April 24, 2025 • 27 mins
This week, we’re examining three of the most controversial ads we’ve ever encountered. We’ll analyze why they missed the mark, the backlash they sparked, and what important lessons marketers can draw from each one. From tone-deaf messaging to campaigns that completely misunderstood their audience, these ads prove how quickly things can go wrong when brands don’t read the room.
Gin Sonic
The Gin Sonic (soda + tonic = “sonic”) has been popular in Japan for years, but only began to find a footing in the United States in the late 2010s. Now, many bartenders around the U.S. are making the light, refreshing cocktail in their bars, helping to spread its charms to drinkers more accustomed to Vodka Tonics and G&Ts.
Ingredients:
- 1.5 ounces gin (such as Roku)
- 2.25 ounces club soda
- 2.25 ounces tonic water
- Garnish: yuzu twist
Directions:
- Fill a highball glass with ice, then add the gin, club soda and tonic.
- Garnish with a yuzu twist.
Recipe Credit: https://www.liquor.com/recipes/gin-sonic/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Caitlin.
Well, hello.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello again, let's talk about ads that suck.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Let's do it and they go beyond sucking.
I'm ready to roast some people.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
They're actually just .
Speaker 1 (00:17):
They're pretty bad.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Really bad.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Really hit the.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was going to say evil, but they're not
necessarily evil.
Tone deaf definitely comes tomind.
I was just going to say thesame thing.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Also, and just because of the way that I am
like, generally, the patriarchy.
So that's all Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know, we can, yeah, and we've got a really
like so that we don't have to gotoo far and it's actually a
very cleansing light drink.
But we've got a very easy drink.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's called a.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Gin Sonic, which makes me go to hedgehogs and
drive-in burger joints.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh, that makes me want a cheese dog.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh, a cheese dog sounds good.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
With a little Chicago dog.
We have a.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Wienerschnitzel here now.
I need to go check it out.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh yes, Welcome to Der Wienerschnitzel.
We've talked about this.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We've talked about that once.
Yeah, I think it was launching.
Oh, it was with Danelle, wetalked about it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Is that why?
Yeah, that's right.
All Things Food.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Because he.
But anyway, a Sonic is justsoda and tonic.
It's that mashup work puttogether.
It's their couple name.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I love a gin Like a G&T is kind of my go-to.
The only difference is I prefera lemon twist to a lime.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This is going to be interesting because there's a
twist on the twist, but you mayhave to go to an Asian market.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
You got to search a little bit for this twist.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's not available at your local standard grocer, as
evidenced by the fact that Japanhas been doing this for years,
so it is a Japanese fruit thatyou get your twist from.
It started to kind of come tothe US in the late 2010s.
It's just weird because inAmerica we don't put club soda
and tonic in the same drink.
Usually it's an either, or Iwanted gin and soda, gin and
(02:07):
tonic.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Do we know why that is?
Nobody knows.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I don't know.
I mean people do club sodabecause they want it to be zero
calories.
I know that it's just bubblywater.
Although tonic has like threecalories, it's not much.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, but there's a little bit of sugar in there.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
With the quinine, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
But you won't get malaria.
So you will not, you've got todrink a lot of tonic.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And plus the British.
So the British were the oneswho started putting rum and lime
on ships for sailors as well,as we talked about last week, I
believe.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, well, as we talked about last week, I
believe, um, but they were alsothe ones that started putting uh
the quinine uh in tonic in agin drink for their sailors or
their military in india.
Yeah, that's where you get likenavy strength gin.
Yep, yeah, might also be.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Might also be pirates six o'clock and a half dozen,
another yeah, um.
So yeah, it's light, it'srefreshing, it's wonderful.
And it's simple, so no shakerneeded.
How do we do this?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, this is an ounce and a half of gin.
The producer notes say Roku,which is a Japanese gin and can
recommend it Also a TV streamingstick.
Oh, that's correct.
I know I was like I don'tunderstand this direct
competition for my husband'scompany.
So two and a quarter ounces ofclub soda, two and a quarter
(03:29):
ounces of tonic water, andyou're going to garnish with a
yuzu twist which sounds like areal hip dance move.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And, as we learned, at a normal grocery store you
could get yuzu in almostanything, including potentially
dishwashing liquid.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, a lot of yuzu flavored things, but not
necessarily yuzu things.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Like an actual yuzu, which is a fruit, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So our best recommendation is your local
Asian market.
It's a citrus fruit, mm-hmm.
Yep, it's close to like amandarin orange, it says so you
could maybe get away with acutie if you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I mean, it's not going to be the Japanese version
then, because they do Mandarinoranges.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It's not, but my human child has eaten her body
weight in cuties over the lasttwo weeks.
That's good, so we are slowlymoving her towards peeling them
on her own, which feels like itshould be a milestone for the
pediatrician, but I don't thinkhe'll give a fuck.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
No, I think he only will care that she's not eating
the peel, though I do knowpeople who do.
They like that bitter oily peelon those and I'm like, oh, the
only thing, what's the thingthat you oily peel on those?
And I'm like, oh, the onlything, what's the thing that you
eat the peel on?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's the little ones, Our neighbor in San Diego had
some and we always got them.
Clementine Kiwi no, it's alittle tiny fruit, pomegranate.
I'm just naming fruits.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, it's not a pomegranate.
So just watch the film, that'swhat it is.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I'm just naming fruits.
No, it's not a pomegranate.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Kumquats.
That's what it is Like a littlenectarine.
Yeah, and it's a little tinykumquat and it gives you that
bitter sweet with it, becauseit's sweet inside and a little
bit bitter, but it also has avery thin skin on it, so it's
really good, much like me yeah.
Guava.
