October 7, 2025 • 32 mins
We break down why public speaking triggers anxiety and how to turn that energy into presence, clarity, and connection. From slide design and storytelling to the three V’s and audience engagement, we share practical tools to help you speak with confidence without losing yourself.
• performance anxiety drivers and why it feels intense
• career value of clear communication and leadership signals
• presentations at any scale, not just big stages
• simple slide design and message-first structure
• storytelling as a tool for retention and impact
• authenticity and personal brand in delivery
• the three V’s: verbal, vocal, visual and their weight
• eye contact, pacing, pausing, and tone control
• managing nerves with breathing and self-talk
• practice for progress, not perfection
• conversational tactics to engage the room
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
All right, listeners.
We want you to know that this isan episode you can share with a
friend or colleague that'spreparing for a big talk.
So enjoy the episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
You are listening to Coffee and Career Hour.
We are your hosts.
I'm Armina.
And I'm MJ.
Two career counselors andfriends chatting about all
things life and career.
So grab a cup of coffee and joinus.
SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
Okay, Armine.
Be honest.
Have you ever stood up to give apresentation and immediately
felt your heart racing, handssweaty, and suddenly forgot
everything you had planned tosay?
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Uh, literally, like every time.
My brain goes completely blank.
Like, who gave me the mic?
I did.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
But no, you're right.
Exactly.
Public speaking is one of thosethings that everybody needs, but
most people actually dread it.
So today we're gonna break itdown for our listeners.
How do you go from shaking instress to confident and clear
when it's your turn to speak?
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
Oh my gosh, I love that because public speaking, I
can't tell you how many times itcomes up in my conversations
with clients, with friends, withanybody that I'm talking to who
has to give some kind ofpresentation, whether it's for a
class, for work, whatever levelthat presentation is, people are
always feeling anxious about it.
(01:29):
So I'm curious, MJ, why do youthink public speaking is so
anxiety provoking for people?
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
Yeah.
Aside from the from what youjust mentioned about how
involved it is within our everypart of our life, right?
Whether it's, you know, um aparty you're at and you're asked
to give a speech, whether it's apresentation you're doing for an
interview or a presentation oran opportunity you're
facilitating some type ofproject or something, it is very
(01:59):
nerve-wracking for a lot ofpeople because all eyes are on
you, right?
And you need to look.
You need to be the person thathas it together and knows what
to say.
You also have to be very calm.
You have to give off this likecool, calm, and collected look.
There's a lot of pressure there.
And that does build on someonewho is either not familiar with
doing it very, very often or mayfeel some type of way before
(02:20):
actually engaging in publicspeaking.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's that performance anxiety,right?
What is everybody thinking ofme?
What about if I forget the wordsor I don't sound smart?
All these like things thatpeople might be thinking in
their minds about publicspeaking.
And you and I have been thereourselves.
We know exactly what that feelslike.
But it is such an important partin our careers and in our just
(02:47):
the way society is these days,whether you're thinking of like
putting up a reel on socialmedia, for example, or you're in
school or in your career,there's so much performance,
quote unquote, or in like publicspeaking that has to happen.
So let's talk a little bit aboutwhy it's such an important skill
set in a person's careerdevelopment.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Well, you know, when you engage in public speaking,
there is a level of presencethat you give off, right?
You give off energy, you giveoff confidence.
And to many people, those whocan execute public speaking very
well are often seen as leadersas well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, leadership issomething that is kind of at the
forefront of people's minds asthey think about their careers,
right?
Like what's next?
Um, am I gonna advance in thisspace, right?
What are future opportunities?
So that is such an importantlike image to present when
you're in whatever phase you arein your career.
(03:48):
And public speaking is likedirectly tied to how people see
you as a leader or if they seeyou as somebody that can take on
more responsibility in thatgiven space, right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
Yeah.
I want to say public speakingnot only happens at a grand
level, right?
It can mean you're presenting to500 people at a conference or
you are facilitating a large um,let's say, presentation or
meeting for like maybe 50 peopleor less, but it also happens
when you're connecting like in asmaller group.
And that is a level of presenceyou also give off as well.
(04:23):
When you're public speaking,you're not just showing your
skill set of public speaking,but how you clearly communicate,
break down ideas, engage with anaudience, right?
So it's a multi-layered skillset that you have when you're
engaging in public speaking aswell, which is why it's so
critical because you're not justshowing one skill, but many at
once.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
I love that you kind of brought it down to it's also
in just the way you interactwith someone even on a
one-on-one scale, right?
It doesn't have to be this grandthing.
And really when we think aboutlike what employers are looking
for, and we talk about this alot throughout the podcast and
previous episodes too, about theconcept of skills-based hiring
and how employers value somebodywho can communicate effectively,
(05:05):
uh, whatever scale that may be,right?
Or somebody who can get theirideas across clearly.
And that's really at the core ofwhat public speaking is.
So today we want to talk alittle bit about how people can
clearly and effectivelycommunicate and quote unquote
speak in public settings.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
Yeah.
One of those ways, and we'vetalked about it, I think we've
referenced it multiple timesalready, is through
presentations, right?
A presentation can be somethingthat can be accompanied with a
slide deck, or it is just anoral presentation of information
you're sharing, of new ideasthat you're also offering as
well.
So presentations are a huge partbecause they're probably half of
(05:48):
the content of what you're goingto share with someone.
And it's important to understandhow to create something that can
engage multiple audiences or thedirect audience or population
that you're working with, butalso how to get your message
across.
SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, when when we thinkabout, I guess I'm curious, like
when you do your presentationstoo, um day, how do you normally
structure your thoughts to makesure that the message goes
across clearly?
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
I love that question because over the last, let's
see, how old am I?
Over the last eight years, Iwant to say, maybe um like six
years, I've grown a lot in thespace of public speaking.
Not only through the work that Ido, but through career
confidence, I've had to work andcreate presentations for various
(06:37):
different populations, breakingdown um complex ideas in the
world of career development,right, for younger audiences.
And when I do that, in my brain,it makes complete sense what I'm
trying to do.
But when we're thinkingintentionally about who we're
talking with, you kind of haveto center yourself and
understand what is the messageyou want to get across.
So for me, it really comes downto what is the main point or
(07:00):
what are the few things ofthemes that I kind of want to
focus on and how can I begin toengage this audience on this
idea or concept that they'rehere for, that they may want to
be here for, or that they werealso like, I don't want to say
forced, but encouraged to alsobe here for too.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Yeah, I think that's such an important point of like
making note of who is listeningto you because the information
needs to be digestible for theperson in front of you, right?
I was challenged with thisrecently through Career Rise
when I had to develop careercontent for a much younger
audience.
Uh I'm typically used to workingwith adult populations, college
(07:40):
students, right?
And then this project that I hadtaken on, I'm developing content
for anybody from middle schoolall the way to maybe mid-20s.
So I had to think about how Ican extend my expand my
horizons, the language I'musing, the slide dex I'm putting
together has to be relatable toa middle schooler and a high
(08:02):
schooler and like an 18,20-year-old individual.
