July 3, 2024 • 58 mins
Vicki and Elizabeth had a wide-ranging conversation with Harlan Cohen, college transition expert and author of The Naked Roommate: And 107 Other Issues You Might Run Into In College. Harlan shared why the transition to college can be so difficult and why finding your People, your Places, and having Patience can make a difference. Harlan encourages parents – and students – to understand that the first year of college, or at least the first semester, may be a terrible mess. Although that may not sound very positive, you’ll want to hear Harlan explain how that knowledge can be freeing and help students find their direction.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:10):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts as they sharesupport and a celebration of the
amazing experience of having achild in college.
Elizabeth Hamblet (00:51):
Welcome everybody to another episode of
College Parents Central.
I'm Elizabeth Hamlet.
I'll be one of your co-hoststoday, and we are delighted to
be joined by Harlan Cohen, theauthor of Naked Roommate and
several other books.
He's the head of a coachingprogram.
I am a huge, huge fan of hisand we're just so pleased that
he's going to be able to be here.
For those who are watching uslive on Facebook, we will not be
(01:13):
taking your questions, but youare welcome to join us for this
conversation.
Watch as we go along and thepodcast will drop.
July 3rdicki yes.
July 3rd, so if you are notalready subscribed to the
College Parents Central podcast,you're obviously not listening
to me, because I tell you allthe time you should.
So be sure to subscribe and itwill come to your phone in your
(01:38):
favorite podcast app then.
So, vicki, you want to get usstarted?
Vicki Nelson (01:43):
Sure, we're going to jump right in, harlan.
Thank you so much for takingtime to talk with us today.
I know you and Elizabeth havechatted before, but it has been
years that I've been wishing wecould get you, so I'm very
excited to have you here, thankyou.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Harlan Cohen (02:04):
I was just saying I'm so grateful to have the
chance to visit with you both,and I'm a big fan, so I'm
excited to be able to share.
Vicki Nelson (02:13):
Good Well, thank you for sharing, because I think
very much of the time collegeparents need all the help they
can get All of the voices,because our messages are often
very similar but we say themdifferently, so it really helps
people to hear different voices.
Elizabeth Hamblet (02:30):
And as I was listing all of Harlan's
accomplishments, I left out hispodcast.
Shame on.
Me, and so make sure yousubscribe to that one too.
Vicki Nelson (02:40):
Yes, because you were just a guest on that one,
so how dare you forget?
But I'm also a subscriber and afan and a listener, and so
y'all need all the informationyou can get, and so reach out to
all the resources, yeah, so Iwant to go back and I know,
harlan, you started as writingan advice column for newspapers
(03:04):
and you were syndicated in doingthat.
And what led you from doingthat to making your life's work
be about writing for collegestudents and helping them?
Harlan Cohen (03:18):
Well, I've always looked at my writing as
reporting on human emotions.
You know I was much moreinterested in people dealing
with relationships and andbreakups and conflict and how to
communicate, like.
To me that was so much moreinteresting than the news, uh,
(03:39):
and it also felt a lot morerelevant.
So it's always been this, thishunger to try and understand how
people communicate and how ouremotions work.
So I got really lucky that thatwas just what drove me and as
an advice columnist and Istarted writing my column after
I had an internship at theTonight Show with Jay Leno years
ago and one of the writerssuggested writing advice because
(04:00):
he wrote an advice column.
So I started doing that and Idid it in my college paper and
first I was just writing my ownquestions and answering myself
in front of everyone and then myfriends started to ask me
questions or I would write abouttheir problems and they didn't
realize I was writing abouttheir problems and really
connected with the columnbecause it was their lives
(04:22):
without them knowing.
Uh, then real people started towrite to me and at first I was
very, very much, uh, you know,flip and short, just kind of a
bit of a smart ass I was tryingto avoid saying smart ass, but I
don't know if there's anotherway to say it.
Um uh, a wise guy, right oh?
Elizabeth Hamblet (04:39):
why they don't think.
Harlan Cohen (04:39):
I'm breaking fingers and stuff.
Um, a wise guy, right, theydon't think I'm breaking fingers
and stuff, but I was always alittle flip and funny.
But then I started to get veryreal because I recognized people
had these real problems and Istarted to reach out to experts
and over the years that justexpanded and college is really a
backdrop to all of the issueswe deal with while we navigate
(05:03):
the transition from being a teento being an independent adult,
and it just happens to takeplace on this college campus
world.
So I became an expert on thatby virtue of trying to help
people to just deal with all thechanges and also trying to make
sense of my own challenges andstruggles that I dealt with
(05:24):
throughout the years, especiallygoing back to my challenges
navigating the transition tolife in college.
Vicki Nelson (05:31):
Well, college students are lucky that you
drifted into that world and youhave been, you say over the
years and I know there have beenquite a few, that you've been
doing this.
I started College ParentCentral in 2009, and you were
already well established, as youknow, one of the gurus of this
(05:53):
world.
So you've been doing it quite awhile and I'm curious whether
you have seen changes over thatamount of time in the students,
in the parents, in theirrelationship.
What's happened over thoseyears?
Harlan Cohen (06:10):
Well, I've seen the changes.
Then, when you look at thestatistics, you know, we know
that there has been an increasein terms of anxiety and
depression and studentsstruggling.
So you've got the students'mental health that's rapidly
declined.
And then you have the scarcity,the fear mentality of
(06:31):
admissions because I do a lot ofwork in admissions as well.
So you have this fear of notbeing able to get something and
you have to work so hard,starting so early into your
academic life.
So there's this buildup andthere's this anticipation, and
then there are these bigexpectations and then you get to
this culmination where you'rein and and you, you, you.
(06:56):
Now you start.
But when you start, whathappens is the expectations.
In reality, there's a biggergap than ever before because
there's so much anticipation,because there's.
So, in reality, there's abigger gap than ever before
because there's so muchanticipation, because there's so
much work, because there's beenso much burnout that I find
it's very hard for students tonavigate this change and it's
(07:18):
very hard for parents tounderstand this change because
the focus has been so much onsearch and selection as opposed
to transition, which is where Ilive and I've been advocating.
We need to talk abouttransition and college success
really begins with our own lifetransitions, and all of those
(07:42):
things have combined into thisstorm that has created an
environment where you have morestudents than ever who are
struggling and more parents whodon't know how to help, because
and we were talking about thisbefore we started recording
right now and I like talkingabout where we are because I
think each month, each week, isso pivotal we're in June, right,
(08:05):
so we just finished graduation.
Everybody's celebrating.
My son just my son graduatedthis June and today he texted us
a picture of him holding hishigh school diploma.
They take that one on the stage.
He's got this great smile andit's so, it's so wonderful.
And now it's shopping, and hewent to orientation and then, in
(08:28):
six weeks, that's when it allstarts.
And, elizabeth and Vicki, Iknow we know this, but most
students are not prepared.
Most parents do not have theinformation they need to help
their students to navigate thischange, and that's why, more so
than ever, I feel more compelledand more driven to find as many
(08:49):
ways as possible to helpstudents and parents to
understand what's coming, sothey can be excited, but they
can also be prepared, and moreof them are not prepared than
ever before.
Elizabeth Hamblet (09:04):
What kinds of things do you observe that sort
of like?
How does that play out forstudents?
Harlan Cohen (09:12):
Well, just before I share that, what do you two
think Like?
Do you think what I'm sharingis accurate?
Do you agree with that?
Vicki Nelson (09:19):
Absolutely, I agree.
Harlan Cohen (09:21):
A thesis on where we are.
Vicki Nelson (09:23):
And not only are students not prepared, parents
are not prepared for their owntransition, that their
relationship has to change ifthey're going to support their
student in the way that theyneed to.
Harlan Cohen (09:39):
Yeah, that's a big thing, and how to prepare for
that and the specific issues.
I think, Elizabeth, you wereasking me what are some of the
specific issues that studentsaren't ready for.
Is that the question?
Announcer (09:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Harlan Cohen (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Well, the way I like to process, cause I have ADHD, which I was
recently diagnosed I alwaysknew I had something going on
and I have these frameworks andI have these frameworks, I have
these ways of looking atuncomfortable or unfamiliar
situations where I can help bemore comfortable with the
(10:13):
unknown, because frameworks andsystems make the unknown less
anxiety provoking, anxietyprovoking.
So when you asked me thatquestion, the way that I process
, it is okay.
There are five big changes thatstudents are going to go
(10:34):
through and parents are alsogoing to go through these
changes and the acronym is SEPFAand it's a ridiculous acronym
and the P probably might createa little static, a little
feedback.
Sepfa it's a ridiculous acronym, but it's social.
Create a little static, alittle feedback.
Sepfa it's a ridiculous acronym, but it's social, emotional,
physical, financial and academic.
So these are the five bigtransitions.
(10:55):
So, when it comes to ourstudents, prepared for the
social transition, well, I wouldsay most of them are not.
They're very worried aboutmaking friends.
Many of them haven't been ableto make friends or haven't had
practice making friends.
Technology can be wonderful,but it can also be very
isolating.
The FOMO, the snap maps, uh,the, the anxiety, the social
(11:16):
anxiety.
I get so many students who arereally anxious and worried.
And then I get parents who areworried that their kids are
going to be the same as theywere in high school.
You know, there's this idea ifyou have a kid who's been a
little shy and reserved and andhas had some social anxiety in
high school, they're going tohave it in college.
Elizabeth Hamblet (11:34):
Yeah, which seems obvious, right, but I
think it's that optimism, right?
Yeah, it's not like.
Harlan Cohen (11:39):
It's not like this restart where the switch gets
flipped, but then they'll ask me, cause I do parent coaching too
.
It's not like this restartwhere the switch gets flipped,
but then they'll ask me becauseI do parent coaching too, and
they'll ask me you know, whatcan you do to help my child to
be better equipped and tonavigate this change?
And the biggest piece is tojust allow them to be, to give
(12:01):
them room, to just be presentwithout worrying, and we'll get
to the patience piece later.
But the social part takes time.
So then there's living with aroommate If they live on campus.
There's communicating.
There's communicating withprofessors, with your teachers.
(12:21):
One of the biggest challengesthat I have seen is the ability
to advocate.
And right and I know you'reboth shaking your heads it's
students really struggle, evenstudents who come from the most
regarded prestigious highschools and independent schools.
(12:43):
High schools and independentschools this idea of advocating
for yourself and knowing how toadvocate and advocating is very
much a social skill as well asacademic, and it's in every
aspect of our life.
Elizabeth Hamblet (12:57):
And it's a learned skill too, and it's one
that parents can teach.
And so you know, as somebodywhose focus is on helping
students with disabilities makea successful transition, you
know self-advocacy is somethingwe talk about all the time,
because once they're at collegethey are considered adults.
They're the ones who have toregister for accommodations and
(13:18):
do all of that stuff.
But you know there areopportunities leading up to
college for parents to teachtheir students how to do this
stuff.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Iwas going to say so.
You know, one of the things thatI like so much about your work
and you know it's really comingthrough to me lately I don't
(13:39):
know if it's just the videosthat happen to come up in my
feed is this, this notion ofbeing comfortable with the
uncomfortable.
So I think you know you justmentioned that we're in it.
We're in June, it's a time ofcelebration.
The kids have made it throughhigh school and everybody's
having a great time and thinkingabout what you know what, what
comfort they're going to buy forthe dorm, and it hasn't perhaps
(14:02):
yet set in that this is a wholenew place, a new environment.
Maybe your student doesn't knowanybody where they're going,
and I think you know, postpandemic too, I think parents
have had a lot of really qualitytime, maybe not always quality,
but a lot of time around theirstudents and they have, you know
, advocated for them becausethey're right in the room and
(14:25):
you know there there's thembecause they're right in the
room and you know there's justbeen so much time to be there
and to be available to theirstudents and now they're going
to go someplace where, in theory, there should be some
separation.
