October 23, 2025 • 25 mins
Caramel Apple Martini
This martini combines fresh apple cider, caramel sauce, vodka, and butterscotch schnapps so you get the crispness of fall apples with a buttery caramel twist. It’s fun, a little indulgent, and gives you something memorable to sip while you dig into this week's episode
Ingredients:
•Caramel sauce (for rimming the glasses)
•Ice (for shaking)
•4 oz apple cider
•3 oz vodka
•2 oz butterscotch schnapps
•Sliced apple, for garnish
Directions:
•Chill two martini glasses in the freezer for about 15 minutes.
•Dip the rims of the glasses in caramel sauce to coat.
•Fill a cocktail shaker halfway with ice. Add apple cider, vodka, and butterscotch schnapps.
•Shake vigorously for about 30 seconds.
•Strain into the prepared martini glasses. Garnish with apple slices if desired.
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Host: Rich Mackey
Producer: Zac Hazen
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
68% of marketers say the funnel no longer reflects
how buyers actually move throughtheir journey.
And today we're going to discussis the marketing funnel dead?
Good to see you, Rich.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Yeah, good to see you too.
I think that like, yeah, is ithas it hit a breaking point?
Have we blown up the funnel?
Um, if we have, then what's inplace of it?
And if we haven't, then youknow, why not?
Like, why is it still relevant?
Why is it still valid?
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
And how has it evolved to like what's changed
if it is dead?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Yeah, I mean, because people change, right?
That's the biggest issue is whenyou have a system that you use
to market to people or to reachpeople or your sales process,
people change.
Um, you know, that's why wedon't have door-to-door salesmen
bringing us vacuums anymore.
Because it doesn't work.
Um still trying it with otherstuff like gutter cleaning and
window replacement.
I'm like, whatever.
Like, no, go away.
(00:55):
Leave me alone.
All right.
So we're gonna tackle thatquestion.
Uh, is it dead?
Um, and why and why not?
But before that, I think we'vegot another fall drink.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yeah, this is this one's fun.
It's a caramel apple martini.
Uh, it was created by thepioneer woman.
So I'm definitely outsourcingrecipes from different places.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
You're still Food Network, though.
Like you're still on the FoodNetwork kick.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
I honestly I like how they have multiple servings
for these because I feel like alot of uh a lot of the cocktails
I looked at before were likesingle servings.
Yep.
So this one serves too.
Uh it combines fresh applecider, caramel sauce, vodka, and
butterscotch schnapps.
So it's got that buttery caramelflavor.
And I don't know about you, butI love caramel apple flavored
(01:42):
stuff.
It's like that nice, like verysweet, smooth caramel flavor
with that nice little like popfrom the apple.
Uh, I just I just like the ideaof this one a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
So yeah, I think it throws back to kids, right?
Because we had caramel appleslike and lost teeth in our
caramel apples when we were likelosing teeth back in the day.
Um yeah, I mean, so my guess isif this makes two servings that
Ree was probably either makingit for one of her daughters who
was in town, or more likely shewas making it for her good
friend Hyacinth.
So if you do watch The PioneerWoman, um she and Hyacinth have
(02:16):
some cocktail afternoonssometimes while the men are out
like herding cattle and stuff.
All right, so you're gonna needsome caramel sauce uh for
rimming the glasses.
Um, I would get a really goodcaramel.
I wouldn't go for like a superfake one.
Um, there's some really niceones out there.
You could probably find some atyour farmer's market too this
time of year, I'm sure.
Um you're gonna need ice for theshaker, uh, four ounces of apple
(02:39):
cider.
Uh very important apple cider isnot the same as apple cider
vinegar.
Those are very different things.
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
If you put apple cider vinegar in this, you'd it
would be that'd be quite thesurprise.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
You're gonna ruin that smooth sweetness.
Uh but apple cider, so justapple cider.
You can get it in little canstoo, which I like.
What I like about this is youcan actually get smaller like
servings of this.
So you don't have to have a bigjug of apple cider sitting in
your fridge.
Or you can, whatever.
Three ounces of vodka, twoounces of butter scopterscotch
schnapps.
That's a hard one to say.
(03:12):
Um and then slice an apple forgarnish.
And if you don't have an appleslicer, go on Amazon or wherever
you go and buy one becausethey're really handy.
Just hoop and you've sliced yourapples.
Um, all right, so you're gonnachill your martini glasses in
the freezer for about 15minutes.
It just keeps them nice andcold.
Um, that way you don't have toput the ice and water in them to
cool them down.
Uh dip those rims of the glassesin the caram sauce to coat, and
(03:32):
then fill a cocktail shakerhalfway up with ice, add the
apple cider, the vodka, thebutter shops, butterscotch
schnapps.
Wow, that's hard to say.
It's hard to say in the morning.
I know.
Yeah, you're doing this to me.
You're killing me at 9 a.m.
today.
Um shake that vigorously forabout 30 seconds and then strain
it into your prepared martiniglasses and garnish with apple
slices if desired.
(03:54):
So I'm thinking, you know, afteryou put the caramel on the edge
of the glass, like you couldlike what's a like dryish powder
something you could put on thatthat would be really good.
Oh, that's a good question.
Like cinnamon, maybe?
Have a caramel cinnamon.
I guess that might beoverwhelming.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
Well, actually, nutmeg would be way
overwhelming.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Yeah, nutmeg might be good to give it a little bit
of a balance.
I don't know.
Um, so yeah, so that's good.
Um, and then you just drinkthem.
Uh, you got your oh, this istwo, so uh because I was gonna
be like, you know, find a fineshare them with.
You know, five ounces of liquor,four ounces of apple cider, but
yeah, so you're getting abouthalf of this.
So it's a really goodproportion.
(04:31):
Um, and this is one that you canabsolutely um increase if you
wanted to.
