December 3, 2024 • 35 mins
Career conversations with family can bring up many emotions, especially with the upcoming holiday season. Join us as we share personal stories and offer practical strategies to handle these moments with grace and confidence. From using exploratory language like "I'm still exploring" to establishing firm boundaries, we provide insights to help you communicate your career journey effectively, even when faced with uncertainty.
Confidence is key when discussing your career development with family and friends, but it's not always easy to maintain. We dive into the importance of proactively sharing your efforts and the steps you're taking toward your career goals. By understanding that unsolicited advice often reflects others' personal anxieties, you can maintain self-assurance and stay true to your path. This episode encourages reflection on why certain questions may feel uncomfortable and offers reassurance that you're not alone in facing these challenges.
For many, balancing career ambitions with cultural and familial expectations can be particularly challenging. We explore how authenticity and self-awareness play crucial roles in navigating these pressures, especially within various cultures. With the right support system, it can be more attainable to flourish in your career. Whether you're entering the job market or considering a career change, this episode underscores the importance of having a supportive network and being proactive in shaping your career path, while also navigating career conversations with family and friends.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everybody, welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour.
How is everyone?
Happy Holidays, yes, happyHolidays.
We're in between Thanksgivingand Christmas, and Hanukkah and
New Year and any other holidaysyou may be celebrating during
this time of year.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, it's such a nice cold time.
I don't know, this time isalways awkward, I think, because
you don't know really if you'rein work mode, school mode,
vacation mode.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, family mode.
There's a lot going on duringthis time of year.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah.
So, Arminé, what are we talkingabout today?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We're talking about, on the same note of holidays and
maybe spending time with familymore than usual during this
time of year.
We're talking about how to havecareer conversations around the
dinner table, around theholiday table.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
That sounds like a sticky situation to be in it
sure is it sure is we know ascounselors.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's not easy to have these conversations when you're
in a space where you're notsure yet what you're doing with
your career, what your nextsteps are going to be.
And then you see family thatyou haven't seen maybe in like a
year or in a few months, andthey're asking you how are
things going, what?
Where are you working, Are yougoing to school?
(01:27):
What's your next step?
And, like you, just gettingthese questions back to back
could be so overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I remember in college Iactually was so lucky to never
have to engage in this type ofconversation Because I was the
type of kid who knew how to plan, knew what they were doing
doing, knew what was next, and Iwas always more so like
updating everyone.
That's how I always kind oftook the holidays.
But I'm a different breed.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, yeah, you are a different breed.
But yeah, I actually feelsimilarly because I never felt
unsure about how to present mycareer goals to family.
I actually remember the yearthat it was new year and I was
(02:12):
going to graduate the nextcalendar year and I was like, oh
, I remember telling my mom oh,now, when people ask me when are
you graduating, I can say nextyear, this is for, like my
bachel's.
I was excited to kind of sharethat like timeline with people.
But I know that, though you andI may not have experienced the
(02:32):
challenge and the overwhelm ofhaving to answer questions when
you're unsure, as counselors wesee it all the time in our
students and clients, so we knowhow much of a heavy burden it
can be on folks.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, and I think career, the conversation around
career just is a veryoverwhelming and can be anxiety
inducing for a lot of peoplebecause it's a very peculiar
topic on what my interests are.
They may not resonate the samewith other people or sometimes
people may disagree or not likeit or have a different opinion
of their own, especially whenit's coming from somebody you
(03:06):
know, a family member, a lovedone, a friend, whatever that
looks like.
It can be tough to navigatethose conversations with people.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
It is because, if you , it's an important topic and
it's actually an emotional topicfor people, you know, because
career encompasses so much oflike the way we see ourselves
and what place we hold insociety, or at least that's how
people feel about careers, evenif it shouldn't be that way.
That's a whole different topicfor another day but it does like
(03:36):
encompass our whole identitiesof how we see ourselves and how
we present ourselves to theworld, and so it could really be
emotional to talk about it,especially when you're unsure
about your career goals.
So, and then it's coming frompeople who are maybe important
to you and that you really wantto impress.
There's that component.
Or it could be people that,like I don't really care about
(03:58):
my great aunt's opinion, youknow, but like she's inserting
her opinions.
So there's so many differentdynamics there.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, I, um, I love.
I love that you said thatbecause it's funny.
I, my entire life, I alwayswould think like what, what is
my brother going to say?
What is my brother going tothink?
Is he going to be proud?
And I doubt that he's listeningto this, but if he ever does
one day, I want you to know that.
I always thought about that andI still continue to think about
that.
But you're right, it's peoplewho care and love you.
(04:27):
They're inserting their opinioninto not only your career, but
it's your overall life, right?
Because our lives reallyrevolve around what we do in
them every day.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, and the meaning that we put on these
careers and jobs that we have.
It is an emotional topic.
So, mj, let's say somebody isat the dinner table and they're
having a good time with familyand all of a sudden, that
dreaded topic comes up wherethey ask okay, so what have you
(04:59):
been up to this past year?
Where are you working or whereare you studying?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Well, first, I'm going to try not to panic.
I'm going to try not to panicand I'm going to breathe, and I
think it's really analyzing whatit is that you want to say
right, and for many people, ifyou are still exploring or feel
confused or lost, that may notbe the initial reaction you want
to give right, because that maybring up a lot of emotions of
(05:23):
other people around.
But maybe you use the languageof I'm currently still exploring
or I've been up to this or I'vebeen researching this or I've
been talking to these kinds ofpeople, and I think the first
thing to do is one breathe,right, it's okay.
It's okay to not expect thesequestions and to expect them,
but also know what type ofresponses you can have that are
(05:44):
not only going to make thesituation more tense than what
it really needs to be.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, definitely I think, speaking confidently
about your career developmentprocess and really actually
emphasizing what you do know,about what you're doing, versus
what you don't.
So if, for example, maybeyou've been researching
professionals on LinkedIn to doinformational interviews with
them, or you've been heavily inthe job search process,
(06:10):
utilizing different sources tofind jobs, or maybe you're
currently updating your resumeor talking to a career counselor
, talking to your academicadvisor, if you're a student,
whatever steps you've beentaking to gain more information
or move the one step forwardtoward your career goals, you
can kind of, you know, bring theconversation around those
(06:31):
topics versus reacting in a waywhere it's like I don't know and
then inviting unwelcomed advice.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, I absolutely agree.
It's very much so taking aproactive approach on the
question itself and saying theseare the steps that I'm taking
or these are the things that I'mdoing, so this person, whoever
it is, can also see I'm not justsitting around waiting for the
answer, I'm not just stayingcurious.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, and you know, as we're talking about this, I'm
thinking maybe a listener mightthink well, why do I have to
answer to people Especially ifit's somebody that, like I see
once a year and then I don'treally need or want their
opinion Like why do I even needto answer to them?
