The mental health landscape for college students has transformed dramatically in recent years, leaving many parents feeling unprepared and overwhelmed. In this episode, mental health experts Dr. Sarah Olivo and Dr. Liz Seidler join us to share their wisdom and their REACH framework (Realizing values, Elevating mental fitness, Acting with purpose, Creating healthy relationships, and Handling hard things wisely) designed specifically for today's college students’ mental fitness. Liz and Sarah also address the notorious "triple S triangle" of Sleep, Study, and Socializing that forces many students to sacrifice crucial aspects of wellbeing. Our conversation offers guidance on preparation before college, communication during separation, and recognizing warning signs that might indicate serious issues. Whether you're preparing to send your child to college or supporting them through current challenges, this episode provides compassionate, evidence-based strategies from experts who understand both the clinical landscape and the lived reality of today's college experience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts, vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration ofthe amazing child in college.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
This is the podcast where wetalk about all kinds of things
that have to do with parenting astudent who is in college, who
is thinking of or about to go tocollege, and sometimes even
students who are finished withcollege.
My name is Vicki Nelson and Iam a professor of communication
(01:11):
at a small liberal arts schooland, more importantly, I'm the
mother of three daughters who'veall gone to college and they
have come out the other side andwe have all survived.
So I come to this topic ofcollege parenting, both as a
parent and also as someone whoworks with college students
every day and I see what they'retalking about and struggling
(01:33):
with and celebrating and all ofthose things.
So I am here with severalpeople today, but I'll begin
with my co-host.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Hi everyone.
My name is Lynn Abrahams.
I also come to this topic intwo ways as a professional and
as a parent.
I'm a learning disabilityspecialist.
I have worked with collegestudents my whole career college
students who have a diagnosisof a learning difference and
(02:03):
I've worked with their familiesand their parents.
I'm also the mom of two sonswho have gone in, out, through
around college and they came out, went away, came back home,
then went away again and nowthey're I think they're gone, I
think they're launched and sovery happy to be here to talk
(02:29):
about all of this.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No one ever follows a direct path anywhere.
They're all in and out andaround, and we're very excited
today because we want to talkabout a topic that is so
important to so many, so manyparents and students these days
having to do with mental health,and we are here with two people
(02:53):
who are experts in that areaand who deal with it every day.
So we're happy to share thispodcast with Dr Sarah Olivo and
Dr Liz Seidler, and I'm going toask them to introduce
themselves and tell us a littlebit about a podcast that they
(03:16):
have, and then we're going toget into the topic of mental
health.
So, sarah, you showed up first,so we'll start with you.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Well, plus, you know, I'm the opener and Liz is the
closer, so that works how?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
it goes.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
And so hi, I'm Dr Sarah Olivo and thank you for
saying my name right.
Usually people add an I like awhole other syllable, dr Olivo
so I've learned to answereverything.
It's fine.
I am a licensed psychologist.
I have a practice actually sortof anywhere.
These days because of somethingcalled PSYPACT, you're able to
practice in many differentstates.
(03:50):
I also am licensed in New Yorkand that's where a lot of my
practice is.
I worked there for a long timeand trained there as well, and I
also now live very recently inNashville, tennessee.
So I've just gotten to see thatsome of the college issues that
come up are really reallyhappening across the board.
Right, these are all thecolleges have some version of, I
(04:15):
think, a new, or at leastgrowing, if not new issue of
making sure we're taking care ofthe mental health of these
students, as well as theeducation of these students and
the learning of these students.
So, and then I can pass thebaton over to my podcast co-host
.
But to say that we both starteda podcast called College is
(04:37):
Fine, everything's Fine a littletongue-in-cheek way of saying,
yeah, it's fine, and sometimesit's like life where there's
highs and lows right, there's,it's not blocked from that.
Um, it doesn't have any sort ofprotective cover from things
like stress and relationshipissues and feelings of
loneliness or overwhelm.
(04:57):
So we really wanted to create aplace for people to come and
get some free, actionable tips,advice, and also to feel like
they're not alone if or whenthey're feeling a struggle in
the college journey.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
It always helps to have company and to know that
you're not alone.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Very well said Sarah.
Yes, so I'm Dr Liz Seidler.
I'm a licensed clinicalpsychologist.
I have a private practice inRidgefield, Connecticut, which
is about an hour outside of NewYork City, and I specialize in
evidence-based treatments, whichis a big word of kind of saying
treatments that areskills-based to help people
(05:37):
regulate their emotions moreeffectively.
I primarily work with teenagersand young adults and I've done
a lot of school consultationsand trainings and I feel really
passionate aboutsocial-emotional learning across
the lifespan and was verygrateful to be introduced to
Sarah through colleagues so thatwe can really join on this
(06:00):
mission to reach a wider netthan the four walls of our
offices, and we're so gratefulto be here today with you guys.
We're excited to dive in.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, we're glad to have you here and I think we
wanted to start from basics.
We want to start from groundzero, and there's so much talk
these days about the importanceof good mental health and that
mental health is an issue for somany people, and especially the
(06:31):
younger people in the world.
So can you explain?
What do we mean by good mentalhealth?
It's a term we use all the time, but I'm not sure we always
understand what we're talkingabout.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
It's such a vague big word and there's a lot of
hashtags around it and that Ithink oftentimes it can feel
maybe like virtue signaling tosay, hashtag mental health
matters and things like that, sothat what it can feel like is
that there's, yes, maybe a lotof things being posted about it,
(07:08):
but what's the meat behind thatword?
And, and Liz and I, after acouple of years of working in
the field and a couple of yearsworking on our podcast, I've
tried to help create a simpleway and kind of an acronym to
remember the five core areasthat we think are essential to
not only picking you up ifyou're down, like if your mental
(07:28):
health is struggling, to getyou back into a place of
well-being, right, where youfeel like you're able to do the
basics of day-to-day livingwithout too much distress or
without too much anguish ortrouble.
And then these skills also arethings where, if you're having a
really typical year, can helpyou boost towards your next step
, get outside your comfort zone,take you to places that you
(07:53):
feel like would be maybeexciting or innovating, but you
might not consider.
So how to create and get themost out of your college
experience.
So we hope that those fiveareas which, liz, if you want to
what do we do?
Go back and forth.
You do RIDMTs, so we have fiveareas that we think are really
essential to make this feel likeit has a more concrete answer.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I'm happy to talk about it and I think fitness is
a good way to think about it.
If you think about physicalfitness, I think a lot of us are
aware what do we need to do tobe physically fit, but a lot of
us one don't pay as muchattention to mental fitness and
we're not really sure whatingredients need to kind of be
there.
So this acronym is called REACHand really it is about reaching
(08:38):
, you know, your best mentalfitness.
And when I think about that, itreally is about like how do I
like weather the storm ofeveryday life on campus more
effectively, how do I reach mygoals, how do I do it with more
happiness and joy and how do Ido it without getting into like
a downward spiral?
So the R in that reach isrealizing your values right and
(09:00):
paying attention to what arevalue-based actions that we want
to make in college.
Now, young adulthood is aboutfinding your values right.
A lot of kids don't know whattheir values are.
They might adopt or take theirvalues from their parents or
their community in which theywere raised.
So it's actually a great timeto pay attention to what are the
(09:22):
things that are reallyimportant to me, and we know
from science that when you actin line with your values and you
pay attention to them, youactually are happier or more
joyful.
It's when we take kind of,these moves away from our values
that lead to, let's say, a lotof guilt or shame or sadness.
So that's the first step.
Sarah, you want to get into thesecond one?
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, and the next one is elevating your mental
fitness.
So what are the ways you can,what are skills you can have to
make sure you're feeling steadyand set you up for the best
success and having a good,positive or just a steady mood?
And so one of those things isto make sure you're taking care
of your physical health, and Lizand I always joke.
(10:04):
We're like we know we're notcreating a groundbreaking
statement here.
Everyone knows this.
It's probably the most likeyeah, no, kidding type of thing
that we do, but it's alsopotentially the hardest to stay
steady, especially in college.
We talk about the triple Striangle of sleep, study versus
(10:25):
socializing, and you can onlyuse two Like.
We kind of hear from collegestudents that that's something
they struggle with a lot, and sowe really try to do is say okay
at base.
When people come into us andthey are depressed or really you
know their mood swings are highand low or some version of that
, or they're struggling a lot intheir friendships.
(10:46):
Always, I start by saying canwe just get the basics?
How's your sleep?
Are you eating okay?
What's going on?
Are you on social media a lot?
Are you moving your body right?
What are the things and mostoften the students have either
not been doing that in a waythat sets them up to be upset,
or they've gotten upset andthey've let some of that go.
So we say, okay, let's at leaststart to get that's in your
(11:08):
control right now.
Um, so let's see if we can getyour sleep Okay.
Let's see if we can get youreating Okay, let's take some
break from screens or let's dosome editing of what you're
looking at on social media andlet's see, like, what are the
ways that you feel build yourenergy?
For some people it's justmaking sure you're walking to
class, you know.
For other people it's aspecific exercise they need to
do.
It can range, but we always sayat least start there, because we
(11:33):
can't help you with some of theother more emotional or
cognitive or thinking issuesthat might be getting in the way
if you're also sleep deprived,et cetera.
So that's one, and then theother is just being aware of
some of the filters that yourmind has.
So can you see some of the whatwould you say, liz kind of like
(11:59):
categories or filters thatpeople can fall into?
An example of one we see a lotin college is something called
mind reading.
So my professor is going tothink I'm stupid if I ask him
for help.
We hear a lot.
Or my roommate doesn't like mebecause she's not taking me, she
didn't invite me to that partywith her friends.
So just a lot of things wherepeople make these assumptions,
(12:22):
they kind of have these thoughtsthat they consider facts right,
and then they act on those asif they're facts, and then it
can become a self-fulfillingprophecy.
