August 8, 2025 • 48 mins
Join Kris and Juan Aguilera in this enlightening conversation about the intersection of addiction recovery, trauma healing, and psychedelic therapy. Juan, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt and former opiate addict, opens up about his journey of healing through powerful substances like Ibogaine and Bufo.
He shares how these psychedelic medicines helped him face childhood trauma, overcome addiction, and find spiritual awakening. With a unique approach to guiding others through Bufo ceremonies, Juan’s mission is to facilitate healing for those in need, particularly veterans and first responders.
Hear about his nonprofit, Amor Fati, and how it's creating transformative retreats across the U.S.
FOLLOW FOR MORE:
@bufostoic
@kristopherpace
www.kristopherpace.com
CBS Morning News Segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paho5HAHACQ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
I am positively Chris Pace and you are actively listening to
conversations with Chris. Today got a great guest, Juan
Aguilera. That's correct pronunciation.
You guys know I struggle with that, but I'm sure he'll correct
me here in a second if I'm wrong.
But Juan's got an incredible story and I'm excited to share
with you guys. He's going to tell us about some
(00:34):
stuff that really I don't know much about and I'd like to know
a lot more about. So that's why we're having this
conversation today. So here we go.
Juan, How are you today, brother?
I'm doing well. I'm doing well.
And yourself. Oh, really well, really well.
Busy, busy, busy, but always trying to do something positive.
Beautiful can. You hear me?
(00:55):
OK, Yeah. Yeah.
Can you hear me? Yep, you're good to go.
So tell us about you. Tell us where you come from,
where you know where. Where did Little wands start
out? Little wands start out, I mean,
yeah, I was born in Glendale, CAin Los Angeles and my both of my
parents are from Chile in South America, so they had property
(01:18):
out there still. So after I was born, they moved
back to Chile and I spent my first seven years of life on
Chile and then they came back and been in California pretty
much ever since. Wow, that's crazy.
I went to Chile for three monthson a sabbatical and was down
there and I I went to Santiago and Vina Del Mar and Valparaiso,
(01:39):
and then I drove all the way down to Chile and I spent two
months sitting on a in Chile. It was amazing.
Beautiful country, beautiful country.
So that's cool that you got to live there.
Yeah, I never went back until about 3 1/2 years ago.
It was the first time I ever went back.
So really, ever since my parentsmoved me back, yeah, to the
(02:00):
States, I never went back until about 3 or 4 years ago.
So when you moved to California,you obviously got in the school
system, graduated, all that kindof stuff.
What happened in your life? I mean, where?
How did you get to where you aretoday?
Yeah. So, yeah, when my parents moved
back, I mean, it's a long story,but, you know, it's the best of
(02:22):
my recollection. You know, there's AI grew up in
a very physically violent household, right?
So there was a lot of trouble happening within the house.
And yeah, just, you know, I remember going to school,
remember learning English, remember the teacher yelling at
me because I was having a hard time learning English.
(02:44):
And yeah, you know, yeah. Just remember, you know, I went
through elementary school, junior high, high school,
everything out here. But yeah, I, I have clear memory
of, you know, things that happened early on in my life.
So trauma at a young age, Yeah. And then obviously the the
(03:05):
complication of having to learn in English as a second language
or as you obviously were taught,the worst Spanish in the world.
From what the Chileans tell me, they say they brag about the
fact they speak the worst Spanish.
Yeah, it's hard to understand. The thing is, I I looked up SIPO
for like, yeah, I was looking. I'm looking for sepo.
Sepo. What's sepo?
They go, oh, no, we just had PO to the end of every word.
(03:27):
I'm like, you're kidding me, right?
I'll familiar. I'll familiar.
What does Wyon mean? Yeah, yeah.
That does wyon mean they're likeit means it means dude, I'm
like, no it doesn't because you didn't use it in that term.
I mean, I think it has a lot of different meanings, but that was
my dad's favorite word. Yes.
He's always calling us whale andwhale something silly.
(03:47):
Whale, you know, the friends call each other whale.
And so I'm still trying to figure out and dissect myself
what it actually means, but. OK, cool.
So you don't know either. No one's ever given me a
straight answer. So you had all this trauma to do
after you graduated. What was the what was the
journey for you? Where'd you go and did you hit
the college route or did you go the military route?
(04:09):
What was your? No, So, yeah, I mean, what was
the, I guess for it to really make sense, right?
Like, you know, I, I had an older brother, I have many
siblings, right? But I, I had an older brother
that was a professional Muay Thai fighter.
So, you know, we were introducedto martial arts at an early age
by myself and my middle brother Gerardo.
And we were introduced to martial arts and I really
(04:31):
gravitated towards it. You know, it was exposed to us
early on. So, you know, I just
recollecting back like I just, Ididn't know that it was this
back then, but now I know what it is.
It was right. It was like this, not like this
heavy anxiety that just followedme around everywhere, right.
And, you know, it was just part of my day-to-day life.
(04:53):
And then, you know, as I got older and I, you know, I started
doing boxing in high school, youknow, I was introduced to jiu
jitsu, MMA, and I had found thisbeautiful outlet to deal with
that anxiety, but it was very short lived.
It was like a temporary relief, right?
