August 8, 2023 • 40 mins
In this week's episode, join Kim Clark as she engages in a compelling conversation with Miriam Khalifa, delving into the profound impact of messaging strategy as it relates to DEI. With a background rooted in political and public opinion research, Miriam's involvement in top-tier U.S. campaigns adds a unique perspective. The discussion centers around the crucial alignment between words and actions, emphasizing the necessity for corporations to uphold their messaging while remaining mindful of social causes. Kim and Miriam explore the vital link between genuine actions and communicated intent. The conversation also navigates the realm of DEI benchmarks, shedding light on the judicious employment of political communications. Tune in to this episode to uncover the path forward for organizational communications.
About The Guest:
Miriam Khalifa (she/her) is passionate about the power of communications and data to create organizational and social change. She began her career in political and public opinion research, shaping the messaging of top campaigns in the U.S. As a DEI strategist, she has leveraged communications and research to establish effective initiatives for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Currently, she does consulting and data analytics to optimize the impact of DEI strategies for financial services and technology companies.
Find Miriam Here:
About Kim:
Kim Clark (she/her) focuses her work on the communicator and content creator's role in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). She is the co-author of The Conscious Communicator: The fine art of not saying stupid sh*t, an Amazon #1 bestseller and the leading voice for DEI communications and social justice messaging for brands.
She speaks at conferences, writes custom workshops, writes inclusive communications guides, and consults with companies on all things related to diversity, equity, and inclusion communications. Kim is a member of the LGBTQ+ community, a cisgender woman, Native American (Muscogee Nation) and a mom of two kids with disabilities. These marginalized identities and the privileges that come with society seeing her as White motivate her daily for social change.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kim Clark (00:03):
Okay, thanks for joining on communicate like you
give a damn, I have a very coolguest, who, actually the way we
crossed paths Miriam was I thinkhe just reached out to me on
LinkedIn and maybe like asked mea question or you wanted to you
know, you wanted to get togetherfor a minute. And I ended up
(00:24):
like listening more to you andfascinated by your background
and your perspective of what waswhat's going on in the world.
And that's when I was draftingthe conscious communicator, my
chapters for the consciouscommunicator book. And I
thought, I think she has areally interesting perspective
(00:44):
that can be added to the book.And it just turned into this
whole thing. Like I'm sure likethe when you just reached out to
me called on LinkedIn, thatwasn't something that you
expected that you'd end up as acontributing author in a book,
Unknown (00:59):
by any means, but it was such a fortunate
circumstance. And I'm so gladthat you know, we met and the
rest has been history.
Kim Clark (01:09):
So I've gotten to know you over the time that
since we've originallyconnected, but introduce
yourself to our audience.
Miriam Khalifa (01:18):
Yeah, so my name is Miriam Khalifa, I am a Bay
Area native Oakland, born andraised still here. And I am a
dei strategist and researchenthusiast who believes in the
power of communications tocreate change.
Kim Clark (01:33):
Oh, I love it. So tell us about your path, like
how did you get into di I kindof what was the pulling vision
for you? And what's yourbackground?
Unknown (01:45):
Yeah, so, you know, I've always felt this kind of
innate sense of injustice in theworld, and almost like a
responsibility to see how I can,you know, make life better for
people, people of all walks oflife. And so, you know, the past
(02:05):
few years, have really beenfocused on creating equitable
opportunity for underservedcommunities, primarily through
corporate strategy, but alsothrough public policy. So I'm
currently building data drivendei and change management
strategies, primarily forfinance and other private sector
clients, as well as doingresearch on how to increase
(02:27):
equitable impact forunderrepresented talent, and how
companies can better supportthem. But prior to the EI, I was
doing political research andpublic opinion polling, which
was really centered aroundgaining insights, that shaped
messaging strategy, so forpolling this often was for
public policy, and, you know,big NGO campaigns. And then I
(02:51):
later on did the same thing forcongressional and presidential
campaigns where we knowmessaging is everything.
Kim Clark (03:01):
And how did you get interested in that?
Unknown (03:05):
Good question. You know, I think that I feel, I've
always felt politics is, youknow, the kind of center of of
who we are as a nation, andopportunity and experience, you
know, should be equitable foreveryone here, because, you
(03:27):
know, we're American citizens.And I think that I was drawn to
policy, because I saw that thisis a way to create widespread
change, and reach, touch, youknow, so many lives through,
through a simple thing, likecommunication strategy, the
impact is, is really magnified.And what I'll say is that it has
(03:53):
been a winding path through thatI'm working on various types of
campaigns, you know, initially,the polling that I was focused
on was was very much aroundsocial issues. So reproductive
rights, environmental justice,oftentimes, touchy subjects are
(04:13):
hard for, you know, publicdiscourse to really kind of wrap
its head around and, and moveforward on just because of how
things pull how polarized thingswere. And so the power of you
know, messaging strategy, andreally public opinion research
as a whole is that you're ableto tap into the values of the
(04:38):
people you want to reach andunderstand how do I get them
where I want them to be? How doI be most effective in what I'm
doing here? Whether that's, youknow, to turn out the votes to
get people to see you know,think differently about what it
means to be pro life, you know,you name it, but I was really
drawn to that idea. Have, we canshape the future of this country
(05:04):
just by the way that we messageto people and by the way, we are
able to speak to them and whatthey care about.
Kim Clark (05:11):
So there's a lot of skill set around persuasion and
influence. And a lot of that hasto do with speaking the language
of your targeted audience and toyour point tapping in to the
values and what what it is thatthey value. It's not, we're not
talking about company valueslike that sit on a badger, a
lovely poster in the breakrooms. This is genuine people's
(05:33):
like, what they value and thevalues that they stand for in
their life and being relate tothem in that way. Now, the what
you contributed to the end ofthe habitual chapter, so the
depth model is five pillars, dePth, deliberate, educated,
(05:56):
purposeful, tailored, andhabitual. And so we put you at
the end of the habitual chapter,because the title of your work
is communications for socialimpact more than a slogan. So
it's not like you're in, you'reout, right? It's not a one off.
That's not what this work isabout. So as a DI strategist who
(06:18):
really values and understandsthe power of communication, what
in this article and feel free toread some if you'd like? What is
the key takeaway that you hopethat the audience would get from
this work?
Unknown (06:31):
Yeah, thanks, Kim, happy to share, you know, a few
little clips that I think kindof embody the message I was
trying to get across. As aformer public opinion, and
political researcher, I learneda lot about the time and thought
that goes into a campaignsmessaging strategy. Public
opinion, polling falls under thebroader category of market
research, which is used toinform campaigns on the win over
(06:54):
their audiences, whether that bea product launch or an election.
The goal of market research isto understand your audience
segments and their values. Thisinformation informs the campaign
on how it can tap into thosevalues using communications,
regardless of whether the goalis to sell a product or get
constituents to learn and careabout an issue and then vote on
(07:14):
it. Companies use marketresearch to inform their ad
campaigns and generate sales.And candidates can win elections
based on their messaging, it'stime for organizations to
utilize similar strategies forthe social causes they speak on.
