December 2, 2023 • 45 mins
Step into the shoes of successful women managing the holiday season bustle, with our special guest, Leading Lady “The Heart Whisperer,"Janell Rardon. Janell is a trauma-informed therapist, award-winning author of Stronger Every Day and Overcoming Hurtful Word, and host of Today's Heartlift with Janell. We tackle the art of navigating difficult conversations and maintaining authenticity among family gatherings, offering valuable tips on active listening and protecting your emotional boundaries. Our deep dive explores the power of non-reactive communication and the significance of taking a mindful pause before responding.
We delve deeper into the subject of compassionate listening, unpacking its role in challenging dialogues. Learn how the practice of breath prayers and nonviolent communication techniques can pave the way for effective communication. As we bring consciousness and communion with God into the limelight, we delve into how they profoundly impact our emotional and mental well-being.
Finally, we address confrontation and conflict, guiding you through healthier, assertive communication. Our conversation revolves around the importance of timing, patience, prayer, and the wisdom of God in navigating these situations. Janell opens up about her experiences with trauma, shedding light on the healing process and what it means to find the confidence in yourself that only comes from security in Christ.
Go to JanellRardon.com for her latest freebie just in time for the Advent season.
Follow this link to the Episode blog--Coffee Chat: Pause & Reflect, for more insight and introspection.
Thank you for taking the time to like, subscribe, share, and comment. Visit leadingladies.life to find out more. Also, follow @leadingladieslife on social. Amber & Lisa are authors of the multi-award-winning book, Leading Ladies: Discover Your God-Grown Strategy for Success, which dives into the power of community and empowering women of faith to rise up and make a difference, using our gifts and faith to shine brightly in the world. Watch the Facebook Live edition on our YouTube Channel @coffeechatladies .
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa (00:10):
Would you be surprised to know that some of the most
successful women of our timeface challenges just like you
and I do?
Hi, I'm Amber and I'm Lisa.
We're authors of the bookLeading Ladies.
Discover your God-grownstrategy for success.
Amber (00:26):
We invite you to join us in an honest, messy-bun
conversation about the thingswe'd rather keep hidden in our
lives.
Lisa (00:34):
Some of those things can keep us from moving forward in
purpose.
Amber (00:38):
So grab a cup of something delicious, kick off
your shoes and hang out with usfor the next 30 minutes.
Good morning everyone, helloand welcome to another coffee
chat with Amber and Lisa, withour special guest Leading, lady
Janell Rardon.
And happy, happy two days afterThanksgiving.
(01:02):
This should be a day.
I think that the third dayafter Thanksgiving you just
should have another day, becausethe turkey is still leftover.
How many have turkey left over?
Still?
We do.
No, we didn't do turkey.
No, janelle, you don't eatturkey.
Lisa (01:21):
I know Turkey and ham Turkey and ham.
Janell (01:24):
It was just a table for two this year.
It was lovely.
Amber (01:28):
Oh yeah, it was lovely and it goes into when you have a
lot of people over at yourhouse for Thanksgiving.
There's the cleaning, there'sthe.
Janell (01:37):
So much work.
Amber (01:39):
There is the table setting Love that part, it's
just.
Janell (01:42):
And then you have people coming into your house Clean
and you don't want to talkSpanning conversation, so a
table for two was very muchreceived well this year.
Table for two what did you eat,janelle?
I had a grilled pork loin Imake a mean one and it was just
yummy, and some mashed sweetpotatoes, which were yummy.
My husband had mashed potatoesI can't have white potatoes.
(02:03):
We had.
He had broccoli.
I had a lovely salad.
It was lovely and I got.
We have this lovely littleItalian bakery that makes just
one little Like the singledesserts, ooh Nice.
I had my once or twice a yearflourless chocolate tort, which
was simply delicious and he hada smoke and cheese cake, so it
was lovely.
Lisa (02:23):
We hope you all had a wonderful thing, and that for
the sake of our guests thismorning.
Janelle is one of our leadingladies in the book.
I love being called a leadinglady.
Janell (02:35):
She's our guest.
Lisa (02:37):
And her chapter is called Live in Courageous Vulnerability
.
Amber (02:42):
Yeah, I have to tell you, janell is probably one of the
premier Christian communicators.
I call her the Christian BreneBrown because that's how much I
love.
She has offers.
She has a podcast that you haveto go to right after here,
besides subscribing to CoffeeChat with Amber and Lisa.
Yes, heart Lift with Janell yes.
(03:04):
I just love everything thiswoman is about and we love
introducing her to you.
Janell (03:11):
Oh, finally, we've been trying so hard to make this
happen.
Lisa (03:13):
I know We've been trying, ridiculous.
Janell (03:15):
That's ridiculous.
Lisa (03:16):
I know, just so you all know, janelle is board certified
life coach, encouraging thosewho have experienced trauma to
live and lead authentically.
And we're just going to dive intoday.
Let's go.
Let's talk about somethingthat's maybe a little broader.
The holiday season can be adifficult time for many.
(03:37):
As much as so many of us love it.
There can be moments.
This is a tough time to getthrough, and even for our
country, our world, there aresome things going on right now.
Let's talk about theThanksgiving holiday.
As we all know, we may have notknown when we were in grade
school, because we were taughtcertain things about this nation
(04:00):
and how this nation started andwhy we have Thanksgiving.
But now that we live in thistime of information, where you
can get both truth and untruth,in seconds at our fingertips.
We now know that maybe thiswholesome holiday is not so
wholesome.
There's great debate I saw itall over my social media People
(04:23):
being conflicted aboutcelebrating or being upset when
people do celebrate, thinkingmaybe they're celebrating the
atrocities that this holiday isassociated with.
I think about Palestine andIsrael.
Janell (04:38):
Sure, you can't not think about it.
Lisa (04:40):
When you walk into a family setting, it gets real
really fast when people havelong feelings.
So let's just talk about itlightly.
We walk into the holiday season, we hit those family gatherings
with Uncle, so-and-so orGrandma So-and-So or even cousin
So-and-So, where we have somevery different thoughts about
(05:02):
life and how it works Gen X, genY, millennium.
Janell (05:06):
so just all there.
Lisa (05:08):
What can you give us to help us make the most of those
moments and tread lightly butsincerely, and genuinely.
Janell (05:17):
There's just no other place I will ever start.
I can't do anything about thelittle three-year-old that is a
hostage on the Gaza Strip, butpray for her.
I couldn't get my mind off ofher.
Of course they put her picturesup and I prayed for her all
Thanksgiving Day because herbirthday was the next day, and I
know they released 39 hostagesyesterday.
(05:39):
I do not know if she was one ofthem, but from a personal
perspective, so that I don'tlive in a state of overwhelm
because that's really what thisis I think we call that in the
work that I do flooding, whereyour window of tolerance just
goes either hyper, boh-vigilant.
So, without all thatpsychological jargon, I just
(06:01):
come down to my own heart.
I don't know where else tostart, it just starts with me.
It starts above all else.
I have to guard my heart.
It's the footing for what I doin my life, in my work,
everything in my life isinfluenced by my own heart.
So I have to walk through thedoorway, cross the threshold
(06:27):
just did it last night ofsomeone else's family gathering
that we were kindly invited toand sit around a table with some
people.
I didn't even know some I knowwell, but, like you said, the
conversation goes and I thinkwhere I began and I study it a
lot is I just become an activelistener.
(06:49):
I become a person who doesn'tneed to fix the situation.
I don't need to write thesituation, I do not need to
share my opinion, I don't needto prove a point, I don't need
to be right.
I have learned the power ofagreeing to disagree, and one of
the skills that I really wantto bring to the table today is
(07:12):
nonviolent communication.
It is life changing and lifesaving.
I have a PDF right here that Ikeep on my refrigerator.
Say what you mean a mindfulapproach to nonviolent
communication.
The book that I read is by OrrinJ Sofer, s-o-f-e-r, and it
gives you actual sentencesbeginning things to say.
(07:34):
So requests for dialogue.
Someone, like a conversation,turned.
Yesterday.
Someone came I was referring toa podcast I was listening to, I
will not say who.
And they were like, oh, how canyou listen to her?
Oh, she's just, oh, she's justevil.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wantedto go what?
But I just took a step back andI would leaned in.
I used this first one.
(07:57):
Would you be willing Just totake a little time to have a
conversation with me about that?
Like, calling someone evil ispretty serious.
That's a heavy call With a nineyear old sitting next to me.
Wow, yeah, because it's veryopinionated.
And I have just been that person.
(08:18):
Yeah, I've been her.
I've been that dogmatic,legalistic, no-transcript,
whatever little adjective youwant to put on that.
And I think COVID took methrough a strainer to find out
who I was without the trappingsof a religious system, to find
(08:42):
out who Jesus Christ really isand was and continues to be in
my life.
So when you do that, when theconversation shifts, first of
all I have to take a deep breath, I have to be very aware and
then go okay, janelle, how areyou going to handle this
situation?
Are you going to choose to be aleading lady?
Am I going to choose to be wise?
(09:04):
Because, honestly, her opinionmeant nothing to me.
It didn't mean anything.
I didn't need to battle it.
I do say in my second book,overcoming Hurtsful Words you
have to know when it's time tolet something just roll off your
back like water off a duck'sback or know that you need to be
assertive and say somethinghonest and loving and might be
(09:26):
needed at the moment.
So it's an art Right.
Lisa (09:31):
And we don't ever want a leading one to believe that
we're just putting on for themoment.
