July 2, 2025 • 53 mins
Navigating college with a physical disability requires thoughtful preparation beyond what most students face. What accommodations are available? How accessible are campus buildings? Who handles medical needs? These questions demand answers long before move-in day.
Annie Tulkin, founder of Accessible College and former Georgetown University disability support director, joins us to unpack these critical considerations. With both professional expertise and personal experience with learning disabilities and chronic health conditions, Annie offers a comprehensive roadmap for college preparation.
"Students with physical disabilities should start their college search just like any other student," Annie advises, "but they also need to think about healthcare proximity, physical accessibility, and campus culture." She recommends beginning this process junior year of high school or earlier, focusing on developing the self-advocacy skills that become essential in college.
For many families, concerns about disclosing disabilities during the college search process loom large. Annie puts these fears to rest, explaining the strict separation between admissions offices and disability support services. This allows students to have frank conversations about accommodation needs without impacting admissions decisions.
Beyond academic accommodations, students with physical disabilities must consider housing arrangements, medication management, and continuity of healthcare. Annie emphasizes the importance of evaluating a campus's inclusive culture through disability cultural centers, student organizations, and accessibility statements.
Perhaps most valuable is Annie's guidance on developing self-advocacy skills. Unlike high school, where parents often take the lead, college requires students to articulate their needs clearly and consistently. Parents can support this transition by gradually "lengthening the leash" while students are still in high school's supportive environment.
Ready to learn more? Visit accessiblecollege.com and explore Annie's online course "Preparing Students with Physical Disabilities and Health Conditions for College" to ensure your student has the tools they need for a successful college experience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts, vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration ofthe amazing child in college.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
This is the place where we talkabout all things connected to
parenting our students as theythink about going to college, as
they transition to college, asthey survive college.
My name is Lynn Abrahams and Iam a learning disability
(01:07):
specialist.
I've worked with collegestudents my whole career.
In fact, I just retired from 27years at a small liberal arts
college working with studentsand their families, but I also
have two sons that have gonethrough college and I've lived
to tell that tale as well.
(01:28):
I'm here with my colleague andfriend, Vicki Nelson.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Vicki, yes, hi, and then I'll introduce and then,
yes, we have a guest, and that'sthe important thing.
So I'll try to speed this upbecause you don't want to hear
from me.
I am a professor ofcommunication at a small liberal
arts college and I have LynnBeat in terms of the number of
years that I have spent but I'mnot going to put a number on it
(01:54):
and in addition to working withmy students every day and seeing
what I, you know learning fromthem, I also have three
daughters who have gone tocollege and who have come out
the other side, and so, likeLynn, I come to this topic as a
professional who works withstudents and also as a parent,
(02:16):
and so that's who we are, but,more importantly, we're here
with someone.
So I know Lynn is going tointroduce our guest.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Our guest is Annie Tulkin and we are thrilled to
have her here.
She is going to be doing sometalking about physical
disabilities and healthconditions in the college world.
Annie is the CEO and founder ofAccessible College and founder
of Accessible College, as wellas an educator, author and
(02:46):
public speaker.
She's an expert in the area ofcollege preparation and
transition, particularly forstudents with physical
disabilities and healthconditions.
Annie was the associate directorof the Academic Resource Center
at Georgetown University fornearly six years.
In that position, she supportedundergraduate, graduate and
(03:07):
medical students with physicaldisabilities and health
conditions and oversaw academicsupport services for the entire
student body.
Annie's worked with thedisability field for her entire
professional career, includingpositions as a regional
disability coordinator forHumanitas Inc and worked on the
(03:30):
Job Corps Disability SupportContract for the Department of
Labor, and as a specialist withNational Service Inclusion
Project and University Centersof Excellence in Developmental
Disabilities technicalassistance projects.
Annie has worked a lot and in alot of places and she's got a
(03:50):
lot of information to share withus, and I want to welcome you
to coming to our podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Thanks, Lynn and Vicki.
I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Super.
You know, I think that we'dlike to start by asking you a
little bit about your ownpersonal story.
And how did you get to do thiswork?
Why are you doing this work?
Yeah, so in my long bio.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
You mentioned that I was the associate director of
the disability support office atGeorgetown and the academic
resource center.
There is the disability supportoffice and as we're going into
this conversation, we shouldprobably tell people that there
will be some language shiftsthat we're making and some
things that we're talking about.
(04:43):
So universities all havedisability support offices.
They all have different namesaccessibility services, student
disability services, accessservices it's all over the place
.
So Georgetown's is called theAcademic Resource Center and my
background is in education.
My undergraduate degree is insecondary ed and my master's is
(05:04):
in special ed and I, when I wasworking at Georgetown, one of
the things that really keptemerging in my work with
students with disabilities wasthat so many students were
coming in and they didn't reallyknow what sorts of
accommodations they couldrequest.
They hadn't really thoughtabout independent living and
their needs.
They hadn't thought aboutcontinuity, independent living
and their needs.
(05:25):
They hadn't thought aboutcontinuity of care, medication
management, and as an educator,I was surprised, right, and I
decided then that there was moresupport needed specifically for
students with physicaldisabilities, so wheelchair
users, mobility device users,students with sensory
(05:45):
impairments, so hearingimpairments, visual impairments,
and students with chronichealth conditions like diabetes,
epilepsy, crohn's disease, pots, ehlers-danlos syndrome,
because a lot of times thosestudents didn't get the targeted
support that they needed inhigh school to actually think
through all of the types ofaccommodations they might need
(06:08):
in the college setting, and theyweren't familiar with the
process for requestingaccommodations and the
self-advocacy skills that wereneeded.
So that's what sort of broughtme to this work.
But more personally, I wasdiagnosed with a learning
disability as a kid.
So my parents were bothcounselors, school counselors,
(06:31):
and they recognized that I wasnot doing great at math and
science and things like that,and so I was diagnosed with a
processing disorder when I wasin fifth grade and then as an
adult I was also.
I've been diagnosed withchronic health conditions too, I
think.
Like a lot of people, sometimesthings emerge later on in life,
and so I bring that personalexperience as well into the work
(06:53):
that I do with students andfamilies.
And I work with students andfamilies across the country and
I have partnerships with theChristopher and Dana Reeve
Foundation, the MuscularDystrophy Association, other
foundations as well, and I'vedone some work with the Perkins
School for the Blind on creatinga college readiness resource
(07:13):
for blind and visually impairedstudents too, so we can share
those resources in the notes.
I'm sure, yes, we will.
(07:37):
So you primarily do you workwith parents, with students?
How do you split that?
The student has toself-disclose and they have to
be able to connect with thedisability support office
professionals and haveconversations about their needs
and what accommodations they'rerequesting.
So it's a really great idea forstudents to start working on
that before they get to college,right, so that they have the
(08:00):
skills and the language and areprepared to have those
conversations skills and thelanguage and are prepared to
have those conversations.
I also work with parents, andsometimes parents accompany
students to some of the initialmeetings, because parents, you
know, they also have concernsand things that they're maybe
(08:20):
not so savvy on too and need tolearn a little bit about
specifically around thattransition, because many of the
parents that I've worked withhave been really strong
advocates for their students fortheir whole life, right, and so
it's hard sometimes as a parentand I'm also a parent to step
away and to let your studentnavigate some of these things
(08:41):
independently.
So there is a transition forboth sets the student and the
parent, and we have toacknowledge that in this work
too, because it's that is achallenge for people, and so,
yeah, so I work with with bothparents and students, and I also
have an online course that'scalled Preparing Students with
Physical Disabilities and HealthConditions for College and
(09:04):
parents that that I made thatcourse specifically with parents
in mind.
It's also for educators andhealthcare providers and
counselors, too, and it has CEUcredits attached for the
American Occupational TherapyAssociation and the Association
of Social Work Boards too,because I figured like a lot of
(09:25):
people who are connecting withstudents could really use this
information and thinkingspecifically about how do
students start to think abouttheir accommodation needs, how
do they start to plan forindependent living?
And since there are fewerstudents who have physical
disabilities and chronic healthconditions, you know a lot of
(09:51):
support people educators,parents, guardians don't have
this information, and so Iwanted to sort of demystify this
process for people, so Icreated an online course to do
that, in addition to theone-on-one work that I do as
well.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And we're going to put some information in our show
notes about how to find you.
Okay, there will be lots therein the show notes.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And you know you mentioned the idea of students
having to, with some of thesedisabilities, having to learn
how to navigate on their own and, you know, let parents step
back just a little bit and dothat.
So I guess I have a when and awhat question, because I bunch
(10:36):
my questions.
One of my questions can reallybe five questions, but I'll
stick it to two, and it's whatshould students with these
disabilities be looking for whenthey're looking at a college,
and when should they start theprocess?
Is there a different timelinefor these students than the
(10:59):
normal sort of junior year kindof thing?
So, what are they looking forand when should they start that
process?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Yeah, so two-part answer to a two-part question.
Fair, that's fair enough, so Ialways say that students with
disabilities should start theircollege search just like any
other student, right?
What are their interests?
What are they looking for, whatsort of school culture, you
know?
Do they want a big school,small school, urban, rural,
(11:30):
price-wise, like looking at allthe typical pieces that every
other student is looking at?
For many of the students that Iwork with, they also might want
to consider their healthcareneeds, right.
