November 15, 2024 • 44 mins
How did Chef David Burke rise from a time when being a chef wasn't highly regarded to become an international culinary ambassador? Listen as we promise to reveal the secrets behind his remarkable journey. From his inventive cake pop creations to his travels across 30 countries, Chef Burke's story is a testament to passion and perseverance in the culinary world.
Managing multiple restaurants across states is no small feat, especially with the intense work hours and extensive travel. Hear firsthand about the evolving dynamics within the culinary industry, including the impact of the pandemic on wages and workforce attitudes, the rise of celebrity chefs, and the generational shift in chef culture. Chef Burke shares his candid insights into the resilience required to thrive, touching upon the demanding lifestyle of a restaurateur and the challenges of keeping up with a changing industry.
He also reveals the lighter side of the restaurant industry by including his sense of humor, playful attitude and philanthropic efforts.
For more information on Chef David Burke:
David Burke Website
Ted Talk - Food is Joy, April 2022
https://www.ted.com/talks/david_burke_food_is_joy/transcript?subtitle=en
Mixed & Edited by Next Day Podcast
info@nextdaypodcast.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food.
I'm your host, Nancy Redland.
Let's dig in and get inspired.
Hi, everyone, Welcome back toConfessions Beyond the Food.
Today we've got a celebritychef in the studio.
Chef David Burke is welcomingus.
(00:21):
Hi, Chef David.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How are you?
Nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, good, good.
It's good to have you here fromNew Jersey, right or NYC.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm in New Jersey, Atlantic Highlands, down by the
border.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Is that God's country ?
Not?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
far from New York.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Nice, nice.
Well, we're excited becausewe're going to get to talk to
the guy that takes everydaydishes and turns them into
something amazing with a playfultwist.
He's opened a ton ofrestaurants.
He's an international chef thathas major accolades and was on
(01:00):
TED Talks.
You were on TED Talks.
That's amazing.
How was that TED Talks?
You were on TED Talks.
That's amazing.
How was that?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That was good, actually, it was really good.
It was hard to do actually.
It's hard to talk for 10, Ithink it was 20 minutes, 10
minutes.
You only talk for 10 minutes.
I went 18 minutes because I hadtoo much to say.
I was nervous about it.
It's hard to tell a story in 10minutes.
It was excellent and I spenttime trying to condense what I
(01:29):
wanted to say into thatparticular time, but I had a
good time doing it.
It was heartfelt.
The theme was joy and joy inwhat we do for a living, et
cetera, et cetera.
That was a good topic actually,so if you get a chance you
should check it out.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I did.
It was amazing.
I mean, everybody needs to gocheck that out.
In fact, I might link it tothis podcast description so you
can check it out.
But he gave you gave so muchinsight to your journey and also
, like you said, the joy of foodand taking chances and turning
(02:08):
the what, if to not a question,but an action.
You know and I just love thatabout you, and so you've done so
many awesome things what's themost, what's your most favorite
thing that you've got to do as achef?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, there's a lot of favorite things.
I think the best, one of thesurprising and unique things
about being a chef at my levelis the amount of traveling I've
got to do because of my craft ormy talent.
You know, I've been to 30countries.
Probably 20 of those countrieswere because I was invited to
(02:45):
cook, or I worked there, or Istaged there, or I lectured, or
I on a cruise ship that takesyou to three countries while
you're being paid, you know.
(03:12):
So it's kind of.
You know, you would not thinkthat, as a young cook trying to
become a chef and again I becamea chef my decision was in the
late 70s, when being a chef wasreally not looked upon as a high
profile job, to say the least,nor was it a celebrity job, nor
was it a entrepreneurial job.
(03:34):
It was a job, it was a hardworking job.
So it was.
So if you look at 1975 to 2025,50 years, 50 years what has
happened in the food industry isamazing, amazing.
What has happened to food inAmerica, food around the world
and the profession.
And the profession got shapedat the high level into something
(04:02):
special.
But it's still a profession ofroadblocks and pitfalls and
tough work and failure andsuccesses, but it's a grind.
There's nothing romantic orsexy Maybe it's sexy at times
about working the hours that agood chef has to put in.
(04:23):
It's a lifestyle, it's not ajob and that's basically it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You're giving up so much of life to put into the
lifestyle of uh being a chef, acelebrity chef, especially yeah,
and especially when you puteverything you know into
something and it's not receivedor it doesn't land the way it
should or you wanted it to.
Did that happen many times foryou?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Listen everybody, failures lead to successes.
You know you're going to haveto.
If you don't, if you're not outthere trying things and
learning from mistakes, you'renot really getting better.
There are examples of, you know, partnerships and deals that
you make and they hit grandslams, and then there's things
(05:09):
that don't necessarily work out,for whatever reason Locations,
partnerships, timing, economy,bad chef, bad manager, too busy,
couldn't adjust quick enough,bad lease, whatever it is.
I mean, you know there's somany things that go into a deal
and or a restaurant and there'sa lot of things that go into,
(05:29):
you know, a failure.
Creating a dish is nothing.
It's only a dish of food, amenu that isn't as good as the
other.
Right, I mean we, you know wecreate it.
I always think about awinemaker.
A winemaker has once a year tomake wine.
He's got to get it right.
Now, the technology is helpfulthese days, but a dish of food
(05:51):
we can create.
It costs a little money and alittle time.
But if it doesn't work, we fixit, we edit it, we tweak it, we
change it and then you keepcrashing like a sculpture.
You're molding and molding, andmolding, but we're using much
more than our hands and our eyes.
We're going to use our tasteand our sense of smell and
texture, seasonality, geographicrestrictions, dietary things,
(06:14):
all of that and it has to bebeautiful.
Not necessarily beautiful everydish, but there needs to be a
sense of style in what you putout.
I mean, if you put short ribson a plate, you know, are they
going to be as beautiful as ared snapper with this?
And I think maybe you know I uhbeauty's in the eye that we
hold it.
But then you know we're we'redealing with all the senses, so
(06:35):
we have a good opportunity toimpress.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Right, especially in this day and age, I mean with
reality TV and Instagram.
I like how you talk about thephenomenon of the Instagram chef
.
Can you describe, like, what anInstagram chef is and maybe
what filter they have thateverybody doesn't see?
Because I think in social wekind of put out our best faces,
(07:01):
right, and then you know, butwhat's really behind the you
know, behind the scenes is I'msweating and schlepping stuff
all over the place and so what,what does that lens um?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
there's.
There's this falseness ormisleading um the media, I mean
the team.
Food tv has been very good forthe industry for some reason, in
many, in many, in many regardsand has been very good for the
industry in many regards andalso not so good for the young
chef that wants to be a chef,because the reality of TV is not
(07:34):
necessarily the reality of whatthat person might be doing when
they pursue a career in thekitchen.
For example, if you watch aFood Network show or a, you know
you don't see the real sweatand grind, you don't see the
12-hour days, you don't see theworn-out sneakers and shoes and
the scars and the sweat and thedepression and the late nights
(07:58):
and the holidays and the familyproblems.
The divorce rate is crazy.
The drug and alcohol use ishigh.
The uh, the stress istremendous.
You know the failure rate orthe turnover.
There's very few chefs that havebeen with a company for 20
years super low, I don't, youknow, unless it's their own
(08:20):
right or you know, because youdon't.
You know there's no pensions,there's no 401ks, very few.
So it's a transient businessWith transient business,
turnover, inconsistency.
So there's a lot of that.
In fact, many people drop outof the business after their
culinary degrees have beenearned, just due to lifestyle.
So five years after getting outof culinary school, for example
(08:44):
, many people have changedcareers.
So five years after getting outof culinary school, for example
, many people have changedcareers.
So that is the negative side ofit.
The great side of it is if youreally love it, like an artist
or an athlete or an entrepreneuror someone that's like a
Broadway think about Broadwayperformers, fantastic talent,
right, and artists that aren'treally famous but are still out
(09:08):
there enjoying their art, thatare underneath that economic
bubble of hitting it big.
They're still doing what theylove.
And then you know the backuppeople in broadway.
They're working their butts off, but they're doing what they
love, and that's what a chef isreally doing.
They're doing what they love.
They're paid not necessarilywhat a tech person will be
getting paid, not necessarilywhat a corporate person will be
(09:29):
paid for the amount of time youput in, but you're doing
something that brings you joyand satisfaction and it's a cool
business, don't get me wrong.
It's fun, it's hard, but it'salso.
There's instant gratification.
On a daily basis.
You learn a lot.
The journey is cool, but you'repaying the price for it with
(09:50):
the hours that you put into that.
So it becomes a lifestyle.
It's part of your life.
It's not a job, it is yourlifestyle.
That's how I look at it.
When you get up on a Sunday andyou're going to work, brunch and
dinner, to me it's not Sunday,it's just another day, because
(10:13):
we're not missing golf, we'renot missing this.
We try to go to church here andthere, but that's what you do.
It's not like oh shit, I've gotto work Sunday.
