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What if the relentless pursuit of financial security is robbing us of present happiness? Join us as we unravel the "should monster" lurking in our financial lives with our insightful guest, Brian Rump - The Profit Coach. We challenge the ingrained beliefs that echo societal expectations, like "I should save more" or "I should have a retirement plan," and encourage listeners to question, "based on what and according to whom?" Through personal stories and deep discussions, we explore how these external pressures shape our monetary mindset and redefine what true fulfillment looks like.
We're rethinking the notion of retirement and life's fulfillment beyond conventional boundaries. Why postpone joy for a future that's not guaranteed? By sharing anecdotes, we emphasize the importance of aligning your life with personal values over societal scripts. Many overestimate retirement needs due to consumerist pressures, while overlooking the essence of living richly today. We invite you to consider if your dreams, like traveling the world, are genuinely yours or shaped by external narratives.
Pressure from societal expectations around financial responsibility can be overwhelming. With Brian, we explore balancing student loans, career aspirations, and personal growth amidst these challenges. We discuss generational shifts where personal fulfillment often takes precedence over traditional career paths. By questioning predefined paths and embracing individual desires, we encourage you to challenge conventional success and stability norms, making choices that resonate with your values. Through candid conversations about money, from tithing to spending on social connections, we aim to demystify financial discussions and emphasize the power of informed, authentic decision-making.
We hope this helps a little as you go through your day.
We would love to hear your feedback or questions.
We will respond to both in future episodes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome and thank you for joining us for Coffee with
Hilary and Les.
Brought to you by the State ofMind Hypnosis and Training
Centre located in the heart ofthe Kawartha Lakes, this is our
almost daily community podcastabout the mind and how we all
(00:27):
might change it in the mostsimple and helpful ways.
Every day we sit staring at thelake and sipping our coffee,
chatting about hypnosis and howto make those meaningful
adjustments to our state of mind, because nothing's more
important than your state ofmind.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Okay, we're back on the line.
We're back on the line withBrian.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Back on the line with Brian and back by the lake,
where we belong.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
But it's the afternoon, so it isn't coffee
with Hillary, unless we'rethinking we should call it wine
with Hilary.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Ooh wine with Hilary.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Maybe we'll get there .
We'll take a pause as we goalong, but it's a bright, sunny
afternoon by the lake and Briangets to stare at the lake.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, this is mesmerizing.
How am I supposed toconcentrate when I can just
stare out at this lake here?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's up?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It's pretty much a perfect day, too, in terms of
how the lighting is andeverything, so, yeah, it's great
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It's good to have you and we're going to keep this
conversation about money going,so got any thoughts from
yesterday?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I think you know the last episode ended on
Les going through a list ofthings he should do as it
related to his money.
And I thought we'd start thereBecause, as we go through the
process of rewriting our moneystory, we really need to look at
(01:59):
what I like to call the shouldmonster, what I like to call the
should monster.
And you know, every time we sayshould and it often happens
with money it's an opportunityto discover whose shame it is
that you're saying it.
So, you know should comes upwith.
You know I should be betterwith my money, I should, you
(02:22):
know, save more money.
I should have a retirement plan.
I, you know I shouldn't buy alatte at the coffee shop.
You know, when you start openingyour ears to it, you know we
are, you know, shootingourselves all the time as it
relates to money.
And, as we've heard on thispodcast, we know, you know
(02:45):
should is shame and you knowshame really is not useful at
all.
So, you know, part of the, the,you know trauma of money has a
process that they recommend.
That, you know, starts out withkind of a step of just
uncovering these things.
(03:05):
And yesterday we talked aboutsome money narratives, some
money scripts.
You know should is another bigone, and one of the things I
learned that I've beenpracticing is you know when that
word should comes up.
You think you just ask yourself, or ask that question, you know
, based on what and according towhom yeah, I like that and that
(03:30):
to me is one where we can, yeah, kind of think and see where
the trail goes.
But you know, we really have tostart uncovering these, you know
things we have in our mind andunderstand like, do they
actually serve what we want?
Which is kind of the next phase, which is visioning our phase,
(03:52):
our life and what we really want.
So if we kind of go back andforth a little bit, we can break
down some of those, you knowshould questions yeah, I like
that.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I like the idea of always remembering that there's
nothing in your mind that youdidn't receive from someone else
.
Yeah, right, like you come intothe world, you're an infant,
you're.
You don't even know how tothink yet, really, and all of a
sudden you've got a wholecatalog of crap in your head uh,
(04:24):
some built around shoulds.
You know rules and and theorder of things, and then the
only way I think to reallyovercome them is to first
acknowledge that they're notyours and then look at where
they came from yeah, where theycame from.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Why, um, you know, especially with money, we get
things that maybe served a fewgenerations ago.
But are they really things weneed to?
You know, should and adopt forourselves?
Or just the idea of you?
You know, sometimes it's.
You know how much is enough.
(05:04):
So, you know things like Ishould have a better retirement
plan.
You know we are bombarded with,you know, statements from older
generations about what theywould save.
You know retirement hascompletely changed since those
(05:24):
days.
We're bombarded by commercials.
You know I grew up on watchingthe, you know, freedom 55
commercials the suggestion thatyou know, if you don't save, you
know a billion dollars by thetime you're 55, like life's
going to be over.
Oh my God, yeah, life's goingto be over for you.
Oh my God, yeah.
And when you dig into it, youknow I don't know any working
(05:51):
person who's retired and thenfound themselves homeless and
starving to death.
That's just my experience.
You know things seem to workout.
You may have to, you know, notmake different choices.
Or maybe, you know, noteveryone gets the dream life of
luxury that they may really want.
But when we start thinkingabout these things and unpacking
(06:14):
them, they kind of lead us tofigure out, you know, what do we
really value?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I think retirement is a wild concept and I remember
when my grandfather passed awayand he wasn't even 65 yet and he
had stopped working because ofhealth reasons.
But the whole idea ofretirement to me is baffling.
(06:41):
You know, people have differentlevels of health today,
different lifelong expectations,a whole different view of what
they should be doing with theirtime.
I mean, I struggled with itwhen I retired from the college
that you know.
You think you're going to moveinto a world of, yeah,
(07:03):
contentment, and I haven't foundcontentment to be a fun emotion
.
Like it hasn't been enjoyable totry to move into contentment
and then realize I'm not andthen realize, well, there's
things I want to do about it,right?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So I think when somebody is like today, if
you're 30 years old today youshould just reject every idea
(07:42):
there is about retirement and abit of a plan, are going to have
a different vision for, youknow, their next five years than
you're going to have whenyou're 30.
Yeah, and these things really,you know, hijack what we worry
about.
You know, I've met people and Ithink I was someone in my 20s
(08:04):
so worried about retirement andsaving for retirement.
And it's easy to do because youknow you pull up a, you know a
little cash flow calculator andyou know you plug in the numbers
and it's like, hey, if I onlysave you know $100 a week for
the next whatever years, I couldbe rich.
And it seems easy.
(08:26):
Yet you have other, maybetrade-offs you want to make and
people will get so worried aboutretirement that they might make
choices that take away frominvesting in themselves or
investing in experience theywant to have and I'm not
advocating ever for you knowspending everything and getting
(08:49):
in lots of debt and just neverworrying or caring.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know, but it's finding the balance that works
for us and people get so caughtup, you know, in something like
retirement and it kind ofshort-circuits everything else
in their, in their life yeah,and I think that should gets
caught up there too, because somany people feel like they
should work until they are attheir max retirement, remember,
(09:19):
and you just never know what'sgoing to happen.
Right, you, you could die,right, and then it's just all
for naught.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well and you might miss opportunities.
You know, like I look at thelast 20 years of the globe right
and how countries have changedand leaderships has changed and
safe places have become unsafeplaces and unsafe places have
become safe places.
And if you put off things liketravel and you say, well, I'll
do that when I retire, you'regoing to miss out on stuff.
(09:51):
And if you think about thedifferent things in your life
that you want and you say, well,I'll have that when I retire
and I'm guilty of those thoughts, I'll have that when I retire,
you really miss out on just alot of joy in life right?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, you really do, and that's part of you know
understanding these shouldthings.
And you know and it might notmake you a completely abandoned
you know retirement savings butit might help you not worry
about.
You know sacrificing yourselftoday for a future that you may
not even make it to or even knowwhat you're going to going to
(10:30):
want at that point, and you knowretirement's one of those
things.
You know extra savings, youknow it gets back to what we
were talking about yesterday is,I think there's some freedom
and understanding like you'renever going to fully protect
yourself against everything.
You're still going to have tocollaborate, so kind of the
(10:52):
earlier you can design your lifearound what you actually like
and value.
You know collaborate withpeople.
You want to collaborate.
You know find the type of workthat you like doing and is
fulfilling.
You know maybe you work a fewextra years than everyone else
and that's the differencebetween you know you might
(11:14):
sacrifice in your 20s so you canquote, unquote, retire early.
But you might be miserable andare forced to retire because of
health reasons or then not ableto enjoy it.
But the alternative could justbe well, find something you like
and want to do anyway.
Then people are living longer,they're healthier, they may just
(11:36):
work a few extra years, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah other people's ideas that get trapped in our
heads.
Yeah, I had a buddy.
He was a lot older than me andhe was a lawyer and he was like
in his 70s and he was practicinglaw and I remember asking, like
, are you gonna retire?
And his answer was hilarious.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
He said what am I gonna do less watch tv yeah,
like we're meant to be activatedand stimulated and create and
some of the happiest people Iknow keep, just keep going.
They maybe they work a bit less, they take some more vacation
time, but yeah, like the idea ofdoing nothing to some people is
(12:18):
just not yeah, not what theywant to do.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Society has set it up so that work is head down.
You know moving forward and Ican relax when I'm retired.
But, as we were talking aboutthis morning, we are kids in
adult bodies basically right weare creative beings, we are
(12:42):
naturally wanting to be creativeand so when you now retire
thinking oh, I just had my headdown for the last 40, 50 years,
now I can relax.
There's this pushback becausenaturally you as a human maybe
you don't want to work the sameway, but you want to do
something you're naturallywanting to be doing something
(13:06):
out there, and that's why Ithink so many people that just
stop working.
I see it every, not every day,but I see it in the business, uh
, where I work with people thatare in retirement, the
retirement phase, and they'retrying to figure out who they
are and they're trying to getout of a depression that hit,
and you know all this stuff thatcomes up when we feel like
(13:30):
we're supposed to relax, we'resupposed to just not do anything
yeah, these really big coreideas that we latch onto and
then build.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Build a towards a horizon that we don't even
really know what it is.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, and we probably , you know, overestimate how
good that's going to be.
Yeah, and you know you don'ttake the time and this is where,
sometimes, releasing thesethings, taking the time to know
what you really want, yourealize, realize, like you know,
maybe I don't need as muchmoney as I think, especially if
(14:10):
we take care of some of thosemoney scripts.
So, for example, if you're amoney worship person, who's the
workaholic, who's always justspending, spending, spending,
you know in your mind youprobably need, you know in your
mind you probably need, you know, $10 million to retire.
But if you heal that, maybe youthink, oh, I only need $1
million, and I already have four.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So maybe I can now choose to like structure my life
different and not worry aboutmoney as much.
And in that script there that,that program that says you know,
I'm not happy unless I'mgetting stuff and new stuff and
having stuff like the wholeworld of stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
That's a program unto itself yeah, it's a whole and I
should, right, I should buythis.
You know my neighbors have thisthing.
I should do that.
I should check this out.
I, you know I should travel.
Travel is another thing thatinterests me because, you know,
people really only travel placesbecause they heard a story
(15:16):
about someone traveling to thatplace or they read a book about
it and they want to see it andthere's nothing wrong with that.
I also think that's kind ofhuman nature and hearing those
stories and wanting to travel,like because human beings, we
want to travel and explore and,you know, meet other people from
(15:37):
other places and we weretalking about today traveling
and and we were talking abouttoday traveling and just writing
and did like home, like goinglike this, so for anyone
listening, just hands over youreyes, looking down, close out
the world.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Close out the world.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Don't see anyone else , just the beach just the beach
yeah just me writing on thebeach, yeah yeah there's nothing
wrong with that yeah, I guess Ithink about you know just well,
you guys know this because youknow me.
I just always think ofeverything as a program.
(16:19):
I just wonder how much is inour minds that is genuinely us
right.
What is genuinely me Isgenuinely me sitting on the dock
all day long, every day, doingnothing.
No, but it was kind of a dreamfor a while.
