September 17, 2024 • 34 mins
Geralyn Kelly is back and this time, we’re talking about working dogs - from the friendly therapy pups that bring joy to nursing home residents, to the highly trained service animals that transform the lives of their owners. Geralyn discusses the intricate differences between these specialized canines and the common misconceptions that often surround them.
As we explore the rigorous training and certification processes required for true service and therapy dogs, you'll be amazed by the dedication and skill these remarkable animals possess. We also shed light on the growing problem of 'fake' service dogs and the heartbreaking consequences this abuse of the system has led to for those who genuinely rely on these working companions. This understanding will help us all appreciate the importance of respecting the roles of these dogs.
You’ll learn to spot the difference between a working dog and a pet masquerading as one. By understanding the rights and responsibilities of these canine heroes, you'll be better equipped to respect their important roles and avoid inadvertently undermining their vital services. Join us as we celebrate the unsung heroes of the dog world and learn how we can all do our part to support them.
About Geralyn:
Geralyn Kelly has been working with dogs since 2002. She began in a daycare/kennel environment where she gained valuable firsthand knowledge about canine behavior. In 2004, after two years at the daycare/kennel Geralyn began her training career and has never looked back! She began training at a large corporate pet store chain where she learned everything from Ethology, the scientific study of animal behavior, to Learning Theory, understanding how dogs learn. The core of Geralyn’s belief is that to be a great dog trainer, you must know everything about them from their origins, background, and recent changes in breeds and how their minds work. To expand her education she has attended seminars, workshops, conferences and have met some of the greats like Ian Dunbar, Sophia Yin, Victoria Stillwell and Suzanne Hetts. After three years in the corporate world, Geralyn left the pet store chain to pursue a career with a private kennel. Here, she developed the entire training program for this kennel from the ground up where she trained Obedience, Agility and Flyball! In 2008 Geralyn relocated to Winston-Salem and spent four more years working for a corporate pet store chain as Store Trainer and Area Trainer where she not only held many classes in store, she trained numerous other trainers who have gone on to have successful training careers. During this assignment she trained dogs in Obedience and Rally.
In December 2012, Geralyn decided she wanted to reach more animals and work more closely with their human handlers and rescue groups, so she opened her own training center, Elite Canine!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Kristen
Kristen Daukas (00:05):
daukas, welcome to Conversations on the rocks,
the podcast where the drink isstrong and the stories are
stronger. I'm your host, Kristendaukas, and this is at your
average chat fest. Here, realpeople spill the tea alongside
their favorite drinks, from thehilarious to the heart
wrenching, each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry,
but you'll definitely learnsomething new. So grab whatever
(00:27):
What's your whistle and buckleup. It's time to dive into the
raw, the real and theridiculously human. Let's get
this chat party started. Heyeverybody, it's Kristen daukas,
and you are listening to thisweek's episode of conversations
on the rocks, the show that'slike your favorite drink, a
little bit of this, a little bitof that, and a whole lot of
(00:49):
unexpected twists. And I've gotmy first repeat guest, Jerilyn
Kelly, who was with me in thevery beginning. And we are going
to talk about our favoritesubject. Again, we're gonna talk
about dogs, but this time, weare going to really niche it
down, and we're gonna talk aboutworking dogs. Although my dogs
don't work, they just work atlaying around. But it kind of
(01:13):
stemmed when we were talkingabout the misuse or abuse of
people with emotional supportdogs. And so we're dedicating
the next 30 minutes to yourexpertise on working dogs, what
they are, what they really are,when they're not. And I'm gonna
turn this over to you, okay,
Geralyn (01:35):
so I thought we'd start at the bottom, which is the
easiest dog to talk about, andthat's the therapy dog. So I
always get phone calls frompeople that say they want to get
a therapy dog for theirchildren. And I'm, you know,
it's it's a year you don't needa therapy dog for your children.
So a therapy dog is someone'spet. They volunteer their time
(01:57):
with their pet, with theirhandler, whether you know
whoever it is, and they visitnursing homes, hospitals and
things like that. They needtraining for that. So a lot of
people, I have heard people,especially in the area, there's
nursing homes that if you haveyour Canine Good Citizen
(02:17):
certificate, which is a AKCsanction test, if you're able to
pass that, you can come to theirnursing home with just your
vaccination records.
Kristen Daukas (02:27):
And what kind of test is that? What is? What does
it take to become
Geralyn (02:31):
a Canine Good Citizen?
Yeah, is 10 tasks, like my handslook so big, 10 tasks, and if
they've had training, it shouldbe a no brainer for them. So the
it's different now because ofcovid, but the there's 10 tasks
they have to pass. All 10greeting a friendly stranger.
Somebody walks up that theydon't know and shakes their
(02:51):
handler's hand. May I pet yourdog, getting pet, and then
grooming an appearance. So theyhave to be clean. Their nails
have to be cut. Their ears haveto be clean. They can't be
matted, you know, basicallystraight from the groomer. And
then you have your simples, sitdown, stay come walking on a
leash, walking through a crowd,greeting another dog, reaction
(03:13):
to a distraction. And then thelast one is the toughest one for
them. They have to stay with astranger for three minutes
without their owners in the roomor within hearing distance.
Okay? So that's the toughest forthem, especially if they're like
Velcro dogs. You know, they getvery stressed out and very
nervous. So if they can passthat test, they're generally
well behaved. You know, thatowner has taken the time out and
(03:37):
done the work.
Kristen Daukas (03:40):
And you offer that in elite canine, you have a
class for that. That's what Ithought I do.
Geralyn (03:44):
Yeah, yeah. There's you have to be an evaluator through
the AKC I think I became anevaluator in 2006 you have to
have two years where you didthat, and you have to have two
years of experience, oftraining. And so if you walk
into a nursing home with justyour canine, good citizen.
You're not insured, so somethingwere to happen, they're not
(04:04):
going to come after you. Sothat's why you go with an
organization. That's why you,you know, sign up with and
there's tons of them. There'stherapy dog International. You
have Pet Partners, there's loveon a leash pet Alliance. There's
a whole ton of them. There's awhole handful of them. And then,
of course, I have my own team,and so they're insured through
(04:26):
my business. So anytime they dosomething for elite canine,
they're insured, but they haveto be trained. You can't have a
dog that's out of control in anursing home, because they're
going to knock somebody down.
They can't be a Barker. Theycan't be dragging their owner
down the hallway. So there's alot of training that goes into
it. And you know, you have yourmembership fees. I don't charge
a membership fee because I haveinsurance anyway for my
(04:47):
business, so it doesn't reallymatter to me. And these guys are
volunteering their time, so Idon't really care about them
paying me. They just have tohave a T shirt, just so that
they're represented. And theyhave, you know, when they go out
and you. So every facility, forthe most part, wants their shot
records on file. Sometimes theyask me for an insurance, you
know, a copy of my insurance,which is fine. And, you know,
(05:09):
they they can do basically anykind of volunteer work. So art,
can you see him? Yeah, our teamdoes a lot of stuff outside of
the not the norm, but we do alot of events. We work very
closely with the sheriff'sdepartment. You know, we do
that. Every time I lose astudent to some disease, I join
in that. So we do the ALS walk.
(05:33):
We've done some cancer walks,and then, of course, the suicide
prevention walk, because lordknows how many friends I've lost
to that. So, you know, they do alot of stuff outside of the
nursing homes, you know, RonaldMcDonald House hospice, which is
a really tough visit, and thenSCC, you family house. So they
do a lot of stuff. These guys,they're an amazing group of
(05:55):
people. I couldn't ask for abetter group of people. They're
so dedicated. So therapy dogsrequire testing, and they really
do require being registered witha therapy organization so that
they're insured. So that's atherapy dog. As far as rights
go, none. This is your pet thatyou're taking out to do a visit
(06:15):
with somebody that's it. Abovethat is your ESA, or your
emotional support animal. Now,according to the ADA laws, an
emotional support animal can bea dog, a cat or a miniature
horse. So unfortunately, whenesas were first introduced,
(06:36):
there was no like written whatit could be. So you had people
bringing snakes, squirrels,monkeys, someone brought a
rooster on a plane. So they werereally taking it to the extreme,
because there was nothing in theADA laws that said it's strictly
these things, right, or thesetypes of animals. So they really
(06:57):
ruined it for everybody in plainEnglish. So when you have an
emotional support animal, youfall under two ADA laws. Number
one, you can live somewherewhere there's no pets allowed,
as long as you have a note for amental health care provider,
like a prescription, okay, butthat doesn't count for
everybody, like, an Airbnbdoesn't have to let you stay
(07:18):
there. A privately rented homedoesn't have to let you stay
there, like there's these littletweaks in the law that you
really have to read about. Andthen they used to be able to
fly, but they don't let them flyanymore, because those people
have destroyed it, or the dogsaren't trained because they
don't have to be trained. An ESAis your pet that helps you.