So you know and it's a wisecolleague said to me years ago,
transition to college doesn'tjust happen to the student, it
happens to the parents.
(14:46):
And so you know what is thisgetting comfortable with the
uncomfortable mean, and why isthat so central to the message
that at least I see comingthrough?
Harlan Cohen (14:57):
Yeah, well, I'm glad it comes through, because I
think this idea thatuncomfortable is part of change,
it's a normal, natural part oflife and transition and
embracing discomfort issomething we don't practice a
lot of.
So this idea of givingourselves permission to be
uncomfortable, with thisunderstanding that life change
can be difficult, really enablesus to not fight this natural
(15:20):
change but to walk alongside it.
I think that's where thesolution comes in, where, before
, you're asking, when it comesto all these changes, how can we
work through that?
You know how, how can a parenthelp, how can a student help?
And and the framework of ofreally wanting something what do
I want?
Everybody having something theywant and giving themselves
(15:42):
permission to be uncomfortable.
If they want friends, whatmakes them uncomfortable about
not finding friends?
Or what makes themuncomfortable about putting
themselves in places where theycan find friends?
And how can they start thinkingabout that early and how can
they start advocating forthemselves or practicing with an
understanding of how to tapinto those resources that are
(16:02):
available on a campus?
So and I want to give solutionsbecause I don't want to just be
someone who stirs the pot andcreates problems it's really
what do I want?
What makes me uncomfortable,and then people places patients.
That's the simple framework.
So, yeah, and it works so wellof what do I want?
Because, as a parent, there'scertain things we want, but we
(16:23):
also want to support our studentto even ask that question, and
I think most students don't askthat question because they're so
focused on being wanted.
They don't really think aboutwhat's going to happen the first
six weeks, what's going tohappen the first 12 weeks.
So let's start with what do youwant?
Even a conversation of of, ofwhere do you think you'll you'll
find friends other than justexisting and being in class and
(16:45):
being where you live or spendingtime where you live, and then
what makes you uncomfortableabout that?
And then, when we'reuncomfortable, when we can
identify things that make usuncomfortable, then it becomes
much easier to find the peoplein the places who are there to
support us.
So the example of a studentwho's taking classes, who's
(17:07):
registering for classes, whodoesn't know what classes to
take or is nervous about thisWell, who are some of the people
in the places on the campusyou're going to who could help
you?
Well, the answer is it's summer.
I don't know anyone, right, butthere's the orientation leaders
.
There are RAs who you can seethrough social media.
There's the orientation leaders.
There are RAs who you can seethrough social media.
There's the admissions officeyou can reach out to.
(17:30):
There's your academic advisor.
There are friends who possiblyhave gone to this school.
There might be a Reddit groupon social media.
There also could be some aDiscord server.
There are places where thereare people who have gone through
these experiences who can helpyou and support you.
(17:50):
But it starts with you and itstarts with us, as parents,
giving our kids permission toanswer the question what do you
want?
As opposed to telling them whatthey need to do or what they
should want.
So, so that's just a simpletool of like practicing of like
hey, what do you want?
And this is what I do when I dothe.
I do a lot of one-on-onecoaching and I do group coaching
(18:11):
and right now we're actuallystarting every other week for
the next 10 weeks or eight weeks, we're going through the five
areas of transition.
Where I'm where, each week, wetalk about one of the elements
of transition, one of thosepieces the social and then we
break down you got to wantsomething.
Okay, what are you a littleworried about?
(18:32):
The student who's anxious?
The student who doesn't have ahistory of being so social?
Okay, well, you want to meetpeople.
So how do you meet people?
What's one thing you can do?
Well, why don't you first putyourself in the places where you
are welcome and included,simply because you exist, where
you show up, and I love this,you know you show up and people
(18:55):
say welcome, and this is where,if a student needs
accommodations, the office thatworks with students is great,
because the people there arewonderful.
And you could also ask thosepeople.
Okay, who are some of thestudents who I should reach out
to?
Or what types of groups arethey in?
Are there activities?
Are there organizations?
When I'm directing students,it's multicultural groups, it's
(19:18):
first generation programs, it'svolunteer groups, it's these
large organizations where you'rewelcome and included.
So if you're athletic, how canyou do that?
So the things you did in highschool?
So if I want friends and I'muncomfortable that I'm not going
to make them, then what's myplan other than I'm going to
talk to people in my hall andtalk to them in class, or try to
(19:40):
get into a fraternity orsorority where I have no control
over access and I have to winpeople over, or I have to do
something in order to getsomething.
So I'm a fan of how do youcreate a world where the
dynamics are set up for you soyou can go after what you want.
And I know that gettingcomfortable with the
(20:03):
uncomfortable, my, my, myanswers are long, but but they
all connect because the gettingcomfortable with the
uncomfortable is I'm afraid I'mgoing to be judged, I don't know
people.
Um, I'm worried about rejection.
And and if you also follow me,I'm obsessed with rejection,
because at the root ofdiscomfort is this fear that
(20:24):
either I'm going to disappointmyself or someone's going to
judge me in an unfavorable way.
And when I can get comfortablewith this universal rejection
truth, this law of nature it'sanother one of those things I
created to make myself feelbetter, because people with ADHD
are oftentimes will have moreof a sensitivity to rejection.
So, teasing that out over theyears.
(20:46):
This law of nature, thisuniversal rejection truth, this
thing that should be on theperiodic table of elements, this
URT, it's an undeniable truth.
And as we go through life, thereare things we can control and
things we can't control, and theuniversal rejection truth is
always at play.
And when I don't get theoutcome I desire, instead of
internalizing it and thinkingI'm the problem recognizing
(21:07):
there can be lots of elements atplay.
So I don't have to get caughtin the shame cycle when I get
uncomfortable.
And for parents and supporters,we have ways we describe this.
You know you miss every shotyou don't take and other
metaphors.
But really what it is is theuniversal rejection truth, this
idea that there's somethingbigger than us and, instead of
(21:29):
feeling shame when we miss theshots, feeling like we're
present and we're doing thingsthe right way, because change is
uncomfortable and that's partof the process.
So that's how we can getcomfortable with the
uncomfortable as we go after thethings we want to support
ourselves during this reallyuncertain time of change.
(21:49):
I hope I brought it togethernicely.
Vicki Nelson (21:51):
Yeah, and it occurs to me that it's one thing
to be comfortable with your ownuncomfortable, and it's hard
for parents when they see theirstudent being uncomfortable.
For me to be comfortable withyour discomfort is very
(22:12):
different than being with my own, and parents, you know thinking
about how they can fit intothis that you described so well
of what students need to have aplan and all is is to help
students strategize those things, even even sometimes
role-playing.
You know how are you going tostart up a conversation with a
(22:36):
student in the dining hall?
Or if you reach out to that RA,what are you going to say?
That that these the simple, sothat Seemingly simple social
steps aren't always easy, forthe interpersonal relationships
are difficult for students thesedays.
Harlan Cohen (22:58):
When you were saying that I just want to jump
in, I was thinking of my son andthe idea that I'm, you know,
the idea of a parent roleplaying with their kid.
Like that's tough sometimes,you know, because it's like.
It's like and this is, I think,so important if they don't want
to play, if they don't want torole play, if they don't want to
think about these things, thenthat's okay.
(23:19):
And I, and I think that thispart of, for me at least, having
a son who's going through thisnow, you know, I'm I really I'm
committed to the fact that thisfirst year is going to be really
unpredictable.
There's going to be a lot ofwonderful things that are going
to happen, but there's alsogoing to be a lot of unexpected
(23:39):
things that are going to happen.
In order for me to be the bestsupport partner, I need to be an
observer, because I'm not thedirector.
To be an observer because I'mnot the director, and when
something happens, I need to askwhat my role could be.
(24:01):
You know, can't, can I help you?
Would you like some help?
Then then it becomes thiswillingness and this is what I
do when I, when I speak, I askthe students, I say, um, some of
you are going to really enjoythis and some of you are not in
a place where you're going towant to hear this, and wherever
you are, that's okay.
You know, I just happen to behere today and it might be a day
where you're welcome and opento this, and it might be a day
(24:22):
where you just don't want tohear me at all, which is totally
okay because I understand that,but I want you to know I'm here
when you need me, understandthat.
But I want you to know I'm herewhen you need me and if you want
to listen you're welcome to.
And I think that approach of Iknow, you know, uh, although I
kind of know more, but I'm notgoing to tell you that every day
, um, but I'm going to be opento that.
(24:43):
So then it's that parent who'slike you know, my kid shuts me
down because you know they arenervous and I'll just throw one
more thing in If your kid willnot engage with you.
This is where I think, and thisis the emotional transition
plan, that every student and I'mvery careful when I use
absolutes I think every studentneeds someone other than a
(25:05):
family member who is qualified,who has a history helping and
supporting students.
I think therapists arewonderful resources, but they
need to have someone other thanthe parent who they can talk to
as they work through thesechanges, because a parent is
just too emotional.
There's too much judgment andoftentimes too much
(25:26):
vulnerability.
Vicki Nelson (25:28):
Yeah, so I really I think these three P's are a
great way to for students tothink about what they need to do
.
I'm a little more curious aboutthe third P, because you've
talked about the people and theplaces and those are sort of
active things that you can workon.
(25:49):
You know, I'm going to go andtalk to this person or I'm going
to find my place.
Talk a little bit about this.
The third P of patience and howyou hurry up and wait.
Right, how do they do?
Harlan Cohen (26:04):
that.
Yeah, nikki, you have seen thisover the years.
You've seen children go throughthis, family members go through
this, and I think the patiencepiece is the hardest part.
Right, would you agree withthat?
Definitely, because thepatience piece.
As a parent, we have to watchour kids sit in it.
(26:27):
You know we have to watch themget upset.
We have to watch them hopefullyrecover.
You know we've got to watchthem advocate in the wrong ways
and then advocate in the rightways.
It's so hard.
So I have this again systems andways of framing the unknown
(26:51):
that, no matter what,everything's going to be okay,
like I truly am a believer andthis is the story that I tell my
family.
And the other day I think I wasa little more doom and gloom and
my and my, my kids called meout on it.
My wife called me out.
But this idea that everythingis going to be okay, it's going
to be okay, and if we know it'sgoing to be okay, as parents
(27:14):
truly know it's going to be okaymy kid fails.
What's going to happen?
Well, they're going to figureout how to not fail or they're
going to find a different paththat's going to align with who
they are and their interests,because I know they're
exceptional and they're going tolive an amazing life and if
they struggle, they're going to.
They're going to have peoplewho can help them.
(27:34):
I'll help them to find otherpeople so they could figure it
out, so they can end up taking astep in the direction that's
going to help them to find theirlight.
It will be okay.
Elizabeth Hamblet (27:47):
You know, I think, what's hard and you you
know Vicki you as a professorand Harlan is somebody who's
been interacting with collegestudents all over all these
years that patience thing.
It used to be that if you had abad interaction with a
professor or you got kicked out,you know you went to a party
and you didn't have a good time,like you'd have to wait till
(28:07):
the next day or later to callyour parents Right, the next day
or later to call your parentsRight.
So it forced patience onstudents and maybe forced a
little bit more emotionalresilience at that time because
you just couldn't get to them.
I mean, I called home on Sundaysbecause this long distance from
the phone booth down the hall Ihad a phone in our room when I
(28:28):
was in school, but you did tryto save your parents money, so I
mean both of you, I guess.
Do you think that that cellphone and that immediate you
know connection is alsosomething that's really getting
in the way of that patience?
Because, as Harlan said, it isvery hard to know your kid is
struggling and parents only wantthe best for their kids and
(28:51):
that temptation to just respondand fix and do things is one
that's hard.
