August 16, 2024 • 36 mins
Join us as we sit down with the extraordinary Chef Bradford Thompson, a James Beard Award-winning chef, culinary consultant, and CEO of Bellyful Hospitality. Born and bred in New York City, Chef Bradford shares his experiences of raising a family in the heart of Harlem, where his kids have grown up with a love for cooking and an appreciation for the art of dining. From the bustling streets of NYC to opening over 40 restaurants across the country, Chef Bradford reveals the challenges and rewards of the culinary world.
In this episode, Chef Bradford and Nancy explore what it truly takes to launch a successful restaurant, offering insights from every angle of the industry. Learn how to appreciate the art of service and go beyond being just a critic.
Whether you're a foodie, aspiring chef, or simply curious about the behind-the-scenes of restaurant life, this conversation is packed with insights and stories that showcase the true spirit of resilience and creativity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food.
I'm your host, nancy Redland.
Let's dig in and get inspired,okay, so welcome back to
Confessions Beyond the Food.
Today I have a James Beard chef.
He's a consultant and he is aCEO of Bellyful Hospitality.
(00:26):
That's right, so welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Jeff Bradford.
Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Oh, so where are you joining us from?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hot-ass Dallas Texas.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Awesome, where are you from?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm from New York.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
New York yes, in proper New York City, in New
York.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
City.
Yes, okay, and I'm here inTexas for a couple of clients.
I get down here like once amonth, so it's so nice to come
down here in July and August.
It's so refreshing.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It is refreshing.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But I heard it's like really, really hot in New York
City.
It is.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's hot, human hot, but this is different.
It's a different kind of heat.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, it's really hot , so, anyway.
So New York City.
So how long have you livedthere?
Just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I've been there on and off for 25, 26 years.
That's awesome.
Yeah, quite a long time yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I mean how is it?
I mean, you have family, rightyou?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
have kids.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So how is it like raising kids in the city?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We love it, I mean, and we meaning my wife and our
kids both.
My wife, you know, has lived inNew York most of her life, um,
in different parts of New York,but our kids are both born in
Harlem and grown up in New Yorkand they love traveling but they
always love going.
They still love going back home.
Um, you know, they loveeverything New York has to offer
(01:45):
, the challenges, the craziness,but you know, the museums, the
eating out, the differentneighborhoods, they just they
love it.
And you know, we all, you know,I like to say, we use the city,
we go out, we go to differentboroughs, we eat everywhere, we
visit museums, use the parks,all that kind of stuff.
So it's a great place to live.
(02:05):
I mean, it's not easy, I'll behonest with you, it's not for
everybody, but luckily, you know, my wife and I love it and
luckily, our kids do now too.
So every time we go away, theyenjoy traveling and they always
go.
I'm ready to go home, or I'mglad to be back home.
They like where we live, sothat's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So are they interested in cooking Very much?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, they've been cooking each since they were, I
mean, two, three years old.
I've always kind of had them inthe kitchen with me and they've
both taken to it.
My daughter's taken a lot moreto baking, but they both cook.
My son does more cooking thanbaking.
He knows how to make propercocktails.
He's quite.
(02:48):
They're both quite the hostwhen people come over.
You know they're making tea andinfusing it and offering all
kinds of stuff.
But yeah, my daughter bakesalmost nightly and it's
beautiful.
But the frustrating thing isthat she's on Instagram or
TikTok.
But the frustrating thing isthat she's on Instagram or Tik
TOK and I have hundreds andhundreds of cookbooks and her,
(03:08):
her godfather's a pastry chef.
Her other godfather is a chefwho has a couple of restaurants.
I have all these books andeverything and she just she goes
online and finds things and shecooks without recipes, like
she's.
She's mastered a chocolate chipcookie.
It's as good as any I've everhad.
And I asked she doesn't have arecipe, it's in her head.
She knows the technique and I'mlike well, can we write it down
(03:29):
?
I always thought I'd have towrite down so she could make my
recipes.
And here I am like, can youwrite it down so I can make it.
So it's fun to watch that, likehow they interact with food.
And this generation is justobsessed with food.
You know social media, likeeverybody, anybody who's on
social media follows at least ahandful of food accounts.
And you know it's this weirdvoyeurism where people like
(03:54):
watching food be made or youknow dishes with a twist or that
look a certain kind of way.
But her, their generation, allher friends, like they know
ingredients, they know the coolrestaurants.
How do you guys know all this?
And it's you know it's mostlysocial media, but they're
they're very educated in termsof what they've eaten, where
they've been, especially youknow kids in the city where they
(04:16):
go for their birthdays.
It's it's kind of it's cool andit's also it's just it's kind of
hard to process sometimes, likehow do you know so much at 14
or 12 years old and you'retelling me where you want to go
for dinner or what kind of foodyou want to eat today?
And it's like I at that age Icouldn't even.
You know, I didn't know frommeatloaf and mashed potatoes.
That was like.
You know, I didn't know allthese Thai and Southeast Asian
(04:38):
flavors and dishes and they'relike rattling stuff off.
So it's it's fun.
It's really fun to go out toeat with them.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, you train them.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
well, I mean, you're out and about around the country
.
You cook for everyone, so yougo home and you're like okay,
kids, yeah, and they hear thestories of kitchen life 20 years
ago, when it was different thanit is now.
So they think that's veryentertaining also.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Oh well, that's a whole other podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, think that's very entertaining also.
Oh well, that's a whole notherpodcast.
Yeah, it really is.
They've.
They've probably heard morestories than they should have at
this point.
But I remember when they werelittle um, I mean they were five
or six or whatever and I was Iwas upset with them at something
.
I wasn't really yelling at them, but they're like, oh, you're
yelling at us, you're alwaysyelling at us.
I'm like I've never compared tohow I was as a chef, never
compared to how I was as a chef,like I've never yelled at you.
I've never raised my voice likethat and like, no, you're
(05:26):
yelling at us.
I said you know what, let's dosomething.
And I called a friend of minewho used to work for me and I
was, and I just handed the phone.
I said can you explain to themwhat daddy yelling is like?
And so he started telling themstories.
They're like, oh my God.
So that was kind of funny.
But yeah, they know all sides ofthe restaurant business.
But it's made them really greatdiners when we go out to eat.
(05:52):
They really they appreciategood service.
You know my daughter likes tosee the kitchen or you know
she'll say do we know anybodyhere?
Can we go say hi to the chef.
So they've experienced that.
So it's great.
It's not just like serve me andI'm going to eat this food.
They really understand what ittakes to create that experience
and they've seen it, you know,from both sides.
So it's really nice to knowthat they'll be able to
(06:12):
influence their friends in a way.
And you know, tip well and bepolite to your staff and all
those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And to serve others.
I mean I think that's somethingthat every child you know in
their teenage years or collegeyears.
You should wait tables or workor wash dishes or wash dishes
you should serve others and um,it's a great way to learn.
You know what it takes like itreally is patience and yes yeah
(06:38):
so um that not many people havethese days no, it's true like
yelp.
They're all like Yelp reviewers.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Right yeah, everybody's a critic.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, so well, today we're going to kind of talk
about kind of what it takes tostart up a restaurant, because
you've done a couple of those.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, I'm up to 40 something now 40?
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Wow.
So what was your?
I mean, what was the first onelike that you did?
I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Well, my, it's interesting, my whole career, or
the important stages of mycareer, have kind of been
accidents.
I I started cooking um.
I was in college, finishing up,and I was working at a Tony
Roma's um, like washing dishesand prepping, and it was kind of
a a job.
It was either that or startcoaching and like be a graduate
(07:25):
assistant.
Both made no money.
You know, I had just finishedplaying football.
I love football.
I thought that's what I wantedto do and I said, well, if I
work in this restaurant, the payis the same, the hours are the
same, I don't have to wear asuit and I get free food.
So I said, let me try this outand I did it.
I was there for like six monthsand taking classes and the guy
(07:47):
on the grill this guy hisnickname was Skates and like
really fast, talked a lot, butyou know, real great personality
, very outgoing.
He worked the grill and he wasreally good.
And we were in service onenight and I was in the back.
I was like peeling potatoes ormaking apple pies or something,
and like three police officerswalk in the kitchen, they
(08:08):
handcuff him, they take him outthe back door like he had
violated parole or something.
And this is in the middle likeyou couldn't make it up right
and in the middle of service andthe manager's like, come here,
come here, brad, come here.
And he hands me these tongs.
He's like, do you want to workover here?
And I was like, yeah, sure, whynot?
(08:35):
This seems like fun.
And you know, it was a raise inpay and I was on the line with
the cool guys.
I was like, yeah, sure, I'll dothis.
And that's that was kind ofwhere it started.
And you know, like again, itwasn't involved cooking, but it
was.
