February 25, 2025 • 59 mins
In this episode, we connect with our special guest, Nicole Samani, the founder of Next Step Admissions - an admission counseling service that aims to empower students to achieve their fullest potential in their educational journey. Nicole's journey from indecision at UCLA to founding her own educational counseling firm is nothing short of inspiring. With her strong foundation in counseling and over a decade of experience in higher education, she excels at building relationships with students and supports them in gaining admission to their desired programs. Nicole shares her expertise on the essential components of the med school application process, including the nuances of primary and secondary applications, timing the submissions strategically, and the vital role of interviews in finding the perfect fit.
Dive into the distinctions and similarities between Doctor of Osteopathy (DO) and Doctor of Medicine (MD) programs, and discover how aligning your application to these unique philosophies can significantly impact your acceptance chances. We unravel the myth of the "perfect" medical school candidate by discussing the importance of crafting a holistic application that goes beyond GPA and MCAT scores. From choosing the right experiences to writing compelling personal statements and gathering influential recommendation letters, find out what truly makes an applicant stand out.
Finally, prepare to conquer the medical school interview process with confidence. Gain valuable tips for navigating various interview formats, including traditional, multiple mini interviews (MMIs), and panel styles. Explore the significance of understanding open, closed, and partial file interviews and how they influence your preparation strategies. Whether you're just beginning your journey or contemplating a career shift into medicine, this episode provides the guidance and motivation you need to navigate the path to medical school with clarity and purpose.
Nicole Samani's Contact Information:
- Email: info@nextstepadmit.com
- Website: Next Step Admissions- nextstepadmit.com
- Instagram- @nextstepadmissionsprep
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.careerconfidence.online
Follow Us on IG!
- @ careerise_
- @ careerconfidentlatina
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-jos%C3%A9-hidalgo-flores/
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/akulikyan/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
your process and your timeline will be very different
from that of your peers, yourfriends, things of that sort.
So be very conscious of yourexperience, focus on your
pathway and note that all ittakes is one school.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You are listening to Coffee and Career Hour.
Welcome back everybody.
Thank you for joining us atCoffee and Career Hour.
We're super excited today.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, we have a.
Very well, it's still aroundValentine's Day season, right?
So we are gathered up with thegirls and having a good old
career conversation.
As always On this podcast, wetry to educate you as much as
the many things Armin and I doin our everyday lives and beyond
our work, but we also like tobring on special guests who are
(00:52):
experts in different areas ofthe world of work.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, and today we're excited to learn more from our
special guest, nicole Samani,who will give you a chance to
introduce yourself and let ouraudience know about your
background and all the expertisethat you have today.
So thank you for joining us,nicole, and we'll actually go
ahead and get started.
(01:17):
I'll ask you to pleaseintroduce yourself and share a
bit about your background andexperience working as a grad
school consultant.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
All right, amazing.
Thank you both for having mehere today.
I'm so excited to share a bitabout my background and to just
support anyone here that canbenefit from this episode and
all the information we'll besharing today.
I am Nicole Samani, I'm acollege counselor and I'm also
the founder of my own educationconsulting company, next Step
Admissions.
My journey into collegecounseling actually started at
(01:55):
UCLA.
When I transferred over to UCLA,I was actually really uncertain
about my career choice.
I felt incredibly lost as astudent there and I actually
ended up taking a careerplanning class and I did a bunch
of different assessments inthat career planning class and
everything pointed me in thedirection of different helping
(02:18):
professions, and collegecounseling was one that really
stood out to me and felt like itcould be a fit.
When I was a community collegestudent, I was always the one
like helping my friends plan outtheir classes and lay out next
steps in life and I was likewait a second, that aligns and
so does everything with thevalues behind it, the skills
(02:39):
that are needed.
So I spoke to my professor ofthe class and I asked what I
should do to pursue such apathway, and he shared that I
should apply for the UCLA CareerCenter Peer Advisor position
and apply to grad school.
Starting off I had no idea whatthe educational pathway was to
get me there, so I was veryhappy to have that direction and
(03:02):
have the experience at the UCLACareer Center.
Very happy to have thatdirection and have the
experience at the UCLA CareerCenter.
I think that was where I reallybuilt my foundational skills in
terms of just communicatingwith students and public
speaking, which has been so hugefor me in my professional
career, with doing workshops andwith just speaking to students
(03:22):
on a day-to-day basis.
So that experience at the UCLACareer Center was a big one for
me that I hold very close to myheart now.
And thereafter I ended upapplying to grad school.
I pursued my master's incounseling, specializing in
college counseling and studentservices at Cal State Northridge
.
I've been working in highereducation for over a decade now
(03:46):
and in that time I've had thepleasure of working as a
community college academiccounselor.
I've been able to teach in thecommunity college setting.
I've had the opportunity towork at another educational
consulting company helpingstudents apply to medical school
consulting company helpingstudents apply to medical school
(04:08):
, and now I am working with myown students as well as the
founder of Next Step Admissions.
So what got me there with thegrad school consulting was
taking on the role of creatingan admissions program for a med
school prep company.
With that process I was able tosupport hundreds of students.
I trained counselors andeditors to continue supporting
(04:30):
students in the same way and myexperience there really showed
me how I value theindividualized interactions with
students and wanting to helpthem really grow through the
process like watching thatconfidence development and
seeing them get to that finalgoal was really meaningful and
you know that really reminded meand got me to see that I love
(04:53):
the individualized process andworking with students on that
one-on-one basis.
So I decided to expand out intomy own company helping pre-meds
through the medical schoolapplication process, helping
high school students apply toundergrad and helping students
apply to other graduate programslike law school, pa school,
(05:13):
pharmacy school, things of thatsort, although my main emphasis
is the pre-med process and, as Imentioned, I love seeing the
growth and development andsuccess that comes with that
process and it's been incrediblymeaningful and I look forward
to sharing more about the medschool admissions process with
you all throughout the sessiontoday.
(05:35):
So that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
That was such a full circle moment for you.
There's so many things in yourstory that kind of come back to
the original time of when youstarted to work one-on-one with
students as a career advisor atthe UCLA Career Center, which is
so funny.
We keep bringing on people whohave been in that position and I
love that.
And now you are running yourown business where you get to
(06:00):
talk about one of our favoritetopics, which is graduate school
and leading students into thatprofessional world.
And knowing that your emphasishere is in medical school and
working with pre-med students,whether that's at a high school
age or when they're in collegeand getting ready for that next
step, can you give us a littlebit of an overview of the
admission process and whatapplicants should really kind of
(06:22):
expect?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Absolutely so.
Yeah, something to keep in mindabout the application process
is that it is a long one.
When students apply to medicalschool, it's around a year-long
process.
So, to start, I always tell mystudents to be very patient,
because you're going to wantanswers, you're going to want
updates, but it's a very longand oftentimes strenuous process
(06:48):
.
So patience is really a virtuethroughout this process, your
friends, things of that sort.
So be very conscious of yourexperience, focus on your
(07:08):
pathway and note that all ittakes is one school, one
acceptance, to build that careerand to become a physician.
And if you stay committed, stayfocused, it will happen.
It's just a matter of the howand the patience throughout the
process.
With that being said, the medschool application process has
different components.
So you'll find the primaryapplication, secondary
(07:31):
application, interviews,different letters that you can
send throughout the process aswell.
The primary application is themedical school application
that's going to go out to allmedical schools and that's going
to include things like yourpersonal information, academic
background, your grades, yourstats like your MCAT score.
(07:51):
Your personal statement will goin there.
Experience descriptions will goin there.
The different letter writers,your letter writers, will send
the letters in supplementally,but this is where you'll
identify who your letter writersare.
You'll have your school listselected here and for some
students you may be completingalternate essays like the other
(08:12):
impactful experiences essay thatwould fall within this
application as well.
For the primary application,this opens for submission in May
, and the sooner you submit, thesooner you'll be able to
progress through the cycle,because the med school
application process is rolling.
So obviously it's always betterto submit something perfect as
(08:42):
opposed to something that youknow may lack quality, but
submit it as early as possible,as close to that first date as
possible, to be able to getahead of the timeline.
Then, after the primaryapplication, will come secondary
applications.
These are going to be schoolspecific applications and
questions that you'll bereceiving from almost all
(09:06):
medical schools.
Most schools will not filterout before secondaries, so in
most cases, be ready to getthese applications from almost
every single medical schoolyou've applied to.
The essays can vary from likefour to five different short
answer essays to literally like10 one-page essays.
(09:26):
So be ready to dive into a lotof writing over the summer,
because that's the phase thatthis is going to come in.
And then again, timeline isvery important.
The sooner you submit for mostschools, the sooner they'll be
able to review your application.
Some schools, like top 20s,oftentimes don't have that same
(09:47):
rolling timeline, but in generalyou want to be getting things
in as early as possible.
Even for those top 20s If theysee you're submitting later,
oftentimes that doesn't helpyour application process.
So sooner the better, always.
Once you get your primaries andsecondaries in, you've kind of
(10:08):
gotten through the bulk of thatfirst part of what you need to
do and it becomes a waiting gameof schools reviewing your
application and deciding if theywant to invite you for an
interview.
That interview process willvary for each school and for
each student.
If you're applying to DOschools, you can start hearing
(10:29):
back early summer for interviews, all the way until like March
of the next year.
If you're applying to MDschools, usually that'll start
like very early fall and thatcan go out into around February.
But I have seen students getthose interviews later and that
can go out into around February,but I have seen students get
those interviews later.
So once your secondaries are init's going to be a bit of a
(10:51):
waiting game and this is thepart that takes a lot of
patience on the end of thestudent and where every
student's process is going tovary.
Again, all it takes is one.
So if you get that interview inOctober or February, all it
takes is one acceptance to makea difference in your career.
So patience is incrediblyimportant there.
But if you do find that you wantto do something and like you're
(11:13):
getting a little bit impatientwaiting, you can send a letter
of interest, which I usuallysend or suggest sending, in late
fall or early winter forschools that accept it, because
not every school accepts this.
So we'd want to check on that.
If the school accepts a letterof interest, this is your way of
basically letting the schoolknow that you're still
(11:35):
interested in applying and theseare the things on your
application that kind of alignwith their program and these are
the updates that you've hadsince applying.
So if you are submitting aletter of interest, you always
want to make sure that you haveupdates included in it.
We don't want to just reiteratewhat they have from the fall or
from the summer.
So that's where it's alsoimportant to constantly stay
(11:58):
updated with new experiences andnew grades, things like that,
depending on the phase thatyou're in in life when you apply
.
And lastly, after that interviewif you do opt for wanting to
verify with a certain schoolthat this is your absolute top
choice, then what you can do isrun through that interview, know
(12:22):
that that's your number oneschool and from there you can
send a letter of intent whichbasically lets the school know
that if you earn an acceptanceto that school you will attend.
We only suggest doing this forlike top, top, top choice
schools.
