S5 Ep1: Reconnecting and Reflecting After 20 Years In the Sport - Coach Q & Coach T Tell All - Coaching & Cocktails

Episode Transcript
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Tina (00:04):
so hello and welcome to coaching and cocktail.
Oh, my god, I can't even say itanymore.
So coaching and cocktails, thepodcast it has been, oh gosh,
over a year.
I'll have to go back and lookat the dates.
I might actually, uh, releaseda podcast, um, but this is Tina.

(00:26):
I am here without Brandy.
I am here with somebody super,super, super special and I'm
going to let her introduceherself because I think we have
a lot to talk about.
So Q tell us?

Qawnana (00:41):
a little.
Tell me who you are.
So everybody knows me as CoachQ.
It is pronounced Kawana becauseI'm sure for the past 20 years
a lot of people have probablybeen like how in the world do
you actually pronounce her name?
So it is pronounced Kawana andI am here to talk about all the

(01:04):
things over the course of 20years oh, my God, 20 years 20
years.
This year is our anniversary.

Tina (01:17):
Yeah.
So Q and I got on stage in ourvery first shows together
Together 20 years ago.
Huh, what Side by side.
I have the pictures to prove it.
I will dig them up and I'mgoing to have.
I'm going to have you send meyour favorites and I have mine.
And um, 20 years ago in October, um, it was the OCB Charm City

(01:43):
Classic at the time, which hastransitioned over the years into
the Chesapeake, the OCBChesapeake, but different
promoters, different life,different everything.
But we say that's our show.
So hey, that's our show.
Bobby, Bobby, we are talking toyou.
It's your 20th anniversary andso maybe we should be recognized

(02:08):
.
I'm just going to put that outthere.
Like Q and I said listen, weare too old to not have
shameless self-promotion.
At this point, if I feel like Ideserve some recognition, I'm
just going to say I deserve somedamn recognition.
Motion.
At this point, I I, if I feellike I deserve some recognition,
I'm just going to say I deservesome damn recognition.
Uh, not being, you know that,that's not being full of myself

(02:29):
or conceited in any way, shapeor form, but we thought we would
spend some time walking downmemory lane um 20th anniversary
and we've remained friends andand I'll share my perspective
and then you can share yours.
But so you know, you have thosepeople, you know those people.
You know what?
What's that saying?
You have friends for a reason,a season and a lifetime, and I

(02:52):
wouldn't you know, while you andI we catch up at shows, we see
each other.
Um, we went to a football, aCowboys game, together.

Qawnana (03:01):
Yes, we did.

Tina (03:02):
So we have those connections but you know we
don't, we don't hang out, wedon't talk on the phone, we
don't, um, we're not I'm usingmy air quotes those kinds of
friends, but you have theseconnections with people and this
is where I cry on this podcastall the time.
So you have connections withpeople that you can't really

(03:25):
explain.
It's a, it's a spirit, it's a,it's an energy and no matter it
could be years before we seeeach other at a show and we run
into each other, and it's likeyou're just connection.
I've always felt that with youand you and of course I you know
I follow things on social mediaand I'm sure you see each other

(03:46):
there but there's always beenthis spiritual, soulful
connection for me with you.
So when you reached out and youknow, kind of, the older we get
and the more we reflect on ourlives and, um, you know I think
your words were you know they're, they're just people that you
kind of take with you as your,your kind of legacy, or the

(04:08):
relationships you want toremember, you know into as we
get to the second half of ourlives, and I agree, like that,
that's exactly how I feel aboutyou as well.

Qawnana (04:19):
Yeah, yeah, I yeah, no, I mean, I can totally agree.
Um, it's, it was somethingabout even just the first time
that we actually shared a showand a stage together, like
literally both so ignorant towhat we were about to walk into.
We had so much in common thatday.
We both had this confidencethat, like we probably shouldn't

(04:42):
have had we both talked about,like we probably shouldn't have
had we both talked about, likewe we probably shouldn't have
been on that stage, but we werethere anyway.
Like, and just like you said,every time we see each other,
the hugs and the warm greetingshave been consistent and they've
been genuine and they've beenauthentic and much needed,
probably on both sides, right,unspoken, just transference of

(05:10):
energy, and only maybe thepeople that I've coached over
the years know this about me,but I'm actually really, really
introverted.
And so when I go to these shows, there's this whole like
emotional thing that I go tolean up to a show, no matter
what the capacity is, and when Iget there, there's only a

(05:30):
handful of people like I'mhoping to see and you're on that
list and again, literally onlya handful of people.
And so when I leave the show,also, yeah, and then if Eric is
there, it's an added bonusbecause then I get to hug you
both and I'm just crazy aboutyou both and you know to be able

(05:55):
to leave a show and know that Igot to see my fit fam right,
like I got to see my fit fam allas well in my world now, like I
can go back into my littlecocoon until the next time.
You know, um and and the otherthing for me, and I'm I really
pay attention when people ask mehow I'm doing.
I know if you really mean thatquestion.

(06:15):
I know.
I know when somebody, whensomebody asked me how I'm doing,
I know whether they really meanit or it's just the customary
thing to ask.
And when you ask me how I'mdoing, I feel like you are
genuinely wanting to know howI'm doing.
So I it has given me the spaceto be honest with you about

(06:37):
where I'm at and how I'm doingand not just blow smoke and say,
oh, I'm good, or you knowhalf-ass.
If you will say how I'm doing,you genuinely want to know how
I'm doing, I do.
You know, yeah, I love you too.
Okay, I'm going to try not tocry as to her.

Tina (06:55):
Just got started Oprah episode and we're both going to
cry.

Qawnana (07:00):
Oh my gosh.
So, um, so.
So back to to to the first show.
Tell me a little bit, becauseI've always been a little bit
curious.
I think I know a little bit,but I really wanted to hear it
from your words.
It's been so long, like whatwas your why?
Like what was your why to stepin on the stage that day?

Tina (07:22):
Well, I would say back then um, my, so my bodybuilding,
I guess a career wasn't acareer at the time, but I
started into bodybuilding in myearly twenties.
My, my ex-husband, was abodybuilder.
Although he never competed, hecalled himself a bodybuilder, um
, and so he's really the onethat got me in the gym and

(07:43):
started, you know, getting mereally lifting weight.
So I was like 21 when we metand so I've been.
You know, I was lifting, Ithink because genetically I'm
this sort of short, stockyperson.
My body responded reallyquickly.
So people just assumed, youknow, female in the gym and I
was sort of stocky and muscularanyway, and then the weight sort
of changed and so everybody wasalways like, oh, you should

(08:05):
compete, you should compete.
Well, listen, back then.
So we're talking, I was 21, sothat would have been still the
90s 90s?

Qawnana (08:15):
I don't know.

Tina (08:16):
Yeah, horrible dates.
Wow, it would have been like 94.
And so, you know, ocb wasn't'taround.
I didn't know shit about.
Fuck, it was all mcc.
My husband and I went to bodyrock that was out here at bowie
state back in the day, brandt,and you know all the people
flying ryan, and you knowunfortunately she's in prison

(08:36):
and all those people right, andso those were what I was exposed
to and I had the originalOxygen magazine and you know I
don't.
That was my 20s, we, we, wesplit up.
As I was turning 30, eric and Istarted dating.
I was already well into like Iwas doing personal training on
the side, doing everything elseanyway.
So still, people were like, oh,you should compete, you should

(08:56):
compete.
I was way into like eating anddrinking and partying as much as
possible in my 20s, so that wasnever gonna to happen.
Like starving myself seemedlike a fun idea, um, so really
it was after I had Nicholas.
Um, so I was 31 when he wasborn.
I gained 50 pounds while I waspregnant.
So I am four, 11 and a half.

(09:17):
For reference, I weighed 175pounds.
I was as big around as I wastall, and so something kind of
clicked, you know, after I hadNick, obviously I had to lose
the weight, and so it was kindof the first time I'd ever put
diet in right, really paidattention to my diet.
I did the body for lifechallenge.
I still have the book.

(09:39):
It's right behind me that youknow it's still one of the best.
Like the book, the process itwas like real basic.
Like you know it's still one ofthe best.
Like the book, the process itwas like real basic.
Like you know.
You got like a free once a week.
Like it was it made sense.
So I followed that and I didthe little challenge thing.
I took my pictures after 12weeks, like I just realized that
like hey, this is like such areally cool thing to see how the

(09:59):
body reacts to like when youactually exercise right.
I was like okay, cool.
And then I just decided I wasgoing to challenge myself and
decide, okay, well, if this ishow my body looks and when I eat
right, then I will do acompetition.
And so I think I made thatdecision.
And I want to say it was likeMay of 2005, went to my very

(10:25):
first show in August.
It was the presidential cup.
I saw Doug and Stephaniecompete, so we went to the same
first show.
Yes, yes, you didn't win at thetime, so right.
So it was like Remo and likeeverybody.
Yeah, all the people.
Yeah, and then yeah.
So I had already set my sightson October.
I had convinced Eric to competetoo.

(10:46):
I think his first show wasactually the USBX one oh, usbx,
okay, baltimore one that BrianWashington always did.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,yeah, november, I think it was
like November so we both decidedto, you know, compete in our
first shows that year.
And so my why at that?
That time I think I was lookingfor a challenge and just to

(11:08):
like see what my body would do,um, for that particular show, um
, and to just say I finally didit after people have been
telling me for 10 plus yearsthat you should compete.
And so I was like well, ifeverybody else says I should
compete, I guess I shouldcompete.
And here I, there I go thatpretty common.

Qawnana (11:27):
When I ask people that's pretty common People are
like people have been in my facetelling me I should compete for
so long and I finally was justlike okay, fine.
Like yeah, that's pretty common.
When I ask people, they'rewhite.

Tina (11:40):
Do you know what, though?
I same right and I tell peoplethat is absolutely not a reason
to get on stage A hundredpercent If somebody comes and
says, unless it's something youcame up with on your own.
So, but yeah, so we can.

(12:00):
We can talk about how that Yhas changed over the last 20
years.

Qawnana (12:04):
Sure, you do better.
So what was yours?
Well, so I, I've been anathlete my entire life, from,
literally, I think, five, sixyears old, doing little league
chair and all the things.
Um, I was a track and fieldathlete and I was already

(12:25):
lifting weights.
I was lifting weights in juniorhigh school.
High school and eating like mymom couldn't keep food in the
house but because my metabolismwas just burning it.
So I, I, I was a powerhousebecause I was a sprinter and I

(12:46):
noticed very quickly that mybody was responding to all of
this.
And also, I don't remember how Igot my hands on a fitness
magazine, especially in the hood, right, and it could have been
one of the football players,because we lifted weights with

(13:06):
the football players.
But, needless to say, I wasintrigued by the fact that
bodybuilding included women, andat the time it was just
bodybuilding, there was no othercategory.
And I was like, oh, I want todo that.
So I wanted to be a bodybuildersince I was a kid, I want to do
that.
And I remember telling myclassmates like I'm going to be

(13:30):
a bodybuilder one day.
Now, I'm not going to just be abodybuilder, but I'm going to
be a really good bodybuilder oneday.
Not only am I going to be areally good bodybuilder one day,
but I'm going to end up in oneof these fitness magazines one
day.
I had said all that and thenwhat had happened was what had
happened was I joined the army,I got married, I had a family

(13:55):
and then my sister, who's 10years younger than I, am her
junior year of high school.
I took custody of her and movedher here from Ohio and we had
just finished.
She was a cheerleader and, bythe way, I did all the things
cheer dance track, like when Isay I was an athlete, I was an
athlete.
Well, she was also acheerleader and I remember her

(14:19):
going from junior year intosenior year and we were having
just this moment.
And this was my way like,because we're so far apart in
age, I'm finally getting to bondwith my sister over something.
And it was senior year and Igot to share with her, like, all
my stuff.
So we're going through all ofmy old stuff and I pull out my
old yearbook and in the yearbookit says I can't wait to see you

(14:43):
on the bodybuilding stage.
I can't wait to see you at theArnold Classic.
I can't wait to see because,you know again, ocb didn't exist
, so it was all NPC, ifbb.
I can't wait to see like you'regoing to be the greatest
bodybuilder ever.
And you were like the bombathlete and blah, blah, blah and
all the things.
And I looked at her.
It was in that moment, like itwas like the hairs on the back

(15:05):
of my neck literally stood up,tina, and I got really emotional
and I looked at her and I saidI did not do what I said I was
going to do and I one thing thatI'd like to do is do what I
said I was going to do.
And I looked at her and I saidI have sacrificed so much, like

(15:28):
my entire life, and at the timeI had even sacrificed the career
that I wanted to have, right,so I I've given up a lot of my
hopes and dreams.
And I was like I just feel likeI need to do this because it's
the one thing that I don't feellike I have to alter the rest of
my life to do, and I don't feellike I'm going to hurt anybody