There was a process to followand I remember the guy who used
to work next to me, this guy,luis.
He always had the good weed, hewas like quiet, he had like
(08:56):
three jobs and he was the guyeverybody kind of learned from.
And I worked for like a week ortwo next to him and he started
grabbing his camera and he wouldmake food for himself during
the night and no one knew.
But he would like take themarinated chicken we're supposed
to be for the barbecue chickenand he would like toss it in
cornstarch and he would like getsome soy sauce and starch and
(09:19):
he would like get some soy sauceand he would do like stir fry
chicken.
I'm like where's this foodcoming from?
And he was just making it on astation to eat because he would
just eat during the night, andso he showed me how to make stir
fry chicken.
I still remember, um,ironically, at Tony Roma's
that's where I learned how tomake like it was like a general
so style chicken and hemarinated it in pineapple juice
and dredged it in cornstarch,threw it in the fryer and like
did this whole thing?
I was like, wow, that's cool.
So it's like I started seeing,like what you could do with food
.
You know, outside of the here's.
(09:40):
Here's.
The formula of Tony Rome iswhat you do.
Um, and that's when I startedgetting interested and that was
kind of how I started cooking.
So, um, and then fast forward.
I was at um Leverhaus in 2008before the big crash, and Lehman
Brothers was across the streetin Midtown and it was like our
biggest lunch client and the dayLehman Brothers went down, we
(10:02):
went in for lunch.
The next day there was threepeople in the dining room.
I was like, wow, this is, thisisn't going to end well, and
within a month the owner sort ofsold the business and told us
at the last minute it's like I'mgoing to close and just tell
them we're taking a break andit's over.
So I was at a point in my lifeI was about to turn 40.
We just found out my wife waspregnant and they closed the
(10:24):
restaurant.
And I was like, wow, this canbe a defining moment or, you
know, a disaster.
And I just didn't really knowwhat I was going to do.
I just didn't feel like takinganother job.
I knew that that was like youknow, all my friends are like oh
my God, where are you going towork?
What are you going to do?
And I was like I don't know ifI want to take another, like
this is false sense of securitywith a job.
And I got a call from a friend,Terrence Brennan, who had
(10:47):
Picholine and Artisanal at thetime and he had just taken over
a space.
And he calls me up and I wasliterally cleaning my desk out.
He calls me up.
He's like, hey, I'm reallysorry to hear about Leverhaus,
what are you doing?
I'm like I'm cleaning my deskout.
He said can you meet medowntown tomorrow?
I said sure, so I go down tomeet him and we meet in this
restaurant and we sit down andwe like have coffee.
(11:07):
And he's like so I'm takingthis place over on Monday and I
need help and I could use yourhelp.
I'm like, okay, I don't knowwhat that means, but sure, and I
knew him, but we had neverworked together.
And so I show up on Monday andhe hands me a piece of paper.
He goes here, you go, and I'mlike, okay, that's cool, I go,
that looks like a nice menu.
He goes, yeah, he goes.
I don't know anybody here.
(11:28):
So fire whoever you want.
Let's start pre open byThursday for the Tribeca Film
Festival.
I was like, what the hell areyou talking about?
Like I and I'm standing thereand he's like I'll be back in a
couple hours.
So somehow in a week, in lessthan a week, we we turned over
the products, we cleaned thestoreroom, we started figuring
(11:50):
these recipes out.
We ended up firing like threeor four people.
He sent a couple of people tohelp and I helped him open this
restaurant and spent like fouror five months with them and I
was like, wow, this is really.
This was cool.
Like, this was like you talkabout SWAT team.
This was just figure it out,take.
And then what I learned in thatprocess everything I knew
besides cooking, being aroundrestaurants and openings, how to
(12:12):
organize, how to delegate, howto figure shit out on the fly.
It was like, wow, this is, thisis kind of fun, this is a rush.
And then he didn't need meanymore and like so it was.
It was kind of that yo-yo oflike this is really intense.
And then it's like, okay, we'regood, I'm not going to pay a
consultant anymore, I'm got mystaff.
And then someone on that jobreferred me to somebody and I,
(12:34):
over the course of you know 10,11 years doing this, I've I've
done 40 something openings, nowall by word of mouth, being
referred by a contractor, akitchen designer or another chef
or whatever it might be.
So, yeah, and I've, in theprocess, have kind of found this
niche of mostly new restaurants.
I don't love doing the GordonRamsay come in and fix the
(12:58):
broken restaurant because itmakes great TV, but it's super
stressful and it doesn't stick.
There's always oh, that's nothow we used to do it, or my
cousin's the owner and I'm goingto do what I want to do.
So I've found a way to come into new restaurants very early on
way before they hire a chef,and be that voice of the chef.
(13:19):
Take the designers and thearchitects and make sure they're
building something that'soperational, keeping the owner
focused and clarifying theirconcept.
Bringing in the team I workwith the branding people, the
wine people, the servicetrainers and really keep the
restaurant on concept, make sureit's the right kitchen and then
develop the menu for them andthen do the training and
(13:40):
maintenance going forward.
So it's nice because I'm alwaysat a different phase of that
process with various people.
So there's days I'm in thekitchen for a period of time.
There's days I'm meeting withdesigners, working construction
sites, making sure things areinstalled properly.
So it's really a fun process.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So do you still get that rush every time?
Yeah, every time, because youcan't.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Everyone is different .
And there's like one of myconfessions, I guess I would say
because there's probably manybut I still miss that feeling,
that five minutes before service, when there's an espresso in
your hand and it's a fullreservation book and you're
standing there and the pass isclean, and it's just like that
anything can happen moment andyou feel as prepared as you can
(14:25):
be and then within an hour,something's happening you
weren't prepared for and I justto me.
That's what I always loved somuch is how quickly can we
figure it out?
Or how quickly can we dig outof being in the weeds?
How quickly can we figure itout, or how quickly can we dig
out of being in the weeds?
Or you know, how quickly is acook going to go down and need
help?
Or tell you they were preparedand they weren't prepared, like
(14:49):
it's just to me.
It's like kind of readingpeople at that time and seeing
that person is going to be introuble, I can tell.
Or this crew is ready.
Like it's just, there's anenergy to it that you can't
replicate and it's exhaustingand it's really stressful, but
there's nothing, there's nothinglike it and it was just.
I just always remember that thatcouple minutes before service,
you know, like the stainlesssteel is perfectly clean and
(15:09):
everything's lined up and thenapkins are all folded and and
you know, and the, like I said II used to have the the when I
was at the Phoenician, like thecoffee guy knew at like 4.52 to
have an espresso for me on thepass and just like everybody was
ready and within an hoursomebody was just falling apart.
It's the best, it's like thebest feeling.
(15:29):
And then you know, at the endof the night, that feeling at
the end of service, like yourfeet are tired.
You know I was working the passtired.
You know I was working the past, my voice was hoarse, you're
hungry, whatever, but it's likeso rewarding to know that like
180 or 250 people had an amazingtime or you made their
anniversary or their birthday orwhatever it is.
It's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, wow, I love how you describe that, like the
experience that you providesomeone.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, and a lot of cooks don't realize that, like
it wasn't until I was a chef andyou know the way.
Hey, chef, can you say hi tothis table?
Can you go to this table?
And you go in the dining roomand, like, you leave, leaving
the dining, leaving the kitchenfor the dining room, goes in the
(16:16):
dining room and then it's musicand dim.
You know candlelight and softlighting and the buzz and all
that.
And you go from this bright,hot environment, you know, with
a bright light, everyone'syelling and everyone's on edge.
And you go outside and thenit's like this calm, this dim of
the dining room, and you go outthere and like, and you walk by
in a chef coat and you could bea dishwasher.
But if you're in a chef coat,everyone's like what's the chef?
What's going on?
Who's he going to see, who doeshe know?
(16:38):
And there's a power to that, youknow.
But there's also there's aresponsibility when you see that
in people's eyes, like you know, the Phoenician was a good
example because it was soexpensive, like we knew that
this person might've beenwaiting all year for this
birthday celebration.
Like they're not eating hereonce a week or once a month.
So there's an incredible amountof pressure when somebody's
trusting you with, like I'mcelebrating my birthday or my
(17:00):
anniversary or whatever lifeevent, they're putting it in
your hands to make sure thatthey have an amazing time, and
you know.
So.
That's why when you, you know,when you go in the dining room,
when you see that you come backin the kitchen and it's like
stop for a second.
Just imagine like your wholepaycheck being spent for this
meal tonight.
You're plating their lamb andthis meal cost which is also the
(17:25):
screwed up thing aboutrestaurants but this meal might
cost what your paycheck is.