If you are looking intomultiple different schools and
you just want to kind of havethe best option possible and
(12:45):
you're open to differentopportunities, a letter of
intent isn't usually suggestedbecause you're kind of providing
a commitment to that medicalschool.
But that is something helpfulto just keep in the back pocket
if you either know you reallywant to go somewhere or you feel
really confident about like aninterview experience you had at
one school.
(13:06):
So yeah, that's kind of theentire process with interviews.
Keep in mind that at that pointthat's kind of like a fit check
when you make it to theinterview, like they like what
they've seen on paper and nowthey want to see if you'll be a
good fit for the school.
And on the other end, theinterview is also a chance for
you to determine if you will bea good, if the school will be a
(13:26):
good fit for you as well.
So allow yourself theopportunity to interview them
simultaneously, becausehopefully you will have choices
at the end of it.
But we want to make sure thatyou know you're going in
informed as you run through theprocess and know that a school
is a place that you would wantto end up at for the next few
years.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Wow, what a journey people have to take before
getting into medical school.
It's interesting there's a lotof similarities with law school
applications and one of thepre-law advisors at UCLA and
like the rolling admission andcertain things like that
committing to a school.
There are similarities with lawschool, but it's interesting
(14:08):
that this one starts in May.
Usually we see graduateapplications start in the fall,
right?
Yeah, I was surprised to hearthat the first primary
applications start in May, sohow long would you say, if
people are applying in May forprimary, by the time they do
secondary and then by therethere's a waiting period, but
(14:29):
then they get interviews?
When do people start to getadmitted?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So that's the part that varies significantly for
every single student and that'swhere the anxiety can kind of
start to peak as you comparewith peers.
You can start getting inanywhere from July through March
, so it varies significantlyfrom student to student.
For DO schools, that's the onethat you'll start seeing in July
(14:59):
, especially if you have a veryearly interview.
For MD schools, usually thoseacceptances will start rolling
in and around October.
So those will take a little bitmore time.
And then it's also going tovary school by school.
Some have a set turnaround time, of like within two to three
weeks they will get back to you,or they will at least let you
(15:20):
know if you're moving on to thenext batch of applicants that
they're going to review foracceptance, while others may
state we'll get back toeverybody in January or February
.
So you can start hearing backfor MD around October, for DO
around July, and that is rollingthrough the next few months of
(15:40):
the cycle.
And then there's also the caseof like you may hear from one
school in July or August and mayhear nothing until February of
the next year.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So it's like a two year process then.
So students when they'reapplying, let's say, let's take
2025.
If I start my application thisMay, ideally like, let's say,
all everything goes well atmid-instance, I wouldn't know
until next summer, next fall,and then I wouldn't start until
2027 fall, so you would start2026 fall.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So if we apply, let's say, may 2025, you will
matriculate by summer 2026 orearly fall 2026, depending on
that exact timeline, and thenthat's where your primary apps
will be submitted.
If you're applying 2025,somewhere around May, june or
(16:41):
July 2025, depending on howearly you are Secondaries you'll
start receiving them early Julyor beyond, depending on when
you submit your primary app.
And then, depending on how fastyou get those secondaries in
and when the schools review yourapplication, you will be
considered for interviews, whichDOs can start as early as July
(17:04):
2025, but MDs will probablystart closer to the end of
September 2025, rolling into2026.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Amazing.
Nicole.
Can you please clarify DOversus MD for our listeners too?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yes.
So these are both fantasticpaths toward medicine.
We are starting to see moresimilarities between the two.
One is considered a medicaldoctor degree, the other one is
considered a doctor ofosteopathy, but both as a basis
of holistic medicine and theyfocus a lot more on preventative
(17:49):
care and focus on treatment ofthe mind, body, soul.
So oftentimes if you arelooking at an osteopathic
physician, they may focus ontrying to solve a problem before
they see it.
So there's going to be a lotmore of a preventative route and
they may oftentimes takeassessment of, let's say, diet,
lifestyle, exercise,environmental factors, things
(18:12):
like that, in addition tomedication, to make adjustments
to your life that can lead tobetter medical outcomes in the
future for you.
While allopathic medicine,which is the MD route, focuses a
lot more on evidence-basedmedicine, so with that they're
oftentimes waiting to see thesymptoms come about and provide
(18:34):
treatment accordingly, andmedication is again used for
both.
But you'll see it a little bitmore commonly with the
allopathic route.
Both of them currently aretaking these routes.
Both routes currently arefocusing on the holistic
medicine approach a little bitmore in this day and age.
(18:57):
So you'll see a lot morecommonalities in the way that
the two practice, and you'llalso see that oftentimes, at the
end of the day, residencyprograms end up being the same
for these as well.
If you are looking atosteopathic medicine, many of
them do take the primary careroute.
That's not to say that youcan't specialize.
(19:18):
It can just be a little bitmore difficult to specialize
sometimes.
But if you're taking advantageof your medical school
experience and really pushingthrough that for different
research opportunities, clinicalrotations, things like that,
the specializing can occur withthat as well.
Also, when you're runningthrough the application, stats
(19:39):
for DOs are a little bit lowerthan the stats for MDs.
If you're applying to both MDand DO schools, we do suggest
having exposure to both so thatyou can identify the two
pathways and your personalstatements can be tailored to
both of them.
And then one last thing with DOis they have like osteopathic
(20:01):
manipulative medicine as ameasure of uh, as a method of
treatment, which isn't going tobe very common outside of
osteopathic medicine.
They're really the only onesthat can do that, so that's
something to note as wellamazing.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it sounds like it's the philosophy.
Ultimately, both pathways allowyou to become a doctor and
practice and help people healand improve their lives, but
it's the philosophy that youwork around which is super
important.
I think in any kind of graduateprogram that students are
applying to, right to thinkabout what is the philosophy
that I'm going to be operatingwith, because the classes, the
(20:41):
theories, the way that you'mgoing to be operating with,
because the classes, thetheories, the way that you're
going to be learning in thatprogram is all going to be run
by that foundational philosophy.
So I think it's reallyimportant to kind of think about
that and be intentional whenyou're applying or choosing
programs to apply to.
Can you please talk a littlebit about the common mistakes
(21:04):
that UC applicants make whenapplying to medical school?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yes.
So mistakes happen veryfrequently in the application
process just because, as wediscussed right now, you see how
many different moving partsthere are and it can be
incredibly difficult to focus onall different aspects of the
application.
I think one of the simplestmistakes is the timeline and not
(21:34):
applying early or submittingmuch later following application
deadlines.
I think early submission is theeasiest way to get the
application cycle working inyour favor, and submitting late
or holding off on submissions ofeither primary app or secondary
(21:54):
, or waiting for your letterwriters to submit much later in
the cycle, can all impact yourprocess.
So I think seeing a deadline,like when you apply to college
if you apply on the day apps aredue, you're totally fine in
most cases, but when you'reapplying to medical school, you
don't want to wait until the end.
You want to submit as early aspossible.
(22:15):
So application opening dateversus deadline is one of those
misconceptions that students cansometimes fall into and you
want to make sure that you aregetting ahead of the timeline.
I think another one is focusingon their stats, awards and
accolades and achievements.
Stats are a great entry pointwith your application, but
(22:37):
medical schools want to know whoyou are and I think that's a
really big difference fromeverything that's gone on
academically to get into collegeand things like that, or even
getting certain experiences whenyou're a college student.
Starting off the academics areone of the things that come up
most frequently.
You're seeing what awardsyou've gotten, what achievements
(22:58):
you've gotten.
But with the app, while that'sincredibly important as a
gateway entrance point, theywant to know who you are, what
skill sets you possess, howyou're going to contribute to
the medical school, how you'regoing to contribute to the
medical community down the line.
And that comes from becomingpersonal and feeling a lot more
(23:18):
transparent and open with theapplication process.
So I think that's anothercommon misconception is focusing
on, like the stats and awardsand achievements and as opposed
to allowing the committee to seewho you are as an individual.
And lastly, I would say anothermisconception or another common
mistake is not applying toenough medical schools, so
(23:43):
keeping the list really minimal.
Oftentimes you'll see studentsfrom a certain city that want to
try to stay in that city andmay only apply to like five
medical schools, which sometimesthat works out really well,
which is awesome, but you wantto do whatever you can to keep
the cycle in your favor.
So my preferred suggestionthere is applying to a minimum
(24:06):
of 15 medical schools, ideally20.
Of course, your stats make adifference.
If your stats are at a higherpoint, like I'm comfortable with
that 15.
If your stats have a little bitmore variability, then that's
where we may want to look closerto 30 or something like that.
And I always suggest acombination of in-state,
(24:28):
out-of-state schools, privateschools, public schools, so that
you're doing whatever you canto increase your odds and then
also applying to the rightschools, because some may have
preferences for in-state orout-of-state or certain
experiences or populations theywant to see that you've worked
with.
So making sure that while wewant a broad school list, we
(24:49):
also want to make sure that theschool list includes schools
that would actually consider you.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
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Now let's get back to our show.
I don't think I've ever heardanyone say like 15 to 30 schools
.
That's wild.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I think the national average is currently at 16.
And I always like to be alittle bit above that.
But yes, that's where that highnumber kind of starts.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Wow, yeah, because students will ask us all the
time you know what is?
How many schools should I applyto?
It's very different for othertypes of graduate programs,
right.
Even for law school or generalother grad programs, we
definitely have a lower rangethan 15, 16 that we recommend.
Also, because every applicationis so tailored to the program,
(27:24):
right, and you do have to bereally thoughtful in your
applications and we want to makesure our clients and students
know that it's not just going tobe you write, you do one set of
application and submit to allthese programs.
You have to be very intentionaland tailored.
But with medical school, itsounds like it's important to be
above the 15 range just becauseyou have to increase your odds
(27:49):
and it's super competitive.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Absolutely yes.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, and with that, having knowing that each school
is going to ask for a secondaryapplication and that means that
this person who is applying hasto have, like straight, solid
time management skillsthroughout the summer in the
application cycle, what have youseen that works with you know,
many times students who arecompleting their college
(28:15):
programs are still applying tomedical school.
So how do you see that your,your clients, really balance
these high number ofapplications and questions and
being personal with theireveryday life?
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think one of the benefits ofthe application timeline is that
if you are a student, it kindof falls into the beginning of
your summer.
So I always work with mystudents to kind of gauge their
summer coursework or summer workexperiences to try to keep the
first half of summer a littlebit lighter in terms of academic
(28:51):
load or career responsibilities.
If they are not able to modifythat, then usually I also
encourage significantconversations with family and
friends, kind of letting themknow that the summer is going to
be their time to be focused oncommitments regarding the
application process.
So I've had a lot of studentsthat had either moved family
(29:14):
vacations or had to miss certainopportunities to be able to
allow for time for this process,opportunities to be able to
allow for time for this process.
It is a really large commitmentand that's where I really
suggest pre-writing secondaries.