You can also eat the skin of umand kiwi, which it's fuzzy,
(05:29):
though.
So that's a little.
I don't like it I don't likethat.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's too many things.
Okay, so to make this, you'regoing to fill a highball glass
with ice, add your gin, clubsoda and tonic, garnish with
whatever citrus fruit you prefer.
Technically to make this, youwant it to be yuzu, but, as we
have discussed, those are maybenot widely available.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I bet this.
You know what kiwi needs to bea garnish in more things, I feel
like.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
They're real folly.
A party though, like they'revery.
It's a very soft fruit.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Maybe it needs to be a muddling agent then, like you
need to muddle kiwi in something, although my sister's allergic.
She'll eat it every once in awhile, but her tongue swells up
and she gets fuzzy, but not tothe point where she needs an
EpiPen.
I don't think.
Yeah, she really loves kiwi,and so sometimes she'll just do
it anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Food allergies, though sometimes you have to be
careful with this.
I did not know this, butsometimes food where the more
you expose yourself to itsometimes, the stronger the
reaction can be.
So maybe just keep an EpiPenaround.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
She avoids kiwi for the most part, but I think she
accidentally had it in like afruit salad or something and
she's like is that my tongue?
Oh God, like I would have been.
Like let's call an ambulance,right now.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Do you know what's worse than a swollen tongue?
The ads we're going to talkabout after the break.
I'm already annoyed, I got tobe honest.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Like.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm already mad at these.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, what wasn't annoying was that super smooth
transition.
Thank you so much On the firstpart.
I love it All right, so let'sdive into this.
This one was titled Live forNow, featured Kendall Jenner and
Pepsi.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Was this a Super Bowl ad?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It might have been.
I can't remember.
It might have been.
It was a pretty big.
Whatever it was on, yeah, andI'm pretty sure we're going to
take a moment so Zach can stickthis in here and then we will
talk about it.
So it'll be on the videoversion on YouTube, for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Or show notes if you want to watch, but if you don't
know what this is, just maybewouldn't.
Okay, just don't watch it.
It's going to make you mad.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
All right, so he should have been able to insert
it there.
We paused for a little bit.
Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad from2017, joins a protest.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
First of all, the premise is completely bananas.
No, it's not George Floyd thatwas 2020.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, oh, this is pre 2020.
No, oh, this is pre that.
Yeah, what were we protestingin 2017?
I don't even remember.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I mean like all of the other.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Okay, yeah, there's plenty going on, so anyway,
protest, she joins it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
She would never join a picket line.
That's number one.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
She would cross a picket line, I think I don't
know, oh, 100%.
Although.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
But just like.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Their show's non-union, I'm sure.
It's reality, like they don'twant to pay.
It's reality, so anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
That was actually why reality TV got big.
Here's a little tangent for you, the writer's strike.
Like the 2012 writer's strike.
Wasn't it no strike, wasn't itno?
20, no, no, no.
It was before that.
It was like 2009 or 2010,because it was like the season
of friday night lights, wherelandry kills a guy because they
had to hire all like non-unionwriters and everyone just like
(09:35):
forgets that that happens.
It was like the second or thirdseason of friday night lights,
but that's like the mostprescient.
But that's why reality tv gotbig, because they they didn't
want to hire writers and then100.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Now here we are.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Anyway was doing it before that with the real world,
but um anyway so all of that tosay, like it's tone, tone deaf,
which we mentioned um, it'scompletely unrealistic,
unrealistic Like one mediocresoda isn't going to cure what
(10:09):
ails us?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And I think that the idea that if you just share a
Pepsi with the cop who's at yourprotest, everything will be
fine and the world will be ahappy place is just the like.
It cannot get more tone-deafthan that I don't think I mean
they also, some of the protestimagery appeared to be lifted
(10:32):
from actual protests or mimickedit very closely, which really
just made people think badthings and I get that we want to
idealize things.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I get that we want to be positive things.
I get that we want to bepositive, but at that time, like
there was so much rawfrustration in a lot of
different circles thattrivializing or simplifying and
just like removing all of thenuance from those conversations
(11:10):
was hurtful for a lot of people.
And also just again sounrealistic.
And how much money did theyhave to pay her to make this
terrible ad?
A lot of it, millions ofdollars.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh yeah, so the other thing.
So I have a whole other reasonwhy it's bad, because it is
trying to bring back the spiritof the Coke.
I'd like to teach the world tosing ad from 1971.
Wonderful year, lots ofwonderful people born in 1971.
Because in that whole ideathere was, you know, with
(11:48):
everything going on, I think,like Vietnam was still going on
at that point, right.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Was just basically like you could have a little
break.
Just share a Coke with a friendand the world will be happier,
which is a lot different thanwhere we were politically and
socially in 2017.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, give the cop a Pepsi and he might not murder
your friend.
Is that what we're going?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yep, and it was also the Coke thing was actually
supposed to be a global thing ona hilltop in Italy.
The hilltop was the name of thecommercial Young people from
all over the world to bring thatmessage to them.
So anyway, I just feel like itwas a ripoff of what was
honestly one of my favorite ads.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's all been done, yeah and I have the little 45
from.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I have the Coca-Cola one and the, the one from the
band the the real seekers or theseekers, or something like that
, I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I don't know.
I wasn't born in 1971.
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, in 1971.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Anyway, yeah, my aunt's bought that for me, so if
I get a record player, I'llhave it, I think that the real
lesson from this ad is somethingwe talked about last week.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Does your brand belong here?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
No, probably not no.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I mean Dasani handing out water to protesters.
I think if you're doing that onthe streets at an actual
protest and happens to be likepicked up by media, that's fine.
Making an ad about it, no,doesn't seem right.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, well, and I think it's.
