thefailures.
What got you to the success?
Because the poor guy like methat's struggling, like I can't
(28:49):
see where it's successful,because you're telling me, like
it was just hop, skipping a jump, and you were there.
That's not the case.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
No, not at all.
I I uh hi.
I ran a brick and mortarfitness facility through COVID.
Oh my God.
Talk about shooting your otherfoot off then they say hey, do
you want this six-figure loan?
It's basically, it's a mortgage, it's a three, it's a 30 year,
(29:17):
three percent loan.
Uh, do you want it?
We'll just give it to you.
Oh yeah, sure, my gym isn'taround anymore, but that loan
still is, you know.
So it's something to be saidthat, and especially on this
podcast, which the working name,you know my podcast was called
the Primal man podcast beforeRiverside still says that the
(29:38):
working name right now is startand scale as we move towards
still talking about what we weretalking about, talking about
business too, though, yep, andit's something that I'm aiming
to highlight a lot on here,which is why I pointed the
conversation this way, and I'mglad you you had so much to say
about it just now, because inthe internet age of everybody
(30:00):
can be a millionaire, you justneed to want to be an
entrepreneur Like yeah.
Do you have the gumption tostick it out for five years?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
yeah, that's just it and I think that it's not talked
about.
And it's just the same thinglike mental health or
psychedelics.
It's not talked about in a realjust meat and potatoes kind of
an attitude yeah as opposed towe're all gonna win, you're all
millionaires and if you put itout in the universe, it'll
happen.
Well, maybe, but you still haveto put some foot forward.
You still got to grind, youstill got to do some shit Like
(30:32):
you can't just wish it right ona piece of paper to stick it on
the wall and it's going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
You mean your, uh, your ketamine therapy didn't
create a million dollar businessjust from that one session.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
No, I wish it did, but God damn, I'm still grinding
.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Well, and for the hard chargers that are still
listening, would you say thatpsychedelics gives you more
clarity on the ability to keepdriving effort towards a pointed
goal.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I do, I do, man.
I look at psychedelics now asthe same thing.
I'm 47.
I just started getting on TRTfor, you know, testosterone
replacement for people thataren't aware of that.
But like I look at it likepsychedelics as being kind of a
TRT for the brain For me.
It's, you know, I do it everysix months, you know, and it's
(31:20):
like a control op elite for me,because you get into the daily
grind, grind, grind, go, go, goand your head's down and you're
trying to do all these differentthings and wearing 30 different
hats.
But at the end of that sixmonths I'm at a point of like
I'm burnt out.
I'm not sure what else I can do.
I'm doing everything the bestof my ability at 12 hours a day,
in my sleep and, you know, likeif it was a real job.
But then I'll go through thatpsychedelic experience I.
(31:44):
But then I'll go through thatpsychedelic experience.
I'll come out and like there'sthis weight has been lifted,
there's a pause, there is aclarity of oh, we can pivot at X
, y and Z to free up this time,to add to, you know, social
media or a different t-shirt,whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, when you unsync the two hemispheres of the
brain for a couple hours and letthem kind of do their thing and
then come back together, well,all of a sudden, new ideas come
up.
The when was the whether?
Whether it's yours or somebodyelse's?
What's the earliest time thatyou remember like, oh wow,
psychedelics have an impact onsomebody?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I mean, for me it was .
I would probably say it was mythird or fourth ketamine session
.
You know roughly again fouryears ago, excuse me, but it it
was so good that I rememberwalking in my backyard and it
was at night and just seeing mybackyard completely destroyed
Cause I got two young boys andI'm OCD to the max and coming
(32:41):
around the corner and looking atthat and going, oh, that's a
mess.
But like it's a mess now andthey're boys and they're going
to screw stuff up and they'regoing to rip things apart.
And just I remembered at thatmoment pausing and thinking, oh
shit, like this was what it'slike to be present.
