July 17, 2024 • 35 mins
Preparing for and transitioning into the first year of college involves so many, many details, and it’s easy to get caught up in just getting through what needs to be done. Then the college experience can be taken over by the day-to-day details of classes, assignments, GPA, activities, friends, schedules, career planning and just surviving. While we all know it’s good advice to live in the moment, sometimes it can also help to take a breath, zoom out a bit, and look at the bigger picture. In this episode, Lynn and Vicki suggest why it’s important for your student (and you) to take some time to take a look backward, to look more widely at those experiences available now, and to look forward to the future. Changes of perspective can be illuminating for all of us (And yes, that includes parents!).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:10):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts, vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration ofthe amazing child in college.
Vicki Nelson (00:47):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
We're here again to talk aboutall sorts of things that have to
do with your student who is incollege, who's about to go to
college, and what it's like as aparent, becoming a college
parent, how best to support yourstudent Just about you name
(01:08):
anything that has to do withbeing the parent of a college
student, and we have somethingto say about it.
My name is Vicki Nelson and Iam one of the co-hosts of this
podcast, and I am here with mycolleague.
Lynn Abrahams (01:30):
I am here with my colleague.
I am Lynn Abrahams.
I am here both as a parent ofkids who have gone to college,
gone in, through and around andout.
Also, I'm here because I am alearning disability specialist.
I have worked with collegestudents for my whole career.
Vicki Nelson (01:45):
Yes, it is you.
And I should have introducedmyself a little more as well and
said that, uh, I am also boththe parent of, uh, three
daughters you have the boys, Ihave the girls.
Uh, my daughters are all out ofcollege.
Um, we've all survived it, andI am also a professor at a small
(02:07):
liberal arts college.
So I see and work with studentsevery day and I learn a lot by
just watching and listening tomy students.
So we have an interesting topicthat we thought we would chat a
little bit about today andwe're calling it Zo out on the
(02:28):
college experience.
Zoom not having to do with Zoomon the computer that we've all
learned to do in the last fewyears so much, but more like you
do with the camera, when youzoom out or you know, I use it
all the time on maps on thecomputer and I want the bigger
(02:49):
picture I zoom out and I get abroader picture of just my
street and I can look that wayand really thinking about that
when we take a step back, whenwe zoom out, we give ourself a
little distance.
We can take the long view ofthis college experience that our
(03:11):
students are having and thatwe're having, and that it helps
to keep things in perspective alittle bit.
So we want to talk a little bitabout that long view and that
is when we look backward andwhen we look forward and then in
the present when we look alittle more widely.
(03:32):
So it's zooming out in terms oflength and also breadth of
these experiences Sort of makessense a little bit.
I think of makes sense a littlebit.
I think it helps us not justlive in the moment quite as much
but to think about where we arenow in terms of the bigger
(03:53):
picture.
And this is really for parentsto think about and also for
parents to be able to perhapstalk to your student, help your
student think about how they cantake the broader look, the
broader view of things.
You know, we all get so caughtup so much of the time in the
small details.
(04:13):
Sometimes I feel like I amdefinitely living in the weeds.
You know, I'm overwhelmed byeverything that's happening to
me right now and I lose sight ofthat bigger picture, everything
that's happening to me rightnow and I lose sight of that
bigger picture.
So we like to encourage peopleto think about that, because
when you zoom out you do getmore of the whole story.
(04:34):
It gives you more focus on thebigger picture and it also takes
the focus off you a little bit.
You become a little smaller andI think sometimes our students
need that reminder that they'reone of many in thinking about
(04:55):
that.
So keeping in mind that thecollege experience, the time we
spend in college, is really justa next step.
We've come from somewhere andwe're heading somewhere and we
want to think a little bit aboutthat.
Lynn Abrahams (05:14):
You know, it occurs to me that just our role
as parents.
It's so easy to get stuck inthe minutia with our kids.
It's so easy and if you're aworrier, like I am I happen to
be a bit of a worrier it's easyto just get stuck there and it
(05:38):
feels so good to step back.
I guess I'm also thinking aboutsummer and how we're in summer
right now and it's a great timeto step back and see the whole
picture and sort of, you know,detach a little bit from the
craziness so that you can thinkabout it, so that you can see
(06:00):
some of the patterns, so you cansee some of the you know, the
repeating things, that theopportunities, the bigger
picture it's very, it's a reallyhelpful thing.
Vicki Nelson (06:13):
And you know, it's one of the reasons I like
vacation, because it takes me.
Well.
There are lots of reasons thatI like vacation, but it takes me
out of my everyday routine.
It takes me out of my everydayroutine.
It takes me out of the now somuch and I get to step back a
little bit.
(06:33):
So let's start by thinking whatdo we mean by looking backward?
We're so focused on the future,we're focused on moving forward
.
We want to be motivated to moveforward.
That's all good but, excuse me,sometimes we have to.
It benefits to think backward.
So for parents, but also parentsto talk to students about think
(06:57):
back a little bit to yourchildhood.
Think about where you've comefrom.
What were the dreams that youhad?
You know, when you were five,you wanted to be, you know, a
fireman and a ballerina and apolice officer all at once.
But those wonderful dreams thatyou have when you're younger
(07:19):
that sometimes, as we work onthe practical present, we lose
those a little bit.
So what did you dream about?
How did you feel?
Looking back and then alsothinking about successes and
challenges I know that thatmatters.
Lynn Abrahams (07:37):
Well, you know I spend a lot of time talking with
my students about their past.
In the way that you know, I'mlooking for where the light
bulbs went off, where, when Italk to students, their eyes
light up.
You know I ask often about whenthey felt really good at school
(08:00):
or out of school and it mightbe experiences like camp
experiences or, you know,experiences with their family.
All of these things contributeto who my students are and it's
kind of fun to look at.
(08:21):
You know where they did well,was it a sports?
You know situation, was it art?
Was it math?
You know.
You just don't know where kidsare going to light up.
And at the same time it's goodto look at some of the
challenges that some of mystudents have gone through.
