Please leave me feedback. I cannot respond so if you'd like me to respond, please leave your email
Is the story you’ve been telling yourself keeping you stuck?
Maybe it’s not the circumstances that need to shift, but your perspective on them and how you feel inside.
In this episode, I talk with Karen Fabian, a yoga teacher, podcast host, and founder of Bare Bones Yoga. She left her high-level corporate job to pursue a more meaningful path. We discuss what it looks like to make a midlife career change, especially when self-doubt arises and old narratives resurface.
Karen shares how healing with yoga and somatic healing helped her release grief, rebuild her life, and create a business that supports other women. We also discuss the importance of mindset shifts and how practices such as movement, meditation, and visualization can foster personal growth for women.
You’ll learn:
- How to overcome self-doubt in midlife
- The benefits of somatic practices for emotional healing and resilience
- How to create lasting change through small, consistent steps
- The six pillars for confronting self-doubt and embracing new opportunities at any age.
If you’re navigating change, questioning what comes next, or working through old beliefs that no longer serve you, this conversation is for you.
Listen now and share this with a friend who could use some support on their journey.
Much love,
Laurie
Free Guides
Click here to schedule a FREE inquiry call with me.
Click here to fill out my questionnaire
Click here for my FREE “Beginner’s Guide to Somatic Healing”
Click here for my FREE Core Values Exercise
Click here to purchase my book: Sandwiched: A Memoir of Holding On and Letting Go
Karen Fabian
Conversations for Yoga Teachers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laurie James (00:02):
Lori, hey there.
It's Lori, two quickannouncements before we get
started on today's episode.
First, I've made a little moreroom in my schedule to take one
more one on one client. So ifyou've been thinking about
learning more about your nervoussystem and developing a
relationship with it so youcould find more freedom in your
(00:24):
life. Consider this the universetapping you on the shoulder.
Click the link in the show notesand schedule a free inquiry call
today before that spot getsfilled up second. Thank you to
those of you who have answeredmy questionnaire about a new
offering that I'm creating. I'mkeeping this questionnaire or
(00:45):
survey open for one more week,so if you have 10 minutes to
spare, I would greatlyappreciate your feedback. There
is no obligation, and it reallyallows me to create an offering
that would meet your needs, notwhat I think you want, and enjoy
my conversation with my guesttoday, Karen Fabien. She's a
(01:07):
yoga teacher, podcast host andbusiness owner, and she's going
to share with you how she wentfrom a C suite executive to
finding a more purpose drivencareer. And she's also going to
share her six pillars toovercoming self doubt and
embracing new opportunities atany age. So enjoy our
(01:28):
conversation. Welcome toConfessions of a free bird
podcast. I'm your host. LoriJames, a mother divorce, a
recovering caregiver, the authorof sandwiched A Memoir of
holding on and letting go, atherapy junkie, relationship
coach, somatic healer and nowpodcaster, I'm a free spirit,
(01:53):
and here to lift you up on thispodcast, I'll share soulful
confessions and empoweringconversations with influential
expert, so you can learn tospread your wings and make the
most of your second half. So popin those ear buds, turn up the
volume, and let's get inspired,because my mission is to help
(02:13):
you create your most joyful,Purpose Driven Life, one
confession at a time. Welcomeback for you birds, and thank
you so much for being with metoday. I am sharing the mic
today with Karen Fabian. Karenis a yoga teacher, podcast host,
(02:34):
author and founder of bare bonesyoga. Karen has a background in
rehabilitative medicine andhealthcare, and integrates her
deep knowledge of anatomy andmovement into her teachings as a
certified personal trainer andcorrective exercise specialist,
Karen empowers yoga teachers tolead confident, accessible
(02:57):
classes while understanding thewhy behind their cues, and
today, we are going to talkabout a couple different topics.
One, how she pivoted her career,how to help overcome self doubt
and embrace new opportunities aswomen in midlife. And lastly,
(03:18):
pick up a few yoga practices andas sadness that has been
successful for her that she'sgoing to share. Karen also hosts
the podcast conversations foryoga teachers, if any yoga
teachers are out therelistening, that covers anatomy,
sequencing, expert insights fromleaders in the industry. So
(03:39):
welcome Karen, and thank you somuch for being here with me
today. Oh my
Karen Fabian (03:43):
goodness, thank you so much for that lovely
introduction, and thanks forinviting me on your show. Yes,
Laurie James (03:48):
of course, as we've talked about before, we
hit record, yoga is been a huge,huge part of my life for the
last 15 years. It's been such apillar in my weekly exercise, I
kind of got into yoga because Iwanted the workout. But when I
(04:12):
came out of my first couple ofclasses and felt this sense of
calm and focus, I think that'swhat brought me back, that's my
confession. Can you share withour listeners and take us back
to when you decided to leaveyour six figure career behind,
and what was the turning pointthat made you take that leap?
(04:36):
Because that's a lot of securityto leave behind. Yeah,
Karen Fabian (04:40):
it certainly was.
I mean, what I'm drawn to interms of the beginning of it was
when I was married years ago,and I married somebody that I
went to college with. It was oneof those things that kind of
creeped up on us. We didn'texpect that we were going to
start dating. We knew each otherfor a long, long time. And we
ended up dating and gettingengaged and getting married, and
(05:02):
everything was great until itwasn't great, and
Laurie James (05:08):
I know that well, yeah, no fault
Karen Fabian (05:11):
of either of us. I think, honestly, even in
retrospect, I don't even think Iwould have done it differently.
It's just the way it happened.
And when we got to the point,after counseling and
conversation that we knew itwasn't going to work, I
basically said, All I need is alittle bit of money to go back
(05:32):
up to Boston from where we wereliving in Atlanta, and I just
need a car and that's it. Wedon't need anything complicated
to extricate ourselves from thisfrom this marriage. And so we
just sort of worked it out onour own. And when I drove up to
Boston and I took that money asa down payment on a house, one
(05:54):
of the first things I did was Iwent on vacation by myself to
this wellness experience in StLucia, never taken a yoga class
before, and one of the things onthe daily agenda one day was a
yoga class, and it was in thisreally cool room that looked
over the ocean. And I was a preathletic person. I had just
(06:15):
never done yoga, and I went tothis class, and I literally
sobbed the entire time, and noidea. I mean, I knew sort of
why, but I was so taken aback.
And I can, I mean, this was in1999 and I can put myself in the
(06:36):
room. It was up on stiltslooking out the ocean, and I
could barely do the posesbecause I was so overtaken with
emotion. So if you don't mind mestopping you there for a minute,
you said you think you knew why,or you thought you knew why,
that you were having all thisemotion. What was it? In your
opinion, to me, it was the lossof what I thought I would have
(07:01):
for a long time. And so you weregrieving. It was the grief
absolutely coming up. Yeah,absolutely. And part of me was
the person who thought I wouldgo to college, get married, get
a good job, and I was doing allof that. And so the part about
the marriage didn't work out. Itook it as I failed, yeah, and
(07:26):
especially where it was somebodyI went to college with, and I
knew for so long. I remember Icalled my mom, and when we went
on our first date, she was like,who you know? And I said, Yeah,
because she had met him, son ofcollege at Boston University,
when we were standing in line tocheck into the dorm, and she was
(07:46):
like, Are you dating him fromfreshman year, I just felt like
I failed a big part of my life,and was where the pain and The
loss was expressed from. And atthe same time that experience,
when I got home from thevacation, was on my mind, like,
(08:09):
what was it about that modalitythat lit the spark to that
release? And as someone who'dworked initially, I thought I
wanted to be a physicaltherapist. I ended up switching
programs because I wanted towork with mind body. So jobs
were in clinical settings,working with people that had all
(08:29):
different kinds of physicaltrauma, but working with the
mind and the body. And afterprobably a handful of months of
past that experience ofvacation. Randomly, a friend of
mine said, Come to this yogaclass. And I went to this yoga
class that he had been going toat a studio, and my mind just
(08:51):
exploded. I took this class andI said, this is what I want to
do. This is absolutely it forme. It's this amalgam of all
these things I love, the mind,the body, the anatomy, the
physical, the mental, thehealing, the somatic. And that
started a path of practicingmore at this studio, going to
(09:12):
teacher trainings by the personwho ran the studio, and then
knowing that I had to extricatemyself from my corporate career,
which at that point was acareer, was a very sensitive
career. I was like a C levelperson, and my identity was very
wrapped up in that. And at thesame time, I was very passionate
(09:33):
about teaching yoga and havingthat be my life's focus. Yeah.
Laurie James (09:37):
So before you go on, I just want to say something
from a somatic place for ourlisteners, because so yoga tell
me if I'm off on this becauseyou're the instructor. I'm not,
and you have much moreexperience. I'm just I'm a yogi,
not a yoga teacher. That it wasyou were able to grieve because
(09:58):
you were allowing your body to.