Like, oh, I've always heardpeople say you got to be present
(33:03):
, but I was like, be present,I've got 40 fucking things going
on in my head right now.
I don't understand what beingpresent means.
And so I I understood very earlythat psychedelics is a way to
really calm the nervous system.
If you're willing to deal withit and again, I'm no advocate
for you know, let's, let's godown to the 7-eleven and go get
(33:25):
johnny the shaman that's off at6 and go in the alley and take
this shit I'm all about.
You've got to have a good setand setting and you've got to
have some intention.
You need to be able to growwith these things.
If you're just doing it, to doit, okay, whatever, but you're
not going to move forward.
You're going to stay in thatpattern.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, I'm glad you highlighted that and this.
There's people across thespectrum and I've I've witnessed
some people who are like, oh,the medicine, the medicine, the
man like you know you're, you'regoing and you're getting high
with your friends and partyingwith your friends and you're
calling it the medicine.
You're sitting with themedicine once a month, like call
(34:06):
it what it, what it is, likethat's cool, like that's your
form of going and drinkingtequila once a month, like
that's good for you.
Yeah, you know, I remember Iwas dude that 88 Camaro I had.
I'd walk into school smellinglike cigarettes and a joint.
And there was one of my buddieshad gotten kicked out of his
parents' house.
He was sleeping on a buddy'sbedroom.
(34:27):
He ate a few grams of mushrooms.
Woke up the next morning, wentand applied for a job, got a job
, moved back into his parents'house.
That was, I mean, you know, 18,17, 18 years old.
There's something to be saidfor the fact that this stuff's
been around for as long as it'sbeen around and continues having
(34:48):
the effects it has.
Have you read, um, theimmortality key?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I've heard of it.
I have not read it.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Okay, highly recommend.
Okay, I mean talking about the,the psychedelic uh ceremonies
of old, the mysteries of aLucius and the ergot that they
found in skulls there.
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I mean, it's been around.
And again, if you want to godown more rabbit holes, you, you
, you realize certain religionswere whacking shamans and people
of of tribes, that they weretheir medicine people, Right,
because they knew this stuffworked way back then you know.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
I, because they knew this stuff worked way back then.
I mean, do we want to talkabout how there's mushrooms in
Christian art right up until thepoint of Spanish Inquisition,
when government interjecteditself into a religion?
Yep, and that's the rabbit holeI'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I mean, we have a couple designs that we're kind
of sitting on that eventually wewant to release where it's
literally that it's the one Iforget.
I think it's like in germany,up in, yeah, in saint petersburg
or something like that I wantto say, but like in one of the
very big glass windows, it'sjesus at the top and then it's
all of these mushrooms that areon the side, and so it's like
(36:03):
same thing, and then you, youcan go down the rabbit hole of
you know, St Nick and hisreindeer eating the Amaskari,
Like if you want to open up thebook.
the book is there.
You just got to be willing togo read it.
Now are they all maybe fairytales or yeah, but it's.
(36:28):
You know, when you're going toa church that's thousands of
years old and they've got thispane glass window with mushrooms
and Jesus in the same thing,you kind of wonder a little bit,
you know, yeah, yeah, just alittle bit.
I mean to have the connection tothe thing that intimately yeah,
yeah it's there and I thinkthere's a lot to be said.
(36:50):
And again we'll just go back towhere the world is kind of on
fire right now.
There is shit going on anywhere.
If you just pay attention alittle bit and get away from the
mainstream media and just zoomout, things are wild right now,
real wild, and you can kind offeel a weird shift.
Like I said, I think there's areason where there's a
resurgence of maybe thepsychedelic.
(37:11):
So now it's the people that areleading.
The biggest charge on this areyour veterans, and there goes
your warrior in the guardmentality, right like you've got
the pipe hitters.
But they also want to reachthat softer side because they're
sick of living in the bottleand they're sick of living in
pills and they're they're tiredof seeing their brothers and
sisters eat a bullet.