(15:49):
doing this.
And even if I only do it thisone time, I can at least say
that I did it.
I can at least say that I didit.
So also in May of 2005 was whenI made that decision of 2005

(16:09):
was when I made that decisionand I just, I just my training,
because I too was already also apersonal trainer.
I was, you know, knee deep infitness at this point because my
daughter was born in 2000.
I had, by the time I had her, Ialready was in the gym, working
in gyms as well as in themilitary, and like I was
juggling all the things right,as we both, as we both were, and
um, and then, of course, youknow, I had my son and I was

(16:35):
like, all right, we're gonna dothis.
So so I did.
And you know, just just forthose who are going to watch
this, you and I did this with nosocial media.
I don't know about you, but Idon't even think that I had
found the message boards,because OCB was only like two

(16:58):
years old by the time we steppedon the stage.
It was still very fresh andfigure was also still a very
fresh category.
Up until that point, I wasstill following all the women
bodybuilders and the fitnesscompetitors.
I was following them and I wasfollowing bodybuilders.
And then, when figure came outthat was that was why I chose
figure, cause I'm like I likethe way she looks and I, I, I

(17:21):
feel like I could do that.
And you know, in my mind theepitome of figure was all right,
I got that like to me and so,yeah, but like no resources, it
was like, all right, let me goto this show and see what this
is about and make sure, like Iat least know what I'm doing

(17:41):
when I get to the first show andwe watched Stephanie Miller do
a clean sweep at that show and Iremember printing because,
again, this internet and all thetechnology.
So I remember printing herpicture out from the OCB website
and laminating it and stickingit on my mirror and I was like,

(18:02):
all right, so this is what they,this is what they choose for
first place, okay, bet, right.
And and I literally looked atthat picture almost every day
and I and I trained and I dietedand dieted and trained, and
again, just working with what Igot, which is why that ended up
kind of being my, my businessmodel right, right, work with

(18:24):
what you got.
And and then you know, we, youand I both show up on stage
together, which, by the way,it's so funny because the
picture of you and I standingnext to each other, I'm towering
over you and I swear you're4'11 but I'm 5'3.
But you had like they needed acategory, they needed a height
class just for like you.
So like you, you know what Imean.

(18:46):
It's like all of us in theshort class.

Tina (18:48):
And then Tina I can't help so fucking.
Although I think at the time Iwas actually still five foot I,
I didn't shrink a half an inchuntil I was so much later about
40.
But so I actually was on theOCB chat boards.
I don't remember when, I don'tremember when the boards
actually came about, but I likethe time.

Qawnana (19:10):
Everything's a little fuzzy for me and I think they
came it came a little later, Iwant to say maybe a year or so
later okay, I remember being onthe OCB chat boards.

Tina (19:20):
I remember going to um the workshops that Matt, matt and
Remo and Sully put on.
Sully was one of our first Ericand I's first coaches.
So hey, sully, you need to haveus on your new YouTube channel
so we can all have a reminiscingsession.

(19:41):
It'll be super fun.
But yeah, you're right, like Itell people all the time like
back then, all we had was theOCB chat boards and more or less
we would just like post.
Well, here's what my workoutwas today.
Here's what I ate today.
Like it wasn't I could evenname, like it was like you and
me and Joe Franco and MattSheffley and Rima, sully,

(20:07):
stephanie and Doug.
Stephanie and Doug.
Will Usher was on there.
I'm pretty sure Marshall was onthere at the time.
Marshall was on there.

Qawnana (20:18):
Yeah.

Tina (20:19):
All the.

Qawnana (20:19):
OGs yeah, all the OGs.
And what I loved about themessage board was, literally, we
were swapping and sharinginformation.

(20:40):
We were sharing information.
It wasn't like this oh, Ilearned this secret and I'm in
the industry when there were nowomen coaches and men were
forced to try to figure out howto coach us, especially when
these new categories came outfemale bodybuilder and nine

(21:01):
times out of 10, knock it out ofthe park.
Because it's what about size,density, symmetry, leanness,
like oh right, the rules stillare the same whether it's male
or female in bodybuilding.
But when you're talking aboutfigure and bikini and all these
other memories, like I don'tknow what to do with that, and a

(21:23):
lot of figure competitors werewere in fact being, you know,
coached and trained likebodybuilders.

Tina (21:29):
Because, well then, we know, and everything we did was
a bro diet because nobody knewany different, right?
Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't eatcarbs for days and days on end
and would have like one meal,like a, like a meal and a banana
.
God bless, sally.
But you know, back then therewere no macros.
Like you were just following me.

Qawnana (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, what's a macro?
Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, definitelywasn't doing.
And here's the.
I actually was my own coach,and when people ask me that
question, like, why didn't youhire a coach?
Some of it was money relatedand some of it was that I

(22:11):
genuinely wanted to learn.
So this is where the sciencegeek comes out.
I was so intrigued andfascinated by the human body and
how, how it can change and andI was just like I want to learn
myself.
I want to learn this on my own,like my body is doing these
changes and I'm putting thesepictures together and this is

(22:32):
this is extremely, like,mentally stimulating for me.
I want to do this on my own.
Um, and it wasn't that Icouldn't be coached.
I just told you I'd spent mywhole life being an athlete, so
I've been coached my entire life, so I absolutely could have
been coached.
But I just thought like whatbetter way to learn how to
bodybuild than to learn how todo this for it?

(22:53):
Really, it was me being selfish.
I was just like this is me,this is all me.
This is the one thing that Iget to have to myself, and
everybody else gets to have therest of what's left of me, but
this part belongs to me and yeah, and my ex-husband was actually
on those message boards a lot.
He'd be on there more than meand he'd come to me and be like

(23:14):
hey, so I just read about thissupplement and maybe we should
research a little bit more.
All the things.
He'd come and give me all thetea, right, all the things.
He'd come and give me all thetea.
And that was the beginning ofthe beginning for the both of us
.
And I don't remember a lot aboutthe backstage experience that

(23:37):
day in our first show, but whatI did remember was I remember
standing next to you a lot, andit wasn't until later, as I was
understanding the science behindbodybuilding, that they were
really comparing the two of usbecause we had similar bodies.
We had so that's, it was allthat ass, all that ass.

(23:58):
That's the one thing you and Ihad in common.
Even if I'm taller than you, weliterally had the same body
type.
And what's crazy is, I don'tthink they really knew how to
judge that.
They did not know how to judgethat, and I don't know about you
, but my feedback used to alwaysbe you need to bring down your

(24:20):
glutes, you need to bring.
You need to lean out yourglutes and I'm like did y'all
not see the vein running up theside of my ass?
Like I'm?
How much more leaner can Ipossibly get?

Tina (24:28):
right.
No, my feedback was always Iwas too big for figure.
Yeah, I got that, as I was soblocky blocky, which is why I
decided to do bodybuilding in mysecond season, because
everybody said I was too big forfigure, even though it was kind
of like I fucking hate this andI don't want to do it, but I'll
do it anyway, because I'm tiredof the judges telling me I'm

(24:50):
too big for figure.

Qawnana (24:51):
I did it once, got a pro card and then I was like
that's enough for me and I'mgoing back and I'm going to
prove to you that I can dofigure yeah that was why I
stayed in figure as long as Idid, because I was just like no,
I've already had to literallyshape and redefine this body to
fit in this, in this mold, andI'm like you was just like, no,

(25:14):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna show y'allthat because it's called figure.
For god's sakes, it's calledfigure.
When do we not bring a figureto the figure stage?

Tina (25:23):
In my mind that's just on our presentation too, which I
always thought was the most funpart Me too Of the whole thing
getting to do the routine, metoo.
Although I'll admit that if youfast forward 20 years later, I
am so thankful that all they dois 10 seconds.
Get your ass on, take a picture, go the fuck home, because,
sorry about my language, I'mlike I can't sit here and watch

(25:45):
200 one minute routines well,now we've gotten yeah, because
we got more categories now, butalso you, you and I, you and I.

Qawnana (25:53):
Again, I go back.
We come from an era whereshowmanship was important and it
was artistic and it was juststill able to display our
physiques, but it gave, you know, people to spend all this money
to come see us.
So so it was a littleentertaining.
And then there, then there camethis moment and I don't know
when the moment happened.
I feel like it was like 2014,2015, where the routine started

(26:17):
to get a little bit too saucyfor my plate and I was just like
you know what.

Tina (26:22):
The first time I saw a girl slide across the stage on
her knees like she was in aflash dance, I was like what,
what?

Qawnana (26:30):
or yeah, yeah, that's when I, that's when I really
lost my, my, my taste for um,that was when I lost my taste,
that when they started, whengirls started forgetting that
and the guys I'm not gonna blamethis all on the girls, but you
know, I'm because I'm a I'm afemale bodybuilding coach I lean

(26:51):
heavy on the girls.
I give them a hard time, but theguys, they, they do it too.
They coming in saintchippendales, but you know they
thought it was and I'm like,okay, I'm.
I am also now okay with the 15second hit strike a pose in to
house music and get up off thestage'm.
I am also now okay with the 15second hit strike of clothes
into house music and get up offthe stage.
I am.
I am now also okay with thatbecause, also, I don't want to
leave this show at 11 o'clock atnight.

(27:13):
No, no, there used to be somelong nights and I don't know
about you, but the next day Iused to feel like I've been hit
by a Mack truck every singletime and I tell one of the
things I tell people.

Tina (27:24):
Now that was so.
I'm like, listen, do not comecome at me complaining about how
long the show is and when youdidn't have to get there till
one and you're in, the show'sdone at five or six, so listen
our show started at like eighto'clock in the morning.
We'd get this.
Thank God they started doingaway with the intermission.

(27:44):
The show was small when westill had a three-hour
intermission what three-hour?

Qawnana (27:49):
what are you?

Tina (27:50):
gonna do for three hours.
Then the night show starts.
You don't get out of there till11, 12 o'clock at night and
everything's closed and all youwant to do is go home and take a
shower and go to bed.
And then the next morning, likeyou said, you just wake up like
you got hit by a truck, likeI'm like thankfully they're not
doing that anymore, but I'm like, don't complain to me about it
yeah, don't, yeah, don't, yeah,yeah.

Qawnana (28:12):
Ironically, um, after I did that first show, I, I,
there was something that clickedin me.
It was like and I don't evenremember if I'd even gotten any
judges feedback yet, I justremember getting off the stage
and I was like I feel like Icould, I feel like I can make a
major change in my physique infour weeks.

(28:34):
And so I did another show, Idid Blacksburg four weeks later
and put the pictures side byside.
Blacksburg was what what bit meside, blacksburg was what bit
me.
It was Blacksburg.
Once I saw the huge change andMatt Shepley came up to me and
he said I don't know what youdid, but I noticed a significant

(28:58):
change in your physique just ina month.
I just saw you a month ago.
Yeah, and that was the thingthat used to creep me out about
him is that he paid attention toeverything and then he'd like
pull me to the side and quietlylike tell me something that he
knew.
And I'm like where I didn'teven know you were there.
I didn't, I didn't, didn't evenknow.
For a long time, I didn't evenknow who he was.
I just knew he was around allthe time with that camera and he

(29:19):
was just quiet, right.
But he just pulled me to theside and he'd just say something
and and I was like, okay, allright, this is my, this is my
jam, this is this is my thing,this is it.
Here we go, here we go.
So I, yeah, I, I.
Here we are 20 years later, 20years later.

Tina (29:41):
So, let's real quick, just kind of give a brief.
Okay, so how many shows haveyou done so just for reference,
like we don't have to do ourwhole history, but like how many
shows have you done like kindof what's your honestly history
from then till now?

Qawnana (30:00):
I what I?
What I will tell you is I don'tknow how many shows I've done,
because I've done that many, um,but I will tell you is I don't
know how many shows I've donebecause I've done that many, but
I will tell you that I did earnmy pro card in 2007.
So it started in 2005.
And in 2007, at thePresidential Cup, I won my pro
card.
I also that year got mynational qualification with NPC.

(30:25):
So at the time, you know, I hadthis national qualification
with NPC, but I also had my procard with IFPA is what it was
called at the time.
And for me it was.
I knew that by dibbling anddabbling in the NPC world.

(30:46):
I knew that those girls weren'tnatural.
But if I was going to step onthe natural pro stage, I needed
to step up my game.
Like, obviously I don't want togo spend all this money to lose
, but I also was very mindfuland realistic with my
expectations that I might notplace.
It all was about placing it inPC versus winning, because

(31:07):
there's 5,000 girls in yourclass, right.
So I challenged myself on thenational level so that I could
be a top contender on the pro,on the pro circuit.
Um.
So, from 2007, all the way upuntil 2013, 2014.

(31:27):
I competed as a pro 2013.
And actually I'm sorry, no, itwas 2013.
2013 was my last show.
May have actually been 2014.
God is so long.
Anyway, long story short.

Tina (31:46):
I went into retirement.