So once you submit your primaryapplication, or if you're even
ahead of the game and yourprimary is done earlier, start
(29:37):
preparing those secondary essaysearly on.
There is access to past promptswhich can absolutely help you.
Or you can even start withwriting drafts for the most
common secondaries and thentailor that as the schools come
in Just because once you startreceiving secondaries, within
two weeks you can receivesecondaries from almost every
(30:01):
school and that can be a couplehundred pages of writing and
it's incredibly strenuous andexhausting.
So that's where the earlierprocess of submitting your
primary app until the time youstart getting secondaries is the
time that I think you shouldreally take advantage of as a
student with pre-writing,because deadlines haven't hit
(30:24):
yet and you can kind ofmanipulate the process a little
bit more in that way.
I had a student last cycle andwe met multiple times every
single week and I just saw hishair growing a little more and a
little more and a little moreand he's like a little more and
a little more and a little moreand he's like I have not left
(30:45):
the house in six weeks by theend of it.
But he got interviews tomultiple top 10 schools and the
result paid off.
So I think it's just keeping inmind what can come at the end
of it.
That discipline can be reallyexhausting.
It can you know?
You submit your primaryapplication and you feel like
you're done.
You feel like you've done thehard work, but that next month
(31:07):
or so is really when the bulk ofit begins because of the fast
turnaround times andindividualized process, so
altering commitments to whatevercapacity that you can.
If you're able to opt out of asummer course or no summer
course the first half of summerand pick something up the second
half, that would be great.
(31:28):
If there's a way to navigateyour work experience to do
part-time work over the summer,that would be amazing as well.
If not, make sure you're takingadvantage of evenings and
weekends and have thosedifficult conversations with
family and friends.
Of course it's important tostill take care of yourself in
the process, because we don'twant you to crash or burn out
and you know self-care androutine here and there is
(31:50):
important.
If you go to the gym, if youenjoy hiking, if you enjoy
cooking, if there's like adinner that you want to do here
and there, absolutely like,continue having a little bit of
normalcy to take care ofyourself.
But it is something thatinvolves a significant
commitment for those couple ofmonths.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, that sounds really intense for the first
couple months of the applicationprocess, going back to the
beginning stages of what thatmay look like.
This process and thisdedication really does start
kind of at the beginning ofone's decision to want to pursue
this type of field, and for uswe see a lot of individuals who
are, you know, focused on theirGPA when to take different
(32:35):
entrance exams.
So can you tell us, can youtalk a little bit more about how
your GPA and MCAT scores arecompared to other parts of the
application, like theextracurriculars and personal
statement?
What does that look like?
And then a little bit of afollow up is if you're someone
who graduates college and thenwants to pursue medical medical
(32:56):
school down the line in a fewyears, what does that mean, what
?
What might that look like forsomeone as well line in a few?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
years.
What does that mean?
What might that look like forsomeone as well?
Yes, so stats are an incrediblyimportant part of the
application process in terms ofopening the door and having
schools wanting to learn moreabout you upfront.
So I always say like, if youhave great stats, that can be a
way to open doors for schools,to make them want to learn more
(33:24):
about you and really dive intothe personal statement and
experiences.
Unfortunately, if the statsaren't solid, that can be a
factor that can impact yourschool list.
So that's where we'd want tohave a more extensive
conversation regarding theapplication process based on
(33:45):
stats that are there.
So higher GPA, higher MCATscore, more doors will open up
front for you.
However, once the stats arethere, the application itself is
what matters most.
The rest of the application iswhat's going to tell the story
of who you are.
It's going to show who you areas a holistic applicant and your
ability to contribute to theschool and the field of medicine
(34:08):
overall.
The stats can oftentimes showyour academic confidence, your
academic competence and yourscientific inquiry, but your
passion for the field, yourcommunication skills,
problem-solving skills,leadership, initiative, teamwork
, bedside manner all that comesfrom your experiences and
(34:28):
personal statement.
So again, stats can serve asthat medical school.
If a school is considering astudent with your stats, they're
probably considering many otherstudents with similar stats as
well.
So what's going to set youapart from the numbers?
(34:51):
And that's where everythingelse comes in.
So stats are important, but Ithink now more than ever, being
a holistic applicant matterseven more In terms of stats.
You want to have your prereqsdone, or as close to done as
possible, as early as you can inthe process.
(35:13):
If you have all your prereqsdone by the time you submit your
primary application, then medschools will be able to see that
as a way to gauge your abilityto succeed academically in those
classes.
If you have a couple prereqsleft over, that's okay.
You just want to kind of keepthis in mind as your own
baseline and also, if you haveyour prereqs done earlier on,
(35:34):
that's going to support you withthe MCAT, because the content
for the MCAT oftentimes overlapswith what you'll be learning in
the courses.
So the sooner you pursue thosecourses, the easier your MCAT
prep process will be.
For a student that's taken a fewyears off, there are a few
different recommendationsDepending on how many years have
(35:58):
been off and how you performedin the undergraduate setting and
what you've done sincegraduating.
One route is you may not needto repeat classes.
Some schools have prereqdeadlines, others do not, and,
like I've worked with studentsthat ended up like pursuing PhDs
or master's programs in otherfields in the sciences and they
(36:21):
didn't need to repeat theprereqs because they were
already in the field in some wayor had continuous science
coursework.
But if you haven't taken anyscience coursework or you're a
complete career changer, that iswhere you're going to want to
do a little bit of an academicexploration process, going to
(36:44):
want to do a little bit of anacademic exploration process.
Postbacs and master's programsare great ways to get the
coursework in and this will bein specific settings where other
students will be alongside ofyou running through the same
process and you'll also haveadvisors as a part of the
process that can write lettersfor you and help guide you in
whatever way to make sure thatyou're running through the
(37:05):
courses as efficiently andtimely as possible.
However, I do also note thatthose programs can sometimes be
costly, so students may also optfor, like DIY postbacs that
they'll do independently at alocal community college and
complete those prereqs in thatway and then also keeping in
(37:26):
mind potentially specializedmaster's programs that have
connections with medical schools, so that can also boost your
chances of actually getting intothe medical school if you
pursue one of those, becauseoftentimes if you have a certain
GPA and MCAT score andcompleted the courses in that
program with like a B or better,let's say, they will give you a
(37:48):
guaranteed interview and inthose programs oftentimes you
will be doing your first yearwith the medical students.
So that also allows the schoolto see that you're able to
handle the load a little bitmore comprehensively as well.
So you're kind of alreadygetting a foot in in many cases.
So that's, those are thedifferent routes that I would
(38:09):
consider.
If a student has taken sometime off, and also if you've
taken time off, make sure thatyou're obtaining experiences in
the field.
I know a lot of times peoplemay take time off, pursue other
commitments, may have otherresponsibilities to support
family, things like that, butmake sure that you're able to
ultimately show medical schoolswhy you're pursuing a career in
(38:30):
medicine and that's going tocome with relevant experience.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I love that you talked about that.
There are always opportunitiesto pursue this pathway, even if
maybe you didn't start at ayounger age.
And I think in the work that weall three of us do, we see
oftentimes a lot of students whoare so focused on.
I need to figure this out rightnow, because it's almost as if
(39:00):
those doors aren't going to beopen later on and that's not
true.
And that's the same that goesfor any other graduate program.
When I work with my pre-lawstudents, I talk about the same
thing.
I always say law school willalways be there.
Same goes here.
Med school will always be there.
Right?
So let's say you don't realizethat this is your passion early
(39:20):
on in life, it doesn't mean thatyou can't get there.
Sure, it'll take a little bitlonger or there might be a few
extra steps, because now youhave to, you know, do a post-bac
program, get your prerequisitesin and maybe get more
experience in the field.
No problem, if you realize thatthis is your passion later on,
you can still reach this pathway.
(39:42):
So I love that the messaging isvery similar around med school
as it is for other graduateprograms, and you talked a
little bit about people being aholistic applicant, which is so,
so true.
Because, again, students get sofixated on stats, gpa, mcat
scores and their grades andtranscripts.
(40:05):
And, yes, those are important,but you have to be able to talk
about why you want to go intothis field, why you would be a
good candidate for a program,but also why you would be great
in this industry once you'repracticing right.
So can you talk a little bitabout how students can approach
both their essays as well astheir recommendation letters and
(40:28):
just the rest of theapplication process with the
mindset of being more holistic?
How much emphasis should theyput on other things besides
their statistics?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yes, absolutely so, with the personal statement and
what comes out in secondaries,other essays and even letters.
I always suggest gettingpersonal, and that's a very
different experience forstudents, because when you're in
college, most essays are veryacademic or providing
(41:02):
perspectives with evidencebehind it, and this is the first
time in a long time wherestudents are probably going to
be running through this processof actually sharing personal
information about themselves,and so I always share with my
students that you want to allowthe committee to see who you are
(41:23):
as an individual and sharestories that are unique to you,
always include anecdotes thatare tailored, specific and allow
us to understand exactly whyyou're pursuing a career in
medicine and, as mentioned, yourpassion for the field and the
different skills you possessthat will make you a good
(41:44):
physician at the end of the day.
This is going to involve a lotof reflection through your
different experiences, and theymay not even be medically
related experiences.
It may be something thathappened in your childhood.
It may be, you know, gettinginjured as a kid and realizing
you didn't have health insuranceand how that impacted your
(42:06):
treatment.
Or it may even be an experiencethat you had with a provider
that treated a family member orsomeone that you shadowed that
ended up impacting you.
So every student's journey isgoing to be different.
Every student's story is goingto be different, but personal is
what's going to make thedifference, and details that
allow us to see who you are andwhere that commitment came in.
(42:30):
Don't be afraid to showcollaboration, to show teamwork.
You can even bring inexperiences like TA
opportunities or leadershippositions you held in, like a
research setting or clinicalsetting.
This is also a place to allowyour unique experiences to shine
.
So if you founded a programthat isn't really common, or
(42:52):
supported an underservedpopulation in some way, this is
where you highlight it, becausethis is what's going to set you
apart from other students.
Something I share with mystudents is, if I cover all
personal pronouns in yourpersonal statement, will this be
a statement that's onlyrelevant to you?
If so, good, that's a personalessay.
(43:15):
If not, we'll run through itagain and see any parts of it
that can be tailored a littlebit more so that we can ensure
that it's unique to you.
So always keep in mindanecdotes are incredibly
important.
It's going to be very helpful inallowing you to identify how
(43:35):
you've grown throughout yourprocess as well, and when it
comes to your letters, I thinkthe same thing applies.
You want to make sure thatyou're getting letter writers
that know you and can speak onthe different experiences that
you've had in settings with them.
If it's a professor, we want tomake sure that it's a professor
(43:56):
that knows you, as opposed to aclass where maybe you went in
every day, got your A but didn'tcommunicate with the professor
at all independently, or withthe peers grade or even
(44:23):
participated in a project thatthe professor now uses as an
example for their class, or hada collaborative opportunity in a
discussion section that gotthem to see your understanding
of the subject area and allowedthem to see how you can support
your peers.
