July 16, 2025 • 47 mins
The topic of college roommates looms large for many students and parents. It is common for students to feel anxious as many anticipate sharing a living space with a stranger for the first time. But with careful preparation, attention to communication, and an openness to new experiences, students can create a positive relationship with their roommate. In this episode, Vicki and Lynn discuss the important skills required and lessons learned from the work of building this important relationship.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Join your hosts Vicki Nelson and I am a professor of
(00:56):
communication and formerdirector of academic advising,
and I am here with my colleague,my name is Lynn Abrahams and I
am a learning disabilityspecialist at a small liberal
arts college.
And we are both parents ofstudents who have come and gone
(01:19):
through the college system, sowe have experience both as
professionals and as parents,and it's the merging of those
two things that we bring to thispodcast.
And today we'd like to talk alittle bit about something that
is of great concern to manystudents and to their parents,
(01:43):
and that is the idea ofroommates and living together
with another individual.
In this small space as we arerecording this particular
podcast, what's going to happenin the fall is still very much
up in the air.
We don't know what to expect.
We are in the middle of thisCOVID-19 pandemic and many
(02:09):
schools are trying to decidewhat is going to happen in the
fall.
Actually, we're recording thisa little bit ahead of when you
may be hearing it, so by thetime this podcast comes out, you
may already know that school isgoing to be happening as usual
in the fall or that school willbe online.
(02:31):
But whatever happens whether itis this fall or it is some
later fall or it is in thespring the issue of roommates
looms large for many studentsand for their parents.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You know, vicki, I also think this is an important
topic whether students are goingto be on campus or not in the
fall, because this is part ofwhat development looks like in
the college years.
You know, college is not justabout academics.
It's about students learninghow to live in the world,
(03:09):
learning how to live with otherpeople, and the roommate
situation is only a piece ofthat, and that will be happening
no matter what.
You know whether students areon campus or not.
This is a really important partof the college.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know years, ability and more to do with life
getting in the way and figuringout how to manage everything,
(03:47):
from managing their time tomanaging their emotions, to
dealing with a roommate,absolutely.
So.
It is a big issue that lays thefoundation for so much of what
else is going to happen.
So the first thing, that a lotof students and their parents
(04:08):
and because this is somethingthat we all worry about I
remember when my daughters and Ihave the girls, you have the
boys, but I remember when mydaughters all went to college,
you know, very anxious to findout who their roommate was going
to be and how that was going tofind out who their roommate was
(04:28):
going to be and how that wasgoing.
So the first issue that comesup is that idea of a roommate
match who is going to be theroommate?
And many students, I think,have a somewhat idealized vision
of their roommate relationship.
It may be a little bit the waymany of us felt prior to getting
(04:50):
married, that we had thisidealized vision of what married
life was going to be like andsometimes found out it took more
work than we realized.
So students aren't sure what toexpect.
It's exciting I think many arevery much looking forward to
(05:12):
this roommate relationship butit also is terrifying at the
same time, and especiallybecause so many of the students
going to college today haveprobably never shared a room
with another person, or abathroom in some cases and
(05:35):
remembering that it's not onlyme not having shared the room,
but the person my roommate maynot ever have shared a room
either.
Even if I have, they may not,and especially when that room
that we're sharing is not onlyour bedroom but also our living
room and sometimes our kitchenand our family room or
(05:56):
recreation room where we watchTV and movies, and our life
really centers around this room,even if there are lounges and
other places.
So it's a big deal, and itstarts with who is that person
going to be?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So the way it usually works is there are two
different ways it happens.
One is that students willchoose a roommate and another is
that they are randomly put in aroommate situation.
So I just want to.
I think we should talk a littlebit about both of these.
When students choose their ownroommate, it may be that they
(06:37):
have a friend from high schoolwho they know is going to the
same college.
It might be that they meetsomebody during a summer
orientation, or they might meetsomebody on Facebook and click.
I know at our college we don'tusually allow a matching like
(06:59):
that unless both studentsrequest it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right, that's probably fairly common.
I think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
So you know, that way .
You know, we know that bothstudents want it.
You know one thing, you knowsometimes those are situations
that work out really well andsometimes, sometimes, it's
actually better not to have bestfriends, be such close friends
with your roommate.
(07:27):
So you know, I've seen allkinds of situations and some
work and some don't.
But when you choose, it cansometimes be great because
you're similar, or you mightassume you're similar when
you're not, and it couldpossibly run into some trouble.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I know I have some very good friends, people I
would consider my best friends,that I wouldn't want to live
with.
Yeah, that is true, it's adifferent thing my friends and
somebody that I'm going to besharing a room with or an
apartment with, or somethinglike that.
I have different needs fromboth of those, so thinking about
(08:13):
that, but I think it really isa temptation for students to say
I know you, we went to the samehigh school, let's be roommates
, because it gives you somecertainty of knowing who that
person is going to be Right.
Yeah, and there's a lot.
There is a lot that happens, Ithink, on Facebook and online.
(08:34):
I know that a lot of schoolsestablish a Facebook page for
incoming students, which iswonderful.
It's a way to get to meet someother people who are going to be
in your classes and get to know, and people ask questions and
people share information.
And again, it's a temptation tojust quickly grab someone that
(08:57):
you've met there Could work outwonderfully or not.
So, being careful it's not tosay don't choose a roommate
Right, but do be careful.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I've seen this rhythm that's happened many times
where students go through somekind of shift by mid-first
semester where, all of a sudden,the people that felt safe may
not be the people they reallywant to spend their time with.
So there's usually some changesthat occur.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Right and that happens with friends,
friendships as well as roommatethings and then realizing at
that point too that yourroommate doesn't need to be your
best friend, your roommate justneeds to be someone that you
can live with.
Yeah, so choosing can be goodor not.
(09:53):
But then the other method iswhat they sort of call the
random method.
But it really isn't randommethod.
But it really isn't random.
Random just means you wait andsee who the college is going to
assign to you to be a roommate,and it is possible at some
schools that it is truly random,that they just take all the
(10:17):
names of everybody coming in andthrow them in a big pot and
pick out pears.
But I think that is much lessoften the case these days.
But allowing the college tomake your roommate assignment is
the second way to go, and Ithink what happens at so many
(10:38):
schools is students will receivesome kind of lifestyle
questionnaire that they're askedto fill out, and it is the
information in thatquestionnaire that colleges use
to match roommates, andsometimes it's done by computer.
Certainly at larger schoolsthat would probably be the only
(10:58):
way they could do it, or at somesmaller schools it is still
done very hands-on and lookingand matching qualities and
lifestyle qualities, which isthe important thing.
Those questionnaires mightinclude a lot of different
questions, things like do youlike to get up early in the
(11:20):
morning or are you an early birdor a night owl?
In that way, are you neat orare you sloppy?
Are you a smoker?
Do you sleep with a window openor do you like the window
closed?
Do you study with music on ordo you need absolute silence?
What are your party habits?
Some of those kinds ofquestions.
(11:43):
And I think two things arereally important if students get
this kind of questionnaire andthey're sitting down to answer
this questionnaire.
And the first thing is thatstudents need to be absolutely
honest.
I think often students are somuch in the mode of applying to
(12:03):
colleges and saying the thingsthat are going to shine a good
light on them that there mightbe the temptation well, I don't
want to say I'm sloppy, I shouldsay I'm neat and I should say I
study all the time and that Iget up early in the morning and
that I'm a go-getter and all.