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yikes, you're asking a people pleaser, so let's
acknowledge that.
So in my head I'm like I'm justgoing to answer them regardless
, so I don't have to shareanymore.
But if you are thinking youknow why should you answer?
I think there's also a politeand respectful way to handle the
situation too.
Right, by by nicely shuttingdown the conversations of like
oh, you know, currently giving ashorthanded response and then
saying you know, that's where Iam and I'm not really wanting to
(07:38):
talk about it any more thanthat.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's where boundaries
come into play, depending onyour personal boundaries.
And if you want to talk aboutit or want to get into more of
like the things you are doing,great, it's just more source of
information and topic ofconversation that you can have
with family.
But if you have a certain kindof relationship with certain
family members and you're notwanting to engage in these
(08:02):
conversations, yeah, there's adefinitely respectful and polite
way to like set thoseboundaries and say thank you so
much for asking I'm I would liketo talk about something else or
something along those lineswhere you're not really engaging
in conversation or giving theminformation you don't want to
share.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, and I think this is where the piece of
guidance you gave before onspeaking confidently also comes
into play, right?
Because if you're quivering, ifyou're nervous, if you're like
freaking out out of breathanswering this, there's also
there's that feeling of, oh, isthis person hiding something or
they're not telling the wholetruth?
Yeah, right.
So it's also being confident inwhere you are and remembering
that every person experiencescareer development differently,
(08:45):
and we're all at differentstages too.
So you also have to be kind andgive yourself grace with
wherever you are, because youwill be moving on to the next
step at your own pace.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, wherever you are, because you will be moving
on to the next step at your ownpace.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And you know, I would actuallyinvite folks who may be reacting
that way to career questions tothink about and reflect on why
do you want to shut down theconversation?
Like, where is that coming from?
Because oftentimes, even thoughit might not seem that way in
the moment, when people areasking questions or giving
unsolicited advice, it may becoming from a good place of like
(09:19):
they actually want to.
You know, see you succeed andsee the best for you.
They may be doing it in thewrong way or approaching it
based on their own perspectiveof career, their own
insecurities around career, soit might not be received well,
but the intention may be good.
So I would invite folks toreally reflect on why do you
(09:41):
want to shut down thoseconversations if you feel that
way?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, I agree, and I'm going to add to that a lot
of time.
These things can come as like.
In Spanish we say likeado,which means like um.
The literal term or translationis is heavy, but what it's mean
to say is like very tough, veryum, direct and assertive and a
negative connotation, so that,although this may seem, or it
(10:07):
can feel like a criticism orsomeone trying to insert their
opinion in a not positive light,remember that this person is
also coming from a good place,wherever they're standing in
their own position too, thatthey're wanting to share or
wanting to ask for, to give youguidance on whatever they think
is best too.
And I think that leaves us upto us as counselors, but also as
(10:28):
humans, to remember that thisperson is just coming from
wherever their walk of life is,and it's not not always a
reflection on you or what you'redoing in your career, in your
life, but it could also bewherever they are.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, truly.
And along with that same note,when folks maybe start giving
advice or, more so, when theystart criticizing, like why are
you doing that, that like youwon't make a lot of that, that
like you won't make a lot ofmoney or you won't find a lot,
of job with that major and thosekinds of things.
That's like coming from a reallyanxious place.
Yeah, um, I can't tell you likehow many times countless times
(11:04):
I've talked to students, clientsand even friends and just
people in my community who havesaid like I've changed my major
because of other people'sopinions, or other people are
making me feel like this majorsucks.
So the reality is like thesemessages are coming from that
person's own anxieties aroundtheir careers and their jobs.
(11:25):
So it's really hard not to letthem project onto you and not to
take on those anxieties,because it's it's we're human
beings, right Like we.
We pick up on people's energies.
So it's hard to stop that fromhappening.
But I think maybe it'simportant to recognize that if
people are reacting that wayabout a particular career choice
(11:45):
you have, it's coming fromtheir own anxieties.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, I a hundred percent agree, and I think this
is where your response, insteadof reaction, is very much so
valid here, right?
So, thinking about how do youwant to respond to this person
rather than just immediatelyreact to what they're saying?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So what are some other wayspeople can set boundaries or
some language they can use?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah.
So again, I'm not an assertiveperson or direct.
One of my strengths is harmony,so setting boundaries is really
really hard for me, but I thinkI've gotten better with
language, especially in aroundthe um.
This is my final answer.
No is my response, and how youcan translate that is, I think,
start with gratitude or givingthanks, even though it's not
solicited advice that you'reasking for, right, so saying
(12:32):
thank you or I'm grateful foryour guidance, but I'm going to
trust my own instincts forexample, thank you for sharing
your thoughts, but I'm not opento discussing this further or
even by acknowledging how you'refeeling right.
I'm starting to feeloverwhelmed or anxious by all of
this conversation or advicethat I'm getting.
I need some space to kind ofthink about this on my own.
(12:53):
Those are really powerfulstatements that really project
where you are in thisconversation and topic and give
someone pause in response to say, oh, you know, this person is
doing their own thing and Ishould give them, you know, some
time.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, because when we, you
know, stay calm in thosesituations or we, you know,
don't engage in that anxiousenergy, it'll really help to
just smooth that process and notescalate that conversation.
Right where you're focusing on,I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm
(13:33):
wanting to maybe talk about adifferent topic, as opposed to
saying you and blame.
That's like one of the basicmediation skills that we learn
as counselors.
Right when it's like, avoidblaming or using language that
makes the other person feelblamed.
So instead it's like the Istatements of I'd like to talk
(13:53):
about something else or I'mfeeling overwhelmed around this
topic, and so forth.
So, being mindful of thelanguage that you're using and
then the energy and the tone,and just trying your best not to
um engage with the person's owninsecurities and own
projections towards you yeah, ar.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
How do you feel about it being so in my head?
Like these conversations arelike in passing, like when
you're getting ready or when youare just kind of it's weird,
but like roaming around whiledinner is getting set up or
whatever that looks like on thisholidays, or just kind of you
know, kicking back just playinga game or whatever that looks
like.
But what do you feel about whenthere's a pressure of someone's
(14:35):
asking you for a sense of beingan example to others type of
way?
Oh, like you're the oldest kidin the family, so you have to
have it together or like theonly person who's like at this
level, what do you think aboutkind of those, those where
you're the only category?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Oh my gosh, I literally felt the pressure in
my shoulders right now, and so,metaphorically, you know that is
so much burden on a person'sshoulders and having to also not
only do the right thing quote,unquote in everybody's eyes but
also know how to say it in theway where whoever's listening,
(15:14):
whoever's observing is, islearning from you.