Qawnana (31:48):
I did a lot of shows, went into retirement and then I
came out of retirement threeyears ago and the plan was to go
back to figure and to go backto the OCB.
That was the plan go back tofigure and to go back to the OCB
.
That was the plan.
And in the middle of coming outof retirement and training and

(32:10):
prepping, I found out I hadbreast cancer.
And I knew immediately that,number one I needed to finish
what I started.
And number two I was going tohave to make an adjustment and
really fast to my plans tofinish what I started.
And number three this was goingto be the final curtain call,
like I knew it.

(32:30):
So I ended up switching a bikini, going to MPC and six weeks
from the time that I got mydiagnosis to the time I hit the
stage, so I was already in prep,right Like weeks and weeks and
months already in prep, but atsix weeks out from the show I've
got this diagnosis and had goto then.

(32:52):
And something I had never donebefore was I hired a coach so I
had to get him on video and tellhim how we were going to do
this, which he didn't like thatvery much that I was telling him
what we were going to do, but Ithink he had forgot, like who
he was coaching, who pays thebills, yeah and so anyway.
So we did that.
I went to Charlotte and, youknow, brought home some first

(33:15):
place hardware, got naturallyqualified in the three weeks
later, went and had a doublemastectomy.
So I don't know how many showsI've done, though, because I had
done so many and, like you,starting out hitting the ground
running, there were a lot ofshows in those first, like five,
six years, just back to back toback to back shows, and it

(33:37):
wasn't until much later that Istarted kind of tapering off and
not doing as many, but I juststopped.
I stopped even keeping count, Istopped writing it down, I
stopped, I just stopped.
I was just like you know whatI'm just, we're just going to go
, we're just going to.
So you may have an answer tothis question.

Tina (33:56):
I do, because my journey was a little different, I guess.
So I actually I mean, Iactually did sit down at one
point and wrote them all downfor my, just to put them on my
website.
It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10, 11.
I think it's 12 shows, if Ijust counted them correctly.

(34:19):
Yeah, I, you know, I went outlike gangbusters.
So when, uh, and did two showsthe fall of 2005, two shows the
spring of 2006, two shows thefall of 2006, and which is
another thing, when you knowbetter, you do better.
I absolutely won't let mythoughts beat that match.
Right, you get, yeah, uh, aseason, yeah, it was even too

(34:42):
much in my, in my opinion andyeah, every two years.
So it's we do spring, we dofall, we take at least 18 months
in between.
That's my recommendation.
So, and the reason why is so, Ithink I got the bug for the
wrong reasons.
A lot of unhealed childhoodtrauma reasons.

(35:05):
Right, I got the bug because Igot attention and I did really
well straight out of the gateand so I was chasing that.
Doing well and getting praiseand being popular is actually
not the word I want to use here,but being recognized, being
very much recognized.
Yeah, um, I was Tina the figurecompetitor, even though I had a

(35:26):
little person at home, I wasraising in a career and
everything else, like, I put myentire identity into this in a
in a very excessive and nothealthy way, um, and so did Eric
.
We were competing together,right?
So it took, you know, I did thattwo to you know, like six shows
in a year and, um, I was havingall this pain, um, all this

(35:52):
like joint pain and stuff, andso, in like January of 2007, I
finally went to the doctor, forI was already planning to
compete again in 2007.
I didn't know better yet, um,and found that I had, you know,
torn the labrum in my leftshoulder, torn my right bicep in
my you know, in my elbow, so Ihad torn basically the bicep in

(36:13):
both places.
Um, so I spent all of 2007having surgery because I had to
have separate surgeries, rehab,and then after that I went into
a really severe depression.
I gained a ton of weightbecause I was so all or nothing
at that I could no longer getthe attention that I wanted, or

(36:33):
you know cause Tina the figurecompetitor suddenly went away
and I'm not competing, and soI'm not, you know these are.
I'm in a much better place now,but this is the reflection that
I've had to do.
You know, over the years I wasstill competing so severe
depression, like literallycouldn't get off the couch for
days, kind of thing, and thatwas most of 2008.

(36:56):
And I finally, I thinksomething just in me clicked one
day and I was like you, youlike this got to stop, like I
still have a little person.
I still got, you know, worklike things like this can't
happen.
And so I slowly started, youknow, bringing myself out.
I wouldn't even go to the gym.
I was so embarrassed to go tothe gym because I'd gained so
much weight, because, again, Iwas Tina, the figure competitor

(37:17):
at the gym.
I looked different than peopleare going to think less of me,
right?
And so I, you know.
So 2009 was kind of my comebackyear.
I didn't look my best, but Iwas just really excited to get
back on on stage and sort ofhaving overcome that depression

(37:37):
and the injuries and all ofthose things, and I and I, it
was, that was the, all of thosethings, and I and I, it was.
That was the.
That was the change for mebecause I had to fight so hard
to get back on stage.
From the injuries, from thedepression, from the weight gain
, you know, just from everythingthat I realized it was, I was

(38:02):
no longer in it for the praiseand the accolades and the and
chasing the, whatever I waschasing, the, the challenge of
whatever it is I had to overcomewith every single prep from
that moment forward.
Right, I won't say that itdidn't matter if I didn't win,
but it didn't right, like I waslike right, I stopped throwing,
you know, feeling like I hadsomehow not one because and I

(38:26):
had injustices, because thisperson placed ahead of me, yeah,
because there was plenty ofthat Right Like, yeah, plenty of
that to go around, and I justrealized, like no, like I really
am doing this for me and Ireally am just trying to be
better every time I get on stage.
And and for me and I tell thisto my clients a lot too it's not

(38:49):
always that I even that I lookbetter when I get on stage,
cause at that point every seasonI had some kind of challenge I
had to overcome.
My life was different.
My little person was havingsome challenges, right Like you
know, there was just so muchgoing on that I just did the
best I could for that prep forthat show and I brought on stage

(39:11):
the very best that I could,even if that best was
unrecognizable to some other,best that I had done, right and
so so then I I really was justdoing it for the challenge of it
.
That even that, I think in someways, you know, uh took on its
own unhealthy uh obsession.

(39:33):
Um, some of that then startedturning into a means to avoid
some things that were going onat home.
Right, um, and Eric and myhusband and I have a wonderful
marriage but, um, like I said,we were really struggling.
We had some family issues goingon at the time with our son,

(39:56):
you know.
There was, there was a lot ofstuff going on.
We became Eric and I sort ofbecame this couple that competed
together and lived together butweren't together, like but it
was almost like whose gym timewas more important, who's like?
You know, if you get a callfrom the school, you know, oh,

(40:19):
I'm the one that always has togo right, like your gym so then
it just you know.
So, yeah, the reality is like,you know, my, we were avoiding
like having a healthy marriageand, you know, trying to be
there for the kid and like allof these things.
And so it was funny, in 2012,we were both prepping to or no,

(40:42):
we had.
We both competed in 2012.
That was the last year Icompeted.
It was like around the end ofthat year we were both beginning
to prep for 2013.
And I remember we had goneovernight somewhere for like a
New Year's Eve party.
We came home that so it waslike January 1st 2013.
And I think we were sitting inthe kitchen and we were both
just like something just clickedand I think we looked at each

(41:03):
other and and we were both justlike something just clicked, and
I think we looked at each otherand we were like I was like do
you want to do this anymore?
Not our marriage, I'm competing.
And we just looked at eachother and we just said we're
done, we're done.
And I never once had a regret.
I never once, you know, lookedback and thought I wish I had or

(41:24):
not.
But so in that timeframe for meand the, you know, I had the
that period off?
I actually did not.
So I got my bodybuilding procard in the one show I competed
in.
And I just tell people I I wonbecause I was the least fat on
stage that day, like nobody elseshowed.
I mean, there were like threeother people that showed up and

(41:45):
it just, you know, sometimesbecause you're the, you're just
the least of, yeah, you're thebest of the worst.

Qawnana (41:51):
This is what.

Tina (41:51):
I like to say, yeah, I hated that whole prep.
I didn't want to do it Right.
So, so, honestly, so everybodythat's chasing pro cards and
stuff, like I mean, good fine,even though I tell everybody,
just stop doing that.
But I didn't care, there wasnothing about that pro card that
meant anything to me, becauseit wasn't what I wanted to do in
the first place.
So I got that and then it took.

(42:13):
I got my figure masters procard at the OCB Atlantic Super
Show in 2009, um, so I finallygot my figure masters pro card
right.
So that was three years later.
And then I didn't get my figurefigure open pro card, pro card
until 2011, and that was withthe wmbf yeah, I remember that I

(42:43):
was there just introduced uh,fit body, the body.
Yeah, god bless you.
Thank you so much for myphysique, because then yeah,
because you knocked me out and Icould do uh, I could do the um
women's physique, which wasn't athing at the time poses.
Yeah, he's what WMBF?
So yeah, that year I got myWNBF figure pro card, my fit

(43:07):
body pro body yeah, I rememberthat and then I judged that show
.
Yeah, 2012, I competed in bothas a pro.
So 2012 was my first yearcompeting as a pro, as a pro,
and the last year I evercompeted.
And because I said I did it all, right, Right, I did, like now,
what I want to show as a pro, I, you know it's like so I did.

(43:31):
I did all those things and theother thing and yeah, I just I
um, I've talked about this in alot of our other podcasts, but
one of the really hard thingsfor me like I, I suffered from
binge eating disorder reallyhard things for me.
Like I, I suffered from bingeeating disorder.

Qawnana (43:50):
Uh, I, my disordered eating stems from a lot of
things, but competingexacerbated.

Tina (43:52):
Yeah.

Qawnana (43:53):
Yeah.

Tina (43:53):
Uh, so I would, you know the ridiculous bro diets leading
up to the show.
And then I was the girl thatyou, I mean, like I had a, you
know, a house full of food.
My suitcase was full of foodbackstage, like you.
Just you started like theminute you got off stage.
So I would, I mean, I was likeblowing up 20 pounds within days

(44:13):
after like every singlecompetition and it wasn't until
that was like one of thosethings that you know, I feel
like I had overcome so manychallenges physically, mentally,
throughout my competing process, but I'd never tackled having a
healthy prep and having ahealthy reverse, because reverse
dieting wasn't a thing backthen.

(44:34):
You just started eating andstopped going to the gym.
Everybody said take a week off,eat whatever you want.
That is literally the advice wegot.

Qawnana (44:39):
That's literally the advice people were giving.

Tina (44:41):
Worst advice on the planet .
So I did that and it wasn'tuntil 2011.
I worked with another coach whogave me he actually gave me a
meal plan, but I flexed it on myown.
So I had already started likelearning about macros and all of
this stuff back then and I waslike, well, do I really need to
eat a sweet potato?

(45:03):
Maybe I'll eat this, right.
And so I did that.
I flexed my way through mywhole diet, looked the best I'd
ever looked, felt the best I'dever felt.
That literally was my bestconditioning ever.
And then, after the show,because I didn't feel so
deprived, because it was thefirst time I didn't feel
deprived, because I just sort ofallowed myself to eat, like

(45:25):
know kind of thing, I didn'tbinge.
After the show, and so, becauseyou weren't depleted I wasn't,
I mean, I mean I was depletedbut I wasn't deprived right like
yeah yeah, you didn't sufferyeah and so by 2012 I had
figured, figured that out, I had, I had a healthy relationship

(45:47):
with food.
I had a healthy relationshipwith my body.
I, I won, you know, I won atitle in a pro show.
And then I was like and then wehad to go to therapy for a year
afterwards.
I mean, literally, we went tofamily therapy.
Yeah, because my son therapy isa good thing was 12 when we

(46:11):
stopped competing and our familyhad the.
The reality is, our familysuffered because eric and I
competed for 12 years.
That is the whole heart realityof it yeah, because it's a
selfish sport.
Um, there's a lot of good thatcomes with it, but there's a
whole lot of bad that comes withit when you don't do it in a
healthy way, and most peopledon't, um, so, yeah, so, and

(46:33):
eric did it.
Uh, he got back on stage andI'm looking at my wall because I
have a picture of him so in2018.
So he came into retirement too.
Um, because he had, uh, youknow, he had a full shoulder
replacement, yeah, year, but hedecided he was going to do it
one more time and he came out ofretirement in 2018 and won a
whole bunch of stuff with his,you know, after a shoulder
replacement, and then, yeah, Iremember that, because I also

(46:59):
judged that show too.
I remember that yeah, so alittle bit you know different,
you know you.

Qawnana (47:07):
You brought up some very, um, interesting points, um
, so, although my why startedout to be that it did in fact
change, uh, for me and you talkabout like just life taking a
turn, and I will tell you and Ihad to admit this to a therapist

(47:29):
that bodybuilding became moreof a escapism for me.
It started out as somethingthat you know, a childhood dream
I wanted to fulfill, and itimmediately became an
opportunity for me to run awayfrom pain.
Childhood pain, marital pain,pain, work pain, you name it.