(08:42):
Many of my students don'trealize that going through some
of their difficulties in schoolhas better prepared them for
their college experiences,because they had to bump into
walls, they had to figure outother ways to do things, Whereas
(09:02):
you know some students who justdo well all the way through
aren't sort of forced to problemsolve that way.
They aren't forced to thinkabout new ways of doing things.
So I think, looking at some ofyour challenges in the past can
help you figure out who you areand where you want to go.
Vicki Nelson (09:23):
Yeah, and how you went about facing those
challenges?
Yes, because I agree, some ofthe students that I have who
have just coasted through not inthe terms of lazy coast through
, but it's just been relativelyeasy for them.
When they hit up against a wallwhich often does happen in
(09:45):
college of something new thatthey have great difficulty
understanding or doing, theycrumble a little bit more
because they haven't built upthose muscles of facing that.
So really thinking back tothose things is really helpful.
(10:05):
You know, the other thing thatI think sometimes students
forget about is how it felt whenthey were younger, when it was
really exciting to learn newthings.
You know, I watch my now mygrandchildren, who are young and
(10:28):
who get so excited when theyaccomplish something or they
want to know more about this.
They get excited about theopportunity to take on something
new.
And, you know, as we get older,it's not just students.
I think.
All of us sometimes get alittle jaded about that
excitement of learning andapproaching it.
(10:51):
And, as you're saying, lynn,what are those things that
excited you?
As you're saying, lynn, whatare those things that excited
you?
The other thing sometimes bythe time students get to college
, they think of all of theseextracurricular things as just
(11:12):
extra.
You know, it really doesn'tmatter.
I had to do extracurriculars inhigh school because it had to
look good on my resume for mycollege application.
But now that I'm in college, Idon't have to do any of that
anymore.
And to really think what firesyou up and can you find a way to
keep doing that?
Lynn Abrahams (11:26):
You know, I'm thinking about a student that I
had recently who figured outthat he could actually do
something in college that he didas a child that he was so
excited about.
So he had this incredibletalent for creating like well,
he was artistic, he could createlike video games and he did
(11:49):
video game voices.
Vicki Nelson (11:52):
And when he ever figured out that he could
actually study this in collegeand it was like, oh my God, I
can have fun and learn andthat's the field he went into
video game creation and itconnects to by looking back a
little bit to what did I love asa kid and how do I bring that
(12:14):
forward, and you know, the otherthing in terms of looking back
is I think it helps students tothink a little bit about who are
the people that mattered.
I mean, hopefully, hopefully,certainly your parents, but
beyond that, who are the peoplethat supported you and who are
the people that were your rolemodels?
Who are the people you lookedup to?
(12:36):
Who are the people that wereyour role models?
Who are the people you lookedup to?
Who are the people that gaveyou opportunities?
And thinking about thosequalities, why was this person
your role model?
How did this person help youand how can you carry that
forward?
What lessons did you learn fromthose people?
So, yeah, what were thechallenges, successes, who were
(13:00):
the people?
What were the activities?
Helping students take a littlebit of time to reflect on what's
brought them to where they are.
I think you know is going tohelp them.
And then we get to the present,and that was fast, and we get
to the them.
And then we get to the present,and that was fast, and we get
(13:21):
to the present.
And here it's really a case oflooking more widely, that
zooming out broadens the pictureand you get more of a bird's
eye view, you know, sort oflooking down.
And I think one of the thingsthat happens when you do that is
you realize that the presentmaybe all four years of college
(13:42):
even are really only one smallpiece of your timeline.
And so, whether it goes well orit doesn't go well, or maybe it
says to you I better takeadvantage of this because it's
only one small piece of mytimeline, but it does begin to
put that in perspective a littlebit more.
Lynn Abrahams (14:03):
And I think that's the key.
Putting in perspective.
I think that if we haveconversations with our students
about this, it helps to see thatwhat's happening this moment is
a speck, really.
I mean, I know I've been withstudents who might fail a test,
for example, and just feel likethe earth has fallen apart.
(14:26):
You know the sky has fallen inand yet it is one test of many,
many, many tests.
And will it really matter?
You know, in five years I'vehad that conversations with
students about, you know, notgetting a.
You know a really good grade ina course and you know, is this
(14:48):
really going to matter whenyou're, when you've graduated
from college and you're applyingfor jobs?
Well, maybe not, you know.
Yeah.
Vicki Nelson (14:56):
I've never had a job interview where they said
well, tell me about that testthat you failed in, you know, or
I you know?
You failed this one course inyour freshman year.
I don't think, and you know,even if you think, even if
they're very logical people andmathematically inclined, which I
am not, and you'd go by thenumbers, in most colleges
(15:21):
students need to complete about120 credits to graduate and most
courses in college are threecredits, maybe four.
So when they look at thatfailure, that looks so huge.
Right now I've failed mystatistics course.
It's three credits out of 120.
(15:43):
And so, again, if you look atthat bigger picture of 120, I'm
not saying go out and fail acourse because you know what is
it, it's only three credits.
No, you want to do well, butagain, the perspective and
keeping it in perspective.
Lynn Abrahams (16:01):
I think it's also important to keep something in
perspective when it may not bean academic thing, but it might
be an issue with a roommate oran issue with a friend or an
issue you know with a friend andyou know we often talk about
(16:22):
the 24-hour rule, which is whensomething really intense happens
.
Take some time to stop beforeyou react and sometimes in 24
hours it can, you know, fixitself.
But you know, the idea is tostop and to pause before you
react can give a lot ofperspective and sometimes our
(16:45):
students need to learn that.
Actually, sometimes we need tolearn that as well.
We need to learn it too.
Absolutely yes, yes.
Vicki Nelson (16:51):
So when the student calls with their crisis
and you say let's sit on it andlet's talk tomorrow and that
might help.
You know, lynn, I know you andI both heard about the 24-hour
rule many years ago from HarlanCohen, who wrote the Naked
(17:14):
Roommate.
We can link to that in the shownotes and we just did an
interview with Harlan not verylong ago.
Announcer (17:26):
So if parents are intrigued by this or have heard
of Harlan Cohen and want to hearmore.