So when you start putting it inperspective, like, yeah, let me
take a second and make sureit's cooked perfectly, so yeah,
there's a joy to that, though,Do you see like a common thread
between chefs that have thatkind of I mean responsibility
and I'm relating to theirsuccess?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Is that something that is instilled in every chef
or no, I think it's a process.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I think I mean, obviously people are different,
but I think, as you come up, Icame up in a different time also
.
I came up in a time where, like, shut up and do what you're
told and hopefully you'll learnand take notes, and you weren't
allowed to really question thisgeneration and it's funny
because it's changed me as aperson but this generation now
you got to tell them why and notthat that's a bad like you
(18:15):
really should have been that way.
Um, but there was a sort of aprocess where you're not even a
cook, you're just prepping untilthey allow you to go near the
stove and then you're cookingand you're getting yelled at and
just do what I say do my menu,do my menu.
Then you become a sous chef andmaybe you're doing the ordering
and you're you're having menudiscussions with the team and
then you become a chef and yourealize, well, I'm not cooking
(18:36):
anymore, team.
And then you become a chef andyou realize, well, I'm not
cooking anymore, I'm managingpeople, I'm managing costs, I'm
trying to put creative seeds inpeople's heads to develop,
because I don't have time,because I'm in meetings or all
the obligations.
So it's an evolutionary processthat happens.
And so when you get to thatpoint you kind of have a choice
to say, okay, I got screamed andyelled at, this is going to be
(18:59):
my style.
Or you say I'm going to learnthose lessons, but I can do it
in a different way because Iwant to.
That's not the environment Iwant, and you make those choices
in any career.
You make those choices as youadvance of who do I want to be,
what kind of environment do Iwant to foster, and you see the
results pretty soon.
(19:19):
So if you become a screamer anda yeller, you know your
kitchen's on edge and I'm notgoing to lie, I had that in me
in the beginning.
And then you realize, like, letme be a teacher and just share
everything I know and get theirideas and be a better team and
come up with things as a group.
And then you feel, once youfeel that environment being
developed, then you attractpeople that want to be in that
environment and then you attractcreativity and then your dishes
(19:42):
evolve and then you just youbecome this place where you
don't want to leave.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, and everyone is invested for the common purpose
.
Yeah and good.
I've noticed a huge change,like in the last 20 years.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
From on the vendor side.
You know it's a sale yeah,because I mean I used to get
called and screamed at likecrazy and my friends would be
like is that really happening?
I'm like yes that's that's.
That's part of my job, and yeah, and so, but over time it's
just so interesting how muchmore empathetic you know um the
(20:16):
chefs are and and I don't knowif there's more training on that
just how to manage people,because I've always wondered
like, did they have like,because I don't think chefs go
into it knowing no or in theearly days that you're gonna
manage people that you you knowyou don't realize that yeah
Speaker 2 (20:34):
and they don't teach you that in culinary school?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
so I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I don't think so.
No, I think, don't teach youthat in culinary school.
Still, even in the state, Idon't think so.
No, I think it's on you to,like you, make those choices as
a cook, where do I want to work?
What skills do I want toacquire, you know?
Do I want names on my resume?
Do I want to learn technique?
Do I just want to plow through?
So you sort of make thosechoices and you begin editing
your career as you go.
But I think you reach a pointif you want to be a chef, once
(21:02):
you're in charge of people, youknow, whatever you think you
were going to do it's.
I kind of equate it to havingchildren, like when I'm, my
kid's not going to be on an iPad, I'm not going to do this.
And then, like, then it happensand you're like oh my God, now
I know why my chef was like hewas.
Or now I know why the kitchenoperates this way.
So you know, you.
You may start out like being ahard ass and have to soften, or
(21:25):
you may start out trying toappease everybody, which you
can't, and you stick to.
This is who I am and I alwayskind of take it back because you
know you're going to encountera lot of egos still in this
business and, like when you havethat situation where, like, a
sous chef won't budge orsomebody gets stuck on a dish or
whatever it is like, you haveto really understand that it's
(21:47):
not me, like even if I'm thechef, the chef owner, it's not
me.
This is the way I want it done.
It's this is the way thisrestaurant does it.
So you know you come across thatwith certain dishes that are,
you know, quote unquoteauthentic.
Or you know people like this isnot how you do carbonara, this
is how you do it.
Well, that's fine if you livein this region, but in this
(22:08):
restaurant, you know thesedishes work through a filter of
the people cooking the food, thepeople contributing the guests,
what their expectation is, theingredients you have available,
and then this becomes yourversion of that dish.
So you know this is Xrestaurant, the style we do
carbonara.
This is what it is and it maynot be authentic to what you
(22:29):
know if you lived in Italy oryour family did this growing up.
But what's important is it'sdone this way in this restaurant
and it's done consistently, andthen that's the expectation.
When I go here.
I don't order carbonara becausethey don't do it the way I like
it.
That's fine, but you know whatyou're going to get and that the
consistency part is importantKnowing who you are and then
being able to do the same thingover and over again.
And that's why it's hard as acook or a sous chef.
(22:52):
You go into a new restaurantwith all these ideas and you
really have to take the time tolearn.
Like, what is this restaurant?
Why do they do things the waythey do?
And that's as a chef.
When I would take over arestaurant as a chef, take a new
job and like, all right, you'rethe chef here now.
Instead of coming in and saying,all right, these are all the
things I want to do, you've gotto kind of listen and say why do
you do this?
Why do you make the burger thisway?
(23:12):
Why is the salad station here?
What is the thought process?
Why did this develop this way?
And then, when you learn it,okay, that makes sense.
I disagree, or that makes sense, we'll leave it alone.
And then you go in and youstart to put your touches on it,
but to come in just shooting itup and then figuring it out.
It's like you know you haven'ttaken the time to learn why they
(23:33):
got where they are.
You know because a lot of timesthere's reasons those things
happen.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, I think that's true in lots of different, you
know careers.
It's like when you come into anew position, understand it, sit
back, watch and listen.
It's hard, it's hard to do.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You want to make your mark.
You know you want to.
And especially, you know thepressure, like if you're, if
you're a chef taking over arestaurant, like within a week
or two it's in the newspaperSo-and-so took over this spot
and people start coming upwhat's his food, what's his menu
?
Like he's been here for a week,like let them settle.
And you know it takes months,weeks, a couple months, to get
(24:08):
sort of comfortable and knowlike and first of all, can I
keep the staff?
You know most of the time no,most of the time it's like
you're all great cooks, you alldid a great job here.
I'm sure you know we appreciatewhat you did, but you guys got
to go.
I'm bringing my team in Becauseyou're going to get stuck with.
That's not the way we used todo it.
Or I don't like that dish, Idon't like your style, like it's
almost better to just come inand say thank you everybody.
(24:40):
So yeah, change can be hard, butit's often really good you know
you always look back and say,well, that was good, I needed
that, but it's hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, you have to take that leap of faith.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So I guess, like being a chef is one thing, and
coming in and owning the kitchen.
But, being an actual chef andowner.
That's a whole different ballof flats because you're paying
the bills.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, that's a whole different ball of wax.
Because you're paying the bills.
Yeah, no, and I tell peoplethat you know I've worked with
chefs to help them openrestaurants and say, well, I'm
going to be the chef and theowner and whatever, I'm like
you're short changing one or theother, because to truly be an
owner, you can't I mean you canbe involved, but you have to be
hands off.
You have to have like, becauseyou're going to get pulled in
directions.
You can't you have.
I mean you can be involved, butyou have to be hands off.
You have to have like, becauseyou're going to get pulled in
(25:27):
directions.
You can't imagine so if you'rethe owner and you've got to go
to an investor meeting or thebank or fix a water here,
whatever it is, and you're likeoh, I'm the chef also, well, now
, who's doing the ordering andwho's teaching the cooks, if
you're out for a day or two oryou have an obligation.
So I always tell people youknow, when you open, if you're
an owner and you're opening,never put yourself on the
(25:49):
schedule, never put yourself ina position of reliance for the
staff.
Have a chef, have a GM, be theowner and let the people all do
their roles.
Now, if you're an owner and youwant to cook a couple days a
week or you want to work in a,okay, that's different, very.
You know, I work for danielbalut and he's otherworldly when
it comes to being able to domany things well and and have
(26:11):
the, the brain that understandsthe cost and the operations of a
restaurant and the creativityand the guest experience and the
managing the cooks.
Not a lot of people can do allthose things and even if you can
, you know daniel's the owner,but he's got a CEO and a CFO and
marketing people and all thosethings.
So he chooses to be in thekitchen all the time and and as
(26:33):
an owner and, like I said, veryfew people can do that, but he
does that because he has anincredible support staff.
If it's as a mom and pop or asmaller restaurant or a
first-time owner, like I'm goingto be the owner and I'll be in
the kitchen, yeah, you probablycan do it, but you're going to
cheat one of those areas,something.