Yeah.
It's again like brands tryingto capitalize on, like social
movements to sell product, whichis not ideal anyway I think I
have mentioned this before butlike capitalism is not going to
save us from the socioeconomiccrises within which we are
(13:48):
trapped.
I was like what is?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
touching my leg, but it's just OK.
So, Caitlin, the next one getsto one of your favorite topics
the patriarchy Trapped.
Yeah, I was like what istouching my leg, but it's just
Okay.
So, Caitlin, the next one getsto one of your favorite topics
the patriarchy.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I just I'm going to.
I might hurt someone.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I will share this one because it's so awful.
So this is Burger King UK in2021 on International Women's
Day.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So we're going to celebrate women right.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
We're going to celebrate women and they tweeted
women belong in the kitchen.
I get the intent.
The intent is women should befemale chefs.
They were putting outscholarships for female chefs,
All of that.
You do not make that statementby saying women belong in the
(14:38):
kitchen um, but yeah, it did nothelp their cause at all.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's like um.
The flip side of this one forme is it was one of my my
favorite super bowl ads wasnike's you can't win Like that's
how you do.
An idiom that's how you do aeuphemism or like a turn of
phrase.
It's like you can't win, so youmight as well just do what
you're going to do.
Anyway, that's cool andbeautiful.
(15:05):
Women belong in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, also Nike's.
You Can't Win is a whole thingand they explain it and you can
see it.
It's visual like you can't winis a whole thing and they
explain it and you can see it.
It's visual like all that.
You can't just tweet it out.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So is that I didn't feel like my watch could handle
the blood pressure increase.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh, did you take it off?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I didn't, no, I didn't read this one, so they
just like, legitimately tweetedit out with no additional
context.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, they were meant to put context behind it about
their campaign promoting theirscholarships for female chefs,
but they didn't.
Nobody cared.
By the time the tweet went outwomen belong in the kitchen it
was dead and over with.
No one was paying attention tothe scholarships for female
chefs and Sometimes when you'retrying to be clever, you can
(15:59):
really screw your message.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, and here's where my real frustration lies
is like, how many chefs isBurger King hiring?
How many of them are women?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I mean, are you really a chef at Burger King?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
But I'm sure they have like culinary professionals
in there like R&D, right.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're right, you knowwhat I mean.
They do yeah because they do.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Mcdonald's and Burger King do have people, You're
right.
I mean Wells Blue Bunny haspeople who do like flavor
testing.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So like how many of the you know?
Like, if you're gonna tweet outinane shit like that, what are
you doing actually?
What are your actual practices?
I think and that's kind of thepoint of the first one too is
like what are your practicesLike if you're trying to put out
this like equality and peaceand love message, like what are
(16:54):
you actually doing in yourbusiness to back that up?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Because that's like that's the real rub of a lot of
these is like the authenticityis missing, right, and like
people can see through that yeah, and I think that you know you
could do something like womenbelong in the kitchen and the
boardroom and the executivelobby or whatever like you could
.
You could tack on to it, youcan have it all you just can't
(17:18):
sleep or eat a balanced meal, Imean they didn't say that they
should be barefoot and pregnantwhile they're in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
The bar is not high.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
No, and I did look it up because I know you don't
want to and it was Burger KingUK.
But yes, it just says womenbelong in the kitchen period.
End of tweet.
The whole tweet.
Nothing but that tweet.
Nothing but that tweet.
And somebody, becca Beckeri,who we don't know said please
don't use sexism as clickbait.
They did delete the tweeteventually but, as evidenced by
(17:57):
the fact that USA Today has apicture of it in their story, it
is All right, so that's so bad?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I mean so we're going to move on from sexism.
I don't want to get into racism.
More Good.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Which is also bad, even if it's inadvertent.
It's one of those where, ifyou're going to use people of
color, gay people- women,whoever.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
When you use yeah, when you use them yeah because
you should um, well, that wasvery loud.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Um have somebody, you know, maybe from that group
review the ad, give you adifferent perspective.
Um, this is where diversity isa very good thing it's always a
good thing but this is reallywhere it can help you out and
not hurt you.
Yeah, because you can look atan ad and be like oh, they had
nobody.
Like there was a bunch of whitemen who looked at that ad and
(18:47):
that was it.
Or white.
Like it's just, it doesn't makesense.
So this one is the Dove's RealBeauty Facebook ad in 2017.
The Real Beauty campaign waslauded.
It has tons of awards and wasreally good.
They've had a couple ofmissteps with it.
This was the biggest one yeah umessentially yeah a black woman
(19:09):
peeled off her shirt, which washer shirt and her face and
everything, and she was a whitewoman underneath underneath.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
It was like show.
The intention that they missedon completely was to show that,
like, this product works foreverybody.
But, why not then start withthe white woman and like, if
you're going to do it, itshouldn't be like removing or
(19:39):
what was the Michaelson videowhere everybody shakes their
head and becomes a differentperson, like male, female?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
oh, different races, black or white maybe, yeah, like
that tactic where you've gotthat volume can work this it's
not, it it's not a couple ofother missteps.
I think you found one from 2011.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
That was a print ad where they had a before and
after, and the dark people wereon the floor.
Just just look at it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, and I think the other thing here, because I've
done a ton of ads and we've hadlike diversity, quotients and
ads just to make sure we'rerepresenting like the customer
base and the society, which is avery good thing.
Like, you do want to representyour customer base, but one of
the things that we taught a verylarge retailer is you don't
have to have everyone in one ad,like, especially if you're
(20:41):
using spokespeople, which wewere, we're like, okay, so we've
got this old white guy who's aspokesperson, but it's him and
his family and they're all whitemen and they're in racing.