No, that's what you do.
It's just you don't fight it,that's what you do, what you
have to do.
And, uh, you know, and I'm in apretty good position to work,
work less if I want to work more, but I find myself working the
(10:35):
same amount, if not more, whenyou become the owner, because
you've got, uh, now you gottareally manage multiple
properties.
So you know, but the journey toget here has been tremendously
eye-opening.
And, man, what a ride, right,what a ride.
And the changes and keeping upwith things, the industry is on
(10:57):
fire, right?
You would know, because you seeit.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean it is, it's constantly changing and
that's probably in its fast paceand for my brain it's it's,
it's a good thing.
But, um, I know that some ofthe people that look at what I
do and they're like, oh, thatlooks like really like a lot of
fun.
But um, then they really get toknow me and get to see my every
day and they're like, why doyou do that?
(11:25):
And that's really hard and youhave to love it.
You have to love the grind, youhave to find your passion and
and there's so many, like yousaid, highs and lows.
I mean within an hour, not likeyou know every, you know once a
week.
It's like I mean you can behere and then you know here and
everything is blown up and it'sjust crazy.
You know here and everything isblown up and it's just crazy.
(11:49):
And the way you guys handlestress is unbelievable.
I mean the pressure cooker thatyou're kind of on, you know
under.
So I like how you alsomentioned you know just what it
takes emotionally, you know, tobe in this industry and the hard
parts of it, the depression,and that's one of the reasons
I'm doing this podcast is toexpose some of this and give
(12:11):
some practical advice andencouragement to people that
feel despair, like losing theirfamily or things like that, and
so that's really cool.
So you, you mentioned alsomanaging a business and that, as
a business owner, I totally getit Like it's not just going out
and doing your craft right, andso you manage businesses, you,
(12:37):
you have a cookware line, youhave, you know, your the all the
engagements you probably do asa chef and also keeping up with
trends and innovation.
So when do you sleep?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Sleep is.
You know I get home.
You know, if I can get sixhours sleep solid, I'm pretty
good.
Sometimes I nap.
I'll take a nap in my officeand we're in my home office now,
so I have restaurants close tohome.
I'm an hour from New York Citybut I'll get up early usually
and get going at the table andthen take off to the restaurants
(13:14):
.
My day starts 7 am, no laterthan 8, and sometimes earlier,
and it ends probably at 9 or 10.
Sometimes it's six, seven days.
Some days are less, some daysare more.
Yesterday I opened a bakery.
I was here at 530.
I got home last night.
I got home, took a nap for anhour and then I get back at 9
(13:35):
o'clock.
Yesterday was a long daybecause the bakery is four miles
away.
Someone didn't show up.
I had to go.
So it's a lot of work.
I'm in my car a lot.
I drive 1,000 miles a weekbecause I have restaurants all
over the state of Jersey and NewYork and sometimes I go to
North Carolina.
But I sleep, you need sleep.
(13:56):
It's important to get goodsleep and get up positive.
Sometimes we have somerestaurants that are not doing
well this summer and thatstresses you out and we have
some that are doing well.
And then there's a lot of youknow the employee situation.
The workforce has changed quitea bit in the last few years.
Pandemic wasn't helpful.
(14:17):
The wages went up and thehustle went down, and that's how
I look at it.
And also there are a lot ofpeople that are in the industry
that really, honestly, don'twant to be great chefs.
They want to be chefs, theywant to be cool, they want to be
(14:37):
liked.
The chef world right now isadored.
Right, people like chefs.
Right, you see them onInstagram.
Who doesn't like food?
So you watch the shows.
And what other profession do youget called by chef?
You get called chef on thestreet.
They don't call people doctoron the street.
They don't call peopleastronaut on the street or
(15:01):
inventor or you know.
So it's like, hey, chef, youknow what I mean.
It's great.
It's great for us, it's greatfor the industry to a certain
degree, but it's also thatballoon.
Is that balloon?
You know one of the things?
So there's chefs.
There's chefs that are runningbusinesses and working
restaurants, like the onesyou're familiar with, that you
(15:22):
do business with, and thenthere's a chef who wins a
cupcake war and goes on a seasonof one of these shows and
becomes a celebrity without everreally running a restaurant or
being a chef in a restaurant.
Follow.
So they become a personalitychef on TV, which means they can
cook, but they're not chefrunning businesses, right?
(15:43):
So there's no levels here.
So you know.
Also there is.
You know, when a really goodchef is let go from a restaurant
for economic reasons, they makethe sous chef the chef, they
promote it.
It doesn't mean he's reallyqualified or she, so all of a
sudden it's a quick rise.
So, for example, there'sanother thing that one of the
(16:06):
things that bothers me about thechef world If I get my hair cut
, my fingernails cut or my grasscut, all of those people need a
license and a chef does notThink about that.
Someone that's feeding people,all these people, right.
So it's an industry that's justthese people, right.
So there's a.
It's an industry that's justloosey, goosey, right.
And that's where a lot ofpeople hide in this business.
(16:32):
Because there are.
You don't need the collegedegree.
I never.
I look at tons of resumes.
I don't look for where theywent to school.
I look at what they have done,what they can do.
I need a good baseball hitter.
I don't need someone that wentsix years of college.
I need someone that cooksomeone.
I don't need someone that wentsix years of college.
I need someone that cook,someone that can learn, someone
that works hard, someone thathas stamina and that has desire
and that wants to be real.
(16:53):
I want someone that wants myjob, but there's a lot of people
that just want to be in theindustry Because it's such an
adoring industry now.
Now it's cool to be a chef.
Slap a few tattoos on, don'tshave, put your hair in a
ponytail right, look rough andtough and you're off to the
races right Now.
That was never the case.
Fifty years ago.
You had to be clean, shaven,cut your hair, no nose rings, no
(17:17):
, this, no that, blah, blah,blah.
But the culture changes.
You wore a white coat.
A white coat was clean, right.
That was like a surgeon, so youcouldn't hide the dirt or the
stains, right, which you know.
I wear a white coat.
I'm old-fashioned and I respectthe history of the chef coat,
(17:37):
but again I wear a black onehere and there.
I'm not anti that, but I just.
You know, that was, that's mygeneration, but it's become this
kind of like cool thing now, asopposed to saying, the
discipline of doing things inthe hierarchy and working away.
So we need as many people as wecan, but I don't find that some
(17:58):
of the younger people come inwanting to really learn and get
to the next level as much as asin the 80s, where the, where the
, where the boom of whatamerican cuisine is today was
happening and the people comingout of the cooking schools and
working all wanted to be chefs,not just cook.
You know, there's people wehave that just want to cook, and
(18:20):
there's a lot of uh, or theywant, or the 30 years old, they
have a chef job and they're done.
Learning like this is this ismy repertoire, this is what I do
and this is what I'm going tocontinue to do, which I find a
little baffling, and the amountof chefs that also don't want to
do pastry.
They don't know, they don't,they don't think it's their job.
It's like, well, that's apastry chef job.
I'm a chef chef.
(18:41):
That means so there's been alot of change and it's only in
certain cases.
I'm not saying it's rampant Atthe higher end level and the
best restaurants in each cityaround America.
You do have that to get intothose restaurants and work.
You have that desire to be oneof the leaders in the future.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, I mean, I think about when I go into a property
and I say where's chef?
I don't even have to know thechef's name, I just say where's
chef and everyone points me to,you know, to the executive chef,
to the leader.
There's never like they don'tpoint me to the sous chef or you
know the chef de cuisine.
It's chef, that's all I have tosay.
(19:24):
I mean, it's definitely a titlewell-earned, and the leadership
qualities that go into that andthe grit and the grind.
I mean you have to work yourway up.
It doesn't happen overnight.
So that's one thing I respect.
I think, it's interesting,though, that you brought up the
whole licensing.
That is kind of scary to thinkabout.
I mean that you brought up thewhole licensing, that is kind of
(19:46):
scary to think about.
I mean, yeah, that's kind ofwild.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Well.
Well, therefore, you can really, behind the scenes, we don't
know who's cooking the food.
I mean, yes, there's a board ofhealth that has to be cleaned,
right, but there's nocertification for the level of
the chef, right?
So you go in and again, there'soften the chef quits,
(20:26):
no-transcript.
There's a lot of differentpeople from different cultures
and they're hard workers andeveryone, everyone that works in
a kitchen usually has to workhard, right, unless it's a quiet
restaurant, um, but you don'tneed, like I said, you don't
need a college degree, you don'tneed.
There's really very fewbackground checks.
(20:47):
You know it's not corporatecorporate, yes, in some of the
hotels and some of the otherthings are.
You know, drug testing and thisand that the restaurant
business, if you had a drug test, all the employees, you
wouldn't have no employees.
And we went through this yearsago, one of our, one of our uh
restaurants that we were in ahigh, high end building
(21:08):
department store and theyrequired us to test every
employee and we were like wecan't.
You know, 50 percent.