So it was a challenge for me anda stretch, but I a good one that
I really enjoyed learning.
SPEAKER_02 (08:11):
Yeah, a couple tips I think we can offer for you
creating for our for you, ourlisteners, creating
presentations and you know,taking these like large
concepts.
Um, something I did very earlyon, and this is totally natural
to do, was I would jam-pack.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna think ofa traditional presentation with
a slide deck.
That's kind of where I'm gonnago with this.
So I want you to also envisionthat too.
(08:32):
For those of you listening, Iwould jam-pack that slide deck
with text when I was youngerbecause I was so reliant.
I would use my slide deck as acrutch, right?
And I would jam pack it with allthe information, I would cite it
all as a college student andmade sure whatever I talked
about was regurgitated on theslide as well.
I did that for a couple ofreasons.
I think I've gotten so muchbetter over the years, but I
(08:55):
also wanted to think about thedifferent ways people learn,
right?
And something that I often wouldcome back to is is this?
And I would ask myself is isthis the easiest and simplest
way to get this message acrossor this information?
Because you want to keep itsimple.
No matter how complex it is,you're gonna have different
engagement levels through youraudience.
And you want to come back to isthis, like you said, is this
(09:17):
information simple, digestiblefor this population?
So whatever idea you're workingwith or accompaniment in terms
of tools, make sure it's easyand it's clear for those
engaged.
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's it's so funnybecause when we think of like a
really well thought outpresentation, we may think of
like very content-heavy.
Yeah.
Make sure there's all thisresearch and data and all these
things to back up what you'resaying.
But ultimately what sticks withpeople is more of like that
relatable content.
Yeah.
That's a little bit simpler andreally the story aspect, which
(09:52):
is what I've come to learn overtime too.
And there's actually big um uhbooks about this too, on how
important storytelling is ingetting your message across.
Because humans, we connectthrough stories, right?
And we may forget all of thelike quote unquote practical
information that's being sharedwith us, but that one story that
(10:14):
um the presenter is sharing issomething that we will stick
with, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Story sharing is something thathas become more and more
prevalent as we have wanted toconnect with individuals with
the added use of technology.
We have that is the one way wechoose to connect with each
other, just sharing our stories.
And you mentioned somethingabout like, you know, we may not
remember the math.
I'm thinking about, you know,um, someone in my life who's
(10:42):
very logical and hispresentations are always very
like white and black, you know,very equation heavy.
He's also a scientist, all thesedifferent things.
And mine are very colorful orlike very, you know, like fun, I
guess, not to say that he's notfun, but kind of.
Um, and it's not what you'regetting at Armin A's.
It's not necessarily thelanguage or the information we
want them to exactly know, butit's also the way they felt, how
(11:04):
we made them feel, the things wemade them think, right?
Our audience, for example, isnot to just show them or teach
them about content or topics weknow as career counselors, but
it's how to transform yourselfthrough your personal brand, how
to share your assets and yourvalues and your strengths to an
employer, right?
Not just how to know what theyare and how to communicate them.
SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
Yeah, yeah.
It's the impact you leave onevery single person that you're
interacting with on a larger orsmaller scale.
So I love that.
And I like that you connectedthat to a personal brand because
it is, you know, your brand,depending on how people feel
after interacting with you.
That's a big part of what yourbrand is.
SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
Yeah.
I want to say to you veryquickly on that note, please,
when you're whatever we're,well, I shouldn't say wherever.
So let's hold on, let's dialthis back.
Please make sure to include yourauthentic and original self in
each time you present.
I say that being someone whoconstantly tells people when I'm
giving presentations, pleasenote I am not your traditional
lecturer.
I'm here to have a conversationwith you and share information
(12:05):
that can be valuable to help yougrow in any type of way.
So I include humor.
I include, you know, sillythings that happen to me on a
daily basis or examples that Ibelieve are gonna be relatable
with the population I'm workingwith.
And I want the listeners, I wantour listeners to know that
though those aren't things thatshould be absent in your
presentations.
(12:26):
Of course, if you are presentingfor an interview, if you're
giving a more formalpresentation for your job or a
client maybe you're working withor a company in that sense, keep
that level of professionalismand appropriateness.
But it's also okay to still beyou throughout this process.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Yeah, I think that's where the disconnect is for a
lot of folks, where they maystart to feel that anxiety is
because they start to losethemselves in in that
presentation, right?
And and they worry that, oh, ifI say the wrong word or if I
crack a joke here, then they'renot gonna take me seriously, or
uh all these other limitingbeliefs that people might have
(13:04):
around their ability to be agood presenter or speaker.
And ultimately it is you canstill be professional, but throw
in a joke where appropriate, oror make eye contact, or say
something silly, but still it'soverall a professional
presentation, and that's totallyokay.
Even in interviews, we alwaystalk about that too.
(13:24):
Be yourself, it's okay, smile.
Um, that those are those you'redealing with people, and it's
that emotional connection fromone human to the other that
makes sense.
So authenticity really is thesecret sauce here, too.
SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
Yeah, Armin, I do want to stop for a second
because there are also some veryimportant parts of public
speaking that are a little bitmore logistical, if you were to
say, right?
Things that you definitely wantto include or aspects that you
really, really want to payattention to.
And those revolve around thethree B's.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
And those are verbal, vocal, and visual.
Now, this is based off of a lotof research that has been done
by psychologists in the spacewho study communication, and
they have found specifically theone psychologist I'm referring
to, is Albert Myrapion, and he'sfrom UCLA, and he has found that
(14:20):
there's these three keyelements, the three V's, right?
And how much impact each ofthose concept each of those
concepts has in a person'spresentation.
So, for example, there isresearch, she found that verbal,
what you're actually saying, theactual words you're saying, only
makes 7% of impact on youraudience.
(14:41):
I thought that was supershocking.
What do you think, I'm doing?
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
I think so too, because when we're thinking
about what you say, I'm alwayspaying attention to like, am I
understanding, right?
Like, what are the words?
What is the language?
How are they sharing um anddissecting these different
things?
So that's the fact that it'sunder 10% is pretty shocking to
me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
I know.
I was like, oh my gosh, so itdoesn't even matter.
All those words you're puttingon the slides, it does not
matter.
The other one is vocal, which isyour tone, your energy, your
pace, and that's about 38%impact.
SPEAKER_02 (15:16):
I I absolutely agree that this is more than 25%.
Just because, you know, just asa career counselor, these are
elements tone, pace, pause,energy, um, those are all things
I pay attention to when working,you know, in mock interviews
with clients or providinginterview prep strategy.
These are things we focus onbecause how you how you present
(15:38):
yourself does come across a lotof the time vocally, right?
And how you share things.
If I'm talking really, really,really, really fast, I can show
off, be off as nervous orexciting.
Or if I'm like high, high, highenergy, I may not match what the
person in front of me or theaudience in front of me has.
And that also can put beoff-putting too.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The talking fast is a reallycommon thing I see for
interviews and for presentationsboth, because it's where when we
get nervous, we're trying tolike get through this, right?
Like, hey, I just want to dothis and be done with it.