Um, you know, um, so you knowanything, harlan?
You, you think about that andyou notice changes over the
years that you've been doingthis.
Harlan Cohen (29:06):
Yeah, well, you brought that up, because I think
sometimes I'm if I'm listeningto me, cause I'm always thinking
of of the listener I have these, this idea of it's going to be
okay.
Like how does that really helpme though?
Like how does that help meright now when my kid is crying
or there's a crisis and thereare other answers to it.
So, foundationally, it's goingto be okay.
(29:27):
But then you have to assess ina situation, is it an emergency?
Is this an emergency or is thisuncomfortable?
And for your student it mightbe an emergency because they're
dealing with something on top ofsomething else and they just
don't have the emotionaltolerance to deal with anything
more, but it's probably justsomething uncomfortable.
(29:49):
And that's where the 24-hourrule and a student and a parent
can talk about this and say, hey, let.
That's where the 24-hour ruleand a student and a parent can
talk about this and say, hey,let's live by the 24-hour rule.
When there's something very bigthat happens, because
information moves so quickly,let's just have a rule that when
it's really big and it's not anemergency, we'll give it 24
hours, right.
So we set the expectations andthen, when something big happens
(30:11):
, whether it's a grade or asocial situation that's
upsetting.
Okay, let's just see how itfeels tomorrow, if we can.
So building that in, because wehaven't had to build that in in
the past because there was thisnatural cycle, but technology
has really disrupted that.
And then, after that 24 hours,asking the question what do you
(30:32):
think you should do, which Ithink is a huge question, as
opposed to here's what we'regoing to do next.
Right, and even if we knowthere's something so powerful
about asking, because kids don'twant to do the things that we
tell them to do, you know, andif they're doing the thing that
we ask them to do, like you know, if you could tell my son,
harrison, you know, please putthe dishes away.
(30:53):
And he's like I'm already doingit, it's ruined.
Putting the dishes away for him, you know, it's like once
they're already doing it, itdoesn't, it doesn't feel as good
.
So, asking them what do youthink you should do?
And then, if they'reuncomfortable, allowing it.
You know, hey, this isuncomfortable, this is normal.
This is a hard thing.
You're in a new place,surrounded by new people and you
don't know a lot of, oh, youdon't have a lot of friends.
(31:13):
It could be this way.
Normal is the gettingcomfortable with the
uncomfortable.
Then it's the people, places andI know that people and places
sounds very matter of fact, butthere's some nuance to this.
It's who are the people who arepaid to help, who are the
people we can ask to help andwho are the people who volunteer
(31:35):
to help.
Sometimes there could beoverlap, but I find that if we
can think of in those terms, itbecomes pretty easy.
And then places places arewhere we sweat, play, pray, live
, learn, lead, love and workSweat, play, pray, live, learn,
lead, love and work.
And for every problem there's aplace.
I've said this before, it's notmy first time.
(31:58):
I'm going to make a rap.
Whenever there's, for everyproblem there's a place where
you can find an answer.
So, as a parent, if we can havea handle on who are the people
who are in my student's corner,where are the places where they
can find support and help?
And then the patient's piece andunderstanding that at least the
(32:18):
first year is a mess.
You know, the first semester,the first quarter ever, it's,
it's a throwaway.
You know it's, it's, it's, it'sgarbage.
And you can't, you can't assessanything based on the first
semester and simply that removesso much pressure.
You know students love hearingthat.
It's like you know this firstsemester doesn't matter, this is
(32:40):
just getting your feet on theground.
So then, if a parent canunderstand this and know it's
going to be okay, then you see,it becomes easier to have this
playbook and to be patient.
And I'll just add one morething.
Parents do not have theirplaces once their kids graduate,
especially if it's the last one.
(33:01):
You know where are their places, right, you know.
And then who are their people?
Who they leaned on, becausethey're not especially parents
with children, who are artistsor are athletes.
You would go to those eventsand those people at those events
became the people in yourcorner.
So for parents, it's reallyimportant to think who are my
(33:23):
people?
My therapist is one of mypeople.
I have a great family but I paythis person because they're
there and my therapist is.
I'll have a therapist till Istopped breathing.
I love my therapist, but whoare your people?
And then, where are your places?
So you can be patient?
Because if you don't havepeople in places, that's when we
(33:44):
tend to panic and that's whypatience is such an important
piece of this.
But it's the hardest piece,because then you try to ask a
student to be patient whenthey're in a new place,
surrounded by new people, havingnew experiences, having all the
transitions thrown at them atwarp speed, but yet they're
(34:04):
supposed to be patient.
But a parent, I think,understands, can be more patient
.
Vicki Nelson (34:11):
I really love that you're bringing this around to,
or including that parents alsoneed to find their people in
their places, that your world isentirely different when
students go, and it seems to methat's something that you know.
If you've had a realconversation with your student
(34:32):
about these three Ps, that youcan compare notes, that you can
check in with each other as thatfirst semester goes along, you
know I found a new person, I'vegot somebody else who are your
people, and it gives you somecommon ground to go through your
own transition together at thattime.
(34:56):
I want to back up a little bit,though, because I have another
question, and that is you talkabout helping students think
about who are their people andwhat are their places.
You know, go to the RA, go tothe orientation leader.
What about parents who don'treally know what to expect?
(35:16):
I'm thinking first generationparents who have not gone to
college, or parents who went tocollege 30 years ago, and the
people on the college campusestoday are in different roles and
different.
How can parents help studentsthink about those people in
places when they don't know whatto expect themselves?
Harlan Cohen (35:40):
Yeah, it's a I mean, it's a great question.
It's really, it's really trickybecause a parent who is so
removed or hasn't been on campus, how are they, how are they
supposed to and how do they feelthat sense of confidence?
And the answer is to beintentional about exploring the
(36:00):
different places and thedifferent people.
So, for example, whether it'san orientation program or a new
student program, something wherethe parent is on campus with
the student, it's really takingnote of who is in that room.
Who are these people, who arethe people if you have a
residential student who arerunning that residence hall
(36:21):
portion, and introducingyourself to those people.
When I was on campus for anevent for my son, I probably
spent about 15 minutes chattingwith the assistant director of
res life, of housing, because itwas really important for me to
know who that person is.
And then there were, there weresome other people who were, who
were part of this, and I thinkit's it's it's really healthy
(36:42):
for parents to take note of whothose individuals are, because
those are the, those are thepeople you're going to be
directing your student to.
When it comes to firstgeneration families, what
resources are available for thestudent and what resources are
available.
For me as a parent you mightnot know.
So a great place to start isthrough the parent group on
social media.
And there are some schools thatdo a better job than others and
(37:05):
I know Elizabeth, you know,looking with kind of a scared
look For example, purdueUniversity, they have someone
from the administration who,before students start, they run
that group and it's a wonderfulgroup and then they step out
after school starts because theydon't want to be involved with
all of the different drama andissues that pop up.
(37:25):
But which parent group is agroup where that can be trusted
and you can ask other parents?
It's great to talk to a familymember or a parent of an alumni
from high school.
So for parents, just, vicki,the idea of where are my places
(37:49):
within this community where mystudent's going to be a
participant, and then how can Idirect my students so that when
an issue comes up I can helpidentify.
You know, for first-genstudents, I do a lot with
college access and I've got somesome students who are part of
some college access programs,who are part of my best first
year coaching and successprogram, and for them it's okay.
(38:13):
At some schools there is anoffice for first-generation
students.
So reach out to that office.
If you had an IEP or 504, Iknow, elizabeth, we talked about
this make sure you have a placewhere you can talk to the
people there who can direct you,because they're experts when it
comes to resources on campusand how to take advantage of the
academic channels and all theother resources that could be
(38:36):
there.
Then there's then themulticultural groups are
fantastic, because a lot oftimes you get a lot of first gen
students.
Especially in schools wheremaybe there isn't as much
diversity, the multiculturalgroups tend to be a great place
to find connection.
And then there's also theadvisor of the first gen.
There's advisor of themulticultural groups.
(38:58):
And then there's the spiritualgroups and organizations.
So, for those who don't know,it's going to the campus website
, it's going to social media,it's I do these programs.
I have a program called 17things you need to do before
college, which is not behind apaywall when I present this live
(39:19):
.
I'm doing another programcalled 15 mistakes parents of
first year college students makeand how to avoid them.
The reason that I'm doing allof this is because it's so hard
to know.
Reason that I'm doing all ofthis is because it's so hard to
know.
It is so hard to know and youneed to know.
And now, because parents areoften first responders and they
don't always know how to respondor the best resource to direct
(39:41):
their student to, they becomepanicked.
So you know I'm in your corner,in addition to those other
resources.
Did that answer the question?
Vicki Nelson (39:51):
Yeah, I think you know doing your research and not
being afraid to ask lots ofquestions and doing things like
reading your books, looking atthe College Parents Central
website, which has 900 articlesand glossaries.
Know, just simply learning theterminology.
(40:12):
You know, can you talk the talkso that when your student comes
home and says this and that anduses all those acronyms and all
of that, you have some idea ofwhat's going on.
Harlan Cohen (40:24):
So yeah, I think a parent could also call the dean
of students office.
You know it's okay to call andwhen a parent does call, it's
really important to call, notasking them to solve a problem,
but asking them who are thepeople my students should talk
to and where are the places theyshould go to find that support.
Because when you approach thosepeople who are the
(40:45):
clearinghouse of information,people who are accessible, even
the orientation office, you cancall them, because any number
you have you could say hey, Ihave a question and I just want
to know who to direct my studentto or who can I talk to so I
can find the best resource.
People tend to be pretty nice.
They're not really great whenparents threaten lawsuits and
are angry.
You know that ends the dialogue.
(41:06):
But a parent who asks how can Iconnect my student so that they
can get the answers they need,those campus officials are
really wonderful to respond.
There's also the question ofFERPA, which some professionals
will say you know I can't giveyou information about your
(41:26):
student because of FERPA, theFederal Education Rights.
Elizabeth Hamblet (41:30):
Privacy Act Family Educational Rights.
Privacy Act.
Harlan Cohen (41:31):
Family, education Rights, privacy Act.
Another acronym yeah, that'sanother wonderful one More
alphabet soup.
And that could be a commonanswer.
But when you approach this froma place of wanting resources to
share that with your student,people tend to not talk about
FERPA, and with FERPA and HIPAAyou can get waivers as well, and
(41:58):
I'll be offering some of thatsoon through a partnership.
Vicki Nelson (41:59):
But yeah, and often the college, because of
FERPA, can't tell you how's mystudent doing, is he going to
class?
They can't share that, but theycan listen.
Going to class they can't sharethat, but they can listen.
And so sometimes if parents areconcerned about something and
they call and they can describewhat their concerns are.
They're not going to get ananswer, but it means that the
(42:20):
person at the college can go andcheck in with that student.
Or also, sometimes, even ifthey won't give you an answer,
they can hear your concerns andthen take it from there.
And so parents you know it'sgood to call and ask these
questions and parents want tohelp advocate for students.
(42:42):
You know, let me call the deanand ask who my student should
talk to, and then I'll call mystudent and tell my student you
should go and talk to thisperson.
And there are times, I think,when that's really you know what
you need to do.
But we used to think of, we usedto talk a lot about the
helicopter parents, right,they're swooping in all the time
(43:03):
and now they're snow plowingand getting stuff out of the way
and doing all of that, and theimage was always that the
students were pushing that away.
But I've seen, you know.
One of the changes I've seen isthe switch where students are
very happy to rely on theparents not always to answer
(43:25):
their question, but I don't knowwho to talk to.
Will you call the dean and findout who I should talk to,
rather than me going to thedean's office and saying any?
You know you mentioned, parentsare first responders.
How do we get students not toturn to parents always as their
first resource?