You're not going to dosomething well and it's not fair
(26:54):
to you or the team to not alloweverybody to grow into the
roles and let the restaurantdevelop.
So that's the way I look at it.
I need that advice all the timeI've encountered that as a
business owner.
Now, you know, I have a handfulof people that work with me,
but I don't have a full-timestaff.
I have people that work with meand I do this, but I end up
(27:16):
doing owner stuff and I stilllove being in the kitchen.
So I'm doing recipe development.
So, you know, should I be inthe kitchen all the time doing
development?
I mean, that's kind of whatthey're paying for, you know,
for me to be in the kitchendoing that, but I should have
someone with me doing theclerical stuff.
Then, you know, keep writingthe recipes, taking photos, and
sometimes I do.
(27:40):
But, you know, as a businessowner, I feel that kind of pull.
So as I give people this advice, I'm like I should listen to my
own advice sometimes.
But it's tricky when you'remanaging and launching and
trying to do your strengths welland manage what makes sense to
delegate, and the cost is alwaysworth it to delegate the things
(28:00):
that are of less value to yourtime.
So it's a tricky thing tofigure out though.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, when you figure it out like 100,.
Will you let me know, becauseI'm trying to figure that out
myself.
So to try to put down the bagand manage the business.
And I'm thankful that we havesuch a talented team and they're
amazing at what they do andthey've been empowered to live
out their skills.
(28:27):
So, um, I'm curious what do youlike to do for fun outside of?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I, you're not going to believe me, I cook for fun.
I love cooking with my kids, Ilike cooking at home is relaxing
because there's there's thereused to be no pressure.
My kids have educated palatesand opinions now, so I'll cook
and I don't like that.
I'm making something else.
But for the most part, likecooking at home to me is fun and
relaxing.
And, um, I love traveling.
(28:55):
You know, I'm.
I'm very fortunate that two ofthe things I love to do are
cooking and traveling, and I getto do it as part of my job.
Um, and you know I love, I lovetraveling with my kids.
Now, being able to see thingssort of through, you know, when
they go somewhere for the firsttime, seeing through their eyes
and and sharing that experienceis a lot of fun for me.
(29:15):
What else do I do?
I don't know.
My work is fun.
To be honest with you, I'm I'm.
I'm lucky when I'm home, I'm.
You know, I like to be with mykids a lot, whether it's being
involved in their sports ortheir activities.
My daughter and I go prettyregularly.
We go to a pottery place whereyou can paint pottery.
(29:36):
They have the raw stuff and youpaint.
So we go there at least once amonth.
We'll go in there and that'sjust that's our kind of time
together and we'll sit and paint.
And it requires a lot ofpatience.
It's, you know, really smallkind of lines sometimes, so it's
a little bit sort of tedious,but it's.
It's a really fun way to justbe together and you know,
(29:59):
sometimes we talk, sometimes wedon't, but just being together
and like being creative and Iand I um kind of encouraging
that creativity from you knowfor my kids to have those
outlets.
My son loves to draw, you knowhe draws, he does legos, they
they're both have a lot ofcreative outlets, so I like to
kind of participate in that withthem that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I mean that you're able to spend that time with
your kids, have thoseconversations.
I've heard that that's like asa I've got kids, you know, yeah,
I mean you have kids, you knowto.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and it's not even a conversation sometimes,
it's just like sometimessomething will come out, but
it's like I don't want to put itjust like but just sit, and if
she has things to share, sharethem.
And you know, when you don'tpressure them, you know they get
in the car after school likehow's school today?
It's fine.
That never works well, but whenyou go and do something that's
like disarming and you're justthere and, like you know, she'll
(30:47):
say stuff.
Sometimes I'm like wow, where'dthat come from?
Um, and and you just kind ofroll with it.
So it's yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
That's amazing because I'm sure it's
challenging being a traveling,you know traveling for your
business and then creating thatquality time with your yeah, so
it sounds like you're doing agreat job with that so well.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
So do you have any otherconfessions?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Oh, my confession, my goodness, I don't know.
I think what maybe something alot of people don't know about
me is how into yoga I am.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh, that's a great confession.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I found it about.
I don't know.
15 years ago I had a cookactually who told me hey, chef,
why don't you come to yoga withme?
I was like okay, and I wentwith him and I hated it and then
I didn't go back for a littlewhile and then I had back issues
and you know, counters andkitchens are made for people
that are 5'9", 5'8", 5'9"probably, and you know, being 6,
(31:42):
two, I'm like bent over a lot.
So you know working the line,you know picking up saute pans
and being hunched over like yourposture is terrible.
Your eating habits are terrible,your sleep is like everything
about it, it's like if you'renot aware of how bad it is for
you, and I just kind of feltlike I did it a couple of times.
I'm like you know what, I feela little bit better.
I felt like I was standingstraighter and it was funny
(32:05):
because in the beginning it wasjust physical.
It was like I feel stretchedand straighter and like this is
probably good.
And then eventually I startedfeeling like the calming effect
of that you know it's a movingmeditation, so like leaving yoga
and feeling like, okay, I gotmy exercise.
But also I felt like, okay, Ifeel a little calmer right now,
(32:25):
like I can take a little bitmore um, you know, less anxiety
or whatever it was.
And it was like I startedunderstanding both sides of it
and it took a while and you knowit's funny.
Now I do it and I and I do itpretty.
I'm actually looking into umdoing teacher training, because
I I'd like to teach, justbecause of what it's done for me
in terms of, like, my healthand the way I approach working
(32:47):
so much and that balance it'screated.
And it's not something thatit's a lot of restaurant people
you know there are people thatdo it cooks or servers to be
able to have a class that reallyfocuses on, like the muscle
group that you're using in yourwork life to kind of
(33:08):
counterbalance that and havethat approach.
And you know it's just once youstart doing it you know, all
right, I'm not going to godrinking every night.
Maybe I'm going to go a couplenights now because I want to get
up and do a class tomorrow, orI'm going to go in the afternoon
.
So gradually it sort of startschanging your mindset of finding
the balance in life that wejust tend to as restaurant
people.
We just go overboard witheverything, like if there's food
(33:30):
on the table, we're eating itall.
If there's drinks, yeah, drinkstill the last call.
You know, if there's a party togo to, party to the end.
It's just so hardcore.
So when you start recognizingit and saying, okay, maybe I
need to pull back a little bitand find, you know, do it.
You know I'm never going to noteat, that's, my whole life is
around food.
But I want to be able to eat asI wish.
(33:51):
So I need to find balancesomewhere else sleep better,
drink less, exercise, whateverit is, so that I can continue to
, you know, pursue that passionline.
So that's yeah, that'ssomething that not a lot of
people expect.
You know when they.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
I was not expecting that, so favorite pose.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Favorite pose.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yoga pose.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Wow, handstand.
I've finally been able to get ahandstand.
Oh, come on.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
We should do one, I'll do one.
Well, I can't, I can't today.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, probably not a good idea.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, probably not a good idea probably not a good
idea.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
All right, yeah, yeah we can do it.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That's awesome Vinyasa, like hot yam.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Hot vinyasa yes, yeah .
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Good, well, that's awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today it was fun.
I'm going to ask you to comeback again.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
You're a fascinating person.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You'll have to come.
Giants practice last week and Ihave a friend that works for
the team so I said we're comingout, my daughter can't make it,
but she'd love to make yousomething.
And she's like, yeah, whatever,whatever she wants to make.
So she made chocolate chipcookies and she gave them to me
and she goes give them to MissAshley, but they have to be for
the team.
I'm like there's a hundred guyson the team, they're not.
(35:10):
She's like I want the playersto eat them.
I'm like all right.
So I gave them to my friend andI said can you take these in the
meeting room with a defensivelineman or whoever Can you take
it in?
She really wants to make surethey eat them.
So they eat them.
So she called me that night.
She's, like you know, two ofthe defensive linemen like those
are the best chocolate chipcookies they ever had.
(35:30):
Where can they get them?
So I told my daughter.
I said, be careful, you may bebaking for them during the
season now.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
So that was pretty cool.
That's awesome.
I want her on my team, so she'sawesome.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm lucky to have her on my team, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We'll see you soon, yeah on Confessions Beyond the
Food.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
For more inspiration, follow our social media at
W3Sales.
Please like, comment andsubscribe.
You know all the things.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
We would love to connect with you.
You and I come from differentworlds.
Go-go dancers to me are like inbetween strip clubs and
nightclubs.
You live my dream.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yes.
Because when I graduatedcollege, it was like that it had
just come out like the shadowbox dancers and I was like I
really want to be a shadow boxdancer, but it's too late
because I had a job.