Amber (09:36):
No.
Lisa (09:38):
We sincerely, as Christ followers, we sincerely want to
do what he did, and that is be apeacemaker.
Yes, that's the key, lisa, andI'll acknowledge that there is
far more in common between usthan what we don't have in
common, I think we live in asociety where we live on the
(10:00):
offense and it's easy.
Amber (10:03):
And what I think most about Jesus and in the midst of
his accusers, he said Nothing,Nothing.
What kind of something in thebrain would it take to say
nothing?
Janell (10:18):
Not a zilch.
Exactly, that's a hard one.
That is a hard one because heknew he, just he knew he was God
, but he was also very human.
So we know, we're told that hesuffered all the temptations.
When he was asked what is truth, I'm thinking I can't speak for
Jesus.
But it had to take everythingin him.
(10:40):
It's just quiet the God part ofhim and just be human and stand
there.
And what's at the core of that,Lisa and Amber, what's at the
core of how he could do that?
Let's just really nail thatdown, because I think it's the
secret.
Lisa (10:55):
I think he was secure in who he was.
He was secure in what hispurpose was and I think when we
get in those moments whereaccusations fly and, like Amber
said, we're living on theoffense, we often feel like we
have to fill up the space withsomething to defend our view
(11:17):
ourselves, our thought patterns,and the reality is that we
don't always have to agree.
We won't always agree.
And, like I said earlier,there's far more that we I think
, if we look, there's far morewe can agree on than we have to
disagree on.
Love you sincerely, genuinely.
(11:38):
I want the very best for youand still have opposing opinions
about many things.
Janell (11:46):
I think that leads right into the conversation yesterday
, because this is what I did andthis is something I have
rehearsed and practiced in thetrenches.
This has not come easy,learning how to navigate these
kinds of conversations.
I do a lot of mediation work,so I'm obsessed with it.
Obviously, that's what I love.
I'm very passionate about it.
But what I was able to say wasokay, which we willing to have
(12:08):
more of a conversation.
But then I was like we candisagree on her on the
personhood, okay, but what I betyou will agree with me on is
that the topic was oncompassionate listening.
Yes, and the topic was about,instead of jumping right into
your own comment, it was aboutjust maybe practicing for at
least even one hour.
(12:28):
This is what the message wasone hour before you even give
any of your own opinion, justactively listen and hold that
space for someone so they canjust get it off their chest, I
think one of the things is, whenwe just jump in with our
thoughts and such, we are movingto conflict.
Amber (12:51):
Yes, other than raising the atmosphere in the room to
peace.
So I think that's leading,ladies, is setting a tone.
That is peace setting a tone.
And if we can go into a roomwhere people are like cussing
each other out and stuff and wecan set a tone even if we're the
(13:12):
only one in the room doing it,and that has been much the case
in many of my own situations forsure.
Janell (13:18):
I bet we all can say that.
Lisa (13:21):
I think the key.
I don't think we listen well.
Janell (13:25):
Oh, I don't think so we think we?
Lisa (13:28):
we think it's just about hearing.
It's much deeper than thatListening to what someone else
has to say, hearing what'sbehind their words, because
there's so much more tolistening and communication than
just the words that fly out ofour mouths.
We don't know how to listentoday.
Janell (13:48):
We don't.
Lisa (13:49):
And maybe you hit on something just creating that
exercise where we hold ourtongue.
Janell (13:56):
Hold it.
And the little nine year old.
I have to add this, because alittle nine year old who was
she's super, super wise, she'slike incredible.
Right after that few minutes ofthat comment, my teacher always
says we have two ears and onemouth.
Mm, hmm, I was like to Shay,darling to Shay.
How do you?
Amber (14:16):
this is the thing everyone says you should listen
better.
What is listening better to now?
What is an hour?
Janell (14:24):
No, I'm just saying it.
Amber (14:25):
I'm just saying this because it's automatically.
When you're taking something in, you're automatically thinking
okay, I need to come back to thecomment, I need to process
something and maybe this is waita minute.
Lisa (14:39):
This is the way I feel I got to find a place to interject
that.
Amber (14:45):
Yeah, is there a formula to listening well, Is there a
formula?
Janell (14:48):
Oh, I think we've already given the formula, but
we'll put it in a formulaicequation Pause, take a breath.
You brought out the point.
Most of us are on the offense,but there are plenty that are on
the defense, because we havewhat?
14 defense mechanisms.
So every person we're in aconversation with has
maladaptive defense mechanismsthat they've grown up with.
(15:08):
I don't care how healthy youare, it's nature nurtures.
So I think you immediately havelike pause, and this is where
the practice becomes your rhythm, right?
So I think you've practicedenough.
I've also been trained enoughto be, able to go okay.
Wow, that was a strong comment.
(15:30):
What am I going to do with that?
And I'm hyper aware, there's anine-year-old sitting next to me
and we take that breath.
And that breath to me, is notjust some silly mindful thing,
you can even make it a breath.
Prayer, which I love, is cominginto the forefront, all the
beautiful contemplativepractices, so it can just be.
(15:52):
Help me answer this correctly.
Amber (15:54):
I love your breath prayers.
I love how you incorporate in avery mindful way, through all
that you do, the breath prayer,because it is about the pause
and sucking in the goodness ofGod in that moment.
Janell (16:11):
The grace, the leading lady.
I call them heart lifters.
I'm going to stand in thecenter of my sphere of influence
or sit at the table.
I think it's just you're doingsuch a good job, you're unified
in what we're trying to do forwomen, in helping us just be
healthy.
Dang it emotionally andmentally and that leads to that
(16:32):
spiritual health.
So the formula is justattunement, awareness.
It's taking the moment to pause, it's learning ways to have
conversations.
But even underneath that, youguys, you know we're going to go
right back to that.
Practice is happening in mydaily life.
I am doing what I can.
I am not like the perfect rolemodel for daily Bible reading,
(16:57):
but I am in a state ofconsciousness in my life, at
walking 40 some years withChrist.
It's a state of consciousnessof he's always present, I'm
always talking to Him, I'malways being aware of Him.
I'm looking out my windows innature and I'm like speak to me,
god, prepare me for tonight,prepare me Right.
Yeah, day out process ofcommunion with a God.
(17:21):
That's very real in my life.
Lisa (17:23):
Yeah.
So as I reemphasize this forour listeners today, we pause.
We pause we take a moment to dothat breath prayer.
There's nothing else we cangive them.
Janell (17:34):
I know that I'm a broken record, but you really do have
to have an arsenal, you have tohave a tool, you have to have.
For me, the best one I havefound is that nonviolent
communication.
It's a tool.
My whole work is about givingpeople emotional and mental
health tools.
So in that moment you can go oh, I feel that defense mechanism.
(17:56):
Oh, no, where do I go Pull, Igot it.
Oh, I got to pull.
Caution yeah, I got to pull.
I got to get one of mynonviolent communication skills.
Yeah, I've got to go get putthat tool up.
Does that?
Is that helpful?
Amber (18:09):
Yeah, you know what I'm going to shine the light right
on me.
Okay, yeah, so this is what Istruggle with.
I sometimes play a conversationor a conflict.
I play a conflict that Ianticipate happening at an event
in my head and I'm like I knowI'm going to hear this, so I'm
(18:32):
going to react to that when Ineed to do In the silence of my
rest, I will have that conflictwith someone and then I'll wake
up in a bad mood and I'll makeit.
You have that strife kind ofthing and you want to let it go
and it's in your throat and thatis where I lay, especially with
(18:55):
relatives sometimes, because Ianticipate conflict Closer.
Janell (18:59):
The deeper the cut, the closer the history.
When you have a history I amjust reminded of, it's been a
while since I wrote OvercomingHurts for Words, and so I do
have an acronym in that bookcalled whole.
Someone asked me to repeat it,but I can run over and get my
book if you want me to.
It's over there.
But it's five steps to prepareyourself.
But I do know W was weight andthen H is hold your tongue.
(19:20):
Weight We'll add to the list.
Here O is overlook.
I'll send you the PDF becauseit is extremely helpful.
Amber (19:29):
I have it on a magnet as well.
Janell (19:30):
Available to our listeners.
Yeah, and you just practicethose five.
It's basically what we justsaid.
It's just using a differentverb.
Amber (19:37):
And you know what I say.
Okay me it's a little biteasier, my kids, if my relatives
start picking on my kids, themama bear.
Lisa (19:47):
Oh yes, Step away from the children.
I had two clients this weekprepping for that.
Janell (19:54):
Yeah, what do I do with mama and papa bear?
I should have written anarticle about it.
I know I'm like okay, I know,but it's the same principle.
First of all, you train yourwhole family in nonviolent
communication and whole familyin these processes.
But I think you hit onsomething Amber too, that when
we're at a family gathering, allthe baggage walks through the
(20:15):
door.
All the old narratives walkthrough the door Right.
That doesn't typically happen.
It can at a work or school orother event, church, but more so
with family.
We've got a history and nineout of 10.
(20:35):
It's a muddy history if not 10out of 10.
And yeah.
Amber (20:39):
And I think too, in situations like I'm the middle
child of five, when I go backinto my situation where I'm in a
room with all of my siblings, Ifeel like that little girl
again.
I still feel like I'm half acentury old.
Why do I feel still stuck inthat?
(21:03):
And you're feeling like youdon't hold respect that you do
of your siblings Right, thatmaybe somebody else does and you
just.