So it could be thinking about,like proximity to health care
providers or if they need, youknow, specific medications or
(11:51):
transfusions or infusions orcare needs that they might have.
They might have to sort offactor that in as well.
And then for students withphysical disabilities, if you're
a wheelchair user, a mobilitydevice user, you might be
looking at the physicalaccessibility of the campus too.
But I think that the mostimportant thing that a student
(12:13):
can do is sort of look at theculture of the campus.
Is the culture inclusive?
Are the people on the campuswilling to work with you, to
support you, to meet your needs?
Because college accommodationsare governed under the Americans
with Disabilities Act, the ADAprovides for reasonable
accommodations.
So what is reasonable reallyvaries based on the campus, the
(12:37):
physical space, the program thatthe student is in, and so it's
really important that studentsare having upfront conversations
with disability support officesto sort of begin to understand
what types of accommodationsthey may get if they choose to
go to that school, and so Ioften encourage students to do
(12:57):
that.
In terms of timing, I think youknow most students tend to tune
into this stuff about junioryear because that's when the
high school folks start talkingabout it more right, like.
So that's when everybody startsto think about it a little bit
more critically and that is agreat time.
The earlier you can start, thebetter.
Right.
So like if a student in afamily wanted to start looking
(13:18):
at schools or exploring options,you know, freshman, sophomore
year of high school, that'stotally fine, that's good,
that's even better.
But junior year at least right,and I typically start working
with students junior year.
That is when everybody's sortof turning on their brains and
thinking about these things.
(13:39):
But in terms of sort of like myprocess and how I support
students and thinking about it,you know we start looking at,
like what accommodations theymight need on campus,
holistically so academic, butalso residential, so in the
dormitory dining accommodations.
A lot of students I supporthave different sorts of food
needs or food allergies,transportation accommodations,
(14:02):
recreation accommodations.
So we're thinking about thingsmore holistically, right, and
then also identifying theindependent living needs,
because a lot of the studentsthat I work with might need
support with some things likesupport with activities of daily
living, like bathing, dressing,um, you know, getting eating,
(14:23):
um, toileting.
So that could be a need that astudent has and there's a whole
process to think through on howthat looks and how it works on a
college campus.
And then also thinking about,just like medication management,
continuity of care.
If you need to see doctors, howare you still seeing them?
Can you see them remotely?
(14:44):
Do you have to go in person?
How will you do that?
So there's a lot of sort ofconsiderations that students
might have to think about, sortof based on their conditions
that they have.
I hope that answered yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Lots of good information there.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I want to ask a question about I want to go back
to talking about an inclusiveenvironment, like how do you
tell and I know that that's sortof a vague question, but how do
you tell it's going to be?
You know, how do you comparecolleges in terms of inclusivity
?
One question, and then Iactually have another too, and
(15:27):
that's who calls the disabilityoffice to ask those questions?
Does the student do that?
Will they talk to students?
Do parents do that?
How do you do that?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I'll start with the second question first.
So when I'm working withstudents, we create a list, a
customized list ofaccommodations.
Then we also create a list ofquestions that the student can
ask the disability supportoffice.
I usually target thosequestions with the student to
figure out how do we get beyond,yes or no.
(16:02):
Because I've been on the otherside of the desk in a disability
support office, I know thatmost families want the assurance
that the student willabsolutely get the accommodation
that they are requesting.
And I'll say this straight upright here for everybody to hear
.
You probably won't get anassurance before you commit to
(16:23):
the school, sign the dotted lineand submit your documentation,
because the disability supportoffice does not have to
guarantee that they will providea specific accommodation to a
student who has not matriculated, who has not signed the dotted
line and gone through theinteractive process, and so that
(16:43):
can be concerning for a lot ofthe families that I work with.
But, um, I like to use sort ofum, open ended questions or like
scenario based questions so youcan see how the person on the
other side of the desk isprocessing the information.
I also encourage students toask like are there other
(17:04):
students who use wheelchairs onthis campus.
Can you connect me with thosestudents too, because that's
another great way to see, like,what has somebody else's
experience been here?
How are they?
You know, how is the schoolmeeting their needs or not?
And just to have a chit-chat Interms of the inclusive?
Oh wait, I should say thestudents need to reach out to
(17:25):
the Disability Support Office.
Disability Support Officesdon't really want to hear from
parents.
Sorry, parents, I know this isa parent-focused podcast, but
part of this is gearing up yourstudents so that they are ready
to have these conversationsright, and so a huge piece of
that is handing that over toyour student.
(17:45):
So usually what I recommend isthat, like, the student can
script it out, and this issomething that I do with
students either have the studentyou know create an email and
send that to the disabilitysupport office to set up a time
to talk, or to script somethingout so that the student calls.
I found that for most studentsI work with, actually writing an
(18:05):
email is a good starting pointIn most disability support
offices once they see that thestudent has a specific type of
condition, like POTS orEhlers-Danlos, or if they say I
have cerebral palsy and I use awheelchair or I have a spinal
cord injury.
That is different than most ofthe outreach that comes to the
disability support office, andso people are quite receptive to
(18:27):
that and they can understandwhy someone would want to ask
more questions, right.
And so you know, I think thathaving that student do the
outreach is really importantbecause in the end, those are
the people that the student isgoing to have to work with.
You know, for the next fourprobably four plus years, at
(18:48):
least once a semester they willsee those people, probably more,
and so it's really importantthat the student is vetting the
people in the disability supportoffice to make sure that the
student feels comfortable withthose people and feels seen.
The student feels comfortablewith those people and feels seen
the inclusivity piece.
(19:11):
There are some like general waysthat you can sort of vet
universities.
First, there's about 21colleges now that have
disability cultural centerswhich are separate from
disability support offices,support offices.
So disability cultural centersare identity spaces, much like a
women's center or an LGBTQIAplus center or a black student
center or minority studentcenter.
(19:32):
All have different names atdifferent places, but those
identity spaces can be anindicator that there's at least
conversations about disability,disability rights, disability
history and a space for studentsto convene, right, that could
be a potential indicator of a,you know, an inclusive
(19:54):
environment.
There are 4,500 colleges in theUS about and I said, what did I
say 20, 21 disability culturalcenters, so that's not a lot.
The other way that I oftenencourage people to sort of look
at universities is to look atthe student newspaper and do
keyword searches Good idea.
(20:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff inthe student newspaper, it turns
out.
So you know key termsdisability, accessibility, you
know diversity, inclusivity,even wheelchair, you know like,
just look up some key terms.
Look for student clubs andorganizations.
That's another kind ofindicator too.
(20:37):
There are often healthcondition specific organizations
, or even, you know, like mentalhealth specific student
organizations or disabilityspecific clubs or organizations
on campus, so that those can behelpful too.
And then like the physicalspaces, right.
So some universities actuallyrequire accommodation statements
(21:02):
on flyers and outreach, right?
So if someone needs anaccommodation, so when you're
walking around a campus you'rechecking out the place, like see
if you see a flyer, does ithave an accommodation statement?
Look at the admissions pages.
Do you see yourself reflectedin these admissions pages, in
the pictures, in the information?
(21:22):
Is there a section on theadmissions page about disability
?
Look at the mission and valuesof the disability support office
too.
That's another great indicator.
Are they just about technicalcompliance?
Or is there mention of, youknow, inclusivity, holistic care
, that kind of stuff?
So those can be indicators,fabulous.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Great stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So I'd like to follow that up, kind of back up to the
first question or the firstpart of your multi-part question
, that conversation with thedisability office not having
(22:08):
matriculated yet.
You know, as part of theirselection process, as part of
their finding out about thecollege do do disability offices
and admissions, how much dothey communicate?
I could imagine some studentswho might say I don't want to
(22:29):
disclose a whole lot about mydisability until I've been
accepted because I don't want itto hurt my acceptance.
Is that something studentsshould be thinking about?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
The short answer is no Good, they shouldn't, because
there's a firewall betweenadmissions offices and
disability support offices.
The admissions process isdistinctly separate from the
disability support officeprocess and never the two shall
meet, and so students canconnect with disability support
offices and have conversationstotally separate from the
(23:04):
admissions process.
People often get concernedabout that, but you know, you
guys have worked in higher ed.
Higher ed departments are verysiloed, sometimes to a detriment
.
I can assure folks that theadmissions department is not
calling up the disabilitysupport office and the
disability support office is notcalling up the admissions
(23:26):
department to share informationlike that.
That is, that is illegal.
So also, like, students aren'tasked to disclose a disability
in the admissions process, soit's really up to the student if
(23:47):
they want to disclose adisability, maybe in a personal
essay or sometimes if they havegaps in education.
Many of the students that Iwork with have had flare-ups in
their conditions or maybethey've had surgeries so they've
missed school, missed highschool, so there are gaps in
their transcript and there's aplace in the Common App where
you can an additionalinformation section where
students can sort of explainwhat happened.
So that's a choice that thestudent can make in the
(24:11):
admissions process.
But talking to the DisabilitySupport Office doesn't impact
the admissions process at all.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I think it's important that students
understand that and be reassuredand not be afraid to have those
important conversations.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah, I mean this is here's the other thing, just
like to sort of blow everybody'smind for a second 21% of
college students report having adisability at any institution.
It's at least between 10 and20% of the students who are
receiving accommodations.