They're serious about goingbeyond performative
communications and want to makeprogress. Companies can instead
use their platforms to createand reinforce positive impact.
(07:39):
So I think that kind of sums upthe gist of my point. And you
know, it really is that it'sabout taking the time to be
authentic, intentional, and likeyou said, habitual. It's not,
you know, releasing a statementwilly nilly, or as kind of a
response to something that'shappening. It's really about,
(08:01):
you know, thinking through yourcompany's values, your company's
priorities and our track record,before speaking on an issue, and
asking yourself, you know, isthis something that we have
consistently prioritized andbeen, you know, public about? Or
are we responding to a currenttrend? Or maybe even responding
to backlash? Because we didn'tspeak out initially. You know,
(08:25):
and then lastly, asking yourselfone can we live up to what we're
saying, and to, is it in linewith the brand that we're
building, and everything that weplan to do going forward? That
last line as well, kind of, youknow, some sub Hey, like
conscious and habitualcommunications can do more than
just communicate, follow throughon your company's commitments,
(08:48):
they can also enhanceaccountability and increased
likelihood of actually achievingyour goals. Once you've put that
out there. And when crafted,well, they have the power to
reinforce and reinvigorate yourcompany's missions and values,
by tying those to tangibleactions that people can do
beyond the company.
Kim Clark (09:05):
That's definitely something I want to follow up
with you first. You know, youtalked about, you know, the
whole part of the title talkingabout more than a slogan, one of
the things in in you, youexpanded upon that and what you
just shared, one of the thingsthat I've seen consistently from
brands who don't do social causemessaging, well, is that they
(09:31):
may say, and even have the CEOsay, and, and in a formal
statement, we stand with theLGBTQ plus community or we stand
with the black community, westand with dot, dot, dot, but
then when you see their actionsthere, and they are actually
folding when there's any kind ofa whiff of a push back for some
(09:53):
some takes a little bit more ofa push back or, you know, you
know, allow it or push back or alot Longer pushback, but they
eventually still fold. So whatI'm seeing here is this this gap
of say and do, where we'll saythat we stand with the
community, but we're not able towithstand the pushback that, you
(10:16):
know, because we don't have thelegs underneath that we don't
have the strength, positionallyfrom a reputation standpoint and
the work behind it, to reallyhave the teeth to show that we
understand what we're saying.And this is how we're backing it
up. And we're going to withstandthis storm, if you will, and get
(10:36):
through it and continue to bewith the community that we are
advocating for. Because thesefolks are our customers, these
folks are our employees, and weare going to stand with them and
withstand any pressure to createa division between us and this
community in our customer andemployee base. So there's
there's a great opportunity forbrands to actually withstand and
(11:01):
not allow the division on theirwatch. You're a DI strategist,
you've talked about equitableimpact. And there's a lot of
folks who are interested in dimeasurement, that was something
else that you mentioned, aswell. So if you could help us
(11:22):
kind of understand, as a DIstrategist, what do you see as
the role of communications? Howdo you help communications
further equitable outcomes? Anddo you measure it? How do you
and if so, how do you measureit?
Unknown (11:40):
Great questions. So yeah, communications is actually
a really, really fundamentalpart of, you know, DDI strategy
and rollout. And oftentimes, Ithink communications, it's
required throughout the entireprocess, but where it becomes
really, really crucial, is thatlast piece where, hey, you know,
(12:03):
and data, I think, kind of flowsthrough this as well. So the way
that I think about this, and theway that, you know, I've done
this work is, you start byevaluating where you're at, you
can't make progress, if youdon't know, what to benchmark
to, and what you're working withwhat the underlying issues are.
(12:24):
And that's often the time whereyou first start looking at the
numbers. Right? Okay, so we cansay that, you know, everyone's
happy working here, or that wehave a great team, and we all
get along super well. But whenyou look, you know, by the
numbers, where's thatrepresentation? You know, where
(12:45):
are your underrepresentedemployees? Are they all coming
in a second year talent and thenleaving by their third year and
cycling through? You know, arethey? Are they in decision
making roles? How much, youknow, effect are they able to
have on the culture are theirvoices heard when they have
issues. And I think reallylooking at kind of the structure
(13:08):
of an organization is a greatway to benchmark and to work
forward. Especially when you'rethinking about, you know, D, I
think can be very intangible attimes, like, how do you put a
metric on someone's feelings,right, but you can survey them.
And you can say, this is whatwe're hearing right? Now, let's
(13:30):
come back. And it may not evenbe you know, as a consultant, I
may not be there in two years,when that survey takes place
again, and they have done thework and they have, you know,
invested time and money and beenpatient to see that follow
through. But if you come back intwo years, you should be able to
see, hey, we had 46% of ourfolks saying that they feel when
(13:52):
they raise a concern that it istaken seriously. And you know,
things are being done about it.Two years later, you should see
a noticeable increase. And so Ithink being, you know, realistic
about hey, what can we measure,and then doing everything you
can to get there is a reallyimportant piece of this on it's
often overlooked. And once youunderstand where you're at, then
(14:17):
you build a strategy for how toget where you want to go. And
that's where, you know,communications becomes really
important because you can, youknow, work with senior leaders
build as much strategy as youwant. But if they don't have the
tools and the change management,the implementation, you know, to
really get this on the groundand get everyone on board. Like
(14:40):
they're not the one you know,senior leaders are not the
people executing on this youneed your managers to understand
and be on board they need to beconsistently informed and and
you know, able to have a two waycommunication channel of I
understand this is where we'retrying to go. I'm having some
issues here. How do I workthrough this? They need You
(15:00):
know, playbooks, they needscripts, they need to be able to
talk to this to their ownemployees. And I think that
that's where this, you know,communications is really kind of
the make or break point. Becausestrategy is very pie in the sky.
And we can have the best ideasto make everything perfect. But
without that change managementpiece, it's not going to go
(15:22):
anywhere.
Kim Clark (15:24):
Great point. Great point. You were talking about
working with leaders andexecutives, then when we tie
that to your piece within theconscious communicator book, but
also your experience in workingas a political strategist, etc.
What are some of thesimilarities and differences
(15:46):
between the politicians and howstrat strategic messaging is
used in order to garner votesand ultimately meet the goal of
having that person thatcandidate elected? Versus is
there? Is there any kind ofsimilarity or a difference when
we're talking about our CEO andengaging our CEO? Are there
(16:10):
things that we can learn fromthe political messaging strategy
process that we can apply toengage our CEOs tapping into
diversity, equity, inclusion andcommunicating about it and the
values that are important to ouremployee in our customer? Base?
Unknown (16:30):
Yes, absolutely. I think there's a lot we can learn
from political, you know,communications, and just the way
that they operate thesecampaigns. But, you know, coming
into that world, I think thepiece that took me aback was
just how much dedication thereis, how much time is invested?