So I don't ask my professor forhelp because he thinks I'm
stupid and therefore I get moreconfused in class and I
understand less and then I feelmore confused.
Or my roommate doesn't like me,she didn't invite me to that
party with her friends, and sotherefore if I go to lunch I'm
(12:46):
less likely to have her.
You know, see if she wants tocome with me, and then it starts
to divide the relationship more.
And so what we really also tryto have people realize is that
we all have thoughts throughoutthe day.
I think we have something like80 to 90,000 thoughts a day and
they're not facts, they're justa way of our mind trying to kind
of it's like a ping pong ball,kind of like oh, it's kind of
(13:06):
going and reacting to a lot ofdifferent situations.
You can have two totallydifferent thoughts in the same
day and think that they're facts, depending on your mood, right?
So just trying to separate themfrom some of their assumptions
is the key to elevating yourmental fitness.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah, I'll just, and I'm mindful that we're like
we're going through the wholething.
This is taking a long time.
I'll just go through the nextthree kind of quickly.
But A is acting with purpose,which is making sure that the
behaviors you're engaging in ona college campus are in line
with those values that yourecognized in the R.
And really helping peopleunderstand that how we behave is
(13:47):
probably one of the mostcritical tools to our mood.
That, if we really want toregulate certain mood states
that we need to be reallymindful that we're acting in a
purposeful way in terms of ourbehavior.
And this could be from you knowwhether you're you know getting
out of bed and actually goingto class, or how you handle
(14:07):
urges to procrastinate.
That those would be kind ofcritical skills for college
students.
To again this whole umbrella ofmental fitness.
And the C is about kind of howwe create healthy relationships
on a college campus.
And I'll just say quickly, andthen I'll let Sarah end with the
age.
I think that piece is what mostcollege students are worried
(14:29):
about right, like am I going tomake friends?
Who am I going to go to thedining hall with?
Who am I going to haveactivities with.
I want to broaden that in termsof mental health and our social
support system.
There are a lot of other peopleon a college campus besides
people your age.
I really feel strongly aboutrelationships and mentorships
with professors and othercommunity members on a college
(14:51):
campus and also, which I thinkis neglected a lot, we hear this
a lot how do you navigatechanges in your relationships
with your family You're movingaway and your social support
system in high school?
So creating and maintaining andsustaining these healthy
relationships is, we know, ourrelationship world is really
(15:15):
important to maintaining healthymental health outcomes.
And then, sarah, you want totalk about H, which is the last
in the acronym.
Yeah, sorry, I cut you off.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Oh no, I jumped in Handling hard things wisely.
So when things happen or youfeel like you're in crisis, if
you have a fight with a friend,if you have failed a test, right
, sometimes we have thoughtsthat are unhelpful like, oh, I'm
gonna fail that test and thenthat's one thing.
But then what?
If you do fail the test and itis a fact, suddenly, how do you
(15:49):
take some actual problems thatcome up and use a systematic
approach to it, tolerate some ofthe big emotions so that you
don't react impulsively?
Go through some problem-solvingstrategies that can help you
feel like you have a stepwiseplan for it, just some essential
frustration or distresstolerance skills to get you out
(16:10):
of that like really kind of bigemotion mind, so that you can
stay steady and, when somestressors inevitably happen,
that it doesn't knock you offcourse too much.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So you know I love this idea of talking about
mental fitness and connecting itto physical fitness.
It's something that peoplereally get and understand.
I'm curious about what kind ofadvice you would give parents
who are maybe having.
Maybe their kids are still homein high school and they're
(16:41):
preparing for college.
What kind of advice can yougive them for how to improve,
you know, mental health fitness?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Oh, I have so many thoughts.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I know this is a huge question.
We could do a whole podcast.
Did we say that this?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
podcast is going to be six hours long.
I know I was going to say wecan also say we have so many
episodes.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
I know, we can promise we'll find something
there, because it's big.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
I think, a couple of things that I'll say and then,
sarah, you can chime in and I'mgoing to try to be succinct here
because I think and working alot with parents and I used to
run like a parent of young adultgroup and a failure to launch
group I think that there's a lotof accommodation that parents
do for children and I have threekids of my own that hopefully I
will be well prepared for thistransition when they go to
(17:32):
college, but I see it myself.
So I want to be reallyunderstanding of the fact that
it is easier to accommodate ourkids than it is to actually help
them develop their ownself-management skills.
So I really think that when Ilook at a lot of my caseload,
which are kids who've had totake medical leave from college,
(17:55):
I really think they lacked twothings.
I think they lackedself-management skills.
There was a lot, and not justparents.
I want to be clear.
There's a lot of accommodatingthat happens within our school
systems.
So, as parents, I would bethinking about are there
behaviors that my child has notlearned that I could really work
on doing some scaffolding andkind of pulling away while
(18:16):
they're under my roof, andwhether this means and I've said
this so many times I had aparent who paid for a freshman
roommate to wake their child upevery single day.
So whether it's your child'salarm clock, you know whether it
means they've never done theirlaundry, which again is such a
stressor I mean, there's so manystressors, even that is a big
stressor, you know Whetherthey've never really curated
(18:40):
their own nutritional plan,their meal plan, being able to
like cook something, or you'rewriting emails to their high
school teacher still for them,right?
So I would think about can Iincrease self-management skills
in my child?
And then around some of theseaspects about mental fitness and
we know this, kids learnthrough modeling from a very
(19:01):
young age.
There are things that I'mreally mindful of, you know,
like do I take space for myphone and social media?
Am I, are my child seeing megoing out for a nightly walk,
right?
So I do think there are somethings that we can encourage
even around these areas, aroundlike sleep and nutrition, et
cetera, that not to get in a tugof war with your child, but I
(19:23):
do think that there is somemodeling around.
What are some values that I cankind of instill, or priorities
that we have as a family that mychild is more likely to take
with them to the transition andI really do.
I think I see that a lot,particularly around sleep,
eating and movement, that kidswho are already kind of doing
(19:43):
this and not in an extreme wayat all, but like they're just
more mindful about their sleepthey're the ones that are saying
no to like I went out Tuesday,wednesday, thursday.
I think I'm gonna stay in onFriday night.
They're the kids that reallyhad some limits or structure and
I think that came through again, not like this, like you know,
like really disciplinedhousehold.
I think that came through again, not like this like really
(20:04):
disciplined household.
I think it was through modeling.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Excellent ideas, good .
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I do just want to say you will not be prepared when
it's your own child, I know.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Trust me, I'm already not prepared as a parent.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It's entirely different.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Yeah, and so much is.
These things are so much easiersaid than done, because you
still even if, yes, it is thesocial aspect of how they get
(20:42):
support outside of the home andstarting to encourage or have
conversations with them aboutwhich friend would be a good
person to talk to about this youknow a lot of times when
they're in school and thatperson might be away and you
know parents.
I think we can all admit weactually don't know a lot of
what it's like to have a post onInstagram that someone shared
(21:04):
that made you look foolish.
I've never had that.
We didn't have social mediagrowing up.
You know who knows what that'slike, is their peers.
So I think a lot of it is sortof saying, oh, you know, wow,
what they come to you with aproblem or complaint.
Socially helping and supportingthem, of course, right, but
that might look a littledifferent as you're getting
closer to school where you mightstart to say here's my take.
(21:25):
But do you have a friend whounderstands this, or a teacher
that you trust or you know?
Is there someone who is alittle older in your class, a
classmate or a coach who youfeel like could be helpful here?
Because I you know, inadmitting like I want to help.
I'm here to help you, andsomeone else might have a real
sense of what they've done inthe past about this.
(21:47):
So I think it's allowing themand helping them look towards
what are the appropriate folksin their life who can help them
through something difficult, andnot feeling like it's all the
burden of the parent to be theone problem solver.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I think that when , when kids go to college,
things do shift in terms of thatrelationship with parents as
well, and you know so.
So what kind of advice wouldyou have for parents when their
kids are across the country?
You know and, and perhaps youknow, they feel like they're
(22:25):
suffering you know, and theystill want to be supportive.
But they're not prepared to doit, and you?
Speaker 5 (22:32):
don't actually maybe have a sense of how bad it is.
You know, sometimes, you know,I've definitely worked with
people who or even students,it's like sometimes they're
going to call the parent andleave a voicemail or send a sort
of a text being like I failedthis class, oh my God, and
they're really dysregulated, andthe parent gets that message
maybe an hour later becausethey've been in a meeting or
(22:53):
something.
And then they're trying to calltheir child and the person's,
you know, by that point they'vetalked to a few other friends
and they're fine, and theparent's, like, freaking out,
can't get ahold of them, youknow so.
So part of it, I think,absolutely proactively, before
heading out, or maybe when thethe student comes home saying
(23:13):
can we just talk a little bitabout how we're going to
communicate this Right, and so Iknow that's not going to be
something where, once you havethat conversation, everything
falls into place and it's easy,but at least having a game plan,
being like hey, if something'sreally bad, um, let's have like
a you know, an SOS.
That means mom, get on theplane or dad get on the plane
and come get me Right.
So let's have some code for ifit's really difficult.
(23:36):
And also, please share with methese other troubling times.
Um, and you know, if you dothat, it's really nice for you
to let me know if you're okay,if or when you're okay, because
I won't assume you're okay untilyou update me.
The other thing is the one whodoesn't share.
And so how do you?
You're doing a lot of guessing.
So sometimes you have, like theperson who shares every
(23:57):
difficulty and then forgets tosay, oh, but, by the way, I had
this great time with my friendstoo, so it balanced out.
And sometimes you have theperson who holds it all in, and
so the parent is guessing a lot,and so for them I would say, if
you find that the student isn'tgiving a lot of detail, right,
if you're like hey, what'd youdo this weekend?
(24:17):
Nothing.
Now, sometimes, look, sometimesit's like that's just been your
kid from day one.
Right, so you're like OK, that'sjust been your kid from day one
, right?