Harlan Cohen (43:47):
Yeah, I think that's a.
It's a difficult question, andI think it's a it's a long
answer with a long tail.
Yeah, I think that's a.
It's a difficult question, and,and, and I think it's a it's a
long answer with a long tail.
Announcer (43:54):
Sorry, Right no it's just it's.
Harlan Cohen (43:57):
It's something I think first of all, it takes a
parent who doesn't want to bethat person, because I think
most parents are excited tostill play a role.
My kids at college.
They want me to do something.
Wow, I have a purpose.
You know, it's like it's awonderful thing for me.
It's like, you know, my brainlights up.
My kid wants something from mewhen, when he's dealing with
college, I like affirmation, Ilike being helpful.
(44:20):
So there's this part of okay,what is truly being helpful.
And maybe, as a rule for theparent of, I'm going to give my
kid the first, the first chanceto uh, answer for themselves.
So let's give it 24 hours.
And why don't you?
Why don't you find someone thatyou can talk to?
And if you can't find someone,then why don't you talk to your
(44:42):
RA if you're living in aresidential situation, right?
So I'm going to give you this.
Then, after 24 hours, well, youknow how's it going.
Is this still a problem?
If you can't advocate foryourself, then either you're
going to accept what it is andthat's just going to be how
things are, or you can try again, or you can find someone to
(45:04):
help you.
This is where a therapist oranother professional on campus
can be the one to help.
So if your child can't get thehelp, if your child can't
advocate, are they able to do itor can they not do it?
And if they can't do it, ifthey're not capable of doing it,
well then that's where anintervention by a parent can be
(45:26):
necessary and vital.
But there's also this part ofwhy don't we first see if you
could do it?
Then why don't we help you tofind someone who can be in your
corner to help you to be able todo this, so then you can do it.
And if it's an immediatesituation where there's a big
problem and they need that help,well then why don't I call and
you stay on the phone with me,you know?
(45:47):
Why don't you listen in to seehow I'm saying this and who I'm
calling and what I'm doing?
So at least we're doing this asa partnership.
So the next time this happens,the understanding is you can
know how the Dean of Studentsoffice works.
So and this is you know, this isa big issue, vicki and
Elizabeth, where professors havethis issue and students have
(46:08):
this issue and it's do I meet mystudent where they are Is that.
Is that empowering them, is itenabling them, or is it actually
connecting with them and thenhelping them to understand what
they need to do so that they cando it next time.
(46:30):
And this has been the biggestdifference I've seen over the
past 25 years is when we parentor teach from a place of meet me
where I am or I will not meetyou where you are.
You know it's my way, or thehighway, and tough love and
difficult consequences.
I've seen students reallyfalter when that's the approach,
(46:51):
because the majority of thestudents I've interacted if
someone says, meet me where I am, they're just going to flounder
and they're going to stay wherethey are.
But an adult who can give thempermission to be uncomfortable,
who can try to understand whatthey really want, then help them
(47:19):
and walk alongside to get themsomewhere, those are the leaders
, those are the teachers, thoseare the parents that I find to
be the most effective.
Vicki Nelson (47:25):
Yeah, so I mean we could keep talking and talking
and asking questions and gettingall of these wonderful answers,
but would you talk a little bitabout your best first year
program?
Harlan Cohen (47:51):
for this because I've been doing this for over 25
years and I have a reallystrong idea of the questions
that students need to ask beforethey ask them and most of the
time they're asking them whenthere's a problem.
And I know the obstacles thatstudents and parents face before
they face them, because everyyear this is an evergreen type
of cycle and I'm sure we allcould talk and we know, like we
know, what they're going to dealwith.
(48:12):
So I've been doing this for somany years and every year
students struggled with the samechallenges and parents struggle
High schools they can't reallydo enough because it's not what
their job is and they're notequipped to help students with
this transition.
And colleges they're so focusedon getting students through
this process and maybe there's afirst year program there isn't
(48:35):
a resource, so there's this bigproblem that's getting bigger
and bigger and there isn't asolution.
So I wanted to create asolution.
So this has been really aboutsix years in the making because
I've had different iterations ofbest first year, but this year
is the most effective and I'm soexcited because it's a coaching
program.
I've committed to be thereevery week in the fall, every
other week in the spring andsummer and basically I'm there
(48:55):
to check in, to help you, toknow what you should be thinking
about, to guide you to thepeople and places, to answer
your questions live and in themoment, to provide some
community, and to do it everyweek.
It starts in the summer becausethere's a lot that needs to be
done.
The best first year in collegereally starts in the summer and
I'm hopeful and I'm upbeat andit's for students and it's for
(49:18):
parents, and not everyone shouldattend live every week because
it's too much, but what I'mdoing is providing a resource
that's there when you need itand answers that I know work
connecting people to theresources that are going to have
an impact.
So I'm so excited about thisand and you know my my function
(49:39):
is, I want to be in parents'corners and I want to be in
students' corners and I want tohelp them to prepare this change
.
I want them to plan and I wantthem to turn to me and each
other as they start to deal withthe things we know they're
going to encounter and to do itin a really low stress, helpful,
(49:59):
positive way.
So that's what best first yearis.
So it's coaching and then Ihave access to a video success
library, and I've created thesevideos over the years.
And then I've got some workbookexercises that I've crafted as
well, and those things areavailable for people to tap into
whenever they want.
But, most importantly, everyweek I get to say how are you?
(50:20):
What's going on?
Let's fix whatever is making usuncomfortable, and find answers
and, uh, know that this, thisis normal, this is good You're
you're you're living it.
Something's going normal, thisis good, you're living it.
If something's going wrong,something's happening, and if
something's going right, that'sgreat too.
We can celebrate those thingstoo.
So that's what Best First Yearis, and the goal is to do this
(50:43):
at scale.
Eventually, I would love forthis to be the go-to transition
course or program that is justwhen you go to college, you go
through this.
This is going to help you,because I've seen it.
It helps.
I'm pouring my heart and soulinto this, spending an
exorbitant amount of time andenergy, because, more than
(51:05):
anything, I just want to help.
I just want to help.
I'll just add one more thing.
I've been doing this for solong and in the past two, three
years, my social media has justexploded in the best way.
It's just grown, you know, tohave over a million followers on
Instagram and on TikTokcombined.
(51:25):
So there's all these people whoreally like my advice.
So now I get to give themsomething that's a little longer
form, it's a little morethought through, and the
students who parents send theirmessages to they also are.
They could become members,because a membership includes
(51:45):
access for two people.
Vicki Nelson (51:48):
So that's best first year, and so you have
parents and students together.
Harlan Cohen (51:53):
Yes, and the way that I present it is in a
webinar format, so it's not in ameeting format, and I do that
intentionally because somepeople don't want to be known.
And what's cool is you couldhave a student who's at school
and you could have a parentwho's in a different place, and
that student can ask a questionabout the parent and the parent
wouldn't even know becausenobody knows.
(52:14):
So there's this anonymity for alot of parents, there's a ton
of discomfort and shame, thisidea that your child's going
through something.
And I remove a lot of thatbecause, instead of blaming
yourself or looking for someoneor something to blame, blame
transition, blame the universalrejection, truth of going
(52:37):
through change.
Um, so the format of it makesit so people can share and be
supported.
And, uh, for the parent who hasthe kid, who doesn't want to get
help, what's great is theydon't need to get it and they
don't need to go.
I had a parent who said what doI get my kid to go, cause I've
been enjoying this?
And the answer is don't need toget it and they don't need to
go.
I had a parent who said what doI get my kid to go, cause I've
been enjoying this and theanswer is don't uh.
When there's a problem, youcould say, hey, harlan did a,
(52:59):
harlan did a coaching session onthat.
Why don't you check it out?
Because that's when they'regoing to want the information
and know that they need theinformation about prevention and
being uh and being able to givethem a resource when they need
it, when we don't always havethe words or answers.
Elizabeth Hamblet (53:16):
So you were.
You know your social media has,as you said, been exploding and
that's really good because it'sit's accessible.
Students can watch it privately.
But I really think your booksare so important because it is,
you know.
Think your books are soimportant because it is, you
know, the preparation for thischange.
I think you really lay out allthe things that people need to
(53:37):
be thinking about, and so forstudents who found you on
socials, you know how canparents convince them, and
parents, there's a book for youtoo.
I mean, you should read theNaked Roommate, the one intended
for students, but you shouldalso read the one that's just
for you.
But how do we get students toread this book when they say,
well, I can just watch Harlan onsocials?
Harlan Cohen (53:57):
Yeah, that hasn't really been a big issue because
the title of the book is so funit's the Naked Roommate at 170.
Elizabeth Hamblet (54:05):
The cover's great.
Harlan Cohen (54:06):
if you haven't seen it no-transcript, which I'm
(54:32):
actually doing a new parentbook, which I'm really excited.
It's going to be like a wholenew parent book because that
book is outdated but it's stilla great book.
Elizabeth Hamblet (54:40):
It is a great book.
People love it.
Harlan Cohen (54:43):
Absolutely.
Yeah, Some of it.
You know.
The fundamentals of the bookare fantastic.
Just some of the stuff is alittle bit dated, but the bones
are great.
And then there's a book calledWin or Learn the Naked Truth
About Turning Every RejectionInto your Ultimate Success, and
that book is all aboutrisk-taking.
It's like a hundred pages,there are pictures and for
anyone who picks up one of mybooks, if you aren't a great
(55:06):
reader, the books are designedfor you, and if you are a great
reader, they're designed for youbecause my my whole ADHD I've I
have a hard time writing inlong form.
So the way that it's puttogether, students who don't
typically read we'll pick thisup and they'll read a few tips
at a time and they'll be like,wow, then they'll read another
few tips.
So giving them access, notpromoting it too heavily, Um,
(55:30):
and having, uh, someone else, afamily member, give it as a gift
is a great thing to do too,Cause then it's not coming from
you, because no one wants toread anything coming from you.
Elizabeth Hamblet (55:40):
Oh, our friend Jill Grimes, the uh, the
TikTok college docs is thatparents put a $10 bill in parts
of her book that they want theirkids to read.
So there's another.
Harlan Cohen (55:51):
Yeah, that's great .
I'm going to ask Jill to giveme some money.
Jill gives the tens.
Vicki Nelson (55:58):
Well, lots ahead for people to catch up.
If people want to learn moreabout your coaching program or
your books or get in contact,how can they find you?
Harlan Cohen (56:11):
Well, you can find me on social media.
On Instagram it's at HarlanCohn H-A-R-L-A-N-C-O-H-E-N, and
I have a link to link in my biothere.
That has a link to all of mystuff on TikTok.
I'm help me, harlan.
I'm doing a lot on YouTube nowas well.
There's a podcast, a HarlanCohn podcast, and I'm going to
be doing another season of thatand I talked to wonderful
(56:32):
experts so they can find thatand my website, harlancohncom.
So those are all places andreach out to me for parents who
have questions.
If I don't get back to you fastenough, just keep writing to me
.
I get a lot of messages and Ialso do one-on-one coaching,
coaching, and then I have thegroup coaching program.
So I am excited.
I'm grateful to be here.
(56:53):
I know that we're all in thistogether.
We want to fix this problem.
You know, and I get I get evenuncomfortable talking about me
because I'm not the mostimportant person in this room,
in this conversation.
It's the parents, it's thefamilies and as, as I used to
like a lot of attention, and asI've gotten more and more
(57:14):
attention, I care less and lessabout me.
I really don't.
It's not the most importantthing.
I want you parents to have awonderful experience and I want
your students to have the bestpossible experience.
And it's hard, it's very hard,and we need community and we
need to be there for each other.
Vicki Nelson (57:37):
And that is the perfect note on which to end the
conversation.