(16:43):
No, but it was kind of a dreamfor a while, and embracing that
maybe yeah, maybe that was evensomething I would have wanted to
do when I was younger for aperiod of time, and that maybe
that's not a lifestyle, that'sjust a nice hobby, right,
something that's actuallyhealthy and helpful.
(17:04):
But you know, I buy into thestory of retirement being this
shut it down and be content kindof lifestyle and it's not
satisfying.
It's not satisfying for meanyway.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, I think we get sometimes.
That's a sign of burnout whenyou're younger and it's like
fantasizing about sitting on thedock all day for eternity.
You're just like, oh, thatwould be really nice.
And you know, I think too likethere's nothing wrong with
sitting on the dock.
And you know, right now I'mlooking out at the water and
(17:40):
it's beautiful and it's healthy,but it doesn't mean that's what
I have to do all day, every day, forever.
It's often seeking that.
You know we can use the wordbalance, of making sure you're
fitting those things in and ifyou're recharged and that helps
you recharge, it helps you.
Maybe you know work and dothings a bit longer yeah, where
(18:06):
did that idea come from?
even I was listening to aconversation recently with Dan
Sullivan who was talking abouteven the concept of retirement,
because in his program StrategicCoach, he has a few ideas.
One is the lifetime extenderand you know he plans to live
till he's 126.
(18:27):
And he's in his late 70s nowand in his earlier 70s he
decided he was going to write100 books and he writes a mini
book every quarter for 100quarters.
So that's part of his plan andhe's continually, you know,
developing team andcollaboration around him.
(18:49):
So he gets to do the work thathe loves and enjoys the most and
is kind of working kind of lesshours and to him it's like,
well, why would I ever retire?
Like his job is thinking andcreating tools and being around
interesting people.
So, um, you know, retirementeven as a concept is fairly new
(19:13):
because people you know, wouldkind of work their trade or do
their job in the community.
They may slow down but theydidn't really stop until maybe a
few years before they passedaway.
But it was the, I believe thefrench who invented it for
generals and it was when theywere older.
(19:35):
They would have people kind ofretire so that younger people
could take over.
And he made a little joke,whereas you know the french have
a long history of understandingthat it's not good to have
young people angry andunemployed so because of the
revolutions.
So if you have people retire tokind of make room for younger
(19:59):
people, that was kind of theoriginal concept yeah and even
then people didn't live.
You know, it wasn't like now,where I remember a lady in
Fenlon Falls, frida Kelly, wholived to, I think, 102 or she
was pretty old, but she had beena full-time school teacher and
(20:21):
at one point, talking about how,you know, she'd been collecting
a pension longer than sheworked, For her.
And you just think, yeah, likeretirement wasn't longer than
you worked.
You know when we roll back andand as we get healthier, as you
know, we learn more about how totake care of ourselves, and
(20:44):
medical science, and even youknow the internet has helped us.
You us connect to people whocan help heal you and help
unpack these things.
So why not change the conceptof retirement and lend to retire
?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well, and it reminds me of what's gone on for my kids
.
We have this big should aboutsaving and planning for
someplace way down the road andwe program that in, but the flip
side of that is that theeconomy has shifted and there's
(21:22):
not a lot of loyalty out there.
There's not a lot of loyaltyfrom employers to employees.
I watched my kids get into jobsearly in their working life
that you know.
I felt like the employer didn'trespect them.
I felt like the employer wasn'thonoring them and they were
there knocking themselves out,looking for something that the
(21:43):
employer had no intention ofgiving them, which was all
locked into.
How do I save to have all thesethings that I'm supposed to
have, because that's whateverybody told me I should have.
And then two of my sons did, Ithought, amazing things.
My one son he worked inadvertising.
He did all kinds of reallygreat creative work.
He's a wonderful artist andhe's a musician too.
(22:06):
But what he did was he'd workhard for agencies on a contract
basis and he'd make himself anice little pocket and then he'd
buzz off for three months andtravel Europe, right, and and it
got to the point where I wassort of saying, well, where are
you going next, right?
What's the next plan?
And I liked it and I respectedit, because what he was really
(22:29):
saying, I think, to employerswas you know, if you're not
going to make a commitment to me, then I'm going to live a life,
I'm going to give a life that Ilike my other son he took.
He was working for banks and hefinally got a good position in
the bank but said heck with it,I'm taking a year off.
And he took a year of leave andhe traveled around the world,
(22:50):
Right, and he did that young,like in his early 30s, Right.
And that again, I was really, Ireally admired that he had no
obligation to anybody excepthimself and he, I think in a lot
of ways he really honored that.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, I love those stories because I think that's
the the choice we have andunpacking some systems as well,
because even that system ofloyalty goes back to the
Industrial Revolution and Ithink the employers used to be,
I think, more loyal and expectedmore loyalty.
(23:27):
But it was.
We didn't have the same freedomof movement.
You know, people might live ina company town near the
manufacturer and they wanted to,you know, get people to kind of
have consistent labor for along time, so they had some
better packages.
They were also smart, I think,in.
(23:48):
You know, pay people less nowbut they might have had better
benefits to kind of kick the candown the road for the company
into the future.
And a lot of that stuff changedin the kind of late 90s, early
2000s.
You know they stopped doingpension funds and it was all.
You know, all the employercontribution things.
(24:10):
So we have some built-in betterchoice as employees where a lot
of pension plans are guaranteedbut they'll contribute, which
just means you could take thatwith you a bit more.
And some employers complainthat there's no loyalty,
employers complain that there'sno loyalty but they kind of
(24:30):
created that new system as aresponse to not wanting to have
the liability of loyalty thatcomes with that trade-off.
And when you understand thatyou can choose to do things like
work hard for eight months andtake off for three and what's
(24:52):
the worst that happens, you workan extra couple of years and it
probably for your son.
It allows them to not get burntout and work extra years, and
also that travel probably fuel,fuels that creativity even more.
And you know, I think that'sthe type of thing, as humans, we
want to do.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I feel like, too, the um, our mind is probably
obviously the biggest thing thatgets in the way of doing those
things that we want to do, butmaybe we think it's off in the
future and I don't have enoughmoney right now.
There are countless stories,whether they're real or not,
like that I've seen or I'vewitnessed online or I've heard
(25:38):
of, where people just go andthey, they just go and and do
what they want to do and it'ssomehow like you were saying
yesterday, it works out.
Right, these things work out.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, they find a way of working out, and you
understand the world's different, and you're right.
So many people say, well, Ijust don't have the money right
now to do this, and that may betrue, but when you start
unpacking sometimes, why don'tyou have it?
And it could be well.
I need to work hard and that'sa should, right.
(26:16):
You should work hard.
You should get a good, good,stable job like.
I left the bank as well, um,and it's like people thought I
was insane because it's like, oh, the bank, like that's a good
job.
You, you know, be there forever.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Um, how boring is that.
How terrifying is that you'd bethere forever.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Oh, I remember one time thinking like I worked with
a lot of people who had beenthere a long time and I remember
I was in fenland falls workingin fenland falls.
I was cutting my lawn one dayand thinking, is this it like?
Is this going to be my life forthe next 40 years?
Like am I going to retire fromhere?
(26:55):
And it didn't scare me thatmuch, but I just remember I
didn't really have the tools Ihave now to really think through
that and now my life's changedlike probably 10 different times
over and over since that pointand just knowing, like how
(27:19):
things can change it's just areminder like you can explore
something else and to understandlike, yeah, why am I doing this
?
You know some other shouldsaround, that is, people might
say things like well, you shouldnever turn down work and people
who work a crazy amount ofovertime.
And I find some of those peopleare also the ones who never
have any money for the thingsthey want to do right now
(27:42):
because they're usually soothingthemselves with maybe buying a
bigger house or buying bigger,more expensive vehicles or just
spending.
And you know they're in creditcard debt.
So they're in this trap ofworking extra because they're
told they shouldn't give up workand they're exhausted and burnt
(28:04):
out and don't feel like theycan have a break because you
know they have too many big lifeobligations that probably don't
serve their vision for how theyreally want to live either.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, it, just it's so.
It's such an enormous programwhat people live in terms of
becoming an adult and then allthese things that they think
they should acquire and theyshould have and they should be,
and you walk through suburbanneighborhoods filled with these
(28:41):
40 year olds that have two kidsand a lawn to cut and a mortgage
, and it's not so much that theyown a house, but the house owns
them, because everything intheir life is designed around
that and they never, ever, likeit was never, considered that
(29:01):
question of well, what do youwant, what would you like to do?
Like I really admire people whosay I don't want to have kids, I
don't want to have thatlifestyle, I don't want to be
stuck in a job for 30 years.
I really admire people who are,because I see it as a dramatic
(29:23):
challenge to the programmingthat went in for decades, really
in the first 20 years.
That went in for decades,really in the first 20 years.
Just so much of a worldview ofthis is the way it's supposed to
be and this is what success is,and if you're not that, then
you're not successful.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yeah, it just makes me think.
I grew up and my dad worked forNortel, which doesn't really
substantially exist anymore, andhis whole life was there, like
all these people he talked tohad been there forever.
So I grew up around all thesepeople who you got a job, you
(30:01):
stayed loyal and you were therefor all these years and you'd
hear of people leaving and Iremember thinking what are they
going to do?
Like their whole life is ruined.
And then when that plant theyclosed and my dad was sort of
forced to retire early.
Like it's just so dangerous andyou're like not sure what to do
(30:21):
.
But everyone found a way.
I think of all his friends andthese people he worked with and
it was great.
But people worried about dangerand, like you know, they'll
never find a good job again,they won't be able to accomplish
any of their goals and all ofthem found something else to
work on.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Like you know, things have a way of working out it's
kind of like it reminds me ofsomeone who wants to quit
smoking and thinking about theside effects or or what's going
to happen after they quitsmoking.
The words escaping me right nowfor some reason withdrawal
(31:04):
withdrawal symptoms andeverything, all symptoms and
everything.
It keeps them from quittingRight.
So it's sort of the same withmoney and jobs and these ideas
that we have in our mind that weshould be doing the exciting
(31:29):
kind of freeing, able to breatheagain.
Thoughts, in a sense, are heldback by.
Well, how do I get there?
What do I have to go through?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
All I go through is, I think, the common theme of
like we have to go throughcertain stages of life and I
know for me I lost in some wayslike parts of my 20s and 30s,
trying to like spread to headbecause I think about, you know,
coming out of school.
It's like, well, I should payoff my student loans really fast
.
I should also be saving forretirement because, hey, I'm
(32:10):
young and the longer I save, themore money I can make.
And oh, I should also buy ahouse and I should also have a
car, and I should also do thisand this, and it just stacks on
top of you and you just can't doit all at once.
And even advancing at work andlearning like I know now, it was
unhealthy, but I was alwaysdoing extra courses, extra
(32:32):
certifications and it just itcould take away so much.
Just add all of this stressbased on things I thought I
should be doing yeah.
All related to money, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Think, when you can ditch should, then you can start
to make choice.
It's not what should I do, butwhat do I want to do.
What appeals to me Right?
Like a big question that I'm soproud of my kids, where do I
(33:08):
want to live?
Like?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
I can live almost anywhere in the world really,
why couldn't I?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
the only reason I couldn't is my own limitations
in my own mind.
And yeah, and my kids up andmoved to Vancouver and they're
just loving life.
It's a different lifestyle.
It's certainly differentgeography and with that comes
different personalities.
There's a freedom, I think,that we're afraid of when it
(33:38):
comes to making choices.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
This reminds me.
I have a friend named Ian andhe recently said to me he's like
I can see many future versionsof a happy Ian.
Hmm, and I really like thatbecause, say it again, many
future versions of a happy Ian.
(34:01):
I like that and currently livesin Montreal, works for his
family business, which is inOntario.
So he does some online work andsome studying and lived for a
lot of years in korea and reallyenjoyed it there and at one
point like felt like home forhim and one of the things I
(34:24):
learned from him is even justmany versions of you know, you
will adapt to the lifestyle.
So there in cities, like he hada stove but he never cooked at
home.
So in his apartment he had thistiny little cooker they would
call it um but he never used it.
Because he's like you couldjust walk out on the street and
(34:45):
the street food was soinexpensive that he's like why
would I cook something?
I can just walk down my stairs,walk out and for $2 I can buy
you know something from onevendor and for another $2 from
someone else and you just makeyour meal based on walking
through the street and that's sodifferent than you know loading
(35:09):
up the truck from Costco andcoming home to your big freezer
and he thought it was weirdcoming back and he thought he
hadn't froze something or hebarely refrigerated anything
because it was so close.
And he just thought it was sostrange to him to come back to
that Because you just you knowyou have to trust the food
(35:32):
vendor is going to be there thenext day.
But that was just a differentlifestyle.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Are we scared of freedom?