So you're like, okay, that'swhat I'm going to get.
And I think, especially asmothers to many children, we
know some of our kids might bereally great communicators and
some of our kids have been likethe fine.
You know we say proof of life.
You know they give you thethumbs up emoji and you're like,
all right, they've been likethat from day one.
(24:38):
But if you've noticed a shiftand suddenly they're not sharing
as much or they're giving vagueexamples or they're not talking
about a story where they'vebeen doing something going to
looking at into a new club orgoing to a party or hanging out
with their friends on at lunch,right, so maybe talking with
(25:00):
them about, hey, listen, I don'thear a lot of detail here, so
it just makes me want to do abit more of a check-in.
How are you doing?
You know so.
Do we need to have a quickparent visit just to come and
see her early?
Hey, you've been texting let's,let's schedule a FaceTime.
You know, I kind of want to seeyour face.
Let's, let's take, let's take alook where we can see how
you're doing so much stuff.
Can we do a FaceTime?
(25:21):
The other thing that I think isimportant is some sense of oh
gosh, it just went right into myhead.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
I had this great idea as I was talking and now it's
gone, liz, if you talk, it'llprobably come back to me.
Okay, I have two things I'll sayquickly.
One you know, we recently did atalk and a parent was saying
there's this pressure on parentsthat their kids you know, of
course it's like they get intocollege.
We're like, finally we got inand they're so proud and that
(25:50):
their kid needs to be thrivingin college.
And I think one piece of adviceI would give to parents is to
be honest about their experiencethat their child is having so
that they can get support fromother parents.
Parents are the best resourcefor each other.
Someone has gone throughsomething that you've gone
through.
Their child has gone throughsomething.
(26:10):
So I think, in order for us toregulate our own distress and
anxiety about our child, that weneed support in that, and doing
it alone, I really think, leadsto sometimes worse outcomes for
our students that an anxiousparent is likely going to act in
a way that is probably going tolead to a negative outcome with
(26:32):
their child, whether that meansthat there's going to be
withholding of information orthere's going to be more
accommodation, whatever it mightbe.
And the second thing I wouldsay and Sarah kind of alluded to
this we called a lot of ourrecent talks and some of the
work that we're doing about whyis mine on campus?
And I really encourage parentsand this doesn't just have to be
the summer before freshman yearto really have a plan that does
(26:56):
not devise an emotion aboutwhat we're going to do.
Like, are we having check-ins?
Some families really that's wewant to check in, hear how
you're doing with your grades.
Some parents really want to seewhat your grades are.
I have no judgment about whatchoices families are going to
make.
My judgments as a cliniciancome when people, in emotion,
make really impulsive decisionson both ends.
(27:18):
So having a plan about, like,what is our level of
communication going to be?
Like, how frequent is it goingto be?
Am I going to have lifewhatever 360 thing on, and
seeing that you're in your dormnonstop and never leaving and
therefore my anxiety is goingthrough the roof, that you're
unhappy.
So I really think that having aplan about how are you going to
(27:39):
communicate and whatcontingencies, which I think are
reasonable I think a lot oftimes the contingencies come
after there's a crisis and I'drather than them be there ahead
of time, because they mightactually prevent a crisis from
potentially happening.
And I think it also helpsregulate parental anxiety
because there is a plan in place.
(27:59):
You know, particularly for thekids that are really far away,
that they can't just, you know,hop in a car and see their kid
in a few hours.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I remembered what I was going to say.
Can I still add it?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Absolutely Go for it.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
I also think that I don't want to say it's only
first semester, right, but Idefinitely think that parents
should have a wide range ofpotential normal reactions to
first semester, which is goingto be different than something
that might happen junior year.
The reason is because it's somuch more normal for people to
feel lonely, overwhelmed.
(28:34):
I can't do this, and thenparents get very anxious about
it because their child you know,and I'll talk to friends you
know clients, what have you, asyou can imagine, with the
College Mental Health Podcast,people share their stories with
us all the time.
So we have a lot of data to saythat most parents are getting
texts from their insert.
(28:56):
Any type of student, right?
The person who went to a greatschool as a seemingly great
group of friends and as astarter on their baseball team
where they got a scholarship,who are coming home or calling
them and saying I'm reallylonely and they're panicked like
what.
I never expected this.
This kid has never been lonely.
It's like, well, it's moretypical to be lonely and
(29:17):
struggle a little bit in thefirst semester than not in some
way because they've left theircomfort zone, and so that's the
other thing I'll say is some ofthis advice I want to say give a
wide range of grace for you andyour student for that first
semester-ish, as they're gettingsettled, because they'll come
home for either Thanksgiving orChristmas, typically, or the
holiday break, and that's whenyou can sort of regroup and be
(29:39):
like, okay, first semester down,where are you doing?
Okay, where can we help.
And that's a nice time to feellike, okay, what went well with
our communication.
Where can we change things up?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so difficult to tryto normalize these things and
when you're at a distance it'seven increased.
I think you know you've talkeda lot about some of the
struggles and the barriersstudents have.
I love your REACH acronym.
(30:13):
That is so inclusive.
It seems to cover a lot of andeven some of the strategies I
know.
Lynn, when you and I weretalking earlier, you were
wondering and wanted to ask aquestion about COVID.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Oh, I'm curious to know, since you're working with
students all the time, what aresome of the trends that you're
seeing?
Are there particular changesyou've seen since COVID?
Are there particular changesyou've seen based on the current
, uh, sort of political climate?
Um, you know, so trends, that'ssort of my, my question I have
(30:54):
an answer to that.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Liz, do you?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
I do, but if you want to go first, no, no, I just was
making sure um, I'll start withone trend I think is important
and it's also like asubspecialty of mine, you know,
I think it would be hard to talkabout mental health on college
campuses and not talk about likerises in suicide rates.
So I do think that there is.
That is just a fact.
(31:16):
I mean, there was a recent onerecently in upstate New York,
here right before graduationgraduation.
So I think a trend is thatmental health and they would say
this since COVID for sure thatcollege counseling centers are
overwhelmed, they'reunderstaffed and there are not
enough resources for collegestudents and that there are high
(31:38):
rates of anxiety and depressionthat if you look at like the
top, some of the top threereasons for that are like
financial stress, also theforecast just in the country in
terms of like economical, thepolitical climate, the cultural
kind of shifts and changes,climate change.
(31:59):
So there is a lot of likeexistentialist, depresso-typic
stuff that I see that collegeused to be like a time of like
excitement on college campusesand there are a lot of real
realities that college studentsare facing that I did not face
on a college campus.
So I would say that that isdefinitely a trend, that there
is more need for mental healthsupport than actually exists,
(32:23):
and it concerns me the most inareas that are really rural,
right and my hope and put youknow, with site packed for
psychologists and sometelehealth companies, to figure
out how can we reach a lot ofcolleges that aren't in more
urban settings where there aremore, you know, access to, let's
say, more therapists.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
So that's my thoughts , yeah, and I think that
something I see a lot is peopleforgetting that they had two
years of atypical communicationdevelopment education and so
then holding themselves to somehigh standard and forgetting
(33:07):
that there's a lot of people outthere who because of that,
might not have, you know, theylost two years of problem
solving a social situation, ofhaving to attend in class, and
so trying to say to them let'sat least I'm not saying that's
everything that's happeningright now, but can we at least
have that be a puzzle piece thatyou put in to why it might be
(33:29):
difficult to take four classesat a time and manage that?
Because you had two years ofyour high school experience
where most likely there was alot more accommodation of you
know, less pressure to docertain assignments, et cetera,
like that's a long time in yourlife, that's a big percentage of
your life where you weren'tlearning those skills.
(33:49):
So even sometimes young adultsare coming out being like, oh, I
just can't believe that I don'thave my career going where it's
supposed to.
It's like hold on, the worldwas on pause for two years, you
know.
So it's not to say it'scurrently the reason they're
upset, but I do see and have toremind people of that, to help
them say, like, let's reframethis and that you're still, you
(34:10):
know, you're still potentiallyplaying some catch up there.
And the other thing I seeoutside of you know, of course
there's the big.
I mean that's the mostimportant part we want.
We want them to be alive.
That's the basic minimum, andthey can't do any of this if
they're feeling suicidal.
That has got to be the numberone thing we take care of.
I also see, in smaller ways,people not willing to go to a
(34:32):
dance with someone because theyshare.
That person shared a post whichwas a different political
belief or different sides of thePalestinian and Israeli
conflict.
Right, where it's sort of like,wow, we have to double down our
you know it's talking aboutvalues, right, like we have to
double down and have everydecision made based on my
political beliefs or my other.
(34:53):
You know, so it's.
That is not something that Ithink happened prior to both the
rise of social media and thepolarization of our political
cycle and our 24-hour news cycle.
So I'm working a lot with peoplesaying, all right, like, is it,
what value is going to guideyour choice?
(35:13):
It's okay to choose the value ofthis person's really fun and I
want to go and have a fun timedancing with this person and
they're friends with my friendgroup, that is okay to choose
that value too.
That there's pros and cons tomaking having this experience
feel like it's bipolar and isthere a middle path we can have?
(35:36):
And if they're saying like, no,this is who I am as a person,
I'm like great, as long as, aslong as that is an identified
reason you're doing it, versuspressure from other friends to
do you know so that's what wetry to look at.
A lot, too, is back to that.
Realizing your values of sayingis, if this is who you are and
you know it to be true, thenthat should be what you decide.
But if it feels like pressurefrom other people to or or you
(36:02):
know your friend group, or so onand so forth, can you push past
some of those should thinkingand those decisions?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, the more I hear you guys talk, the more I
realize how important the workis you're doing.
Students need support in alldifferent areas, and you are
doing that.