Slow down, right? Becausehealing happens in the pause,
and healing happens when we slowthings down. And our society
doesn't allow us and it teachesus to go, go, go, go, do, do,
do. What's your take on that the
Karen Fabian (10:18):
slowing and the stillness and the presence is
sort of the elixir that createsthe environment for noticing,
and the noticing so much isrevealed, right? And sometimes
even in the noticing, the painthat is able to come to the
(10:39):
surface and be released. I mean,we all know people who live with
pain, physical or otherwise
Laurie James (10:47):
or emotional, which can feel physical and can
be as painful as physical,right, and
Karen Fabian (10:55):
can lead to disease. I mean, so much now the
science is the connectionbetween the emotional state and
the physical state, with regardto stress and blood pressure and
a whole bunch of things, and
Laurie James (11:08):
for women, autoimmune issues, totally Yes.
Karen Fabian (11:11):
So there's absolutely that connection. So
to answer your question, thepractice of yoga, obviously,
there's different styles. Whatthey all share is movement and
breath and moments of stillness,and there aren't a lot of other
ways to exercise that focus onthose things. Everything sort of
(11:32):
has a different focus. And it'snot to say bad, right, wrong,
anything binary. It's just toanswer your question. I think
it's oftentimes, I think whypeople are hesitant to practice
because
Laurie James (11:46):
they find it boring, or their mind wanders
and it's hard to stay focused onthe breath and the movement,
because it does slow down. Ijust wanted to make that point
only because we're alwaysgrowing and healing and
different things. But throughthe eight year period of time in
my life that I wrote about in mybook, sandwiched, if there's any
(12:10):
new listeners on here, yoga wasa very as I said earlier on, a
pivotal point. But I also hadsome of my greatest releases, or
greatest moments of releasingthat grief or sadness or
whatever it is I was workingthrough at the time, during yoga
(12:32):
or in shavasana, right? Totally.
So that's why I wanted to stopthere and kind of point that
out. No,
Karen Fabian (12:40):
I thank you for that. I think it's a really
important point, and I think thestory sort of gave us a chance
to bring it to the surface. Soyeah, continue on. Yeah. So at
that point, I was very clear onwhat I wanted to do, even though
the practical part of me waslike, what are you really
thinking of doing here? But Iworked out a plan where I sold
(13:01):
my house, I downsized to a condoin Boston that was close to the
studio. I got a job for thestudio, teaching there and also
supporting the main teacherbehind the scenes on the
business side of things, so Ipretty much thought I had things
covered. And that was when Ileft my six figure job to go
(13:22):
teach yoga, which I distinctlyremember the job I had at the
time. People were like, This was2002 you know, you're crazy,
yeah, yeah, yeah, but you're notexperiencing what I'm
experiencing. I know this iswhat I want to do. And so that
really was the fork in the road,kind of the turning point for
me, where I thought I left mycorporate career behind forever.
(13:46):
What ended up happening was,although I loved it, and I loved
my first foray into teaching, Iwas not making enough money. And
even though I had this nest eggfrom selling the house and I was
pretty savvy with what I wasdoing. It just wasn't enough,
and it was really a problem withthe model I had. I was really
(14:07):
very much ensconced in workingfor this other person. Really
couldn't create my own brand andmy own opportunities and set my
own grades. It was pretty muchteach for this place. Get paid
what they pay you, and you're sobusy with that there really
isn't any time to do anything atmy own rate and make more money.
(14:28):
So I built up a lot of debt, andI got to the point where I
remember I called my parents andI said, I'm $30,000 in debt, and
I really think, for now, I haveto go back to work and I'll
teach on the side. And I wasreally it was another point
where I really felt like I hadfailed. I had left this
(14:49):
corporate career to do this onmy own, which really wasn't, in
retrospect, on my own, because Ihad sort of hitched my wagon to
this person. But at the time, itseemed like a really good plan.
Right? And so there was a partof me that felt like I had
failed, but the practical partof me knew I had to fix this
problem of the debt. So wentback to work, actually, for one
(15:10):
of the divisions of the company,a company I'd worked for before,
and I did that for probably twoyears, paid off the debt, kept
teaching on the side, and thenright around the time that there
was that sort of big economicdownturn where the mortgages
were sort of crumbling in 2008Yeah, right around there it was
(15:32):
more for me, more around like, alittle bit later, like 2009 a
lot of the students that werecoming to my classes couldn't
afford to come anymore. So Ifound this location where I
could teach yoga classes andjust charge $10 it was in the
heart of Boston, right behindFen light Park the field, and I
just charged 10 bucks. And Icalled it bare bones yoga,
(15:53):
because you bring your ownstuff. We're just going to do
yoga. And I had a sign that Ihung up like this big banner on
the days I taught classes, itwas actually a renovated gas
station, so it had this verysort of industrial vibe. It was
actually really cool. And I didthat for a number of months, and
then the space had to berevamped for something else. But
(16:16):
I kept the name, and at thatpoint, I said, I can do this now
with this name as my brand, andbecause I had left this other
studio system to go back towork, I thought, this is now
what I'm going to do. I'm goingto build up this brand as my
own. So I left the corporate jobfor the second time, and now I
(16:40):
had the freedom to create my ownbusiness, which I really didn't
have before, and that's what Idid. I created this whole
portfolio of differentopportunities, everything from
teaching in corporates, teachingprivates, teaching children
working in different nonprofitsettings, teaching prenatal in
hospitals. I literally had thisspreadsheet with 15 different
(17:02):
tabs. Each tab was like adifferent silo of different
kinds of yoga. And along withthat, because I have an
expertise in anatomy andteachers have such a hard time
learning it, I created a virtualprogram teachers anatomy,
because the business side of mesaid I need something that
scales, even if I teach 100classes a week, I be running all
(17:24):
over the place. It's not alivable, scalable
Laurie James (17:28):
that's the hardest part I think about wanting to be
a yoga instructor is it has tobe a sidekick, unless you do
something like this, right?
Karen Fabian (17:39):
And so that's the business. Side of me knew that
that was something I needed tocreate, so I started the process
of doing that, and that overtime really became my main
focus. And certainly, when COVIDand the pandemic happened and
all the studios shut down, thankGod I had that online virtual
(18:02):
program, because you were aheadof the game. I was ahead. I had
been on Zoom for years wheneverybody was trying to figure
it out, and I had a lot ofteachers enroll, and that sort
of force shifted me into thelife I wanted, because I had
been running around Bostonteaching yoga for 22 years. I'd
(18:24):
walked all over town in everykind of weather for, you know,
all different kinds of classes,and I really wanted to
transition from that, but Iwould have never walked away
from the teaching part unless Ididn't have a choice, and with
the pandemic, I didn't so atthis point, the main thing I do,
(18:44):
I teach one class a week. Themain thing I do, though, is I
support yoga teachers in myprogram. And even though it's
about anatomy, it's also helpingteachers, primarily women,
mostly women in midlife, whodecided to either focus on
teaching as a side gig or reallystart teaching more regularly.
(19:06):
And part of what they want is toreally develop on the personal
side, so they can go into theirclasses and feel confident. And
so that brings me to theconversation with you, because a
lot of what we talk about reallytranscends teaching a yoga
class. It really is about, howcan I show up in the world as my
(19:26):
most confident person?
Laurie James (19:29):
Confidence and embracing change in midlife,
right, overcoming what we viewmaybe as a failure. And I want
to go back to that point,because you had two different
failure experiences, one failedmarriage, and a lot of women
listening. Often. I get a lot ofpeople that are either thinking
(19:51):
about divorce, that are goingthrough a divorce, or that have
been divorced. I attract a lotof those listeners. So how did
you. Overcome that belief Thisis a failure. My marriage is a
failure. Me becoming a yogainstructor has been a failure
because, because that's a beliefsystem and fill in the blank
(20:16):
whatever it is my career was afailure. I was a failure as a
mother, whatever it is, we oftenget to midlife and feel like we
have been a failure in some way.
So how do we change that mindsetand that perspective?
Karen Fabian (20:31):
Yeah, well, for me, and I think this maybe is
something that your listenerscan relate to, I, up until that
point, had created a whole bunchof stories to sort of hold up
this perception I had of myself.
So I had a story about why thedivorce happened. I had a story
about why I had to go back towork and put my teaching sort of
on the side. I even had storiesat the present moment, not the
(20:56):
present now, but the presentthen, why my business wasn't
growing like I wanted it to, andI even got to a point, probably
about 10 years ago, where Ithought, forget it. I'm not
going to teach yoga anymore.
This just isn't working for me.
I had so many stories built upthat were reinforcing in my mind
a lot of the limiting beliefs Ihad about myself. One of them
(21:20):
was I had a couple of reallygood friends who were on the
cover of Yoga Journal, and Ididn't really know how they got
that opportunity, but I was justso jealous and so in, just so in
jealousy that Who are they to beon the cover of Yoga Journal and
get all that publicity? I had agood friend of mine who got this
really amazing gig with a verylarge brand, and that just
(21:41):
catapulted her to so muchexposure that she was just
fending off people to, like,work with her and come to her
events and that sort of thing.