So I was like I missed it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
It's a very slippery slope, Because the next thing
you know you're full on stripclub and then the money's too
good and then you're like, oh,I'm just doing it to pay for a
bill.
And then you live the lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
See, I don't want anyone to touch me Like.
That's why I love like.
I love going to dance and likeand like.
Nope, I just want to dance onthe highest platform by myself.
I don't want anyone to touch me.
Alex, if you heard that, youcan include that in the podcast,
right?
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food.
I'm your host, nancy Redland.
Let's dig in and get inspired,okay, so welcome back to
Confessions Beyond the Food.
Today I have a James Beard chef.
He's a consultant and he is aCEO of Bellyful Hospitality.
(00:26):
That's right, so welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Jeff Bradford.
Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Oh, so where are you joining us from?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hot-ass Dallas Texas.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Awesome, where are you from?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm from New York.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
New York yes, in proper New York City, in New
York.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
City.
Yes, okay, and I'm here inTexas for a couple of clients.
I get down here like once amonth, so it's so nice to come
down here in July and August.
It's so refreshing.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It is refreshing.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But I heard it's like really, really hot in New York
City.
It is.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's hot, human hot, but this is different.
It's a different kind of heat.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, it's really hot , so, anyway.
So New York City.
So how long have you livedthere?
Just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I've been there on and off for 25, 26 years.
That's awesome.
Yeah, quite a long time yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I mean how is it?
I mean, you have family, rightyou?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
have kids.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So how is it like raising kids in the city?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We love it, I mean, and we meaning my wife and our
kids both.
My wife, you know, has lived inNew York most of her life, um,
in different parts of New York,but our kids are both born in
Harlem and grown up in New Yorkand they love traveling but they
always love going.
They still love going back home.
Um, you know, they loveeverything New York has to offer
(01:45):
, the challenges, the craziness,but you know, the museums, the
eating out, the differentneighborhoods, they just they
love it.
And you know, we all, you know,I like to say, we use the city,
we go out, we go to differentboroughs, we eat everywhere, we
visit museums, use the parks,all that kind of stuff.
So it's a great place to live.
(02:05):
I mean, it's not easy, I'll behonest with you, it's not for
everybody, but luckily, you know, my wife and I love it and
luckily, our kids do now too.
So every time we go away, theyenjoy traveling and they always
go.
I'm ready to go home, or I'mglad to be back home.
They like where we live, sothat's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So are they interested in cooking Very much?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, they've been cooking each since they were, I
mean, two, three years old.
I've always kind of had them inthe kitchen with me and they've
both taken to it.
My daughter's taken a lot moreto baking, but they both cook.
My son does more cooking thanbaking.
He knows how to make propercocktails.
He's quite.
(02:48):
They're both quite the hostwhen people come over.
You know they're making tea andinfusing it and offering all
kinds of stuff.
But yeah, my daughter bakesalmost nightly and it's
beautiful.
But the frustrating thing isthat she's on Instagram or
TikTok.
But the frustrating thing isthat she's on Instagram or Tik
TOK and I have hundreds andhundreds of cookbooks and her,
(03:08):
her godfather's a pastry chef.
Her other godfather is a chefwho has a couple of restaurants.
I have all these books andeverything and she just she goes
online and finds things and shecooks without recipes, like
she's.
She's mastered a chocolate chipcookie.
It's as good as any I've everhad.
And I asked she doesn't have arecipe, it's in her head.
She knows the technique and I'mlike well, can we write it down
(03:29):
?
I always thought I'd have towrite down so she could make my
recipes.
And here I am like, can youwrite it down so I can make it.
So it's fun to watch that, likehow they interact with food.
And this generation is justobsessed with food.
You know social media, likeeverybody, anybody who's on
social media follows at least ahandful of food accounts.
And you know it's this weirdvoyeurism where people like
(03:54):
watching food be made or youknow dishes with a twist or that
look a certain kind of way.
But her, their generation, allher friends, like they know
ingredients, they know the coolrestaurants.
How do you guys know all this?
And it's you know it's mostlysocial media, but they're
they're very educated in termsof what they've eaten, where
they've been, especially youknow kids in the city where they
(04:16):
go for their birthdays.
It's it's kind of it's cool andit's also it's just it's kind of
hard to process sometimes, likehow do you know so much at 14
or 12 years old and you'retelling me where you want to go
for dinner or what kind of foodyou want to eat today?
And it's like I at that age Icouldn't even.
You know, I didn't know frommeatloaf and mashed potatoes.
That was like.
You know, I didn't know allthese Thai and Southeast Asian
(04:38):
flavors and dishes and they'relike rattling stuff off.
So it's it's fun.
It's really fun to go out toeat with them.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, you train them.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
well, I mean, you're out and about around the country
.
You cook for everyone, so yougo home and you're like okay,
kids, yeah, and they hear thestories of kitchen life 20 years
ago, when it was different thanit is now.
So they think that's veryentertaining also.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Oh well, that's a whole other podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, think that's very entertaining also.
Oh well, that's a whole notherpodcast.
Yeah, it really is.
They've.
They've probably heard morestories than they should have at
this point.
But I remember when they werelittle um, I mean they were five
or six or whatever and I was Iwas upset with them at something
.
I wasn't really yelling at them, but they're like, oh, you're
yelling at us, you're alwaysyelling at us.
I'm like I've never compared tohow I was as a chef, never
compared to how I was as a chef,like I've never yelled at you.
I've never raised my voice likethat and like, no, you're
(05:26):
yelling at us.
I said you know what, let's dosomething.
And I called a friend of minewho used to work for me and I
was, and I just handed the phone.
I said can you explain to themwhat daddy yelling is like?
And so he started telling themstories.
They're like, oh my God.
So that was kind of funny.
But yeah, they know all sides ofthe restaurant business.
But it's made them really greatdiners when we go out to eat.
(05:52):
They really they appreciategood service.
You know my daughter likes tosee the kitchen or you know
she'll say do we know anybodyhere?
Can we go say hi to the chef.
So they've experienced that.
So it's great.
It's not just like serve me andI'm going to eat this food.
They really understand what ittakes to create that experience
and they've seen it, you know,from both sides.
So it's really nice to knowthat they'll be able to
(06:12):
influence their friends in a way.
And you know, tip well and bepolite to your staff and all
those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And to serve others.
I mean I think that's somethingthat every child you know in
their teenage years or collegeyears.
You should wait tables or workor wash dishes or wash dishes
you should serve others and um,it's a great way to learn.
You know what it takes like itreally is patience and yes yeah
(06:38):
so um that not many people havethese days no, it's true like
yelp.
They're all like Yelp reviewers.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Right yeah, everybody's a critic.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, so well, today we're going to kind of talk
about kind of what it takes tostart up a restaurant, because
you've done a couple of those.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, I'm up to 40 something now 40?
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Wow.
So what was your?
I mean, what was the first onelike that you did?
I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Well, my, it's interesting, my whole career, or
the important stages of mycareer, have kind of been
accidents.
I I started cooking um.
I was in college, finishing up,and I was working at a Tony
Roma's um, like washing dishesand prepping, and it was kind of
a a job.
It was either that or startcoaching and like be a graduate
(07:25):
assistant.
Both made no money.
You know, I had just finishedplaying football.
I love football.
I thought that's what I wantedto do and I said, well, if I
work in this restaurant, the payis the same, the hours are the
same, I don't have to wear asuit and I get free food.
So I said, let me try this outand I did it.
I was there for like six monthsand taking classes and the guy
(07:47):
on the grill this guy hisnickname was Skates and like
really fast, talked a lot, butyou know, real great personality
, very outgoing.
He worked the grill and he wasreally good.
And we were in service onenight and I was in the back.
I was like peeling potatoes ormaking apple pies or something,
and like three police officerswalk in the kitchen, they
(08:08):
handcuff him, they take him outthe back door like he had
violated parole or something.
And this is in the middle likeyou couldn't make it up right
and in the middle of service andthe manager's like, come here,
come here, brad, come here.
And he hands me these tongs.
He's like, do you want to workover here?
And I was like, yeah, sure, whynot?
(08:35):
This seems like fun.
And you know, it was a raise inpay and I was on the line with
the cool guys.
I was like, yeah, sure, I'll dothis.
And that's that was kind ofwhere it started.
And you know, like again, itwasn't involved cooking, but it
was.
There was a process to followand I remember the guy who used
to work next to me, this guy,luis.
He always had the good weed, hewas like quiet, he had like
(08:56):
three jobs and he was the guyeverybody kind of learned from.
And I worked for like a week ortwo next to him and he started
grabbing his camera and he wouldmake food for himself during
the night and no one knew.