Um, and I think um you couldeven do this stirred in a I
don't think you'd have to shakethis, you could do it stirred in
a pitcher if you wanted to makea bunch for a party or
something.
Um, but yeah, I like this one.
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Yeah, that's a fun one.
Uh when I was when you weresaying cromel apples as a kid, I
was also thinking of like thecromel apple suckers that also
break your teeth.
Oh 90% caramel and then like alittle bit of like that green
apple flavor.
Yeah, maybe you could crushthose and put them on the rim,
but I don't think they crushvery easily.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
So, yeah, some sort of a green apple crush on the
rim would be interesting.
Like green apple jolly ranchers,you can crush those, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Now you're talking.
That sounds like that soundspretty good, honestly.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Yeah, I think we've spun this uh around.
So uh thank you, read Rummond inOklahoma for this one, The
Pioneer Woman, um, who I used towatch all the time.
We don't have Food Networkanymore.
We don't actually have like wegot rid of Sling because we were
just watching like three thingson there, and we're like, we can
just get them the next day onuh, you know, Peacock or
wherever.
Um and so I don't watch it.
(05:37):
That used to be one of ourSundays, is we would just watch
all the food shows, we'd see therecipes, we'd print them out,
and then go grocery shopping andeat that stuff that week.
That sounds fun.
All right.
So we can get into the funnel,uh, bum bum bum when we come
back.
(05:58):
All right, we're back to talkabout the marketing funnel.
Um, so one thing that'simportant, I think, before we
get into these stat stack is themarketing funnel is a linear
path, right?
So you've got to be aware ofsomething, you've got to have a
consideration set, you've got tomake your decision, and then
you've got to make yourpurchase.
Like you've got to kind of gothrough this linear path about
(06:19):
like I'm aware that I need uh,well, one, I have a problem that
I need a new dishwasher,whatever.
That I'm aware of these fivebrands of dishwashers.
And so I then go research thosebrands, and then I choose one
and then I buy it.
So it's very like, you're comingstraight down through.
Um, and statistically, onlyabout a quarter of people in B2B
(06:42):
follow a linear path fromawareness to purchase.
And I would even argue that theB2C people are probably less
than that because there's justso many more ways to be aware
and figure things out.
So um So what do you do aboutit?
What does HubSpot say we doabout it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
They say, well, they HubSpot doesn't recommend a
funnel, they recommend aflywheel, which we talk about
later in the episode.
But also, I think something thathas changed with the funnel
itself, right?
So marketers who adopt aflywheel or ecosystem-based
model see a 32% increase incustom retention, customer
(07:21):
retention and advocacy.
So that's kind of what I wasspeaking on, but also like, oh
go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
And I was just gonna say, like, so um it's it's that
idea of looking at the wholeprocess, right?
Because the funnel also stops atpurchase, and then you've got to
do something else to managethose people.
And I think it's also importantto give a little background on
what flywheels are.
So flywheels are actually amechanical tool in physics that
you can use for all kinds ofthings.
(07:49):
And the idea is that once youlike it's hard to start it
spinning from nothing, but ituses inertia, you know.
Uh, was it Einstein?
An object in motion continues tostay in motion and that's acted
upon by an external force.
And so once you've got it going,it's easier to keep it going
because it's already moving.
So you can spin it a little bit,you can spin it faster with less
(08:12):
effort.
Um, so that's where this sort ofmetaphor comes from.
I mean, you can think of it aslike a merry-go-round, right?
You got 10 kids, uh, yourfriends on a merry-go-round when
you were a kid.
Getting that initial spin goingwas hard.
But once you got it going, youcould use one hand and just keep
it moving because it was alreadyspinning.
And then you also get theinertia like throwing kids off,
(08:34):
which is always fun.
Um, I'm talking about as a kid,like not as an adult.
I don't go throw kids offdirectly roads.
That's that'd be weird.
Um, but that's what aflightwheel is.
And so it was used to like youknow, produce things and
manufacturing and all kinds ofways, just get it going, and
then you use less energy to keepit going.
That's um that's it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
For those that don't know, too, like the original
funnel is awareness,consideration, and then
decision.
And that's how they say buyersmove through to make like
purchasing decisions.
And um our first point coverswhy buyer behavior has outgrown
grown the funnel a little bit,right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
So because we don't do it in a linear fashion
anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
Yeah, it's not as rigid, right?
Modern buyer journalities arenon-linear, and I think a lot of
people jump in and jump out atdifferent stages, and that's
honestly because a lot of peopleare doing their own research.
It's kind of what I said in ouruh B2B trends episode where
buyers have a list of companiesor like, you know, like agencies
(09:41):
that they want to work with.
And if you don't make that list,you're you're not in it.
Like you're already out of thebattle.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
And we have more tools, right?
Like it used to be you had to dotons of TV advertising, radio
advertising, whatever, to haveyour brand in people's minds.
But I can go right now to Googleor I could go to Chat GPT and I
could ask for the five bestanything, and it's gonna give me
a list.
And I can choose to just takethat list, and that's my list
(10:09):
now.
So I haven't bothered, like, nomarketer has influenced me.
Now you could say SEO and theirwebsite and other things.
Um, but I I did my sort ofawareness and consideration
stage all at once in like threeminutes, and no one had an
opportunity to inject into that,they would have had to like sort
of pre-built their content forwhat I want.
(10:31):
Um, and I think you're right.
I think that, you know,sometimes like there are times
when I just jump straight todecision stage, right?
Saying like, you know,somebody's like, um, hey, like
this is, you know, a reallygreat product.
And I'm like, oh, I could usethat.
Um, my little I got a uh chickenshredder thing.
If you've seen those, like it'sgot spikes on the bottom and
(10:52):
spikes on the top, and you justmove it, and it's super fast and
I love it.
But literally, my friend Kellysent me a link and just said,
This is the one you should buy.
It's the one I use, it's great.