And that had me like, why isn'tthat happening to me? So I had
all these stories, and I gotmyself to the point where I
really thought I was going toquit teaching, and I went out
(22:04):
before I quit and I hired aneuroscience coach. I didn't
want to hire a career coach. Iwas self aware that it was
something in the way I wasinterpreting things and seeing
the and so I knew that aneuroscience coach could help me
shift the way I looked atthings. And in our first
meeting, she asked me just anopen ended question, and I
(22:27):
started to go into thesestories, and she said, Karen,
I'm just gonna cut you off righthere. If you're going to use
this time to just tell me allthese stories, you might as well
save your money. And I literallyburst out into tears, because
all of a sudden, all that armor,those stories were my defense
(22:50):
system, or my excuses, was thereason why. And she could see
that, and she called me on it,and I realized, oh my god, if I
don't have those stories, it'sme, it's me. I need to now face
what's happening, and not somuch sink or swim, but see that
(23:12):
there's an opportunity for me tolet go of these stories when I'm
maybe not exactly sure what's onthe other side, but realizing
that it's got to be better thanthis, that work I did with her,
because at that point, I made achoice that I wasn't going to
(23:34):
hold on to these storiesanymore. I don't know if she
hadn't have asked me that, ifshe hadn't have seen that if I
would have ended up movingforward, I probably would have
quit, but interesting enough,our work shifted then to not
helping me leave yoga and find aregular job, but actually
helping me release my attachmentto all these stories, and I
(23:57):
ended up, from that experience,becoming fascinated with neuro
linguistic programming and howpeople's beliefs drive how they
experience themselves and otherpeople and experiences they
have, and this is a huge part ofthe work I do with yoga teachers
in my program who yes, it'syoga, but to go In and teach
(24:20):
yoga and feel confident you havefeel confident when you're
walking around right
Laurie James (24:26):
and again, from a somatic place, oftentimes and
different people have differentopinions on this, but from the
training, the three years oftraining that I have done, our
nervous system is the onesending those messages up into
our brain because of a pastexperience. And so if you've had
(24:52):
a failure as a child, if you gota bad grade and you were shamed
about it, or whatever it is.
Yes, that same fee and you andyou weren't witnessed, it's
going to show up. And so inorder for us to work through our
belief systems, from a somaticstandpoint, is we need to do the
certain somatic practices tohelp with that, and so much of
(25:20):
the coaching training that Ihave done, I've always been
attracted to the tools that arebody based because they've made
such a difference on me whenI've worked with coaches that do
that, and I think that's why Iwas so attracted to the somatic
piece too, or the somaticexperiencing practitioner
(25:41):
training that I've taken wasbecause I felt I was able to
feel that confidence. I was ableto feel more present once I
worked through and realized, oh,I can regulate my own nervous
system, and then my nervoussystem no longer is sending me
those signals and thosemessages. And yoga can help with
(26:05):
that, being calm, bringingourselves down, because so many
of us live up in our sympatheticnervous system, go, go, go, do,
do, do. We've got, you know, 20things on our to do list, and
you know, we gotta call walk thedog, and gotta go to the grocery
store, whatever it is that's onour list, so we don't allow
(26:26):
ourselves, and that's why I loveyoga, because it brings us down.
So anyways, we got off on atangent, but I just wanted to
share that with our listeners,because I think that that's an
important and there aremindfulness coaches that believe
it starts in the brain, andthere's some studies, but all of
the nervous system studies andresearch that is being done now
(26:50):
is showing that the nervoussystem is sending those signals,
because what it does issomething New is dangerous,
right? We like certainty and welike familiar, and uncertainty
looks like danger, so it's goingto send a signal to our nervous
system that's a threat. We don'twant to do that. So when we can
(27:13):
learn that we can calm ournervous system down with certain
practices and be able to thenget unstuck easier. It's not the
only thing that helps us getunstuck, but it's, in my
opinion, one of the major piecesthat can help anyways. No, I
Karen Fabian (27:30):
agree, and even when we talk about the familiar,
it's interesting to me, becausewhen I'll work with a teacher
and she'll be talking about notfeeling very confident when
she's teaching her classes, alot of the triggers that happen
when she walks into the room arefamiliar sensations from other
parts of her life, like womanwho is in a relationship where
(27:52):
she's sort of subservient to thehusband I had this one woman
whose husband even characterizedher as a wallflower, but yet
she'd drawn to teach yoga, whichis definitely not something
somebody does who thinks ofhimself as a wallflower in a
relationship with somebody whokind of supports that identity.
And so that was a familiar thingto her, and still, she saw there
(28:18):
was another opportunity
Laurie James (28:20):
and good for her for doing that. And the other
thing that I want to say justaround this is getting in front
of people and either teaching orpublic speaking, that is one of
the scariest things as humans,as not just women in midlife,
but every human being. There'sbeen a ton of research done on
(28:42):
this, that is the scariest thingany of us can do. Yep,
Karen Fabian (28:47):
it's so true, and that's why it's fascinating to
me. When I work with people andthey even if they intellectually
knew that they don't oftenconnect it to what they're
doing. And so I always say tothe teachers I work with. You
know this is such a huge growthopportunity for you, because in
your work to be the teacher youwant to be, you're going to
(29:10):
develop a better relationshipwith yourself. I sort of think
about it like the sword from thestone, right? The Sword and the
Stone is mired in this concretethat's born out over years and
years of telling yourselfcertain things and hearing
certain things and developingcertain behaviors and developing
defense mechanisms and storiesand on and on. But as you sit in
(29:33):
stillness, and as you do thesomatic practices, and as you
have even the smallest amount ofwillingness towards a better way
of experiencing yourself, youstart to kind of pull that sword
out of the stone. And I thinkyou know, some of the stories I
related to you really werepivotal moments where I pulled
(29:55):
that sword out. And that really,to me, was. What I experienced a
second chance in a way,
Laurie James (30:03):
yeah, absolutely.
And was it as scary as youthought it was before, while the
sword was still in?
Karen Fabian (30:11):
Yeah, it's interesting. I can't remember
literally that saying, but it'sthat saying about the pain of
change,
Laurie James (30:17):
yeah, has to be greater. The pain of not doing
something has to be greater thanthe pain to change, right?
Karen Fabian (30:25):
And I sort of got to the point, especially when I
hired that neuroscience coach,the pain level for me was so
high that I was willing to walkaway from something that I knew
was my dharma. I knew it was mypoint in my purpose in life. It
wasn't to be a corporate woman.
It wasn't to do that, but yet Iwas so frustrated and burdened
with all these stories anddefense mechanisms and
(30:47):
machinations of my mind that I'mwilling to leave it. And so the
pain level for me got highenough. But the interesting
thing was, and this is why I sayto people, sometimes it's
sometimes not as far away as youthink to be the person you want
to be. And in this particularsituation that I related before,
it really was simply herobservation of how I was seeing
(31:09):
the world.
Laurie James (31:13):
But here, I think, is an important piece that our
listeners need to grasp orhopefully understand, I don't
want to tell them they have to,because we don't have to do
anything, right? You were readyto receive that information at
that time, and our nervoussystems, our minds, aren't
(31:34):
always ready to receive thatinformation. And so I think that
goes back to you. It happened inthe time line that was meant for
you, right? And also, from anervous system standpoint, it
happened when you were ready,when your nervous system was
ready to receive it and tomanage that change. Yep,
(31:56):
totally.
Karen Fabian (31:57):
And I think, and you can probably relate to this
as a coach, whenever I speak tosomeone, and obviously in my
world, it's a yoga teacher. Andwhenever I speak to a yoga
teacher who's in struggle,whatever that looks like, I
always can see through theirstruggle to the person inside
them that has a higher potentialyet, and what a gift that is.
(32:22):
Yeah, and oftentimes the persondoesn't see it, right, but it's
Laurie James (32:25):
always easier for us. It's harder for us to see
what we need to do. It's easierto see what other people need to
do. Totally
Karen Fabian (32:33):
the thing, though, that you reminded me of that is
because even though I see thatsometimes the person's not ready
to take steps towards thatvision, and it always sort of
doesn't break my heart, butthere's just a little part of me
that sort of just feels thesadness at the same time I can
(32:55):
appreciate you know I've, infact, have had Women admit to me
if I invest in your program, Ifeel guilty because that's
$2,000 I could spend on my kids.
But this could be a woman who'sspending hours every week
prepping for their classesbecause they're hyper, analyzing
everything they're doing, andseem like the only way I can
(33:17):
feel even the smallest bit ofconfidence is if I over plan and
Laurie James (33:25):
master and be perfectionist, right?