Now it costs 200 bucks for thetest, the hair and the whatever,
and half people fail.
So we were like this you know,we're spending all this money
doing the test because everybodylies about it, and so we wind
(21:28):
up changing that requirement tosoften it up so that we can get
more employees.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Interesting.
So if there's a chef that has,you know, maybe has accelerated
and is just has a burning desireto open his or her own new
restaurant, what do you?
I mean what do you think thatrequires?
And I mean when?
When should they make that jump?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, I think they know.
You know there's certain youhave to be really good and
recognized by the ownership ofthe building or me or someone
else.
Most of the chefs and I've gotsome of them that want they want
to open their own restaurants.
You've got to be recognizedsomehow and have a brand name to
(22:19):
get there or be able to put aninvestor group together or
somebody.
Or somebody came to me and said, listen, I'm ready to, I want
to be a partner or I have tomove on.
We would consider that if theywere with us making and they
knew the numbers and knew how tomake us money, why wouldn't we
want to lose?
Right, we would, we wouldfigure that out or we would say
(22:42):
we can't.
But right now, if you get thechef, can find a really good
paying job and the right package.
It's not very friendly for smallbusinesses to be in business.
It's very hard, right, theemployees that go to the
(23:13):
benefits you know the PTO days,the sick days and everybody
deserves that.
But the margins in a restaurantare very hard.
Food prices are up, labor is up, rent is up and the worker
these days, compared to 10 yearsago, wants to work less.
They don't want to work more.
They want to work less for more.
(23:34):
So now your payroll is ourenemy.
Right now, the food cost iscrazy.
So how much are you willing topay for chicken dinner when you
go to a good restaurant, a roastchicken or a steak?
Right, because I can tell youright now, in New York City,
you're in Dallas.
If you're in New York City, I'mgoing to be in Dallas next
month cooking with Dean Fury, soI have.
(23:59):
If you go to New York Cityright now and you eat a salad at
a bistro and a roast chicken,it's going to cost you 60 bucks.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
The salad is about $20.
Just a plain salad, if you wantsomething a little, it's called
.
The average appetizer in abistro is $20, $25.
Any chicken dish is $35, $45.
20 25.
Any chicken dish is 35 45.
Now if you want something youwant to sit, tuna tartare is an
app 26 27.
(24:32):
You want a filet, mignon is 60bucks.
So steak hat to go to asteakhouse you spend 125 a head,
no matter what.
Even that's what.
One glass of wine, maybe twotax tip.
So you do the math on that.
It's very expensive to eat out.
Corporate cards pick up some ofit, but myself even I live in
the suburbs I go out to dinneralone and have an appetizer and
(24:55):
a main course and a beverage.
No dessert.
Bread's $5.
It's cost me $80, $90 with taxand tip.
That's a lot of money.
It's $5.
It's costing me $80, $90 withtax and tip.
That's a lot of money.
If you go to a fast foodrestaurant and have a quarter
pound, or whatever you call it,a meal the fries and a burger or
(25:15):
something it's about $13 or $14.
That's a quarter.
That's four ounces of meat.
Four ounces of meat at $14.
Now if you go for aneight-ounce burger that we serve
right with fries.
Why don't we charge $28?
These $28 is a lot for a burgerin people's minds but it's the
(25:37):
equivalent of doubling the meat.
And even if you charge $22, itstill expensive.
Right for a burger 24.
But now the burger prices in arestaurant are above 20 bucks.
For most for a quality patty.
Right, an eight ounce burger orseven ounce burger, it's got to
be $24, otherwise can't makemoney.
Because then you got the bread,you got the pickle, the fries,
(26:00):
the ketchup, and then you andthen you have a burger at $25, a
glass of wine at $15.
You're at $40 for a burger, taxand tip $50.
Burger and a beer.
That's the reality of the worldwe live in now.
So now people are going to goout less.
They're going to order pizza,deliver it, they're going to
(26:20):
make their own food at home.
So instead of going out onTuesdays and Fridays for dinner,
you might only go out on Friday, and that's what we're looking
at.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
That's a burger.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
That's a burger Fifty bucks Burger and a beer.
So I mean, now think about it,how much would you spend a month
on eating out?
So we have to figure out how tokeep the labor costs low so
that and because the food costis high, so that we can.
You know, it's a juggling actand any of the veteran
restaurant tours will tell youthat it's harder to make money
(26:55):
now than ever.
And then there's lawsuits andthere's this and that and I
don't want to paint a grimpicture on your podcast
everything.
But there's all kinds of stuff.
We need protection foreverything Sexual harassment,
age discrimination, and even ifone of our other employees
harasses another employee, we'reresponsible for it.
So it goes on and on and on.
(27:16):
So if a chef can find a reallygreat job and get really good at
it, you've got to be carefulabout what you wish for and
being an entrepreneur, or makesure you go in with the right
deals 100% strong deal, protectyourself and go in with the
right group and don't rush it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and before you went into your own restaurant
did you talk to other people?
I mean to get the picture.
I mean I think that would helpif they went out and talked
about it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, my first venture as a partner was with a
big group that you know.
They had founded TGI Fridays inthe 60s and they owned Smith
Wrenski and so I was a 10% minorpartner, which allowed me to
learn some of the business of itand make some money.
And then I went on my own afterthat, had some bad partnerships
(28:09):
, had some good ones mostly goodand learned a lot.
But I'm telling you it's sodifficult, you know, because
it's you know it's ever-changingand it's competitive.
You know, once you get there,get there doesn't mean you stay
there.
Once you get to a top rankposition, you still got to work.
You're as good as your lastmeal and your last yelp and your
(28:31):
last this and and then again,listen to the word yelp, listen
to, we're under a microscope.
Every meal right and an opinionof someone that might their
opinion might not be valid.
The average person eats 90,000meals in their lifetime.
90,000.
Three meals a day, living tomaybe 80, 85.
(28:54):
I forgot how I did the math90,000 meals right.
Somebody has an overcookedburger and they try to strangle
you.
It's one meal.
The room for error is there andit's an opinion too.
So when people get so upsetabout a human error, whether
it's the waiter's fault for notordering it right, or the cook
(29:14):
didn't do it right or somethingalong the way, or it took too
long I mean, there's very fewprofessions.
You wait for a table in arestaurant for 45 minutes.
They're going to give you a badreview.
If the food took too long, badreview.
You wait.
Go to a doctor's office.
You wait an hour.
Nobody gives them a bad review.
It's not fair, nobody gives adentist a bad review for waiting
(29:37):
.
Well, it's just that we're heldto a different standard.
You know If the dentist had.
You know you go to the dentist,they get six rooms, one guy
working, a girl, woman, and theysit you in a chair and they go
from room to room and it's likeyou know, it's like a waiter.
They get six tables.
All right, I'm going to drillyou here, I'm going to do this
(29:59):
one.
It's a magical thing to seewhen you're good but you're
waiting while other people arebeing served too.
But you know, it's just acomparison.
So, yeah, the restaurantbusiness gets criticized a lot
and there's high expectationsand you've got to deliver.
(30:19):
And when people are opinionatedabout their food and and the
ambiance because they'respending, they're spending real
money.
You know, let's say, you go todentists, it's expensive, but
you know you don't know how tocompare that.
You know you can't compare thedentist to your.
Like, you compare a crab caketo the other crab cake down the
street, right, but that's.
(30:40):
You know, everyone's an expertin what they like and food and
the music and the drink.
And then there's the price tag,right.
So and people go out to eat,they drink.
So during the pandemic theywere drinking more than they
were eating.
And certain nights of the weekpeople will spend as much on
alcohol as food.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Wow, I know, and certain nights of the week,
people will spend as much onalcohol as food.
Wow, I know that's.
That's okay for us, because wemake more money selling alcohol
than food.
Well, when you're stuck at homewith two um gardener twin boys,
um yeah, drinks became reallyimportant to all of us parents
that had to be homeschoolteachers.
So yeah, but I mean thestruggle is definitely real.
So I mean with like, in thesechallenging times, and I find it
(31:29):
, as you know, on the other side, as being a vendor I'm like
speaking to the choir right now.
So where do you find your joy?
And amidst all these struggles,well, you uh.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
well, there's also triumphs too.
I mean, you know, you wake upand you see a restaurant.
Did you know?
Fifteen thousand dollars?
Last night we had a good night.
Numbers are in line, people arehappy, good reviews.
I walk through a dining room,people take pictures.
They, uh, they want to say hi.
They tell you that I was in oneof my restaurants last night.
Guys, I had the tilefish.
It was so good I'm like Ididn't know we had tilefish,
(32:04):
it's special.
So finally, I said that thechef has been listening.
And another guy came up to meand goes oh, and I saw the
tilefish come out because I gotthere real late and it was a
beautiful dish and there's asense of okay.
Now he's listening and thingsare working.
So when something starts workingand you're getting good
(32:24):
feedback, um, and you're in.