What is it about freedom thatmight scare us?
That it might go away if wehave it.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
That it might go away if we have it.
I think of the line from thelast Matrix movie, which I'm a
big fan of those movies, and inthat movie the character
Morpheus says just as not allwish to be controlled, not
(36:12):
everyone wants to be free, and Iguess there's a.
You know, when I think aboutthis, I always think about there
are certain things that we needto concede to Like language.
Like language allows us to grow, it lets us learn it, lets us
connect with each other.
Language is something.
Why would I fight what languageI would learn?
(36:34):
Why would I resist learningmore than one language?
Language is one of those thingsthat we conform to but it's
really valuable.
But at the same time, why wouldI think in terms of jobs and
careers, how does that benefitme?
(36:55):
And why would I think in termsof ownership of things as the
only method?
And I guess you know somepeople really love the idea of
doing the right thing, and doingthe right thing requires that
(37:19):
the right thing be defined forthem, and some people really
like the idea of doing, I don'tknow.
Maybe the better phrase is Iwant to do the next thing, the
thing that I have instincts andimpulses to do.
Um, and I think those peopleare less, less in need of being
(37:43):
told right and wrong, and goodand bad and I don't and bad and
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, and I think it might be generational as well.
I know when I was a teenager Idon't know what they do now in
high schools but it was what doyou want to be?
(38:14):
You've got to be, something thatis going to bring in a pension,
right, it was all aboutteachers, lawyers, doctor, you
know, not an artist, god helpyou right?
And I see even just 10 yearsyounger, so 30s people not
(38:36):
feeling like they have to besomething that's going to bring
in a pension.
I also see almost in mygeneration, your generation,
like a giving up.
I know you see that there's okay, well, okay.
Well, I guess you know pensionsaren't a thing any longer, so
(38:57):
you know.
But I see these younger peopleand unfortunately they're
criticized by it for it.
I see I see a lot of peoplecritical of it, usually older
people, um, but this fact thatthey're just doing what they
want a lot of them, not all ofthem- but they're being
criticized by people who thinkthat there's a right way to do
(39:18):
it.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah and I think what's what I like about this is
, you know it's a suggestion youwould have got from an older
generation based on what I thinkthey saw like.
I know I was raised as youshould do this, this and this.
Basically, it's because peopleI know who do this, this and
this have these great pensionsyes, and even the idea of a
(39:40):
pension.
Some people don't even knowwhat that means and they don't
know what their pension is orwhat it means.
I remember being in the bankand people breaking down in
tears because they had theseprofessional jobs with great
pensions that they didn'tunderstand and didn't look at
the payments and then when theyfound out how much money they
were actually getting everymonth, it was not at all what
(40:00):
they thought it was going to be.
They had been kind ofconditioned to say like this is
your free ticket forever.
And I remember especially someteachers thinking thinking well,
I can't live on this.
This is only 50 of what I makenow and I'm already
overextending myself.
How am I going to?
You know, live next year?
(40:22):
And you know you have to learnto make choices in freedom.
My favorite definition offreedom really is having an
ever-expanding choice set.
So you have choices.
So I think we are afraid offreedom because some people are
afraid of choosing and ideaslike pensions you know they
(40:47):
really were only around for alittle bit and now no company's
really doing them the way theyexisted before and they even
before.
They changed them because theywere only really meant to last a
couple of years, like it waslike, give your life to the
company and you know, between 65and 68, when you're gonna to
(41:08):
die, we will pay for it.
And some companies did somecreative things.
A friend of mine from Atlantawas saying all his uncles moved
to Detroit way back when and youknow, if you passed away part
of their retirement was yourhouse got paid off.
But that was, you know, inexchange for probably some lower
(41:33):
wages at the time.
But they were looking for kindof lifetime employees and that
doesn't exist now.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
No.
Well, when my son said theywere going to travel the world,
what I said was that the key tofreedom was being debt-free and
no financial responsibility forsomebody else.
If you don't have a financialresponsibility to take care of
somebody and you don't have anydebt, you have more choice.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Oh, heck yeah.
And I think that's where youknow understanding, you know,
and we have all these toolsthings like debt that's another
one is like, oh, I should payoff all my debt too fast or I
should never get into debt.
And you know when you look atit, if you look at, a lot of
business is built on leverageand proper smart leverage.
(42:23):
There's also, you know, if weget into, you know, racial
inequality, white privilege.
You can look at which groups ofpeople are able to access debt
more and then you know it can bea wealth builder if used
properly.
But again, it's a should rightand you know, when you don't
(42:46):
have it, you have more choiceand freedom and you can focus on
, I think, developing yourselfand your own skills.
That then gives you morefreedom and choice.
Your son, who's the artist thathas traveled, probably is a very
talented and skilled person whohas a lot of choices.
Skilled person who has a lot ofchoices and, yeah, can't just
(43:12):
live life and travel forever andyou know, maybe never.
You know, live that life ofluxury but knows that when they
need to maybe go into a seasonof earning, has a lot of choice.
So it's probably not even goingto be terrible.
It's not like he's going to thecoal mine and like scrubbing
people's boots or something it's.
Hey, I have these skills.
(43:33):
I can go focus and apply themfor a while and then go do
something else I see that almostlike a muscle, like a building
of a muscle of choice knowingthat you have choice right.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
So he has put himself in a situation, in situations
over and over and over again,where he's tested himself and
seen results right, and so it's,it's like he's, he's, he's
built up this knowledge that youknow, we know that knowledge
(44:11):
that you know, we know that,well, to get woo-woo, like the
universe will provide, let's sayright, he knows that he can go
out and find something and itwill happen and he'll get
through.
And I think it's a, I thinkthat is something that would be
good for all of us to to, totest to, to build that muscle of
knowing that we can have choiceI love that.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
You're brilliant, as per usual.
I wrote that down in bigletters the muscle to have
choice and knowing I think theuniverse will provide you a
choice versus maybe you knowsome people like well, if I know
, imagine an apple and I neededan apple, an apple will appear.
Maybe that's you know I used tolike laugh at that.
(44:55):
Maybe it will, but it willmaybe give you a choice of how
to get an apple.
A friend of mine was talkingabout when he was younger,
driving up to the Yukon with afriend of his and he's like we
just kept going and then werealized we had no money if we
had no gas.
But they came upon a gasstation with a restaurant and
(45:18):
they were.
They had enough work for themto do.
They just asked kind of for ajob and they let them do a bunch
of inventory work and all thesejobs that got them a tank of
gas so that they could drive on.
So it provides choices for us.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
When you got no debt yet, don't owe anything to
anybody, then then you're in aposition to make those choices.
I, you know, I, you guys knowme choice is a huge idea for me
and it's just everything.
I've written about it, I'vestudied on it, I've taught it.
It's really important to me andfor me.
You know, I've tried to do that.
(45:58):
I left the practice of law.
I said I don't like this, Idon't like this lifestyle.
And I didn't leave it likesaying, saying I'm throwing you
out the window, just I'm gonnatake a break.
And then I I tried somethingelse because I was doing a lot
of public speaking.
I tried teaching and then I gotgiven a choice really early on
(46:18):
to sort of go all in on that,that teaching at that level,
those kinds of and I felt reallygood about exercising that
choice.
And then recently I retired andagain it feels good to the soul
to say you know, I've had enoughof this, this is not working
(46:39):
for me anymore.
This is not, this is notspeaking to me in any kind of
meaningful way other than mybank account, right, and I'm
going to take it.
Take a choice, and it's not somuch that you throw yourself
perilously into being broke, butif you've managed to not find
yourself up to the eyeballs indebt, then it's not that big a
(47:04):
risk.
It is starting to realize justhow you know, we're all so
filled with curiosity andcreativity and there's so many
talents we have and it's neverjust one and we lose sight of
that.
We lose that trust in ourselves, and that just comes because
(47:27):
we're busy listening to otherpeople doing the shoulds, doing
what we think we're supposed to,rather than what would be
really exciting.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I love starting out all my engagements with I call
it the Spice Girls question,which is, tell me what you want,
what you really really want,and I think I'm on a multiple
year journey to be able to evenanswer that question.
Yeah, Because you startunpacking, like you know the
things I should want, Right,Like, and then you start trying
(48:00):
to, you know, hold each one upand be like do I actually want
this?
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Do I want to own a house?
And you know, before we wrapthis out, I'll do my rant on
housing because I think that's abig one that people are
conditioned.
It's like buy a house, you knowthe value is going to skyrocket
and it's your ticket toeverything.
And that's usually based on youknow something from a previous
(48:27):
generation.
A lot of those gains havehappened and I've watched some
early 20s people just sick withanxiety because they feel like
they're going to be a failure ifthey don't buy a house before
they're 25 years old withouthaving thought about where do
they want to live.
Do they want to have a family?
(48:48):
Without having thought aboutwhere do they want to live?
Do they want to have a family?
Like you know, they buy a houseset up for a family and then
they realize they don't want tohave kids and kind of forcing
yourself into these otherpeople's choices early really
gets in the way.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
It's like there's this strange combination of
somebody else's script of what agood life is supposed to look
like, combined with a kind of a,a terror, a fear of what the
future might hold and that fearof looking back and saying, oh
(49:26):
geez, I failed.
But failure is well you know,you've heard me say it it's
non-existent.
Failure just means you quittrying, because if you really
want to attain something, you'lljust keep trying until you do,
and that's what we've learned tobe.
But failure often isn't failure.
It's waking up and saying Idon't really want this, I don't
(49:52):
want to pay this price for that.
I don't want to put in thattime.
Give up these aspects of me inmy life and it's time to take a
new direction.
And almost always that's theresult of somebody else's script
, adopting somebody else'sscript even that fear of like.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
I know I have a lot of business owners I coach who
are afraid of you know,bankruptcy or what happens if
their loans go bad, andsomething that's I often say is
like I've never met anyone inCanada who's been hauled away by
the police because theirbusiness went bad or bankrupt.
Like you know, bankruptcy, youknow even foreclosure on a house
(50:31):
is so relatively rare and youhave so many choices along the
way to make a change and I knowseveral people who have gone
through things like that.
They all bounced back betterthan ever.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I don't know anyone who hasn't yeah, because it
almost gives you that freedomyeah, a little bit right, so
load off yeah, forces you to achoice, or you think it's this
giant failure.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Then you realize oh actually I'm happier and less
stressed yeah, yeah and turnsout I didn't want a big, giant
house anyway and all of thesethings that you know.
Had you kind of done some ofthis work earlier, you might
have realized earlier and madesome more choices for you what
(51:18):
are some more shoulds you gotthere to me, the big ones.
I think we've kind of coveredretirement house, what we're
spending on.
I guess another one is thingswe shouldn't spend on.
That bother me.
So things like, oh, I shouldn'tbuy a lot of its food, shame or
consumption fate.
(51:39):
Like shouldn't buy the latte, Ishouldn't get takeout, I
shouldn't go out for dinner, andI understand that and I you
know there can be times wherethat spending is problematic to
our long-term future goals.
But food has always existed andfood's always been a part of
(52:01):
community and connection.
And I also have this weirdfascination with beverages and I
think you know beverages, liketea, are a way to like
collaborate with leaves fromaround the world and all the
people who were involved ingetting it to you, and then you
can drink it and experience itthrough your body.
So you know, if we think oursouls are here to live in this
(52:23):
body, we can experience a lot ofthings by putting it through
our body.
Yeah, and the history of theworld can be told through
beverages.
You know exploration tea, youknow.
I remember.
You know samuel l jackson, if Ican swear on this, did a
documentary and was in southamerica and a coffee plantation
(52:47):
and some of the very firstslaves from africa were brought
for coffee and he was like allof this for a motherfucking
drink.
I'm like I love that saying andlike especially with samuel l
jackson saying it his way I waslike that's true and what I take
(53:09):
from that and you know, thingslike coffee shops are places to
gather, places to connect, sowhen we walk in and then shame
ourselves, it's completelyuseless.
So I know and I the same, I'llcount up where I spend my money
each month, because I havelong-term goals, short-term
things, and I've done so muchwork and I continue to do it to
(53:34):
take my should away from my, youknow, spending at kindred and
court northward, because it'snot really realistic to live a
life where you just never drinka nice beverage so where's the
balance there?
Speaker 1 (53:48):
where's the balance where you know spend like a
millionaire?
And you'll get there one day.
Where is that?
Because even I mean, I strugglewith that absolutely.
I think about saving and Ithink, well, I have the limiting
(54:09):
belief of, well, there's notenough coming in to save, right,
so it goes out the door quickly.
So when I walk into a coffeeshop, I think, well, what the
hell?