It does concern me that there'snot enough support on campuses
(36:39):
support on on campuses.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
yeah, and, and I think you know you've done a
really good job of of helping usunderstand what some of the
struggles are, um, that studentshave in the areas that you know
are going to lead toward thatmore mental fitness, um, and the
, and then those barriers ofresources and all.
But I'm wondering what kinds ofthings prevent students from
(37:01):
seeking help?
It's one thing when they'reseeking help on campus and they
can't get it because therearen't enough resources or
whatever, but it seems as thoughthere are students who need
support and help but they don'treach out for it.
What gets in the way.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I can start with this .
So one I want to be clear thatwe know, in terms of treatment
seeking for psychotherapy,females seek treatment more than
men.
So I just want to say thatthere is a big difference there
in terms of mental healthseeking.
You know treatment seekingbehavior, and you know Sarah and
I talk about this and we'vegone to some conferences that
(37:45):
are.
You know there's thisorganization called Active Minds
which is on every collegecampus.
It's a mental health likeawareness group that you know
and I know we're talking about alot of negatives.
One of the reasons I loveworking with young adults and
just this generation.
I'm like, oh my gosh, if theyhave a cause that they are into,
they are into it, right, andthey are waving the flag and
(38:08):
they're doing everything.
So I want to say that there hasbeen a lot of progress and
definitely in the time that I'vebeen a psychologist, around
trying to destigmatize mentalhealth and making and making
like taking care of your mentalhealth cool, right.
Um, there are things collegestudents are doing that I never
did, like I was not makingsmoothies, I was not working out
in college and I was definitelynot having like a coded color,
(38:30):
like planner, right.
So, like I, um, they are makinga lot of steps to, and a lot of
celebrities and just people inthe zeitgeist like really are
prioritizing mental health andtalking about it.
I think we need to do more ofthat.
I think it needs to be aneveryday conversation, the same
way that I would tell you that Igot a flat tire this morning,
and I definitely think amongstmen that and we also know that
(38:55):
those are the people that tendto be successful in terms of
committing suicide they tend touse more lethal means.
So I think part of it istalking about you know your
mental health struggles moreopenly.
And then I think the secondanother barrier I mean we talked
about it earlier, but I dothink that is means financial
(39:18):
means.
There is a class barrier.
When you look at collegecounseling centers, you likely
go for an intake and then you'rereferred into the community.
If you don't have insurance oryou don't have money, you likely
and if that person is available, everyone has wait lists it's
gonna be really hard for you toget mental health treatment.
(39:40):
Um, so I do think that, thoughthat is a significant barrier to
think about, what are some likelow-cost methods that we can
kind of get kids who need it.
Um, as well, as I do think thatthere still is, you know, this
idea, that you know it'schallenging to kind of admit and
be vulnerable that you'rehaving difficulty, and I
(40:03):
definitely think in college,sarah and I talk about this last
thing I'll say is that, likeeveryone has this idea, it's
like the four best years of yourlives, right, and I think there
is this enormous pressure to behappy in college and really
embrace your freedom, and sosometimes I think it's an
obstacle to kind of admit like,oh, this is not as going as well
as I thought it was going to begoing.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Yeah, I also think that, instead of there's,
there's two ways that we need toaddress it from my perspective.
One is we need to say how canwe make it more of a normal part
of the conversation so thatpeople who need access to mental
health have it.
And that's a big reason why westarted our podcast, right?
We're like, hey, that's themost private place it can be,
it's in your phone and yourheadphones and no one knows what
(40:44):
you're listening to.
Isn't that a great way if youwant to seek this kind of help,
to get it without feeling likeyou have to walk into a
counseling center, whichtypically is a big barrier.
Right?
Someone has to see me enter abuilding that is labeled as the
counseling center?
Under no circumstances, right?
I think the other part isrealizing that a lot of people
in these kids' lives or thesestudents' lives can be
(41:06):
therapeutic even if they're nota therapist, finding a
supportive coach or a professorwho supports them and saying how
can we equip them with somemore awareness?
And I know a lot of times oncollege campuses, for the people
who are really thinking aboutthis are saying let's talk about
from the top down.
How are we creating a positivemental health experience for
these students so they haveaccess to easy ways to move
(41:28):
their body.
They have access to betternutrition right, it doesn't just
need to be that they need to goget therapy.
But how can we create anenvironment where our RAs are a
little bit more attuned tovalidating someone or checking
in, if they see it?
So the college campuses, Ithink, that are doing the best
job, are not just creatingreally nice counseling centers,
(41:50):
they're trying to figure out howto create a more mental health
awareness across more people intheir in that environment.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
That makes good sense yeah, it does of spreading it
around and and it's.
It's good for parents to knowthat too, that, um, that you
know.
Back to what you were talkingabout earlier.
It doesn't have to be all on meas as parent, that there are
those I don't know what youcould call it sort of
(42:22):
intermediary.
I mean there's a counselingcenter and I hope my student
will take advantage of that ifthey need it, but that there may
be other sources of that kindof support as well, and I mean
we could.
There's so many more questionswe want to ask and we can keep
going.
You know, short of a six hourepisode, we, you know we may
(42:43):
want to do a part, pick yourbrains, but in the, in the
meantime, you know, when we'retalking about those other
sources of uh, of support thatare out there, um, one of them
is your podcast, and I think Ialso read or heard that you, you
are work, working on or havesome kind of program, and maybe
(43:07):
I'm outing you about that soonerthan you want it but tell.
But tell us a little bit moreabout how your podcast helps
students.
And then, what do you havecoming up that people might want
you to know about?
Speaker 5 (43:35):
figure out a way so that people, if they don't want
to listen to just hours andhours of us over the course of a
two-year podcast, let's putthat information into a course
using those five core areascalled REACH so that we can say,
okay, so yes, we've chattedabout them here, but what does
that look like in practice?
How can you personalize that toyou?
And so creating some morelessons and didactics.
And so we have groups that weform, that we can do sort of
(43:57):
small groups.
So we're also working ongetting it out TBD when this
will happen, but we're going tocertainly create a course that's
on demand as well.
So I think the other part is,you know, we are trying to write
a book as well for fittherapists or high school
counselors or parents to use sothat they can say, all right, as
we are sending our students,slash babies, senior off into
(44:22):
the world.
You answer your questions.
What are the different areaswhere we can start to build some
of these skills or send themoff in a way that allows them to
be ready from the outset versusreacting to it.
Ready from the outset versusreacting to?
Speaker 4 (44:38):
it Bad, yeah.
So those are the ways to thinkabout it.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
But there's always, you know there's, I think, a lot
of it too, I would say, is talkto your, talk to your kid, you
know.
Talk to your senior to saywhat's the way that you like to
do it.
Some people are readers, somepeople are podcast listeners.
Some people want to have it bean audio book, other people are
big talkers, right, so it's thegreat news is now that there is
something for everybody.
It's just a matter of findingit and then saying, okay, let's
(45:01):
map out how you're going to getaccess to those resources when
you're not at home.
So, if it's the counselingcenter, how do you go there?
Where's the website?
If it's, I want to have acouple of books on hand, or
let's put those in your Kindle,and et cetera.
And so, seeing the way that notassuming that the way you
appreciate getting that help isthe same way that your child
(45:21):
wants to get help and saying,okay, let's figure out the way
you wanna do it.
Do you wanna go talk to yourcoach?
Do you wanna have a couple ofpodcast episodes on hand?
Do you just wanna have me onspeed dial on Sundays to do
check-ins?
It's gonna vary by each person.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
Yeah, and I'll just say quick oh, I was going to say
quickly and we just did a livepodcast with a local high school
and that'll be out in August,before the school year, with
former high school students whoare currently in college and
kind of presenting on our guideas well as asking questions
about like the specifics in thereach guide and like what were
the difficulties they had andstruggles.
(45:58):
And our hope is to do more ofthat so that we can really get
in the community to those, youknow, seniors, before they leave
the building, so that they have, you know, my hope some
knowledge, a little resiliencybefore they head off.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, so that all goes back to having that plan,
that contingency plan of of ofwhat you might do that you hope
you never need, right, right.
So so listening to your podcastis um really important and um
so let me ask you to reach youRight.
(46:34):
Yeah.
So I was going to let me askyou one more question, and then
I want you to give us the littlelist of how people can reach
you and where to find you andall of that.
But our other question that weoften like to ask is some people
are readers, especially parents.
Not so much the kids these days, but a lot of parents Are there
(46:55):
particular.
I mean, your book is not outyet, you're still working on it,
so we can't point people tothat yet.
But are there other sources orbooks that you would recommend?
Speaker 5 (47:09):
Yeah, for sure, and what we can do is because we
could particularly like rattlingit off the top of our heads
might feel, you know.
As for people furiously writing, down Right, right We'd be
happy to give you a list if youwant to put it in your show
notes.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
We'll do that, okay, so we'll add a list of other
resources to the show notes andthen just tell us and we will
also add it to the show notes.
How can people reach you ifthey want to or listen to the
podcast or find you?
Speaker 5 (47:37):
I know Liz has a harder stop than me.
You go first.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Okay, really quickly.
I know the book and I'm goingto forget it how to Navigate
Life.
It's from Boston College,professor Bell Lang.
It's wonderful, and they have acurriculum within Boston
College that's based upon thisto kind of find meaning and
purpose in your life andchoosing a career, et cetera.
My private practice is CBT ofRidgefield.
(48:02):
It's wwwcbtridgefieldcom.
Sarah and I are atcollegesfinepodcastcom
collegesfinepodcastgmailcom.
Um, we're on every platformthat you can listen to a podcast
on, and we're recentlylaunching our youtube, which
will have our faces.
(48:23):
Um, so we we know that a lot ofcollege students watch and
listen to podcasts, apparentlyon youtube yeah, see, we're
learning too.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
we're, you know, it's like the college people, a lot
younger and smarter than you.
And then I am, like I said, I'min Nashville, tennessee, and
it's drsaraholivocom.