But if that's not true, it'sreally important that they
(12:27):
answer those questions honestly,because that's the basis on
which the roommate match isgoing to be made, that it not be
being aspirational.
You know I aspire to be anearly riser.
I've had that aspirationforever.
(12:48):
You know I'm going to get up atfive in the morning and
exercise and go for a run beforemy family gets up.
I've never done it.
So really answering honestly.
And the second thing is thatparents need to stay out of this
process.
The second thing is thatparents need to stay out of this
process.
Parents need to not fill outthe questionnaire for their
(13:09):
student of what they hope theirstudent is going to be, and
parents need to not ask to seethe questionnaire before they
send it, because the studentneeds to be able to answer
honestly and not answer somethings because they know their
parent is going to look at it.
So if you're going to allow thecollege to make the match and
(13:31):
they've sent some sort ofquestionnaire, do it honestly.
Parents stay out of it and justask you know, have you done
this thing?
You ought to send it in and gofrom there.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So, Vicki, not to get off track here, but have you
ever seen have you ever seen?
There's an old, old, old movieHarold and Maude.
I don't know if you've everseen it.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I remember it.
I mean, I remember having seenit, but I don't remember Really
old.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
But there is a scene where the son gets the
questionnaire from a college andthe mom is filling it out and
asking him questions and askinghim to answer them while she
checks it and then all of asudden it shifts to her
answering every single question.
It is hilarious.
It is a really funny scene.
We'll have to go back and findout.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Of course you know we're dating ourselves by saying
that I know, I know, rememberthis movie, but that's exactly
the issue.
It really needs to be thestudent and this may be one of.
(14:42):
Will we know?
I know that you know.
When I do some work in thesummer, or when I was in the
advising office, which was verybusy all summer long, we would
get lots of questions fromstudents.
Do you know when they're goingto tell us?
Do you know when we're going toget our roommate assignments?
And I think it's often notuntil at least mid-July and
(15:04):
sometimes even later in July.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, it's later than you usually want.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, later than you would like, because they're very
anxious, because this is a bigdeal.
But the college wants to waituntil they've gotten these forms
from everyone, because if theystart doing it too early,
there's no such thing as aperfect roommate, but that
perfect roommate may just nothave submitted the form yet.
(15:29):
So they really need to waituntil they get all of this
information from most of thestudents coming in and then do
it.
So it's probably going to beJuly or late July before here
(15:50):
late July, before here.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So I would suggest that during the summer is before
this happens is a really goodtime to have some conversations
with your students about how toprepare for this situation, and
it's really good to talk throughwhat it may be like to have a
roommate.
One of the things you mention alot is not only thinking about
(16:13):
the worst roommate in the worldthat you're going to have to
live with, but thinking abouthow you can be a good roommate.
But thinking about how you canbe a good roommate, you know not
just how the other person willbe a terrible roommate not all
that assumption but how you canbe a good roommate.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
And it's good to have conversations, you know, in the
summer.
Yeah, what does a good roommatelook?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
like, look like.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, and how does that behave?
Because it is true thatstudents often assume one
extreme or the other.
Either it's going to be thisidealized, perfect, we're going
to be best friends and we'regoing to get along all the time,
or I'm going to have theroommate from hell.
It's going to be just awful.
(17:02):
I know it's going to beterrible and not thinking about,
I don't want to be thatroommate, I want to be the good
roommate.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Right.
So thinking about this in termsof, you know, thinking about it
realistically, no relationshipis perfect.
There will be some conflict inevery relationship.
There will be some conflict inevery relationship, there will
be some difficult moments.
But to even think through anddo some role playing, what would
(17:32):
you do in this situation?
What would you do in thissituation?
So the summer before is just aperfect time to do some of that.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, and really talking to your student too,
about being open and willing toexpand your horizons a little
bit, that you don't have to havea roommate.
That's a lot like you.
Having someone who's verydifferent is again part of the
college experience of exposingyourselves to new things and
(18:06):
learning about that.
And and deciding on what areyour non-negotiables, what are
the things that this is thebottom line for me.
I'm willing to give in, I'mwilling to compromise, I'm
willing to adjust, I'm willingto be flexible about a lot of
(18:29):
things, but are there and thefewer the better, because if you
have a list of 20non-negotiables, that's going to
be hard for anyone to live upto.
But are there one or two thingsthat you just say this is
really important for me, andwhether that's I absolutely know
(18:52):
I can't, absolutely no, I can'tstudy if there is a TV on in
the room or I.
You know, my non-negotiable isI don't want my roommate's
girlfriend or boyfriend sleepingovernight in our room, yep, or
(19:12):
whatever.
So really thinking ahead oftime so that that can be
addressed perhaps a little bit,and thinking about how to bring
things up Parents can talk tostudents about.
Well, how are you going tobring it up?
How are you going to talk toyour roommate if there's an
issue?
So thinking a little bit abouthow to make it work.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
So thinking a little bit about how to make it work.
Yeah, I do remember workingwith a student.
This was a couple years ago.
And she got into some troublebecause she and her roommates
were really loud at night.
And when I was asking her howit happened, how did she find
(19:58):
out that she was getting introuble?
She did tell me that she couldhear her next door neighbor
through the wall.
It's a very thin small wall.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It must have been.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But she heard her roommate calling her mother in
the middle of the night, sayingmy roommates are being too loud.
So so the next door neighbordidn't even come up to her and
say you're being too loud.
She called her mom.
And that really struck mebecause it made me realize how
(20:30):
inexperienced many of ourstudents are in dealing with a
problem, and the first urgemight be to call parents, to
call their parents.
But you know, it's really goodto think through how they would
approach a student and saysomething that's very common,
which is could you just tone itdown a little at night?
(20:52):
You know, be a little, you knowless loud.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And what a good opportunity for the parent on
the other end of that phone callfrom the student to say, okay,
you know, now it's time for meto be able to do a little
coaching and say to my studentokay, have you tried going over
and nicely knocking on the doorand saying I'm trying to study,
(21:20):
it's really hard and it's late,Could we, you know, not going
and being irate, but you know,or have you tried if the next
step, if you've tried that thenext step, might be going to
your resident assistant andasking for some help there?
What have you tried?
Here are some ideas, Ratherthan the parent buying into the
(21:47):
student's concern and saying,okay, I'm going to call Res Life
and we're going to get youmoved and all of that.
So it's a perfect opportunityto help students.
I think you are absolutelyright, though Students have
great difficulty bringing thetopic up or confronting
something, consulting withsomeone, Don't even want to
(22:10):
think about it as confronting.
But how to talk to each otherabout a problem like that?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And this is a good opportunity for parents to
support their students withoutjumping in and fixing it Right,
Because it really doesn't helpin the long run.
Teach our students how to copewith conflict.
If we call residence life, Imean it did Right we call
residence life.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I mean so, hopefully, one of the things that's
happened in July, when studentsfind out who their roommate is,
is that they have then contactedeach other and had some
opportunity to talk on the phoneor to FaceTime or to email or
to text or whatever it is thatstudents are currently doing
these days to be in touch witheach other and do some, you know
(22:59):
, getting to know each other anddeciding perhaps you bring the
fridge and I'll bring, you know,the TV, or you know doing some
of that so that they'veestablished a relationship a
little bit over the summer.
But then it all really beginson move-in day.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So move-in day is a really interesting day.
It's usually a hard day forboth parents and students, but I
do think move-in day is a goodtime to set the tone of the new
relationship which is reallybetween the two students who are
moving in two or three orhowever many.