(16:53):
You know, this is, these aremonths long research projects,
sometimes even, you know, yearsnot. It's not like, oh, yeah,
just we think this sounds good.We think this will resonate
with, hopefully, the people aregoing to vote for us, you know,
there's such an investment intotime, you know, money and time
that goes into discovering howthey can most effectively use
(17:17):
messaging to reach their desiredoutcomes. And then once they
figure that out, they're very,very strategic on not only you
know, understanding ouraudiences is many different
groups combined with their own,you know, their own values,
their own opinions, and how dowe, you know, best reach those
(17:40):
different groups to gain buy infrom everyone that is on the
table for us. And I think that,you know, oftentimes we see
companies investing that sametime, those same resources into
what what would be consideredmarket research. But mostly when
(18:02):
it comes to, you know, findingproduct market fit, or driving
sales. And where companiesoftentimes diverge from
political communications, iswhen it comes to social impact
issues, you know, whether we'recalling that ESG, the AI doesn't
matter. We've often seen, youknow, especially since 2020,
(18:25):
companies are kind of rushing toput something out saying
whatever sounds good reacting,as opposed to being proactive
and showing that this is a longterm commitment for them, you
know, not laying the groundworkto say, here's what we've done
so far. And this is why we care.And this is why we're releasing
this statement. And not beingconsistent. It's kind of oh, we
(18:48):
said it, that should be enough.And then then everyone forget
more
Kim Clark (18:52):
do you want from us? We said it. Exactly. And I
really appreciate that, becausethat's part of the habit is
being habitual, not just on thesurface level of talking about
it, but actually showing thework because one of the one of
our superpowers as communicatorsis visibility can drive
accountability.
Unknown (19:11):
Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, it's, it's
sad, because what we've seen asa result of the way companies
have handled this so far, is youknow, they're releasing
performative communications thatat times even contradicts the
company values and their trackrecord completely. But
(19:33):
ultimately, you know, you canget backlash from your your
customers, your employeesbecause they see through this
and not only have you lowered,you know, their trust and their
confidence in the validity ofthe work you say you're doing or
the causes you say you careabout, but it's also a discredit
to you know, ESG and dei work asa whole people see it as
(19:55):
Toothless when over and over.This is the trend
Kim Clark (20:00):
I really am so glad that you pointed out. While
everything that you've beensaying in specifically, the
investment of politicalcampaigns on research, what do
people care about? How do wemessage to that? What's gonna
win us that election. So if ourexecutives, if our CEO was that
(20:25):
politician, to, you know, alignwith employees and customers at
that level, the level ofresearch and understanding our
employees and what's importantto our employees, what's
important from a values basedbecause that's what you're
talking about is the values ofthis of the base that they're
trying to move, persuadeinfluenced vote for that person.
(20:47):
It's an it's like, anyrelationship where every day we
need to have them choose theirpartner every day, we want
employees to choose that job.And every time that we're doing
political campaign messaging, wewant that person to choose
ultimately, that candidate whenit comes time to vote, but that
(21:08):
we're, I haven't seen a lot ofthat Mariam where there's this
level of investment inunderstanding that we have to
understand our employees sowell, to understand what's
genuinely important to them, themonths of research, the
dedication, the the importanceof understanding, the
(21:29):
connection, which is theobjective of communication is
that connection between senderand receiver, we're seeing it
from a political standpoint,they understand what's at stake,
millions of dollars are spent,right. But we don't see a
similar commitment and processwithin companies, that to your
(21:51):
point, we could really learnfrom
Unknown (21:56):
under percent, and I think it's actually, you know,
employees, you know, that, thatis that is what the value of a
company, you know, they losetheir employees, they have
nothing. But I think, you know,especially for folks who if
you're expecting anyone in yourcompany, to actually feel
(22:17):
committed to what you're saying,and to maybe even be in charge
of rolling it out and doingsome, some work for you, so that
it isn't just, you know, hey, astatement, and then that's it.
Those people need extreme, youknow, they need to be bought in
like no other, they need to seethat you're invested, they need
to see that this goes all theway up to the top. And you also
(22:40):
need to be thinking about, youknow, different the different
audiences that you have, and theinformation that they need a
different cadences to besuccessful and to be kept in the
loop. It's not the same foreveryone, and you are going to
be talking to, you know, yourcustomers about the work that
you're doing for black livesmatter what have you very
(23:01):
differently than the folks whoyou're expecting to launch some
type of, you know, campaignaround and have the company say
this is the work we're doing andexpect them to execute on it.
Kim Clark (23:16):
You know, obviously, we are in quite a historical
moments, were given the socialcontext, you were just talking
about that referring to theclimate that we're in, where do
you see communications needingto go? And understanding the
importance of of communicationsas a key component of any kind
(23:38):
of successful efforts ofdiversity, equity inclusion
within organizations? Where doyou? Where do you see thing, you
know, organizationalcommunications needing to go in
order to show up and step up? Inthis incredible time in history?
Unknown (23:53):
Yeah, you know, I think we have started seeing some
companies really reflect andtake a look at themselves and
say, you know, what, instead ofjust releasing a statement on
some headline that we know,everyone is upset about and
expects to say something on, youknow, how have we either
(24:16):
contributed to the solution orthe problem, you know, and
owning that and really saying,hey, you know, if we're speaking
about LGBTQ rights, then, youknow, if we need to look at
ourselves and say, Do we have atrack record, to contributing,
you know, we're lobbying forcandidates, we're the ones
(24:38):
passing these measures, and, youknow, really kind of taking a
step back, taking the PR lensoff of things, and just being
real with people because at thispoint, you know, trust is key,
and like you said, I thinkthere, there has been a lot of
trust lost just in the way thatthese instances have been
(25:01):
handled by companies. And it'sreally time to just say, you
know, let's, let's just be real,we know that we have things to
work on. And then speaking aboutwhat you're planning on doing.
And, you know, I will say, Ithink this is a difficult time,
given, you know, being in theBay Area, we know, tech
(25:24):
companies have laid off, youknow, 10s of 1000s of employees.
We're market conditions are kindof uncertain. And I think it's
understandable to not constantlyhave results to show. And that's
why it's even more important tojust say, okay, you know, maybe
we have had to pause the workthat we were so public about,
(25:47):
and so proud of when we launchedin 2021. But being honest, and
saying, you know, what, this iswhere we're at, here's where we
have to go, here's maybe why wehaven't been able to make
change, or, you know, here'smaybe even we have to lay off
our di t give the reasoning,talk about, you know, what are
(26:09):
we going to do once we're ableto, and seeing this as as not
just a transactionalrelationship, but something that
you have to invest in, to regainfolks trust and to get them to
see, nobody's perfect, but thatthe effort is there, and it's
real.