Harlan Cohen, thank you so muchfor joining us, for Facebook
Live and for the College ParentCentral podcast, and I suspect
you're going to get a littleinflux of interest hopefully
just from this conversation ofhearing the ideas that you've
(58:00):
shared.
So thank you so much and thanks, elizabeth, for co-hosting with
me and we'll see you next time.
Thank you.
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts as they sharesupport and a celebration of the
amazing experience of having achild in college.
Elizabeth Hamblet (00:51):
Welcome everybody to another episode of
College Parents Central.
I'm Elizabeth Hamlet.
I'll be one of your co-hoststoday, and we are delighted to
be joined by Harlan Cohen, theauthor of Naked Roommate and
several other books.
He's the head of a coachingprogram.
I am a huge, huge fan of hisand we're just so pleased that
he's going to be able to be here.
For those who are watching uslive on Facebook, we will not be
(01:13):
taking your questions, but youare welcome to join us for this
conversation.
Watch as we go along and thepodcast will drop.
July 3rdicki yes.
July 3rd, so if you are notalready subscribed to the
College Parents Central podcast,you're obviously not listening
to me, because I tell you allthe time you should.
So be sure to subscribe and itwill come to your phone in your
(01:38):
favorite podcast app then.
So, vicki, you want to get usstarted?
Vicki Nelson (01:43):
Sure, we're going to jump right in, harlan.
Thank you so much for takingtime to talk with us today.
I know you and Elizabeth havechatted before, but it has been
years that I've been wishing wecould get you, so I'm very
excited to have you here, thankyou.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Harlan Cohen (02:04):
I was just saying I'm so grateful to have the
chance to visit with you both,and I'm a big fan, so I'm
excited to be able to share.
Vicki Nelson (02:13):
Good Well, thank you for sharing, because I think
very much of the time collegeparents need all the help they
can get All of the voices,because our messages are often
very similar but we say themdifferently, so it really helps
people to hear different voices.
Elizabeth Hamblet (02:30):
And as I was listing all of Harlan's
accomplishments, I left out hispodcast.
Shame on.
Me, and so make sure yousubscribe to that one too.
Vicki Nelson (02:40):
Yes, because you were just a guest on that one,
so how dare you forget?
But I'm also a subscriber and afan and a listener, and so
y'all need all the informationyou can get, and so reach out to
all the resources, yeah, so Iwant to go back and I know,
harlan, you started as writingan advice column for newspapers
(03:04):
and you were syndicated in doingthat.
And what led you from doingthat to making your life's work
be about writing for collegestudents and helping them?
Harlan Cohen (03:18):
Well, I've always looked at my writing as
reporting on human emotions.
You know I was much moreinterested in people dealing
with relationships and andbreakups and conflict and how to
communicate, like.
To me that was so much moreinteresting than the news, uh,
(03:39):
and it also felt a lot morerelevant.
So it's always been this, thishunger to try and understand how
people communicate and how ouremotions work.
So I got really lucky that thatwas just what drove me and as
an advice columnist and Istarted writing my column after
I had an internship at theTonight Show with Jay Leno years
ago and one of the writerssuggested writing advice because
(04:00):
he wrote an advice column.
So I started doing that and Idid it in my college paper and
first I was just writing my ownquestions and answering myself
in front of everyone and then myfriends started to ask me
questions or I would write abouttheir problems and they didn't
realize I was writing abouttheir problems and really
connected with the columnbecause it was their lives
(04:22):
without them knowing.
Uh, then real people started towrite to me and at first I was
very, very much, uh, you know,flip and short, just kind of a
bit of a smart ass I was tryingto avoid saying smart ass, but I
don't know if there's anotherway to say it.
Um uh, a wise guy, right oh?
Elizabeth Hamblet (04:39):
why they don't think.
Harlan Cohen (04:39):
I'm breaking fingers and stuff.
Um, a wise guy, right, theydon't think I'm breaking fingers
and stuff, but I was always alittle flip and funny.
But then I started to get veryreal because I recognized people
had these real problems and Istarted to reach out to experts
and over the years that justexpanded and college is really a
backdrop to all of the issueswe deal with while we navigate
(05:03):
the transition from being a teento being an independent adult,
and it just happens to takeplace on this college campus
world.
So I became an expert on thatby virtue of trying to help
people to just deal with all thechanges and also trying to make
sense of my own challenges andstruggles that I dealt with
(05:24):
throughout the years, especiallygoing back to my challenges
navigating the transition tolife in college.
Vicki Nelson (05:31):
Well, college students are lucky that you
drifted into that world and youhave been, you say over the
years and I know there have beenquite a few, that you've been
doing this.
I started College ParentCentral in 2009, and you were
already well established, as youknow, one of the gurus of this
(05:53):
world.
So you've been doing it quite awhile and I'm curious whether
you have seen changes over thatamount of time in the students,
in the parents, in theirrelationship.
What's happened over thoseyears?
Harlan Cohen (06:10):
Well, I've seen the changes.
Then, when you look at thestatistics, you know, we know
that there has been an increasein terms of anxiety and
depression and studentsstruggling.
So you've got the students'mental health that's rapidly
declined.
And then you have the scarcity,the fear mentality of
(06:31):
admissions because I do a lot ofwork in admissions as well.
So you have this fear of notbeing able to get something and
you have to work so hard,starting so early into your
academic life.
So there's this buildup andthere's this anticipation, and
then there are these bigexpectations and then you get to
this culmination where you'rein and and you, you, you.
(06:56):
Now you start.
But when you start, whathappens is the expectations.
In reality, there's a biggergap than ever before because
there's so much anticipation,because there's.
So, in reality, there's abigger gap than ever before
because there's so muchanticipation, because there's so
much work, because there's beenso much burnout that I find
it's very hard for students tonavigate this change and it's
(07:18):
very hard for parents tounderstand this change because
the focus has been so much onsearch and selection as opposed
to transition, which is where Ilive and I've been advocating.
We need to talk abouttransition and college success
really begins with our own lifetransitions, and all of those
(07:42):
things have combined into thisstorm that has created an
environment where you have morestudents than ever who are
struggling and more parents whodon't know how to help, because
and we were talking about thisbefore we started recording
right now and I like talkingabout where we are because I
think each month, each week, isso pivotal we're in June, right,
(08:05):
so we just finished graduation.
Everybody's celebrating.
My son just my son graduatedthis June and today he texted us
a picture of him holding hishigh school diploma.
They take that one on the stage.
He's got this great smile andit's so, it's so wonderful.
And now it's shopping, and hewent to orientation and then, in
(08:28):
six weeks, that's when it allstarts.
And, elizabeth and Vicki, Iknow we know this, but most
students are not prepared.
Most parents do not have theinformation they need to help
their students to navigate thischange, and that's why, more so
than ever, I feel more compelledand more driven to find as many
(08:49):
ways as possible to helpstudents and parents to
understand what's coming, sothey can be excited, but they
can also be prepared, and moreof them are not prepared than
ever before.
Elizabeth Hamblet (09:04):
What kinds of things do you observe that sort
of like?
How does that play out forstudents?
Harlan Cohen (09:12):
Well, just before I share that, what do you two
think Like?
Do you think what I'm sharingis accurate?
Do you agree with that?
Vicki Nelson (09:19):
Absolutely, I agree.
Harlan Cohen (09:21):
A thesis on where we are.
Vicki Nelson (09:23):
And not only are students not prepared, parents
are not prepared for their owntransition, that their
relationship has to change ifthey're going to support their
student in the way that theyneed to.
Harlan Cohen (09:39):
Yeah, that's a big thing, and how to prepare for
that and the specific issues.
I think, Elizabeth, you wereasking me what are some of the
specific issues that studentsaren't ready for.
Is that the question?
Announcer (09:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Harlan Cohen (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Well, the way I like to process, cause I have ADHD, which I was
recently diagnosed I alwaysknew I had something going on
and I have these frameworks andI have these frameworks, I have
these ways of looking atuncomfortable or unfamiliar
situations where I can help bemore comfortable with the
(10:13):
unknown, because frameworks andsystems make the unknown less
anxiety provoking, anxietyprovoking.
So when you asked me thatquestion, the way that I process
, it is okay.
There are five big changes thatstudents are going to go
(10:34):
through and parents are alsogoing to go through these
changes and the acronym is SEPFAand it's a ridiculous acronym
and the P probably might createa little static, a little
feedback.
Sepfa it's a ridiculous acronym, but it's social.
Create a little static, alittle feedback.
Sepfa it's a ridiculous acronym, but it's social, emotional,
physical, financial and academic.
So these are the five bigtransitions.
(10:55):
So, when it comes to ourstudents, prepared for the
social transition, well, I wouldsay most of them are not.
They're very worried aboutmaking friends.
Many of them haven't been ableto make friends or haven't had
practice making friends.
Technology can be wonderful,but it can also be very
isolating.
The FOMO, the snap maps, uh,the, the anxiety, the social
(11:16):
anxiety.
I get so many students who arereally anxious and worried.
And then I get parents who areworried that their kids are
going to be the same as theywere in high school.
You know, there's this idea ifyou have a kid who's been a
little shy and reserved and andhas had some social anxiety in
high school, they're going tohave it in college.
Elizabeth Hamblet (11:34):
Yeah, which seems obvious, right, but I
think it's that optimism, right?
Yeah, it's not like.
Harlan Cohen (11:39):
It's not like this restart where the switch gets
flipped, but then they'll ask me, cause I do parent coaching too
.
It's not like this restartwhere the switch gets flipped,
but then they'll ask me becauseI do parent coaching too, and
they'll ask me you know, whatcan you do to help my child to
be better equipped and tonavigate this change?
And the biggest piece is tojust allow them to be, to give
(12:01):
them room, to just be presentwithout worrying, and we'll get
to the patience piece later.
But the social part takes time.
So then there's living with aroommate If they live on campus.
There's communicating.
There's communicating withprofessors, with your teachers.
(12:21):
One of the biggest challengesthat I have seen is the ability
to advocate.
And right and I know you'reboth shaking your heads it's
students really struggle, evenstudents who come from the most
regarded prestigious highschools and independent schools.
(12:43):
High schools and independentschools this idea of advocating
for yourself and knowing how toadvocate and advocating is very
much a social skill as well asacademic, and it's in every
aspect of our life.
Elizabeth Hamblet (12:57):
And it's a learned skill too, and it's one
that parents can teach.
And so you know, as somebodywhose focus is on helping
students with disabilities makea successful transition, you
know self-advocacy is somethingwe talk about all the time,
because once they're at collegethey are considered adults.
They're the ones who have toregister for accommodations and
(13:18):
do all of that stuff.
But you know there areopportunities leading up to
college for parents to teachtheir students how to do this
stuff.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Iwas going to say so.
You know, one of the things thatI like so much about your work
and you know it's really comingthrough to me lately I don't
(13:39):
know if it's just the videosthat happen to come up in my
feed is this, this notion ofbeing comfortable with the
uncomfortable.
So I think you know you justmentioned that we're in it.
We're in June, it's a time ofcelebration.
The kids have made it throughhigh school and everybody's
having a great time and thinkingabout what you know what, what
comfort they're going to buy forthe dorm, and it hasn't perhaps
(14:02):
yet set in that this is a wholenew place, a new environment.
Maybe your student doesn't knowanybody where they're going,
and I think you know, postpandemic too, I think parents
have had a lot of really qualitytime, maybe not always quality,
but a lot of time around theirstudents and they have, you know
, advocated for them becausethey're right in the room and
(14:25):
you know there there's thembecause they're right in the
room and you know there's justbeen so much time to be there
and to be available to theirstudents and now they're going
to go someplace where, in theory, there should be some
separation.
So you know and it's a wisecolleague said to me years ago,
transition to college doesn'tjust happen to the student, it
happens to the parents.