Yeah, right, I don't have that.
Oh, I should save this.
Maybe I should have more of it.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Well, all these shoulds, yeah, and I think it
comes back to visioning what youwant for yourself and trying to
deal with those beliefs aboutnot enough coming in.
It could also be a sign thatyou don't need as much coming in
, maybe, but the answer isalways it depends right on what
(54:53):
you really want and then why.
So when you imagine your lifeand what's really of value, you
know you can understand whatyou're going to do.
I think with food too the otherpart you know food and money.
I think you know it could beeverything you ever just deal is
on.
(55:13):
Is you know why am I like I'vecome to the conclusion or not
conclusion but the idea that alot of my spending is for
connection.
So when I look at my kindredbill every month, it's like, oh,
what I'm really getting is I'msoothing, my need to go sit in a
(55:33):
place where I see people andconnect, so that, in a way, is
not that expensive.
It's not necessarily you knowwhat I'm eating.
If I take something liketakeout, for example, I think
there's a correlation withalmost everyone of how much
(55:54):
takeout am I getting versus howmuch of my may be overworking
and soothing, maybe something Idon't want to be doing.
So it's a, you know, aninvitation to find some balance,
because I you know, I think, um, and I follow some other woo
woo stuff about when you createand make your own food, you know
(56:19):
it's your nervous system takingcare of its own needs to a
certain level.
But I also think if you only doit for yourself, you're missing
out on the connection and theopportunity to share and trade
somewhere else.
So everyone's going to have abalance of some sort.
And that's the invitation ofdigging in to figure out what
(56:42):
that means for you, versussaying, oh, I should never get
takeout again and then everytime you get takeout, you just
sit and shame yourself while youeat it.
Um, and I, you know I'm amaster at shaming myself and
master at some of that over life, and a lot has changed now
where, like, I'll sit in arestaurant and eat and think
(57:05):
about who made it and kind ofthe collaboration, and I see it
as you know, a way to connect tothose people and a way to, you
know, eat in community.
And you know there's somethingthere for that, knowing that.
You know it doesn't fit mylifestyle to do that, you know
three times a day every everysingle day.
(57:26):
But you know there are times aday, every single day.
But you know there are timesand cultures where that's, you
know, the people who take careof the food, and then everyone
gathers and, you know, doessomething else, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
What do you think and maybe this is for our next
podcast, because I think itmight be a big subject what do
you think about?
I'll use myself as an example.
I think I told you this before,but I think that if I don't
look at my money, I'll be okayright so.
(58:03):
I do not check my credit card.
Do not check my credit card, Ido not check this is like so
many things are making sense now.
You know, I get the I, I.
You know I have a, I just Ijust don't look as much as I
maybe should.
Is that avoidance?
Speaker 3 (58:20):
oh yeah, that's totally the script of money,
money avoidance.
So you know, money avoidanceand it's very common and
especially the type of businessyou have, like money avoidance
is a thing and a lot of it, youknow um comes down to.
(58:41):
You know, releasing some ofthat should probably lots of
money, specific shoulds to giveback to someone uh, self-worth
as well, you know, if you feelguilty for desiring money as
part of you know one of thethings in there and knowing that
(59:01):
you are, you know, worthy to beable to receive and hold that.
But yeah, it's definitely amoney-avoided script that needs
to be rewritten.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yeah, well, yeah, I wonder what the writing should
be.
Tite wants to play with you, sowhat's been coming into?
My head as we're sitting hereand maybe this might be a good
place to break this wine switchto the wine with Hillary yeah,
(59:37):
that's right.
Shift to the wine shots ofwhiskey.
Chapter 3 on this podcast, theidea of.
I think that there, the idea of.
I think that one of the bigthings we don't do well in our
world today, and especially inthe society that we're living in
(01:00:00):
, is we don't balance very wellor very clearly our obligations
to ourselves and our obligationsto the whole, to the community.
We find that we have acommunity where there are people
out there who give, give, give,give, give.
(01:00:21):
They're always involved ineverything.
They think their job is allabout serving the community.
You know, I have a buddy and theself-talk that he has is you
know, what am I going to dotoday to deserve to be part of
this community?
And like this is there'sthere's a real spectrum on this.
At the same time, there's, tome, there's a there's a natural
(01:00:46):
awareness of oneness, ofconnectedness you like using
food as that conduit intoconnection.
And we are connected.
We are because each of us are.
We only exist because othersexist.
Yeah, we are what we arebecause of our relationship with
(01:01:08):
others, for better or worse.
I mean, apart from the shouldsand the programs, we still are,
you know, an extension of eachother.
And then what we do is we buildan economic system and you know
me, I've always said itwhatever's created can be
recreated, and we've createdthis economic system.
(01:01:29):
Right now there's a lot ofpeople who don't want to
recreate it because they've gottoo much at stake.
They're doing really, reallywell and others are not doing
well at all.
You know, how do I honor myselfand benefit and grow and have
(01:01:57):
what I want to have, do what Iwant to do, be what I want to be
?
How does that intersect withall of this?
Is facilitated because we livein a larger society that that
allows that.
Um, how do I, you know, likewhat I I feel like sometimes?
That's what leads to avoidance.
(01:02:17):
That's what leads us to havesome of these scripts is that we
, we don't know how to balanceour contribution with our, what
we receive.
We don't know how to createenough so that we're taking care
of ourselves and and then have,you know, this idea of surplus,
(01:02:38):
this, this extra that we share,um, these are, I know, big, big
kind of goofy questions and Ithink about I don't like the
word responsibility.
I think about the idea ofresponsibility.
I like responsibility in theidea that cause and effect.
(01:02:59):
I act and there's an effect.
I look at the effect and thatcauses me to act in my next
action cause and effect,embraced, understood and then
lived out well, is to meresponsibility anyway, big, big
(01:03:25):
idea in question, but youbrought me here.
You guys are going to talkabout this stuff.
It's going to make me thinkthese things.
Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
So it's not, it's not my fault about these big ideas.
I love it because I think forme, responsibility I learned a
recently reframe that helped meis it's your ability to respond,
which is kind of like you say,these things happen and I can
choose how to respond and youknow it comes back to knowing
(01:03:53):
and loving yourself and yourgifts so that you can respond to
those things.
But it's not this grander thingof you.
Know, I am responsible to servefor others, for others, and as
someone working my way out ofthat, you know, we I always
thought the alternative was kindof selfishness, of like, well,
(01:04:14):
if I'm not giving and giving andgiving and serving, and serving
and serving, well, that'sselfish of me.
Now, kind of, where my mind isat is if I fully love myself and
I have skills and abilitiesI've developed, that I'm able to
collaborate with people andshare back and forth, that's
(01:04:39):
responsible, versus this ideathat I have to go out and, you
know, save everyone and give,give, give, give, give and maybe
if I give enough I'll getsomething back or I'll earn the
right to get something backso I think it's a um, it's like
almost like a day-to-day cycleof give take, give take.
(01:05:01):
And when you started yourquestion I was going to say, you
know to me the kind ofchristian idea of tithing.
It's not necessarily aboutmoney but it's about
contribution to the community oroverall trust.
So I was going to say, you knowone in 10, you know we give one
in 10 and keep 90.
But I actually think it'sprobably closer to 50-50 of that
(01:05:25):
responsibility, of like timefor me, time to kind of give to
the collective.
But that's not all necessarilywork or serving.
You know, even in things likeconversation or talking to
people, you know you're givingand collaborating and learning.
So you know, maybe it's closerto that 50 50 balance, knowing
(01:05:51):
that.
You know and this goes back tosome of the stuff we talked
about in the last one, about notgetting, you know, not
concerning yourself with thepolitics of getting ahead.
Sometimes we're all racingtrying to.
It's like we're all racingtrying to stockpile apples or
something that maybe only lastsa few days.
(01:06:11):
It's like if you, you can haveyour big pile but it's just
gonna rot before you can eat itall and you know that's not
helpful.
So you kind of have to trust,trust the flow a little bit yeah
, I was.
Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
I was just over here thinking about the idea of
avoidance and it makes me thinkabout how, growing up, it was
said to me this is totally alimiting belief.
That's coming to mind now.
It was said to me over and overby someone close to me like we
don't talk about money, youdon't ask about money.
(01:06:50):
Right, I couldn't ask as achild.
Well, even a teenager, child,teenager couldn't ask about
money in my household, right, itwas like you don't ask anything
about it or you get in troubleyeah, it's dangerous.
Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
It's dangerous to engage with money, and that's a
story that needs to be rewrittenyeah, I had that conversation
with my older sister about ayear ago you know she was.
We were talking about retirement, we were talking about
investing and where would youput money in house?
(01:07:26):
What's a good way to grow moneywhile at the same time
protecting money and these kindsof things.
And she pointed out, althoughthere's information out there
although you could do some websearches and you could hire
yourself an expert it's just notthe kind of thing people talk
about freely.
And she was really concernedthat you know why couldn't she
(01:07:50):
sit at dinner with her friendsand talk about well, what are
you doing and what's working foryou and how is that helping and
what's some mistakes thatyou've made?
So I don't make those mistakes.
And it was really, you know,like it was heartfelt from her
that this was something that shethought our communities are our
(01:08:11):
collections of friends andfamilies should be able to talk
more freely about maybe becauseeveryone wants to be seen as
doing better than they are?
Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
yeah, and if you start opening up about it and
that's the power structures aswell.
Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
As you know, it's designed on people not knowing
and this is where, like you know, there's no economic profit in
the long run.
If you want to know the bestthing to do, currently it's
index funds.
You know, this is not an advicechannel, but like the average,
if you can get average, that isthe.
(01:08:50):
That's the real best.
And when I talk to people Itruly see as experts.
That's where their own personalmoney is.
It's boring stuff, but ashumans and people trying to get
ahead, you know they, they jumpin and they do risky stuff and
then everyone else piles in andit creates a market you know dan
(01:09:13):
sullivan talks about.
You know, if you're tradingturds and everyone's like, hey,
I want some turds too, theprices go really high for a
while and then everyone realizeslike, oh, these are turds,
they're not worth anything, andthe price crashes and in the
middle someone made some moneyoff of that because they were
averaging it out with otherthings and it's it's kind of
(01:09:36):
dangerous to look at.
You know, and even in that world, a lot of people just don't
know, they avoid it, they'reworried that they're.
You know, they don't want tomake a mistake or they don't
want to be the person who lostall their money on something.
And to me, the fundamentals arelike, you know, if I were to
(01:09:57):
write a letter to my youngerself, it's develop your skills,
develop your abilities for whoyou are.
You know understand the lifeyou really want and what the
cost of that is.
You know earn more than youspend.
And you know in investor, savein the average and don't worry
(01:10:20):
about it.
And I say this as someone who'sa.
You know, I have a financialplanning designation.
I've probably read more thanany financial planner in this
community, for sure, um, and allof my conclusions point back to
, like you know, there's noeconomic profit in the long run.
There's no exact right answer.
Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
There's lots of wrong answers well, and that would be
the only thing that I would.
I would add to what you justsaid, which is, I think, for
many people it's not so much canI do the right thing with my
investments, but more theresulting paralysis that they
don't do anything right, I saidthat to my kids I said that the
(01:11:05):
only mistake you can make is todo nothing.
Yeah, and it triggered myyoungest son.
He was for a little while I wasjust blown away because he
suddenly got into got himself awealth simple account.
He got a little bit of money,he got into non-fungible tokens
he was just having a riot and,as a result, he, like a couple
(01:11:27):
of hundred dollars and then, youknow, bought a used car because
of the money that he hadcreated for himself and he
became really quite fascinatedwith it for a while and that has
waned.
I think that you know one ofthe biggest mistakes that we
(01:11:48):
make and I think you're right.
the system is not built to helppeople.
It's not built to go out of itsway to facilitate everyone
thriving, and I think that wekeep certain messages away from
(01:12:08):
people and they take that storyand they build that shame.
I don't know how to do this.
I couldn't do that.
I don't have what it takes.
They get guilty because they'renot doing anything and all that
does is make them not doanything even more.
And then go soothe with, like,something else that costs money,
that's right Spending the moneyon something that doesn't
(01:12:37):
doesn't serve them, becausesometimes people, you know they,
they soothe um with stuff theyknow doesn't serve them.
They, they comfort themselveseven in things that they don't
really want.
That, that script, that story,you know I should, I should do
this because everybody else isdoing that and I'm wasting.
Anyway, I think that there area whole combination of limiting
(01:12:58):
beliefs that lock people down,keep them afraid of money and
keep them afraid of doing thingswith their money, and I think
that that might be the place tostart Chapter 3.
Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Does that sue you super long.
Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
No, that's great.