(47:51):
All the pain, um, and it was.
I was very successful at beingable to, um, disassociate.
Oh yeah, I was the queen ofdisassociation.
And, on the same token, Ireally think bodybuilding saved
my life because, you know, outof the four cancers I've had,

(48:14):
three of them was duringbodybuilding.
And had I not been so in tunewith my body and knowing
something is wrong, I probablywouldn't be here to have this
conversation with you about 20years of bodybuilding.
Yes, and had I not been sodiligent about working with
myself right and taking controlover my physical space, I would

(48:39):
not have had the balls toadvocate for myself the way I
have with these doctors who liketo try to gaslight and play in
my face.
So you know, I think that Ithink people's lives change over
time.
I think that there is a darkspace in this sport of

(49:00):
bodybuilding that even if youdon't you intend to be there,
you end up there in somecapacity.
Some, some darker than others.
I, I would.
I would find it very hard tobelieve that there is one person
on the planet who's actuallyexperienced bodybuilding and
hasn't hasn't been in the darkroom at least once.
Because when you are in thatplace of depletion, that is when

(49:25):
you are really starting to tapinto your spiritual space and
you are figuring out andlearning a lot of the, let's
just say, the blinders come off.

Tina (49:39):
You have to face those things because you are, as Brene
Brown says, right literallyface down in the arena and it's
why some people are successfulin the sport and some people are
not.
Because if you're not willingto take the, to take the
blinders off and see the darkstuff, right, then you don't
make out of the dark stuff.

(49:59):
I tell you what?

Qawnana (50:02):
uh, I am even willing to admit that egoism is the
reason why I stayed in for aslong as I did.
I probably should have threw myhat in the ring a long time ago
and somewhere in the universeit was just like oh, so you
don't want to face theseproblems?
You got sitting in front of you.
Okay, go ahead and do that show.

(50:22):
I'm going to show you anexperience you've never had
before, and that experience wasthe day that I placed next to
last, and it was the first andonly time that it ever happened
to me.
And I'll be honest with you, Idid not know what to do with
that.
I was just like what the helljust happened?
And I hadn't accepted andacknowledged that leading up to

(50:44):
that particular show.
Well, first of all, earlier thatspring, I had just dealt with
colon cancer, find out, I hadearly stages of colon cancer,
was in the middle of prep andhad to have a colonoscopy Y'all
a colonoscopy like two weeksbefore the show.
So talk about placing withperspective, right, that was the

(51:07):
first time.
I was like all right, I placedfourth, Okay, cool Cause I
probably shouldn't have did thisshow in the first place.
It was really more aboutfinishing what I started.
I'd already spent all thismoney.
I did all this prep and also,just like I was blindsided, like
I was not expecting thatdiagnosis.
Luckily for me, it was early,they got everything and
everything was good, but I wasshocked.

(51:27):
I was in shock and so I did theshow anyway.
And I remember I remember WillUsher and someone else it was a
woman, it was only two peoplewho looked at me and were like
you're not okay.
And so that was the first timethat I'd actually done a show

(51:52):
and I wasn't good at hiding that.
I wasn't okay Because I got tobe somebody else at these shows,
because Q is not doing this,I'm not getting up there doing
that, like who I am off thestate, like I'm low-key, am not
doing that, like we're not doingthat.
So I created somebody else togo do that and we do it and I

(52:12):
get off the stage and it's mom,we're out of cereal.
And I'd go back to my regularscheduled program.
And let me tell you somethingeverything that I escaped to
prepare for that prep waswaiting for me when I got off
stage every single time.
So I always would tell myclients whatever you running
from honey, you better fix itbecause it'll be right there
arms open wide when you get offthe stage.

(52:35):
And it was something that washappening in my marriage and it
hit me hard.
It hit me like a ton of bricksand emotionally it was something
that was happening in mymarriage and it hit me hard.
It hit me like a ton of bricksand emotionally it did something
to me, but my body wouldn'trespond Like normally.
My body would respond to theprep and I'd do really well and
I'd go.
You know, business as usual.
But this was the one time mybody didn't respond well.

(52:57):
Everything was going wrong mywig, which I normally didn't
wear.
I had this point.
I had already ditched the wigs,but something was like put on a
wig and then I put on the wigand I was like I hate this wig
and the wig sucked.
Luckily for me, I had on a wigbecause the person who designed
my suit did a shitty job and itwas the first time I'd spent
that much money on a suit.
And I put the suit on the dayof the show and the tops was

(53:18):
popping open, so I had to takethe wig and part it down the
middle and hide my chest right.
It was just all this stuff,tina.
The suit wasn't glued down tomy ass, it was just so much
stuff.
It was the universe saying.
The universe was like girl, Itold you to quit, I told you to
retire, so I didn't, I didn'tlisten and I went to Atlanta and

(53:58):
I did that show and I placedsecond to last and I was just
like, well, I guess this is theend and let me go home and deal
with my stuff.
And it took me some years todeal with that stuff.
And you know, if you're alive,you're still dealing with stuff.
And I had said to myself when Icame out of retirement really
for me it was just want to knowwhat it's like to be a
bodybuilder and not beresponsible for other stuff.
The kids are grown, I'm notmarried anymore, it's just
literally me and that's it.
I hadn't even had Paisley yet.
It was just me, me and work.

(54:22):
And so I was like, because itwas such a lifelong dream of
mine as a child, I'd love to beable to have just this one time,
even if it's just this one timeof knowing what it feels like
to do my childhood dream withouthaving to juggle all the other
balls in the air.
The experience was differentand even with the diagnosis the
experience was different.
I was trying to people but oh,let me be a part of a team and
let me go people, cause I'dnever done that before, like
just trying to give myself stuffI thought I deserved.

(54:43):
But I don't.
I don't regret one moment ofthat journey, the good, the bad,
the ugly and the indifferent,and I I absolutely can agree
with it.
It wasn't the attention part forme, because actually I had

(55:04):
extreme stage fright.
People didn't know that Cause,again, I'm disassociated Like I
would I'd be somebody else.
So when people were like, oh,you're known for your
showmanship, I'm like, well,thank you, cause that wasn't me
up there, that was somebody Icreated.
Like I created a whole notherpersona to get up there and do

(55:25):
the things that I did.
But honestly, I think you and I, the one thing you and I did
both have in common was that, nomatter what we looked like, we
had confidence when we got onstage and you couldn't deny us
that we weren't shown, weweren't expecting to have the
best physique on stage, but whatyou wasn't going to do, no, you
weren't going to outperform us.

Tina (55:38):
No, ma'am, no ma'am.
Like, honestly, the stage partwas my favorite.
I, I am stage fright.
I used to be.
Well, I will say I no longersay I'm an extrovert.
I mean an extrovert.
I guess I probably still am,but I'm an extrovert that really
needs breaks, right, Like Ican't, like I, I enjoy peopling.

(56:04):
For a little bit I enjoyed awhole lot less than I used to.
I was a, I was an extrovert'sextrovert back in the day, Like
that was just my thing.
Yeah, I think I just the wholething.
Now I'm just exhausted andpeopling and I'm just.
You know, peopling is hard andit takes a lot to get me out of
the house and go do people stuff, Right, it's like the animal

(56:25):
stuff, Um, but but the stagepart for me was honestly the the
the most fun.
But you know, if I reallywanted to, you know, think, you
know, really get insightful, andI've had to do so much work,
you know, just childhood traumaRight.
And so in the in all the yearsof you know, doing, doing all of

(56:49):
that work, um, I don't have, Idon't have any regrets, um, for,
for anything that I I did, youknow, I'll be honest and say
there's one thing that really,you know, I don't think this
isn't a regret necessarily.
It's something that I havethought a lot about over the

(57:11):
years and having to do with myfamily and I had a regret, and I
try not to have them, because Ithink every regrets are really
just lessons that you learn,right, and so I think they're a
bad thing.
Right, I sacrificed so much timewith my family that I can't get

(57:38):
back and I truly believe in allthe kind of like uh
self-reflection that I've done.
That some of my uh littleperson at the time who was
having some issues, somebehavioral issues and things
that went on for many years,seemed to magically stop when I
stopped competing.
And so and I try really, youknow, people are like, oh well,

(58:02):
you can't blame yourself.
And I'm like, well, I don't,I'm not blaming myself, like I'm
not going to run around andjust recognize.

Qawnana (58:08):
but yeah, you recognize yeah.

Tina (58:11):
And and and if it does anything for anybody else
listening.
You know I am not going to sithere and say you're going to
ruin your marriage and your kidsand everything else If you
compete.
That's not the case.
But there are so many pitfallsto this sport and it is so
easily to fall into the holesthat this sport will create for
you to fall into.
Um, and it's just something tobe aware of.

(58:33):
Like, I have seen quite a fewmore than so many, so many
eating disorders.
I mean that, yeah, just acrossthe board.
But I've also seen more than I,really more than as a
coincidence of women whosedaughters end up with eating
disorders when we're competing.

(58:55):
I've seen it more than one.
I'm not saying yeah, I don'tknow if it's a correlation or
causation, but I've seen itMarriages that break up again.
It could be for better or worse, I do not know right.
Like I do have a lot of showson in people's homes.
But yeah, there's, you know itbrings up, you know it does.
It's very empowering.

(59:15):
The sport is incrediblyempowering.
I would not have discovered mypassion for coaching had it not
been to have met amazing peoplelike you.
You know the event is anotherone.
She is yeah, it's another oneof my spiritual friends.
Yeah, same, but she, you know,she's my people.

(59:36):
You know there are a handful ofpeople that I've met that I'm
grateful for, um, and this lifethat I have.
Like I, I loved coach.
I I never, I never, neverregretted stopping competing.
Like people are always like, oh, you don't ever think well.
Or I started on HRT, it wasyeah, it was fuck.

(59:57):
No.
Like I, I literally have nodesire right now.
It's really fuck no.

Qawnana (01:00:01):
I know yep.

Tina (01:00:01):
I'm definitely not.
Yeah, um, but yeah, I was likeno, like literally from 2012
until two years ago, when Istarted HRT for my health, like
I was like, uh, no, we're, no,I'm never getting back on stage.
I don't want to, I never.

Qawnana (01:00:17):
I think like that, I think everything has a shelf
life and I think that if youdon't know when to throw in the
towel, like, yeah, you, you know, uh, yeah, people that are that
still do it, don't you?
You got to know when to quit,man, you got to know when to
quit.
But you know, everybody's gotto find, everybody's got to find
that sweet spot.

(01:00:37):
Some people have, you know,have more time and and some
people don't, and um, I, youknow, I always tell people, um,
bodybuilding is what I did, it'snot who I am right because I
used to get put in a box withpeople all the time.
My favorite thing was oh, Igoogled you.
I didn't know you were abodybuilder.
I used to bodybuild.

Tina (01:01:00):
Right.

Qawnana (01:01:00):
I am not a bodybuilder.
I am a human being who happensto love all kinds of things.
I'm quite the nerd I like.
I love applied behavioralscience.
I love science in general.
I love Prince.
If you know me, you know, yes,right, like.
But bodybuilding is just a smallpart of who who I used to be in

(01:01:28):
some capacity, but is mostlywhat I did Not, really who I was
.
I I will say this as also amother.
Had I not?
And don't ask me where I foundthe energy, because I could not
answer this question but while Iwas bodybuilding and coaching
and working full-time andmanaging a marriage, I was also

(01:01:51):
a cheer coach and a track coachand the team mom for the
football team and at all thebands and all of the plays and
all the things and all the stuff.
Because there was this part ofme that felt guilty about being
so selfish as a bodybuilder.
Because you are so selfish as abodybuilder, you got to find
this balance.
But here's the thing somethingyou pay a price somewhere, you

(01:02:13):
know what, and I'm grateful mykids have those memories of me
being present and doing all thethings.
But sometimes I was just like Ireally do not want to be here,
and I really don't want to dothis with y'all.
I just want to go to bed.
But they don't listen.
This is not the NBA.
This is not right NASCAR.
This ain't the NFL.

Tina (01:02:32):
You did all this for a plastic fucking trophy.

Qawnana (01:02:34):
That's maybe $35 if you're lucky.

Tina (01:02:44):
And that's if it's like really big and tall.

Qawnana (01:02:46):
And oh, by the way, you can't throw them away because
there's no fucking room full ofthem and I still don't have mine
storage.
You can't.
I've already tried.
So, yeah, it's like.
You know.
There's a point.
This is where I wish that wehad people like us in our lives
when we started, just to give usa little bit of relief and some
grace from some of thechallenges, but at the same time
, we wouldn't be who we areright now, to be who we are for

(01:03:06):
other people, had we not gonethrough these journeys.
So you know, I'm like you.

Tina (01:03:12):
That we are, and so I'm grateful for all of the dumps we
had to do and go through andlearn so that I can hopefully
help somebody else not have togo through the same.
You know the same pain andsuffering.
I'm curious if we want to, ifthere was anything else you
wanted to add there.

