January 21, 2025 • 43 mins
Discover the secrets to mastering your job search and transforming challenges into stepping stones. We'll share invaluable insights on why securing a new position before leaving your current one is important, especially for fresh graduates entering the workforce. Join us as we unpack the emotional rollercoaster of job hunting, from grappling with self-doubt to navigating rejection, and emphasize the importance of emotional support during these trying times.
Tune in for expert advice on crafting personalized resumes and cover letters that stand out, and learn the power of networking and informational interviews in reducing stress. We'll highlight the pitfalls of hastily applying for jobs and the risks tied to quick-apply features. Plus, gain practical tips on managing job transitions with grace, including the importance of professional etiquette and discretion in the workplace. Through personal stories, we'll explore balancing current job duties with the pursuit of future opportunities. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting, this episode is packed with strategies to enhance your job search success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And truly the golden rule when it comes to job search
is do not leave your currentposition until you have another
one secured.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I think it is the most important thing for
students to think about whenthinking about life after
graduation.
I think a lot of students don'twant to think that far ahead
and they just you know, I wasthe type of person who was like
C's get degrees, let me just getthis and I'll think about work
later.
(00:30):
That does not work anymore inthe current space.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yes, we are here with heavy hearts today because it
all happened so fast too,literally in the past two days,
and we just keep seeing more andmore fires, new, more places,
new places, uh, burning up.
And I saw a real yesterday andit was a pacific palisades, and
(00:58):
I literally thought it was a warzone.
I thought it was a war zone ofone of the cities in Armenia
that got blown up right duringthe war a couple of years ago.
I literally thought it was avideo of that area and then I
saw that it was PacificPalisades.
I couldn't believe it.
So it's actually been reallyrough for us here.
(01:18):
Angelenos are really struggling, so we wanted to kind of
acknowledge that this is what'shappening.
This is on our minds and in ourhearts, but we are praying that
the situation will be undercontrol as soon as possible and
that everybody will stay safeand continue to stay strong in
(01:42):
this situation.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, it's such a devastating moment for millions
of people in the city and justaround the world who are, you
know, supporting us from afar,to anybody experiencing loss.
Our hearts, our minds, ourthoughts, our prayers are with
you.
We really do.
You know it's going to take alot of healing from the city and
hopefully it can come undercontrol very soon.
But know that we're thinking ofyou and we're here.
(02:06):
We're here in all the ways thatwe can be.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
And with that said, today we want to start off the
new year talking a little bitabout job search and the general
career development process,because we know that as a new
year begins, people often wantto start fresh, like the new
year new job, new year, new meconcept, right.
(02:33):
So we want to kind of talk alittle bit about what that job
search might look like and sometips that we have If you are
thinking about changing jobs oractively in the job search
process.
We want to kind of navigate,help you navigate, that
situation today.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I've been seeing a trend, whether that's
like on LinkedIn or Instagram,of people posting like new year,
new role, new year, new job,new job, new me all of these
different types of littletaglines that have to do with
the new year, and I'm not thebiggest fan of a new year, new
me, but I definitely willsupport it as long as it has to
(03:12):
do with career development.
So it's kind of exciting seeingpeople start off the year with
like the most appropriatecyclical time, I guess, when
it's like January and they havenew positions, when it's like
January and they have newpositions.
But job searching is not allhappy rainbows and cupcakes the
way it is when you feel likeyou've gotten an offer and
you've secured the position.
(03:33):
It does not definitely startoff that way for a lot of people
.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Oh my gosh, I can totally attest to the fact that
you are not a new me, new year,new me person.
I, literally before the newyear, new me person.
I, literally before the newyear, was telling you that I
want to start doing thisparticular activity after the
new year.
And you were like, why waituntil the new year?
Just start now.
And it's like the end ofDecember, the holidays are
(04:00):
coming up and it literallydoesn't work with my schedule
and you're like just start now,today.
So, yes, I agree, you are not anew year, new me type of gal.
But, with that said, yes, jobsearch can definitely be, you
know, overwhelming.
It is not a fun process,honestly, it's not.
(04:21):
I've never heard anybody saythey had a great time searching
for jobs.
Everybody's always stressedabout it and it typically takes
longer than you expect or hopeit will.
And there's a lot of likehurdles, kind of question
yourself and like all of ourinsecurities come out right,
(04:45):
because when we don't get anoffer, we don't get an interview
, or we do get the interview,but then we start questioning
like what did they think of me?
They weren't smiling when Ianswered this question.
I wonder how I came across.
I said um too many times.
Right and like basically all ofour insecurities come out and
and we overthink things and thenthe rejection just hits harder
(05:08):
because we start taking itpersonally.
I think that's the emotionaltoll that job search has on us.
That's what makes itchallenging.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Absolutely.
I feel like job searchingshould come with like a
therapist on the side, becauseit's so much that you're
navigating and you can becomeoverly critical of yourself and
put yourself in such a bad headspace because of how it's going.
And of course we're talkingabout what we um we a lot of the
time see as career counselors.
There will be moments wherepeople will find that three leaf
(05:40):
clover and it's one jobapplication, one interview, one,
one to two interviews and thenthey get the offer right.
There are opportunities thathappen like that, but for a lot
of people that may not be thecase and it really is.
It has to do with the biggerpicture, right.
That person may be job searchingand going to school.
That person may be jobsearching and having to support
a family of six, like.
(06:00):
So many different factors haveto do with the job search
process that can make it such anabsolutely horrible like I
can't even say the word horribleand horrifying process for
people because it's one.
It's so difficult right now thejob market is not great.
But also, two people just havea hard time processing emotions
(06:23):
while going through this process, have a hard time processing
emotions while going throughthis process.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, and you know what sucks is that like you
actually have to put your bestfoot forward, but when you're
feeling insecure and questioningyourself, it's like a double
edged sword.
How do I put my best footforward from not feeling
confident?
Because I literally just gotrejected two days ago and now
I'm here at this like otherinterview, right?
So we're here.
(06:47):
We're here for you all If youare navigating this process.
We can be the therapist, we canbe the career counselor, we can
be the shoulder to cry on.
We want to offer that so you canreach out to either MJ or
myself to talk about any of thisprocess or get individual
support and guidance andresources needed to help you
(07:10):
kind of move forward in thisprocess.
So you know how to reach us.
We both have our websites.
They're in the show notes.
You can reach us on Instagramas well, but we're happy to
coach you in this process.
But in today's episode we kindof want to talk about some tips
major tips that we have as younavigate the job search process.
(07:30):
So, MJ, what would you tell ouraudience Like?
What is the first thing toconsider when they're job
searching?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Let's get clear on what you're looking for.
A lot of people run into thejob search with much more of a
cloudy mindset.
A lot of people run into thejob search with much more of a
cloudy mindset.
They may be coming from an areaor a role that they've been
doing for a long period of timeand they're just like I'm just
going to look for a new job, butthey really have no sense of
direction.
Or they can be coming from asituation where they may feel
(07:58):
really frustrated, undervalued,annoyed, all of the not so happy
feelings and just startapplying frantically to
different things and again havethat no sense of direction.
So what I tend to find a lot ofthe time, whether it's working
with, um, the variety of clientsthat we do is where do you want
to go and where do you seeyourself?
Let's kind of start there.
(08:19):
So it's beginning with anassessment of you, not
necessarily of saying like, okay, let's rate your skills from
one to five, but what are youlooking for?
What are you hoping for, whatare things that interest you?
And a lot of times this stepreally takes a lot of a lot from
the person doing the job search, because it has them reflect on
(08:40):
what they're interested in,what they don't like to do, if
they really enjoyed what theyjust did or if it was just
another job to them, and how arethey going to push that forward
in this new job search.
Whether it's it's, the priorityhere is money.
I need money and I don't carewhat kind of job I do, or my
priority is my passion and myinterest versus how much I get
paid.
Right, so it's also evaluatingall those things no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Amazing, yes, definitely Really kind of
clarifying right where you seeyourself, because we want to
avoid like leaving one stickysituation and then jumping into
another sticky situation thatmight even be worse than where
you were at before.
That kind of happened to me.
(09:37):
Now that I think about it, aswe're talking about one sticky
situation to the next, when Iswitched jobs from one
institution to another this isboth before UCLA I would say
that that second job that I tookactually was a lot more
challenging in many differentways than my first job.
So and it all happened at thetime of the pandemic, literally
(10:00):
March 2020, the week that thatwas my last week at my job,
right, and I was gonna take acouple of days off and then
start my new job that week.
