November 4, 2024 • 54 mins
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Have you ever noticed how a simple visit with family can catapult you back into old habits and roles? Our recent journey along the Canadian coasts offered the perfect backdrop for reflecting on these family dynamics and the personal growth they incite. Join us as we share heartfelt stories from Newfoundland and Ontario, exploring how time with loved ones can both trigger nostalgia and invite new beginnings. We unravel the special essence of Thanksgiving, a holiday that brings family together without the overlay of religious connotations, allowing us to recognize familiar traits and behaviors that resurface during these gatherings.
Cultural nuances play a fascinating role in shaping our family connections, and we've seen firsthand how these differences manifest across various regions. Through our stories, we reveal how cultural backgrounds subtly influence family roles and expectations, sprinkled with memories of comforting routines like my nana's cherished morning rituals. These anecdotes underscore the beautiful yet intricate nature of family bonds, reminding us of the universal yet diverse emotional tapestry that defines our interactions with loved ones.
Navigating the family landscape can be both comforting and challenging, with old perceptions often clashing with our evolved selves. Our conversations bring to light the unspoken expectations and subtle communications that are part of familial dynamics, illustrating how family members often view each other through the lens of past roles. From organizing a Thanksgiving dinner to embarking on new career paths, we discuss the ongoing evolution of these relationships and the delicate blend of nostalgia and aspiration that defines our journey toward authenticity and personal growth.
We hope this helps a little as you go through your day.
We would love to hear your feedback or questions.
We will respond to both in future episodes.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome and thank you for joining us for Coffee with
Hilary and Les.
Brought to you by the State ofMind Hypnosis and Training
Centre located in the heart ofthe Kawartha Lakes, this is our
almost daily community podcastabout the mind and how we all
might change it in the mostsimple and helpful ways.
(00:31):
Every day we sit staring at thelake and sipping our coffee,
chatting about hypnosis and howto make those meaningful
adjustments to our state of mind, Because nothing's more
important than your state ofmind, because nothing's more
important than your state ofmind, we're back we're mid
(00:53):
morning today, cloudy morning,but it's been a month yeah it's
been a month.
The last one we did was October2nd, and then we took October to
spend time with family yeah wedid a family podcast.
We thought we should do moreand instead we traveled yeah
(01:16):
yeah, I took eight days, ninedays, and went to Vancouver,
where three of my sons live, andwent to Vancouver where three
of my sons live to be with themover Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yep and I went to Newfoundland right after almost
right after a few days after.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And you were gone.
I see my mom.
Nine days, Nine days.
Our poor doggy missed us.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So most of October was spent visiting family.
Yeah, about family.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's like October's the month of family, yeah, about
family.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's like October's the month of family.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
For us, yeah, and that's kind of good Spooky
family.
No, I'm just kidding, becauseit really set us up to.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
you know, we just listened and processed the
October 2nd podcast just alittle while ago.
We wanted to listen to it firstto see where we left off, and I
thought it was a pretty goodpodcast.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Was it yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
What did you think?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I overheard some of it.
Whenever I hear my voice I tryto tune out Because I judge my
own voice, but I think that'snormal, I'm normal, normal, I
swear.
Yeah, going to see family wasgood and emotional and telling
(02:36):
and eye-opening and yeah, Ithink I, I, I have a love hate
relationship with it, I guess ornot hate, that's too strong of
a word like a love and sadnessrelationship.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't know so well, we don't want to talk about our
family members, though we will,but what did you learn by
spending your nine, ten days outthere and the east coast,
(03:18):
because we really went toopposite coasts?
Yeah, we went to exact oppositesides of the country.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah to the very tips .
I learned that I need to stayin touch more with my family.
I learned things that I hadn'tknown about before.
I'm not going to talk aboutthem, but I just learned new
(03:44):
things and I also felt sort ofmore connected to my roots, more
connected by seeing mannerismsthat I have in myself.
(04:07):
That maybe sometimes I'm notloving but that's okay, I'm more
accepting of them now not myfamily, but my own stuff.
Um, yeah, I learned.
I learned to how do I say this?
(04:32):
Not monitor myself, but In thepast when I've gone to see
family, I think we all do thisto some degree.
When we're around our moms andour dads, we sort of regress.
We regress maybe mentally likewe or how we act around them we
(04:56):
become an old version ofourselves no, I would find
myself becoming silly and almostteenager-like.
I know that's weird to say, butthis time I wasn't so much like
that.
I was very aware of how I wasacting and I remember times in
(05:23):
the past I would go to see mymom and I would be constantly
sarcastic or making jokes notalways nice.
I'm really putting myself outhere now, um, but this time was
different.
I I was aware that you knowthat I shouldn't do that and how
(05:44):
in the past she would get likeHillary, that you know that I
shouldn't do that and how in thepast she would get like Hillary
stop it, you know.
So this time was a littledifferent.
I was a grown up.
Finally.
It's a natural thing, isn't it?
Forty years later?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I mean when you're around people that you're not
around a lot, it's very easy tofall into that old version of
yourself yeah, yeah, it's alltheir fault.
I'm just kidding well, ifthat's part of your old version
of yourself, to blame them foreverything?
no, no, no no no, I think that'strue, that that you know that,
(06:29):
um, we fall into old habits, um,because they're really
triggered or or prompted by thisrelationship we have so deeply
established with somebody.
It doesn't always go well.
I mean, it can be.
You know, we're talking aboutThanksgiving for us, canadian
Thanksgiving, the middle ofOctober, celebrating the harvest
(06:50):
, more or less.
But you know, our listeners inthe US are coming up to it in a
couple of weeks, they're goingto have their Thanksgiving and I
think it's the same kind ofidea, because I think
Thanksgiving is that holiday.
That is not, um, that's theright way to say it, it's not
attached to any belief system,right where, um, you know, most,
(07:12):
most, um, faiths have, uh,special days, special holidays,
and they're unique to that faith.
The traditions behind them, thefoods, the music, the
decorations, the gettingtogether, all that stuff, I
think, is based in a faith,whereas Thanksgiving is really,
(07:37):
in North America, sort of anon-faith-based family time,
with days off, work, associatedwith a weekend and largely
focused on.
I shouldn't say it that way,there's certainly a food focus
(08:01):
and there's often an event focus, but we did Thanksgiving and
there's often an event focus,but we did Thanksgiving.
And Thanksgiving is once a yearand it's easy to fall back into
habits around a holiday once ayear.
And that makes it easy to fallinto habits around family,
especially when you only seethem once a year.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And you discover things about yourself Not
necessarily things you want tochange, but sometimes things you
want to change.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, I this time I tried my best to do things with
my family.
Last time my brother and I wentout.
I very much I pulled back andmy mom and my brother went out
and did everything.
(08:56):
But this time and I looked backon that and thought, oh, you
know what, I should haveactually engaged right and I
felt bad about that that Ididn't take that advantage of
that.
So this time I tried to be moreengaged because my brother went
(09:24):
out as well.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Do you find that?
Um, so if you were to haveThanksgiving with your brother
and your mother, since yourparents don't live together, if
you had Thanksgiving with yourbrother and your father, what
would have been different?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
The food Start there.
Dad would probably do a turkeyon the barbecue and Mom we would
do jigs dinner or something.
Cooked dinner.
(10:07):
It kind of goes by two namescooked dinner or jigs dinner.
Basically boiled salt meat,boiling all the vegetables in
the same pot for hours on end,and then peas pudding or peas
(10:35):
boiled in the same thing, andthen a cooked chicken on the
side and you're supposed to havemore chicken than the meat,
than the beef, the salt meat.
But if there's lots of saltmeat I'm eating it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Isn't it funny?
Because what you're describingdoesn't sound appealing, but you
love it.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I love it because I think I grew up on it.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And it's.
I don't know if it's tradition,because we would just have it
randomly, but we would probablyhave that.
We wouldn't do a turkey orsomething.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
consider yourself a Newfoundlander.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes and no.
So the facts are that you wereborn in ontario.
Yeah, from newfoundlanderparents.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yes, you grew up in ontario, so my mom was pregnant
with me in newfoundland, yeah,and then she moved to ontario
and had me okay now you, howmuch of your life did you
actually live in?
Newfoundland.
Two and a half years, that muchyeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Two and a half so the rest of it in Ontario.
Basically yeah, and yet you canjust fall back into
Newfoundlander culture.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Very easily.
Yeah, I even have a weirdaccent that comes out.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I wasn't going to say anything.
But you still have it a littlebit now that you're home.
Little things you're saying soweird.
But that's the power of family,Because that's where you get it
from.
It's not like you got it fromliving down there.