Yeah, that I can't even.
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I'm thinking a lot about like first gen students,
first gen professionals and howthis is kind of the
conversations that they have.
I'm thinking about a few peoplein particular, but I know that
this is tough when you are likethe first or you're the only
person, kind of, in this areaand it's almost like, oh, like,
let's talk about this person andwhere they are and the next big
(15:41):
thing for them, becausesometimes you are where you are
and you're not ready to thinkabout the next big thing too.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, and those conversations could also turn
into, like putting that personon a pedestal and, oh my gosh,
look at where this person is and, like everybody else, is
starting to feel some type ofway around that person.
And even though the intentionof those conversations is to,
like, help motivate everybodyelse around them, it actually
maybe that person isn't thatsure of themselves but, because
(16:10):
of all this pressure to be sure,they can't even express, like
you know, what I actually don'tknow or I'm not.
Maybe I'm reconsidering.
You know this job or this major, and they're too scared to even
share it.
Because they're there, they'vebeen made to be this person who
has it all figured out.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about both sides of the
spectrum, of someone who'sentering the job market or
someone who's currently changingtheir career, but also someone
who is the only person in theirfamily who may be in a career
yeah, yeah, mj, I know thatyou're an exemplary, exemplary
person in many areas of yourlife.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Um, how, how, how have you handled those types of
situations?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
it's hard.
Um, I want to say that it'shard and I don't mean that it's
like, oh, it's hard to beawesome and amazing and all
these different things.
But I think for myself, itcomes down to a lot of how I
view myself and how muchinternal pressure I put on
myself.
And what are the expectationsof others, my friends, my family
members, my mentors, people who, like seen me grow and they're
(17:16):
like, okay, you've been doingthis for X amount of time.
Like what are you doing next?
Like I'm still just trying tofigure it out, right?
Or when I get told like okay,like you know, you have all
these certifications and all ofthese accomplishments.
Like so, when are you going togo back to school and finish?
And when are you going to goback to school and finish?
(17:37):
And when are you going to dothis and when are you going to
do that?
Or this person's doing that.
Why is it so hard for you to goback and do this?
So, for me, I battle a lot withmy internal conversations and
how I treat internal MJ and whatthat looks like for her, and
and the way I feel and the way Isee myself in my career and my,
my overall life goals becauseit Because it's very much so
like am I wanting to do thisbecause I know it's going to
make other people or thesituation look better, or is it
(18:00):
because I really want to embarkon this new journey or adventure
or opportunity?
So I personally struggle a lotwith what does that look like
for me and how do I keepeveryone around satisfied and
happy?
But also like facing the truthof am I satisfied and happy?
What does that look like for me?
So it's, it's, it's difficultand it's I say that with a ton
(18:22):
of privilege because it's not.
It's not something that I also.
I feel like right now.
I feel like I'm complaining,but it's not something I need to
necessarily be complainingabout too no, you know,
everybody's experience is theirown and, um, it's fair and
you're.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You have every right to feel that way, and you
actually have worked really hardto be where you're at today.
So you know all that privilegecomes with hard work and a lot
of sacrifice that you've put into be where you're at.
It's not, it wasn't handed toyou.
So you're also entitled to feelproud of some of those
accomplishments too.
But, with that being said, haveyou ever had to have a
(18:59):
conversation or say out loudlike, uh, that you're unsure
about some like a career goal oran opportunity that's upcoming?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, um, I'll tell you this, and I don't remember
if I've shared this before, buttwo weeks before I started, or a
week before I started mymaster's program, I and this was
, I guess, in my head now likevery early on before I
officially became a counselorand started working I, um, I
wasn't sure that was something Iwas ready to do, okay, and I
(19:31):
panicked, and I panicked and Iremember crying, I remember a
lot of crying and I was scared.
That was the emotion I wasfeeling, was scared, but it was
stemming from feeling like I'mnot good enough and although I
in school, you know 4.0, all ofthe good stuff, I finished early
and and did a ton of differentthings in undergrad, I also was
(19:54):
like I don't know if I'm readyto do this.
Yeah, and I'm not sure, like ifI am good enough for this
program, if I am good enough asa person, if my experience is
valid enough.
And I felt that fear and I wasscared and I was very, very,
very unsure of what my next stepwas going to be.
(20:14):
And I remember someone tellingme you know, if you go, do it
for two weeks and if you don'tlike it, just you know, we can
stop grad school and you canfigure it out, but it really was
.
It was really life changing forme and, you know, ultimately it
got me to where I am.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh.
Yes, I remember feeling thatimposter syndrome and that just
self doubt Like am I even in theright program?
After I started.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Before I started it was.
It was just pure excitement,right, and it was also.
I'm remembering the timeline.
It was also because I finishedmy undergrad in May and the
graduate program started in thesummer, so also in May.
So I remember a few of us whowere finishing up our undergrads
(21:08):
, we were taking, we were in thegrad classes and then after
that we were still doing finalsfor undergrad.
Oh my gosh.
So there was no time to feel orthink about what's happening.
You're just in it.
And then, like I remembertalking to a few of the girls in
the cohort were like, okay,what did we get into?
I didn't realize the intensityof the graduate program and how
(21:31):
much it was Not just like courseload, workload, academics, but
like the counseling skills, theemotional depth that it required
.
And there was a lot ofinsecurity around that of like,
am I going to be a goodcounselor?
Can I do this work?
So yeah, and a lot of us feltthat way.
(21:52):
And then it was also like yourpersonal growth, because you're
so challenged in these grantprograms to grow personally.
And like I remember one of thegirls specifically saying, I
went to my car and I startedcrying.
This was like a few weeks intothe program and I was like, yep,
we've all had that at somepoint in the program, right,
because you're just all theself-doubt am I right for this
(22:13):
field?
Did I do?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
choose the right program.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Can I do this work like?
And I was the first one in myfamily to go to graduate school,
so graduate school was a wholenew, like ball game that I
didn't know how to navigate.
Um, so, yeah, that then.
Buster syndrome was there allfrom the very beginning.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, it's funny because I I feel that now and I
think about, like theseconversations for me are not,
they're no more so like whereare you, what are you doing?
But more so like okay, now,what, yeah, what, yeah, what
else?
Like I was telling you today,I'm now inspired to write a book
Like where the heck is thiscoming from, all these different
(22:52):
things, but it's scary.
It's scary for me because I'm,I'm, I'm like okay, I can't.
It's not like 50 years ago,where we can do the same job for
30 years straight and thenretire.
Yeah, and that for me, I'm like,oh my gosh, like I came into
this workforce thinking that'swhat it was going to be like.
And then you are in it and thenyou see things that you
(23:14):
disagree with that.
You agree with that.