I remember it was like maybe mylast day of work.
We start getting thenotification that there's
something going around.
We start getting thenotification that you know
there's something going around,we might need to shut down, and
(10:23):
then I leave my job the next daywe are shut down, so I start my
new job a couple of days afterthat.
We're already completely remote,very uncertain situation, and
this new job that I startedthere was a huge learning curve
because I was doing a big partof student affairs that I hadn't
done before, in addition towhat I used to do.
(10:45):
So it was like two jobs in one,because it was a smaller
institution and I did not havemuch training on one big part of
the job, so I had to learn thatand I had to do it all
completely remotely.
I had so many questions, didn'thave the relationships built
yet with my colleagues to beable to comfortably ask them
(11:08):
questions.
I found myself emailing peoplequestions, and these people are
my co-workers who I've neverseen in person.
It was a disaster.
These people are my co-workerswho I've never seen in person.
It was a disaster.
So I left one sticky situationand moved on to another sticky
situation that was a lot morechallenging.
So all that to share that whenyou are thinking that maybe this
(11:30):
job is not the right fit foryou, you may be happier
elsewhere and so forth, youreally want to think about
putting yourself in situationsthat will hopefully help you
grow and learn and be happier,versus just leaving this place,
Because if you're only focusedon leaving this place, you might
find yourself in a place that'sworse.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I find that people, when they get the
beginnings of the idea that theywant to leave, find a new job,
it's almost like a itch thatthey can't relieve.
In a weird way, it's like youcan itch it so much or you can
scratch it so much that itdoesn't go away and there's
almost like this rush, this rush, this sense of wanting to just
leave whatever it is and move onto the next thing as quick as
(12:14):
possible and realistically, thatdoesn't happen, right?
We know, on average, thetraditional the job search
process, from moment of searchand preparing your materials all
the way to securing anopportunity, takes about three
to six months.
It's.
It's a long time, right?
If you think about it, it'sliterally like 24 weeks, yeah,
(12:37):
yeah, yeah, 24 weeks, and it caneven take longer sometimes,
just depending.
And right now the job market inthe US is not doing so great.
We're seeing a lot of delays,companies pushing back
opportunities, start times.
We're seeing a lot of peoplehaving to apply to 150 plus
opportunities to even get aninterview or get seen, having to
(12:58):
apply to 150 plus opportunitiesto even get an interview or get
seen.
Now, that's to say, we have noidea what they're also applying
with Armin and I, as careercounselors, strongly believe
that to apply to different jobsyou need to have strong
documents right.
So we also have no idea whatthat person's working with too.
But we know that when you startwith, when you lead with a great
document, cover letter, resume,all that good stuff you build
(13:20):
those connections, network withpeople, do a couple
informational interviews.
It can alleviate some of thestressors that come with the
traditional job search as well.
We can't guarantee that thosethings are going to give you an
opportunity, but they'redefinitely again going to
alleviate some of that stresstoo.
But it does take a long time,but people tend to kind of want
to rush into it, not reallythinking about all of the steps
(13:42):
that have to happen yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
On that note of like rushing into it, I also see
people avoiding applicationsthat might be a little bit
longer, a little bit more, havedifferent components to it.
I've heard students, clients,share like, oh, if they ask me
for a cover letter, I'm just notgoing to apply to that job and
(14:05):
wanting to just do like thosequick apply, click, easy apply.
For example, like on LinkedIn,there's a feature for easy apply
and then many different likesearch engines too, will have
one-click submission where youcan easily apply to a position.
But that's actually not theright way.
You're probably prolonging yourprocess by trying to do these
(14:27):
shortcuts and avoiding thethoughtful applications.
Because quality over quantity,right.
If you're applying to hundreds,I'll have students say my
friend applied to 100 jobs lastquarter before they got
something and I'm like, yeah,that's probably should not be
applying to 100 jobs and if youare, you're not seeing any
results.
(14:47):
There's definitely a patternthere we should be looking at.
So it's not really aboutquantity of applications, it's
about quality.
So actually going that extramile, doing the cover letter,
being thoughtful in yourapplications, do less
applications but do them betterand then you're likely to see
better results.
(15:08):
And so avoiding.
I definitely agree, MJ, aboutnot rushing and that rushing
happens in different phases ofthe job search process, right?
So you're talking about whenpeople first get that itch to
like change jobs and thenrushing to get out of that job.
There's also rushing in theapplication process and just
rushing overall to get an answer.
(15:29):
Being anxious the whole timeuntil you get answers.
It's a lot of mental andemotional toll as well.
So being at peace and takingthe time to really go through,
assess your needs, assess whatyou're looking for and what's
the right fit for you, and thentaking the time to do those
applications well, is going toserve you better in the long run
(15:52):
.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
When you were talking abouteasy apply, I was thinking about
how many people usually use oneresume to apply to every job,
or they'll also use a generalcover letter that they're going
to send to every applicationhuman and also possibly getting
a first run interview by youtailoring your materials,
(16:18):
looking over, taking the time toreally go through your resume,
comb through the differentexperiences you have and see
what kind of fits right, to makesure that you are also
demonstrating your best selftowards this position, but also
to the person whether it's thehiring manager, the recruiter
seeing your application too.
You're talking about, yes,rushing from one opportunity to
(16:39):
the next, which leads me to afunny story I've been wanting I
don't know if it's that funny,but a story I've been wanting to
share on the podcast for awhile and truly, the golden rule
when it comes to job search isdo not leave your current
position until you have anotherone secured.
That is the golden rule I'veheard my entire five years of
(17:02):
working as a career counselor.
I've been told that numerously,by my own account, but also to
others that I'm supporting too.
Again, this applies to peoplewho are different, so if you're
in a situation where they'reasking.
You know, like you are, youhave a certain amount of time
before you have to leave yourjob.
That's going to be tricky, butif you're choosing to leave,
(17:24):
that's that type of situation.
You're choosing to leave yourposition or role.
Do not leave until you haveanother job secured, because you
don't know what that in-betweentime will look like for you.
Again, we're talking alreadyabout how long the average job
search takes, and now you canadd different layers just
depending on where we are.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Hey listeners, do you also indulge on your favorite
cup of coffee during our show?
We want to share something todelight any coffee lover Unique
coffee-themed merchandise.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I'm so in.
I'm always looking for uniquegifts, and coffee themed items
are always a hit.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Absolutely.
And where better to find themthan on buyblackitcom?
Buy Black.
It is all about weavingtogether style, art and prints
inspired by generations, pastand present.
They created their store toprovide items that are
heartwarming, inspirational,thoughtful and funny that you
(18:21):
can share with the people youlove and care about.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Absolutely.
They offer a fantastic coffeelover selection which will pair
perfectly with your Coffee andCareer Hour podcast episode,
with a wide variety ofcoffee-themed merchandise, from
stylish mugs, t-shirts and evencoffee accessories.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
It was so cute the first time I saw it.
I'm thinking of a funnycoffee-themed t-shirt for my
colleagues.
They are all huge coffee fans.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Oh my god, yes, and you can really find something
special on there for everycoffee lover.
On your contact list and withthe coffee lover's selection on
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Speaker 3 (19:03):
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Use our affiliate link to get15% off any items on on their
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Forward slash coffee and careerpod.
(19:25):
The link will be in our shownotes.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Now let's get back to our show.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
But what was your story, mj?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Oh, I get nervous every time I talk about it or I
think I feel the anxiety that Ifelt back then.
And I say this not being so farfrom then and just looking back
and being like little MJ,because I feel like I'm big
sister MJ and that's like alittle sister MJ, sister MJ.
(20:04):
But before a couple jobs ago,when I was moving from
institutions, I just was offeredthe first let me how can I put
this into very simple terms?
I was applying to differentopportunities.
One of the first jobs that Iapplied to I quickly got a
response, met with them overZoom, had a great interview.
I thought it was great.
Funny enough, that was the lastday of that current job that I
(20:24):
was working.
And then we went Christmasbreak and whatnot.
Over the Christmas break,between Christmas and New Year,
I was asked to come to campus.
At that time they did not frameit as a second round interview.
So I, I, I don't know what inmy mind like what's kind of
happening.
They just framed it as likelunch and then you get to go
(20:45):
home just so you could seecampus.
But naturally there was like atour of the space, you meeting
people who you might work with.
Um, I was a finalist.
They had told me that for forsure and I was going to be
starting with a new team ofpeople.
Um, everything went well.
I had.