However, we can certainlyfeature a female in this other
ad, maybe a female of color, andyour portfolio can represent
(21:02):
who you are.
Every ad doesn't have to have ablack person, a white person
and somebody who might behispanic, might be asian, might
be white we're not sure, becausethat's a mystery?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
yes, well, well.
And and doesn't it also speakto like your placements and your
target audiences, right, likeif you're, if you're dove in
this instance, think about whereyou're placing things, and I
realized that that placement hasgotten more targeted as since
20, like 2017, it wasn't as goodas it is today, yeah yeah, but
(21:35):
put a black woman in an essencead and put a know black woman
and a white woman in glamour orwhatever those like print
placements are going to be.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Well, they have just buy two print placements and
have one that has a white womanwho is all cracked, taking it
off and showing that she'ssmooth now, which is part of
doves like body washes.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
They make your skin smooth yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And then I have another ad that shows a black
woman doing it Like it feelslike some of these aren't hard.
But I know we're like seeingthese in hindsight, like we're
sort of, you know, mondaymorning quarterbacking, as the
saying goes.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Monday morning, that's correct.
Good sports, yay.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I know, thank you, but can it also be like isn't
there monday night football andthursday night football and
saturday football?
So can it be wednesday friday,like?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
anyway, um, I do feel like, had we been in the room
when these came up, we wouldhave been like, oh, oh, no, like
no, I that's yeah, and to todoves, I don't know.
Credit, not credit necessarily,but that time period like 2011,
2017, even in the 2020s, right,like things have changed so
(22:52):
quickly in advertising and likewhat maybe used to be okay.
people are more sensitive to oraware of now, and so I think
that's the broader conversationis like does this work?
Do we need to have other eyeson it?
Like, if we get really in theweeds on this, who's losing out?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So the answer is you always need other eyes on it.
You just do.
It's interesting because I wasreading about I don't know how I
came across this, but MaryTyler Moore when she was
launching the Mary Tyler Mooreshow at CBS.
She and her husband had MTMproductions and she wrote the
whole thing and, like the pilot,had it ready to go.
And when she took it to CBS theywere like, ooh, like, could she
(23:37):
be married?
And we see the husbandoccasionally and she's like, no,
like could she be married?
And we see the husbandoccasionally and she's like no,
it's a single woman.
I want the focus to be on hercareer and her friendships and
her life.
I don't want it to be on herfamily or her husband.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
She's not like second to anybody.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And they're like, okay, okay, okay, so hear us out
.
Could she be divorced,america's?
Comfortable with divorcedpeople and she said, no, she's a
career woman she's like 28 or20.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I mean, like in the show, she's young too.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And they were like, okay, how about a boyfriend that
we see like every four episodes?
And she's like no.
And so CBS was like we reallyneed this.
And they walked away becauseshe said, if I can't produce
this the way I want to produceit, it's not worth making.
And CBS did come back to themand they wanted like network
(24:26):
sign off on every script.
They wanted them to take scriptnotes, and so what I was
reading is like they agreed toit and said, sure, you can give
us notes, and then summarilyignored all the notes.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And there was- your feedback has been received,
correct.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Thank you and I have filed it where it appropriately
goes.
But there was one episode thatwas.
I can't remember the name ofthe episode or what it was about
, but it was particularly like.
They're like oh, cbs was likeAmerica cannot do this, you need
to change these five things.
And she's like no, she's likeif you don't want to air it,
then we're done.
Like you've broken our contractand we're done.
And so they aired it.
(24:58):
Huge ratings hit.
America loved it.
She's like this is because theytold her America's not ready
for a powerful single woman.
And she's like well, americabetter get ready because we're
making the show.
And I'm like where I want ahundred.
Mary Tyler Moore's Like I justwant to high five her.
I think she's dead, though,right.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, she's dead.
Yeah, she's dead.
May she rest in peace.
Now I'm just going to go backto work.
After you riled me up, I don'thave a march for you to go to
right now.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
There's not a.
I don't want to march.
I'm so tired, I know I'm sotired.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Can we make it like a parade, where I ride in a
convertible and shake my fist?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
at people instead of waving?
Or could we just change thingssystemically so we could all go
home and take a nap?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Oh, I would love to take a nap, I might do that
except I think I have a meetingwith you after this, so I can't
take a nap.
All right, so don't be stupid.
Get other people to look atyour stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Ask somebody's opinion who thinks differently
than you.
Please, yes, to look at yourstuff.
Ask somebody's opinion whothinks differently than you,
please yes.
All right, yeah, diversity ofthought is just as important.
How's that?
What's our, what's our upcomingepisode?
What are we talking about next?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Okay, wait, wait, wait, I got it.
I know it's not in the notes,but Zach told us earlier we're
going to do one aboutKickstarter.
How do you market yourKickstarter?
Allegedly one guest, maybe twoguests, who knows?
So that'll be interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Does Zach even know?
Nobody knows.
Nobody knows how many guests.
He knows at least one guest.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
He must be trying to confirm the second one.
But all right, bring us out,bring us home.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Sorry, I just need one more deep breath because I'm
still annoyed.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Okay, everybody take a deep breath.
This was a heavy episode and solike you just want to slap
people when you see these things.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Did you know the heavy?
I mean, I know you know theheavy sigh is good for your
nervous system.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Do I sigh?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
sometimes oh my God, everyone else just like a good
heavy sigh.
It can also be like a lionbreath.
I tried to teach my daughterthe lion breath and she was like
I don't like that, it's a yogathing.
Anyway, you can find our agencyat antidote, underscore 71.
If you have a question you'dlike to send our way, you can
visit ctapodcastlive to shoot usan email.