You know, august is tough forus up here, uh, so the numbers
are hard.
But when you see the chef andthe manager working together and
the reviews getting stronger,you know that the fourth quarter
should be really good.
And again, we, we want harmony,we put out fires all the time
and we want, uh, teamwork,communication, and when
(32:46):
something hits, it hits, youknow it's, and that's the way it
is.
We're oftentimes and duringthis podcast I don't want to
sound like everything is boomand doom.
It's not, not.
But I like to get the realityof the the situation out there,
because we're riding this highas the chef world, you know, and
I get all these people comingup and they want jobs and this,
(33:08):
and they go to school andthey're watching tv and that's
really, you know.
I tell people that.
You know, put your son ordaughter in the kitchen for
three months before you spend$150,000 on culinary food and
make sure that they understandwhat they're giving up.
And some people it's great andsome people it's not.
But that's that the joy is in alot of things.
(33:29):
The joy for me is creating gooddishes and designing
restaurants and making sure theywork, and also the triumphs.
But also there were our defeats.
You know we'll close a placehere or there and again you
can't get that attached to it,and one of the things I don't
like to do this.
But it's not necessarily afailure because we didn't give
(33:53):
it a good effort.
You know Babe Ruth struck out afew times You're not always
hitting the home run.
It's business is business isbusiness when it gets quiet.
You've got to adjust.
Sometimes getting up andstaying motivated is very
important.
Discouragement is not first ofall, it's not allowed.
(34:14):
You don't have time.
You get up, you coffee up, youget going and today's a new day.
The energy of a kitchen istremendous, hearing those hoods
going and the clackety-clack andthis and that and people, and
then the sizzles and this andthat.
Food brings joy anyway usuallyand there's high energy in
(34:35):
kitchens and waitstaff and thisand that.
But when it's good, it's good.
When it's good, it's good.
It's like three-point shotsgoing in all day long.
But when it's bad, you'rehitting a rim and you've got to
fix it.
You mentioned something earlier.
The amount of stress that youlearn to deal with is crazy.
(34:55):
And people say, oh, you must beso stressed out.
I haven't so stressed out.
I haven't been stressed out.
I've been stressed out for 45years.
But it's just something you'reused to.
It's you know, you deal with it.
You know there's a fire in arestaurant.
Someone didn't show up and I'mlike OK, it's a day Today.
We're going to have to getthrough and we will, and then
we'll find somebody better to dothis position and we have
(35:16):
experienced that this week.
But you know people getdiscouraged.
Oh, someone in the open.
Okay, we lost a few dollars.
This and that, let's get, we'llmake it up and let's make an
adjustment.
But you need therapists.
(35:43):
Not that we have them on ourpayroll, but we are.
There's a lot of issues andscheduling and everyone has a
problem A lot of part-timeworkers, a lot of single moms
and single parents that haveobligations on certain days, and
this happened.
You know it's a juggle.
It's a juggle but you figure itout.
(36:05):
I have a high school friend andshe lives down the street from
where I live and she's in thetech business and she made a lot
of money and she was helping usout with some admin stuff.
She's like I cannot believethis business.
This is the craziest businessI've ever seen.
She goes.
I can't believe.
First of all, she goes.
(36:25):
I can't believe how many hourssomebody works for that pay and
this was a highly paid chef.
She goes, but for that manyhours they make that it doesn't
add up.
(36:53):
And also there's, you know, andand the chaos, and the chaos and
the drama, because it's a drama, business and artistic, and the
there's sometimes not veryrespectful.
You're in a corporate office.
You don't walk into a corporateoffice with a McDonald's cup of
soda, right, with a straw.
You don't go into your officebuilding.
I don't think so.
But people walk intorestaurants with bottles of
water, like canteens and stuffnow, and I'm like I want a
coffee cup and they'll leave itsomewhere, like in the dining
(37:14):
room, right, they'll leave itsomewhere.
And my kids and I'll be likelisten, we have water, we have
coffee, we have soda, we haveliquor.
I asked the chef.
He came in with a canteen.
I don't know what was in.
It Could have been vodka, couldhave been Gatorade, I don't
know.
I said are you going hiking?
He said we got nine sinks inthe kitchen.
We got, you got 16refrigerators.
(37:35):
You can drink all the water andsoda you want.
I don't know why, but maybe Ihad a special form, this new
culture.
I was like I got to bring myown beverage into a restaurant.
It's crazy.
Most of it is.
We don't want people bringingthings in and taking things out,
because why would someone bringa knapsack to work and put in a
(38:00):
locker room?
The only thing you can do isfill it up and leave.
So there's a lot of that too.
Right you gotta.
We have things that people needat home silverware, wine
glasses.
So look at china.
Somebody moves to new york cityfrom ohio and gets their first
apartment or works in arestaurant.
Guess, guess what, why, what?
Why buy China glassware,silverware if you can take a few
(38:22):
home every night and thathappens all the time Toilet
paper, you know?
So there's theft, there's this,there's so many things it's
like, but at the end of the day,it's a wildly beautiful
business when you dial it incorrectly.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, and you have.
I mean your story.
I mean there's so much morethat I want to ask you about.
I mean because there's a wholenother story of your heart, like
in a society of, you know,being promoting self and things
like that, like you really helpthe community through
(38:57):
philanthropies, and I'd love totalk to you at another time
about that, because it's justamazing and it's really cool to
for for chefs, for people in theindustry, you know are just
patrons, you know, to listen andhear the stories, the real
stories.
You know the confessions beyond, you know what they just, you
(39:18):
know, sit down and have, youknow, their $40 chicken.
So that is just crazy.
So, but it's true, it is trueit's getting very expensive here
in Texas too.
But so before you leave, I haveto ask you what is your
confession today?
Do you have a confession,something that we might not know
(39:42):
about you hobby?
Speaker 2 (39:45):
uh what?
Yeah, I'll show you.
Well, I have a coupleconfessions I like okay I, my,
my, uh, my uh.
Guilty treat is Frozen WhiteCastle.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
No way.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
One of them I don't really Brenda's with me.
My sister, she's never seen meeat them, but and this is my,
this is my sidekick.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I see the trash can.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
This is left.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
If you are listening through our, you know Spotify or
Apple Music you guys need to goand look at the video.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Maybe Lefto Lefto's got a girlfriend now.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Oh, she's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's nutmeg.
She's a little crazy.
She likes her wine.
This guy during the pandemichelped me raise money to see the
heroes.
He was my left-hand man, hisname is lefto and he cooks with
leftovers hi hi, it's nice tomeet you this is, uh, I'm a
(40:47):
little, I'm a little funny, muchfunnier than I was on your
podcast, and we're usually muchmore upbeat, so I don't I feel
like I was just talking aboutall the negative, but we can do
it no, right, but he helped mecook during the pandemic.
We raised money for a couple ofcharities and he's he's my sous
chef.
But again, this kind of thejoking stuff that goes on with
(41:11):
the kitchen Kitchen is very muchsome in the restaurant business
.
If you don't have a sense ofhumor, it's very hard.
So one minute, like you said,the the ups and down, one minute
you're yelling about something,so the next minute you joke.
So we're a little, there's a,there's a, there's an amusement
park in the, in the minds ofmost chefs, especially the
creative ones, because you'regoing uphill, that, you're going
(41:32):
around, and then you go throughthe water and then you know,
and it's a crazy ride.
I was with one of my dear cheffriends named Dennis Gavin.
We went on a cruise togetherfor a week.
I worked for that cruisecompany, holland America, and he
was helping me as my sous chefand we were doing all these
things and we spent a weektogether, went all over Europe
(41:54):
and at the you know, and I'malways writing things down
creating the dishes.
So at the end I was, he wasgetting in his taxi in New York
and I was leaving.
I gave him a hug, he gave me ahug and he said he goes.
Burke, thank you for invitingme on a trip.
He goes.
It was great hanging out withall three of you Because we're
all over the map.
(42:15):
You know we're having threeconversations in our head at
once sometimes, and this andthat, and we might be talking
about something.
It goes away five minutes andwe come back to it.
That's the kind of brain youneed to be able to juggle
everything that goes on in therestaurant business.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Got to be a little crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Got to be a little crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And I have fun.
That's a great.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
T-shirt.
You definitely have to be alittle off-center because it's
too stressful and it's too hardto do base.
If you counted the hours youwork for the money you make, you
would be like this is nuts.
But you know, like I said, youcan't look at it that way.
You otherwise waiters, make moremoney than chefs if you looked
at it by the hour, and now thatwaiters won't have to pay taxes,
(42:56):
they'll make more, which isanother crazy idea, like, like
what I mean, you know that's.
Is it great for the waiter?
Yes, great for the waiter.
What happened to the cook?
Why is the cook paying taxesand the waiter doesn't?
I don't, I disagree with thatwhole platform, but that's
politics, so stay away from thatno, I mean there's there's so
(43:16):
many things so and I have somany more questions.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
But let's politics Just stay away from that.