So what I mean by that is, you know, I'd go train and have like
feel incredible after. But shortly after that anxiety
(05:15):
would creep back in. And I'd say about 1314 years
old, I was introduced to opiatesdue to a surgery that I had when
I was a kid. So it became, you know, martial
arts, a combination of martial arts.
And then once the anxiety crept in, crept up, it would be
(05:35):
resorting to substances to kind of just suppress this anxiety
that I was dealing with. And I was really truly just
normalizing it, right? I mean, I had no idea that what
I was doing initially, what was wrong?
It started off recreational likehere and there, and then
eventually it it became a full blown addiction.
And the craziest part about it is I was managing, you know,
this life of competing in martial arts.
(05:56):
I did several MMA fights, competed in jiu jitsu, was very
disciplined in training. But my life outside of training
was a nightmare, you know? So, yeah. 13 years old man
opiate opiate. So that's a young age to get
introduced and and surely you have enough excuses to keep
taking it with jiu jitsu becauseyou're always hurting.
(06:18):
Yeah, well, especially when the doctor prescribed it to you.
And, you know, I remember my mom, she was actually with me at
that appointment and she didn't.The doctor, from what what I
recall, he didn't say like, here, hang on to this and
monitor this. I remember having it right there
on my shelf, man. And I'd take one, I feel, you
know, an hour later I was takingthe next one, you know, and I
was just going through them, right?
(06:39):
And I had no idea what I was doing.
I was oblivious to what I was doing.
And I remember when I went back for a check up, I had to ask for
a refill. And the doctor's like, no way,
you know. But at that point it was like,
you already made the introduction, man.
So it was, I think it was beginning to the end from right
there with that. And so that lasted a long time.
(07:00):
Yeah. So how long?
How did you end up breaking thatone?
I mean, you obviously don't seemaddicted to opioids now.
Oh, far from it, man. I mean, you know, I'll say this,
you know, if you want to say that the addiction started right
then and there, like I can't say, But from the time that I
was introduced to opiates to thetime that I was actually able to
(07:21):
fully kick the habit, 17 years, more or less, right?
I mean, teenager, you know, and it just progressively got worse,
right? What started, you know, here and
there, you know, I'd have like acouple that would not just throw
in some theoretical numbers, right?
But I'd have like a handful of them that would last me a week,
two weeks, who knows, near the tail end of my addiction, you
(07:44):
know, I was, you know, anything I can get my hands off my hands
on and that included fentanyl, really anything.
And it would take, you know, I'dgo through 80 pills and a day
and a half, two days. It was, it got into a very,
yeah, it got into a very bad, you know, and I'm not that big
of a guy either. So, you know, it was yeah, I was
(08:07):
just going through them so. Yeah, wow, that's a lot of
pills, man. That's like an incredible
amount. Did you have to go to like
treatment or did you end up finding a solution?
Or did somebody come along and magically hit you with a wand
and said you're no longer addicted to these or what was?
Yeah. So, yeah, I explored every
(08:28):
alternative, that conventional option that I was aware of,
right, that I could discover here stateside of detox, you
know, cold Turkey, you know, I was, I was able to stop like
many times over for like maybe short time, short period of
time. But that depression, anxiety,
which is it was like overwhelming.
So I'd fall right back, right. So I certainly explored other
(08:48):
options. But funny enough, at this point,
you know, I was on the Joe Roganpodcast, he had this guest
feeder or you know, one of the the guests on it was Aubrey
Marcus. And they're talking about
ibogame. And at this point, I had never
done any form of psychedelic in my life, right?
So they're talking about the substance called ibogaine.
And when I discovered ibogaine, it was gaining a lot of
(09:11):
popularity for its effectivenessand dealing with opiate
addiction. So at that moment, I was in pure
desperation. And two to three weeks later, I
was at an ibogaine clinic and wow, I, yeah, 2-3 weeks later,
just went with it, found the first center I could find.
Didn't really do much research outside of what I heard on this
(09:32):
podcast. And I'll tell you this, going
into it so blindly, it did exactly what I wanted it, what I
intended it to do, right? I mean, they say it's like,
through the course of one evening, it could completely
reverse an addiction, right? To substances and even
psychological substances as well, right?
(09:52):
Doesn't even apply only to physical like substance
dependency. And I, I just remember that
following morning, man, I felt horrific.
But quickly thereafter I realized that I wasn't craving
opiates. Wow, that's amazing, man.
So hold on, let me let's we're going to step off topic.
So the only other podcast you'veever done was with Joe Rogan?
(10:15):
No, I no, I didn't do the podcast with Joe Rogan.
I saw the Joe Rogan podcast. Hello, gotcha.
I was like you said, you did onepodcast.
I'm like, wow, that's cool. No, no, no, no, it was.
No. It didn't.
It didn't a lot. Last one.
So it's, it's funny that you saythat you went down to Mexico,
(10:36):
right? And that's where you were
treated. I had a good friend, Matt Wiz
Buckley. This is actually his his coin
that he has, which is so cool because he's a Top Gun pilot in
the Navy. And then he's got the
psychedelic eyes. Isn't that cool?
Shout out to Whiz. Amazing, amazing guy.
(10:56):
One team, one fight. That's his slogan.
So he's just incredible. But yeah, he went down to Mexico
and his he was the first person I heard about Abigain.