(01:03:33):
But I'm really curious if, likejust your thoughts on body
building, where we are in a year.

Qawnana (01:03:43):
Well, I'm glad.
I'm glad you asked and I'mgonna take you for a walk with
me because I want to make surethat I got enough battery for
this part of the discussion Imight have to split this into
two podcasts because we'realready working on an hour, so
sorry, if you're listening,you're gonna.

Tina (01:04:00):
It may be split into two or I'll just keep it.
Hey look, if andrew hubermancan do three hour podcasts, we
can do three hour podcasts.
Y'all can just listen to it andspurts like in chapters exactly
.

Qawnana (01:04:12):
Well, so how I feel about the current state of
bodybuilding?
Um, I'm gonna try to keep itbrief, but I'm gonna try to make
sure I hit all the points Ijust can't number one I just you
and I started so I'm sorry, saythat again.

Tina (01:04:27):
I was talking over you.
I didn't mean to.

Qawnana (01:04:29):
I said where was wellness at when you and I
started right, because that was,that was us yes, On the top
still muscular, but big black,big old booties and legs.
I'm kind of in my feelings that,after you know we're all beat
up and and and retired in age,that they finally came out with

(01:04:49):
a category for for people likeus.
Yeah, and now you know, I'm atthis stage in my life where I'm
like no, I'm trying to get backto the body I used to have
before.
I had to go and transform itbecause of bodybuilding, because
I was fine.
Here's the thing I was alwaysfine with the way I looked.
You had to have really thickskin back then because they were
definitely telling me I didn'tfit and figure also like you.

(01:05:09):
So that's that.
I guess there's a part of methat's grateful for wellness,
but a little envious.
And then at the same time I'mlike but I feel like y'all are
going a little bit too faralready and we just got started.
Uh, I am sick of all of thedifferent categories and can we
just stick to the basics?

(01:05:30):
Um, cause the shows are gettingbig.
I'm so tired of more.
The shows are getting very longand drawn out, and oh my God,
getting very long and drawn out.

Tina (01:05:45):
And oh my god for the love of god, can we, can we just not
?
Um, I would.
I wish y'all like that, y'allare just going to be able to
listen to this, not see it.
But if you can see his faceright now I'm not posting the
video, but maybe I should, maybeI should Can we just so male
coaches.

Qawnana (01:06:03):
This one goes out to you and you know what Take, take
it, take it or leave it.
Can you?
Can you all please stop tryingto sleep with your clients, so
that people like me and Tinadon't have to actually then come
and clean up your mess,emotionally and otherwise?

Tina (01:06:17):
You've been there, done that.

Qawnana (01:06:20):
Um, I'm, yeah, the end.
I'll just leave it at that.
Take again.
Take it or leave it.
Um, I hate social media forbodybuilding.
Agree, um, I really hate socialmedia for bodybuilding.
I wish that social media couldonly be a place kind of like
what we had, um, um, forconnectivity and sharing

(01:06:42):
information, almost like themessage board type of deal.
But social media is um.
Social media has changed,completely changed the narrative
of bodybuilding and Iabsolutely hate it.
Um, for a multitude of reasons,and one of them be that the
more you post, I guess you'resupposed to win, and when I'm

(01:07:03):
sitting at the judge's table,that's, that's not what I'm
doing.

Tina (01:07:06):
I'm, I don't matter In some federations, but it is not.

Qawnana (01:07:11):
Yes, in some federations, it is true, not all
federations.
So yeah, thank you for thatclarification Um.

Tina (01:07:18):
I guess an actual requirement in the NBC.

Qawnana (01:07:21):
Oh my God.
Anyway, whatever I, what I willsay is because of social media,
maybe more there is moreexposure to, like the, the drug
use and, you know, sexualexploitation, that maybe was
always there that you and Ididn't get to see.

(01:07:43):
What I miss is the innocence,though, of a competitor just
being able to go pay their moneyto go do a show, meet some
friends and then go back to theregular lives.

Tina (01:07:52):
And it's not like that anymore.

Qawnana (01:07:55):
That's gone.
It's completely gone.
And if you aren't the coachesof the coaches and the who's who
of coaches like your athlete'snot getting a fair shot at
competing fairly because youain't with the right coach, like
what is that about?
And you and I have this incommon we're not here to rub
elbows and make friends andpeople with the people.
We're here to do a job andthat's it.

(01:08:17):
And I'm not about to makefriends with you all just so
that my clients can win.
And if you're that kind ofclient, if you need that, I'm
not your coach, like I'm not.
Yes.
And then, lastly, I would sayI'm glad that I got to bodybuild
.
When I got to bodybuild at thetime, that bodybuilding was
bodybuilding.

Tina (01:08:37):
Yes, yes, I'm going to, I'm going to piggyback on all of
that and say and go backwardsand say, yes, um, I'm glad we
competed when we competed, um,because it was the age of
innocence and bodybuilding, inthat sense at least, you know,
especially with the OCB, um, thephysiques on stage were

(01:08:57):
reasonable for you know, for um,and attainable for a lot of
people.
Um, uh, it was aboutfriendships and community and um
, and those are the people Ihave maintained relationships
with, you know, since right andsure, I see my, you know I see

(01:09:19):
people backstage like exchangingIGs, and now we're friends on
IG and you know we're going to,you know we're here to support
each other, yada, yada, blah,blah, blah.
But yeah.
So I remember doing a seminarand somebody asked me the
question do I think and this wasseveral years ago do I think
that social media has hurt orhelped body, natural

(01:09:39):
bodybuilding?
And I said, well, I think it'sa double edged sword, because I
think it has brought naturalbodybuilding in particular out
into the open and more peoplenow can and will participate.
I think that's amazing for thesport.
This was probably five, five to10 years ago, I can't remember.
The downside is everything elseright, it is the comparison game

(01:10:06):
, it is the who's who.
It is how much ass do you show?
It is the exploitation, it isthe comparison game, it is the
so and so.
It's 12 weeks out and so am I,but they blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
It is the the appearance ofpolitics in shows.

(01:10:31):
Right, and?
And like you, having judged in,I don't judge in the OCB
anymore because I usually haveclients in the show and they
don't allow judges clientsanymore, which is all, which is
great.
But you know, in all the yearsI judge shows and my husband
judge shows, yeah, yeah here.
Here's what politics means.
So I want to make sure we'reclear, right, politics is

(01:10:52):
somebody at the judge's tablesays y'all better all vote for
my, for this client on the stage, cause let everybody how this
works.
It is a panel of five to sevenpeople who now don't have
clients on stage.
Back then we may or may nothave had clients on stage.
But let's just do a scenarioright now Q, you and I we're at
a judge's table and there's someother folks there too.

(01:11:13):
I have a client on stage andyou have a client on stage, can
you have?
You could either of us tell therest of the judges to vote for
our client.
No, no, you cannot and no, thathappens.
So q's got a client, I got aclient, and the other people
don't give a fuck who.
Our clients are, right.
So they don't yep so no, theanswer is no, there is no

(01:11:35):
politics in that sense, right?
Can there be some unconsciousbias across a judging because of
you know, maybe you know aparticular look or a particular
thing?
Right?
That that's just.
That's just the nature of humanbeings and it's the nature of
the subjectivity in this sport.

Qawnana (01:11:54):
but psychology actually also.

Tina (01:11:56):
Yes, the you know, but yes , you yes, you know, there there
isn't politics in that sense.
Um, you know the appearance ofyou know the thing?
I'll tell you the.
The thing I hate the most,which I think piggybacks off of
sort of the, the age ofinnocence and bodybuilding is
that we competed for a differentreason.
Everybody, I would say 99 ofpeople that come to me that want

(01:12:22):
to compete, I want to get mypro card and I'm like fuck off
with that right, this secondright, like.
I'm like listen to me the firsttime you're getting on stage,
the second time, the tenth time.
What I do not want to hear fromanybody is I'm going for my pro
card.
I'm going to knock out whatsocial media has done to this
sport is.

(01:12:42):
Everybody thinks they deserve afucking pro card, as you
deserve, deserve as you talkabout entitlement, right,
entitlement.
It took entitlement till youknow however many shows it took
me to get my pro.
Six years, six years to get myfigure pro card.

Qawnana (01:13:01):
Well, there was a part of me that was chasing the pro
card.
But there was.
It wasn't like it is now.
Like I was chasing the pro cardbecause I wanted to challenge
myself more.
For me I was like, if I, if Ihit the pro ranks, it's now I've
got to really step up my gameand not be complacent with my,
with my training.
It was never really about like,oh, I'm a pro, like who gives a

(01:13:22):
damn.
Here's the thing I will tellyou now.
Most of us from back in the dayenjoyed the, the amateur market
, so much more.
It was so much funner when wewere just there as amateurs
doing our thing and kicking itup after the show.
I even guys say it.
They're like I had my mostexciting moments when I was on
the amateur circuit, when I hitpro.

Tina (01:13:41):
I didn't really love it as much, I tell clients to enjoy
their amateur journey, becauseenjoy the process, enjoy the
process and just, you know, putin the work and if it happens,
and if it doesn't, it doesn't,because that's not what this is
about anyway.
Because guess, guess whathappens when you turn pro?
The show's more expensive, youhave to travel because there

(01:14:03):
isn't going to be one in yourbackyard.
Yeah, you're going to start allover at the bottom.
I went from in the same season,from winning my pro card and
being I had been in the top two,three of like every show I'd
ever competed in my first figurepro show I play second to last
and I was like, wait, what Ijust spent my entire career in

(01:14:25):
like the top two or three andyou know I'm losing the overall.
Get all frustrated, but atleast I'm always in the top and
my first like what the fuck doyou mean?
I'm like six out of seven orwhatever it was.
I was like well, that sucksRight.

Qawnana (01:14:43):
Oh God.

Tina (01:14:45):
So, but you know, and then back to your points about you
know the categories and thedivisions and the.
I appreciate because I havealso promoted shows.
I you know Eric, same Right.
So, yep, same.
I appreciate because I havealso promoted shows.
I, you know air shows right.
So I have done you and I haveboth done this from every angle.

(01:15:06):
I've been a judge, I've been anamateur athlete, a pro athlete.
I have we've, we've promotedshows.
So I get it from every angle.
I get promoters want to makemoney.
It's expensive.
I get promoters want to makemoney.
It's expensive.
I appreciate the promoters thatgive a good experience.

(01:15:28):
Where I struggle is shows thathave not just okay, yeah, bikini
, figure, wellness, physique,cool, and then all the men's
stuff also cool, and then allthe men's stuff also cool.
But do we have to have 20different classes within each

(01:16:08):
one.
Right, do I, do I, and do a 35and a 45 and a 55 and a 65 and
do 100, I don't fucking care.
But you know then you, that'swhat's making these shows go on
forever, and it's like twopeople in each class, can we?
Just it's too much and I willbe honest, I have gotten a

(01:16:29):
little jaded over the yearsbecause of some of the changes
and because you and I have beenat so many shows.
I really struggle to be atshows and I try so hard to.
I want to.
I'm there for my clients, I tryso hard to enjoy it for myself
too, but it's getting harder andharder to do so because of some

(01:16:52):
of the backstage stuff rightthere are.
There are these teams of peoplethat are just, yes, not fun.
I'm not gonna say they're notteaching.

Qawnana (01:17:06):
They're not teaching their athletes grace, they're
not teaching them sportsmanship.
Sportsmanship is gone, it yeahsportsmanship has sportsmanship
and bodybuilding in 2025.
It is gone.
I miss that I misssportsmanship, camaraderie, the
sports camaraderie.

Tina (01:17:25):
I miss all of that.
The people you know, some ofthese quote-unquote teams of
people are just coaches.
They come in like they're, just, like they own the place.
Entitled, entitled, entitled wejust gonna keep throwing that
out there so, yeah, so the wholeand it's the athletes that are

(01:17:46):
entitled, it's the coaches thatare entitled, for one is
influencing the other, and viceversa.
Yeah, social media makeseverybody entitled yeah so I
think that's the word for theday.
Right like it this when you andI were 20 years ago, it was
about the love of thecompetition and the journey and
the sport itself.

(01:18:06):
I loved this.
I do not love the sport anymore, and there I said it.
I simply do not.

Qawnana (01:18:16):
So since you opened the door to and you admit it.
You don't love the sportanymore.
I am.

Tina (01:18:22):
I am also going to admit because I still have to.

