September 13, 2024 • 27 mins
What happens when you blend the precision of computer science with the heart of hospitality? Join host Nancy Ridlen in this insightful episode of Confessions Beyond the Food as she interviews Aaron Fish, CEO of Trestle Hospitality Concepts.
Aaron shares how senior living communities are transforming with strategic growth, creative revenue opportunities, and elevated dining experiences to meet the demands of a new generation. Discover how innovative culinary approaches, smart regional expansion, and technology are shaping the future of senior living, while providing chefs and hospitality professionals a chance to thrive. Tune in to learn how senior living is evolving beyond just care—into an experience-driven lifestyle.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food.
I'm your host, Nancy Ridland.
Let's dig in and get inspired.
Hi, welcome to ConfessionsBeyond the Food.
My name is Nancy Ridland andI'm with W3 Cells Today.
We have Aaron Fish in thestudio.
(00:21):
He's founder and CEO of Trestleand is a seasoned professional
in the hospitality industry,specifically known for his
leadership and senior living.
Welcome, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi Nancy, thanks for having me, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm so excited to have you here today, so we're
going to do things a little bitdifferent.
We're going to have you do yourconfession, to start off with.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, so tell us something none of us know.
So kind of ironic that we'redoing this newish form of
broadcasting.
But when I was in college Iactually was a co-host on two
news radio campus shows.
(01:08):
So I went to school at KansasState University and we had a.
Our news program was called APurple Affair, which because the
school colors are purple, andso I was a co-host on that show.
And then we had another onecalled Campus Life and so it was
the kind of news and talkportion of the radio station and
(01:28):
I was co-host for those showsfor a year.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's amazing.
So this is.
You are comfortable in thisspace.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, very much so.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You never knew that this was going to prepare you
for what you did today.
Do you feel like that sometimes?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, for sure it's one of those like how did I wind?
Oh, I came full circle, sothat's kind of cool.
So.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So tell us about how you got from broadcast
journalism to an expert insenior living.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So I so my college career was kind of a little bit
of a journey.
Some of us were like that andso I actually went to school as
a computer science major.
But then I didn't really likethat.
I wanted something where mypersonality could come through
and it just was really kind ofstodgy and boring the people I
was working with.
So I got into masscommunications because I love
(02:23):
the idea of being on the radiodoing TV work.
You know, I ran some camerasfor the local campus TV station
even, but I just never reallyfound my niche there.
And so I got into thehospitality management program
and that's where I really waslike I could connect with people
(02:43):
, my personality really camethrough and I just it was kind
of this way of service and Ijust I've just loved doing it
and kind of been doing that eversince.
I got into the hotel industryfrom there, worked at a hotel
for about seven and a half yearsand then stumbled into senior
(03:04):
living food service and I'vebeen there for the last 21 years
.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That's awesome.
I mean, that's what happens,everybody.
If you're thinking aboutgetting into hospitality, it
sucks you in.
You will never get out.
Right, you'll never get out.
It's so fun, and I love thatyou're dedicated to service, so
tell us a little bit about youknow your experience with senior
living and where it's led youto today.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah.
So I, like I said, I stumbledinto senior living.
I got engaged 20 some odd yearsago and I needed to move to
where my fiance was Right and soI took a job at a continuing
care retirement community as adining room manager was a
(03:52):
dramatic shift from hotels tothe senior living.
But initially it was well, thiswas a good little placeholder.
It was, you know, good pay,everything was fine.
And then I was going to go backinto hotels and I right place,
right time.
Over the course of the next 18months the COO on that campus
(04:14):
was like we need to be lesshotels and my hospitality
management degree all came toplay and I wound up going from a
dining room manager to thedirector of dining services for
this 900 person campus in KansasCity.
(04:38):
So fortunately, being a food andbeverage director at a hotel
helped me with that transition.
But I had to learn so much moreabout senior living and the
healthcare aspects of it and howinstitutional food and
hospitality and that wholetransition really kind of led me
(04:58):
to this idea of senior livingwas and still is somewhat behind
, kind of what the trends andeverything you see in
restaurants and hotels and kindof that commercial food service
world and so I've always kind oftried to position myself and
take opportunities where I couldgo into an organization and
(05:21):
bring that hospitality forwardmindset to our daily operation.
So it's not just, hey, we'vegot to serve three meals a day
because it's required by therules, but we're going to create
three service experiencesaround food for the residents we
serve.
And so I've kind of had thatdriving passion through not only
(05:44):
that role but getting into thekind of corporate side of
building programs for operators,which then led me to what I'm
doing now with my own company,trestle Hospitality Concepts,
where I do basically fractionalexecutive work in food and
hospitality for senior livingoperators executive work in food
(06:09):
and hospitality for seniorliving operators.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
That's incredible.
I love that you, you know, sawa need and and how to bring, you
know, bring hospitality to thenext level in senior living.
And what a cool journey.
I mean, within 18 months,you're like running the show.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, it was trial by fire.
Drinking from a fire hose.
Think of all the cliches.