Vicki Nelson (17:28):
Just a couple episodes back I can't remember
the number right now, but checkit out and it's a great
conversation with Harlan Cohen.
But it's such good advice, youknow, when whatever seems to be
happening at the moment, justsay let's give it 24 hours and
see how we feel about it then.
And that's not always easy todo, especially when you're a
(17:52):
parent and it's your childthat's in crisis.
Lynn Abrahams (17:55):
And especially if you're a worrier.
Vicki Nelson (17:59):
Yeah, like we are.
Lynn Abrahams (18:00):
Yes, it's hard, it's hard to do it, but it's so
useful yeah.
Vicki Nelson (18:05):
And you know it's related to that.
But I think another thing, asstudents are thinking about
taking that broader view andthinking around the now in a
broader perspective, is for themalso to think about who is
their circle of support.
Who are the people in thisbroader now that can support
(18:31):
them?
And it's related to the 24-hourrule, I think, in a little bit,
because, as parents, when mystudent calls with whatever the
crisis of the day is, I mightwant to say, well, you have
people there that can help youwith this.
It's nice as a parent to knowthat my student maybe has a
(18:53):
circle of support, but thatcircle of the student may have
to work a little bit to createthat circle of support.
I know on our website, on theCollege Parent Central website,
we have an article aboutstudents having an advisory
board and this is sort of like aboard of directors and it's not
(19:14):
that the students are going tocall a meeting and they're all
going to sit around a big tablewith the board of directors, but
for students to put together,you know, maybe make a list of
five or six or seven people whoare their go-to people, who are
their advisors, advisory board,different kinds of people,
(19:39):
multi-generational, you know,maybe some older, wiser people
and some friends, maybe a familymember, maybe a relative, a
neighbor, a mentor, a coach, aprofessor, an old high school
teacher, but people that theycan turn to for support when
they need it.
And so thinking about in thepresent, thinking broadly, who
(20:02):
is that circle of people that Iknow that I can count on, and I
think that's helpful too.
Lynn Abrahams (20:10):
I think also, when you're looking at the
bigger picture of now, it isgood to think about the variety
of experiences our students aregoing through, you know, in the
college environment I mean,there are so many, it's not just
in classroom experiences, youknow.
(20:31):
We we, you know suggest thatour students do internships or
that they go study abroad orthey volunteer or become part of
a group you know of like-mindedstudents and become part of a
(20:52):
group of non-like-mindedstudents.
Vicki Nelson (20:55):
One of the things that college provides for
students is so much diversity ofkinds of people, and if they
only ever seek out and spendtime with people who are just
like them, they're missing suchan opportunity to broaden their
experience and to find peoplewho are different but find out
(21:17):
what they have in common as well.
Absolutely so.
This zooming out, then, is notjust about taking the long view,
looking forward, lookingbackward, but also the broader
view of the world in terms ofplaces and experiences and all
(21:38):
that's going on right now.
So we've looked back and we'velooked at the broader, the wider
view of the present, and what'sleft is in that long view is
looking forward a little bit,and sometimes it's interesting
as I talk to my students.
(21:58):
Sometimes it's short-termlooking forward and then
longer-term looking forward, butit's looking past that, that
amount of things that's dumpingon me right now in the present,
and sometimes students feeloverwhelmed with all of that.
I've got to do this, I've gotto do this, I've got to do this.
(22:20):
But taking the long view couldbe as simple as have I planned
out my week?
Do I use a study planner toplan what I'm going to do for
the next month, to take myassignments and say I will do
this on Tuesday, I will do thison Wednesday, I have this test
on Thursday.
(22:41):
That's taking a longer view forsome students than they ever do,
Because they so often eachnight they look at what do I
have to do for tomorrow, I'vegot this class tomorrow, what do
I have to do?
And then they discover, oh,what I have to do for tomorrow
(23:02):
is read this chapter and write atwo-page summary.
And now it's 10 o'clock atnight.
So they've been living so muchin the present that they haven't
taken that slightly longer view.
So that's a longer view thathelps.
And then sometimes it's thelonger view of I have to plan
for my classes in the spring.
(23:26):
Maybe I want to look long-termat the requirements that I need
to meet.
This class is a prerequisitefor that class.
So I have to take this classnext semester so that next year
(23:47):
I can take this other class.
So that's a little longer viewand that's sort of planning
ahead.
And then there's even sometimesplanning ahead okay, it's
January or February, this is thetime I should be looking for my
summer internship, or this isthe time I should be looking for
(24:09):
my summer job.
And then, of course, you lookinto the further future.
What kind of job do I want?
What's my career going to be?
What kind of internship shouldI take for that job?
Lynn Abrahams (24:23):
And looking that way, you know, it occurs to me,
vicki, that you know, when youlook at a bigger picture, it
makes it easier to make some ofthe decisions that need to be
made as well.
I think that sometimes, parentsand students, we all get stuck
(24:44):
in terms of thinking.
It has to go a certaindirection, a certain way, from
one next to the next to the next.
For example, a student may lookat the future and say I don't
know what I want to major in.
I think I'd like to take asemester and do a part-time job.
(25:08):
You know doing something tofigure that out.
In other words, it doesn't haveto be so linear and if you're
looking at the big picture, it'seasier to be a little more
flexible and know that it's allgoing towards that goal of
figuring out, having ourstudents figure out who they are
(25:29):
, how they want to give to theworld and you know the world and
who they want to be in thisworld.
Vicki Nelson (25:37):
And that who they want to be is so important and
sometimes gets buried in the job.
What's your major going to be?
What career goal do you have?
What internship are you goingto get to get that career job?
And I'm constantly reminding mystudents that their job is
(26:02):
going to be important and theywant to be in a career that they
like, but hopefully they'regoing to have some balance in
their life and their job may be.
I don't know if anybody works 40hours anymore, but 40 hours, or
it might be 30 hours, or itmight be 60 hours a week that
you're going to work on your job, but there are 168 hours in the
(26:25):
week.
Who are you going to be in someof the rest of those hours?