I want to prove myself.
Lisa (21:16):
The crazy part is that, while you may feel that I bet
everybody else in the room isfeeling the weight of themselves
as well, and think about thatAll we see is our feeling where
we are placed, and we actuallyreact.
Janell (21:33):
We do we react.
Lisa (21:36):
And not even everybody else in the room is probably
dealing with where they are intheir headspace too Right.
Janell (21:43):
Yeah, and then there's all the non-verbals.
So for me, I'm a highlysensitive person, very intuitive
.
It makes me good at what I do,but it also makes it's a curse
in my life and a vice that manyof times.
So I can be in the room andfeel the atmosphere.
And see the face of someone overthere and look at the eye roll
over there and look at this onthe hood on, and then I'm just
(22:05):
like I don't know what to dowith all of it and I don't know
how to manage all of that.
So I think non-verbal is 93% ofhow we interpret communication.
So, you've got to pay attentionand know that as well.
This is just a skill.
It's one of my three highskills.
Learn to communicate well.
Amber (22:28):
You know what, janelle?
I think too.
I pull back and I just think inmy corner.
Janell (22:34):
Yes.
Amber (22:37):
And is that necessarily a healthy place to be?
Because I can just like.
Janell (22:41):
Well, that's the thing, amber.
I think what I hear you sayingI want any client that I work
with oh, this is what I alwayssay.
I say to myself I want to feelsafe, seen, heard, known and
feel like I belong in whateverroom I'm in, wherever I am in
life.
If I'm in the post office justhappened this week and there was
(23:01):
a skirmish, and of course inthis day and age, you wait and
look for a gun, you look for anexit and I'm like there's no
exit.
What will I go?
What will I do?
What can I do in this situationto be a peacemaker?
But I think you want to be ableto be okay, you, amber, in the
midst of a family, in yourfamily, middle of fifth, to be
(23:25):
so good inside of yourself.
So, like Lisa said, jesus wasso secure and, if I can be okay
in my body, we call thatembodiment right.
There's a lot of talk aboutembodiment, a lot of books
coming out finally about it andnot disembodied, which is what
you're doing when you go shrink,you're going into that
(23:45):
hypo-vigilance state and you'renot being Amber, you're becoming
not yourself.
You're disembodied from yourtrue, beautiful, radiant, all
the things, amber, and I want tobe level.
I want to be okay.
They're doing that, whatdoesn't affect me anymore.
That's been the challenge, andthat is a big challenge.
(24:06):
But if we can be secure andgood in ourselves, then we can
just let it bounce off oraddress it if it's needed, like
please don't use that oldnarrative anymore.
There's no need to bring thatup anymore.
Message and L is not messageand L anymore.
Lisa (24:23):
You have to learn that internally yourself before you
can ever share that with anyoneelse.
Let's take this just to alittle, maybe a little bit of a
deeper or fresher space.
What if the trauma and we allknow trauma is trauma regardless
?
What if the trauma is veryfresh or the realization of
(24:43):
where your trauma came from isvery fresh?
What is acceptable during thisholiday season?
Is it okay to say no, I don'twant to go to this function?
Is it okay to safeguardyourself from being in the
presence of certain people orcertain activities?
What tips can you give us tohelp us preserve where we're at
(25:06):
when we are in that very freshwounded place and sincerely deal
with it well?
Janell (25:13):
Cable for two is what I did on Thanksgiving.
I said that to you guys beforewe got started.
Of course, my kids all live faraway, so it wasn't a year for
us to have them around the table.
I think there are absolutelytimes when you have to protect
yourself emotional boundaries,relational boundaries, without a
doubt.
The way that I would coachsomeone to relay, that
(25:38):
communicate, that is listen.
It's been a tough year or it'sbeen a tough few months.
I really need to just, or weneed, we just need to be a
family this year, or I need tobe alone this year, if that's
truly what you need, becauseUncle Joe or I don't know, I
certainly haven't in my familyline.
(25:58):
Yes, and it might be gravelymisunderstood, exactly, but that
is not your problem.
No, it's not, but it feels.
This is where.
So part two of that ispersonalization, is a defense
mechanism, okay, so it's one ofmy primary ones.
I take everything.
(26:19):
I did it.
It's my fault.
My dad's an alcoholic because Idid something wrong.
I'm a bad person, all the shamemessages.
But if you can, if that's oneof the, if you're relating to
that, our sweet listeners, thenyou're now aware of it.
So I'm hyper aware of it in agood way and it's.
(26:41):
This isn't personal.
I'm not going to take thispersonal, my husband's quietness
over there.
I'm not going to take itpersonal.
It's hard work, it's.
I'm not going to say this issimple, but it's yes.
Yes, if you need, I'm going tobe gut level, honest, because I
always am, as an hour currentlynot in a church, just currently
(27:02):
not.
I've had a lot of I don't knowif they're calling it religious
trauma, whatever they're callingit, these days.
I've had a lot of it and sowe're still taking a deep breath
.
I just can't enter that systemyet, and I know it's okay.
I've worked hard to get it frommy head to my heart.
(27:23):
Is it still hard on a Sundaymorning?
Do I go?
Oh, I'm a terrible person, I'mnot in church, yeah, I still
have those thoughts, but then Igo.
No, you have permission, god iswith you.
Amber (27:33):
One of the things that I have issue with sometimes is I
feel that if the person whocaused me trauma at a specific
event is there, I feel like Idon't want to be there to
confront those feelings oftrauma and I'm a scared of what
(27:55):
I might say.
And I know that people wouldsay that's not healing and
that's not Christ working in you.
But sometimes Christ has towork a little bit harder.
Give me a little bit more timeto process her.
I think that's what the graceof God does is he knows we're
(28:16):
human, we know.
He knows that some things takesure to while to process, and
just because it's a hard placeto be in a room with somebody
who you're feeling that painfrom, just because of that it
doesn't mean you're bad.
Janell (28:32):
It doesn't mean you're bad oh no, no, but it feels that
way it can in the healingprocess, right, and we know
shame is I am bad, guilt is Idid something bad, so we've got
to come to terms with that.
But I think that what you'retalking about, amber, are
triggers, right, so triggers aresmell, they're all sensory.
It can be the nonverbal look onsomeone, it can be them not
(28:55):
talking.
It can be a million things to amillion different people.
So we have to learn how to takethe tension out of those
triggers and it does take prepwork.
You're right to have aconversation in your head.
Oh, my gosh, I think that'sbrilliant.
Let's preparation.
And honestly, if you are in aroom with someone that has big
(29:16):
tea trauma, molestation, sexual,any of those things, verbal
abuse, emotional abuse they cometo you.
You can put your hand up andsay don't come near me, at least
stay away and you stay calm.
I would prefer you not to sitnext to me on the couch, please,
yeah, or you remove yourself.
You don't have to make a scene,you're in charge.
I think this is what I'm hearingmost of all.
(29:37):
The greatest aha for me was youknow what?
I'm in charge of my life, Okay,so a lot of Christ followers go
oh no, you're not in charge.
I'm like, no, no, no, God iswith me, Exactly.
Yeah, His thoughts are mythoughts, His ways are my ways,
and if I believe that I am onewith Christ, I had someone this
(30:00):
past week tell me what I wasthinking.
I know that you're thinkingthis and you're doing it and I'm
like I took a moment.
I really you know what Iprobably wanted to say.
But my biggest cause that Ichampion in my own life is I can
think for myself, I can speakfor myself, I can say no, it's
(30:21):
really okay.
And I said to him don't evertell me what I'm thinking.
How dare you?
No one will ever tell me whatI'm thinking in my life anymore,
Because that's been the bigpart of my trauma religious
spiritual abuse and so it wasvery like I just felt so proud
of myself because it was like no, I'm actually not thinking that
(30:43):
.
So don't tell me what I'mthinking, because you have no
idea and what you're saying isnot truth.
It might be your truth, butit's not true.
Lisa (30:52):
I think it's a good thing as well to talk about.
How do we, let's say a momentneeds to come to confrontation,
let's say it is the right time.
Janell (31:04):
Yes, very good Lisa.
Lisa (31:06):
Okay, let's say it's the right time.
How do we tread those waters?
Can you give us some tips onhow we can tread those waters?
Janell (31:16):
Yes, I'm going to grab my handy paper because this is
how I train myself.
Right, you can insert a pause.
So I love this.
I'd like a moment to gather mythoughts.
I'm not sure.
Let me think about that.
This sounds important.
I'd like to give it some time.
I'd like some time to take thatin.
Can we pause here for a moment?
Those are great ways to startsomething like that.
(31:37):
But I think, lisa, in the momentwhen you're like I need to say
something, the difference hereis between having authority and
then, secondary to that, isbeing aggressive and being
assertive.
And I do talk a lot about thatin my third book, stronger Every
(32:00):
Day.
But the difference withassertiveness and I call it
healthy assertiveness it's whatI have trained myself to learn
to do Healthy assertivenessinvolves a dialogue.
It involves both parties beingwilling to sit at the table and
have the conversation, do thatact of listening.
(32:22):
We were talking about holdingthe space for each other.
So in that moment when you'relike I need to say something, I
need to confront, becausepeacemakers confront Exactly.
Yes, they do, they do.
Price said I came for peace,but I also came with a sword.
That's right, and there is timeto wield a sword.
Lisa (32:44):
Exactly.
I like what you're saying.
Our personalities can be sodifferent and for me, I'm one of
those people.