That's what it was for sure yes,and then, prior to this, you
managed a group that had 50 plusproperties, and so yeah, the
last role I took before Istarted my company I was the
senior vice president of foodand beverage for an operator, 54
(06:47):
properties in six differentstates across the Southeast and
Texas, and so you know it was alot and but they were.
You know they were a fairly newcompany.
You know a lot of experience onthe executive team, but newer
into the management realm.
When I started with them and Iwas with them for five and a
(07:08):
half years and was basicallystarted, I was handed a cycle
menu, an order guide forpurchasing and a brand new point
of sale system that we neverwound up using because it was
not designed for senior livingand that was it.
And so it was.
Let's build this program fromthe ground up.
And what are the kind of?
(07:28):
What is the strategy behindthat?
How do you build a regionalteam that can help support that
many locations?
And when I started they onlyhad a team.
So we not only built theprogram around food and
hospitality but we also acquiredand grew our portfolio.
So it was not just theoperational pieces but there was
(07:50):
design, development for howkitchens would operate in new
builds, the training anddevelopment pieces that go into
having to oversee a large foodservice operation like that, so
a lot of that kind of.
Let me see that there was somany smaller operators that need
(08:11):
that kind of support, and sothat's what I do now with
Trestle is I work with thosesmaller regional operators,
maybe 15 locations or so or less, and provide that fractional
executive strategic support fortheir food and hospitality
operations.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So when they come to you, what do you I mean what's
kind of the first thing youattack Like, what do you see as
the biggest opportunity to bringthem, you know, into not even
compliance, but to, you know,just to today's standards?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, you know, usually what I find with the,
these smaller operators, is thatthey're they've kind of given
their local chefs or directorsthe keys to that castle, and if
you've done a really good job ofhiring, then they're going to
be successful.
But if you've missed the mark onthe hire, then who knows what
(09:09):
you're going to get right.
And so, and especially withturnover right Like you may have
a great person, they move on toanother opportunity.
Now the entire like knowledgebase of how food service should
happen leaves with them.
And so what I find is it'salmost you have to start with
the basics of well, what kind oftraining do you have in place?
What is your menu program looklike?
(09:31):
What are you trying toaccomplish with service
standards serving people?
And then from there we can thenstart adding the niceties of
well, let's look at programs forresident engagement and
programs for, like, memory careversus assisted living or
(09:54):
independent living, and thenkind of from there saying, all
right, now let's look at foodservice as a revenue opportunity
.
So it's kind of starting atthat baseline of helping them
understand what they want with afood service program and then
starting to build based ongetting those things in place.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
So when you work with properties around 15 or less,
are a lot of them growing or arethey renovating or adding on
what?
What is it?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, no, it's a great question, you know I have.
You know, two of my biggerclients are in growth mode.
So I started with one and theyhad two communities that were
literally a mile apart and theyhave built, they've acquired,
you know they are they're justlooking at acquisition
(10:52):
opportunities.
You know they've got a prettyaggressive growth plan to go
from those two.
You know, by this time nextyear, hopefully, they have eight
or 10 locations that they'reworking with.
Another client of mine is theirfirst community is a renovation,
but they're also looking tomake acquisitions.
(11:13):
And so you know, right now inthe space there, there's been a
little bit of a lull in newdevelopment just because of the
way the economics have workedaround you know interest rates
and construction costs.
But these smaller operators aresome of the most of the ones
that I see are being reallysmart and strategic about
(11:34):
they're creating a regionalfootprint.
They're not trying to have, youknow, 15 locations in five
different states.
You know both these clients areall within two or three hours
of themselves with all of theirlocations and that's very smart
and very strategic, right.
There's a lot of lower overheadthat comes with that and it
(11:55):
allows us to, you know, be morestrategic with the team as to
how we work together.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
That's really, really interesting.
I didn't even think about that.
Does the regional, you know,having something more regional
um effect, like the menu andwhat you know type of food goes
out?
Because have you found indifferent States everybody's
kind of different on preferences?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Oh for sure you know um with my prior uh company.
You know we were in sixdifferent states, from Arizona
all the way to Florida, and sowhat menus work in Arizona,
didn't work in East Texas,didn't work in South Florida,
right?
And so there you're working onthree or four different cycle
(12:42):
menus and alternate menus andalways available menus, because
everybody has differentpreferences for those regions
where you know the one operatorI work with in florida, they're
in florida, right, so we can um.
The biggest difference there iswe have one community that's
has more of a, a jewish kosherlike uh preferences um, but
(13:05):
outside of that we're able to domenus that are much more
similar in regionality and iningredients and in profiles,
because they're all within, likeI said, you know two hours of
each other, so the regionalityis the same yeah, and just the
standards.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
The health standards and um are similar.
You don't have to learndifferent states and their laws.
I mean, I can't imagine thecomplexity of that.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
No, it's nice to be able to pull everyone together
on a Zoom call and do a trainingwith everybody and cover
regulatory stuff and food codeitems and food safety specifics
Because, like you said, it's onestate, it's all one set of
rules and it makes it easy to dothat training.