And and it really takes awayfrom the experience and how
people are experiencing you inthat space.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Yeah.
I remember once someone sharedwith me, I was so in my head
about a presentation.
And afterward, I had practicedlike a million times.
I can't tell you.
It was a very, it was one of thefirst big presentations I gave.
And they they commented, someoneI look up to dearly commented,
commented afterward and waslike, your tone, your pace, your
pauses were perfect.
Your alliteration was perfect.
(16:39):
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Like, I'm so glad they sharedthat with me because I was in my
head the whole time.
But the fact that I had put somuch effort into the practice as
it makes progress for what I'mdoing, it showed through the
audience and they were able torecognize that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Yeah.
Oh, that's amazing.
I love that.
Okay, the third V is visual.
And that is your body language,your facial expressions, and
essentially what they're seeingin front of them, right?
As the audience.
And that's, can you guess howmany percent that is, MJ?
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
I'm gonna go with if we know the others are like 38
and for vocal.
I'm sorry, vocal seven and umverbal.
I'm mixing the two.
Verbal is seven and vocal is 38.
I'm gonna have to say this onehas to be closer to 60.
SPEAKER_01 (17:27):
Yeah, you're pretty close.
It's about 55% uh visual.
Um, so what that tells us ispeople are really paying
attention to how you show upfirst, like physically, and and
if you are comfortable in yourown skin, if you're comfortable
in front of an audience or infront of one-on-one, um, they're
(17:49):
taking in a lot of already thatinformation and the impact that
you're making on them just fromthat visual before you even
start saying words and and thenyour tone and everything else
comes comes after.
SPEAKER_02 (18:01):
Yeah.
One thing that comes to my mindspecifically when it comes to
body language and facialexpression is eye contact.
I know that during, you know,presenting in public speaking,
eye contact is something huge.
If you're in a smaller audience,um, you know, when you're
younger and you're very, very,very nervous to present, there
you're taught to like look atthe back of the room, right?
(18:22):
Or like imagine people are allwearing like um like silly
birthday hats or something,right?
To kind of ease the nerves.
But as you grow older andcontinue to do this, eye contact
is paid more attention to,right?
And it's gonna look different.
Everybody has a different levelof um comfortability when it
comes to eye contact, but that'salso a form of body language and
how you engage with someone,right?
(18:43):
Looking at them or or looking umnear their face, I should just
say, is showing them that you'retrying to connect with them.
And that's very, very importantas you're trying to get a
message across.
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
Oh, yeah.
Oh my gosh, that is such animportant piece.
Even in uh, I was recentlytalking about this with clients,
even in let's say that firstmeeting that you have with
someone, let's say you're goingto a networking event or a job
fair or something and you'regonna talk to a recruiter, that
first moment where you'reintroducing yourself, you're
(19:14):
shaking their hand, it's soimportant to maintain eye
contact in that moment, right?
Because they're connecting withyou.
Why do you think a lot of timeswhen someone introduces
themselves to me, I immediatelyforget what their name is?
I oh that always happens to me,but it happens because I'm
actually taking in all of thephysical information that I'm
(19:34):
getting.
Their eye contact, how theirenergy is all of that, right?
We're talking about visual andvocal, is over about 90% of the
communication, right?
So I'm not hearing the wordsthey're saying.
Hi, my name is X, because that'sonly 7% of what I'm taking in.
Everything else is what how I'mexperiencing that energy.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Wow.
I that is honestly, that is verytrue to who you are.
So I can vouch.
And that's very true when we'rethinking about, and that goes
back to, right?
It's not about what people aresaying, but it's about how they
made you feel the experience youhad when engaging with them.
So it just goes to show you,right, um, what that looks like
as well.
But we talked a lot about howpublic speaking can bring a lot
(20:19):
of emotions to individuals,right?
And and we started off thisconversation with how it can be,
you know, quite terrifying forsome people.
Um, I will tell you, and andpublic speaking is in all
different spaces, like Imentioned.
I will tell you, preparing myvows and speaking my vows in
front of my family and closestfriends was probably one of the
(20:40):
hardest things I've ever had todo.
And I give presentationsliterally every other day for
more than an hour long,probably.
Right.
I teach, I give lectures.
It's not something that I'm notused to, but it does bring a lot
of emotions, right?
And of course, vows at a weddingis very, in your own vows, is
very different than publicspeaking and teaching high
school students about resumedevelopment or, you know,
(21:02):
training individuals ondifferent career development
topics.
So there's a level of anxietythat kind of comes with any type
of public speaking.
And first, I want to acknowledgethat that's normal.
It's totally normal for you tofeel anxious, for you to also
acknowledge that too, becausethat can help how you navigate
(21:22):
the rest of the public speakingspace too.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
Yeah, I mean, the first step is accepting, right?
Like this is something that canthat that makes me stressed,
that makes me anxious.
And first of all, that's okay.
You're a human being.
And yeah, it is aperformance-based situation that
you're in.
So nothing wrong with feelinganxious.
Um, it doesn't mean that you'renot prepared.
It doesn't mean that you're notknowledgeable enough or anything
(21:47):
like that.
It's just a natural reaction.
But then once you normalize it,what would you say, MJ, is is
some tips that our listeners cantake with them to help manage
their anxiety in that moment?
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
Yeah, I'd say some basic human responses.
So, for example, breathing,right?
Like taking kind of a step back.
Um, deep breathing is veryimportant.
I think that helps a lot.
Something that I really like todo is um put my hand on my
stomach and feel my breath comein and out.
It really helps um keep mepresent in those moments of
nerves.
(22:19):
Um, I've also seen people usedifferent forms of fidgone when
they're speaking to, it helpsthem kind of center that
nervousness with their hands.
Of course, if we're thinkingabout like um physicalness being
observed, that's one thing tothink about.
Something else that I've I'veheard people recommend a ton, I
will say to you, I've actuallynever done it is the power
(22:40):
stance where you are like, youknow, like Superman pose, um,
hands on the hips, uh, and kindof like chest out.
I've never done that, but I hearpeople recommend it all the
time.
And then something else is likethat personal pep talk, right?
About how great you are.
Here's something I have done.
Here's something I have done.
(23:00):
And I will confess this beforegiving a huge presentation or a
presentation for an interview, Ihave pre-recorded a message, a
voice memo for myself, tellingmyself how great I did.
And no matter what the outcomewas, I was well prepared.
I know I did really well, andthat you should be proud of
yourself.
So there is like the pep talkright before, but there's also
(23:22):
like something you can recordfor yourself before to also hear
it after too.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Oh, that's precious.
I love that.
That is very true to who youare.
Um, and I remember when you weretalking about interviews too in
a previous episode, how you dida pep talk for yourself as well
before interviews of you know,I'm qualified.
I know how to do this well, andI'm I'm great at what I do, and
it seems like it's it's workedfor you.
SPEAKER_02 (23:47):
Yeah, you have to a lot of the time when you're
entering the space, right, doingsomething that maybe gives you a
lot of anxiety, interviewing,giving a presentation, you're
gonna get down on yourself.
Why?
Because it's the easier thing todo, right?