You're like I could do thatdifferently, or why is that?
And you start to question, youget in healthy trouble that's
what I'm starting to call it,and all of these different
things and I think starting abusiness, doing things on the
side, teaching, doing my job andelevating the role to be what
(23:35):
I've made it to be, is all like.
It's almost like I'm buildingso much pressure there that it's
going to burst and I'm notgoing to know what to do next.
And that's scary, for whenpeople are like, well, you've
done all these amazing things,so now what are you going to do?
Or, um, when I say, like youknow, like I'm good, like I'm
good where I am, that freaks meout because I'm scared to like
disappoint her for people to belike oh, like that's it
(23:58):
interesting.
Yeah, I know, that was a lot no, no, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, um, I wonder just I was thinking about this
as you were sharing.
I wonder if like because I knowyou're also in your personal
life going to transition to anew role sometime- next year.
I wonder if, after that andmaybe starting a family, if
things will shift around thathigh expectation that you have
(24:23):
for yourself and also the folksaround you have for you, because
then you're going to have theseadditional roles and
responsibilities what do youthink would that happen?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
you know I've I've thought about that a lot because
I'm like, well then, thepressure is not just going to be
on me, right, it's going to beon us.
And I keep thinking like it'sgoing to be on us and my partner
and I were, in our families,the highest achieving and again
I say that with privilege and Isay that coming from very humble
background and heart.
It's intense and I'm nervous.
(24:55):
I'm really nervous and I thinkthat the shift, the lens will be
shifted, but the pressure isgoing to be in a different area.
Now.
She's going to be a great wifeand a mom and still excel in her
career and do all the thingsand still take care of
additional family.
So I don't want to think aboutit, but I'm going to have to.
And I think that's where Irelearn what boundaries look
(25:19):
like in my personal life with myfamily members and things like
that.
Because when it shifts, I thinkas a woman that's where I'm
most nervous of it shifting.
Rather, it's a little separatethan my career.
I don't know if that made sense.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, it totally does , because it sounds like there's
still going to be the pressurearound your career, but now
pressure around these otherroles that you have to play.
Are you going to be outstandingin every single role in your
life, because you've alwaysexcelled?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
that part.
No, honestly like, and I tellthat's why I tell you all the
time and I don't mean it as likea passing that's I'm like, I
look up to you because you areexcelling in my eyes in every
role and I'm like shit, I gottabe like arminie oh my god, I
gotta be like arminie, you know,like arminie's falling apart
over here not to me, you know,like and and a lot of us see you
that way, yeah, and I keepthinking like, okay, if she can
(26:12):
do it, you know, and she's doingall these things like I can do
it too, and I that's where I getnervous, because our cultures
are very different and I knowthe expectation of where that's
coming from and for me I'm likeI don't think I can be the
traditional latina wife, I'msorry.
Luckily, my partner understandsthat in a way, but it's also
(26:32):
does my family.
Does the culture I grew up in?
Do other people around thatunderstand and accept it?
I think that, for me, is whereI'm getting nervous.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, it's hard when there is the cultural
expectation of what it means tobe a wife and a mom to navigate.
That Armenian culture is verysimilar to Latino Latina culture
in that sense of like thetraditional gender roles and
everything you have to kind ofnavigate as a woman and a lot of
(27:04):
it goes on set because you justdo it.
You know you take care of thehome, you take care of the
family, you take care of thehusband and in certain
situations too, and it's likeit's just that's the way you
were raised, that's what you'veseen in your families.
You don't even think about likethis is a gender role or this
is um extra work that I couldnot be doing, right, it's just
(27:26):
you do it and so it's a lot ofpressure but at the same time I
think that you know we all haveto be mindful of what is
authentic to us.
So when you were kind oftalking about, you know,
impressing folks around in yourfamily and like making sure
they're proud of you and and soforth, and am I making this
(27:48):
decision about my career?
That is for me, or is it toimpress or to make people proud
of me?
A lot of that goes into the nowwe're talking about authenticity
to ourselves, like a lot of theteachings when I, when I read
about manifestation and and likeyou, you know it's going to
sound funny, but like the law ofattraction, they do talk about,
(28:09):
like when to manifest thosesuccesses, to manifest a happy
life and all those things thatwe're dreaming of.
You have to be authentic to you.
You have to know what yourauthentic code is, and in order
to do that, we have to learn toshut out the noise around this.
It's the hardest thing everbecause, especially for people
who are attached to their familyand so ingrained in their
(28:32):
cultures, it's hard.
But at the same time, thatself-awareness is probably
what's going to help us do thatbest, and some days we'll do it
better than others, but knowingwhat's authentic to us is
ultimately what's going to makeus happy and successful, and
that success might lookdifferent than what your family
expects of you, and we're allgoing to have to learn to be
(28:53):
okay with that.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, this goes back to show how self-assessment,
self-development,self-reflection,
self-understanding and awarenessis huge in your life and in
career development is huge inyour life and in career
development and that is reallywhy that aspect and that phase
of the cycle is my favorite,because it's self-learning, is
who am I?
And really truly understandingeach part of the person.
(29:16):
I'm curious, armanay, when youwere going back to work and
shifting, was that difficult forothers around to understand?
Like you are a mom but you alsoare going back to work and work
is also not a priority anymore,right, but it's somewhat of an
importance, a part of your lifeand who you are.
(29:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I'm so, so thankful to have the husband and the
family that I have, because theyall have been very supportive
of like.
We see that you love yourcareer.
We don't want to hold you back.
It would be a lot easier, likejust dynamic wise, if I wasn't
working and taking care ofeverything at home and my
(30:01):
husband could focus on his work.
But the reality is that hewould feel guilty to hold me
back from the things that makeme thrive and fulfilled, and so
I can only be grateful for that.
But I know that not every familyfunctions that way.
My mom has told me she's like Iwould not want you.
I see how hard it is for younow because you're literally I
(30:23):
always joke, I'm like I'm notthriving, I'm just surviving
people, and she's like I knowit's hard, but believe me when I
say if you leave your job, it'sgoing to be harder, and I know
it, I know it.
So anytime the thought crossesmy mind, if I mention it
(30:45):
half-jokingly to my mom or myhusband, they'll be like no,
don't think about that, becauseit is not going to make you
happy.
Even though you think it isright now, because you're tired
and overwhelmed, it's not goingto make you happy ultimately.
So they they're like the voiceof reason when I you know.
Yeah, so I can only be grateful.
But I did worry about, likeother family, extended family,
in-laws and folks who mightthink of this in a different way
(31:06):
, but thankfully everybody hasbeen super supportive and I
could.
You know, I can only just begrateful yeah, yeah, well, for
everyone listening.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
career conversations go beyond just like what you're
doing at your job and clearlythe both of us have career
conversations in differentaspects of our lives and in
different parts of who we areand how.