Whereas larger footprint means,like you said, I got to have
(13:56):
six different sets ofregulations and I have to know
the intricacies.
Even something as simple as youknow, one state requires hot
holding temperatures to be 140,even though the food code says
135, right, little things likethat.
Like you, got to know thenuances when you're in a bigger
footprint.
So these regional operatorsthat I'm working with really do
(14:20):
have some advantages I thinkthat these larger operators
maybe don't have when it comesto those kinds of things think
that these larger operatorsmaybe don't have when it comes
to those kinds of things.
So what are the biggestchallenges for these operators
from the operations side?
So you know, if you'd asked methat a year ago, I would have
(14:43):
said staffing and labor.
I really think that's startingto correct itself.
I feel like people are moreengaged.
They're seeing the benefits ofmaybe working in senior living.
Really, now I think the biggestcosts are.
The biggest challenges are foodcosts we're struggling with.
You know, we've had this, thesehuge inflationary spikes over
(15:03):
the last 24 months or so, andwe're seeing some relief, but
it's not coming all the way backdown.
And so operators are strugglingwith how much rent can I
increase?
By what percentages am I ableto?
How much can these residentsactually take on?
And all of these additionalexpenses, wages have increased,
(15:25):
food costs have increased, somargins are shrinking.
So what are the opportunitiesthere?
And so there's a lot ofcreativity with the way we're
writing menus, and crossutilization is a key thing there
that they need to hire reallygood, talented people who
(15:47):
understand things like cookingfrom scratch or speed scratch,
and that's where you're going tofind a lot of cost savings.
It's not going to be hiringcheap labor and finding
convenience foods.
It's really more of a reverseof I need talented people who
understand how to manage thefood and do food well.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, I didn't even think about that.
But as a property, you know youcan't raise rent.
You can't raise rent in themiddle of the year.
You know as a restaurant or ahotel or anybody in the
hospitality industry, you canchange your menu With you guys.
It's not like that.
You have to.
(16:28):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, it's one of those things where, if a chef or
a director comes from therestaurant side of things and
I've experienced this is thatthey don't understand.
Okay, well, food costs havegone up.
Well, we just need to chargemore.
Right, we got to hit our 28, 30, 32, 35% food cost.
Well, that's not like you said.
It's not how senior livingworks, like.
You get a per resident day foodcost anywhere from $7.50 to $10
(16:56):
.
Some higher end places are more, but you know that eight to
nine 50 range is what mostoperators are looking at these
days and even that can get tight, so it's a different way of
thinking about it.
But there's opportunities, ifyou're creative, to do a lot of
things with your menu.
But also, I think with the newshift in demographics that we're
(17:20):
seeing, there's alsoopportunity for even looking at
revenue opportunities with foodservice, where maybe five years
ago people weren't thinking thatway.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So how are properties able to make you know revenue?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So it really goes into kind of changing into what
I call a restaurant mindset.
Right, it's looking at what areways that I can generate
revenue.
Can I create a catering programwhere residents are able to do
family events?
You know a lot of communities.
(17:55):
One example for a cateringevent they have pools, you know,
in these bigger buildings butthey don't really get used
outside of, like aquatics,exercise classes.
So why not set up a programwhere you can have grandkids
come in for a pool party andthen cater and rent space and
generate revenue that way?
You know, do all part pricingfor guests that come and visit.
(18:18):
So instead of what seniorliving has always done is, oh,
we're going to charge seven, 10,$12 per meal.
Create an actual all a cartmenu where, all right, well,
maybe I just want a salad andsoup and so I'm going to pay for
that at four or $5, like Iwould a restaurant, you know.
And then creating discountprograms, selling gift cards to
(18:40):
family members, you know a barprogram, revenue for around
beverages and cocktails andmocktails, you know.
Those are all opportunitiesthat can be layered on top of
the the base meal program andthe regulatory meal programs
that will not only help generateadditional revenues but also
(19:01):
create a lot of moremarketability for kind of the,
the boomers that we're going tostart seeing moving into
communities here in the next 24to 36 months.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So what do you think is going to be the big
difference in expectation fromthe boomers in the previous
generation?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It's the experience level right.
The silent generation beforethem was very much a I guess
frugal is a good way to describethem.
If it was a quality product,there wasn't a lot of negative
feedback.
It's like you know you get whatyou get.
If it's a good quality, thenthey're happy with it.
(19:40):
Right, whereas boomers are moretraveled, they have more of a
culinary palette, they have moreculinary experience, and so the
expectation coming in is thatthis isn't just my three squares
a day, it is.
I'm coming here because I'mpicking, partly for the
lifestyle I'm coming here.
(20:01):
I may have some assisted needshealthcare wise, but I still
have this expectation of higherservice levels, of variety, of
choice, and so the operatorsthat are on the front line, on
the front edge of this, reallyget the understanding of
creating concepts and creatingmenu variety and knowing that
they've got to create anexperience around what they're
(20:25):
doing.