What's going to matter to youand what do you want to do with
your life beyond just your job?
And we put so much emphasis nowon students going to college
and choosing the right college,choosing the right major,
(26:46):
choosing the right internship,getting the right job.
But who are you also and that'swhere some of those
extracurriculars and things thatwe were talking about earlier
matter that you maintain some ofthose interests in things
beyond just the academic thingsthat you have to.
Lynn Abrahams (27:08):
So things like a gap year or a gap semester, that
can be really important, andyou know when you talk about
like who you are, those valuesdeep inside can often propel
students into multiple careers.
You know, it's not just onething.
I think a lot of students aremore flexible than we were when
(27:34):
we were that age.
In a way, you know where theycan change their ideas of what
they want to do a little biteasier than we did.
Vicki Nelson (27:48):
I know I used to think, you know, it was one job
and one career, and then youwould retire and get the gold
watch and you'd be done Right.
Lynn Abrahams (27:58):
Right, and most people I know are not doing the
work that they trained for intheir undergraduate degrees, so
there's a lot of room for changeand that can be exciting.
There's a lot of you know hopeof good jobs and you know new
(28:20):
things.
Vicki Nelson (28:23):
And they don't know where the path is going to
lead.
It winds around, sometimeswinds back around itself and
then moves forward.
So I think the one last thingwe wanted to talk about is a
little bit.
You know we've been talkingabout students and we talk about
that because we think parentshaving the conversation with
(28:46):
students can help students thinkabout these concepts and these
ideas.
Students think about theseconcepts and these ideas, but
also to think about that zoomingout and that longer view for
parents themselves, becausethey're going through
transitions, just as theirstudents are.
(29:06):
When the students go and thingsare changing, and while it's
important to help the studentslook backwards and look forwards
and look wide in the middle,it's also important for us to do
it as parents, especially asour students head off to college
(29:27):
and we look back a little bitat.
You know, I was not the parentwhen my kids went away to
college.
That I was 10 years before that, when they were eight years old
.
I learned a lot.
I was not the person, I was notthe parent.
I was earlier.
(29:48):
But it helps to look back andsay you know, what did I teach
my child?
That they're going to carryforward One of the things we
worry so much about for many ofus when our kids go to college
(30:09):
is, you know, will they know howto behave?
Will they know right from wrong?
And when I stop and think aboutwhat are the values that I
raised them with, that Iinstilled in them, that reminds
me that they're going to carrythose values.
At least some of them they'regoing to carry forward.
(30:31):
At least some of them they'regoing to carry forward.
And I think it helps me when Ilook back to who was I as a
parent, who am I now as a parent, also as a person.
And then what's going to happennext?
I said to you, lynn, before westarted recording, I was typing
(30:55):
up a few notes to think aboutthings we wanted to talk about,
and one of the things I you know, as we look forward for parents
, I wanted to talk a little bitabout the empty nest, because
you know what's it going to belike for us when we have this
empty nest.
And I did a typo, which I thinkI do fairly often, and instead
of writing nest N-E-S-T, I typednext N-E-X-T, and then I kind
(31:18):
of liked that we're talkingabout the empty next, but for
parents to think about what'snext for me?
As I, it's sometimes it's alittle heart wrenching as I send
my student away to college.
But what's next for me is alsolooking forward, and it takes a
(31:40):
little of the pressure off thenow, I think, as we worry about
admissions and we worry aboutGPAs and we worry about our
student choosing their major,not only do we want to remind
them to keep it in perspective,it helps us remember that too.
Lynn Abrahams (31:56):
I think that's really healthy for parents to do
that, to look at that, thatit's.
It's good to remember that notonly are we changing and move
you know we're in a process butyou know our kids are really
growing and sometimes, sometimeswe don't realize that.
(32:21):
You know it's not like they goaway to college and they're done
.
You know their brains aregrowing and growing and growing
and into their 20s and evenearly 30s, our kids are really
changing and we know this now interms of studying the brain,
(32:41):
and it's a relief, in a way,that they're moving along and
changing and that they're goingto be a different person,
different people when theygraduate than when they started.
And so it's a process for all ofus.
Vicki Nelson (32:55):
Yeah, I certainly see that in the students that I
teach because I teach a lot ofthem in their first year and
then, especially those that arein our major that I continue to
have contact with, especiallythose that are in our major that
I continue to have contact withI see them when they're
graduating and walking acrossthat stage and oh my goodness,
what's happened in those fouryears.
(33:15):
And so I think it helps forparents to remember too that the
student who walks across thestage at graduation is going to
be very different from thestudent that they drop off on
move-in day.
Lynn Abrahams (33:30):
That's why we love graduation day so much.
We all cry.
I know, we do, we do.
Vicki Nelson (33:36):
It's wonderful to see so.
There's hope and it's excitingto watch the process.
It's important to know that theprocess is going to happen and
to keep everything inperspective, to zoom out a
little bit, pull the camera backat the wider view of where
(33:56):
students have come from, wherewe have come from, what's going
on in the wider view of todayand then to you know, we can
only look so far in the future,we don't know what's out there.
But to know that some of thethings that happen now will
(34:17):
impact what happens in thefuture, lots to think about.
Lynn Abrahams (34:21):
Lots to think about Vicki.
Vicki Nelson (34:23):
Yeah, Hopefully lots to think about for parents
as well.
Hope this gave you a littlefood for thought, some ideas to
think about and talk to yourstudent about and see what goes
from there.
Harlan Cohen, that's a greatone.
(34:45):
You don't want to miss that.
And you had a book, Lynn.
Just real quickly you had abook you wanted to talk about
when we were talking aboutkeeping those failures in
perspective and all.
Lynn Abrahams (34:58):
I keep coming back to this book.
It's by a guy named Mark Katzand the name of the book is
Children who Fail at School butSucceed in Life.
And I love this book becauseit's a positive look at some of
(35:27):
the kids who have struggled inschool and how amazing they've
been doing in the world and it'ssort of looking back in the
world.
And it's sort of looking backand it's it's just, it's a very
positive look at you know someof the struggles our kids go
through Right, so we'll listlist that in the show notes too.