No, I mean, there's so manythings and I have so many more
questions.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Let's do it again.
By the way, if you want to meet, I'm going to be cooking with
Dean Fearing.
I don't know what day, butFranda will let you know.
Come to the dinner.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Well, you guys need to check Chef David out on his.
He's on LinkedIn.
He has a websitechefdavidburkecom.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That is it, chefdavidburkecom.
And that's Instagram.
And Chef David Burke.
Yeah, that's our tag.
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
No, nice to nice to have you.
Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
For more inspiration inspiration follow our social
media.
At w3 sales.
Please like, comment andsubscribe.
You know all the things wewould love to connect with you.
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food.
I'm your host, Nancy Redland.
Let's dig in and get inspired.
Hi, everyone, Welcome back toConfessions Beyond the Food.
Today we've got a celebritychef in the studio.
Chef David Burke is welcomingus.
(00:21):
Hi, Chef David.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How are you?
Nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, good, good.
It's good to have you here fromNew Jersey, right or NYC.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm in New Jersey, Atlantic Highlands, down by the
border.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Is that God's country ?
Not?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
far from New York.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Nice, nice.
Well, we're excited becausewe're going to get to talk to
the guy that takes everydaydishes and turns them into
something amazing with a playfultwist.
He's opened a ton ofrestaurants.
He's an international chef thathas major accolades and was on
(01:00):
TED Talks.
You were on TED Talks.
That's amazing.
How was that TED Talks?
You were on TED Talks.
That's amazing.
How was that?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That was good, actually, it was really good.
It was hard to do actually.
It's hard to talk for 10, Ithink it was 20 minutes, 10
minutes.
You only talk for 10 minutes.
I went 18 minutes because I hadtoo much to say.
I was nervous about it.
It's hard to tell a story in 10minutes.
It was excellent and I spenttime trying to condense what I
(01:29):
wanted to say into thatparticular time, but I had a
good time doing it.
It was heartfelt.
The theme was joy and joy inwhat we do for a living, et
cetera, et cetera.
That was a good topic actually,so if you get a chance you
should check it out.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I did.
It was amazing.
I mean, everybody needs to gocheck that out.
In fact, I might link it tothis podcast description so you
can check it out.
But he gave you gave so muchinsight to your journey and also
, like you said, the joy of foodand taking chances and turning
(02:08):
the what, if to not a question,but an action.
You know and I just love thatabout you, and so you've done so
many awesome things what's themost, what's your most favorite
thing that you've got to do as achef?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, there's a lot of favorite things.
I think the best, one of thesurprising and unique things
about being a chef at my levelis the amount of traveling I've
got to do because of my craft ormy talent.
You know, I've been to 30countries.
Probably 20 of those countrieswere because I was invited to
(02:45):
cook, or I worked there, or Istaged there, or I lectured, or
I on a cruise ship that takesyou to three countries while
you're being paid, you know.
(03:12):
So it's kind of.
You know, you would not thinkthat, as a young cook trying to
become a chef and again I becamea chef my decision was in the
late 70s, when being a chef wasreally not looked upon as a high
profile job, to say the least,nor was it a celebrity job, nor
was it a entrepreneurial job.
(03:34):
It was a job, it was a hardworking job.
So it was.
So if you look at 1975 to 2025,50 years, 50 years what has
happened in the food industry isamazing, amazing.
What has happened to food inAmerica, food around the world
and the profession.
And the profession got shapedat the high level into something
(04:02):
special.
But it's still a profession ofroadblocks and pitfalls and
tough work and failure andsuccesses, but it's a grind.
There's nothing romantic orsexy Maybe it's sexy at times
about working the hours that agood chef has to put in.
(04:23):
It's a lifestyle, it's not ajob and that's basically it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You're giving up so much of life to put into the
lifestyle of uh being a chef, acelebrity chef, especially yeah,
and especially when you puteverything you know into
something and it's not receivedor it doesn't land the way it
should or you wanted it to.
Did that happen many times foryou?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Listen everybody, failures lead to successes.
You know you're going to haveto.
If you don't, if you're not outthere trying things and
learning from mistakes, you'renot really getting better.
There are examples of, you know, partnerships and deals that
you make and they hit grandslams, and then there's things
(05:09):
that don't necessarily work out,for whatever reason Locations,
partnerships, timing, economy,bad chef, bad manager, too busy,
couldn't adjust quick enough,bad lease, whatever it is.
I mean, you know there's somany things that go into a deal
and or a restaurant and there'sa lot of things that go into,
(05:29):
you know, a failure.
Creating a dish is nothing.
It's only a dish of food, amenu that isn't as good as the
other.
Right, I mean we, you know wecreate it.
I always think about awinemaker.
A winemaker has once a year tomake wine.
He's got to get it right.
Now, the technology is helpfulthese days, but a dish of food
(05:51):
we can create.
It costs a little money and alittle time.
But if it doesn't work, we fixit, we edit it, we tweak it, we
change it and then you keepcrashing like a sculpture.
You're molding and molding, andmolding, but we're using much
more than our hands and our eyes.
We're going to use our tasteand our sense of smell and
texture, seasonality, geographicrestrictions, dietary things,
(06:14):
all of that and it has to bebeautiful.
Not necessarily beautiful everydish, but there needs to be a
sense of style in what you putout.
I mean, if you put short ribson a plate, you know, are they
going to be as beautiful as ared snapper with this?
And I think maybe you know I uhbeauty's in the eye that we
hold it.
But then you know we're we'redealing with all the senses, so
(06:35):
we have a good opportunity toimpress.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Right, especially in this day and age, I mean with
reality TV and Instagram.
I like how you talk about thephenomenon of the Instagram chef
.
Can you describe, like, what anInstagram chef is and maybe
what filter they have thateverybody doesn't see?
Because I think in social wekind of put out our best faces,
(07:01):
right, and then you know, butwhat's really behind the you
know, behind the scenes is I'msweating and schlepping stuff
all over the place and so what,what does that lens um?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
there's.
There's this falseness ormisleading um the media, I mean
the team.
Food tv has been very good forthe industry for some reason, in
many, in many, in many regardsand has been very good for the
industry in many regards andalso not so good for the young
chef that wants to be a chef,because the reality of TV is not
(07:34):
necessarily the reality of whatthat person might be doing when
they pursue a career in thekitchen.
For example, if you watch aFood Network show or a, you know
you don't see the real sweatand grind, you don't see the
12-hour days, you don't see theworn-out sneakers and shoes and
the scars and the sweat and thedepression and the late nights
(07:58):
and the holidays and the familyproblems.
The divorce rate is crazy.
The drug and alcohol use ishigh.
The uh, the stress istremendous.
You know the failure rate orthe turnover.
There's very few chefs that havebeen with a company for 20
years super low, I don't, youknow, unless it's their own
(08:20):
right or you know, because youdon't.
You know there's no pensions,there's no 401ks, very few.
So it's a transient businessWith transient business,
turnover, inconsistency.
So there's a lot of that.
In fact, many people drop outof the business after their
culinary degrees have beenearned, just due to lifestyle.
So five years after getting outof culinary school, for example
(08:44):
, many people have changedcareers.
So five years after getting outof culinary school, for example
, many people have changedcareers.
So that is the negative side ofit.
The great side of it is if youreally love it, like an artist
or an athlete or an entrepreneuror someone that's like a
Broadway think about Broadwayperformers, fantastic talent,
right, and artists that aren'treally famous but are still out
(09:08):
there enjoying their art, thatare underneath that economic
bubble of hitting it big.
They're still doing what theylove.
And then you know the backuppeople in broadway.
They're working their butts off, but they're doing what they
love, and that's what a chef isreally doing.
They're doing what they love.
They're paid not necessarilywhat a tech person will be
getting paid, not necessarilywhat a corporate person will be
(09:29):
paid for the amount of time youput in, but you're doing
something that brings you joyand satisfaction and it's a cool
business, don't get me wrong.
It's fun, it's hard, but it'salso.
There's instant gratification.
On a daily basis.
You learn a lot.
The journey is cool, but you'repaying the price for it with
(09:50):
the hours that you put into that.
So it becomes a lifestyle.
It's part of your life.
It's not a job, it is yourlifestyle.
That's how I look at it.
When you get up on a Sunday andyou're going to work, brunch and
dinner, to me it's not Sunday,it's just another day, because
(10:13):
we're not missing golf, we'renot missing this.
We try to go to church here andthere, but that's what you do.
It's not like oh shit, I've gotto work Sunday.
No, that's what you do.
It's just you don't fight it,that's what you do, what you
have to do.
And, uh, you know, and I'm in apretty good position to work,
work less if I want to work more, but I find myself working the
(10:35):
same amount, if not more, whenyou become the owner, because
you've got, uh, now you gottareally manage multiple
properties.
So you know, but the journey toget here has been tremendously
eye-opening.
And, man, what a ride, right,what a ride.
And the changes and keeping upwith things, the industry is on
(10:57):
fire, right?