Those are more uniqueopportunities to showcase that
skill set that you have and willallow your letter writers to
also identify that as well.
(44:43):
And I think the same thingcomes in with clinical letters,
research letters, communityinvolvement letters, leadership
letters.
The more your letter writerknows about you, the better the
letter will be, and the moreskill sets they can identify
about you, the more likely acommittee will take that letter
with higher regard.
(45:04):
So always make sure that withyour letter writers you're
finding people that know you andI always suggest to my students
like write down stories andexamples for your letter writer
to reference, so that they canalso tie that into the letter
and showcase the skills.
Because they work with a lot ofstudents, they may not always
remember exactly what you did,so give them that little
(45:26):
refresher as well and advocatefor yourself.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Absolutely Getting personal sounds like it's one of
the key parts to yoursecondaries.
As you're filling out all ofthose applications, we can say
that you know, for someindividuals writing can come a
little bit easier than forothers, but where we see a lot
of the time individuals kind ofstruggle is in the interview
process Now bringing what's inthose documents in that
(45:53):
application to life so you cansee that I am the person that
you were just reading about.
I am that person that you knowserved that underserved
community or did this type ofwork, or these are the examples
that I have to bring.
Can you walk us through alittle bit what happens during a
medical school interview,knowing how they're screened
kind of through theirsecondaries and how applicants
(46:14):
can really best prepare?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Absolutely so.
If you make it to the interviewphase, give yourself credit,
because that is a huge step toachieve and many students forget
that.
They're so focused on thatfinal outcome of getting the
acceptance.
But if you make it to theinterview, that is huge.
That means that the medicalschools like everything that
(46:39):
they've seen on paper and theywant to meet you and consider
having you as a student.
So take a moment, give yourselfcredit, pat yourself on the
back, because you do deservethat in that moment.
Getting an interview is areally big deal.
With that being said, there aredifferent types of interviews
and when it comes to preparingfor interviews, I always suggest
(47:03):
mock interviews as the toppointer, because the best way to
perfect your interview processis by practicing.
That's a way to build yourconfidence and this is the phase
, honestly, that I love the most, because this is where I see my
students transform the most andbuild confidence in themselves
(47:24):
and why they're a fit for acertain medical school.
So keep in mind there aredifferent types of interviews.
Interview day itself caninvolve a campus tour if it's in
person, which we've seen ashift away from that since COVID
but they can provide campustours.
You may have a session with thedean or current faculty
(47:49):
providing a little bit ofinformation on the medical
school.
There may be an info session ora meet and greet with current
medical students, whichoftentimes occurs either
virtually or in person,depending on the setting of the
interview.
A lot of my students findsignificant benefit to those
student sessions because that'swhere they really get an idea of
(48:12):
the culture of the campus andthe community, both in terms of
the faculty engagement and theway students may support one
another.
So if that's even an optionalsession, I always say go,
because I know earlier we spokeabout making sure the school is
a fit for you as well, andthat's a big thing.
(48:33):
That comes with the interviewprocess and allowing you to
communicate with existingstudents is a way to see whether
you want to go there.
So that's kind of like thelogistical side.
Then we have the interviewtypes, which can be a
traditional interview, amultiple mini interview, a group
interview, a panel interview,and each of these interviews you
(48:54):
will be the focus.
Obviously You'll be answeringthe bulk of the questions.
You will be the focus.
Obviously You'll be answeringthe bulk of the questions.
A traditional interview willtypically have you with one
interviewer running throughstandard questions.
They may ask questions relatedto your experiences as well, or
questions where you're able toidentify different skillsets.
So, going into the interviewprocess, I always suggest
(49:16):
reviewing your application.
Make sure you know what youwrote in your primary app and in
your secondaries and why youwant to go to this school.
Do your research on the programand I always suggest running
through your experiences againand noting down stories that you
can think of that can come upin interview questions.
(49:38):
If they ask you about achallenging time in an
experience, if they ask youabout a leadership position, if
they ask about a time where youdidn't get what you want in a
research opportunity, a timewhere you had a challenge with a
colleague, a time where yousucceeded or took initiative,
prepare examples of thesedifferent skill sets and these
(50:00):
different types of questions sothat, if it comes up, you're
ready to go and if it doesn'tand you get something else, if
you've already prepared to thiscapacity, it's going to be
easier for you to run throughyour arsenal of different
experiences and differentanswers to then be able to think
on the spot and identifysomething unique.
(50:21):
But yes, traditional questionswill oftentimes have standard
questions that you'll see, tellme about yourself why medicine,
why this school?
And again different questionsto learn about experiences and
skill sets you possess.
The MMI is very unique tomedical school applications.
This is a multiple miniinterview and usually they will
(50:46):
give you a very specificscenario unrelated to anything
in your application and they'llgive you a couple minutes to
prepare to answer the question.
A lot of these questions willhave moral and ethical reasoning
included in them.
So with that, I would suggestidentify different moral and
(51:07):
ethical issues that could berelevant to the field or just
going on in the world in thecurrent day, so that you can
include that in your answer ForMMI.
I always tell my students thatthey're trying to understand
your critical thinking, yourthought process, your logic.
So this is a good place tothink aloud because that allows
(51:28):
them to see how you get to afinal outcome.
If they ask you a question.
This is a consolidated version.
But if they ask you somethinglike you're on the road driving
to work and you see a caraccident, 10 cars ahead of you,
would you get out of the car tohelp or not?
The more information you givethem, the more they're able to
(51:52):
see your thought process inidentifying what the best way is
to navigate such a scenario.
So that's going to be a littlebit about the MMI.
Group and panel interviews areseen as well.
They're not as common, but thegroup interview is where you
will be a student amongst othermedical school applicants.
(52:12):
You may get the same questions.
You may get different questions.
They may even have youparticipate in an activity with
the peers and then a panelinterview will be you along with
multiple interviewers on theother side, each asking you
different questions.
One other distinction with theapplication process is some may
(52:33):
be open file, some may be closedfile and some may be partial
for the interview, which is adifference in how much access
they have to your applicationfor the interview, which is a
difference in how much accessthey have to your application.
An open file means they seeeverything.
So if you are an applicant witha lower MCAT score or lower GPA
and your interview is open file,make sure you're also prepared
(52:53):
to talk about any low grades orperformance on the MCAT.
If it's partial, file with that, they usually have access to
your experiences and personalstatement.
So if you again have lowerstats now, you're in luck,
because that's probably notgoing to come up, they're going
to focus more on the experiencesand personal statement.
(53:15):
And then closed file means theyknow nothing, they've seen
nothing about your application.
So those distinctions are alsoreally helpful for you to keep
in mind as a student, in termsof how much you're reflecting on
past experiences, and then alsowhat they may ask, because if
it's an open file, they alreadyhave the basis of everything
you've already done.
So they may ask you to talk alittle bit more about a certain
(53:38):
clinical experience or a certainresearch experience, while if
it's closed file they knownothing.
So you're going to have to kindof give a basis of what's
occurred and go back to thebasics.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Wow.
The interview itself soundsalso very all-encompassing,
right.
There's so many differentcomponents to it.
I hadn't even heard of openfile versus closed file.
So it's cool to see that thereare these different variations
and for the student to know,like you said, how much to
prepare, whether they're goingto have to give all the basics
(54:15):
of all their experiences in theinterview or if they know that
it's going to kind of be moretargeted towards particular
experiences because theinterviewers are seeing their
entire file.
I think that's something veryunique to med school and really
cool to know that students getthese different options.
But what a process, right.
(54:36):
It definitely is something thatyou know you have to be very
intentional about and dedicate alot of time, effort and energy.
But I love what you said in thebeginning that it only takes
one school to get you to thisgoal statement, because, yeah,
(55:01):
if people are applying to 15 to20 schools, I know sometimes
students also get caught up inthe.
You know I want to have mybackups, but if I get into one,
I still want to get into thisother one.
That's like my dream school,and sometimes even getting into
one doesn't make them feel likethey're good enough, but that's
ultimately.
It only takes one school.
You know, yes, it would beideal if everyone got into their
dream schools, but at the endof the day, you're still going
(55:23):
to become a doctor, you're stillgoing to be able to practice
and help people heal and andimprove their lives.
So it only takes one school.
I'm going to stick with that.
I love that.
Thank you so much, nicole.
Can you give us one final, anyfinal advice that you have for
applicants who are applying tomed school?
Just through your expertise?
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yes, ooh, that is a tough one.
As you've seen, it's a verycomprehensive process, so there
are logistical points ofguidance that I can provide.
But I'm going to take adifferent approach and identify
having grace with yourselfthroughout the process Because,
(56:07):
as we discussed, there are somany different moving parts and
it can get really easy to getcaught up in that.
But remember how far you'vecome.
You are applying to medicalschool and that has taken so
many hours of commitment, somany experiences.
You've pursued so manydifficult courses, a lot of
(56:29):
reflection beyond what you'veprobably done in years.
And note that that takes a lotof courage, it takes a lot of
strength and you deserve to havegrace with yourself through
this process because it's adifficult one, but the outcome
will be worth it.
And keep that in mind as you runthrough every step of the
(56:52):
medical school applicationprocess.
You finish one step, anotherone comes at you right away.
But take a moment, have grace.
Remember you just submittedyour primary.
That deserves some credit.
You just submitted yoursecondaries.
You're waiting for interviews,but you did it.
And keep each one of those winsin mind, because that is a huge
(57:16):
point of success in itself.
And having grace with yourself.
Having that confidence andbeing your biggest advocate is
what's going to get you to thatfinish line.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
I love that, having grace with yourself throughout
this process.
I think for anyone out there,our end goals look so far right.
They look so far away, andthere's all these challenges and
bumps we can anticipate in theroad, but every time you get
closer you take one step.
I love celebrating each onealong the way.
Thank you so much, nicole, foryour conversation and for
(57:51):
individuals who are curiousabout wanting to apply to
medical school or any of theprofessional graduate programs
that you support with, where canthey reach out to you?
Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yes, absolutely so.
They can find me on socialmedia.
The social media handle is NextStep Admissions Prep.
They can also find me on mywebsite, nextstepadmitcom
(58:25):
admitcom.
Or you can also send me anemail at Nicole at next step
admitcom and I will be happy toanswer and provide support in
any way that I can.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Thank you so much, nicole.
We'll put all of these in ourshow notes as well for anybody
listening to have easy access toNicole's contact information,
but we do definitely encourageanyone out there who's thinking
about applying to medical schoolor any other type of graduate
program.
Nicole is obviously an expert,has a lot of experience and a
(58:51):
lot of knowledge and reallygreat advice to share, so make
sure that you are usingresources that are available to
you and reaching out to folkswho can support you in this
process.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you enjoy our show, we askthat you write a review on Apple
Podcasts to help us reach morepeople looking to level up their
(59:11):
career Want to connect with us.