(12:29):
How old were you when you moveddown there to live?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Well, the first time I learned recently, in the last
few days, you didn't even knowit didn't even know it, that mom
had me and almost immediatelymoved back.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So she had me I think she said there for like eight
months.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Eight to 12 months she wasn't exactly sure and then
we came back to Ontario afterthat.
So I was very young, just baby,not even walking, really.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
That changes my opinion of things, because I
didn't know about that, youdidn't know about that I didn't
know about that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And then, when I was finishing up high school, she
wanted to move back and so Iwent along with her, her and
andrew and I went out there andstarted life in st john's and I
(13:40):
finished up high school in stjohn's and then, uh, tried to
make it.
I could have tried harder.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
But yeah, I wanted to be back in Ontario so I just
came back.
Well, like that's such a smallamount of time of your
upbringing to be in that cultureand yet to feel such an
attachment to that culture andthat really just comes to you
through your family.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, and maybe it's because when I would go out to
visit I mean I visitedthroughout my childhood, every
year almost.
I mean I got on a plane when Iwas five by myself to go to
Newfoundland and I would sayalmost every year I went out.
(14:26):
Um, and every year since, and Ithink when I was growing up,
when I would go out it would befor two weeks, three weeks, and
I would be immersed in it, right, everyone around me would be
(14:47):
come on, let's go do this thing.
That's Newfoundland desk,newfoundlandia desk.
So ice fishing Well, I mean,that's everywhere, not
everywhere, but you know what Imean.
Like fishing, my Nana's friendhad goats and chickens, and so I
(15:08):
would be over at her house allthe time.
And the thing aboutNewfoundland I don't know if
it's so much anymore, butsomething that I really loved
would be, um, my mom would sayjust randomly okay, let's just
go over to so-and-so's house andwe'd just show up I don't even
(15:28):
think she called her and wewould sit there and drink tea
and talk about everything forhours and all afternoon spent in
the kitchen just chatting, andso I think that's a cultural
thing too.
Again, maybe not much anymore.
I think people like to knowwhat's happening now if people
(15:50):
are coming over.
But I think you see that in menow, where I'm like let's invite
so-and-so over and it's like,no, we've got to make sure that
they're okay with it, or we'vegot to give them time, maybe
week or you know, oh yeah yeah,we have lots of friends.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
We say you want to come over, come over for a visit
and say, yeah, why don't welook at December?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
yeah, yeah, yeah, second week and then, yeah,
people are busy yeah, um, howmuch of your family?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
well, I'll ask it this way how is family different
in Newfoundland than it is inOntario?
Are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
my family or families in general.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think families in general.
You went down, you visited yourfriend.
She just had her second babymm-hmm you visited your ears,
your great uncle and aunt.
You visited with a whole bunchof people.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And the whole time you were down there for family.
Yeah so you've experienced lotsabout family down there.
What are the differences?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I'm not sure I understand your question.
What are the differencesbetween my family visiting them
out there and then visiting myfamily?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
here, your perception of family there and your
perception of family here, soyou observed lots of family
stuff as a stepping back frombeing a participant yeah what do
you see I mean, besides jigsdinner right, boil the crap out
of a whole bunch of stuff yeah,right, and then love every
(17:39):
minute of it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah right, yeah so yeah Right.
Yeah.
So I would say family there isprobably more.
I mean, I haven't seen lots offamilies in Ontario so I'm not
(18:00):
sure exactly.
But I would say when you go seefamily there they're all.
They're really just huggy andwanting to be you not to leave,
and really wanting to tellstories and remember the past.
(18:30):
Yeah, Does that answer yourquestion I don't know what
ontario families are like.
You've got one, okay, so that'swhat I was asking, a couple
really.
That's what I was asking.
Was it between?
Was it me comparing my familyvisiting family there and
visiting my family in Ontario?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I just mean culturally.
Are there cultural differences?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I don't think so.
I don't know.
Can you spot them Just byknowing?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, I just think that you know experience is is
that culture has a big impact onon family ways and family
expectations, family practicesand family roles.
Yeah, and, and you know I'vebeen, you know I recently went
to my first muslim funeral andsaw how family acts around those
(19:26):
traditions in a totallydifferent way.
You know, I have a number ofclose friends who have different
cultural backgrounds.
My dear buddy, my dear Italianbuddy.
I spent lots of time with hisfamily around their kitchen
table and around holidays andshowing up and being there and I
(19:48):
got to even know his extendedfamily, cousins and aunts and
grandmothers, and all of that Isaw just sort of subtle
different ways.
Now, some of that is justpeculiar to the family, but some
of it is, I think, cultural.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I'm not so sure .
If there's cultural differences, at least not with my family.
So yeah, to speak on culture,no, I would say there's
differences, just becausethere's such a stark difference
between who these people are,right, so yeah.
So my family in Newfoundland is, I don't know if relaxed is the
(20:38):
right way.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's your perception.
It's all good.
Yeah, it's your perception.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
it's all good, yeah, like they're more, they're more,
um, yeah, they're more relaxedand um, whatever, whatever we do
is fine, um, and here, well,it's the same sort of thing, but
just a different atmosphere.
(21:05):
Just a different atmosphereenergetically, probably, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Let's just think about what we talked the first
time, and we talked so muchabout the idea that, although
family is this sort of I don'tknow what to say of I don't know
(21:35):
what to say thisinternationally interpersonal,
uniform in many, many waysconcept that everybody has.
Everybody has a characteristicof everybody.
Families are dramaticallydifferent in all of their
fundamental characteristics.
Yeah, and people's feelingsabout their families, right, the
(21:58):
degree to which they're drawnto them, the degree to which
they're repulsed by them, thedegree to which they are
participating in them, thedegree to which they're repulsed
by them, the degree to whichthey are participating in them,
the degree and ways that theysee themselves as having roles
within them.
You know, it's such a spectrum,such a massive difference in
(22:19):
terms of interpretation andmeaning and value.
And then, of course, expressionin terms of culture and how
culture can impact family.
Different cultures and theroles within families are
different among cultures, like,on the one hand, I look at
(22:39):
family and say this is aconstant across humanity, and
say this is a constant acrosshumanity and, at the same time,
the diversity that people havewithin that right From steps and
(23:00):
halves and siblings and parents, and blending and non-blending
and same-sex families, right,and so many things about family,
no matter.
All those differences, right,are kind of the same and kind of
different at the same time,mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I think for me, what I found with Newfoundland at
least, is I'm starting to noticechanges in routine of my
grandmother, my nana and my momand my mom.
(23:44):
So, and that change in routineI can't stop it, but it does
bring me a little bit of sadness.
You know my grandmother I keepsaying grandmother, my nana, she
you know, I have great memoriesof she wakes up at 2.30 in
(24:06):
morning and, uh, that's herwake-up time and she would.
She's got a wood stove and shewould stack, put wood in the
stove and I'd hear her bangingon the stove.
Uh, like I'd wake up half wakeup at that time when she'd get
up and it was almost comfortingto know that she was up.
There was a little light on inthe living room and now I'm
(24:27):
hearing her getting the woodstove going.
And because she's got, shestill has the wood stove but and
she uses it, but she's gotthese heaters on the wall
underneath the windows and it'sjust not the same right.
So i't hear that.
So I was surprised to get upthe first morning, second
morning, and her not have thefire in right.
(24:52):
So it was kind of sad for me.
I didn't say that to her, butit was a little bit like a
routine, was a bygone.
You know a lot of years of thatand just hearing her up and
going around the kitchen andgetting the stove ready and
(25:15):
everything and I was a littlesaddened by that.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Things change.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It's funny the things we associate with family, in
particular family members mm-hmmright how that becomes part of
how we construct the idea offamily and, yeah, and build
expectations around family yeah,and they're almost like
emotional expectations that youdon't even realize you have
(25:46):
until they're gone so what didyou do while you were with your
family?
What was some cool things thatmade you think about family?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
well, we had a my brother's birthday party.
Okay, we had a jigs dinner onanother night.
We stayed at my uncle's thefirst night that to me is
striking why, isn't that funny.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, you stay at your uncle's.
You don't hesitate to pick upthe phone and say, hey, can we
come and spend the night,because it's a long drive from
the st John's Airport, all theway up to yeah to your
grandmother's house, and whenwas the last time you talked to
him?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
When was the last time you saw him?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
The last time I was there, I guess.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Did you see him last time you were there?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yes, yeah, I stayed there the night before.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
So to me it's just like hi, remember me, I'm your
niece, I'm going to come andstay at your house.
And then it's not just that youwent and without hesitation
stayed at their house, but theybasically showed you some good
hospitality.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh, yeah, he's.
Yeah, his wife Mona wasn'tthere.
She was out in BC visitingtheir son.