We are always happy to hearfrom anyone, whether it's a
student who needs some help,some parents who have some
questions or someone who justwants to get a little bit more
information and be a guest onour show.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Okay, great Thank you .
So we will put all of that inthe show notes and thank you so
much for having us so muchinformation with us today, and
we'll hear from you again downthe line.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
Sounds wonderful.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Thank you so much for coming.
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already in college, this podcast is for you.
You'll find food for thoughtand information about college
and about navigating thatdelicate balance of guidance,
involvement and knowing when toget out of the way.
(00:31):
Join your hosts, vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration ofthe amazing child in college.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast.
This is the podcast where wetalk about all kinds of things
that have to do with parenting astudent who is in college, who
is thinking of or about to go tocollege, and sometimes even
students who are finished withcollege.
My name is Vicki Nelson and Iam a professor of communication
(01:11):
at a small liberal arts schooland, more importantly, I'm the
mother of three daughters who'veall gone to college and they
have come out the other side andwe have all survived.
So I come to this topic ofcollege parenting, both as a
parent and also as someone whoworks with college students
every day and I see what they'retalking about and struggling
(01:33):
with and celebrating and all ofthose things.
So I am here with severalpeople today, but I'll begin
with my co-host.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Hi everyone.
My name is Lynn Abrahams.
I also come to this topic intwo ways as a professional and
as a parent.
I'm a learning disabilityspecialist.
I have worked with collegestudents my whole career college
students who have a diagnosisof a learning difference and
(02:03):
I've worked with their familiesand their parents.
I'm also the mom of two sonswho have gone in, out, through
around college and they came out, went away, came back home,
then went away again and nowthey're I think they're gone, I
think they're launched and sovery happy to be here to talk
(02:29):
about all of this.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No one ever follows a direct path anywhere.
They're all in and out andaround, and we're very excited
today because we want to talkabout a topic that is so
important to so many, so manyparents and students these days
having to do with mental health,and we are here with two people
(02:53):
who are experts in that areaand who deal with it every day.
So we're happy to share thispodcast with Dr Sarah Olivo and
Dr Liz Seidler, and I'm going toask them to introduce
themselves and tell us a littlebit about a podcast that they
(03:16):
have, and then we're going toget into the topic of mental
health.
So, sarah, you showed up first,so we'll start with you.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Well, plus, you know, I'm the opener and Liz is the
closer, so that works how?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
it goes.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
And so hi, I'm Dr Sarah Olivo and thank you for
saying my name right.
Usually people add an I like awhole other syllable, dr Olivo
so I've learned to answereverything.
It's fine.
I am a licensed psychologist.
I have a practice actually sortof anywhere.
These days because of somethingcalled PSYPACT, you're able to
practice in many differentstates.
(03:50):
I also am licensed in New Yorkand that's where a lot of my
practice is.
I worked there for a long timeand trained there as well, and I
also now live very recently inNashville, tennessee.
So I've just gotten to see thatsome of the college issues that
come up are really reallyhappening across the board.
Right, these are all thecolleges have some version of, I
(04:15):
think, a new, or at leastgrowing, if not new issue of
making sure we're taking care ofthe mental health of these
students, as well as theeducation of these students and
the learning of these students.
So, and then I can pass thebaton over to my podcast co-host
.
But to say that we both starteda podcast called College is
(04:37):
Fine, everything's Fine a littletongue-in-cheek way of saying,
yeah, it's fine, and sometimesit's like life where there's
highs and lows right, there's,it's not blocked from that.
Um, it doesn't have any sort ofprotective cover from things
like stress and relationshipissues and feelings of
loneliness or overwhelm.
(04:57):
So we really wanted to create aplace for people to come and
get some free, actionable tips,advice, and also to feel like
they're not alone if or whenthey're feeling a struggle in
the college journey.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
It always helps to have company and to know that
you're not alone.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Very well said Sarah.
Yes, so I'm Dr Liz Seidler.
I'm a licensed clinicalpsychologist.
I have a private practice inRidgefield, Connecticut, which
is about an hour outside of NewYork City, and I specialize in
evidence-based treatments, whichis a big word of kind of saying
treatments that areskills-based to help people
(05:37):
regulate their emotions moreeffectively.
I primarily work with teenagersand young adults and I've done
a lot of school consultationsand trainings and I feel really
passionate aboutsocial-emotional learning across
the lifespan and was verygrateful to be introduced to
Sarah through colleagues so thatwe can really join on this
(06:00):
mission to reach a wider netthan the four walls of our
offices, and we're so gratefulto be here today with you guys.
We're excited to dive in.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, we're glad to have you here and I think we
wanted to start from basics.
We want to start from groundzero, and there's so much talk
these days about the importanceof good mental health and that
mental health is an issue for somany people, and especially the
(06:31):
younger people in the world.
So can you explain?
What do we mean by good mentalhealth?
It's a term we use all the time, but I'm not sure we always
understand what we're talkingabout.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
It's such a vague big word and there's a lot of
hashtags around it and that Ithink oftentimes it can feel
maybe like virtue signaling tosay, hashtag mental health
matters and things like that, sothat what it can feel like is
that there's, yes, maybe a lotof things being posted about it,
(07:08):
but what's the meat behind thatword?
And, and Liz and I, after acouple of years of working in
the field and a couple of yearsworking on our podcast, I've
tried to help create a simpleway and kind of an acronym to
remember the five core areasthat we think are essential to
not only picking you up ifyou're down, like if your mental
(07:28):
health is struggling, to getyou back into a place of
well-being, right, where youfeel like you're able to do the
basics of day-to-day livingwithout too much distress or
without too much anguish ortrouble.
And then these skills also arethings where, if you're having a
really typical year, can helpyou boost towards your next step
, get outside your comfort zone,take you to places that you
(07:53):
feel like would be maybeexciting or innovating, but you
might not consider.
So how to create and get themost out of your college
experience.
So we hope that those fiveareas which, liz, if you want to
what do we do?
Go back and forth.
You do RIDMTs, so we have fiveareas that we think are really
essential to make this feel likeit has a more concrete answer.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I'm happy to talk about it and I think fitness is
a good way to think about it.
If you think about physicalfitness, I think a lot of us are
aware what do we need to do tobe physically fit, but a lot of
us one don't pay as muchattention to mental fitness and
we're not really sure whatingredients need to kind of be
there.
So this acronym is called REACHand really it is about reaching
(08:38):
, you know, your best mentalfitness.
And when I think about that, itreally is about like how do I
like weather the storm ofeveryday life on campus more
effectively, how do I reach mygoals, how do I do it with more
happiness and joy and how do Ido it without getting into like
a downward spiral?
So the R in that reach isrealizing your values right and
(09:00):
paying attention to what arevalue-based actions that we want
to make in college.
Now, young adulthood is aboutfinding your values right.
A lot of kids don't know whattheir values are.
They might adopt or take theirvalues from their parents or
their community in which theywere raised.
So it's actually a great timeto pay attention to what are the
(09:22):
things that are reallyimportant to me, and we know
from science that when you actin line with your values and you
pay attention to them, youactually are happier or more
joyful.
It's when we take kind of,these moves away from our values
that lead to, let's say, a lotof guilt or shame or sadness.
So that's the first step.
Sarah, you want to get into thesecond one?
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, and the next one is elevating your mental
fitness.
So what are the ways you can,what are skills you can have to
make sure you're feeling steadyand set you up for the best
success and having a good,positive or just a steady mood?
And so one of those things isto make sure you're taking care
of your physical health, and Lizand I always joke.
(10:04):
We're like we know we're notcreating a groundbreaking
statement here.
Everyone knows this.
It's probably the most likeyeah, no, kidding type of thing
that we do, but it's alsopotentially the hardest to stay
steady, especially in college.
We talk about the triple Striangle of sleep, study versus
(10:25):
socializing, and you can onlyuse two Like.
We kind of hear from collegestudents that that's something
they struggle with a lot, and sowe really try to do is say okay
at base.
When people come into us andthey are depressed or really you
know their mood swings are highand low or some version of that
, or they're struggling a lot intheir friendships.
(10:46):
Always, I start by saying canwe just get the basics?
How's your sleep?
Are you eating okay?
What's going on?
Are you on social media a lot?
Are you moving your body right?
What are the things and mostoften the students have either
not been doing that in a waythat sets them up to be upset,
or they've gotten upset andthey've let some of that go.
So we say, okay, let's at leaststart to get that's in your
(11:08):
control right now.
Um, so let's see if we can getyour sleep Okay.
Let's see if we can get youreating Okay, let's take some
break from screens or let's dosome editing of what you're
looking at on social media andlet's see, like, what are the
ways that you feel build yourenergy?
For some people it's justmaking sure you're walking to
class, you know.
For other people it's aspecific exercise they need to
do.
It can range, but we always sayat least start there, because we
(11:33):
can't help you with some of theother more emotional or
cognitive or thinking issuesthat might be getting in the way
if you're also sleep deprived,et cetera.
So that's one, and then theother is just being aware of
some of the filters that yourmind has.
So can you see some of the whatwould you say, liz kind of like
(11:59):
categories or filters thatpeople can fall into?
An example of one we see a lotin college is something called
mind reading.
So my professor is going tothink I'm stupid if I ask him
for help.
We hear a lot.
Or my roommate doesn't like mebecause she's not taking me, she
didn't invite me to that partywith her friends.
So just a lot of things wherepeople make these assumptions,
(12:22):
they kind of have these thoughtsthat they consider facts right,
and then they act on those asif they're facts, and then it
can become a self-fulfillingprophecy.
So I don't ask my professor forhelp because he thinks I'm
stupid and therefore I get moreconfused in class and I
understand less and then I feelmore confused.
Or my roommate doesn't like me,she didn't invite me to that
party with her friends, and sotherefore if I go to lunch I'm
(12:46):
less likely to have her.
You know, see if she wants tocome with me, and then it starts
to divide the relationship more.
