November 4, 2024 • 35 mins
What if everything you thought you knew about achieving six-pack abs was wrong? On this episode of Coach's Corner, Justin and Ethan unravel the truth behind those coveted abdominal muscles and the broader implications of physical attractiveness. With our combined expertise in fitness and nutrition, we sift through the myths and lay bare the realities of the relentless dedication required to sculpt a six-pack. We tackle the cultural allure of visible abs, a symbol often linked with fitness and attractiveness, and scrutinize whether this pursuit is worth the sacrifices it demands.
As we navigate through the journey of physical attractiveness, we highlight the less-discussed trade-offs involved in maintaining a lean physique. Confidence, grooming, and body language often outweigh mere facial aesthetics, a truth we explore through a personal story of a male model whose livelihood depended on his appearance. The lifestyle changes—foregoing social events and favorite meals—required for this level of dedication prompt us to question the true cost of achieving such an image, especially for those without the lure of financial gain.
For those striving for a healthier body fat percentage, we offer actionable strategies grounded in practical experience. From precise calorie tracking to the importance of strength training, we provide insights on achieving tangible results without succumbing to unsustainable habits. Hear about effective workout routines that blend well with a balanced diet and sustainable weight management practices. As we wrap up, we invite listeners to reflect on their fitness journeys and share their experiences with us. Join us for an episode packed with candid insights, practical advice, and a touch of personal reflection.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
okay, welcome to coaches corner, episode 37,
stacking them with justin ethan.
I am coach justin, I am coachethan and in case you don't know
who we are, we've been trainersfor 20 years each.
Everything from gym floortrainers and gyms obviously, gym
floor, uh to working withpeople with nutrition.
We actually went to massageschool together, that's right 13
(00:32):
years ago.
So, yeah, at least, um, andwe've just kind of done it all.
You know fitness nutrition.
Currently I work uh, mybusiness is online building
weight loss programs for peopleacross the country.
Ethan has a studio here in LosAngeles where he works with
people, so, anyway, so thisproject that we're doing here is
just to come together to try tohelp cut through the noise and
(00:54):
give you guys the moststreamlined, no-nonsense advice
to help just get you to whereyou want.
To be a little bit quicker,maybe.
I would say so.
So today we're going to be doingan episode on how to get
six-pack abs.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
The thing we all want Super click-baity, yep.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
But it's the old ham and garlic fable.
Are you familiar with the hamand garlic fable?
I believe so, but remind me.
So a dog asks fleas.
And back in the olden daysbefore flea meds, and back in
the olden days before flea meds,it was believed that if you fed
the dog garlic it would helpget the fleas off of them.
But turns out dogs don't wantto eat garlic.
(01:32):
No, but they do like ham okay.
So if you wrapped the garlic ina piece of ham, the dog would
eat it.
In other words, you give thepeople what they want in order
to give them what they need.
Yes, and so when we clickbaityou and say how to get six-pack
abs, we're going to tell you how.
We're going to break it downfor you.
(01:52):
Yeah, of course, we've both beenthere a few times in our life.
Ethan and I have both beensingle-digit body fat levels
multiple times through our lives, so we understand what it takes
, but we're also going to tellyou the reality of that
situation as well, and maybewhat pitfalls to look out for
and make sure that yourintentions are in the right spot
.
Is it worth it?
Is it worth it?
(02:12):
Where are your abs at thesedays, ethan?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
uh, I wouldn't say I mean they're visible, but I
think they're not the sharpestthey've ever been, that's for
sure.
But I think you know they'rethere, they're there.
There's some definition.
Nice, I think I'm probably atlike 14, 14 body fat, 14, 15
that's pretty good.
Yeah, solid I mean, I think ifyou were look, I think most
(02:35):
people would look at me and belike oh, you definitely have abs
, or you know right, you know soit's a spectrum.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean there's like abs around 14, 15 percent, where
it's like for men, at least forwomen, that might be more like
20 percent, um, where you know,if you're 14, 15 percent like,
yeah, you can see, yeah, youkind of see what's going on
visible abs.
If you sit down there'sdefinitely going to be a little
handful of pooch.
I got the little something, butuh, but I think just like a
(03:03):
healthy walking around, normalweight 15 is pretty solid,
especially if you have like agood amount of muscle mass on
you.
Yeah, you know, 15 can lookpretty damn good if you, if
you're built up a little bit.
Yeah, totally so I don't know,I, I was, I guess.
I just want to start with likewhy does someone want a six-pack
?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Cause it's sexy it is .
I mean, I think that'spredominantly, is it just?
It's has such enough aestheticappeal in our culture.
Yep, whether that's true forpeople looking at a six pack or
not, it's just.
I think it is the gold standardof, particularly for men.
But I also think that, like,women with a nice tight abdomen
(03:46):
are also considered.
You know, it's an appealingfeature but.
I think you know the clichesense of a six-pack is geared
towards men and I think it isthe gold standard of someone
being in shape or considered tobe sexy.
You know, I don't think anybodyon men's, you know, forbes
sexiest man or whatever.
It doesn't have like an ab shotinvolved, totally in a way it
(04:08):
is iconic in that sense whereyou can't really like.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
There's only so much like fitness cred one can have
with like a beer belly you knowwhat I mean or even just any
sort of belly.
It's like that six-pack is.
You know what it is?
It just symbolizes that eithera, I think, from like a female
to male perspective, maybe,either a that person has like
(04:37):
good genetics and thereforemight be a better mate in some
regard, then from like a male tomale perspective, there is this
like respect, because you hadto work for that hard, and like
there's something like maybelike oh, I want to, I want to
understand what you've done,right, well, I want to.
I'll listen to you becauseyou've accomplished something
that I want or I'm interested in, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And so I think that it's just very symbolic.
Uh, in a lot of ways, yeah,because I think even if you're
not like super jacked and you'rejust somebody that has a low
body fat and your abs can beseen like if you're a guy and
you're still even kind of likemaybe skinny or lanky, but you
take the shirt off and you gotthat washboard going on.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, no one looks at your arms anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
It just doesn't, it doesn't matter, because it's
like the abs are still popping.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, it's so true, you actually don't need.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, if you're jacked up on top of that, great
sure, but like if you come inwith the washboard, you're
definitely going to be.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You're going to get more attention?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, but people are just going to be like okay, well
, at least that's what Ethan'sgoing to do, that's what I'm
going to do.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Well, excuse, well, excuse me, adjust your monocle
exactly, um, but I think thereality is and this might be
obvious for some folks listeningto this, it might be not so
obvious for folks who have neverachieved it and just kind of
like imagine what life will belike if, once, they achieve 10
body fat or whatever, but thereality is is that it's very
unlikely and and it's not, it'snot reasonable to think that
that unless you have, like youknow, one percent of the one
(06:15):
percent genetics, yeah, um, oryou're on steroids, which is
another bag of worms, butassuming you're doing it the
right way, you're natural,you're you lifting, you're
trying to do everything right,man, is it hard to maintain 10%
body fat year round?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
you know, yeah, it's very difficult and for those
listening, it's about 10% orless where you start to get that
kind of very stereotypicalmovie star defined six pack
where you're're just like oh, oh, look at that.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, like, like, like you can start seeing abs
around 15.
Yeah, these are all general.
Yeah, everybody's different.
Depends on your how like, howstocky you are, how bulbous your
muscles are.
You know there's a lot ofthings that go into it, but
generally, but, generally 15 formen, 20 for women.
You're gonna have a pretty nicelooking midsection at least.
Yeah, anything below 12, Iwould say 10 to 12%, I probably.
(07:11):
I would say pretty visible absat that point, for sure For men.
For women, that might look morelike 18%, yeah.
And then, once you get below 10, you would be what we would all
consider pretty shredded atthat point, like 8% to 10%.
You're pretty fucking shredded.
You're very lean.
And now bodybuilders though youknow they, they're walking on
stage.
Four or five percent, yeah,that's which is, which is just
(07:33):
for that one day, and then theygo and eat afterwards and it's
all gone so like don't thinkthat that's realistic but I
thinkthat, like you know, it's a
worthwhile pursuit.
I really do believe that it isbecause you learn a lot about
yourself when you're trying toaccomplish this.