Speaker 3 (59:13):
Be sure to follow our Instagram and websites.
Speaker 2 (59:16):
Follow Career Rise on Instagram for career advice and
motivation to help you stay upto date on all things career.
Be sure to also visit mywebsite, careerriseorg, to book
a session with me and accessfree resources.
My goal is to help you clarifyyour goals, make a plan and feel
confident in your careerjourney.
Speaker 3 (59:36):
Follow Career Confident Latina for your weekly
dose of career advice and myjourney as a first Confident
Latina for your weekly dose ofcareer advice and my journey as
a first-gen Latina counselor.
You can also send me a messageon mjcareerconfidencecom if you
want to book a career counselingsession.
I want to help grow yourconfidence as you reach your
career dreams.
your process and your timeline will be very different
from that of your peers, yourfriends, things of that sort.
So be very conscious of yourexperience, focus on your
pathway and note that all ittakes is one school.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You are listening to Coffee and Career Hour.
Welcome back everybody.
Thank you for joining us atCoffee and Career Hour.
We're super excited today.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, we have a.
Very well, it's still aroundValentine's Day season, right?
So we are gathered up with thegirls and having a good old
career conversation.
As always On this podcast, wetry to educate you as much as
the many things Armin and I doin our everyday lives and beyond
our work, but we also like tobring on special guests who are
(00:52):
experts in different areas ofthe world of work.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, and today we're excited to learn more from our
special guest, nicole Samani,who will give you a chance to
introduce yourself and let ouraudience know about your
background and all the expertisethat you have today.
So thank you for joining us,nicole, and we'll actually go
ahead and get started.
(01:17):
I'll ask you to pleaseintroduce yourself and share a
bit about your background andexperience working as a grad
school consultant.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
All right, amazing.
Thank you both for having mehere today.
I'm so excited to share a bitabout my background and to just
support anyone here that canbenefit from this episode and
all the information we'll besharing today.
I am Nicole Samani, I'm acollege counselor and I'm also
the founder of my own educationconsulting company, next Step
Admissions.
My journey into collegecounseling actually started at
(01:55):
UCLA.
When I transferred over to UCLA,I was actually really uncertain
about my career choice.
I felt incredibly lost as astudent there and I actually
ended up taking a careerplanning class and I did a bunch
of different assessments inthat career planning class and
everything pointed me in thedirection of different helping
(02:18):
professions, and collegecounseling was one that really
stood out to me and felt like itcould be a fit.
When I was a community collegestudent, I was always the one
like helping my friends plan outtheir classes and lay out next
steps in life and I was likewait a second, that aligns and
so does everything with thevalues behind it, the skills
(02:39):
that are needed.
So I spoke to my professor ofthe class and I asked what I
should do to pursue such apathway, and he shared that I
should apply for the UCLA CareerCenter Peer Advisor position
and apply to grad school.
Starting off I had no idea whatthe educational pathway was to
get me there, so I was veryhappy to have that direction and
(03:02):
have the experience at the UCLACareer Center.
Very happy to have thatdirection and have the
experience at the UCLA CareerCenter.
I think that was where I reallybuilt my foundational skills in
terms of just communicatingwith students and public
speaking, which has been so hugefor me in my professional
career, with doing workshops andwith just speaking to students
(03:22):
on a day-to-day basis.
So that experience at the UCLACareer Center was a big one for
me that I hold very close to myheart now.
And thereafter I ended upapplying to grad school.
I pursued my master's incounseling, specializing in
college counseling and studentservices at Cal State Northridge
.
I've been working in highereducation for over a decade now
(03:46):
and in that time I've had thepleasure of working as a
community college academiccounselor.
I've been able to teach in thecommunity college setting.
I've had the opportunity towork at another educational
consulting company helpingstudents apply to medical school
consulting company helpingstudents apply to medical school
(04:08):
, and now I am working with myown students as well as the
founder of Next Step Admissions.
So what got me there with thegrad school consulting was
taking on the role of creatingan admissions program for a med
school prep company.
With that process I was able tosupport hundreds of students.
I trained counselors andeditors to continue supporting
(04:30):
students in the same way and myexperience there really showed
me how I value theindividualized interactions with
students and wanting to helpthem really grow through the
process like watching thatconfidence development and
seeing them get to that finalgoal was really meaningful and
you know that really reminded meand got me to see that I love
(04:53):
the individualized process andworking with students on that
one-on-one basis.
So I decided to expand out intomy own company helping pre-meds
through the medical schoolapplication process, helping
high school students apply toundergrad and helping students
apply to other graduate programslike law school, pa school,
(05:13):
pharmacy school, things of thatsort, although my main emphasis
is the pre-med process and, as Imentioned, I love seeing the
growth and development andsuccess that comes with that
process and it's been incrediblymeaningful and I look forward
to sharing more about the medschool admissions process with
you all throughout the sessiontoday.
(05:35):
So that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
That was such a full circle moment for you.
There's so many things in yourstory that kind of come back to
the original time of when youstarted to work one-on-one with
students as a career advisor atthe UCLA Career Center, which is
so funny.
We keep bringing on people whohave been in that position and I
love that.
And now you are running yourown business where you get to
(06:00):
talk about one of our favoritetopics, which is graduate school
and leading students into thatprofessional world.
And knowing that your emphasishere is in medical school and
working with pre-med students,whether that's at a high school
age or when they're in collegeand getting ready for that next
step, can you give us a littlebit of an overview of the
admission process and whatapplicants should really kind of
(06:22):
expect?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Absolutely so.
Yeah, something to keep in mindabout the application process
is that it is a long one.
When students apply to medicalschool, it's around a year-long
process.
So, to start, I always tell mystudents to be very patient,
because you're going to wantanswers, you're going to want
updates, but it's a very longand oftentimes strenuous process
(06:48):
.
So patience is really a virtuethroughout this process, your
friends, things of that sort.
So be very conscious of yourexperience, focus on your
(07:08):
pathway and note that all ittakes is one school, one
acceptance, to build that careerand to become a physician.
And if you stay committed, stayfocused, it will happen.
It's just a matter of the howand the patience throughout the
process.
With that being said, the medschool application process has
different components.
So you'll find the primaryapplication, secondary
(07:31):
application, interviews,different letters that you can
send throughout the process aswell.
The primary application is themedical school application
that's going to go out to allmedical schools and that's going
to include things like yourpersonal information, academic
background, your grades, yourstats like your MCAT score.
(07:51):
Your personal statement will goin there.
Experience descriptions will goin there.
The different letter writers,your letter writers, will send
the letters in supplementally,but this is where you'll
identify who your letter writersare.
You'll have your school listselected here and for some
students you may be completingalternate essays like the other
(08:12):
impactful experiences essay thatwould fall within this
application as well.
For the primary application,this opens for submission in May
, and the sooner you submit, thesooner you'll be able to
progress through the cycle,because the med school
application process is rolling.
So obviously it's always betterto submit something perfect as
(08:42):
opposed to something that youknow may lack quality, but
submit it as early as possible,as close to that first date as
possible, to be able to getahead of the timeline.
Then, after the primaryapplication, will come secondary
applications.
These are going to be schoolspecific applications and
questions that you'll bereceiving from almost all
(09:06):
medical schools.
Most schools will not filterout before secondaries, so in
most cases, be ready to getthese applications from almost
every single medical schoolyou've applied to.
The essays can vary from likefour to five different short
answer essays to literally like10 one-page essays.
(09:26):
So be ready to dive into a lotof writing over the summer,
because that's the phase thatthis is going to come in.
And then again, timeline isvery important.
The sooner you submit for mostschools, the sooner they'll be
able to review your application.
Some schools, like top 20s,oftentimes don't have that same
(09:47):
rolling timeline, but in generalyou want to be getting things
in as early as possible.
Even for those top 20s If theysee you're submitting later,
oftentimes that doesn't helpyour application process.
So sooner the better, always.
Once you get your primaries andsecondaries in, you've kind of
(10:08):
gotten through the bulk of thatfirst part of what you need to
do and it becomes a waiting gameof schools reviewing your
application and deciding if theywant to invite you for an
interview.
That interview process willvary for each school and for
each student.
If you're applying to DOschools, you can start hearing
(10:29):
back early summer for interviews, all the way until like March
of the next year.
If you're applying to MDschools, usually that'll start
like very early fall and thatcan go out into around February.
But I have seen students getthose interviews later and that
can go out into around February,but I have seen students get
those interviews later.
So once your secondaries are init's going to be a bit of a
(10:51):
waiting game and this is thepart that takes a lot of
patience on the end of thestudent and where every
student's process is going tovary.
Again, all it takes is one.
So if you get that interview inOctober or February, all it
takes is one acceptance to makea difference in your career.
So patience is incrediblyimportant there.
But if you do find that you wantto do something and like you're
(11:13):
getting a little bit impatientwaiting, you can send a letter
of interest, which I usuallysend or suggest sending, in late
fall or early winter forschools that accept it, because
not every school accepts this.
So we'd want to check on that.
If the school accepts a letterof interest, this is your way of
basically letting the schoolknow that you're still
(11:35):
interested in applying and theseare the things on your
application that kind of alignwith their program and these are
the updates that you've hadsince applying.
So if you are submitting aletter of interest, you always
want to make sure that you haveupdates included in it.
We don't want to just reiteratewhat they have from the fall or
from the summer.
So that's where it's alsoimportant to constantly stay
(11:58):
updated with new experiences andnew grades, things like that,
depending on the phase thatyou're in in life when you apply
.
And lastly, after that interviewif you do opt for wanting to
verify with a certain schoolthat this is your absolute top
choice, then what you can do isrun through that interview, know
(12:22):
that that's your number oneschool and from there you can
send a letter of intent whichbasically lets the school know
that if you earn an acceptanceto that school you will attend.
We only suggest doing this forlike top, top, top choice
schools.
If you are looking intomultiple different schools and
you just want to kind of havethe best option possible and
(12:45):
you're open to differentopportunities, a letter of
intent isn't usually suggestedbecause you're kind of providing
a commitment to that medicalschool.
But that is something helpfulto just keep in the back pocket
if you either know you reallywant to go somewhere or you feel
really confident about like aninterview experience you had at
one school.
(13:06):
So yeah, that's kind of theentire process with interviews.
Keep in mind that at that pointthat's kind of like a fit check
when you make it to theinterview, like they like what
they've seen on paper and nowthey want to see if you'll be a
good fit for the school.
And on the other end, theinterview is also a chance for
you to determine if you will bea good, if the school will be a
(13:26):
good fit for you as well.
So allow yourself theopportunity to interview them
simultaneously, becausehopefully you will have choices
at the end of it.