It's harder to give to throwfacts at ourselves and speak
truth than it is to, I'm sorry.
(24:09):
It's it's harder to do that andit's easier to just be like,
yeah, you know, like I don't,I'm not great at public
speaking, but I have to do this.
And it feels like a forcedmovement rather than something
you are leaning into to exploreand strengthen yourself on,
right?
Which is why I really believethat practice, no matter what
type of level of practice it is,doesn't make perfect, but it
(24:31):
makes a lot of progress foryourself.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
Absolutely.
It does because when you'repracticing, you're not
necessarily trying to memorizethe content, you're more so
trying to understand how I amdelivering this so it's
relatable to the audience.
And how can you focus on themessage and the transitions from
one point to the other or onestory to the other, right?
(24:57):
Those those are the mostimportant pieces.
And when you're practicing, youget comfortable with using that
language, you get comfortablewith just saying what your what
your message is, but notnecessarily scripting it and
memorizing it word for word.
I think that's what gets peopleinto even more anxiety a lot of
the time, because in that whenyou're in the performance space,
(25:19):
your anxiety gets the best ofyou, you forget what you're
gonna say, and then you get evenmore nervous because you're
like, oh my gosh, what was thatnext word that I was supposed to
say?
And you blank out.
It's very, it's natural, butthere's a lot of chemicals and
hormones happening in your brainin that moment.
So it's it's inevitable thatyou're gonna forget if you're
trying to memorize it word forword.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Yeah, that happened to me last year.
I was invited to do a keynoteaddress, and I had never done
that before.
And I wrote like I wroteeverything I was gonna say out,
and I spent a week straightreading it four times before bed
and like doing my best to notgive it word by word, but like
have the ideas flow the way theydid.
And I remember on that stage, Iswear to you, I remember the the
(26:05):
moment where I missed the one ofthe most important parts, and it
was because I was forcing myselfto do this, and I wasn't
allowing MJ to be her naturalself because I was I was so
freaked out at the sense thatthis was such a big opportunity
at this level.
But then, you know, like a yearlater when I was asked to do
another speech at a graduation,like it was so different, and I
(26:27):
remember preparing differentlyfor that because I had had that
previous experience.
So it really does help when youare not forcing yourself to
memorize um word by word,because then you lose that
message, you lose the wholepoint of it all, right?
Um, what's most important again,going back to those three V's is
who you are.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
So for our audience, MJ, let'ssay that like, okay, I
understand that I need to beauthentic.
I understand that I need tofocus on the message and not
memorize my script, and thatanxiety is normal and natural in
this process, and they startpracticing how to develop like
(27:11):
an impactful message whenthey're presenting.
What are some things that theycan do to help with taking that
presentation to the next level,maybe engaging their audience
and making it moreconversational rather than just
them up in the front lecturing?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
So um, I want to say these are like very quick
pointers to help you, right?
And again, we're thinking abouta slide deck, we're thinking
about you delivering somecontent here.
So definitely if you're having aslide deck, do not
overcomplicate it.
Honestly, if you can use imagesmore than you can use words,
that's gonna come across a lotbetter, right?
So thinking about what thatcould be.
(27:50):
And if you need some text, don'tovercrowd it, right?
We always say that anytime yougive a presentation, it's always
more important what the personspeaking is saying than what's
on the slides, right?
Traditionally, that's kind ofthe message you get across.
So always keep that in the backof your mind.
What you say is gonna be moreimportant than what's on the
slide itself or on the toolyou're using.
(28:11):
Slow down, right?
In the practice and try to keepyour breast present mindset when
presenting to keep yourself at asmooth calm pace, not too, too
slow, right?
We're not trying to put theaudience to rest, but we are
trying to keep them engaged, butnot show them that we're rushed
to get to the finish line.
(28:33):
And something else is I wouldsay it's okay to have notes.
Sometimes I still do that.
Sometimes I have fullpresentation slides in front of
me.
But you want to limit that asmuch as possible because that's
gonna overstimulate the anxietyand in a sense force you to feel
like you have to use the words,no uh word for the notes word
(28:54):
for word to kind of get throughthis presentation, which don't
give off a great visualizationexample for those who are
listening to this as well.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Yeah, I I totally agree with that.
I am someone who likes to havesomething physical with me when
I'm presenting because it givesme comfort.
I 98% of the time don't evenlook at what paper is in front
of me, but just having it withme gives me a little bit of
comfort.
So that could be something thatyou just use metaphorically.
(29:24):
It's like, you know, you havenotes, you don't need those
notes, but they're there.
And also, I do like to have thepresentation slides just so I
can quickly glance to see what'scoming next so I can do my
transitions.
And that that's what helps mewith okay, to make sure that my
story makes sense from one slideto the next so it's not choppy.
Yeah.
Like to do that.
(29:45):
But another thing I would saydefinitely to help with making
presentations moreconversational, more authentic
is engaging your audience.
Like, don't be afraid to askthem questions.
Yes, yeah.
You know, we were talking aboutlike main.
Maintaining eye contact.
When you're maintaining that eyecontact, you can also then ask
(30:05):
that person in the audience aquestion.
And then it just bringseverybody's attention.
Even if somebody's facing out,they're like, oh, what's going
on?
Let me let me pay attention.
And it just takes thepresentation to a whole other
level.
SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
Yeah, it's I love that you mentioned that because
asking questions, doing thecheck-in, right?
Like, how are we doing?
Are we feeling okay?
Where are we?
Does anybody have any thoughtsso far?
And something I like to do atthe end is just to also ensure
that I engage this groupappropriately is say, before you
ask me questions, let me ask yousome questions, right?
(30:40):
To kind of see where they gotwhat they got from me.
And it's almost like a livesurvey just to see how I did and
if I got my message across too.
So if you're comfortable doingthat, that's something to kind
of think about.
But public speaking is not easy,right?
It's definitely a skillstrengthened over time.
(31:00):
And we want to make sure thatour listeners are well prepared,
but also that we acknowledgeyou.
If this is something that you'restruggling with, that we have
some tips to help you preparefor that too.
SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Absolutely.
It is a skill that you developover time.
And it's not anything where ifyou're feeling anxious, if you
feel like, oh, I didn't do mybest in this presentation, that
means I'm no good atpresentations and you know I'm
never gonna improve.
It's not like that.
It is a skill you develop overtime.
(31:30):
So take all of what we'resaying, practice your
presentations, and what we wantto leave you with is know why
you're speaking, know whatmessage you're trying to get
across, what brand you're tryingto put out there in your
interactions with people.
Keep it simple and mostimportantly, stay authentic to
(31:52):
yourself.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you enjoy our show, we askthat you write a review on Apple
Podcasts to help us reach morepeople looking to level up their
career.
SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
Want to connect with us?
Be sure to follow our Instagramsand websites.
SPEAKER_01 (32:07):
Follow CareerRise on Instagram for career advice and
motivation to help you stay upto date on all things career.
Be sure to also visit mywebsite, careerise.org, to book
a career counseling package andaccess free career resources.
My goal is to help you clarifyyour goals, make a plan, and
feel confident in your careerjourney.