(07:38):
That's right. So there's notraining required. There's no
registration required. So whenyou see on social media all of
those posts that go up and downall day, $165 and we'll send you
your ID card, your certificate,you know there's no such thing
as that. We'll register you withNorth Carolina, or we'll
register you with the country.
There is no registrationrequired whatsoever for an
(08:02):
emotional support animal. None.
They are your pet that help youwith anxiety, depression, panic
attacks, things like that.
Kristen Daukas (08:12):
So when did they be in because this, we've talked
about this, it might have beeneither in a conversation or the
last time, when did that go intoeffect, that they couldn't,
because you told me that thelast time we talked about the,
you know, esas can't flyanymore, because everybody
abused the system. I was just ona flight, and there was a dog,
but I don't know if he was ESAhe could have been. How big was
(08:36):
he? Uh, he was, he was going tobe big because he would he
looked like he was like a sixmonth lab puppy, and this was
just a couple of weeks ago
Geralyn (08:46):
that could have been a puppy nanny. So the breeders
have puppy nannies. So if thedogs are big enough to go under
the seat, they can fly even anolder dog, like a Yorkie or a
little tiddle tidy poodle, theycan fly with you in the cabin if
their crate fits under the seat.
But the puppy nannies come fromall over the country and deliver
the puppies from these breeders.
(09:08):
Wait, so this is an actual job.
Wait,
Kristen Daukas (09:11):
I Yeah. Wait, how do I
Geralyn (09:14):
Yeah, yeah. So puppy nannies are a big thing now, and
puppy nanny, yeah. So that couldhave been a puppy nanny, or that
could be somebody who flew outto get their puppy and was
flying home, but as long asthey're small enough, they can
be in the cabin with you, okay,but the ESA went into effect, I
(09:34):
want to say pre covid, becauseof the man who brought the snake
on the plane. I believe that wasthe last resort. This is not a
federal law. This is the FAA.
Okay, this is, they have theirown set of rules the FAA. So
they said, No more. Then therewas a guy who was renting an
apartment, and they said, We'resorry, you can't have a pretzel
squirrel. And he said, Oh, no,no. He's my ESA.
Kristen Daukas (09:58):
He had a pet. I remember. The rooster, yeah, and
the rooster.
Geralyn (10:02):
So there's a lot of you know, people take advantage,
unfortunately, and then it ruinsit for the people who actually
really need an ESA on a flight,yeah? So that's an ESA again, no
training is required whatsoever,no registration is required at
all, nothing. They don't have towear anything. They don't need
an ID card. They're basicallyfor you at home. Okay, that's
(10:24):
it. So I use Colt as an ESAbecause I have a panic. I have
panic attacks. Now all four ofthem will come up on the bed
with me. So I have like four,but I can't take him anywhere.
He can't go into a restaurant,he can't go into the mall, he
can't he can't go anywhereunless I read from someone, and
I have a letter from a mentalhealth care provider. That's it.
Kristen Daukas (10:47):
So esas are not supposed to be able to go into
Gresham anyplace, correct? Andthey are friendly,
Geralyn (10:55):
Oh, yeah. And they do so, I mean, and that stems from
the top of the tier, the servicedog. So service dogs are, by
definition, is a dog thatprovides a service. You're
blind, they help you walk, theyhelp you find things. You're
(11:15):
deaf, that's an alert servicedog. So I trained Romeo, oh, my
God, so many years ago. It hasto be at least, at least 20
years ago, maybe 19. And Romeowas this little, tiny chihuahua
mix, and his mom was deaf, andso she wanted to live on her
own. She was living with hermom, and she said, I want to
live on my own, but my mother'safraid. So. We had this line of
(11:40):
touch lamps, and they all had adifferent color bulb in them.
And when we made a sound likelike the beep, beep, beep of the
smoke detector, Romeo knew tohit the red light and the red
light would come on so she couldsee the light as opposed to
hearing it. But because shespoke so differently than I did.
(12:01):
So I say sit where she said shedid all the training. Oh, wow. I
never asked that dog to sit orlay down or touch or anything,
because my verbiage wasdifferent than hers, sure. So
she did every single thing. AndRomeo was a perfect dog. I mean,
he was a great, service dog sodeaf, blind, diabetic, now
(12:25):
diabetic, there's another issue,another problem. There is a
trainer in Virginia. There's onein Charlotte, both with mound of
lawsuits on them. Diabeticdetection is a very specialized
service dog training. Whenyou're diabetic, your body,
mostly through your mouth,releases a smell that the dogs
(12:48):
can smell. They say it smellslike fruit loops. So the way a
diabetic detection dog istrained, they're trained by
somebody, for the most part, whois diabetic. Okay? And they
themselves allow their sugarnumbers to go up and down in a
controlled way so that the dogknows what to look for. So those
(13:10):
two kennels released dogs thatwere not trained, and someone
almost died from a diabetic comabecause the dog didn't alert.
The one in Charlotte soldsomeone here local $35,000 her
dog, her son, was autistic, andso they wanted to train him to
boundary him in the yard, so ifhe tried to get out of the yard,
(13:32):
the dog would block him, so theycouldn't go out of the yard.
Well, he was in the yard withthe dog on a leash. He went up
the back steps and fell downinto a seizure, and he let go of
the leash, and the dog ran away.
Oh, so when you have your youknow they're not detecting a
seizure, they're detecting thedifferent vibes coming from your
body, or heart rate, things likethat. These are specialized
(13:53):
trainers. So when I see localtrainers that are like, Oh, I do
diabetic training. I'm like, Areyou sure you do diabetic
training? You know, I'm notsaying that they don't. Maybe
they do, but it's such aspecialized training that you're
dealing with someone's life,right? So people call me all the
time, and I'm like, I don't dothat. I don't do any kind of
life saving service dogtraining. So, deaf, blind,
(14:15):
diabetic seizure. And then youdo have your, of course, your
PTSD dogs. And these dogs areamazing. I mean, they're
amazing. Usually a soldier willhave them. And I saw one in
Walmart one time. The was aGerman Shepherd, and he was
online. The guy was online, andthe dog did a constant rotation
(14:35):
around him so nobody could getclose. And every time the guy
moved up, the dog shiftedforward. Wow. You created this
barrier. You know, sometimesyou're online and people are
like, yeah, and you're like, Ican smell your breath. Can you
back up? So this dog eliminatesthat, wow. And just a constant
circling while the guy wasonline. It was amazing for me to
watch it. And of course, youknow, you have your dogs that
(14:57):
will get your medication. Arethings that drop on the ground
so someone who's paralyzed canuse a service dog, so they have
to physically do something fortheir human. And that's where
people don't understand and theywant a dog. They want their dog
to go everywhere with them. IfI'm eating at a restaurant, I
don't want to know what Colt isdoing. I'm relaxing with my
(15:21):
friends and I'm eating. I don'twant to be worried about him
whining or getting up or, youknow, trying to go over to say
hello to somebody. He doesn'tneed to be in the grocery store
with me. He doesn't need to be,you know, every I don't want to
take him everywhere with me. Hedoesn't need to go to certain
places. So service dogs, fakeservice dogs. I can usually
(15:43):
point them out. You have thelittle chihuahua in the basket
in the grocery store with thelady on the electric wheelchair
that most likely is not aservice dog, right? What is that
little dog doing? Right? I mean,like, what is that little dog
doing right? So when you look atthe American Disabilities Act,
unfortunately, it needs to berewritten. Pretty much needs to
(16:05):
be rewritten. A service dog doesnot have to have a vest on, so
they don't have to have anyidentification on them, nothing.