That's also transitioning forourselves, right, as you're
moving forward with differentcareer conversations around the
holidays, remember that you knowyou best, right, you know you
(31:37):
best.
Identify your goals, bestrategic, set boundaries with
other people, right, especiallythose who you feel are intruding
a little bit in your space.
Seek out different feedback,and that's why these mentors and
professionals and people likeArmine and I are here, right To
support and guide you andremember that you can be
(31:58):
proactive and change what youwant or need to, and that's all
on you.
Hi everybody, welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour.
How is everyone?
Happy Holidays, yes, happyHolidays.
We're in between Thanksgivingand Christmas, and Hanukkah and
New Year and any other holidaysyou may be celebrating during
this time of year.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, it's such a nice cold time.
I don't know, this time isalways awkward, I think, because
you don't know really if you'rein work mode, school mode,
vacation mode.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, family mode.
There's a lot going on duringthis time of year.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah.
So, Arminé, what are we talkingabout today?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We're talking about, on the same note of holidays and
maybe spending time with familymore than usual during this
time of year.
We're talking about how to havecareer conversations around the
dinner table, around theholiday table.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
That sounds like a sticky situation to be in it
sure is it sure is we know ascounselors.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's not easy to have these conversations when you're
in a space where you're notsure yet what you're doing with
your career, what your nextsteps are going to be.
And then you see family thatyou haven't seen maybe in like a
year or in a few months, andthey're asking you how are
things going, what?
Where are you working, Are yougoing to school?
(01:27):
What's your next step?
And, like you, just gettingthese questions back to back
could be so overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I remember in college Iactually was so lucky to never
have to engage in this type ofconversation Because I was the
type of kid who knew how to plan, knew what they were doing
doing, knew what was next, and Iwas always more so like
updating everyone.
That's how I always kind oftook the holidays.
But I'm a different breed.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, yeah, you are a different breed.
But yeah, I actually feelsimilarly because I never felt
unsure about how to present mycareer goals to family.
I actually remember the yearthat it was new year and I was
(02:12):
going to graduate the nextcalendar year and I was like, oh
, I remember telling my mom oh,now, when people ask me when are
you graduating, I can say nextyear, this is for, like my
bachel's.
I was excited to kind of sharethat like timeline with people.
But I know that, though you andI may not have experienced the
(02:32):
challenge and the overwhelm ofhaving to answer questions when
you're unsure, as counselors wesee it all the time in our
students and clients, so we knowhow much of a heavy burden it
can be on folks.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, and I think career, the conversation around
career just is a veryoverwhelming and can be anxiety
inducing for a lot of peoplebecause it's a very peculiar
topic on what my interests are.
They may not resonate the samewith other people or sometimes
people may disagree or not likeit or have a different opinion
of their own, especially whenit's coming from somebody you
(03:06):
know, a family member, a lovedone, a friend, whatever that
looks like.
It can be tough to navigatethose conversations with people.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
It is because, if you , it's an important topic and
it's actually an emotional topicfor people, you know, because
career encompasses so much oflike the way we see ourselves
and what place we hold insociety, or at least that's how
people feel about careers, evenif it shouldn't be that way.
That's a whole different topicfor another day but it does like
(03:36):
encompass our whole identitiesof how we see ourselves and how
we present ourselves to theworld, and so it could really be
emotional to talk about it,especially when you're unsure
about your career goals.
So, and then it's coming frompeople who are maybe important
to you and that you really wantto impress.
There's that component.
Or it could be people that,like I don't really care about
(03:58):
my great aunt's opinion, youknow, but like she's inserting
her opinions.
So there's so many differentdynamics there.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, I, um, I love.
I love that you said thatbecause it's funny.
I, my entire life, I alwayswould think like what, what is
my brother going to say?
What is my brother going tothink?
Is he going to be proud?
And I doubt that he's listeningto this, but if he ever does
one day, I want you to know that.
I always thought about that andI still continue to think about
that.
But you're right, it's peoplewho care and love you.
(04:27):
They're inserting their opinioninto not only your career, but
it's your overall life, right?
Because our lives reallyrevolve around what we do in
them every day.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, and the meaning that we put on these
careers and jobs that we have.
It is an emotional topic.
So, mj, let's say somebody isat the dinner table and they're
having a good time with familyand all of a sudden, that
dreaded topic comes up wherethey ask okay, so what have you
(04:59):
been up to this past year?
Where are you working or whereare you studying?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Well, first, I'm going to try not to panic.
I'm going to try not to panicand I'm going to breathe, and I
think it's really analyzing whatit is that you want to say
right, and for many people, ifyou are still exploring or feel
confused or lost, that may notbe the initial reaction you want
to give right, because that maybring up a lot of emotions of
(05:23):
other people around.
But maybe you use the languageof I'm currently still exploring
or I've been up to this or I'vebeen researching this or I've
been talking to these kinds ofpeople, and I think the first
thing to do is one breathe,right, it's okay.
It's okay to not expect thesequestions and to expect them,
but also know what type ofresponses you can have that are
(05:44):
not only going to make thesituation more tense than what
it really needs to be.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, definitely I think, speaking confidently
about your career developmentprocess and really actually
emphasizing what you do know,about what you're doing, versus
what you don't.
So if, for example, maybeyou've been researching
professionals on LinkedIn to doinformational interviews with
them, or you've been heavily inthe job search process,
(06:10):
utilizing different sources tofind jobs, or maybe you're
currently updating your resumeor talking to a career counselor
, talking to your academicadvisor, if you're a student,
whatever steps you've beentaking to gain more information
or move the one step forwardtoward your career goals, you
can kind of, you know, bring theconversation around those
(06:31):
topics versus reacting in a waywhere it's like I don't know and
then inviting unwelcomed advice.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, I absolutely agree.
It's very much so taking aproactive approach on the
question itself and saying theseare the steps that I'm taking
or these are the things that I'mdoing, so this person, whoever
it is, can also see I'm not justsitting around waiting for the
answer, I'm not just stayingcurious.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, and you know, as we're talking about this, I'm
thinking maybe a listener mightthink well, why do I have to
answer to people Especially ifit's somebody that, like I see
once a year and then I don'treally need or want their
opinion Like why do I even needto answer to them?
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yikes, you're asking a people pleaser, so let's
acknowledge that.
So in my head I'm like I'm justgoing to answer them regardless
, so I don't have to shareanymore.
But if you are thinking youknow why should you answer?
I think there's also a politeand respectful way to handle the
situation too.
Right, by by nicely shuttingdown the conversations of like
oh, you know, currently giving ashorthanded response and then
saying you know, that's where Iam and I'm not really wanting to
(07:38):
talk about it any more thanthat.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's where boundaries
come into play, depending onyour personal boundaries.