I think pretty quickly on myfeet and I look at conflict or I
see something happening and allof a sudden I'm seeing way down
the road and I'm like let'sstop it here.
Janell (33:06):
Good.
Lisa (33:08):
If this speaks it right now.
That's not always the bestthing for everyone.
For me personally, I still haveto stop, pause, recognize, not
everybody is ready for that.
And then I have to deal withall that angst you do?
How do you deal with the angstof these very heated, difficult
(33:29):
moments in conflict?
What are some good ways to walkourselves through those very
angsty times?
Janell (33:39):
What's gonna be something none of us wanna hear.
Lisa (33:41):
Just say it out loud, rip the bandage off, patience.
Janell (33:46):
Patience.
The waiting room, right, thewaiting room.
How many waiting rooms have Isat in?
All kinds of waiting rooms.
It's patience.
And I would venture to say,Lisa, have you ever done the
integroom?
Do you even know what it is?
Lisa (33:59):
I do know what it is.
And my children?
I have five children.
They all love to debate what Iam.
Janell (34:05):
What do they debate?
What are they debate?
But John, just this is so fun.
Lisa (34:08):
It goes anywhere between an eight and a one.
Janell (34:12):
There we go.
I just said the same, but a one.
So a one is a reformer, someonelike yourself when you were
talking.
You wanna fix it.
You have a gift of that.
I'm married to that man, who is8% of the time, but he's had to
learn how to manage that gift,just like you.
And that takes, and Idefinitely feel.
(34:33):
What I feel deeply is thatsometimes you'll see the
situation and you see itlong-term and you see it down
the road.
I think that's also the calland office of an intercessor.
You take it to the closet, youtake it boots on the ground in
prayer, walking, seeking God,praying to God, seeking the word
, praying the word over thesituation and then dropping the
(34:57):
wisdom here a little at a time,as that person, because the
other part of confrontation, theother part of living in a
healthy state with other peopleis all the parties have to be
ready.
Lisa (35:11):
Exactly.
It's all about timing.
It is, it is, and understandingthat God has a perfect moment.
He actually really does, he hasa perfect moment.
The greatest comfort for me isknowing he's not caught off
guard by anything.
Janell (35:30):
He never is, we are.
Lisa (35:32):
He's not a slumber.
He doesn't sleep.
He is totally aware of what isgoing on in each mind, in the
midst of the struggle, and heisn't just concerned about
what's perfect timing for you.
He's concerned about perfecttiming for all of us.
Janell (35:49):
The system of the family , Like I work primarily with
family systems.
So, knowing and I love it, I'mobsessed with it and I don't
know why, because it is superhard on me, but you can just see
the light go off there and then, two weeks later, working with
the light go off there, and ithas taught me perfect timing.
(36:11):
Everything really is perfectand beautiful in his timing and
that's Chronos time and Chyrostime.
So Chronos right here,according to the clock.
Right here, right now, with theclock Eternal.
Lisa (36:25):
And God's eternal time.
Janell (36:26):
And I'm not.
Lisa (36:27):
God, no, and it's really a hard concept to grab ahold of.
When we talk about that eternaltime, it is.
The minds really don't catch aglimmer of what that really is
because we're so stuck in rightnow.
Janell (36:46):
Yeah, we are.
It's infallible for our mortalheadspace to wrap around that it
is and that's when it requiresthat daily conscious
relationship with.
I love the way the voice callshim eternal one, the voice
interpretation of the Bible, thetranslation, and I just love
(37:07):
that and I use it and I'm likeeternal one.
Help me see like.
I just interviewed a beautifulman, pastor Alan Wright, and he
just wrote a book called Seeingas Jesus Sees, and he
revolutionized me.
But it was like I really doneed to see like you see Jesus,
(37:29):
because vision is everything.
Exactly, she's a mom, likeyou're a mom of five Now I'm got
grandkids and it's.
I'm a matriarch now in thecenter of this family, and I
want to be a wise matriarch.
Lisa (37:42):
Exactly yes, and you pray that you can be.
The part of being wise is, asyou said, not always responding
giving other people theopportunity to get to the time
and space they need to be, tohave the conversations and do
the things successfully all ofus together.
Janell (38:04):
Take your time, don't force it.
I've had situations recentlywith children and stuff where I
wanted them to just be at peacewith each other.
But they need space we all need.
Amber just beautifully said howmuch she needs time to process.
I'm a processor.
You're more in the moment andreally gifted in that, and I
would want you on my teambecause you would make those
(38:24):
decisions that need to be madein the moment.
But I think that if you can onceagain know who you are, know
yourself and know God Exactly,that's the key.
There's enough counseling booksout there to study for 20
million years.
If that to me, there is it alldown.
I just need to know God andknow myself and then know that I
(38:48):
don't need to be right orperfect or any of those things.
I know you are probably right.
You asked what your work wouldbe.
It would be to know that Idon't need to be right.
I don't need to be right.
I'm gonna be proven rightanyway.
I said that once and you'realways right.
It's so annoying, but give metime to catch up.
So you're once again gonna besomeone that needs to go.
(39:09):
I don't need to be right, nope.
Lisa (39:11):
Don't need to be right, don't have to prove a point.
Nope, as a matter of fact,there's a lot of.
The older I get, the more peaceI have in that realization and
I feel like that is very helpfulunderstanding I don't always
have to have something to say.
No, I can breathe.
Janell (39:34):
It saves so much energy.
I used to leave parties likelast night and be exhausted,
right, but I was reallyenlivened.
I was like, watch out of theage, I'm gonna go like this.
I do wanna add this and seewhat you think, and I think
above all of it is knowing I'mloved.
(39:54):
I already know.
I've had such a journey withunderstanding the love that God
has for me the last two yearsthat I can just be wherever, and
it's the reason I don't have toprove myself.
That I don't need to be rightis because I just know I'm loved
, and a lot.
If you wanna hear what I haveto say, I do say that a lot.
(40:16):
I do that.
That's another beautiful way tosay it.
Do you want?
Lisa (40:19):
my opinion.
Do you want to know?
Janell (40:21):
what I think.
Lisa (40:22):
Do you?
Janell (40:23):
want to know what I think, because I don't need you
to know.
But if you want to know what Ithink, I'm willing to share that
Exactly.
Amber (40:31):
Saves you energy.
Janell (40:32):
You wanna save mental energy for the essentials in
life, and that's part of thatpractice.
Lisa (40:39):
Amber's internet is wavering so she's left and
entered the room multiple times.
So sad because she's got somuch to say and so many good
insights.
She does, I mean, thrilled todeath with this morning.
I'm just wondering if you couldjust come sit and talk to us
every Saturday, is that allright?
Janell (40:59):
I would love that I know this was so awesome.
Amber (41:02):
I wish we all.
Janell (41:02):
We wanted some therapy from Janelle.
This is a conversation.
It's great.
Lisa (41:06):
It's been wonderful and it's everything that I think we
hoped it would be.
We're thankful for yourinvolvement in the book.
Janell (41:14):
And I, like I said, I'm late to the game but I will be
promoting it in January.
Lisa (41:20):
We want you all to know that Janelle's story is quite
poignant, and I know that therewill be many of you that will be
able to read her chapter if youhaven't already, and find
yourself having to deal withsome of the revelation she has.
It's going to be a greatchapter and for those of you
(41:42):
that have not read it, pleaseget your hand on that chapter
seven.
Janell (41:47):
It's a great Christmas gift, I'm telling you it is a
great gift for people to justsit around with a bunch of
ladies, which is my vision forthe future.
Let's just all sit around thetable and let's just talk about
things, and there are so manyconversation starters in this
book.
Lisa (42:05):
I think everybody should have a table talk in the new
year we're putting out a journalto go with the book Fabulous.
It's coming to spring.
We know our month is January.
We are including theconversations from the book, the
questions from the book, but wealso have some new surprises
we're putting in there.
Janell (42:26):
So yeah, guys are awesome.
Amber (42:28):
We're so excited.
I really would love to knowyour prayers.
Lisa (42:33):
Prayer for the women that are listening that perhaps this
will minister to.
Thank you, janelle.
Janell (42:40):
Father, I thank you for Lisa and I thank you for Amber,
and I thank you for this time aswe have spoken.
Time is really important andthis was a chai roast moment,
because we have been trying formonths in chrono's time, to have
our time together, but it wasfor such a time as this and I do
pray.
I pray that women all over theworld would hear how important
(43:04):
it is to stand in the center ofyour, my sphere of influence and
be healthy, be a leading ladywho's mentally, emotionally,
spiritually, relationally andphysically healthy.
What do we need to do, father,to start afresh, to be able to
(43:27):
come into this holiday season,even walk across thresholds and
enter that space as a peacemaker, as someone who knows what to
say, when to say it, how to sayit or when to be quiet.
I want every person listeningto receive the lavish love of
(43:50):
God and know that he sees you,he hears you, he knows you, he
loves you and you belong to him.
In Jesus' name amen.
Lisa (44:01):
Amen, I'm so thankful that you were with us today.
Thank you.
I'm so thankful because we'reafraid if she talks she will
glitch again.
She loves you, she's sendingyou big hearts and, for those of
you that have been listeningwith us today, we just once
again thank you for joining us.
We pray that you all arekicking off your holiday season
(44:22):
with a healthy mindset.
Yes, out there, enjoying themoment.
We love you and we'll see youin a couple of weeks.