Uh, my last interview was likemeeting with the director.
I got the call.
(21:05):
Let's see, that was before thenew year.
Two weeks later I got the callbasically saying like uh, we
want you, know, we, we want youto join our team.
Here's the paperwork.
Mj signed the paperwork, hadhad the new job New job, new
year.
Very funny that that actuallyhappened that year.
Six, four months later I was, Iwent out of town, I went out of
(21:29):
the country for a family thingand I think I had the internal
self-realization of how much Ihated my life, how much I hated
my job, how much I hated what Iwas doing, how it was not true
to what I was actuallypassionate about, and how much
internal regret I had aboutchoosing the first job that I
(21:50):
was offered, because it was doneout of fear and anxiety rather
than a strategy point, done outof fear and anxiety rather than
a strategy point.
And that tells you already alot about my character.
But I've grown so much morefrom there and filled with my
shoes of confidence.
But, long story short, I cameback and I made the internal
decision to look for another job, that I realized that I really
(22:12):
wasn't happy and that the momentI came back to the U?
S I was going to start jobsearching.
23 job applications later, 17interview rejections later, um,
I was feeling defeated.
I was continuously getting tothe final rounds of different
(22:33):
student affairs positions andjust being told, like you know,
getting that famous interview,that famous email, thank you for
your interest.
But we went with someone else.
Um, just constantly feelinglike attacking myself.
Uh, feeling not confident, notgood, not happy.
Um, so I was still working thatcurrent job, but then there was
(22:57):
something inside of me thatjust I couldn't do it anymore.
I was having like thesefeelings of waking up and going
to sleep, like, with likefeelings of horror, like I did
not want to go to work, I didnot want to go to sleep, I did
not want to go home because Iknew I was going to have to go
to sleep and wake up and go towork the next day.
I was crying on my way to work,I was like driving in silence
(23:21):
because I could not stand what Iwas doing, because it wasn't
true to who I was and it washorrible.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It was horrible.
That sounds so rough.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It was like the worst feeling and, honestly, it
wasn't like my team um.
It was just like the work wasnot true to what I was told I
was going to be doing and it wasnot.
It just didn't sit well.
And, funny enough, I wascalling my old supervisor every
week, sobbing like sobbing,because I hated what I was doing
(23:57):
.
I was, I remember, telling herlike I don't want to do this
anymore.
I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want to, I can't, I
can't do this.
And she would tell me all thetime do not leave until you have
another job, do not leave untilyou have another job.
I was so sick and tired ofhearing that because nothing was
happening.
I was getting interviews, I wasgetting final round interviews,
(24:20):
I was going to differentcampuses and nada, like nothing.
And I was like there'ssomething wrong with me because
I don't know what it is.
That like either, my resume, myinterview responses is just not
working.
And then, all of a sudden, acouple weeks later, I was like
I'm just going to quit, I can'tdo this anymore.
(24:42):
And I still didn't have a job.
I was feeling really nervousbecause I, as every adult, have
bills to pay, family and certainaspects I need to take care of.
So what was I going to dowithout getting a steady
paycheck and having a master'sdegree?
I was feeling so much worse asa person and it was eating me
(25:04):
alive.
I ended up leaving my job withinthe middle of whatever month
that was, and then, ironicallyironically that week later I had
a final round interview withtwo schools and one of those
schools ended up calling me onthe same day and, as you can
tell, I'm still working that job.
(25:26):
Really lucky, that does nothappen.
That's not something that wenormally see.
Right, it could have taken memonths, because it was also the
end of the school year, enteringsummer and a new academic year,
but it was just a matter of theuniverse and for me it was like
(25:50):
God just watching over me andmaking sure that I was okay.
But I learned my lesson to neverleave a job without a job,
because, even if it was a shortweek that I was jobless, I
didn't sleep.
I couldn't sleep.
I couldn't stop thinking.
I was like addicted to viewingthe job application portals and
(26:10):
seeing my status and just seeinglike rejected, reject, like um
it's not rejected that they use,but just like um, the verbiage
that they have there and readingthe emails over and over again
about how like thank you foryour interest, but we're not
going to have it.
It was horrible that thatprocess.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Oh my gosh, I can only imagine the overthinking
that was happening in your mindand like rereading those emails
and like assessing what theymean by every single word and
what like reading between thelines.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
knowing you, I can imagine like how much over
analyzing you were doing tooyeah, and it was hard because I
would meet with everyone on zoomand they were smiling.
I was like I would crack a jokehere and there.
I was just being myself and I'mlike I thought crack a joke
here and there, I was just beingmyself and I'm like I thought
that went freaking amazing, likewhat happened.
(27:02):
But you know, like it justwasn't.
They weren't the positions forme, they weren't the
opportunities for me.
But you can't see that, youcan't see bigger picture until
you're out of that situation.
Like I remember my mom and mypartner were so worried because
I wasn't eating, I wasn'tsleeping, I was like I didn't
(27:22):
want to do anything, anything,anything except for apply to
jobs, prepare, try harder andjust like over critically I was
becoming my worst enemy in thatshort, like two and a half
months.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Oh, wow, I can't imagine I met you when you were
pretty much in that space Wow,you didn't come across that way
at all on the interview, or whenwe first hired you.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
So I'm yeah, I'm surprised to hear that you were
literally going through all thatright before I met you that, um
, right before I met you, yeah,and I think it goes to show what
you were talking about how youalways have to put your best
foot forward, no matter whatyou're feeling through the
process, because I was feelinghorrible.
I was feeling so, like, just Iwas, I was disappointed in
(28:12):
myself because I was notsecuring anything and it was
like I was like, oh, I wasapplying to things that I was so
over qualified for and peoplewere like, oh, like we went with
an internal applicant but we'regonna refer you to this person
and I kept getting like thosetypes of things.
But it was just horrible.
But I put my best foot forward.
(28:33):
I I was not feeling my best,but I know that I gave every
interview my all, just becausethat's just my personality.
Like a lot of people preparefor interviews differently, I
prepare for it like if it's afinal exam.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Oh yeah, I remember you asked me when you had first
started something about like howI prepared, and you told me how
you had your notes.
You showed me your notes it waslike front and back notes that
you had read.
I was like, oh, mg, no, Ididn't do it that way.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I think that it was.
I was at the tail end of twentythree like applications and
this was my 17th or 18thinterview.
Ironically, when I got thiscall, I also had gotten the call
from the interview I just hadthe week before and was offered
and was basically.
They were really sad, but itwas a very different job Still
in.
It was an academic affairs, notstudent affairs, but I think I
(29:32):
made the right choice at the endof the day.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
I think so too.
I'm glad you made this choice.
But isn't that interesting,like 23 applications later, you
finally you're like I'm done, Ican't handle this anymore.
You leave your job and then youget two job offers basically
within that same week.
So it was all meant to be.
But you're right, I mean, itdoesn't always happen that way,
(29:56):
like within the same week to geta job offer.
So the golden rule it reallyreally is to get a new job
before you leave your old job.
And companies know that.
Hiring managers know that.
So if you get like, offered thestart date, you can, you know,
obviously negotiate that and letthem know.
(30:16):
I need to give at least a twoweeks notice to the current job
that I'm at right now.
That is something that's likean unspoken rule and everybody
respects those timelines, sothat shouldn't be a problem upon
getting a new job and having toexit your current job.
But yeah, you don't want tofind yourself in a situation
(30:36):
where you are jobless for monthsbecause you just don't know.
It's such an uncertain processand you never know when that
position is going to come along,you know.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, I will say to something to note.
If you are, you know, wantingto switch roles, your supervisor
, your team, your colleagues dodo not need to know that you're
also searching for another job.
That's something that peopleit's more of like a personal
thing, right, like if you weresearching for different
opportunities and you don't haveto tell your supervisor that
(31:10):
you're doing that, or your boss.
A lot of people feel like theyhave to because they should like
in their minds, I guess,prepare that person that they'll
be leaving soon.
But it's not something you haveto do because at the end of the
day, you don't know what thesituation is going to look like.
Right, let's say yoursupervisor leaves and that was
the person who was making yourlife miserable.
Things could change at any pointin time.
(31:32):
But know too that you don'thave to disclose any information
of that sort while you're alsogoing through that process, any
information of that sort whileyou're also going through that
process.
And until you have an offer,like literal written offer, then
I would go to your supervisorand talk about it.
And I say written specificallybecause even a verbal offer is
still not official.
(31:52):
You need an official writtenoffer before coming to your
supervisor and talking to that,and even then your supervisor
could try to negotiate with youto stay.