You know everything has to gounder the microscope, like your
training, your sleep, yournutrition.
Like if you don't geneticallyjust walk around at 8% body fat,
(07:54):
but like you have to go througha journey, you have to lose 20
pounds of fat, even if you're15%.
I mean, do the quick math.
Like, let's say you're a 200pound guy, yep, and you're 15
body fat, yeah, okay.
(08:14):
So what does that look like?
What's five percent of 200?
That's, that's 10 pounds, right, and um, so you'd have to lose
at least 10 pounds of body fat,of just pure body, pure body fat
, right, uh?
And you know, you know that'sgoing to require you to really
like, examine your lifestyle,like are you going out too much?
Are you like unconsciouslysnacking at night and not
thinking about it, you know?
(08:35):
Anyway, so a lot goes into it.
So I do think it's a worthwhilepursuit, but I think that when
everybody reaches it and I'msuper guilty of this too like
I'll get shredded, that wheneverybody reaches it and I'm
super guilty of this too likeI'll get shredded and then like
it's just so funny how this,these old, familiar habits and
patterns just start sneakingback in next thing you know,
yeah, you're like whoa, whathappened?
like?
It doesn't feel like that muchchanged in my life, but all of a
(08:57):
sudden I'm like 15 poundsheavier and like a little bit of
that that little, the littlechub again.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I mean it definitely.
I was on a mission at thebeginning of the year and I
definitely pulled like 3% off ofme and I've kept some of it off
.
But it is funny because I waslike, oh, I'm going to go, I'm
going to definitely take me,take me down.
I want to get to like 12, maybe10, or just I really wanted to
get in there and get supershredded because it's just been
a while and I definitely had theweighed the most for me and had
(09:24):
the you know the least uhappealing body composition for
my personal journey so far.
And so I was like, oh, I'mgonna get in, yeah, to that
point, like I definitely did.
You did some good.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
And then all of a sudden kind of just noticed that
, like trains, just kind ofslowing down takes a real strong
will to keep it every day,every day so you know more of
the story here, I think, is thatlike it's a worthwhile pursuit,
but don't get it twisted,because whatever happiness you
think you're going to achieve bygetting to you know that body
fat level percentage or you know, getting visible abs, you, you,
(09:58):
it's a you still got to bringyourself with you now.
Will it boost your confidence?
Will it make you, will, willthere be a pride in like, hey, I
had to work for this,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's why I think it is a worthwhile pursuit I think
, yeah, getting into the gymwill will definitely boost your
confidence.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
But I'm gonna go ahead, you know but trust me,
like I know a lot of fitnessmodels, I know a lot of fitness
influencers who are shredded,yeah, and guess what?
They're not all that happy.
Yeah, you know they.
Because because whateverbaggage they have or they
currently have, you know,accomplishing some like external
(10:33):
goal isn't going to fix that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, the aesthetic goal doesn't do it.
Yeah, like if you're like, ifyou're shy and you have trouble
talking to potential mates orpeople that you are looking to,
you know, link up with in somecapacity and you think that
getting a six pack is going tobe some shoe in, where all of a
sudden you have people knockingat the down the door or you go
(10:55):
to a party or pool party and youhave some unfounded confidence
to talk to somebody that youfind appealing.
Like it's not going to be thecase.
Like you, there's a very goodchance that you will be that
same shy person as an example.
Right, yeah, and it's so, it's,it's.
It definitely gives you thejourney will, will shape you
without question, and I do thinkgoing to the gym in particular
(11:18):
is going to be something thatwill create confidence in an
individual and definitely canmake them feel more powerful.
But yeah, to Justin's point oflike the, the, the shadows that
we carry don't just disappearfrom our shiny six pack apps?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
No, they certainly don't, and I think, depending on
the person, it can either likebring out like even more
insecurities, because now you'reso fixated on your body and all
you're thinking about it.
Yeah, it could even it couldmake you, I mean, like that.
You know, that's.
The thing is like almost everybodybuilder could look in the
(11:54):
mirror and be like I look likeshit today, but for the rest of
us, we're like holy fuck, dude.
You're like whoa you look youlook insane, you're massive,
you're shredded they're lookingat it from such a different van,
like Like they're looking atevery and they're and you know
it's so relative to them andthat happens, I think, on every
scale for everybody.
Yeah, they, they're not.
They're missing the forest tothe trees, so to speak.
(12:15):
They're so focused on one treethey're missing the entire
forest, you know.
And bit lower it's like yeah,but, dude, no one's thinking
about that one.
Like they're looking at you andjust like the whole thing, like
holy shit, yeah, yeah, butanyway so.
But on the other hand, you knowit could also, once you start
(12:36):
getting positive attention andfeedback, depending on the
person, it could be a reallygreat thing for them, you know,
in their life to like finallyget any sort of external
validation.
I think people I don't know, I'mstarting to believe that.
You know, physicalattractiveness is so much like
(12:57):
it's less to do with someone'sface, I think, and more to do
with just like everything theypresent, like their whole
package.
In a lot of ways, I think,especially for men, like you'd
be surprised, but just likegrowing a little stubble and
getting in shape and getting agood haircut for men maybe could
like, even if you're like, noteven like a handsome guy.
(13:17):
You could be like a pretty uglyguy, but you just get in shape
and like get a good haircut.
You could like, all of a suddenyou're probably gonna like get
a girlfriend in no time at all,you know.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And there's so much.
I mean, I think, withoutquestion, you can look at
somebody just walking by and belike, oh, they're attractive or
not.
But you know so much of it isthe body language, how you
present yourself.
Are you funny?
I mean, I think attractivenessis really a mixed bag.
And again you can look atsomebody in a magazine or a
picture and be like, oh, yay ornay.
(13:48):
And if they have six-pack abs,maybe.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Swipe left.
Exactly, it's a magazine, it'snot a dating app.
Ah, swipe.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But I also think yeah , I think in the sense of
fulfillment and happiness right.
So if there's this venture togo out to acquire this goal of
six-pack abs and therefore havea better life, so to speak, you
know it comes with the price.
There's gonna be a lot ofsacrifice, there's gonna be an
actual expression of yourday-to-day which might not make
you all that happy.
You know that, in a sense, justmy life just might have a
(14:26):
heaviness to it or a burden ofresponsibility that when you
arrive, you might be like ohyeah, I'm shredded, but like man
, that sucked, like I didn'tlike that, yeah, or I couldn't
go out, I couldn't do this, yeah, or I couldn't go out, I
couldn't do this?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, exactly Right.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Like you know it's like if you have to watch your,
because fundamentally you knowgetting that lean requires a
certain diligence and a certainalmost militant kind of approach
to your life, and so that mightmean that certain activities
are off limits or, you know, oldhabits might be gone or coping
mechanisms might be gone.
And fundamentally, if a copingmechanism is gone and you kind
(15:00):
of have to look in the mirror,that might be a good thing in a
bigger picture, but at the sametime it also might be hard to
not have your coping mechanismin place and all of a sudden
your life's just being stirredup and yeah, it's just a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It's a lot.
I mean.
I remember when I was in my 20sI was hanging out with this guy
.
And when I was in my 20s I washanging with this guy and he was
like a real model.
He wasn't just like the fake la, uh, you know, pose for some
rando photographer that no one'sever heard of, but like he was
actually like legit, like doinglike big publications, um, being
(15:32):
flown to new york and paris.
He was like a legit male model,um, and yeah, I mean like his
career was basically dependenton his abs.
That was, that was it.
And so he did a really good jobof not withdrawing socially,
because I think a lot of peoplewould just not even go anywhere,
not even try to hang out,because the temptation is just
(15:54):
too strong.
So, in his defense, he did agood job, yeah, but I remember
hanging out with him going to abar and he would like drink one
light beer and then it was justwater.
You know, everyone else waslike eating burgers and fries
and putting like four or fivebeers down.
We were like in our 20s, yeah,of course, and he would have
like one light beer and maybelike some chicken tenders and
(16:14):
then he'd be done and justdrinking water and like just,
and it's for the discipline andand the willpower, and then, to
your point, the sacrifice.