Even if it is basic comfortfood menu items, they still want
an experience to go along withthat.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So I mean lots has changed right since you've
started.
And so what do you think is Imean, what do you expect to see
in the future, like five to 10years down the road, Like how
will that change and how canthese properties prepare for
that?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
how they use spaces, how they design spaces.
Can they convert a dining roomthat traditionally would be?
You know where?
I have just three meals, itdoesn't change.
Do they have little miniconcepts inside of them?
Do they have activity spacesthat can be like a pop-up
restaurant?
What do they do around creatingthose experiences?
(21:15):
And the other piece of it'sgoing to be technology.
Right, if you need to driverevenue, you can't do that on an
Excel spreadsheet.
You got to have the technologyto capture it.
You need to understandpreferences and choices and
things like allergies anddietary needs, and so you know.
You see this in hospitality nowwith, like some of the hotel
(21:36):
chains where they have thepersonalization, like they know
what temperature you want yourroom, those kinds of things.
And so I think there's going toneed to be more technology
integrated into communities tocreate these experiences and we
just have to, I think, reallytruly remember that at the end
of the day, it's an industry ofpeople serving people and we
(21:59):
cannot lose sight of having thatpersonalized, elevated touch.
So, customer service, moretraining on how to interact with
people, is going to be key,because it can't be
transactional.
Senior living is always goingto be relational in how we do
things.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I mean, you're serving people in their home yes
, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
So it's a tricky balance of their home and
hospitality and I think that'swhere the industry is going to
have to figure out that outsideof their apartment needs to be
maybe a little less homey andmore experiencey, but then
inside of their apartment needsto be maybe a little less homey
and more experiencey, but theninside of their apartment they
need to have access to all ofthose services just like they
(22:46):
would currently in their youknow, their physical homes.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Now, so are you seeing, like the cafes, and you
know the different, moreconcepts within the, in in the
house, in the homes.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, a lot of communities, even assisted
living communities, are lookingat how do I create all of these
spaces so I can have thatvariety, because as someone ages
in place, they're still goingto have these expectations.
So I have a client who justopened a senior living assisted
living community and they have acafe where we're going to put
(23:22):
in a revenue generating bistroconcept.
They have a full service bar,they have their main dining room
concept and so that's assistedliving.
Typically, you see this inindependent living and so there
are just going to be a need forthat variety because it's not
something that's going to be amarket differentiator in five
(23:43):
years.
It's going to be a marketexpectation.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Interesting.
I mean that's so exciting.
I think, like lots ofopportunity to opportunity, um
to, like you said, adapt, changewith the times and um, and give
the you know, our seniors, likethe you know, a great
experience.
I mean that's what we do in ourindustry, right, like you said,
(24:09):
is provide an experience.
Um, food is fun, so, and that'sa fun, you know what we do.
So are there any other tips, aswe wrap this up, that you'd
like to share for our, for ourlisteners?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, I would tell and this is kind of a selfish
thing but I would tell thosechefs and directors that are in
restaurants and hotels to notnecessarily look down on the
senior living space as that kindof bland, skilled, nursing
institutional opportunity.
(24:47):
We need those hospitalitytrained, hospitality minded
individuals to come into seniorliving.
You know my background is inhotels.
All of the really greatregional directors, dining
directors, corporate directorsthat I work with, that I have
good relationships with, allhave a background in hotels and
(25:09):
restaurants and those are goingto be the people that are going
to have really greatopportunities in senior living
to not only get better work-lifebalance and create a good
lifestyle for themselves butalso help push this change in
senior living that I think iscoming and going to be needed
and is going to be driven bythose individuals.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Is the quality of life different, like on the side
, versus the hospitality?
Just curious.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I would say if you're working past eight or
nine o'clock in the evenings ina community, then there's
something wrong.
Like you get great work-lifebalance in senior living and you
still get to do all of the foodthings, all of the service
things.
You know you can create greatmenus, you can create great
cocktail menus and beverageprograms and customer service
(25:58):
experiences, and so the chefsthat I think are like, well, I
want to stay in food but I'mkind of tired of the rat race of
the commercial food serviceshould definitely look at senior
living because once you're init, like, you make these
personal connections and againit's becomes relational and not
transactional and I think thequality of life immensely
improves.
You make these personalconnections and again it becomes
relational and nottransactional and I think the
(26:19):
quality of life immenselyimproves.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
That's amazing, and Aaron has so many tips to share
and he also has a podcast.
So, aaron, would you mindsharing ways that people can
reach out to you for yourservices?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Absolutely, you can connect with us.
Our website istrestlehospitalityconceptscom.
The podcast is Tips fromTrestle.
You can find that anywhere youlisten to podcasts.
We have a lot of greatconversations and really just
trying to bring in that elevatedexperience for senior living
operators.
And obviously you can connectwith me on LinkedIn, twitter, x,
(26:59):
instagram, all of the socialmedia channels.
We are all over the place andwe'd love to connect and, you
know, let you learn more aboutus and learn about how we can
support you and your operations.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, aaron, you're a wealth of knowledge and it's
just.