You would know, because you seeit.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean it is, it's constantly changing and
that's probably in its fast paceand for my brain it's it's,
it's a good thing.
But, um, I know that some ofthe people that look at what I
do and they're like, oh, thatlooks like really like a lot of
fun.
But um, then they really get toknow me and get to see my every
day and they're like, why doyou do that?
(11:25):
And that's really hard and youhave to love it.
You have to love the grind, youhave to find your passion and
and there's so many, like yousaid, highs and lows.
I mean within an hour, not likeyou know every, you know once a
week.
It's like I mean you can behere and then you know here and
everything is blown up and it'sjust crazy.
You know here and everything isblown up and it's just crazy.
(11:49):
And the way you guys handlestress is unbelievable.
I mean the pressure cooker thatyou're kind of on, you know
under.
So I like how you alsomentioned you know just what it
takes emotionally, you know, tobe in this industry and the hard
parts of it, the depression,and that's one of the reasons
I'm doing this podcast is toexpose some of this and give
(12:11):
some practical advice andencouragement to people that
feel despair, like losing theirfamily or things like that, and
so that's really cool.
So you, you mentioned alsomanaging a business and that, as
a business owner, I totally getit Like it's not just going out
and doing your craft right, andso you manage businesses, you,
(12:37):
you have a cookware line, youhave, you know, your the all the
engagements you probably do asa chef and also keeping up with
trends and innovation.
So when do you sleep?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Sleep is.
You know I get home.
You know, if I can get sixhours sleep solid, I'm pretty
good.
Sometimes I nap.
I'll take a nap in my officeand we're in my home office now,
so I have restaurants close tohome.
I'm an hour from New York Citybut I'll get up early usually
and get going at the table andthen take off to the restaurants
(13:14):
.
My day starts 7 am, no laterthan 8, and sometimes earlier,
and it ends probably at 9 or 10.
Sometimes it's six, seven days.
Some days are less, some daysare more.
Yesterday I opened a bakery.
I was here at 530.
I got home last night.
I got home, took a nap for anhour and then I get back at 9
(13:35):
o'clock.
Yesterday was a long daybecause the bakery is four miles
away.
Someone didn't show up.
I had to go.
So it's a lot of work.
I'm in my car a lot.
I drive 1,000 miles a weekbecause I have restaurants all
over the state of Jersey and NewYork and sometimes I go to
North Carolina.
But I sleep, you need sleep.
(13:56):
It's important to get goodsleep and get up positive.
Sometimes we have somerestaurants that are not doing
well this summer and thatstresses you out and we have
some that are doing well.
And then there's a lot of youknow the employee situation.
The workforce has changed quitea bit in the last few years.
Pandemic wasn't helpful.
(14:17):
The wages went up and thehustle went down, and that's how
I look at it.
And also there are a lot ofpeople that are in the industry
that really, honestly, don'twant to be great chefs.
They want to be chefs, theywant to be cool, they want to be
(14:37):
liked.
The chef world right now isadored.
Right, people like chefs.
Right, you see them onInstagram.
Who doesn't like food?
So you watch the shows.
And what other profession do youget called by chef?
You get called chef on thestreet.
They don't call people doctoron the street.
They don't call peopleastronaut on the street or
(15:01):
inventor or you know.
So it's like, hey, chef, youknow what I mean.
It's great.
It's great for us, it's greatfor the industry to a certain
degree, but it's also thatballoon.
Is that balloon?
You know one of the things?
So there's chefs.
There's chefs that are runningbusinesses and working
restaurants, like the onesyou're familiar with, that you
(15:22):
do business with, and thenthere's a chef who wins a
cupcake war and goes on a seasonof one of these shows and
becomes a celebrity without everreally running a restaurant or
being a chef in a restaurant.
Follow.
So they become a personalitychef on TV, which means they can
cook, but they're not chefrunning businesses, right?
(15:43):
So there's no levels here.
So you know.
Also there is.
You know, when a really goodchef is let go from a restaurant
for economic reasons, they makethe sous chef the chef, they
promote it.
It doesn't mean he's reallyqualified or she, so all of a
sudden it's a quick rise.
So, for example, there'sanother thing that one of the
(16:06):
things that bothers me about thechef world If I get my hair cut
, my fingernails cut or my grasscut, all of those people need a
license and a chef does notThink about that.
Someone that's feeding people,all these people, right.
So it's an industry that's justthese people, right.
So there's a.
It's an industry that's justloosey, goosey, right.
And that's where a lot ofpeople hide in this business.
(16:32):
Because there are.
You don't need the collegedegree.
I never.
I look at tons of resumes.
I don't look for where theywent to school.
I look at what they have done,what they can do.
I need a good baseball hitter.
I don't need someone that wentsix years of college.
I need someone that cooksomeone.
I don't need someone that wentsix years of college.
I need someone that cook,someone that can learn, someone
that works hard, someone thathas stamina and that has desire
and that wants to be real.
(16:53):
I want someone that wants myjob, but there's a lot of people
that just want to be in theindustry Because it's such an
adoring industry now.
Now it's cool to be a chef.
Slap a few tattoos on, don'tshave, put your hair in a
ponytail right, look rough andtough and you're off to the
races right Now.
That was never the case.
Fifty years ago.
You had to be clean, shaven,cut your hair, no nose rings, no
(17:17):
, this, no that, blah, blah,blah.
But the culture changes.
You wore a white coat.
A white coat was clean, right.
That was like a surgeon, so youcouldn't hide the dirt or the
stains, right, which you know.
I wear a white coat.
I'm old-fashioned and I respectthe history of the chef coat,
(17:37):
but again I wear a black onehere and there.
I'm not anti that, but I just.
You know, that was, that's mygeneration, but it's become this
kind of like cool thing now, asopposed to saying, the
discipline of doing things inthe hierarchy and working away.
So we need as many people as wecan, but I don't find that some
(17:58):
of the younger people come inwanting to really learn and get
to the next level as much as asin the 80s, where the, where the
, where the boom of whatamerican cuisine is today was
happening and the people comingout of the cooking schools and
working all wanted to be chefs,not just cook.
You know, there's people wehave that just want to cook, and
(18:20):
there's a lot of uh, or theywant, or the 30 years old, they
have a chef job and they're done.
Learning like this is this ismy repertoire, this is what I do
and this is what I'm going tocontinue to do, which I find a
little baffling, and the amountof chefs that also don't want to
do pastry.
They don't know, they don't,they don't think it's their job.
It's like, well, that's apastry chef job.
I'm a chef chef.
(18:41):
That means so there's been alot of change and it's only in
certain cases.
I'm not saying it's rampant Atthe higher end level and the
best restaurants in each cityaround America.
You do have that to get intothose restaurants and work.
You have that desire to be oneof the leaders in the future.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, I mean, I think about when I go into a property
and I say where's chef?
I don't even have to know thechef's name, I just say where's
chef and everyone points me to,you know, to the executive chef,
to the leader.
There's never like they don'tpoint me to the sous chef or you
know the chef de cuisine.
It's chef, that's all I have tosay.
(19:24):
I mean, it's definitely a titlewell-earned, and the leadership
qualities that go into that andthe grit and the grind.
I mean you have to work yourway up.
It doesn't happen overnight.
So that's one thing I respect.
I think, it's interesting,though, that you brought up the
whole licensing.
That is kind of scary to thinkabout.
I mean that you brought up thewhole licensing, that is kind of
(19:46):
scary to think about.
I mean, yeah, that's kind ofwild.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Well.
Well, therefore, you can really, behind the scenes, we don't
know who's cooking the food.
I mean, yes, there's a board ofhealth that has to be cleaned,
right, but there's nocertification for the level of
the chef, right?
So you go in and again, there'soften the chef quits,
(20:26):
no-transcript.
There's a lot of differentpeople from different cultures
and they're hard workers andeveryone, everyone that works in
a kitchen usually has to workhard, right, unless it's a quiet
restaurant, um, but you don'tneed, like I said, you don't
need a college degree, you don'tneed.
There's really very fewbackground checks.
(20:47):
You know it's not corporatecorporate, yes, in some of the
hotels and some of the otherthings are.
You know, drug testing and thisand that the restaurant
business, if you had a drug test, all the employees, you
wouldn't have no employees.
And we went through this yearsago, one of our, one of our uh
restaurants that we were in ahigh, high end building
(21:08):
department store and theyrequired us to test every
employee and we were like wecan't.
You know, 50 percent.
Now it costs 200 bucks for thetest, the hair and the whatever,
and half people fail.
So we were like this you know,we're spending all this money
doing the test because everybodylies about it, and so we wind
(21:28):
up changing that requirement tosoften it up so that we can get
more employees.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Interesting.
So if there's a chef that has,you know, maybe has accelerated
and is just has a burning desireto open his or her own new
restaurant, what do you?
I mean what do you think thatrequires?
And I mean when?
When should they make that jump?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, I think they know.