(14:46):
And so you know what is thisgetting comfortable with the
uncomfortable mean, and why isthat so central to the message
that at least I see comingthrough?
Harlan Cohen (14:57):
Yeah, well, I'm glad it comes through, because I
think this idea thatuncomfortable is part of change,
it's a normal, natural part oflife and transition and
embracing discomfort issomething we don't practice a
lot of.
So this idea of givingourselves permission to be
uncomfortable, with thisunderstanding that life change
can be difficult, really enablesus to not fight this natural
(15:20):
change but to walk alongside it.
I think that's where thesolution comes in, where, before
, you're asking, when it comesto all these changes, how can we
work through that?
You know how, how can a parenthelp, how can a student help?
And and the framework of ofreally wanting something what do
I want?
Everybody having something theywant and giving themselves
(15:42):
permission to be uncomfortable.
If they want friends, whatmakes them uncomfortable about
not finding friends?
Or what makes themuncomfortable about putting
themselves in places where theycan find friends?
And how can they start thinkingabout that early and how can
they start advocating forthemselves or practicing with an
understanding of how to tapinto those resources that are
(16:02):
available on a campus?
So and I want to give solutionsbecause I don't want to just be
someone who stirs the pot andcreates problems it's really
what do I want?
What makes me uncomfortable,and then people places patients.
That's the simple framework.
So, yeah, and it works so wellof what do I want?
Because, as a parent, there'scertain things we want, but we
(16:23):
also want to support our studentto even ask that question, and
I think most students don't askthat question because they're so
focused on being wanted.
They don't really think aboutwhat's going to happen the first
six weeks, what's going tohappen the first 12 weeks.
So let's start with what do youwant?
Even a conversation of of, ofwhere do you think you'll you'll
find friends other than justexisting and being in class and
(16:45):
being where you live or spendingtime where you live, and then
what makes you uncomfortableabout that?
And then, when we'reuncomfortable, when we can
identify things that make usuncomfortable, then it becomes
much easier to find the peoplein the places who are there to
support us.
So the example of a studentwho's taking classes, who's
(17:07):
registering for classes, whodoesn't know what classes to
take or is nervous about thisWell, who are some of the people
in the places on the campusyou're going to who could help
you?
Well, the answer is it's summer.
I don't know anyone, right, butthere's the orientation leaders
.
There are RAs who you can seethrough social media.
There's the orientation leaders.
There are RAs who you can seethrough social media.
There's the admissions officeyou can reach out to.
(17:30):
There's your academic advisor.
There are friends who possiblyhave gone to this school.
There might be a Reddit groupon social media.
There also could be some aDiscord server.
There are places where thereare people who have gone through
these experiences who can helpyou and support you.
(17:50):
But it starts with you and itstarts with us, as parents,
giving our kids permission toanswer the question what do you
want?
As opposed to telling them whatthey need to do or what they
should want.
So, so that's just a simpletool of like practicing of like
hey, what do you want?
And this is what I do when I dothe.
I do a lot of one-on-onecoaching and I do group coaching
(18:11):
and right now we're actuallystarting every other week for
the next 10 weeks or eight weeks, we're going through the five
areas of transition.
Where I'm where, each week, wetalk about one of the elements
of transition, one of thosepieces the social and then we
break down you got to wantsomething.
Okay, what are you a littleworried about?
(18:32):
The student who's anxious?
The student who doesn't have ahistory of being so social?
Okay, well, you want to meetpeople.
So how do you meet people?
What's one thing you can do?
Well, why don't you first putyourself in the places where you
are welcome and included,simply because you exist, where
you show up, and I love this,you know you show up and people
(18:55):
say welcome, and this is where,if a student needs
accommodations, the office thatworks with students is great,
because the people there arewonderful.
And you could also ask thosepeople.
Okay, who are some of thestudents who I should reach out
to?
Or what types of groups arethey in?
Are there activities?
Are there organizations?
When I'm directing students,it's multicultural groups, it's
(19:18):
first generation programs, it'svolunteer groups, it's these
large organizations where you'rewelcome and included.
So if you're athletic, how canyou do that?
So the things you did in highschool?
So if I want friends and I'muncomfortable that I'm not going
to make them, then what's myplan other than I'm going to
talk to people in my hall andtalk to them in class, or try to
(19:40):
get into a fraternity orsorority where I have no control
over access and I have to winpeople over, or I have to do
something in order to getsomething.
So I'm a fan of how do youcreate a world where the
dynamics are set up for you soyou can go after what you want.
And I know that gettingcomfortable with the
(20:03):
uncomfortable, my, my, myanswers are long, but but they
all connect because the gettingcomfortable with the
uncomfortable is I'm afraid I'mgoing to be judged, I don't know
people.
Um, I'm worried about rejection.
And and if you also follow me,I'm obsessed with rejection,
because at the root ofdiscomfort is this fear that
(20:24):
either I'm going to disappointmyself or someone's going to
judge me in an unfavorable way.
And when I can get comfortablewith this universal rejection
truth, this law of nature it'sanother one of those things I
created to make myself feelbetter, because people with ADHD
are oftentimes will have moreof a sensitivity to rejection.
So, teasing that out over theyears.
(20:46):
This law of nature, thisuniversal rejection truth, this
thing that should be on theperiodic table of elements, this
URT, it's an undeniable truth.
And as we go through life, thereare things we can control and
things we can't control, and theuniversal rejection truth is
always at play.
And when I don't get theoutcome I desire, instead of
internalizing it and thinkingI'm the problem recognizing
(21:07):
there can be lots of elements atplay.
So I don't have to get caughtin the shame cycle when I get
uncomfortable.
And for parents and supporters,we have ways we describe this.
You know you miss every shotyou don't take and other
metaphors.
But really what it is is theuniversal rejection truth, this
idea that there's somethingbigger than us and, instead of
(21:29):
feeling shame when we miss theshots, feeling like we're
present and we're doing thingsthe right way, because change is
uncomfortable and that's partof the process.
So that's how we can getcomfortable with the
uncomfortable as we go after thethings we want to support
ourselves during this reallyuncertain time of change.
(21:49):
I hope I brought it togethernicely.
Vicki Nelson (21:51):
Yeah, and it occurs to me that it's one thing
to be comfortable with your ownuncomfortable, and it's hard
for parents when they see theirstudent being uncomfortable.
For me to be comfortable withyour discomfort is very
(22:12):
different than being with my own, and parents, you know thinking
about how they can fit intothis that you described so well
of what students need to have aplan and all is is to help
students strategize those things, even even sometimes
role-playing.
You know how are you going tostart up a conversation with a
(22:36):
student in the dining hall?
Or if you reach out to that RA,what are you going to say?
That that these the simple, sothat Seemingly simple social
steps aren't always easy, forthe interpersonal relationships
are difficult for students thesedays.
Harlan Cohen (22:58):
When you were saying that I just want to jump
in, I was thinking of my son andthe idea that I'm, you know,
the idea of a parent roleplaying with their kid.
Like that's tough sometimes,you know, because it's like.
It's like and this is, I think,so important if they don't want
to play, if they don't want torole play, if they don't want to
think about these things, thenthat's okay.
(23:19):
And I, and I think that thispart of, for me at least, having
a son who's going through thisnow, you know, I'm I really I'm
committed to the fact that thisfirst year is going to be really
unpredictable.
There's going to be a lot ofwonderful things that are going
to happen, but there's alsogoing to be a lot of unexpected
(23:39):
things that are going to happen.
In order for me to be the bestsupport partner, I need to be an
observer, because I'm not thedirector.
To be an observer because I'mnot the director, and when
something happens, I need to askwhat my role could be.
(24:01):
You know, can't, can I help you?
Would you like some help?
Then then it becomes thiswillingness and this is what I
do when I, when I speak, I askthe students, I say, um, some of
you are going to really enjoythis and some of you are not in
a place where you're going towant to hear this, and wherever
you are, that's okay.
You know, I just happen to behere today and it might be a day
where you're welcome and opento this, and it might be a day
(24:22):
where you just don't want tohear me at all, which is totally
okay because I understand that,but I want you to know I'm here
when you need me, understandthat.
But I want you to know I'm herewhen you need me and if you want
to listen you're welcome to.
And I think that approach of Iknow, you know, uh, although I
kind of know more, but I'm notgoing to tell you that every day
, um, but I'm going to be opento that.
(24:43):
So then it's that parent who'slike you know, my kid shuts me
down because you know they arenervous and I'll just throw one
more thing in If your kid willnot engage with you.
This is where I think, and thisis the emotional transition
plan, that every student and I'mvery careful when I use
absolutes I think every studentneeds someone other than a
(25:05):
family member who is qualified,who has a history helping and
supporting students.
I think therapists arewonderful resources, but they
need to have someone other thanthe parent who they can talk to
as they work through thesechanges, because a parent is
just too emotional.
There's too much judgment andoftentimes too much
(25:26):
vulnerability.
Vicki Nelson (25:28):
Yeah, so I really I think these three P's are a
great way to for students tothink about what they need to do
.
I'm a little more curious aboutthe third P, because you've
talked about the people and theplaces and those are sort of
active things that you can workon.
(25:49):
You know, I'm going to go andtalk to this person or I'm going
to find my place.
Talk a little bit about this.
The third P of patience and howyou hurry up and wait.
Right, how do they do?
Harlan Cohen (26:04):
that.
Yeah, nikki, you have seen thisover the years.
You've seen children go throughthis, family members go through
this, and I think the patiencepiece is the hardest part.
Right, would you agree withthat?
Definitely, because thepatience piece.
As a parent, we have to watchour kids sit in it.
(26:27):
You know we have to watch themget upset.
We have to watch them hopefullyrecover.
You know we've got to watchthem advocate in the wrong ways
and then advocate in the rightways.
It's so hard.
So I have this again systems andways of framing the unknown
(26:51):
that, no matter what,everything's going to be okay,
like I truly am a believer andthis is the story that I tell my
family.
And the other day I think I wasa little more doom and gloom and
my and my, my kids called meout on it.
My wife called me out.
But this idea that everythingis going to be okay, it's going
to be okay, and if we know it'sgoing to be okay, as parents
(27:14):
truly know it's going to be okaymy kid fails.
What's going to happen?
Well, they're going to figureout how to not fail or they're
going to find a different paththat's going to align with who
they are and their interests,because I know they're
exceptional and they're going tolive an amazing life and if
they struggle, they're going to.
They're going to have peoplewho can help them.
(27:34):
I'll help them to find otherpeople so they could figure it
out, so they can end up taking astep in the direction that's
going to help them to find theirlight.
It will be okay.
Elizabeth Hamblet (27:47):
You know, I think, what's hard and you you
know Vicki you as a professorand Harlan is somebody who's
been interacting with collegestudents all over all these
years that patience thing.
It used to be that if you had abad interaction with a
professor or you got kicked out,you know you went to a party
and you didn't have a good time,like you'd have to wait till
(28:07):
the next day or later to callyour parents Right, the next day
or later to call your parentsRight.
So it forced patience onstudents and maybe forced a
little bit more emotionalresilience at that time because
you just couldn't get to them.
I mean, I called home on Sundaysbecause this long distance from
the phone booth down the hall Ihad a phone in our room when I
(28:28):
was in school, but you did tryto save your parents money, so I
mean both of you, I guess.
Do you think that that cellphone and that immediate you
know connection is alsosomething that's really getting
in the way of that patience?
Because, as Harlan said, it isvery hard to know your kid is
struggling and parents only wantthe best for their kids and
(28:51):
that temptation to just respondand fix and do things is one
that's hard.
Um, you know, um, so you knowanything, harlan?
You, you think about that andyou notice changes over the
years that you've been doingthis.
Harlan Cohen (29:06):
Yeah, well, you brought that up, because I think
sometimes I'm if I'm listeningto me, cause I'm always thinking
of of the listener I have these, this idea of it's going to be
okay.