You know, I mean, the ratio iswhat?
(37:32):
20 to 44 a day are taking theirlives.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Well, and think about this from before the Industrial
Revolution.
Let's say, like, how wouldveterans or warriors of old have
healed?
Yeah, what was the medicineavailable to them?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Alcohol right, I mean , there wasn't really much there
.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I mean even go alcohol and even a little
further back, like psychedelicswere likely available there.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Correct, if we go with like indigenous Native
American, like they had, theyhad peyote, they had mesclun,
you know yeah, and and they inagain going through the history
books, they, they would assistthe, the gringo, the white man
with that, you know, and samething.
And that's where you would getsome of your, your guys, leaving
(38:23):
cities to go live with tribes,because they kind of saw things
in a different aspect.
So I mean, it's there.
It's just.
I think a lot of this stuff hasbeen hidden for years.
A lot of people talk about itin a negative context, like so,
like I said, we're fighting toget some of this stuff off a
schedule one.
I think marijuana, cannabis isgetting at a point where I think
it's going to be rescheduled asa Schedule 3 by the federal
(38:47):
government.
I think the paperwork is on thedesk per se, but we're finally
getting there with cannabis.
So I think all this stuff'skind of making its way through
and it's the voices and thepeople that hold a heavy stick
that the government's going tolook at and say, oh, our
warriors are asking for this.
A heavy stick that thegovernment's going to look at
(39:07):
and say, oh, our warriors areasking for this.
Maybe it's kind of hard to sayno to a guy or gal that's going
out there and serving yourcountry to say hey, I need some
help mentally and it needs to bedone here in the States as
opposed to going to Peru.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, you know, and it would be nice.
I love the cannabis has come asfar as it has and it'd be nice
to see that industry get back tothe standards around that,
around that plant that thatgrowers had, that cultivators
had to start with.
You know from the people thatI've known inside the industry
(39:38):
that you know talk about themold that just gets passed by
and overlooked, or you know it's, it's rough man, and again it's
like where's the line of like?
Okay, now this stuff'savailable, now the quality's
slipping, like where do we, howdo we find that balance?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
well, I mean that again.
I think that's where you haveto marry in a little bit of the
regulatory industry.
You know, like you've got to doit, but you can't do it like
the fda where they're, you knowthey're telling you freaking
cheetos in of Froot Loops isbetter than steak and eggs.
Like you can't.
You can't be having people justhand over fist getting checks
just to make a statement to toget something on the dinner
(40:18):
table.
Right.
Like you, you've got to have atrue regulatory industry that
leads, I think, with heart andthe right thought process, which
is, which is, almost impossiblegiven.
I think, with heart and theright thought process, which is
almost impossible, given theshit that we're in now.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, 100%, Chad brother, we could go for two
hours and we'll make the peoplego find you if they want to hear
more of you.
Where can they find you?
I love it.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I mean like Google, right, and the
algorithms.
I always tell people just putin Mental Joe Apparel and they
go Google search.
But we've got a presence onFacebook, instagram, we just we
just did the tick talk thing.
I don't know how long that'sgoing to go with the good old
government stuff.
But you know, we're we're young, we're growing, but our, our
biggest, our biggest is is onInstagram, but it's mental Joe
(41:01):
apparel and then our website,just mental joecom, is where
they can come find us.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Love it.
If there's one thing for thepeople who leave this
conversation remembering, whatis it?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Realize that tomorrow's a better day, man,
like you're going to have yourups, your downs, your ebbs and
your flows, but if you can pause, realize that the day the shit
that you're in, the bad attitude, that the stuff that's
happening to you, stop, pause,take a look at, zoom out and say
why is it happening to me?
Speaker 1 (41:32):
And tomorrow's a better day, there are better
choices or other things to getdone out there.
Love it.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Appreciate you, man.
Thank you so much.
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