There's something I want tobring up in Chapter 3.
Maybe it's a good openingactually, so I'll save it
Alright.
See you later after some drinks.
We hope you enjoyed today'spodcast and that maybe it helped
even a little.
If you have any questions, wewould love you to send them
(01:13:38):
along in an email to info atpsalmhypnosiscom.
Thank you for being part of theState of Mind community.
For more information abouthypnosis and the various online
or in-person services we provide, please visit our website,
wwwsomhypnosiscom.
The link will be in the notesbelow.
(01:13:58):
While you are there, why don'tyou book a free one-hour journey
, meeting with Hillary or Les,to learn more about what
hypnosis is and how you mightuse it to make your life what
you want it to be?
Bye for now.
Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
Welcome and thank you for joining us for Coffee with
Hilary and Les.
Brought to you by the State ofMind Hypnosis and Training
Centre located in the heart ofthe Kawartha Lakes, this is our
almost daily community podcastabout the mind and how we all
(00:27):
might change it in the mostsimple and helpful ways.
Every day we sit staring at thelake and sipping our coffee,
chatting about hypnosis and howto make those meaningful
adjustments to our state of mind, because nothing's more
important than your state ofmind.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Okay, we're back on the line.
We're back on the line withBrian.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Back on the line with Brian and back by the lake,
where we belong.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
But it's the afternoon, so it isn't coffee
with Hillary, unless we'rethinking we should call it wine
with Hilary.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Ooh wine with Hilary.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Maybe we'll get there .
We'll take a pause as we goalong, but it's a bright, sunny
afternoon by the lake and Briangets to stare at the lake.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, this is mesmerizing.
How am I supposed toconcentrate when I can just
stare out at this lake here?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's up?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It's pretty much a perfect day, too, in terms of
how the lighting is andeverything, so, yeah, it's great
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It's good to have you and we're going to keep this
conversation about money going,so got any thoughts from
yesterday?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I think you know the last episode ended on
Les going through a list ofthings he should do as it
related to his money.
And I thought we'd start thereBecause, as we go through the
process of rewriting our moneystory, we really need to look at
(01:59):
what I like to call the shouldmonster, what I like to call the
should monster.
And you know, every time we sayshould and it often happens
with money it's an opportunityto discover whose shame it is
that you're saying it.
So, you know should comes upwith.
You know I should be betterwith my money, I should, you
(02:22):
know, save more money.
I should have a retirement plan.
I, you know I shouldn't buy alatte at the coffee shop.
You know, when you start openingyour ears to it, you know we
are, you know, shootingourselves all the time as it
relates to money.
And, as we've heard on thispodcast, we know, you know
(02:45):
should is shame and you knowshame really is not useful at
all.
So, you know, part of the, the,you know trauma of money has a
process that they recommend.
That, you know, starts out withkind of a step of just
uncovering these things.
(03:05):
And yesterday we talked aboutsome money narratives, some
money scripts.
You know should is another bigone, and one of the things I
learned that I've beenpracticing is you know when that
word should comes up.
You think you just ask yourself, or ask that question, you know
, based on what and according towhom yeah, I like that and that
(03:30):
to me is one where we can, yeah, kind of think and see where
the trail goes.
But you know, we really have tostart uncovering these, you know
things we have in our mind andunderstand like, do they
actually serve what we want?
Which is kind of the next phase, which is visioning our phase,
(03:52):
our life and what we really want.
So if we kind of go back andforth a little bit, we can break
down some of those, you knowshould questions yeah, I like
that.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I like the idea of always remembering that there's
nothing in your mind that youdidn't receive from someone else
.
Yeah, right, like you come intothe world, you're an infant,
you're.
You don't even know how tothink yet, really, and all of a
sudden you've got a wholecatalog of crap in your head uh,
(04:24):
some built around shoulds.
You know rules and and theorder of things, and then the
only way I think to reallyovercome them is to first
acknowledge that they're notyours and then look at where
they came from yeah, where theycame from.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Why, um, you know, especially with money, we get
things that maybe served a fewgenerations ago.
But are they really things weneed to?
You know, should and adopt forourselves?
Or just the idea of you?
You know, sometimes it's.
You know how much is enough.
(05:04):
So, you know things like Ishould have a better retirement
plan.
You know we are bombarded with,you know, statements from older
generations about what theywould save.
You know retirement hascompletely changed since those
(05:24):
days.
We're bombarded by commercials.
You know I grew up on watchingthe, you know, freedom 55
commercials the suggestion thatyou know, if you don't save, you
know a billion dollars by thetime you're 55, like life's
going to be over.
Oh my God, yeah, life's goingto be over for you.
Oh my God, yeah.
And when you dig into it, youknow I don't know any working
(05:51):
person who's retired and thenfound themselves homeless and
starving to death.
That's just my experience.
You know things seem to workout.
You may have to, you know, notmake different choices.
Or maybe, you know, noteveryone gets the dream life of
luxury that they may really want.
But when we start thinkingabout these things and unpacking
(06:14):
them, they kind of lead us tofigure out, you know, what do we
really value?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I think retirement is a wild concept and I remember
when my grandfather passed awayand he wasn't even 65 yet and he
had stopped working because ofhealth reasons.
But the whole idea ofretirement to me is baffling.
(06:41):
You know, people have differentlevels of health today,
different lifelong expectations,a whole different view of what
they should be doing with theirtime.
I mean, I struggled with itwhen I retired from the college
that you know.
You think you're going to moveinto a world of, yeah,
(07:03):
contentment, and I haven't foundcontentment to be a fun emotion
.
Like it hasn't been enjoyable totry to move into contentment
and then realize I'm not andthen realize, well, there's
things I want to do about it,right?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So I think when somebody is like today, if
you're 30 years old today youshould just reject every idea
(07:42):
there is about retirement and abit of a plan, are going to have
a different vision for, youknow, their next five years than
you're going to have whenyou're 30.
Yeah, and these things really,you know, hijack what we worry
about.
You know, I've met people and Ithink I was someone in my 20s
(08:04):
so worried about retirement andsaving for retirement.
And it's easy to do because youknow you pull up a, you know a
little cash flow calculator andyou know you plug in the numbers
and it's like, hey, if I onlysave you know $100 a week for
the next whatever years, I couldbe rich.
And it seems easy.
(08:26):
Yet you have other, maybetrade-offs you want to make and
people will get so worried aboutretirement that they might make
choices that take away frominvesting in themselves or
investing in experience theywant to have and I'm not
advocating ever for you knowspending everything and getting
(08:49):
in lots of debt and just neverworrying or caring.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know, but it's finding the balance that works
for us and people get so caughtup, you know, in something like
retirement and it kind ofshort-circuits everything else
in their, in their life yeah,and I think that should gets
caught up there too, because somany people feel like they
should work until they are attheir max retirement, remember,
(09:19):
and you just never know what'sgoing to happen.
Right, you, you could die,right, and then it's just all
for naught.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well and you might miss opportunities.
You know, like I look at thelast 20 years of the globe right
and how countries have changedand leaderships has changed and
safe places have become unsafeplaces and unsafe places have
become safe places.
And if you put off things liketravel and you say, well, I'll
do that when I retire, you'regoing to miss out on stuff.
(09:51):
And if you think about thedifferent things in your life
that you want and you say, well,I'll have that when I retire
and I'm guilty of those thoughts, I'll have that when I retire,
you really miss out on just alot of joy in life right?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, you really do, and that's part of you know
understanding these shouldthings.
And you know and it might notmake you a completely abandoned
you know retirement savings butit might help you not worry
about.
You know sacrificing yourselftoday for a future that you may
not even make it to or even knowwhat you're going to going to
(10:30):
want at that point, and you knowretirement's one of those
things.
You know extra savings, youknow it gets back to what we
were talking about yesterday is,I think there's some freedom
and understanding like you'renever going to fully protect
yourself against everything.
You're still going to have tocollaborate, so kind of the
(10:52):
earlier you can design your lifearound what you actually like
and value.
You know collaborate withpeople.
You want to collaborate.
You know find the type of workthat you like doing and is
fulfilling.
You know maybe you work a fewextra years than everyone else
and that's the differencebetween you know you might
(11:14):
sacrifice in your 20s so you canquote, unquote, retire early.
But you might be miserable andare forced to retire because of
health reasons or then not ableto enjoy it.
But the alternative could justbe well, find something you like
and want to do anyway.
Then people are living longer,they're healthier, they may just
(11:36):
work a few extra years, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah other people's ideas that get trapped in our
heads.
Yeah, I had a buddy.
He was a lot older than me andhe was a lawyer and he was like
in his 70s and he was practicinglaw and I remember asking, like
, are you gonna retire?
And his answer was hilarious.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
He said what am I gonna do less watch tv yeah,
like we're meant to be activatedand stimulated and create and
some of the happiest people Iknow keep, just keep going.
They maybe they work a bit less, they take some more vacation
time, but yeah, like the idea ofdoing nothing to some people is
(12:18):
just not yeah, not what theywant to do.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Society has set it up so that work is head down.
You know moving forward and Ican relax when I'm retired.
But, as we were talking aboutthis morning, we are kids in
adult bodies basically right weare creative beings, we are
(12:42):
naturally wanting to be creativeand so when you now retire
thinking oh, I just had my headdown for the last 40, 50 years,
now I can relax.
There's this pushback becausenaturally you as a human maybe
you don't want to work the sameway, but you want to do
something you're naturallywanting to be doing something
(13:06):
out there, and that's why Ithink so many people that just
stop working.
I see it every, not every day,but I see it in the business, uh
, where I work with people thatare in retirement, the
retirement phase, and they'retrying to figure out who they
are and they're trying to getout of a depression that hit,
and you know all this stuff thatcomes up when we feel like
(13:30):
we're supposed to relax, we'resupposed to just not do anything
yeah, these really big coreideas that we latch onto and
then build.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Build a towards a horizon that we don't even
really know what it is.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, and we probably , you know, overestimate how
good that's going to be.
Yeah, and you know you don'ttake the time and this is where,
sometimes, releasing thesethings, taking the time to know
what you really want, yourealize, realize, like you know,
maybe I don't need as muchmoney as I think, especially if
(14:10):
we take care of some of thosemoney scripts.
So, for example, if you're amoney worship person, who's the
workaholic, who's always justspending, spending, spending,
you know in your mind youprobably need, you know in your
mind you probably need, you know, $10 million to retire.
But if you heal that, maybe youthink, oh, I only need $1
million, and I already have four.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So maybe I can now choose to like structure my life
different and not worry aboutmoney as much.
And in that script there that,that program that says you know,
I'm not happy unless I'mgetting stuff and new stuff and
having stuff like the wholeworld of stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
That's a program unto itself yeah, it's a whole and I
should, right, I should buythis.
You know my neighbors have thisthing.
I should do that.
I should check this out.
I, you know I should travel.
Travel is another thing thatinterests me because, you know,
people really only travel placesbecause they heard a story
(15:16):
about someone traveling to thatplace or they read a book about
it and they want to see it andthere's nothing wrong with that.
I also think that's kind ofhuman nature and hearing those
stories and wanting to travel,like because human beings, we
want to travel and explore and,you know, meet other people from
(15:37):
other places and we weretalking about today traveling
and and we were talking abouttoday traveling and just writing
and did like home, like goinglike this, so for anyone
listening, just hands over youreyes, looking down, close out
the world.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Close out the world.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Don't see anyone else , just the beach just the beach
yeah just me writing on thebeach, yeah yeah there's nothing
wrong with that yeah, I guess Ithink about you know just well,
you guys know this because youknow me.
I just always think ofeverything as a program.
(16:19):
I just wonder how much is inour minds that is genuinely us
right.
What is genuinely me Isgenuinely me sitting on the dock
all day long, every day, doingnothing.
No, but it was kind of a dreamfor a while.
(16:43):
No, but it was kind of a dreamfor a while, and embracing that
maybe yeah, maybe that was evensomething I would have wanted to
do when I was younger for aperiod of time, and that maybe
that's not a lifestyle, that'sjust a nice hobby, right,
something that's actuallyhealthy and helpful.
(17:04):
But you know, I buy into thestory of retirement being this
shut it down and be content kindof lifestyle and it's not
satisfying.
It's not satisfying for meanyway.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, I think we get sometimes.
That's a sign of burnout whenyou're younger and it's like
fantasizing about sitting on thedock all day for eternity.
You're just like, oh, thatwould be really nice.
And you know, I think too likethere's nothing wrong with
sitting on the dock.
And you know, right now I'mlooking out at the water and
(17:40):
it's beautiful and it's healthy,but it doesn't mean that's what
I have to do all day, every day, forever.