They could offer you more money, they could offer you benefits,
they could offer you work fromhome, you know, like all sorts
of different things too.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, yeah, you definitely don't need to, you
can.
I've had people ask like I'mpretty close with my supervisor,
our relationship, you know Ifeel bad.
It'll almost be like you knowI'm backstabbing them if I leave
without you know letting themknow I'm in this process.
So, depending on yourrelationship with your
supervisor, you can let themknow.
(32:29):
I've been in situations likethat where I've actually let my
supervisor know they knew I wasinterviewing.
I was like I got to take thisday off because I have an
interview and then the next dayshe's asking me how the
interview went and so forth.
So it kind of depends on yourrelationship, but you are not
required at all.
I actually, on that same note, Iremember I was interviewing for
(32:52):
a job while I was working at myother job and it was a multiple
round interview.
So I kept needing to ask fordates off and I remember
something happened where it wasthey were asking me for another
date for an interview and Icouldn't make it because we were
busy at work and I had to, like, ask them for a different date
(33:15):
and I remember I actually had tocommunicate with the person
who's trying to schedule me forthe next interview.
I had to communicate with themand say I'm sorry, I keep you
know, wanting to change the date.
I'm actually just to let youknow what's going on.
I currently work at this placeand this is what's happening in
our institution and in ourcenter, and I don't want to let
(33:41):
my center know that I'minterviewing multiple times,
right?
So that's why I want to bestrategic about the dates that I
pick for the interview, so thatit doesn't interfere with my
current work, since they don'tknow yet and she was so
understanding actually ended upgetting that job offer.
I did decline it, though.
She was so understanding.
I actually ended up gettingthat job offer.
I did decline it, though.
But that was a situation whereI was like, oh my gosh, you know
(34:05):
how do I communicate this.
I have to make sure they knowthat I'm still interested in the
job.
But there's a reason why I'mbeing a little bit complicated
about scheduling theseinterviews and I was like how do
I go about this?
And I just decided I was likeyou know what I'm going to be
honest, because if I do end upworking here, you know these are
people I'm going to be workingwith.
(34:25):
So I want them to kind of seewho I am and the real me.
So I just I was honest withthem and it ended up going a
long way.
It ended up they seemed toreally like me.
I did end up deciding to stayat my job at that time and
declined the offer, but it wasan interesting experience having
to be like very transparent andcommunicate with this new
(34:46):
potential supervisor that Idon't know her style yet, I
don't know how their culture isaround communication, but I had
made the decision to be astransparent as I could be and it
ended up actually working outreally well.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, and you bring up a really good point about how
, in the interview process, youreally want to remember that
you're also interviewing thepeople who are bringing you in
for an interview, and here'swhere you can tell a lot about
them.
Right, you were talking aboutyou being honest and how they're
being receptive to that.
If they weren't, that wouldhave been an orange or red flag
for you, right.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I did.
I remember feeling like whenshe replied back very
empathetically like totallyunderstand, let's work around
this, I was like, oh my god, sheseems like a really
down-to-earth great person.
I feel like I I would becomfortable working for her if I
were to take this job yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
You can tell a lot about the people you're going to
work with through the interviewprocess as well, and how they
also handle it too.
So that's awesome.
Something I want to go back toreally quickly about your
relationship with yoursupervisor.
If you are thinking about this,I'm not sure what everyone in
their entire world looks liketheir supervisor relationship.
You may have one-on-ones.
(35:56):
You may have them frequently,bi-weekly, once a month or once
a quarter, whatever that is.
Bless you, armine.
But you, of course, you alsowant to communicate.
If you're someone who's hopingto move forward in a certain
direction, you want to be surethat they know that, not
necessarily from the beginningof day one, but also that you're
(36:17):
looking for opportunities togrow as a person, as a
professional, because that isimportant to your overall
development as a human, and theyshould be supporting you right.
A great leader is someone who'sgoing to support their
employees or their staff towardsgrowth, no matter how difficult
, how hard that may be for themto, even if that may be losing
(36:38):
you, for you to get a differentposition and be able to flourish
somewhere else.
So that relationship is crucial, and you know we have I've seen
a lot of horrible stories likeon TikTok or Instagram reels
about people.
There's like retaliation fromtheir supervisors and bosses
because they're leaving orbecause of something that's kind
(36:58):
of occurring in that area,which is horrible and should not
be happening.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, I'm shaking my head because that's not the
professional standard, right?
You want to allow your staff tolearn and grow, and if this is
not the right place for them,it's not the right place for
them.
But unfortunately, emotions runhigh, insecurities come out,
people you know, differentstyles and personalities kind of
(37:25):
clash, and then people starttaking things personally.
It happens.
It happens especially in thecorporate world.
So I think we just have to kindof continue to assess at all
times is this place stillserving me?
Is this work still serving me?
Am I the best version of myselfin this role that I'm at?
(37:47):
Or the people that I'm workingwith?
Are they aligned and are ourviews similar about this
industry and the work that we do, about this industry and the
work that we do?
And?
And if not, then it's okay.
It's okay to make those shifts.
You just want to be intentionalabout the shifts right and and,
like we were saying earlier,avoid rushing from one to the
(38:09):
next, just being thoughtful,analyzing and being intentional.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
A hundred percent because you don't want to burn
your bridges along the way.
So definitely being verymindful about how you manage
this process, trying to be it'syou're the middle person between
two companies, right, in anideal situation.
So you want to make it assmooth as process and don't burn
any bridges along the way,because the world is really a
small place.
If you're going into the samefield, it's also a very small
(38:36):
place.
We always say that about highereducation, which is so true.
So you definitely know whereother people can be, can hear
how you were as a staff member,as an employee, or how that
might affect you in the future.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Definitely it is higher.
Ed, for sure, is a small world,but I think all industries right
, because companies know eachother and there's a lot of
cross-collaboration amongdifferent companies of the same
industry.
So you do want to maintain,especially with social media,
the world is just a lot smallerthese days and I think it's just
going to continue to feelsmaller and smaller as we have
(39:13):
more tools in our hands toconnect with folks across the
world.
So, with that being said, likethere, it's easy for people to
connect and ask about you andyour performance and so forth.
So, wanting to kind of makesure that you're you're putting
your best foot forward and,along those same lines, making
(39:34):
sure that you're always talkingto people and putting yourself
out there and essentially alwaysquote unquote interviewing,
right, because if you're in acurrent job now, maybe you're
happy where you're at, that'sgreat, but you don't want to let
yourself get too complacent,right?
Maybe right now you're notthinking to switch jobs, but two
(39:55):
years later you might befeeling like at a place where,
okay, it's time for a change,either growth, opportunity,
advancement, something like that, right.
And so that work starts now.
It starts today likeinterviewing, putting yourself
out there, showcasing yourskills, showcasing you know what
you're good at and the workthat you do, and making those
(40:18):
connections right Along whileyou're happy doing the work that
you're.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And making those connections right along, while
you're happy doing the work thatyou're doing today, because you
don't know what opportunitiesthose that will bring one year,
two years, ten years down theroad absolutely, and I think we
can kind of wrap it upbeautifully with some with some
things to remember which you'realready mentioning to armenian,
and one of the first ones is toreally prioritize yourself in
the search, but also the valuesthat you want to lead this
(40:42):
search with.
We talked in the beginningabout doing a self-assessment
about where you are, yourinterest, what's important to
you right now, and reallyleading your search in that area
.
There's, of course, alwaysgoing to be technical things
that you're going to be lookingat monetary, location, people,
growth, company projects, allthat good stuff but really
prioritizing yourself and howyou want to lead in what
(41:05):
direction the search is superimportant.
The second thing and Arminie isalready talking about this is
always be interviewing, alwaysshowing your best face, no
matter where you go, whetherthat's to a different site to do
a project, or if you'recollaborating with a project, or
if you're collaborating with adifferent person, or if you're
just randomly meeting someone ata coffee shop.
You always want to talk veryhigh about wherever it is that
(41:28):
you work, right.
You don't want to ever downtalk anything in your role and
the people that you work withtoo, and just being your best
self and who you are.
And the last thing is don't getcomfortable, because then you'll
stop growing.
Comfortability really does seepin and some people kind of just
are like, well, like I've donethis for a long time, I'm good
at it, I'm just going to keepdoing it, and if that's kind of
(41:51):
the way you want to live yourlife, you know, more power to
you.