So that's the largestmarginalized group on any
college campus period, andpeople with disabilities are one
(24:50):
in four adults in the UnitedStates.
So there's a lot of us, and Ithink that it's a fascinating
space to be in, because it'salso a space where we just don't
talk about it enough and so itseems like quiet and stigmatized
(25:11):
, but in fact the numbers tellus a different story.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
So I need to ask you this question, you this question
what do you think, how do youthink the current state right
now of talking aboutdisabilities and inclusion and
on college campuses, how do youthink that's going to impact
(25:40):
students?
Do you know what I'm asking?
Yeah, like current state ofwhere things are.
Yeah, so that are happening.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, so you know it's it.
This is.
This is highly it's complicated, but, but I think for most of
us, like we believe as educators, that disability is an aspect
of diversity, right, and so someuniversities actually had
(26:14):
disability initiatives includedin their DEI statements.
But I think there's sort of twopieces here.
First, the legal componentright, so the ADA, the Americans
with Disabilities Act, stillexists.
Section 504 of theRehabilitation Act still exists.
That's the law that isanti-discrimination.
(26:35):
You can't discriminate againsta person because they have a
disability.
They need to have access toeducation, hospitals and whatnot
, and so we have those things.
So the accommodations componentis still vibrant and solid and
is there, and every student canstill request reasonable
accommodations.
The separation of sort of theidentity spaces around
(27:00):
initiatives on diversity andinclusion I think it's a
challenging space right now, butthere are colleges that do have
disability cultural centers andare still working hard to make
sure that students withdisabilities are included in
initiatives and are looking forstudents with disabilities to
(27:23):
help bring, you know, bring arobust conversation into their
university classrooms.
Right, because people withdisabilities have lived
experiences just like everybodyelse, and so I think that you
know that is it's.
We're going to see lessvisibility around different
tight aspects of diversitybecause of the sort of political
(27:48):
climate right now, but thatdoesn't make it go away.
So I mean, when you think aboutthe stats that I shared, right,
it's like, well, we're allstill here, so so it's really up
to to students to, too, to sortof activate some of these
pieces on campus and to beengaged and to be talking about
(28:10):
themselves and their needs andtheir hopes and the things that
they'd like to see in the future.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And I would think that different colleges and
universities will be different.
I mean, you know, that's allthe more reason to really check
out sort of the atmosphere atdifferent colleges.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yep.
Yeah, so okay, Vicki, your turn,yeah my turn and I'm thinking
how to frame a question I'mcurious about.
I mean, we know well, I'm aprofessor, so I like to think
that academics are the mostimportant part of a student's
college life.
(28:48):
After many, many, many years, Iam coming to the conclusion
that that's not true, becausestudents have a life beyond the
classroom and for most studentsthat's more important than what
happens in the classroom andit's not inappropriate.
So I'm thinking of things likehousing and extracurricular
(29:13):
activities, and how might someof these disabilities affect
housing?
I mean certainly access ifyou're in a wheelchair or
something like that.
But single rooms, serviceanimals, you know those sorts of
things.
(29:34):
You know students who can'thear a fire alarm or some of
those sorts of things.
How might that affect housingor a student being able to fully
participate in the life atcollege?
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, so those are all spaces where students would
be able to requestaccommodations, right?
So every college, typicallythrough the disability support
office, has a housingaccommodation process.
So if a student needs aspecific type of housing
accommodation, like anADA-accessible room or a room
(30:20):
with an en suite bathroom or awalk-in shower or, let's say,
visible fire alarms if they aredeaf or hearing impaired, then
they would make that request asa part of the housing
accommodation process.
Housing accommodations havingbeen the person who processed
all of these housingaccommodations on the disability
support office side at onepoint in my life are granted
based on demonstrated need.
So, like, what is the student'sneed?
Why do they need what they'reasking for?
What's their condition?
(30:41):
How does the student's need?
Why do they need what they'reasking for?
What's their condition?
How does the condition impactthem?
Why are they asking for whatthey've asked for, and is that
reasonable?
And then availability, which isthe trickier one, because, you
know, I worked at an institutionthat was initially built in
1789.
The housing has been updatedsince 1789.
(31:04):
But, you know, physicalaccessibility, especially on
historic campuses, can bechallenging.
And even if housing has beenupdated after the passage of the
ADA, which was in 1991, youknow there are a finite number
of spaces that may have beenbrought up to technical ADA
(31:26):
compliance.
And then there's this otherpiece that we don't often talk
about is like what istechnically compliant may not
actually work for that specificstudent right.
So, like I work with a lot ofstudents who have neuromuscular
disorders, muscular dystrophy,spinal cord injuries, and the
needs of one student with onetype of wheelchair are different
(31:46):
from the needs of so, like amanual wheelchair user who has
use of their hands differentfrom a student who uses a power
wheelchair and maybe uses ajoystick or doesn't have the
same hand mobility right.
So like entrances and technicalcompliance and push buttons and
things can look different fordifferent people.
And this is where a studentwould really want to engage that
(32:09):
disability support office tohave conversations about what
could potentially what theirroom could look like or what
sorts of housing might thatuniversity have.
I've encountered a lot of placesrecently where the first year
residence halls don't have anyen suite bathrooms and you know
(32:32):
I have students who havegastrointestinal conditions or
they also might have, like youknow, toileting situations where
they're, they have like tubesand they're changing things out
and colostomy bags and Inavigate all of these things
with people and so thinkingabout, okay, like how would that
(32:54):
work in a community bathroomsetting or what other options
might there be?
And so sometimes students mightask to live in an upper class
placement so that they can haveaccess to those other things,
and that could be a reasonableaccommodation if there's a room
available, because upper classstudents choose their rooms, you
know the year ahead.
(33:14):
So then there's that questionabout like, well, what's
available and how does this work.
But, yeah, students can ask foraccommodations around all of
those pieces.
Um, and it's really importantand this is where I I can be
really helpful too in workingwith students and families and
thinking through what are thespecific things that we're
requesting.
Um, because a lot of timesstudents haven't lived
(33:37):
independently before, maybethey've been to a camp or
something like that, but, um,they're not thinking about sort
of all of the pieces, and so Ispend a lot of time with
families thinking about all ofthe moving parts.
With recreation, you can stillrequest accommodations too.
So, for you know, to attend a,you know, a speaker event or a
(33:59):
concert on campus or a sportingevent, all of those fall under
reasonable accommodations.
The way that clubs and thingsare handled can be a little bit
different from school to school,right?
If someone needs a signlanguage interpreter or
something that costs money, youknow they are going to have to
talk to the disability supportoffice and figure out how can we
(34:19):
get an interpreter for thatclub or how can we make that
space accessible, can we move itto a more accessible space.
So that is, you know that'ssomething that students will
have to think about.
As they're, you know, engagingwith these schools and looking
at them Specifically forstudents with physical
(34:39):
disabilities too, I oftenencourage students, when they're
going on tours A, to look foran accessible campus map.
Does the college have a map thatshows you all of the accessible
entrances, the accessibleroutes, the accessible bathrooms
?
I mean, it's 2025.
There's no reason that we can'thave these things and have it
on a map so that people canactually access it, because it's
(35:01):
good for everybody, right?
If you know, if an olderperson's on that tour, if a
parent in a stroller is walkingaround the campus, like great
information for people to haveUniversally designed, right?
So we're thinking abouteverybody's needs.
So that's something I usuallytell students to look for If
they're signing up for a tour.
Is there a way to requestaccommodations for?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
that tour.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
You guys would be surprised how many universities
do not have a place where astudent can request an
accommodation and then thestudents having to call, the
parents having to call a lot ofhullabaloo ensues.
So I would look for that too.
It tells you something aboutthe space and the place, and
(35:51):
also, where are the accessibleentrances located?
The student has to live therenine months out of the year,
right?
So it's like do you want to beentering every building around
the back by the dumpsters everysingle day or not?
You know, and like you know andlike that you know, people make
decisions on where they want togo to school, you know, based on
a lot of different prioritiesand criteria.
So the student really has tofeel comfortable in that
(36:13):
environment, right, and theymight choose to go to a place
that, on the face of it, looksless physically accessible.
But maybe the people or theenvironment you know, the
accommodations and the supportsthat they're getting, outweigh
some of the physical.
You know, navigational pieces,and it's a personal question for
(36:34):
each individual student on whatyou know, what they want their
priorities to be and what theyenvision their experience in
college being priorities to beand what they envision their
experience in college being Wow,it's complicated, there's so
many layers, so many extralayers for these students.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
But you know, it strikes me, as you're talking
about that and pointing out thatyou know they have to weigh
their priorities and all that,perhaps sometimes these students
have given more thought totheir experience on a college
campus than other studentswho've just sort of coast along
and haven't really thought abouthow is it going to feel for me
(37:17):
on this campus, and so they mayhave a bit of an advantage.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I would just interject to say like sometimes
I mean, these are also typicalteenagers in many ways, right?