There's no service dogregistration. So again, when you
see those NC service dogregister. Or you see a trainer
that says, we'll help youregister your dog. There's no
such thing anybody can say theirdog is a service dog. So when
(16:28):
people walk into the grocerystore, no one's going to
question them because they'reafraid they're going to get
sued, right? So you can ask aservice dog owner two questions,
or handler, is that a servicedog? And if yes, what kind of
service does it provide? Not?
What kind of ailment Do youhave? Just, what does the dog do
(16:50):
for you? Right? You can askthose two questions. Other than
that, you can't ask themanything else. And if they say
yes, it's a service dog and giveyou some kind of ailment, who
are you to say that that's notthe case, because someone who
has diabetes may not look likethey have diabetes, right? Or
seizure disorder. You can't tellthat someone who's deaf unless
(17:12):
you're actually talking to them,you know, with sign language, or
they can read your lips. Youdon't know that they're deaf.
And if you say no, you can'tcome in here. And that dog
happens to be a real servicedog, you're done that they will
sue you so fast, and they willalways win. So it is kind of
tough for these businesses,because they're afraid, sure. So
(17:35):
a service dog can go anywheretheir owner goes, except an
operating room, because of thesterile surroundings. So
anywhere they go, they can takethem, plane, boat, taxi, you
know, Uber, anything like that.
They can go with them. Butagain, they don't have to have
any kind of identification.
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Kristen Daukas (18:23):
So when it comes to we'll go back to the PTSD,
you know, because it's Germanshepherd. And, you know, I have
a soft spot for those, butthey're big dogs. Okay, so let's
talk about the airplanes. Dothey? And they're not fitting
underneath the seat, especiallythe way, the way airplanes are
built. Now, do they? Do youhave, did they have to buy a
seat for the dog. I mean,
Geralyn (18:42):
the dog lays on the floor underneath their feet.
Okay, so when you have a servicedog, if they're properly
trained, you should never knowthey're there absolutely. So I
was at Milner's, this was fewyears ago, and there was a two
couples sitting next to me, alittle bit older than us, and I
was there with Jenny and Marwan.
And what is that
Kristen Daukas (19:03):
you made some kind of hand gesture to give
thumbs up.
Geralyn (19:08):
Oh, wow, that was weird. Okay, so they were
sitting, I mean, they were like,eating when we sat down, and so
we're just sitting there, andall of a sudden they all get up,
and I see this little dog, and Iwas like, oh, there was a dog
under the table. So I said toJenny, that's a nicely, well
trained service dog. So I said,I'm sorry. I have to go tell
(19:29):
them. So I went out and I caughtthem outside in the front, and I
said, I just want to say howwonderful it was that I had no
idea your dog was under there.
And I said, who I was, you know,and what I do for a living, and
why I wasn't just some weirdorunning up on them. And they
said, Oh yeah, you'd never knowshe was anywhere that we are. So
when they're out, if you see adog with a service dog vest on,
(19:52):
sitting in the chair or in abooth next to the owner, that's
not a service dog, they have tobe honest. Lure. They have to be
walking. They have to be on aleash. They can't be reactive.
They're not allowed to growl atother dogs. They're basically
trained to never really taketheir eyes off of you, protect
(20:12):
you, right? So I was amazed bythis little dog. I mean, just
beautifully behaved to me,that's a service dog. Yeah,
Kristen Daukas (20:26):
yeah. And I really started seeing the abuse
of the system last year when Iwas down in Florida, and we were
at a restaurant, and there was awoman who, unfortunately was in
our group, who had this big oldLabradoodle, and it's always a
Labradoodle, always aLabradoodle that was, there was
a table next to us where so wehad a long table, about eight of
(20:46):
us, and there was a booth behindus with a couple, and all of a
sudden I hear this woman going,ma'am, ma'am, you need to curb
your dog. And you know, thewhole time, you know, this girl
is going, Oh, it's my ESA, it'smy ESA, it's my therapy dog. And
I'm like, No, it's not. I mean,it's just the blatant lie. I
mean, because they're not goingto get up and walk around, even
(21:09):
I know that, and I am no expert,you know, it's the same thing I
told you about the story out inSan Diego last year with, you
know, sitting at the outsidebar, and there was the cutest
little dog sitting right infront of me, but he had his work
shirt on, quote, unquote. Andso, I mean, I wanted to, like,
get up there and, like, wrestlewith him and but I was like,
Nope, he's working. Because ifyou don't know that, you do not
(21:31):
they're not your pets. They'renot to be petted. They're
working. It's like a canine. Andall of a sudden this one other
lady comes up by us, and she'slike, I know he's working. I
know it's a service dog, but canI pet it? And she it? And she's
like, Oh, I just bought that forhim. He's not really a service
dog. I almost lost my mind. Iwas like, Are you effing kidding
me? You are the problem,
Geralyn (21:53):
and it's an ethical thing. Yes, too. I mean, and
when people call me and I say,what does the dog need to do for
you? What is the medicalcondition that you need the dog
to be your service dog for? Ifthey say, I just want to bring
my dog everywhere, my responseis, you should be thanking your
lucky stars that you don't needa service dog, because that
(22:14):
means you have something prettydesperately wrong with you. You
know, whether it's a, you know,diabetes? I mean, that's
diabetes is can be fatal if yougo into a coma, and the person
who really needs the dog now ishaving trouble, because you
think it's okay for you to claimthat your dog is a service dog,
right? Yeah. And then you havethe the videos of the in the
(22:38):
mall with the kids. Do you eversee that it was all the service
dogs in training? Because inNorth Carolina, I don't think it
was here, but in North Carolinaand some other states, you can
use everywhere for training. Soif you're a trainer and you're
training a service dog, and itsays service dog and training on
their vest, you can go intothese stores. You're allowed to
do that, even though they're notfully trained yet, because how
(23:02):
else are you going to train themin the grocery store? Right?
Like that, right? So NorthCarolina does allow you to do
that, and some of the otherstates do. So they were in the
mall, and they were all linedup. There was maybe five or six
of them. This lady walked bywith her kids, and the kids
wanted to pet the dogs, and theowner said, and the handler was
like, no, no, they're serviced.
They're in training. You'regonna die. My kid, what do you
mean? They can't pet them theirdog? She was screaming at these
(23:24):
people because they wouldn't lether daughter pet the dog like I
wish I had been there. I wish Ihad been there, because I would
have definitely opened my mouth.
But yeah, I mean, ah, and youknow, just for your audience. If
a service dog ever approachesyou without a handler, you need
(23:45):
to follow that dog, becausetheir handler is
Kristen Daukas (23:47):
hurt. That is great advice. Say that again.
Geralyn (23:51):
So if you ever come across a service dog without
their handler attached, you needto follow that dog. It will take
you to the handler. They'retrained, um, yeah, they're
trained to do that. So like, ifyou're in the grocery store and
a dog just comes up to you witha service dog vest on, with
their leash dragging their ownersomewhere in the store, you
know? So, yeah, I mean, don'ttouch a service dog. You just
(24:13):
touch a service dog.
Kristen Daukas (24:15):
You wouldn't touch a canine, you know. You
wouldn't right, if you ran intothe sheriff, small people, be
exact, like they're working,right? You know, I always just
look from from afar, and justkind of go like, Boy, I sure
wish I could, but you'reworking, it's just like you're a
good working dog, and they'renot cheap. Talk about the cost
(24:35):
of service dogs. So
Geralyn (24:38):
there are certain not businesses, organizations out
there that you can get a servicedog for free, so you have Canine
Companions for Independence. IfI'm not mistaken, their service
dogs are free, but there's avery long waiting list for them.