It's often seeking that.
You know we can use the wordbalance, of making sure you're
fitting those things in and ifyou're recharged and that helps
you recharge, it helps you.
Maybe you know work and dothings a bit longer yeah, where
(18:06):
did that idea come from?
even I was listening to aconversation recently with Dan
Sullivan who was talking abouteven the concept of retirement,
because in his program StrategicCoach, he has a few ideas.
One is the lifetime extenderand you know he plans to live
till he's 126.
(18:27):
And he's in his late 70s nowand in his earlier 70s he
decided he was going to write100 books and he writes a mini
book every quarter for 100quarters.
So that's part of his plan andhe's continually, you know,
developing team andcollaboration around him.
(18:49):
So he gets to do the work thathe loves and enjoys the most and
is kind of working kind of lesshours and to him it's like,
well, why would I ever retire?
Like his job is thinking andcreating tools and being around
interesting people.
So, um, you know, retirementeven as a concept is fairly new
(19:13):
because people you know, wouldkind of work their trade or do
their job in the community.
They may slow down but theydidn't really stop until maybe a
few years before they passedaway.
But it was the, I believe thefrench who invented it for
generals and it was when theywere older.
(19:35):
They would have people kind ofretire so that younger people
could take over.
And he made a little joke,whereas you know the french have
a long history of understandingthat it's not good to have
young people angry andunemployed so because of the
revolutions.
So if you have people retire tokind of make room for younger
(19:59):
people, that was kind of theoriginal concept yeah and even
then people didn't live.
You know, it wasn't like now,where I remember a lady in
Fenlon Falls, frida Kelly, wholived to, I think, 102 or she
was pretty old, but she had beena full-time school teacher and
(20:21):
at one point, talking about how,you know, she'd been collecting
a pension longer than sheworked, For her.
And you just think, yeah, likeretirement wasn't longer than
you worked.
You know when we roll back andand as we get healthier, as you
know, we learn more about how totake care of ourselves, and
(20:44):
medical science, and even youknow the internet has helped us.
You us connect to people whocan help heal you and help
unpack these things.
So why not change the conceptof retirement and lend to retire
?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well, and it reminds me of what's gone on for my kids
.
We have this big should aboutsaving and planning for
someplace way down the road andwe program that in, but the flip
side of that is that theeconomy has shifted and there's
(21:22):
not a lot of loyalty out there.
There's not a lot of loyaltyfrom employers to employees.
I watched my kids get into jobsearly in their working life
that you know.
I felt like the employer didn'trespect them.
I felt like the employer wasn'thonoring them and they were
there knocking themselves out,looking for something that the
(21:43):
employer had no intention ofgiving them, which was all
locked into.
How do I save to have all thesethings that I'm supposed to
have, because that's whateverybody told me I should have.
And then two of my sons did, Ithought, amazing things.
My one son he worked inadvertising.
He did all kinds of reallygreat creative work.
He's a wonderful artist andhe's a musician too.
(22:06):
But what he did was he'd workhard for agencies on a contract
basis and he'd make himself anice little pocket and then he'd
buzz off for three months andtravel Europe, right, and and it
got to the point where I wassort of saying, well, where are
you going next, right?
What's the next plan?
And I liked it and I respectedit, because what he was really
(22:29):
saying, I think, to employerswas you know, if you're not
going to make a commitment to me, then I'm going to live a life,
I'm going to give a life that Ilike my other son he took.
He was working for banks and hefinally got a good position in
the bank but said heck with it,I'm taking a year off.
And he took a year of leave andhe traveled around the world,
(22:50):
Right, and he did that young,like in his early 30s, Right.
And that again, I was really, Ireally admired that he had no
obligation to anybody excepthimself and he, I think in a lot
of ways he really honored that.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, I love those stories because I think that's
the the choice we have andunpacking some systems as well,
because even that system ofloyalty goes back to the
Industrial Revolution and Ithink the employers used to be,
I think, more loyal and expectedmore loyalty.
(23:27):
But it was.
We didn't have the same freedomof movement.
You know, people might live ina company town near the
manufacturer and they wanted to,you know, get people to kind of
have consistent labor for along time, so they had some
better packages.
They were also smart, I think,in.
(23:48):
You know, pay people less nowbut they might have had better
benefits to kind of kick the candown the road for the company
into the future.
And a lot of that stuff changedin the kind of late 90s, early
2000s.
You know they stopped doingpension funds and it was all.
You know, all the employercontribution things.
(24:10):
So we have some built-in betterchoice as employees where a lot
of pension plans are guaranteedbut they'll contribute, which
just means you could take thatwith you a bit more.
And some employers complainthat there's no loyalty,
employers complain that there'sno loyalty but they kind of
(24:30):
created that new system as aresponse to not wanting to have
the liability of loyalty thatcomes with that trade-off.
And when you understand thatyou can choose to do things like
work hard for eight months andtake off for three and what's
(24:52):
the worst that happens, you workan extra couple of years and it
probably for your son.
It allows them to not get burntout and work extra years, and
also that travel probably fuel,fuels that creativity even more.
And you know, I think that'sthe type of thing, as humans, we
want to do.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I feel like, too, the um, our mind is probably
obviously the biggest thing thatgets in the way of doing those
things that we want to do, butmaybe we think it's off in the
future and I don't have enoughmoney right now.
There are countless stories,whether they're real or not,
like that I've seen or I'vewitnessed online or I've heard
(25:38):
of, where people just go andthey, they just go and and do
what they want to do and it'ssomehow like you were saying
yesterday, it works out.
Right, these things work out.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, they find a way of working out, and you
understand the world's different, and you're right.
So many people say, well, Ijust don't have the money right
now to do this, and that may betrue, but when you start
unpacking sometimes, why don'tyou have it?
And it could be well.
I need to work hard and that'sa should, right.
(26:16):
You should work hard.
You should get a good, good,stable job like.
I left the bank as well, um,and it's like people thought I
was insane because it's like, oh, the bank, like that's a good
job.
You, you know, be there forever.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Um, how boring is that.
How terrifying is that you'd bethere forever.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Oh, I remember one time thinking like I worked with
a lot of people who had beenthere a long time and I remember
I was in fenland falls workingin fenland falls.
I was cutting my lawn one dayand thinking, is this it like?
Is this going to be my life forthe next 40 years?
Like am I going to retire fromhere?
(26:55):
And it didn't scare me thatmuch, but I just remember I
didn't really have the tools Ihave now to really think through
that and now my life's changedlike probably 10 different times
over and over since that pointand just knowing, like how
(27:19):
things can change it's just areminder like you can explore
something else and to understandlike, yeah, why am I doing this
?
You know some other shouldsaround, that is, people might
say things like well, you shouldnever turn down work and people
who work a crazy amount ofovertime.
And I find some of those peopleare also the ones who never
have any money for the thingsthey want to do right now
(27:42):
because they're usually soothingthemselves with maybe buying a
bigger house or buying bigger,more expensive vehicles or just
spending.
And you know they're in creditcard debt.
So they're in this trap ofworking extra because they're
told they shouldn't give up workand they're exhausted and burnt
(28:04):
out and don't feel like theycan have a break because you
know they have too many big lifeobligations that probably don't
serve their vision for how theyreally want to live either.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, it, just it's so.
It's such an enormous programwhat people live in terms of
becoming an adult and then allthese things that they think
they should acquire and theyshould have and they should be,
and you walk through suburbanneighborhoods filled with these
(28:41):
40 year olds that have two kidsand a lawn to cut and a mortgage
, and it's not so much that theyown a house, but the house owns
them, because everything intheir life is designed around
that and they never, ever, likeit was never, considered that
(29:01):
question of well, what do youwant, what would you like to do?
Like I really admire people whosay I don't want to have kids, I
don't want to have thatlifestyle, I don't want to be
stuck in a job for 30 years.
I really admire people who are,because I see it as a dramatic
(29:23):
challenge to the programmingthat went in for decades, really
in the first 20 years.
That went in for decades,really in the first 20 years.
Just so much of a worldview ofthis is the way it's supposed to
be and this is what success is,and if you're not that, then
you're not successful.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yeah, it just makes me think.
I grew up and my dad worked forNortel, which doesn't really
substantially exist anymore, andhis whole life was there, like
all these people he talked tohad been there forever.
So I grew up around all thesepeople who you got a job, you
(30:01):
stayed loyal and you were therefor all these years and you'd
hear of people leaving and Iremember thinking what are they
going to do?
Like their whole life is ruined.
And then when that plant theyclosed and my dad was sort of
forced to retire early.
Like it's just so dangerous andyou're like not sure what to do
(30:21):
.
But everyone found a way.
I think of all his friends andthese people he worked with and
it was great.
But people worried about dangerand, like you know, they'll
never find a good job again,they won't be able to accomplish
any of their goals and all ofthem found something else to
work on.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Like you know, things have a way of working out it's
kind of like it reminds me ofsomeone who wants to quit
smoking and thinking about theside effects or or what's going
to happen after they quitsmoking.
The words escaping me right nowfor some reason withdrawal
(31:04):
withdrawal symptoms andeverything, all symptoms and
everything.
It keeps them from quittingRight.
So it's sort of the same withmoney and jobs and these ideas
that we have in our mind that weshould be doing the exciting
(31:29):
kind of freeing, able to breatheagain.
Thoughts, in a sense, are heldback by.
Well, how do I get there?
What do I have to go through?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
All I go through is, I think, the common theme of
like we have to go throughcertain stages of life and I
know for me I lost in some wayslike parts of my 20s and 30s,
trying to like spread to headbecause I think about, you know,
coming out of school.
It's like, well, I should payoff my student loans really fast
.
I should also be saving forretirement because, hey, I'm
(32:10):
young and the longer I save, themore money I can make.
And oh, I should also buy ahouse and I should also have a
car, and I should also do thisand this, and it just stacks on
top of you and you just can't doit all at once.
And even advancing at work andlearning like I know now, it was
unhealthy, but I was alwaysdoing extra courses, extra
(32:32):
certifications and it just itcould take away so much.
Just add all of this stressbased on things I thought I
should be doing yeah.
All related to money, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Think, when you can ditch should, then you can start
to make choice.
It's not what should I do, butwhat do I want to do.
What appeals to me Right?
Like a big question that I'm soproud of my kids, where do I
(33:08):
want to live?
Like?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
I can live almost anywhere in the world really,
why couldn't I?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
the only reason I couldn't is my own limitations
in my own mind.
And yeah, and my kids up andmoved to Vancouver and they're
just loving life.
It's a different lifestyle.
It's certainly differentgeography and with that comes
different personalities.
There's a freedom, I think,that we're afraid of when it
(33:38):
comes to making choices.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
This reminds me.
I have a friend named Ian andhe recently said to me he's like
I can see many future versionsof a happy Ian.
Hmm, and I really like thatbecause, say it again, many
future versions of a happy Ian.
(34:01):
I like that and currently livesin Montreal, works for his
family business, which is inOntario.
So he does some online work andsome studying and lived for a
lot of years in korea and reallyenjoyed it there and at one
point like felt like home forhim and one of the things I
(34:24):
learned from him is even justmany versions of you know, you
will adapt to the lifestyle.
So there in cities, like he hada stove but he never cooked at
home.
So in his apartment he had thistiny little cooker they would
call it um but he never used it.
Because he's like you couldjust walk out on the street and
(34:45):
the street food was soinexpensive that he's like why
would I cook something?
I can just walk down my stairs,walk out and for $2 I can buy
you know something from onevendor and for another $2 from
someone else and you just makeyour meal based on walking
through the street and that's sodifferent than you know loading
(35:09):
up the truck from Costco andcoming home to your big freezer
and he thought it was weirdcoming back and he thought he
hadn't froze something or hebarely refrigerated anything
because it was so close.
And he just thought it was sostrange to him to come back to
that Because you just you knowyou have to trust the food
(35:32):
vendor is going to be there thenext day.
But that was just a differentlifestyle.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Are we scared of freedom?
What is it about freedom thatmight scare us?
That it might go away if wehave it.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
That it might go away if we have it.
I think of the line from thelast Matrix movie, which I'm a
big fan of those movies, and inthat movie the character
Morpheus says just as not allwish to be controlled, not
(36:12):
everyone wants to be free, and Iguess there's a.
You know, when I think aboutthis, I always think about there
are certain things that we needto concede to Like language.
Like language allows us to grow, it lets us learn it, lets us
connect with each other.
Language is something.
Why would I fight what languageI would learn?
(36:34):
Why would I resist learningmore than one language?
Language is one of those thingsthat we conform to but it's
really valuable.
But at the same time, why wouldI think in terms of jobs and
careers, how does that benefitme?