Kim Clark (26:29):
Great, thank you so much. There's quite a few things
that went through my head as youwere answering different kinds
of conversations I've had withclients. And where I will go is
towards something that we'reramping into, which is the next
(26:51):
United States presidentialelection, where there are
candidates who have created anarrative, tapping into the
values of their base, usinglanguage that creates division
creates an us versus them, youknow, language such as work, you
know, being very committed toanti woke culture, when woke
(27:17):
isn't a thing, you know, Solanguage is being weaponized in
such a way that it ismanufacturing problems, and
stirring people up firing peopleup all for the political gain of
the person getting additional,you know, these candidates,
additional power. And so it'soften you know, said that when
(27:41):
candidates invent a culture war,or tap into a low lying culture
war, and then bring it to thesurface and add a lot of fuel to
the fire, they don't have anyother kind of political plan, or
social impact kind of plan. Whatare we doing about jobs,
climate, health care, you know,what we're going to talk about
(28:05):
not having bathrooms availablefor transgender people, you
know, and that's, that's wherethe millions of dollars of
donations are going to and thatthese are the biggest problems
is making sure that there's notdrag queens near kids, which is
a classic political move islike, we have to protect the
kids that Stokes this fear. Solanguage is being weaponized in
(28:25):
a political system that isdriving division within our
society, but also within ourbusinesses. So it's an
interesting time to just notjust watch, we have to do
something. And I'd love to hearif you have some advice for
organizations who are on theeffect or the impact impacting
(28:49):
side of these, the rhetoric ofthis narrative, where I know as
a dei communicator when someonesays, you know, everyone keeps
talking about they don't wantthis woke culture and I said, it
doesn't exist. It's it's, it'san illusion. And so this battle
of words that we're seeing playout created from a political
(29:13):
standpoint for political powerand gain, but organizations are
to your earlier point, reactiveright now, they are woefully
unprepared for handling thenarrative and regaining the
narrative to get to that pointof withstanding, if you will, do
(29:34):
you have any advice on that aswe enter into probably the most
contentious presidentialelection in recent history?
Yeah,
Unknown (29:45):
thank you for that. It's a very interesting
question. You know, typicallyI'm in you know, kind of
processing Oh, like, what shouldif I was still in politics, you
know, where do I think themessaging and where do I say If
there are missed opportunitiesthat need to be addressed, and
people don't usually ask about,you know, hey, as a as a private
(30:10):
sector, you know, business, howshould I be responding to these
things? And I think it does goback to looking at yourself, you
know, we've, we've had thisconversation of, we're seeing
these companies, with all thesestatements. Meanwhile there, if
you go and look at their, youknow, lobbying their donation
(30:31):
history, we know, not only arethey not doing anything for the
cause they're speaking out,they're actually a part of the
problem. And I think thatcompanies like that need to take
a hard look at themselves. Andthere, there may be companies
who say, you know, what, we'retaking a political stance on
this, we donate to thesecandidates, that's the values
(30:52):
that we're going to uphold. Andthat should be a very clear sign
to anyone who is or is planningon working there. To say, Are
these my values is this anenvironment I want to be in?
Maybe not. And knowing that, youknow, out the gate before
accepting that offer, I thinkfor you know, companies who
(31:12):
maybe have their heart in theright place, but are nervous to
take a stand. It's really, likeyou said, it's about stepping
back and realizing that basiclanguage has been weaponized.
basic human rights have been,you know, turned into partisan
issues. And you don't have to,you know, choose Democrat or
(31:36):
Republican, as a company, to beable to take a stand on these
things. If you care about youremployees, you know, what we
always hear all these companieshave values like, trust, and,
you know, compassion, andinclusion, or even going so far
to say, we're a family, which isits own thing. But you know, I
think,
Kim Clark (31:55):
yeah, I have thoughts on that as well, for another
time.
Unknown (32:00):
Watching it, that's a healthy alternative. But I think
that, you know, the, a lot ofthese companies have been around
for decades, maybe evencenturies, and the fundamental
company values shouldn't becompromised, because they don't
want to take a stand on apartisan issue, period. If you
care about your employees, andyou live up to your company's
(32:23):
mission, and everything thatyou've always said you stand
for, you shouldn't have to worryabout that you should be there
to defend and create space whereeveryone at your company feels
like they belong, you know,feels represented, and and
doesn't have to worry.
Kim Clark (32:44):
Yes, completely, completely agree. So, in your
opinion, from your perspective,what does communicating like you
give a damn look like or soundlike?
Unknown (32:58):
Yeah, communicating like you give a damn to me, I
think it falls along the samelines of everything that we need
speaking about. Again, it's, youknow, building long term
investment, maybe communicatingabout it all the time, but you
have built, whatever it takes toget to the impact, you want to
(33:20):
see, if you're saying you careabout something, let's see what
you've done to get to get to abetter place doesn't mean that
you've solved the world'sissues. But you know, we need
some continuity. And maybe, youknow, George Floyd is not in the
headlines any longer. Maybe, youknow, BLM is no longer as trendy
(33:42):
as it was. But if you said thatyou were going to reinvest in
black communities, you shouldstill be doing that. And you
should still be, you know, thework should be there. You should
keep people updated. Even if itdoesn't mean that you're
constantly releasing pressstatements, because it's no
longer a hot topic. But itdoesn't matter if people are
(34:02):
watching. That's the point. AndI think that's what makes it
authentic. And also the habitualpiece, right, communicating what
exactly you're doing, and theimpact that you're having both
internal and external audiences.And like I said, you know,
taking accountability, and justbeing real about, here's where
(34:23):
we're at, we're not perfect,this is not for PR, this is not
to, you know, see a cover asses.We're being honest about our
flaws and the good things thatwe're doing, because we care
about this issue. And it's notabout making us as a company
look good. It's about the peoplewe think we stand behind.
Kim Clark (34:45):
And that's really how we want the depth model to be
used is to ground people in hisauthenticity. And the T tailored
is specific to everyorganization's core
capabilities, so everybody cando something to you. earlier
point, you're not you don't youcan't solve all the things. But
what is your business? What isyour industry? Where do you have
(35:08):
influence? Where do you haveinnovation? There, that's where
you go, that's what you'reabout. And that's going to is
going to make you not only standbut withstand, and I loved your
examples. Thank you. So there'sso much more I could talk to you
about, maybe we'll have youback. Because, you know,
(35:28):
especially as we you know, buildup to November 2024. But, you
know, so how can yourfascinating you're into
research? I'm always fascinatedby research and what people are
what what the insights are fromdifferent kinds of research,
your dei strategists, where canpeople can follow you and
(35:52):
continue to learn from you
Unknown (35:54):
100% I am on LinkedIn, Miriam Khalifa, just type it in.
And you will find me there, youknow, talking about the
importance of communications,going off about you know,
current events, new technology,you name it, but very much
through a DI lens and lookingat, you know, how is this
(36:16):
impacting the folks that maybearen't in the conversation, and
maybe are being overlooked byall the hustle and bustle. And
you can also read my Pimaconscious communicator? If you
don't have the book already? Goget a copy. Yeah. I mean,
they're on these issues, youknow, from Kim, and other
communications and VDI experts,just a wealth of knowledge. So
(36:40):
what are you waiting for?