SPEAKER_02 (32:29):
You can follow me on Instagram at Career
ConfidentLatina for your dailydose of career advice and my
journey as a first generationLatina counselor.
You can access free resources oreven work with me by visiting my
website,careerconfidence.online.
I want to help you grow yourconfidence and help you reach
your career dreams.
(32:50):
Adios.
All right, listeners.
We want you to know that this isan episode you can share with a
friend or colleague that'spreparing for a big talk.
So enjoy the episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
You are listening to Coffee and Career Hour.
We are your hosts.
I'm Armina.
And I'm MJ.
Two career counselors andfriends chatting about all
things life and career.
So grab a cup of coffee and joinus.
SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
Okay, Armine.
Be honest.
Have you ever stood up to give apresentation and immediately
felt your heart racing, handssweaty, and suddenly forgot
everything you had planned tosay?
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Uh, literally, like every time.
My brain goes completely blank.
Like, who gave me the mic?
I did.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
But no, you're right.
Exactly.
Public speaking is one of thosethings that everybody needs, but
most people actually dread it.
So today we're gonna break itdown for our listeners.
How do you go from shaking instress to confident and clear
when it's your turn to speak?
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
Oh my gosh, I love that because public speaking, I
can't tell you how many times itcomes up in my conversations
with clients, with friends, withanybody that I'm talking to who
has to give some kind ofpresentation, whether it's for a
class, for work, whatever levelthat presentation is, people are
always feeling anxious about it.
(01:29):
So I'm curious, MJ, why do youthink public speaking is so
anxiety provoking for people?
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
Yeah.
Aside from the from what youjust mentioned about how
involved it is within our everypart of our life, right?
Whether it's, you know, um aparty you're at and you're asked
to give a speech, whether it's apresentation you're doing for an
interview or a presentation oran opportunity you're
facilitating some type ofproject or something, it is very
(01:59):
nerve-wracking for a lot ofpeople because all eyes are on
you, right?
And you need to look.
You need to be the person thathas it together and knows what
to say.
You also have to be very calm.
You have to give off this likecool, calm, and collected look.
There's a lot of pressure there.
And that does build on someonewho is either not familiar with
doing it very, very often or mayfeel some type of way before
(02:20):
actually engaging in publicspeaking.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's that performance anxiety,right?
What is everybody thinking ofme?
What about if I forget the wordsor I don't sound smart?
All these like things thatpeople might be thinking in
their minds about publicspeaking.
And you and I have been thereourselves.
We know exactly what that feelslike.
But it is such an important partin our careers and in our just
(02:47):
the way society is these days,whether you're thinking of like
putting up a reel on socialmedia, for example, or you're in
school or in your career,there's so much performance,
quote unquote, or in like publicspeaking that has to happen.
So let's talk a little bit aboutwhy it's such an important skill
set in a person's careerdevelopment.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Well, you know, when you engage in public speaking,
there is a level of presencethat you give off, right?
You give off energy, you giveoff confidence.
And to many people, those whocan execute public speaking very
well are often seen as leadersas well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, leadership issomething that is kind of at the
forefront of people's minds asthey think about their careers,
right?
Like what's next?
Um, am I gonna advance in thisspace, right?
What are future opportunities?
So that is such an importantlike image to present when
you're in whatever phase you arein your career.
(03:48):
And public speaking is likedirectly tied to how people see
you as a leader or if they seeyou as somebody that can take on
more responsibility in thatgiven space, right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
Yeah.
I want to say public speakingnot only happens at a grand
level, right?
It can mean you're presenting to500 people at a conference or
you are facilitating a large um,let's say, presentation or
meeting for like maybe 50 peopleor less, but it also happens
when you're connecting like in asmaller group.
And that is a level of presenceyou also give off as well.
(04:23):
When you're public speaking,you're not just showing your
skill set of public speaking,but how you clearly communicate,
break down ideas, engage with anaudience, right?
So it's a multi-layered skillset that you have when you're
engaging in public speaking aswell, which is why it's so
critical because you're not justshowing one skill, but many at
once.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
I love that you kind of brought it down to it's also
in just the way you interactwith someone even on a
one-on-one scale, right?
It doesn't have to be this grandthing.
And really when we think aboutlike what employers are looking
for, and we talk about this alot throughout the podcast and
previous episodes too, about theconcept of skills-based hiring
and how employers value somebodywho can communicate effectively,
(05:05):
uh, whatever scale that may be,right?
Or somebody who can get theirideas across clearly.
And that's really at the core ofwhat public speaking is.
So today we want to talk alittle bit about how people can
clearly and effectivelycommunicate and quote unquote
speak in public settings.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
Yeah.
One of those ways, and we'vetalked about it, I think we've
referenced it multiple timesalready, is through
presentations, right?
A presentation can be somethingthat can be accompanied with a
slide deck, or it is just anoral presentation of information
you're sharing, of new ideasthat you're also offering as
well.
So presentations are a huge partbecause they're probably half of
(05:48):
the content of what you're goingto share with someone.
And it's important to understandhow to create something that can
engage multiple audiences or thedirect audience or population
that you're working with, butalso how to get your message
across.
SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, when when we thinkabout, I guess I'm curious, like
when you do your presentationstoo, um day, how do you normally
structure your thoughts to makesure that the message goes
across clearly?
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
I love that question because over the last, let's
see, how old am I?
Over the last eight years, Iwant to say, maybe um like six
years, I've grown a lot in thespace of public speaking.
Not only through the work that Ido, but through career
confidence, I've had to work andcreate presentations for various
(06:37):
different populations, breakingdown um complex ideas in the
world of career development,right, for younger audiences.
And when I do that, in my brain,it makes complete sense what I'm
trying to do.
But when we're thinkingintentionally about who we're
talking with, you kind of haveto center yourself and
understand what is the messageyou want to get across.
So for me, it really comes downto what is the main point or
(07:00):
what are the few things ofthemes that I kind of want to
focus on and how can I begin toengage this audience on this
idea or concept that they'rehere for, that they may want to
be here for, or that they werealso like, I don't want to say
forced, but encouraged to alsobe here for too.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Yeah, I think that's such an important point of like
making note of who is listeningto you because the information
needs to be digestible for theperson in front of you, right?
I was challenged with thisrecently through Career Rise
when I had to develop careercontent for a much younger
audience.
Uh I'm typically used to workingwith adult populations, college
(07:40):
students, right?
And then this project that I hadtaken on, I'm developing content
for anybody from middle schoolall the way to maybe mid-20s.
So I had to think about how Ican extend my expand my
horizons, the language I'musing, the slide dex I'm putting
together has to be relatable toa middle schooler and a high
(08:02):
schooler and like an 18,20-year-old individual.
So it was a challenge for me anda stretch, but I a good one that
I really enjoyed learning.
SPEAKER_02 (08:11):
Yeah, a couple tips I think we can offer for you
creating for our for you, ourlisteners, creating
presentations and you know,taking these like large
concepts.
Um, something I did very earlyon, and this is totally natural
to do, was I would jam-pack.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna think ofa traditional presentation with
a slide deck.