Vicki Nelson (35:38):
Great, so thanks for being with us.
We hope it was helpful and wehope that you will join us again
another time.
Thanks, bye-bye, that you willjoin us again another time,
thanks.
Lynn Abrahams (35:51):
Bye-bye.
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts, vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration ofthe amazing child in college.
Vicki Nelson (00:47):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
We're here again to talk aboutall sorts of things that have to
do with your student who is incollege, who's about to go to
college, and what it's like as aparent, becoming a college
parent, how best to support yourstudent Just about you name
(01:08):
anything that has to do withbeing the parent of a college
student, and we have somethingto say about it.
My name is Vicki Nelson and Iam one of the co-hosts of this
podcast, and I am here with mycolleague.
Lynn Abrahams (01:30):
I am here with my colleague.
I am Lynn Abrahams.
I am here both as a parent ofkids who have gone to college,
gone in, through and around andout.
Also, I'm here because I am alearning disability specialist.
I have worked with collegestudents for my whole career.
Vicki Nelson (01:45):
Yes, it is you.
And I should have introducedmyself a little more as well and
said that, uh, I am also boththe parent of, uh, three
daughters you have the boys, Ihave the girls.
Uh, my daughters are all out ofcollege.
Um, we've all survived it, andI am also a professor at a small
(02:07):
liberal arts college.
So I see and work with studentsevery day and I learn a lot by
just watching and listening tomy students.
So we have an interesting topicthat we thought we would chat a
little bit about today andwe're calling it Zo out on the
(02:28):
college experience.
Zoom not having to do with Zoomon the computer that we've all
learned to do in the last fewyears so much, but more like you
do with the camera, when youzoom out or you know, I use it
all the time on maps on thecomputer and I want the bigger
(02:49):
picture I zoom out and I get abroader picture of just my
street and I can look that wayand really thinking about that
when we take a step back, whenwe zoom out, we give ourself a
little distance.
We can take the long view ofthis college experience that our
(03:11):
students are having and thatwe're having, and that it helps
to keep things in perspective alittle bit.
So we want to talk a little bitabout that long view and that
is when we look backward andwhen we look forward and then in
the present when we look alittle more widely.
(03:32):
So it's zooming out in terms oflength and also breadth of
these experiences Sort of makessense a little bit.
I think of makes sense a littlebit.
I think it helps us not justlive in the moment quite as much
but to think about where we arenow in terms of the bigger
(03:53):
picture.
And this is really for parentsto think about and also for
parents to be able to perhapstalk to your student, help your
student think about how they cantake the broader look, the
broader view of things.
You know, we all get so caughtup so much of the time in the
small details.
(04:13):
Sometimes I feel like I amdefinitely living in the weeds.
You know, I'm overwhelmed byeverything that's happening to
me right now and I lose sight ofthat bigger picture, everything
that's happening to me rightnow and I lose sight of that
bigger picture.
So we like to encourage peopleto think about that, because
when you zoom out you do getmore of the whole story.
(04:34):
It gives you more focus on thebigger picture and it also takes
the focus off you a little bit.
You become a little smaller andI think sometimes our students
need that reminder that they'reone of many in thinking about
(04:55):
that.
So keeping in mind that thecollege experience, the time we
spend in college, is really justa next step.
We've come from somewhere andwe're heading somewhere and we
want to think a little bit aboutthat.
Lynn Abrahams (05:14):
You know, it occurs to me that just our role
as parents.
It's so easy to get stuck inthe minutia with our kids.
It's so easy and if you're aworrier, like I am I happen to
be a bit of a worrier it's easyto just get stuck there and it
(05:38):
feels so good to step back.
I guess I'm also thinking aboutsummer and how we're in summer
right now and it's a great timeto step back and see the whole
picture and sort of, you know,detach a little bit from the
craziness so that you can thinkabout it, so that you can see
(06:00):
some of the patterns, so you cansee some of the you know, the
repeating things, that theopportunities, the bigger
picture it's very, it's a reallyhelpful thing.
Vicki Nelson (06:13):
And you know, it's one of the reasons I like
vacation, because it takes me.
Well.
There are lots of reasons thatI like vacation, but it takes me
out of my everyday routine.
It takes me out of my everydayroutine.
It takes me out of the now somuch and I get to step back a
little bit.
(06:33):
So let's start by thinking whatdo we mean by looking backward?
We're so focused on the future,we're focused on moving forward
.
We want to be motivated to moveforward.
That's all good but, excuse me,sometimes we have to.
It benefits to think backward.
So for parents, but also parentsto talk to students about think
(06:57):
back a little bit to yourchildhood.
Think about where you've comefrom.
What were the dreams that youhad?
You know, when you were five,you wanted to be, you know, a
fireman and a ballerina and apolice officer all at once.
But those wonderful dreams thatyou have when you're younger
(07:19):
that sometimes, as we work onthe practical present, we lose
those a little bit.
So what did you dream about?
How did you feel?
Looking back and then alsothinking about successes and
challenges I know that thatmatters.
Lynn Abrahams (07:37):
Well, you know I spend a lot of time talking with
my students about their past.
In the way that you know, I'mlooking for where the light
bulbs went off, where, when Italk to students, their eyes
light up.
You know I ask often about whenthey felt really good at school
(08:00):
or out of school and it mightbe experiences like camp
experiences or, you know,experiences with their family.
All of these things contributeto who my students are and it's
kind of fun to look at.
(08:21):
You know where they did well,was it a sports?
You know situation, was it art?
Was it math?
You know.
You just don't know where kidsare going to light up.
And at the same time it's goodto look at some of the
challenges that some of mystudents have gone through.
(08:42):
Many of my students don'trealize that going through some
of their difficulties in schoolhas better prepared them for
their college experiences,because they had to bump into
walls, they had to figure outother ways to do things, Whereas
(09:02):
you know some students who justdo well all the way through
aren't sort of forced to problemsolve that way.
They aren't forced to thinkabout new ways of doing things.