And so what we really also tryto have people realize is that
we all have thoughts throughoutthe day.
I think we have something like80 to 90,000 thoughts a day and
they're not facts, they're justa way of our mind trying to kind
of it's like a ping pong ball,kind of like oh, it's kind of
(13:06):
going and reacting to a lot ofdifferent situations.
You can have two totallydifferent thoughts in the same
day and think that they're facts, depending on your mood, right?
So just trying to separate themfrom some of their assumptions
is the key to elevating yourmental fitness.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah, I'll just, and I'm mindful that we're like
we're going through the wholething.
This is taking a long time.
I'll just go through the nextthree kind of quickly.
But A is acting with purpose,which is making sure that the
behaviors you're engaging in ona college campus are in line
with those values that yourecognized in the R.
And really helping peopleunderstand that how we behave is
(13:47):
probably one of the mostcritical tools to our mood.
That, if we really want toregulate certain mood states
that we need to be reallymindful that we're acting in a
purposeful way in terms of ourbehavior.
And this could be from you knowwhether you're you know getting
out of bed and actually goingto class, or how you handle
(14:07):
urges to procrastinate.
That those would be kind ofcritical skills for college
students.
To again this whole umbrella ofmental fitness.
And the C is about kind of howwe create healthy relationships
on a college campus.
And I'll just say quickly, andthen I'll let Sarah end with the
age.
I think that piece is what mostcollege students are worried
(14:29):
about right, like am I going tomake friends?
Who am I going to go to thedining hall with?
Who am I going to haveactivities with.
I want to broaden that in termsof mental health and our social
support system.
There are a lot of other peopleon a college campus besides
people your age.
I really feel strongly aboutrelationships and mentorships
with professors and othercommunity members on a college
(14:51):
campus and also, which I thinkis neglected a lot, we hear this
a lot how do you navigatechanges in your relationships
with your family You're movingaway and your social support
system in high school?
So creating and maintaining andsustaining these healthy
relationships is, we know, ourrelationship world is really
(15:15):
important to maintaining healthymental health outcomes.
And then, sarah, you want totalk about H, which is the last
in the acronym.
Yeah, sorry, I cut you off.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Oh no, I jumped in Handling hard things wisely.
So when things happen or youfeel like you're in crisis, if
you have a fight with a friend,if you have failed a test, right
, sometimes we have thoughtsthat are unhelpful like, oh, I'm
gonna fail that test and thenthat's one thing.
But then what?
If you do fail the test and itis a fact, suddenly, how do you
(15:49):
take some actual problems thatcome up and use a systematic
approach to it, tolerate some ofthe big emotions so that you
don't react impulsively?
Go through some problem-solvingstrategies that can help you
feel like you have a stepwiseplan for it, just some essential
frustration or distresstolerance skills to get you out
(16:10):
of that like really kind of bigemotion mind, so that you can
stay steady and, when somestressors inevitably happen,
that it doesn't knock you offcourse too much.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So you know I love this idea of talking about
mental fitness and connecting itto physical fitness.
It's something that peoplereally get and understand.
I'm curious about what kind ofadvice you would give parents
who are maybe having.
Maybe their kids are still homein high school and they're
(16:41):
preparing for college.
What kind of advice can yougive them for how to improve,
you know, mental health fitness?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Oh, I have so many thoughts.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I know this is a huge question.
We could do a whole podcast.
Did we say that this?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
podcast is going to be six hours long.
I know I was going to say wecan also say we have so many
episodes.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
I know, we can promise we'll find something
there, because it's big.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
I think, a couple of things that I'll say and then,
sarah, you can chime in and I'mgoing to try to be succinct here
because I think and working alot with parents and I used to
run like a parent of young adultgroup and a failure to launch
group I think that there's a lotof accommodation that parents
do for children and I have threekids of my own that hopefully I
will be well prepared for thistransition when they go to
(17:32):
college, but I see it myself.
So I want to be reallyunderstanding of the fact that
it is easier to accommodate ourkids than it is to actually help
them develop their ownself-management skills.
So I really think that when Ilook at a lot of my caseload,
which are kids who've had totake medical leave from college,
(17:55):
I really think they lacked twothings.
I think they lackedself-management skills.
There was a lot, and not justparents.
I want to be clear.
There's a lot of accommodatingthat happens within our school
systems.
So, as parents, I would bethinking about are there
behaviors that my child has notlearned that I could really work
on doing some scaffolding andkind of pulling away while
(18:16):
they're under my roof, andwhether this means and I've said
this so many times I had aparent who paid for a freshman
roommate to wake their child upevery single day.
So whether it's your child'salarm clock, you know whether it
means they've never done theirlaundry, which again is such a
stressor I mean, there's so manystressors, even that is a big
stressor, you know Whetherthey've never really curated
(18:40):
their own nutritional plan,their meal plan, being able to
like cook something, or you'rewriting emails to their high
school teacher still for them,right?
So I would think about can Iincrease self-management skills
in my child?
And then around some of theseaspects about mental fitness and
we know this, kids learnthrough modeling from a very
(19:01):
young age.
There are things that I'mreally mindful of, you know,
like do I take space for myphone and social media?
Am I, are my child seeing megoing out for a nightly walk,
right?
So I do think there are somethings that we can encourage
even around these areas, aroundlike sleep and nutrition, et
cetera, that not to get in a tugof war with your child, but I
(19:23):
do think that there is somemodeling around.
What are some values that I cankind of instill, or priorities
that we have as a family that mychild is more likely to take
with them to the transition andI really do.
I think I see that a lot,particularly around sleep,
eating and movement, that kidswho are already kind of doing
(19:43):
this and not in an extreme wayat all, but like they're just
more mindful about their sleepthey're the ones that are saying
no to like I went out Tuesday,wednesday, thursday.
I think I'm gonna stay in onFriday night.
They're the kids that reallyhad some limits or structure and
I think that came through again, not like this, like you know,
like really disciplinedhousehold.
I think that came through again, not like this like really
(20:04):
disciplined household.
I think it was through modeling.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Excellent ideas, good .
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I do just want to say you will not be prepared when
it's your own child, I know.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Trust me, I'm already not prepared as a parent.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It's entirely different.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Yeah, and so much is.
These things are so much easiersaid than done, because you
still even if, yes, it is thesocial aspect of how they get
(20:42):
support outside of the home andstarting to encourage or have
conversations with them aboutwhich friend would be a good
person to talk to about this youknow a lot of times when
they're in school and thatperson might be away and you
know parents.
I think we can all admit weactually don't know a lot of
what it's like to have a post onInstagram that someone shared
(21:04):
that made you look foolish.
I've never had that.
We didn't have social mediagrowing up.
You know who knows what that'slike, is their peers.
So I think a lot of it is sortof saying, oh, you know, wow,
what they come to you with aproblem or complaint.
Socially helping and supportingthem, of course, right, but
that might look a littledifferent as you're getting
closer to school where you mightstart to say here's my take.
(21:25):
But do you have a friend whounderstands this, or a teacher
that you trust or you know?
Is there someone who is alittle older in your class, a
classmate or a coach who youfeel like could be helpful here?
Because I you know, inadmitting like I want to help.
I'm here to help you, andsomeone else might have a real
sense of what they've done inthe past about this.
(21:47):
So I think it's allowing themand helping them look towards
what are the appropriate folksin their life who can help them
through something difficult, andnot feeling like it's all the
burden of the parent to be theone problem solver.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I think that when , when kids go to college,
things do shift in terms of thatrelationship with parents as
well, and you know so.
So what kind of advice wouldyou have for parents when their
kids are across the country?
You know and, and perhaps youknow, they feel like they're
(22:25):
suffering you know, and theystill want to be supportive.
But they're not prepared to doit, and you?
Speaker 5 (22:32):
don't actually maybe have a sense of how bad it is.
You know, sometimes, you know,I've definitely worked with
people who or even students,it's like sometimes they're
going to call the parent andleave a voicemail or send a sort
of a text being like I failedthis class, oh my God, and
they're really dysregulated, andthe parent gets that message
maybe an hour later becausethey've been in a meeting or
(22:53):
something.
And then they're trying to calltheir child and the person's,
you know, by that point they'vetalked to a few other friends
and they're fine, and theparent's, like, freaking out,
can't get ahold of them, youknow so.
So part of it, I think,absolutely proactively, before
heading out, or maybe when thethe student comes home saying
(23:13):
can we just talk a little bitabout how we're going to
communicate this Right, and so Iknow that's not going to be
something where, once you havethat conversation, everything
falls into place and it's easy,but at least having a game plan,
being like hey, if something'sreally bad, um, let's have like
a you know, an SOS.
That means mom, get on theplane or dad get on the plane
and come get me Right.
So let's have some code for ifit's really difficult.
(23:36):
And also, please share with methese other troubling times.
Um, and you know, if you dothat, it's really nice for you
to let me know if you're okay,if or when you're okay, because
I won't assume you're okay untilyou update me.
The other thing is the one whodoesn't share.
And so how do you?
You're doing a lot of guessing.
So sometimes you have, like theperson who shares every
(23:57):
difficulty and then forgets tosay, oh, but, by the way, I had
this great time with my friendstoo, so it balanced out.
And sometimes you have theperson who holds it all in, and
so the parent is guessing a lot,and so for them I would say, if
you find that the student isn'tgiving a lot of detail, right,
if you're like hey, what'd youdo this weekend?
(24:17):
Nothing.
Now, sometimes, look, sometimesit's like that's just been your
kid from day one.
Right, so you're like OK, that'sjust been your kid from day one
, right?
So you're like, okay, that'swhat I'm going to get.
And I think, especially asmothers to many children, we
know some of our kids might bereally great communicators and
some of our kids have been likethe fine.
You know we say proof of life.
You know they give you thethumbs up emoji and you're like,
all right, they've been likethat from day one.