That's kind of where I'm gonnago with this.
So I want you to also envisionthat too.
(08:32):
For those of you listening, Iwould jam-pack that slide deck
with text when I was youngerbecause I was so reliant.
I would use my slide deck as acrutch, right?
And I would jam pack it with allthe information, I would cite it
all as a college student andmade sure whatever I talked
about was regurgitated on theslide as well.
I did that for a couple ofreasons.
I think I've gotten so muchbetter over the years, but I
(08:55):
also wanted to think about thedifferent ways people learn,
right?
And something that I often wouldcome back to is is this?
And I would ask myself is isthis the easiest and simplest
way to get this message acrossor this information?
Because you want to keep itsimple.
No matter how complex it is,you're gonna have different
engagement levels through youraudience.
And you want to come back to isthis, like you said, is this
(09:17):
information simple, digestiblefor this population?
So whatever idea you're workingwith or accompaniment in terms
of tools, make sure it's easyand it's clear for those
engaged.
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's it's so funnybecause when we think of like a
really well thought outpresentation, we may think of
like very content-heavy.
Yeah.
Make sure there's all thisresearch and data and all these
things to back up what you'resaying.
But ultimately what sticks withpeople is more of like that
relatable content.
Yeah.
That's a little bit simpler andreally the story aspect, which
(09:52):
is what I've come to learn overtime too.
And there's actually big um uhbooks about this too, on how
important storytelling is ingetting your message across.
Because humans, we connectthrough stories, right?
And we may forget all of thelike quote unquote practical
information that's being sharedwith us, but that one story that
(10:14):
um the presenter is sharing issomething that we will stick
with, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Story sharing is something thathas become more and more
prevalent as we have wanted toconnect with individuals with
the added use of technology.
We have that is the one way wechoose to connect with each
other, just sharing our stories.
And you mentioned somethingabout like, you know, we may not
remember the math.
I'm thinking about, you know,um, someone in my life who's
(10:42):
very logical and hispresentations are always very
like white and black, you know,very equation heavy.
He's also a scientist, all thesedifferent things.
And mine are very colorful orlike very, you know, like fun, I
guess, not to say that he's notfun, but kind of.
Um, and it's not what you'regetting at Armin A's.
It's not necessarily thelanguage or the information we
want them to exactly know, butit's also the way they felt, how
(11:04):
we made them feel, the things wemade them think, right?
Our audience, for example, isnot to just show them or teach
them about content or topics weknow as career counselors, but
it's how to transform yourselfthrough your personal brand, how
to share your assets and yourvalues and your strengths to an
employer, right?
Not just how to know what theyare and how to communicate them.
SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
Yeah, yeah.
It's the impact you leave onevery single person that you're
interacting with on a larger orsmaller scale.
So I love that.
And I like that you connectedthat to a personal brand because
it is, you know, your brand,depending on how people feel
after interacting with you.
That's a big part of what yourbrand is.
SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
Yeah.
I want to say to you veryquickly on that note, please,
when you're whatever we're,well, I shouldn't say wherever.
So let's hold on, let's dialthis back.
Please make sure to include yourauthentic and original self in
each time you present.
I say that being someone whoconstantly tells people when I'm
giving presentations, pleasenote I am not your traditional
lecturer.
I'm here to have a conversationwith you and share information
(12:05):
that can be valuable to help yougrow in any type of way.
So I include humor.
I include, you know, sillythings that happen to me on a
daily basis or examples that Ibelieve are gonna be relatable
with the population I'm workingwith.
And I want the listeners, I wantour listeners to know that
though those aren't things thatshould be absent in your
presentations.
(12:26):
Of course, if you are presentingfor an interview, if you're
giving a more formalpresentation for your job or a
client maybe you're working withor a company in that sense, keep
that level of professionalismand appropriateness.
But it's also okay to still beyou throughout this process.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Yeah, I think that's where the disconnect is for a
lot of folks, where they maystart to feel that anxiety is
because they start to losethemselves in in that
presentation, right?
And and they worry that, oh, ifI say the wrong word or if I
crack a joke here, then they'renot gonna take me seriously, or
uh all these other limitingbeliefs that people might have
(13:04):
around their ability to be agood presenter or speaker.
And ultimately it is you canstill be professional, but throw
in a joke where appropriate, oror make eye contact, or say
something silly, but still it'soverall a professional
presentation, and that's totallyokay.
Even in interviews, we alwaystalk about that too.
(13:24):
Be yourself, it's okay, smile.
Um, that those are those you'redealing with people, and it's
that emotional connection fromone human to the other that
makes sense.
So authenticity really is thesecret sauce here, too.
SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
Yeah, Armin, I do want to stop for a second
because there are also some veryimportant parts of public
speaking that are a little bitmore logistical, if you were to
say, right?
Things that you definitely wantto include or aspects that you
really, really want to payattention to.
And those revolve around thethree B's.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
And those are verbal, vocal, and visual.
Now, this is based off of a lotof research that has been done
by psychologists in the spacewho study communication, and
they have found specifically theone psychologist I'm referring
to, is Albert Myrapion, and he'sfrom UCLA, and he has found that
(14:20):
there's these three keyelements, the three V's, right?
And how much impact each ofthose concept each of those
concepts has in a person'spresentation.
So, for example, there isresearch, she found that verbal,
what you're actually saying, theactual words you're saying, only
makes 7% of impact on youraudience.
(14:41):
I thought that was supershocking.
What do you think, I'm doing?
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
I think so too, because when we're thinking
about what you say, I'm alwayspaying attention to like, am I
understanding, right?
Like, what are the words?
What is the language?
How are they sharing um anddissecting these different
things?
So that's the fact that it'sunder 10% is pretty shocking to
me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
I know.
I was like, oh my gosh, so itdoesn't even matter.
All those words you're puttingon the slides, it does not
matter.
The other one is vocal, which isyour tone, your energy, your
pace, and that's about 38%impact.
SPEAKER_02 (15:16):
I I absolutely agree that this is more than 25%.
Just because, you know, just asa career counselor, these are
elements tone, pace, pause,energy, um, those are all things
I pay attention to when working,you know, in mock interviews
with clients or providinginterview prep strategy.
These are things we focus onbecause how you how you present
(15:38):
yourself does come across a lotof the time vocally, right?
And how you share things.
If I'm talking really, really,really, really fast, I can show
off, be off as nervous orexciting.
Or if I'm like high, high, highenergy, I may not match what the
person in front of me or theaudience in front of me has.
And that also can put beoff-putting too.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The talking fast is a reallycommon thing I see for
interviews and for presentationsboth, because it's where when we
get nervous, we're trying tolike get through this, right?
Like, hey, I just want to dothis and be done with it.
And and it really takes awayfrom the experience and how
people are experiencing you inthat space.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Yeah.
I remember once someone sharedwith me, I was so in my head
about a presentation.
And afterward, I had practicedlike a million times.
I can't tell you.
It was a very, it was one of thefirst big presentations I gave.
And they they commented, someoneI look up to dearly commented,
commented afterward and waslike, your tone, your pace, your
pauses were perfect.