Amber (44:31):
In a world that often tries to confine and categorize
bestselling book, leading Ladiesdiscover your God-grown
strategy for success celebratesthe diverse tapestry of women
just like you and their uniquejourneys of faith.
Join Lisa and I as we partnerwith over 30 women from every
hue, age and walk of life,united by one mission to let
(44:53):
Christ shine through our giftswherever we are.
Within the pages of LeadingLadies, you'll find a wealth of
wisdom, inspiration andpractical guidance.
These women share theirpersonal stories, triumphs,
failures and the lessons they'velearned along the way.
Leading Ladies is more thanjust a book.
It's a movement, a call toaction for women of faith to
(45:16):
rise up, support one another andmake a difference in the world.
Together, let's celebrate thestrength, resilience and faith
of Leading Ladies from everybackground and be inspired to
let Christ shine through yourgifts wherever you may be.
Leading Ladies, discover yourGod-grown strategy for success,
available now wherever books aresold.
Would you be surprised to know that some of the most
successful women of our timeface challenges just like you
and I do?
Hi, I'm Amber and I'm Lisa.
We're authors of the bookLeading Ladies.
Discover your God-grownstrategy for success.
Amber (00:26):
We invite you to join us in an honest, messy-bun
conversation about the thingswe'd rather keep hidden in our
lives.
Lisa (00:34):
Some of those things can keep us from moving forward in
purpose.
Amber (00:38):
So grab a cup of something delicious, kick off
your shoes and hang out with usfor the next 30 minutes.
Good morning everyone, helloand welcome to another coffee
chat with Amber and Lisa, withour special guest Leading, lady
Janell Rardon.
And happy, happy two days afterThanksgiving.
(01:02):
This should be a day.
I think that the third dayafter Thanksgiving you just
should have another day, becausethe turkey is still leftover.
How many have turkey left over?
Still?
We do.
No, we didn't do turkey.
No, janelle, you don't eatturkey.
Lisa (01:21):
I know Turkey and ham Turkey and ham.
Janell (01:24):
It was just a table for two this year.
It was lovely.
Amber (01:28):
Oh yeah, it was lovely and it goes into when you have a
lot of people over at yourhouse for Thanksgiving.
There's the cleaning, there'sthe.
Janell (01:37):
So much work.
Amber (01:39):
There is the table setting Love that part, it's
just.
Janell (01:42):
And then you have people coming into your house Clean
and you don't want to talkSpanning conversation, so a
table for two was very muchreceived well this year.
Table for two what did you eat,janelle?
I had a grilled pork loin Imake a mean one and it was just
yummy, and some mashed sweetpotatoes, which were yummy.
My husband had mashed potatoesI can't have white potatoes.
(02:03):
We had.
He had broccoli.
I had a lovely salad.
It was lovely and I got.
We have this lovely littleItalian bakery that makes just
one little Like the singledesserts, ooh Nice.
I had my once or twice a yearflourless chocolate tort, which
was simply delicious and he hada smoke and cheese cake, so it
was lovely.
Lisa (02:23):
We hope you all had a wonderful thing, and that for
the sake of our guests thismorning.
Janelle is one of our leadingladies in the book.
I love being called a leadinglady.
Janell (02:35):
She's our guest.
Lisa (02:37):
And her chapter is called Live in Courageous Vulnerability
.
Amber (02:42):
Yeah, I have to tell you, janell is probably one of the
premier Christian communicators.
I call her the Christian BreneBrown because that's how much I
love.
She has offers.
She has a podcast that you haveto go to right after here,
besides subscribing to CoffeeChat with Amber and Lisa.
Yes, heart Lift with Janell yes.
(03:04):
I just love everything thiswoman is about and we love
introducing her to you.
Janell (03:11):
Oh, finally, we've been trying so hard to make this
happen.
Lisa (03:13):
I know We've been trying, ridiculous.
Janell (03:15):
That's ridiculous.
Lisa (03:16):
I know, just so you all know, janelle is board certified
life coach, encouraging thosewho have experienced trauma to
live and lead authentically.
And we're just going to dive intoday.
Let's go.
Let's talk about somethingthat's maybe a little broader.
The holiday season can be adifficult time for many.
(03:37):
As much as so many of us love it.
There can be moments.
This is a tough time to getthrough, and even for our
country, our world, there aresome things going on right now.
Let's talk about theThanksgiving holiday.
As we all know, we may have notknown when we were in grade
school, because we were taughtcertain things about this nation
(04:00):
and how this nation started andwhy we have Thanksgiving.
But now that we live in thistime of information, where you
can get both truth and untruth,in seconds at our fingertips.
We now know that maybe thiswholesome holiday is not so
wholesome.
There's great debate I saw itall over my social media People
(04:23):
being conflicted aboutcelebrating or being upset when
people do celebrate, thinkingmaybe they're celebrating the
atrocities that this holiday isassociated with.
I think about Palestine andIsrael.
Janell (04:38):
Sure, you can't not think about it.
Lisa (04:40):
When you walk into a family setting, it gets real
really fast when people havelong feelings.
So let's just talk about itlightly.
We walk into the holiday season, we hit those family gatherings
with Uncle, so-and-so orGrandma So-and-So or even cousin
So-and-So, where we have somevery different thoughts about
(05:02):
life and how it works Gen X, genY, millennium.
Janell (05:06):
so just all there.
Lisa (05:08):
What can you give us to help us make the most of those
moments and tread lightly butsincerely, and genuinely.
Janell (05:17):
There's just no other place I will ever start.
I can't do anything about thelittle three-year-old that is a
hostage on the Gaza Strip, butpray for her.
I couldn't get my mind off ofher.
Of course they put her picturesup and I prayed for her all
Thanksgiving Day because herbirthday was the next day, and I
know they released 39 hostagesyesterday.
(05:39):
I do not know if she was one ofthem, but from a personal
perspective, so that I don'tlive in a state of overwhelm
because that's really what thisis I think we call that in the
work that I do flooding, whereyour window of tolerance just
goes either hyper, boh-vigilant.
So, without all thatpsychological jargon, I just
(06:01):
come down to my own heart.
I don't know where else tostart, it just starts with me.
It starts above all else.
I have to guard my heart.
It's the footing for what I doin my life, in my work,
everything in my life isinfluenced by my own heart.
So I have to walk through thedoorway, cross the threshold
(06:27):
just did it last night ofsomeone else's family gathering
that we were kindly invited toand sit around a table with some
people.
I didn't even know some I knowwell, but, like you said, the
conversation goes and I thinkwhere I began and I study it a
lot is I just become an activelistener.
(06:49):
I become a person who doesn'tneed to fix the situation.
I don't need to write thesituation, I do not need to
share my opinion, I don't needto prove a point, I don't need
to be right.
I have learned the power ofagreeing to disagree, and one of
the skills that I really wantto bring to the table today is
(07:12):
nonviolent communication.
It is life changing and lifesaving.
I have a PDF right here that Ikeep on my refrigerator.
Say what you mean a mindfulapproach to nonviolent
communication.
The book that I read is by OrrinJ Sofer, s-o-f-e-r, and it
gives you actual sentencesbeginning things to say.
(07:34):
So requests for dialogue.
Someone, like a conversation,turned.
Yesterday.
Someone came I was referring toa podcast I was listening to, I
will not say who.
And they were like, oh, how canyou listen to her?
Oh, she's just, oh, she's justevil.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wantedto go what?
But I just took a step back andI would leaned in.
I used this first one.
(07:57):
Would you be willing Just totake a little time to have a
conversation with me about that?
Like, calling someone evil ispretty serious.
That's a heavy call With a nineyear old sitting next to me.
Wow, yeah, because it's veryopinionated.
And I have just been that person.
(08:18):
Yeah, I've been her.
I've been that dogmatic,legalistic, no-transcript,
whatever little adjective youwant to put on that.
And I think COVID took methrough a strainer to find out
who I was without the trappingsof a religious system, to find
(08:42):
out who Jesus Christ really isand was and continues to be in
my life.
So when you do that, when theconversation shifts, first of
all I have to take a deep breath, I have to be very aware and
then go okay, janelle, how areyou going to handle this
situation?
Are you going to choose to be aleading lady?
Am I going to choose to be wise?
(09:04):
Because, honestly, her opinionmeant nothing to me.
It didn't mean anything.
I didn't need to battle it.
I do say in my second book,overcoming Hurtsful Words you
have to know when it's time tolet something just roll off your
back like water off a duck'sback or know that you need to be
assertive and say somethinghonest and loving and might be
(09:26):
needed at the moment.
So it's an art Right.
Lisa (09:31):
And we don't ever want a leading one to believe that
we're just putting on for themoment.
Amber (09:36):
No.
Lisa (09:38):
We sincerely, as Christ followers, we sincerely want to
do what he did, and that is be apeacemaker.
Yes, that's the key, lisa, andI'll acknowledge that there is
far more in common between usthan what we don't have in
common, I think we live in asociety where we live on the
(10:00):
offense and it's easy.
Amber (10:03):
And what I think most about Jesus and in the midst of
his accusers, he said Nothing,Nothing.
What kind of something in thebrain would it take to say
nothing?
Janell (10:18):
Not a zilch.
Exactly, that's a hard one.
That is a hard one because heknew he, just he knew he was God
, but he was also very human.
So we know, we're told that hesuffered all the temptations.
When he was asked what is truth, I'm thinking I can't speak for
Jesus.
But it had to take everythingin him.
(10:40):
It's just quiet the God part ofhim and just be human and stand
there.