Qawnana (01:18:25):
I still do this for a living and have a lot of you
know what but it's fair to behonest and um, and I also don't
love the sport anymore either,and I had to decide where do I
find, where do I feel like I canbe the most positive impact?
Currently in the, in the stateof where bodybuilding is Um, and
for me it's actually judging,and so I, um, I don't just judge

(01:18:52):
in the DC, maryland, virginiaarea anymore.
Um, I do judge solely for OCB I, I I just appreciate everything
that they've worked so hard toevolve it to what it's become
and, being that it was my firstlook, I'm so proud of that.
Definitely, I agree.
I love being able to connectwith other promoters in
different parts of the UnitedStates and travel around to

(01:19:13):
judge.
So that's where my lane,because I don't love
bodybuilding anymore.
This is actually, in fact, mylast year coaching.
I am going to be retiring fromcoaching.
So, tina, you're gonna begetting some folks, probably
Because, when they asked me,like, who do I recommend, you
literally are the first personthat come to mind for obvious,

(01:19:35):
these obvious reasons.
We speak the same language.
You have history, just like Ido.
So I know that anybody I sendto you, you're going to take
good care of them like you woulddo anybody else.
But also I, I'm, I'm.
I need to be selfish and giveback to myself and as much as
I've worked my body, I'm now inthis place where I'm working my

(01:19:57):
mind, I'm exercising my brain asmuch as I exercise my body and
I'm leaning more into that, butI still I'm like, I just feel
like I still have something tooffer to bodybuilding.
But for me and I'm going totell you why I chose judging
Because I remember being anathlete asking for judges'
feedback and I remember some ofthe craziest feedback that I

(01:20:21):
have gotten and thank god that Ihad thick skin and I wasn't
dealing with like bodydysmorphia or any other kind of
like psych.
I mean, listen, I also sufferedfrom depression and all these
other childhood things andtrauma and complex pcsd you name
it.
I probably had it, had it, butI never got myself so down in

(01:20:42):
the dumps with the feedback, butI used to get some really
jacked up feedback Tell me someGirl.
Well, okay, so first of all,you know, let me go ahead and
just put this out here.
Not only did we start way backwhen remember, there wasn't that
many black girls also competingback then for a long time it

(01:21:03):
was like me, katrina Roundtree,and like maybe one other person,
like for like, so I'm so.
So before I go down this rabbithole of why I don't like
bodybuilding anymore, I will sayI am so happy to see the
diversity of bodybuilding whereit's become, especially with
women.
I remember going rebellious andI was like, damn that I'm not
wearing a wig, cause I hadjudges telling me that I needed

(01:21:26):
a longer wig and I needed allthis stuff and I'm like I'm not
wearing this shit.
So I cut all my hair off andstarted rocking the pixie cut,
and that's what I was known forwas the short pixie cut.
And listen, you couldn't tellme I wasn't cute with the pixie
cut, because then I startedreally feeling myself on stage
and feeling myself.
But I've had women come up tome later and say, because of you

(01:21:46):
, like you laid these grassroots, because of you I felt inspired
to go and compete, because ofyou around tree.
So I've had black women come upto me but then to see, like the
Asian community and just theLatin community.
And so I'm happy about thatpart, because it was lonely
there when I started and forabout five minutes I almost

(01:22:07):
wanted to quit.
Yeah, because I did deal with alittle bit of racism in
bodybuilding when we firststarted, but it was more so.
This is another reason why Igravitated towards back to stay
with OCB and decided, okay, thisis my lane, because I didn't
feel that there I could take mykids to a show and you probably
had your little boy at your showand somebody else had their

(01:22:29):
kids and it was a family affairand my kids didn't feel like
intimidated and scared by theenvironment.
But I remember, in thewheelhouse of NPC, I remember
dealing with extreme of NPC.
I remember dealing with extremeracism.
I remember dealing with extremeracism.
But when it came to the judgesfeedback though, whether it was
OCB or otherwise, back thenagain, because judges and

(01:22:52):
coaches there were no coachesfor figure, there were no women
coaches.
There wasn't.
They know what to do withfigure, it was just you know
your ass is too big, likeliterally.
Know your ass is too big, likeliterally flat out.
Your butt is too big.
You need to bring your buttdown.
You've got this tiny waist butyour butt is just taking over
your whole physique.
And, like, I remember one judgeand it was a woman, so I guess

(01:23:13):
she figured because she was awoman.
She could just like saywhatever the hell she wants,
like she just had free reign tobe so open and honest.
She was like I have never seena butt as round as yours.
Like I literally wanted to justput my purse on your butt and I
was like, all right, that'strash.
Like that.
I got to a point where I wasjust like I can't even I got to

(01:23:35):
pick and choose.
Do I even want to get judgesfeedback?
So I got to a point where whereI was like I'm not even getting
judges feedback, no more.
And I started printing out myown pictures and I started
putting them up on a mirror andI would get a red pen and I
would circle and I'd smiley faceand I'd x through this and I
started analyzing myself becausethe judges feedback was

(01:23:55):
absolutely trash and yeah, andI'm not gonna call no out, but
there was one guy in particular,and this was when you could be
a judge and have a spousecompeting or have a cousin
competing or you have a clientcompeting or what have you.

(01:24:17):
And I knew, I knew based on thefeedback, that I was getting,
compared to this, to this woman,like you need to bring this
kind of physique, and in my mindI'm like this is rich coming
from you, cause, like, you havea relationship with this person
and like, and so when I became acoach which, honestly, I became
a coach in 20, 2007, 2008, likethe end of 2007, like I started

(01:24:42):
coaching you and I both yep.
And then when I started judging, the first thing I started
saying to my clients is I don'tknow you today of the show, I
don't know you, and that was whyI ended up hiring a whole team
and I, you know a staff and theywould take care of my clients
and and I literally would lookat him with a dead, dead ass
face and I'd say here's thething.
I know what I did for you toget you here.

(01:25:05):
However, the, the glasses thatI'm wearing at the at the table
are different pair of glasses?
Yeah, and I'm going to placeyou exactly where you should be
placed, based on the criteria,and be prepared for the feedback
I'm going to give you.
I'm going to do it with somegrace and some tact, but I'm
going to let you know exactlywhy I placed you where I placed
you and how potentially youplaced where you placed.

(01:25:28):
I'm going to do that.
So I was grateful when theychanged the rules and I happily
am like I got a client in thiscategory.
Let me get from the table.
I love that now.
I love that they put that inplace.
I don't know how many othercoaches had that integrity, but
one thing that I didn't want Ididn't want nobody accusing me

(01:25:48):
of not having integrity, becauseI back then had larger team.
I had a big team of girls too,and I would bring my girls and
then they'd want me to judge andI would even say, no, I've got
a team.
Well, you know, we still wouldlove to have you judge.
We just think you're a greatjudge.
So I decided that until I'mready to completely be done with

(01:26:12):
bodybuilding, like that's it,no more bodybuilding at all.
Judging is where I'm going tosit.
That's the seat I'm going tosit in because I take my time,
even if the athletes don't likethat, I'm taking my time.
I'm taking my time to give youreal, genuine feedback, and how
I know that it's good genuinefeedback is because of the

(01:26:34):
response I'm getting back fromthe athletes.
This was really helpfulfeedback, you know.
Thank you so much for this.
Now I have something measurableto use.
My coach is going to appreciatethis also, or, you know,
sometimes I might get.
Well, this is the best feedbackI've ever gotten.
The other judges didn't even,you know, put this much Like so

(01:26:55):
for me.
That's how I know that.
This is how I knew this is mylane and it was because of the
athletes.
The athletes spoke to me, but Iam.
This is my.
I have a client right now whois preparing and I told her I
was retiring.
She said, okay, I guess I'mretiring too.
I guess we're retiring together.
So I'm getting her through thisyear and then that'll be it for

(01:27:16):
me as far as coaching I'm done.

Tina (01:27:22):
I have a five-year plan to be out which coincides with
maybe four years now I'm losingtrack of time but it coincides
with Eric and I moving out ofthis area and down to South
Carolina, which is our plan.
Okay, I have.
I will always coach in somecapacity.

(01:27:44):
I have been coaching in somecapacity for 30 years, whether
it was in the government orwhatever.
So I will always coach.
I loved coach.
I do equine assisted coachingnow.
So my, my passion hastransitioned into helping with
other aspects of their livesthat don't involve starving them
to get on stage.
For like I've just, and for me,like it has I, I've really it's

(01:28:11):
.
It's a shift in perspective forme as I've aged and being in my
now, knowing what I know,experiencing what I'm
experiencing in midlife, andjust my own growth right over
the years, like I want to helpwomen live long, healthy, joyful

(01:28:33):
lives Right, and so that doesnot always involve in fact, 99%
of the time, it most certainlydoes not involve tracking every
single macro that you eat.
You know starving yourself foran unrealistic look, and I'm
again, I'm not saying that therearen't positive things for all
of that.
I wouldn't have done it for somany years if I had, but my

(01:28:55):
perspective has shifted and Iwant to help women men you know
that I coach be well in otherareas of their life, and so
that's where my coaching hasshifted and I work.
I re-found my passion forequines and being with horses
and being able to share thatwith other people and doing my

(01:29:18):
withers and wellness and equineassisted coaching.
So that's just taking me downanother path, but I have wanted
to quit the sport a lot, sothere's a little piece of me
that's a little jealous that yousaid you were, you were
retiring.
But I'm always, you know, I'malways concerned to put this out

(01:29:39):
into the universe because I Ido still plan to coach in the
sport, and so I, you know, ifanybody hears this and is like,
oh well, she doesn't want to becoaching, so I don't want her as
my coach, that's not, that'snot true.
I still believe, I still knowthat and, yes, I am one of the
best coaches out there for awoman.

(01:29:59):
Am I going to get you a pro card?
I can't promise you that.
Am I willing to go to the mostextreme lengths to make you a
certain way on stage?
The answer to that isabsolutely not.
I will get you on stage withthe health healthiest mental,
physical, emotional andspiritual capacity that I can.

(01:30:20):
I'll be 100% honest in tellingyou what I think, what you
mental, physical, emotional andspiritual capacity that I can,
um, I'll be a hundred percenthonest in telling you what I
think, what you know, where youbelong, where you should be,
what we should be doing you know, so on and so forth.
I will talk more people out ofcompeting than I will into
competing at this point in mylife.
Um, and I'm very choosy aboutwho I will coach, because I'm
not interested in um will coachme.
I'm not interested in helpingsomebody be crazier than they

(01:30:45):
already are.
Right, like I'm just.
I'm just making somebody's life.
It's not in that business.
So I know that I still have aplace here because you know what
, what, what my clients tell me.
They're like, well, you couldquit and people are still gonna
compete and now they're justgonna go to some other wackadoo
that's just gonna ruin theirlife so yeah, like, yeah, I got

(01:31:06):
that same comment we need youhere to keep doing this, so that
you know there aren't even morewomen that need to be saved
from the bullshit that they getfrom you know unfortunately a
lot of male coaches.
I'm not.
There are some male coaches.
I'm not.

Qawnana (01:31:20):
There are some male coaches out there but there are
some really good male coaches,but there are some really bad.

Tina (01:31:26):
You know, I'm not, I'm actually not just saying men,
because I've had plenty ofclients from from bad, bad, uh
female coaches bad coaches ingeneral, yeah, but yeah, there's
back, there's original thingabout bad feedback, I will tell
you like.
So, on the racism side, I havenot experienced that, but I have

(01:31:48):
clients experience that I youknow a black female client of
mine compete me, npc, who wentin with her natural hair.
I mean incredible physique,like beautiful physique, you
couldn't deny it.
And the feedback was this isabout beauty, after all, don't

(01:32:08):
be afraid to wear a wig.
As if she weren't beautifulwith her natural hair, which of
course she was.
But that was the feedback andit sounds like it was pretty
similar to the feedback you weregetting, and but in terms of.
So two of my favorite feedbacks, the literal feedback, has
stuck with me.
One was you should have curledyour hair more.

Qawnana (01:32:32):
What does that have to do with your physique?
Nothing but okay.

Tina (01:32:36):
Yeah, if you can see my face right now, that's just
right.
Um, and then the other was, andI had to look this word up.
She said your countenance onstage was off-putting.
I was like what the what iscount?
I was like, what is that?
Right?
I was like I had to go look upthe word.
So it was basically what Ithought was confidence.

(01:32:59):
Right, my, by the way, that Iproject my confidence on stage
apparently was off-putting tothis particular female judge.
I was too confident, I looksmug, maybe I, I don't know,
like all I.
I was like, okay, I, you know,I was like.
And then I had another one thatsaid there was something about

(01:33:23):
my lipstick liner and okay,we're grasping at straws at this
point, like.

Qawnana (01:33:29):
so I was like yeah, okay, so again.