Better yet, leave us a voicemessage on our hotline at 4 0, 2
(27:21):
, 7, 1, 8, 9, 9 7, 1.
Your question will make it intoa future episode and you could
own one of our very cute littlecoffee table books.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And I did test that and it did work.
So it does go to the rightplace.
It goes straight to voicemail.
No one will talk to you, canjust leave a message.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Leave a message, nobody has to talk.
Yeah, we'll talk to you.
You can just leave a message.
Leave a message, nobody has totalk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'd love tohear from you.
We'll see you next week.
We'll see you next time.
Caitlin.
Well, hello.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello again, let's talk about ads that suck.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Let's do it and they go beyond sucking.
I'm ready to roast some people.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
They're actually just .
Speaker 1 (00:17):
They're pretty bad.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Really bad.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Really hit the.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was going to say evil, but they're not
necessarily evil.
Tone deaf definitely comes tomind.
I was just going to say thesame thing.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Also, and just because of the way that I am
like, generally, the patriarchy.
So that's all Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know, we can, yeah, and we've got a really
like so that we don't have to gotoo far and it's actually a
very cleansing light drink.
But we've got a very easy drink.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's called a.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Gin Sonic, which makes me go to hedgehogs and
drive-in burger joints.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh, that makes me want a cheese dog.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh, a cheese dog sounds good.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
With a little Chicago dog.
We have a.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Wienerschnitzel here now.
I need to go check it out.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh yes, Welcome to Der Wienerschnitzel.
We've talked about this.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We've talked about that once.
Yeah, I think it was launching.
Oh, it was with Danelle, wetalked about it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Is that why?
Yeah, that's right.
All Things Food.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Because he.
But anyway, a Sonic is justsoda and tonic.
It's that mashup work puttogether.
It's their couple name.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I love a gin Like a G&T is kind of my go-to.
The only difference is I prefera lemon twist to a lime.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This is going to be interesting because there's a
twist on the twist, but you mayhave to go to an Asian market.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
You got to search a little bit for this twist.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's not available at your local standard grocer, as
evidenced by the fact that Japanhas been doing this for years,
so it is a Japanese fruit thatyou get your twist from.
It started to kind of come tothe US in the late 2010s.
It's just weird because inAmerica we don't put club soda
and tonic in the same drink.
Usually it's an either, or Iwanted gin and soda, gin and
(02:07):
tonic.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Do we know why that is?
Nobody knows.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I don't know.
I mean people do club sodabecause they want it to be zero
calories.
I know that it's just bubblywater.
Although tonic has like threecalories, it's not much.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, but there's a little bit of sugar in there.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
With the quinine, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
But you won't get malaria.
So you will not, you've got todrink a lot of tonic.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And plus the British.
So the British were the oneswho started putting rum and lime
on ships for sailors as well,as we talked about last week, I
believe.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, well, as we talked about last week, I
believe, um, but they were alsothe ones that started putting uh
the quinine uh in tonic in agin drink for their sailors or
their military in india.
Yeah, that's where you get likenavy strength gin.
Yep, yeah, might also be.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Might also be pirates six o'clock and a half dozen,
another yeah, um.
So yeah, it's light, it'srefreshing, it's wonderful.
And it's simple, so no shakerneeded.
How do we do this?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, this is an ounce and a half of gin.
The producer notes say Roku,which is a Japanese gin and can
recommend it Also a TV streamingstick.
Oh, that's correct.
I know I was like I don'tunderstand this direct
competition for my husband'scompany.
So two and a quarter ounces ofclub soda, two and a quarter
(03:29):
ounces of tonic water, andyou're going to garnish with a
yuzu twist which sounds like areal hip dance move.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And, as we learned, at a normal grocery store you
could get yuzu in almostanything, including potentially
dishwashing liquid.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, a lot of yuzu flavored things, but not
necessarily yuzu things.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Like an actual yuzu, which is a fruit, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So our best recommendation is your local
Asian market.
It's a citrus fruit, mm-hmm.
Yep, it's close to like amandarin orange, it says so you
could maybe get away with acutie if you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I mean, it's not going to be the Japanese version
then, because they do Mandarinoranges.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It's not, but my human child has eaten her body
weight in cuties over the lasttwo weeks.
That's good, so we are slowlymoving her towards peeling them
on her own, which feels like itshould be a milestone for the
pediatrician, but I don't thinkhe'll give a fuck.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
No, I think he only will care that she's not eating
the peel, though I do knowpeople who do.
They like that bitter oily peelon those and I'm like, oh, the
only thing, what's the thingthat you oily peel on those?
And I'm like, oh, the onlything, what's the thing that you
eat the peel on?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's the little ones, Our neighbor in San Diego had
some and we always got them.
Clementine Kiwi no, it's alittle tiny fruit, pomegranate.
I'm just naming fruits.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, it's not a pomegranate.
So just watch the film, that'swhat it is.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I'm just naming fruits.
No, it's not a pomegranate.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Kumquats.
That's what it is Like a littlenectarine.
Yeah, and it's a little tinykumquat and it gives you that
bitter sweet with it, becauseit's sweet inside and a little
bit bitter, but it also has avery thin skin on it, so it's
really good, much like me yeah.
Guava.
You can also eat the skin of umand kiwi, which it's fuzzy,
(05:29):
though.
So that's a little.
I don't like it I don't likethat.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's too many things.
Okay, so to make this, you'regoing to fill a highball glass
with ice, add your gin, clubsoda and tonic, garnish with
whatever citrus fruit you prefer.
Technically to make this, youwant it to be yuzu, but, as we
have discussed, those are maybenot widely available.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I bet this.
You know what kiwi needs to bea garnish in more things, I feel
like.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
They're real folly.
A party though, like they'revery.