And what's at the core of that,Lisa and Amber, what's at the
core of how he could do that?
Let's just really nail thatdown, because I think it's the
secret.
Lisa (10:55):
I think he was secure in who he was.
He was secure in what hispurpose was and I think when we
get in those moments whereaccusations fly and, like Amber
said, we're living on theoffense, we often feel like we
have to fill up the space withsomething to defend our view
(11:17):
ourselves, our thought patterns,and the reality is that we
don't always have to agree.
We won't always agree.
And, like I said earlier,there's far more that we I think
, if we look, there's far morewe can agree on than we have to
disagree on.
Love you sincerely, genuinely.
(11:38):
I want the very best for youand still have opposing opinions
about many things.
Janell (11:46):
I think that leads right into the conversation yesterday
, because this is what I did andthis is something I have
rehearsed and practiced in thetrenches.
This has not come easy,learning how to navigate these
kinds of conversations.
I do a lot of mediation work,so I'm obsessed with it.
Obviously, that's what I love.
I'm very passionate about it.
But what I was able to say wasokay, which we willing to have
(12:08):
more of a conversation.
But then I was like we candisagree on her on the
personhood, okay, but what I betyou will agree with me on is
that the topic was oncompassionate listening.
Yes, and the topic was about,instead of jumping right into
your own comment, it was aboutjust maybe practicing for at
least even one hour.
(12:28):
This is what the message wasone hour before you even give
any of your own opinion, justactively listen and hold that
space for someone so they canjust get it off their chest, I
think one of the things is, whenwe just jump in with our
thoughts and such, we are movingto conflict.
Amber (12:51):
Yes, other than raising the atmosphere in the room to
peace.
So I think that's leading,ladies, is setting a tone.
That is peace setting a tone.
And if we can go into a roomwhere people are like cussing
each other out and stuff and wecan set a tone even if we're the
(13:12):
only one in the room doing it,and that has been much the case
in many of my own situations forsure.
Janell (13:18):
I bet we all can say that.
Lisa (13:21):
I think the key.
I don't think we listen well.
Janell (13:25):
Oh, I don't think so we think we?
Lisa (13:28):
we think it's just about hearing.
It's much deeper than thatListening to what someone else
has to say, hearing what'sbehind their words, because
there's so much more tolistening and communication than
just the words that fly out ofour mouths.
We don't know how to listentoday.
Janell (13:48):
We don't.
Lisa (13:49):
And maybe you hit on something just creating that
exercise where we hold ourtongue.
Janell (13:56):
Hold it.
And the little nine year old.
I have to add this, because alittle nine year old who was
she's super, super wise, she'slike incredible.
Right after that few minutes ofthat comment, my teacher always
says we have two ears and onemouth.
Mm, hmm, I was like to Shay,darling to Shay.
How do you?
Amber (14:16):
this is the thing everyone says you should listen
better.
What is listening better to now?
What is an hour?
Janell (14:24):
No, I'm just saying it.
Amber (14:25):
I'm just saying this because it's automatically.
When you're taking something in, you're automatically thinking
okay, I need to come back to thecomment, I need to process
something and maybe this is waita minute.
Lisa (14:39):
This is the way I feel I got to find a place to interject
that.
Amber (14:45):
Yeah, is there a formula to listening well, Is there a
formula?
Janell (14:48):
Oh, I think we've already given the formula, but
we'll put it in a formulaicequation Pause, take a breath.
You brought out the point.
Most of us are on the offense,but there are plenty that are on
the defense, because we havewhat?
14 defense mechanisms.
So every person we're in aconversation with has
maladaptive defense mechanismsthat they've grown up with.
(15:08):
I don't care how healthy youare, it's nature nurtures.
So I think you immediately havelike pause, and this is where
the practice becomes your rhythm, right?
So I think you've practicedenough.
I've also been trained enoughto be, able to go okay.
Wow, that was a strong comment.
(15:30):
What am I going to do with that?
And I'm hyper aware, there's anine-year-old sitting next to me
and we take that breath.
And that breath to me, is notjust some silly mindful thing,
you can even make it a breath.
Prayer, which I love, is cominginto the forefront, all the
beautiful contemplativepractices, so it can just be.
(15:52):
Help me answer this correctly.
Amber (15:54):
I love your breath prayers.
I love how you incorporate in avery mindful way, through all
that you do, the breath prayer,because it is about the pause
and sucking in the goodness ofGod in that moment.
Janell (16:11):
The grace, the leading lady.
I call them heart lifters.
I'm going to stand in thecenter of my sphere of influence
or sit at the table.
I think it's just you're doingsuch a good job, you're unified
in what we're trying to do forwomen, in helping us just be
healthy.
Dang it emotionally andmentally and that leads to that
(16:32):
spiritual health.
So the formula is justattunement, awareness.
It's taking the moment to pause, it's learning ways to have
conversations.
But even underneath that, youguys, you know we're going to go
right back to that.
Practice is happening in mydaily life.
I am doing what I can.
I am not like the perfect rolemodel for daily Bible reading,
(16:57):
but I am in a state ofconsciousness in my life, at
walking 40 some years withChrist.
It's a state of consciousnessof he's always present, I'm
always talking to Him, I'malways being aware of Him.
I'm looking out my windows innature and I'm like speak to me,
god, prepare me for tonight,prepare me Right.
Yeah, day out process ofcommunion with a God.
(17:21):
That's very real in my life.
Lisa (17:23):
Yeah.
So as I reemphasize this forour listeners today, we pause.
We pause we take a moment to dothat breath prayer.
There's nothing else we cangive them.
Janell (17:34):
I know that I'm a broken record, but you really do have
to have an arsenal, you have tohave a tool, you have to have.
For me, the best one I havefound is that nonviolent
communication.
It's a tool.
My whole work is about givingpeople emotional and mental
health tools.
So in that moment you can go oh, I feel that defense mechanism.
(17:56):
Oh, no, where do I go Pull, Igot it.
Oh, I got to pull.
Caution yeah, I got to pull.
I got to get one of mynonviolent communication skills.
Yeah, I've got to go get putthat tool up.
Does that?
Is that helpful?
Amber (18:09):
Yeah, you know what I'm going to shine the light right
on me.
Okay, yeah, so this is what Istruggle with.
I sometimes play a conversationor a conflict.
I play a conflict that Ianticipate happening at an event
in my head and I'm like I knowI'm going to hear this, so I'm
(18:32):
going to react to that when Ineed to do In the silence of my
rest, I will have that conflictwith someone and then I'll wake
up in a bad mood and I'll makeit.
You have that strife kind ofthing and you want to let it go
and it's in your throat and thatis where I lay, especially with
(18:55):
relatives sometimes, because Ianticipate conflict Closer.
Janell (18:59):
The deeper the cut, the closer the history.
When you have a history I amjust reminded of, it's been a
while since I wrote OvercomingHurts for Words, and so I do
have an acronym in that bookcalled whole.
Someone asked me to repeat it,but I can run over and get my
book if you want me to.
It's over there.
But it's five steps to prepareyourself.
But I do know W was weight andthen H is hold your tongue.
(19:20):
Weight We'll add to the list.
Here O is overlook.
I'll send you the PDF becauseit is extremely helpful.
Amber (19:29):
I have it on a magnet as well.
Janell (19:30):
Available to our listeners.
Yeah, and you just practicethose five.
It's basically what we justsaid.
It's just using a differentverb.
Amber (19:37):
And you know what I say.
Okay me it's a little biteasier, my kids, if my relatives
start picking on my kids, themama bear.
Lisa (19:47):
Oh yes, Step away from the children.
I had two clients this weekprepping for that.
Janell (19:54):
Yeah, what do I do with mama and papa bear?
I should have written anarticle about it.
I know I'm like okay, I know,but it's the same principle.
First of all, you train yourwhole family in nonviolent
communication and whole familyin these processes.
But I think you hit onsomething Amber too, that when
we're at a family gathering, allthe baggage walks through the
(20:15):
door.
All the old narratives walkthrough the door Right.
That doesn't typically happen.
It can at a work or school orother event, church, but more so
with family.
We've got a history and nineout of 10.
(20:35):
It's a muddy history if not 10out of 10.
And yeah.
Amber (20:39):
And I think too, in situations like I'm the middle
child of five, when I go backinto my situation where I'm in a
room with all of my siblings, Ifeel like that little girl
again.
I still feel like I'm half acentury old.
Why do I feel still stuck inthat?
(21:03):
And you're feeling like youdon't hold respect that you do
of your siblings Right, thatmaybe somebody else does and you
just.
I want to prove myself.
Lisa (21:16):
The crazy part is that, while you may feel that I bet
everybody else in the room isfeeling the weight of themselves
as well, and think about thatAll we see is our feeling where
we are placed, and we actuallyreact.
Janell (21:33):
We do we react.
Lisa (21:36):
And not even everybody else in the room is probably
dealing with where they are intheir headspace too Right.
Janell (21:43):
Yeah, and then there's all the non-verbals.
So for me, I'm a highlysensitive person, very intuitive
.
It makes me good at what I do,but it also makes it's a curse
in my life and a vice that manyof times.
So I can be in the room andfeel the atmosphere.
And see the face of someone overthere and look at the eye roll
over there and look at this onthe hood on, and then I'm just
(22:05):
like I don't know what to dowith all of it and I don't know
how to manage all of that.
So I think non-verbal is 93% ofhow we interpret communication.