But we're always, as careercounselors, going to challenge
you to to grow, to getuncomfortable, because that is
how you learn, that is how youevolve as a human being and, of
course, how you advance in yourcareers.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Thank you so much for listening.
If you enjoy our show, we askthat you write a review on Apple
Podcasts to help us reach morepeople looking to level up their
career.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Want to connect with us, be sure to follow our
Instagram and websites.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Follow Career Rise on Instagram for career advice and
motivation to help you stay upto date on all things career.
Be sure to also visit mywebsite, careerriseorg, to book
a session with me and accessfree resources.
My goal is to help you clarifyyour goals, make a plan and feel
confident in your careerjourney.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Follow Career Confident Latina for your weekly
dose of career advice and myjourney as a first-gen Latina
counselor.
You can also send me a messageon mjcareerconfidencecom if you
want to book a career counselingsession.
I want to help grow yourconfidence as you reach your
career dreams.
And truly the golden rule when it comes to job search
is do not leave your currentposition until you have another
one secured.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I think it is the most important thing for
students to think about whenthinking about life after
graduation.
I think a lot of students don'twant to think that far ahead
and they just you know, I wasthe type of person who was like
C's get degrees, let me just getthis and I'll think about work
later.
(00:30):
That does not work anymore inthe current space.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yes, we are here with heavy hearts today because it
all happened so fast too,literally in the past two days,
and we just keep seeing more andmore fires, new, more places,
new places, uh, burning up.
And I saw a real yesterday andit was a pacific palisades, and
(00:58):
I literally thought it was a warzone.
I thought it was a war zone ofone of the cities in Armenia
that got blown up right duringthe war a couple of years ago.
I literally thought it was avideo of that area and then I
saw that it was PacificPalisades.
I couldn't believe it.
So it's actually been reallyrough for us here.
(01:18):
Angelenos are really struggling, so we wanted to kind of
acknowledge that this is what'shappening.
This is on our minds and in ourhearts, but we are praying that
the situation will be undercontrol as soon as possible and
that everybody will stay safeand continue to stay strong in
(01:42):
this situation.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, it's such a devastating moment for millions
of people in the city and justaround the world who are, you
know, supporting us from afar,to anybody experiencing loss.
Our hearts, our minds, ourthoughts, our prayers are with
you.
We really do.
You know it's going to take alot of healing from the city and
hopefully it can come undercontrol very soon.
But know that we're thinking ofyou and we're here.
(02:06):
We're here in all the ways thatwe can be.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
And with that said, today we want to start off the
new year talking a little bitabout job search and the general
career development process,because we know that as a new
year begins, people often wantto start fresh, like the new
year new job, new year, new meconcept, right.
(02:33):
So we want to kind of talk alittle bit about what that job
search might look like and sometips that we have If you are
thinking about changing jobs oractively in the job search
process.
We want to kind of navigate,help you navigate, that
situation today.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I've been seeing a trend, whether that's
like on LinkedIn or Instagram,of people posting like new year,
new role, new year, new job,new job, new me all of these
different types of littletaglines that have to do with
the new year, and I'm not thebiggest fan of a new year, new
me, but I definitely willsupport it as long as it has to
(03:12):
do with career development.
So it's kind of exciting seeingpeople start off the year with
like the most appropriatecyclical time, I guess, when
it's like January and they havenew positions, when it's like
January and they have newpositions.
But job searching is not allhappy rainbows and cupcakes the
way it is when you feel likeyou've gotten an offer and
you've secured the position.
(03:33):
It does not definitely startoff that way for a lot of people
.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Oh my gosh, I can totally attest to the fact that
you are not a new me, new year,new me person.
I, literally before the newyear, new me person.
I, literally before the newyear, was telling you that I
want to start doing thisparticular activity after the
new year.
And you were like, why waituntil the new year?
Just start now.
And it's like the end ofDecember, the holidays are
(04:00):
coming up and it literallydoesn't work with my schedule
and you're like just start now,today.
So, yes, I agree, you are not anew year, new me type of gal.
But, with that said, yes, jobsearch can definitely be, you
know, overwhelming.
It is not a fun process,honestly, it's not.
(04:21):
I've never heard anybody saythey had a great time searching
for jobs.
Everybody's always stressedabout it and it typically takes
longer than you expect or hopeit will.
And there's a lot of likehurdles, kind of question
yourself and like all of ourinsecurities come out right,
(04:45):
because when we don't get anoffer, we don't get an interview
, or we do get the interview,but then we start questioning
like what did they think of me?
They weren't smiling when Ianswered this question.
I wonder how I came across.
I said um too many times.
Right and like basically all ofour insecurities come out and
and we overthink things and thenthe rejection just hits harder
(05:08):
because we start taking itpersonally.
I think that's the emotionaltoll that job search has on us.
That's what makes itchallenging.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Absolutely.
I feel like job searchingshould come with like a
therapist on the side, becauseit's so much that you're
navigating and you can becomeoverly critical of yourself and
put yourself in such a bad headspace because of how it's going.
And of course we're talkingabout what we um we a lot of the
time see as career counselors.
There will be moments wherepeople will find that three leaf
(05:40):
clover and it's one jobapplication, one interview, one,
one to two interviews and thenthey get the offer right.
There are opportunities thathappen like that, but for a lot
of people that may not be thecase and it really is.
It has to do with the biggerpicture, right.
That person may be job searchingand going to school.
That person may be jobsearching and having to support
a family of six, like.
(06:00):
So many different factors haveto do with the job search
process that can make it such anabsolutely horrible like I
can't even say the word horribleand horrifying process for
people because it's one.
It's so difficult right now thejob market is not great.
But also, two people just havea hard time processing emotions
(06:23):
while going through this process, have a hard time processing
emotions while going throughthis process.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, and you know what sucks is that like you
actually have to put your bestfoot forward, but when you're
feeling insecure and questioningyourself, it's like a double
edged sword.
How do I put my best footforward from not feeling
confident?
Because I literally just gotrejected two days ago and now
I'm here at this like otherinterview, right?
So we're here.
(06:47):
We're here for you all If youare navigating this process.
We can be the therapist, we canbe the career counselor, we can
be the shoulder to cry on.
We want to offer that so you canreach out to either MJ or
myself to talk about any of thisprocess or get individual
support and guidance andresources needed to help you
(07:10):
kind of move forward in thisprocess.
So you know how to reach us.
We both have our websites.
They're in the show notes.
You can reach us on Instagramas well, but we're happy to
coach you in this process.
But in today's episode we kindof want to talk about some tips
major tips that we have as younavigate the job search process.
(07:30):
So, MJ, what would you tell ouraudience Like?
What is the first thing toconsider when they're job
searching?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Let's get clear on what you're looking for.
A lot of people run into thejob search with much more of a
cloudy mindset.
A lot of people run into thejob search with much more of a
cloudy mindset.
They may be coming from an areaor a role that they've been
doing for a long period of timeand they're just like I'm just
going to look for a new job, butthey really have no sense of
direction.
Or they can be coming from asituation where they may feel
(07:58):
really frustrated, undervalued,annoyed, all of the not so happy
feelings and just startapplying frantically to
different things and again havethat no sense of direction.
So what I tend to find a lot ofthe time, whether it's working
with, um, the variety of clientsthat we do is where do you want
to go and where do you seeyourself?
Let's kind of start there.
(08:19):
So it's beginning with anassessment of you, not
necessarily of saying like, okay, let's rate your skills from
one to five, but what are youlooking for?
What are you hoping for, whatare things that interest you?
And a lot of times this stepreally takes a lot of a lot from
the person doing the job search, because it has them reflect on
(08:40):
what they're interested in,what they don't like to do, if
they really enjoyed what theyjust did or if it was just
another job to them, and how arethey going to push that forward
in this new job search.
Whether it's it's, the priorityhere is money.
I need money and I don't carewhat kind of job I do, or my
priority is my passion and myinterest versus how much I get
paid.
Right, so it's also evaluatingall those things no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Amazing, yes, definitely Really kind of
clarifying right where you seeyourself, because we want to
avoid like leaving one stickysituation and then jumping into
another sticky situation thatmight even be worse than where
you were at before.
That kind of happened to me.
(09:37):
Now that I think about it, aswe're talking about one sticky
situation to the next, when Iswitched jobs from one
institution to another this isboth before UCLA I would say
that that second job that I tookactually was a lot more
challenging in many differentways than my first job.
So and it all happened at thetime of the pandemic, literally
(10:00):
March 2020, the week that thatwas my last week at my job,
right, and I was gonna take acouple of days off and then
start my new job that week.