But we want to make sure thatyou know you're going in
informed as you run through theprocess and know that a school
is a place that you would wantto end up at for the next few
years.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Wow, what a journey people have to take before
getting into medical school.
It's interesting there's a lotof similarities with law school
applications and one of thepre-law advisors at UCLA and
like the rolling admission andcertain things like that
committing to a school.
There are similarities with lawschool, but it's interesting
(14:08):
that this one starts in May.
Usually we see graduateapplications start in the fall,
right?
Yeah, I was surprised to hearthat the first primary
applications start in May, sohow long would you say, if
people are applying in May forprimary, by the time they do
secondary and then by therethere's a waiting period, but
(14:29):
then they get interviews?
When do people start to getadmitted?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So that's the part that varies significantly for
every single student and that'swhere the anxiety can kind of
start to peak as you comparewith peers.
You can start getting inanywhere from July through March
, so it varies significantlyfrom student to student.
For DO schools, that's the onethat you'll start seeing in July
(14:59):
, especially if you have a veryearly interview.
For MD schools, usually thoseacceptances will start rolling
in and around October.
So those will take a little bitmore time.
And then it's also going tovary school by school.
Some have a set turnaround time, of like within two to three
weeks they will get back to you,or they will at least let you
(15:20):
know if you're moving on to thenext batch of applicants that
they're going to review foracceptance, while others may
state we'll get back toeverybody in January or February
.
So you can start hearing backfor MD around October, for DO
around July, and that is rollingthrough the next few months of
(15:40):
the cycle.
And then there's also the caseof like you may hear from one
school in July or August and mayhear nothing until February of
the next year.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So it's like a two year process then.
So students when they'reapplying, let's say, let's take
2025.
If I start my application thisMay, ideally like, let's say,
all everything goes well atmid-instance, I wouldn't know
until next summer, next fall,and then I wouldn't start until
2027 fall, so you would start2026 fall.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So if we apply, let's say, may 2025, you will
matriculate by summer 2026 orearly fall 2026, depending on
that exact timeline, and thenthat's where your primary apps
will be submitted.
If you're applying 2025,somewhere around May, june or
(16:41):
July 2025, depending on howearly you are Secondaries you'll
start receiving them early Julyor beyond, depending on when
you submit your primary app.
And then, depending on how fastyou get those secondaries in
and when the schools review yourapplication, you will be
considered for interviews, whichDOs can start as early as July
(17:04):
2025, but MDs will probablystart closer to the end of
September 2025, rolling into2026.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Amazing.
Nicole.
Can you please clarify DOversus MD for our listeners too?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yes.
So these are both fantasticpaths toward medicine.
We are starting to see moresimilarities between the two.
One is considered a medicaldoctor degree, the other one is
considered a doctor ofosteopathy, but both as a basis
of holistic medicine and theyfocus a lot more on preventative
(17:49):
care and focus on treatment ofthe mind, body, soul.
So oftentimes if you arelooking at an osteopathic
physician, they may focus ontrying to solve a problem before
they see it.
So there's going to be a lotmore of a preventative route and
they may oftentimes takeassessment of, let's say, diet,
lifestyle, exercise,environmental factors, things
(18:12):
like that, in addition tomedication, to make adjustments
to your life that can lead tobetter medical outcomes in the
future for you.
While allopathic medicine,which is the MD route, focuses a
lot more on evidence-basedmedicine, so with that they're
oftentimes waiting to see thesymptoms come about and provide
(18:34):
treatment accordingly, andmedication is again used for
both.
But you'll see it a little bitmore commonly with the
allopathic route.
Both of them currently aretaking these routes.
Both routes currently arefocusing on the holistic
medicine approach a little bitmore in this day and age.
(18:57):
So you'll see a lot morecommonalities in the way that
the two practice, and you'llalso see that oftentimes, at the
end of the day, residencyprograms end up being the same
for these as well.
If you are looking atosteopathic medicine, many of
them do take the primary careroute.
That's not to say that youcan't specialize.
(19:18):
It can just be a little bitmore difficult to specialize
sometimes.
But if you're taking advantageof your medical school
experience and really pushingthrough that for different
research opportunities, clinicalrotations, things like that,
the specializing can occur withthat as well.
Also, when you're runningthrough the application, stats
(19:39):
for DOs are a little bit lowerthan the stats for MDs.
If you're applying to both MDand DO schools, we do suggest
having exposure to both so thatyou can identify the two
pathways and your personalstatements can be tailored to
both of them.
And then one last thing with DOis they have like osteopathic
(20:01):
manipulative medicine as ameasure of uh, as a method of
treatment, which isn't going tobe very common outside of
osteopathic medicine.
They're really the only onesthat can do that, so that's
something to note as wellamazing.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it sounds like it's the philosophy.
Ultimately, both pathways allowyou to become a doctor and
practice and help people healand improve their lives, but
it's the philosophy that youwork around which is super
important.
I think in any kind of graduateprogram that students are
applying to, right to thinkabout what is the philosophy
that I'm going to be operatingwith, because the classes, the
(20:41):
theories, the way that you'mgoing to be operating with,
because the classes, thetheories, the way that you're
going to be learning in thatprogram is all going to be run
by that foundational philosophy.
So I think it's reallyimportant to kind of think about
that and be intentional whenyou're applying or choosing
programs to apply to.
Can you please talk a littlebit about the common mistakes
(21:04):
that UC applicants make whenapplying to medical school?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yes.
So mistakes happen veryfrequently in the application
process just because, as wediscussed right now, you see how
many different moving partsthere are and it can be
incredibly difficult to focus onall different aspects of the
application.
I think one of the simplestmistakes is the timeline and not
(21:34):
applying early or submittingmuch later following application
deadlines.
I think early submission is theeasiest way to get the
application cycle working inyour favor, and submitting late
or holding off on submissions ofeither primary app or secondary
(21:54):
, or waiting for your letterwriters to submit much later in
the cycle, can all impact yourprocess.
So I think seeing a deadline,like when you apply to college
if you apply on the day apps aredue, you're totally fine in
most cases, but when you'reapplying to medical school, you
don't want to wait until the end.
You want to submit as early aspossible.
(22:15):
So application opening dateversus deadline is one of those
misconceptions that students cansometimes fall into and you
want to make sure that you aregetting ahead of the timeline.
I think another one is focusingon their stats, awards and
accolades and achievements.
Stats are a great entry pointwith your application, but
(22:37):
medical schools want to know whoyou are and I think that's a
really big difference fromeverything that's gone on
academically to get into collegeand things like that, or even
getting certain experiences whenyou're a college student.
Starting off the academics areone of the things that come up
most frequently.
You're seeing what awardsyou've gotten, what achievements
(22:58):
you've gotten.
But with the app, while that'sincredibly important as a
gateway entrance point, theywant to know who you are, what
skill sets you possess, howyou're going to contribute to
the medical school, how you'regoing to contribute to the
medical community down the line.
And that comes from becomingpersonal and feeling a lot more
(23:18):
transparent and open with theapplication process.
So I think that's anothercommon misconception is focusing
on, like the stats and awardsand achievements and as opposed
to allowing the committee to seewho you are as an individual.
And lastly, I would say anothermisconception or another common
mistake is not applying toenough medical schools, so
(23:43):
keeping the list really minimal.
Oftentimes you'll see studentsfrom a certain city that want to
try to stay in that city andmay only apply to like five
medical schools, which sometimesthat works out really well,
which is awesome, but you wantto do whatever you can to keep
the cycle in your favor.
So my preferred suggestionthere is applying to a minimum
(24:06):
of 15 medical schools, ideally20.
Of course, your stats make adifference.
If your stats are at a higherpoint, like I'm comfortable with
that 15.
If your stats have a little bitmore variability, then that's
where we may want to look closerto 30 or something like that.
And I always suggest acombination of in-state,
(24:28):
out-of-state schools, privateschools, public schools, so that
you're doing whatever you canto increase your odds and then
also applying to the rightschools, because some may have
preferences for in-state orout-of-state or certain
experiences or populations theywant to see that you've worked
with.
So making sure that while wewant a broad school list, we
(24:49):
also want to make sure that theschool list includes schools
that would actually consider you.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
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Speaker 3 (26:38):
Now let's get back to our show.
I don't think I've ever heardanyone say like 15 to 30 schools
.
That's wild.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I think the national average is currently at 16.
And I always like to be alittle bit above that.
But yes, that's where that highnumber kind of starts.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Wow, yeah, because students will ask us all the
time you know what is?
How many schools should I applyto?
It's very different for othertypes of graduate programs,
right.
Even for law school or generalother grad programs, we
definitely have a lower rangethan 15, 16 that we recommend.
Also, because every applicationis so tailored to the program,
(27:24):
right, and you do have to bereally thoughtful in your
applications and we want to makesure our clients and students
know that it's not just going tobe you write, you do one set of
application and submit to allthese programs.
You have to be very intentionaland tailored.
But with medical school, itsounds like it's important to be
above the 15 range just becauseyou have to increase your odds
(27:49):
and it's super competitive.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Absolutely yes.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, and with that, having knowing that each school
is going to ask for a secondaryapplication and that means that
this person who is applying hasto have, like straight, solid
time management skillsthroughout the summer in the
application cycle, what have youseen that works with you know,
many times students who arecompleting their college
(28:15):
programs are still applying tomedical school.
So how do you see that your,your clients, really balance
these high number ofapplications and questions and
being personal with theireveryday life?
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think one of the benefits ofthe application timeline is that
if you are a student, it kindof falls into the beginning of
your summer.
So I always work with mystudents to kind of gauge their
summer coursework or summer workexperiences to try to keep the
first half of summer a littlebit lighter in terms of academic
(28:51):
load or career responsibilities.
If they are not able to modifythat, then usually I also
encourage significantconversations with family and
friends, kind of letting themknow that the summer is going to
be their time to be focused oncommitments regarding the
application process.
So I've had a lot of studentsthat had either moved family
(29:14):
vacations or had to miss certainopportunities to be able to
allow for time for this process,opportunities to be able to
allow for time for this process.
It is a really large commitmentand that's where I really
suggest pre-writing secondaries.
So once you submit your primaryapplication, or if you're even
ahead of the game and yourprimary is done earlier, start
(29:37):
preparing those secondary essaysearly on.
There is access to past promptswhich can absolutely help you.
Or you can even start withwriting drafts for the most
common secondaries and thentailor that as the schools come
in Just because once you startreceiving secondaries, within
two weeks you can receivesecondaries from almost every
(30:01):
school and that can be a couplehundred pages of writing and
it's incredibly strenuous andexhausting.
So that's where the earlierprocess of submitting your
primary app until the time youstart getting secondaries is the
time that I think you shouldreally take advantage of as a
student with pre-writing,because deadlines haven't hit
(30:24):
yet and you can kind ofmanipulate the process a little
bit more in that way.
I had a student last cycle andwe met multiple times every
single week and I just saw hishair growing a little more and a
little more and a little moreand he's like a little more and
a little more and a little moreand he's like I have not left
(30:45):
the house in six weeks by theend of it.