So I think, looking at some ofyour challenges in the past can
help you figure out who you areand where you want to go.
Vicki Nelson (09:23):
Yeah, and how you went about facing those
challenges?
Yes, because I agree, some ofthe students that I have who
have just coasted through not inthe terms of lazy coast through
, but it's just been relativelyeasy for them.
When they hit up against a wallwhich often does happen in
(09:45):
college of something new thatthey have great difficulty
understanding or doing, theycrumble a little bit more
because they haven't built upthose muscles of facing that.
So really thinking back tothose things is really helpful.
(10:05):
You know, the other thing thatI think sometimes students
forget about is how it felt whenthey were younger, when it was
really exciting to learn newthings.
You know, I watch my now mygrandchildren, who are young and
(10:28):
who get so excited when theyaccomplish something or they
want to know more about this.
They get excited about theopportunity to take on something
new.
And, you know, as we get older,it's not just students.
I think.
All of us sometimes get alittle jaded about that
excitement of learning andapproaching it.
(10:51):
And, as you're saying, lynn,what are those things that
excited you?
As you're saying, lynn, whatare those things that excited
you?
The other thing sometimes bythe time students get to college
, they think of all of theseextracurricular things as just
(11:12):
extra.
You know, it really doesn'tmatter.
I had to do extracurriculars inhigh school because it had to
look good on my resume for mycollege application.
But now that I'm in college, Idon't have to do any of that
anymore.
And to really think what firesyou up and can you find a way to
keep doing that?
Lynn Abrahams (11:26):
You know, I'm thinking about a student that I
had recently who figured outthat he could actually do
something in college that he didas a child that he was so
excited about.
So he had this incredibletalent for creating like well,
he was artistic, he could createlike video games and he did
(11:49):
video game voices.
Vicki Nelson (11:52):
And when he ever figured out that he could
actually study this in collegeand it was like, oh my God, I
can have fun and learn andthat's the field he went into
video game creation and itconnects to by looking back a
little bit to what did I love asa kid and how do I bring that
(12:14):
forward, and you know, the otherthing in terms of looking back
is I think it helps students tothink a little bit about who are
the people that mattered.
I mean, hopefully, hopefully,certainly your parents, but
beyond that, who are the peoplethat supported you and who are
the people that were your rolemodels?
Who are the people you lookedup to?
(12:36):
Who are the people that wereyour role models?
Who are the people you lookedup to?
Who are the people that gaveyou opportunities?
And thinking about thosequalities, why was this person
your role model?
How did this person help youand how can you carry that
forward?
What lessons did you learn fromthose people?
So, yeah, what were thechallenges, successes, who were
(13:00):
the people?
What were the activities?
Helping students take a littlebit of time to reflect on what's
brought them to where they are.
I think you know is going tohelp them.
And then we get to the present,and that was fast, and we get
to the them.
And then we get to the present,and that was fast, and we get
(13:21):
to the present.
And here it's really a case oflooking more widely, that
zooming out broadens the pictureand you get more of a bird's
eye view, you know, sort oflooking down.
And I think one of the thingsthat happens when you do that is
you realize that the presentmaybe all four years of college
(13:42):
even are really only one smallpiece of your timeline.
And so, whether it goes well orit doesn't go well, or maybe it
says to you I better takeadvantage of this because it's
only one small piece of mytimeline, but it does begin to
put that in perspective a littlebit more.
Lynn Abrahams (14:03):
And I think that's the key.
Putting in perspective.
I think that if we haveconversations with our students
about this, it helps to see thatwhat's happening this moment is
a speck, really.
I mean, I know I've been withstudents who might fail a test,
for example, and just feel likethe earth has fallen apart.
(14:26):
You know the sky has fallen inand yet it is one test of many,
many, many tests.
And will it really matter?
You know, in five years I'vehad that conversations with
students about, you know, notgetting a.
You know a really good grade ina course and you know, is this
(14:48):
really going to matter whenyou're, when you've graduated
from college and you're applyingfor jobs?
Well, maybe not, you know.
Yeah.
Vicki Nelson (14:56):
I've never had a job interview where they said
well, tell me about that testthat you failed in, you know, or
I you know?
You failed this one course inyour freshman year.
I don't think, and you know,even if you think, even if
they're very logical people andmathematically inclined, which I
am not, and you'd go by thenumbers, in most colleges
(15:21):
students need to complete about120 credits to graduate and most
courses in college are threecredits, maybe four.
So when they look at thatfailure, that looks so huge.
Right now I've failed mystatistics course.
It's three credits out of 120.
(15:43):
And so, again, if you look atthat bigger picture of 120, I'm
not saying go out and fail acourse because you know what is
it, it's only three credits.
No, you want to do well, butagain, the perspective and
keeping it in perspective.
Lynn Abrahams (16:01):
I think it's also important to keep something in
perspective when it may not bean academic thing, but it might
be an issue with a roommate oran issue with a friend or an
issue you know with a friend andyou know we often talk about
(16:22):
the 24-hour rule, which is whensomething really intense happens
.
Take some time to stop beforeyou react and sometimes in 24
hours it can, you know, fixitself.
But you know, the idea is tostop and to pause before you
react can give a lot ofperspective and sometimes our
(16:45):
students need to learn that.
Actually, sometimes we need tolearn that as well.
We need to learn it too.
Absolutely yes, yes.
Vicki Nelson (16:51):
So when the student calls with their crisis
and you say let's sit on it andlet's talk tomorrow and that
might help.
You know, lynn, I know you andI both heard about the 24-hour
rule many years ago from HarlanCohen, who wrote the Naked
(17:14):
Roommate.
We can link to that in the shownotes and we just did an
interview with Harlan not verylong ago.
Announcer (17:26):
So if parents are intrigued by this or have heard
of Harlan Cohen and want to hearmore.
Vicki Nelson (17:28):
Just a couple episodes back I can't remember
the number right now, but checkit out and it's a great
conversation with Harlan Cohen.
But it's such good advice, youknow, when whatever seems to be
happening at the moment, justsay let's give it 24 hours and
see how we feel about it then.