Yeah, but, um, I guess he's alittle bit of a different
example, because that wasactually his career and I think
we would all be so lucky to likebe flown around because of how
hot.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
We were all the time exactly freeze hotel stays and
take a picture and post it onInstagram or something.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Totally.
But I mean, you know, I thinkjust to extrapolate of the
sacrifice, and so for a normalperson to be even harder because
there's not the financialreward for it, it's just, this
is just a decision that he orshe has made to have this figure
and it's like, yeah, you haveto really ask yourself, is the
trade-off worth it?
(17:01):
Because you know, if you enjoygoing to happy hour, if you
enjoy a couple dinners out everyweek, if you enjoy takeovers
like you got, like you'reprobably gonna have to get rid
of that.
If, if, if you want that bodyfat level percentage yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I mean it's like yeah , are you ready to count
calories?
Not everybody wants to do it.
I mean I think it's a goodpractice but like are you?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
really ready and willing to get nitty and gritty
every day all the time you know,and it takes a lot longer than
you think too.
Like one more caveat I will sayis because I've gone through
this journey and, like my oldmentor told me, everyone is
fatter than they think they are.
This is before I even startedcarbon and doing my coaching,
(17:43):
he's like you think you need tolose 10 pounds.
it might be more like 30 becauseit's like, yeah, you know, I
just want to lose quick 10, likelean out.
It's like I bet you could lose10 and you wouldn't even notice
a difference.
Yeah, because the first 10three quarters is probably just
water weight.
Anyways, right, you know?
Um, I was 215 so actually justrecently.
(18:06):
So I just did a six month bulk,got way too fat, hated it like,
did the bit of bulk for way toolong and I went from like 190
to 195 to 212.
Um, now, unless you're onsteroids for most people, if you
put on 25 pounds, I bet you 15of its fat.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yes, it's, or more yeah, it's gonna be more.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, there'll be some some lean mass in there,
for sure but um and so then andthen now I'm like five months
into a cut and I pulled offalmost 20 pounds.
So I'm like 195, but it's beenway longer than I thought and I
was thinking at two, 15,.
When I was two, 15, I was like,okay, let me just get down to
(18:51):
200.
I'll be shredded Right 15pounds.
So 195 now, five pounds morethan I thought, yeah.
And I'm still like just finallystarting to see the first
little like flicker of abs thatyou want, right that you're like
ooh, 18 to 20 pounds later.
So wild dude.
I'm just finally, and I'm justlike fuck man, so that whole
(19:11):
bulk, after you've built and cut, maybe I'll net out two or
three pounds of muscle after allthat Yep.
You know, and so it takes a lotlonger than you think.
You probably have more body faton you than you think.
That's true, and as you getlighter and as you start burning
calories, your body doesabsolutely require less food to
(19:39):
function than it did when youwere heavier, and so you have to
keep adjusting caloriesdownward to compensate for this
drop in metabolic rate.
I was watching a video with drum mike israel and he was
interviewing another phd guy.
He was saying that if you lose20 pounds, that could actually
lower your metabolism by 25%.
(20:01):
What, wow?
They're seeing a 25% reductionin metabolic rate after a
20-pound loss.
That's crazy.
Or I think he said 10%, excuseme, 10% body mass reduction.
So if you're 200 pounds, thatwould be 20 pounds.
So, 10% of your total body sizereduction lowers lowest
(20:23):
metabolism by 25% give or take.
Everybody's a little bitdifferent, but on average that's
what they're seeing.
That's intense, right, so youknow it's like.
So you're hungry and then, asyou get smaller, you have to
actually eat less food.
You know so it takes a realstrong willpower to see all the
way to.
(20:43):
Like you know, maybe for women15%, for men 10%, Like it takes
a real drive to get there.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
That's a wild statistic.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, and then when you get there you know you got
to maintain it, or else what thefuck was the point of the whole
thing?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well then that's oh man, like you were saying, it
goes so quick, it's so easy torejoice or just be like all
right, well, summer's over, orwhatever.
Whatever the reason you choseto do it, once you arrive it's
like the diligence does not goaway and it's bulking season
again, yeah, and then you justlose it all.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
But you got to be careful man.
Like the cloak dagger ofbulking man, it can be real.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It's excuse to eat ice.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Excuse me, that's what got me, because I'm like,
all right, I'm like so lean andthin, now, yeah, I want to bulk
up, and then that it's like it's.
It seduces you, that you think,yeah, I'm just gonna bulk.
That makes perfect sense.
That's what people do.
Six months later, you've gainedall the weight back that you
lost.
You're fatter than you werewhen you started.
And all this while you thoughtyou were doing something
positive for yourself by bulking, when really you just blew it
(21:45):
and now you're starting fromsquare one again.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You got to go through another six month fat loss
cycle.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You're like fuck, oh man, yeah, um, but anyway, so
all right, well, I would.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I was gonna, I was gonna ask you, so that all being
said, though, like, how do youdo it?
As someone who has walked thepath.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So if we want to get like nuts and bolts on it, um,
it's gonna be very difficult togo all the way now.
You could probably get to 15body fat by just making better
food choices and increasing youractivity and and cutting out
sugary drinks and snacking, byjust kind of just generally.
You know, if you're a healthyguy, you could probably get to
15 by just generally, justgenerally.
(22:24):
You know, if you're a healthyguy, you could probably get to
15 by just generally making goodfood choices if you're a
healthy woman.
You could probably get to 20 byjust doing up, doing better.
Hit your 10 000 steps, work outa few days a week.
Yeah, eat single ingredientfoods for the most part, limit
the takeout, limit the sugarydrinks and you'll get in pretty
decent shape.
I would say I get some goodsleep.
But that next bit, you know, um, it's like they say, like when
(22:50):
you're when, when the job is 90done, congratulations, you're
halfway there.
Yeah, because that next 10 ofthe work is going to be harder
than the first 90 was.
And so getting to 15, I think,is great.
Uh, you'll be healthy, you'lllook great in a, in a t-shirt,
all that fun stuff.
But to get to 10, which I thinkis give or take a couple
(23:13):
percentage points where you wantto land to see like, wow, that
dude is fit or that girl is veryfit, you then you got to get.
Then you really have to take itto the next level and you got
to start measuring your food.
Yeah, it's very difficult toensure that you are in a proper
calorie deficit, especially asyou get smaller.
Remember, if you lose 10.
So I just lost 10 of my bodyfat or my body mass, yeah, so
(23:36):
that means theoretically.
My metabolism now is 25 lessthan what it was potentially a
few months ago.
So what does that mean?
That means that instead of 2700calories, I had to cut it down
to 23, which sucks.
That's oh yeah sucks because myappetite is still up there oh
yeah, you know.
Uh, it's not my appetite, andhunger hormones haven't adjusted
(23:58):
to my metabolism.
They're still up at 215.
So that step one is you reallygot to measure that food out so
you can just guarantee yourselfthat sweet spot of about a 500
calorie deficit per day.
That is pretty universallywhat's recommended.
You'll lose weight faster youcan.
(24:25):
You'll lose weight faster ifyou go, if, if you go into like
a thousand calorie deficit right, but it's almost so, it's, it's
, it's.
It's so much harder by order ofmagnitude that the the the
likelihood you're gonna stickwith it just diminishes down to
nothing.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, it's.
This is the sustainability isjust gonna go out the window
window.
Once you start getting into adeficit 30%, 40% it's just
you're going to crash and burn.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, you'll see the scale move every day, but then
you're going to the stress,fatigue, everything is just
going to hit you.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, you're going to be cranky and just cortisol all
the time.
Can't think straight, you'renot going to be sleeping well,
so all these negative thingsstart compounding on themselves
Performance in the gym.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Oh yeah, totally You're going to start losing a
lot of muscle mass.
That was another big thing toois, like you know, anything
below 500 calorie deficit perday.
Yeah, you start burning throughmuscle tissue cause you can't
train hard.
Your body's like we, so youknow.
(25:28):
It's very simple math.
You just can Google how manycalories has my body burned.
Google that and a calculatorwill pop up and you just enter
your age, height, weight,activity level.
It'll give you a decent littleestimation, which I think is a
good starting point at least.
Yeah, it's generally accurate.