So it's like sometimes they'rejust like I want to go to a Big
Ten school and whatever you knowlike, and go to the sports
games and everything in between,right so I encounter families
where people have been like,really diligent and are thinking
about accessibility up front orthinking about their healthcare
(37:45):
providers, and then I encounterthe other thing where they've
put no thought into anythingrelated to their condition or
disability, but lots of thoughtinto the sports or the academics
or the program, right so, andit just it's unique to each
individual and how they'rethinking about the process.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, with or without disabilities.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty to eachindividual and how they're
thinking about the process.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah, with or without disabilities, Every, every,
every every one of them isdifferent.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
So I just in doing, in getting ready to talk to you
and doing a little bit of ofpoking around to see some things
I don't want to get into I meanwe talked about this a little
bit before we started recordingthat we could have nerdy
(38:36):
conversations and dig deep intoall of this, and most parents
don't need or want to hear that,but some of the statistics that
I saw were really interestingin that the number of things
like ADHD and learningdifferences and autism and some
of those things, the percentageof students with those kinds of
(38:58):
learning disabilities faroutweighs the percentage I mean
of of students with physicaldisabilities mobility issues,
chronic issues, brain injury,those sorts of things and so the
fact that that this populationof physical disabilities is so
(39:20):
small, um, and I'm not surewhere my question is but how
does that impact students'experience?
What should they be ready for?
The fact that I mean youmentioned the percentage, you
know, 20% and that feels likewow, 20%, that's a lot, but it
(39:42):
really isn't.
And so what can they anticipateabout their experience when
they're in such a small minority?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, I think the fact is, like you said, that
most of the students who arerequesting accommodations in
college have learningdisabilities.
Add, autism, mental healthconditions is like the next
highest request foraccommodations.
You're totally right in sayingthat students with physical
(40:13):
disabilities are a smaller partof the population I think it's
six or seven percent and so Iwould say that sometimes that
means that people on theuniversity side, on the
disability support office side,may have less experience sort of
helping a student navigate theaccommodations request process.
(40:35):
Most students that I talk tothink that there's like a menu
of accommodations or somethingthat they'll get to choose from
or, like you know, they expectthat the people in the
university will sort of knowwhat that they're going to need,
when in fact the university isoftentimes relying on the
student to say this is what Ineed and these are the
(40:57):
accommodations that I'mrequesting.
My preparation with studentswho have physical disabilities
and chronic health conditions ishelp them think through what
those accommodation requests aregoing to be, so that they have
a list sort of prepared, so thatwhen they're going into those
conversations it goes a littlebit easier.
(41:18):
I would also say that sometimesit means too that, like that,
many professors might sort oflump students together because
as a professor, vicki, you'vebeen on the other side of that
desk or in front of thatchalkboard.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Chalkboard.
You just dated yourself.
I am an old lady.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Whiteboard, promethean board or whatever
whiteboard, a Promethean boardor whatever.
So you know, professors get anaccommodation letter that states
what accommodations the studenthas been approved for.
It doesn't tell the professorwhat the student's condition or
conditions are right.
And so I think sometimesprofessors get a lot of
(42:04):
accommodation letters,especially if you're in a larger
state school where you mighthave, you know, 200 students in
your class.
If you're figuring, 20% ofthose have accommodations or
needing them.
So you're getting a bunch ofaccommodation letters coming in.
You're thinking most of thosestudents likely have learning
disabilities.
That's just how it kind of.
You're just like, oh it's awash of this, right, when in
(42:27):
fact someone might haveEhlers-Danlos Syndrome or a
condition that has unpredictableflares, right, so they might
have you know anything reallyepilepsy, diabetes, something
that needs to be monitored.
So you know it's reallyimportant that they've actually
(43:15):
had a conversation with theprofessor about what that's
going to look like in that class, right, and what the
expectations are, so everybody'son the same page.
So for a lot of students that'slike a little bit of extra work
.
In the disability community weoften talk about like fatigue,
of having to just keep talkingabout your needs and keep
(43:38):
requesting things, but it is areality, especially in the
college context, for studentswho have to constantly remind
people.
This is my accommodation, thisis what I need, these are the
things that I have, and that'sjust.
It's something that I helpstudents sort of prepare for.
You know, oftentimes we willmake canned emails so that they
have them ready to go, so thatthey can just hit, send, copy,
(44:01):
cut and send.
But that's something thatstudents really need to be
prepared for.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So it really strikes me.
I mean, you talk a lot about,you know, this is what I work
with students to do and forstudents who may not be working
with you, for parents to whatI'm hearing as you're describing
all of that is the ability toself-advocate, and so parents
(44:34):
can really work with theirstudents on identifying that
list and then understanding howto self-advocate, because I
think sometimes that's hard forstudents.
They feel as though they're youknow they're being a pain or
they're you know they don't knowhow to express.
This is this is what I need andthis is why I need it.
(44:54):
So, yeah, and shameless plug.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Yeah, shameless plug.
I do have an online coursepreparing students with physical
disabilities and healthconditions for college, and a
lot of times I'll have parentsand students take it together.
So it's like they get theunderstanding of the laws, they
get the understanding of how tocreate their list of
accommodations, questions to ask, thinking about independent
living, continuity of care,preparing for medication
(45:19):
management all of that is inthere.
But more generally, it's likestudents can start to work on
that and parents can start tolengthen the leash a little bit,
right?
So, like during a 504 planmeeting in high school, having
conversations there, letting thestudent lead, letting the
student read their IEP.
If they have an IEP, thestudent has a neuropsych
evaluation.
Have they read it?
(45:39):
Do they know what's in there?
Like, do they know what theirdoctors are writing about them?
Because, whether or not parentslike it, like the student is
going to have to be well-versedon their, on their condition,
and like part of that, I think,is actually knowing, like what
the quote unquote professionalshave said about us.
Right, like so.
So if we don't know what's inthose things like, it's hard
(46:02):
when the person on the otherside of the desk has already
read all this information aboutyou, very personal information
you should know what informationthat you've submitted right.
So, like those are like littlethings that students can start
to do and start to digest,really too.
Because you know, I'm all Iremember sitting, you know, at
(46:23):
Georgetown in the disabilitysupport office there reading
documentation, and then askingthe student and they're like,
wait, it says what in there?
And I'm like I don't, didn'tyou read it?
It's about you.
Here you go, Read what thisperson said about you, you know,
and they're like, oh well, yeah, I guess it is kind of like
that and so, yeah, so I wouldsay that that, like you know,
(46:53):
parents can start working withstudents on thinking about these
things early on, starting toboost those independent living
skills too.
So, like, medication managementis a classic one.
Whether you have ADD orepilepsy, you know the student's
going to need to figure out howare they getting their
medication.
You know how are they?
Are they putting it in in pillpacks?
Are they using a remindersystem?
How are they doing that?
And the best time to start isbefore they get to school or
(47:16):
they go to college.
You know, start today, um, inhigh school, where they're still
in a supported environment, sothat you know if, if the, if the
wheels come off, they're stillat home and it's not all going
to fall apart, but we need tostart working on those skills
because I've always blown awayat how many students really have
no idea, have never refilled aprescription, don't even know
(47:38):
their doctor's name or how tomake that phone call?
Yeah, no idea.
So those are like the adultingskills that people can work on.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
And that's true for all students.
Disabilities are not thosedaily living things.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah.
So, annie, we could talk allday, okay, because there's lots
of good stuff here and I thinkyou've given parents quite a bit
to think about, which isfabulous, and I think you've
given parents quite a bit tothink about which is fabulous.
One of the questions we alwaysask folks that we interview at
the end is if you we're askingif you have any books you could
(48:18):
recommend.
We're, vicki and I are bothreaders and you know.
Are there any things you couldrecommend for either parents or
students?
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Mm-hmm.
Are there any?
Speaker 4 (48:28):
things you could recommend for either parents or
students.
I have lots of books that I amreading, but one right now, and
some are academic and somearen't.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I read some romance novels as well personally, I
like mysteries.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
We can talk about those later.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
But the one book that I think is like really, really
important is being Human.
It's called being Human anUnrepentant Memoir of a
Disability Rights Activist, andit's by Judy Heumann.
And Judy Heumann passed awayabout two years ago and Judy
(49:13):
Heumann was a disability rightsactivist in the United States
who was pivotal in passingSection 504 and passing the ADA,
and she had polio as a kid andwas a wheelchair user and she
was also an internationaldisability rights activist as
well, and it's a great book.
And if you're not into readingbooks because some people aren't
I would recommend thedocumentary Crip Camp.
(49:38):
It's C-R-I-P-C-A-M-P Crip Campand you can watch it on Netflix.
It was a documentary that cameout a few years ago and was
nominated for a bunch of awardsand it was on Judy Heumannann is
featured in it and it was on acamp that was in upstate New
York for young adults withdisabilities and how they used
that camp as a catalyst forpassing section 504 and then
passing subsequently theAmericans with Disabilities Act,
(50:01):
and it's just.
It has like old footage fromthe camp and all these people
who went to the camp and howthis camp impacted them, and
it's an amazing documentary.
So Netflix you can also find iton YouTube too.
You can watch it there as well.
So those are my recommendations.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Fabulous.
I'm thrilled.
I can't wait to find both ofthose.
I haven't, so thank you, thankyou.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
So you're going to give us all kinds of information
to put into the show notes, butvery quickly.
If parents wanted to learn more, wanted to reach out, what
would be the best way for themto follow this up?
Speaker 4 (50:40):
Sure, they can find me on my website, which is
accessiblecollegecom.
I'm also on Instagram atAccessible College.
I'm on Facebook at AccessibleCollege.
I also have a Facebook groupwith two independent college
consultants.
The group is called CollegeSuccess Physical Disabilities,
chronic Health and Mental Health, and we'll put a link in the
(51:02):
show notes.