Um, yeah, I guess there's not a, there's not a feeling.
Yeah, I guess that's adifference.
(27:42):
Maybe there's despite time goneby and we've never really been
super close, but when we are ineach other's company it feels
super close.
I don't know.
Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Family.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But yeah, he cooked us the next morning.
We had Newfoundland toutons,which are basically fried bread,
Fried bread and mounds ofbutter with maple syrup on top
(28:26):
and eggs and bacon.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So another traditional meal.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Which he probably doesn't eat every day, I bet.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I bet he makes it solely because family is there.
Yeah, I would say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's a thing where it's like
in newfoundland, it just feelslike no time between, no time
really passes between visits andit's not like a what would you
say?
Like a tit for tat, like you'renot, you're not expected to
(29:11):
stay in touch in order to feelwelcome and that's not a bad
thing.
You know, I'm not a bad personfor not staying in touch in that
way.
But our family, like you say,it's interesting because we do
all have our separate corners,almost.
(29:32):
We do all have our separatecorners almost.
You know, we're very, we'revery.
We don't engage with each otherthat often.
I mean I do with my mom andsometimes my brother, but
Sometimes I feel like, you know,I'm an only child or I don't
(29:53):
have any family which is weirdtoo sometimes.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So were there any family triggers?
No, not at all, don't want totalk about that.
No, we won't talk about that.
Did they exist?
Yeah, of course Were theremoments, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And, just like you, falling into an old personality.
Do you feel like others did?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, I think so.
I think we all do.
And if you think about it,there's a saying out there that
kind of encapsulates this.
I'm going to botch it, but itbasically says you know there's.
I think it goes along withfamily too, but there's people
out there that only know youfrom a specific time in your
(30:47):
life, right, so they will treatyou like that time and I think
it's.
I think it's across the board,even with family.
My mom still sees me as ateenager.
She sees my brother as a baby.
I see my brother as a baby.
(31:10):
You know, it's funny, not thathe's a baby, but like I, just my
heart just sees him, you know,standing at the fridge in a
diaper, with the fridge open,crying, like you know.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
There's a memory.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
There's a memory we need to regress to that yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Resolve it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, my Godmemory maybe we need to regress
to that.
Yeah, resolve it, yeah, yeah,yeah, oh my god no, it's amazing
how our experiences stay withus and shape how we behave today
when we're around certainpeople.
I mean that, to me, is one ofthe biggest things about um,
about family is just if I, if Icomplained about family, I would
(31:52):
say that sometimes we trap eachother into often old versions
of ourselves and not the bestversions of ourselves, because
we see past what's the rightword to use the face.
We see past the face that weput on when we're in public yeah
(32:15):
right, we all, we all um.
The more we're in public, themore that face really represents
our genuine self.
But when we're behind closeddoors with family, you know, um,
you know, what I see in youevery day is different than what
(32:35):
others see in you that you seeoccasionally, from time to time
even multiple times in a week.
What you see in me is differentthan what others see in me out
in public, when we get aroundour family.
It's amazing how we change.
I mean, you've noticed that AllI have to do is, you know, go
to a family event and Ibasically change.
(32:59):
I change in the way I speak, Ichange in the way I hold myself,
I change in the way I involvemyself.
You know our families areinteresting confines, they're
interesting expectations.
(33:19):
I think a lot of it isexpectations what we expect of
ourself, what we expect of them,what they expect of us.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And the subtleties in the communication because we've
communicated with each other somuch.
Yeah Right, the subtleties inthe communication because we've
communicated with each other somuch.
Yeah Right, the subtleties.
You know, like we'll go to afamily dinner and somebody will
say something and you won't evennotice.
And I'll come home and say didyou notice what so-and-so said?
And you go no, and I say theysaid this.
And you'd say so what?
(33:49):
And I'd say, oh well, I guessyou have to have lived with them
for 10 years to understand thatthe subtleties there and the
little dig there and the littleprovocation that you might react
to and yeah, um, you knowthere's, there's a whole script
um to the way you interactwithin your family.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
And breaking out of that.
It can be hard because you'vegot to get away from your family
and then come back with them.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, and I remember you know I don't think she'll
mind me saying this I remembermy mom when I was a teenager, I
guess, or early 20s her sayingsomething to the effect of you
know, I know you better than youknow yourself, kind of deal.
Yeah, and maybe at the time shewas right, but certainly not
(34:45):
now.
But she hasn't broken away fromthat right, really Really, how
could she?
Right, yeah, yeah.
So I know there's some thingsthat I've said that have maybe
surprised her.
Or, you know, she might thinkI'm a certain way and then I'm
not.
I mean, I'm a totally differentperson than when I was in a
(35:08):
teenager.
As a teenager, I think, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, yeah, I experienced that too.
So I went out to Vancouver.
Three of my sons live out there.
There used to be four of mysons lived out there.
One moved back home.
So it was kind of weird becausethe initial one, the first, the
eldest, the first one toventure and live in vancouver,
to go to school there, hasreturned back to ontario and uh,
(35:46):
and so it's kind of weird thatthe other three are still out
there.
Very much could never deny thatthey were influenced by their
older brother's presence outthere and that they were drawn
there's a certain safety to gosomewhere that your sibling
already is and they really wentout there sort of in order,
(36:07):
right From the oldest to theyoungest.
Each one in turn found theirjourney out there.
And next thing, you know,they're together and and when I,
when?
I get there and I'm I'm pumpedright because I haven't seen
them.
You know some couple of themlike it, really it's been over a
year and um and like it's just,I gotta see you, I gotta see
(36:31):
you all, and they're pumped.
I to see you.
I got to see you all, andthey're pumped.
I got to see you, dad.
We got to make contact and thenwe get together, like in the
very first couple of hours.
Next thing I know I've got, youknow, three or four of them
together and we're sitting insome restaurant or bar and we're
, you know catching up, and thenI find out that they haven't
seen each other in months.
(36:54):
Right, they live, you know,catching up.
And then I find out that theyhaven't seen each other in
months.
Right, they live in the samecity, they know of each other,
they communicate on and off, um,they, uh, but they don't see
each other much, right.
And then that whole dynamichappens because now they're all
together, which they're notusually, and they're with their,
which they're not usually, andthey're with their dad, which is
very unusual, right, and eventheir dad like I speak for
(37:19):
myself and say I'm not the dadthat I was I see them as men who
are living their lives.
I like to think that we'refriendly, that we have some
things in common, that we wouldenjoy each other's company, and
I would learn about them and thelife that they've created, and
I would learn about them and thelife that they've created.
Then they would learn about meand the life I've created.
Since, since they've been awaylike and not been, you know I've
(37:42):
not been the dad.
You know I make my joke all thetime.
You know, are they off thepayroll?
When you get your kid off thepayroll, the relationship
changes completely.
Right.
Off the payroll, therelationship changes completely,
right, yeah, because there's nomore dependence and part of
them and I saw it in each one ofthem was kind of the need for
um, and they didn't come out andsay that it was more that they
(38:03):
would express themselves asbeing independent,
independent-minded, financiallyindependent and capable, busy
human beings, and they wouldwant me to see that and they'd
want me to acknowledge that.
They'd want me to express umapproval and, probably more
importantly, a certain amount ofpride, right, and so you know
(38:27):
these are.
These are human beings that Ichanged their diaper, right,
like I remember them from theirfirst breath, um and uh.
I've watched them change somuch, um, and establish
themselves and establishthemselves relative to each
other, right.
(38:48):
Seeing that dynamic as a parentis huge.
Seeing how your kids comparethemselves to each other and
where they want to be different,they try to be strikingly
different and where they want tobe the same, there's a certain
amount of bond there that youwatch between and that's
thrilling for me, you know, tosee my sons hug each other and
(39:08):
say things like I love you andI'll see you later, and that
stuff is meaningful to mebecause of the role I play,
right, and so here we are, and Idon't think they'd mind me
telling this story.
So Thanksgiving comes.
So, first of all, this isbeautiful because I you can't
(39:28):
expect to me, you know a youngadult is, you can't expect to me
, you know a young adult is evenwhen they're very, very
successful, they're living on abudget, they're trying to get
ahead.
And expecting them to get on aplane for every single family
event and come back, especiallyfrom Vancouver, is just
unrealistic and it's not fair.
So I've sort of developed thisroutine over the last few years
(39:53):
of going out at Thanksgivingthat I would.
I've done it maybe three, fourtimes now and the last few, last
three, we make a point.
I cook dinner in one of theirplaces usually the same place
and, um, and they, like allthree of them, busy, busy lives,
(40:17):
but immediately said no, I'vebooked off the time.
We're gonna have a thanksgivingdinner on this day, we're gonna
get together on this day, um,and so we talked about what do
you want to?
eat.