(23:38):
So I do think it's importantyou know that, if your kids are
the first kids there, to maybewait until the roommate comes
before you choose your bed anddress or set up the room,
because it is something that theroommates need to do together.
Yeah, and I think as parents,again, our role is to support
(24:04):
and be on the side, to coach.
And so we might want to justsort of gently remind students
that I know that I know you andI, vicki, have talked about some
of the things that we need todo as parents.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I think move-in day is going to be its own podcast.
We have plenty to talk about onmove-in day.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I think it's a hard way.
I really do so.
I do think it's a good time forparents to step out, though,
and to go for a walk while yourkids are, while the new students
are, are figuring out the roomand how they're going to set
things up.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I do know I have to say I had to make the bed for so
did I, so did I and I told, andI also told them how to arrange
their room, which Isubsequently learned they
completely undid the minute Iwas out the gate, so it really
didn't matter.
But that's another thing.
But maybe if you take half anhour and go for a little walk
(25:12):
and go get a cup of coffee andmaybe even invite the roommate's
parents to come with you sothat they can get out too, and
it gives you a chance to get toknow your child's roommate's
parents a little bit, but alsogive the kids a little bit of
time on their own.
And then the real work ofestablishing the relationship.
(25:34):
You know, once the parents leaveat the end of moving day, the
real work happens and you know,sometimes, I think, there's
either a honeymoon or not period.
That happens Either everythingis perfect with roommates as
you're settling in or thingsfeel off right away and
(25:57):
recognizing that that's notnormal.
Yet you have no routine, yetYou're not going to classes, yet
You're really just getting toknow the other person.
And it's going to take time andit's going to take work.
And I think the work of makingrelationship work is something
(26:18):
that students oftenunderestimate.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I think some schools will suggest that students set
up a contract with their newroommate, and I think it's
(26:48):
actually a really good idea evenif the school doesn't suggest
that to come up with some kindof contract, general, you know,
not too specific, but just someof the general rules, like a few
of those non-negotiables.
The important thing is to starta conversation about what is
this going to be like, what arewe going to do if we don't get
along, you know.
Start a conversation, yeah,about what is this going to be
like, what are we going to do ifwe don't get along.
What you know, you know.
Start a conversation yeah, very, very.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Who's going to take out the trash?
Who's going to um, you know todo, how often are we going to
clean the room?
Uh, you know, you're just goingto keep your mess on your side
and I'll keep my neat on my side, or or whatever, but if you
have and yeah, the conversationis really the important thing-
(27:23):
and to put a sort of a positivetwist on it too, to to just to
begin this new relationship withsome humor and some like.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Here we are in this together.
Uh, we still have a positiveapproach.
Is is good and and it's asparents, it's our job to remind
our kids to do that.
They are really nervous aboutthis.
Yeah, this roommate situationis really stressful for them, or
for many of our students, andso it's up to us to kind of help
(27:53):
, you know, help steer ittowards some kind of positive.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
And that can happen on move-in day, but also in
those phone calls that are goingto happen over the next few
days and weeks and just sort ofchecking in how are things going
with your roommate?
And are you doing all of thosegood communication skills I mean
, we come back down toconversation so much of the time
(28:20):
Are you really consciouslythinking about using some of
those skills and I know I'm acommunication professor so I
keep coming back to this, but itreally is so vitally important
Are you really listening whenyour roommate is telling you
something or asking yousomething and not assuming that
(28:42):
you know what it is that they'regoing to say?
And are you being direct?
Sometimes students work to goaround the real issue when
really what you need to say isreally what you're thinking.
Are you communicating directlyand early and often and keeping
those and honestly not leaving alittle nasty note on their
(29:05):
computer or not postingsomething on Facebook that
they're going to see?
But if you're having an issue,just get it out there and really
talk about it, thinking aboutthe tone in which you do it and
trying to find ways that you canwork together to see if you can
find a solution.
And working that way andthinking about compromise and
(29:28):
collaboration, and I want totalk a little more about that in
a little bit, but you knowreally thinking about the skills
.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, and I do think the bottom line is you know, no
matter what's going on betweenroommates, there has to be a
general level of respect foreach other.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, um, because you're both in this together, so
no matter what's going on,whether it's really positive or
or possibly not, yeah, and, andyou can have an argument, but
still respect the other personthat you're arguing with, right.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And you know I mean conflict isn't all bad.
You know there will be someconflict and the important thing
to know is that there areresources out there to help.
(30:21):
You know there are people to goto to talk to.
You know resident assistantsare other students who are
trained to work with studentsaround these kind of issues.
They're resident directors.
There are.
You know there are resources.
You know good communication isnot is not automatically easy.
It takes some hard work and itmay take a little.
(30:41):
Take a little extra support andgood things can come out of it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It can, it can I, you know, I think we we work so
hard to protect our students andto smooth the path for them.
Those are the lawnmower parents,all these labels that get
applied to us to make it alittle easier for them, and
(31:08):
sometimes it's just going to behard work, but that good things
come out of that hard work.
So you know, I think there are anumber of lessons and we wanted
to talk a little bit about thekinds of lessons, and the first
you know I'll bang my drum againis the lessons about
communication that they learn.
They learn how to talk abouttheir problems, they learn how
(31:29):
to talk things out.
These are all skills thatthey're going to use all the way
through their lives.
They learn how to listen betterif they're working on it, and
how to talk in a way that otherpeople will listen to you, if
you're thinking about listeningskills, how to communicate
(31:49):
productively so that you knowhow to say this is what we have
to accomplish and we can talkabout that.
And how to problem solve andthink critically, which is all
part of communication.
How to state clearly andobjectively what you need and
what your bottom line is andalso just thinking about how to
(32:13):
how to create a positivecommunication climate, how to
talk about things in a way thatis generally positive, even when
their problems are negativethings, so that students can
come away with a lot of lifelessons just about communication
.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I think students come away with a lot of life lessons
in terms of values, learningabout what is important to them.
Sometimes you don't know, untilyou're in a situation like that
, what really matters, whatreally does matter.
I think it's incrediblyimportant to learn about other
people's values.
(32:51):
Other people may come fromdifferent worlds and have
different values than you have.
That is so important to learnto be able to step inside
someone else's shoes and see theworld a little bit from their
viewpoint.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And the ongoing lesson is not just realizing and
understanding that others haveperhaps significantly different
values, but how do you live withsomeone who has different
values?
Can you still manage to getalong and live together?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
And creatively solve problems, so that's incredibly,
incredibly important.
And then there are all thelessons about negotiating how to
negotiate.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, I mean that overlaps with the communication
skills, but it really is its ownsort of category that there is
a lot of negotiation that goesinto living together and what do
you need and what do I need andhow can we get there?
You know how to be flexible andnot deliver things in
(34:06):
ultimatums.
Either you do this or but thosethings never work.
So finding out ways to beflexible and finding out ways to
respond to someone else who maybe inflexible it's hard if
you're working hard to do thesethings and you get the sense
that the other person isn't.
(34:27):
So how to plan a conversation,how to approach a problem
together and to find multiplesolutions, and then how to close
the discussion when you've cometo a conclusion or you can't,
and how do you move on and howto have the kind of patience you
know.
As I was thinking about thisand I was thinking about the
(34:48):
ways students need to learn towork with each other, two things
came to mind for me.
One is um, the book that it wasvery popular a number of years
ago.
Um called getting to yes.
Um by roger fisher and williamuri, or yuri um.