It's a great group.
It's open for anybody who'sinterested in learning more
about students with physicaldisabilities, health conditions,
mental health conditions andgoing to college.
Yeah, so we'll put all of that,those contacts, in the show
notes.
Yep, great.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Thank you so much for spending time with us and
sharing so much information withus and sharing so much
information and as we have theseconversations about
disabilities, we've had quite afew about learning disabilities,
and so this is really nice tolook at this, but I'm always
struck, as someone who's not inthat world, how much of the
(51:44):
advice holds for any parent, anystudent.
If you just listen, there's somuch that everybody can pull
from this.
So thank you so much for takingus into the physical disability
world.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
Yeah, thank you both for having me.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
And thank you to everyone for joining us and
we'll see you next time.
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts, vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration ofthe amazing child in college.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
This is the place where we talkabout all things connected to
parenting our students as theythink about going to college, as
they transition to college, asthey survive college.
My name is Lynn Abrahams and Iam a learning disability
(01:07):
specialist.
I've worked with collegestudents my whole career.
In fact, I just retired from 27years at a small liberal arts
college working with studentsand their families, but I also
have two sons that have gonethrough college and I've lived
to tell that tale as well.
(01:28):
I'm here with my colleague andfriend, Vicki Nelson.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Vicki, yes, hi, and then I'll introduce and then,
yes, we have a guest, and that'sthe important thing.
So I'll try to speed this upbecause you don't want to hear
from me.
I am a professor ofcommunication at a small liberal
arts college and I have LynnBeat in terms of the number of
years that I have spent but I'mnot going to put a number on it
(01:54):
and in addition to working withmy students every day and seeing
what I, you know learning fromthem, I also have three
daughters who have gone tocollege and who have come out
the other side, and so, likeLynn, I come to this topic as a
professional who works withstudents and also as a parent,
(02:16):
and so that's who we are, but,more importantly, we're here
with someone.
So I know Lynn is going tointroduce our guest.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Our guest is Annie Tulkin and we are thrilled to
have her here.
She is going to be doing sometalking about physical
disabilities and healthconditions in the college world.
Annie is the CEO and founder ofAccessible College and founder
of Accessible College, as wellas an educator, author and
(02:46):
public speaker.
She's an expert in the area ofcollege preparation and
transition, particularly forstudents with physical
disabilities and healthconditions.
Annie was the associate directorof the Academic Resource Center
at Georgetown University fornearly six years.
In that position, she supportedundergraduate, graduate and
(03:07):
medical students with physicaldisabilities and health
conditions and oversaw academicsupport services for the entire
student body.
Annie's worked with thedisability field for her entire
professional career, includingpositions as a regional
disability coordinator forHumanitas Inc and worked on the
(03:30):
Job Corps Disability SupportContract for the Department of
Labor, and as a specialist withNational Service Inclusion
Project and University Centersof Excellence in Developmental
Disabilities technicalassistance projects.
Annie has worked a lot and in alot of places and she's got a
(03:50):
lot of information to share withus, and I want to welcome you
to coming to our podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Thanks, Lynn and Vicki.
I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Super.
You know, I think that we'dlike to start by asking you a
little bit about your ownpersonal story.
And how did you get to do thiswork?
Why are you doing this work?
Yeah, so in my long bio.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
You mentioned that I was the associate director of
the disability support office atGeorgetown and the academic
resource center.
There is the disability supportoffice and as we're going into
this conversation, we shouldprobably tell people that there
will be some language shiftsthat we're making and some
things that we're talking about.
(04:43):
So universities all havedisability support offices.
They all have different namesaccessibility services, student
disability services, accessservices it's all over the place
.
So Georgetown's is called theAcademic Resource Center and my
background is in education.
My undergraduate degree is insecondary ed and my master's is
(05:04):
in special ed and I, when I wasworking at Georgetown, one of
the things that really keptemerging in my work with
students with disabilities wasthat so many students were
coming in and they didn't reallyknow what sorts of
accommodations they couldrequest.
They hadn't really thoughtabout independent living and
their needs.
They hadn't thought aboutcontinuity, independent living
and their needs.
(05:25):
They hadn't thought aboutcontinuity of care, medication
management, and as an educator,I was surprised, right, and I
decided then that there was moresupport needed specifically for
students with physicaldisabilities, so wheelchair
users, mobility device users,students with sensory
(05:45):
impairments, so hearingimpairments, visual impairments,
and students with chronichealth conditions like diabetes,
epilepsy, crohn's disease, pots, ehlers-danlos syndrome,
because a lot of times thosestudents didn't get the targeted
support that they needed inhigh school to actually think
through all of the types ofaccommodations they might need
(06:08):
in the college setting, and theyweren't familiar with the
process for requestingaccommodations and the
self-advocacy skills that wereneeded.
So that's what sort of broughtme to this work.
But more personally, I wasdiagnosed with a learning
disability as a kid.
So my parents were bothcounselors, school counselors,
(06:31):
and they recognized that I wasnot doing great at math and
science and things like that,and so I was diagnosed with a
processing disorder when I wasin fifth grade and then as an
adult I was also.
I've been diagnosed withchronic health conditions too, I
think.
Like a lot of people, sometimesthings emerge later on in life,
and so I bring that personalexperience as well into the work
(06:53):
that I do with students andfamilies.
And I work with students andfamilies across the country and
I have partnerships with theChristopher and Dana Reeve
Foundation, the MuscularDystrophy Association, other
foundations as well, and I'vedone some work with the Perkins
School for the Blind on creatinga college readiness resource
(07:13):
for blind and visually impairedstudents too, so we can share
those resources in the notes.
I'm sure, yes, we will.
(07:37):
So you primarily do you workwith parents, with students?
How do you split that?
The student has toself-disclose and they have to
be able to connect with thedisability support office
professionals and haveconversations about their needs
and what accommodations they'rerequesting.
So it's a really great idea forstudents to start working on
that before they get to college,right, so that they have the
(08:00):
skills and the language and areprepared to have those
conversations skills and thelanguage and are prepared to
have those conversations.
I also work with parents, andsometimes parents accompany
students to some of the initialmeetings, because parents, you
know, they also have concernsand things that they're maybe
(08:20):
not so savvy on too and need tolearn a little bit about
specifically around thattransition, because many of the
parents that I've worked withhave been really strong
advocates for their students fortheir whole life, right, and so
it's hard sometimes as a parentand I'm also a parent to step
away and to let your studentnavigate some of these things
(08:41):
independently.
So there is a transition forboth sets the student and the
parent, and we have toacknowledge that in this work
too, because it's that is achallenge for people, and so,
yeah, so I work with with bothparents and students, and I also
have an online course that'scalled Preparing Students with
Physical Disabilities and HealthConditions for College and
(09:04):
parents that that I made thatcourse specifically with parents
in mind.
It's also for educators andhealthcare providers and
counselors, too, and it has CEUcredits attached for the
American Occupational TherapyAssociation and the Association
of Social Work Boards too,because I figured like a lot of
(09:25):
people who are connecting withstudents could really use this
information and thinkingspecifically about how do
students start to think abouttheir accommodation needs, how
do they start to plan forindependent living?
And since there are fewerstudents who have physical
disabilities and chronic healthconditions, you know a lot of
(09:51):
support people educators,parents, guardians don't have
this information, and so Iwanted to sort of demystify this
process for people, so Icreated an online course to do
that, in addition to theone-on-one work that I do as
well.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And we're going to put some information in our show
notes about how to find you.
Okay, there will be lots therein the show notes.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And you know you mentioned the idea of students
having to, with some of thesedisabilities, having to learn
how to navigate on their own and, you know, let parents step
back just a little bit and dothat.
So I guess I have a when and awhat question, because I bunch
(10:36):
my questions.
One of my questions can reallybe five questions, but I'll
stick it to two, and it's whatshould students with these
disabilities be looking for whenthey're looking at a college,
and when should they start theprocess?
Is there a different timelinefor these students than the
(10:59):
normal sort of junior year kindof thing?
So, what are they looking forand when should they start that
process?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Yeah, so two-part answer to a two-part question.
Fair, that's fair enough, so Ialways say that students with
disabilities should start theircollege search just like any
other student, right?
What are their interests?
What are they looking for, whatsort of school culture, you
know?
Do they want a big school,small school, urban, rural,
(11:30):
price-wise, like looking at allthe typical pieces that every
other student is looking at?
For many of the students that Iwork with, they also might want
to consider their healthcareneeds, right.
So it could be thinking about,like proximity to health care
providers or if they need, youknow, specific medications or
(11:51):
transfusions or infusions orcare needs that they might have.
They might have to sort offactor that in as well.
And then for students withphysical disabilities, if you're
a wheelchair user, a mobilitydevice user, you might be
looking at the physicalaccessibility of the campus too.
But I think that the mostimportant thing that a student
(12:13):
can do is sort of look at theculture of the campus.
Is the culture inclusive?
Are the people on the campuswilling to work with you, to
support you, to meet your needs?
Because college accommodationsare governed under the Americans
with Disabilities Act, the ADAprovides for reasonable
accommodations.
So what is reasonable reallyvaries based on the campus, the
(12:37):
physical space, the program thatthe student is in, and so it's
really important that studentsare having upfront conversations
with disability support officesto sort of begin to understand
what types of accommodationsthey may get if they choose to
go to that school, and so Ioften encourage students to do
(12:57):
that.