(36:55):
And why would I think in termsof ownership of things as the
only method?
And I guess you know somepeople really love the idea of
doing the right thing, and doingthe right thing requires that
(37:19):
the right thing be defined forthem, and some people really
like the idea of doing, I don'tknow.
Maybe the better phrase is Iwant to do the next thing, the
thing that I have instincts andimpulses to do.
Um, and I think those peopleare less, less in need of being
(37:43):
told right and wrong, and goodand bad and I don't and bad and
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, and I think it might be generational as well.
I know when I was a teenager Idon't know what they do now in
high schools but it was what doyou want to be?
(38:14):
You've got to be, something thatis going to bring in a pension,
right, it was all aboutteachers, lawyers, doctor, you
know, not an artist, god helpyou right?
And I see even just 10 yearsyounger, so 30s people not
(38:36):
feeling like they have to besomething that's going to bring
in a pension.
I also see almost in mygeneration, your generation,
like a giving up.
I know you see that there's okay, well, okay.
Well, I guess you know pensionsaren't a thing any longer, so
(38:57):
you know.
But I see these younger peopleand unfortunately they're
criticized by it for it.
I see I see a lot of peoplecritical of it, usually older
people, um, but this fact thatthey're just doing what they
want a lot of them, not all ofthem- but they're being
criticized by people who thinkthat there's a right way to do
(39:18):
it.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah and I think what's what I like about this is
, you know it's a suggestion youwould have got from an older
generation based on what I thinkthey saw like.
I know I was raised as youshould do this, this and this.
Basically, it's because peopleI know who do this, this and
this have these great pensionsyes, and even the idea of a
(39:40):
pension.
Some people don't even knowwhat that means and they don't
know what their pension is orwhat it means.
I remember being in the bankand people breaking down in
tears because they had theseprofessional jobs with great
pensions that they didn'tunderstand and didn't look at
the payments and then when theyfound out how much money they
were actually getting everymonth, it was not at all what
(40:00):
they thought it was going to be.
They had been kind ofconditioned to say like this is
your free ticket forever.
And I remember especially someteachers thinking thinking well,
I can't live on this.
This is only 50 of what I makenow and I'm already
overextending myself.
How am I going to?
You know, live next year?
(40:22):
And you know you have to learnto make choices in freedom.
My favorite definition offreedom really is having an
ever-expanding choice set.
So you have choices.
So I think we are afraid offreedom because some people are
afraid of choosing and ideaslike pensions you know they
(40:47):
really were only around for alittle bit and now no company's
really doing them the way theyexisted before and they even
before.
They changed them because theywere only really meant to last a
couple of years, like it waslike, give your life to the
company and you know, between 65and 68, when you're gonna to
(41:08):
die, we will pay for it.
And some companies did somecreative things.
A friend of mine from Atlantawas saying all his uncles moved
to Detroit way back when and youknow, if you passed away part
of their retirement was yourhouse got paid off.
But that was, you know, inexchange for probably some lower
(41:33):
wages at the time.
But they were looking for kindof lifetime employees and that
doesn't exist now.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
No.
Well, when my son said theywere going to travel the world,
what I said was that the key tofreedom was being debt-free and
no financial responsibility forsomebody else.
If you don't have a financialresponsibility to take care of
somebody and you don't have anydebt, you have more choice.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Oh, heck yeah.
And I think that's where youknow understanding, you know,
and we have all these toolsthings like debt that's another
one is like, oh, I should payoff all my debt too fast or I
should never get into debt.
And you know when you look atit, if you look at, a lot of
business is built on leverageand proper smart leverage.
(42:23):
There's also, you know, if weget into, you know, racial
inequality, white privilege.
You can look at which groups ofpeople are able to access debt
more and then you know it can bea wealth builder if used
properly.
But again, it's a should rightand you know, when you don't
(42:46):
have it, you have more choiceand freedom and you can focus on
, I think, developing yourselfand your own skills.
That then gives you morefreedom and choice.
Your son, who's the artist thathas traveled, probably is a very
talented and skilled person whohas a lot of choices.
Skilled person who has a lot ofchoices and, yeah, can't just
(43:12):
live life and travel forever andyou know, maybe never.
You know, live that life ofluxury but knows that when they
need to maybe go into a seasonof earning, has a lot of choice.
So it's probably not even goingto be terrible.
It's not like he's going to thecoal mine and like scrubbing
people's boots or something it's.
Hey, I have these skills.
(43:33):
I can go focus and apply themfor a while and then go do
something else I see that almostlike a muscle, like a building
of a muscle of choice knowingthat you have choice right.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
So he has put himself in a situation, in situations
over and over and over again,where he's tested himself and
seen results right, and so it's,it's like he's, he's, he's
built up this knowledge that youknow, we know that knowledge
(44:11):
that you know, we know that,well, to get woo-woo, like the
universe will provide, let's sayright, he knows that he can go
out and find something and itwill happen and he'll get
through.
And I think it's a, I thinkthat is something that would be
good for all of us to to, totest to, to build that muscle of
knowing that we can have choiceI love that.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
You're brilliant, as per usual.
I wrote that down in bigletters the muscle to have
choice and knowing I think theuniverse will provide you a
choice versus maybe you knowsome people like well, if I know
, imagine an apple and I neededan apple, an apple will appear.
Maybe that's you know I used tolike laugh at that.
(44:55):
Maybe it will, but it willmaybe give you a choice of how
to get an apple.
A friend of mine was talkingabout when he was younger,
driving up to the Yukon with afriend of his and he's like we
just kept going and then werealized we had no money if we
had no gas.
But they came upon a gasstation with a restaurant and
(45:18):
they were.
They had enough work for themto do.
They just asked kind of for ajob and they let them do a bunch
of inventory work and all thesejobs that got them a tank of
gas so that they could drive on.
So it provides choices for us.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
When you got no debt yet, don't owe anything to
anybody, then then you're in aposition to make those choices.
I, you know, I, you guys knowme choice is a huge idea for me
and it's just everything.
I've written about it, I'vestudied on it, I've taught it.
It's really important to me andfor me.
You know, I've tried to do that.
(45:58):
I left the practice of law.
I said I don't like this, Idon't like this lifestyle.
And I didn't leave it likesaying, saying I'm throwing you
out the window, just I'm gonnatake a break.
And then I I tried somethingelse because I was doing a lot
of public speaking.
I tried teaching and then I gotgiven a choice really early on
(46:18):
to sort of go all in on that,that teaching at that level,
those kinds of and I felt reallygood about exercising that
choice.
And then recently I retired andagain it feels good to the soul
to say you know, I've had enoughof this, this is not working
(46:39):
for me anymore.
This is not, this is notspeaking to me in any kind of
meaningful way other than mybank account, right, and I'm
going to take it.
Take a choice, and it's not somuch that you throw yourself
perilously into being broke, butif you've managed to not find
yourself up to the eyeballs indebt, then it's not that big a
(47:04):
risk.
It is starting to realize justhow you know, we're all so
filled with curiosity andcreativity and there's so many
talents we have and it's neverjust one and we lose sight of
that.
We lose that trust in ourselves, and that just comes because
(47:27):
we're busy listening to otherpeople doing the shoulds, doing
what we think we're supposed to,rather than what would be
really exciting.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I love starting out all my engagements with I call
it the Spice Girls question,which is, tell me what you want,
what you really really want,and I think I'm on a multiple
year journey to be able to evenanswer that question.
Yeah, Because you startunpacking, like you know the
things I should want, Right,Like, and then you start trying
(48:00):
to, you know, hold each one upand be like do I actually want
this?
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Do I want to own a house?
And you know, before we wrapthis out, I'll do my rant on
housing because I think that's abig one that people are
conditioned.
It's like buy a house, you knowthe value is going to skyrocket
and it's your ticket toeverything.
And that's usually based on youknow something from a previous
(48:27):
generation.
A lot of those gains havehappened and I've watched some
early 20s people just sick withanxiety because they feel like
they're going to be a failure ifthey don't buy a house before
they're 25 years old withouthaving thought about where do
they want to live.
Do they want to have a family?
(48:48):
Without having thought aboutwhere do they want to live?
Do they want to have a family?
Like you know, they buy a houseset up for a family and then
they realize they don't want tohave kids and kind of forcing
yourself into these otherpeople's choices early really
gets in the way.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
It's like there's this strange combination of
somebody else's script of what agood life is supposed to look
like, combined with a kind of a,a terror, a fear of what the
future might hold and that fearof looking back and saying, oh
(49:26):
geez, I failed.
But failure is well you know,you've heard me say it it's
non-existent.
Failure just means you quittrying, because if you really
want to attain something, you'lljust keep trying until you do,
and that's what we've learned tobe.
But failure often isn't failure.
It's waking up and saying Idon't really want this, I don't
(49:52):
want to pay this price for that.
I don't want to put in thattime.
Give up these aspects of me inmy life and it's time to take a
new direction.
And almost always that's theresult of somebody else's script
, adopting somebody else'sscript even that fear of like.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
I know I have a lot of business owners I coach who
are afraid of you know,bankruptcy or what happens if
their loans go bad, andsomething that's I often say is
like I've never met anyone inCanada who's been hauled away by
the police because theirbusiness went bad or bankrupt.
Like you know, bankruptcy, youknow even foreclosure on a house
(50:31):
is so relatively rare and youhave so many choices along the
way to make a change and I knowseveral people who have gone
through things like that.
They all bounced back betterthan ever.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I don't know anyone who hasn't yeah, because it
almost gives you that freedomyeah, a little bit right, so
load off yeah, forces you to achoice, or you think it's this
giant failure.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Then you realize oh actually I'm happier and less
stressed yeah, yeah and turnsout I didn't want a big, giant
house anyway and all of thesethings that you know.
Had you kind of done some ofthis work earlier, you might
have realized earlier and madesome more choices for you what
(51:18):
are some more shoulds you gotthere to me, the big ones.
I think we've kind of coveredretirement house, what we're
spending on.
I guess another one is thingswe shouldn't spend on.
That bother me.
So things like, oh, I shouldn'tbuy a lot of its food, shame or
consumption fate.
(51:39):
Like shouldn't buy the latte, Ishouldn't get takeout, I
shouldn't go out for dinner, andI understand that and I you
know there can be times wherethat spending is problematic to
our long-term future goals.
But food has always existed andfood's always been a part of
(52:01):
community and connection.
And I also have this weirdfascination with beverages and I
think you know beverages, liketea, are a way to like
collaborate with leaves fromaround the world and all the
people who were involved ingetting it to you, and then you
can drink it and experience itthrough your body.
So you know, if we think oursouls are here to live in this
(52:23):
body, we can experience a lot ofthings by putting it through
our body.
Yeah, and the history of theworld can be told through
beverages.
You know exploration tea, youknow.
I remember.
You know samuel l jackson, if Ican swear on this, did a
documentary and was in southamerica and a coffee plantation
(52:47):
and some of the very firstslaves from africa were brought
for coffee and he was like allof this for a motherfucking
drink.
I'm like I love that saying andlike especially with samuel l
jackson saying it his way I waslike that's true and what I take
(53:09):
from that and you know, thingslike coffee shops are places to
gather, places to connect, sowhen we walk in and then shame
ourselves, it's completelyuseless.
So I know and I the same, I'llcount up where I spend my money
each month, because I havelong-term goals, short-term
things, and I've done so muchwork and I continue to do it to
(53:34):
take my should away from my, youknow, spending at kindred and
court northward, because it'snot really realistic to live a
life where you just never drinka nice beverage so where's the
balance there?
Speaker 1 (53:48):
where's the balance where you know spend like a
millionaire?
And you'll get there one day.
Where is that?
Because even I mean, I strugglewith that absolutely.
I think about saving and Ithink, well, I have the limiting
(54:09):
belief of, well, there's notenough coming in to save, right,
so it goes out the door quickly.
So when I walk into a coffeeshop, I think, well, what the
hell?
Yeah, right, I don't have that.
Oh, I should save this.
Maybe I should have more of it.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Well, all these shoulds, yeah, and I think it
comes back to visioning what youwant for yourself and trying to
deal with those beliefs aboutnot enough coming in.
It could also be a sign thatyou don't need as much coming in
, maybe, but the answer isalways it depends right on what
(54:53):
you really want and then why.
So when you imagine your lifeand what's really of value, you
know you can understand whatyou're going to do.
I think with food too the otherpart you know food and money.
I think you know it could beeverything you ever just deal is
on.
(55:13):
Is you know why am I like I'vecome to the conclusion or not
conclusion but the idea that alot of my spending is for
connection.