Karen Fabian (33:29):
And so even despite their lived experience
in regards to teaching being sounpleasant, an opportunity to
learn a more streamlined,confident way of teaching, they
then, in their head, will say,Oh, but I couldn't possibly
spend money on myself. I havekids that need that money. This
(33:51):
is a unique experience to women,because men don't typically say
that. They don't typically puttheir needs second. It's not,
obviously a gross overstatement.
I don't want to be, but I thinkit is, you know, for the most
part, an experience that womenhave where there's sort of, you
know, it's kind of like, get onthe plane, put your oxygen mask
(34:12):
on first, but yet, when you'reoff the plane, you're taking
care of everybody.
Laurie James (34:18):
No, we're always putting everybody else's oxygen
mask on first until we eitherfall ill or our pain is so great
we have no choice but to dealwith it. Kind of goes back to
what you were just saying. Youtalk about your framework for
overcoming self doubt andembracing new opportunities. Can
you share with us? Walk usthrough the six pillars of how
(34:40):
they work in practice.
Karen Fabian (34:42):
You know, I sat down on January 1 this year, I
sat in my local Starbucks and Ihad this sort of Epiphany, how
can I pull what I've learnedfrom working with so many yoga
teachers who are women, who aremostly women in midlife, how can
I pull some of what I've.
Learned from working with themand offer it to women in
general, in midlife. And Icreated this thing called a
(35:06):
framework, called the confidencepractice. And I started to sit
there and just sketch it out.
And I envisioned at the centerof the circle the word
confidence, and then spokes on awheel with all the different
practice, which, in a way, issort of like the eight limbs of
yoga, although I wasn't thinkingthat at the time, but it sort of
(35:27):
is another framework that'sfamiliar to me. So one part of
it is what we've talked about,yoga slash movement that has
that physical movement. We canlook at it through the lens of
science and all the benefitsthere, but we can look at it
also through the lens ofsomatics and how it opens the
door to so much of how we feel.
I always leave room for movementyoga, I think is ideal, although
(35:50):
a walk in nature is great, goingfor a jog, whatever it is, I
don't want to box people in tothink it's just yoga. The second
thing is experimentation,meaning trying something new.
And this is such an importantpart. When we look at some of
the NLP sort of mind aspects ofthings, when we have a very
(36:13):
fixed thought about who we areas a person, we tend to not be
open to trying something new.
And all the work I do withteachers, I don't ever say to
them, Oh, stop doing that. Dothis. I say, hey, if doing that
isn't working for you, would yoube willing to teach the same
(36:34):
sequence for five classes andgive yourself a chance to learn
it? And if the person has agrowth mindset and if their
timing is right, like we talkedabout, they'll say, Sure, I'll
try that. And so it's sort oflike Dorothy and the Wizard of
Oz. If they told her at thebeginning the shoe she had on
was going to get her where shewanted to be, she wouldn't have
(36:55):
believed it. She had to gothrough the whole movie to
realize, oh my god, I had thepower all along, and this is a
thing so experimentation as away to challenge the beliefs you
have about yourself. The thirdthing is self inquiry, and that
really shows up in primarilyjournaling, asking yourself
questions on a daily basis,again, in service to challenging
(37:18):
a lot of the stories you haveabout yourself and also how the
world works. You know, this isalways like this. This is always
like that. One of the things mydad always taught me is things
are not always as they seem. Butif we're a perfectionist, if we
have a very rigid way ofthinking, we only see things as
one way, I mean, and
Laurie James (37:39):
then it's also hard to be open and curious
about another way of doing it,or ways or critical thinking.
And what's happening in thatmoment with the nervous system
is that you're kind of shutdown. You might be in a threat
response, but you know, can youstay open and curious about
(38:02):
other ways. How can we solvethis problem? How can I look at
it a different way? Or, youknow, maybe I just need to try
five different ways to see whatworks best totally.
Karen Fabian (38:14):
And that opens up so many new doors to what is
possible for you to do and adifferent way of looking at
something that maybe your wholelife, you looked at a particular
way. The fourth of the six ismeditation. I know people hear
that, and sometimes they think,I can't meditate. How about go
for a walk and don't put youriPods in about and listen
Laurie James (38:38):
to the sounds.
Listen to the sounds stop andsmell the roses. Anything that
can help you be more present
Karen Fabian (38:47):
totally. Sometimes I even just take a long shower
and don't have the TV on, ordon't have, you know, if I like,
just be in the shower with thewater running and
Laurie James (38:59):
feel the water on your body. Feel the water
hitting your body. What does itfeel like?
Karen Fabian (39:06):
Totally and obviously, if you can sit for
five minutes, that's great.
Close your eyes. Number five,one of my favorites, is
visualization ending time everyday, just for a few minutes.
Close your eyes and see what youwant, see what maybe, for the
day, for the week, for themonth, for your life. I do a lot
of this with yoga teachers.
(39:28):
Close your eyes and see yourselfteaching in a way that matches
how you want to show up. Youknow, lots of different
exercises I'll have them do,like power posing and creating a
power avatar, like differentthings to start to get their
break into the mode.
Laurie James (39:44):
Visualization is such a great tool that is, I
think, underutilized and poopooed often.
Karen Fabian (39:51):
And think about how many athletes are
interviewed after the game, andthey say I saw myself winning
even before tonight. So we havethis proof all. All the time,
but so and then number six issort of a basket of different
things, healthy habits. And thatcan look different from person
to person, but there arecertainly some pillars around
(40:12):
nutrition and movement and timeand silence. And there's lots of
different things I have. One ofthe things I love doing is habit
stacking. So like, I'll listento a podcast that's really good
for the soul while I'mexercising, or I'll do it while
I'm going for a walk, or I'veconnected, you know, having my
(40:32):
protein drink before I take thedog. So I try to look for
different ways to connecthealthy habits. So I get two
things done at once, and it alsomakes the association in my
brain. Oh, when I exercise, Ilist, you know, so if I don't
feel like exercising, but I wantto listen to the podcast,
hopefully get it done. So, yeah,so yoga, movement,
(40:53):
experimenting, self inquiry,meditation, visualization and
healthy habits. And one thingI'll just share, I talked a
little bit about it, but yourlisteners, I do have, and I'll
send you the link, a free, selfguided five day challenge called
the five day ConfidenceChallenge, and it has a bunch of
fun things in there. So I'llsend you the link, and if people
are interested, they can takethemselves through that five day
Laurie James (41:15):
definitely. I will definitely leave that in the
show notes for our listeners. SoKaren, I'd love to ask you so
many more questions, but we'rerunning low on time. What's one
confession that you'd like toshare with our listeners that
maybe we haven't touched onbefore? Sure,
Karen Fabian (41:31):
I actually really loved this question, and I kind
of felt like no one has everasked me this before, and yet I
had an absolute immediateresponse, which was that I have
doubts every day. The reason Icall that a confession is
because I'm so confident in whatI'm doing and what I know and
(41:52):
the methodology I've created andthe work I do with yoga
teachers. I'm so passionateabout it, and I just love doing
it so much, and I haveexperience, so I have
confidence. And I think it wouldbe surprising for people who
maybe listen to my podcast orwatch my instagram videos to
think, oh, this person hasdoubts. She seems like she knows
(42:14):
what she's talking about. Ithink the doubts I have live in
the entrepreneurial space, like,is my business successful
enough? Am I presenting my offerin a way that will connect with
yoga teachers? You know, notnecessarily the content of my
teaching, but when you work foryourself and your business is
(42:36):
yourself, your brand isyourself. It is an extension of
you, it is the most mind blowingpersonal growth experiences
ever. But the difference iswhere, years ago, I would have
gone down all sorts of rabbitholes and ended up and I don't
do that anymore. I see it, and Ijust keep moving forward. I just
(43:00):
keep moving forward, sometimesto the point where I think about
heaven O'Leary on Shark Tankwhen he hears a pitch and he'll
go, this is the most awfulbusiness idea ever. And like in
the back of my mind, I'll hearmyself saying, Are you really
just being silly? Just continue.
But I know I just say, No, I'mnot listening to you. I moving
forward, and I can transmute itin maybe a minute or two. And I
(43:26):
just, I have all sorts ofdifferent we all
Laurie James (43:34):
do, like, I question myself often, or you're
tired and you're like, oh mygod, I'm exhausted. But then
it's like, you revive, andyou're like, No, this is my
path. Like, this is what I'msupposed to be doing, and so and
then certain
Karen Fabian (43:49):
things I can like, I can go for a walk, I can go
for a run, I can play music, Ican sing, I can meditate, I can
call a friend. Like, I havethose things that when I get
into that point, I say, do oneof those, if I can't get myself
moving forward, do what, andsometimes just singing couple
songs or going for a quick walk,that it just shifts the brain.
(44:13):
Yeah,
Laurie James (44:13):
it does, because you're regulating your nervous
system when you do those things.