But you're talking between 35and $50,000 for a dog, and a lot
of them, you have to go. Towhere they are. So there's a
(25:02):
great documentary on Netflixcalled dogs, and the very first
one takes you through all thesteps of this autistic young man
getting a dog. So he had to goto the facility. They had to,
like, live in the state for alittle while, and they had to
work him in because the dogneeds a connection for that sort
(25:24):
of service work. And if the dogdidn't connect with this child,
they had to start fresh with adifferent dog. Wow, yeah. And
then you have your dogs thatfail, you know? So those, they
usually go up for adoption. Thehandlers usually keep them, the
the trainers. So when you havethese service dogs, especially
canines for companion, caninesfor independence, or Canine
Companions for Independence.
They have puppy handlers for thefirst 18 months of their life.
(25:47):
So you get this little they'reusually Golden, and lab mixes at
like 10 or 12 weeks, and youstart them with their training.
And I've had a couple CCI dogsin my class, and they're just,
oh my god, they're so cute. Butthe very first one I had when I
moved here, because there's aCCI in Charlotte, was this older
gentleman, and he had thislittle puppy, and, oh my god, he
(26:08):
was so cute. But they were doingthe jerk training, like the jerk
this, and they sent me, like, alist of all of the things. So
when he would turn in a heel. Itwasn't left, it was left, left,
right, right. He had to doubleeverything up. Because if he's
walking and somebody says, Hey,where's blah, blah, blah, and
(26:29):
that blind person says, Oh, theyjust left, and that dog turns,
it's going to trip the person tothat person, right? So they had
to double up on everything. So Iwas like, that's not a problem.
We can do that. But everybodyelse in the class was using
positive reinforcement with theclicker. And so he came to me,
he was like, I don't feelcomfortable. It was his first
dog. I don't feel comfortableusing, you know, that choke
(26:52):
chain to jerk him. I said, I'msorry, but that's what CCI wants
you to use. So it's not for meto say that you can't use that.
So he called CCI, and they werelike, well, when they come back
here, the clicker is introduced.
So you could just introduce itnow. But he was so sad that he
had to do this to this littlepuppy that, you know, he
(27:14):
convinced CCI to go againsttheir training so that he could
train him with a positivereinforcement technique. And
then I had someone else. I can'tremember. I just, actually, the
video just went by. The dog washealing in the Mass General
Store. I can't remember hername. I can't remember her name.
But I had a few clients who hadfailed service dogs. You know,
(27:35):
they just don't have what ittakes, which is fine, you know.
I mean, not every dog is builtfor work, right?
Unknown (27:41):
Yeah.
Kristen Daukas (27:42):
So you said labs, is that the most common
service dog?
Geralyn (27:45):
Lab? Golden mixes, yeah, yeah. And they start in at
four weeks. They start theirtraining at four
Kristen Daukas (27:50):
weeks. Wow. They don't even have a chance to be
puppies.
Unknown (27:53):
I know,
Geralyn (27:54):
I know. And you know, it's, it's, I have seen people
with service dogs that aren'tnice to their service dogs,
which is very sad to me. Theybasically treat them like just a
worker, like an employee, butfor the most part, like if you
go to Tucker's, you'll seeservice dogs running around
because their owners want themto be dogs, too. And when they
(28:14):
take the vest off, they knowthey're not working
Kristen Daukas (28:17):
again, like canines, you know, they have
their uniform. They know, I meanany, any tick tock I've ever
watched, or even, you know, anydemonstrations from fsco, when
that harness comes out, theyknow it's time to get to work,
and it comes off, right? Theyget to be dogs, right?
Geralyn (28:36):
Is it? To me, I get that, and I that's wonderful
thing, but God forbid thatperson has an episode that dog's
not right there. Oh, that's agood that does make me a little
bit nervous, like having them inyour home with the vest off,
because, you know, they're rightthere. But like in a yard, like
a dog park and stuff, I mean,that dog could be all the way
(28:56):
across the dog park, and you gointo a throes of a seizure, you
could have been warned to laydown if you were standing up or
so some of it, I'm not a big fanof definitely at home, though,
definitely at home, you know,because you're right there with
them. So if you were to have aproblem, they're gonna sense it,
because they're so close to you.
But yeah, don't touch servicedogs, folks. Plain and simple,
the person's not being mean, andthey're not being mean to the
(29:19):
dog. They're just not supposedto be touched. And if you're
walking by a service dog withyour own dog, make some room so
that your dog doesn't go over tothat dog. They don't need to be
distracted away from theirowners, right? Yeah, and like, I
mean, obviously, if it was cold,he'd be like, you know, to the
service dog, so they don't needthat either. He's
Kristen Daukas (29:41):
like, dude, I'm just just trying to do my job.
Why are you gonna be right?
Geralyn (29:45):
I don't see you. I don't see you, right?
Kristen Daukas (29:50):
All right. Well, that's cool. Wow. I learned a
lot. I always learn a lot when Italk to you. Anything, anything
in closing, you want to shareabout? How can we. Stop these
posers. Man.
Geralyn (30:02):
I mean, unless the federal government goes in and
makes the laws stricter, there'snot really anything we can do
about it. But if you needinformation about how to get a
service dog or what the thingsare needed, or, you know, you
need to have some questionsabout the ADA laws, feel free to
call me. I mean, I'm very wellversed in them, and they haven't
changed in many, many years so.
But yeah, see a service dog.
(30:23):
Stay away from them. If you havean ESA, you can't take them
everywhere. And people
Kristen Daukas (30:29):
stop taking your dogs everywhere. Anyhow, I love
my dogs. Geralyn loves her dogs.
We don't. It's kind of like whenwith when with kids. I didn't
want to take my kids everywhereall the time. Let me go out and
have a good time. Let me belike, and now it's like, I'm the
same way. It's like, I wouldn'tdream of and it bothers me. It
really does bother me, and I'm adog lover. It really bugs the
crap out of me. It's like,right?
Unknown (30:51):
Well, I mean, what bothers
Geralyn (30:53):
me is like, if I'm in a brewery and I see someone's dog
walking around without a leashon, this is not your home. Put
your dog on a leash. There's aleash law the dogs. It says
right on the front door, yourdogs have to be leashed if your
dog is being a jerk, take themhome and don't bring them there
again. Like I don't bring Coltto the breweries, because I know
(31:14):
that he's not great on a leashand he's going to be growly. So
I don't take him when I go tothe breweries. I know. I wish I
could, but I don't you know, ifyour dog is incessantly barking,
take him home. I don't want tolisten to that, right? You know,
so and if they're under thetable and they don't like to be
touched because they're shy,that's great. That's fine. I
(31:35):
mean, not whatever you know, ifI don't even hear them or know
that they're there, whatever,but I don't want your dog coming
up to me off leash. I will petit, but I'll be annoyed, and I
will say, you really need to putyour dog on a leash, you know,
because it's dangerous. It is,yeah, so, like, if I had walked
in like Joy mongers, there wasthese, this guy, he had two
dogs, and won't say what kind ofdogs are, because I don't want
(31:56):
to call anybody out, but, andthey were both off leash. If I
had walked in the door with Coltand they had come over Colt's on
a leash, but he's the threat. Soeven though you know your dogs
are friendly and you think thatit's not a big deal because
maybe somebody else's dog is ona leash, they approach Colt,
we're gonna have an altercation.
So it's a it's a safety measurefor both your dog and the other
(32:20):
dog
Kristen Daukas (32:22):
well, and that whole we've talked about that
too. It's kind of off topic, butat the same it's like people,
like, will let their dogs runover and like, when Mackenzie's
dog was here, Luna, Luna wasvery protective of Josie. And
they're like, Oh, don't worry.
They're friendly. I'm like,Yeah, but she's an
Geralyn (32:36):
asshole, right? Right?
Okay, but mine's not exactly
Kristen Daukas (32:41):
right. And so I don't want to have to deal with,
you know, because she was apart, you know, she was part
Pitbull, and so strong. I'mlike, now you're ruining it for
me, because now I'm gonna haveto pull this dog off and to keep
her from, you know, charging atyour friendly little dog,
Unknown (32:57):
right? And then we're gonna be, oh, look at the
vicious pit bull. Oh, my God,it's always a pit bull, right?