And he had an addiction to alcoholism.
And he said after he did ibogaine, he couldn't be near
alcohol. It made him sick and he said
they just, you couldn't even smell it.
And I'm like, wow. And so I looked it up. 85%
(11:18):
effective. One treatment, curing addiction,
which makes sense because psychological addiction is
really, you're addicted to escaping reality.
It's not the choice of the drug or the choice of the substance.
It's the getting out of your ownreality basically, right.
So that's why it's curing. But that's amazing that there's
something out there that can fixpeople just like that.
(11:42):
Yeah, I mean, it requires. So there's more to the story,
right? I what's, what's truly
remarkable about ibogaine is, yeah, its ability to interrupt
an addiction, right? So they call it the addiction
interrupter. And it's so accurate, right.
But beyond that, what it does soexceptionally well is how you're
feeling psychologically after, right?
A lot of addicts when they get off of substances, maybe alcohol
(12:04):
included as well. I've it's like sometimes
they're, they're able to manage to stop the use, but there's
that all that damage that's beendone throughout that period of
addiction, right? That just leaves them so broken
and hopeless. So it's really hard.
I mean, some, there's a very small number of people probably
that are able to push through and get through that phase, but
a lot of people can't. And I was one of them, right?
(12:24):
That depression is so heavy. So I think Ibogaine, what it
does exceptionally well is actually this on top of just
interrupting the addiction. So you just no longer craved
them, you no longer wanted them,you no longer interested?
Or was it immediate? Or did it take some time or?
Immediately after, yeah, I mean,literally the next morning.
(12:46):
It was such a remarkable experience.
Like I alluded to earlier, like I went into it so blindly,
right? What ended up happening with me
is at that time that I did it, Ididn't really have any
preparation or any like, plan after.
I was like, hey, I discovered this alternative to get right.
So I went down did it, man, and I just went right back into the
(13:08):
environments that I was in before, right?
I mean, slogan started drinking a little bit.
It's funny, man. I think I, I thought alcohol
wasn't an issue for me. And, you know, now I know how
big of an issue it was, but yeah, I could get to that.
But yeah, I slowly started drinking.
I had a pretty unique and interesting job opportunity to
come up for me, but I had this like like new found confidence
(13:32):
after having done that experience, right?
Like I felt like a completely different person.
So if I had known how to preserve that, I would have
probably done a lot better that first go around.
But I actually ended up doing ittwice about three months after
my first ibogaine treatment. Again, long story, started
drinking. One particular event took place,
woke up with a hangover. Anxiety was there, went right
(13:55):
back to opiates and then, but for me, that first initial
journey was kind of like that gateway and that opening where I
knew that there was alternativesthat exist that were much, much
more effective than anything else I had tried.
From then, you know, I went to go to ayahuasca out in the
Amazon jungle for two weeks. I was out there for two weeks.
And then shortly after that, or not shortly after that, but a
(14:17):
couple months after that, I decided to do ibogaine again.
And that was about on May 27th of this year.
That would have marked three years from that treatment.
And from then on, it was such a vastly different experience.
The second time I did Ivy game that I just knew.
Like when you just know something with complete clarity
and certainty, that was me. After that second Ivy game
(14:39):
journey, it's like I actually experienced in a very beautiful
way, an intense way of what I was doing to my body.
And I came out of it with like, this deep appreciation for, you
know, myself, some self worth, self worth.
And yeah, I just never looked back after that second one.
Yeah, that's amazing. And it's funny to me because,
(15:00):
you know, you're here and clean and healthy and now making a
difference in the world. And Wiz, when we were talking
about his experience, he got invited by some Special Forces
guys and he just was like, what?Go to Mexico and do drugs with
Special Forces guys? Yeah, it sounds great.
It's wild. So he had no no idea what he was
getting into. Also now he had the experience
(15:22):
of ibogaine I think 1st and thenfive meo the next day which is
DMT correct? And that's five MO DMT the first
time I did I the first time. I'm sorry.
Go ahead. Go ahead.
I was going to say, tell me about that and how is that how
your experience went or was it the same type of setup?
(15:43):
First time I went down to Mexico.
Yes, the first time I did it, itwas Ivy game first, then five
MEO DMT after. So basically this the same kind
of program the first time I wentto it.
The second time I did it, I actually did it with an
underground facilitator in the States and I did not do 5 MEODMT
(16:04):
after that experience, which wasessentially the one that got me
right like that, laid that foundation for me to make some
significant changes in my life. Wow.
OK, so how did so I did I serve you at all when you went to the
Amazon? Did you get anything from that
one? Man, I'm sure I did.
Like for me, when I look back onthat now, I feel like it was a a
(16:24):
very intense detox, right? I mean, I did it 7 times out of
eight. It was a two week experience.
I mean, being in the Amazon jungle alone is an experience in
itself, right? Especially if you're a guy from
California. I remember I got to that.
So you fly to the capital Peru and then you fly to a a town or
a city called Akito's, which is like the hub for ayahuasca
(16:46):
centers and or like the hub where everyone meets to go to
the ayahuasca centers. And I remember I got to the
ketos. Then from there you take like a
two to three hour bus ride to a port and then you're like 3 hour
boat ride into the jungle. So you're like deep, deep, deep
in the Amazon. And hey, I will say, yeah,
(17:07):
perhaps I did gain significant benefit from it.