And then you just pull 500 fromthat, you know.
So if your metabolic ratethroughout the day is 2,500,
(25:52):
which is very average, then eat2,000.
And you're probably going to bejust fine.
But you really got to make sureit is 2,000.
Because other studies haveshown, on average, people are 50
to 100% wrong in their calorietracking.
100% off, yeah, you thinkyou're eating 1,200?
Yeah, and we all know the womenout there like I only eat 1200
(26:13):
calories a day and they're like180 pounds.
You're like I think you mightbe missing a couple days here,
right?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
yeah, sorry, I don't mean to be sound mean, but no,
but this is the fact of thematter, but, yeah, it's too long
, it's.
The truth, though, it's thatwithout us, without a food scale
, without counting every calorieand food logging, you just
don't have the accuracy on yournumbers, and I think to reach
that specificity of the goalwe're talking about, you have to
get that specific and you haveto be consistent with it day in
(26:42):
and day out you can't just kindof like shoot from the hip and
like, oh, I'll eat a salad orI'll just like eat a little bit
less.
It might put you in a deficit.
But I think, like you weresaying to, that last leg of the
journey is going to require thatthe true accuracy, which is
only going to come from havingyour macros set, measuring out
your food and I think this iswhere, like being smart, you
(27:06):
know, it's like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So you and I are both turning 40 this year and we've
been in this, we've been doingthis for forever, you know.
But I remember like in thisyear and we've been in this,
we've been doing this forforever, you know.
But I remember like in our 20swe were both probably like we
were remember that littlehandheld thing it would say we
were like six percent eightpercent I'm sure it was off by a
few, but we were very lean,yeah, and we never tracked.
In fact, we tried to eat as muchas we could.
(27:28):
It's just so funny to just likeman, if I knew then what I know
now, because now, at 40, it isharder you know 40 year olds
body doesn't want to release fat, like a 25 year old does no,
and so it's a little bit harder.
But like um, this is where youjust got to be a little bit more
sophisticated on your foodchoice, because hunger
(27:50):
management is the name of thegame.
Yeah, like if you're starvingall the time because you're
making really poor food choicesthat just fly through you.
Like you're drinking yourcalories, you're, you're eating,
you're burning through all yourcalories and fats and not
leaving any room for, like,starches and lean proteins
you're gonna be fiber?
yeah, you're gonna be starvingand it's gonna make it very
(28:11):
difficult.
So like having three squares aday that are like between four
and six hundred calories, thatare just like 10 grams of fiber
in each one of those platesveggies, fruits, lean protein
just stacked.
So it's like it's like hard toget the whole plate down.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, you're like eating the volume.
It's like, oh man, I'm stillchewing on this whole food.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, like that's what you want.
You want meals that actuallyfeel difficult to get through,
but you've already done the mathand so you know that meal is
only 400 or 500 calories.
It just looks like a lot offood, right, and that's the
secret.
And then you can just kind ofbackfill your calories in with
(28:59):
like bars or shakes.
But three meals like that thatare forced 600 calories are just
a mound of veggies and leanprotein.
That's how you're going to feelsatisfied, as you, you know,
descend body fat down to bodyfat hell right down down into
the bowels.
Yeah and so so you know, you gotto understand your calories.
Don't cut more than 500 a dayoff of your total daily energy
(29:19):
expenditure.
Don't do intense cardio.
That would be anotherrecommendation that I would give
, like avoid the boot camps,avoid the sprints.
Save that for when you'reeating at maintenance or when
you're eating a little bit of asurplus, then your body can
handle it.
It's too stressful, it's toostressful and it triggers too
much appetite.
Yeah, you know, you go do aboot camp class, you're fucking
(29:40):
starving afterwards and it'sgonna be very difficult to only
eat 2 000 calories if you'vejust kicked your own ass.
And, by the way it the appetitesurge from a boot camp versus
how many calories that classactually burned is not worth it.
It's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Not for the calorie exchange and if you notice,
aesthetically you probably wouldget more benefit from just
doing some concerted weighttraining to look a certain way,
to fill yourself out more.
I mean, boot camp will make youfit, it's good stuff, but in
terms of if it's good stuff, butin terms of if it's an
aesthetic goal, you probablyjust get more benefit from it's
not.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You're not giving your body any real reason to
keep muscle on you, yeah, and soyou know it's like spend your
time doing, you know, 10 to 20sets per muscle group per week.
Two or three reps close tofailure, hit 10 000 steps a day.
It burns the same amount ofcalories as a boot camp does,
(30:38):
but triggers no appetite or verylittle, and it's actually very
recovering.
Um, and then you just focus onyour food.
Let's focus on the food focusthe food and like honestly, and
it keeps sodium levels kind ofat bay.
Because that can be a real mindfuck if you're eating the right
amount of food but there's justloaded with sodium or whatever
and you're just not losing anyweight.
Your body's just holding on towater, that's.
(31:00):
That can be difficult, butthat's really the secret.
It's like it's like good foodchoice, 500 calorie deficit.
I'll add one more thing to thatjust like get as close as you
can to about a pound, a gram ofprotein per pound.
So if you're 180 pounds, 180grams protein, easy math, um,
and that'll help keep you fullsatisfied.
Abundance of amino acids, soyour body can maintain muscle
(31:22):
tissue as you burn body fat.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, Cause I think what I think sometimes people
don't even realize is thateverybody has a six pack Like.
The shape of the muscle isinherently that shape.
You just have to be lean enoughin order to see it.
But I do want to also say, onthe back end of that, is that
actually doing some hypertrophyfor your abs, or asking your abs
to grow through concertedabdominal exercises, will also
(31:45):
kind of come in from the backend, because obviously the more
bulbous the muscle is, the moreit'll push up against whatever
degree of fat, stretching thefat out.
So, fundamentally, you have toreduce the body fat, but you
take the body fat you have rightnow and if you made your bicep
twice as big, it would stretchagainst that body fat and thin
it out as well.
As, even though we all havethat six-pack shape, they can
(32:07):
grow, they can become morebulbous in 3D, so to speak.
And so I do think that if thisis a goal that you're looking to
do, it's not just about beinglean, but actually having some
type of hypertrophy training foryour abs is going to be of
benefit.
It's a smaller slice of the pie, no doubt, but all things said
and done, the abs will look thatmuch better once you get lean,
(32:30):
and I also just think that itcan't be.
If we're talking aboutmasterful six pack abs, you got
to get some concerted abs,masterful abs, masterful abs.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, yeah, no for sure, and and, uh, you know
that's interesting, so I think alot of people would make the
mistake.
So once you've kind of hit thequote of about 10, 15 sets per
week, yeah it's not a matter oftraining harder anymore, it's
(33:00):
all the other things we justtalked about.
Yeah, but with that being said,to your point, I think that if
you just tack on a few sets tofailure exactly at the end of
every workout of first, likejust pick a pick a different ab
exercise every time you work outand just do three sets to
failure of it, so like if youlift, even if you're only
lifting three times a week,that's still nine sets to
(33:22):
failure.
And remember, even when you'redoing squats and lunges and
bench press and pull-ups, yourabs are working oh 100.
So they're always on on like anisometric level.
But then, just to bring it alittle extra hypertrophy, man,
just three sets of bosu ballstretch crunch, I was gonna say,
if you didn't even knowsomething with progressive.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Or, like you do a stretch crunch on a bosu ball
and then use a little two and ahalf pound plane on your chest
and a five pound plane on yourchest and keep it simple, but
follow the the tried and truemethods of of a progressive
overload and a plan.
I think you be surprisedBecause also a lot of people
like skip abs.
Like I just noticed, peopleskip abs.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
A lot of well-respected people skip abs.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
They're just like eh you know, I mean and it's true
Like they get it worked all thetime.
But I do think that if we'relooking really for that pop,
when you take the shirt off, youhave to have some concerted ab
training.
It doesn't have to be crazy,but you just have to have
something in there For sure yeah, that's all I do is I'll just
at the end of each workout, justpick a different one.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You know, bench sit-ups, stretch BOSU, ball
crunches, reverse crunches offthe bench is one of my faves, so
good Sometimes.
Just some good old-fashionedV-ups, you know, are good, but
yeah, just mix and match.