Like how does that really helpme though?
Like how does that help meright now when my kid is crying
or there's a crisis and thereare other answers to it.
So, foundationally, it's goingto be okay.
(29:27):
But then you have to assess ina situation, is it an emergency?
Is this an emergency or is thisuncomfortable?
And for your student it mightbe an emergency because they're
dealing with something on top ofsomething else and they just
don't have the emotionaltolerance to deal with anything
more, but it's probably justsomething uncomfortable.
(29:49):
And that's where the 24-hourrule and a student and a parent
can talk about this and say, hey, let.
That's where the 24-hour ruleand a student and a parent can
talk about this and say, hey,let's live by the 24-hour rule.
When there's something very bigthat happens, because
information moves so quickly,let's just have a rule that when
it's really big and it's not anemergency, we'll give it 24
hours, right.
So we set the expectations andthen, when something big happens
(30:11):
, whether it's a grade or asocial situation that's
upsetting.
Okay, let's just see how itfeels tomorrow, if we can.
So building that in, because wehaven't had to build that in in
the past because there was thisnatural cycle, but technology
has really disrupted that.
And then, after that 24 hours,asking the question what do you
(30:32):
think you should do, which Ithink is a huge question, as
opposed to here's what we'regoing to do next.
Right, and even if we knowthere's something so powerful
about asking, because kids don'twant to do the things that we
tell them to do, you know, andif they're doing the thing that
we ask them to do, like you know, if you could tell my son,
harrison, you know, please putthe dishes away.
(30:53):
And he's like I'm already doingit, it's ruined.
Putting the dishes away for him, you know, it's like once
they're already doing it, itdoesn't, it doesn't feel as good
.
So, asking them what do youthink you should do?
And then, if they'reuncomfortable, allowing it.
You know, hey, this isuncomfortable, this is normal.
This is a hard thing.
You're in a new place,surrounded by new people and you
don't know a lot of, oh, youdon't have a lot of friends.
(31:13):
It could be this way.
Normal is the gettingcomfortable with the
uncomfortable.
Then it's the people, places andI know that people and places
sounds very matter of fact, butthere's some nuance to this.
It's who are the people who arepaid to help, who are the
people we can ask to help andwho are the people who volunteer
(31:35):
to help.
Sometimes there could beoverlap, but I find that if we
can think of in those terms, itbecomes pretty easy.
And then places places arewhere we sweat, play, pray, live
, learn, lead, love and workSweat, play, pray, live, learn,
lead, love and work.
And for every problem there's aplace.
I've said this before, it's notmy first time.
(31:58):
I'm going to make a rap.
Whenever there's, for everyproblem there's a place where
you can find an answer.
So, as a parent, if we can havea handle on who are the people
who are in my student's corner,where are the places where they
can find support and help?
And then the patient's piece andunderstanding that at least the
(32:18):
first year is a mess.
You know, the first semester,the first quarter ever, it's,
it's a throwaway.
You know it's, it's, it's, it'sgarbage.
And you can't, you can't assessanything based on the first
semester and simply that removesso much pressure.
You know students love hearingthat.
It's like you know this firstsemester doesn't matter, this is
(32:40):
just getting your feet on theground.
So then, if a parent canunderstand this and know it's
going to be okay, then you see,it becomes easier to have this
playbook and to be patient.
And I'll just add one morething.
Parents do not have theirplaces once their kids graduate,
especially if it's the last one.
(33:01):
You know where are their places, right, you know.
And then who are their people?
Who they leaned on, becausethey're not especially parents
with children, who are artistsor are athletes.
You would go to those eventsand those people at those events
became the people in yourcorner.
So for parents, it's reallyimportant to think who are my
(33:23):
people?
My therapist is one of mypeople.
I have a great family but I paythis person because they're
there and my therapist is.
I'll have a therapist till Istopped breathing.
I love my therapist, but whoare your people?
And then, where are your places?
So you can be patient?
Because if you don't havepeople in places, that's when we
(33:44):
tend to panic and that's whypatience is such an important
piece of this.
But it's the hardest piece,because then you try to ask a
student to be patient whenthey're in a new place,
surrounded by new people, havingnew experiences, having all the
transitions thrown at them atwarp speed, but yet they're
(34:04):
supposed to be patient.
But a parent, I think,understands, can be more patient
.
Vicki Nelson (34:11):
I really love that you're bringing this around to,
or including that parents alsoneed to find their people in
their places, that your world isentirely different when
students go, and it seems to methat's something that you know.
If you've had a realconversation with your student
(34:32):
about these three Ps, that youcan compare notes, that you can
check in with each other as thatfirst semester goes along, you
know I found a new person, I'vegot somebody else who are your
people, and it gives you somecommon ground to go through your
own transition together at thattime.
(34:56):
I want to back up a little bit,though, because I have another
question, and that is you talkabout helping students think
about who are their people andwhat are their places.
You know, go to the RA, go tothe orientation leader.
What about parents who don'treally know what to expect?
(35:16):
I'm thinking first generationparents who have not gone to
college, or parents who went tocollege 30 years ago, and the
people on the college campusestoday are in different roles and
different.
How can parents help studentsthink about those people in
places when they don't know whatto expect themselves?
Harlan Cohen (35:40):
Yeah, it's a I mean, it's a great question.
It's really, it's really trickybecause a parent who is so
removed or hasn't been on campus, how are they, how are they
supposed to and how do they feelthat sense of confidence?
And the answer is to beintentional about exploring the
(36:00):
different places and thedifferent people.
So, for example, whether it'san orientation program or a new
student program, something wherethe parent is on campus with
the student, it's really takingnote of who is in that room.
Who are these people, who arethe people if you have a
residential student who arerunning that residence hall
(36:21):
portion, and introducingyourself to those people.
When I was on campus for anevent for my son, I probably
spent about 15 minutes chattingwith the assistant director of
res life, of housing, because itwas really important for me to
know who that person is.
And then there were, there weresome other people who were, who
were part of this, and I thinkit's it's it's really healthy
(36:42):
for parents to take note of whothose individuals are, because
those are the, those are thepeople you're going to be
directing your student to.
When it comes to firstgeneration families, what
resources are available for thestudent and what resources are
available.
For me as a parent you mightnot know.
So a great place to start isthrough the parent group on
social media.
And there are some schools thatdo a better job than others and
(37:05):
I know Elizabeth, you know,looking with kind of a scared
look For example, purdueUniversity, they have someone
from the administration who,before students start, they run
that group and it's a wonderfulgroup and then they step out
after school starts because theydon't want to be involved with
all of the different drama andissues that pop up.
(37:25):
But which parent group is agroup where that can be trusted
and you can ask other parents?
It's great to talk to a familymember or a parent of an alumni
from high school.
So for parents, just, vicki,the idea of where are my places
(37:49):
within this community where mystudent's going to be a
participant, and then how can Idirect my students so that when
an issue comes up I can helpidentify.
You know, for first-genstudents, I do a lot with
college access and I've got somesome students who are part of
some college access programs,who are part of my best first
year coaching and successprogram, and for them it's okay.
(38:13):
At some schools there is anoffice for first-generation
students.
So reach out to that office.
If you had an IEP or 504, Iknow, elizabeth, we talked about
this make sure you have a placewhere you can talk to the
people there who can direct you,because they're experts when it
comes to resources on campusand how to take advantage of the
academic channels and all theother resources that could be
(38:36):
there.
Then there's then themulticultural groups are
fantastic, because a lot oftimes you get a lot of first gen
students.
Especially in schools wheremaybe there isn't as much
diversity, the multiculturalgroups tend to be a great place
to find connection.
And then there's also theadvisor of the first gen.
There's advisor of themulticultural groups.
(38:58):
And then there's the spiritualgroups and organizations.
So, for those who don't know,it's going to the campus website
, it's going to social media,it's I do these programs.
I have a program called 17things you need to do before
college, which is not behind apaywall when I present this live
(39:19):
.
I'm doing another programcalled 15 mistakes parents of
first year college students makeand how to avoid them.
The reason that I'm doing allof this is because it's so hard
to know.
Reason that I'm doing all ofthis is because it's so hard to
know.
It is so hard to know and youneed to know.
And now, because parents areoften first responders and they
don't always know how to respondor the best resource to direct
(39:41):
their student to, they becomepanicked.
So you know I'm in your corner,in addition to those other
resources.
Did that answer the question?
Vicki Nelson (39:51):
Yeah, I think you know doing your research and not
being afraid to ask lots ofquestions and doing things like
reading your books, looking atthe College Parents Central
website, which has 900 articlesand glossaries.
Know, just simply learning theterminology.
(40:12):
You know, can you talk the talkso that when your student comes
home and says this and that anduses all those acronyms and all
of that, you have some idea ofwhat's going on.
Harlan Cohen (40:24):
So yeah, I think a parent could also call the dean
of students office.
You know it's okay to call andwhen a parent does call, it's
really important to call, notasking them to solve a problem,
but asking them who are thepeople my students should talk
to and where are the places theyshould go to find that support.
Because when you approach thosepeople who are the
(40:45):
clearinghouse of information,people who are accessible, even
the orientation office, you cancall them, because any number
you have you could say hey, Ihave a question and I just want
to know who to direct my studentto or who can I talk to so I
can find the best resource.
People tend to be pretty nice.
They're not really great whenparents threaten lawsuits and
are angry.
You know that ends the dialogue.
(41:06):
But a parent who asks how can Iconnect my student so that they
can get the answers they need,those campus officials are
really wonderful to respond.
There's also the question ofFERPA, which some professionals
will say you know I can't giveyou information about your
(41:26):
student because of FERPA, theFederal Education Rights.
Elizabeth Hamblet (41:30):
Privacy Act Family Educational Rights.
Privacy Act.
Harlan Cohen (41:31):
Family, education Rights, privacy Act.
Another acronym yeah, that'sanother wonderful one More
alphabet soup.
And that could be a commonanswer.
But when you approach this froma place of wanting resources to
share that with your student,people tend to not talk about
FERPA, and with FERPA and HIPAAyou can get waivers as well, and
(41:58):
I'll be offering some of thatsoon through a partnership.
Vicki Nelson (41:59):
But yeah, and often the college, because of
FERPA, can't tell you how's mystudent doing, is he going to
class?
They can't share that, but theycan listen.
Going to class they can't sharethat, but they can listen.
And so sometimes if parents areconcerned about something and
they call and they can describewhat their concerns are.
They're not going to get ananswer, but it means that the
(42:20):
person at the college can go andcheck in with that student.
Or also, sometimes, even ifthey won't give you an answer,
they can hear your concerns andthen take it from there.
And so parents you know it'sgood to call and ask these
questions and parents want tohelp advocate for students.
(42:42):
You know, let me call the deanand ask who my student should
talk to, and then I'll call mystudent and tell my student you
should go and talk to thisperson.
And there are times, I think,when that's really you know what
you need to do.
But we used to think of, we usedto talk a lot about the
helicopter parents, right,they're swooping in all the time
(43:03):
and now they're snow plowingand getting stuff out of the way
and doing all of that, and theimage was always that the
students were pushing that away.
But I've seen, you know.
One of the changes I've seen isthe switch where students are
very happy to rely on theparents not always to answer
(43:25):
their question, but I don't knowwho to talk to.
Will you call the dean and findout who I should talk to,
rather than me going to thedean's office and saying any?
You know you mentioned, parentsare first responders.
How do we get students not toturn to parents always as their
first resource?
Harlan Cohen (43:47):
Yeah, I think that's a.
It's a difficult question, andI think it's a it's a long
answer with a long tail.
Yeah, I think that's a.
It's a difficult question, and,and, and I think it's a it's a
long answer with a long tail.
Announcer (43:54):
Sorry, Right no it's just it's.