In terms of timing, I think youknow most students tend to tune
into this stuff about junioryear because that's when the
high school folks start talkingabout it more right, like.
So that's when everybody startsto think about it a little bit
more critically and that is agreat time.
The earlier you can start, thebetter.
Right.
So like if a student in afamily wanted to start looking
(13:18):
at schools or exploring options,you know, freshman, sophomore
year of high school, that'stotally fine, that's good,
that's even better.
But junior year at least right,and I typically start working
with students junior year.
That is when everybody's sortof turning on their brains and
thinking about these things.
(13:39):
But in terms of sort of like myprocess and how I support
students and thinking about it,you know we start looking at,
like what accommodations theymight need on campus,
holistically so academic, butalso residential, so in the
dormitory dining accommodations.
A lot of students I supporthave different sorts of food
needs or food allergies,transportation accommodations,
(14:02):
recreation accommodations.
So we're thinking about thingsmore holistically, right, and
then also identifying theindependent living needs,
because a lot of the studentsthat I work with might need
support with some things likesupport with activities of daily
living, like bathing, dressing,um, you know, getting eating,
(14:23):
um, toileting.
So that could be a need that astudent has and there's a whole
process to think through on howthat looks and how it works on a
college campus.
And then also thinking about,just like medication management,
continuity of care.
If you need to see doctors, howare you still seeing them?
Can you see them remotely?
(14:44):
Do you have to go in person?
How will you do that?
So there's a lot of sort ofconsiderations that students
might have to think about, sortof based on their conditions
that they have.
I hope that answered yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Lots of good information there.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I want to ask a question about I want to go back
to talking about an inclusiveenvironment, like how do you
tell and I know that that's sortof a vague question, but how do
you tell it's going to be?
You know, how do you comparecolleges in terms of inclusivity
?
One question, and then Iactually have another too, and
(15:27):
that's who calls the disabilityoffice to ask those questions?
Does the student do that?
Will they talk to students?
Do parents do that?
How do you do that?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I'll start with the second question first.
So when I'm working withstudents, we create a list, a
customized list ofaccommodations.
Then we also create a list ofquestions that the student can
ask the disability supportoffice.
I usually target thosequestions with the student to
figure out how do we get beyond,yes or no.
(16:02):
Because I've been on the otherside of the desk in a disability
support office, I know thatmost families want the assurance
that the student willabsolutely get the accommodation
that they are requesting.
And I'll say this straight upright here for everybody to hear
.
You probably won't get anassurance before you commit to
(16:23):
the school, sign the dotted lineand submit your documentation,
because the disability supportoffice does not have to
guarantee that they will providea specific accommodation to a
student who has not matriculated, who has not signed the dotted
line and gone through theinteractive process, and so that
(16:43):
can be concerning for a lot ofthe families that I work with.
But, um, I like to use sort ofum, open ended questions or like
scenario based questions so youcan see how the person on the
other side of the desk isprocessing the information.
I also encourage students toask like are there other
(17:04):
students who use wheelchairs onthis campus.
Can you connect me with thosestudents too, because that's
another great way to see, like,what has somebody else's
experience been here?
How are they?
You know, how is the schoolmeeting their needs or not?
And just to have a chit-chat Interms of the inclusive?
Oh wait, I should say thestudents need to reach out to
(17:25):
the Disability Support Office.
Disability Support Officesdon't really want to hear from
parents.
Sorry, parents, I know this isa parent-focused podcast, but
part of this is gearing up yourstudents so that they are ready
to have these conversationsright, and so a huge piece of
that is handing that over toyour student.
(17:45):
So usually what I recommend isthat, like, the student can
script it out, and this issomething that I do with
students either have the studentyou know create an email and
send that to the disabilitysupport office to set up a time
to talk, or to script somethingout so that the student calls.
I found that for most studentsI work with, actually writing an
(18:05):
email is a good starting pointIn most disability support
offices once they see that thestudent has a specific type of
condition, like POTS orEhlers-Danlos, or if they say I
have cerebral palsy and I use awheelchair or I have a spinal
cord injury.
That is different than most ofthe outreach that comes to the
disability support office, andso people are quite receptive to
(18:27):
that and they can understandwhy someone would want to ask
more questions, right.
And so you know, I think thathaving that student do the
outreach is really importantbecause in the end, those are
the people that the student isgoing to have to work with.
You know, for the next fourprobably four plus years, at
(18:48):
least once a semester they willsee those people, probably more,
and so it's really importantthat the student is vetting the
people in the disability supportoffice to make sure that the
student feels comfortable withthose people and feels seen.
The student feels comfortablewith those people and feels seen
the inclusivity piece.
(19:11):
There are some like general waysthat you can sort of vet
universities.
First, there's about 21colleges now that have
disability cultural centerswhich are separate from
disability support offices,support offices.
So disability cultural centersare identity spaces, much like a
women's center or an LGBTQIAplus center or a black student
center or minority studentcenter.
(19:32):
All have different names atdifferent places, but those
identity spaces can be anindicator that there's at least
conversations about disability,disability rights, disability
history and a space for studentsto convene, right, that could
be a potential indicator of a,you know, an inclusive
(19:54):
environment.
There are 4,500 colleges in theUS about and I said, what did I
say 20, 21 disability culturalcenters, so that's not a lot.
The other way that I oftenencourage people to sort of look
at universities is to look atthe student newspaper and do
keyword searches Good idea.
(20:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff inthe student newspaper, it turns
out.
So you know key termsdisability, accessibility, you
know diversity, inclusivity,even wheelchair, you know like,
just look up some key terms.
Look for student clubs andorganizations.
That's another kind ofindicator too.
(20:37):
There are often healthcondition specific organizations
, or even, you know, like mentalhealth specific student
organizations or disabilityspecific clubs or organizations
on campus, so that those can behelpful too.
And then like the physicalspaces, right.
So some universities actuallyrequire accommodation statements
(21:02):
on flyers and outreach, right?
So if someone needs anaccommodation, so when you're
walking around a campus you'rechecking out the place, like see
if you see a flyer, does ithave an accommodation statement?
Look at the admissions pages.
Do you see yourself reflectedin these admissions pages, in
the pictures, in the information?
(21:22):
Is there a section on theadmissions page about disability
?
Look at the mission and valuesof the disability support office
too.
That's another great indicator.
Are they just about technicalcompliance?
Or is there mention of, youknow, inclusivity, holistic care
, that kind of stuff?
So those can be indicators,fabulous.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Great stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So I'd like to follow that up, kind of back up to the
first question or the firstpart of your multi-part question
, that conversation with thedisability office not having
(22:08):
matriculated yet.
You know, as part of theirselection process, as part of
their finding out about thecollege do do disability offices
and admissions, how much dothey communicate?
I could imagine some studentswho might say I don't want to
(22:29):
disclose a whole lot about mydisability until I've been
accepted because I don't want itto hurt my acceptance.
Is that something studentsshould be thinking about?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
The short answer is no Good, they shouldn't, because
there's a firewall betweenadmissions offices and
disability support offices.
The admissions process isdistinctly separate from the
disability support officeprocess and never the two shall
meet, and so students canconnect with disability support
offices and have conversationstotally separate from the
(23:04):
admissions process.
People often get concernedabout that, but you know, you
guys have worked in higher ed.
Higher ed departments are verysiloed, sometimes to a detriment
.
I can assure folks that theadmissions department is not
calling up the disabilitysupport office and the
disability support office is notcalling up the admissions
(23:26):
department to share informationlike that.
That is, that is illegal.
So also, like, students aren'tasked to disclose a disability
in the admissions process, soit's really up to the student if
(23:47):
they want to disclose adisability, maybe in a personal
essay or sometimes if they havegaps in education.
Many of the students that Iwork with have had flare-ups in
their conditions or maybethey've had surgeries so they've
missed school, missed highschool, so there are gaps in
their transcript and there's aplace in the Common App where
you can an additionalinformation section where
students can sort of explainwhat happened.
So that's a choice that thestudent can make in the
(24:11):
admissions process.
But talking to the DisabilitySupport Office doesn't impact
the admissions process at all.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I think it's important that students
understand that and be reassuredand not be afraid to have those
important conversations.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah, I mean this is here's the other thing, just
like to sort of blow everybody'smind for a second 21% of
college students report having adisability at any institution.
It's at least between 10 and20% of the students who are
receiving accommodations.
So that's the largestmarginalized group on any
college campus period, andpeople with disabilities are one
(24:50):
in four adults in the UnitedStates.
So there's a lot of us, and Ithink that it's a fascinating
space to be in, because it'salso a space where we just don't
talk about it enough and so itseems like quiet and stigmatized
(25:11):
, but in fact the numbers tellus a different story.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
So I need to ask you this question, you this question
what do you think, how do youthink the current state right
now of talking aboutdisabilities and inclusion and
on college campuses, how do youthink that's going to impact
(25:40):
students?
Do you know what I'm asking?
Yeah, like current state ofwhere things are.
Yeah, so that are happening.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, so you know it's it.
This is.
This is highly it's complicated, but, but I think for most of
us, like we believe as educators, that disability is an aspect
of diversity, right, and so someuniversities actually had
(26:14):
disability initiatives includedin their DEI statements.