You don't have to get assophisticated with your
programming as you would withother body parts, but just get
something in there a few days aweek, a few sets to failure, and
(34:36):
you'd be surprised.
Yeah it goes a long way, yeah,all right.
Well, there you go, team.
So go get those six packs.
Do it.
Send us pictures before andafter so we can take credit for
it and you know, let me know inthe comments how it goes for you
, if you've achieved it and howyou feel after accomplishing it.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Was it worth it?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, was it worth it ?
That'd be fun to know.
Yeah, all right team.
So that was episode 37 ofCoach's Corner.
We're getting there, we'redoing it.
We're more professional by theweek.
Damn it, that's right, allright.
okay, welcome to coaches corner, episode 37,
stacking them with justin ethan.
I am coach justin, I am coachethan and in case you don't know
who we are, we've been trainersfor 20 years each.
Everything from gym floortrainers and gyms obviously, gym
floor, uh to working withpeople with nutrition.
We actually went to massageschool together, that's right 13
(00:32):
years ago.
So, yeah, at least, um, andwe've just kind of done it all.
You know fitness nutrition.
Currently I work uh, mybusiness is online building
weight loss programs for peopleacross the country.
Ethan has a studio here in LosAngeles where he works with
people, so, anyway, so thisproject that we're doing here is
just to come together to try tohelp cut through the noise and
(00:54):
give you guys the moststreamlined, no-nonsense advice
to help just get you to whereyou want.
To be a little bit quicker,maybe.
I would say so.
So today we're going to be doingan episode on how to get
six-pack abs.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
The thing we all want Super click-baity, yep.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
But it's the old ham and garlic fable.
Are you familiar with the hamand garlic fable?
I believe so, but remind me.
So a dog asks fleas.
And back in the olden daysbefore flea meds, and back in
the olden days before flea meds,it was believed that if you fed
the dog garlic it would helpget the fleas off of them.
But turns out dogs don't wantto eat garlic.
(01:32):
No, but they do like ham okay.
So if you wrapped the garlic ina piece of ham, the dog would
eat it.
In other words, you give thepeople what they want in order
to give them what they need.
Yes, and so when we clickbaityou and say how to get six-pack
abs, we're going to tell you how.
We're going to break it downfor you.
(01:52):
Yeah, of course, we've both beenthere a few times in our life.
Ethan and I have both beensingle-digit body fat levels
multiple times through our lives, so we understand what it takes
, but we're also going to tellyou the reality of that
situation as well, and maybewhat pitfalls to look out for
and make sure that yourintentions are in the right spot
.
Is it worth it?
Is it worth it?
(02:12):
Where are your abs at thesedays, ethan?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
uh, I wouldn't say I mean they're visible, but I
think they're not the sharpestthey've ever been, that's for
sure.
But I think you know they'rethere, they're there.
There's some definition.
Nice, I think I'm probably atlike 14, 14 body fat, 14, 15
that's pretty good.
Yeah, solid I mean, I think ifyou were look, I think most
(02:35):
people would look at me and belike oh, you definitely have abs
, or you know right, you know soit's a spectrum.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean there's like abs around 14, 15 percent, where
it's like for men, at least forwomen, that might be more like
20 percent, um, where you know,if you're 14, 15 percent like,
yeah, you can see, yeah, youkind of see what's going on
visible abs.
If you sit down there'sdefinitely going to be a little
handful of pooch.
I got the little something, butuh, but I think just like a
(03:03):
healthy walking around, normalweight 15 is pretty solid,
especially if you have like agood amount of muscle mass on
you.
Yeah, you know, 15 can lookpretty damn good if you, if
you're built up a little bit.
Yeah, totally so I don't know,I, I was, I guess.
I just want to start with likewhy does someone want a six-pack
?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Cause it's sexy it is .
I mean, I think that'spredominantly, is it just?
It's has such enough aestheticappeal in our culture.
Yep, whether that's true forpeople looking at a six pack or
not, it's just.
I think it is the gold standardof, particularly for men.
But I also think that, like,women with a nice tight abdomen
(03:46):
are also considered.
You know, it's an appealingfeature but.
I think you know the clichesense of a six-pack is geared
towards men and I think it isthe gold standard of someone
being in shape or considered tobe sexy.
You know, I don't think anybodyon men's, you know, forbes
sexiest man or whatever.
It doesn't have like an ab shotinvolved, totally in a way it
(04:08):
is iconic in that sense whereyou can't really like.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
There's only so much like fitness cred one can have
with like a beer belly you knowwhat I mean or even just any
sort of belly.
It's like that six-pack is.
You know what it is?
It just symbolizes that eithera, I think, from like a female
to male perspective, maybe,either a that person has like
(04:37):
good genetics and thereforemight be a better mate in some
regard, then from like a male tomale perspective, there is this
like respect, because you hadto work for that hard, and like
there's something like maybelike oh, I want to, I want to
understand what you've done,right, well, I want to.
I'll listen to you becauseyou've accomplished something
that I want or I'm interested in, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And so I think that it's just very symbolic.
Uh, in a lot of ways, yeah,because I think even if you're
not like super jacked and you'rejust somebody that has a low
body fat and your abs can beseen like if you're a guy and
you're still even kind of likemaybe skinny or lanky, but you
take the shirt off and you gotthat washboard going on.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, no one looks at your arms anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
It just doesn't, it doesn't matter, because it's
like the abs are still popping.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, it's so true, you actually don't need.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, if you're jacked up on top of that, great
sure, but like if you come inwith the washboard, you're
definitely going to be.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You're going to get more attention?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, but people are just going to be like okay, well
, at least that's what Ethan'sgoing to do, that's what I'm
going to do.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Well, excuse, well, excuse me, adjust your monocle
exactly, um, but I think thereality is and this might be
obvious for some folks listeningto this, it might be not so
obvious for folks who have neverachieved it and just kind of
like imagine what life will belike if, once, they achieve 10
body fat or whatever, but thereality is is that it's very
unlikely and and it's not, it'snot reasonable to think that
that unless you have, like youknow, one percent of the one
(06:15):
percent genetics, yeah, um, oryou're on steroids, which is
another bag of worms, butassuming you're doing it the
right way, you're natural,you're you lifting, you're
trying to do everything right,man, is it hard to maintain 10%
body fat year round?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
you know, yeah, it's very difficult and for those
listening, it's about 10% orless where you start to get that
kind of very stereotypicalmovie star defined six pack
where you're're just like oh, oh, look at that.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, like, like, like you can start seeing abs
around 15.
Yeah, these are all general.
Yeah, everybody's different.
Depends on your how like, howstocky you are, how bulbous your
muscles are.
You know there's a lot ofthings that go into it, but
generally, but, generally 15 formen, 20 for women.
You're gonna have a pretty nicelooking midsection at least.
Yeah, anything below 12, Iwould say 10 to 12%, I probably.
(07:11):
I would say pretty visible absat that point, for sure For men.
For women, that might look morelike 18%, yeah.
And then, once you get below 10, you would be what we would all
consider pretty shredded atthat point, like 8% to 10%.
You're pretty fucking shredded.
You're very lean.
And now bodybuilders though youknow they, they're walking on
stage.
Four or five percent, yeah,that's which is, which is just
(07:33):
for that one day, and then theygo and eat afterwards and it's
all gone so like don't thinkthat that's realistic but I
thinkthat, like you know, it's a
worthwhile pursuit.
I really do believe that it isbecause you learn a lot about
yourself when you're trying toaccomplish this.
You know everything has to gounder the microscope, like your
training, your sleep, yournutrition.
Like if you don't geneticallyjust walk around at 8% body fat,
(07:54):
but like you have to go througha journey, you have to lose 20
pounds of fat, even if you're15%.
I mean, do the quick math.
Like, let's say you're a 200pound guy, yep, and you're 15
body fat, yeah, okay.
(08:14):
So what does that look like?
What's five percent of 200?
That's, that's 10 pounds, right, and um, so you'd have to lose
at least 10 pounds of body fat,of just pure body, pure body fat
, right, uh?
And you know, you know that'sgoing to require you to really
like, examine your lifestyle,like are you going out too much?