And if you want to talk aboutit or want to get into more of
like the things you are doing,great, it's just more source of
information and topic ofconversation that you can have
with family.
But if you have a certain kindof relationship with certain
family members and you're notwanting to engage in these
(08:02):
conversations, yeah, there's adefinitely respectful and polite
way to like set thoseboundaries and say thank you so
much for asking I'm I would liketo talk about something else or
something along those lineswhere you're not really engaging
in conversation or giving theminformation you don't want to
share.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, and I think this is where the piece of
guidance you gave before onspeaking confidently also comes
into play, right?
Because if you're quivering, ifyou're nervous, if you're like
freaking out out of breathanswering this, there's also
there's that feeling of, oh, isthis person hiding something or
they're not telling the wholetruth?
Yeah, right.
So it's also being confident inwhere you are and remembering
that every person experiencescareer development differently,
(08:45):
and we're all at differentstages too.
So you also have to be kind andgive yourself grace with
wherever you are, because youwill be moving on to the next
step at your own pace.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, wherever you are, because you will be moving
on to the next step at your ownpace.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And you know, I would actuallyinvite folks who may be reacting
that way to career questions tothink about and reflect on why
do you want to shut down theconversation?
Like, where is that coming from?
Because oftentimes, even thoughit might not seem that way in
the moment, when people areasking questions or giving
unsolicited advice, it may becoming from a good place of like
(09:19):
they actually want to.
You know, see you succeed andsee the best for you.
They may be doing it in thewrong way or approaching it
based on their own perspectiveof career, their own
insecurities around career, soit might not be received well,
but the intention may be good.
So I would invite folks toreally reflect on why do you
(09:41):
want to shut down thoseconversations if you feel that
way?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, I agree, and I'm going to add to that a lot
of time.
These things can come as like.
In Spanish we say likeado,which means like um.
The literal term or translationis is heavy, but what it's mean
to say is like very tough, veryum, direct and assertive and a
negative connotation, so that,although this may seem, or it
(10:07):
can feel like a criticism orsomeone trying to insert their
opinion in a not positive light,remember that this person is
also coming from a good place,wherever they're standing in
their own position too, thatthey're wanting to share or
wanting to ask for, to give youguidance on whatever they think
is best too.
And I think that leaves us upto us as counselors, but also as
(10:28):
humans, to remember that thisperson is just coming from
wherever their walk of life is,and it's not not always a
reflection on you or what you'redoing in your career, in your
life, but it could also bewherever they are.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, truly.
And along with that same note,when folks maybe start giving
advice or, more so, when theystart criticizing, like why are
you doing that, that like youwon't make a lot of that, that
like you won't make a lot ofmoney or you won't find a lot,
of job with that major and thosekinds of things.
That's like coming from a reallyanxious place.
Yeah, um, I can't tell you likehow many times countless times
(11:04):
I've talked to students, clientsand even friends and just
people in my community who havesaid like I've changed my major
because of other people'sopinions, or other people are
making me feel like this majorsucks.
So the reality is like thesemessages are coming from that
person's own anxieties aroundtheir careers and their jobs.
(11:25):
So it's really hard not to letthem project onto you and not to
take on those anxieties,because it's it's we're human
beings, right Like we.
We pick up on people's energies.
So it's hard to stop that fromhappening.
But I think maybe it'simportant to recognize that if
people are reacting that wayabout a particular career choice
(11:45):
you have, it's coming fromtheir own anxieties.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, I a hundred percent agree, and I think this
is where your response, insteadof reaction, is very much so
valid here, right?
So, thinking about how do youwant to respond to this person
rather than just immediatelyreact to what they're saying?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So what are some other wayspeople can set boundaries or
some language they can use?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah.
So again, I'm not an assertiveperson or direct.
One of my strengths is harmony,so setting boundaries is really
really hard for me, but I thinkI've gotten better with
language, especially in aroundthe um.
This is my final answer.
No is my response, and how youcan translate that is, I think,
start with gratitude or givingthanks, even though it's not
solicited advice that you'reasking for, right, so saying
(12:32):
thank you or I'm grateful foryour guidance, but I'm going to
trust my own instincts forexample, thank you for sharing
your thoughts, but I'm not opento discussing this further or
even by acknowledging how you'refeeling right.
I'm starting to feeloverwhelmed or anxious by all of
this conversation or advicethat I'm getting.
I need some space to kind ofthink about this on my own.
(12:53):
Those are really powerfulstatements that really project
where you are in thisconversation and topic and give
someone pause in response to say, oh, you know, this person is
doing their own thing and Ishould give them, you know, some
time.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, because when we, you
know, stay calm in thosesituations or we, you know,
don't engage in that anxiousenergy, it'll really help to
just smooth that process and notescalate that conversation.
Right where you're focusing on,I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm
(13:33):
wanting to maybe talk about adifferent topic, as opposed to
saying you and blame.
That's like one of the basicmediation skills that we learn
as counselors.
Right when it's like, avoidblaming or using language that
makes the other person feelblamed.
So instead it's like the Istatements of I'd like to talk
(13:53):
about something else or I'mfeeling overwhelmed around this
topic, and so forth.
So, being mindful of thelanguage that you're using and
then the energy and the tone,and just trying your best not to
um engage with the person's owninsecurities and own
projections towards you yeah, ar.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
How do you feel about it being so in my head?
Like these conversations arelike in passing, like when
you're getting ready or when youare just kind of it's weird,
but like roaming around whiledinner is getting set up or
whatever that looks like on thisholidays, or just kind of you
know, kicking back just playinga game or whatever that looks
like.
But what do you feel about whenthere's a pressure of someone's
(14:35):
asking you for a sense of beingan example to others type of
way?
Oh, like you're the oldest kidin the family, so you have to
have it together or like theonly person who's like at this
level, what do you think aboutkind of those, those where
you're the only category?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Oh my gosh, I literally felt the pressure in
my shoulders right now, and so,metaphorically, you know that is
so much burden on a person'sshoulders and having to also not
only do the right thing quote,unquote in everybody's eyes but
also know how to say it in theway where whoever's listening,
(15:14):
whoever's observing is, islearning from you.
Yeah, that I can't even.
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I'm thinking a lot about like first gen students,
first gen professionals and howthis is kind of the
conversations that they have.
I'm thinking about a few peoplein particular, but I know that
this is tough when you are likethe first or you're the only
person, kind of, in this areaand it's almost like, oh, like,
let's talk about this person andwhere they are and the next big
(15:41):
thing for them, becausesometimes you are where you are
and you're not ready to thinkabout the next big thing too.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, and those conversations could also turn
into, like putting that personon a pedestal and, oh my gosh,
look at where this person is and, like everybody else, is
starting to feel some type ofway around that person.