But I think there's sort of twopieces here.
First, the legal componentright, so the ADA, the Americans
with Disabilities Act, stillexists.
Section 504 of theRehabilitation Act still exists.
That's the law that isanti-discrimination.
(26:35):
You can't discriminate againsta person because they have a
disability.
They need to have access toeducation, hospitals and whatnot
, and so we have those things.
So the accommodations componentis still vibrant and solid and
is there, and every student canstill request reasonable
accommodations.
The separation of sort of theidentity spaces around
(27:00):
initiatives on diversity andinclusion I think it's a
challenging space right now, butthere are colleges that do have
disability cultural centers andare still working hard to make
sure that students withdisabilities are included in
initiatives and are looking forstudents with disabilities to
(27:23):
help bring, you know, bring arobust conversation into their
university classrooms.
Right, because people withdisabilities have lived
experiences just like everybodyelse, and so I think that you
know that is it's.
We're going to see lessvisibility around different
tight aspects of diversitybecause of the sort of political
(27:48):
climate right now, but thatdoesn't make it go away.
So I mean, when you think aboutthe stats that I shared, right,
it's like, well, we're allstill here, so so it's really up
to to students to, too, to sortof activate some of these
pieces on campus and to beengaged and to be talking about
(28:10):
themselves and their needs andtheir hopes and the things that
they'd like to see in the future.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And I would think that different colleges and
universities will be different.
I mean, you know, that's allthe more reason to really check
out sort of the atmosphere atdifferent colleges.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yep.
Yeah, so okay, Vicki, your turn,yeah my turn and I'm thinking
how to frame a question I'mcurious about.
I mean, we know well, I'm aprofessor, so I like to think
that academics are the mostimportant part of a student's
college life.
(28:48):
After many, many, many years, Iam coming to the conclusion
that that's not true, becausestudents have a life beyond the
classroom and for most studentsthat's more important than what
happens in the classroom andit's not inappropriate.
So I'm thinking of things likehousing and extracurricular
(29:13):
activities, and how might someof these disabilities affect
housing?
I mean certainly access ifyou're in a wheelchair or
something like that.
But single rooms, serviceanimals, you know those sorts of
things.
(29:34):
You know students who can'thear a fire alarm or some of
those sorts of things.
How might that affect housingor a student being able to fully
participate in the life atcollege?
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, so those are all spaces where students would
be able to requestaccommodations, right?
So every college, typicallythrough the disability support
office, has a housingaccommodation process.
So if a student needs aspecific type of housing
accommodation, like anADA-accessible room or a room
(30:20):
with an en suite bathroom or awalk-in shower or, let's say,
visible fire alarms if they aredeaf or hearing impaired, then
they would make that request asa part of the housing
accommodation process.
Housing accommodations havingbeen the person who processed
all of these housingaccommodations on the disability
support office side at onepoint in my life are granted
based on demonstrated need.
So, like, what is the student'sneed?
Why do they need what they'reasking for?
What's their condition?
(30:41):
How does the student's need?
Why do they need what they'reasking for?
What's their condition?
How does the condition impactthem?
Why are they asking for whatthey've asked for, and is that
reasonable?
And then availability, which isthe trickier one, because, you
know, I worked at an institutionthat was initially built in
1789.
The housing has been updatedsince 1789.
(31:04):
But, you know, physicalaccessibility, especially on
historic campuses, can bechallenging.
And even if housing has beenupdated after the passage of the
ADA, which was in 1991, youknow there are a finite number
of spaces that may have beenbrought up to technical ADA
(31:26):
compliance.
And then there's this otherpiece that we don't often talk
about is like what istechnically compliant may not
actually work for that specificstudent right.
So, like I work with a lot ofstudents who have neuromuscular
disorders, muscular dystrophy,spinal cord injuries, and the
needs of one student with onetype of wheelchair are different
(31:46):
from the needs of so, like amanual wheelchair user who has
use of their hands differentfrom a student who uses a power
wheelchair and maybe uses ajoystick or doesn't have the
same hand mobility right.
So like entrances and technicalcompliance and push buttons and
things can look different fordifferent people.
And this is where a studentwould really want to engage that
(32:09):
disability support office tohave conversations about what
could potentially what theirroom could look like or what
sorts of housing might thatuniversity have.
I've encountered a lot of placesrecently where the first year
residence halls don't have anyen suite bathrooms and you know
(32:32):
I have students who havegastrointestinal conditions or
they also might have, like youknow, toileting situations where
they're, they have like tubesand they're changing things out
and colostomy bags and Inavigate all of these things
with people and so thinkingabout, okay, like how would that
(32:54):
work in a community bathroomsetting or what other options
might there be?
And so sometimes students mightask to live in an upper class
placement so that they can haveaccess to those other things,
and that could be a reasonableaccommodation if there's a room
available, because upper classstudents choose their rooms, you
know the year ahead.
(33:14):
So then there's that questionabout like, well, what's
available and how does this work.
But, yeah, students can ask foraccommodations around all of
those pieces.
Um, and it's really importantand this is where I I can be
really helpful too in workingwith students and families and
thinking through what are thespecific things that we're
requesting.
Um, because a lot of timesstudents haven't lived
(33:37):
independently before, maybethey've been to a camp or
something like that, but, um,they're not thinking about sort
of all of the pieces, and so Ispend a lot of time with
families thinking about all ofthe moving parts.
With recreation, you can stillrequest accommodations too.
So, for you know, to attend a,you know, a speaker event or a
(33:59):
concert on campus or a sportingevent, all of those fall under
reasonable accommodations.
The way that clubs and thingsare handled can be a little bit
different from school to school,right?
If someone needs a signlanguage interpreter or
something that costs money, youknow they are going to have to
talk to the disability supportoffice and figure out how can we
(34:19):
get an interpreter for thatclub or how can we make that
space accessible, can we move itto a more accessible space.
So that is, you know that'ssomething that students will
have to think about.
As they're, you know, engagingwith these schools and looking
at them Specifically forstudents with physical
(34:39):
disabilities too, I oftenencourage students, when they're
going on tours A, to look foran accessible campus map.
Does the college have a map thatshows you all of the accessible
entrances, the accessibleroutes, the accessible bathrooms
?
I mean, it's 2025.
There's no reason that we can'thave these things and have it
on a map so that people canactually access it, because it's
(35:01):
good for everybody, right?
If you know, if an olderperson's on that tour, if a
parent in a stroller is walkingaround the campus, like great
information for people to haveUniversally designed, right?
So we're thinking abouteverybody's needs.
So that's something I usuallytell students to look for If
they're signing up for a tour.
Is there a way to requestaccommodations for?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
that tour.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
You guys would be surprised how many universities
do not have a place where astudent can request an
accommodation and then thestudents having to call, the
parents having to call a lot ofhullabaloo ensues.
So I would look for that too.
It tells you something aboutthe space and the place, and
(35:51):
also, where are the accessibleentrances located?
The student has to live therenine months out of the year,
right?
So it's like do you want to beentering every building around
the back by the dumpsters everysingle day or not?
You know, and like you know andlike that you know, people make
decisions on where they want togo to school, you know, based on
a lot of different prioritiesand criteria.
So the student really has tofeel comfortable in that
(36:13):
environment, right, and theymight choose to go to a place
that, on the face of it, looksless physically accessible.
But maybe the people or theenvironment you know, the
accommodations and the supportsthat they're getting, outweigh
some of the physical.
You know, navigational pieces,and it's a personal question for
(36:34):
each individual student on whatyou know, what they want their
priorities to be and what theyenvision their experience in
college being priorities to beand what they envision their
experience in college being Wow,it's complicated, there's so
many layers, so many extralayers for these students.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
But you know, it strikes me, as you're talking
about that and pointing out thatyou know they have to weigh
their priorities and all that,perhaps sometimes these students
have given more thought totheir experience on a college
campus than other studentswho've just sort of coast along
and haven't really thought abouthow is it going to feel for me
(37:17):
on this campus, and so they mayhave a bit of an advantage.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I would just interject to say like sometimes
I mean, these are also typicalteenagers in many ways, right?
So it's like sometimes they'rejust like I want to go to a Big
Ten school and whatever you knowlike, and go to the sports
games and everything in between,right so I encounter families
where people have been like,really diligent and are thinking
about accessibility up front orthinking about their healthcare
(37:45):
providers, and then I encounterthe other thing where they've
put no thought into anythingrelated to their condition or
disability, but lots of thoughtinto the sports or the academics
or the program, right so, andit just it's unique to each
individual and how they'rethinking about the process.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, with or without disabilities.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty to eachindividual and how they're
thinking about the process.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah, with or without disabilities, Every, every,
every every one of them isdifferent.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
So I just in doing, in getting ready to talk to you
and doing a little bit of ofpoking around to see some things
I don't want to get into I meanwe talked about this a little
bit before we started recordingthat we could have nerdy
(38:36):
conversations and dig deep intoall of this, and most parents
don't need or want to hear that,but some of the statistics that
I saw were really interestingin that the number of things
like ADHD and learningdifferences and autism and some
of those things, the percentageof students with those kinds of
(38:58):
learning disabilities faroutweighs the percentage I mean
of of students with physicaldisabilities mobility issues,
chronic issues, brain injury,those sorts of things and so the
fact that that this populationof physical disabilities is so
(39:20):
small, um, and I'm not surewhere my question is but how
does that impact students'experience?