Are you like unconsciouslysnacking at night and not
thinking about it, you know?
(08:35):
Anyway, so a lot goes into it.
So I do think it's a worthwhilepursuit, but I think that when
everybody reaches it and I'msuper guilty of this too like
I'll get shredded, that wheneverybody reaches it and I'm
super guilty of this too likeI'll get shredded and then like
it's just so funny how this,these old, familiar habits and
patterns just start sneakingback in next thing you know,
yeah, you're like whoa, whathappened?
like?
It doesn't feel like that muchchanged in my life, but all of a
(08:57):
sudden I'm like 15 poundsheavier and like a little bit of
that that little, the littlechub again.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I mean it definitely.
I was on a mission at thebeginning of the year and I
definitely pulled like 3% off ofme and I've kept some of it off
.
But it is funny because I waslike, oh, I'm going to go, I'm
going to definitely take me,take me down.
I want to get to like 12, maybe10, or just I really wanted to
get in there and get supershredded because it's just been
a while and I definitely had theweighed the most for me and had
(09:24):
the you know the least uhappealing body composition for
my personal journey so far.
And so I was like, oh, I'mgonna get in, yeah, to that
point, like I definitely did.
You did some good.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
And then all of a sudden kind of just noticed that
, like trains, just kind ofslowing down takes a real strong
will to keep it every day,every day so you know more of
the story here, I think, is thatlike it's a worthwhile pursuit,
but don't get it twisted,because whatever happiness you
think you're going to achieve bygetting to you know that body
fat level percentage or you know, getting visible abs, you, you,
(09:58):
it's a you still got to bringyourself with you now.
Will it boost your confidence?
Will it make you, will, willthere be a pride in like, hey, I
had to work for this,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's why I think it is a worthwhile pursuit I think
, yeah, getting into the gymwill will definitely boost your
confidence.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
But I'm gonna go ahead, you know but trust me,
like I know a lot of fitnessmodels, I know a lot of fitness
influencers who are shredded,yeah, and guess what?
They're not all that happy.
Yeah, you know they.
Because because whateverbaggage they have or they
currently have, you know,accomplishing some like external
(10:33):
goal isn't going to fix that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, the aesthetic goal doesn't do it.
Yeah, like if you're like, ifyou're shy and you have trouble
talking to potential mates orpeople that you are looking to,
you know, link up with in somecapacity and you think that
getting a six pack is going tobe some shoe in, where all of a
sudden you have people knockingat the down the door or you go
(10:55):
to a party or pool party and youhave some unfounded confidence
to talk to somebody that youfind appealing.
Like it's not going to be thecase.
Like you, there's a very goodchance that you will be that
same shy person as an example.
Right, yeah, and it's so, it's,it's.
It definitely gives you thejourney will, will shape you
without question, and I do thinkgoing to the gym in particular
(11:18):
is going to be something thatwill create confidence in an
individual and definitely canmake them feel more powerful.
But yeah, to Justin's point oflike the, the, the shadows that
we carry don't just disappearfrom our shiny six pack apps?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
No, they certainly don't, and I think, depending on
the person, it can either likebring out like even more
insecurities, because now you'reso fixated on your body and all
you're thinking about it.
Yeah, it could even it couldmake you, I mean, like that.
You know, that's.
The thing is like almost everybodybuilder could look in the
(11:54):
mirror and be like I look likeshit today, but for the rest of
us, we're like holy fuck, dude.
You're like whoa you look youlook insane, you're massive,
you're shredded they're lookingat it from such a different van,
like Like they're looking atevery and they're and you know
it's so relative to them andthat happens, I think, on every
scale for everybody.
Yeah, they, they're not.
They're missing the forest tothe trees, so to speak.
(12:15):
They're so focused on one treethey're missing the entire
forest, you know.
And bit lower it's like yeah,but, dude, no one's thinking
about that one.
Like they're looking at you andjust like the whole thing, like
holy shit, yeah, yeah, butanyway so.
But on the other hand, you knowit could also, once you start
(12:36):
getting positive attention andfeedback, depending on the
person, it could be a reallygreat thing for them, you know,
in their life to like finallyget any sort of external
validation.
I think people I don't know, I'mstarting to believe that.
You know, physicalattractiveness is so much like
(12:57):
it's less to do with someone'sface, I think, and more to do
with just like everything theypresent, like their whole
package.
In a lot of ways, I think,especially for men, like you'd
be surprised, but just likegrowing a little stubble and
getting in shape and getting agood haircut for men maybe could
like, even if you're like, noteven like a handsome guy.
(13:17):
You could be like a pretty uglyguy, but you just get in shape
and like get a good haircut.
You could like, all of a suddenyou're probably gonna like get
a girlfriend in no time at all,you know.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And there's so much.
I mean, I think, withoutquestion, you can look at
somebody just walking by and belike, oh, they're attractive or
not.
But you know so much of it isthe body language, how you
present yourself.
Are you funny?
I mean, I think attractivenessis really a mixed bag.
And again you can look atsomebody in a magazine or a
picture and be like, oh, yay ornay.
(13:48):
And if they have six-pack abs,maybe.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Swipe left.
Exactly, it's a magazine, it'snot a dating app.
Ah, swipe.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But I also think yeah , I think in the sense of
fulfillment and happiness right.
So if there's this venture togo out to acquire this goal of
six-pack abs and therefore havea better life, so to speak, you
know it comes with the price.
There's gonna be a lot ofsacrifice, there's gonna be an
actual expression of yourday-to-day which might not make
you all that happy.
You know that, in a sense, justmy life just might have a
(14:26):
heaviness to it or a burden ofresponsibility that when you
arrive, you might be like ohyeah, I'm shredded, but like man
, that sucked, like I didn'tlike that, yeah, or I couldn't
go out, I couldn't do this, yeah, or I couldn't go out, I
couldn't do this?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, exactly Right.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Like you know it's like if you have to watch your,
because fundamentally you knowgetting that lean requires a
certain diligence and a certainalmost militant kind of approach
to your life, and so that mightmean that certain activities
are off limits or, you know, oldhabits might be gone or coping
mechanisms might be gone.
And fundamentally, if a copingmechanism is gone and you kind
(15:00):
of have to look in the mirror,that might be a good thing in a
bigger picture, but at the sametime it also might be hard to
not have your coping mechanismin place and all of a sudden
your life's just being stirredup and yeah, it's just a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It's a lot.
I mean.
I remember when I was in my 20sI was hanging out with this guy
.
And when I was in my 20s I washanging with this guy and he was
like a real model.
He wasn't just like the fake la, uh, you know, pose for some
rando photographer that no one'sever heard of, but like he was
actually like legit, like doinglike big publications, um, being
(15:32):
flown to new york and paris.
He was like a legit male model,um, and yeah, I mean like his
career was basically dependenton his abs.
That was, that was it.
And so he did a really good jobof not withdrawing socially,
because I think a lot of peoplewould just not even go anywhere,
not even try to hang out,because the temptation is just
(15:54):
too strong.
So, in his defense, he did agood job, yeah, but I remember
hanging out with him going to abar and he would like drink one
light beer and then it was justwater.
You know, everyone else waslike eating burgers and fries
and putting like four or fivebeers down.
We were like in our 20s, yeah,of course, and he would have
like one light beer and maybelike some chicken tenders and
(16:14):
then he'd be done and justdrinking water and like just,
and it's for the discipline andand the willpower, and then, to
your point, the sacrifice.
Yeah, but, um, I guess he's alittle bit of a different
example, because that wasactually his career and I think
we would all be so lucky to likebe flown around because of how
hot.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
We were all the time exactly freeze hotel stays and
take a picture and post it onInstagram or something.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Totally.
But I mean, you know, I thinkjust to extrapolate of the
sacrifice, and so for a normalperson to be even harder because
there's not the financialreward for it, it's just, this
is just a decision that he orshe has made to have this figure
and it's like, yeah, you haveto really ask yourself, is the
trade-off worth it?
(17:01):
Because you know, if you enjoygoing to happy hour, if you
enjoy a couple dinners out everyweek, if you enjoy takeovers
like you got, like you'reprobably gonna have to get rid
of that.