It's a very soft fruit.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Maybe it needs to be a muddling agent then, like you
need to muddle kiwi in something, although my sister's allergic.
She'll eat it every once in awhile, but her tongue swells up
and she gets fuzzy, but not tothe point where she needs an
EpiPen.
I don't think.
Yeah, she really loves kiwi,and so sometimes she'll just do
it anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Food allergies, though sometimes you have to be
careful with this.
I did not know this, butsometimes food where the more
you expose yourself to itsometimes, the stronger the
reaction can be.
So maybe just keep an EpiPenaround.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
She avoids kiwi for the most part, but I think she
accidentally had it in like afruit salad or something and
she's like is that my tongue?
Oh God, like I would have been.
Like let's call an ambulance,right now.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Do you know what's worse than a swollen tongue?
The ads we're going to talkabout after the break.
I'm already annoyed, I got tobe honest.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Like.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm already mad at these.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, what wasn't annoying was that super smooth
transition.
Thank you so much On the firstpart.
I love it All right, so let'sdive into this.
This one was titled Live forNow, featured Kendall Jenner and
Pepsi.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Was this a Super Bowl ad?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It might have been.
I can't remember.
It might have been.
It was a pretty big.
Whatever it was on, yeah, andI'm pretty sure we're going to
take a moment so Zach can stickthis in here and then we will
talk about it.
So it'll be on the videoversion on YouTube, for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Or show notes if you want to watch, but if you don't
know what this is, just maybewouldn't.
Okay, just don't watch it.
It's going to make you mad.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
All right, so he should have been able to insert
it there.
We paused for a little bit.
Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad from2017, joins a protest.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
First of all, the premise is completely bananas.
No, it's not George Floyd thatwas 2020.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, oh, this is pre 2020.
No, oh, this is pre that.
Yeah, what were we protestingin 2017?
I don't even remember.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I mean like all of the other.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Okay, yeah, there's plenty going on, so anyway,
protest, she joins it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
She would never join a picket line.
That's number one.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
She would cross a picket line, I think I don't
know, oh, 100%.
Although.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
But just like.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Their show's non-union, I'm sure.
It's reality, like they don'twant to pay.
It's reality, so anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
That was actually why reality TV got big.
Here's a little tangent for you, the writer's strike.
Like the 2012 writer's strike.
Wasn't it no strike, wasn't itno?
20, no, no, no.
It was before that.
It was like 2009 or 2010,because it was like the season
of friday night lights, wherelandry kills a guy because they
had to hire all like non-unionwriters and everyone just like
(09:35):
forgets that that happens.
It was like the second or thirdseason of friday night lights,
but that's like the mostprescient.
But that's why reality tv gotbig, because they they didn't
want to hire writers and then100.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Now here we are.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Anyway was doing it before that with the real world,
but um anyway so all of that tosay, like it's tone, tone deaf,
which we mentioned um, it'scompletely unrealistic,
unrealistic Like one mediocresoda isn't going to cure what
(10:09):
ails us?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And I think that the idea that if you just share a
Pepsi with the cop who's at yourprotest, everything will be
fine and the world will be ahappy place is just the like.
It cannot get more tone-deafthan that I don't think I mean
they also, some of the protestimagery appeared to be lifted
(10:32):
from actual protests or mimickedit very closely, which really
just made people think badthings and I get that we want to
idealize things.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I get that we want to be positive things.
I get that we want to bepositive, but at that time, like
there was so much rawfrustration in a lot of
different circles thattrivializing or simplifying and
just like removing all of thenuance from those conversations
(11:10):
was hurtful for a lot of people.
And also just again sounrealistic.
And how much money did theyhave to pay her to make this
terrible ad?
A lot of it, millions ofdollars.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh yeah, so the other thing.
So I have a whole other reasonwhy it's bad, because it is
trying to bring back the spiritof the Coke.
I'd like to teach the world tosing ad from 1971.
Wonderful year, lots ofwonderful people born in 1971.
Because in that whole ideathere was, you know, with
(11:48):
everything going on, I think,like Vietnam was still going on
at that point, right.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Was just basically like you could have a little
break.
Just share a Coke with a friendand the world will be happier,
which is a lot different thanwhere we were politically and
socially in 2017.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, give the cop a Pepsi and he might not murder
your friend.
Is that what we're going?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yep, and it was also the Coke thing was actually
supposed to be a global thing ona hilltop in Italy.
The hilltop was the name of thecommercial Young people from
all over the world to bring thatmessage to them.
So anyway, I just feel like itwas a ripoff of what was
honestly one of my favorite ads.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's all been done, yeah and I have the little 45
from.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I have the Coca-Cola one and the, the one from the
band the the real seekers or theseekers, or something like that
, I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I don't know.
I wasn't born in 1971.
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, in 1971.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Anyway, yeah, my aunt's bought that for me, so if
I get a record player, I'llhave it, I think that the real
lesson from this ad is somethingwe talked about last week.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Does your brand belong here?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
No, probably not no.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I mean Dasani handing out water to protesters.
I think if you're doing that onthe streets at an actual
protest and happens to be likepicked up by media, that's fine.
Making an ad about it, no,doesn't seem right.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, well, and I think it's.
Yeah.
It's again like brands tryingto capitalize on, like social
movements to sell product, whichis not ideal anyway I think I
have mentioned this before butlike capitalism is not going to
save us from the socioeconomiccrises within which we are
(13:48):
trapped.
I was like what is?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
touching my leg, but it's just OK.
So, Caitlin, the next one getsto one of your favorite topics
the patriarchy Trapped.
Yeah, I was like what istouching my leg, but it's just
Okay.
So, Caitlin, the next one getsto one of your favorite topics
the patriarchy.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I just I'm going to.