And I just clicked the link andbought it.
And that was like, didn't know Ihad a problem shredding chicken
or there was a better way to doit, but boom, I jumped straight
to purchase.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
I honestly I'm the same way.
Like, if a friend recommends mesomething, I'm like really
highly likely to buy it.
But also, like, I'll go on likeReddit and like see like
different products that havebeen reviewed or different
services.
Like, what is the best likegaming mouse I can get, right?
For example, and then I'll lookat Reddit and see what people
say and like what's overpricedand what's not.
(11:32):
Also, like social media, likewhen people like review products
like through video and stuff,that's always like really good
and easy.
And so it's not just brandingcampaigns anymore, right?
It's those other ways that arebeing where trust is being
built.
And I think the rigid originalfunnel doesn't really fit that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
No, because you used to just have to build awareness,
like just have your awarenesscampaign.
That was your hardest thing toovercome.
And then if you had a goodproduct, your product could
compete and take over fromthere.
Um, and now it's like it'sflipped and it's so different
because you know, we're justaware of more things.
We have data and informationcoming at us all over the place
(12:12):
all the time.
And so we have this broaderawareness of all kinds of things
out there.
And then, you know, like wesaid, friends recommend you.
Um, you get stuff fromcommunities like Reddit, like he
said.
Excuse me.
I have a Discord community forone of the podcasts I listen to,
and there's four or fivechannels on different
recommendations in differentareas.
Um, so yeah, so so is the funnelcompletely broken and useless,
(12:36):
and do we need to throw it away?
Or does it have still havevalue?
What do you think, Zach?
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
It's not useless, it's just incomplete, right?
So it still works in someindustries because it gives
teams structure and like ashared language.
And I think it's a good basisfor uh at its core, it's a good
basis and starting point forwhat you want to do, right?
Because I think a lot ofindustries have different buyer
journeys and different buyerbehaviors, right?
So you need to have somethingthat's flexible, which we cover
(13:04):
in like the next section.
But I think flexibility is moreimportant than having a rigid
guideline.
I think if you don't haveanything, it's a good starting
point.
But you need to adapt it to howyour customers are like moving
through that funnel and howthey're making purchasing
decisions.
So if they're spending more timeon awareness and jump straight
to decision or something likethat, you gotta adapt to that
(13:26):
and build content around thatand build campaigns around that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
So I mean, there's also new stuff like disruptive
advertising, right?
So there are new brands or newofferings or new ideas coming
out that are designed to disruptthe funnel and the traditional
way things are done.
So brand new service can comeout, and with digital ads, they
can get awareness and like superfast.
(13:52):
Like they can get in front of aton of the right people and
micro-target them really, reallyfast.
And people could shortcut thatpurchase, just like you said.
Um, and so they didn't have tospend, you know, a year and a
half building an awarenesscampaign and building their
brand.
Um, a lot of those, we do stillrecommend building a brand, of
course, but that brand is moreintrinsic in the product and the
(14:14):
offering, and you do it as yougo.
It's kind of like brand buildingand sales encouragement all in
one.
Um and again, I think gettingback to that, you know, the
brand is more than your tagline,your logo, it's your experience.
That's also kind of violates thefunnel a little bit.
If the brand is your experience,that whole awareness piece was
(14:37):
really just about being this iswho we are, this is who we are,
this is who we are.
And now it's about this is whowe are, this is what we stand
for, and this is why it mattersto you.
Um, brand is just deeper.
So I think that advocacy pieceis a big one as well.
It doesn't help to just know,like Whirlpool makes washing
machines.
It's, you know, are they highefficiency?
(14:57):
How do they care about theenvironment?
Like, especially as we get uhmore young people like making
those bigger decisions, purchasedecisions, household decisions
if you're B2C, but also thosebusiness decisions, right?
Like, you know, millennials arein their what 30s and 40s and
like in positions where they'remaking decisions for businesses
(15:20):
and really jumping into that.
So it's you know, it sounds likedoom and gloom, like, oh god,
you know, we're terriblyscrewed, but it's not all bad.
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
I think the biggest reason people say the funnel is
dead is because they treat itlike a one size fits all, right?
They think that a lot of peoplelike try and like fit their
company into like those rigidguidelines guidelines, and it's
like putting a square through acircle peg, right?
Like it's not gonna if itdoesn't fit and it doesn't work,
(15:50):
you need to adapt it.
None nothing that we can do inmarketing, I would say, is just
one size fits all, right?
Like there's always like there'salways ways that you need to
adapt strategies to work foryou.
People try and make theseplaybooks and these things that
will revolutionize yourmarketing, but if you're not
adapting it to what yourstrategies are and what your
(16:13):
buyer behavior is, then it's notprobably not gonna work.
You can't just you can't justmake something work because it
sounds like a good idea.
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
And I think um one of the other things that happens
here in the one size fits allis, and I know we're not getting
into this today, we'll probablydo an episode at some point on
it, but the whole new loopmarketing that HubSpot rolled
out at inbound, where which isum doesn't replace the funnel,
doesn't replace the flywheel,it's not that kind of a thing.
It's less about the journey andmore about the content you
(16:43):
present during the journey.
Um, and what they've done is,you know, they've really
recognized that the one sizefits all doesn't fit, that
awareness, consideration,decision are all still
important, um, even if you don'tfollow them linearly like that
as often.
But what happens is within eachof those stages, getting the
(17:04):
right message and the rightpersonalized content based on
what you know about thatcustomer, that's you know, the
infinity loop.
Um, and that's what they'vereally injected in there.
It's not just jumping from, youknow, this is who we are and
what we offer, and this is themessage we're putting out to
everybody.
It's this is the message and howit's refined for you, Zach,
because I know that you careabout, you know, time management
(17:27):
and efficiency more than youcarry about cost savings, you
know, for instance.