Harlan Cohen (43:57):
It's something I think first of all, it takes a
parent who doesn't want to bethat person, because I think
most parents are excited tostill play a role.
My kids at college.
They want me to do something.
Wow, I have a purpose.
You know, it's like it's awonderful thing for me.
It's like, you know, my brainlights up.
My kid wants something from mewhen, when he's dealing with
college, I like affirmation, Ilike being helpful.
(44:20):
So there's this part of okay,what is truly being helpful.
And maybe, as a rule for theparent of, I'm going to give my
kid the first, the first chanceto uh, answer for themselves.
So let's give it 24 hours.
And why don't you?
Why don't you find someone thatyou can talk to?
And if you can't find someone,then why don't you talk to your
(44:42):
RA if you're living in aresidential situation, right?
So I'm going to give you this.
Then, after 24 hours, well, youknow how's it going.
Is this still a problem?
If you can't advocate foryourself, then either you're
going to accept what it is andthat's just going to be how
things are, or you can try again, or you can find someone to
(45:04):
help you.
This is where a therapist oranother professional on campus
can be the one to help.
So if your child can't get thehelp, if your child can't
advocate, are they able to do itor can they not do it?
And if they can't do it, ifthey're not capable of doing it,
well then that's where anintervention by a parent can be
(45:26):
necessary and vital.
But there's also this part ofwhy don't we first see if you
could do it?
Then why don't we help you tofind someone who can be in your
corner to help you to be able todo this, so then you can do it.
And if it's an immediatesituation where there's a big
problem and they need that help,well then why don't I call and
you stay on the phone with me,you know?
(45:47):
Why don't you listen in to seehow I'm saying this and who I'm
calling and what I'm doing?
So at least we're doing this asa partnership.
So the next time this happens,the understanding is you can
know how the Dean of Studentsoffice works.
So and this is you know, this isa big issue, vicki and
Elizabeth, where professors havethis issue and students have
(46:08):
this issue and it's do I meet mystudent where they are Is that.
Is that empowering them, is itenabling them, or is it actually
connecting with them and thenhelping them to understand what
they need to do so that they cando it next time.
(46:30):
And this has been the biggestdifference I've seen over the
past 25 years is when we parentor teach from a place of meet me
where I am or I will not meetyou where you are.
You know it's my way, or thehighway, and tough love and
difficult consequences.
I've seen students reallyfalter when that's the approach,
(46:51):
because the majority of thestudents I've interacted if
someone says, meet me where I am, they're just going to flounder
and they're going to stay wherethey are.
But an adult who can give thempermission to be uncomfortable,
who can try to understand whatthey really want, then help them
(47:19):
and walk alongside to get themsomewhere, those are the leaders
, those are the teachers, thoseare the parents that I find to
be the most effective.
Vicki Nelson (47:25):
Yeah, so I mean we could keep talking and talking
and asking questions and gettingall of these wonderful answers,
but would you talk a little bitabout your best first year
program?
Harlan Cohen (47:51):
for this because I've been doing this for over 25
years and I have a reallystrong idea of the questions
that students need to ask beforethey ask them and most of the
time they're asking them whenthere's a problem.
And I know the obstacles thatstudents and parents face before
they face them, because everyyear this is an evergreen type
of cycle and I'm sure we allcould talk and we know, like we
know, what they're going to dealwith.
(48:12):
So I've been doing this for somany years and every year
students struggled with the samechallenges and parents struggle
High schools they can't reallydo enough because it's not what
their job is and they're notequipped to help students with
this transition.
And colleges they're so focusedon getting students through
this process and maybe there's afirst year program there isn't
(48:35):
a resource, so there's this bigproblem that's getting bigger
and bigger and there isn't asolution.
So I wanted to create asolution.
So this has been really aboutsix years in the making because
I've had different iterations ofbest first year, but this year
is the most effective and I'm soexcited because it's a coaching
program.
I've committed to be thereevery week in the fall, every
other week in the spring andsummer and basically I'm there
(48:55):
to check in, to help you, toknow what you should be thinking
about, to guide you to thepeople and places, to answer
your questions live and in themoment, to provide some
community, and to do it everyweek.
It starts in the summer becausethere's a lot that needs to be
done.
The best first year in collegereally starts in the summer and
I'm hopeful and I'm upbeat andit's for students and it's for
(49:18):
parents, and not everyone shouldattend live every week because
it's too much, but what I'mdoing is providing a resource
that's there when you need itand answers that I know work
connecting people to theresources that are going to have
an impact.
So I'm so excited about thisand and you know my my function
(49:39):
is, I want to be in parents'corners and I want to be in
students' corners and I want tohelp them to prepare this change
.
I want them to plan and I wantthem to turn to me and each
other as they start to deal withthe things we know they're
going to encounter and to do itin a really low stress, helpful,
(49:59):
positive way.
So that's what best first yearis.
So it's coaching and then Ihave access to a video success
library, and I've created thesevideos over the years.
And then I've got some workbookexercises that I've crafted as
well, and those things areavailable for people to tap into
whenever they want.
But, most importantly, everyweek I get to say how are you?
(50:20):
What's going on?
Let's fix whatever is making usuncomfortable, and find answers
and, uh, know that this, thisis normal, this is good You're
you're you're living it.
Something's going normal, thisis good, you're living it.
If something's going wrong,something's happening, and if
something's going right, that'sgreat too.
We can celebrate those thingstoo.
So that's what Best First Yearis, and the goal is to do this
(50:43):
at scale.
Eventually, I would love forthis to be the go-to transition
course or program that is justwhen you go to college, you go
through this.
This is going to help you,because I've seen it.
It helps.
I'm pouring my heart and soulinto this, spending an
exorbitant amount of time andenergy, because, more than
(51:05):
anything, I just want to help.
I just want to help.
I'll just add one more thing.
I've been doing this for solong and in the past two, three
years, my social media has justexploded in the best way.
It's just grown, you know, tohave over a million followers on
Instagram and on TikTokcombined.
(51:25):
So there's all these people whoreally like my advice.
So now I get to give themsomething that's a little longer
form, it's a little morethought through, and the
students who parents send theirmessages to they also are.
They could become members,because a membership includes
(51:45):
access for two people.
Vicki Nelson (51:48):
So that's best first year, and so you have
parents and students together.
Harlan Cohen (51:53):
Yes, and the way that I present it is in a
webinar format, so it's not in ameeting format, and I do that
intentionally because somepeople don't want to be known.
And what's cool is you couldhave a student who's at school
and you could have a parentwho's in a different place, and
that student can ask a questionabout the parent and the parent
wouldn't even know becausenobody knows.
(52:14):
So there's this anonymity for alot of parents, there's a ton
of discomfort and shame, thisidea that your child's going
through something.
And I remove a lot of thatbecause, instead of blaming
yourself or looking for someoneor something to blame, blame
transition, blame the universalrejection, truth of going
(52:37):
through change.
Um, so the format of it makesit so people can share and be
supported.
And, uh, for the parent who hasthe kid, who doesn't want to get
help, what's great is theydon't need to get it and they
don't need to go.
I had a parent who said what doI get my kid to go, cause I've
been enjoying this?
And the answer is don't need toget it and they don't need to
go.
I had a parent who said what doI get my kid to go, cause I've
been enjoying this and theanswer is don't uh.
When there's a problem, youcould say, hey, harlan did a,
(52:59):
harlan did a coaching session onthat.
Why don't you check it out?
Because that's when they'regoing to want the information
and know that they need theinformation about prevention and
being uh and being able to givethem a resource when they need
it, when we don't always havethe words or answers.
Elizabeth Hamblet (53:16):
So you were.
You know your social media has,as you said, been exploding and
that's really good because it'sit's accessible.
Students can watch it privately.
But I really think your booksare so important because it is,
you know.
Think your books are soimportant because it is, you
know, the preparation for thischange.
I think you really lay out allthe things that people need to
(53:37):
be thinking about, and so forstudents who found you on
socials, you know how canparents convince them, and
parents, there's a book for youtoo.
I mean, you should read theNaked Roommate, the one intended
for students, but you shouldalso read the one that's just
for you.
But how do we get students toread this book when they say,
well, I can just watch Harlan onsocials?
Harlan Cohen (53:57):
Yeah, that hasn't really been a big issue because
the title of the book is so funit's the Naked Roommate at 170.
Elizabeth Hamblet (54:05):
The cover's great.
Harlan Cohen (54:06):
if you haven't seen it no-transcript, which I'm
(54:32):
actually doing a new parentbook, which I'm really excited.
It's going to be like a wholenew parent book because that
book is outdated but it's stilla great book.
Elizabeth Hamblet (54:40):
It is a great book.
People love it.
Harlan Cohen (54:43):
Absolutely.
Yeah, Some of it.
You know.
The fundamentals of the bookare fantastic.
Just some of the stuff is alittle bit dated, but the bones
are great.
And then there's a book calledWin or Learn the Naked Truth
About Turning Every RejectionInto your Ultimate Success, and
that book is all aboutrisk-taking.
It's like a hundred pages,there are pictures and for
anyone who picks up one of mybooks, if you aren't a great
(55:06):
reader, the books are designedfor you, and if you are a great
reader, they're designed for youbecause my my whole ADHD I've I
have a hard time writing inlong form.
So the way that it's puttogether, students who don't
typically read we'll pick thisup and they'll read a few tips
at a time and they'll be like,wow, then they'll read another
few tips.
So giving them access, notpromoting it too heavily, Um,
(55:30):
and having, uh, someone else, afamily member, give it as a gift
is a great thing to do too,Cause then it's not coming from
you, because no one wants toread anything coming from you.
Elizabeth Hamblet (55:40):
Oh, our friend Jill Grimes, the uh, the
TikTok college docs is thatparents put a $10 bill in parts
of her book that they want theirkids to read.
So there's another.
Harlan Cohen (55:51):
Yeah, that's great .
I'm going to ask Jill to giveme some money.
Jill gives the tens.
Vicki Nelson (55:58):
Well, lots ahead for people to catch up.
If people want to learn moreabout your coaching program or
your books or get in contact,how can they find you?
Harlan Cohen (56:11):
Well, you can find me on social media.
On Instagram it's at HarlanCohn H-A-R-L-A-N-C-O-H-E-N, and
I have a link to link in my biothere.
That has a link to all of mystuff on TikTok.
I'm help me, harlan.
I'm doing a lot on YouTube nowas well.
There's a podcast, a HarlanCohn podcast, and I'm going to
be doing another season of thatand I talked to wonderful
(56:32):
experts so they can find thatand my website, harlancohncom.
So those are all places andreach out to me for parents who
have questions.
If I don't get back to you fastenough, just keep writing to me
.
I get a lot of messages and Ialso do one-on-one coaching,
coaching, and then I have thegroup coaching program.
So I am excited.
I'm grateful to be here.
(56:53):
I know that we're all in thistogether.
We want to fix this problem.
You know, and I get I get evenuncomfortable talking about me
because I'm not the mostimportant person in this room,
in this conversation.
It's the parents, it's thefamilies and as, as I used to
like a lot of attention, and asI've gotten more and more
(57:14):
attention, I care less and lessabout me.
I really don't.
It's not the most importantthing.
I want you parents to have awonderful experience and I want
your students to have the bestpossible experience.
And it's hard, it's very hard,and we need community and we
need to be there for each other.
Vicki Nelson (57:37):
And that is the perfect note on which to end the
conversation.
Harlan Cohen, thank you so muchfor joining us, for Facebook
Live and for the College ParentCentral podcast, and I suspect
you're going to get a littleinflux of interest hopefully
just from this conversation ofhearing the ideas that you've
(58:00):
shared.
So thank you so much and thanks, elizabeth, for co-hosting with
me and we'll see you next time.
Thank you.
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