I'm not quite sure. I think there's these
experiences do so much more thanwe can actually articulate, you
know, But even then I didn't gain that if you want to label
it this revelation or what I wasseeking, because it was shortly
after that again, you know, thataddiction just, you know,
(17:29):
overpowered my desire to stay clean.
And that ended up leading me to probably the tail end worst part
of the addiction because at thispoint, you can imagine me being
in this situation where I've done IB game, you know, I did
ayahuasca and I'm still meeting failure in terms of being able
to gain complete sobriety from opiates.
(17:50):
And then it's a, it's a very interesting story, But I got
connected with this guy and man,he, if it hadn't been for his
compassion and just constant communication with me, I
probably wouldn't have ever doneit again.
And he just caught me at the right time.
And I ended up flying to Boston to an Airbnb and did the second
(18:14):
I began treatment. And, man, forever grateful.
Forever grateful. Just the preparation you've been
leading into it was so vastly different than what I did in the
center that I went to initially.I mean, the center I went to, I
don't even know if it exists anymore.
It was very sketchy. Yeah.
Yeah, I can imagine that in Mexico, right.
(18:35):
So it's got to be a little less than ideal scenario or setting.
Yeah. What it didn't have an all the
awareness that these centers have now, right.
So like now you hear of like centers such as Ambio, that's
where I worked for, you know, I believe in about nine months I
was working at Ambio and it's luxury, right?
(18:55):
I mean there's just not a betteroffering in terms of IBM segment
in the world right now, my opinion, right.
But I truly believe that the place I went to was the opposite
of Ambio. I mean I in so many different
ways, but I mean, hey, it aligned the way it was supposed
to for me. Yeah, Ambio is like the Gucci
(19:16):
and you were at the Walmart of IVA game.
Man, I was probably, I was probably worse than Walmart.
Man, maybe Dollar Tree. No offense, no offense to
Walmart or Dollar Tree, but that's amazing.
So we touched on five MEODMT being a part of your process,
but that didn't seem to be the one that changed your life yet
(19:37):
that's the one that you chose tobecome a healer with.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I, you know, it's interesting, you know, because I like to say
that Ivy gain it laid the necessary foundation for me to
be able to change my life, right, because the wrong
(19:58):
approach when doing these medicines, these, you know,
these forms of healing is to go into expecting that all will be
resolved after, right. And then perhaps I had that form
of approach the first time I didit, which is why, you know, I
ended up where I was after that first, you know, try with Ivy
game. But ultimately, when you're
(20:18):
ready, you're ready, you know, And I think after that second
one, that second Ivy game treatment.
It laid the foundation, but brother, it required so much
work for me after too. You know, like there was a lot
of sacrifice that I had to make.I had to completely disconnect
myself from, you know, certain environments, people that I had
contact with, even the people that were reaching out to me,
you know, that were very much tied to that, you know, world,
(20:42):
if you want to label it that. So it certainly required a lot
of work for me. But yes, I mean in terms of the
substance dependency I had to gain.
Man it made me feel like I nevertouched an opiate in my life.
Wow, wow, so cleansed and so thefive meo that you did the first
time around, did you have any kind of cool experience with
that? Is that why you found it that
(21:03):
way back to it? I mean, what?
What was the draw for you? It's interesting, like after I
was introduced to it, it was like the medicine I would resort
to because there, this time frame that I've given you, there
was like it was many years rightin between and I was doing all
like after I had done Bufo the first time, 5 Emilio DMTI, you
(21:25):
know, I got connected with that facilitator and I would
occasionally go down if he was hosting these retreats, these
gatherings. So like, man, I found immense
benefit with that medicine specifically, right?
But when I reflect back on it, Ithink perhaps in ways maybe I
wasn't deriving the most out of those experiences because I was
always very much still in a, in a heavy cycle of addiction,
(21:48):
right? Which was the case even when I
did ayahuasca, right? So although they were very
profound experiences, like I remember my first time, like
clearly it was so beautiful for whatever reason, you know, my
middle brother and I, we're veryclose.
We've been through a lot, you know, early on just, you know,
(22:10):
and I had no intention of I, I don't even know if I was
thinking of him. But I remember going into that
journey and I felt like I was screaming his name, just saying
I was sorry and that I love you.I love you.
And when I came out of the journey, I just fell into
complete tears. And I was asking, you know, the
people that were there observingand holding space for me.
And they said I was. I didn't say a word.
So it's wild to think about. Yeah.
(22:35):
Wow yeah that's intense. SO5 MEO DMT is the same thing as
Bufo. Yeah.
So if you're in the space, the way to differentiate the two, if
you're unfamiliar, when people refer to bufo, toad, sapol,
these are all terms when they'rereferring to the substance
(22:56):
that's actually derived from thebufo, A various Sonoran Desert
toad, right? So when someone says oh I
facilitated Bufo or I sat with Bufo, chances are they're
referring to the actual toad venom that's derived from the
toad in the space when people say 5 or God.
That's the one that you do in like the arm and it leaves a
(23:17):
scar. That's the frog medicine type
thing. No, that's Cambo.
That's Cambo. It's a completely different form
of medicine. Yeah.