You know there's certain youhave to be really good and
recognized by the ownership ofthe building or me or someone
else.
Most of the chefs and I've gotsome of them that want they want
to open their own restaurants.
You've got to be recognizedsomehow and have a brand name to
(22:19):
get there or be able to put aninvestor group together or
somebody.
Or somebody came to me and said, listen, I'm ready to, I want
to be a partner or I have tomove on.
We would consider that if theywere with us making and they
knew the numbers and knew how tomake us money, why wouldn't we
want to lose?
Right, we would, we wouldfigure that out or we would say
(22:42):
we can't.
But right now, if you get thechef, can find a really good
paying job and the right package.
It's not very friendly for smallbusinesses to be in business.
It's very hard, right, theemployees that go to the
(23:13):
benefits you know the PTO days,the sick days and everybody
deserves that.
But the margins in a restaurantare very hard.
Food prices are up, labor is up, rent is up and the worker
these days, compared to 10 yearsago, wants to work less.
They don't want to work more.
They want to work less for more.
(23:34):
So now your payroll is ourenemy.
Right now, the food cost iscrazy.
So how much are you willing topay for chicken dinner when you
go to a good restaurant, a roastchicken or a steak?
Right, because I can tell youright now, in New York City,
you're in Dallas.
If you're in New York City, I'mgoing to be in Dallas next
month cooking with Dean Fury, soI have.
(23:59):
If you go to New York Cityright now and you eat a salad at
a bistro and a roast chicken,it's going to cost you 60 bucks.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
The salad is about $20.
Just a plain salad, if you wantsomething a little, it's called
.
The average appetizer in abistro is $20, $25.
Any chicken dish is $35, $45.
20 25.
Any chicken dish is 35 45.
Now if you want something youwant to sit, tuna tartare is an
app 26 27.
(24:32):
You want a filet, mignon is 60bucks.
So steak hat to go to asteakhouse you spend 125 a head,
no matter what.
Even that's what.
One glass of wine, maybe twotax tip.
So you do the math on that.
It's very expensive to eat out.
Corporate cards pick up some ofit, but myself even I live in
the suburbs I go out to dinneralone and have an appetizer and
(24:55):
a main course and a beverage.
No dessert.
Bread's $5.
It's cost me $80, $90 with taxand tip.
That's a lot of money.
It's $5.
It's costing me $80, $90 withtax and tip.
That's a lot of money.
If you go to a fast foodrestaurant and have a quarter
pound, or whatever you call it,a meal the fries and a burger or
(25:15):
something it's about $13 or $14.
That's a quarter.
That's four ounces of meat.
Four ounces of meat at $14.
Now if you go for aneight-ounce burger that we serve
right with fries.
Why don't we charge $28?
These $28 is a lot for a burgerin people's minds but it's the
(25:37):
equivalent of doubling the meat.
And even if you charge $22, itstill expensive.
Right for a burger 24.
But now the burger prices in arestaurant are above 20 bucks.
For most for a quality patty.
Right, an eight ounce burger orseven ounce burger, it's got to
be $24, otherwise can't makemoney.
Because then you got the bread,you got the pickle, the fries,
(26:00):
the ketchup, and then you andthen you have a burger at $25, a
glass of wine at $15.
You're at $40 for a burger, taxand tip $50.
Burger and a beer.
That's the reality of the worldwe live in now.
So now people are going to goout less.
They're going to order pizza,deliver it, they're going to
(26:20):
make their own food at home.
So instead of going out onTuesdays and Fridays for dinner,
you might only go out on Friday, and that's what we're looking
at.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
That's a burger.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
That's a burger Fifty bucks Burger and a beer.
So I mean, now think about it,how much would you spend a month
on eating out?
So we have to figure out how tokeep the labor costs low so
that and because the food costis high, so that we can.
You know, it's a juggling actand any of the veteran
restaurant tours will tell youthat it's harder to make money
(26:55):
now than ever.
And then there's lawsuits andthere's this and that and I
don't want to paint a grimpicture on your podcast
everything.
But there's all kinds of stuff.
We need protection foreverything Sexual harassment,
age discrimination, and even ifone of our other employees
harasses another employee, we'reresponsible for it.
So it goes on and on and on.
(27:16):
So if a chef can find a reallygreat job and get really good at
it, you've got to be carefulabout what you wish for and
being an entrepreneur, or makesure you go in with the right
deals 100% strong deal, protectyourself and go in with the
right group and don't rush it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and before you went into your own restaurant
did you talk to other people?
I mean to get the picture.
I mean I think that would helpif they went out and talked
about it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, my first venture as a partner was with a
big group that you know.
They had founded TGI Fridays inthe 60s and they owned Smith
Wrenski and so I was a 10% minorpartner, which allowed me to
learn some of the business of itand make some money.
And then I went on my own afterthat, had some bad partnerships
(28:09):
, had some good ones mostly goodand learned a lot.
But I'm telling you it's sodifficult, you know, because
it's you know it's ever-changingand it's competitive.
You know, once you get there,get there doesn't mean you stay
there.
Once you get to a top rankposition, you still got to work.
You're as good as your lastmeal and your last yelp and your
(28:31):
last this and and then again,listen to the word yelp, listen
to, we're under a microscope.
Every meal right and an opinionof someone that might their
opinion might not be valid.
The average person eats 90,000meals in their lifetime.
90,000.
Three meals a day, living tomaybe 80, 85.
(28:54):
I forgot how I did the math90,000 meals right.
Somebody has an overcookedburger and they try to strangle
you.
It's one meal.
The room for error is there andit's an opinion too.
So when people get so upsetabout a human error, whether
it's the waiter's fault for notordering it right, or the cook
(29:14):
didn't do it right or somethingalong the way, or it took too
long I mean, there's very fewprofessions.
You wait for a table in arestaurant for 45 minutes.
They're going to give you a badreview.
If the food took too long, badreview.
You wait.
Go to a doctor's office.
You wait an hour.
Nobody gives them a bad review.
It's not fair, nobody gives adentist a bad review for waiting
(29:37):
.
Well, it's just that we're heldto a different standard.
You know If the dentist had.
You know you go to the dentist,they get six rooms, one guy
working, a girl, woman, and theysit you in a chair and they go
from room to room and it's likeyou know, it's like a waiter.
They get six tables.
All right, I'm going to drillyou here, I'm going to do this
(29:59):
one.
It's a magical thing to seewhen you're good but you're
waiting while other people arebeing served too.
But you know, it's just acomparison.
So, yeah, the restaurantbusiness gets criticized a lot
and there's high expectationsand you've got to deliver.
(30:19):
And when people are opinionatedabout their food and and the
ambiance because they'respending, they're spending real
money.
You know, let's say, you go todentists, it's expensive, but
you know you don't know how tocompare that.
You know you can't compare thedentist to your.
Like, you compare a crab caketo the other crab cake down the
street, right, but that's.
(30:40):
You know, everyone's an expertin what they like and food and
the music and the drink.
And then there's the price tag,right.
So and people go out to eat,they drink.
So during the pandemic theywere drinking more than they
were eating.
And certain nights of the weekpeople will spend as much on
alcohol as food.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Wow, I know, and certain nights of the week,
people will spend as much onalcohol as food.
Wow, I know that's.
That's okay for us, because wemake more money selling alcohol
than food.
Well, when you're stuck at homewith two um gardener twin boys,
um yeah, drinks became reallyimportant to all of us parents
that had to be homeschoolteachers.
So yeah, but I mean thestruggle is definitely real.
So I mean with like, in thesechallenging times, and I find it
(31:29):
, as you know, on the other side, as being a vendor I'm like
speaking to the choir right now.
So where do you find your joy?
And amidst all these struggles,well, you uh.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
well, there's also triumphs too.
I mean, you know, you wake upand you see a restaurant.
Did you know?
Fifteen thousand dollars?
Last night we had a good night.
Numbers are in line, people arehappy, good reviews.
I walk through a dining room,people take pictures.
They, uh, they want to say hi.
They tell you that I was in oneof my restaurants last night.
Guys, I had the tilefish.
It was so good I'm like Ididn't know we had tilefish,
(32:04):
it's special.
So finally, I said that thechef has been listening.
And another guy came up to meand goes oh, and I saw the
tilefish come out because I gotthere real late and it was a
beautiful dish and there's asense of okay.
Now he's listening and thingsare working.
So when something starts workingand you're getting good
(32:24):
feedback, um, and you're in.
You know, august is tough forus up here, uh, so the numbers
are hard.
But when you see the chef andthe manager working together and
the reviews getting stronger,you know that the fourth quarter
should be really good.
And again, we, we want harmony,we put out fires all the time
and we want, uh, teamwork,communication, and when
(32:46):
something hits, it hits, youknow it's, and that's the way it
is.
We're oftentimes and duringthis podcast I don't want to
sound like everything is boomand doom.
It's not, not.