What should they be ready for?
The fact that I mean youmentioned the percentage, you
know, 20% and that feels likewow, 20%, that's a lot, but it
(39:42):
really isn't.
And so what can they anticipateabout their experience when
they're in such a small minority?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, I think the fact is, like you said, that
most of the students who arerequesting accommodations in
college have learningdisabilities.
Add, autism, mental healthconditions is like the next
highest request foraccommodations.
You're totally right in sayingthat students with physical
(40:13):
disabilities are a smaller partof the population I think it's
six or seven percent and so Iwould say that sometimes that
means that people on theuniversity side, on the
disability support office side,may have less experience sort of
helping a student navigate theaccommodations request process.
(40:35):
Most students that I talk tothink that there's like a menu
of accommodations or somethingthat they'll get to choose from
or, like you know, they expectthat the people in the
university will sort of knowwhat that they're going to need,
when in fact the university isoftentimes relying on the
student to say this is what Ineed and these are the
(40:57):
accommodations that I'mrequesting.
My preparation with studentswho have physical disabilities
and chronic health conditions ishelp them think through what
those accommodation requests aregoing to be, so that they have
a list sort of prepared, so thatwhen they're going into those
conversations it goes a littlebit easier.
(41:18):
I would also say that sometimesit means too that, like that,
many professors might sort oflump students together because
as a professor, vicki, you'vebeen on the other side of that
desk or in front of thatchalkboard.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Chalkboard.
You just dated yourself.
I am an old lady.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Whiteboard, promethean board or whatever
whiteboard, a Promethean boardor whatever.
So you know, professors get anaccommodation letter that states
what accommodations the studenthas been approved for.
It doesn't tell the professorwhat the student's condition or
conditions are right.
And so I think sometimesprofessors get a lot of
(42:04):
accommodation letters,especially if you're in a larger
state school where you mighthave, you know, 200 students in
your class.
If you're figuring, 20% ofthose have accommodations or
needing them.
So you're getting a bunch ofaccommodation letters coming in.
You're thinking most of thosestudents likely have learning
disabilities.
That's just how it kind of.
You're just like, oh it's awash of this, right, when in
(42:27):
fact someone might haveEhlers-Danlos Syndrome or a
condition that has unpredictableflares, right, so they might
have you know anything reallyepilepsy, diabetes, something
that needs to be monitored.
So you know it's reallyimportant that they've actually
(43:15):
had a conversation with theprofessor about what that's
going to look like in that class, right, and what the
expectations are, so everybody'son the same page.
So for a lot of students that'slike a little bit of extra work
.
In the disability community weoften talk about like fatigue,
of having to just keep talkingabout your needs and keep
(43:38):
requesting things, but it is areality, especially in the
college context, for studentswho have to constantly remind
people.
This is my accommodation, thisis what I need, these are the
things that I have, and that'sjust.
It's something that I helpstudents sort of prepare for.
You know, oftentimes we willmake canned emails so that they
have them ready to go, so thatthey can just hit, send, copy,
(44:01):
cut and send.
But that's something thatstudents really need to be
prepared for.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So it really strikes me.
I mean, you talk a lot about,you know, this is what I work
with students to do and forstudents who may not be working
with you, for parents to whatI'm hearing as you're describing
all of that is the ability toself-advocate, and so parents
(44:34):
can really work with theirstudents on identifying that
list and then understanding howto self-advocate, because I
think sometimes that's hard forstudents.
They feel as though they're youknow they're being a pain or
they're you know they don't knowhow to express.
This is this is what I need andthis is why I need it.
(44:54):
So, yeah, and shameless plug.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Yeah, shameless plug.
I do have an online coursepreparing students with physical
disabilities and healthconditions for college, and a
lot of times I'll have parentsand students take it together.
So it's like they get theunderstanding of the laws, they
get the understanding of how tocreate their list of
accommodations, questions to ask, thinking about independent
living, continuity of care,preparing for medication
(45:19):
management all of that is inthere.
But more generally, it's likestudents can start to work on
that and parents can start tolengthen the leash a little bit,
right?
So, like during a 504 planmeeting in high school, having
conversations there, letting thestudent lead, letting the
student read their IEP.
If they have an IEP, thestudent has a neuropsych
evaluation.
Have they read it?
(45:39):
Do they know what's in there?
Like, do they know what theirdoctors are writing about them?
Because, whether or not parentslike it, like the student is
going to have to be well-versedon their, on their condition,
and like part of that, I think,is actually knowing, like what
the quote unquote professionalshave said about us.
Right, like so.
So if we don't know what's inthose things like, it's hard
(46:02):
when the person on the otherside of the desk has already
read all this information aboutyou, very personal information
you should know what informationthat you've submitted right.
So, like those are like littlethings that students can start
to do and start to digest,really too.
Because you know, I'm all Iremember sitting, you know, at
(46:23):
Georgetown in the disabilitysupport office there reading
documentation, and then askingthe student and they're like,
wait, it says what in there?
And I'm like I don't, didn'tyou read it?
It's about you.
Here you go, Read what thisperson said about you, you know,
and they're like, oh well, yeah, I guess it is kind of like
that and so, yeah, so I wouldsay that that, like you know,
(46:53):
parents can start working withstudents on thinking about these
things early on, starting toboost those independent living
skills too.
So, like, medication managementis a classic one.
Whether you have ADD orepilepsy, you know the student's
going to need to figure out howare they getting their
medication.
You know how are they?
Are they putting it in in pillpacks?
Are they using a remindersystem?
How are they doing that?
And the best time to start isbefore they get to school or
(47:16):
they go to college.
You know, start today, um, inhigh school, where they're still
in a supported environment, sothat you know if, if the, if the
wheels come off, they're stillat home and it's not all going
to fall apart, but we need tostart working on those skills
because I've always blown awayat how many students really have
no idea, have never refilled aprescription, don't even know
(47:38):
their doctor's name or how tomake that phone call?
Yeah, no idea.
So those are like the adultingskills that people can work on.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
And that's true for all students.
Disabilities are not thosedaily living things.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah.
So, annie, we could talk allday, okay, because there's lots
of good stuff here and I thinkyou've given parents quite a bit
to think about, which isfabulous, and I think you've
given parents quite a bit tothink about which is fabulous.
One of the questions we alwaysask folks that we interview at
the end is if you we're askingif you have any books you could
(48:18):
recommend.
We're, vicki and I are bothreaders and you know.
Are there any things you couldrecommend for either parents or
students?
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Mm-hmm.
Are there any?
Speaker 4 (48:28):
things you could recommend for either parents or
students.
I have lots of books that I amreading, but one right now, and
some are academic and somearen't.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I read some romance novels as well personally, I
like mysteries.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
We can talk about those later.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
But the one book that I think is like really, really
important is being Human.
It's called being Human anUnrepentant Memoir of a
Disability Rights Activist, andit's by Judy Heumann.
And Judy Heumann passed awayabout two years ago and Judy
(49:13):
Heumann was a disability rightsactivist in the United States
who was pivotal in passingSection 504 and passing the ADA,
and she had polio as a kid andwas a wheelchair user and she
was also an internationaldisability rights activist as
well, and it's a great book.
And if you're not into readingbooks because some people aren't
I would recommend thedocumentary Crip Camp.
(49:38):
It's C-R-I-P-C-A-M-P Crip Campand you can watch it on Netflix.
It was a documentary that cameout a few years ago and was
nominated for a bunch of awardsand it was on Judy Heumannann is
featured in it and it was on acamp that was in upstate New
York for young adults withdisabilities and how they used
that camp as a catalyst forpassing section 504 and then
passing subsequently theAmericans with Disabilities Act,
(50:01):
and it's just.
It has like old footage fromthe camp and all these people
who went to the camp and howthis camp impacted them, and
it's an amazing documentary.
So Netflix you can also find iton YouTube too.
You can watch it there as well.
So those are my recommendations.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Fabulous.
I'm thrilled.
I can't wait to find both ofthose.
I haven't, so thank you, thankyou.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
So you're going to give us all kinds of information
to put into the show notes, butvery quickly.
If parents wanted to learn more, wanted to reach out, what
would be the best way for themto follow this up?
Speaker 4 (50:40):
Sure, they can find me on my website, which is
accessiblecollegecom.
I'm also on Instagram atAccessible College.
I'm on Facebook at AccessibleCollege.
I also have a Facebook groupwith two independent college
consultants.
The group is called CollegeSuccess Physical Disabilities,
chronic Health and Mental Health, and we'll put a link in the
(51:02):
show notes.
It's a great group.
It's open for anybody who'sinterested in learning more
about students with physicaldisabilities, health conditions,
mental health conditions andgoing to college.
Yeah, so we'll put all of that,those contacts, in the show
notes.
Yep, great.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Thank you so much for spending time with us and
sharing so much information withus and sharing so much
information and as we have theseconversations about
disabilities, we've had quite afew about learning disabilities,
and so this is really nice tolook at this, but I'm always
struck, as someone who's not inthat world, how much of the
(51:44):
advice holds for any parent, anystudent.
If you just listen, there's somuch that everybody can pull
from this.
So thank you so much for takingus into the physical disability
world.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
Yeah, thank you both for having me.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
And thank you to everyone for joining us and
we'll see you next time.
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