So when people say 5 or five MEODMT stances are, unless
they're unfamiliar, they're referring to the synthetic
version of the molecule of five MEODMT.
So if you work with someone, they say, oh, I facilitated 5 or
(23:40):
five meo or five meo DMT, they're usually talking about
the synthetic version of the medicine.
So that's the. So there's kind of like the key
differences. Bufo, Bufo is actually the the
real medicine or the correct, the main medicine.
Yeah, I mean it's like a Iboga and ibogaine.
(24:01):
Ibogaine is a derivative of Iboga, but Iboga is the mother
plant and so. Absolutely, yeah.
So ibogaine is an extract of theiboga root bark, right?
They extract the kind of like with flour, like cannabis,
right? You have the oil, they extract
all the potent alkaloids or, youknow, whatever into that oil.
So it's very pure. The reason why ibogaine centers
(24:22):
do this is because they need to know exactly how much they're
dosing per participant, right? If you're just taking iboga, I
mean, you're just basically, from my understanding, you just
take it until you're gone. That's very unpredictable.
Well, I just had AI just had a shaman, Iboga shaman on the last
episode. And she says that Iboga is one
of those plants that you don't, you could take a little bit or
(24:45):
you could take a lot. And usually it's going to figure
out, it's going to put you whereyou need to be.
Yeah. It chooses for you, but.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. It doses you no matter what, as
long as you take the medicine. So that makes a lot of sense, I
guess to keep the to keep it regulated and make sure people
are getting a a consistent dosage.
(25:06):
So how does that work in the DMT5 MEO Bufo world?
The Bufo is the the real deal, the whole experience.
The the I mean, are they the same effective experience?
I mean, I'll say this, right. So I, I worked at an IBM clinic
for about 9 months and an Amiolife Sciences and Amvio
works with five MEO synthetic. The synthetic version of the
(25:28):
molecule or the medicine? I've actually, it's funny enough
that whole time I was there, I only served that outside of the
center. I've never served the synthetic
version. I only worked with the towed
Venom. It's hard to gauge if there's a
difference, right? Because it could just be a
different experience for that participant, right?
(25:49):
Although there could be significant differences in that
journey, who's to say it could have been the same thing if it
was one or the other, right? But the feedback I have gotten
from quite a few people that have done both is they seem to
gravitate towards more more towards the toad venom.
Interesting. You know, hear different things,
(26:11):
right? But it's very hard to say.
I mean, I'll tell you this, all the times I've facilitated
using, using 5 any other molecule seems to do the same
beautiful work. So that's a plus.
Right when you, when you say toad venom, how do you go about
getting this? So you have you have to like go
find a bunch of toads and extract this venom from them.
(26:31):
And that's how I mean, like I, Ihave AI like to know the
process, you know, I, I think. Yeah, it's a beautiful process.
Is it? Yeah.
Oh yeah. I mean, if you're getting it
from the right ear, yeah. If you're sourcing it from
people, oh, go ahead. Sorry brother, sorry.
No worries, no worries, no worries.
I know there's a lag and I know your Internet there is not
(26:52):
amazing, but it's OK. No worries like the but the so
DMT is released from your entireor throughout your entire body
at creation right or conception and then it's released
throughout your body at the day you die, but the rest of the
time in your life it's inside ofevery living Organism, but it's
(27:13):
just traces of it. Is that right They.
Say they say, I mean, for whatever reason, this toad
carries the highest concentration from my
understanding to my knowledge, the highest concentration of
five MEO DMT and the way that I'm sure there's many different
ways that the medicine is sourced, right?
(27:35):
And I'm sure there's ways that are probably not, you know,
correct. You know what I mean?
Like, I'm sure there's people that are doing it very.
Yeah, exactly. So the beautiful way that it's
done. There's communities out there,
you know, they call themselves collectors, right?
They don't want to do anything beyond collecting the medicine.
And to them, that's a sacred process in itself.
(27:56):
So what they do is it's interesting, these these toes
hibernate a majority of the yearand usually they come out during
the monsoon, rainy seasons to mate and they capture these
toads. Now, just to give you an
example, right? Like if they capture the toad
and they don't relax that toad, when they squeeze the glands of
the venom, it could actually spray or trickle blood into that
(28:18):
venom, which you want to avoid. So when they capture the toad,
they actually hold and correct, like nurture it, kind of calm it
down before they begin the extraction process.
And all that is, is basically, you know, they capture the toad,
they'll have a piece of glass kind of above it and it has
glands all over its body that carries this venom.
It's a defense mechanism. And what they do is the largest
(28:39):
ones are on his throat. And they'll squeeze those glands
like a pimple onto this glass. So they'll do this throughout
the evening and then the following morning as the sun's
coming up, there's ceremony that's taking place and that
sun, as it's arising, it's drying that venom, once it's
fully dried, it's broken up and shipped out.
That's the process. Now where are these toads
(29:02):
located? Sonoran Desert, there's a high
population in the Hermosillo in the Sonoran Desert.
There's certain regions in Arizona as well, just not as
dense, right, But primarily the Sonoran Desert in Mexico.
And it's a certain type of toad,so you have to know what you're
looking for. You don't want to run around
(29:22):
picking up all the toads and. Yeah, Squeeze.
Them right like I. Feel bad for the person I.