Kristen Daukas (33:03):
And when all it was was Luna just being
protective of Josie, right?
Right? Because, you know, Josiecan't defend herself, being
bigger than all those dogs,right,
Unknown (33:11):
right? Like whatever, Jolynn, it's
Kristen Daukas (33:15):
always so much fun. We'll have to think of
another topic and do this again,because it's always fun, even
when we have some major discoechoing going on in the
beginning. Next time, we'll havethe
Unknown (33:25):
green box. So you gotta do the cabbage patch for a
little bit. Yeah, absolutely.
All right, everybody until
Kristen Daukas (33:30):
next time, may your cups be full, your mind be
open and your heart full ofkindness, because we're all
battling something Till nexttime, as the saying goes, you
don't have to go home, but youcan stay here. And that's a wrap
for this week's episode. A bigthanks to my guests for sharing
their story and to you forlistening. Don't forget to share
the show with your friends andspread the words. And if you'd
(33:52):
like to be a guest on the show,the link is in the show notes
till next time. Cheers. You
Kristen
Kristen Daukas (00:05):
daukas, welcome to Conversations on the rocks,
the podcast where the drink isstrong and the stories are
stronger. I'm your host, Kristendaukas, and this is at your
average chat fest. Here, realpeople spill the tea alongside
their favorite drinks, from thehilarious to the heart
wrenching, each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry,
but you'll definitely learnsomething new. So grab whatever
(00:27):
What's your whistle and buckleup. It's time to dive into the
raw, the real and theridiculously human. Let's get
this chat party started. Heyeverybody, it's Kristen daukas,
and you are listening to thisweek's episode of conversations
on the rocks, the show that'slike your favorite drink, a
little bit of this, a little bitof that, and a whole lot of
(00:49):
unexpected twists. And I've gotmy first repeat guest, Jerilyn
Kelly, who was with me in thevery beginning. And we are going
to talk about our favoritesubject. Again, we're gonna talk
about dogs, but this time, weare going to really niche it
down, and we're gonna talk aboutworking dogs. Although my dogs
don't work, they just work atlaying around. But it kind of
(01:13):
stemmed when we were talkingabout the misuse or abuse of
people with emotional supportdogs. And so we're dedicating
the next 30 minutes to yourexpertise on working dogs, what
they are, what they really are,when they're not. And I'm gonna
turn this over to you, okay,
Geralyn (01:35):
so I thought we'd start at the bottom, which is the
easiest dog to talk about, andthat's the therapy dog. So I
always get phone calls frompeople that say they want to get
a therapy dog for theirchildren. And I'm, you know,
it's it's a year you don't needa therapy dog for your children.
So a therapy dog is someone'spet. They volunteer their time
(01:57):
with their pet, with theirhandler, whether you know
whoever it is, and they visitnursing homes, hospitals and
things like that. They needtraining for that. So a lot of
people, I have heard people,especially in the area, there's
nursing homes that if you haveyour Canine Good Citizen
(02:17):
certificate, which is a AKCsanction test, if you're able to
pass that, you can come to theirnursing home with just your
vaccination records.
Kristen Daukas (02:27):
And what kind of test is that? What is? What does
it take to become
Geralyn (02:31):
a Canine Good Citizen?
Yeah, is 10 tasks, like my handslook so big, 10 tasks, and if
they've had training, it shouldbe a no brainer for them. So the
it's different now because ofcovid, but the there's 10 tasks
they have to pass. All 10greeting a friendly stranger.
Somebody walks up that theydon't know and shakes their
(02:51):
handler's hand. May I pet yourdog, getting pet, and then
grooming an appearance. So theyhave to be clean. Their nails
have to be cut. Their ears haveto be clean. They can't be
matted, you know, basicallystraight from the groomer. And
then you have your simples, sitdown, stay come walking on a
leash, walking through a crowd,greeting another dog, reaction
(03:13):
to a distraction. And then thelast one is the toughest one for
them. They have to stay with astranger for three minutes
without their owners in the roomor within hearing distance.
Okay? So that's the toughest forthem, especially if they're like
Velcro dogs. You know, they getvery stressed out and very
nervous. So if they can passthat test, they're generally
well behaved. You know, thatowner has taken the time out and
(03:37):
done the work.
Kristen Daukas (03:40):
And you offer that in elite canine, you have a
class for that. That's what Ithought I do.
Geralyn (03:44):
Yeah, yeah. There's you have to be an evaluator through
the AKC I think I became anevaluator in 2006 you have to
have two years where you didthat, and you have to have two
years of experience, oftraining. And so if you walk
into a nursing home with justyour canine, good citizen.
You're not insured, so somethingwere to happen, they're not
(04:04):
going to come after you. Sothat's why you go with an
organization. That's why you,you know, sign up with and
there's tons of them. There'stherapy dog International. You
have Pet Partners, there's loveon a leash pet Alliance. There's
a whole ton of them. There's awhole handful of them. And then,
of course, I have my own team,and so they're insured through
(04:26):
my business. So anytime they dosomething for elite canine,
they're insured, but they haveto be trained. You can't have a
dog that's out of control in anursing home, because they're
going to knock somebody down.
They can't be a Barker. Theycan't be dragging their owner
down the hallway. So there's alot of training that goes into
it. And you know, you have yourmembership fees. I don't charge
a membership fee because I haveinsurance anyway for my
(04:47):
business, so it doesn't reallymatter to me. And these guys are
volunteering their time, so Idon't really care about them
paying me. They just have tohave a T shirt, just so that
they're represented. And theyhave, you know, when they go out
and you. So every facility, forthe most part, wants their shot
records on file. Sometimes theyask me for an insurance, you
know, a copy of my insurance,which is fine. And, you know,
(05:09):
they they can do basically anykind of volunteer work. So art,
can you see him? Yeah, our teamdoes a lot of stuff outside of
the not the norm, but we do alot of events. We work very
closely with the sheriff'sdepartment. You know, we do
that. Every time I lose astudent to some disease, I join
in that. So we do the ALS walk.
(05:33):
We've done some cancer walks,and then, of course, the suicide
prevention walk, because lordknows how many friends I've lost
to that. So, you know, they do alot of stuff outside of the
nursing homes, you know, RonaldMcDonald House hospice, which is
a really tough visit, and thenSCC, you family house. So they
do a lot of stuff. These guys,they're an amazing group of
(05:55):
people. I couldn't ask for abetter group of people. They're
so dedicated. So therapy dogsrequire testing, and they really
do require being registered witha therapy organization so that
they're insured. So that's atherapy dog. As far as rights
go, none. This is your pet thatyou're taking out to do a visit
(06:15):
with somebody that's it. Abovethat is your ESA, or your
emotional support animal. Now,according to the ADA laws, an
emotional support animal can bea dog, a cat or a miniature
horse. So unfortunately, whenesas were first introduced,
(06:36):
there was no like written whatit could be. So you had people
bringing snakes, squirrels,monkeys, someone brought a
rooster on a plane. So they werereally taking it to the extreme,
because there was nothing in theADA laws that said it's strictly
these things, right, or thesetypes of animals. So they really
(06:57):
ruined it for everybody in plainEnglish. So when you have an
emotional support animal, youfall under two ADA laws. Number
one, you can live somewherewhere there's no pets allowed,
as long as you have a note for amental health care provider,
like a prescription, okay, butthat doesn't count for
everybody, like, an Airbnbdoesn't have to let you stay
(07:18):
there. A privately rented homedoesn't have to let you stay
there, like there's these littletweaks in the law that you
really have to read about. Andthen they used to be able to
fly, but they don't let them flyanymore, because those people
have destroyed it, or the dogsaren't trained because they
don't have to be trained. An ESAis your pet that helps you.
(07:38):
That's right. So there's notraining required. There's no
registration required. So whenyou see on social media all of
those posts that go up and downall day, $165 and we'll send you
your ID card, your certificate,you know there's no such thing
as that. We'll register you withNorth Carolina, or we'll
register you with the country.