And so if I've got both of thosefeatures, I really want to
highlight the one that I knowmatters to you in your role.
Um, where if you're going to,you know, a CEO or a COO or
somebody, it might be more aboutefficiency as it relates to
price and you know,affordability and ROI, those
(17:50):
types of things.
So that also weighs into boththe funnel and the flywheel,
which all kind of work togetherin a weird way.
Um, which I guess means weshould really talk about the
flywheel, right?
Like, yeah, what the heck isthat?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
So HubSpot defines the flywheel as attract, engage,
delight, and it's circlingaround growth.
And uh basically you're justyou're just growing your
customers, right?
You're growing, you'refollowing, it's like you said,
you're creating momentum andit's creating this system where
you can continuously put outstuff that is growing your
customer base.
(18:27):
So that's what it's at, it'slike most simple.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
And I think the, you know, attract is sort of like
awareness.
It's a little bit different.
You're basically reaching out tostrangers who either don't know
your brand, or I think theattract piece makes it less
about being aware of that you'rethere or who you are, but being
relevant to that audience inwhat they're looking for.
So it's it's a little nuanced,but it gets more deep than just
(18:52):
awareness.
Um, that layer is a little bitharder.
And then you turn them intoprospects, right?
Like if I've attracted you andyou're interested, now I've got
to do something with you.
And so it's not, and it's notjust this one-way feeding
information, which I think isthe other thing.
The funnel is a one-waycommunication, brand to consumer
(19:13):
or B2B brand to you know,prospect, where the flywheel
acknowledges that along theentire thing, it's a two-way
conversation and communication.
Like you need to engage with me,I need to engage with you.
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
And it's more flexible too.
It allows you to have moreflexibility, which is exactly
what you should be focusing on.
Because it's like I said, uh,flexible funnels adapt to like a
lot of different things, likemulti-touch journeys, and they
integrate a lot better intocommunity and trust building.
So it's definitely something youwant to focus on.
And that would be like my mainpoint from all of this is that
(19:49):
the funnel isn't necessarilydead.
That using that rigid rule bookand having that kind of a
mindset where you're justfollowing that specific
framework is probably dead.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Yeah.
I mean, and we still talk abouttop of funnel, middle of funnel,
bottom of funnel, right?
But I think the other thing iswith the funnel, um, typically
marketing and sales teams wantto move people through as
quickly as possible, right?
Um, I mean, and it's a verticaland it narrows like it's a
funnel.
So, and as you put things into afunnel, it speeds up as it comes
out the bottom.
The thing about the flywheel isa prospect can spend as long as
(20:25):
they need to or want to andengage.
They can spend five minutes,they can spend five days, they
can spend five years.
Um, and if you're using uhmarketing automation and a good
CRM, you don't have to worryabout like forcing them out of
that stage and forcing thepurchase.
It's really just about when theyum when they're ready to move
(20:47):
forward and that signal goes up.
And then ideally, you know, youclose them and they become a
customer.
Um and then the last piece um isthat delight piece, right?
So the funnel doesn't even getit, it stops when you're a
customer.
We're done.
Now somebody else is in chargeof this, customer service is in
charge of this.
(21:07):
Um, and more and more we'reseeing integration between
marketing and customer service,sales and customer service.
Um, and the funnel goes to thatdelight stage where you want
them to have a good experiencewith your product or service.
Um and ideally, then they becomeadvocates for you and introduce
you to new strangers, which iswhy it just comes back around.
(21:30):
I'm sure you will include agraphic in the in the poster you
can pop one into the, I guessyou can pop one into the video,
right?
If you want to.
Um But that idea that you're notdone, the sale isn't the end of
your relationship with thatcustomer.
Um, even if it's a one and donepurchase, you want them to be
really happy with what theybought from you, so they'll
encourage others to do the same.
(21:51):
Um, which was kind of our pointearlier, right?
Like that awareness stagesometimes is just, hey, you
should do this.
We did it, it's great.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Um yeah, I think we covered thatpretty well, honestly.
Like I think my main takeaway,as I've said several times, is
that we need to keep things asflexible as possible.
I think uh loop marketing isvery interesting.
Um like definitely something tolook into if you haven't
(22:20):
already.
Helpspot has a playbook.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Yeah, and we'll probably make an episode for it
too.
I'm sure we will.
Um I kind of want to getsomebody who thinks loop
marketing is BS on the episode.
So we'll see if we can findthat.
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know how you say thathyper-personalized content is
not going to work better thangeneric content because it will.
Like it just it just will.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
I think there's people that are confused about
it and how it relates to thefunnel.
So like I think creating anepisode over that will be
interesting, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I think, you know, you
can look at where the flywheeland the funnel work together.
Um, you know, that's a thing,definitely.
And you can look at how lootmarketing can inject into both
of those.
Um, so there are a lot ofparallels, and it's really
about, like you said, beflexible and what works for your
business.
You might have a really rigid,solid funnel type business, and
(23:16):
that might work.
But being aware that if itstarts to not work or starts to
slow down, there are othermethods for how you go out there
and you know, starting to adaptto that before it's too late
because you don't want to getleft behind in marketing these
days.
That's kind of a nightmare.
All right.
So funnel not dead, just needsto be more flexible, is a little
(23:40):
bit too rigid.
And the flywheel is a great wayto inject some flexibility into
that.
Um, and people are still sortof, you know, this unaware need
to be brought into the fold,then they need to be engaged
with in that decision-makingprocess or that consideration
process.
You can kind of see thoseparallels.
Um, and then obviously there's apurchase in there somewhere, but
(24:01):
don't drop them at the purchase.
Like actually follow through andmake them happy and turn them
into advocates for your brand.
100%.
Sounds good.
There'll be another episode nextweek.
Who knows what it is?
Zach probably does or will soon,but uh just stay tuned for that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
Um as always, you can find our agency at an
out71.com and all of our socialsthere as well.