Kim Clark (36:42):
Absolutely, I couldn't said it better myself,
you really provide a very uniqueand very valuable perspective to
the book. So thank you, again,for your contribution. And for
trusting me, because you had noidea really what the book was
about, but you wrote for it, andyou trusted that it would be in
context of your work. And, and Ihope people really see that the
(37:05):
highlight of your work and yourcontribution to the book,
overall, really, is a tangibleway of how communicators can
start implementing this workwithin the organization. So
thank you very much for thatcontribution.
Unknown (37:20):
Thank you so much, Kim. It's it's been an incredible
opportunity to be a part of thiswork and, you know, to hear from
all of these voices, and to seesome real momentum. You know, a
lot of folks this is kind of ahidden issue, and it really is
so important to get where wewant to go.
Kim Clark (37:39):
I'll echo my daughter whenever she hits the high score
on the video game she likes.Let's go. Thank you, Kim.
Okay, thanks for joining on communicate like you
give a damn, I have a very coolguest, who, actually the way we
crossed paths Miriam was I thinkhe just reached out to me on
LinkedIn and maybe like asked mea question or you wanted to you
know, you wanted to get togetherfor a minute. And I ended up
(00:24):
like listening more to you andfascinated by your background
and your perspective of what waswhat's going on in the world.
And that's when I was draftingthe conscious communicator, my
chapters for the consciouscommunicator book. And I
thought, I think she has areally interesting perspective
(00:44):
that can be added to the book.And it just turned into this
whole thing. Like I'm sure likethe when you just reached out to
me called on LinkedIn, thatwasn't something that you
expected that you'd end up as acontributing author in a book,
Unknown (00:59):
by any means, but it was such a fortunate
circumstance. And I'm so gladthat you know, we met and the
rest has been history.
Kim Clark (01:09):
So I've gotten to know you over the time that
since we've originallyconnected, but introduce
yourself to our audience.
Miriam Khalifa (01:18):
Yeah, so my name is Miriam Khalifa, I am a Bay
Area native Oakland, born andraised still here. And I am a
dei strategist and researchenthusiast who believes in the
power of communications tocreate change.
Kim Clark (01:33):
Oh, I love it. So tell us about your path, like
how did you get into di I kindof what was the pulling vision
for you? And what's yourbackground?
Unknown (01:45):
Yeah, so, you know, I've always felt this kind of
innate sense of injustice in theworld, and almost like a
responsibility to see how I can,you know, make life better for
people, people of all walks oflife. And so, you know, the past
(02:05):
few years, have really beenfocused on creating equitable
opportunity for underservedcommunities, primarily through
corporate strategy, but alsothrough public policy. So I'm
currently building data drivendei and change management
strategies, primarily forfinance and other private sector
clients, as well as doingresearch on how to increase
(02:27):
equitable impact forunderrepresented talent, and how
companies can better supportthem. But prior to the EI, I was
doing political research andpublic opinion polling, which
was really centered aroundgaining insights, that shaped
messaging strategy, so forpolling this often was for
public policy, and, you know,big NGO campaigns. And then I
(02:51):
later on did the same thing forcongressional and presidential
campaigns where we knowmessaging is everything.
Kim Clark (03:01):
And how did you get interested in that?
Unknown (03:05):
Good question. You know, I think that I feel, I've
always felt politics is, youknow, the kind of center of of
who we are as a nation, andopportunity and experience, you
know, should be equitable foreveryone here, because, you
(03:27):
know, we're American citizens.And I think that I was drawn to
policy, because I saw that thisis a way to create widespread
change, and reach, touch, youknow, so many lives through,
through a simple thing, likecommunication strategy, the
impact is, is really magnified.And what I'll say is that it has
(03:53):
been a winding path through thatI'm working on various types of
campaigns, you know, initially,the polling that I was focused
on was was very much aroundsocial issues. So reproductive
rights, environmental justice,oftentimes, touchy subjects are
(04:13):
hard for, you know, publicdiscourse to really kind of wrap
its head around and, and moveforward on just because of how
things pull how polarized thingswere. And so the power of you
know, messaging strategy, andreally public opinion research
as a whole is that you're ableto tap into the values of the
(04:38):
people you want to reach andunderstand how do I get them
where I want them to be? How doI be most effective in what I'm
doing here? Whether that's, youknow, to turn out the votes to
get people to see you know,think differently about what it
means to be pro life, you know,you name it, but I was really
drawn to that idea. Have, we canshape the future of this country
(05:04):
just by the way that we messageto people and by the way, we are
able to speak to them and whatthey care about.
Kim Clark (05:11):
So there's a lot of skill set around persuasion and
influence. And a lot of that hasto do with speaking the language
of your targeted audience and toyour point tapping in to the
values and what what it is thatthey value. It's not, we're not
talking about company valueslike that sit on a badger, a
lovely poster in the breakrooms. This is genuine people's
(05:33):
like, what they value and thevalues that they stand for in
their life and being relate tothem in that way. Now, the what
you contributed to the end ofthe habitual chapter, so the
depth model is five pillars, dePth, deliberate, educated,
(05:56):
purposeful, tailored, andhabitual. And so we put you at
the end of the habitual chapter,because the title of your work
is communications for socialimpact more than a slogan. So
it's not like you're in, you'reout, right? It's not a one off.
That's not what this work isabout. So as a DI strategist who
(06:18):
really values and understandsthe power of communication, what
in this article and feel free toread some if you'd like? What is
the key takeaway that you hopethat the audience would get from
this work?
Unknown (06:31):
Yeah, thanks, Kim, happy to share, you know, a few
little clips that I think kindof embody the message I was
trying to get across. As aformer public opinion, and
political researcher, I learneda lot about the time and thought
that goes into a campaignsmessaging strategy. Public
opinion, polling falls under thebroader category of market
research, which is used toinform campaigns on the win over
(06:54):
their audiences, whether that bea product launch or an election.
The goal of market research isto understand your audience
segments and their values. Thisinformation informs the campaign
on how it can tap into thosevalues using communications,
regardless of whether the goalis to sell a product or get
constituents to learn and careabout an issue and then vote on
(07:14):
it. Companies use marketresearch to inform their ad
campaigns and generate sales.And candidates can win elections
based on their messaging, it'stime for organizations to
utilize similar strategies forthe social causes they speak on.
They're serious about goingbeyond performative
communications and want to makeprogress. Companies can instead
use their platforms to createand reinforce positive impact.
(07:39):
So I think that kind of sums upthe gist of my point. And you
know, it really is that it'sabout taking the time to be
authentic, intentional, and likeyou said, habitual. It's not,
you know, releasing a statementwilly nilly, or as kind of a
response to something that'shappening. It's really about,
(08:01):
you know, thinking through yourcompany's values, your company's
priorities and our track record,before speaking on an issue, and
asking yourself, you know, isthis something that we have
consistently prioritized andbeen, you know, public about? Or
are we responding to a currenttrend? Or maybe even responding
to backlash? Because we didn'tspeak out initially. You know,
(08:25):
and then lastly, asking yourselfone can we live up to what we're
saying, and to, is it in linewith the brand that we're
building, and everything that weplan to do going forward? That
last line as well, kind of, youknow, some sub Hey, like
conscious and habitualcommunications can do more than
just communicate, follow throughon your company's commitments,
(08:48):
they can also enhanceaccountability and increased
likelihood of actually achievingyour goals. Once you've put that
out there. And when crafted,well, they have the power to
reinforce and reinvigorate yourcompany's missions and values,
by tying those to tangibleactions that people can do
beyond the company.