But he got interviews tomultiple top 10 schools and the
result paid off.
So I think it's just keeping inmind what can come at the end
of it.
That discipline can be reallyexhausting.
It can you know?
You submit your primaryapplication and you feel like
you're done.
You feel like you've done thehard work, but that next month
(31:07):
or so is really when the bulk ofit begins because of the fast
turnaround times andindividualized process, so
altering commitments to whatevercapacity that you can.
If you're able to opt out of asummer course or no summer
course the first half of summerand pick something up the second
half, that would be great.
(31:28):
If there's a way to navigateyour work experience to do
part-time work over the summer,that would be amazing as well.
If not, make sure you're takingadvantage of evenings and
weekends and have thosedifficult conversations with
family and friends.
Of course it's important tostill take care of yourself in
the process, because we don'twant you to crash or burn out
and you know self-care androutine here and there is
(31:50):
important.
If you go to the gym, if youenjoy hiking, if you enjoy
cooking, if there's like adinner that you want to do here
and there, absolutely like,continue having a little bit of
normalcy to take care ofyourself.
But it is something thatinvolves a significant
commitment for those couple ofmonths.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, that sounds really intense for the first
couple months of the applicationprocess, going back to the
beginning stages of what thatmay look like.
This process and thisdedication really does start
kind of at the beginning ofone's decision to want to pursue
this type of field, and for uswe see a lot of individuals who
are, you know, focused on theirGPA when to take different
(32:35):
entrance exams.
So can you tell us, can youtalk a little bit more about how
your GPA and MCAT scores arecompared to other parts of the
application, like theextracurriculars and personal
statement?
What does that look like?
And then a little bit of afollow up is if you're someone
who graduates college and thenwants to pursue medical medical
(32:56):
school down the line in a fewyears, what does that mean, what
?
What might that look like forsomeone as well line in a few?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
years.
What does that mean?
What might that look like forsomeone as well?
Yes, so stats are an incrediblyimportant part of the
application process in terms ofopening the door and having
schools wanting to learn moreabout you upfront.
So I always say like, if youhave great stats, that can be a
way to open doors for schools,to make them want to learn more
(33:24):
about you and really dive intothe personal statement and
experiences.
Unfortunately, if the statsaren't solid, that can be a
factor that can impact yourschool list.
So that's where we'd want tohave a more extensive
conversation regarding theapplication process based on
(33:45):
stats that are there.
So higher GPA, higher MCATscore, more doors will open up
front for you.
However, once the stats arethere, the application itself is
what matters most.
The rest of the application iswhat's going to tell the story
of who you are.
It's going to show who you areas a holistic applicant and your
ability to contribute to theschool and the field of medicine
(34:08):
overall.
The stats can oftentimes showyour academic confidence, your
academic competence and yourscientific inquiry, but your
passion for the field, yourcommunication skills,
problem-solving skills,leadership, initiative, teamwork
, bedside manner all that comesfrom your experiences and
(34:28):
personal statement.
So again, stats can serve asthat medical school.
If a school is considering astudent with your stats, they're
probably considering many otherstudents with similar stats as
well.
So what's going to set youapart from the numbers?
(34:51):
And that's where everythingelse comes in.
So stats are important, but Ithink now more than ever, being
a holistic applicant matterseven more In terms of stats.
You want to have your prereqsdone, or as close to done as
possible, as early as you can inthe process.
(35:13):
If you have all your prereqsdone by the time you submit your
primary application, then medschools will be able to see that
as a way to gauge your abilityto succeed academically in those
classes.
If you have a couple prereqsleft over, that's okay.
You just want to kind of keepthis in mind as your own
baseline and also, if you haveyour prereqs done earlier on,
(35:34):
that's going to support you withthe MCAT, because the content
for the MCAT oftentimes overlapswith what you'll be learning in
the courses.
So the sooner you pursue thosecourses, the easier your MCAT
prep process will be.
For a student that's taken a fewyears off, there are a few
different recommendationsDepending on how many years have
(35:58):
been off and how you performedin the undergraduate setting and
what you've done sincegraduating.
One route is you may not needto repeat classes.
Some schools have prereqdeadlines, others do not, and,
like I've worked with studentsthat ended up like pursuing PhDs
or master's programs in otherfields in the sciences and they
(36:21):
didn't need to repeat theprereqs because they were
already in the field in some wayor had continuous science
coursework.
But if you haven't taken anyscience coursework or you're a
complete career changer, that iswhere you're going to want to
do a little bit of an academicexploration process, going to
(36:44):
want to do a little bit of anacademic exploration process.
Postbacs and master's programsare great ways to get the
coursework in and this will bein specific settings where other
students will be alongside ofyou running through the same
process and you'll also haveadvisors as a part of the
process that can write lettersfor you and help guide you in
whatever way to make sure thatyou're running through the
(37:05):
courses as efficiently andtimely as possible.
However, I do also note thatthose programs can sometimes be
costly, so students may also optfor, like DIY postbacs that
they'll do independently at alocal community college and
complete those prereqs in thatway and then also keeping in
(37:26):
mind potentially specializedmaster's programs that have
connections with medical schools, so that can also boost your
chances of actually getting intothe medical school if you
pursue one of those, becauseoftentimes if you have a certain
GPA and MCAT score andcompleted the courses in that
program with like a B or better,let's say, they will give you a
(37:48):
guaranteed interview and inthose programs oftentimes you
will be doing your first yearwith the medical students.
So that also allows the schoolto see that you're able to
handle the load a little bitmore comprehensively as well.
So you're kind of alreadygetting a foot in in many cases.
So that's, those are thedifferent routes that I would
(38:09):
consider.
If a student has taken sometime off, and also if you've
taken time off, make sure thatyou're obtaining experiences in
the field.
I know a lot of times peoplemay take time off, pursue other
commitments, may have otherresponsibilities to support
family, things like that, butmake sure that you're able to
ultimately show medical schoolswhy you're pursuing a career in
(38:30):
medicine and that's going tocome with relevant experience.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I love that you talked about that.
There are always opportunitiesto pursue this pathway, even if
maybe you didn't start at ayounger age.
And I think in the work that weall three of us do, we see
oftentimes a lot of students whoare so focused on.
I need to figure this out rightnow, because it's almost as if
(39:00):
those doors aren't going to beopen later on and that's not
true.
And that's the same that goesfor any other graduate program.
When I work with my pre-lawstudents, I talk about the same
thing.
I always say law school willalways be there.
Same goes here.
Med school will always be there.
Right?
So let's say you don't realizethat this is your passion early
(39:20):
on in life, it doesn't mean thatyou can't get there.
Sure, it'll take a little bitlonger or there might be a few
extra steps, because now youhave to, you know, do a post-bac
program, get your prerequisitesin and maybe get more
experience in the field.
No problem, if you realize thatthis is your passion later on,
you can still reach this pathway.
(39:42):
So I love that the messaging isvery similar around med school
as it is for other graduateprograms, and you talked a
little bit about people being aholistic applicant, which is so,
so true.
Because, again, students get sofixated on stats, gpa, mcat
scores and their grades andtranscripts.
(40:05):
And, yes, those are important,but you have to be able to talk
about why you want to go intothis field, why you would be a
good candidate for a program,but also why you would be great
in this industry once you'repracticing right.
So can you talk a little bitabout how students can approach
both their essays as well astheir recommendation letters and
(40:28):
just the rest of theapplication process with the
mindset of being more holistic?
How much emphasis should theyput on other things besides
their statistics?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yes, absolutely so, with the personal statement and
what comes out in secondaries,other essays and even letters.
I always suggest gettingpersonal, and that's a very
different experience forstudents, because when you're in
college, most essays are veryacademic or providing
(41:02):
perspectives with evidencebehind it, and this is the first
time in a long time wherestudents are probably going to
be running through this processof actually sharing personal
information about themselves,and so I always share with my
students that you want to allowthe committee to see who you are
(41:23):
as an individual and sharestories that are unique to you,
always include anecdotes thatare tailored, specific and allow
us to understand exactly whyyou're pursuing a career in
medicine and, as mentioned, yourpassion for the field and the
different skills you possessthat will make you a good
(41:44):
physician at the end of the day.
This is going to involve a lotof reflection through your
different experiences, and theymay not even be medically
related experiences.
It may be something thathappened in your childhood.
It may be, you know, gettinginjured as a kid and realizing
you didn't have health insuranceand how that impacted your
(42:06):
treatment.
Or it may even be an experiencethat you had with a provider
that treated a family member orsomeone that you shadowed that
ended up impacting you.
So every student's journey isgoing to be different.
Every student's story is goingto be different, but personal is
what's going to make thedifference, and details that
allow us to see who you are andwhere that commitment came in.
(42:30):
Don't be afraid to showcollaboration, to show teamwork.
You can even bring inexperiences like TA
opportunities or leadershippositions you held in, like a
research setting or clinicalsetting.
This is also a place to allowyour unique experiences to shine
.
So if you founded a programthat isn't really common, or
(42:52):
supported an underservedpopulation in some way, this is
where you highlight it, becausethis is what's going to set you
apart from other students.
Something I share with mystudents is, if I cover all
personal pronouns in yourpersonal statement, will this be
a statement that's onlyrelevant to you?
If so, good, that's a personalessay.
(43:15):
If not, we'll run through itagain and see any parts of it
that can be tailored a littlebit more so that we can ensure
that it's unique to you.
So always keep in mindanecdotes are incredibly
important.
It's going to be very helpful inallowing you to identify how
(43:35):
you've grown throughout yourprocess as well, and when it
comes to your letters, I thinkthe same thing applies.
You want to make sure thatyou're getting letter writers
that know you and can speak onthe different experiences that
you've had in settings with them.
If it's a professor, we want tomake sure that it's a professor
(43:56):
that knows you, as opposed to aclass where maybe you went in
every day, got your A but didn'tcommunicate with the professor
at all independently, or withthe peers grade or even
(44:23):
participated in a project thatthe professor now uses as an
example for their class, or hada collaborative opportunity in a
discussion section that gotthem to see your understanding
of the subject area and allowedthem to see how you can support
your peers.
Those are more uniqueopportunities to showcase that
skill set that you have and willallow your letter writers to
also identify that as well.
(44:43):
And I think the same thingcomes in with clinical letters,
research letters, communityinvolvement letters, leadership
letters.
The more your letter writerknows about you, the better the
letter will be, and the moreskill sets they can identify
about you, the more likely acommittee will take that letter
with higher regard.
(45:04):
So always make sure that withyour letter writers you're
finding people that know you andI always suggest to my students
like write down stories andexamples for your letter writer
to reference, so that they canalso tie that into the letter
and showcase the skills.
Because they work with a lot ofstudents, they may not always
remember exactly what you did,so give them that little
(45:26):
refresher as well and advocatefor yourself.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Absolutely Getting personal sounds like it's one of
the key parts to yoursecondaries.