So when I look at my kindredbill every month, it's like, oh,
what I'm really getting is I'msoothing, my need to go sit in a
(55:33):
place where I see people andconnect, so that, in a way, is
not that expensive.
It's not necessarily you knowwhat I'm eating.
If I take something liketakeout, for example, I think
there's a correlation withalmost everyone of how much
(55:54):
takeout am I getting versus howmuch of my may be overworking
and soothing, maybe something Idon't want to be doing.
So it's a, you know, aninvitation to find some balance,
because I you know, I think, um, and I follow some other woo
woo stuff about when you createand make your own food, you know
(56:19):
it's your nervous system takingcare of its own needs to a
certain level.
But I also think if you only doit for yourself, you're missing
out on the connection and theopportunity to share and trade
somewhere else.
So everyone's going to have abalance of some sort.
And that's the invitation ofdigging in to figure out what
(56:42):
that means for you, versussaying, oh, I should never get
takeout again and then everytime you get takeout, you just
sit and shame yourself while youeat it.
Um, and I, you know I'm amaster at shaming myself and
master at some of that over life, and a lot has changed now
where, like, I'll sit in arestaurant and eat and think
(57:05):
about who made it and kind ofthe collaboration, and I see it
as you know, a way to connect tothose people and a way to, you
know, eat in community.
And you know there's somethingthere for that, knowing that.
You know it doesn't fit mylifestyle to do that, you know
three times a day every everysingle day.
(57:26):
But you know there are times aday, every single day.
But you know there are timesand cultures where that's, you
know, the people who take careof the food, and then everyone
gathers and, you know, doessomething else, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
What do you think and maybe this is for our next
podcast, because I think itmight be a big subject what do
you think about?
I'll use myself as an example.
I think I told you this before,but I think that if I don't
look at my money, I'll be okayright so.
(58:03):
I do not check my credit card.
Do not check my credit card, Ido not check this is like so
many things are making sense now.
You know, I get the I, I.
You know I have a, I just Ijust don't look as much as I
maybe should.
Is that avoidance?
Speaker 3 (58:20):
oh yeah, that's totally the script of money,
money avoidance.
So you know, money avoidanceand it's very common and
especially the type of businessyou have, like money avoidance
is a thing and a lot of it, youknow um comes down to.
(58:41):
You know, releasing some ofthat should probably lots of
money, specific shoulds to giveback to someone uh, self-worth
as well, you know, if you feelguilty for desiring money as
part of you know one of thethings in there and knowing that
(59:01):
you are, you know, worthy to beable to receive and hold that.
But yeah, it's definitely amoney-avoided script that needs
to be rewritten.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yeah, well, yeah, I wonder what the writing should
be.
Tite wants to play with you, sowhat's been coming into?
My head as we're sitting hereand maybe this might be a good
place to break this wine switchto the wine with Hillary yeah,
(59:37):
that's right.
Shift to the wine shots ofwhiskey.
Chapter 3 on this podcast, theidea of.
I think that there, the idea of.
I think that one of the bigthings we don't do well in our
world today, and especially inthe society that we're living in
(01:00:00):
, is we don't balance very wellor very clearly our obligations
to ourselves and our obligationsto the whole, to the community.
We find that we have acommunity where there are people
out there who give, give, give,give, give.
(01:00:21):
They're always involved ineverything.
They think their job is allabout serving the community.
You know, I have a buddy and theself-talk that he has is you
know, what am I going to dotoday to deserve to be part of
this community?
And like this is there'sthere's a real spectrum on this.
At the same time, there's, tome, there's a there's a natural
(01:00:46):
awareness of oneness, ofconnectedness you like using
food as that conduit intoconnection.
And we are connected.
We are because each of us are.
We only exist because othersexist.
Yeah, we are what we arebecause of our relationship with
(01:01:08):
others, for better or worse.
I mean, apart from the shouldsand the programs, we still are,
you know, an extension of eachother.
And then what we do is we buildan economic system and you know
me, I've always said itwhatever's created can be
recreated, and we've createdthis economic system.
(01:01:29):
Right now there's a lot ofpeople who don't want to
recreate it because they've gottoo much at stake.
They're doing really, reallywell and others are not doing
well at all.
You know, how do I honor myselfand benefit and grow and have
(01:01:57):
what I want to have, do what Iwant to do, be what I want to be
?
How does that intersect withall of this?
Is facilitated because we livein a larger society that that
allows that.
Um, how do I, you know, likewhat I I feel like sometimes?
That's what leads to avoidance.
(01:02:17):
That's what leads us to havesome of these scripts is that we
, we don't know how to balanceour contribution with our, what
we receive.
We don't know how to createenough so that we're taking care
of ourselves and and then have,you know, this idea of surplus,
(01:02:38):
this, this extra that we share,um, these are, I know, big, big
kind of goofy questions and Ithink about I don't like the
word responsibility.
I think about the idea ofresponsibility.
I like responsibility in theidea that cause and effect.
(01:02:59):
I act and there's an effect.
I look at the effect and thatcauses me to act in my next
action cause and effect,embraced, understood and then
lived out well, is to meresponsibility anyway, big, big
(01:03:25):
idea in question, but youbrought me here.
You guys are going to talkabout this stuff.
It's going to make me thinkthese things.
Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
So it's not, it's not my fault about these big ideas.
I love it because I think forme, responsibility I learned a
recently reframe that helped meis it's your ability to respond,
which is kind of like you say,these things happen and I can
choose how to respond and youknow it comes back to knowing
(01:03:53):
and loving yourself and yourgifts so that you can respond to
those things.
But it's not this grander thingof you.
Know, I am responsible to servefor others, for others, and as
someone working my way out ofthat, you know, we I always
thought the alternative was kindof selfishness, of like, well,
(01:04:14):
if I'm not giving and giving andgiving and serving, and serving
and serving, well, that'sselfish of me.
Now, kind of, where my mind isat is if I fully love myself and
I have skills and abilitiesI've developed, that I'm able to
collaborate with people andshare back and forth, that's
(01:04:39):
responsible, versus this ideathat I have to go out and, you
know, save everyone and give,give, give, give, give and maybe
if I give enough I'll getsomething back or I'll earn the
right to get something backso I think it's a um, it's like
almost like a day-to-day cycleof give take, give take.
(01:05:01):
And when you started yourquestion I was going to say, you
know to me the kind ofchristian idea of tithing.
It's not necessarily aboutmoney but it's about
contribution to the community oroverall trust.
So I was going to say, you knowone in 10, you know we give one
in 10 and keep 90.
But I actually think it'sprobably closer to 50-50 of that
(01:05:25):
responsibility, of like timefor me, time to kind of give to
the collective.
But that's not all necessarilywork or serving.
You know, even in things likeconversation or talking to
people, you know you're givingand collaborating and learning.
So you know, maybe it's closerto that 50 50 balance, knowing
(01:05:51):
that.
You know and this goes back tosome of the stuff we talked
about in the last one, about notgetting, you know, not
concerning yourself with thepolitics of getting ahead.
Sometimes we're all racingtrying to.
It's like we're all racingtrying to stockpile apples or
something that maybe only lastsa few days.
(01:06:11):
It's like if you, you can haveyour big pile but it's just
gonna rot before you can eat itall and you know that's not
helpful.
So you kind of have to trust,trust the flow a little bit yeah
, I was.
Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
I was just over here thinking about the idea of
avoidance and it makes me thinkabout how, growing up, it was
said to me this is totally alimiting belief.
That's coming to mind now.
It was said to me over and overby someone close to me like we
don't talk about money, youdon't ask about money.
(01:06:50):
Right, I couldn't ask as achild.
Well, even a teenager, child,teenager couldn't ask about
money in my household, right, itwas like you don't ask anything
about it or you get in troubleyeah, it's dangerous.
Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
It's dangerous to engage with money, and that's a
story that needs to be rewrittenyeah, I had that conversation
with my older sister about ayear ago you know she was.
We were talking about retirement, we were talking about
investing and where would youput money in house?
(01:07:26):
What's a good way to grow moneywhile at the same time
protecting money and these kindsof things.
And she pointed out, althoughthere's information out there
although you could do some websearches and you could hire
yourself an expert it's just notthe kind of thing people talk
about freely.
And she was really concernedthat you know why couldn't she
(01:07:50):
sit at dinner with her friendsand talk about well, what are
you doing and what's working foryou and how is that helping and
what's some mistakes thatyou've made?
So I don't make those mistakes.
And it was really, you know,like it was heartfelt from her
that this was something that shethought our communities are our
(01:08:11):
collections of friends andfamilies should be able to talk
more freely about maybe becauseeveryone wants to be seen as
doing better than they are?
Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
yeah, and if you start opening up about it and
that's the power structures aswell.
Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
As you know, it's designed on people not knowing
and this is where, like you know, there's no economic profit in
the long run.
If you want to know the bestthing to do, currently it's
index funds.
You know, this is not an advicechannel, but like the average,
if you can get average, that isthe.
(01:08:50):
That's the real best.
And when I talk to people Itruly see as experts.
That's where their own personalmoney is.
It's boring stuff, but ashumans and people trying to get
ahead, you know they, they jumpin and they do risky stuff and
then everyone else piles in andit creates a market you know dan
(01:09:13):
sullivan talks about.
You know, if you're tradingturds and everyone's like, hey,
I want some turds too, theprices go really high for a
while and then everyone realizeslike, oh, these are turds,
they're not worth anything, andthe price crashes and in the
middle someone made some moneyoff of that because they were
averaging it out with otherthings and it's it's kind of
(01:09:36):
dangerous to look at.
You know, and even in that world, a lot of people just don't
know, they avoid it, they'reworried that they're.
You know, they don't want tomake a mistake or they don't
want to be the person who lostall their money on something.
And to me, the fundamentals arelike, you know, if I were to
(01:09:57):
write a letter to my youngerself, it's develop your skills,
develop your abilities for whoyou are.
You know understand the lifeyou really want and what the
cost of that is.
You know earn more than youspend.
And you know in investor, savein the average and don't worry
(01:10:20):
about it.
And I say this as someone who'sa.
You know, I have a financialplanning designation.
I've probably read more thanany financial planner in this
community, for sure, um, and allof my conclusions point back to
, like you know, there's noeconomic profit in the long run.
There's no exact right answer.
Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
There's lots of wrong answers well, and that would be
the only thing that I would.
I would add to what you justsaid, which is, I think, for
many people it's not so much canI do the right thing with my
investments, but more theresulting paralysis that they
don't do anything right, I saidthat to my kids I said that the
(01:11:05):
only mistake you can make is todo nothing.
Yeah, and it triggered myyoungest son.
He was for a little while I wasjust blown away because he
suddenly got into got himself awealth simple account.
He got a little bit of money,he got into non-fungible tokens
he was just having a riot and,as a result, he, like a couple
(01:11:27):
of hundred dollars and then, youknow, bought a used car because
of the money that he hadcreated for himself and he
became really quite fascinatedwith it for a while and that has
waned.
I think that you know one ofthe biggest mistakes that we
(01:11:48):
make and I think you're right.
the system is not built to helppeople.
It's not built to go out of itsway to facilitate everyone
thriving, and I think that wekeep certain messages away from
(01:12:08):
people and they take that storyand they build that shame.
I don't know how to do this.
I couldn't do that.
I don't have what it takes.
They get guilty because they'renot doing anything and all that
does is make them not doanything even more.
And then go soothe with, like,something else that costs money,
that's right Spending the moneyon something that doesn't
(01:12:37):
doesn't serve them, becausesometimes people, you know they,
they soothe um with stuff theyknow doesn't serve them.
They, they comfort themselveseven in things that they don't
really want.
That, that script, that story,you know I should, I should do
this because everybody else isdoing that and I'm wasting.
Anyway, I think that there area whole combination of limiting
(01:12:58):
beliefs that lock people down,keep them afraid of money and
keep them afraid of doing thingswith their money, and I think
that that might be the place tostart Chapter 3.
Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Does that sue you super long.
Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
No, that's great.
There's something I want tobring up in Chapter 3.
Maybe it's a good openingactually, so I'll save it
Alright.
See you later after some drinks.
We hope you enjoyed today'spodcast and that maybe it helped
even a little.
If you have any questions, wewould love you to send them
(01:13:38):
along in an email to info atpsalmhypnosiscom.
Thank you for being part of theState of Mind community.
For more information abouthypnosis and the various online
or in-person services we provide, please visit our website,
wwwsomhypnosiscom.
The link will be in the notesbelow.
(01:13:58):
While you are there, why don'tyou book a free one-hour journey
, meeting with Hillary or Les,to learn more about what
hypnosis is and how you mightuse it to make your life what
you want it to be?
Bye for now.
Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
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