If you have a question you'dlike to send our way, head to
ctapodcast.
Your question will make it intoa future episode of the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
Yep, and we know the phone number's working because
we're getting like spam callsinto it.
So just we're getting a lot ofhang up.
So if you're calling and justbreathing and hanging up, just
leave a question.
Sounds great.
And I'm sure they're all justrobocalls that are like, oh, no
one's here.
All right, that's it.
See you next week.
See you next week.
68% of marketers say the funnel no longer reflects
how buyers actually move throughtheir journey.
And today we're going to discussis the marketing funnel dead?
Good to see you, Rich.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Yeah, good to see you too.
I think that like, yeah, is ithas it hit a breaking point?
Have we blown up the funnel?
Um, if we have, then what's inplace of it?
And if we haven't, then youknow, why not?
Like, why is it still relevant?
Why is it still valid?
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
And how has it evolved to like what's changed
if it is dead?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Yeah, I mean, because people change, right?
That's the biggest issue is whenyou have a system that you use
to market to people or to reachpeople or your sales process,
people change.
Um, you know, that's why wedon't have door-to-door salesmen
bringing us vacuums anymore.
Because it doesn't work.
Um still trying it with otherstuff like gutter cleaning and
window replacement.
I'm like, whatever.
Like, no, go away.
(00:55):
Leave me alone.
All right.
So we're gonna tackle thatquestion.
Uh, is it dead?
Um, and why and why not?
But before that, I think we'vegot another fall drink.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yeah, this is this one's fun.
It's a caramel apple martini.
Uh, it was created by thepioneer woman.
So I'm definitely outsourcingrecipes from different places.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
You're still Food Network, though.
Like you're still on the FoodNetwork kick.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
I honestly I like how they have multiple servings
for these because I feel like alot of uh a lot of the cocktails
I looked at before were likesingle servings.
Yep.
So this one serves too.
Uh it combines fresh applecider, caramel sauce, vodka, and
butterscotch schnapps.
So it's got that buttery caramelflavor.
And I don't know about you, butI love caramel apple flavored
(01:42):
stuff.
It's like that nice, like verysweet, smooth caramel flavor
with that nice little like popfrom the apple.
Uh, I just I just like the ideaof this one a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
So yeah, I think it throws back to kids, right?
Because we had caramel appleslike and lost teeth in our
caramel apples when we were likelosing teeth back in the day.
Um yeah, I mean, so my guess isif this makes two servings that
Ree was probably either makingit for one of her daughters who
was in town, or more likely shewas making it for her good
friend Hyacinth.
So if you do watch The PioneerWoman, um she and Hyacinth have
(02:16):
some cocktail afternoonssometimes while the men are out
like herding cattle and stuff.
All right, so you're gonna needsome caramel sauce uh for
rimming the glasses.
Um, I would get a really goodcaramel.
I wouldn't go for like a superfake one.
Um, there's some really niceones out there.
You could probably find some atyour farmer's market too this
time of year, I'm sure.
Um you're gonna need ice for theshaker, uh, four ounces of apple
(02:39):
cider.
Uh very important apple cider isnot the same as apple cider
vinegar.
Those are very different things.
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
If you put apple cider vinegar in this, you'd it
would be that'd be quite thesurprise.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
You're gonna ruin that smooth sweetness.
Uh but apple cider, so justapple cider.
You can get it in little canstoo, which I like.
What I like about this is youcan actually get smaller like
servings of this.
So you don't have to have a bigjug of apple cider sitting in
your fridge.
Or you can, whatever.
Three ounces of vodka, twoounces of butter scopterscotch
schnapps.
That's a hard one to say.
(03:12):
Um and then slice an apple forgarnish.
And if you don't have an appleslicer, go on Amazon or wherever
you go and buy one becausethey're really handy.
Just hoop and you've sliced yourapples.
Um, all right, so you're gonnachill your martini glasses in
the freezer for about 15minutes.
It just keeps them nice andcold.
Um, that way you don't have toput the ice and water in them to
cool them down.
Uh dip those rims of the glassesin the caram sauce to coat, and
(03:32):
then fill a cocktail shakerhalfway up with ice, add the
apple cider, the vodka, thebutter shops, butterscotch
schnapps.
Wow, that's hard to say.
It's hard to say in the morning.
I know.
Yeah, you're doing this to me.
You're killing me at 9 a.m.
today.
Um shake that vigorously forabout 30 seconds and then strain
it into your prepared martiniglasses and garnish with apple
slices if desired.
(03:54):
So I'm thinking, you know, afteryou put the caramel on the edge
of the glass, like you couldlike what's a like dryish powder
something you could put on thatthat would be really good.
Oh, that's a good question.
Like cinnamon, maybe?
Have a caramel cinnamon.
I guess that might beoverwhelming.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
Well, actually, nutmeg would be way
overwhelming.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Yeah, nutmeg might be good to give it a little bit
of a balance.
I don't know.
Um, so yeah, so that's good.
Um, and then you just drinkthem.
Uh, you got your oh, this istwo, so uh because I was gonna
be like, you know, find a fineshare them with.
You know, five ounces of liquor,four ounces of apple cider, but
yeah, so you're getting abouthalf of this.
So it's a really goodproportion.
(04:31):
Um, and this is one that you canabsolutely um increase if you
wanted to.
Um, and I think um you couldeven do this stirred in a I
don't think you'd have to shakethis, you could do it stirred in
a pitcher if you wanted to makea bunch for a party or
something.
Um, but yeah, I like this one.
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Yeah, that's a fun one.
Uh when I was when you weresaying cromel apples as a kid, I
was also thinking of like thecromel apple suckers that also
break your teeth.
Oh 90% caramel and then like alittle bit of like that green
apple flavor.