I remember it was like maybe mylast day of work.
We start getting thenotification that there's
something going around.
We start getting thenotification that you know
there's something going around,we might need to shut down, and
(10:23):
then I leave my job the next daywe are shut down, so I start my
new job a couple of days afterthat.
We're already completely remote,very uncertain situation, and
this new job that I startedthere was a huge learning curve
because I was doing a big partof student affairs that I hadn't
done before, in addition towhat I used to do.
(10:45):
So it was like two jobs in one,because it was a smaller
institution and I did not havemuch training on one big part of
the job, so I had to learn thatand I had to do it all
completely remotely.
I had so many questions, didn'thave the relationships built
yet with my colleagues to beable to comfortably ask them
(11:08):
questions.
I found myself emailing peoplequestions, and these people are
my co-workers who I've neverseen in person.
It was a disaster.
These people are my co-workerswho I've never seen in person.
It was a disaster.
So I left one sticky situationand moved on to another sticky
situation that was a lot morechallenging.
So all that to share that whenyou are thinking that maybe this
(11:30):
job is not the right fit foryou, you may be happier
elsewhere and so forth, youreally want to think about
putting yourself in situationsthat will hopefully help you
grow and learn and be happier,versus just leaving this place,
Because if you're only focusedon leaving this place, you might
find yourself in a place that'sworse.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I find that people, when they get the
beginnings of the idea that theywant to leave, find a new job,
it's almost like a itch thatthey can't relieve.
In a weird way, it's like youcan itch it so much or you can
scratch it so much that itdoesn't go away and there's
almost like this rush, this rush, this sense of wanting to just
leave whatever it is and move onto the next thing as quick as
(12:14):
possible and realistically, thatdoesn't happen, right?
We know, on average, thetraditional the job search
process, from moment of searchand preparing your materials all
the way to securing anopportunity, takes about three
to six months.
It's.
It's a long time, right?
If you think about it, it'sliterally like 24 weeks, yeah,
(12:37):
yeah, yeah, 24 weeks, and it caneven take longer sometimes,
just depending.
And right now the job market inthe US is not doing so great.
We're seeing a lot of delays,companies pushing back
opportunities, start times.
We're seeing a lot of peoplehaving to apply to 150 plus
opportunities to even get aninterview or get seen, having to
(12:58):
apply to 150 plus opportunitiesto even get an interview or get
seen.
Now, that's to say, we have noidea what they're also applying
with Armin and I, as careercounselors, strongly believe
that to apply to different jobsyou need to have strong
documents right.
So we also have no idea whatthat person's working with too.
But we know that when you startwith, when you lead with a great
document, cover letter, resume,all that good stuff you build
(13:20):
those connections, network withpeople, do a couple
informational interviews.
It can alleviate some of thestressors that come with the
traditional job search as well.
We can't guarantee that thosethings are going to give you an
opportunity, but they'redefinitely again going to
alleviate some of that stresstoo.
But it does take a long time,but people tend to kind of want
to rush into it, not reallythinking about all of the steps
(13:42):
that have to happen yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
On that note of like rushing into it, I also see
people avoiding applicationsthat might be a little bit
longer, a little bit more, havedifferent components to it.
I've heard students, clients,share like, oh, if they ask me
for a cover letter, I'm just notgoing to apply to that job and
(14:05):
wanting to just do like thosequick apply, click, easy apply.
For example, like on LinkedIn,there's a feature for easy apply
and then many different likesearch engines too, will have
one-click submission where youcan easily apply to a position.
But that's actually not theright way.
You're probably prolonging yourprocess by trying to do these
(14:27):
shortcuts and avoiding thethoughtful applications.
Because quality over quantity,right.
If you're applying to hundreds,I'll have students say my
friend applied to 100 jobs lastquarter before they got
something and I'm like, yeah,that's probably should not be
applying to 100 jobs and if youare, you're not seeing any
results.
(14:47):
There's definitely a patternthere we should be looking at.
So it's not really aboutquantity of applications, it's
about quality.
So actually going that extramile, doing the cover letter,
being thoughtful in yourapplications, do less
applications but do them betterand then you're likely to see
better results.
(15:08):
And so avoiding.
I definitely agree, MJ, aboutnot rushing and that rushing
happens in different phases ofthe job search process, right?
So you're talking about whenpeople first get that itch to
like change jobs and thenrushing to get out of that job.
There's also rushing in theapplication process and just
rushing overall to get an answer.
(15:29):
Being anxious the whole timeuntil you get answers.
It's a lot of mental andemotional toll as well.
So being at peace and takingthe time to really go through,
assess your needs, assess whatyou're looking for and what's
the right fit for you, and thentaking the time to do those
applications well, is going toserve you better in the long run
(15:52):
.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
When you were talking abouteasy apply, I was thinking about
how many people usually use oneresume to apply to every job,
or they'll also use a generalcover letter that they're going
to send to every applicationhuman and also possibly getting
a first run interview by youtailoring your materials,
(16:18):
looking over, taking the time toreally go through your resume,
comb through the differentexperiences you have and see
what kind of fits right, to makesure that you are also
demonstrating your best selftowards this position, but also
to the person whether it's thehiring manager, the recruiter
seeing your application too.
You're talking about, yes,rushing from one opportunity to
(16:39):
the next, which leads me to afunny story I've been wanting I
don't know if it's that funny,but a story I've been wanting to
share on the podcast for awhile and truly, the golden rule
when it comes to job search isdo not leave your current
position until you have anotherone secured.
That is the golden rule I'veheard my entire five years of
(17:02):
working as a career counselor.
I've been told that numerously,by my own account, but also to
others that I'm supporting too.
Again, this applies to peoplewho are different, so if you're
in a situation where they'reasking.
You know, like you are, youhave a certain amount of time
before you have to leave yourjob.
That's going to be tricky, butif you're choosing to leave,
(17:24):
that's that type of situation.
You're choosing to leave yourposition or role.
Do not leave until you haveanother job secured, because you
don't know what that in-betweentime will look like for you.
Again, we're talking alreadyabout how long the average job
search takes, and now you canadd different layers just
depending on where we are.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
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Speaker 1 (17:56):
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Speaker 1 (18:24):
Absolutely.
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Speaker 3 (18:40):
It was so cute the first time I saw it.
I'm thinking of a funnycoffee-themed t-shirt for my
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They are all huge coffee fans.
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Oh my god, yes, and you can really find something
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(19:25):
The link will be in our shownotes.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Now let's get back to our show.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
But what was your story, mj?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Oh, I get nervous every time I talk about it or I
think I feel the anxiety that Ifelt back then.
And I say this not being so farfrom then and just looking back
and being like little MJ,because I feel like I'm big
sister MJ and that's like alittle sister MJ, sister MJ.
(20:04):
But before a couple jobs ago,when I was moving from
institutions, I just was offeredthe first let me how can I put
this into very simple terms?
I was applying to differentopportunities.
One of the first jobs that Iapplied to I quickly got a
response, met with them overZoom, had a great interview.
I thought it was great.
Funny enough, that was the lastday of that current job that I
(20:24):
was working.
And then we went Christmasbreak and whatnot.
Over the Christmas break,between Christmas and New Year,
I was asked to come to campus.
At that time they did not frameit as a second round interview.
So I, I, I don't know what inmy mind like what's kind of
happening.
They just framed it as likelunch and then you get to go
(20:45):
home just so you could seecampus.
But naturally there was like atour of the space, you meeting
people who you might work with.
Um, I was a finalist.
They had told me that for forsure and I was going to be
starting with a new team ofpeople.
Um, everything went well.
I had.
Uh, my last interview was likemeeting with the director.
I got the call.
(21:05):
Let's see, that was before thenew year.
Two weeks later I got the callbasically saying like uh, we
want you, know, we, we want youto join our team.
Here's the paperwork.
Mj signed the paperwork, hadhad the new job New job, new
year.
Very funny that that actuallyhappened that year.
Six, four months later I was, Iwent out of town, I went out of
(21:29):
the country for a family thingand I think I had the internal
self-realization of how much Ihated my life, how much I hated
my job, how much I hated what Iwas doing, how it was not true
to what I was actuallypassionate about, and how much
internal regret I had aboutchoosing the first job that I
(21:50):
was offered, because it was doneout of fear and anxiety rather
than a strategy point, done outof fear and anxiety rather than
a strategy point.
And that tells you already alot about my character.
But I've grown so much morefrom there and filled with my
shoes of confidence.