Your alliteration was perfect.
(16:39):
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Like, I'm so glad they sharedthat with me because I was in my
head the whole time.
But the fact that I had put somuch effort into the practice as
it makes progress for what I'mdoing, it showed through the
audience and they were able torecognize that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Yeah.
Oh, that's amazing.
I love that.
Okay, the third V is visual.
And that is your body language,your facial expressions, and
essentially what they're seeingin front of them, right?
As the audience.
And that's, can you guess howmany percent that is, MJ?
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
I'm gonna go with if we know the others are like 38
and for vocal.
I'm sorry, vocal seven and umverbal.
I'm mixing the two.
Verbal is seven and vocal is 38.
I'm gonna have to say this onehas to be closer to 60.
SPEAKER_01 (17:27):
Yeah, you're pretty close.
It's about 55% uh visual.
Um, so what that tells us ispeople are really paying
attention to how you show upfirst, like physically, and and
if you are comfortable in yourown skin, if you're comfortable
in front of an audience or infront of one-on-one, um, they're
(17:49):
taking in a lot of already thatinformation and the impact that
you're making on them just fromthat visual before you even
start saying words and and thenyour tone and everything else
comes comes after.
SPEAKER_02 (18:01):
Yeah.
One thing that comes to my mindspecifically when it comes to
body language and facialexpression is eye contact.
I know that during, you know,presenting in public speaking,
eye contact is something huge.
If you're in a smaller audience,um, you know, when you're
younger and you're very, very,very nervous to present, there
you're taught to like look atthe back of the room, right?
(18:22):
Or like imagine people are allwearing like um like silly
birthday hats or something,right?
To kind of ease the nerves.
But as you grow older andcontinue to do this, eye contact
is paid more attention to,right?
And it's gonna look different.
Everybody has a different levelof um comfortability when it
comes to eye contact, but that'salso a form of body language and
how you engage with someone,right?
(18:43):
Looking at them or or looking umnear their face, I should just
say, is showing them that you'retrying to connect with them.
And that's very, very importantas you're trying to get a
message across.
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
Oh, yeah.
Oh my gosh, that is such animportant piece.
Even in uh, I was recentlytalking about this with clients,
even in let's say that firstmeeting that you have with
someone, let's say you're goingto a networking event or a job
fair or something and you'regonna talk to a recruiter, that
first moment where you'reintroducing yourself, you're
(19:14):
shaking their hand, it's soimportant to maintain eye
contact in that moment, right?
Because they're connecting withyou.
Why do you think a lot of timeswhen someone introduces
themselves to me, I immediatelyforget what their name is?
I oh that always happens to me,but it happens because I'm
actually taking in all of thephysical information that I'm
(19:34):
getting.
Their eye contact, how theirenergy is all of that, right?
We're talking about visual andvocal, is over about 90% of the
communication, right?
So I'm not hearing the wordsthey're saying.
Hi, my name is X, because that'sonly 7% of what I'm taking in.
Everything else is what how I'mexperiencing that energy.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Wow.
I that is honestly, that is verytrue to who you are.
So I can vouch.
And that's very true when we'rethinking about, and that goes
back to, right?
It's not about what people aresaying, but it's about how they
made you feel the experience youhad when engaging with them.
So it just goes to show you,right, um, what that looks like
as well.
But we talked a lot about howpublic speaking can bring a lot
(20:19):
of emotions to individuals,right?
And and we started off thisconversation with how it can be,
you know, quite terrifying forsome people.
Um, I will tell you, and andpublic speaking is in all
different spaces, like Imentioned.
I will tell you, preparing myvows and speaking my vows in
front of my family and closestfriends was probably one of the
(20:40):
hardest things I've ever had todo.
And I give presentationsliterally every other day for
more than an hour long,probably.
Right.
I teach, I give lectures.
It's not something that I'm notused to, but it does bring a lot
of emotions, right?
And of course, vows at a weddingis very, in your own vows, is
very different than publicspeaking and teaching high
school students about resumedevelopment or, you know,
(21:02):
training individuals ondifferent career development
topics.
So there's a level of anxietythat kind of comes with any type
of public speaking.
And first, I want to acknowledgethat that's normal.
It's totally normal for you tofeel anxious, for you to also
acknowledge that too, becausethat can help how you navigate
(21:22):
the rest of the public speakingspace too.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
Yeah, I mean, the first step is accepting, right?
Like this is something that canthat that makes me stressed,
that makes me anxious.
And first of all, that's okay.
You're a human being.
And yeah, it is aperformance-based situation that
you're in.
So nothing wrong with feelinganxious.
Um, it doesn't mean that you'renot prepared.
It doesn't mean that you're notknowledgeable enough or anything
(21:47):
like that.
It's just a natural reaction.
But then once you normalize it,what would you say, MJ, is is
some tips that our listeners cantake with them to help manage
their anxiety in that moment?
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
Yeah, I'd say some basic human responses.
So, for example, breathing,right?
Like taking kind of a step back.
Um, deep breathing is veryimportant.
I think that helps a lot.
Something that I really like todo is um put my hand on my
stomach and feel my breath comein and out.
It really helps um keep mepresent in those moments of
nerves.
(22:19):
Um, I've also seen people usedifferent forms of fidgone when
they're speaking to, it helpsthem kind of center that
nervousness with their hands.
Of course, if we're thinkingabout like um physicalness being
observed, that's one thing tothink about.
Something else that I've I'veheard people recommend a ton, I
will say to you, I've actuallynever done it is the power
(22:40):
stance where you are like, youknow, like Superman pose, um,
hands on the hips, uh, and kindof like chest out.
I've never done that, but I hearpeople recommend it all the
time.
And then something else is likethat personal pep talk, right?
About how great you are.
Here's something I have done.
Here's something I have done.
(23:00):
And I will confess this beforegiving a huge presentation or a
presentation for an interview, Ihave pre-recorded a message, a
voice memo for myself, tellingmyself how great I did.
And no matter what the outcomewas, I was well prepared.
I know I did really well, andthat you should be proud of
yourself.
So there is like the pep talkright before, but there's also
(23:22):
like something you can recordfor yourself before to also hear
it after too.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Oh, that's precious.
I love that.
That is very true to who youare.
Um, and I remember when you weretalking about interviews too in
a previous episode, how you dida pep talk for yourself as well
before interviews of you know,I'm qualified.
I know how to do this well, andI'm I'm great at what I do, and
it seems like it's it's workedfor you.
SPEAKER_02 (23:47):
Yeah, you have to a lot of the time when you're
entering the space, right, doingsomething that maybe gives you a
lot of anxiety, interviewing,giving a presentation, you're
gonna get down on yourself.
Why?
Because it's the easier thing todo, right?
It's harder to give to throwfacts at ourselves and speak
truth than it is to, I'm sorry.
(24:09):
It's it's harder to do that andit's easier to just be like,
yeah, you know, like I don't,I'm not great at public
speaking, but I have to do this.
And it feels like a forcedmovement rather than something
you are leaning into to exploreand strengthen yourself on,
right?