Yeah, maybe you could crushthose and put them on the rim,
but I don't think they crushvery easily.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
So, yeah, some sort of a green apple crush on the
rim would be interesting.
Like green apple jolly ranchers,you can crush those, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Now you're talking.
That sounds like that soundspretty good, honestly.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Yeah, I think we've spun this uh around.
So uh thank you, read Rummond inOklahoma for this one, The
Pioneer Woman, um, who I used towatch all the time.
We don't have Food Networkanymore.
We don't actually have like wegot rid of Sling because we were
just watching like three thingson there, and we're like, we can
just get them the next day onuh, you know, Peacock or
wherever.
Um and so I don't watch it.
(05:37):
That used to be one of ourSundays, is we would just watch
all the food shows, we'd see therecipes, we'd print them out,
and then go grocery shopping andeat that stuff that week.
That sounds fun.
All right.
So we can get into the funnel,uh, bum bum bum when we come
back.
(05:58):
All right, we're back to talkabout the marketing funnel.
Um, so one thing that'simportant, I think, before we
get into these stat stack is themarketing funnel is a linear
path, right?
So you've got to be aware ofsomething, you've got to have a
consideration set, you've got tomake your decision, and then
you've got to make yourpurchase.
Like you've got to kind of gothrough this linear path about
(06:19):
like I'm aware that I need uh,well, one, I have a problem that
I need a new dishwasher,whatever.
That I'm aware of these fivebrands of dishwashers.
And so I then go research thosebrands, and then I choose one
and then I buy it.
So it's very like, you're comingstraight down through.
Um, and statistically, onlyabout a quarter of people in B2B
(06:42):
follow a linear path fromawareness to purchase.
And I would even argue that theB2C people are probably less
than that because there's justso many more ways to be aware
and figure things out.
So um So what do you do aboutit?
What does HubSpot say we doabout it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
They say, well, they HubSpot doesn't recommend a
funnel, they recommend aflywheel, which we talk about
later in the episode.
But also, I think something thathas changed with the funnel
itself, right?
So marketers who adopt aflywheel or ecosystem-based
model see a 32% increase incustom retention, customer
(07:21):
retention and advocacy.
So that's kind of what I wasspeaking on, but also like, oh
go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
And I was just gonna say, like, so um it's it's that
idea of looking at the wholeprocess, right?
Because the funnel also stops atpurchase, and then you've got to
do something else to managethose people.
And I think it's also importantto give a little background on
what flywheels are.
So flywheels are actually amechanical tool in physics that
you can use for all kinds ofthings.
(07:49):
And the idea is that once youlike it's hard to start it
spinning from nothing, but ituses inertia, you know.
Uh, was it Einstein?
An object in motion continues tostay in motion and that's acted
upon by an external force.
And so once you've got it going,it's easier to keep it going
because it's already moving.
So you can spin it a little bit,you can spin it faster with less
(08:12):
effort.
Um, so that's where this sort ofmetaphor comes from.
I mean, you can think of it aslike a merry-go-round, right?
You got 10 kids, uh, yourfriends on a merry-go-round when
you were a kid.
Getting that initial spin goingwas hard.
But once you got it going, youcould use one hand and just keep
it moving because it was alreadyspinning.
And then you also get theinertia like throwing kids off,
(08:34):
which is always fun.
Um, I'm talking about as a kid,like not as an adult.
I don't go throw kids offdirectly roads.
That's that'd be weird.
Um, but that's what aflightwheel is.
And so it was used to like youknow, produce things and
manufacturing and all kinds ofways, just get it going, and
then you use less energy to keepit going.
That's um that's it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
For those that don't know, too, like the original
funnel is awareness,consideration, and then
decision.
And that's how they say buyersmove through to make like
purchasing decisions.
And um our first point coverswhy buyer behavior has outgrown
grown the funnel a little bit,right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
So because we don't do it in a linear fashion
anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
Yeah, it's not as rigid, right?
Modern buyer journalities arenon-linear, and I think a lot of
people jump in and jump out atdifferent stages, and that's
honestly because a lot of peopleare doing their own research.
It's kind of what I said in ouruh B2B trends episode where
buyers have a list of companiesor like, you know, like agencies
(09:41):
that they want to work with.
And if you don't make that list,you're you're not in it.
Like you're already out of thebattle.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
And we have more tools, right?
Like it used to be you had to dotons of TV advertising, radio
advertising, whatever, to haveyour brand in people's minds.
But I can go right now to Googleor I could go to Chat GPT and I
could ask for the five bestanything, and it's gonna give me
a list.
And I can choose to just takethat list, and that's my list
(10:09):
now.
So I haven't bothered, like, nomarketer has influenced me.
Now you could say SEO and theirwebsite and other things.
Um, but I I did my sort ofawareness and consideration
stage all at once in like threeminutes, and no one had an
opportunity to inject into that,they would have had to like sort
of pre-built their content forwhat I want.
(10:31):
Um, and I think you're right.
I think that, you know,sometimes like there are times
when I just jump straight todecision stage, right?
Saying like, you know,somebody's like, um, hey, like
this is, you know, a reallygreat product.
And I'm like, oh, I could usethat.
Um, my little I got a uh chickenshredder thing.
If you've seen those, like it'sgot spikes on the bottom and
(10:52):
spikes on the top, and you justmove it, and it's super fast and
I love it.
But literally, my friend Kellysent me a link and just said,
This is the one you should buy.
It's the one I use, it's great.
And I just clicked the link andbought it.
And that was like, didn't know Ihad a problem shredding chicken
or there was a better way to doit, but boom, I jumped straight
to purchase.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
I honestly I'm the same way.
Like, if a friend recommends mesomething, I'm like really
highly likely to buy it.
But also, like, I'll go on likeReddit and like see like
different products that havebeen reviewed or different
services.
Like, what is the best likegaming mouse I can get, right?