If, if, if you want that bodyfat level percentage yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I mean it's like yeah , are you ready to count
calories?
Not everybody wants to do it.
I mean I think it's a goodpractice but like are you?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
really ready and willing to get nitty and gritty
every day all the time you know,and it takes a lot longer than
you think too.
Like one more caveat I will sayis because I've gone through
this journey and, like my oldmentor told me, everyone is
fatter than they think they are.
This is before I even startedcarbon and doing my coaching,
(17:43):
he's like you think you need tolose 10 pounds.
it might be more like 30 becauseit's like, yeah, you know, I
just want to lose quick 10, likelean out.
It's like I bet you could lose10 and you wouldn't even notice
a difference.
Yeah, because the first 10three quarters is probably just
water weight.
Anyways, right, you know?
Um, I was 215 so actually justrecently.
(18:06):
So I just did a six month bulk,got way too fat, hated it like,
did the bit of bulk for way toolong and I went from like 190
to 195 to 212.
Um, now, unless you're onsteroids for most people, if you
put on 25 pounds, I bet you 15of its fat.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yes, it's, or more yeah, it's gonna be more.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, there'll be some some lean mass in there,
for sure but um and so then andthen now I'm like five months
into a cut and I pulled offalmost 20 pounds.
So I'm like 195, but it's beenway longer than I thought and I
was thinking at two, 15,.
When I was two, 15, I was like,okay, let me just get down to
(18:51):
200.
I'll be shredded Right 15pounds.
So 195 now, five pounds morethan I thought, yeah.
And I'm still like just finallystarting to see the first
little like flicker of abs thatyou want, right that you're like
ooh, 18 to 20 pounds later.
So wild dude.
I'm just finally, and I'm justlike fuck man, so that whole
(19:11):
bulk, after you've built and cut, maybe I'll net out two or
three pounds of muscle after allthat Yep.
You know, and so it takes a lotlonger than you think.
You probably have more body faton you than you think.
That's true, and as you getlighter and as you start burning
calories, your body doesabsolutely require less food to
(19:39):
function than it did when youwere heavier, and so you have to
keep adjusting caloriesdownward to compensate for this
drop in metabolic rate.
I was watching a video with drum mike israel and he was
interviewing another phd guy.
He was saying that if you lose20 pounds, that could actually
lower your metabolism by 25%.
(20:01):
What, wow?
They're seeing a 25% reductionin metabolic rate after a
20-pound loss.
That's crazy.
Or I think he said 10%, excuseme, 10% body mass reduction.
So if you're 200 pounds, thatwould be 20 pounds.
So, 10% of your total body sizereduction lowers lowest
(20:23):
metabolism by 25% give or take.
Everybody's a little bitdifferent, but on average that's
what they're seeing.
That's intense, right, so youknow it's like.
So you're hungry and then, asyou get smaller, you have to
actually eat less food.
You know so it takes a realstrong willpower to see all the
way to.
(20:43):
Like you know, maybe for women15%, for men 10%, Like it takes
a real drive to get there.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
That's a wild statistic.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, and then when you get there you know you got
to maintain it, or else what thefuck was the point of the whole
thing?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well then that's oh man, like you were saying, it
goes so quick, it's so easy torejoice or just be like all
right, well, summer's over, orwhatever.
Whatever the reason you choseto do it, once you arrive it's
like the diligence does not goaway and it's bulking season
again, yeah, and then you justlose it all.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
But you got to be careful man.
Like the cloak dagger ofbulking man, it can be real.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It's excuse to eat ice.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Excuse me, that's what got me, because I'm like,
all right, I'm like so lean andthin, now, yeah, I want to bulk
up, and then that it's like it's.
It seduces you, that you think,yeah, I'm just gonna bulk.
That makes perfect sense.
That's what people do.
Six months later, you've gainedall the weight back that you
lost.
You're fatter than you werewhen you started.
And all this while you thoughtyou were doing something
positive for yourself by bulking, when really you just blew it
(21:45):
and now you're starting fromsquare one again.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You got to go through another six month fat loss
cycle.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You're like fuck, oh man, yeah, um, but anyway, so
all right, well, I would.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I was gonna, I was gonna ask you, so that all being
said, though, like, how do youdo it?
As someone who has walked thepath.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So if we want to get like nuts and bolts on it, um,
it's gonna be very difficult togo all the way now.
You could probably get to 15body fat by just making better
food choices and increasing youractivity and and cutting out
sugary drinks and snacking, byjust kind of just generally.
You know, if you're a healthyguy, you could probably get to
15 by just generally, justgenerally.
(22:24):
You know, if you're a healthyguy, you could probably get to
15 by just generally making goodfood choices if you're a
healthy woman.
You could probably get to 20 byjust doing up, doing better.
Hit your 10 000 steps, work outa few days a week.
Yeah, eat single ingredientfoods for the most part, limit
the takeout, limit the sugarydrinks and you'll get in pretty
decent shape.
I would say I get some goodsleep.
But that next bit, you know, um, it's like they say, like when
(22:50):
you're when, when the job is 90done, congratulations, you're
halfway there.
Yeah, because that next 10 ofthe work is going to be harder
than the first 90 was.
And so getting to 15, I think,is great.
Uh, you'll be healthy, you'lllook great in a, in a t-shirt,
all that fun stuff.
But to get to 10, which I thinkis give or take a couple
(23:13):
percentage points where you wantto land to see like, wow, that
dude is fit or that girl is veryfit, you then you got to get.
Then you really have to take itto the next level and you got
to start measuring your food.
Yeah, it's very difficult toensure that you are in a proper
calorie deficit, especially asyou get smaller.
Remember, if you lose 10.
So I just lost 10 of my bodyfat or my body mass, yeah, so
(23:36):
that means theoretically.
My metabolism now is 25 lessthan what it was potentially a
few months ago.
So what does that mean?
That means that instead of 2700calories, I had to cut it down
to 23, which sucks.
That's oh yeah sucks because myappetite is still up there oh
yeah, you know.
Uh, it's not my appetite, andhunger hormones haven't adjusted
(23:58):
to my metabolism.
They're still up at 215.
So that step one is you reallygot to measure that food out so
you can just guarantee yourselfthat sweet spot of about a 500
calorie deficit per day.
That is pretty universallywhat's recommended.
You'll lose weight faster youcan.
(24:25):
You'll lose weight faster ifyou go, if, if you go into like
a thousand calorie deficit right, but it's almost so, it's, it's
, it's.
It's so much harder by order ofmagnitude that the the the
likelihood you're gonna stickwith it just diminishes down to
nothing.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, it's.
This is the sustainability isjust gonna go out the window
window.
Once you start getting into adeficit 30%, 40% it's just
you're going to crash and burn.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, you'll see the scale move every day, but then
you're going to the stress,fatigue, everything is just
going to hit you.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, you're going to be cranky and just cortisol all
the time.
Can't think straight, you'renot going to be sleeping well,
so all these negative thingsstart compounding on themselves
Performance in the gym.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Oh yeah, totally You're going to start losing a
lot of muscle mass.
That was another big thing toois, like you know, anything
below 500 calorie deficit perday.
Yeah, you start burning throughmuscle tissue cause you can't
train hard.
Your body's like we, so youknow.
(25:28):
It's very simple math.
You just can Google how manycalories has my body burned.
Google that and a calculatorwill pop up and you just enter
your age, height, weight,activity level.
It'll give you a decent littleestimation, which I think is a
good starting point at least.
Yeah, it's generally accurate.
And then you just pull 500 fromthat, you know.
So if your metabolic ratethroughout the day is 2,500,
(25:52):
which is very average, then eat2,000.
And you're probably going to bejust fine.
But you really got to make sureit is 2,000.
Because other studies haveshown, on average, people are 50
to 100% wrong in their calorietracking.
100% off, yeah, you thinkyou're eating 1,200?
Yeah, and we all know the womenout there like I only eat 1200
(26:13):
calories a day and they're like180 pounds.
You're like I think you mightbe missing a couple days here,
right?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
yeah, sorry, I don't mean to be sound mean, but no,
but this is the fact of thematter, but, yeah, it's too long
, it's.