Tina (01:33:32):
So back to the point.
You know, if we're just talkingabout judges feedback in
general, I appreciate that you,you know, as a judge, you take
your time to give it.
I have the, the bullshitfeedback that I, you know, cause
I have all my clients send mewhatever feedback they get, and
then I I tell them how to askfor feedback, I tell them go
over this feedback together.
I also them that you know, youknow some of it, you know we'll,

(01:33:55):
we'll look at it and go, yep, Iagree, some of it might not
hold any way.
I know what you need to work on,right I will take pictures and
sometimes I can tell you, like Ialready know what the athletes
going to, know what we need towork on and know where our weak
points are.
And if I look at you next tothe other people on stage, most
of the time I can go okay, well,like I can see, they went with

(01:34:19):
this and not that, becauseeverybody showed up looking like
this.
It made you look like that.
You know how, you know how thatworks.
So, um, I mean, there areplenty of times that I, I can't
explain it and I just, I just go.
I don't know what happened onthat stage.
Like I can't, literally, I'mlike I got nothing.
I can't tell you what they werelooking for, I can't explain
why they picked this over, thatyou know.
Sometimes I simply can't.

(01:34:40):
Um, it's the nature of thesport.
But yeah, those were kind of my, my, my favorite.
I will say I'm very gratefulthat the OCB has put so, you
know, so many of the rules andregulations, and that they have,
because I recently had a prettyegregious bit of feedback.
One of my clients got at a showwhere they gave verbal feedback

(01:35:04):
, not written, which is alreadyagainst the rules, already
against the rules and you know,telling her exactly what she
needed to do to change herphysique told her to stop eating
fruit, told her to start doingHIIT training.
The only vegetable she shouldeat is broccoli, and that was it
Right.
That was her little feedback,but I will say, I took that to

(01:35:28):
the OCB and they took care of it.

Qawnana (01:35:30):
Right and I was like, yeah, and I believe that social
media right, Like I wasn'trunning around and playing about
it.
They just wanted to have heardit.
Yeah.

Tina (01:35:38):
I appreciate that they've you know that, that they've
standardized that and put it inthose things.

Qawnana (01:35:43):
But you know, they've also, like you know, just just
cause I can speak on this, weare required to actually, we're
required to actually take these.
You know, these seminars andthese forms and these classes,
and I remember one year, sully,was like Q, like why are you in
this?
Why are you on this Um this,why are you on this meeting?

(01:36:05):
Like you've already done likethree or four of them and I'm
like it's fine.

Tina (01:36:14):
It doesn't hurt to.
It doesn't hurt to hear itagain as many times as I need to
hear it like it doesn't.
It's fine.
Yeah, eric is Eric.
Yeah, he still judges.
So he's, yeah, it's through him.
And of course, I usually listenbecause it's, you know, zoom
and he's got it, you know goingon.

Qawnana (01:36:23):
So, yeah, yeah, I all right.
So that that is where I feellike you know, know, I'm not
like, like, so I'm not reallyquite ready to totally give up
the bodybuilding world yet, butI just feel that you will be a
good.

Tina (01:36:38):
Knowing that there are good judges behind the judges
table means a lot to you.
Know coaches and athletes.
You know putting their athleteson stage knowing that they can
trust who's on the judging panelto do the right thing.

Qawnana (01:36:50):
With coaching.
I want to leave people betterthan I found them Like.
That's how I felt aboutcoaching and as an athlete.
These athletes are wanting toimpress us.
They want it's like mom, look,I got an A.
Like they want to make us proudand so, no matter where they
place and what their why is andwhy they hit the stage, at the
end of the day they're humanbeings and we are talking about

(01:37:12):
their bodies.
Like you gotta be mindful abouthow you talk to somebody about
their physical space, for God'ssakes.
Like you don't know what kindof I mean.
Again, we just talked about howthree of my four cancers
literally was as I was abodybuilder.
Some of those times that was avictory for me, I was stepping
bodybuilder.
Some of those times that was avictory for me, I was stepping
on stage, feeling victoriousbecause I just I just overcome

(01:37:35):
cancer again.
So to have some judge come outof pocket with some BS feedback
that holds no substance and nowI have nothing to use, no
measurables to go and improve.
Like again, it's a good thing.
I had thick skin, you know, andI had an awareness of realizing
, like okay, but also you'rethis chocolate girl who you know

(01:37:58):
at the time, the industryhadn't really evolved to more of
me yet, and it was brutal.
It was brutal and I just I'mlike you know what I want to be
the change.
It was brutal and I just I'mlike you know what I want to be
the change.

Tina (01:38:26):
No-transcript when I get tired of I still feel like I got
hit by a truck after a show,having even just sitting at the
judge's table.

Qawnana (01:38:35):
So when I get tired of torturing myself there, then
I'll completely hang up my hat.
But I, I feel like, um, I feellike there's just a little bit
more juice there, um, but whenit comes to the emotional
support, the psychologicalportion of bodybuilding, I'm
done with that part because Ireally want to pour more into

(01:38:59):
myself and, like you, I'vealways been a coach.
I will continue to coach atother capacities.
I am currently getting a degreein applied behavioral science
and working on using that toolto navigate in another, in a
different space, with coachingand not looking to be a

(01:39:19):
therapist or anything like that,but definitely more along the
lines of teaching.
Maybe some, some seminars,maybe some TED talks who know,
you never know with me.
That's more of the directionthat I'm ready to head and again
, look forward to going to showsand seeing my peeps.

(01:39:41):
You know, but you know,apparently, what are the names?
There were so many.
There's Throwback, there'sVintage, there's Old School, the
OGs.
Yeah, yeah, are the names there?
There were so many.
There's throwback, there'svintage, there's old school, the
oldies.

Tina (01:39:54):
Uh, yeah, yeah, and I don't know how many more, how
many of us are really left whenI think about it on a broader
scale that are still likeactually actively involved yeah
it's not many and it's not many,and I think a lot of people
don't know who the fuck we areright and you know what, and I'm

(01:40:15):
gonna try not to feel in myfeelings about that.

Qawnana (01:40:18):
Sometimes I know, but sometimes I do, sometimes I do
and then sometimes I'm actuallyglad.
Yeah, sometimes I'm like whatyou mean?
You don't know what do you mean, you don't know who I am, and
then I'm like what you mean, youdon't know what do you mean,
you don't know who I am, andthen I'm like you know what?
I'm actually glad Cause now Idon't have to have a surface
level conversation with you Likethis is great, no small talk

(01:40:41):
from you, this is wonderful.
You know, um, so I, you know,so I I took the line some.
Some days I'm in my feelingsand some days I'm really
grateful that people don'treally know the line.
Some.

Tina (01:40:50):
Some days I'm in my feelings and some days I'm
really grateful that peopledon't really know.
Yeah, you know, it's funny yousaid that actually because I
feel like sometimes I feel thatway.
It shows there.
You know most of the localshows I run into, at least you
know 10 people right that thatuh, you know sort of kind of OGs
or you know coaches that I have.
You know, even if it's just aprofessional relationship with a

(01:41:11):
high buy there there are plentyof people that I see that I,
that I have to.
Uh, eric calls it my this, thisis not just for women but he
calls it my hey girl face.
He said you got your on whereyou just like girl, right, like,
and it's not just girls, butthat's just how he, that's how

(01:41:32):
he puts it.
There are plenty of people Ihave to like.
I tell my clients all the time Iwas like listen, I was like
y'all don't even know how muchbakery I have like, because I I
do maintain professional witheverybody, and I'm not saying I
dislike everybody, that I say hito that is not what I'm saying,
so don't feel as hurt hurt nexttime we're at a show.

(01:41:52):
But yeah, there are people.
So I think how we started thisconversation right, it was like
were you genuinely?
It's like that hug from you, ahug from Yvette like this, like
it just fills my spirit up, itfills my soul up, I know that
you're genuine.

(01:42:14):
And then there, are those thatI'm just like, you know, it's
like a hug and I'm like, hey,I'm just like man.
Nobody knows me here and youknow what?
I'm just going to hang out withmy clients and that is by me
and I don't it's.
I don't need anybody to give me, you know me you know.
But, um, you know now that we'vebeen doing this for almost two
hours, I want to.

(01:42:35):
Yes, so you had written somestuff down, so I make sure if
there's anything else we didn'tcover, but like if you had, like
, this may sound like your, yourfavorite thing about the last
20 years, or having been in thesport, or your, um, just what's
your, your takeaway, orsomething you can give to others

(01:42:57):
as a takeaway, like yourtakeaway.
I'm actually more interested inyour takeaway, like what's
really, hmm, well, just you,maybe it's the most maybe I'm
asking the question wrong Likethe most impactful, the most,
maybe.

Qawnana (01:43:10):
I'm asking the question wrong, like the most impactful.
Well, okay, no, that that's so.
Actually, it's funny that youasked that question, because how
I wanted to end this was therewere two things that I wanted to
make sure that I did, to kindof close the portion of what I
needed to say about the past 20years.
Um, and the first thing is, youknow, number one, thank you for
indulging me in this, in thisconversation.

(01:43:32):
My heart is so full, my cup isfull.
I wanted to make sure that Igave you your flowers.
I wanted you to hear from me,while we're of the same mind and
body still, you know, and haveour memories intact for the most
part.
I wanted you to hear directlyfrom me, and not at a show when
things are busy just how much Ihave appreciated you over these

(01:43:56):
years and how proud I am of youand watching you evolve right To
to who you've become.
And just, I'm watching you too,like you know, on social media,
like you said earlier when westarted this conversation, we
don't hang out.
We're not key Canada, we don'tgo on girls trips and all this
other stuff.
We have a different definitionof what friendship is, and this

(01:44:18):
is a great example of explainingto people that friendships are
not as in a box as people wouldlike to think that it is.
There are different levels tofriendship and this is a great
example of that.
And, just like watching yourson grow, we both something else
we had in common we both hadchildren in the military that

(01:44:38):
are stressing us out with what'sgoing on in their lives right
now.
And you know we we have bothgone through illnesses and
sundowns in marriages andworking through childhood trauma
and trying to find our, ourspiritual space and just trying
to find our place in the world.
And even though we come fromtwo totally different walks of

(01:45:01):
life, we're not really thatdifferent, right?
And I just wanted to make surethat, like this year, this year
in general has been a year ofreflection for me in so many
ways for a lot of differentreasons, and that was why I
reached out to you and I wasjust like you know what.
I just want to have a goodconversation about the good old
days, and I wanted you toverbally hear from me how much I

(01:45:24):
greatly have appreciated this20 year journey with you, and I
couldn't think of a betterperson to have had these
memories with.
You were the only person Ithought of.
You were the only person that Ithought of, and I've known so
many people right, just like you, throughout these 20 years, but
you were the one.
And when I say to my familyy'all know little Tina, they

(01:45:46):
know exactly about.
So when I told them that wewere doing this, they're so
excited, they can't wait to hearbecause now they get to go back
down memory lane with us andyou know I.
So thank you for indulging me.
Um, and then lastly and I'mgoing to try not to crash here
it comes thank you.
I could not end thisconversation without talking

(01:46:09):
about Matt Shepley, because ifMatt Shepley hadn't done what
he'd done, you and I wouldn'thave become friends and we
wouldn't be where we are rightnow.
We have him to thank for ourfriendship, we have him to thank
for our journey and Ipersonally have him to thank for
creating a seat at the tablefor me.

(01:46:31):
He created so many seats.
He saw things in me that Ididn't even know existed.
When it came to promoting, whenit came to judging I wasn't
thinking about judging thoseshows that was Matt.
That was Matt.
Shows, that was matt, that wasmatt.

(01:46:56):
Um, just again coming up to meat these weird times and just
whispering in my ear that henoticed something up on you.
You wouldn't even know and he'slike you know how tall he is,
right and so and so, and it'sprobably even more for you
because you're shorter than I amand you know, you know, and and
and, not knowing, he had such aweird sense of humor and like
he'd be sitting next to me, I'dbe at the judge's table with the
microphone by the way headjudging, and he'd lean in and

(01:47:19):
he'd say something and I look athim and I'm like, was that a
joke or were you being serious?
Cause I could never figure itout.
So I just started laughing ateverything he said and just I
was like I'm just laughing ateverything, but I just I want to
.
I want to say that, in themidst of all the excuse my

(01:47:40):
language it's my favorite wordthough the bullshit, the
bullshittery of life.
There are times when you haveto sit back and you have to
remember that it's not all bad.
And there are moments like ourjourney good, bad, ugly.
And there are times when youhave to sit back and you have to
remember that it's not all bad.
And there are moments like ourjourney good, bad, ugly and
indifferent.
And people like Matt Shepley,who had a vision, he brought it
to life and he created a spacefor people like me and you to be

(01:48:01):
able to become the women thatwe are today, to be able to show
up for other men and women.
And I don't know that the wordgratitude is large enough, but
that's the word I'm going to use.
I'm grateful for it all.
I don't even think there's onemoment in particular that I can.
Well, there is this one reallycute moment that I hope I never

(01:48:23):
forget.
So if I lose my memory, you andEric needs to remind me of this
, I do have a picture.
It is the show, and I think itwas 20, it was 2006 and they did
a pushup contest and they gotthese bodybuilders who were
depleted, up there doing abodybuilding contest and my
little girl and her oversized byOCB t-shirt that we had just

(01:48:45):
gotten in our swag bag and herflip-flops was like mom, I want
to do the pushup contest, onlykid up there, only little girl.
And they let her get up thereand she's next to eric and they
don't have them just doing anykind of push-ups, they got them
like holding it halfway Iremember that and and, and she
was just as cute as she can,looking, looking from left to

(01:49:06):
right, looking at all the guysas they were all flapping and
hitting the stage, and she won,won, she won, she won the pushup
contest.
And I remember Eric saying,well, of course she won.
She's like five pounds.
She probably had a sandwichbefore she came up here.
It was so cute.
She's like in this picture withher little braids, right next
to Eric doing this pushupcontest, and I was like, see,

(01:49:27):
it's just little stuff like that.
It's just, it's little stufflike that.
And I don't even know, I don'teven what sad is, I can't even
tell you what.
What I placed at that show.
I think I went for the overalland lost, lost the overall, and
if I, because I think it waspresidential cup, if I can.
But I don't remember what I didat the show.
I just remember that part ofthe show was so stinking cute I

(01:49:49):
I just love that it was a familyenvironment.
I love that my kids got to havea front row seat to watch your
mommy go, do, go live out herchildhood dream, and I couldn't
do that anywhere else.
I couldn't.