For example, and then I'll lookat Reddit and see what people
say and like what's overpricedand what's not.
(11:32):
Also, like social media, likewhen people like review products
like through video and stuff,that's always like really good
and easy.
And so it's not just brandingcampaigns anymore, right?
It's those other ways that arebeing where trust is being
built.
And I think the rigid originalfunnel doesn't really fit that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
No, because you used to just have to build awareness,
like just have your awarenesscampaign.
That was your hardest thing toovercome.
And then if you had a goodproduct, your product could
compete and take over fromthere.
Um, and now it's like it'sflipped and it's so different
because you know, we're justaware of more things.
We have data and informationcoming at us all over the place
(12:12):
all the time.
And so we have this broaderawareness of all kinds of things
out there.
And then, you know, like wesaid, friends recommend you.
Um, you get stuff fromcommunities like Reddit, like he
said.
Excuse me.
I have a Discord community forone of the podcasts I listen to,
and there's four or fivechannels on different
recommendations in differentareas.
Um, so yeah, so so is the funnelcompletely broken and useless,
(12:36):
and do we need to throw it away?
Or does it have still havevalue?
What do you think, Zach?
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
It's not useless, it's just incomplete, right?
So it still works in someindustries because it gives
teams structure and like ashared language.
And I think it's a good basisfor uh at its core, it's a good
basis and starting point forwhat you want to do, right?
Because I think a lot ofindustries have different buyer
journeys and different buyerbehaviors, right?
So you need to have somethingthat's flexible, which we cover
(13:04):
in like the next section.
But I think flexibility is moreimportant than having a rigid
guideline.
I think if you don't haveanything, it's a good starting
point.
But you need to adapt it to howyour customers are like moving
through that funnel and howthey're making purchasing
decisions.
So if they're spending more timeon awareness and jump straight
to decision or something likethat, you gotta adapt to that
(13:26):
and build content around thatand build campaigns around that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
So I mean, there's also new stuff like disruptive
advertising, right?
So there are new brands or newofferings or new ideas coming
out that are designed to disruptthe funnel and the traditional
way things are done.
So brand new service can comeout, and with digital ads, they
can get awareness and like superfast.
(13:52):
Like they can get in front of aton of the right people and
micro-target them really, reallyfast.
And people could shortcut thatpurchase, just like you said.
Um, and so they didn't have tospend, you know, a year and a
half building an awarenesscampaign and building their
brand.
Um, a lot of those, we do stillrecommend building a brand, of
course, but that brand is moreintrinsic in the product and the
(14:14):
offering, and you do it as yougo.
It's kind of like brand buildingand sales encouragement all in
one.
Um and again, I think gettingback to that, you know, the
brand is more than your tagline,your logo, it's your experience.
That's also kind of violates thefunnel a little bit.
If the brand is your experience,that whole awareness piece was
(14:37):
really just about being this iswho we are, this is who we are,
this is who we are.
And now it's about this is whowe are, this is what we stand
for, and this is why it mattersto you.
Um, brand is just deeper.
So I think that advocacy pieceis a big one as well.
It doesn't help to just know,like Whirlpool makes washing
machines.
It's, you know, are they highefficiency?
(14:57):
How do they care about theenvironment?
Like, especially as we get uhmore young people like making
those bigger decisions, purchasedecisions, household decisions
if you're B2C, but also thosebusiness decisions, right?
Like, you know, millennials arein their what 30s and 40s and
like in positions where they'remaking decisions for businesses
(15:20):
and really jumping into that.
So it's you know, it sounds likedoom and gloom, like, oh god,
you know, we're terriblyscrewed, but it's not all bad.
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
I think the biggest reason people say the funnel is
dead is because they treat itlike a one size fits all, right?
They think that a lot of peoplelike try and like fit their
company into like those rigidguidelines guidelines, and it's
like putting a square through acircle peg, right?
Like it's not gonna if itdoesn't fit and it doesn't work,
(15:50):
you need to adapt it.
None nothing that we can do inmarketing, I would say, is just
one size fits all, right?
Like there's always like there'salways ways that you need to
adapt strategies to work foryou.
People try and make theseplaybooks and these things that
will revolutionize yourmarketing, but if you're not
adapting it to what yourstrategies are and what your
(16:13):
buyer behavior is, then it's notprobably not gonna work.
You can't just you can't justmake something work because it
sounds like a good idea.
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
And I think um one of the other things that happens
here in the one size fits allis, and I know we're not getting
into this today, we'll probablydo an episode at some point on
it, but the whole new loopmarketing that HubSpot rolled
out at inbound, where which isum doesn't replace the funnel,
doesn't replace the flywheel,it's not that kind of a thing.
It's less about the journey andmore about the content you
(16:43):
present during the journey.
Um, and what they've done is,you know, they've really
recognized that the one sizefits all doesn't fit, that
awareness, consideration,decision are all still
important, um, even if you don'tfollow them linearly like that
as often.
But what happens is within eachof those stages, getting the
(17:04):
right message and the rightpersonalized content based on
what you know about thatcustomer, that's you know, the
infinity loop.
Um, and that's what they'vereally injected in there.
It's not just jumping from, youknow, this is who we are and
what we offer, and this is themessage we're putting out to
everybody.
It's this is the message and howit's refined for you, Zach,
because I know that you careabout, you know, time management
(17:27):
and efficiency more than youcarry about cost savings, you
know, for instance.
And so if I've got both of thosefeatures, I really want to
highlight the one that I knowmatters to you in your role.
Um, where if you're going to,you know, a CEO or a COO or
somebody, it might be more aboutefficiency as it relates to
price and you know,affordability and ROI, those
(17:50):
types of things.
So that also weighs into boththe funnel and the flywheel,
which all kind of work togetherin a weird way.
Um, which I guess means weshould really talk about the
flywheel, right?