But, long story short, I cameback and I made the internal
decision to look for another job, that I realized that I really
(22:12):
wasn't happy and that the momentI came back to the U?
S I was going to start jobsearching.
23 job applications later, 17interview rejections later, um,
I was feeling defeated.
I was continuously getting tothe final rounds of different
(22:33):
student affairs positions andjust being told, like you know,
getting that famous interview,that famous email, thank you for
your interest.
But we went with someone else.
Um, just constantly feelinglike attacking myself.
Uh, feeling not confident, notgood, not happy.
Um, so I was still working thatcurrent job, but then there was
(22:57):
something inside of me thatjust I couldn't do it anymore.
I was having like thesefeelings of waking up and going
to sleep, like, with likefeelings of horror, like I did
not want to go to work, I didnot want to go to sleep, I did
not want to go home because Iknew I was going to have to go
to sleep and wake up and go towork the next day.
I was crying on my way to work,I was like driving in silence
(23:21):
because I could not stand what Iwas doing, because it wasn't
true to who I was and it washorrible.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It was horrible.
That sounds so rough.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It was like the worst feeling and, honestly, it
wasn't like my team um.
It was just like the work wasnot true to what I was told I
was going to be doing and it wasnot.
It just didn't sit well.
And, funny enough, I wascalling my old supervisor every
week, sobbing like sobbing,because I hated what I was doing
(23:57):
.
I was, I remember, telling herlike I don't want to do this
anymore.
I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want to, I can't, I
can't do this.
And she would tell me all thetime do not leave until you have
another job, do not leave untilyou have another job.
I was so sick and tired ofhearing that because nothing was
happening.
I was getting interviews, I wasgetting final round interviews,
(24:20):
I was going to differentcampuses and nada, like nothing.
And I was like there'ssomething wrong with me because
I don't know what it is.
That like either, my resume, myinterview responses is just not
working.
And then, all of a sudden, acouple weeks later, I was like
I'm just going to quit, I can'tdo this anymore.
(24:42):
And I still didn't have a job.
I was feeling really nervousbecause I, as every adult, have
bills to pay, family and certainaspects I need to take care of.
So what was I going to dowithout getting a steady
paycheck and having a master'sdegree?
I was feeling so much worse asa person and it was eating me
(25:04):
alive.
I ended up leaving my job withinthe middle of whatever month
that was, and then, ironicallyironically that week later I had
a final round interview withtwo schools and one of those
schools ended up calling me onthe same day and, as you can
tell, I'm still working that job.
(25:26):
Really lucky, that does nothappen.
That's not something that wenormally see.
Right, it could have taken memonths, because it was also the
end of the school year, enteringsummer and a new academic year,
but it was just a matter of theuniverse and for me it was like
(25:50):
God just watching over me andmaking sure that I was okay.
But I learned my lesson to neverleave a job without a job,
because, even if it was a shortweek that I was jobless, I
didn't sleep.
I couldn't sleep.
I couldn't stop thinking.
I was like addicted to viewingthe job application portals and
(26:10):
seeing my status and just seeinglike rejected, reject, like um
it's not rejected that they use,but just like um, the verbiage
that they have there and readingthe emails over and over again
about how like thank you foryour interest, but we're not
going to have it.
It was horrible that thatprocess.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Oh my gosh, I can only imagine the overthinking
that was happening in your mindand like rereading those emails
and like assessing what theymean by every single word and
what like reading between thelines.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
knowing you, I can imagine like how much over
analyzing you were doing tooyeah, and it was hard because I
would meet with everyone on zoomand they were smiling.
I was like I would crack a jokehere and there.
I was just being myself and I'mlike I thought crack a joke
here and there, I was just beingmyself and I'm like I thought
that went freaking amazing, likewhat happened.
(27:02):
But you know, like it justwasn't.
They weren't the positions forme, they weren't the
opportunities for me.
But you can't see that, youcan't see bigger picture until
you're out of that situation.
Like I remember my mom and mypartner were so worried because
I wasn't eating, I wasn'tsleeping, I was like I didn't
(27:22):
want to do anything, anything,anything except for apply to
jobs, prepare, try harder andjust like over critically I was
becoming my worst enemy in thatshort, like two and a half
months.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Oh, wow, I can't imagine I met you when you were
pretty much in that space Wow,you didn't come across that way
at all on the interview, or whenwe first hired you.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
So I'm yeah, I'm surprised to hear that you were
literally going through all thatright before I met you that, um
, right before I met you, yeah,and I think it goes to show what
you were talking about how youalways have to put your best
foot forward, no matter whatyou're feeling through the
process, because I was feelinghorrible.
I was feeling so, like, just Iwas, I was disappointed in
(28:12):
myself because I was notsecuring anything and it was
like I was like, oh, I wasapplying to things that I was so
over qualified for and peoplewere like, oh, like we went with
an internal applicant but we'regonna refer you to this person
and I kept getting like thosetypes of things.
But it was just horrible.
But I put my best foot forward.
(28:33):
I I was not feeling my best,but I know that I gave every
interview my all, just becausethat's just my personality.
Like a lot of people preparefor interviews differently, I
prepare for it like if it's afinal exam.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Oh yeah, I remember you asked me when you had first
started something about like howI prepared, and you told me how
you had your notes.
You showed me your notes it waslike front and back notes that
you had read.
I was like, oh, mg, no, Ididn't do it that way.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I think that it was.
I was at the tail end of twentythree like applications and
this was my 17th or 18thinterview.
Ironically, when I got thiscall, I also had gotten the call
from the interview I just hadthe week before and was offered
and was basically.
They were really sad, but itwas a very different job Still
in.
It was an academic affairs, notstudent affairs, but I think I
(29:32):
made the right choice at the endof the day.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
I think so too.
I'm glad you made this choice.
But isn't that interesting,like 23 applications later, you
finally you're like I'm done, Ican't handle this anymore.
You leave your job and then youget two job offers basically
within that same week.
So it was all meant to be.
But you're right, I mean, itdoesn't always happen that way,
(29:56):
like within the same week to geta job offer.
So the golden rule it reallyreally is to get a new job
before you leave your old job.
And companies know that.
Hiring managers know that.
So if you get like, offered thestart date, you can, you know,
obviously negotiate that and letthem know.
(30:16):
I need to give at least a twoweeks notice to the current job
that I'm at right now.
That is something that's likean unspoken rule and everybody
respects those timelines, sothat shouldn't be a problem upon
getting a new job and having toexit your current job.
But yeah, you don't want tofind yourself in a situation
(30:36):
where you are jobless for monthsbecause you just don't know.
It's such an uncertain processand you never know when that
position is going to come along,you know.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, I will say to something to note.
If you are, you know, wantingto switch roles, your supervisor
, your team, your colleagues dodo not need to know that you're
also searching for another job.
That's something that peopleit's more of like a personal
thing, right, like if you weresearching for different
opportunities and you don't haveto tell your supervisor that
(31:10):
you're doing that, or your boss.
A lot of people feel like theyhave to because they should like
in their minds, I guess,prepare that person that they'll
be leaving soon.
But it's not something you haveto do because at the end of the
day, you don't know what thesituation is going to look like.
Right, let's say yoursupervisor leaves and that was
the person who was making yourlife miserable.
Things could change at any pointin time.
(31:32):
But know too that you don'thave to disclose any information
of that sort while you're alsogoing through that process, any
information of that sort whileyou're also going through that
process.
And until you have an offer,like literal written offer, then
I would go to your supervisorand talk about it.
And I say written specificallybecause even a verbal offer is
still not official.
(31:52):
You need an official writtenoffer before coming to your
supervisor and talking to that,and even then your supervisor
could try to negotiate with youto stay.
They could offer you more money, they could offer you benefits,
they could offer you work fromhome, you know, like all sorts
of different things too.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, yeah, you definitely don't need to, you
can.
I've had people ask like I'mpretty close with my supervisor,
our relationship, you know Ifeel bad.
It'll almost be like you knowI'm backstabbing them if I leave
without you know letting themknow I'm in this process.
So, depending on yourrelationship with your
supervisor, you can let themknow.
(32:29):
I've been in situations likethat where I've actually let my
supervisor know they knew I wasinterviewing.
I was like I got to take thisday off because I have an
interview and then the next dayshe's asking me how the
interview went and so forth.
So it kind of depends on yourrelationship, but you are not
required at all.
I actually, on that same note, Iremember I was interviewing for
(32:52):
a job while I was working at myother job and it was a multiple
round interview.