I'm really honored to have youon the podcast today and giving
us some tips, and so weappreciate you guys joining in
on this episode on ConfessionsBeyond the Food.
See you next time.
For more inspiration, followour social media at W3Sales.
Please like, comment andsubscribe.
(27:35):
You know all the things wewould love to connect with you.
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food.
I'm your host, Nancy Ridland.
Let's dig in and get inspired.
Hi, welcome to ConfessionsBeyond the Food.
My name is Nancy Ridland andI'm with W3 Cells Today.
We have Aaron Fish in thestudio.
(00:21):
He's founder and CEO of Trestleand is a seasoned professional
in the hospitality industry,specifically known for his
leadership and senior living.
Welcome, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi Nancy, thanks for having me, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm so excited to have you here today, so we're
going to do things a little bitdifferent.
We're going to have you do yourconfession, to start off with.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, so tell us something none of us know.
So kind of ironic that we'redoing this newish form of
broadcasting.
But when I was in college Iactually was a co-host on two
news radio campus shows.
(01:08):
So I went to school at KansasState University and we had a.
Our news program was called APurple Affair, which because the
school colors are purple, andso I was a co-host on that show.
And then we had another onecalled Campus Life and so it was
the kind of news and talkportion of the radio station and
(01:28):
I was co-host for those showsfor a year.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's amazing.
So this is.
You are comfortable in thisspace.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, very much so.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You never knew that this was going to prepare you
for what you did today.
Do you feel like that sometimes?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, for sure it's one of those like how did I wind?
Oh, I came full circle, sothat's kind of cool.
So.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So tell us about how you got from broadcast
journalism to an expert insenior living.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So I so my college career was kind of a little bit
of a journey.
Some of us were like that andso I actually went to school as
a computer science major.
But then I didn't really likethat.
I wanted something where mypersonality could come through
and it just was really kind ofstodgy and boring the people I
was working with.
So I got into masscommunications because I love
(02:23):
the idea of being on the radiodoing TV work.
You know, I ran some camerasfor the local campus TV station
even, but I just never reallyfound my niche there.
And so I got into thehospitality management program
and that's where I really waslike I could connect with people
(02:43):
, my personality really camethrough and I just it was kind
of this way of service and Ijust I've just loved doing it
and kind of been doing that eversince.
I got into the hotel industryfrom there, worked at a hotel
for about seven and a half yearsand then stumbled into senior
(03:04):
living food service and I'vebeen there for the last 21 years
.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That's awesome.
I mean, that's what happens,everybody.
If you're thinking aboutgetting into hospitality, it
sucks you in.
You will never get out.
Right, you'll never get out.
It's so fun, and I love thatyou're dedicated to service, so
tell us a little bit about youknow your experience with senior
living and where it's led youto today.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah.
So I, like I said, I stumbledinto senior living.
I got engaged 20 some odd yearsago and I needed to move to
where my fiance was Right and soI took a job at a continuing
care retirement community as adining room manager was a
(03:52):
dramatic shift from hotels tothe senior living.
But initially it was well, thiswas a good little placeholder.
It was, you know, good pay,everything was fine.
And then I was going to go backinto hotels and I right place,
right time.
Over the course of the next 18months the COO on that campus
(04:14):
was like we need to be lesshotels and my hospitality
management degree all came toplay and I wound up going from a
dining room manager to thedirector of dining services for
this 900 person campus in KansasCity.
(04:38):
So fortunately, being a food andbeverage director at a hotel
helped me with that transition.
But I had to learn so much moreabout senior living and the
healthcare aspects of it and howinstitutional food and
hospitality and that wholetransition really kind of led me
(04:58):
to this idea of senior livingwas and still is somewhat behind
, kind of what the trends andeverything you see in
restaurants and hotels and kindof that commercial food service
world and so I've always kind oftried to position myself and
take opportunities where I couldgo into an organization and
(05:21):
bring that hospitality forwardmindset to our daily operation.
So it's not just, hey, we'vegot to serve three meals a day
because it's required by therules, but we're going to create
three service experiencesaround food for the residents we
serve.
And so I've kind of had thatdriving passion through not only
(05:44):
that role but getting into thekind of corporate side of
building programs for operators,which then led me to what I'm
doing now with my own company,trestle Hospitality Concepts,
where I do basically fractionalexecutive work in food and
hospitality for senior livingoperators executive work in food
(06:09):
and hospitality for seniorliving operators.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
That's incredible.
I love that you, you know, sawa need and and how to bring, you
know, bring hospitality to thenext level in senior living.
And what a cool journey.
I mean, within 18 months,you're like running the show.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, it was trial by fire.
Drinking from a fire hose.
Think of all the cliches.
That's what it was for sure yes,and then, prior to this, you
managed a group that had 50 plusproperties, and so yeah, the
last role I took before Istarted my company I was the
senior vice president of foodand beverage for an operator, 54
(06:47):
properties in six differentstates across the Southeast and
Texas, and so you know it was alot and but they were.
You know they were a fairly newcompany.