And we decided on roast beefand we decided on pies.
And you know, jack wanted tobring this big bottle of
(40:43):
Prosecco that he had won in somecompetition, like it was a
monster, like it was huge andthat was going to be.
You know, I'm bringing the wine.
It was huge and that was goingto be.
You know, I'm bringing the wine.
And sam wanted to pick out piesand get pies from this, um, uh,
farmer's market farm thing thathe was going to, and and I went
out shopping and did the, pickedup the meat, potatoes and
(41:06):
vegetables and, um, and madedinner and they were pumped.
They were so excited and we satdown and even to the point where
a very close friend of Sam's,who lives down the hall from his
apartment, he wasn't doinganything, his wife was away.
(41:27):
So, yes, of course you knowyou're joining us too.
And so there we were, sittingaround the table eating roast
beef and getting ready to havepie and drinking and laughing,
and it was a riot.
We had a great time justlaughing and being together and
(41:48):
a lot of catching up, evenbetween my sons as to what was
going on for them, where theywere were, what they were doing,
how it was going Very, verykind of a Thanksgiving-y dinner
and then I'm not a late nightguy anymore and so you know it's
now.
You know, with the time changeit's like one in the morning for
me, two in the morning for me,and I'm like, okay, I got to go
(42:10):
to bed.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Two in the morning for me and I'm like, okay, I
gotta go to bed.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
And the youngest jumps up and says, well, I got a
new girlfriend, so I'm going togo hang out with her.
And so off he goes, and theother two say, well, we're gonna
stay and drink this great bigbottle of wine that we haven't
opened yet.
And and I go to bed and at likefour in the morning I wake up
(42:38):
to them having an argument inthe other room.
They've been drinking andthey're shouting I don't know
what, but very, very classic,kinda two brothers, right, older
brother, younger brother, kindof crap and sort of very, very
(43:02):
typical, falling into thoseroles that you know are so well
established for their lifetimes.
And of course I walk out andthe shame that goes on their
face immediately, right, andlike, oh shit, we woke up dead.
And I say to them you know,know, you both been drinking, eh
(43:25):
, and they start laughing and Istart laughing and things just,
they just go the way they go.
And and I guess I've just comeback to that idea that we as
family members have establishedroutines, established
conversations, establisheddances that we have with each
(43:48):
other and they're really hard tobreak out of yeah, in spite of
time passing, in spite of growthand development and learning
and becoming something way morethan we were way back then.
We we fall back into that thatfunny old patterns, right, and
(44:11):
and it's very laughable, welaughed about it the next day,
we laughed about it for daysafterwards really.
Um, just because you know theywere, they were just being
brothers and of course I wasjust being the dad and that's
what they laughed about.
Out comes dad and he justresolves the silliness and yeah,
(44:32):
it's really neat the way wesort of fall into old roles and
old scripts.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, and I think that's, I don't know for
everyone.
Myself, I think in my 20s Imean 20s and early 30s I was a
you know what would you?
You say serial student orperpetual student, but when I
(45:07):
could, I I was trying, in frontof my family, to show them like
how successful I was, eventhough I wasn't, but like how,
how?
You know, I had my lifetogether and I knew what I was
doing and I blah, blah, blah,and it wasn't until recently
that I just I don't do thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
But I think that's a younger, I think there's a bank
of years where you try to dothat and then you realize it's
not necessary.
No, I think it's alwaysnecessary myself.
I hear you Well, it's alwaysWell.
I see it's always necessarymyself.
I hear you Well, it's alwaysWell.
I see it in myself when I wasout there.
So since my sons have moved outthere, I've stopped being a
professor at a college anduniversity and become a
full-time hypnotist.
They've always known of my loveof hypnosis.
(45:57):
They've always known about myuse of hypnosis.
They've always known that I'vebeen practicing little bits here
and there, but now it's like afull-time business and it's a
full-time commitment to justlearning and growing and
becoming better and better atthis, this particular skill yeah
and I find myself sitting withmy sons sort of explaining that
(46:20):
to them, and them beingwide-eyed Like, whoa, this is
totally different Dad, this isnot the dad that we've known.
And to openly say to them like,yeah, this is new for me.
This is a whole new chapter inmy life.
It's a whole new commitment andI'm approaching it the way I
(46:41):
approached everything else, likeI want to be as good as I can
be.
I want to, I want to find a wayto turn this business into a
really successful yeah,enterprise that's global, global
right and and this is just allnew and it's all creative and
the look on their face, the waythey were listening and me
(47:03):
saying to them, like at somepoint in your life, you're going
to make changes and it's okaybecause we're constantly
becoming.
We're constantly becoming new.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
So when you look at that, I want to just point out
that if you're looking backwards, it's a teaching moment.
I feel like that was a teachingmoment for you, like you wanted
to express and you wanted toteach your sons, but I don't see
you trying to show your dad howsuccessful you are.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
No, but that's.
I think, it's, but there waslots of that going on too, right
From my son's point of viewright, yeah, yeah.
Like two of the three of themwork in hospitality, they work
in restaurants and bars and theyhave some really interesting
jobs and they wanted me to cometo their place of work.
(48:01):
They wanted me to experiencesort of the quality of the
environment that they were inyep and and their role in it,
their significant role fromtheir perspective.
you know, this is I.
I'm important here.
They, they need me, here I do.
(48:23):
I've learned skills, I'velearned abilities, and there's
very much that was going on too.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
So I see that, as you know, the old age well, not old
age, I forget the word for itbut you know that old tale of
sons and daughters wanting to beaccepted, you know wanting to
their parents to be proud ofthem.
You know disney, really, youknow disney movies, you know it
(48:50):
right.
So I see it as your sons.
Yes, they're looking foracceptance and I'm proud of you
and everything like that.
But I think at some point thatfizzles away and then they're
back.
Just like you are looking backat them.
They're looking back at if theyhave kids and it's more of
teaching moments, right?
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, I think they were surprised sometimes at the
changes in their dad.
I was surprised at them.
Yeah, that's breaking out ofthat cycle, I think, breaking
out of that expectation, thoseboxes, those confines we put on
each other as to how we knowthem and define them and then
(49:35):
giving each other the room Right.
I think that's hard for families, especially, you know, close
family members.
It's hard for familiesespecially, you know, close
family members.
It's hard for them to give eachother the room to grow, to give
each other the space to bedifferent, to stop expecting the
same kinds of things and stoptrying to push each other's
buttons in the ways that wealways have I think, a great
(49:57):
question, especially forfamilies that don't see each
other a lot.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Maybe when they get there and they're wanting to
chat, is you know what's?
New about you or you know, likea question that inspires growth
, showing the growth and youknow that you've grown as a
person over six months a yearand explaining that to your
(50:23):
family so that they can startwith the new you instead of
falling back into old patterns.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah, and to have the communication ability to say to
your family look, this kind oftalk or this kind of treatment
triggers this in me and I don'twant to go there anymore.
I don't want to be that guyanymore.
Yeah, I think my dad saidsomething to me a few years ago
(50:53):
and he said it to me, I think,truly out of curiosity and
surprise.
Think truly out of curiosityand surprise.
So growing up, my dad and Ididn't, you know, we lived
together but we didn't connectreally well and as I became a
young man, we found ourselvesarguing a lot and as I became an
(51:14):
established human being in theworld, I had less and less
interest in being around my dad.
There was a lot of resentmentand frustration there and we
just couldn't seem to get pastold ways of communicating that
just would always go sour.
(51:34):
And then, I don't know, I thinkwe both sort of grew and then
it started to become easier andI didn't react to his triggers
and he didn't react to mytriggers.
And he said to me just a fewyears ago he said it confused
him I think is the term he usedthat it used to be.
(51:56):
We couldn't even stay in thesame room very long and now
we're having fun together and,yeah, there's got to be room for
that.
You've got to make room forthat.
You've got to own your part ofit, I think.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
And then you've got to learn to dance differently,
to not respond in the same way.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, we've talked a lot.
I don't know if we've gotteninto anything serious.
I guess for me the main pointis just how much family is a
program unique to the family.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
And the program includes all the people and all
their foibles and all theirstrengths, all their uniqueness,
in a collective with verystrong rules that we find
ourselves having to break out ofover the decades.
Forgiveness and compassion arean important part of that, but
(53:04):
it's Thanksgiving and you'regoing to be with your family,
whether you want to be or not?
Yeah.
And so to step back and riseabove the battlefield and look
at the dynamics and grow.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Mm-hmm.
All right, that was good.
And growth Alright, that wasgood.
Yeah, we didn't go too deep oranything, but I think that can
be for next time.