So Karen, thank you so much forbeing here. I will make sure
that all your contactinformation is in the show
notes. And thank you all freebirds for being here, and we'll
see you guys next time. Thankyou for listening to this
(44:34):
episode of Confessions of a freebird. I'm grateful to be in your
ears and hearts. If you'reinterested in becoming a free
bird, I'd love to support you.
Please check out my website atLori e james.com to learn how we
can work together, or to sign upfor my newsletter so you can
(44:55):
receive tips on how to date andrelationship differently and
ultimate. Find more freedom andjoy in your life. If you found
this podcast helpful, pleasefollow or subscribe, rate and
review and share it with friendsso they can find more freedom in
their second or third act. Alsountil next time you.
Lori, hey there.
It's Lori, two quickannouncements before we get
started on today's episode.
First, I've made a little moreroom in my schedule to take one
more one on one client. So ifyou've been thinking about
learning more about your nervoussystem and developing a
relationship with it so youcould find more freedom in your
(00:24):
life. Consider this the universetapping you on the shoulder.
Click the link in the show notesand schedule a free inquiry call
today before that spot getsfilled up second. Thank you to
those of you who have answeredmy questionnaire about a new
offering that I'm creating. I'mkeeping this questionnaire or
(00:45):
survey open for one more week,so if you have 10 minutes to
spare, I would greatlyappreciate your feedback. There
is no obligation, and it reallyallows me to create an offering
that would meet your needs, notwhat I think you want, and enjoy
my conversation with my guesttoday, Karen Fabien. She's a
(01:07):
yoga teacher, podcast host andbusiness owner, and she's going
to share with you how she wentfrom a C suite executive to
finding a more purpose drivencareer. And she's also going to
share her six pillars toovercoming self doubt and
embracing new opportunities atany age. So enjoy our
(01:28):
conversation. Welcome toConfessions of a free bird
podcast. I'm your host. LoriJames, a mother divorce, a
recovering caregiver, the authorof sandwiched A Memoir of
holding on and letting go, atherapy junkie, relationship
coach, somatic healer and nowpodcaster, I'm a free spirit,
(01:53):
and here to lift you up on thispodcast, I'll share soulful
confessions and empoweringconversations with influential
expert, so you can learn tospread your wings and make the
most of your second half. So popin those ear buds, turn up the
volume, and let's get inspired,because my mission is to help
(02:13):
you create your most joyful,Purpose Driven Life, one
confession at a time. Welcomeback for you birds, and thank
you so much for being with metoday. I am sharing the mic
today with Karen Fabian. Karenis a yoga teacher, podcast host,
(02:34):
author and founder of bare bonesyoga. Karen has a background in
rehabilitative medicine andhealthcare, and integrates her
deep knowledge of anatomy andmovement into her teachings as a
certified personal trainer andcorrective exercise specialist,
Karen empowers yoga teachers tolead confident, accessible
(02:57):
classes while understanding thewhy behind their cues, and
today, we are going to talkabout a couple different topics.
One, how she pivoted her career,how to help overcome self doubt
and embrace new opportunities aswomen in midlife. And lastly,
(03:18):
pick up a few yoga practices andas sadness that has been
successful for her that she'sgoing to share. Karen also hosts
the podcast conversations foryoga teachers, if any yoga
teachers are out therelistening, that covers anatomy,
sequencing, expert insights fromleaders in the industry. So
(03:39):
welcome Karen, and thank you somuch for being here with me
today. Oh my
Karen Fabian (03:43):
goodness, thank you so much for that lovely
introduction, and thanks forinviting me on your show. Yes,
Laurie James (03:48):
of course, as we've talked about before, we
hit record, yoga is been a huge,huge part of my life for the
last 15 years. It's been such apillar in my weekly exercise, I
kind of got into yoga because Iwanted the workout. But when I
(04:12):
came out of my first couple ofclasses and felt this sense of
calm and focus, I think that'swhat brought me back, that's my
confession. Can you share withour listeners and take us back
to when you decided to leaveyour six figure career behind,
and what was the turning pointthat made you take that leap?
(04:36):
Because that's a lot of securityto leave behind. Yeah,
Karen Fabian (04:40):
it certainly was.
I mean, what I'm drawn to interms of the beginning of it was
when I was married years ago,and I married somebody that I
went to college with. It was oneof those things that kind of
creeped up on us. We didn'texpect that we were going to
start dating. We knew each otherfor a long, long time. And we
ended up dating and gettingengaged and getting married, and
(05:02):
everything was great until itwasn't great, and
Laurie James (05:08):
I know that well, yeah, no fault
Karen Fabian (05:11):
of either of us. I think, honestly, even in
retrospect, I don't even think Iwould have done it differently.
It's just the way it happened.
And when we got to the point,after counseling and
conversation that we knew itwasn't going to work, I
basically said, All I need is alittle bit of money to go back
(05:32):
up to Boston from where we wereliving in Atlanta, and I just
need a car and that's it. Wedon't need anything complicated
to extricate ourselves from thisfrom this marriage. And so we
just sort of worked it out onour own. And when I drove up to
Boston and I took that money asa down payment on a house, one
(05:54):
of the first things I did was Iwent on vacation by myself to
this wellness experience in StLucia, never taken a yoga class
before, and one of the things onthe daily agenda one day was a
yoga class, and it was in thisreally cool room that looked
over the ocean. And I was a preathletic person. I had just
(06:15):
never done yoga, and I went tothis class, and I literally
sobbed the entire time, and noidea. I mean, I knew sort of
why, but I was so taken aback.
And I can, I mean, this was in1999 and I can put myself in the
(06:36):
room. It was up on stiltslooking out the ocean, and I
could barely do the posesbecause I was so overtaken with
emotion. So if you don't mind mestopping you there for a minute,
you said you think you knew why,or you thought you knew why,
that you were having all thisemotion. What was it? In your
opinion, to me, it was the lossof what I thought I would have
(07:01):
for a long time. And so you weregrieving. It was the grief
absolutely coming up. Yeah,absolutely. And part of me was
the person who thought I wouldgo to college, get married, get
a good job, and I was doing allof that. And so the part about
the marriage didn't work out. Itook it as I failed, yeah, and
(07:26):
especially where it was somebodyI went to college with, and I
knew for so long. I remember Icalled my mom, and when we went
on our first date, she was like,who you know? And I said, Yeah,
because she had met him, son ofcollege at Boston University,
when we were standing in line tocheck into the dorm, and she was
(07:46):
like, Are you dating him fromfreshman year, I just felt like
I failed a big part of my life,and was where the pain and The
loss was expressed from. And atthe same time that experience,
when I got home from thevacation, was on my mind, like,
(08:09):
what was it about that modalitythat lit the spark to that
release? And as someone who'dworked initially, I thought I
wanted to be a physicaltherapist. I ended up switching
programs because I wanted towork with mind body. So jobs
were in clinical settings,working with people that had all
(08:29):
different kinds of physicaltrauma, but working with the
mind and the body. And afterprobably a handful of months of
past that experience ofvacation. Randomly, a friend of
mine said, Come to this yogaclass. And I went to this yoga
class that he had been going toat a studio, and my mind just
(08:51):
exploded. I took this class andI said, this is what I want to
do. This is absolutely it forme. It's this amalgam of all
these things I love, the mind,the body, the anatomy, the
physical, the mental, thehealing, the somatic. And that
started a path of practicingmore at this studio, going to
(09:12):
teacher trainings by the personwho ran the studio, and then
knowing that I had to extricatemyself from my corporate career,
which at that point was acareer, was a very sensitive
career. I was like a C levelperson, and my identity was very
wrapped up in that. And at thesame time, I was very passionate
(09:33):
about teaching yoga and havingthat be my life's focus. Yeah.
Laurie James (09:37):
So before you go on, I just want to say something
from a somatic place for ourlisteners, because so yoga tell
me if I'm off on this becauseyou're the instructor. I'm not,
and you have much moreexperience. I'm just I'm a yogi,
not a yoga teacher. That it wasyou were able to grieve because
(09:58):
you were allowing your body to.
Slow down, right? Becausehealing happens in the pause,
and healing happens when we slowthings down. And our society
doesn't allow us and it teachesus to go, go, go, go, do, do,
do. What's your take on that the
Karen Fabian (10:18):
slowing and the stillness and the presence is
sort of the elixir that createsthe environment for noticing,
and the noticing so much isrevealed, right? And sometimes
even in the noticing, the painthat is able to come to the
(10:39):
surface and be released. I mean,we all know people who live with
pain, physical or otherwise
Laurie James (10:47):
or emotional, which can feel physical and can
be as painful as physical,right, and
Karen Fabian (10:55):
can lead to disease. I mean, so much now the
science is the connectionbetween the emotional state and
the physical state, with regardto stress and blood pressure and
a whole bunch of things, and
Laurie James (11:08):
for women, autoimmune issues, totally Yes.