You know a lot of experience onthe executive team, but newer
into the management realm.
When I started with them and Iwas with them for five and a
(07:08):
half years and was basicallystarted, I was handed a cycle
menu, an order guide forpurchasing and a brand new point
of sale system that we neverwound up using because it was
not designed for senior livingand that was it.
And so it was.
Let's build this program fromthe ground up.
And what are the kind of?
(07:28):
What is the strategy behindthat?
How do you build a regionalteam that can help support that
many locations?
And when I started they onlyhad a team.
So we not only built theprogram around food and
hospitality but we also acquiredand grew our portfolio.
So it was not just theoperational pieces but there was
(07:50):
design, development for howkitchens would operate in new
builds, the training anddevelopment pieces that go into
having to oversee a large foodservice operation like that, so
a lot of that kind of.
Let me see that there was somany smaller operators that need
(08:11):
that kind of support, and sothat's what I do now with
Trestle is I work with thosesmaller regional operators,
maybe 15 locations or so or less, and provide that fractional
executive strategic support fortheir food and hospitality
operations.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So when they come to you, what do you I mean what's
kind of the first thing youattack Like, what do you see as
the biggest opportunity to bringthem, you know, into not even
compliance, but to, you know,just to today's standards?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, you know, usually what I find with the,
these smaller operators, is thatthey're they've kind of given
their local chefs or directorsthe keys to that castle, and if
you've done a really good job ofhiring, then they're going to
be successful.
But if you've missed the mark onthe hire, then who knows what
(09:09):
you're going to get right.
And so, and especially withturnover right Like you may have
a great person, they move on toanother opportunity.
Now the entire like knowledgebase of how food service should
happen leaves with them.
And so what I find is it'salmost you have to start with
the basics of well, what kind oftraining do you have in place?
What is your menu program looklike?
(09:31):
What are you trying toaccomplish with service
standards serving people?
And then from there we can thenstart adding the niceties of
well, let's look at programs forresident engagement and
programs for, like, memory careversus assisted living or
(09:54):
independent living, and thenkind of from there saying, all
right, now let's look at foodservice as a revenue opportunity
.
So it's kind of starting atthat baseline of helping them
understand what they want with afood service program and then
starting to build based ongetting those things in place.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
So when you work with properties around 15 or less,
are a lot of them growing or arethey renovating or adding on
what?
What is it?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, no, it's a great question, you know I have.
You know, two of my biggerclients are in growth mode.
So I started with one and theyhad two communities that were
literally a mile apart and theyhave built, they've acquired,
you know they are they're justlooking at acquisition
(10:52):
opportunities.
You know they've got a prettyaggressive growth plan to go
from those two.
You know, by this time nextyear, hopefully, they have eight
or 10 locations that they'reworking with.
Another client of mine is theirfirst community is a renovation,
but they're also looking tomake acquisitions.
(11:13):
And so you know, right now inthe space there, there's been a
little bit of a lull in newdevelopment just because of the
way the economics have workedaround you know interest rates
and construction costs.
But these smaller operators aresome of the most of the ones
that I see are being reallysmart and strategic about
(11:34):
they're creating a regionalfootprint.
They're not trying to have, youknow, 15 locations in five
different states.
You know both these clients areall within two or three hours
of themselves with all of theirlocations and that's very smart
and very strategic, right.
There's a lot of lower overheadthat comes with that and it
(11:55):
allows us to, you know, be morestrategic with the team as to
how we work together.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
That's really, really interesting.
I didn't even think about that.
Does the regional, you know,having something more regional
um effect, like the menu andwhat you know type of food goes
out?
Because have you found indifferent States everybody's
kind of different on preferences?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Oh for sure you know um with my prior uh company.
You know we were in sixdifferent states, from Arizona
all the way to Florida, and sowhat menus work in Arizona,
didn't work in East Texas,didn't work in South Florida,
right?
And so there you're working onthree or four different cycle
(12:42):
menus and alternate menus andalways available menus, because
everybody has differentpreferences for those regions
where you know the one operatorI work with in florida, they're
in florida, right, so we can um.
The biggest difference there iswe have one community that's
has more of a, a jewish kosherlike uh preferences um, but
(13:05):
outside of that we're able to domenus that are much more
similar in regionality and iningredients and in profiles,
because they're all within, likeI said, you know two hours of
each other, so the regionalityis the same yeah, and just the
standards.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
The health standards and um are similar.
You don't have to learndifferent states and their laws.
I mean, I can't imagine thecomplexity of that.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
No, it's nice to be able to pull everyone together
on a Zoom call and do a trainingwith everybody and cover
regulatory stuff and food codeitems and food safety specifics
Because, like you said, it's onestate, it's all one set of
rules and it makes it easy to dothat training.
Whereas larger footprint means,like you said, I got to have
(13:56):
six different sets ofregulations and I have to know
the intricacies.
Even something as simple as youknow, one state requires hot
holding temperatures to be 140,even though the food code says
135, right, little things likethat.
Like you, got to know thenuances when you're in a bigger
footprint.