But I like to get the realityof the the situation out there,
because we're riding this highas the chef world, you know, and
I get all these people comingup and they want jobs and this,
(33:08):
and they go to school andthey're watching tv and that's
really, you know.
I tell people that.
You know, put your son ordaughter in the kitchen for
three months before you spend$150,000 on culinary food and
make sure that they understandwhat they're giving up.
And some people it's great andsome people it's not.
But that's that the joy is in alot of things.
(33:29):
The joy for me is creating gooddishes and designing
restaurants and making sure theywork, and also the triumphs.
But also there were our defeats.
You know we'll close a placehere or there and again you
can't get that attached to it,and one of the things I don't
like to do this.
But it's not necessarily afailure because we didn't give
(33:53):
it a good effort.
You know Babe Ruth struck out afew times You're not always
hitting the home run.
It's business is business isbusiness when it gets quiet.
You've got to adjust.
Sometimes getting up andstaying motivated is very
important.
Discouragement is not first ofall, it's not allowed.
(34:14):
You don't have time.
You get up, you coffee up, youget going and today's a new day.
The energy of a kitchen istremendous, hearing those hoods
going and the clackety-clack andthis and that and people, and
then the sizzles and this andthat.
Food brings joy anyway usuallyand there's high energy in
(34:35):
kitchens and waitstaff and thisand that.
But when it's good, it's good.
When it's good, it's good.
It's like three-point shotsgoing in all day long.
But when it's bad, you'rehitting a rim and you've got to
fix it.
You mentioned something earlier.
The amount of stress that youlearn to deal with is crazy.
(34:55):
And people say, oh, you must beso stressed out.
I haven't so stressed out.
I haven't been stressed out.
I've been stressed out for 45years.
But it's just something you'reused to.
It's you know, you deal with it.
You know there's a fire in arestaurant.
Someone didn't show up and I'mlike OK, it's a day Today.
We're going to have to getthrough and we will, and then
we'll find somebody better to dothis position and we have
(35:16):
experienced that this week.
But you know people getdiscouraged.
Oh, someone in the open.
Okay, we lost a few dollars.
This and that, let's get, we'llmake it up and let's make an
adjustment.
But you need therapists.
(35:43):
Not that we have them on ourpayroll, but we are.
There's a lot of issues andscheduling and everyone has a
problem A lot of part-timeworkers, a lot of single moms
and single parents that haveobligations on certain days, and
this happened.
You know it's a juggle.
It's a juggle but you figure itout.
(36:05):
I have a high school friend andshe lives down the street from
where I live and she's in thetech business and she made a lot
of money and she was helping usout with some admin stuff.
She's like I cannot believethis business.
This is the craziest businessI've ever seen.
She goes.
I can't believe.
First of all, she goes.
(36:25):
I can't believe how many hourssomebody works for that pay and
this was a highly paid chef.
She goes, but for that manyhours they make that it doesn't
add up.
(36:53):
And also there's, you know, andand the chaos, and the chaos and
the drama, because it's a drama, business and artistic, and the
there's sometimes not veryrespectful.
You're in a corporate office.
You don't walk into a corporateoffice with a McDonald's cup of
soda, right, with a straw.
You don't go into your officebuilding.
I don't think so.
But people walk intorestaurants with bottles of
water, like canteens and stuffnow, and I'm like I want a
coffee cup and they'll leave itsomewhere, like in the dining
(37:14):
room, right, they'll leave itsomewhere.
And my kids and I'll be likelisten, we have water, we have
coffee, we have soda, we haveliquor.
I asked the chef.
He came in with a canteen.
I don't know what was in.
It Could have been vodka, couldhave been Gatorade, I don't
know.
I said are you going hiking?
He said we got nine sinks inthe kitchen.
We got, you got 16refrigerators.
(37:35):
You can drink all the water andsoda you want.
I don't know why, but maybe Ihad a special form, this new
culture.
I was like I got to bring myown beverage into a restaurant.
It's crazy.
Most of it is.
We don't want people bringingthings in and taking things out,
because why would someone bringa knapsack to work and put in a
(38:00):
locker room?
The only thing you can do isfill it up and leave.
So there's a lot of that too.
Right you gotta.
We have things that people needat home silverware, wine
glasses.
So look at china.
Somebody moves to new york cityfrom ohio and gets their first
apartment or works in arestaurant.
Guess, guess what, why, what?
Why buy China glassware,silverware if you can take a few
(38:22):
home every night and thathappens all the time Toilet
paper, you know?
So there's theft, there's this,there's so many things it's
like, but at the end of the day,it's a wildly beautiful
business when you dial it incorrectly.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, and you have.
I mean your story.
I mean there's so much morethat I want to ask you about.
I mean because there's a wholenother story of your heart, like
in a society of, you know,being promoting self and things
like that, like you really helpthe community through
(38:57):
philanthropies, and I'd love totalk to you at another time
about that, because it's justamazing and it's really cool to
for for chefs, for people in theindustry, you know are just
patrons, you know, to listen andhear the stories, the real
stories.
You know the confessions beyond, you know what they just, you
(39:18):
know, sit down and have, youknow, their $40 chicken.
So that is just crazy.
So, but it's true, it is trueit's getting very expensive here
in Texas too.
But so before you leave, I haveto ask you what is your
confession today?
Do you have a confession,something that we might not know
(39:42):
about you hobby?
Speaker 2 (39:45):
uh what?
Yeah, I'll show you.
Well, I have a coupleconfessions I like okay I, my,
my, uh, my uh.
Guilty treat is Frozen WhiteCastle.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
No way.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
One of them I don't really Brenda's with me.
My sister, she's never seen meeat them, but and this is my,
this is my sidekick.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I see the trash can.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
This is left.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
If you are listening through our, you know Spotify or
Apple Music you guys need to goand look at the video.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Maybe Lefto Lefto's got a girlfriend now.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Oh, she's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's nutmeg.
She's a little crazy.
She likes her wine.
This guy during the pandemichelped me raise money to see the
heroes.
He was my left-hand man, hisname is lefto and he cooks with
leftovers hi hi, it's nice tomeet you this is, uh, I'm a
(40:47):
little, I'm a little funny, muchfunnier than I was on your
podcast, and we're usually muchmore upbeat, so I don't I feel
like I was just talking aboutall the negative, but we can do
it no, right, but he helped mecook during the pandemic.
We raised money for a couple ofcharities and he's he's my sous
chef.
But again, this kind of thejoking stuff that goes on with
(41:11):
the kitchen Kitchen is very muchsome in the restaurant business
.
If you don't have a sense ofhumor, it's very hard.
So one minute, like you said,the the ups and down, one minute
you're yelling about something,so the next minute you joke.
So we're a little, there's a,there's a, there's an amusement
park in the, in the minds ofmost chefs, especially the
creative ones, because you'regoing uphill, that, you're going
(41:32):
around, and then you go throughthe water and then you know,
and it's a crazy ride.
I was with one of my dear cheffriends named Dennis Gavin.
We went on a cruise togetherfor a week.
I worked for that cruisecompany, holland America, and he
was helping me as my sous chefand we were doing all these
things and we spent a weektogether, went all over Europe
(41:54):
and at the you know, and I'malways writing things down
creating the dishes.
So at the end I was, he wasgetting in his taxi in New York
and I was leaving.
I gave him a hug, he gave me ahug and he said he goes.
Burke, thank you for invitingme on a trip.
He goes.
It was great hanging out withall three of you Because we're
all over the map.
(42:15):
You know we're having threeconversations in our head at
once sometimes, and this andthat, and we might be talking
about something.
It goes away five minutes andwe come back to it.
That's the kind of brain youneed to be able to juggle
everything that goes on in therestaurant business.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Got to be a little crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Got to be a little crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And I have fun.
That's a great.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
T-shirt.
You definitely have to be alittle off-center because it's
too stressful and it's too hardto do base.
If you counted the hours youwork for the money you make, you
would be like this is nuts.
But you know, like I said, youcan't look at it that way.
You otherwise waiters, make moremoney than chefs if you looked
at it by the hour, and now thatwaiters won't have to pay taxes,
(42:56):
they'll make more, which isanother crazy idea, like, like
what I mean, you know that's.
Is it great for the waiter?
Yes, great for the waiter.
What happened to the cook?
Why is the cook paying taxesand the waiter doesn't?
I don't, I disagree with thatwhole platform, but that's
politics, so stay away from thatno, I mean there's there's so
(43:16):
many things so and I have somany more questions.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
But let's politics Just stay away from that.
No, I mean, there's so manythings and I have so many more
questions.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Let's do it again.
By the way, if you want to meet, I'm going to be cooking with
Dean Fearing.
I don't know what day, butFranda will let you know.
Come to the dinner.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Well, you guys need to check Chef David out on his.
He's on LinkedIn.
He has a websitechefdavidburkecom.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That is it, chefdavidburkecom.
And that's Instagram.
And Chef David Burke.
Yeah, that's our tag.
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
No, nice to nice to have you.
Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
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