Karen Fabian (11:11):
So there's absolutely that connection. So
to answer your question, thepractice of yoga, obviously,
there's different styles. Whatthey all share is movement and
breath and moments of stillness,and there aren't a lot of other
ways to exercise that focus onthose things. Everything sort of
(11:32):
has a different focus. And it'snot to say bad, right, wrong,
anything binary. It's just toanswer your question. I think
it's oftentimes, I think whypeople are hesitant to practice
because
Laurie James (11:46):
they find it boring, or their mind wanders
and it's hard to stay focused onthe breath and the movement,
because it does slow down. Ijust wanted to make that point
only because we're alwaysgrowing and healing and
different things. But throughthe eight year period of time in
my life that I wrote about in mybook, sandwiched, if there's any
(12:10):
new listeners on here, yoga wasa very as I said earlier on, a
pivotal point. But I also hadsome of my greatest releases, or
greatest moments of releasingthat grief or sadness or
whatever it is I was workingthrough at the time, during yoga
(12:32):
or in shavasana, right? Totally.
So that's why I wanted to stopthere and kind of point that
out. No,
Karen Fabian (12:40):
I thank you for that. I think it's a really
important point, and I think thestory sort of gave us a chance
to bring it to the surface. Soyeah, continue on. Yeah. So at
that point, I was very clear onwhat I wanted to do, even though
the practical part of me waslike, what are you really
thinking of doing here? But Iworked out a plan where I sold
(13:01):
my house, I downsized to a condoin Boston that was close to the
studio. I got a job for thestudio, teaching there and also
supporting the main teacherbehind the scenes on the
business side of things, so Ipretty much thought I had things
covered. And that was when Ileft my six figure job to go
(13:22):
teach yoga, which I distinctlyremember the job I had at the
time. People were like, This was2002 you know, you're crazy,
yeah, yeah, yeah, but you're notexperiencing what I'm
experiencing. I know this iswhat I want to do. And so that
really was the fork in the road,kind of the turning point for
me, where I thought I left mycorporate career behind forever.
(13:46):
What ended up happening was,although I loved it, and I loved
my first foray into teaching, Iwas not making enough money. And
even though I had this nest eggfrom selling the house and I was
pretty savvy with what I wasdoing. It just wasn't enough,
and it was really a problem withthe model I had. I was really
(14:07):
very much ensconced in workingfor this other person. Really
couldn't create my own brand andmy own opportunities and set my
own grades. It was pretty muchteach for this place. Get paid
what they pay you, and you're sobusy with that there really
isn't any time to do anything atmy own rate and make more money.
(14:28):
So I built up a lot of debt, andI got to the point where I
remember I called my parents andI said, I'm $30,000 in debt, and
I really think, for now, I haveto go back to work and I'll
teach on the side. And I wasreally it was another point
where I really felt like I hadfailed. I had left this
(14:49):
corporate career to do this onmy own, which really wasn't, in
retrospect, on my own, because Ihad sort of hitched my wagon to
this person. But at the time, itseemed like a really good plan.
Right? And so there was a partof me that felt like I had
failed, but the practical partof me knew I had to fix this
problem of the debt. So wentback to work, actually, for one
(15:10):
of the divisions of the company,a company I'd worked for before,
and I did that for probably twoyears, paid off the debt, kept
teaching on the side, and thenright around the time that there
was that sort of big economicdownturn where the mortgages
were sort of crumbling in 2008Yeah, right around there it was
(15:32):
more for me, more around like, alittle bit later, like 2009 a
lot of the students that werecoming to my classes couldn't
afford to come anymore. So Ifound this location where I
could teach yoga classes andjust charge $10 it was in the
heart of Boston, right behindFen light Park the field, and I
just charged 10 bucks. And Icalled it bare bones yoga,
(15:53):
because you bring your ownstuff. We're just going to do
yoga. And I had a sign that Ihung up like this big banner on
the days I taught classes, itwas actually a renovated gas
station, so it had this verysort of industrial vibe. It was
actually really cool. And I didthat for a number of months, and
then the space had to berevamped for something else. But
(16:16):
I kept the name, and at thatpoint, I said, I can do this now
with this name as my brand, andbecause I had left this other
studio system to go back towork, I thought, this is now
what I'm going to do. I'm goingto build up this brand as my
own. So I left the corporate jobfor the second time, and now I
(16:40):
had the freedom to create my ownbusiness, which I really didn't
have before, and that's what Idid. I created this whole
portfolio of differentopportunities, everything from
teaching in corporates, teachingprivates, teaching children
working in different nonprofitsettings, teaching prenatal in
hospitals. I literally had thisspreadsheet with 15 different
(17:02):
tabs. Each tab was like adifferent silo of different
kinds of yoga. And along withthat, because I have an
expertise in anatomy andteachers have such a hard time
learning it, I created a virtualprogram teachers anatomy,
because the business side of mesaid I need something that
scales, even if I teach 100classes a week, I be running all
(17:24):
over the place. It's not alivable, scalable
Laurie James (17:28):
that's the hardest part I think about wanting to be
a yoga instructor is it has tobe a sidekick, unless you do
something like this, right?
Karen Fabian (17:39):
And so that's the business. Side of me knew that
that was something I needed tocreate, so I started the process
of doing that, and that overtime really became my main
focus. And certainly, when COVIDand the pandemic happened and
all the studios shut down, thankGod I had that online virtual
(18:02):
program, because you were aheadof the game. I was ahead. I had
been on Zoom for years wheneverybody was trying to figure
it out, and I had a lot ofteachers enroll, and that sort
of force shifted me into thelife I wanted, because I had
been running around Bostonteaching yoga for 22 years. I'd
(18:24):
walked all over town in everykind of weather for, you know,
all different kinds of classes,and I really wanted to
transition from that, but Iwould have never walked away
from the teaching part unless Ididn't have a choice, and with
the pandemic, I didn't so atthis point, the main thing I do,
(18:44):
I teach one class a week. Themain thing I do, though, is I
support yoga teachers in myprogram. And even though it's
about anatomy, it's also helpingteachers, primarily women,
mostly women in midlife, whodecided to either focus on
teaching as a side gig or reallystart teaching more regularly.
(19:06):
And part of what they want is toreally develop on the personal
side, so they can go into theirclasses and feel confident. And
so that brings me to theconversation with you, because a
lot of what we talk about reallytranscends teaching a yoga
class. It really is about, howcan I show up in the world as my
(19:26):
most confident person?
Laurie James (19:29):
Confidence and embracing change in midlife,
right, overcoming what we viewmaybe as a failure. And I want
to go back to that point,because you had two different
failure experiences, one failedmarriage, and a lot of women
listening. Often. I get a lot ofpeople that are either thinking
(19:51):
about divorce, that are goingthrough a divorce, or that have
been divorced. I attract a lotof those listeners. So how did
you. Overcome that belief Thisis a failure. My marriage is a
failure. Me becoming a yogainstructor has been a failure
because, because that's a beliefsystem and fill in the blank
(20:16):
whatever it is my career was afailure. I was a failure as a
mother, whatever it is, we oftenget to midlife and feel like we
have been a failure in some way.
So how do we change that mindsetand that perspective?
Karen Fabian (20:31):
Yeah, well, for me, and I think this maybe is
something that your listenerscan relate to, I, up until that
point, had created a whole bunchof stories to sort of hold up
this perception I had of myself.
So I had a story about why thedivorce happened. I had a story
about why I had to go back towork and put my teaching sort of
on the side. I even had storiesat the present moment, not the
(20:56):
present now, but the presentthen, why my business wasn't
growing like I wanted it to, andI even got to a point, probably
about 10 years ago, where Ithought, forget it. I'm not
going to teach yoga anymore.
This just isn't working for me.
I had so many stories built upthat were reinforcing in my mind
a lot of the limiting beliefs Ihad about myself. One of them
(21:20):
was I had a couple of reallygood friends who were on the
cover of Yoga Journal, and Ididn't really know how they got
that opportunity, but I was justso jealous and so in, just so in
jealousy that Who are they to beon the cover of Yoga Journal and
get all that publicity? I had agood friend of mine who got this
really amazing gig with a verylarge brand, and that just
(21:41):
catapulted her to so muchexposure that she was just
fending off people to, like,work with her and come to her
events and that sort of thing.