(24:38):
But if you've noticed a shiftand suddenly they're not sharing
as much or they're giving vagueexamples or they're not talking
about a story where they'vebeen doing something going to
looking at into a new club orgoing to a party or hanging out
with their friends on at lunch,right, so maybe talking with
(25:00):
them about, hey, listen, I don'thear a lot of detail here, so
it just makes me want to do abit more of a check-in.
How are you doing?
You know so.
Do we need to have a quickparent visit just to come and
see her early?
Hey, you've been texting let's,let's schedule a FaceTime.
You know, I kind of want to seeyour face.
Let's, let's take, let's take alook where we can see how
you're doing so much stuff.
Can we do a FaceTime?
(25:21):
The other thing that I think isimportant is some sense of oh
gosh, it just went right into myhead.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
I had this great idea as I was talking and now it's
gone, liz, if you talk, it'llprobably come back to me.
Okay, I have two things I'll sayquickly.
One you know, we recently did atalk and a parent was saying
there's this pressure on parentsthat their kids you know, of
course it's like they get intocollege.
We're like, finally we got inand they're so proud and that
(25:50):
their kid needs to be thrivingin college.
And I think one piece of adviceI would give to parents is to
be honest about their experiencethat their child is having so
that they can get support fromother parents.
Parents are the best resourcefor each other.
Someone has gone throughsomething that you've gone
through.
Their child has gone throughsomething.
(26:10):
So I think, in order for us toregulate our own distress and
anxiety about our child, that weneed support in that, and doing
it alone, I really think, leadsto sometimes worse outcomes for
our students that an anxiousparent is likely going to act in
a way that is probably going tolead to a negative outcome with
(26:32):
their child, whether that meansthat there's going to be
withholding of information orthere's going to be more
accommodation, whatever it mightbe.
And the second thing I wouldsay and Sarah kind of alluded to
this we called a lot of ourrecent talks and some of the
work that we're doing about whyis mine on campus?
And I really encourage parentsand this doesn't just have to be
the summer before freshman yearto really have a plan that does
(26:56):
not devise an emotion aboutwhat we're going to do.
Like, are we having check-ins?
Some families really that's wewant to check in, hear how
you're doing with your grades.
Some parents really want to seewhat your grades are.
I have no judgment about whatchoices families are going to
make.
My judgments as a cliniciancome when people, in emotion,
make really impulsive decisionson both ends.
(27:18):
So having a plan about, like,what is our level of
communication going to be?
Like, how frequent is it goingto be?
Am I going to have lifewhatever 360 thing on, and
seeing that you're in your dormnonstop and never leaving and
therefore my anxiety is goingthrough the roof, that you're
unhappy.
So I really think that having aplan about how are you going to
(27:39):
communicate and whatcontingencies, which I think are
reasonable I think a lot oftimes the contingencies come
after there's a crisis and I'drather than them be there ahead
of time, because they mightactually prevent a crisis from
potentially happening.
And I think it also helpsregulate parental anxiety
because there is a plan in place.
(27:59):
You know, particularly for thekids that are really far away,
that they can't just, you know,hop in a car and see their kid
in a few hours.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I remembered what I was going to say.
Can I still add it?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Absolutely Go for it.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
I also think that I don't want to say it's only
first semester, right, but Idefinitely think that parents
should have a wide range ofpotential normal reactions to
first semester, which is goingto be different than something
that might happen junior year.
The reason is because it's somuch more normal for people to
feel lonely, overwhelmed.
(28:34):
I can't do this, and thenparents get very anxious about
it because their child you know,and I'll talk to friends you
know clients, what have you, asyou can imagine, with the
College Mental Health Podcast,people share their stories with
us all the time.
So we have a lot of data to saythat most parents are getting
texts from their insert.
(28:56):
Any type of student, right?
The person who went to a greatschool as a seemingly great
group of friends and as astarter on their baseball team
where they got a scholarship,who are coming home or calling
them and saying I'm reallylonely and they're panicked like
what.
I never expected this.
This kid has never been lonely.
It's like, well, it's moretypical to be lonely and
(29:17):
struggle a little bit in thefirst semester than not in some
way because they've left theircomfort zone, and so that's the
other thing I'll say is some ofthis advice I want to say give a
wide range of grace for you andyour student for that first
semester-ish, as they're gettingsettled, because they'll come
home for either Thanksgiving orChristmas, typically, or the
holiday break, and that's whenyou can sort of regroup and be
(29:39):
like, okay, first semester down,where are you doing?
Okay, where can we help.
And that's a nice time to feellike, okay, what went well with
our communication.
Where can we change things up?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so difficult to tryto normalize these things and
when you're at a distance it'seven increased.
I think you know you've talkeda lot about some of the
struggles and the barriersstudents have.
I love your REACH acronym.
(30:13):
That is so inclusive.
It seems to cover a lot of andeven some of the strategies I
know.
Lynn, when you and I weretalking earlier, you were
wondering and wanted to ask aquestion about COVID.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Oh, I'm curious to know, since you're working with
students all the time, what aresome of the trends that you're
seeing?
Are there particular changesyou've seen since COVID?
Are there particular changesyou've seen based on the current
, uh, sort of political climate?
Um, you know, so trends, that'ssort of my, my question I have
(30:54):
an answer to that.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Liz, do you?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
I do, but if you want to go first, no, no, I just was
making sure um, I'll start withone trend I think is important
and it's also like asubspecialty of mine, you know,
I think it would be hard to talkabout mental health on college
campuses and not talk about likerises in suicide rates.
So I do think that there is.
That is just a fact.
(31:16):
I mean, there was a recent onerecently in upstate New York,
here right before graduationgraduation.
So I think a trend is thatmental health and they would say
this since COVID for sure thatcollege counseling centers are
overwhelmed, they'reunderstaffed and there are not
enough resources for collegestudents and that there are high
(31:38):
rates of anxiety and depressionthat if you look at like the
top, some of the top threereasons for that are like
financial stress, also theforecast just in the country in
terms of like economical, thepolitical climate, the cultural
kind of shifts and changes,climate change.
(31:59):
So there is a lot of likeexistentialist, depresso-typic
stuff that I see that collegeused to be like a time of like
excitement on college campusesand there are a lot of real
realities that college studentsare facing that I did not face
on a college campus.
So I would say that that isdefinitely a trend, that there
is more need for mental healthsupport than actually exists,
(32:23):
and it concerns me the most inareas that are really rural,
right and my hope and put youknow, with site packed for
psychologists and sometelehealth companies, to figure
out how can we reach a lot ofcolleges that aren't in more
urban settings where there aremore, you know, access to, let's
say, more therapists.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
So that's my thoughts , yeah, and I think that
something I see a lot is peopleforgetting that they had two
years of atypical communicationdevelopment education and so
then holding themselves to somehigh standard and forgetting
(33:07):
that there's a lot of people outthere who because of that,
might not have, you know, theylost two years of problem
solving a social situation, ofhaving to attend in class, and
so trying to say to them let'sat least I'm not saying that's
everything that's happeningright now, but can we at least
have that be a puzzle piece thatyou put in to why it might be
(33:29):
difficult to take four classesat a time and manage that?
Because you had two years ofyour high school experience
where most likely there was alot more accommodation of you
know, less pressure to docertain assignments, et cetera,
like that's a long time in yourlife, that's a big percentage of
your life where you weren'tlearning those skills.
(33:49):
So even sometimes young adultsare coming out being like, oh, I
just can't believe that I don'thave my career going where it's
supposed to.
It's like hold on, the worldwas on pause for two years, you
know.
So it's not to say it'scurrently the reason they're
upset, but I do see and have toremind people of that, to help
them say, like, let's reframethis and that you're still, you
(34:10):
know, you're still potentiallyplaying some catch up there.
And the other thing I seeoutside of you know, of course
there's the big.
I mean that's the mostimportant part we want.
We want them to be alive.
That's the basic minimum, andthey can't do any of this if
they're feeling suicidal.
That has got to be the numberone thing we take care of.
I also see, in smaller ways,people not willing to go to a
(34:32):
dance with someone because theyshare.
That person shared a post whichwas a different political
belief or different sides of thePalestinian and Israeli
conflict.
Right, where it's sort of like,wow, we have to double down our
you know it's talking aboutvalues, right, like we have to
double down and have everydecision made based on my
political beliefs or my other.
(34:53):
You know, so it's.
That is not something that Ithink happened prior to both the
rise of social media and thepolarization of our political
cycle and our 24-hour news cycle.
So I'm working a lot with peoplesaying, all right, like, is it,
what value is going to guideyour choice?
(35:13):
It's okay to choose the value ofthis person's really fun and I
want to go and have a fun timedancing with this person and
they're friends with my friendgroup, that is okay to choose
that value too.
That there's pros and cons tomaking having this experience
feel like it's bipolar and isthere a middle path we can have?
(35:36):
And if they're saying like, no,this is who I am as a person,
I'm like great, as long as, aslong as that is an identified
reason you're doing it, versuspressure from other friends to
do you know so that's what wetry to look at.
A lot, too, is back to that.
Realizing your values of sayingis, if this is who you are and
you know it to be true, thenthat should be what you decide.
But if it feels like pressurefrom other people to or or you
(36:02):
know your friend group, or so onand so forth, can you push past
some of those should thinkingand those decisions?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, the more I hear you guys talk, the more I
realize how important the workis you're doing.
Students need support in alldifferent areas, and you are
doing that.
It does concern me that there'snot enough support on campuses
(36:39):
support on on campuses.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
yeah, and, and I think you know you've done a
really good job of of helping usunderstand what some of the
struggles are, um, that studentshave in the areas that you know
are going to lead toward thatmore mental fitness, um, and the
, and then those barriers ofresources and all.
But I'm wondering what kinds ofthings prevent students from
(37:01):
seeking help?