Now that we've cut it all outon the table, we'll have phone
calls later.
What are you saying about me?
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Good thing, the family doesn't listen to the
podcast.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Alrighty Okay, so we'll see you later.
We hope you enjoyed today'spodcast and that maybe it helped
even a little.
If you have any questions, wewould love you to send them
along in an email to info atpsalmhypnosiscom.
Thank you for being part of theState of Mind community.
(54:08):
For more information abouthypnosis and the various online
or in-person services we provide, please visit our website,
wwwpsalmhypnosiscom.
The link will be in the notesbelow.
While you are there, why don'tyou book a free one-hour journey
meeting with Hilary or Les tolearn more about what hypnosis
is and how you might use it tomake your life what you want it
(54:30):
to be?
Bye for now.
Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
Welcome and thank you for joining us for Coffee with
Hilary and Les.
Brought to you by the State ofMind Hypnosis and Training
Centre located in the heart ofthe Kawartha Lakes, this is our
almost daily community podcastabout the mind and how we all
might change it in the mostsimple and helpful ways.
(00:31):
Every day we sit staring at thelake and sipping our coffee,
chatting about hypnosis and howto make those meaningful
adjustments to our state of mind, Because nothing's more
important than your state ofmind, because nothing's more
important than your state ofmind, we're back we're mid
(00:53):
morning today, cloudy morning,but it's been a month yeah it's
been a month.
The last one we did was October2nd, and then we took October to
spend time with family yeah wedid a family podcast.
We thought we should do moreand instead we traveled yeah
(01:16):
yeah, I took eight days, ninedays, and went to Vancouver,
where three of my sons live, andwent to Vancouver where three
of my sons live to be with themover Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yep and I went to Newfoundland right after almost
right after a few days after.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And you were gone.
I see my mom.
Nine days, Nine days.
Our poor doggy missed us.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So most of October was spent visiting family.
Yeah, about family.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's like October's the month of family, yeah, about
family.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's like October's the month of family.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
For us, yeah, and that's kind of good Spooky
family.
No, I'm just kidding, becauseit really set us up to.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
you know, we just listened and processed the
October 2nd podcast just alittle while ago.
We wanted to listen to it firstto see where we left off, and I
thought it was a pretty goodpodcast.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Was it yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
What did you think?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I overheard some of it.
Whenever I hear my voice I tryto tune out Because I judge my
own voice, but I think that'snormal, I'm normal, normal, I
swear.
Yeah, going to see family wasgood and emotional and telling
(02:36):
and eye-opening and yeah, Ithink I, I, I have a love hate
relationship with it, I guess ornot hate, that's too strong of
a word like a love and sadnessrelationship.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't know so well, we don't want to talk about our
family members, though we will,but what did you learn by
spending your nine, ten days outthere and the east coast,
(03:18):
because we really went toopposite coasts?
Yeah, we went to exact oppositesides of the country.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah to the very tips .
I learned that I need to stayin touch more with my family.
I learned things that I hadn'tknown about before.
I'm not going to talk aboutthem, but I just learned new
(03:44):
things and I also felt sort ofmore connected to my roots, more
connected by seeing mannerismsthat I have in myself.
(04:07):
That maybe sometimes I'm notloving but that's okay, I'm more
accepting of them now not myfamily, but my own stuff.
Um, yeah, I learned.
I learned to how do I say this?
(04:32):
Not monitor myself, but In thepast when I've gone to see
family, I think we all do thisto some degree.
When we're around our moms andour dads, we sort of regress.
We regress maybe mentally likewe or how we act around them we
(04:56):
become an old version ofourselves no, I would find
myself becoming silly and almostteenager-like.
I know that's weird to say, butthis time I wasn't so much like
that.
I was very aware of how I wasacting and I remember times in
(05:23):
the past I would go to see mymom and I would be constantly
sarcastic or making jokes notalways nice.
I'm really putting myself outhere now, um, but this time was
different.
I I was aware that you knowthat I shouldn't do that and how
(05:44):
in the past she would get likeHillary, that you know that I
shouldn't do that and how in thepast she would get like Hillary
stop it, you know.
So this time was a littledifferent.
I was a grown up.
Finally.
It's a natural thing, isn't it?
Forty years later?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I mean when you're around people that you're not
around a lot, it's very easy tofall into that old version of
yourself yeah, yeah, it's alltheir fault.
I'm just kidding well, ifthat's part of your old version
of yourself, to blame them foreverything?
no, no, no no no, I think that'strue, that that you know that,
(06:29):
um, we fall into old habits, um,because they're really
triggered or or prompted by thisrelationship we have so deeply
established with somebody.
It doesn't always go well.
I mean, it can be.
You know, we're talking aboutThanksgiving for us, canadian
Thanksgiving, the middle ofOctober, celebrating the harvest
(06:50):
, more or less.
But you know, our listeners inthe US are coming up to it in a
couple of weeks, they're goingto have their Thanksgiving and I
think it's the same kind ofidea, because I think
Thanksgiving is that holiday.
That is not, um, that's theright way to say it, it's not
attached to any belief system,right where, um, you know, most,
(07:12):
most, um, faiths have, uh,special days, special holidays,
and they're unique to that faith.
The traditions behind them, thefoods, the music, the
decorations, the gettingtogether, all that stuff, I
think, is based in a faith,whereas Thanksgiving is really,
(07:37):
in North America, sort of anon-faith-based family time,
with days off, work, associatedwith a weekend and largely
focused on.
I shouldn't say it that way,there's certainly a food focus
(08:01):
and there's often an event focus, but we did Thanksgiving and
there's often an event focus,but we did Thanksgiving.
And Thanksgiving is once a yearand it's easy to fall back into
habits around a holiday once ayear.
And that makes it easy to fallinto habits around family,
especially when you only seethem once a year.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And you discover things about yourself Not
necessarily things you want tochange, but sometimes things you
want to change.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, I this time I tried my best to do things with
my family.
Last time my brother and I wentout.
I very much I pulled back andmy mom and my brother went out
and did everything.
(08:56):
But this time and I looked backon that and thought, oh, you
know what, I should haveactually engaged right and I
felt bad about that that Ididn't take that advantage of
that.
So this time I tried to be moreengaged because my brother went
(09:24):
out as well.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Do you find that?
Um, so if you were to haveThanksgiving with your brother
and your mother, since yourparents don't live together, if
you had Thanksgiving with yourbrother and your father, what
would have been different?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
The food Start there.
Dad would probably do a turkeyon the barbecue and Mom we would
do jigs dinner or something.
Cooked dinner.
(10:07):
It kind of goes by two namescooked dinner or jigs dinner.
Basically boiled salt meat,boiling all the vegetables in
the same pot for hours on end,and then peas pudding or peas
(10:35):
boiled in the same thing, andthen a cooked chicken on the
side and you're supposed to havemore chicken than the meat,
than the beef, the salt meat.
But if there's lots of saltmeat I'm eating it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Isn't it funny?
Because what you're describingdoesn't sound appealing, but you
love it.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I love it because I think I grew up on it.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And it's.
I don't know if it's tradition,because we would just have it
randomly, but we would probablyhave that.
We wouldn't do a turkey orsomething.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
consider yourself a Newfoundlander.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes and no.
So the facts are that you wereborn in ontario.
Yeah, from newfoundlanderparents.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yes, you grew up in ontario, so my mom was pregnant
with me in newfoundland, yeah,and then she moved to ontario
and had me okay now you, howmuch of your life did you
actually live in?
Newfoundland.
Two and a half years, that muchyeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Two and a half so the rest of it in Ontario.
Basically yeah, and yet you canjust fall back into
Newfoundlander culture.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Very easily.
Yeah, I even have a weirdaccent that comes out.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I wasn't going to say anything.
But you still have it a littlebit now that you're home.
Little things you're saying soweird.
But that's the power of family,Because that's where you get it
from.
It's not like you got it fromliving down there.
(12:29):
How old were you when you moveddown there to live?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Well, the first time I learned recently, in the last
few days, you didn't even knowit didn't even know it, that mom
had me and almost immediatelymoved back.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So she had me I think she said there for like eight
months.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Eight to 12 months she wasn't exactly sure and then
we came back to Ontario afterthat.
So I was very young, just baby,not even walking, really.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
That changes my opinion of things, because I
didn't know about that, youdidn't know about that I didn't
know about that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And then, when I was finishing up high school, she
wanted to move back and so Iwent along with her, her and
andrew and I went out there andstarted life in st john's and I
(13:40):
finished up high school in stjohn's and then, uh, tried to
make it.
I could have tried harder.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
But yeah, I wanted to be back in Ontario so I just
came back.