But he would like take themarinated chicken we're supposed
to be for the barbecue chickenand he would like toss it in
cornstarch and he would like getsome soy sauce and starch and
(09:19):
he would like get some soy sauceand he would do like stir fry
chicken.
I'm like where's this foodcoming from?
And he was just making it on astation to eat because he would
just eat during the night, andso he showed me how to make stir
fry chicken.
I still remember, um,ironically, at Tony Roma's
that's where I learned how tomake like it was like a general
so style chicken and hemarinated it in pineapple juice
and dredged it in cornstarch,threw it in the fryer and like
did this whole thing?
I was like, wow, that's cool.
So it's like I started seeing,like what you could do with food
.
You know, outside of the here's.
(09:40):
Here's.
The formula of Tony Rome iswhat you do.
Um, and that's when I startedgetting interested and that was
kind of how I started cooking.
So, um, and then fast forward.
I was at um Leverhaus in 2008before the big crash, and Lehman
Brothers was across the streetin Midtown and it was like our
biggest lunch client and the dayLehman Brothers went down, we
(10:02):
went in for lunch.
The next day there was threepeople in the dining room.
I was like, wow, this is, thisisn't going to end well, and
within a month the owner sort ofsold the business and told us
at the last minute it's like I'mgoing to close and just tell
them we're taking a break andit's over.
So I was at a point in my lifeI was about to turn 40.
We just found out my wife waspregnant and they closed the
(10:24):
restaurant.
And I was like, wow, this canbe a defining moment or, you
know, a disaster.
And I just didn't really knowwhat I was going to do.
I just didn't feel like takinganother job.
I knew that that was like youknow, all my friends are like oh
my God, where are you going towork?
What are you going to do?
And I was like I don't know ifI want to take another, like
this is false sense of securitywith a job.
And I got a call from a friend,Terrence Brennan, who had
(10:47):
Picholine and Artisanal at thetime and he had just taken over
a space.
And he calls me up and I wasliterally cleaning my desk out.
He calls me up.
He's like, hey, I'm reallysorry to hear about Leverhaus,
what are you doing?
I'm like I'm cleaning my deskout.
He said can you meet medowntown tomorrow?
I said sure, so I go down tomeet him and we meet in this
restaurant and we sit down andwe like have coffee.
(11:07):
And he's like so I'm takingthis place over on Monday and I
need help and I could use yourhelp.
I'm like, okay, I don't knowwhat that means, but sure, and I
knew him, but we had neverworked together.
And so I show up on Monday andhe hands me a piece of paper.
He goes here, you go, and I'mlike, okay, that's cool, I go,
that looks like a nice menu.
He goes, yeah, he goes.
I don't know anybody here.
(11:28):
So fire whoever you want.
Let's start pre open byThursday for the Tribeca Film
Festival.
I was like, what the hell areyou talking about?
Like I and I'm standing thereand he's like I'll be back in a
couple hours.
So somehow in a week, in lessthan a week, we we turned over
the products, we cleaned thestoreroom, we started figuring
(11:50):
these recipes out.
We ended up firing like threeor four people.
He sent a couple of people tohelp and I helped him open this
restaurant and spent like fouror five months with them and I
was like, wow, this is really.
This was cool.
Like, this was like you talkabout SWAT team.
This was just figure it out,take.
And then what I learned in thatprocess everything I knew
besides cooking, being aroundrestaurants and openings, how to
(12:12):
organize, how to delegate, howto figure shit out on the fly.
It was like, wow, this is, thisis kind of fun, this is a rush.
And then he didn't need meanymore and like so it was.
It was kind of that yo-yo oflike this is really intense.
And then it's like, okay, we'regood, I'm not going to pay a
consultant anymore, I'm got mystaff.
And then someone on that jobreferred me to somebody and I,
(12:34):
over the course of you know 10,11 years doing this, I've I've
done 40 something openings, nowall by word of mouth, being
referred by a contractor, akitchen designer or another chef
or whatever it might be.
So, yeah, and I've, in theprocess, have kind of found this
niche of mostly new restaurants.
I don't love doing the GordonRamsay come in and fix the
(12:58):
broken restaurant because itmakes great TV, but it's super
stressful and it doesn't stick.
There's always oh, that's nothow we used to do it, or my
cousin's the owner and I'm goingto do what I want to do.
So I've found a way to come into new restaurants very early on
way before they hire a chef,and be that voice of the chef.
(13:19):
Take the designers and thearchitects and make sure they're
building something that'soperational, keeping the owner
focused and clarifying theirconcept.
Bringing in the team I workwith the branding people, the
wine people, the servicetrainers and really keep the
restaurant on concept, make sureit's the right kitchen and then
develop the menu for them andthen do the training and
(13:40):
maintenance going forward.
So it's nice because I'm alwaysat a different phase of that
process with various people.
So there's days I'm in thekitchen for a period of time.
There's days I'm meeting withdesigners, working construction
sites, making sure things areinstalled properly.
So it's really a fun process.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So do you still get that rush every time?
Yeah, every time, because youcan't.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Everyone is different .
And there's like one of myconfessions, I guess I would say
because there's probably manybut I still miss that feeling,
that five minutes before service, when there's an espresso in
your hand and it's a fullreservation book and you're
standing there and the pass isclean, and it's just like that
anything can happen moment andyou feel as prepared as you can
(14:25):
be and then within an hour,something's happening you
weren't prepared for and I justto me.
That's what I always loved somuch is how quickly can we
figure it out?
Or how quickly can we dig outof being in the weeds?
How quickly can we figure itout, or how quickly can we dig
out of being in the weeds?
Or you know, how quickly is acook going to go down and need
help?
Or tell you they were preparedand they weren't prepared, like
(14:49):
it's just to me.
It's like kind of readingpeople at that time and seeing
that person is going to be introuble, I can tell.
Or this crew is ready.
Like it's just, there's anenergy to it that you can't
replicate and it's exhaustingand it's really stressful, but
there's nothing, there's nothinglike it and it was just.
I just always remember that thatcouple minutes before service,
you know, like the stainlesssteel is perfectly clean and
(15:09):
everything's lined up and thenapkins are all folded and and
you know, and the, like I said II used to have the the when I
was at the Phoenician, like thecoffee guy knew at like 4.52 to
have an espresso for me on thepass and just like everybody was
ready and within an hoursomebody was just falling apart.
It's the best, it's like thebest feeling.
(15:29):
And then you know, at the endof the night, that feeling at
the end of service, like yourfeet are tired.
You know I was working the passtired.
You know I was working the past, my voice was hoarse, you're
hungry, whatever, but it's likeso rewarding to know that like
180 or 250 people had an amazingtime or you made their
anniversary or their birthday orwhatever it is.
It's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, wow, I love how you describe that, like the
experience that you providesomeone.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, and a lot of cooks don't realize that, like
it wasn't until I was a chef andyou know the way.
Hey, chef, can you say hi tothis table?
Can you go to this table?
And you go in the dining roomand, like, you leave, leaving
the dining, leaving the kitchenfor the dining room, goes in the
(16:16):
dining room and then it's musicand dim.
You know candlelight and softlighting and the buzz and all
that.
And you go from this bright,hot environment, you know, with
a bright light, everyone'syelling and everyone's on edge.
And you go outside and thenit's like this calm, this dim of
the dining room, and you go outthere and like, and you walk by
in a chef coat and you could bea dishwasher.
But if you're in a chef coat,everyone's like what's the chef?
What's going on?
Who's he going to see, who doeshe know?
(16:38):
And there's a power to that, youknow.
But there's also there's aresponsibility when you see that
in people's eyes, like you know, the Phoenician was a good
example because it was soexpensive, like we knew that
this person might've beenwaiting all year for this
birthday celebration.
Like they're not eating hereonce a week or once a month.
So there's an incredible amountof pressure when somebody's
trusting you with, like I'mcelebrating my birthday or my
(17:00):
anniversary or whatever lifeevent, they're putting it in
your hands to make sure thatthey have an amazing time, and
you know.
So.
That's why when you, you know,when you go in the dining room,
when you see that you come backin the kitchen and it's like
stop for a second.
Just imagine like your wholepaycheck being spent for this
meal tonight.
You're plating their lamb andthis meal cost which is also the
(17:25):
screwed up thing aboutrestaurants but this meal might
cost what your paycheck is.
So when you start putting it inperspective, like, yeah, let me
take a second and make sureit's cooked perfectly, so yeah,
there's a joy to that, though,Do you see like a common thread
between chefs that have thatkind of I mean responsibility
and I'm relating to theirsuccess?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Is that something that is instilled in every chef
or no, I think it's a process.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I think I mean, obviously people are different,
but I think, as you come up, Icame up in a different time also
.