(35:10):
It's getting to yes,negotiating agreement without
giving in, and um great book.
We'll link to it in the shownotes.
But you know they really hadsome basic principles that apply
, and it applies whether you'reone country negotiating with
another country or you're oneroommate negotiating with
another roommate and you knowjust very quickly and generally.
(35:35):
You know.
Principle number one wasseparate the people from the
problem.
What's the issue, and not sayyou're the problem, but there is
this issue.
The problem is the mess in thisroom.
It's not you're a slob andthat's the problem.
But we have a problem and canwe figure it out?
(35:55):
Problem and can we figure itout?
And then, focusing on what theysay is focusing on interests,
not positions, trying to putyourself in the other person's
shoes.
Why is this a problem?
What's the why behind the waythey're behaving or what they're
asking, if you're trying tocome to a conclusion and how to
(36:20):
invent options for mutual gain,how to collaborate and how to
find the win-win, which is sortof a specialized thing.
It's the other thing I wantedto talk about a little bit.
But their fourth step is insiston objective criteria, which is
basically staying on topic.
If we're talking about thisproblem, that's what we need to
(36:46):
talk about and we need to notget off topic and we need to not
get into something that was aproblem last week or something.
This is the problem we'retalking about right now.
And the fifth one that theytalk about is what they call is
know your BATNA, and that'sB-A-T-N-A and it's an
(37:06):
interesting term and it's whatis the best alternative to a
negotiated agreement.
So, essentially, if we can'twork this out, what's the
alternative?
What are the alternatives?
And sometimes that's theincentive to make it work.
The alternative is notnecessarily that the first
(37:27):
alternative is you would need tomove out or I need to move out.
What's the best alternative?
Maybe the next alternative iswe need to go talk to the RA,
the resident assistant, or weneed to make a contract or
something.
But if we can't work it out,what's going to happen?
And maybe that will help uscome to that.
(37:51):
So there's a lot.
If anybody is interested indoing a little more reading and
thinking about it, maybe talkingto your student about it the
book Getting to, yes, I thinkhas some interesting things.
And the last thing and Ipromise then I'll take my
communication professor hat offis talking a little bit about
compromise and collaboration,because we teach this in some of
(38:16):
our communication classes.
We've all been taught and Iknow I was and I know I taught
my kids that the best solutionis to find a compromise.
Right, you both want to playwith this same toy.
Okay, we need to compromise.
We're going to set a timer.
Susie gets to play with it forfive minutes and then the timer
(38:41):
will ring.
And Johnny gets to play with itfor five minutes and then the
timer will ring and Susie getsit.
And that works.
It stops the fighting.
But it's kind of a lose-losebecause you each now only get
five minutes with the toyinstead of being able to play
with it all the time.
And so compromise is good.
(39:02):
It's not a bad thing, but it'snot necessarily the best.
Better would be collaboration,and so that would be okay.
You both want to have the sametoy we could.
The lose, lose, lose is I takethe toy away and put it in the
closet.
Nobody gets to play with it.
Next step better is we set thetimer.
You get it five minutes andthey get it five minutes.
(39:24):
But can we and it takes hardwork and it takes communication,
all the things we've beentalking about Can we all sit
down and begin to think about?
Is there a game that you couldplay with the toy together?
That's collaborating.
So now it's a win-win becauseyou get 10 minutes.
(39:45):
You both get 10 minutes withthe toy.
And another way we describe itsometimes which I think helps
some students understand theprinciple is somebody's got 100
oranges to sell, you want to buythose oranges and I want to buy
those oranges.
We could outbid each other,right, we see who can pay the
(40:06):
most money and maybe you win.
You're willing to pay more, youget all 100 oranges, I get
nothing, I go away.
Or maybe I win and you getnothing and you go away.
That's not great.
Or we can compromise.
We split them.
You get 50 oranges, I get 50oranges.
Okay, we both kind of win, butwe both kind of lose because
(40:29):
neither one of us got 100.
Or we begin to talk to eachother, we begin to work together
, we begin to think about why doyou want these oranges, why do
I want these oranges?
And we discover, through somehard work, that you make orange
juice.
You need these oranges becauseyou want to squeeze them and you
want orange juice.
I, on the other hand, am makingmarmalade.
(40:52):
I need the pulp and I need therinds to make my marmalade.
So we find out that we canprobably, at a cheaper price,
buy all 100 oranges.
You can use them and then I canuse them.
That's collaboration andhelping students understand that
that's so much better than thehalf and half compromise If they
(41:13):
can get there, but how muchwork it takes to get there.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
I really like the orange analogy.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
You just like marmalade, I know.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
I like food, but I also I do like it because it
shows that if the two folksinvolved can actually listen to
each other and appreciate what'sgoing on for each other, then
they can be creative in problemsolving.
And that's difficult to do.
(41:44):
It is.
It's hard work, but it's soincredibly important.
So, again, I think these issuesthat come up around roommates
really address some of what ourstudents need to learn most
during these years.
Yes, they need to learnacademically, they need to
(42:07):
figure out their life goals,they need to figure out, you
know, jobs and just their wholeintellectual development.
But that's only one piece.
The other piece is working witheach other, living with each
other and listening and beingand creatively solving problems
(42:28):
together.
So these roommate issues arehuge and I think it's important
to talk to your kids about this.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And it feels so good when they do that, if they've
put in the work and they'veovercome an issue and they've
found that they can livetogether, it's really important.
And they don't have to be bestfriends, nope, they just need to
be able to live together it's aworking relationship, yeah, and
(43:01):
then often go off and spend allof their free time with other
people, and that's okay If theycan establish a living
relationship.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
And just a reminder to the parents who are listening
to us that our role as parentsis again on the sidelines, where
our role is to coach, is tosupport, is to step back and
maybe make some suggestions, notto fix it, um, but to step back
and support our students in inlearning these huge things, yeah
(43:33):
, and and recognizing too and Idon't want to end on a negative
note, but sometimes students doneed to change a roommate.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
There are times when, in spite of all of the things
we've just talked about, theyneed to separate, and that might
be part of the lesson learnedtoo they need to separate, and
that might be part of the lessonlearned too, that sometimes
that's a reality too, and youknow students need to take care
of themselves by changingroommates.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
That is part of could be a lesson learned too.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But it's not a first resort Never If you've tried
these other things.
So the wonderful adventurebegins and we all hope, hope,
(44:41):
hope, that spring or whether itis the following fall Hopefully,
the principles aren't going tochange, no matter when it
happens, and so we hope thatsome of this information is
helpful to parents, and ifyou're thinking that you would
like to hear more of the kindsof things we talk about, please
(45:03):
subscribe to the podcast.
Wherever you like to listen topodcasts we're out there on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify orStitcher Overcast just about
anywhere that you usually listento podcasts Please find us and
subscribe, and then you can geteach podcast as we release it.
(45:23):
And if you can think of otherswho might find these kinds of
conversations helpful, the bestthing you can do for us is to
share it.
Share the podcast with otherpeople and let them start
finding it, and you know, if youthink it would be helpful and
your child's college has aparent office, maybe make sure
(45:46):
they know about this and theymight like to share it with
other parents as well.
Visit the College Parent Centralwebsite for our show notes.
You can find those atcollegeparentcentralcom.
Forward slash podcast and wewill list the book we talked
about today and sometimes someother links of things that might
(46:08):
be helpful.
Feel free to leave us a commentthere.
We'd love to hear your comments, or send us an email at podcast
at collegeparentcentralcom.