As you're filling out all ofthose applications, we can say
that you know, for someindividuals writing can come a
little bit easier than forothers, but where we see a lot
of the time individuals kind ofstruggle is in the interview
process Now bringing what's inthose documents in that
(45:53):
application to life so you cansee that I am the person that
you were just reading about.
I am that person that you knowserved that underserved
community or did this type ofwork, or these are the examples
that I have to bring.
Can you walk us through alittle bit what happens during a
medical school interview,knowing how they're screened
kind of through theirsecondaries and how applicants
(46:14):
can really best prepare?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Absolutely so.
If you make it to the interviewphase, give yourself credit,
because that is a huge step toachieve and many students forget
that.
They're so focused on thatfinal outcome of getting the
acceptance.
But if you make it to theinterview, that is huge.
That means that the medicalschools like everything that
(46:39):
they've seen on paper and theywant to meet you and consider
having you as a student.
So take a moment, give yourselfcredit, pat yourself on the
back, because you do deservethat in that moment.
Getting an interview is areally big deal.
With that being said, there aredifferent types of interviews
and when it comes to preparingfor interviews, I always suggest
(47:03):
mock interviews as the toppointer, because the best way to
perfect your interview processis by practicing.
That's a way to build yourconfidence and this is the phase
, honestly, that I love the most, because this is where I see my
students transform the most andbuild confidence in themselves
(47:24):
and why they're a fit for acertain medical school.
So keep in mind there aredifferent types of interviews.
Interview day itself caninvolve a campus tour if it's in
person, which we've seen ashift away from that since COVID
but they can provide campustours.
You may have a session with thedean or current faculty
(47:49):
providing a little bit ofinformation on the medical
school.
There may be an info session ora meet and greet with current
medical students, whichoftentimes occurs either
virtually or in person,depending on the setting of the
interview.
A lot of my students findsignificant benefit to those
student sessions because that'swhere they really get an idea of
(48:12):
the culture of the campus andthe community, both in terms of
the faculty engagement and theway students may support one
another.
So if that's even an optionalsession, I always say go,
because I know earlier we spokeabout making sure the school is
a fit for you as well, andthat's a big thing.
(48:33):
That comes with the interviewprocess and allowing you to
communicate with existingstudents is a way to see whether
you want to go there.
So that's kind of like thelogistical side.
Then we have the interviewtypes, which can be a
traditional interview, amultiple mini interview, a group
interview, a panel interview,and each of these interviews you
(48:54):
will be the focus.
Obviously You'll be answeringthe bulk of the questions.
You will be the focus.
Obviously You'll be answeringthe bulk of the questions.
A traditional interview willtypically have you with one
interviewer running throughstandard questions.
They may ask questions relatedto your experiences as well, or
questions where you're able toidentify different skillsets.
So, going into the interviewprocess, I always suggest
(49:16):
reviewing your application.
Make sure you know what youwrote in your primary app and in
your secondaries and why youwant to go to this school.
Do your research on the programand I always suggest running
through your experiences againand noting down stories that you
can think of that can come upin interview questions.
(49:38):
If they ask you about achallenging time in an
experience, if they ask youabout a leadership position, if
they ask about a time where youdidn't get what you want in a
research opportunity, a timewhere you had a challenge with a
colleague, a time where yousucceeded or took initiative,
prepare examples of thesedifferent skill sets and these
(50:00):
different types of questions sothat, if it comes up, you're
ready to go and if it doesn'tand you get something else, if
you've already prepared to thiscapacity, it's going to be
easier for you to run throughyour arsenal of different
experiences and differentanswers to then be able to think
on the spot and identifysomething unique.
(50:21):
But yes, traditional questionswill oftentimes have standard
questions that you'll see, tellme about yourself why medicine,
why this school?
And again different questionsto learn about experiences and
skill sets you possess.
The MMI is very unique tomedical school applications.
This is a multiple miniinterview and usually they will
(50:46):
give you a very specificscenario unrelated to anything
in your application and they'llgive you a couple minutes to
prepare to answer the question.
A lot of these questions willhave moral and ethical reasoning
included in them.
So with that, I would suggestidentify different moral and
(51:07):
ethical issues that could berelevant to the field or just
going on in the world in thecurrent day, so that you can
include that in your answer ForMMI.
I always tell my students thatthey're trying to understand
your critical thinking, yourthought process, your logic.
So this is a good place tothink aloud because that allows
(51:28):
them to see how you get to afinal outcome.
If they ask you a question.
This is a consolidated version.
But if they ask you somethinglike you're on the road driving
to work and you see a caraccident, 10 cars ahead of you,
would you get out of the car tohelp or not?
The more information you givethem, the more they're able to
(51:52):
see your thought process inidentifying what the best way is
to navigate such a scenario.
So that's going to be a littlebit about the MMI.
Group and panel interviews areseen as well.
They're not as common, but thegroup interview is where you
will be a student amongst othermedical school applicants.
(52:12):
You may get the same questions.
You may get different questions.
They may even have youparticipate in an activity with
the peers and then a panelinterview will be you along with
multiple interviewers on theother side, each asking you
different questions.
One other distinction with theapplication process is some may
(52:33):
be open file, some may be closedfile and some may be partial
for the interview, which is adifference in how much access
they have to your applicationfor the interview, which is a
difference in how much accessthey have to your application.
An open file means they seeeverything.
So if you are an applicant witha lower MCAT score or lower GPA
and your interview is open file,make sure you're also prepared
(52:53):
to talk about any low grades orperformance on the MCAT.
If it's partial, file with that, they usually have access to
your experiences and personalstatement.
So if you again have lowerstats now, you're in luck,
because that's probably notgoing to come up, they're going
to focus more on the experiencesand personal statement.
(53:15):
And then closed file means theyknow nothing, they've seen
nothing about your application.
So those distinctions are alsoreally helpful for you to keep
in mind as a student, in termsof how much you're reflecting on
past experiences, and then alsowhat they may ask, because if
it's an open file, they alreadyhave the basis of everything
you've already done.
So they may ask you to talk alittle bit more about a certain
(53:38):
clinical experience or a certainresearch experience, while if
it's closed file they knownothing.
So you're going to have to kindof give a basis of what's
occurred and go back to thebasics.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Wow.
The interview itself soundsalso very all-encompassing,
right.
There's so many differentcomponents to it.
I hadn't even heard of openfile versus closed file.
So it's cool to see that thereare these different variations
and for the student to know,like you said, how much to
prepare, whether they're goingto have to give all the basics
(54:15):
of all their experiences in theinterview or if they know that
it's going to kind of be moretargeted towards particular
experiences because theinterviewers are seeing their
entire file.
I think that's something veryunique to med school and really
cool to know that students getthese different options.
But what a process, right.
(54:36):
It definitely is something thatyou know you have to be very
intentional about and dedicate alot of time, effort and energy.
But I love what you said in thebeginning that it only takes
one school to get you to thisgoal statement, because, yeah,
(55:01):
if people are applying to 15 to20 schools, I know sometimes
students also get caught up inthe.
You know I want to have mybackups, but if I get into one,
I still want to get into thisother one.
That's like my dream school,and sometimes even getting into
one doesn't make them feel likethey're good enough, but that's
ultimately.
It only takes one school.
You know, yes, it would beideal if everyone got into their
dream schools, but at the endof the day, you're still going
(55:23):
to become a doctor, you're stillgoing to be able to practice
and help people heal and andimprove their lives.
So it only takes one school.
I'm going to stick with that.
I love that.
Thank you so much, nicole.
Can you give us one final, anyfinal advice that you have for
applicants who are applying tomed school?
Just through your expertise?
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yes, ooh, that is a tough one.
As you've seen, it's a verycomprehensive process, so there
are logistical points ofguidance that I can provide.
But I'm going to take adifferent approach and identify
having grace with yourselfthroughout the process Because,
(56:07):
as we discussed, there are somany different moving parts and
it can get really easy to getcaught up in that.
But remember how far you'vecome.
You are applying to medicalschool and that has taken so
many hours of commitment, somany experiences.
You've pursued so manydifficult courses, a lot of
(56:29):
reflection beyond what you'veprobably done in years.
And note that that takes a lotof courage, it takes a lot of
strength and you deserve to havegrace with yourself through
this process because it's adifficult one, but the outcome
will be worth it.
And keep that in mind as you runthrough every step of the
(56:52):
medical school applicationprocess.
You finish one step, anotherone comes at you right away.
But take a moment, have grace.
Remember you just submittedyour primary.
That deserves some credit.
You just submitted yoursecondaries.
You're waiting for interviews,but you did it.
And keep each one of those winsin mind, because that is a huge
(57:16):
point of success in itself.
And having grace with yourself.
Having that confidence andbeing your biggest advocate is
what's going to get you to thatfinish line.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
I love that, having grace with yourself throughout
this process.
I think for anyone out there,our end goals look so far right.
They look so far away, andthere's all these challenges and
bumps we can anticipate in theroad, but every time you get
closer you take one step.
I love celebrating each onealong the way.
Thank you so much, nicole, foryour conversation and for
(57:51):
individuals who are curiousabout wanting to apply to
medical school or any of theprofessional graduate programs
that you support with, where canthey reach out to you?
Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yes, absolutely so.
They can find me on socialmedia.
The social media handle is NextStep Admissions Prep.
They can also find me on mywebsite, nextstepadmitcom
(58:25):
admitcom.
Or you can also send me anemail at Nicole at next step
admitcom and I will be happy toanswer and provide support in
any way that I can.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Thank you so much, nicole.
We'll put all of these in ourshow notes as well for anybody
listening to have easy access toNicole's contact information,
but we do definitely encourageanyone out there who's thinking
about applying to medical schoolor any other type of graduate
program.
Nicole is obviously an expert,has a lot of experience and a
(58:51):
lot of knowledge and reallygreat advice to share, so make
sure that you are usingresources that are available to
you and reaching out to folkswho can support you in this
process.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you enjoy our show, we askthat you write a review on Apple
Podcasts to help us reach morepeople looking to level up their
(59:11):
career Want to connect with us.
Speaker 3 (59:13):
Be sure to follow our Instagram and websites.
Speaker 2 (59:16):
Follow Career Rise on Instagram for career advice and
motivation to help you stay upto date on all things career.
Be sure to also visit mywebsite, careerriseorg, to book
a session with me and accessfree resources.
My goal is to help you clarifyyour goals, make a plan and feel
confident in your careerjourney.
Speaker 3 (59:36):
Follow Career Confident Latina for your weekly
dose of career advice and myjourney as a first Confident
Latina for your weekly dose ofcareer advice and my journey as
a first-gen Latina counselor.
You can also send me a messageon mjcareerconfidencecom if you
want to book a career counselingsession.
I want to help grow yourconfidence as you reach your
career dreams.
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