The truth, though, it's thatwithout us, without a food scale
, without counting every calorieand food logging, you just
don't have the accuracy on yournumbers, and I think to reach
that specificity of the goalwe're talking about, you have to
get that specific and you haveto be consistent with it day in
(26:42):
and day out you can't just kindof like shoot from the hip and
like, oh, I'll eat a salad orI'll just like eat a little bit
less.
It might put you in a deficit.
But I think, like you weresaying to, that last leg of the
journey is going to require thatthe true accuracy, which is
only going to come from havingyour macros set, measuring out
your food and I think this iswhere, like being smart, you
(27:06):
know, it's like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So you and I are both turning 40 this year and we've
been in this, we've been doingthis for forever, you know.
But I remember like in thisyear and we've been in this,
we've been doing this forforever, you know.
But I remember like in our 20swe were both probably like we
were remember that littlehandheld thing it would say we
were like six percent eightpercent I'm sure it was off by a
few, but we were very lean,yeah, and we never tracked.
In fact, we tried to eat as muchas we could.
(27:28):
It's just so funny to just likeman, if I knew then what I know
now, because now, at 40, it isharder you know 40 year olds
body doesn't want to release fat, like a 25 year old does no,
and so it's a little bit harder.
But like um, this is where youjust got to be a little bit more
sophisticated on your foodchoice, because hunger
(27:50):
management is the name of thegame.
Yeah, like if you're starvingall the time because you're
making really poor food choicesthat just fly through you.
Like you're drinking yourcalories, you're, you're eating,
you're burning through all yourcalories and fats and not
leaving any room for, like,starches and lean proteins
you're gonna be fiber?
yeah, you're gonna be starvingand it's gonna make it very
(28:11):
difficult.
So like having three squares aday that are like between four
and six hundred calories, thatare just like 10 grams of fiber
in each one of those platesveggies, fruits, lean protein
just stacked.
So it's like it's like hard toget the whole plate down.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, you're like eating the volume.
It's like, oh man, I'm stillchewing on this whole food.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, like that's what you want.
You want meals that actuallyfeel difficult to get through,
but you've already done the mathand so you know that meal is
only 400 or 500 calories.
It just looks like a lot offood, right, and that's the
secret.
And then you can just kind ofbackfill your calories in with
(28:59):
like bars or shakes.
But three meals like that thatare forced 600 calories are just
a mound of veggies and leanprotein.
That's how you're going to feelsatisfied, as you, you know,
descend body fat down to bodyfat hell right down down into
the bowels.
Yeah and so so you know, you gotto understand your calories.
Don't cut more than 500 a dayoff of your total daily energy
(29:19):
expenditure.
Don't do intense cardio.
That would be anotherrecommendation that I would give
, like avoid the boot camps,avoid the sprints.
Save that for when you'reeating at maintenance or when
you're eating a little bit of asurplus, then your body can
handle it.
It's too stressful, it's toostressful and it triggers too
much appetite.
Yeah, you know, you go do aboot camp class, you're fucking
(29:40):
starving afterwards and it'sgonna be very difficult to only
eat 2 000 calories if you'vejust kicked your own ass.
And, by the way it the appetitesurge from a boot camp versus
how many calories that classactually burned is not worth it.
It's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Not for the calorie exchange and if you notice,
aesthetically you probably wouldget more benefit from just
doing some concerted weighttraining to look a certain way,
to fill yourself out more.
I mean, boot camp will make youfit, it's good stuff, but in
terms of if it's good stuff, butin terms of if it's an
aesthetic goal, you probablyjust get more benefit from it's
not.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You're not giving your body any real reason to
keep muscle on you, yeah, and soyou know it's like spend your
time doing, you know, 10 to 20sets per muscle group per week.
Two or three reps close tofailure, hit 10 000 steps a day.
It burns the same amount ofcalories as a boot camp does,
(30:38):
but triggers no appetite or verylittle, and it's actually very
recovering.
Um, and then you just focus onyour food.
Let's focus on the food focusthe food and like honestly, and
it keeps sodium levels kind ofat bay.
Because that can be a real mindfuck if you're eating the right
amount of food but there's justloaded with sodium or whatever
and you're just not losing anyweight.
Your body's just holding on towater, that's.
(31:00):
That can be difficult, butthat's really the secret.
It's like it's like good foodchoice, 500 calorie deficit.
I'll add one more thing to thatjust like get as close as you
can to about a pound, a gram ofprotein per pound.
So if you're 180 pounds, 180grams protein, easy math, um,
and that'll help keep you fullsatisfied.
Abundance of amino acids, soyour body can maintain muscle
(31:22):
tissue as you burn body fat.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, Cause I think what I think sometimes people
don't even realize is thateverybody has a six pack Like.
The shape of the muscle isinherently that shape.
You just have to be lean enoughin order to see it.
But I do want to also say, onthe back end of that, is that
actually doing some hypertrophyfor your abs, or asking your abs
to grow through concertedabdominal exercises, will also
(31:45):
kind of come in from the backend, because obviously the more
bulbous the muscle is, the moreit'll push up against whatever
degree of fat, stretching thefat out.
So, fundamentally, you have toreduce the body fat, but you
take the body fat you have rightnow and if you made your bicep
twice as big, it would stretchagainst that body fat and thin
it out as well.
As, even though we all havethat six-pack shape, they can
(32:07):
grow, they can become morebulbous in 3D, so to speak.
And so I do think that if thisis a goal that you're looking to
do, it's not just about beinglean, but actually having some
type of hypertrophy training foryour abs is going to be of
benefit.
It's a smaller slice of the pie, no doubt, but all things said
and done, the abs will look thatmuch better once you get lean,
(32:30):
and I also just think that itcan't be.
If we're talking aboutmasterful six pack abs, you got
to get some concerted abs,masterful abs, masterful abs.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, yeah, no for sure, and and, uh, you know
that's interesting, so I think alot of people would make the
mistake.
So once you've kind of hit thequote of about 10, 15 sets per
week, yeah it's not a matter oftraining harder anymore, it's
(33:00):
all the other things we justtalked about.
Yeah, but with that being said,to your point, I think that if
you just tack on a few sets tofailure exactly at the end of
every workout of first, likejust pick a pick a different ab
exercise every time you work outand just do three sets to
failure of it, so like if youlift, even if you're only
lifting three times a week,that's still nine sets to
(33:22):
failure.
And remember, even when you'redoing squats and lunges and
bench press and pull-ups, yourabs are working oh 100.
So they're always on on like anisometric level.
But then, just to bring it alittle extra hypertrophy, man,
just three sets of bosu ballstretch crunch, I was gonna say,
if you didn't even knowsomething with progressive.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Or, like you do a stretch crunch on a bosu ball
and then use a little two and ahalf pound plane on your chest
and a five pound plane on yourchest and keep it simple, but
follow the the tried and truemethods of of a progressive
overload and a plan.
I think you be surprisedBecause also a lot of people
like skip abs.
Like I just noticed, peopleskip abs.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
A lot of well-respected people skip abs.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
They're just like eh you know, I mean and it's true
Like they get it worked all thetime.
But I do think that if we'relooking really for that pop,
when you take the shirt off, youhave to have some concerted ab
training.
It doesn't have to be crazy,but you just have to have
something in there For sure yeah, that's all I do is I'll just
at the end of each workout, justpick a different one.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You know, bench sit-ups, stretch BOSU, ball
crunches, reverse crunches offthe bench is one of my faves, so
good Sometimes.
Just some good old-fashionedV-ups, you know, are good, but
yeah, just mix and match.
You don't have to get assophisticated with your
programming as you would withother body parts, but just get
something in there a few days aweek, a few sets to failure, and
(34:36):
you'd be surprised.
Yeah it goes a long way, yeah,all right.
Well, there you go, team.
So go get those six packs.
Do it.
Send us pictures before andafter so we can take credit for
it and you know, let me know inthe comments how it goes for you
, if you've achieved it and howyou feel after accomplishing it.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Was it worth it?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, was it worth it ?
That'd be fun to know.
Yeah, all right team.
So that was episode 37 ofCoach's Corner.
We're getting there, we'redoing it.
We're more professional by theweek.
Damn it, that's right, allright.
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