There is no registrationrequired whatsoever for an
(08:02):
emotional support animal. None.
They are your pet that help youwith anxiety, depression, panic
attacks, things like that.
Kristen Daukas (08:12):
So when did they be in because this, we've talked
about this, it might have beeneither in a conversation or the
last time, when did that go intoeffect, that they couldn't,
because you told me that thelast time we talked about the,
you know, esas can't flyanymore, because everybody
abused the system. I was just ona flight, and there was a dog,
but I don't know if he was ESAhe could have been. How big was
(08:36):
he? Uh, he was, he was going tobe big because he would he
looked like he was like a sixmonth lab puppy, and this was
just a couple of weeks ago
Geralyn (08:46):
that could have been a puppy nanny. So the breeders
have puppy nannies. So if thedogs are big enough to go under
the seat, they can fly even anolder dog, like a Yorkie or a
little tiddle tidy poodle, theycan fly with you in the cabin if
their crate fits under the seat.
But the puppy nannies come fromall over the country and deliver
the puppies from these breeders.
(09:08):
Wait, so this is an actual job.
Wait,
Kristen Daukas (09:11):
I Yeah. Wait, how do I
Geralyn (09:14):
Yeah, yeah. So puppy nannies are a big thing now, and
puppy nanny, yeah. So that couldhave been a puppy nanny, or that
could be somebody who flew outto get their puppy and was
flying home, but as long asthey're small enough, they can
be in the cabin with you, okay,but the ESA went into effect, I
(09:34):
want to say pre covid, becauseof the man who brought the snake
on the plane. I believe that wasthe last resort. This is not a
federal law. This is the FAA.
Okay, this is, they have theirown set of rules the FAA. So
they said, No more. Then therewas a guy who was renting an
apartment, and they said, We'resorry, you can't have a pretzel
squirrel. And he said, Oh, no,no. He's my ESA.
Kristen Daukas (09:58):
He had a pet. I remember. The rooster, yeah, and
the rooster.
Geralyn (10:02):
So there's a lot of you know, people take advantage,
unfortunately, and then it ruinsit for the people who actually
really need an ESA on a flight,yeah? So that's an ESA again, no
training is required whatsoever,no registration is required at
all, nothing. They don't have towear anything. They don't need
an ID card. They're basicallyfor you at home. Okay, that's
(10:24):
it. So I use Colt as an ESAbecause I have a panic. I have
panic attacks. Now all four ofthem will come up on the bed
with me. So I have like four,but I can't take him anywhere.
He can't go into a restaurant,he can't go into the mall, he
can't he can't go anywhereunless I read from someone, and
I have a letter from a mentalhealth care provider. That's it.
Kristen Daukas (10:47):
So esas are not supposed to be able to go into
Gresham anyplace, correct? Andthey are friendly,
Geralyn (10:55):
Oh, yeah. And they do so, I mean, and that stems from
the top of the tier, the servicedog. So service dogs are, by
definition, is a dog thatprovides a service. You're
blind, they help you walk, theyhelp you find things. You're
(11:15):
deaf, that's an alert servicedog. So I trained Romeo, oh, my
God, so many years ago. It hasto be at least, at least 20
years ago, maybe 19. And Romeowas this little, tiny chihuahua
mix, and his mom was deaf, andso she wanted to live on her
own. She was living with hermom, and she said, I want to
live on my own, but my mother'safraid. So. We had this line of
(11:40):
touch lamps, and they all had adifferent color bulb in them.
And when we made a sound likelike the beep, beep, beep of the
smoke detector, Romeo knew tohit the red light and the red
light would come on so she couldsee the light as opposed to
hearing it. But because shespoke so differently than I did.
(12:01):
So I say sit where she said shedid all the training. Oh, wow. I
never asked that dog to sit orlay down or touch or anything,
because my verbiage wasdifferent than hers, sure. So
she did every single thing. AndRomeo was a perfect dog. I mean,
he was a great, service dog sodeaf, blind, diabetic, now
(12:25):
diabetic, there's another issue,another problem. There is a
trainer in Virginia. There's onein Charlotte, both with mound of
lawsuits on them. Diabeticdetection is a very specialized
service dog training. Whenyou're diabetic, your body,
mostly through your mouth,releases a smell that the dogs
(12:48):
can smell. They say it smellslike fruit loops. So the way a
diabetic detection dog istrained, they're trained by
somebody, for the most part, whois diabetic. Okay? And they
themselves allow their sugarnumbers to go up and down in a
controlled way so that the dogknows what to look for. So those
(13:10):
two kennels released dogs thatwere not trained, and someone
almost died from a diabetic comabecause the dog didn't alert.
The one in Charlotte soldsomeone here local $35,000 her
dog, her son, was autistic, andso they wanted to train him to
boundary him in the yard, so ifhe tried to get out of the yard,
(13:32):
the dog would block him, so theycouldn't go out of the yard.
Well, he was in the yard withthe dog on a leash. He went up
the back steps and fell downinto a seizure, and he let go of
the leash, and the dog ran away.
Oh, so when you have your youknow they're not detecting a
seizure, they're detecting thedifferent vibes coming from your
body, or heart rate, things likethat. These are specialized
(13:53):
trainers. So when I see localtrainers that are like, Oh, I do
diabetic training. I'm like, Areyou sure you do diabetic
training? You know, I'm notsaying that they don't. Maybe
they do, but it's such aspecialized training that you're
dealing with someone's life,right? So people call me all the
time, and I'm like, I don't dothat. I don't do any kind of
life saving service dogtraining. So, deaf, blind,
(14:15):
diabetic seizure. And then youdo have your, of course, your
PTSD dogs. And these dogs areamazing. I mean, they're
amazing. Usually a soldier willhave them. And I saw one in
Walmart one time. The was aGerman Shepherd, and he was
online. The guy was online, andthe dog did a constant rotation
(14:35):
around him so nobody could getclose. And every time the guy
moved up, the dog shiftedforward. Wow. You created this
barrier. You know, sometimesyou're online and people are
like, yeah, and you're like, Ican smell your breath. Can you
back up? So this dog eliminatesthat, wow. And just a constant
circling while the guy wasonline. It was amazing for me to
watch it. And of course, youknow, you have your dogs that
(14:57):
will get your medication. Arethings that drop on the ground
so someone who's paralyzed canuse a service dog, so they have
to physically do something fortheir human. And that's where
people don't understand and theywant a dog. They want their dog
to go everywhere with them. IfI'm eating at a restaurant, I
don't want to know what Colt isdoing. I'm relaxing with my
(15:21):
friends and I'm eating. I don'twant to be worried about him
whining or getting up or, youknow, trying to go over to say
hello to somebody. He doesn'tneed to be in the grocery store
with me. He doesn't need to be,you know, every I don't want to
take him everywhere with me. Hedoesn't need to go to certain
places. So service dogs, fakeservice dogs. I can usually
(15:43):
point them out. You have thelittle chihuahua in the basket
in the grocery store with thelady on the electric wheelchair
that most likely is not aservice dog, right? What is that
little dog doing? Right? I mean,like, what is that little dog
doing right? So when you look atthe American Disabilities Act,
unfortunately, it needs to berewritten. Pretty much needs to
(16:05):
be rewritten. A service dog doesnot have to have a vest on, so
they don't have to have anyidentification on them, nothing.
There's no service dogregistration. So again, when you
see those NC service dogregister. Or you see a trainer
that says, we'll help youregister your dog. There's no
such thing anybody can say theirdog is a service dog. So when
(16:28):
people walk into the grocerystore, no one's going to
question them because they'reafraid they're going to get
sued, right? So you can ask aservice dog owner two questions,
or handler, is that a servicedog? And if yes, what kind of
service does it provide? Not?
What kind of ailment Do youhave? Just, what does the dog do
(16:50):
for you? Right? You can askthose two questions. Other than
that, you can't ask themanything else. And if they say
yes, it's a service dog and giveyou some kind of ailment, who
are you to say that that's notthe case, because someone who
has diabetes may not look likethey have diabetes, right? Or
seizure disorder. You can't tellthat someone who's deaf unless
(17:12):
you're actually talking to them,you know, with sign language, or
they can read your lips. Youdon't know that they're deaf.