Well, like that's such a smallamount of time of your
upbringing to be in that cultureand yet to feel such an
attachment to that culture andthat really just comes to you
through your family.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, and maybe it's because when I would go out to
visit I mean I visitedthroughout my childhood, every
year almost.
I mean I got on a plane when Iwas five by myself to go to
Newfoundland and I would sayalmost every year I went out.
(14:26):
Um, and every year since, and Ithink when I was growing up,
when I would go out it would befor two weeks, three weeks, and
I would be immersed in it, right, everyone around me would be
(14:47):
come on, let's go do this thing.
That's Newfoundland desk,newfoundlandia desk.
So ice fishing Well, I mean,that's everywhere, not
everywhere, but you know what Imean.
Like fishing, my Nana's friendhad goats and chickens, and so I
(15:08):
would be over at her house allthe time.
And the thing aboutNewfoundland I don't know if
it's so much anymore, butsomething that I really loved
would be, um, my mom would sayjust randomly okay, let's just
go over to so-and-so's house andwe'd just show up I don't even
(15:28):
think she called her and wewould sit there and drink tea
and talk about everything forhours and all afternoon spent in
the kitchen just chatting, andso I think that's a cultural
thing too.
Again, maybe not much anymore.
I think people like to knowwhat's happening now if people
(15:50):
are coming over.
But I think you see that in menow, where I'm like let's invite
so-and-so over and it's like,no, we've got to make sure that
they're okay with it, or we'vegot to give them time, maybe
week or you know, oh yeah yeah,we have lots of friends.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
We say you want to come over, come over for a visit
and say, yeah, why don't welook at December?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
yeah, yeah, yeah, second week and then, yeah,
people are busy yeah, um, howmuch of your family?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
well, I'll ask it this way how is family different
in Newfoundland than it is inOntario?
Are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
my family or families in general.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think families in general.
You went down, you visited yourfriend.
She just had her second babymm-hmm you visited your ears,
your great uncle and aunt.
You visited with a whole bunchof people.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And the whole time you were down there for family.
Yeah so you've experienced lotsabout family down there.
What are the differences?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I'm not sure I understand your question.
What are the differencesbetween my family visiting them
out there and then visiting myfamily?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
here, your perception of family there and your
perception of family here, soyou observed lots of family
stuff as a stepping back frombeing a participant yeah what do
you see I mean, besides jigsdinner right, boil the crap out
of a whole bunch of stuff yeah,right, and then love every
(17:39):
minute of it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah right, yeah so yeah Right.
Yeah.
So I would say family there isprobably more.
I mean, I haven't seen lots offamilies in Ontario so I'm not
(18:00):
sure exactly.
But I would say when you go seefamily there they're all.
They're really just huggy andwanting to be you not to leave,
and really wanting to tellstories and remember the past.
(18:30):
Yeah, Does that answer yourquestion I don't know what
ontario families are like.
You've got one, okay, so that'swhat I was asking, a couple
really.
That's what I was asking.
Was it between?
Was it me comparing my familyvisiting family there and
visiting my family in Ontario?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I just mean culturally.
Are there cultural differences?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I don't think so.
I don't know.
Can you spot them Just byknowing?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, I just think that you know experience is is
that culture has a big impact onon family ways and family
expectations, family practicesand family roles.
Yeah, and, and you know I'vebeen, you know I recently went
to my first muslim funeral andsaw how family acts around those
(19:26):
traditions in a totallydifferent way.
You know, I have a number ofclose friends who have different
cultural backgrounds.
My dear buddy, my dear Italianbuddy.
I spent lots of time with hisfamily around their kitchen
table and around holidays andshowing up and being there and I
(19:48):
got to even know his extendedfamily, cousins and aunts and
grandmothers, and all of that Isaw just sort of subtle
different ways.
Now, some of that is justpeculiar to the family, but some
of it is, I think, cultural.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I'm not so sure .
If there's cultural differences, at least not with my family.
So yeah, to speak on culture,no, I would say there's
differences, just becausethere's such a stark difference
between who these people are,right, so yeah.
So my family in Newfoundland is, I don't know if relaxed is the
(20:38):
right way.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's your perception.
It's all good.
Yeah, it's your perception.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
it's all good, yeah, like they're more, they're more,
um, yeah, they're more relaxedand um, whatever, whatever we do
is fine, um, and here, well,it's the same sort of thing, but
just a different atmosphere.
(21:05):
Just a different atmosphereenergetically, probably, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Let's just think about what we talked the first
time, and we talked so muchabout the idea that, although
family is this sort of I don'tknow what to say of I don't know
(21:35):
what to say thisinternationally interpersonal,
uniform in many, many waysconcept that everybody has.
Everybody has a characteristicof everybody.
Families are dramaticallydifferent in all of their
fundamental characteristics.
Yeah, and people's feelingsabout their families, right, the
(21:58):
degree to which they're drawnto them, the degree to which
they're repulsed by them, thedegree to which they are
participating in them, thedegree to which they're repulsed
by them, the degree to whichthey are participating in them,
the degree and ways that theysee themselves as having roles
within them.
You know, it's such a spectrum,such a massive difference in
(22:19):
terms of interpretation andmeaning and value.
And then, of course, expressionin terms of culture and how
culture can impact family.
Different cultures and theroles within families are
different among cultures, like,on the one hand, I look at
(22:39):
family and say this is aconstant across humanity, and
say this is a constant acrosshumanity and, at the same time,
the diversity that people havewithin that right From steps and
(23:00):
halves and siblings and parents, and blending and non-blending
and same-sex families, right,and so many things about family,
no matter.
All those differences, right,are kind of the same and kind of
different at the same time,mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I think for me, what I found with Newfoundland at
least, is I'm starting to noticechanges in routine of my
grandmother, my nana and my momand my mom.
(23:44):
So, and that change in routineI can't stop it, but it does
bring me a little bit of sadness.
You know my grandmother I keepsaying grandmother, my nana, she
you know, I have great memoriesof she wakes up at 2.30 in
(24:06):
morning and, uh, that's herwake-up time and she would.
She's got a wood stove and shewould stack, put wood in the
stove and I'd hear her bangingon the stove.
Uh, like I'd wake up half wakeup at that time when she'd get
up and it was almost comfortingto know that she was up.
There was a little light on inthe living room and now I'm
(24:27):
hearing her getting the woodstove going.
And because she's got, shestill has the wood stove but and
she uses it, but she's gotthese heaters on the wall
underneath the windows and it'sjust not the same right.
So i't hear that.
So I was surprised to get upthe first morning, second
morning, and her not have thefire in right.
(24:52):
So it was kind of sad for me.
I didn't say that to her, butit was a little bit like a
routine, was a bygone.
You know a lot of years of thatand just hearing her up and
going around the kitchen andgetting the stove ready and
(25:15):
everything and I was a littlesaddened by that.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Things change.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It's funny the things we associate with family, in
particular family members mm-hmmright how that becomes part of
how we construct the idea offamily and, yeah, and build
expectations around family yeah,and they're almost like
emotional expectations that youdon't even realize you have
(25:46):
until they're gone so what didyou do while you were with your
family?
What was some cool things thatmade you think about family?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
well, we had a my brother's birthday party.
Okay, we had a jigs dinner onanother night.
We stayed at my uncle's thefirst night that to me is
striking why, isn't that funny.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, you stay at your uncle's.
You don't hesitate to pick upthe phone and say, hey, can we
come and spend the night,because it's a long drive from
the st John's Airport, all theway up to yeah to your
grandmother's house, and whenwas the last time you talked to
him?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
When was the last time you saw him?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
The last time I was there, I guess.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Did you see him last time you were there?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yes, yeah, I stayed there the night before.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
So to me it's just like hi, remember me, I'm your
niece, I'm going to come andstay at your house.
And then it's not just that youwent and without hesitation
stayed at their house, but theybasically showed you some good
hospitality.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh, yeah, he's.
Yeah, his wife Mona wasn'tthere.
She was out in BC visitingtheir son.
Um, yeah, I guess there's not a, there's not a feeling.
Yeah, I guess that's adifference.
(27:42):
Maybe there's despite time goneby and we've never really been
super close, but when we are ineach other's company it feels
super close.
I don't know.
Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Family.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But yeah, he cooked us the next morning.
We had Newfoundland toutons,which are basically fried bread,
Fried bread and mounds ofbutter with maple syrup on top
(28:26):
and eggs and bacon.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So another traditional meal.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Which he probably doesn't eat every day, I bet.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I bet he makes it solely because family is there.
Yeah, I would say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's a thing where it's like
in newfoundland, it just feelslike no time between, no time
really passes between visits andit's not like a what would you
say?