And that's not always easy todo, especially when you're a
(17:52):
parent and it's your childthat's in crisis.
Lynn Abrahams (17:55):
And especially if you're a worrier.
Vicki Nelson (17:59):
Yeah, like we are.
Lynn Abrahams (18:00):
Yes, it's hard, it's hard to do it, but it's so
useful yeah.
Vicki Nelson (18:05):
And you know it's related to that.
But I think another thing, asstudents are thinking about
taking that broader view andthinking around the now in a
broader perspective, is for themalso to think about who is
their circle of support.
Who are the people in thisbroader now that can support
(18:31):
them?
And it's related to the 24-hourrule, I think, in a little bit,
because, as parents, when mystudent calls with whatever the
crisis of the day is, I mightwant to say, well, you have
people there that can help youwith this.
It's nice as a parent to knowthat my student maybe has a
(18:53):
circle of support, but thatcircle of the student may have
to work a little bit to createthat circle of support.
I know on our website, on theCollege Parent Central website,
we have an article aboutstudents having an advisory
board and this is sort of like aboard of directors and it's not
(19:14):
that the students are going tocall a meeting and they're all
going to sit around a big tablewith the board of directors, but
for students to put together,you know, maybe make a list of
five or six or seven people whoare their go-to people, who are
their advisors, advisory board,different kinds of people,
(19:39):
multi-generational, you know,maybe some older, wiser people
and some friends, maybe a familymember, maybe a relative, a
neighbor, a mentor, a coach, aprofessor, an old high school
teacher, but people that theycan turn to for support when
they need it.
And so thinking about in thepresent, thinking broadly, who
(20:02):
is that circle of people that Iknow that I can count on, and I
think that's helpful too.
Lynn Abrahams (20:10):
I think also, when you're looking at the
bigger picture of now, it isgood to think about the variety
of experiences our students aregoing through, you know, in the
college environment I mean,there are so many, it's not just
in classroom experiences, youknow.
(20:31):
We we, you know suggest thatour students do internships or
that they go study abroad orthey volunteer or become part of
a group you know of like-mindedstudents and become part of a
(20:52):
group of non-like-mindedstudents.
Vicki Nelson (20:55):
One of the things that college provides for
students is so much diversity ofkinds of people, and if they
only ever seek out and spendtime with people who are just
like them, they're missing suchan opportunity to broaden their
experience and to find peoplewho are different but find out
(21:17):
what they have in common as well.
Absolutely so.
This zooming out, then, is notjust about taking the long view,
looking forward, lookingbackward, but also the broader
view of the world in terms ofplaces and experiences and all
(21:38):
that's going on right now.
So we've looked back and we'velooked at the broader, the wider
view of the present, and what'sleft is in that long view is
looking forward a little bit,and sometimes it's interesting
as I talk to my students.
(21:58):
Sometimes it's short-termlooking forward and then
longer-term looking forward, butit's looking past that, that
amount of things that's dumpingon me right now in the present,
and sometimes students feeloverwhelmed with all of that.
I've got to do this, I've gotto do this, I've got to do this.
(22:20):
But taking the long view couldbe as simple as have I planned
out my week?
Do I use a study planner toplan what I'm going to do for
the next month, to take myassignments and say I will do
this on Tuesday, I will do thison Wednesday, I have this test
on Thursday.
(22:41):
That's taking a longer view forsome students than they ever do,
Because they so often eachnight they look at what do I
have to do for tomorrow, I'vegot this class tomorrow, what do
I have to do?
And then they discover, oh,what I have to do for tomorrow
(23:02):
is read this chapter and write atwo-page summary.
And now it's 10 o'clock atnight.
So they've been living so muchin the present that they haven't
taken that slightly longer view.
So that's a longer view thathelps.
And then sometimes it's thelonger view of I have to plan
for my classes in the spring.
(23:26):
Maybe I want to look long-termat the requirements that I need
to meet.
This class is a prerequisitefor that class.
So I have to take this classnext semester so that next year
(23:47):
I can take this other class.
So that's a little longer viewand that's sort of planning
ahead.
And then there's even sometimesplanning ahead okay, it's
January or February, this is thetime I should be looking for my
summer internship, or this isthe time I should be looking for
(24:09):
my summer job.
And then, of course, you lookinto the further future.
What kind of job do I want?
What's my career going to be?
What kind of internship shouldI take for that job?
Lynn Abrahams (24:23):
And looking that way, you know, it occurs to me,
vicki, that you know, when youlook at a bigger picture, it
makes it easier to make some ofthe decisions that need to be
made as well.
I think that sometimes, parentsand students, we all get stuck
(24:44):
in terms of thinking.
It has to go a certaindirection, a certain way, from
one next to the next to the next.
For example, a student may lookat the future and say I don't
know what I want to major in.
I think I'd like to take asemester and do a part-time job.
(25:08):
You know doing something tofigure that out.
In other words, it doesn't haveto be so linear and if you're
looking at the big picture, it'seasier to be a little more
flexible and know that it's allgoing towards that goal of
figuring out, having ourstudents figure out who they are
(25:29):
, how they want to give to theworld and you know the world and
who they want to be in thisworld.
Vicki Nelson (25:37):
And that who they want to be is so important and
sometimes gets buried in the job.
What's your major going to be?
What career goal do you have?
What internship are you goingto get to get that career job?
And I'm constantly reminding mystudents that their job is
(26:02):
going to be important and theywant to be in a career that they
like, but hopefully they'regoing to have some balance in
their life and their job may be.
I don't know if anybody works 40hours anymore, but 40 hours, or
it might be 30 hours, or itmight be 60 hours a week that
you're going to work on your job, but there are 168 hours in the
(26:25):
week.
Who are you going to be in someof the rest of those hours?
What's going to matter to youand what do you want to do with
your life beyond just your job?
And we put so much emphasis nowon students going to college
and choosing the right college,choosing the right major,
(26:46):
choosing the right internship,getting the right job.
But who are you also and that'swhere some of those
extracurriculars and things thatwe were talking about earlier
matter that you maintain some ofthose interests in things
beyond just the academic thingsthat you have to.