Kim Clark (09:05):
That's definitely something I want to follow up
with you first. You know, youtalked about, you know, the
whole part of the title talkingabout more than a slogan, one of
the things in in you, youexpanded upon that and what you
just shared, one of the thingsthat I've seen consistently from
brands who don't do social causemessaging, well, is that they
(09:31):
may say, and even have the CEOsay, and, and in a formal
statement, we stand with theLGBTQ plus community or we stand
with the black community, westand with dot, dot, dot, but
then when you see their actionsthere, and they are actually
folding when there's any kind ofa whiff of a push back for some
(09:53):
some takes a little bit more ofa push back or, you know, you
know, allow it or push back or alot Longer pushback, but they
eventually still fold. So whatI'm seeing here is this this gap
of say and do, where we'll saythat we stand with the
community, but we're not able towithstand the pushback that, you
(10:16):
know, because we don't have thelegs underneath that we don't
have the strength, positionallyfrom a reputation standpoint and
the work behind it, to reallyhave the teeth to show that we
understand what we're saying.And this is how we're backing it
up. And we're going to withstandthis storm, if you will, and get
(10:36):
through it and continue to bewith the community that we are
advocating for. Because thesefolks are our customers, these
folks are our employees, and weare going to stand with them and
withstand any pressure to createa division between us and this
community in our customer andemployee base. So there's
there's a great opportunity forbrands to actually withstand and
(11:01):
not allow the division on theirwatch. You're a DI strategist,
you've talked about equitableimpact. And there's a lot of
folks who are interested in dimeasurement, that was something
else that you mentioned, aswell. So if you could help us
(11:22):
kind of understand, as a DIstrategist, what do you see as
the role of communications? Howdo you help communications
further equitable outcomes? Anddo you measure it? How do you
and if so, how do you measureit?
Unknown (11:40):
Great questions. So yeah, communications is actually
a really, really fundamentalpart of, you know, DDI strategy
and rollout. And oftentimes, Ithink communications, it's
required throughout the entireprocess, but where it becomes
really, really crucial, is thatlast piece where, hey, you know,
(12:03):
and data, I think, kind of flowsthrough this as well. So the way
that I think about this, and theway that, you know, I've done
this work is, you start byevaluating where you're at, you
can't make progress, if youdon't know, what to benchmark
to, and what you're working withwhat the underlying issues are.
(12:24):
And that's often the time whereyou first start looking at the
numbers. Right? Okay, so we cansay that, you know, everyone's
happy working here, or that wehave a great team, and we all
get along super well. But whenyou look, you know, by the
numbers, where's thatrepresentation? You know, where
(12:45):
are your underrepresentedemployees? Are they all coming
in a second year talent and thenleaving by their third year and
cycling through? You know, arethey? Are they in decision
making roles? How much, youknow, effect are they able to
have on the culture are theirvoices heard when they have
issues. And I think reallylooking at kind of the structure
(13:08):
of an organization is a greatway to benchmark and to work
forward. Especially when you'rethinking about, you know, D, I
think can be very intangible attimes, like, how do you put a
metric on someone's feelings,right, but you can survey them.
And you can say, this is whatwe're hearing right? Now, let's
(13:30):
come back. And it may not evenbe you know, as a consultant, I
may not be there in two years,when that survey takes place
again, and they have done thework and they have, you know,
invested time and money and beenpatient to see that follow
through. But if you come back intwo years, you should be able to
see, hey, we had 46% of ourfolks saying that they feel when
(13:52):
they raise a concern that it istaken seriously. And you know,
things are being done about it.Two years later, you should see
a noticeable increase. And so Ithink being, you know, realistic
about hey, what can we measure,and then doing everything you
can to get there is a reallyimportant piece of this on it's
often overlooked. And once youunderstand where you're at, then
(14:17):
you build a strategy for how toget where you want to go. And
that's where, you know,communications becomes really
important because you can, youknow, work with senior leaders
build as much strategy as youwant. But if they don't have the
tools and the change management,the implementation, you know, to
really get this on the groundand get everyone on board. Like
(14:40):
they're not the one you know,senior leaders are not the
people executing on this youneed your managers to understand
and be on board they need to beconsistently informed and and
you know, able to have a two waycommunication channel of I
understand this is where we'retrying to go. I'm having some
issues here. How do I workthrough this? They need You
(15:00):
know, playbooks, they needscripts, they need to be able to
talk to this to their ownemployees. And I think that
that's where this, you know,communications is really kind of
the make or break point. Becausestrategy is very pie in the sky.
And we can have the best ideasto make everything perfect. But
without that change managementpiece, it's not going to go
(15:22):
anywhere.
Kim Clark (15:24):
Great point. Great point. You were talking about
working with leaders andexecutives, then when we tie
that to your piece within theconscious communicator book, but
also your experience in workingas a political strategist, etc.
What are some of thesimilarities and differences
(15:46):
between the politicians and howstrat strategic messaging is
used in order to garner votesand ultimately meet the goal of
having that person thatcandidate elected? Versus is
there? Is there any kind ofsimilarity or a difference when
we're talking about our CEO andengaging our CEO? Are there
(16:10):
things that we can learn fromthe political messaging strategy
process that we can apply toengage our CEOs tapping into
diversity, equity, inclusion andcommunicating about it and the
values that are important to ouremployee in our customer? Base?
Unknown (16:30):
Yes, absolutely. I think there's a lot we can learn
from political, you know,communications, and just the way
that they operate thesecampaigns. But, you know, coming
into that world, I think thepiece that took me aback was
just how much dedication thereis, how much time is invested?
(16:53):
You know, this is, these aremonths long research projects,
sometimes even, you know, yearsnot. It's not like, oh, yeah,
just we think this sounds good.We think this will resonate
with, hopefully, the people aregoing to vote for us, you know,
there's such an investment intotime, you know, money and time
that goes into discovering howthey can most effectively use
(17:17):
messaging to reach their desiredoutcomes. And then once they
figure that out, they're very,very strategic on not only you
know, understanding ouraudiences is many different
groups combined with their own,you know, their own values,
their own opinions, and how dowe, you know, best reach those
(17:40):
different groups to gain buy infrom everyone that is on the
table for us. And I think that,you know, oftentimes we see
companies investing that sametime, those same resources into
what what would be consideredmarket research. But mostly when
(18:02):
it comes to, you know, findingproduct market fit, or driving
sales. And where companiesoftentimes diverge from
political communications, iswhen it comes to social impact
issues, you know, whether we'recalling that ESG, the AI doesn't
matter. We've often seen, youknow, especially since 2020,
(18:25):
companies are kind of rushing toput something out saying
whatever sounds good reacting,as opposed to being proactive
and showing that this is a longterm commitment for them, you
know, not laying the groundworkto say, here's what we've done
so far. And this is why we care.And this is why we're releasing
this statement. And not beingconsistent. It's kind of oh, we
(18:48):
said it, that should be enough.And then then everyone forget
more
Kim Clark (18:52):
do you want from us? We said it. Exactly. And I
really appreciate that, becausethat's part of the habit is
being habitual, not just on thesurface level of talking about
it, but actually showing thework because one of the one of
our superpowers as communicatorsis visibility can drive
accountability.