Tina (01:50:00):
Yeah.

Qawnana (01:50:01):
I couldn't.
I loved it all.
I would, I loved it all.

Tina (01:50:06):
I, I really did too, I think, think, even though I get
a little curmudgeony aboutthings.
20 years later, yeah, it wasbeautiful back then, it was
truly life-changing and you'reright, you know, matt Shepley is

(01:50:26):
why I mean, you know, and a lotof people don't don't really
know him, you know, they didn'tget to experience, you know,
growing up in the sport with himand, um, you know he, you know,
go doing the seminars with him.
And we even did this local herein in Bowie.

(01:50:48):
Um, it was Matt, me, eric,rochelle Cannon and I forget
there was another guy no, Ican't remember who it was and we
did one of the local.
We did an interview for one ofthe.
You know, you know, your littlelocal tv, not like 84 is like
whatever your public newschannel thing um, and I remember

(01:51:12):
that moment and so many momentswith him and with, like, our
original OG crew.
Um, I remember a group of uswent up to Sully's and Sully was
our coach at the time and hewas his.
Spirit of America is anothershow that was near and dear to
my heart and we all travel.
It was me and Eric and Yvetteand, uh, kareem Petaway Remo, I

(01:51:36):
don't call him anything, I don'tknow him any other way.
Um, and Doug and Stephanie, andwe all stayed with with Sully
and Deb and right, like we werejust like people all over the
place, and you know, and it wasjust, and we just, we all went
up there as a group.
Those were the like people allover the place and you know, and
it was just, and we just, weall went up there as a group.
Those were the OTs to help himwith his show.

(01:51:58):
With his show.
It was amazing that the family,the group of us that you know
just, were together from thebeginning.
just, we're together from thebeginning and and, like you said
there's, you know, I havereally enjoyed watching the
success of like doug andstephanie, and they're, you know

(01:52:18):
, they're god yes, I feel likeI'm, like I knew them when, uh,
and philip ricardo, you knowhe's another, yes, I'm watching
you know his rise and andmarshall, and yes, and, and, and
you and I and you know Joe, joeFranco, and you know, and just
those are the people I rememberbeing on those OCB chat boards.

(01:52:40):
We've been there from thebeginning and I have loved
watching the success that noneI'm I truly believe all of us
would have been successful inwhatever we did, right, you
don't, you don't.
If you're going to besuccessful, you're going to be
successful.
But yeah, we were like togetherin this bubble, right, yeah,

(01:53:02):
that it was a bubble thatcreated to have gotten to watch
everybody sort of flourish fromthis and I, and, and at the core
of it all was naturalbodybuilding, right, so again,
we all could have been greatbusiness owners and corporate
whatever, but we got to.

(01:53:23):
I got to have a front row seatwatching this and I will say
that that is, that is a goodthing about social media.
Otherwise I would not know andsee the kids growing up.
So I, I, I appreciate that, butit really is I wouldn't have
gotten to have thoserelationships, I wouldn't have

(01:53:44):
had this relationship with you,um, and have been a part of your
life and and hearing you saythat you know about me, it's
just it, just it means the worldto me because, like I said, I
get a little stuck in my headabout where I am Right and
sometimes and and to to feellike I've made a positive

(01:54:08):
difference on somebody's life isthat's all I'm here to do,
right, and so that's like, atthis point in my life, that's
all I care about is again livingmy own joyful life, whatever
that, whatever that entailsgetting through the bullshittery
of life, as, as you said, likethe lifey things as we were
talking about before we started.

(01:54:29):
You know, I think ourconversation when we first
started was like so how are you?

Qawnana (01:54:33):
well, it's like life and life and we're just, we're
just doing the thing.

Tina (01:54:49):
Um, I could complain about lots relationship.
If I could say anything toanybody listening to this that
gives a fuck.
At this point, two hours later,I might be new to the sport and
or, having only been in thesport for a little while, is you
know here it's.

(01:55:10):
It's about the community, it isabout the friendships, it is
about the journey you take foryourself.
It is not about the likes andthe looks and the pro cards and
the you know, and it's just notum in the end, because you can't
take any of that stuff with you, right?
And when you reached out to meand you said that you know it's,

(01:55:34):
it's the relationships you wantto that stuck with you, and
that you wanted to remember yourexact words, that that you
wanted to, what did you say?

Qawnana (01:55:44):
Oh, I know what I said.
I said when I'm old and I losemy memory.

Tina (01:55:51):
I said when I'm old and I lose my memory.
This is the one relationshipthat I don't want to forget and,
yeah, and that make you thatwas everything, that that from
you was everything, and I meantit.
And and I meant it because youknow it's the other thing I'll
tell you know because you knowI'm not old by any means.

(01:56:14):
But you know you start thinkingand like, ok, well, I'm not
going to be on this planetforever.
And you start thinking about,like, I think I think about you
often, right, there are, I seeyou on social media, that much.
But you're on my mind andyou're on my heart.
And you know you have thosethings where you're like I need
to reach out.
And then time goes by.

(01:56:34):
I need to reach out, I need toreach out, and I'm just so
grateful that you did that and Iwant to maintain that and I say
this to anybody everywhere Likeyou have to do, if somebody is
on your mind, reach out.
Yep, like you have to do, ifsomebody is on your mind, reach
out.
Oh yeah, do it.
We don't.
We don't need to go to dinner,we don't need to pretend like
we're gonna.

(01:56:54):
Let's go to lunch once a month,we don't no we don't need to do
all that.
Yeah, and you're reaching out tome in that moment meant the
world to me.
This two hours meant the worldto me every hug I get from you
at a show means the world to me.
There are very few things thatI enjoy about shows anymore.
Honestly, I mean, yeah, I'msorry, I love seeing my clients,

(01:57:16):
but the rest of the canning isit's been 20 years.

Qawnana (01:57:20):
I'm real tired of this.
We're allowed to be tired andsay we're tired.

Tina (01:57:23):
We're tired of being in shows.
We're loud, it's getting youknow those, those moments, those
moments make it worth it.
Like you know all the hassle ofbeing there and um and having
this relationship with you.
20 years later, and um, and youain't going nowhere, I'm still
gonna see you, we ain't going,although I'm not really allowed

(01:57:45):
to hug you right, because, likejudges, aren't supposed to like.
Well, you know.

Qawnana (01:57:49):
So like is yeah, but we can sneak, you know, we can
sneak a hug, you know.
You know how we do.
We kind of hurry this realquick or we can do the nod.

Tina (01:57:58):
Maybe you know, maybe do the little in the parking lot
afterwards.

Qawnana (01:58:01):
Yeah, yeah, like see you in the parking lot.
I'll see you in the parking lot, yeah, but for different
reasons.
Uh, yeah, we'll figure it out,we'll figure it out well, and I
always, and same health, andyour kids.

Tina (01:58:17):
Um, where are each of your kids right now?

Qawnana (01:58:21):
um, well, my daughter, your daughter, my, my daughter
is she?
In matter of fact, my daughterhas served eight years in the
military.
She just renewed her contract,so she is eight years in into
the army.
And, um, my son actually livesin florida, he lives in tampa.
Um, I am not a grandmother yetbut, um, I'm hoping to be a

(01:58:42):
mother-in-law eventually, andmaybe some grands on the way,
because you know, my son is,he'll be 29 this year, so I
think how do you have kids thatage?
Oh girl, I ask myself thatquestion all the time.
You know, uh, doing well, goodI'm.

Tina (01:59:01):
I'm really glad to hear that.
I hope that your daughter stayssafe with ever, with whatever
shenanigans are going on.
She's in the army, she's in thearmy.
Yeah, I remember watching herswearing in the picture.
I remember, I remember.
I remember timeline, so Ididn't know it was eight years
ago, but like I do remember andyeah.

Qawnana (01:59:27):
Eight years ago.

Tina (01:59:29):
That's crazy.

Qawnana (01:59:30):
Yeah, time, time waits for no one it doesn't.

Tina (01:59:34):
And um, you know, I'll take all the prayers I can get
from my kid and his, absolutely.
You got it First.
Deployment Yep.

Qawnana (01:59:44):
Yep.

Tina (01:59:45):
Yep, without breaking out a sec, let's just say he's in
the shit of it and he can usethe prayers, right, and yeah,
yeah, let's just yeah.

Qawnana (01:59:54):
extended his deployment and I wanted to come home yeah,
yeah, the only thing we can dois just um.
The only what's gotten methrough this past year with my
daughter and her her deploymentis I've had to remind myself
that I've, I've I showed up forher and I've given her father

(02:00:15):
and I've both given, given herthe tools to show up for herself
, and I'm not in control of anyof this.
So let me not work myself upand get sick and you know um and
stay stay faithful and andpositive and optimistic as much
as I can, but also realistic atthe same time, and um I just I

(02:00:40):
can't wait to get my hands onher like I'm holding my breath
and I know you are doing thesame.

Tina (02:00:45):
I just need him and I just get my hands on this.

Qawnana (02:00:48):
So I tell yes yes, I need to touch you.
Yes, just my hands on this so Itell, yes, yes, I need to touch
you.

Tina (02:00:51):
Yes, physically put my hands on.
Yes, oh, my my only baby boy.
Yeah, yep, yeah, just this.

Qawnana (02:01:01):
Yep, it's hard, it's rough, it's rough, it is rough,
yep, but we're tough.
They, yep, but we're tough.
They're tough, yep, they'retough because we get, because we
made them that way.
Yeah, yeah, but man, well, theyare stressing us out.
Yes, they are.

Tina (02:01:20):
All right, I love you so much.

Qawnana (02:01:23):
I think we just told you at the same time In unison
Come here, puppy Yep, I love youso much and again, I will also
keep you and eric and your sonin prayer and I can't wait for
the next hug.
I'm looking forward to the nexthug, what's?

Tina (02:01:38):
the next.
Are you going to be at umrichmond or conquer?

Qawnana (02:01:41):
uh, I will be well, it's mother's.
I think it's mother's dayweekend mother's day weekend.

Tina (02:01:47):
Richmond is eas weekend.
We got these promoters aboutthe time.
I know.

Qawnana (02:01:53):
Easter weekend?
I'm not sure about yet, butMother's Day weekend?
No, because I, my daughter,will be back by then and she and
I are going to be hugging treesand our dogs and each other.
So I was.
Yeah, I'll have a client there,that's actually my son.

Tina (02:02:11):
That weekend is my son's birthday and it's mother's day
weekend, but he was supposed tohave already been home.
Yeah, and since it was extended, it is entirely possible that
all of may gets.
You know, I, I really I have noidea.
So you know, eric and I bothare like I'm like well, just
letting even clients that arebooking yes, you know, posing

(02:02:32):
and stuff out there, I'm like,yeah, let you know now and I'll
give you possible.

Qawnana (02:02:37):
Yeah, things could be canceled at a moment's notice,
you know, yeah because that we,we know, we know when they want
us to know.
Yep, yep, yep, so that, sothat's where I'm at, yeah and
then I will see you at one ofthese shows.
You will, you will, I will.
There's a couple of on the listthat I'm sure I will be going
to, and then I'll also betraveling, like I said, to other

(02:02:58):
States and judging as well.

Tina (02:03:00):
So Well, okay, well, I love you and I will.
Oh, you know what?
I'm going to hit 20, happy 20thanniversary and happy women's
history month.
So happy women's history monthmonth at the end of it, and I'm
going to close out.

(02:03:20):
Well, the saying that Brandyand I always said was don't get
weird, use your head, it'll allbe okay.
And then we will say I like it.
Bye, bye.

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S5 Ep1: Reconnecting and Reflecting After 20 Years In the Sport - Coach Q & Coach T Tell All

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S5 Ep1: Reconnecting and Reflecting After 20 Years In the Sport - Coach Q & Coach T Tell All