So we'd love to hear from youone way or another.
Let us know what other topicsyou'd like to hear, and we hope
you will join us next time.
So until then, stay well.
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Join your hosts Vicki Nelson and I am a professor of
(00:56):
communication and formerdirector of academic advising,
and I am here with my colleague,my name is Lynn Abrahams and I
am a learning disabilityspecialist at a small liberal
arts college.
And we are both parents ofstudents who have come and gone
(01:19):
through the college system, sowe have experience both as
professionals and as parents,and it's the merging of those
two things that we bring to thispodcast.
And today we'd like to talk alittle bit about something that
is of great concern to manystudents and to their parents,
(01:43):
and that is the idea ofroommates and living together
with another individual.
In this small space as we arerecording this particular
podcast, what's going to happenin the fall is still very much
up in the air.
We don't know what to expect.
We are in the middle of thisCOVID-19 pandemic and many
(02:09):
schools are trying to decidewhat is going to happen in the
fall.
Actually, we're recording thisa little bit ahead of when you
may be hearing it, so by thetime this podcast comes out, you
may already know that school isgoing to be happening as usual
in the fall or that school willbe online.
(02:31):
But whatever happens whether itis this fall or it is some
later fall or it is in thespring the issue of roommates
looms large for many studentsand for their parents.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You know, vicki, I also think this is an important
topic whether students are goingto be on campus or not in the
fall, because this is part ofwhat development looks like in
the college years.
You know, college is not justabout academics.
It's about students learninghow to live in the world,
(03:09):
learning how to live with otherpeople, and the roommate
situation is only a piece ofthat, and that will be happening
no matter what.
You know whether students areon campus or not.
This is a really important partof the college.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know years, ability and more to do with life
getting in the way and figuringout how to manage everything,
(03:47):
from managing their time tomanaging their emotions, to
dealing with a roommate,absolutely.
So.
It is a big issue that lays thefoundation for so much of what
else is going to happen.
So the first thing, that a lotof students and their parents
(04:08):
and because this is somethingthat we all worry about I
remember when my daughters and Ihave the girls, you have the
boys, but I remember when mydaughters all went to college,
you know, very anxious to findout who their roommate was going
to be and how that was going tofind out who their roommate was
(04:28):
going to be and how that wasgoing.
So the first issue that comesup is that idea of a roommate
match who is going to be theroommate?
And many students, I think,have a somewhat idealized vision
of their roommate relationship.
It may be a little bit the waymany of us felt prior to getting
(04:50):
married, that we had thisidealized vision of what married
life was going to be like andsometimes found out it took more
work than we realized.
So students aren't sure what toexpect.
It's exciting I think many arevery much looking forward to
(05:12):
this roommate relationship butit also is terrifying at the
same time, and especiallybecause so many of the students
going to college today haveprobably never shared a room
with another person, or abathroom in some cases and
(05:35):
remembering that it's not onlyme not having shared the room,
but the person my roommate maynot ever have shared a room
either.
Even if I have, they may not,and especially when that room
that we're sharing is not onlyour bedroom but also our living
room and sometimes our kitchenand our family room or
(05:56):
recreation room where we watchTV and movies, and our life
really centers around this room,even if there are lounges and
other places.
So it's a big deal, and itstarts with who is that person
going to be?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So the way it usually works is there are two
different ways it happens.
One is that students willchoose a roommate and another is
that they are randomly put in aroommate situation.
So I just want to.
I think we should talk a littlebit about both of these.
When students choose their ownroommate, it may be that they
(06:37):
have a friend from high schoolwho they know is going to the
same college.
It might be that they meetsomebody during a summer
orientation, or they might meetsomebody on Facebook and click.
I know at our college we don'tusually allow a matching like
(06:59):
that unless both studentsrequest it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right, that's probably fairly common.
I think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
So you know, that way .
You know, we know that bothstudents want it.
You know one thing, you knowsometimes those are situations
that work out really well andsometimes, sometimes, it's
actually better not to have bestfriends, be such close friends
with your roommate.
(07:27):
So you know, I've seen allkinds of situations and some
work and some don't.
But when you choose, it cansometimes be great because
you're similar, or you mightassume you're similar when
you're not, and it couldpossibly run into some trouble.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I know I have some very good friends, people I
would consider my best friends,that I wouldn't want to live
with.
Yeah, that is true, it's adifferent thing my friends and
somebody that I'm going to besharing a room with or an
apartment with, or somethinglike that.
I have different needs fromboth of those, so thinking about
(08:13):
that, but I think it really isa temptation for students to say
I know you, we went to the samehigh school, let's be roommates
, because it gives you somecertainty of knowing who that
person is going to be Right.
Yeah, and there's a lot.
There is a lot that happens, Ithink, on Facebook and online.
(08:34):
I know that a lot of schoolsestablish a Facebook page for
incoming students, which iswonderful.
It's a way to get to meet someother people who are going to be
in your classes and get to know, and people ask questions and
people share information.
And again, it's a temptation tojust quickly grab someone that
(08:57):
you've met there Could work outwonderfully or not.
So, being careful it's not tosay don't choose a roommate
Right, but do be careful.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I've seen this rhythm that's happened many times
where students go through somekind of shift by mid-first
semester where, all of a sudden,the people that felt safe may
not be the people they reallywant to spend their time with.
So there's usually some changesthat occur.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Right and that happens with friends,
friendships as well as roommatethings and then realizing at
that point too that yourroommate doesn't need to be your
best friend, your roommate justneeds to be someone that you
can live with.
Yeah, so choosing can be goodor not.
(09:53):
But then the other method iswhat they sort of call the
random method.
But it really isn't randommethod.
But it really isn't random.
Random just means you wait andsee who the college is going to
assign to you to be a roommate,and it is possible at some
schools that it is truly random,that they just take all the
(10:17):
names of everybody coming in andthrow them in a big pot and
pick out pears.
But I think that is much lessoften the case these days.
But allowing the college tomake your roommate assignment is
the second way to go, and Ithink what happens at so many
(10:38):
schools is students will receivesome kind of lifestyle
questionnaire that they're askedto fill out, and it is the
information in thatquestionnaire that colleges use
to match roommates, andsometimes it's done by computer.
Certainly at larger schoolsthat would probably be the only
(10:58):
way they could do it, or at somesmaller schools it is still
done very hands-on and lookingand matching qualities and
lifestyle qualities, which isthe important thing.
Those questionnaires mightinclude a lot of different
questions, things like do youlike to get up early in the
(11:20):
morning or are you an early birdor a night owl?
In that way, are you neat orare you sloppy?
Are you a smoker?
Do you sleep with a window openor do you like the window
closed?
Do you study with music on ordo you need absolute silence?
What are your party habits?
Some of those kinds ofquestions.
(11:43):
And I think two things arereally important if students get
this kind of questionnaire andthey're sitting down to answer
this questionnaire.
And the first thing is thatstudents need to be absolutely
honest.
I think often students are somuch in the mode of applying to
(12:03):
colleges and saying the thingsthat are going to shine a good
light on them that there mightbe the temptation well, I don't
want to say I'm sloppy, I shouldsay I'm neat and I should say I
study all the time and that Iget up early in the morning and
that I'm a go-getter and all.
But if that's not true, it'sreally important that they
(12:27):
answer those questions honestly,because that's the basis on
which the roommate match isgoing to be made, that it not be
being aspirational.
You know I aspire to be anearly riser.