Lynn Abrahams (27:08):
So things like a gap year or a gap semester, that
can be really important, andyou know when you talk about
like who you are, those valuesdeep inside can often propel
students into multiple careers.
You know, it's not just onething.
I think a lot of students aremore flexible than we were when
(27:34):
we were that age.
In a way, you know where theycan change their ideas of what
they want to do a little biteasier than we did.
Vicki Nelson (27:48):
I know I used to think, you know, it was one job
and one career, and then youwould retire and get the gold
watch and you'd be done Right.
Lynn Abrahams (27:58):
Right, and most people I know are not doing the
work that they trained for intheir undergraduate degrees, so
there's a lot of room for changeand that can be exciting.
There's a lot of you know hopeof good jobs and you know new
(28:20):
things.
Vicki Nelson (28:23):
And they don't know where the path is going to
lead.
It winds around, sometimeswinds back around itself and
then moves forward.
So I think the one last thingwe wanted to talk about is a
little bit.
You know we've been talkingabout students and we talk about
that because we think parentshaving the conversation with
(28:46):
students can help students thinkabout these concepts and these
ideas.
Students think about theseconcepts and these ideas, but
also to think about that zoomingout and that longer view for
parents themselves, becausethey're going through
transitions, just as theirstudents are.
(29:06):
When the students go and thingsare changing, and while it's
important to help the studentslook backwards and look forwards
and look wide in the middle,it's also important for us to do
it as parents, especially asour students head off to college
(29:27):
and we look back a little bitat.
You know, I was not the parentwhen my kids went away to
college.
That I was 10 years before that, when they were eight years old
.
I learned a lot.
I was not the person, I was notthe parent.
I was earlier.
(29:48):
But it helps to look back andsay you know, what did I teach
my child?
That they're going to carryforward One of the things we
worry so much about for many ofus when our kids go to college
(30:09):
is, you know, will they know howto behave?
Will they know right from wrong?
And when I stop and think aboutwhat are the values that I
raised them with, that Iinstilled in them, that reminds
me that they're going to carrythose values.
At least some of them they'regoing to carry forward.
(30:31):
At least some of them they'regoing to carry forward.
And I think it helps me when Ilook back to who was I as a
parent, who am I now as a parent, also as a person.
And then what's going to happennext?
I said to you, lynn, before westarted recording, I was typing
(30:55):
up a few notes to think aboutthings we wanted to talk about,
and one of the things I you know, as we look forward for parents
, I wanted to talk a little bitabout the empty nest, because
you know what's it going to belike for us when we have this
empty nest.
And I did a typo, which I thinkI do fairly often, and instead
of writing nest N-E-S-T, I typednext N-E-X-T, and then I kind
(31:18):
of liked that we're talkingabout the empty next, but for
parents to think about what'snext for me?
As I, it's sometimes it's alittle heart wrenching as I send
my student away to college.
But what's next for me is alsolooking forward, and it takes a
(31:40):
little of the pressure off thenow, I think, as we worry about
admissions and we worry aboutGPAs and we worry about our
student choosing their major,not only do we want to remind
them to keep it in perspective,it helps us remember that too.
Lynn Abrahams (31:56):
I think that's really healthy for parents to do
that, to look at that, thatit's.
It's good to remember that notonly are we changing and move
you know we're in a process butyou know our kids are really
growing and sometimes, sometimeswe don't realize that.
(32:21):
You know it's not like they goaway to college and they're done
.
You know their brains aregrowing and growing and growing
and into their 20s and evenearly 30s, our kids are really
changing and we know this now interms of studying the brain,
(32:41):
and it's a relief, in a way,that they're moving along and
changing and that they're goingto be a different person,
different people when theygraduate than when they started.
And so it's a process for all ofus.
Vicki Nelson (32:55):
Yeah, I certainly see that in the students that I
teach because I teach a lot ofthem in their first year and
then, especially those that arein our major that I continue to
have contact with, especiallythose that are in our major that
I continue to have contact withI see them when they're
graduating and walking acrossthat stage and oh my goodness,
what's happened in those fouryears.
(33:15):
And so I think it helps forparents to remember too that the
student who walks across thestage at graduation is going to
be very different from thestudent that they drop off on
move-in day.
Lynn Abrahams (33:30):
That's why we love graduation day so much.
We all cry.
I know, we do, we do.
Vicki Nelson (33:36):
It's wonderful to see so.
There's hope and it's excitingto watch the process.
It's important to know that theprocess is going to happen and
to keep everything inperspective, to zoom out a
little bit, pull the camera backat the wider view of where
(33:56):
students have come from, wherewe have come from, what's going
on in the wider view of todayand then to you know, we can
only look so far in the future,we don't know what's out there.
But to know that some of thethings that happen now will
(34:17):
impact what happens in thefuture, lots to think about.
Lynn Abrahams (34:21):
Lots to think about Vicki.
Vicki Nelson (34:23):
Yeah, Hopefully lots to think about for parents
as well.
Hope this gave you a littlefood for thought, some ideas to
think about and talk to yourstudent about and see what goes
from there.
Harlan Cohen, that's a greatone.
(34:45):
You don't want to miss that.
And you had a book, Lynn.
Just real quickly you had abook you wanted to talk about
when we were talking aboutkeeping those failures in
perspective and all.
Lynn Abrahams (34:58):
I keep coming back to this book.
It's by a guy named Mark Katzand the name of the book is
Children who Fail at School butSucceed in Life.
And I love this book becauseit's a positive look at some of
(35:27):
the kids who have struggled inschool and how amazing they've
been doing in the world and it'ssort of looking back in the
world.
And it's sort of looking backand it's it's just, it's a very
positive look at you know someof the struggles our kids go
through Right, so we'll listlist that in the show notes too.
Vicki Nelson (35:38):
Great, so thanks for being with us.
We hope it was helpful and wehope that you will join us again
another time.
Thanks, bye-bye, that you willjoin us again another time,
thanks.
Lynn Abrahams (35:51):
Bye-bye.
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