And even though the intentionof those conversations is to,
like, help motivate everybodyelse around them, it actually
maybe that person isn't thatsure of themselves but, because
(16:10):
of all this pressure to be sure,they can't even express, like
you know, what I actually don'tknow or I'm not.
Maybe I'm reconsidering.
You know this job or this major, and they're too scared to even
share it.
Because they're there, they'vebeen made to be this person who
has it all figured out.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about both sides of the
spectrum, of someone who'sentering the job market or
someone who's currently changingtheir career, but also someone
who is the only person in theirfamily who may be in a career
yeah, yeah, mj, I know thatyou're an exemplary, exemplary
person in many areas of yourlife.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Um, how, how, how have you handled those types of
situations?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
it's hard.
Um, I want to say that it'shard and I don't mean that it's
like, oh, it's hard to beawesome and amazing and all
these different things.
But I think for myself, itcomes down to a lot of how I
view myself and how muchinternal pressure I put on
myself.
And what are the expectationsof others, my friends, my family
members, my mentors, people who, like seen me grow and they're
(17:16):
like, okay, you've been doingthis for X amount of time.
Like what are you doing next?
Like I'm still just trying tofigure it out, right?
Or when I get told like okay,like you know, you have all
these certifications and all ofthese accomplishments.
Like so, when are you going togo back to school and finish?
And when are you going to goback to school and finish?
(17:37):
And when are you going to dothis and when are you going to
do that?
Or this person's doing that.
Why is it so hard for you to goback and do this?
So, for me, I battle a lot withmy internal conversations and
how I treat internal MJ and whatthat looks like for her, and
and the way I feel and the way Isee myself in my career and my,
my overall life goals becauseit Because it's very much so
like am I wanting to do thisbecause I know it's going to
make other people or thesituation look better, or is it
(18:00):
because I really want to embarkon this new journey or adventure
or opportunity?
So I personally struggle a lotwith what does that look like
for me and how do I keepeveryone around satisfied and
happy?
But also like facing the truthof am I satisfied and happy?
What does that look like for me?
So it's, it's, it's difficultand it's I say that with a ton
(18:22):
of privilege because it's not.
It's not something that I also.
I feel like right now.
I feel like I'm complaining,but it's not something I need to
necessarily be complainingabout too no, you know,
everybody's experience is theirown and, um, it's fair and
you're.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You have every right to feel that way, and you
actually have worked really hardto be where you're at today.
So you know all that privilegecomes with hard work and a lot
of sacrifice that you've put into be where you're at.
It's not, it wasn't handed toyou.
So you're also entitled to feelproud of some of those
accomplishments too.
But, with that being said, haveyou ever had to have a
(18:59):
conversation or say out loudlike, uh, that you're unsure
about some like a career goal oran opportunity that's upcoming?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, um, I'll tell you this, and I don't remember
if I've shared this before, buttwo weeks before I started, or a
week before I started mymaster's program, I and this was
, I guess, in my head now likevery early on before I
officially became a counselorand started working I, um, I
wasn't sure that was something Iwas ready to do, okay, and I
(19:31):
panicked, and I panicked and Iremember crying, I remember a
lot of crying and I was scared.
That was the emotion I wasfeeling, was scared, but it was
stemming from feeling like I'mnot good enough and although I
in school, you know 4.0, all ofthe good stuff, I finished early
and and did a ton of differentthings in undergrad, I also was
(19:54):
like I don't know if I'm readyto do this.
Yeah, and I'm not sure, like ifI am good enough for this
program, if I am good enough asa person, if my experience is
valid enough.
And I felt that fear and I wasscared and I was very, very,
very unsure of what my next stepwas going to be.
(20:14):
And I remember someone tellingme you know, if you go, do it
for two weeks and if you don'tlike it, just you know, we can
stop grad school and you canfigure it out, but it really was
.
It was really life changing forme and, you know, ultimately it
got me to where I am.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh.
Yes, I remember feeling thatimposter syndrome and that just
self doubt Like am I even in theright program?
After I started.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Before I started it was.
It was just pure excitement,right, and it was also.
I'm remembering the timeline.
It was also because I finishedmy undergrad in May and the
graduate program started in thesummer, so also in May.
So I remember a few of us whowere finishing up our undergrads
(21:08):
, we were taking, we were in thegrad classes and then after
that we were still doing finalsfor undergrad.
Oh my gosh.
So there was no time to feel orthink about what's happening.
You're just in it.
And then, like I remembertalking to a few of the girls in
the cohort were like, okay,what did we get into?
I didn't realize the intensityof the graduate program and how
(21:31):
much it was Not just like courseload, workload, academics, but
like the counseling skills, theemotional depth that it required
.
And there was a lot ofinsecurity around that of like,
am I going to be a goodcounselor?
Can I do this work?
So yeah, and a lot of us feltthat way.
(21:52):
And then it was also like yourpersonal growth, because you're
so challenged in these grantprograms to grow personally.
And like I remember one of thegirls specifically saying, I
went to my car and I startedcrying.
This was like a few weeks intothe program and I was like, yep,
we've all had that at somepoint in the program, right,
because you're just all theself-doubt am I right for this
(22:13):
field?
Did I do?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
choose the right program.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Can I do this work like?
And I was the first one in myfamily to go to graduate school,
so graduate school was a wholenew, like ball game that I
didn't know how to navigate.
Um, so, yeah, that then.
Buster syndrome was there allfrom the very beginning.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, it's funny because I I feel that now and I
think about, like theseconversations for me are not,
they're no more so like whereare you, what are you doing?
But more so like okay, now,what, yeah, what, yeah, what
else?
Like I was telling you today,I'm now inspired to write a book
Like where the heck is thiscoming from, all these different
(22:52):
things, but it's scary.
It's scary for me because I'm,I'm, I'm like okay, I can't.
It's not like 50 years ago,where we can do the same job for
30 years straight and thenretire.
Yeah, and that for me, I'm like,oh my gosh, like I came into
this workforce thinking that'swhat it was going to be like.
And then you are in it and thenyou see things that you
(23:14):
disagree with that.
You agree with that.
You're like I could do thatdifferently, or why is that?
And you start to question, youget in healthy trouble that's
what I'm starting to call it,and all of these different
things and I think starting abusiness, doing things on the
side, teaching, doing my job andelevating the role to be what
(23:35):
I've made it to be, is all like.
It's almost like I'm buildingso much pressure there that it's
going to burst and I'm notgoing to know what to do next.
And that's scary, for whenpeople are like, well, you've
done all these amazing things,so now what are you going to do?