I've had that aspirationforever.
(12:48):
You know I'm going to get up atfive in the morning and
exercise and go for a run beforemy family gets up.
I've never done it.
So really answering honestly.
And the second thing is thatparents need to stay out of this
process.
The second thing is thatparents need to stay out of this
process.
Parents need to not fill outthe questionnaire for their
(13:09):
student of what they hope theirstudent is going to be, and
parents need to not ask to seethe questionnaire before they
send it, because the studentneeds to be able to answer
honestly and not answer somethings because they know their
parent is going to look at it.
So if you're going to allow thecollege to make the match and
(13:31):
they've sent some sort ofquestionnaire, do it honestly.
Parents stay out of it and justask you know, have you done
this thing?
You ought to send it in and gofrom there.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So, Vicki, not to get off track here, but have you
ever seen have you ever seen?
There's an old, old, old movieHarold and Maude.
I don't know if you've everseen it.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I remember it.
I mean, I remember having seenit, but I don't remember Really
old.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
But there is a scene where the son gets the
questionnaire from a college andthe mom is filling it out and
asking him questions and askinghim to answer them while she
checks it and then all of asudden it shifts to her
answering every single question.
It is hilarious.
It is a really funny scene.
We'll have to go back and findout.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Of course you know we're dating ourselves by saying
that I know, I know, rememberthis movie, but that's exactly
the issue.
It really needs to be thestudent and this may be one of.
(14:42):
Will we know?
I know that you know.
When I do some work in thesummer, or when I was in the
advising office, which was verybusy all summer long, we would
get lots of questions fromstudents.
Do you know when they're goingto tell us?
Do you know when we're going toget our roommate assignments?
And I think it's often notuntil at least mid-July and
(15:04):
sometimes even later in July.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, it's later than you usually want.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, later than you would like, because they're very
anxious, because this is a bigdeal.
But the college wants to waituntil they've gotten these forms
from everyone, because if theystart doing it too early,
there's no such thing as aperfect roommate, but that
perfect roommate may just nothave submitted the form yet.
(15:29):
So they really need to waituntil they get all of this
information from most of thestudents coming in and then do
it.
So it's probably going to beJuly or late July before here
(15:50):
late July, before here.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So I would suggest that during the summer is before
this happens is a really goodtime to have some conversations
with your students about how toprepare for this situation, and
it's really good to talk throughwhat it may be like to have a
roommate.
One of the things you mention alot is not only thinking about
(16:13):
the worst roommate in the worldthat you're going to have to
live with, but thinking abouthow you can be a good roommate.
But thinking about how you canbe a good roommate, you know not
just how the other person willbe a terrible roommate not all
that assumption but how you canbe a good roommate.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
And it's good to have conversations, you know, in the
summer.
Yeah, what does a good roommatelook?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
like, look like.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, and how does that behave?
Because it is true thatstudents often assume one
extreme or the other.
Either it's going to be thisidealized, perfect, we're going
to be best friends and we'regoing to get along all the time,
or I'm going to have theroommate from hell.
It's going to be just awful.
(17:02):
I know it's going to beterrible and not thinking about,
I don't want to be thatroommate, I want to be the good
roommate.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Right.
So thinking about this in termsof, you know, thinking about it
realistically, no relationshipis perfect.
There will be some conflict inevery relationship.
There will be some conflict inevery relationship, there will
be some difficult moments.
But to even think through anddo some role playing, what would
(17:32):
you do in this situation?
What would you do in thissituation?
So the summer before is just aperfect time to do some of that.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, and really talking to your student too,
about being open and willing toexpand your horizons a little
bit, that you don't have to havea roommate.
That's a lot like you.
Having someone who's verydifferent is again part of the
college experience of exposingyourselves to new things and
(18:06):
learning about that.
And and deciding on what areyour non-negotiables, what are
the things that this is thebottom line for me.
I'm willing to give in, I'mwilling to compromise, I'm
willing to adjust, I'm willingto be flexible about a lot of
(18:29):
things, but are there and thefewer the better, because if you
have a list of 20non-negotiables, that's going to
be hard for anyone to live upto.
But are there one or two thingsthat you just say this is
really important for me, andwhether that's I absolutely know
(18:52):
I can't, absolutely no, I can'tstudy if there is a TV on in
the room or I.
You know, my non-negotiable isI don't want my roommate's
girlfriend or boyfriend sleepingovernight in our room, yep, or
(19:12):
whatever.
So really thinking ahead oftime so that that can be
addressed perhaps a little bit,and thinking about how to bring
things up Parents can talk tostudents about.
Well, how are you going tobring it up?
How are you going to talk toyour roommate if there's an
issue?
So thinking a little bit abouthow to make it work.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
So thinking a little bit about how to make it work.
Yeah, I do remember workingwith a student.
This was a couple years ago.
And she got into some troublebecause she and her roommates
were really loud at night.
And when I was asking her howit happened, how did she find
(19:58):
out that she was getting introuble?
She did tell me that she couldhear her next door neighbor
through the wall.
It's a very thin small wall.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It must have been.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But she heard her roommate calling her mother in
the middle of the night, sayingmy roommates are being too loud.
So so the next door neighbordidn't even come up to her and
say you're being too loud.
She called her mom.
And that really struck mebecause it made me realize how
(20:30):
inexperienced many of ourstudents are in dealing with a
problem, and the first urgemight be to call parents, to
call their parents.
But you know, it's really goodto think through how they would
approach a student and saysomething that's very common,
which is could you just tone itdown a little at night?
(20:52):
You know, be a little, you knowless loud.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And what a good opportunity for the parent on
the other end of that phone callfrom the student to say, okay,
you know, now it's time for meto be able to do a little
coaching and say to my studentokay, have you tried going over
and nicely knocking on the doorand saying I'm trying to study,
(21:20):
it's really hard and it's late,Could we, you know, not going
and being irate, but you know,or have you tried if the next
step, if you've tried that thenext step, might be going to
your resident assistant andasking for some help there?
What have you tried?
Here are some ideas, Ratherthan the parent buying into the
(21:47):
student's concern and saying,okay, I'm going to call Res Life
and we're going to get youmoved and all of that.
So it's a perfect opportunityto help students.
I think you are absolutelyright, though Students have
great difficulty bringing thetopic up or confronting
something, consulting withsomeone, Don't even want to
(22:10):
think about it as confronting.
But how to talk to each otherabout a problem like that?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And this is a good opportunity for parents to
support their students withoutjumping in and fixing it Right,
Because it really doesn't helpin the long run.
Teach our students how to copewith conflict.
If we call residence life, Imean it did Right we call
residence life.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I mean so, hopefully, one of the things that's
happened in July, when studentsfind out who their roommate is,
is that they have then contactedeach other and had some
opportunity to talk on the phoneor to FaceTime or to email or
to text or whatever it is thatstudents are currently doing
these days to be in touch witheach other and do some, you know
(22:59):
, getting to know each other anddeciding perhaps you bring the
fridge and I'll bring, you know,the TV, or you know doing some
of that so that they'veestablished a relationship a
little bit over the summer.
But then it all really beginson move-in day.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So move-in day is a really interesting day.
It's usually a hard day forboth parents and students, but I
do think move-in day is a goodtime to set the tone of the new
relationship which is reallybetween the two students who are
moving in two or three orhowever many.
(23:38):
So I do think it's importantyou know that, if your kids are
the first kids there, to maybewait until the roommate comes
before you choose your bed anddress or set up the room,
because it is something that theroommates need to do together.