And if you say no, you can'tcome in here. And that dog
happens to be a real servicedog, you're done that they will
sue you so fast, and they willalways win. So it is kind of
tough for these businesses,because they're afraid, sure. So
(17:35):
a service dog can go anywheretheir owner goes, except an
operating room, because of thesterile surroundings. So
anywhere they go, they can takethem, plane, boat, taxi, you
know, Uber, anything like that.
They can go with them. Butagain, they don't have to have
any kind of identification.
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Kristen Daukas (18:23):
So when it comes to we'll go back to the PTSD,
you know, because it's Germanshepherd. And, you know, I have
a soft spot for those, butthey're big dogs. Okay, so let's
talk about the airplanes. Dothey? And they're not fitting
underneath the seat, especiallythe way, the way airplanes are
built. Now, do they? Do youhave, did they have to buy a
seat for the dog. I mean,
Geralyn (18:42):
the dog lays on the floor underneath their feet.
Okay, so when you have a servicedog, if they're properly
trained, you should never knowthey're there absolutely. So I
was at Milner's, this was fewyears ago, and there was a two
couples sitting next to me, alittle bit older than us, and I
was there with Jenny and Marwan.
And what is that
Kristen Daukas (19:03):
you made some kind of hand gesture to give
thumbs up.
Geralyn (19:08):
Oh, wow, that was weird. Okay, so they were
sitting, I mean, they were like,eating when we sat down, and so
we're just sitting there, andall of a sudden they all get up,
and I see this little dog, and Iwas like, oh, there was a dog
under the table. So I said toJenny, that's a nicely, well
trained service dog. So I said,I'm sorry. I have to go tell
(19:29):
them. So I went out and I caughtthem outside in the front, and I
said, I just want to say howwonderful it was that I had no
idea your dog was under there.
And I said, who I was, you know,and what I do for a living, and
why I wasn't just some weirdorunning up on them. And they
said, Oh yeah, you'd never knowshe was anywhere that we are. So
when they're out, if you see adog with a service dog vest on,
(19:52):
sitting in the chair or in abooth next to the owner, that's
not a service dog, they have tobe honest. Lure. They have to be
walking. They have to be on aleash. They can't be reactive.
They're not allowed to growl atother dogs. They're basically
trained to never really taketheir eyes off of you, protect
(20:12):
you, right? So I was amazed bythis little dog. I mean, just
beautifully behaved to me,that's a service dog. Yeah,
Kristen Daukas (20:26):
yeah. And I really started seeing the abuse
of the system last year when Iwas down in Florida, and we were
at a restaurant, and there was awoman who, unfortunately was in
our group, who had this big oldLabradoodle, and it's always a
Labradoodle, always aLabradoodle that was, there was
a table next to us where so wehad a long table, about eight of
(20:46):
us, and there was a booth behindus with a couple, and all of a
sudden I hear this woman going,ma'am, ma'am, you need to curb
your dog. And you know, thewhole time, you know, this girl
is going, Oh, it's my ESA, it'smy ESA, it's my therapy dog. And
I'm like, No, it's not. I mean,it's just the blatant lie. I
mean, because they're not goingto get up and walk around, even
(21:09):
I know that, and I am no expert,you know, it's the same thing I
told you about the story out inSan Diego last year with, you
know, sitting at the outsidebar, and there was the cutest
little dog sitting right infront of me, but he had his work
shirt on, quote, unquote. Andso, I mean, I wanted to, like,
get up there and, like, wrestlewith him and but I was like,
Nope, he's working. Because ifyou don't know that, you do not
(21:31):
they're not your pets. They'renot to be petted. They're
working. It's like a canine. Andall of a sudden this one other
lady comes up by us, and she'slike, I know he's working. I
know it's a service dog, but canI pet it? And she it? And she's
like, Oh, I just bought that forhim. He's not really a service
dog. I almost lost my mind. Iwas like, Are you effing kidding
me? You are the problem,
Geralyn (21:53):
and it's an ethical thing. Yes, too. I mean, and
when people call me and I say,what does the dog need to do for
you? What is the medicalcondition that you need the dog
to be your service dog for? Ifthey say, I just want to bring
my dog everywhere, my responseis, you should be thanking your
lucky stars that you don't needa service dog, because that
(22:14):
means you have something prettydesperately wrong with you. You
know, whether it's a, you know,diabetes? I mean, that's
diabetes is can be fatal if yougo into a coma, and the person
who really needs the dog now ishaving trouble, because you
think it's okay for you to claimthat your dog is a service dog,
right? Yeah. And then you havethe the videos of the in the
(22:38):
mall with the kids. Do you eversee that it was all the service
dogs in training? Because inNorth Carolina, I don't think it
was here, but in North Carolinaand some other states, you can
use everywhere for training. Soif you're a trainer and you're
training a service dog, and itsays service dog and training on
their vest, you can go intothese stores. You're allowed to
do that, even though they're notfully trained yet, because how
(23:02):
else are you going to train themin the grocery store? Right?
Like that, right? So NorthCarolina does allow you to do
that, and some of the otherstates do. So they were in the
mall, and they were all linedup. There was maybe five or six
of them. This lady walked bywith her kids, and the kids
wanted to pet the dogs, and theowner said, and the handler was
like, no, no, they're serviced.
They're in training. You'regonna die. My kid, what do you
mean? They can't pet them theirdog? She was screaming at these
(23:24):
people because they wouldn't lether daughter pet the dog like I
wish I had been there. I wish Ihad been there, because I would
have definitely opened my mouth.
But yeah, I mean, ah, and youknow, just for your audience. If
a service dog ever approachesyou without a handler, you need
(23:45):
to follow that dog, becausetheir handler is
Kristen Daukas (23:47):
hurt. That is great advice. Say that again.
Geralyn (23:51):
So if you ever come across a service dog without
their handler attached, you needto follow that dog. It will take
you to the handler. They'retrained, um, yeah, they're
trained to do that. So like, ifyou're in the grocery store and
a dog just comes up to you witha service dog vest on, with
their leash dragging their ownersomewhere in the store, you
know? So, yeah, I mean, don'ttouch a service dog. You just
(24:13):
touch a service dog.
Kristen Daukas (24:15):
You wouldn't touch a canine, you know. You
wouldn't right, if you ran intothe sheriff, small people, be
exact, like they're working,right? You know, I always just
look from from afar, and justkind of go like, Boy, I sure
wish I could, but you'reworking, it's just like you're a
good working dog, and they'renot cheap. Talk about the cost
(24:35):
of service dogs. So
Geralyn (24:38):
there are certain not businesses, organizations out
there that you can get a servicedog for free, so you have Canine
Companions for Independence. IfI'm not mistaken, their service
dogs are free, but there's avery long waiting list for them.
But you're talking between 35and $50,000 for a dog, and a lot
of them, you have to go. Towhere they are. So there's a
(25:02):
great documentary on Netflixcalled dogs, and the very first
one takes you through all thesteps of this autistic young man
getting a dog. So he had to goto the facility. They had to,
like, live in the state for alittle while, and they had to
work him in because the dogneeds a connection for that sort
(25:24):
of service work. And if the dogdidn't connect with this child,
they had to start fresh with adifferent dog. Wow, yeah. And
then you have your dogs thatfail, you know? So those, they
usually go up for adoption. Thehandlers usually keep them, the
the trainers. So when you havethese service dogs, especially
canines for companion, caninesfor independence, or Canine
Companions for Independence.
They have puppy handlers for thefirst 18 months of their life.
(25:47):
So you get this little they'reusually Golden, and lab mixes at
like 10 or 12 weeks, and youstart them with their training.