So these regional operatorsthat I'm working with really do
(14:20):
have some advantages I thinkthat these larger operators
maybe don't have when it comesto those kinds of things think
that these larger operatorsmaybe don't have when it comes
to those kinds of things.
So what are the biggestchallenges for these operators
from the operations side?
So you know, if you'd asked methat a year ago, I would have
(14:43):
said staffing and labor.
I really think that's startingto correct itself.
I feel like people are moreengaged.
They're seeing the benefits ofmaybe working in senior living.
Really, now I think the biggestcosts are.
The biggest challenges are foodcosts we're struggling with.
You know, we've had this, thesehuge inflationary spikes over
(15:03):
the last 24 months or so, andwe're seeing some relief, but
it's not coming all the way backdown.
And so operators are strugglingwith how much rent can I
increase?
By what percentages am I ableto?
How much can these residentsactually take on?
And all of these additionalexpenses, wages have increased,
(15:25):
food costs have increased, somargins are shrinking.
So what are the opportunitiesthere?
And so there's a lot ofcreativity with the way we're
writing menus, and crossutilization is a key thing there
that they need to hire reallygood, talented people who
(15:47):
understand things like cookingfrom scratch or speed scratch,
and that's where you're going tofind a lot of cost savings.
It's not going to be hiringcheap labor and finding
convenience foods.
It's really more of a reverseof I need talented people who
understand how to manage thefood and do food well.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, I didn't even think about that.
But as a property, you know youcan't raise rent.
You can't raise rent in themiddle of the year.
You know as a restaurant or ahotel or anybody in the
hospitality industry, you canchange your menu With you guys.
It's not like that.
You have to.
(16:28):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, it's one of those things where, if a chef or
a director comes from therestaurant side of things and
I've experienced this is thatthey don't understand.
Okay, well, food costs havegone up.
Well, we just need to chargemore.
Right, we got to hit our 28, 30, 32, 35% food cost.
Well, that's not like you said.
It's not how senior livingworks, like.
You get a per resident day foodcost anywhere from $7.50 to $10
(16:56):
.
Some higher end places are more, but you know that eight to
nine 50 range is what mostoperators are looking at these
days and even that can get tight, so it's a different way of
thinking about it.
But there's opportunities, ifyou're creative, to do a lot of
things with your menu.
But also, I think with the newshift in demographics that we're
(17:20):
seeing, there's alsoopportunity for even looking at
revenue opportunities with foodservice, where maybe five years
ago people weren't thinking thatway.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So how are properties able to make you know revenue?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So it really goes into kind of changing into what
I call a restaurant mindset.
Right, it's looking at what areways that I can generate
revenue.
Can I create a catering programwhere residents are able to do
family events?
You know a lot of communities.
(17:55):
One example for a cateringevent they have pools, you know,
in these bigger buildings butthey don't really get used
outside of, like aquatics,exercise classes.
So why not set up a programwhere you can have grandkids
come in for a pool party andthen cater and rent space and
generate revenue that way?
You know, do all part pricingfor guests that come and visit.
(18:18):
So instead of what seniorliving has always done is, oh,
we're going to charge seven, 10,$12 per meal.
Create an actual all a cartmenu where, all right, well,
maybe I just want a salad andsoup and so I'm going to pay for
that at four or $5, like Iwould a restaurant, you know.
And then creating discountprograms, selling gift cards to
(18:40):
family members, you know a barprogram, revenue for around
beverages and cocktails andmocktails, you know.
Those are all opportunitiesthat can be layered on top of
the the base meal program andthe regulatory meal programs
that will not only help generateadditional revenues but also
(19:01):
create a lot of moremarketability for kind of the,
the boomers that we're going tostart seeing moving into
communities here in the next 24to 36 months.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So what do you think is going to be the big
difference in expectation fromthe boomers in the previous
generation?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It's the experience level right.
The silent generation beforethem was very much a I guess
frugal is a good way to describethem.
If it was a quality product,there wasn't a lot of negative
feedback.
It's like you know you get whatyou get.
If it's a good quality, thenthey're happy with it.
(19:40):
Right, whereas boomers are moretraveled, they have more of a
culinary palette, they have moreculinary experience, and so the
expectation coming in is thatthis isn't just my three squares
a day, it is.
I'm coming here because I'mpicking, partly for the
lifestyle I'm coming here.
(20:01):
I may have some assisted needshealthcare wise, but I still
have this expectation of higherservice levels, of variety, of
choice, and so the operatorsthat are on the front line, on
the front edge of this, reallyget the understanding of
creating concepts and creatingmenu variety and knowing that
they've got to create anexperience around what they're
(20:25):
doing.
Even if it is basic comfortfood menu items, they still want
an experience to go along withthat.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So I mean lots has changed right since you've
started.
And so what do you think is Imean, what do you expect to see
in the future, like five to 10years down the road, Like how
will that change and how canthese properties prepare for
that?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
how they use spaces, how they design spaces.
Can they convert a dining roomthat traditionally would be?