It's one thing when they'reseeking help on campus and they
can't get it because therearen't enough resources or
whatever, but it seems as thoughthere are students who need
support and help but they don'treach out for it.
What gets in the way.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I can start with this .
So one I want to be clear thatwe know, in terms of treatment
seeking for psychotherapy,females seek treatment more than
men.
So I just want to say thatthere is a big difference there
in terms of mental healthseeking.
You know treatment seekingbehavior, and you know Sarah and
I talk about this and we'vegone to some conferences that
(37:45):
are.
You know there's thisorganization called Active Minds
which is on every collegecampus.
It's a mental health likeawareness group that you know
and I know we're talking about alot of negatives.
One of the reasons I loveworking with young adults and
just this generation.
I'm like, oh my gosh, if theyhave a cause that they are into,
they are into it, right, andthey are waving the flag and
(38:08):
they're doing everything.
So I want to say that there hasbeen a lot of progress and
definitely in the time that I'vebeen a psychologist, around
trying to destigmatize mentalhealth and making and making
like taking care of your mentalhealth cool, right.
Um, there are things collegestudents are doing that I never
did, like I was not makingsmoothies, I was not working out
in college and I was definitelynot having like a coded color,
(38:30):
like planner, right.
So, like I, um, they are makinga lot of steps to, and a lot of
celebrities and just people inthe zeitgeist like really are
prioritizing mental health andtalking about it.
I think we need to do more ofthat.
I think it needs to be aneveryday conversation, the same
way that I would tell you that Igot a flat tire this morning,
and I definitely think amongstmen that and we also know that
(38:55):
those are the people that tendto be successful in terms of
committing suicide they tend touse more lethal means.
So I think part of it istalking about you know your
mental health struggles moreopenly.
And then I think the secondanother barrier I mean we talked
about it earlier, but I dothink that is means financial
(39:18):
means.
There is a class barrier.
When you look at collegecounseling centers, you likely
go for an intake and then you'rereferred into the community.
If you don't have insurance oryou don't have money, you likely
and if that person is available, everyone has wait lists it's
gonna be really hard for you toget mental health treatment.
(39:40):
Um, so I do think that, thoughthat is a significant barrier to
think about, what are some likelow-cost methods that we can
kind of get kids who need it.
Um, as well, as I do think thatthere still is, you know, this
idea, that you know it'schallenging to kind of admit and
be vulnerable that you'rehaving difficulty, and I
(40:03):
definitely think in college,sarah and I talk about this last
thing I'll say is that, likeeveryone has this idea, it's
like the four best years of yourlives, right, and I think there
is this enormous pressure to behappy in college and really
embrace your freedom, and sosometimes I think it's an
obstacle to kind of admit like,oh, this is not as going as well
as I thought it was going to begoing.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Yeah, I also think that, instead of there's,
there's two ways that we need toaddress it from my perspective.
One is we need to say how canwe make it more of a normal part
of the conversation so thatpeople who need access to mental
health have it.
And that's a big reason why westarted our podcast, right?
We're like, hey, that's themost private place it can be,
it's in your phone and yourheadphones and no one knows what
(40:44):
you're listening to.
Isn't that a great way if youwant to seek this kind of help,
to get it without feeling likeyou have to walk into a
counseling center, whichtypically is a big barrier.
Right?
Someone has to see me enter abuilding that is labeled as the
counseling center?
Under no circumstances, right?
I think the other part isrealizing that a lot of people
in these kids' lives or thesestudents' lives can be
(41:06):
therapeutic even if they're nota therapist, finding a
supportive coach or a professorwho supports them and saying how
can we equip them with somemore awareness?
And I know a lot of times oncollege campuses, for the people
who are really thinking aboutthis are saying let's talk about
from the top down.
How are we creating a positivemental health experience for
these students so they haveaccess to easy ways to move
(41:28):
their body.
They have access to betternutrition right, it doesn't just
need to be that they need to goget therapy.
But how can we create anenvironment where our RAs are a
little bit more attuned tovalidating someone or checking
in, if they see it?
So the college campuses, Ithink, that are doing the best
job, are not just creatingreally nice counseling centers,
(41:50):
they're trying to figure out howto create a more mental health
awareness across more people intheir in that environment.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
That makes good sense yeah, it does of spreading it
around and and it's.
It's good for parents to knowthat too, that, um, that you
know.
Back to what you were talkingabout earlier.
It doesn't have to be all on meas as parent, that there are
those I don't know what youcould call it sort of
(42:22):
intermediary.
I mean there's a counselingcenter and I hope my student
will take advantage of that ifthey need it, but that there may
be other sources of that kindof support as well, and I mean
we could.
There's so many more questionswe want to ask and we can keep
going.
You know, short of a six hourepisode, we, you know we may
(42:43):
want to do a part, pick yourbrains, but in the, in the
meantime, you know, when we'retalking about those other
sources of uh, of support thatare out there, um, one of them
is your podcast, and I think Ialso read or heard that you, you
are work, working on or havesome kind of program, and maybe
(43:07):
I'm outing you about that soonerthan you want it but tell.
But tell us a little bit moreabout how your podcast helps
students.
And then, what do you havecoming up that people might want
you to know about?
Speaker 5 (43:35):
figure out a way so that people, if they don't want
to listen to just hours andhours of us over the course of a
two-year podcast, let's putthat information into a course
using those five core areascalled REACH so that we can say,
okay, so yes, we've chattedabout them here, but what does
that look like in practice?
How can you personalize that toyou?
And so creating some morelessons and didactics.
And so we have groups that weform, that we can do sort of
(43:57):
small groups.
So we're also working ongetting it out TBD when this
will happen, but we're going tocertainly create a course that's
on demand as well.
So I think the other part is,you know, we are trying to write
a book as well for fittherapists or high school
counselors or parents to use sothat they can say, all right, as
we are sending our students,slash babies, senior off into
(44:22):
the world.
You answer your questions.
What are the different areaswhere we can start to build some
of these skills or send themoff in a way that allows them to
be ready from the outset versusreacting to it.
Ready from the outset versusreacting to?
Speaker 4 (44:38):
it Bad, yeah.
So those are the ways to thinkabout it.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
But there's always, you know there's, I think, a lot
of it too, I would say, is talkto your, talk to your kid, you
know.
Talk to your senior to saywhat's the way that you like to
do it.
Some people are readers, somepeople are podcast listeners.
Some people want to have it bean audio book, other people are
big talkers, right, so it's thegreat news is now that there is
something for everybody.
It's just a matter of findingit and then saying, okay, let's
(45:01):
map out how you're going to getaccess to those resources when
you're not at home.
So, if it's the counselingcenter, how do you go there?
Where's the website?
If it's, I want to have acouple of books on hand, or
let's put those in your Kindle,and et cetera.
And so, seeing the way that notassuming that the way you
appreciate getting that help isthe same way that your child
(45:21):
wants to get help and saying,okay, let's figure out the way
you wanna do it.
Do you wanna go talk to yourcoach?
Do you wanna have a couple ofpodcast episodes on hand?
Do you just wanna have me onspeed dial on Sundays to do
check-ins?
It's gonna vary by each person.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
Yeah, and I'll just say quick oh, I was going to say
quickly and we just did a livepodcast with a local high school
and that'll be out in August,before the school year, with
former high school students whoare currently in college and
kind of presenting on our guideas well as asking questions
about like the specifics in thereach guide and like what were
the difficulties they had andstruggles.
(45:58):
And our hope is to do more ofthat so that we can really get
in the community to those, youknow, seniors, before they leave
the building, so that they have, you know, my hope some
knowledge, a little resiliencybefore they head off.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, so that all goes back to having that plan,
that contingency plan of of ofwhat you might do that you hope
you never need, right, right.
So so listening to your podcastis um really important and um
so let me ask you to reach youRight.
(46:34):
Yeah.
So I was going to let me askyou one more question, and then
I want you to give us the littlelist of how people can reach
you and where to find you andall of that.
But our other question that weoften like to ask is some people
are readers, especially parents.
Not so much the kids these days, but a lot of parents Are there
(46:55):
particular.
I mean, your book is not outyet, you're still working on it,
so we can't point people tothat yet.
But are there other sources orbooks that you would recommend?
Speaker 5 (47:09):
Yeah, for sure, and what we can do is because we
could particularly like rattlingit off the top of our heads
might feel, you know.
As for people furiously writing, down Right, right We'd be
happy to give you a list if youwant to put it in your show
notes.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
We'll do that, okay, so we'll add a list of other
resources to the show notes andthen just tell us and we will
also add it to the show notes.
How can people reach you ifthey want to or listen to the
podcast or find you?
Speaker 5 (47:37):
I know Liz has a harder stop than me.
You go first.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Okay, really quickly.
I know the book and I'm goingto forget it how to Navigate
Life.
It's from Boston College,professor Bell Lang.
It's wonderful, and they have acurriculum within Boston
College that's based upon thisto kind of find meaning and
purpose in your life andchoosing a career, et cetera.
My private practice is CBT ofRidgefield.
(48:02):
It's wwwcbtridgefieldcom.
Sarah and I are atcollegesfinepodcastcom
collegesfinepodcastgmailcom.
Um, we're on every platformthat you can listen to a podcast
on, and we're recentlylaunching our youtube, which
will have our faces.
(48:23):
Um, so we we know that a lot ofcollege students watch and
listen to podcasts, apparentlyon youtube yeah, see, we're
learning too.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
we're, you know, it's like the college people, a lot
younger and smarter than you.
And then I am, like I said, I'min Nashville, tennessee, and
it's drsaraholivocom.
We are always happy to hearfrom anyone, whether it's a
student who needs some help,some parents who have some
questions or someone who justwants to get a little bit more
information and be a guest onour show.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Okay, great Thank you .
So we will put all of that inthe show notes and thank you so
much for having us so muchinformation with us today, and
we'll hear from you again downthe line.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
Sounds wonderful.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Thank you so much for coming.
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