And I've had a couple CCI dogsin my class, and they're just,
oh my god, they're so cute. Butthe very first one I had when I
moved here, because there's aCCI in Charlotte, was this older
gentleman, and he had thislittle puppy, and, oh my god, he
(26:08):
was so cute. But they were doingthe jerk training, like the jerk
this, and they sent me, like, alist of all of the things. So
when he would turn in a heel. Itwasn't left, it was left, left,
right, right. He had to doubleeverything up. Because if he's
walking and somebody says, Hey,where's blah, blah, blah, and
(26:29):
that blind person says, Oh, theyjust left, and that dog turns,
it's going to trip the person tothat person, right? So they had
to double up on everything. So Iwas like, that's not a problem.
We can do that. But everybodyelse in the class was using
positive reinforcement with theclicker. And so he came to me,
he was like, I don't feelcomfortable. It was his first
dog. I don't feel comfortableusing, you know, that choke
(26:52):
chain to jerk him. I said, I'msorry, but that's what CCI wants
you to use. So it's not for meto say that you can't use that.
So he called CCI, and they werelike, well, when they come back
here, the clicker is introduced.
So you could just introduce itnow. But he was so sad that he
had to do this to this littlepuppy that, you know, he
(27:14):
convinced CCI to go againsttheir training so that he could
train him with a positivereinforcement technique. And
then I had someone else. I can'tremember. I just, actually, the
video just went by. The dog washealing in the Mass General
Store. I can't remember hername. I can't remember her name.
But I had a few clients who hadfailed service dogs. You know,
(27:35):
they just don't have what ittakes, which is fine, you know.
I mean, not every dog is builtfor work, right?
Unknown (27:41):
Yeah.
Kristen Daukas (27:42):
So you said labs, is that the most common
service dog?
Geralyn (27:45):
Lab? Golden mixes, yeah, yeah. And they start in at
four weeks. They start theirtraining at four
Kristen Daukas (27:50):
weeks. Wow. They don't even have a chance to be
puppies.
Unknown (27:53):
I know,
Geralyn (27:54):
I know. And you know, it's, it's, I have seen people
with service dogs that aren'tnice to their service dogs,
which is very sad to me. Theybasically treat them like just a
worker, like an employee, butfor the most part, like if you
go to Tucker's, you'll seeservice dogs running around
because their owners want themto be dogs, too. And when they
(28:14):
take the vest off, they knowthey're not working
Kristen Daukas (28:17):
again, like canines, you know, they have
their uniform. They know, I meanany, any tick tock I've ever
watched, or even, you know, anydemonstrations from fsco, when
that harness comes out, theyknow it's time to get to work,
and it comes off, right? Theyget to be dogs, right?
Geralyn (28:36):
Is it? To me, I get that, and I that's wonderful
thing, but God forbid thatperson has an episode that dog's
not right there. Oh, that's agood that does make me a little
bit nervous, like having them inyour home with the vest off,
because, you know, they're rightthere. But like in a yard, like
a dog park and stuff, I mean,that dog could be all the way
(28:56):
across the dog park, and you gointo a throes of a seizure, you
could have been warned to laydown if you were standing up or
so some of it, I'm not a big fanof definitely at home, though,
definitely at home, you know,because you're right there with
them. So if you were to have aproblem, they're gonna sense it,
because they're so close to you.
But yeah, don't touch servicedogs, folks. Plain and simple,
the person's not being mean, andthey're not being mean to the
(29:19):
dog. They're just not supposedto be touched. And if you're
walking by a service dog withyour own dog, make some room so
that your dog doesn't go over tothat dog. They don't need to be
distracted away from theirowners, right? Yeah, and like, I
mean, obviously, if it was cold,he'd be like, you know, to the
service dog, so they don't needthat either. He's
Kristen Daukas (29:41):
like, dude, I'm just just trying to do my job.
Why are you gonna be right?
Geralyn (29:45):
I don't see you. I don't see you, right?
Kristen Daukas (29:50):
All right. Well, that's cool. Wow. I learned a
lot. I always learn a lot when Italk to you. Anything, anything
in closing, you want to shareabout? How can we. Stop these
posers. Man.
Geralyn (30:02):
I mean, unless the federal government goes in and
makes the laws stricter, there'snot really anything we can do
about it. But if you needinformation about how to get a
service dog or what the thingsare needed, or, you know, you
need to have some questionsabout the ADA laws, feel free to
call me. I mean, I'm very wellversed in them, and they haven't
changed in many, many years so.
But yeah, see a service dog.
(30:23):
Stay away from them. If you havean ESA, you can't take them
everywhere. And people
Kristen Daukas (30:29):
stop taking your dogs everywhere. Anyhow, I love
my dogs. Geralyn loves her dogs.
We don't. It's kind of like whenwith when with kids. I didn't
want to take my kids everywhereall the time. Let me go out and
have a good time. Let me belike, and now it's like, I'm the
same way. It's like, I wouldn'tdream of and it bothers me. It
really does bother me, and I'm adog lover. It really bugs the
crap out of me. It's like,right?
Unknown (30:51):
Well, I mean, what bothers
Geralyn (30:53):
me is like, if I'm in a brewery and I see someone's dog
walking around without a leashon, this is not your home. Put
your dog on a leash. There's aleash law the dogs. It says
right on the front door, yourdogs have to be leashed if your
dog is being a jerk, take themhome and don't bring them there
again. Like I don't bring Coltto the breweries, because I know
(31:14):
that he's not great on a leashand he's going to be growly. So
I don't take him when I go tothe breweries. I know. I wish I
could, but I don't you know, ifyour dog is incessantly barking,
take him home. I don't want tolisten to that, right? You know,
so and if they're under thetable and they don't like to be
touched because they're shy,that's great. That's fine. I
(31:35):
mean, not whatever you know, ifI don't even hear them or know
that they're there, whatever,but I don't want your dog coming
up to me off leash. I will petit, but I'll be annoyed, and I
will say, you really need to putyour dog on a leash, you know,
because it's dangerous. It is,yeah, so, like, if I had walked
in like Joy mongers, there wasthese, this guy, he had two
dogs, and won't say what kind ofdogs are, because I don't want
(31:56):
to call anybody out, but, andthey were both off leash. If I
had walked in the door with Coltand they had come over Colt's on
a leash, but he's the threat. Soeven though you know your dogs
are friendly and you think thatit's not a big deal because
maybe somebody else's dog is ona leash, they approach Colt,
we're gonna have an altercation.
So it's a it's a safety measurefor both your dog and the other
(32:20):
dog
Kristen Daukas (32:22):
well, and that whole we've talked about that
too. It's kind of off topic, butat the same it's like people,
like, will let their dogs runover and like, when Mackenzie's
dog was here, Luna, Luna wasvery protective of Josie. And
they're like, Oh, don't worry.
They're friendly. I'm like,Yeah, but she's an
Geralyn (32:36):
asshole, right? Right?
Okay, but mine's not exactly
Kristen Daukas (32:41):
right. And so I don't want to have to deal with,
you know, because she was apart, you know, she was part
Pitbull, and so strong. I'mlike, now you're ruining it for
me, because now I'm gonna haveto pull this dog off and to keep
her from, you know, charging atyour friendly little dog,
Unknown (32:57):
right? And then we're gonna be, oh, look at the
vicious pit bull. Oh, my God,it's always a pit bull, right?
Kristen Daukas (33:03):
And when all it was was Luna just being
protective of Josie, right?
Right? Because, you know, Josiecan't defend herself, being
bigger than all those dogs,right,
Unknown (33:11):
right? Like whatever, Jolynn, it's
Kristen Daukas (33:15):
always so much fun. We'll have to think of
another topic and do this again,because it's always fun, even
when we have some major discoechoing going on in the
beginning. Next time, we'll havethe
Unknown (33:25):
green box. So you gotta do the cabbage patch for a
little bit. Yeah, absolutely.
All right, everybody until
Kristen Daukas (33:30):
next time, may your cups be full, your mind be
open and your heart full ofkindness, because we're all
battling something Till nexttime, as the saying goes, you
don't have to go home, but youcan stay here. And that's a wrap
for this week's episode. A bigthanks to my guests for sharing
their story and to you forlistening. Don't forget to share
the show with your friends andspread the words. And if you'd
(33:52):
like to be a guest on the show,the link is in the show notes
till next time. Cheers. You
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