Yeah, and I think as parents,again, our role is to support
(24:04):
and be on the side, to coach.
And so we might want to justsort of gently remind students
that I know that I know you andI, vicki, have talked about some
of the things that we need todo as parents.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I think move-in day is going to be its own podcast.
We have plenty to talk about onmove-in day.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I think it's a hard way.
I really do so.
I do think it's a good time forparents to step out, though,
and to go for a walk while yourkids are, while the new students
are, are figuring out the roomand how they're going to set
things up.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I do know I have to say I had to make the bed for so
did I, so did I and I told, andI also told them how to arrange
their room, which Isubsequently learned they
completely undid the minute Iwas out the gate, so it really
didn't matter.
But that's another thing.
But maybe if you take half anhour and go for a little walk
(25:12):
and go get a cup of coffee andmaybe even invite the roommate's
parents to come with you sothat they can get out too, and
it gives you a chance to get toknow your child's roommate's
parents a little bit, but alsogive the kids a little bit of
time on their own.
And then the real work ofestablishing the relationship.
(25:34):
You know, once the parents leaveat the end of moving day, the
real work happens and you know,sometimes, I think, there's
either a honeymoon or not period.
That happens Either everythingis perfect with roommates as
you're settling in or thingsfeel off right away and
(25:57):
recognizing that that's notnormal.
Yet you have no routine, yetYou're not going to classes, yet
You're really just getting toknow the other person.
And it's going to take time andit's going to take work.
And I think the work of makingrelationship work is something
(26:18):
that students oftenunderestimate.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I think some schools will suggest that students set
up a contract with their newroommate, and I think it's
(26:48):
actually a really good idea evenif the school doesn't suggest
that to come up with some kindof contract, general, you know,
not too specific, but just someof the general rules, like a few
of those non-negotiables.
The important thing is to starta conversation about what is
this going to be like, what arewe going to do if we don't get
along, you know.
Start a conversation, yeah,about what is this going to be
like, what are we going to do ifwe don't get along.
What you know, you know.
Start a conversation yeah, very, very.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Who's going to take out the trash?
Who's going to um, you know todo, how often are we going to
clean the room?
Uh, you know, you're just goingto keep your mess on your side
and I'll keep my neat on my side, or or whatever, but if you
have and yeah, the conversationis really the important thing-
(27:23):
and to put a sort of a positivetwist on it too, to to just to
begin this new relationship withsome humor and some like.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Here we are in this together.
Uh, we still have a positiveapproach.
Is is good and and it's asparents, it's our job to remind
our kids to do that.
They are really nervous aboutthis.
Yeah, this roommate situationis really stressful for them, or
for many of our students, andso it's up to us to kind of help
(27:53):
, you know, help steer ittowards some kind of positive.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
And that can happen on move-in day, but also in
those phone calls that are goingto happen over the next few
days and weeks and just sort ofchecking in how are things going
with your roommate?
And are you doing all of thosegood communication skills I mean
, we come back down toconversation so much of the time
(28:20):
Are you really consciouslythinking about using some of
those skills and I know I'm acommunication professor so I
keep coming back to this, but itreally is so vitally important
Are you really listening whenyour roommate is telling you
something or asking yousomething and not assuming that
(28:42):
you know what it is that they'regoing to say?
And are you being direct?
Sometimes students work to goaround the real issue when
really what you need to say isreally what you're thinking.
Are you communicating directlyand early and often and keeping
those and honestly not leaving alittle nasty note on their
(29:05):
computer or not postingsomething on Facebook that
they're going to see?
But if you're having an issue,just get it out there and really
talk about it, thinking aboutthe tone in which you do it and
trying to find ways that you canwork together to see if you can
find a solution.
And working that way andthinking about compromise and
(29:28):
collaboration, and I want totalk a little more about that in
a little bit, but you knowreally thinking about the skills
.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, and I do think the bottom line is you know, no
matter what's going on betweenroommates, there has to be a
general level of respect foreach other.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, um, because you're both in this together, so
no matter what's going on,whether it's really positive or
or possibly not, yeah, and, andyou can have an argument, but
still respect the other personthat you're arguing with, right.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And you know I mean conflict isn't all bad.
You know there will be someconflict and the important thing
to know is that there areresources out there to help.
(30:21):
You know there are people to goto to talk to.
You know resident assistantsare other students who are
trained to work with studentsaround these kind of issues.
They're resident directors.
There are.
You know there are resources.
You know good communication isnot is not automatically easy.
It takes some hard work and itmay take a little.
(30:41):
Take a little extra support andgood things can come out of it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It can, it can I, you know, I think we we work so
hard to protect our students andto smooth the path for them.
Those are the lawnmower parents,all these labels that get
applied to us to make it alittle easier for them, and
(31:08):
sometimes it's just going to behard work, but that good things
come out of that hard work.
So you know, I think there are anumber of lessons and we wanted
to talk a little bit about thekinds of lessons, and the first
you know I'll bang my drum againis the lessons about
communication that they learn.
They learn how to talk abouttheir problems, they learn how
(31:29):
to talk things out.
These are all skills thatthey're going to use all the way
through their lives.
They learn how to listen betterif they're working on it, and
how to talk in a way that otherpeople will listen to you, if
you're thinking about listeningskills, how to communicate
(31:49):
productively so that you knowhow to say this is what we have
to accomplish and we can talkabout that.
And how to problem solve andthink critically, which is all
part of communication.
How to state clearly andobjectively what you need and
what your bottom line is andalso just thinking about how to
(32:13):
how to create a positivecommunication climate, how to
talk about things in a way thatis generally positive, even when
their problems are negativethings, so that students can
come away with a lot of lifelessons just about communication
.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I think students come away with a lot of life lessons
in terms of values, learningabout what is important to them.
Sometimes you don't know, untilyou're in a situation like that
, what really matters, whatreally does matter.
I think it's incrediblyimportant to learn about other
people's values.
(32:51):
Other people may come fromdifferent worlds and have
different values than you have.
That is so important to learnto be able to step inside
someone else's shoes and see theworld a little bit from their
viewpoint.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And the ongoing lesson is not just realizing and
understanding that others haveperhaps significantly different
values, but how do you live withsomeone who has different
values?
Can you still manage to getalong and live together?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
And creatively solve problems, so that's incredibly,
incredibly important.
And then there are all thelessons about negotiating how to
negotiate.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, I mean that overlaps with the communication
skills, but it really is its ownsort of category that there is
a lot of negotiation that goesinto living together and what do
you need and what do I need andhow can we get there?
You know how to be flexible andnot deliver things in
(34:06):
ultimatums.
Either you do this or but thosethings never work.
So finding out ways to beflexible and finding out ways to
respond to someone else who maybe inflexible it's hard if
you're working hard to do thesethings and you get the sense
that the other person isn't.
(34:27):
So how to plan a conversation,how to approach a problem
together and to find multiplesolutions, and then how to close
the discussion when you've cometo a conclusion or you can't,
and how do you move on and howto have the kind of patience you
know.
As I was thinking about thisand I was thinking about the
(34:48):
ways students need to learn towork with each other, two things
came to mind for me.
One is um, the book that it wasvery popular a number of years
ago.
Um called getting to yes.
Um by roger fisher and williamuri, or yuri um.
(35:10):
It's getting to yes,negotiating agreement without
giving in, and um great book.
We'll link to it in the shownotes.