I came up in a time where, like, shut up and do what you're
told and hopefully you'll learnand take notes, and you weren't
allowed to really question thisgeneration and it's funny
because it's changed me as aperson but this generation now
you got to tell them why and notthat that's a bad like you
(18:15):
really should have been that way.
Um, but there was a sort of aprocess where you're not even a
cook, you're just prepping untilthey allow you to go near the
stove and then you're cookingand you're getting yelled at and
just do what I say do my menu,do my menu.
Then you become a sous chef andmaybe you're doing the ordering
and you're you're having menudiscussions with the team and
then you become a chef and yourealize, well, I'm not cooking
(18:36):
anymore, team.
And then you become a chef andyou realize, well, I'm not
cooking anymore, I'm managingpeople, I'm managing costs, I'm
trying to put creative seeds inpeople's heads to develop,
because I don't have time,because I'm in meetings or all
the obligations.
So it's an evolutionary processthat happens.
And so when you get to thatpoint you kind of have a choice
to say, okay, I got screamed andyelled at, this is going to be
(18:59):
my style.
Or you say I'm going to learnthose lessons, but I can do it
in a different way because Iwant to.
That's not the environment Iwant, and you make those choices
in any career.
You make those choices as youadvance of who do I want to be,
what kind of environment do Iwant to foster, and you see the
results pretty soon.
(19:19):
So if you become a screamer anda yeller, you know your
kitchen's on edge and I'm notgoing to lie, I had that in me
in the beginning.
And then you realize, like, letme be a teacher and just share
everything I know and get theirideas and be a better team and
come up with things as a group.
And then you feel, once youfeel that environment being
developed, then you attractpeople that want to be in that
environment and then you attractcreativity and then your dishes
(19:42):
evolve and then you just youbecome this place where you
don't want to leave.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, and everyone is invested for the common purpose
.
Yeah and good.
I've noticed a huge change,like in the last 20 years.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
From on the vendor side.
You know it's a sale yeah,because I mean I used to get
called and screamed at likecrazy and my friends would be
like is that really happening?
I'm like yes that's that's.
That's part of my job, and yeah, and so, but over time it's
just so interesting how muchmore empathetic you know um the
(20:16):
chefs are and and I don't knowif there's more training on that
just how to manage people,because I've always wondered
like, did they have like,because I don't think chefs go
into it knowing no or in theearly days that you're gonna
manage people that you you knowyou don't realize that yeah
Speaker 2 (20:34):
and they don't teach you that in culinary school?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
so I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I don't think so.
No, I think, don't teach youthat in culinary school.
Still, even in the state, Idon't think so.
No, I think it's on you to,like you, make those choices as
a cook, where do I want to work?
What skills do I want toacquire, you know?
Do I want names on my resume?
Do I want to learn technique?
Do I just want to plow through?
So you sort of make thosechoices and you begin editing
your career as you go.
But I think you reach a pointif you want to be a chef, once
(21:02):
you're in charge of people, youknow, whatever you think you
were going to do it's.
I kind of equate it to havingchildren, like when I'm, my
kid's not going to be on an iPad, I'm not going to do this.
And then, like, then it happensand you're like oh my God, now
I know why my chef was like hewas.
Or now I know why the kitchenoperates this way.
So you know, you.
You may start out like being ahard ass and have to soften, or
(21:25):
you may start out trying toappease everybody, which you
can't, and you stick to.
This is who I am and I alwayskind of take it back because you
know you're going to encountera lot of egos still in this
business and, like when you havethat situation where, like, a
sous chef won't budge orsomebody gets stuck on a dish or
whatever it is like, you haveto really understand that it's
(21:47):
not me, like even if I'm thechef, the chef owner, it's not
me.
This is the way I want it done.
It's this is the way thisrestaurant does it.
So you know you come across thatwith certain dishes that are,
you know, quote unquoteauthentic.
Or you know people like this isnot how you do carbonara, this
is how you do it.
Well, that's fine if you livein this region, but in this
(22:08):
restaurant, you know thesedishes work through a filter of
the people cooking the food, thepeople contributing the guests,
what their expectation is, theingredients you have available,
and then this becomes yourversion of that dish.
So you know this is Xrestaurant, the style we do
carbonara.
This is what it is and it maynot be authentic to what you
(22:29):
know if you lived in Italy oryour family did this growing up.
But what's important is it'sdone this way in this restaurant
and it's done consistently, andthen that's the expectation.
When I go here.
I don't order carbonara becausethey don't do it the way I like
it.
That's fine, but you know whatyou're going to get and that the
consistency part is importantKnowing who you are and then
being able to do the same thingover and over again.
And that's why it's hard as acook or a sous chef.
(22:52):
You go into a new restaurantwith all these ideas and you
really have to take the time tolearn.
Like, what is this restaurant?
Why do they do things the waythey do?
And that's as a chef.
When I would take over arestaurant as a chef, take a new
job and like, all right, you'rethe chef here now.
Instead of coming in and saying,all right, these are all the
things I want to do, you've gotto kind of listen and say why do
you do this?
Why do you make the burger thisway?
(23:12):
Why is the salad station here?
What is the thought process?
Why did this develop this way?
And then, when you learn it,okay, that makes sense.
I disagree, or that makes sense, we'll leave it alone.
And then you go in and youstart to put your touches on it,
but to come in just shooting itup and then figuring it out.
It's like you know you haven'ttaken the time to learn why they
(23:33):
got where they are.
You know because a lot of timesthere's reasons those things
happen.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, I think that's true in lots of different, you
know careers.
It's like when you come into anew position, understand it, sit
back, watch and listen.
It's hard, it's hard to do.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You want to make your mark.
You know you want to.
And especially, you know thepressure, like if you're, if
you're a chef taking over arestaurant, like within a week
or two it's in the newspaperSo-and-so took over this spot
and people start coming upwhat's his food, what's his menu
?
Like he's been here for a week,like let them settle.
And you know it takes months,weeks, a couple months, to get
(24:08):
sort of comfortable and knowlike and first of all, can I
keep the staff?
You know most of the time no,most of the time it's like
you're all great cooks, you alldid a great job here.
I'm sure you know we appreciatewhat you did, but you guys got
to go.
I'm bringing my team in Becauseyou're going to get stuck with.
That's not the way we used todo it.
Or I don't like that dish, Idon't like your style, like it's
almost better to just come inand say thank you everybody.
(24:40):
So yeah, change can be hard, butit's often really good you know
you always look back and say,well, that was good, I needed
that, but it's hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, you have to take that leap of faith.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So I guess, like being a chef is one thing, and
coming in and owning the kitchen.
But, being an actual chef andowner.
That's a whole different ballof flats because you're paying
the bills.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, that's a whole different ball of wax.
Because you're paying the bills.
Yeah, no, and I tell peoplethat you know I've worked with
chefs to help them openrestaurants and say, well, I'm
going to be the chef and theowner and whatever, I'm like
you're short changing one or theother, because to truly be an
owner, you can't I mean you canbe involved, but you have to be
hands off.
You have to have like, becauseyou're going to get pulled in
directions.
You can't you have.
I mean you can be involved, butyou have to be hands off.
You have to have like, becauseyou're going to get pulled in
(25:27):
directions.
You can't imagine so if you'rethe owner and you've got to go
to an investor meeting or thebank or fix a water here,
whatever it is, and you're likeoh, I'm the chef also, well, now
, who's doing the ordering andwho's teaching the cooks, if
you're out for a day or two oryou have an obligation.
So I always tell people youknow, when you open, if you're
an owner and you're opening,never put yourself on the
(25:49):
schedule, never put yourself ina position of reliance for the
staff.
Have a chef, have a GM, be theowner and let the people all do
their roles.
Now, if you're an owner and youwant to cook a couple days a
week or you want to work in a,okay, that's different, very.
You know, I work for danielbalut and he's otherworldly when
it comes to being able to domany things well and and have
(26:11):
the, the brain that understandsthe cost and the operations of a
restaurant and the creativityand the guest experience and the
managing the cooks.
Not a lot of people can do allthose things and even if you can
, you know daniel's the owner,but he's got a CEO and a CFO and
marketing people and all thosethings.
So he chooses to be in thekitchen all the time and and as
(26:33):
an owner and, like I said, veryfew people can do that, but he
does that because he has anincredible support staff.
If it's as a mom and pop or asmaller restaurant or a
first-time owner, like I'm goingto be the owner and I'll be in
the kitchen, yeah, you probablycan do it, but you're going to
cheat one of those areas,something.
You're not going to dosomething well and it's not fair
(26:54):
to you or the team to not alloweverybody to grow into the
roles and let the restaurantdevelop.
So that's the way I look at it.
I need that advice all the timeI've encountered that as a
business owner.
Now, you know, I have a handfulof people that work with me,
but I don't have a full-timestaff.