Unknown (19:11):
Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, it's, it's
sad, because what we've seen asa result of the way companies
have handled this so far, is youknow, they're releasing
performative communications thatat times even contradicts the
company values and their trackrecord completely. But
(19:33):
ultimately, you know, you canget backlash from your your
customers, your employeesbecause they see through this
and not only have you lowered,you know, their trust and their
confidence in the validity ofthe work you say you're doing or
the causes you say you careabout, but it's also a discredit
to you know, ESG and dei work asa whole people see it as
(19:55):
Toothless when over and over.This is the trend
Kim Clark (20:00):
I really am so glad that you pointed out. While
everything that you've beensaying in specifically, the
investment of politicalcampaigns on research, what do
people care about? How do wemessage to that? What's gonna
win us that election. So if ourexecutives, if our CEO was that
(20:25):
politician, to, you know, alignwith employees and customers at
that level, the level ofresearch and understanding our
employees and what's importantto our employees, what's
important from a values basedbecause that's what you're
talking about is the values ofthis of the base that they're
trying to move, persuadeinfluenced vote for that person.
(20:47):
It's an it's like, anyrelationship where every day we
need to have them choose theirpartner every day, we want
employees to choose that job.And every time that we're doing
political campaign messaging, wewant that person to choose
ultimately, that candidate whenit comes time to vote, but that
(21:08):
we're, I haven't seen a lot ofthat Mariam where there's this
level of investment inunderstanding that we have to
understand our employees sowell, to understand what's
genuinely important to them, themonths of research, the
dedication, the the importanceof understanding, the
(21:29):
connection, which is theobjective of communication is
that connection between senderand receiver, we're seeing it
from a political standpoint,they understand what's at stake,
millions of dollars are spent,right. But we don't see a
similar commitment and processwithin companies, that to your
(21:51):
point, we could really learnfrom
Unknown (21:56):
under percent, and I think it's actually, you know,
employees, you know, that, thatis that is what the value of a
company, you know, they losetheir employees, they have
nothing. But I think, you know,especially for folks who if
you're expecting anyone in yourcompany, to actually feel
(22:17):
committed to what you're saying,and to maybe even be in charge
of rolling it out and doingsome, some work for you, so that
it isn't just, you know, hey, astatement, and then that's it.
Those people need extreme, youknow, they need to be bought in
like no other, they need to seethat you're invested, they need
to see that this goes all theway up to the top. And you also
(22:40):
need to be thinking about, youknow, different the different
audiences that you have, and theinformation that they need a
different cadences to besuccessful and to be kept in the
loop. It's not the same foreveryone, and you are going to
be talking to, you know, yourcustomers about the work that
you're doing for black livesmatter what have you very
(23:01):
differently than the folks whoyou're expecting to launch some
type of, you know, campaignaround and have the company say
this is the work we're doing andexpect them to execute on it.
Kim Clark (23:16):
You know, obviously, we are in quite a historical
moments, were given the socialcontext, you were just talking
about that referring to theclimate that we're in, where do
you see communications needingto go? And understanding the
importance of of communicationsas a key component of any kind
(23:38):
of successful efforts ofdiversity, equity inclusion
within organizations? Where doyou? Where do you see thing, you
know, organizationalcommunications needing to go in
order to show up and step up? Inthis incredible time in history?
Unknown (23:53):
Yeah, you know, I think we have started seeing some
companies really reflect andtake a look at themselves and
say, you know, what, instead ofjust releasing a statement on
some headline that we know,everyone is upset about and
expects to say something on, youknow, how have we either
(24:16):
contributed to the solution orthe problem, you know, and
owning that and really saying,hey, you know, if we're speaking
about LGBTQ rights, then, youknow, if we need to look at
ourselves and say, Do we have atrack record, to contributing,
you know, we're lobbying forcandidates, we're the ones
(24:38):
passing these measures, and, youknow, really kind of taking a
step back, taking the PR lensoff of things, and just being
real with people because at thispoint, you know, trust is key,
and like you said, I thinkthere, there has been a lot of
trust lost just in the way thatthese instances have been
(25:01):
handled by companies. And it'sreally time to just say, you
know, let's, let's just be real,we know that we have things to
work on. And then speaking aboutwhat you're planning on doing.
And, you know, I will say, Ithink this is a difficult time,
given, you know, being in theBay Area, we know, tech
(25:24):
companies have laid off, youknow, 10s of 1000s of employees.
We're market conditions are kindof uncertain. And I think it's
understandable to not constantlyhave results to show. And that's
why it's even more important tojust say, okay, you know, maybe
we have had to pause the workthat we were so public about,
(25:47):
and so proud of when we launchedin 2021. But being honest, and
saying, you know, what, this iswhere we're at, here's where we
have to go, here's maybe why wehaven't been able to make
change, or, you know, here'smaybe even we have to lay off
our di t give the reasoning,talk about, you know, what are
(26:09):
we going to do once we're ableto, and seeing this as as not
just a transactionalrelationship, but something that
you have to invest in, to regainfolks trust and to get them to
see, nobody's perfect, but thatthe effort is there, and it's
real.
Kim Clark (26:29):
Great, thank you so much. There's quite a few things
that went through my head as youwere answering different kinds
of conversations I've had withclients. And where I will go is
towards something that we'reramping into, which is the next
(26:51):
United States presidentialelection, where there are
candidates who have created anarrative, tapping into the
values of their base, usinglanguage that creates division
creates an us versus them, youknow, language such as work, you
know, being very committed toanti woke culture, when woke
(27:17):
isn't a thing, you know, Solanguage is being weaponized in
such a way that it ismanufacturing problems, and
stirring people up firing peopleup all for the political gain of
the person getting additional,you know, these candidates,
additional power. And so it'soften you know, said that when
(27:41):
candidates invent a culture war,or tap into a low lying culture
war, and then bring it to thesurface and add a lot of fuel to
the fire, they don't have anyother kind of political plan, or
social impact kind of plan. Whatare we doing about jobs,
climate, health care, you know,what we're going to talk about
(28:05):
not having bathrooms availablefor transgender people, you
know, and that's, that's wherethe millions of dollars of
donations are going to and thatthese are the biggest problems
is making sure that there's notdrag queens near kids, which is
a classic political move islike, we have to protect the
kids that Stokes this fear. Solanguage is being weaponized in
(28:25):
a political system that isdriving division within our
society, but also within ourbusinesses. So it's an
interesting time to just notjust watch, we have to do
something. And I'd love to hearif you have some advice for
organizations who are on theeffect or the impact impacting
(28:49):
side of these, the rhetoric ofthis narrative, where I know as
a dei communicator when someonesays, you know, everyone keeps
talking about they don't wantthis woke culture and I said, it
doesn't exist. It's it's, it'san illusion. And so this battle
of words that we're seeing playout created from a political
(29:13):
standpoint for political powerand gain, but organizations are
to your earlier point, reactiveright now, they are woefully
unprepared for handling thenarrative and regaining the
narrative to get to that pointof withstanding, if you will, do
(29:34):
you have any advice on that aswe enter into probably the most
contentious presidentialelection in recent history?