I might hurt someone.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I will share this one because it's so awful.
So this is Burger King UK in2021 on International Women's
Day.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So we're going to celebrate women right.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
We're going to celebrate women and they tweeted
women belong in the kitchen.
I get the intent.
The intent is women should befemale chefs.
They were putting outscholarships for female chefs,
All of that.
You do not make that statementby saying women belong in the
(14:38):
kitchen um, but yeah, it did nothelp their cause at all.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's like um.
The flip side of this one forme is it was one of my my
favorite super bowl ads wasnike's you can't win Like that's
how you do.
An idiom that's how you do aeuphemism or like a turn of
phrase.
It's like you can't win, so youmight as well just do what
you're going to do.
Anyway, that's cool andbeautiful.
(15:05):
Women belong in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, also Nike's.
You Can't Win is a whole thingand they explain it and you can
see it.
It's visual like you can't winis a whole thing and they
explain it and you can see it.
It's visual like all that.
You can't just tweet it out.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So is that I didn't feel like my watch could handle
the blood pressure increase.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh, did you take it off?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I didn't, no, I didn't read this one, so they
just like, legitimately tweetedit out with no additional
context.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, they were meant to put context behind it about
their campaign promoting theirscholarships for female chefs,
but they didn't.
Nobody cared.
By the time the tweet went outwomen belong in the kitchen it
was dead and over with.
No one was paying attention tothe scholarships for female
chefs and Sometimes when you'retrying to be clever, you can
(15:59):
really screw your message.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, and here's where my real frustration lies
is like, how many chefs isBurger King hiring?
How many of them are women?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I mean, are you really a chef at Burger King?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
But I'm sure they have like culinary professionals
in there like R&D, right.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're right, you knowwhat I mean.
They do yeah because they do.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Mcdonald's and Burger King do have people, You're
right.
I mean Wells Blue Bunny haspeople who do like flavor
testing.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So like how many of the you know?
Like, if you're gonna tweet outinane shit like that, what are
you doing actually?
What are your actual practices?
I think and that's kind of thepoint of the first one too is
like what are your practicesLike if you're trying to put out
this like equality and peaceand love message, like what are
(16:54):
you actually doing in yourbusiness to back that up?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Because that's like that's the real rub of a lot of
these is like the authenticityis missing, right, and like
people can see through that yeah, and I think that you know you
could do something like womenbelong in the kitchen and the
boardroom and the executivelobby or whatever like you could
.
You could tack on to it, youcan have it all you just can't
(17:18):
sleep or eat a balanced meal, Imean they didn't say that they
should be barefoot and pregnantwhile they're in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
The bar is not high.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
No, and I did look it up because I know you don't
want to and it was Burger KingUK.
But yes, it just says womenbelong in the kitchen period.
End of tweet.
The whole tweet.
Nothing but that tweet.
Nothing but that tweet.
And somebody, becca Beckeri,who we don't know said please
don't use sexism as clickbait.
They did delete the tweeteventually but, as evidenced by
(17:57):
the fact that USA Today has apicture of it in their story, it
is All right, so that's so bad?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I mean so we're going to move on from sexism.
I don't want to get into racism.
More Good.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Which is also bad, even if it's inadvertent.
It's one of those where, ifyou're going to use people of
color, gay people- women,whoever.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
When you use yeah, when you use them yeah because
you should um, well, that wasvery loud.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Um have somebody, you know, maybe from that group
review the ad, give you adifferent perspective.
Um, this is where diversity isa very good thing it's always a
good thing but this is reallywhere it can help you out and
not hurt you.
Yeah, because you can look atan ad and be like oh, they had
nobody.
Like there was a bunch of whitemen who looked at that ad and
(18:47):
that was it.
Or white.
Like it's just, it doesn't makesense.
So this one is the Dove's RealBeauty Facebook ad in 2017.
The Real Beauty campaign waslauded.
It has tons of awards and wasreally good.
They've had a couple ofmissteps with it.
This was the biggest one yeah umessentially yeah a black woman
(19:09):
peeled off her shirt, which washer shirt and her face and
everything, and she was a whitewoman underneath underneath.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
It was like show.
The intention that they missedon completely was to show that,
like, this product works foreverybody.
But, why not then start withthe white woman and like, if
you're going to do it, itshouldn't be like removing or
(19:39):
what was the Michaelson videowhere everybody shakes their
head and becomes a differentperson, like male, female?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
oh, different races, black or white maybe, yeah, like
that tactic where you've gotthat volume can work this it's
not, it it's not a couple ofother missteps.
I think you found one from 2011.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
That was a print ad where they had a before and
after, and the dark people wereon the floor.
Just just look at it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, and I think the other thing here, because I've
done a ton of ads and we've hadlike diversity, quotients and
ads just to make sure we'rerepresenting like the customer
base and the society, which is avery good thing.
Like, you do want to representyour customer base, but one of
the things that we taught a verylarge retailer is you don't
have to have everyone in one ad,like, especially if you're
(20:41):
using spokespeople, which wewere, we're like, okay, so we've
got this old white guy who's aspokesperson, but it's him and
his family and they're all whitemen and they're in racing.
However, we can certainlyfeature a female in this other
ad, maybe a female of color, andyour portfolio can represent
(21:02):
who you are.
Every ad doesn't have to have ablack person, a white person
and somebody who might behispanic, might be asian, might
be white we're not sure, becausethat's a mystery?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
yes, well, well.