So I kept needing to ask fordates off and I remember
something happened where it wasthey were asking me for another
date for an interview and Icouldn't make it because we were
busy at work and I had to, like, ask them for a different date
(33:15):
and I remember I actually had tocommunicate with the person
who's trying to schedule me forthe next interview.
I had to communicate with themand say I'm sorry, I keep you
know, wanting to change the date.
I'm actually just to let youknow what's going on.
I currently work at this placeand this is what's happening in
our institution and in ourcenter, and I don't want to let
(33:41):
my center know that I'minterviewing multiple times,
right?
So that's why I want to bestrategic about the dates that I
pick for the interview, so thatit doesn't interfere with my
current work, since they don'tknow yet and she was so
understanding actually ended upgetting that job offer.
I did decline it, though.
She was so understanding.
I actually ended up gettingthat job offer.
I did decline it, though.
But that was a situation whereI was like, oh my gosh, you know
(34:05):
how do I communicate this.
I have to make sure they knowthat I'm still interested in the
job.
But there's a reason why I'mbeing a little bit complicated
about scheduling theseinterviews and I was like how do
I go about this?
And I just decided I was likeyou know what I'm going to be
honest, because if I do end upworking here, you know these are
people I'm going to be workingwith.
(34:25):
So I want them to kind of seewho I am and the real me.
So I just I was honest withthem and it ended up going a
long way.
It ended up they seemed toreally like me.
I did end up deciding to stayat my job at that time and
declined the offer, but it wasan interesting experience having
to be like very transparent andcommunicate with this new
(34:46):
potential supervisor that Idon't know her style yet, I
don't know how their culture isaround communication, but I had
made the decision to be astransparent as I could be and it
ended up actually working outreally well.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, and you bring up a really good point about how
, in the interview process, youreally want to remember that
you're also interviewing thepeople who are bringing you in
for an interview, and here'swhere you can tell a lot about
them.
Right, you were talking aboutyou being honest and how they're
being receptive to that.
If they weren't, that wouldhave been an orange or red flag
for you, right.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I did.
I remember feeling like whenshe replied back very
empathetically like totallyunderstand, let's work around
this, I was like, oh my god, sheseems like a really
down-to-earth great person.
I feel like I I would becomfortable working for her if I
were to take this job yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
You can tell a lot about the people you're going to
work with through the interviewprocess as well, and how they
also handle it too.
So that's awesome.
Something I want to go back toreally quickly about your
relationship with yoursupervisor.
If you are thinking about this,I'm not sure what everyone in
their entire world looks liketheir supervisor relationship.
You may have one-on-ones.
(35:56):
You may have them frequently,bi-weekly, once a month or once
a quarter, whatever that is.
Bless you, armine.
But you, of course, you alsowant to communicate.
If you're someone who's hopingto move forward in a certain
direction, you want to be surethat they know that, not
necessarily from the beginningof day one, but also that you're
(36:17):
looking for opportunities togrow as a person, as a
professional, because that isimportant to your overall
development as a human, and theyshould be supporting you right.
A great leader is someone who'sgoing to support their
employees or their staff towardsgrowth, no matter how difficult
, how hard that may be for themto, even if that may be losing
(36:38):
you, for you to get a differentposition and be able to flourish
somewhere else.
So that relationship is crucial, and you know we have I've seen
a lot of horrible stories likeon TikTok or Instagram reels
about people.
There's like retaliation fromtheir supervisors and bosses
because they're leaving orbecause of something that's kind
(36:58):
of occurring in that area,which is horrible and should not
be happening.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, I'm shaking my head because that's not the
professional standard, right?
You want to allow your staff tolearn and grow, and if this is
not the right place for them,it's not the right place for
them.
But unfortunately, emotions runhigh, insecurities come out,
people you know, differentstyles and personalities kind of
(37:25):
clash, and then people starttaking things personally.
It happens.
It happens especially in thecorporate world.
So I think we just have to kindof continue to assess at all
times is this place stillserving me?
Is this work still serving me?
Am I the best version of myselfin this role that I'm at?
(37:47):
Or the people that I'm workingwith?
Are they aligned and are ourviews similar about this
industry and the work that we do, about this industry and the
work that we do?
And?
And if not, then it's okay.
It's okay to make those shifts.
You just want to be intentionalabout the shifts right and and,
like we were saying earlier,avoid rushing from one to the
(38:09):
next, just being thoughtful,analyzing and being intentional.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
A hundred percent because you don't want to burn
your bridges along the way.
So definitely being verymindful about how you manage
this process, trying to be it'syou're the middle person between
two companies, right, in anideal situation.
So you want to make it assmooth as process and don't burn
any bridges along the way,because the world is really a
small place.
If you're going into the samefield, it's also a very small
(38:36):
place.
We always say that about highereducation, which is so true.
So you definitely know whereother people can be, can hear
how you were as a staff member,as an employee, or how that
might affect you in the future.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Definitely it is higher.
Ed, for sure, is a small world,but I think all industries right
, because companies know eachother and there's a lot of
cross-collaboration amongdifferent companies of the same
industry.
So you do want to maintain,especially with social media,
the world is just a lot smallerthese days and I think it's just
going to continue to feelsmaller and smaller as we have
(39:13):
more tools in our hands toconnect with folks across the
world.
So, with that being said, likethere, it's easy for people to
connect and ask about you andyour performance and so forth.
So, wanting to kind of makesure that you're you're putting
your best foot forward and,along those same lines, making
(39:34):
sure that you're always talkingto people and putting yourself
out there and essentially alwaysquote unquote interviewing,
right, because if you're in acurrent job now, maybe you're
happy where you're at, that'sgreat, but you don't want to let
yourself get too complacent,right?
Maybe right now you're notthinking to switch jobs, but two
(39:55):
years later you might befeeling like at a place where,
okay, it's time for a change,either growth, opportunity,
advancement, something like that, right.
And so that work starts now.
It starts today likeinterviewing, putting yourself
out there, showcasing yourskills, showcasing you know what
you're good at and the workthat you do, and making those
(40:18):
connections right Along whileyou're happy doing the work that
you're.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And making those connections right along, while
you're happy doing the work thatyou're doing today, because you
don't know what opportunitiesthose that will bring one year,
two years, ten years down theroad absolutely, and I think we
can kind of wrap it upbeautifully with some with some
things to remember which you'realready mentioning to armenian,
and one of the first ones is toreally prioritize yourself in
the search, but also the valuesthat you want to lead this
(40:42):
search with.
We talked in the beginningabout doing a self-assessment
about where you are, yourinterest, what's important to
you right now, and reallyleading your search in that area
.
There's, of course, alwaysgoing to be technical things
that you're going to be lookingat monetary, location, people,
growth, company projects, allthat good stuff but really
prioritizing yourself and howyou want to lead in what
(41:05):
direction the search is superimportant.
The second thing and Arminie isalready talking about this is
always be interviewing, alwaysshowing your best face, no
matter where you go, whetherthat's to a different site to do
a project, or if you'recollaborating with a project, or
if you're collaborating with adifferent person, or if you're
just randomly meeting someone ata coffee shop.
You always want to talk veryhigh about wherever it is that
(41:28):
you work, right.
You don't want to ever downtalk anything in your role and
the people that you work withtoo, and just being your best
self and who you are.
And the last thing is don't getcomfortable, because then you'll
stop growing.
Comfortability really does seepin and some people kind of just
are like, well, like I've donethis for a long time, I'm good
at it, I'm just going to keepdoing it, and if that's kind of
(41:51):
the way you want to live yourlife, you know, more power to
you.
But we're always, as careercounselors, going to challenge
you to to grow, to getuncomfortable, because that is
how you learn, that is how youevolve as a human being and, of
course, how you advance in yourcareers.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Thank you so much for listening.
If you enjoy our show, we askthat you write a review on Apple
Podcasts to help us reach morepeople looking to level up their
career.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Want to connect with us, be sure to follow our
Instagram and websites.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Follow Career Rise on Instagram for career advice and
motivation to help you stay upto date on all things career.
Be sure to also visit mywebsite, careerriseorg, to book
a session with me and accessfree resources.
My goal is to help you clarifyyour goals, make a plan and feel
confident in your careerjourney.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Follow Career Confident Latina for your weekly
dose of career advice and myjourney as a first-gen Latina
counselor.
You can also send me a messageon mjcareerconfidencecom if you
want to book a career counselingsession.
I want to help grow yourconfidence as you reach your
career dreams.
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