Yeah,
Unknown (29:45):
thank you for that. It's a very interesting
question. You know, typicallyI'm in you know, kind of
processing Oh, like, what shouldif I was still in politics, you
know, where do I think themessaging and where do I say If
there are missed opportunitiesthat need to be addressed, and
people don't usually ask about,you know, hey, as a as a private
(30:10):
sector, you know, business, howshould I be responding to these
things? And I think it does goback to looking at yourself, you
know, we've, we've had thisconversation of, we're seeing
these companies, with all thesestatements. Meanwhile there, if
you go and look at their, youknow, lobbying their donation
(30:31):
history, we know, not only arethey not doing anything for the
cause they're speaking out,they're actually a part of the
problem. And I think thatcompanies like that need to take
a hard look at themselves. Andthere, there may be companies
who say, you know, what, we'retaking a political stance on
this, we donate to thesecandidates, that's the values
(30:52):
that we're going to uphold. Andthat should be a very clear sign
to anyone who is or is planningon working there. To say, Are
these my values is this anenvironment I want to be in?
Maybe not. And knowing that, youknow, out the gate before
accepting that offer, I thinkfor you know, companies who
(31:12):
maybe have their heart in theright place, but are nervous to
take a stand. It's really, likeyou said, it's about stepping
back and realizing that basiclanguage has been weaponized.
basic human rights have been,you know, turned into partisan
issues. And you don't have to,you know, choose Democrat or
(31:36):
Republican, as a company, to beable to take a stand on these
things. If you care about youremployees, you know, what we
always hear all these companieshave values like, trust, and,
you know, compassion, andinclusion, or even going so far
to say, we're a family, which isits own thing. But you know, I
think,
Kim Clark (31:55):
yeah, I have thoughts on that as well, for another
time.
Unknown (32:00):
Watching it, that's a healthy alternative. But I think
that, you know, the, a lot ofthese companies have been around
for decades, maybe evencenturies, and the fundamental
company values shouldn't becompromised, because they don't
want to take a stand on apartisan issue, period. If you
care about your employees, andyou live up to your company's
(32:23):
mission, and everything thatyou've always said you stand
for, you shouldn't have to worryabout that you should be there
to defend and create space whereeveryone at your company feels
like they belong, you know,feels represented, and and
doesn't have to worry.
Kim Clark (32:44):
Yes, completely, completely agree. So, in your
opinion, from your perspective,what does communicating like you
give a damn look like or soundlike?
Unknown (32:58):
Yeah, communicating like you give a damn to me, I
think it falls along the samelines of everything that we need
speaking about. Again, it's, youknow, building long term
investment, maybe communicatingabout it all the time, but you
have built, whatever it takes toget to the impact, you want to
(33:20):
see, if you're saying you careabout something, let's see what
you've done to get to get to abetter place doesn't mean that
you've solved the world'sissues. But you know, we need
some continuity. And maybe, youknow, George Floyd is not in the
headlines any longer. Maybe, youknow, BLM is no longer as trendy
(33:42):
as it was. But if you said thatyou were going to reinvest in
black communities, you shouldstill be doing that. And you
should still be, you know, thework should be there. You should
keep people updated. Even if itdoesn't mean that you're
constantly releasing pressstatements, because it's no
longer a hot topic. But itdoesn't matter if people are
(34:02):
watching. That's the point. AndI think that's what makes it
authentic. And also the habitualpiece, right, communicating what
exactly you're doing, and theimpact that you're having both
internal and external audiences.And like I said, you know,
taking accountability, and justbeing real about, here's where
(34:23):
we're at, we're not perfect,this is not for PR, this is not
to, you know, see a cover asses.We're being honest about our
flaws and the good things thatwe're doing, because we care
about this issue. And it's notabout making us as a company
look good. It's about the peoplewe think we stand behind.
Kim Clark (34:45):
And that's really how we want the depth model to be
used is to ground people in hisauthenticity. And the T tailored
is specific to everyorganization's core
capabilities, so everybody cando something to you. earlier
point, you're not you don't youcan't solve all the things. But
what is your business? What isyour industry? Where do you have
(35:08):
influence? Where do you haveinnovation? There, that's where
you go, that's what you'reabout. And that's going to is
going to make you not only standbut withstand, and I loved your
examples. Thank you. So there'sso much more I could talk to you
about, maybe we'll have youback. Because, you know,
(35:28):
especially as we you know, buildup to November 2024. But, you
know, so how can yourfascinating you're into
research? I'm always fascinatedby research and what people are
what what the insights are fromdifferent kinds of research,
your dei strategists, where canpeople can follow you and
(35:52):
continue to learn from you
Unknown (35:54):
100% I am on LinkedIn, Miriam Khalifa, just type it in.
And you will find me there, youknow, talking about the
importance of communications,going off about you know,
current events, new technology,you name it, but very much
through a DI lens and lookingat, you know, how is this
(36:16):
impacting the folks that maybearen't in the conversation, and
maybe are being overlooked byall the hustle and bustle. And
you can also read my Pimaconscious communicator? If you
don't have the book already? Goget a copy. Yeah. I mean,
they're on these issues, youknow, from Kim, and other
communications and VDI experts,just a wealth of knowledge. So
(36:40):
what are you waiting for?
Kim Clark (36:42):
Absolutely, I couldn't said it better myself,
you really provide a very uniqueand very valuable perspective to
the book. So thank you, again,for your contribution. And for
trusting me, because you had noidea really what the book was
about, but you wrote for it, andyou trusted that it would be in
context of your work. And, and Ihope people really see that the
(37:05):
highlight of your work and yourcontribution to the book,
overall, really, is a tangibleway of how communicators can
start implementing this workwithin the organization. So
thank you very much for thatcontribution.
Unknown (37:20):
Thank you so much, Kim. It's it's been an incredible
opportunity to be a part of thiswork and, you know, to hear from
all of these voices, and to seesome real momentum. You know, a
lot of folks this is kind of ahidden issue, and it really is
so important to get where wewant to go.
Kim Clark (37:39):
I'll echo my daughter whenever she hits the high score
on the video game she likes.Let's go. Thank you, Kim.
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