But you know they really hadsome basic principles that apply
, and it applies whether you'reone country negotiating with
another country or you're oneroommate negotiating with
another roommate and you knowjust very quickly and generally.
(35:35):
You know.
Principle number one wasseparate the people from the
problem.
What's the issue, and not sayyou're the problem, but there is
this issue.
The problem is the mess in thisroom.
It's not you're a slob andthat's the problem.
But we have a problem and canwe figure it out?
(35:55):
Problem and can we figure itout?
And then, focusing on what theysay is focusing on interests,
not positions, trying to putyourself in the other person's
shoes.
Why is this a problem?
What's the why behind the waythey're behaving or what they're
asking, if you're trying tocome to a conclusion and how to
(36:20):
invent options for mutual gain,how to collaborate and how to
find the win-win, which is sortof a specialized thing.
It's the other thing I wantedto talk about a little bit.
But their fourth step is insiston objective criteria, which is
basically staying on topic.
If we're talking about thisproblem, that's what we need to
(36:46):
talk about and we need to notget off topic and we need to not
get into something that was aproblem last week or something.
This is the problem we'retalking about right now.
And the fifth one that theytalk about is what they call is
know your BATNA, and that'sB-A-T-N-A and it's an
(37:06):
interesting term and it's whatis the best alternative to a
negotiated agreement.
So, essentially, if we can'twork this out, what's the
alternative?
What are the alternatives?
And sometimes that's theincentive to make it work.
The alternative is notnecessarily that the first
(37:27):
alternative is you would need tomove out or I need to move out.
What's the best alternative?
Maybe the next alternative iswe need to go talk to the RA,
the resident assistant, or weneed to make a contract or
something.
But if we can't work it out,what's going to happen?
And maybe that will help uscome to that.
(37:51):
So there's a lot.
If anybody is interested indoing a little more reading and
thinking about it, maybe talkingto your student about it the
book Getting to, yes, I thinkhas some interesting things.
And the last thing and Ipromise then I'll take my
communication professor hat offis talking a little bit about
compromise and collaboration,because we teach this in some of
(38:16):
our communication classes.
We've all been taught and Iknow I was and I know I taught
my kids that the best solutionis to find a compromise.
Right, you both want to playwith this same toy.
Okay, we need to compromise.
We're going to set a timer.
Susie gets to play with it forfive minutes and then the timer
(38:41):
will ring.
And Johnny gets to play with itfor five minutes and then the
timer will ring and Susie getsit.
And that works.
It stops the fighting.
But it's kind of a lose-losebecause you each now only get
five minutes with the toyinstead of being able to play
with it all the time.
And so compromise is good.
(39:02):
It's not a bad thing, but it'snot necessarily the best.
Better would be collaboration,and so that would be okay.
You both want to have the sametoy we could.
The lose, lose, lose is I takethe toy away and put it in the
closet.
Nobody gets to play with it.
Next step better is we set thetimer.
You get it five minutes andthey get it five minutes.
(39:24):
But can we and it takes hardwork and it takes communication,
all the things we've beentalking about Can we all sit
down and begin to think about?
Is there a game that you couldplay with the toy together?
That's collaborating.
So now it's a win-win becauseyou get 10 minutes.
(39:45):
You both get 10 minutes withthe toy.
And another way we describe itsometimes which I think helps
some students understand theprinciple is somebody's got 100
oranges to sell, you want to buythose oranges and I want to buy
those oranges.
We could outbid each other,right, we see who can pay the
(40:06):
most money and maybe you win.
You're willing to pay more, youget all 100 oranges, I get
nothing, I go away.
Or maybe I win and you getnothing and you go away.
That's not great.
Or we can compromise.
We split them.
You get 50 oranges, I get 50oranges.
Okay, we both kind of win, butwe both kind of lose because
(40:29):
neither one of us got 100.
Or we begin to talk to eachother, we begin to work together
, we begin to think about why doyou want these oranges, why do
I want these oranges?
And we discover, through somehard work, that you make orange
juice.
You need these oranges becauseyou want to squeeze them and you
want orange juice.
I, on the other hand, am makingmarmalade.
(40:52):
I need the pulp and I need therinds to make my marmalade.
So we find out that we canprobably, at a cheaper price,
buy all 100 oranges.
You can use them and then I canuse them.
That's collaboration andhelping students understand that
that's so much better than thehalf and half compromise If they
(41:13):
can get there, but how muchwork it takes to get there.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
I really like the orange analogy.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
You just like marmalade, I know.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
I like food, but I also I do like it because it
shows that if the two folksinvolved can actually listen to
each other and appreciate what'sgoing on for each other, then
they can be creative in problemsolving.
And that's difficult to do.
(41:44):
It is.
It's hard work, but it's soincredibly important.
So, again, I think these issuesthat come up around roommates
really address some of what ourstudents need to learn most
during these years.
Yes, they need to learnacademically, they need to
(42:07):
figure out their life goals,they need to figure out, you
know, jobs and just their wholeintellectual development.
But that's only one piece.
The other piece is working witheach other, living with each
other and listening and beingand creatively solving problems
(42:28):
together.
So these roommate issues arehuge and I think it's important
to talk to your kids about this.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And it feels so good when they do that, if they've
put in the work and they'veovercome an issue and they've
found that they can livetogether, it's really important.
And they don't have to be bestfriends, nope, they just need to
be able to live together it's aworking relationship, yeah, and
(43:01):
then often go off and spend allof their free time with other
people, and that's okay If theycan establish a living
relationship.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
And just a reminder to the parents who are listening
to us that our role as parentsis again on the sidelines, where
our role is to coach, is tosupport, is to step back and
maybe make some suggestions, notto fix it, um, but to step back
and support our students in inlearning these huge things, yeah
(43:33):
, and and recognizing too and Idon't want to end on a negative
note, but sometimes students doneed to change a roommate.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
There are times when, in spite of all of the things
we've just talked about, theyneed to separate, and that might
be part of the lesson learnedtoo they need to separate, and
that might be part of the lessonlearned too, that sometimes
that's a reality too, and youknow students need to take care
of themselves by changingroommates.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
That is part of could be a lesson learned too.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But it's not a first resort Never If you've tried
these other things.
So the wonderful adventurebegins and we all hope, hope,
(44:41):
hope, that spring or whether itis the following fall Hopefully,
the principles aren't going tochange, no matter when it
happens, and so we hope thatsome of this information is
helpful to parents, and ifyou're thinking that you would
like to hear more of the kindsof things we talk about, please
(45:03):
subscribe to the podcast.
Wherever you like to listen topodcasts we're out there on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify orStitcher Overcast just about
anywhere that you usually listento podcasts Please find us and
subscribe, and then you can geteach podcast as we release it.
(45:23):
And if you can think of otherswho might find these kinds of
conversations helpful, the bestthing you can do for us is to
share it.
Share the podcast with otherpeople and let them start
finding it, and you know, if youthink it would be helpful and
your child's college has aparent office, maybe make sure
(45:46):
they know about this and theymight like to share it with
other parents as well.
Visit the College Parent Centralwebsite for our show notes.
You can find those atcollegeparentcentralcom.
Forward slash podcast and wewill list the book we talked
about today and sometimes someother links of things that might
(46:08):
be helpful.
Feel free to leave us a commentthere.
We'd love to hear your comments, or send us an email at podcast
at collegeparentcentralcom.
So we'd love to hear from youone way or another.
Let us know what other topicsyou'd like to hear, and we hope
you will join us next time.
So until then, stay well.
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