Like a tit for tat, like you'renot, you're not expected to
(29:11):
stay in touch in order to feelwelcome and that's not a bad
thing.
You know, I'm not a bad personfor not staying in touch in that
way.
But our family, like you say,it's interesting because we do
all have our separate corners,almost.
(29:32):
We do all have our separatecorners almost.
You know, we're very, we'revery.
We don't engage with each otherthat often.
I mean I do with my mom andsometimes my brother, but
Sometimes I feel like, you know,I'm an only child or I don't
(29:53):
have any family which is weirdtoo sometimes.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So were there any family triggers?
No, not at all, don't want totalk about that.
No, we won't talk about that.
Did they exist?
Yeah, of course Were theremoments, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And, just like you, falling into an old personality.
Do you feel like others did?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, I think so.
I think we all do.
And if you think about it,there's a saying out there that
kind of encapsulates this.
I'm going to botch it, but itbasically says you know there's.
I think it goes along withfamily too, but there's people
out there that only know youfrom a specific time in your
(30:47):
life, right, so they will treatyou like that time and I think
it's.
I think it's across the board,even with family.
My mom still sees me as ateenager.
She sees my brother as a baby.
I see my brother as a baby.
(31:10):
You know, it's funny, not thathe's a baby, but like I, just my
heart just sees him, you know,standing at the fridge in a
diaper, with the fridge open,crying, like you know.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
There's a memory.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
There's a memory we need to regress to that yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Resolve it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, my Godmemory maybe we need to regress
to that.
Yeah, resolve it, yeah, yeah,yeah, oh my god no, it's amazing
how our experiences stay withus and shape how we behave today
when we're around certainpeople.
I mean that, to me, is one ofthe biggest things about um,
about family is just if I, if Icomplained about family, I would
(31:52):
say that sometimes we trap eachother into often old versions
of ourselves and not the bestversions of ourselves, because
we see past what's the rightword to use the face.
We see past the face that weput on when we're in public yeah
(32:15):
right, we all, we all um.
The more we're in public, themore that face really represents
our genuine self.
But when we're behind closeddoors with family, you know, um,
you know, what I see in youevery day is different than what
(32:35):
others see in you that you seeoccasionally, from time to time
even multiple times in a week.
What you see in me is differentthan what others see in me out
in public, when we get aroundour family.
It's amazing how we change.
I mean, you've noticed that AllI have to do is, you know, go
to a family event and Ibasically change.
(32:59):
I change in the way I speak, Ichange in the way I hold myself,
I change in the way I involvemyself.
You know our families areinteresting confines, they're
interesting expectations.
(33:19):
I think a lot of it isexpectations what we expect of
ourself, what we expect of them,what they expect of us.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And the subtleties in the communication because we've
communicated with each other somuch.
Yeah Right, the subtleties inthe communication because we've
communicated with each other somuch.
Yeah Right, the subtleties.
You know, like we'll go to afamily dinner and somebody will
say something and you won't evennotice.
And I'll come home and say didyou notice what so-and-so said?
And you go no, and I say theysaid this.
And you'd say so what?
(33:49):
And I'd say, oh well, I guessyou have to have lived with them
for 10 years to understand thatthe subtleties there and the
little dig there and the littleprovocation that you might react
to and yeah, um, you knowthere's, there's a whole script
um to the way you interactwithin your family.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
And breaking out of that.
It can be hard because you'vegot to get away from your family
and then come back with them.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, and I remember you know I don't think she'll
mind me saying this I remembermy mom when I was a teenager, I
guess, or early 20s her sayingsomething to the effect of you
know, I know you better than youknow yourself, kind of deal.
Yeah, and maybe at the time shewas right, but certainly not
(34:45):
now.
But she hasn't broken away fromthat right, really Really, how
could she?
Right, yeah, yeah.
So I know there's some thingsthat I've said that have maybe
surprised her.
Or, you know, she might thinkI'm a certain way and then I'm
not.
I mean, I'm a totally differentperson than when I was in a
(35:08):
teenager.
As a teenager, I think, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, yeah, I experienced that too.
So I went out to Vancouver.
Three of my sons live out there.
There used to be four of mysons lived out there.
One moved back home.
So it was kind of weird becausethe initial one, the first, the
eldest, the first one toventure and live in vancouver,
to go to school there, hasreturned back to ontario and uh,
(35:46):
and so it's kind of weird thatthe other three are still out
there.
Very much could never deny thatthey were influenced by their
older brother's presence outthere and that they were drawn
there's a certain safety to gosomewhere that your sibling
already is and they really wentout there sort of in order,
(36:07):
right From the oldest to theyoungest.
Each one in turn found theirjourney out there.
And next thing, you know,they're together and and when I,
when?
I get there and I'm I'm pumpedright because I haven't seen
them.
You know some couple of themlike it, really it's been over a
year and um and like it's just,I gotta see you, I gotta see
(36:31):
you all, and they're pumped.
I to see you.
I got to see you all, andthey're pumped.
I got to see you, dad.
We got to make contact and thenwe get together, like in the
very first couple of hours.
Next thing I know I've got, youknow, three or four of them
together and we're sitting insome restaurant or bar and we're
, you know catching up, and thenI find out that they haven't
seen each other in months.
(36:54):
Right, they live, you know,catching up.
And then I find out that theyhaven't seen each other in
months.
Right, they live in the samecity, they know of each other,
they communicate on and off, um,they, uh, but they don't see
each other much, right.
And then that whole dynamichappens because now they're all
together, which they're notusually, and they're with their,
which they're not usually, andthey're with their dad, which is
very unusual, right, and eventheir dad like I speak for
(37:19):
myself and say I'm not the dadthat I was I see them as men who
are living their lives.
I like to think that we'refriendly, that we have some
things in common, that we wouldenjoy each other's company, and
I would learn about them and thelife that they've created, and
I would learn about them and thelife that they've created.
Then they would learn about meand the life I've created.
Since, since they've been awaylike and not been, you know I've
(37:42):
not been the dad.
You know I make my joke all thetime.
You know, are they off thepayroll?
When you get your kid off thepayroll, the relationship
changes completely.
Right.
Off the payroll, therelationship changes completely,
right, yeah, because there's nomore dependence and part of
them and I saw it in each one ofthem was kind of the need for
um, and they didn't come out andsay that it was more that they
(38:03):
would express themselves asbeing independent,
independent-minded, financiallyindependent and capable, busy
human beings, and they wouldwant me to see that and they'd
want me to acknowledge that.
They'd want me to express umapproval and, probably more
importantly, a certain amount ofpride, right, and so you know
(38:27):
these are.
These are human beings that Ichanged their diaper, right,
like I remember them from theirfirst breath, um and uh.
I've watched them change somuch, um, and establish
themselves and establishthemselves relative to each
other, right.
(38:48):
Seeing that dynamic as a parentis huge.
Seeing how your kids comparethemselves to each other and
where they want to be different,they try to be strikingly
different and where they want tobe the same, there's a certain
amount of bond there that youwatch between and that's
thrilling for me, you know, tosee my sons hug each other and
(39:08):
say things like I love you andI'll see you later, and that
stuff is meaningful to mebecause of the role I play,
right, and so here we are, and Idon't think they'd mind me
telling this story.
So Thanksgiving comes.
So, first of all, this isbeautiful because I you can't
(39:28):
expect to me, you know a youngadult is, you can't expect to me
, you know a young adult is evenwhen they're very, very
successful, they're living on abudget, they're trying to get
ahead.
And expecting them to get on aplane for every single family
event and come back, especiallyfrom Vancouver, is just
unrealistic and it's not fair.
So I've sort of developed thisroutine over the last few years
(39:53):
of going out at Thanksgivingthat I would.
I've done it maybe three, fourtimes now and the last few, last
three, we make a point.
I cook dinner in one of theirplaces usually the same place
and, um, and they, like allthree of them, busy, busy lives,
(40:17):
but immediately said no, I'vebooked off the time.
We're gonna have a thanksgivingdinner on this day, we're gonna
get together on this day, um,and so we talked about what do
you want to?
eat.
And we decided on roast beefand we decided on pies.
And you know, jack wanted tobring this big bottle of
(40:43):
Prosecco that he had won in somecompetition, like it was a
monster, like it was huge andthat was going to be.
You know, I'm bringing the wine.
It was huge and that was goingto be.
You know, I'm bringing the wine.
And sam wanted to pick out piesand get pies from this, um, uh,
farmer's market farm thing thathe was going to, and and I went
out shopping and did the, pickedup the meat, potatoes and
(41:06):
vegetables and, um, and madedinner and they were pumped.
They were so excited and we satdown and even to the point where
a very close friend of Sam's,who lives down the hall from his
apartment, he wasn't doinganything, his wife was away.