So, you've got to pay attentionand know that as well.
This is just a skill.
It's one of my three highskills.
Learn to communicate well.
Amber (22:28):
You know what, janelle?
I think too.
I pull back and I just think inmy corner.
Janell (22:34):
Yes.
Amber (22:37):
And is that necessarily a healthy place to be?
Because I can just like.
Janell (22:41):
Well, that's the thing, amber.
I think what I hear you sayingI want any client that I work
with oh, this is what I alwayssay.
I say to myself I want to feelsafe, seen, heard, known and
feel like I belong in whateverroom I'm in, wherever I am in
life.
If I'm in the post office justhappened this week and there was
(23:01):
a skirmish, and of course inthis day and age, you wait and
look for a gun, you look for anexit and I'm like there's no
exit.
What will I go?
What will I do?
What can I do in this situationto be a peacemaker?
But I think you want to be ableto be okay, you, amber, in the
midst of a family, in yourfamily, middle of fifth, to be
(23:25):
so good inside of yourself.
So, like Lisa said, jesus wasso secure and, if I can be okay
in my body, we call thatembodiment right.
There's a lot of talk aboutembodiment, a lot of books
coming out finally about it andnot disembodied, which is what
you're doing when you go shrink,you're going into that
(23:45):
hypo-vigilance state and you'renot being Amber, you're becoming
not yourself.
You're disembodied from yourtrue, beautiful, radiant, all
the things, amber, and I want tobe level.
I want to be okay.
They're doing that, whatdoesn't affect me anymore.
That's been the challenge, andthat is a big challenge.
(24:06):
But if we can be secure andgood in ourselves, then we can
just let it bounce off oraddress it if it's needed, like
please don't use that oldnarrative anymore.
There's no need to bring thatup anymore.
Message and L is not messageand L anymore.
Lisa (24:23):
You have to learn that internally yourself before you
can ever share that with anyoneelse.
Let's take this just to alittle, maybe a little bit of a
deeper or fresher space.
What if the trauma and we allknow trauma is trauma regardless
?
What if the trauma is veryfresh or the realization of
(24:43):
where your trauma came from isvery fresh?
What is acceptable during thisholiday season?
Is it okay to say no, I don'twant to go to this function?
Is it okay to safeguardyourself from being in the
presence of certain people orcertain activities?
What tips can you give us tohelp us preserve where we're at
(25:06):
when we are in that very freshwounded place and sincerely deal
with it well?
Janell (25:13):
Cable for two is what I did on Thanksgiving.
I said that to you guys beforewe got started.
Of course, my kids all live faraway, so it wasn't a year for
us to have them around the table.
I think there are absolutelytimes when you have to protect
yourself emotional boundaries,relational boundaries, without a
doubt.
The way that I would coachsomeone to relay, that
(25:38):
communicate, that is listen.
It's been a tough year or it'sbeen a tough few months.
I really need to just, or weneed, we just need to be a
family this year, or I need tobe alone this year, if that's
truly what you need, becauseUncle Joe or I don't know, I
certainly haven't in my familyline.
(25:58):
Yes, and it might be gravelymisunderstood, exactly, but that
is not your problem.
No, it's not, but it feels.
This is where.
So part two of that ispersonalization, is a defense
mechanism, okay, so it's one ofmy primary ones.
I take everything.
(26:19):
I did it.
It's my fault.
My dad's an alcoholic because Idid something wrong.
I'm a bad person, all the shamemessages.
But if you can, if that's oneof the, if you're relating to
that, our sweet listeners, thenyou're now aware of it.
So I'm hyper aware of it in agood way and it's.
(26:41):
This isn't personal.
I'm not going to take thispersonal, my husband's quietness
over there.
I'm not going to take itpersonal.
It's hard work, it's.
I'm not going to say this issimple, but it's yes.
Yes, if you need, I'm going tobe gut level, honest, because I
always am, as an hour currentlynot in a church, just currently
(27:02):
not.
I've had a lot of I don't knowif they're calling it religious
trauma, whatever they're callingit, these days.
I've had a lot of it and sowe're still taking a deep breath
.
I just can't enter that systemyet, and I know it's okay.
I've worked hard to get it frommy head to my heart.
(27:23):
Is it still hard on a Sundaymorning?
Do I go?
Oh, I'm a terrible person, I'mnot in church, yeah, I still
have those thoughts, but then Igo.
No, you have permission, god iswith you.
Amber (27:33):
One of the things that I have issue with sometimes is I
feel that if the person whocaused me trauma at a specific
event is there, I feel like Idon't want to be there to
confront those feelings oftrauma and I'm a scared of what
(27:55):
I might say.
And I know that people wouldsay that's not healing and
that's not Christ working in you.
But sometimes Christ has towork a little bit harder.
Give me a little bit more timeto process her.
I think that's what the graceof God does is he knows we're
(28:16):
human, we know.
He knows that some things takesure to while to process, and
just because it's a hard placeto be in a room with somebody
who you're feeling that painfrom, just because of that it
doesn't mean you're bad.
Janell (28:32):
It doesn't mean you're bad oh no, no, but it feels that
way it can in the healingprocess, right, and we know
shame is I am bad, guilt is Idid something bad, so we've got
to come to terms with that.
But I think that what you'retalking about, amber, are
triggers, right, so triggers aresmell, they're all sensory.
It can be the nonverbal look onsomeone, it can be them not
(28:55):
talking.
It can be a million things to amillion different people.
So we have to learn how to takethe tension out of those
triggers and it does take prepwork.
You're right to have aconversation in your head.
Oh, my gosh, I think that'sbrilliant.
Let's preparation.
And honestly, if you are in aroom with someone that has big
(29:16):
tea trauma, molestation, sexual,any of those things, verbal
abuse, emotional abuse they cometo you.
You can put your hand up andsay don't come near me, at least
stay away and you stay calm.
I would prefer you not to sitnext to me on the couch, please,
yeah, or you remove yourself.
You don't have to make a scene,you're in charge.
I think this is what I'm hearingmost of all.
(29:37):
The greatest aha for me was youknow what?
I'm in charge of my life, Okay,so a lot of Christ followers go
oh no, you're not in charge.
I'm like, no, no, no, God iswith me, Exactly.
Yeah, His thoughts are mythoughts, His ways are my ways,
and if I believe that I am onewith Christ, I had someone this
(30:00):
past week tell me what I wasthinking.
I know that you're thinkingthis and you're doing it and I'm
like I took a moment.
I really you know what Iprobably wanted to say.
But my biggest cause that Ichampion in my own life is I can
think for myself, I can speakfor myself, I can say no, it's
(30:21):
really okay.
And I said to him don't evertell me what I'm thinking.
How dare you?
No one will ever tell me whatI'm thinking in my life anymore,
Because that's been the bigpart of my trauma religious
spiritual abuse and so it wasvery like I just felt so proud
of myself because it was like no, I'm actually not thinking that
(30:43):
.
So don't tell me what I'mthinking, because you have no
idea and what you're saying isnot truth.
It might be your truth, butit's not true.
Lisa (30:52):
I think it's a good thing as well to talk about.
How do we, let's say a momentneeds to come to confrontation,
let's say it is the right time.
Janell (31:04):
Yes, very good Lisa.
Lisa (31:06):
Okay, let's say it's the right time.
How do we tread those waters?
Can you give us some tips onhow we can tread those waters?
Janell (31:16):
Yes, I'm going to grab my handy paper because this is
how I train myself.
Right, you can insert a pause.
So I love this.
I'd like a moment to gather mythoughts.
I'm not sure.
Let me think about that.
This sounds important.
I'd like to give it some time.
I'd like some time to take thatin.
Can we pause here for a moment?
Those are great ways to startsomething like that.
(31:37):
But I think, lisa, in the momentwhen you're like I need to say
something, the difference hereis between having authority and
then, secondary to that, isbeing aggressive and being
assertive.
And I do talk a lot about thatin my third book, stronger Every
(32:00):
Day.
But the difference withassertiveness and I call it
healthy assertiveness it's whatI have trained myself to learn
to do Healthy assertivenessinvolves a dialogue.
It involves both parties beingwilling to sit at the table and
have the conversation, do thatact of listening.
(32:22):
We were talking about holdingthe space for each other.
So in that moment when you'relike I need to say something, I
need to confront, becausepeacemakers confront Exactly.
Yes, they do, they do.
Price said I came for peace,but I also came with a sword.
That's right, and there is timeto wield a sword.
Lisa (32:44):
Exactly.
I like what you're saying.
Our personalities can be sodifferent and for me, I'm one of
those people.
I think pretty quickly on myfeet and I look at conflict or I
see something happening and allof a sudden I'm seeing way down
the road and I'm like let'sstop it here.
Janell (33:06):
Good.
Lisa (33:08):
If this speaks it right now.
That's not always the bestthing for everyone.
For me personally, I still haveto stop, pause, recognize, not
everybody is ready for that.
And then I have to deal withall that angst you do?
How do you deal with the angstof these very heated, difficult
(33:29):
moments in conflict?
What are some good ways to walkourselves through those very
angsty times?
Janell (33:39):
What's gonna be something none of us wanna hear.
Lisa (33:41):
Just say it out loud, rip the bandage off, patience.
Janell (33:46):
Patience.
The waiting room, right, thewaiting room.
How many waiting rooms have Isat in?
All kinds of waiting rooms.
It's patience.
And I would venture to say,Lisa, have you ever done the
integroom?