And that had me like, why isn'tthat happening to me? So I had
all these stories, and I gotmyself to the point where I
really thought I was going toquit teaching, and I went out
(22:04):
before I quit and I hired aneuroscience coach. I didn't
want to hire a career coach. Iwas self aware that it was
something in the way I wasinterpreting things and seeing
the and so I knew that aneuroscience coach could help me
shift the way I looked atthings. And in our first
meeting, she asked me just anopen ended question, and I
(22:27):
started to go into thesestories, and she said, Karen,
I'm just gonna cut you off righthere. If you're going to use
this time to just tell me allthese stories, you might as well
save your money. And I literallyburst out into tears, because
all of a sudden, all that armor,those stories were my defense
(22:50):
system, or my excuses, was thereason why. And she could see
that, and she called me on it,and I realized, oh my god, if I
don't have those stories, it'sme, it's me. I need to now face
what's happening, and not somuch sink or swim, but see that
(23:12):
there's an opportunity for me tolet go of these stories when I'm
maybe not exactly sure what's onthe other side, but realizing
that it's got to be better thanthis, that work I did with her,
because at that point, I made achoice that I wasn't going to
(23:34):
hold on to these storiesanymore. I don't know if she
hadn't have asked me that, ifshe hadn't have seen that if I
would have ended up movingforward, I probably would have
quit, but interesting enough,our work shifted then to not
helping me leave yoga and find aregular job, but actually
helping me release my attachmentto all these stories, and I
(23:57):
ended up, from that experience,becoming fascinated with neuro
linguistic programming and howpeople's beliefs drive how they
experience themselves and otherpeople and experiences they
have, and this is a huge part ofthe work I do with yoga teachers
in my program who yes, it'syoga, but to go In and teach
(24:20):
yoga and feel confident you havefeel confident when you're
walking around right
Laurie James (24:26):
and again, from a somatic place, oftentimes and
different people have differentopinions on this, but from the
training, the three years oftraining that I have done, our
nervous system is the onesending those messages up into
our brain because of a pastexperience. And so if you've had
(24:52):
a failure as a child, if you gota bad grade and you were shamed
about it, or whatever it is.
Yes, that same fee and you andyou weren't witnessed, it's
going to show up. And so inorder for us to work through our
belief systems, from a somaticstandpoint, is we need to do the
certain somatic practices tohelp with that, and so much of
(25:20):
the coaching training that Ihave done, I've always been
attracted to the tools that arebody based because they've made
such a difference on me whenI've worked with coaches that do
that, and I think that's why Iwas so attracted to the somatic
piece too, or the somaticexperiencing practitioner
(25:41):
training that I've taken wasbecause I felt I was able to
feel that confidence. I was ableto feel more present once I
worked through and realized, oh,I can regulate my own nervous
system, and then my nervoussystem no longer is sending me
those signals and thosemessages. And yoga can help with
(26:05):
that, being calm, bringingourselves down, because so many
of us live up in our sympatheticnervous system, go, go, go, do,
do, do. We've got, you know, 20things on our to do list, and
you know, we gotta call walk thedog, and gotta go to the grocery
store, whatever it is that's onour list, so we don't allow
(26:26):
ourselves, and that's why I loveyoga, because it brings us down.
So anyways, we got off on atangent, but I just wanted to
share that with our listeners,because I think that that's an
important and there aremindfulness coaches that believe
it starts in the brain, andthere's some studies, but all of
the nervous system studies andresearch that is being done now
(26:50):
is showing that the nervoussystem is sending those signals,
because what it does issomething New is dangerous,
right? We like certainty and welike familiar, and uncertainty
looks like danger, so it's goingto send a signal to our nervous
system that's a threat. We don'twant to do that. So when we can
(27:13):
learn that we can calm ournervous system down with certain
practices and be able to thenget unstuck easier. It's not the
only thing that helps us getunstuck, but it's, in my
opinion, one of the major piecesthat can help anyways. No, I
Karen Fabian (27:30):
agree, and even when we talk about the familiar,
it's interesting to me, becausewhen I'll work with a teacher
and she'll be talking about notfeeling very confident when
she's teaching her classes, alot of the triggers that happen
when she walks into the room arefamiliar sensations from other
parts of her life, like womanwho is in a relationship where
(27:52):
she's sort of subservient to thehusband I had this one woman
whose husband even characterizedher as a wallflower, but yet
she'd drawn to teach yoga, whichis definitely not something
somebody does who thinks ofhimself as a wallflower in a
relationship with somebody whokind of supports that identity.
And so that was a familiar thingto her, and still, she saw there
(28:18):
was another opportunity
Laurie James (28:20):
and good for her for doing that. And the other
thing that I want to say justaround this is getting in front
of people and either teaching orpublic speaking, that is one of
the scariest things as humans,as not just women in midlife,
but every human being. There'sbeen a ton of research done on
(28:42):
this, that is the scariest thingany of us can do. Yep,
Karen Fabian (28:47):
it's so true, and that's why it's fascinating to
me. When I work with people andthey even if they intellectually
knew that they don't oftenconnect it to what they're
doing. And so I always say tothe teachers I work with. You
know this is such a huge growthopportunity for you, because in
your work to be the teacher youwant to be, you're going to
(29:10):
develop a better relationshipwith yourself. I sort of think
about it like the sword from thestone, right? The Sword and the
Stone is mired in this concretethat's born out over years and
years of telling yourselfcertain things and hearing
certain things and developingcertain behaviors and developing
defense mechanisms and storiesand on and on. But as you sit in
(29:33):
stillness, and as you do thesomatic practices, and as you
have even the smallest amount ofwillingness towards a better way
of experiencing yourself, youstart to kind of pull that sword
out of the stone. And I thinkyou know, some of the stories I
related to you really werepivotal moments where I pulled
(29:55):
that sword out. And that really,to me, was. What I experienced a
second chance in a way,
Laurie James (30:03):
yeah, absolutely.
And was it as scary as youthought it was before, while the
sword was still in?
Karen Fabian (30:11):
Yeah, it's interesting. I can't remember
literally that saying, but it'sthat saying about the pain of
change,
Laurie James (30:17):
yeah, has to be greater. The pain of not doing
something has to be greater thanthe pain to change, right?
Karen Fabian (30:25):
And I sort of got to the point, especially when I
hired that neuroscience coach,the pain level for me was so
high that I was willing to walkaway from something that I knew
was my dharma. I knew it was mypoint in my purpose in life. It
wasn't to be a corporate woman.
It wasn't to do that, but yet Iwas so frustrated and burdened
with all these stories anddefense mechanisms and
(30:47):
machinations of my mind that I'mwilling to leave it. And so the
pain level for me got highenough. But the interesting
thing was, and this is why I sayto people, sometimes it's
sometimes not as far away as youthink to be the person you want
to be. And in this particularsituation that I related before,
it really was simply herobservation of how I was seeing
(31:09):
the world.
Laurie James (31:13):
But here, I think, is an important piece that our
listeners need to grasp orhopefully understand, I don't
want to tell them they have to,because we don't have to do
anything, right? You were readyto receive that information at
that time, and our nervoussystems, our minds, aren't
(31:34):
always ready to receive thatinformation. And so I think that
goes back to you. It happened inthe time line that was meant for
you, right? And also, from anervous system standpoint, it
happened when you were ready,when your nervous system was
ready to receive it and tomanage that change. Yep,
(31:56):
totally.
Karen Fabian (31:57):
And I think, and you can probably relate to this
as a coach, whenever I speak tosomeone, and obviously in my
world, it's a yoga teacher. Andwhenever I speak to a yoga
teacher who's in struggle,whatever that looks like, I
always can see through theirstruggle to the person inside
them that has a higher potentialyet, and what a gift that is.
(32:22):
Yeah, and oftentimes the persondoesn't see it, right, but it's
Laurie James (32:25):
always easier for us. It's harder for us to see
what we need to do. It's easierto see what other people need to
do. Totally
Karen Fabian (32:33):
the thing, though, that you reminded me of that is
because even though I see thatsometimes the person's not ready
to take steps towards thatvision, and it always sort of
doesn't break my heart, butthere's just a little part of me
that sort of just feels thesadness at the same time I can
(32:55):
appreciate you know I've, infact, have had Women admit to me
if I invest in your program, Ifeel guilty because that's
$2,000 I could spend on my kids.
But this could be a woman who'sspending hours every week
prepping for their classesbecause they're hyper, analyzing
everything they're doing, andseem like the only way I can
(33:17):
feel even the smallest bit ofconfidence is if I over plan and
Laurie James (33:25):
master and be perfectionist, right?
Karen Fabian (33:29):
And so even despite their lived experience
in regards to teaching being sounpleasant, an opportunity to
learn a more streamlined,confident way of teaching, they
then, in their head, will say,Oh, but I couldn't possibly
spend money on myself. I havekids that need that money. This
(33:51):
is a unique experience to women,because men don't typically say
that. They don't typically puttheir needs second. It's not,
obviously a gross overstatement.
I don't want to be, but I thinkit is, you know, for the most
part, an experience that womenhave where there's sort of, you
know, it's kind of like, get onthe plane, put your oxygen mask
(34:12):
on first, but yet, when you'reoff the plane, you're taking
care of everybody.