(41:27):
So, yes, of course you knowyou're joining us too.
And so there we were, sittingaround the table eating roast
beef and getting ready to havepie and drinking and laughing,
and it was a riot.
We had a great time justlaughing and being together and
(41:48):
a lot of catching up, evenbetween my sons as to what was
going on for them, where theywere were, what they were doing,
how it was going Very, verykind of a Thanksgiving-y dinner
and then I'm not a late nightguy anymore and so you know it's
now.
You know, with the time changeit's like one in the morning for
me, two in the morning for me,and I'm like, okay, I got to go
(42:10):
to bed.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Two in the morning for me and I'm like, okay, I
gotta go to bed.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
And the youngest jumps up and says, well, I got a
new girlfriend, so I'm going togo hang out with her.
And so off he goes, and theother two say, well, we're gonna
stay and drink this great bigbottle of wine that we haven't
opened yet.
And and I go to bed and at likefour in the morning I wake up
(42:38):
to them having an argument inthe other room.
They've been drinking andthey're shouting I don't know
what, but very, very classic,kinda two brothers, right, older
brother, younger brother, kindof crap and sort of very, very
(43:02):
typical, falling into thoseroles that you know are so well
established for their lifetimes.
And of course I walk out andthe shame that goes on their
face immediately, right, andlike, oh shit, we woke up dead.
And I say to them you know,know, you both been drinking, eh
(43:25):
, and they start laughing and Istart laughing and things just,
they just go the way they go.
And and I guess I've just comeback to that idea that we as
family members have establishedroutines, established
conversations, establisheddances that we have with each
(43:48):
other and they're really hard tobreak out of yeah, in spite of
time passing, in spite of growthand development and learning
and becoming something way morethan we were way back then.
We we fall back into that thatfunny old patterns, right, and
(44:11):
and it's very laughable, welaughed about it the next day,
we laughed about it for daysafterwards really.
Um, just because you know theywere, they were just being
brothers and of course I wasjust being the dad and that's
what they laughed about.
Out comes dad and he justresolves the silliness and yeah,
(44:32):
it's really neat the way wesort of fall into old roles and
old scripts.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, and I think that's, I don't know for
everyone.
Myself, I think in my 20s Imean 20s and early 30s I was a
you know what would you?
You say serial student orperpetual student, but when I
(45:07):
could, I I was trying, in frontof my family, to show them like
how successful I was, eventhough I wasn't, but like how,
how?
You know, I had my lifetogether and I knew what I was
doing and I blah, blah, blah,and it wasn't until recently
that I just I don't do thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
But I think that's a younger, I think there's a bank
of years where you try to dothat and then you realize it's
not necessary.
No, I think it's alwaysnecessary myself.
I hear you Well, it's alwaysWell.
I see it's always necessarymyself.
I hear you Well, it's alwaysWell.
I see it in myself when I wasout there.
So since my sons have moved outthere, I've stopped being a
professor at a college anduniversity and become a
full-time hypnotist.
They've always known of my loveof hypnosis.
(45:57):
They've always known about myuse of hypnosis.
They've always known that I'vebeen practicing little bits here
and there, but now it's like afull-time business and it's a
full-time commitment to justlearning and growing and
becoming better and better atthis, this particular skill yeah
and I find myself sitting withmy sons sort of explaining that
(46:20):
to them, and them beingwide-eyed Like, whoa, this is
totally different Dad, this isnot the dad that we've known.
And to openly say to them like,yeah, this is new for me.
This is a whole new chapter inmy life.
It's a whole new commitment andI'm approaching it the way I
(46:41):
approached everything else, likeI want to be as good as I can
be.
I want to, I want to find a wayto turn this business into a
really successful yeah,enterprise that's global, global
right and and this is just allnew and it's all creative and
the look on their face, the waythey were listening and me
(47:03):
saying to them, like at somepoint in your life, you're going
to make changes and it's okaybecause we're constantly
becoming.
We're constantly becoming new.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
So when you look at that, I want to just point out
that if you're looking backwards, it's a teaching moment.
I feel like that was a teachingmoment for you, like you wanted
to express and you wanted toteach your sons, but I don't see
you trying to show your dad howsuccessful you are.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
No, but that's.
I think, it's, but there waslots of that going on too, right
From my son's point of viewright, yeah, yeah.
Like two of the three of themwork in hospitality, they work
in restaurants and bars and theyhave some really interesting
jobs and they wanted me to cometo their place of work.
(48:01):
They wanted me to experiencesort of the quality of the
environment that they were inyep and and their role in it,
their significant role fromtheir perspective.
you know, this is I.
I'm important here.
They, they need me, here I do.
(48:23):
I've learned skills, I'velearned abilities, and there's
very much that was going on too.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
So I see that, as you know, the old age well, not old
age, I forget the word for itbut you know that old tale of
sons and daughters wanting to beaccepted, you know wanting to
their parents to be proud ofthem.
You know disney, really, youknow disney movies, you know it
(48:50):
right.
So I see it as your sons.
Yes, they're looking foracceptance and I'm proud of you
and everything like that.
But I think at some point thatfizzles away and then they're
back.
Just like you are looking backat them.
They're looking back at if theyhave kids and it's more of
teaching moments, right?
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, I think they were surprised sometimes at the
changes in their dad.
I was surprised at them.
Yeah, that's breaking out ofthat cycle, I think, breaking
out of that expectation, thoseboxes, those confines we put on
each other as to how we knowthem and define them and then
(49:35):
giving each other the room Right.
I think that's hard for families, especially, you know, close
family members.
It's hard for familiesespecially, you know, close
family members.
It's hard for them to give eachother the room to grow, to give
each other the space to bedifferent, to stop expecting the
same kinds of things and stoptrying to push each other's
buttons in the ways that wealways have I think, a great
(49:57):
question, especially forfamilies that don't see each
other a lot.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Maybe when they get there and they're wanting to
chat, is you know what's?
New about you or you know, likea question that inspires growth
, showing the growth and youknow that you've grown as a
person over six months a yearand explaining that to your
(50:23):
family so that they can startwith the new you instead of
falling back into old patterns.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah, and to have the communication ability to say to
your family look, this kind oftalk or this kind of treatment
triggers this in me and I don'twant to go there anymore.
I don't want to be that guyanymore.
Yeah, I think my dad saidsomething to me a few years ago
(50:53):
and he said it to me, I think,truly out of curiosity and
surprise.
Think truly out of curiosityand surprise.
So growing up, my dad and Ididn't, you know, we lived
together but we didn't connectreally well and as I became a
young man, we found ourselvesarguing a lot and as I became an
(51:14):
established human being in theworld, I had less and less
interest in being around my dad.
There was a lot of resentmentand frustration there and we
just couldn't seem to get pastold ways of communicating that
just would always go sour.
(51:34):
And then, I don't know, I thinkwe both sort of grew and then
it started to become easier andI didn't react to his triggers
and he didn't react to mytriggers.
And he said to me just a fewyears ago he said it confused
him I think is the term he usedthat it used to be.
(51:56):
We couldn't even stay in thesame room very long and now
we're having fun together and,yeah, there's got to be room for
that.
You've got to make room forthat.
You've got to own your part ofit, I think.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
And then you've got to learn to dance differently,
to not respond in the same way.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, we've talked a lot.
I don't know if we've gotteninto anything serious.
I guess for me the main pointis just how much family is a
program unique to the family.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
And the program includes all the people and all
their foibles and all theirstrengths, all their uniqueness,
in a collective with verystrong rules that we find
ourselves having to break out ofover the decades.
Forgiveness and compassion arean important part of that, but
(53:04):
it's Thanksgiving and you'regoing to be with your family,
whether you want to be or not?
Yeah.
And so to step back and riseabove the battlefield and look
at the dynamics and grow.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Mm-hmm.
All right, that was good.
And growth Alright, that wasgood.
Yeah, we didn't go too deep oranything, but I think that can
be for next time.
Now that we've cut it all outon the table, we'll have phone
calls later.
What are you saying about me?
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Good thing, the family doesn't listen to the
podcast.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Alrighty Okay, so we'll see you later.
We hope you enjoyed today'spodcast and that maybe it helped
even a little.
If you have any questions, wewould love you to send them
along in an email to info atpsalmhypnosiscom.
Thank you for being part of theState of Mind community.
(54:08):
For more information abouthypnosis and the various online
or in-person services we provide, please visit our website,
wwwpsalmhypnosiscom.
The link will be in the notesbelow.
While you are there, why don'tyou book a free one-hour journey
meeting with Hilary or Les tolearn more about what hypnosis
is and how you might use it tomake your life what you want it
(54:30):
to be?
Bye for now.
Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
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