Or, um, when I say, like youknow, like I'm good, like I'm
good where I am, that freaks meout because I'm scared to like
disappoint her for people to belike oh, like that's it
(23:58):
interesting.
Yeah, I know, that was a lot no, no, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, um, I wonder just I was thinking about this
as you were sharing.
I wonder if like because I knowyou're also in your personal
life going to transition to anew role sometime- next year.
I wonder if, after that andmaybe starting a family, if
things will shift around thathigh expectation that you have
(24:23):
for yourself and also the folksaround you have for you, because
then you're going to have theseadditional roles and
responsibilities what do youthink would that happen?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
you know I've I've thought about that a lot because
I'm like, well then, thepressure is not just going to be
on me, right, it's going to beon us.
And I keep thinking like it'sgoing to be on us and my partner
and I were, in our families,the highest achieving and again
I say that with privilege and Isay that coming from very humble
background and heart.
It's intense and I'm nervous.
(24:55):
I'm really nervous and I thinkthat the shift, the lens will be
shifted, but the pressure isgoing to be in a different area.
Now.
She's going to be a great wifeand a mom and still excel in her
career and do all the thingsand still take care of
additional family.
So I don't want to think aboutit, but I'm going to have to.
And I think that's where Irelearn what boundaries look
(25:19):
like in my personal life with myfamily members and things like
that.
Because when it shifts, I thinkas a woman that's where I'm
most nervous of it shifting.
Rather, it's a little separatethan my career.
I don't know if that made sense.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, it totally does , because it sounds like there's
still going to be the pressurearound your career, but now
pressure around these otherroles that you have to play.
Are you going to be outstandingin every single role in your
life, because you've alwaysexcelled?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
that part.
No, honestly like, and I tellthat's why I tell you all the
time and I don't mean it as likea passing that's I'm like, I
look up to you because you areexcelling in my eyes in every
role and I'm like shit, I gottabe like arminie oh my god, I
gotta be like arminie, you know,like arminie's falling apart
over here not to me, you know,like and and a lot of us see you
that way, yeah, and I keepthinking like, okay, if she can
(26:12):
do it, you know, and she's doingall these things like I can do
it too, and I that's where I getnervous, because our cultures
are very different and I knowthe expectation of where that's
coming from and for me I'm likeI don't think I can be the
traditional latina wife, I'msorry.
Luckily, my partner understandsthat in a way, but it's also
(26:32):
does my family.
Does the culture I grew up in?
Do other people around thatunderstand and accept it?
I think that, for me, is whereI'm getting nervous.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, it's hard when there is the cultural
expectation of what it means tobe a wife and a mom to navigate.
That Armenian culture is verysimilar to Latino Latina culture
in that sense of like thetraditional gender roles and
everything you have to kind ofnavigate as a woman and a lot of
(27:04):
it goes on set because you justdo it.
You know you take care of thehome, you take care of the
family, you take care of thehusband and in certain
situations too, and it's likeit's just that's the way you
were raised, that's what you'veseen in your families.
You don't even think about likethis is a gender role or this
is um extra work that I couldnot be doing, right, it's just
(27:26):
you do it and so it's a lot ofpressure but at the same time I
think that you know we all haveto be mindful of what is
authentic to us.
So when you were kind oftalking about, you know,
impressing folks around in yourfamily and like making sure
they're proud of you and and soforth, and am I making this
(27:48):
decision about my career?
That is for me, or is it toimpress or to make people proud
of me?
A lot of that goes into the nowwe're talking about authenticity
to ourselves, like a lot of theteachings when I, when I read
about manifestation and and likeyou, you know it's going to
sound funny, but like the law ofattraction, they do talk about,
(28:09):
like when to manifest thosesuccesses, to manifest a happy
life and all those things thatwe're dreaming of.
You have to be authentic to you.
You have to know what yourauthentic code is, and in order
to do that, we have to learn toshut out the noise around this.
It's the hardest thing everbecause, especially for people
who are attached to their familyand so ingrained in their
(28:32):
cultures, it's hard.
But at the same time, thatself-awareness is probably
what's going to help us do thatbest, and some days we'll do it
better than others, but knowingwhat's authentic to us is
ultimately what's going to makeus happy and successful, and
that success might lookdifferent than what your family
expects of you, and we're allgoing to have to learn to be
(28:53):
okay with that.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, this goes back to show how self-assessment,
self-development,self-reflection,
self-understanding and awarenessis huge in your life and in
career development is huge inyour life and in career
development and that is reallywhy that aspect and that phase
of the cycle is my favorite,because it's self-learning, is
who am I?
And really truly understandingeach part of the person.
(29:16):
I'm curious, armanay, when youwere going back to work and
shifting, was that difficult forothers around to understand?
Like you are a mom but you alsoare going back to work and work
is also not a priority anymore,right, but it's somewhat of an
importance, a part of your lifeand who you are.
(29:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I'm so, so thankful to have the husband and the
family that I have, because theyall have been very supportive
of like.
We see that you love yourcareer.
We don't want to hold you back.
It would be a lot easier, likejust dynamic wise, if I wasn't
working and taking care ofeverything at home and my
(30:01):
husband could focus on his work.
But the reality is that hewould feel guilty to hold me
back from the things that makeme thrive and fulfilled, and so
I can only be grateful for that.
But I know that not every familyfunctions that way.
My mom has told me she's like Iwould not want you.
I see how hard it is for younow because you're literally I
(30:23):
always joke, I'm like I'm notthriving, I'm just surviving
people, and she's like I knowit's hard, but believe me when I
say if you leave your job, it'sgoing to be harder, and I know
it, I know it.
So anytime the thought crossesmy mind, if I mention it
(30:45):
half-jokingly to my mom or myhusband, they'll be like no,
don't think about that, becauseit is not going to make you
happy.
Even though you think it isright now, because you're tired
and overwhelmed, it's not goingto make you happy ultimately.
So they they're like the voiceof reason when I you know.
Yeah, so I can only be grateful.
But I did worry about, likeother family, extended family,
in-laws and folks who mightthink of this in a different way
(31:06):
, but thankfully everybody hasbeen super supportive and I
could.
You know, I can only just begrateful yeah, yeah, well, for
everyone listening.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
career conversations go beyond just like what you're
doing at your job and clearlythe both of us have career
conversations in differentaspects of our lives and in
different parts of who we areand how.
That's also transitioning forourselves, right, as you're
moving forward with differentcareer conversations around the
holidays, remember that you knowyou best, right, you know you
(31:37):
best.
Identify your goals, bestrategic, set boundaries with
other people, right, especiallythose who you feel are intruding
a little bit in your space.
Seek out different feedback,and that's why these mentors and
professionals and people likeArmine and I are here, right To
support and guide you andremember that you can be
(31:58):
proactive and change what youwant or need to, and that's all
on you.
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