Do you even know what it is?
Lisa (33:59):
I do know what it is.
And my children?
I have five children.
They all love to debate what Iam.
Janell (34:05):
What do they debate?
What are they debate?
But John, just this is so fun.
Lisa (34:08):
It goes anywhere between an eight and a one.
Janell (34:12):
There we go.
I just said the same, but a one.
So a one is a reformer, someonelike yourself when you were
talking.
You wanna fix it.
You have a gift of that.
I'm married to that man, who is8% of the time, but he's had to
learn how to manage that gift,just like you.
And that takes, and Idefinitely feel.
(34:33):
What I feel deeply is thatsometimes you'll see the
situation and you see itlong-term and you see it down
the road.
I think that's also the calland office of an intercessor.
You take it to the closet, youtake it boots on the ground in
prayer, walking, seeking God,praying to God, seeking the word
, praying the word over thesituation and then dropping the
(34:57):
wisdom here a little at a time,as that person, because the
other part of confrontation, theother part of living in a
healthy state with other peopleis all the parties have to be
ready.
Lisa (35:11):
Exactly.
It's all about timing.
It is, it is, and understandingthat God has a perfect moment.
He actually really does, he hasa perfect moment.
The greatest comfort for me isknowing he's not caught off
guard by anything.
Janell (35:30):
He never is, we are.
Lisa (35:32):
He's not a slumber.
He doesn't sleep.
He is totally aware of what isgoing on in each mind, in the
midst of the struggle, and heisn't just concerned about
what's perfect timing for you.
He's concerned about perfecttiming for all of us.
Janell (35:49):
The system of the family , Like I work primarily with
family systems.
So, knowing and I love it, I'mobsessed with it and I don't
know why, because it is superhard on me, but you can just see
the light go off there and then, two weeks later, working with
the light go off there, and ithas taught me perfect timing.
(36:11):
Everything really is perfectand beautiful in his timing and
that's Chronos time and Chyrostime.
So Chronos right here,according to the clock.
Right here, right now, with theclock Eternal.
Lisa (36:25):
And God's eternal time.
Janell (36:26):
And I'm not.
Lisa (36:27):
God, no, and it's really a hard concept to grab ahold of.
When we talk about that eternaltime, it is.
The minds really don't catch aglimmer of what that really is
because we're so stuck in rightnow.
Janell (36:46):
Yeah, we are.
It's infallible for our mortalheadspace to wrap around that it
is and that's when it requiresthat daily conscious
relationship with.
I love the way the voice callshim eternal one, the voice
interpretation of the Bible, thetranslation, and I just love
(37:07):
that and I use it and I'm likeeternal one.
Help me see like.
I just interviewed a beautifulman, pastor Alan Wright, and he
just wrote a book called Seeingas Jesus Sees, and he
revolutionized me.
But it was like I really doneed to see like you see Jesus,
(37:29):
because vision is everything.
Exactly, she's a mom, likeyou're a mom of five Now I'm got
grandkids and it's.
I'm a matriarch now in thecenter of this family, and I
want to be a wise matriarch.
Lisa (37:42):
Exactly yes, and you pray that you can be.
The part of being wise is, asyou said, not always responding
giving other people theopportunity to get to the time
and space they need to be, tohave the conversations and do
the things successfully all ofus together.
Janell (38:04):
Take your time, don't force it.
I've had situations recentlywith children and stuff where I
wanted them to just be at peacewith each other.
But they need space we all need.
Amber just beautifully said howmuch she needs time to process.
I'm a processor.
You're more in the moment andreally gifted in that, and I
would want you on my teambecause you would make those
(38:24):
decisions that need to be madein the moment.
But I think that if you can onceagain know who you are, know
yourself and know God Exactly,that's the key.
There's enough counseling booksout there to study for 20
million years.
If that to me, there is it alldown.
I just need to know God andknow myself and then know that I
(38:48):
don't need to be right orperfect or any of those things.
I know you are probably right.
You asked what your work wouldbe.
It would be to know that Idon't need to be right.
I don't need to be right.
I'm gonna be proven rightanyway.
I said that once and you'realways right.
It's so annoying, but give metime to catch up.
So you're once again gonna besomeone that needs to go.
(39:09):
I don't need to be right, nope.
Lisa (39:11):
Don't need to be right, don't have to prove a point.
Nope, as a matter of fact,there's a lot of.
The older I get, the more peaceI have in that realization and
I feel like that is very helpfulunderstanding I don't always
have to have something to say.
No, I can breathe.
Janell (39:34):
It saves so much energy.
I used to leave parties likelast night and be exhausted,
right, but I was reallyenlivened.
I was like, watch out of theage, I'm gonna go like this.
I do wanna add this and seewhat you think, and I think
above all of it is knowing I'mloved.
(39:54):
I already know.
I've had such a journey withunderstanding the love that God
has for me the last two yearsthat I can just be wherever, and
it's the reason I don't have toprove myself.
That I don't need to be rightis because I just know I'm loved
, and a lot.
If you wanna hear what I haveto say, I do say that a lot.
(40:16):
I do that.
That's another beautiful way tosay it.
Do you want?
Lisa (40:19):
my opinion.
Do you want to know?
Janell (40:21):
what I think.
Lisa (40:22):
Do you?
Janell (40:23):
want to know what I think, because I don't need you
to know.
But if you want to know what Ithink, I'm willing to share that
Exactly.
Amber (40:31):
Saves you energy.
Janell (40:32):
You wanna save mental energy for the essentials in
life, and that's part of thatpractice.
Lisa (40:39):
Amber's internet is wavering so she's left and
entered the room multiple times.
So sad because she's got somuch to say and so many good
insights.
She does, I mean, thrilled todeath with this morning.
I'm just wondering if you couldjust come sit and talk to us
every Saturday, is that allright?
Janell (40:59):
I would love that I know this was so awesome.
Amber (41:02):
I wish we all.
Janell (41:02):
We wanted some therapy from Janelle.
This is a conversation.
It's great.
Lisa (41:06):
It's been wonderful and it's everything that I think we
hoped it would be.
We're thankful for yourinvolvement in the book.
Janell (41:14):
And I, like I said, I'm late to the game but I will be
promoting it in January.
Lisa (41:20):
We want you all to know that Janelle's story is quite
poignant, and I know that therewill be many of you that will be
able to read her chapter if youhaven't already, and find
yourself having to deal withsome of the revelation she has.
It's going to be a greatchapter and for those of you
(41:42):
that have not read it, pleaseget your hand on that chapter
seven.
Janell (41:47):
It's a great Christmas gift, I'm telling you it is a
great gift for people to justsit around with a bunch of
ladies, which is my vision forthe future.
Let's just all sit around thetable and let's just talk about
things, and there are so manyconversation starters in this
book.
Lisa (42:05):
I think everybody should have a table talk in the new
year we're putting out a journalto go with the book Fabulous.
It's coming to spring.
We know our month is January.
We are including theconversations from the book, the
questions from the book, but wealso have some new surprises
we're putting in there.
Janell (42:26):
So yeah, guys are awesome.
Amber (42:28):
We're so excited.
I really would love to knowyour prayers.
Lisa (42:33):
Prayer for the women that are listening that perhaps this
will minister to.
Thank you, janelle.
Janell (42:40):
Father, I thank you for Lisa and I thank you for Amber,
and I thank you for this time aswe have spoken.
Time is really important andthis was a chai roast moment,
because we have been trying formonths in chrono's time, to have
our time together, but it wasfor such a time as this and I do
pray.
I pray that women all over theworld would hear how important
(43:04):
it is to stand in the center ofyour, my sphere of influence and
be healthy, be a leading ladywho's mentally, emotionally,
spiritually, relationally andphysically healthy.
What do we need to do, father,to start afresh, to be able to
(43:27):
come into this holiday season,even walk across thresholds and
enter that space as a peacemaker, as someone who knows what to
say, when to say it, how to sayit or when to be quiet.
I want every person listeningto receive the lavish love of
(43:50):
God and know that he sees you,he hears you, he knows you, he
loves you and you belong to him.
In Jesus' name amen.
Lisa (44:01):
Amen, I'm so thankful that you were with us today.
Thank you.
I'm so thankful because we'reafraid if she talks she will
glitch again.
She loves you, she's sendingyou big hearts and, for those of
you that have been listeningwith us today, we just once
again thank you for joining us.
We pray that you all arekicking off your holiday season
(44:22):
with a healthy mindset.
Yes, out there, enjoying themoment.
We love you and we'll see youin a couple of weeks.
Amber (44:31):
In a world that often tries to confine and categorize
bestselling book, leading Ladiesdiscover your God-grown
strategy for success celebratesthe diverse tapestry of women
just like you and their uniquejourneys of faith.
Join Lisa and I as we partnerwith over 30 women from every
hue, age and walk of life,united by one mission to let
(44:53):
Christ shine through our giftswherever we are.
Within the pages of LeadingLadies, you'll find a wealth of
wisdom, inspiration andpractical guidance.
These women share theirpersonal stories, triumphs,
failures and the lessons they'velearned along the way.
Leading Ladies is more thanjust a book.
It's a movement, a call toaction for women of faith to
(45:16):
rise up, support one another andmake a difference in the world.
Together, let's celebrate thestrength, resilience and faith
of Leading Ladies from everybackground and be inspired to
let Christ shine through yourgifts wherever you may be.
Leading Ladies, discover yourGod-grown strategy for success,
available now wherever books aresold.
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