Which is why I really believethat practice, no matter what
type of level of practice it is,doesn't make perfect, but it
(24:31):
makes a lot of progress foryourself.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
Absolutely.
It does because when you'repracticing, you're not
necessarily trying to memorizethe content, you're more so
trying to understand how I amdelivering this so it's
relatable to the audience.
And how can you focus on themessage and the transitions from
one point to the other or onestory to the other, right?
(24:57):
Those those are the mostimportant pieces.
And when you're practicing, youget comfortable with using that
language, you get comfortablewith just saying what your what
your message is, but notnecessarily scripting it and
memorizing it word for word.
I think that's what gets peopleinto even more anxiety a lot of
the time, because in that whenyou're in the performance space,
(25:19):
your anxiety gets the best ofyou, you forget what you're
gonna say, and then you get evenmore nervous because you're
like, oh my gosh, what was thatnext word that I was supposed to
say?
And you blank out.
It's very, it's natural, butthere's a lot of chemicals and
hormones happening in your brainin that moment.
So it's it's inevitable thatyou're gonna forget if you're
trying to memorize it word forword.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Yeah, that happened to me last year.
I was invited to do a keynoteaddress, and I had never done
that before.
And I wrote like I wroteeverything I was gonna say out,
and I spent a week straightreading it four times before bed
and like doing my best to notgive it word by word, but like
have the ideas flow the way theydid.
And I remember on that stage, Iswear to you, I remember the the
(26:05):
moment where I missed the one ofthe most important parts, and it
was because I was forcing myselfto do this, and I wasn't
allowing MJ to be her naturalself because I was I was so
freaked out at the sense thatthis was such a big opportunity
at this level.
But then, you know, like a yearlater when I was asked to do
another speech at a graduation,like it was so different, and I
(26:27):
remember preparing differentlyfor that because I had had that
previous experience.
So it really does help when youare not forcing yourself to
memorize um word by word,because then you lose that
message, you lose the wholepoint of it all, right?
Um, what's most important again,going back to those three V's is
who you are.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
So for our audience, MJ, let'ssay that like, okay, I
understand that I need to beauthentic.
I understand that I need tofocus on the message and not
memorize my script, and thatanxiety is normal and natural in
this process, and they startpracticing how to develop like
(27:11):
an impactful message whenthey're presenting.
What are some things that theycan do to help with taking that
presentation to the next level,maybe engaging their audience
and making it moreconversational rather than just
them up in the front lecturing?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
So um, I want to say these are like very quick
pointers to help you, right?
And again, we're thinking abouta slide deck, we're thinking
about you delivering somecontent here.
So definitely if you're having aslide deck, do not
overcomplicate it.
Honestly, if you can use imagesmore than you can use words,
that's gonna come across a lotbetter, right?
So thinking about what thatcould be.
(27:50):
And if you need some text, don'tovercrowd it, right?
We always say that anytime yougive a presentation, it's always
more important what the personspeaking is saying than what's
on the slides, right?
Traditionally, that's kind ofthe message you get across.
So always keep that in the backof your mind.
What you say is gonna be moreimportant than what's on the
slide itself or on the toolyou're using.
(28:11):
Slow down, right?
In the practice and try to keepyour breast present mindset when
presenting to keep yourself at asmooth calm pace, not too, too
slow, right?
We're not trying to put theaudience to rest, but we are
trying to keep them engaged, butnot show them that we're rushed
to get to the finish line.
(28:33):
And something else is I wouldsay it's okay to have notes.
Sometimes I still do that.
Sometimes I have fullpresentation slides in front of
me.
But you want to limit that asmuch as possible because that's
gonna overstimulate the anxietyand in a sense force you to feel
like you have to use the words,no uh word for the notes word
(28:54):
for word to kind of get throughthis presentation, which don't
give off a great visualizationexample for those who are
listening to this as well.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Yeah, I I totally agree with that.
I am someone who likes to havesomething physical with me when
I'm presenting because it givesme comfort.
I 98% of the time don't evenlook at what paper is in front
of me, but just having it withme gives me a little bit of
comfort.
So that could be something thatyou just use metaphorically.
(29:24):
It's like, you know, you havenotes, you don't need those
notes, but they're there.
And also, I do like to have thepresentation slides just so I
can quickly glance to see what'scoming next so I can do my
transitions.
And that that's what helps mewith okay, to make sure that my
story makes sense from one slideto the next so it's not choppy.
Yeah.
Like to do that.
(29:45):
But another thing I would saydefinitely to help with making
presentations moreconversational, more authentic
is engaging your audience.
Like, don't be afraid to askthem questions.
Yes, yeah.
You know, we were talking aboutlike main.
Maintaining eye contact.
When you're maintaining that eyecontact, you can also then ask
(30:05):
that person in the audience aquestion.
And then it just bringseverybody's attention.
Even if somebody's facing out,they're like, oh, what's going
on?
Let me let me pay attention.
And it just takes thepresentation to a whole other
level.
SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
Yeah, it's I love that you mentioned that because
asking questions, doing thecheck-in, right?
Like, how are we doing?
Are we feeling okay?
Where are we?
Does anybody have any thoughtsso far?
And something I like to do atthe end is just to also ensure
that I engage this groupappropriately is say, before you
ask me questions, let me ask yousome questions, right?
(30:40):
To kind of see where they gotwhat they got from me.
And it's almost like a livesurvey just to see how I did and
if I got my message across too.
So if you're comfortable doingthat, that's something to kind
of think about.
But public speaking is not easy,right?
It's definitely a skillstrengthened over time.
(31:00):
And we want to make sure thatour listeners are well prepared,
but also that we acknowledgeyou.
If this is something that you'restruggling with, that we have
some tips to help you preparefor that too.
SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Absolutely.
It is a skill that you developover time.
And it's not anything where ifyou're feeling anxious, if you
feel like, oh, I didn't do mybest in this presentation, that
means I'm no good atpresentations and you know I'm
never gonna improve.
It's not like that.
It is a skill you develop overtime.
(31:30):
So take all of what we'resaying, practice your
presentations, and what we wantto leave you with is know why
you're speaking, know whatmessage you're trying to get
across, what brand you're tryingto put out there in your
interactions with people.
Keep it simple and mostimportantly, stay authentic to
(31:52):
yourself.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you enjoy our show, we askthat you write a review on Apple
Podcasts to help us reach morepeople looking to level up their
career.
SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
Want to connect with us?
Be sure to follow our Instagramsand websites.
SPEAKER_01 (32:07):
Follow CareerRise on Instagram for career advice and
motivation to help you stay upto date on all things career.
Be sure to also visit mywebsite, careerise.org, to book
a career counseling package andaccess free career resources.
My goal is to help you clarifyyour goals, make a plan, and
feel confident in your careerjourney.
SPEAKER_02 (32:29):
You can follow me on Instagram at Career
ConfidentLatina for your dailydose of career advice and my
journey as a first generationLatina counselor.
You can access free resources oreven work with me by visiting my
website,careerconfidence.online.
I want to help you grow yourconfidence and help you reach
your career dreams.
(32:50):
Adios.
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