You know where?
I have just three meals, itdoesn't change.
Do they have little miniconcepts inside of them?
Do they have activity spacesthat can be like a pop-up
restaurant?
What do they do around creatingthose experiences?
(21:15):
And the other piece of it'sgoing to be technology.
Right, if you need to driverevenue, you can't do that on an
Excel spreadsheet.
You got to have the technologyto capture it.
You need to understandpreferences and choices and
things like allergies anddietary needs, and so you know.
You see this in hospitality nowwith, like some of the hotel
(21:36):
chains where they have thepersonalization, like they know
what temperature you want yourroom, those kinds of things.
And so I think there's going toneed to be more technology
integrated into communities tocreate these experiences and we
just have to, I think, reallytruly remember that at the end
of the day, it's an industry ofpeople serving people and we
(21:59):
cannot lose sight of having thatpersonalized, elevated touch.
So, customer service, moretraining on how to interact with
people, is going to be key,because it can't be
transactional.
Senior living is always goingto be relational in how we do
things.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I mean, you're serving people in their home yes
, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
So it's a tricky balance of their home and
hospitality and I think that'swhere the industry is going to
have to figure out that outsideof their apartment needs to be
maybe a little less homey andmore experiencey, but then
inside of their apartment needsto be maybe a little less homey
and more experiencey, but theninside of their apartment they
need to have access to all ofthose services just like they
(22:46):
would currently in their youknow, their physical homes.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Now, so are you seeing, like the cafes, and you
know the different, moreconcepts within the, in in the
house, in the homes.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, a lot of communities, even assisted
living communities, are lookingat how do I create all of these
spaces so I can have thatvariety, because as someone ages
in place, they're still goingto have these expectations.
So I have a client who justopened a senior living assisted
living community and they have acafe where we're going to put
(23:22):
in a revenue generating bistroconcept.
They have a full service bar,they have their main dining room
concept and so that's assistedliving.
Typically, you see this inindependent living and so there
are just going to be a need forthat variety because it's not
something that's going to be amarket differentiator in five
(23:43):
years.
It's going to be a marketexpectation.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Interesting.
I mean that's so exciting.
I think, like lots ofopportunity to opportunity, um
to, like you said, adapt, changewith the times and um, and give
the you know, our seniors, likethe you know, a great
experience.
I mean that's what we do in ourindustry, right, like you said,
(24:09):
is provide an experience.
Um, food is fun, so, and that'sa fun, you know what we do.
So are there any other tips, aswe wrap this up, that you'd
like to share for our, for ourlisteners?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, I would tell and this is kind of a selfish
thing but I would tell thosechefs and directors that are in
restaurants and hotels to notnecessarily look down on the
senior living space as that kindof bland, skilled, nursing
institutional opportunity.
(24:47):
We need those hospitalitytrained, hospitality minded
individuals to come into seniorliving.
You know my background is inhotels.
All of the really greatregional directors, dining
directors, corporate directorsthat I work with, that I have
good relationships with, allhave a background in hotels and
(25:09):
restaurants and those are goingto be the people that are going
to have really greatopportunities in senior living
to not only get better work-lifebalance and create a good
lifestyle for themselves butalso help push this change in
senior living that I think iscoming and going to be needed
and is going to be driven bythose individuals.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Is the quality of life different, like on the side
, versus the hospitality?
Just curious.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I would say if you're working past eight or
nine o'clock in the evenings ina community, then there's
something wrong.
Like you get great work-lifebalance in senior living and you
still get to do all of the foodthings, all of the service
things.
You know you can create greatmenus, you can create great
cocktail menus and beverageprograms and customer service
(25:58):
experiences, and so the chefsthat I think are like, well, I
want to stay in food but I'mkind of tired of the rat race of
the commercial food serviceshould definitely look at senior
living because once you're init, like, you make these
personal connections and againit's becomes relational and not
transactional and I think thequality of life immensely
improves.
You make these personalconnections and again it becomes
relational and nottransactional and I think the
(26:19):
quality of life immenselyimproves.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
That's amazing, and Aaron has so many tips to share
and he also has a podcast.
So, aaron, would you mindsharing ways that people can
reach out to you for yourservices?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Absolutely, you can connect with us.
Our website istrestlehospitalityconceptscom.
The podcast is Tips fromTrestle.
You can find that anywhere youlisten to podcasts.
We have a lot of greatconversations and really just
trying to bring in that elevatedexperience for senior living
operators.
And obviously you can connectwith me on LinkedIn, twitter, x,
(26:59):
instagram, all of the socialmedia channels.
We are all over the place andwe'd love to connect and, you
know, let you learn more aboutus and learn about how we can
support you and your operations.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, aaron, you're a wealth of knowledge and it's
just.
I'm really honored to have youon the podcast today and giving
us some tips, and so weappreciate you guys joining in
on this episode on ConfessionsBeyond the Food.
See you next time.
For more inspiration, followour social media at W3Sales.
Please like, comment andsubscribe.
(27:35):
You know all the things wewould love to connect with you.
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