Was trying to yeah, exactly. But as a public service
announcement, do not go out, capture your own toad and
squeeze it. Like, don't do that.
OK, There's pros at this stuff. So yeah.
How many of them does it take orhow much does how much does one
(29:43):
toad create of it? I mean, is it enough to provide
one person in the medicine or isit enough to provide 10 people
with medicine? I mean, what's kind of the
ratio? Yes, it's hard to say, right,
because they're all different sizes of well, right.
But you get a good significant amount from the glands, right.
I'd you know, there's dosing that's included as well, right.
(30:05):
So I'd say probably perhaps withone to three, I mean you're
looking at about maybe up to 10 people.
It really depends, right. Also another thing to keep in
mind is after these toads, they extract the venom, they don't
release them back into the wild.They'll actually contain them.
Apparently they they're able to replenish that venom fairly
quickly. So by the morning, you know,
(30:25):
they're good to go. So that way they don't release
them without having that venom restored too.
So just that one thing I wanted to note as well, which is
obviously what makes this process a bit, well, it makes it
beautiful, right? They're actually mindful of, you
know, what they're doing and notjust releasing the toad after
they've excreted the probably the largest glands on its body.
(30:45):
But yeah, to answer your question, I'd say, you know,
depending on the size of the toad, it varies, right?
It's hard to say, but just roughly probably those numbers.
That's crazy and it is cool to me because obviously being a
yoga teacher and somebody who believes in intention and
setting an intention and, you know, love and that kind of
thing. The fact that they use all that
(31:05):
and making sure that the processis is not only humane, but it's
beautiful. And the attraction of that, you
know, is something that I think is very important because like
you said, if you do it wrong, itcould end up badly.
And I could easily see where this could become a government
thing where they have toads in afactory and they're just
squeezing them out, you know, all day every day.
And they're making you know, some you know, they prostitute
(31:27):
the the industry of that. But no, it's.
Interesting. Yeah, hopefully never happened
that way. Yeah, Yeah.
But I'll say this, you know, it's funny, I have a a buddy of
mine who actually purchased the toads.
I think he purchased them or he,he got his hand on two of them
and they don't extract the same type of venom.
It's not potent. So I think it certainly has to
(31:49):
be in a natural habitat for it to be able to actually produce,
you know, the venom that is as potent as it's producing in its
natural habitat. Yeah.
I mean, he tried and just no success, which is interesting,
right? Yeah.
Yeah, you got to leave them where they are in order for it
to work because that's where they probably, that's how they
(32:09):
develop it is from whatever they're eating in that area, you
know, like. Exactly.
Sort of like in Chile, they havethe best honey in the world
because you guys have those plants down there that taste
amazing and the bees love them. So the honey tastes so good.
I've never had honey in my life that was better than in Chile.
Matter of fact, I wanted, I wanted to import honey to
America from Chile. And I was like, we can make so
(32:31):
much money with this too, all because of these flowers that
Chile has that the bees love. So I guess kind of thing.
So the the the process then became obviously a medicine, but
you decided to become a facilitator.
Yeah, like you decided to help. And obviously I've helped
(32:51):
probably a few people. How many people would you say
have a over clarity? I mean, during my time at the
Ibn clinic, you know, I was, I spent nine months roughly down
there. I was a facilitator for one of
the centers which received about6 people per week.
And then, you know, in time I facilitated at 2, two of their
(33:14):
centers and the other house alsoor the other center also
received about 6 people, six people per week.
And then occasionally, you know,I was covering here and there
that a detox house or center as well.
So occasionally I'd get, you know, asked to facilitate there.
And then on top of the retreats that I'm doing, you know, I'd,
(33:36):
I'd certainly say over 1000 at this point.
I mean, just overall, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, there's, it's certainly over 1000 at this point.
So quite a bit of field experience, you know, and I, and
I credit it really to Ambio, Ambio Life Sciences.
When I was down there, I, I acquired a lot of knowledge
(33:57):
absolutely and facilitate. Is the top notch one.
Got it. So Ambio is the one that people
would want to go to there if they had to experience or wanted
to experience the ibogaine and the five Meo, right?
They do both. Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, just their approach, I mean, hands down I believe is
(34:17):
top notch, right. I mean, you're doing a full
medical analysis and screening prior to even going.
You're offering, you're getting preparation work, integration
work after the nurturing care provided during your time down
there. I'm very familiar with the
program. And I mean, I think what's most
important for because as you were alluding to earlier, right,
there's a lot of people, especially, you know, Ambio has
does a lot of work with Veteran Solutions, the organization in
(34:40):
that sense that provides grants for special forces veterans.
A lot of these recipients that were coming down, these
participants that were coming down have no experience even
smoking a cigarette, right? So I think what's very important
is in these spaces such as the Ambio provides, is you have to
have that quality of comfort andsafety.
Without that, you don't have anything, right?
(35:01):
You're going to have a lot of unhappy people, right?
So when you're able to provide that nurturing, comforting
safety, it allows someone to really just be more at an ease,
regardless of the emotions that are stimulated going into an
experience such as Ibogaine and five.
But having that as a, you know, in your corner is really helpful
and supportive for these people that are coming down.