Laurie James (34:18):
No, we're always putting everybody else's oxygen
mask on first until we eitherfall ill or our pain is so great
we have no choice but to dealwith it. Kind of goes back to
what you were just saying. Youtalk about your framework for
overcoming self doubt andembracing new opportunities. Can
you share with us? Walk usthrough the six pillars of how
(34:40):
they work in practice.
Karen Fabian (34:42):
You know, I sat down on January 1 this year, I
sat in my local Starbucks and Ihad this sort of Epiphany, how
can I pull what I've learnedfrom working with so many yoga
teachers who are women, who aremostly women in midlife, how can
I pull some of what I've.
Learned from working with themand offer it to women in
general, in midlife. And Icreated this thing called a
(35:06):
framework, called the confidencepractice. And I started to sit
there and just sketch it out.
And I envisioned at the centerof the circle the word
confidence, and then spokes on awheel with all the different
practice, which, in a way, issort of like the eight limbs of
yoga, although I wasn't thinkingthat at the time, but it sort of
(35:27):
is another framework that'sfamiliar to me. So one part of
it is what we've talked about,yoga slash movement that has
that physical movement. We canlook at it through the lens of
science and all the benefitsthere, but we can look at it
also through the lens ofsomatics and how it opens the
door to so much of how we feel.
I always leave room for movementyoga, I think is ideal, although
(35:50):
a walk in nature is great, goingfor a jog, whatever it is, I
don't want to box people in tothink it's just yoga. The second
thing is experimentation,meaning trying something new.
And this is such an importantpart. When we look at some of
the NLP sort of mind aspects ofthings, when we have a very
(36:13):
fixed thought about who we areas a person, we tend to not be
open to trying something new.
And all the work I do withteachers, I don't ever say to
them, Oh, stop doing that. Dothis. I say, hey, if doing that
isn't working for you, would yoube willing to teach the same
(36:34):
sequence for five classes andgive yourself a chance to learn
it? And if the person has agrowth mindset and if their
timing is right, like we talkedabout, they'll say, Sure, I'll
try that. And so it's sort oflike Dorothy and the Wizard of
Oz. If they told her at thebeginning the shoe she had on
was going to get her where shewanted to be, she wouldn't have
(36:55):
believed it. She had to gothrough the whole movie to
realize, oh my god, I had thepower all along, and this is a
thing so experimentation as away to challenge the beliefs you
have about yourself. The thirdthing is self inquiry, and that
really shows up in primarilyjournaling, asking yourself
questions on a daily basis,again, in service to challenging
(37:18):
a lot of the stories you haveabout yourself and also how the
world works. You know, this isalways like this. This is always
like that. One of the things mydad always taught me is things
are not always as they seem. Butif we're a perfectionist, if we
have a very rigid way ofthinking, we only see things as
one way, I mean, and
Laurie James (37:39):
then it's also hard to be open and curious
about another way of doing it,or ways or critical thinking.
And what's happening in thatmoment with the nervous system
is that you're kind of shutdown. You might be in a threat
response, but you know, can youstay open and curious about
(38:02):
other ways. How can we solvethis problem? How can I look at
it a different way? Or, youknow, maybe I just need to try
five different ways to see whatworks best totally.
Karen Fabian (38:14):
And that opens up so many new doors to what is
possible for you to do and adifferent way of looking at
something that maybe your wholelife, you looked at a particular
way. The fourth of the six ismeditation. I know people hear
that, and sometimes they think,I can't meditate. How about go
for a walk and don't put youriPods in about and listen
Laurie James (38:38):
to the sounds.
Listen to the sounds stop andsmell the roses. Anything that
can help you be more present
Karen Fabian (38:47):
totally. Sometimes I even just take a long shower
and don't have the TV on, ordon't have, you know, if I like,
just be in the shower with thewater running and
Laurie James (38:59):
feel the water on your body. Feel the water
hitting your body. What does itfeel like?
Karen Fabian (39:06):
Totally and obviously, if you can sit for
five minutes, that's great.
Close your eyes. Number five,one of my favorites, is
visualization ending time everyday, just for a few minutes.
Close your eyes and see what youwant, see what maybe, for the
day, for the week, for themonth, for your life. I do a lot
of this with yoga teachers.
(39:28):
Close your eyes and see yourselfteaching in a way that matches
how you want to show up. Youknow, lots of different
exercises I'll have them do,like power posing and creating a
power avatar, like differentthings to start to get their
break into the mode.
Laurie James (39:44):
Visualization is such a great tool that is, I
think, underutilized and poopooed often.
Karen Fabian (39:51):
And think about how many athletes are
interviewed after the game, andthey say I saw myself winning
even before tonight. So we havethis proof all. All the time,
but so and then number six issort of a basket of different
things, healthy habits. And thatcan look different from person
to person, but there arecertainly some pillars around
(40:12):
nutrition and movement and timeand silence. And there's lots of
different things I have. One ofthe things I love doing is habit
stacking. So like, I'll listento a podcast that's really good
for the soul while I'mexercising, or I'll do it while
I'm going for a walk, or I'veconnected, you know, having my
(40:32):
protein drink before I take thedog. So I try to look for
different ways to connecthealthy habits. So I get two
things done at once, and it alsomakes the association in my
brain. Oh, when I exercise, Ilist, you know, so if I don't
feel like exercising, but I wantto listen to the podcast,
hopefully get it done. So, yeah,so yoga, movement,
(40:53):
experimenting, self inquiry,meditation, visualization and
healthy habits. And one thingI'll just share, I talked a
little bit about it, but yourlisteners, I do have, and I'll
send you the link, a free, selfguided five day challenge called
the five day ConfidenceChallenge, and it has a bunch of
fun things in there. So I'llsend you the link, and if people
are interested, they can takethemselves through that five day
Laurie James (41:15):
definitely. I will definitely leave that in the
show notes for our listeners. SoKaren, I'd love to ask you so
many more questions, but we'rerunning low on time. What's one
confession that you'd like toshare with our listeners that
maybe we haven't touched onbefore? Sure,
Karen Fabian (41:31):
I actually really loved this question, and I kind
of felt like no one has everasked me this before, and yet I
had an absolute immediateresponse, which was that I have
doubts every day. The reason Icall that a confession is
because I'm so confident in whatI'm doing and what I know and
(41:52):
the methodology I've created andthe work I do with yoga
teachers. I'm so passionateabout it, and I just love doing
it so much, and I haveexperience, so I have
confidence. And I think it wouldbe surprising for people who
maybe listen to my podcast orwatch my instagram videos to
think, oh, this person hasdoubts. She seems like she knows
(42:14):
what she's talking about. Ithink the doubts I have live in
the entrepreneurial space, like,is my business successful
enough? Am I presenting my offerin a way that will connect with
yoga teachers? You know, notnecessarily the content of my
teaching, but when you work foryourself and your business is
(42:36):
yourself, your brand isyourself. It is an extension of
you, it is the most mind blowingpersonal growth experiences
ever. But the difference iswhere, years ago, I would have
gone down all sorts of rabbitholes and ended up and I don't
do that anymore. I see it, and Ijust keep moving forward. I just
(43:00):
keep moving forward, sometimesto the point where I think about
heaven O'Leary on Shark Tankwhen he hears a pitch and he'll
go, this is the most awfulbusiness idea ever. And like in
the back of my mind, I'll hearmyself saying, Are you really
just being silly? Just continue.
But I know I just say, No, I'mnot listening to you. I moving
forward, and I can transmute itin maybe a minute or two. And I
(43:26):
just, I have all sorts ofdifferent we all
Laurie James (43:34):
do, like, I question myself often, or you're
tired and you're like, oh mygod, I'm exhausted. But then
it's like, you revive, andyou're like, No, this is my
path. Like, this is what I'msupposed to be doing, and so and
then certain
Karen Fabian (43:49):
things I can like, I can go for a walk, I can go
for a run, I can play music, Ican sing, I can meditate, I can
call a friend. Like, I havethose things that when I get
into that point, I say, do oneof those, if I can't get myself
moving forward, do what, andsometimes just singing couple
songs or going for a quick walk,that it just shifts the brain.
(44:13):
Yeah,
Laurie James (44:13):
it does, because you're regulating your nervous
system when you do those things.
So Karen, thank you so much forbeing here. I will make sure
that all your contactinformation is in the show
notes. And thank you all freebirds for being here, and we'll
see you guys next time. Thankyou for listening to this
(44:34):
episode of Confessions of a freebird. I'm grateful to be in your
ears and hearts. If you'reinterested in becoming a free
bird, I'd love to support you.
Please check out my website atLori e james.com to learn how we
can work together, or to sign upfor my newsletter so you can
(44:55):
receive tips on how to date andrelationship differently and
ultimate. Find more freedom andjoy in your life. If you found
this podcast helpful, pleasefollow or subscribe, rate and
review and share it with friendsso they can find more freedom in
their second or third act. Alsountil next time you.
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