I have people that work with meand I do this, but I end up
(27:16):
doing owner stuff and I stilllove being in the kitchen.
So I'm doing recipe development.
So, you know, should I be inthe kitchen all the time doing
development?
I mean, that's kind of whatthey're paying for, you know,
for me to be in the kitchendoing that, but I should have
someone with me doing theclerical stuff.
Then, you know, keep writingthe recipes, taking photos, and
sometimes I do.
(27:40):
But, you know, as a businessowner, I feel that kind of pull.
So as I give people this advice, I'm like I should listen to my
own advice sometimes.
But it's tricky when you'remanaging and launching and
trying to do your strengths welland manage what makes sense to
delegate, and the cost is alwaysworth it to delegate the things
(28:00):
that are of less value to yourtime.
So it's a tricky thing tofigure out though.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, when you figure it out like 100,.
Will you let me know, becauseI'm trying to figure that out
myself.
So to try to put down the bagand manage the business.
And I'm thankful that we havesuch a talented team and they're
amazing at what they do andthey've been empowered to live
out their skills.
(28:27):
So, um, I'm curious what do youlike to do for fun outside of?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I, you're not going to believe me, I cook for fun.
I love cooking with my kids, Ilike cooking at home is relaxing
because there's there's thereused to be no pressure.
My kids have educated palatesand opinions now, so I'll cook
and I don't like that.
I'm making something else.
But for the most part, likecooking at home to me is fun and
relaxing.
And, um, I love traveling.
(28:55):
You know, I'm.
I'm very fortunate that two ofthe things I love to do are
cooking and traveling, and I getto do it as part of my job.
Um, and you know I love, I lovetraveling with my kids.
Now, being able to see thingssort of through, you know, when
they go somewhere for the firsttime, seeing through their eyes
and and sharing that experienceis a lot of fun for me.
(29:15):
What else do I do?
I don't know.
My work is fun.
To be honest with you, I'm I'm.
I'm lucky when I'm home, I'm.
You know, I like to be with mykids a lot, whether it's being
involved in their sports ortheir activities.
My daughter and I go prettyregularly.
We go to a pottery place whereyou can paint pottery.
(29:36):
They have the raw stuff and youpaint.
So we go there at least once amonth.
We'll go in there and that'sjust that's our kind of time
together and we'll sit and paint.
And it requires a lot ofpatience.
It's, you know, really smallkind of lines sometimes, so it's
a little bit sort of tedious,but it's.
It's a really fun way to justbe together and you know,
(29:59):
sometimes we talk, sometimes wedon't, but just being together
and like being creative and Iand I um kind of encouraging
that creativity from you knowfor my kids to have those
outlets.
My son loves to draw, you knowhe draws, he does legos, they
they're both have a lot ofcreative outlets, so I like to
kind of participate in that withthem that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I mean that you're able to spend that time with
your kids, have thoseconversations.
I've heard that that's like asa I've got kids, you know, yeah,
I mean you have kids, you knowto.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and it's not even a conversation sometimes,
it's just like sometimessomething will come out, but
it's like I don't want to put itjust like but just sit, and if
she has things to share, sharethem.
And you know, when you don'tpressure them, you know they get
in the car after school likehow's school today?
It's fine.
That never works well, but whenyou go and do something that's
like disarming and you're justthere and, like you know, she'll
(30:47):
say stuff.
Sometimes I'm like wow, where'dthat come from?
Um, and and you just kind ofroll with it.
So it's yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
That's amazing because I'm sure it's
challenging being a traveling,you know traveling for your
business and then creating thatquality time with your yeah, so
it sounds like you're doing agreat job with that so well.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
So do you have any otherconfessions?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Oh, my confession, my goodness, I don't know.
I think what maybe something alot of people don't know about
me is how into yoga I am.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh, that's a great confession.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I found it about.
I don't know.
15 years ago I had a cookactually who told me hey, chef,
why don't you come to yoga withme?
I was like okay, and I wentwith him and I hated it and then
I didn't go back for a littlewhile and then I had back issues
and you know, counters andkitchens are made for people
that are 5'9", 5'8", 5'9"probably, and you know, being 6,
(31:42):
two, I'm like bent over a lot.
So you know working the line,you know picking up saute pans
and being hunched over like yourposture is terrible.
Your eating habits are terrible,your sleep is like everything
about it, it's like if you'renot aware of how bad it is for
you, and I just kind of feltlike I did it a couple of times.
I'm like you know what, I feela little bit better.
I felt like I was standingstraighter and it was funny
(32:05):
because in the beginning it wasjust physical.
It was like I feel stretchedand straighter and like this is
probably good.
And then eventually I startedfeeling like the calming effect
of that you know it's a movingmeditation, so like leaving yoga
and feeling like, okay, I gotmy exercise.
But also I felt like, okay, Ifeel a little calmer right now,
(32:25):
like I can take a little bitmore um, you know, less anxiety
or whatever it was.
And it was like I startedunderstanding both sides of it
and it took a while and you knowit's funny.
Now I do it and I and I do itpretty.
I'm actually looking into umdoing teacher training, because
I I'd like to teach, justbecause of what it's done for me
in terms of, like, my healthand the way I approach working
(32:47):
so much and that balance it'screated.
And it's not something thatit's a lot of restaurant people
you know there are people thatdo it cooks or servers to be
able to have a class that reallyfocuses on, like the muscle
group that you're using in yourwork life to kind of
(33:08):
counterbalance that and havethat approach.
And you know it's just once youstart doing it you know, all
right, I'm not going to godrinking every night.
Maybe I'm going to go a couplenights now because I want to get
up and do a class tomorrow, orI'm going to go in the afternoon
.
So gradually it sort of startschanging your mindset of finding
the balance in life that wejust tend to as restaurant
people.
We just go overboard witheverything, like if there's food
(33:30):
on the table, we're eating itall.
If there's drinks, yeah, drinkstill the last call.
You know, if there's a party togo to, party to the end.
It's just so hardcore.
So when you start recognizingit and saying, okay, maybe I
need to pull back a little bitand find, you know, do it.
You know I'm never going to noteat, that's, my whole life is
around food.
But I want to be able to eat asI wish.
(33:51):
So I need to find balancesomewhere else sleep better,
drink less, exercise, whateverit is, so that I can continue to
, you know, pursue that passionline.
So that's yeah, that'ssomething that not a lot of
people expect.
You know when they.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
I was not expecting that, so favorite pose.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Favorite pose.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yoga pose.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Wow, handstand.
I've finally been able to get ahandstand.
Oh, come on.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
We should do one, I'll do one.
Well, I can't, I can't today.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, probably not a good idea.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, probably not a good idea probably not a good
idea.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
All right, yeah, yeah we can do it.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That's awesome Vinyasa, like hot yam.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Hot vinyasa yes, yeah .
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Good, well, that's awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today it was fun.
I'm going to ask you to comeback again.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
You're a fascinating person.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You'll have to come.
Giants practice last week and Ihave a friend that works for
the team so I said we're comingout, my daughter can't make it,
but she'd love to make yousomething.
And she's like, yeah, whatever,whatever she wants to make.
So she made chocolate chipcookies and she gave them to me
and she goes give them to MissAshley, but they have to be for
the team.
I'm like there's a hundred guyson the team, they're not.
(35:10):
She's like I want the playersto eat them.
I'm like all right.
So I gave them to my friend andI said can you take these in the
meeting room with a defensivelineman or whoever Can you take
it in?
She really wants to make surethey eat them.
So they eat them.
So she called me that night.
She's, like you know, two ofthe defensive linemen like those
are the best chocolate chipcookies they ever had.
(35:30):
Where can they get them?
So I told my daughter.
I said, be careful, you may bebaking for them during the
season now.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
So that was pretty cool.
That's awesome.
I want her on my team, so she'sawesome.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm lucky to have her on my team, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We'll see you soon, yeah on Confessions Beyond the
Food.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
For more inspiration, follow our social media at
W3Sales.
Please like, comment andsubscribe.
You know all the things.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
We would love to connect with you.
You and I come from differentworlds.
Go-go dancers to me are like inbetween strip clubs and
nightclubs.
You live my dream.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yes.
Because when I graduatedcollege, it was like that it had
just come out like the shadowbox dancers and I was like I
really want to be a shadow boxdancer, but it's too late
because I had a job.
So I was like I missed it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
It's a very slippery slope, Because the next thing
you know you're full on stripclub and then the money's too
good and then you're like, oh,I'm just doing it to pay for a
bill.
And then you live the lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
See, I don't want anyone to touch me Like.
That's why I love like.
I love going to dance and likeand like.
Nope, I just want to dance onthe highest platform by myself.
I don't want anyone to touch me.
Alex, if you heard that, youcan include that in the podcast,
right?
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