(35:23):
So is there after 1000 people orplus is there any danger to
doing this? Is there anything that people
like a warning label should be put on this whole entire process
or I know when I interviewed Sarah Yardley, who's the Iboga
shaman, she said, you know, she runs the thorough EE GE KG blood
(35:43):
work work up panel. She requires the whole thing
prior to coming in. Is that something that you have
to do with Bufo? As expected with Ivy gain
because it's a lot more delicatewith the heart, right?
With Bufo, I believe it's a verysafe medicine.
Just as with anything, there's contraindications to look out
for such as SSR is certain stimulants like Adderall, things
(36:04):
of that nature. But yeah, every person that I
work with undergoes a complete like onboarding and screening.
Also, there's a full registration process that covers
a a variety of different questions related to health
conditions and, you know, prescription medications.
And then, you know, participantsare provided like tapering
schedules per medications that are contraindicating with five
ineo DMT. Yeah, I believe it's a very safe
(36:27):
thing to do, much safer than a lot of things that people are
able to do. Right.
And covering these grounds, I think it's, yeah, covering these
grounds is essential. Certainly, certainly safer than
the the hydrocodone or whatever you're taking for your.
Safer the hydrocodone. Probably safer than alcohol.
Honestly, probably safer than alcohol.
(36:48):
I mean, there's contraindications with alcohol
too, right? There's contraindications with
Advil, Tylenol, like all of it, right?
Just because there's a contraindication doesn't mean
that that it's necessarily a badthing.
It's like, hey, we got to give a, some guidance and preparation
prior to the person having this experience.
And you know, there's not so much research with five in the
old with Bufo as there is other modalities.
(37:08):
There has been studies done, certainly significant
improvements in mental health disorders or symptoms such as
anxiety, depression and things of that nature.
But I do believe that there's something very strongly to
consider when it comes to its effectiveness and dealing with
antidepressants because I see ittime and time again.
I work with a lot of veterans, alot of first responders that are
(37:29):
taking SSR is we provide a tapering schedule for them and
they arrive to the ceremony or to the gathering, you know,
following that tapering guideline.
And it happens so frequently that they don't go back on to
those SSR is. So I do believe there's
something that's there that needs to be studied when it
comes to dual foe or five meo. Yeah, it seems to me that I
(37:53):
began is getting a lot of popularity and it's actually
being money's being put into it in Arizona and Texas to do
research about what does. Obviously we all know that
psilocybin is making a wave and everybody's kind of
understanding that that can helpa lot of veterans.
And obviously you know that I have my nonprofit vets to yoga,
which my whole passion is stopping the 22 a day.
(38:14):
So getting rid of this suicide epidemic.
But it's more 44 people a day soldiers today, because when you
take into account the slow killing process of alcoholism
and drugs, it's a lot bigger number, right?
So we've got to figure out how to stop all of that, not just a
piece of it. And I think that ibogaine is
getting a lot of attention. Psilocybin's coming along
(38:35):
nicely. We finally getting somewhere
with THC. Do you think that Bufo will be
the next one that people will start looking into to see as a
healing modality? I mean, it needs to be at least
acknowledged. I believe it needs to be brought
up, certainly. Should be.
I don't see how it hasn't yet. It certainly should be.
I mean, it's certainly very profound.
(38:57):
I mean, excuse me. Outside of it being a very
profound and, you know, experience and whatever's
happening in terms of like, well, we're able to comprehend
it. Like, yeah, significant
improvements and anxiety, depression.
But I I believe truly it goes sofar beyond that, just like the
certain like unknown mysteries when it comes to what actually
is taking place in the brain fully.
When someone does Ivy game, I mean complete, it's known that
(39:19):
it has immense effect in dealingwith TBI, traumatic brain
injury, you know, entirely reversing symptoms at times, if
not entirely about 8090%. You know, I believe the
Stanford's studies that were done with amnio life sciences
proved that, but also its effectiveness in dealing with
opiates, right? So yeah, when it comes to
beautiful, I don't see how it's not getting more attention
(39:40):
because I think all these modalities play a, a very
beautiful role in the overall like comprehensive entirety of
like someone's ability to fully heal, right.
So I think they're all have a beautiful, you know, place in
that process. No, I think I, I agree with you
100%. I actually have the design and
plan of the program that we needto implement to end veteran
(40:03):
suicide when it involves every single one of the modalities
because like you said, one's great for addiction and hands
down the best thing for addiction and that Ibogaine or
Iboga and then you've got. Bufo, which is for traumatic
brain injuries or for PTSD and that kind of thing, which could
be the solution there, you know,But if we've got all these
(40:24):
soldiers coming back, they're going to have different issues,
so they're going to need to go down different paths for
healing. So I've kind of designed that
process where you evaluate them and figure out the game plan
ahead of time to make sure that they don't go down the wrong
process and you know, they don'thave an addiction, they have a
brain injury and then they're doing, you know, Bufo, no, no,
(40:44):
no, that's the wrong category. We need to make sure they're
going in the right places. I think that's amazing.
That's got. And I think it's very.
Important to make it happen. Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's very important too, like because not everyone's
called to a specific one, right,Like, but I think it's important
to, you know, the people who arecalled to work with these
(41:05):
medicines, like, you know, having the access to do the one
that they feel called to. And I believe that opens the
door after, because chances are they become a believer after,
right? And then they start considering
other modalities that can be very effective, you know, for
them personally. So yeah, they should all be
available. They're all, you know,
absolutely beautiful. Certainly some work and
(41:26):
challenges that come with him, but yeah.