And and doesn't it also speakto like your placements and your
target audiences, right, likeif you're, if you're dove in
this instance, think about whereyou're placing things, and I
realized that that placement hasgotten more targeted as since
20, like 2017, it wasn't as goodas it is today, yeah yeah, but
(21:35):
put a black woman in an essencead and put a know black woman
and a white woman in glamour orwhatever those like print
placements are going to be.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Well, they have just buy two print placements and
have one that has a white womanwho is all cracked, taking it
off and showing that she'ssmooth now, which is part of
doves like body washes.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
They make your skin smooth yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And then I have another ad that shows a black
woman doing it Like it feelslike some of these aren't hard.
But I know we're like seeingthese in hindsight, like we're
sort of, you know, mondaymorning quarterbacking, as the
saying goes.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Monday morning, that's correct.
Good sports, yay.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I know, thank you, but can it also be like isn't
there monday night football andthursday night football and
saturday football?
So can it be wednesday friday,like?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
anyway, um, I do feel like, had we been in the room
when these came up, we wouldhave been like, oh, oh, no, like
no, I that's yeah, and to todoves, I don't know.
Credit, not credit necessarily,but that time period like 2011,
2017, even in the 2020s, right,like things have changed so
(22:52):
quickly in advertising and likewhat maybe used to be okay.
people are more sensitive to oraware of now, and so I think
that's the broader conversationis like does this work?
Do we need to have other eyeson it?
Like, if we get really in theweeds on this, who's losing out?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So the answer is you always need other eyes on it.
You just do.
It's interesting because I wasreading about I don't know how I
came across this, but MaryTyler Moore when she was
launching the Mary Tyler Mooreshow at CBS.
She and her husband had MTMproductions and she wrote the
whole thing and, like the pilot,had it ready to go.
And when she took it to CBS theywere like, ooh, like, could she
(23:37):
be married?
And we see the husbandoccasionally and she's like, no,
like could she be married?
And we see the husbandoccasionally and she's like no,
it's a single woman.
I want the focus to be on hercareer and her friendships and
her life.
I don't want it to be on herfamily or her husband.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
She's not like second to anybody.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And they're like, okay, okay, okay, so hear us out
.
Could she be divorced,america's?
Comfortable with divorcedpeople and she said, no, she's a
career woman she's like 28 or20.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I mean, like in the show, she's young too.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And they were like, okay, how about a boyfriend that
we see like every four episodes?
And she's like no.
And so CBS was like we reallyneed this.
And they walked away becauseshe said, if I can't produce
this the way I want to produceit, it's not worth making.
And CBS did come back to themand they wanted like network
(24:26):
sign off on every script.
They wanted them to take scriptnotes, and so what I was
reading is like they agreed toit and said, sure, you can give
us notes, and then summarilyignored all the notes.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And there was- your feedback has been received,
correct.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Thank you and I have filed it where it appropriately
goes.
But there was one episode thatwas.
I can't remember the name ofthe episode or what it was about
, but it was particularly like.
They're like oh, cbs was likeAmerica cannot do this, you need
to change these five things.
And she's like no, she's likeif you don't want to air it,
then we're done.
Like you've broken our contractand we're done.
And so they aired it.
(24:58):
Huge ratings hit.
America loved it.
She's like this is because theytold her America's not ready
for a powerful single woman.
And she's like well, americabetter get ready because we're
making the show.
And I'm like where I want ahundred.
Mary Tyler Moore's Like I justwant to high five her.
I think she's dead, though,right.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, she's dead.
Yeah, she's dead.
May she rest in peace.
Now I'm just going to go backto work.
After you riled me up, I don'thave a march for you to go to
right now.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
There's not a.
I don't want to march.
I'm so tired, I know I'm sotired.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Can we make it like a parade, where I ride in a
convertible and shake my fist?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
at people instead of waving?
Or could we just change thingssystemically so we could all go
home and take a nap?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Oh, I would love to take a nap, I might do that
except I think I have a meetingwith you after this, so I can't
take a nap.
All right, so don't be stupid.
Get other people to look atyour stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Ask somebody's opinion who thinks differently
than you.
Please, yes, to look at yourstuff.
Ask somebody's opinion whothinks differently than you,
please yes.
All right, yeah, diversity ofthought is just as important.
How's that?
What's our, what's our upcomingepisode?
What are we talking about next?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Okay, wait, wait, wait, I got it.
I know it's not in the notes,but Zach told us earlier we're
going to do one aboutKickstarter.
How do you market yourKickstarter?
Allegedly one guest, maybe twoguests, who knows?
So that'll be interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Does Zach even know?
Nobody knows.
Nobody knows how many guests.
He knows at least one guest.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
He must be trying to confirm the second one.
But all right, bring us out,bring us home.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Sorry, I just need one more deep breath because I'm
still annoyed.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Okay, everybody take a deep breath.
This was a heavy episode and solike you just want to slap
people when you see these things.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Did you know the heavy?
I mean, I know you know theheavy sigh is good for your
nervous system.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Do I sigh?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
sometimes oh my God, everyone else just like a good
heavy sigh.
It can also be like a lionbreath.
I tried to teach my daughterthe lion breath and she was like
I don't like that, it's a yogathing.
Anyway, you can find our agencyat antidote, underscore 71.
If you have a question you'dlike to send our way, you can
visit ctapodcastlive to shoot usan email.
Better yet, leave us a voicemessage on our hotline at 4 0, 2
(27:21):
, 7, 1, 8, 9, 9 7, 1.
Your question will make it intoa future episode and you could
own one of our very cute littlecoffee table books.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And I did test that and it did work.
So it does go to the rightplace.
It goes straight to voicemail.
No one will talk to you, canjust leave a message.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Leave a message, nobody has to talk.
Yeah, we'll talk to you.
You can just leave a message.
Leave a message, nobody has totalk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'd love tohear from you.
We'll see you next week.
We'll see you next time.
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