Like, yeah, what the heck isthat?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
So HubSpot defines the flywheel as attract, engage,
delight, and it's circlingaround growth.
And uh basically you're justyou're just growing your
customers, right?
You're growing, you'refollowing, it's like you said,
you're creating momentum andit's creating this system where
you can continuously put outstuff that is growing your
customer base.
(18:27):
So that's what it's at, it'slike most simple.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
And I think the, you know, attract is sort of like
awareness.
It's a little bit different.
You're basically reaching out tostrangers who either don't know
your brand, or I think theattract piece makes it less
about being aware of that you'rethere or who you are, but being
relevant to that audience inwhat they're looking for.
So it's it's a little nuanced,but it gets more deep than just
(18:52):
awareness.
Um, that layer is a little bitharder.
And then you turn them intoprospects, right?
Like if I've attracted you andyou're interested, now I've got
to do something with you.
And so it's not, and it's notjust this one-way feeding
information, which I think isthe other thing.
The funnel is a one-waycommunication, brand to consumer
(19:13):
or B2B brand to you know,prospect, where the flywheel
acknowledges that along theentire thing, it's a two-way
conversation and communication.
Like you need to engage with me,I need to engage with you.
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
And it's more flexible too.
It allows you to have moreflexibility, which is exactly
what you should be focusing on.
Because it's like I said, uh,flexible funnels adapt to like a
lot of different things, likemulti-touch journeys, and they
integrate a lot better intocommunity and trust building.
So it's definitely something youwant to focus on.
And that would be like my mainpoint from all of this is that
(19:49):
the funnel isn't necessarilydead.
That using that rigid rule bookand having that kind of a
mindset where you're justfollowing that specific
framework is probably dead.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Yeah.
I mean, and we still talk abouttop of funnel, middle of funnel,
bottom of funnel, right?
But I think the other thing iswith the funnel, um, typically
marketing and sales teams wantto move people through as
quickly as possible, right?
Um, I mean, and it's a verticaland it narrows like it's a
funnel.
So, and as you put things into afunnel, it speeds up as it comes
out the bottom.
The thing about the flywheel isa prospect can spend as long as
(20:25):
they need to or want to andengage.
They can spend five minutes,they can spend five days, they
can spend five years.
Um, and if you're using uhmarketing automation and a good
CRM, you don't have to worryabout like forcing them out of
that stage and forcing thepurchase.
It's really just about when theyum when they're ready to move
(20:47):
forward and that signal goes up.
And then ideally, you know, youclose them and they become a
customer.
Um and then the last piece um isthat delight piece, right?
So the funnel doesn't even getit, it stops when you're a
customer.
We're done.
Now somebody else is in chargeof this, customer service is in
charge of this.
(21:07):
Um, and more and more we'reseeing integration between
marketing and customer service,sales and customer service.
Um, and the funnel goes to thatdelight stage where you want
them to have a good experiencewith your product or service.
Um and ideally, then they becomeadvocates for you and introduce
you to new strangers, which iswhy it just comes back around.
(21:30):
I'm sure you will include agraphic in the in the poster you
can pop one into the, I guessyou can pop one into the video,
right?
If you want to.
Um But that idea that you're notdone, the sale isn't the end of
your relationship with thatcustomer.
Um, even if it's a one and donepurchase, you want them to be
really happy with what theybought from you, so they'll
encourage others to do the same.
(21:51):
Um, which was kind of our pointearlier, right?
Like that awareness stagesometimes is just, hey, you
should do this.
We did it, it's great.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Um yeah, I think we covered thatpretty well, honestly.
Like I think my main takeaway,as I've said several times, is
that we need to keep things asflexible as possible.
I think uh loop marketing isvery interesting.
Um like definitely something tolook into if you haven't
(22:20):
already.
Helpspot has a playbook.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Yeah, and we'll probably make an episode for it
too.
I'm sure we will.
Um I kind of want to getsomebody who thinks loop
marketing is BS on the episode.
So we'll see if we can findthat.
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know how you say thathyper-personalized content is
not going to work better thangeneric content because it will.
Like it just it just will.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
I think there's people that are confused about
it and how it relates to thefunnel.
So like I think creating anepisode over that will be
interesting, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I think, you know, you
can look at where the flywheeland the funnel work together.
Um, you know, that's a thing,definitely.
And you can look at how lootmarketing can inject into both
of those.
Um, so there are a lot ofparallels, and it's really
about, like you said, beflexible and what works for your
business.
You might have a really rigid,solid funnel type business, and
(23:16):
that might work.
But being aware that if itstarts to not work or starts to
slow down, there are othermethods for how you go out there
and you know, starting to adaptto that before it's too late
because you don't want to getleft behind in marketing these
days.
That's kind of a nightmare.
All right.
So funnel not dead, just needsto be more flexible, is a little
(23:40):
bit too rigid.
And the flywheel is a great wayto inject some flexibility into
that.
Um, and people are still sortof, you know, this unaware need
to be brought into the fold,then they need to be engaged
with in that decision-makingprocess or that consideration
process.
You can kind of see thoseparallels.
Um, and then obviously there's apurchase in there somewhere, but
(24:01):
don't drop them at the purchase.
Like actually follow through andmake them happy and turn them
into advocates for your brand.
100%.
Sounds good.
There'll be another episode nextweek.
Who knows what it is?
Zach probably does or will soon,but uh just stay tuned for that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
Um as always, you can find our agency at an
out71.com and all of our socialsthere as well.
If you have a question you'dlike to send our way, head to
ctapodcast.
Your question will make it intoa future episode of the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
Yep, and we know the phone number's working because
we're getting like spam callsinto it.
So just we're getting a lot ofhang up.
So if you're calling and justbreathing and hanging up, just
leave a question.
Sounds great.
And I'm sure they're all justrobocalls that are like, oh, no
one's here.
All right, that's it.
See you next week.
See you next week.
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