Yeah, exactly. It's not just all done.
Once you leave there, you're notlike all of a sudden cured for
life, right? Yeah, yeah, it's the hard truth
for sure. Well, that's where that's where
the I integrate the yoga, the meditation and the breath work
and the things that I do as partof the healing process for, for
(41:50):
your for veterans is because I know that they plant medicine,
you know, it's powerful, but you've got to come back and
you've also got to make some real changes within yourself.
You know, you've got to do some things differently.
And I think so many people don'tdo that.
They don't put in the work. And that's why it's like, you
know, we've got to lay it out fundamentally to where it's
(42:10):
like, OK, now you're going to start your day with meditation,
then we're going to do a yoga practice and then we're going to
go into some physical training. You know what I mean?
Like re redesign the lifestyle. And so it's a it's a process.
I think it's something that we all got to put together and make
it work. But So what would you say like
is we're all final finale, grandfinale statement about Bufo and
(42:36):
what you do and what Oh, wait, hold on.
Wait, what's your company name? The organization I have is Amor
Fati. Yeah.
So basically my time down in Mexico.
What ended up happening? I love that.
I know, it's such a what? Are the there it is there it is.
Is that? Yeah, amazing.
(42:56):
So I'm repping. It's amazing repping your
company every. Day.
Yeah, I love it. I got to tag you now.
Copyright. Yeah.
So the motive for that me establishing that organization
is, you know, I was working downat Ambio week to week.
You meet people from all over the states, right?
And being the on site host, the guy that's supporting the group
(43:18):
throughout the week, you really start establishing bonds with
the people that are coming through.
You know, unfortunately ibogaineis not the cheapest thing to do
at the moment, right? I mean there's efforts being
made to change that, but at the moment it's still very
expensive. So meeting people week after
week that sit with ibogaine to sit with five and you know, for
whatever reason, people really gravitated towards 5 and, you
(43:40):
know, towards BUFO. And it seems to be a medicine
that people for management reasons, you know, there's
certainly time in between, but that they, they feel very
therapeutic benefit and revisiting.
So what ended up happening is, you know, meeting all these
people from all over the stage. Eventually I started getting
invitations to travel because, you know, their friend who can't
(44:01):
afford to go down to Mexico or you know, they feel that their
wife could benefit and they're seeing all the changes are
taking place with that participant or that person,
right? So eventually I started
travelling and just continue to grow.
And I was balancing both for quite some time working at the
Ivy Game clinic and then doing this travelling, facilitating
these retreats offering Bufo andit continued to grow and, and it
(44:25):
became difficult to balance. So I decided to, you know, have
a deep love for facilitating Bufo.
So I decided to go that route for a variety of different
reasons as well, and then it wasthe motive for me to establish
that organization, to legitimizethe practice in the States.
Wow. Yeah, putting it together like
that has got to be a lot of work, too.
I mean, it's kind of going against the grain, right?
(44:48):
Pharmaceutical world doesn't want that to happen.
They don't want to cure. People want people dependent,
which you are for many years. Yeah, she's on the other side of
it. Yeah.
I was on the other side of it for a long, long time, man, for
a long time. And there wasn't a hand, a hand
extended to me during that time,right?
Like it, it was, you know, it, it's funny the way it works.
(45:08):
It's almost they want to keep you in it.
What's offered in in the States to, you know, pharmacy,
pharmaceutical companies, I mean, the same people that are
making the opiates are making the Suboxone.
And then essentially you're trading one thing for another
and then you're still wrapped upin the Suboxone, right?
And then you'll go back to opiates.
And I mean, it's a vicious cycleI could share all about, but we
could, you know, yeah. Which to me it's crazy because,
(45:31):
you know, curing people with these, with these healing
medicines, there's we're still never going to run out of people
to heal. Like that's never going to be a
thing. It's always going to be more
people that are going to get broken.
So I don't understand keeping them as a patient forever and
making all that money and then, you know, like, why not heal
them? We'll get a whole nother batch
of broken people. Don't worry, the military
(45:52):
produces them the loads, you know, So to me that would be a
more effective and more efficient way to get things
going. And that's kind of part of the
game plan is right, is to get these guys before they get back
and then put them through an evaluation so we know what they
need treatment wise. And then we run them through the
program, prepare them for civilian life, heal them, get
them ready. And then we get them out in the
(46:13):
community and we give them sponsors like a, a, a somewhere
that, you know, someone in the community who's been through it
or a veteran that's already beentrained or mental health care,
whatever it is somebody. But also we need to establish
little communities in every state for veterans that they can
go to anytime they need to and just stay there, talk to people,
have community. Cause community and environment
(46:35):
is such a huge part of healing. And if you're isolated?
It's essential. It's essential, yeah.
Yeah, which is what you learn about jiu jitsu.
Jiu jitsu is very similar. Such a amazing community of
people. You know, if you do jiu jitsu,
it's it's sort of like CrossFit.CrossFit.
You know how you know if somebody does CrossFit, don't
worry. About that, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(46:58):
I have a good friend of mine whocompeted.
In the games. Yeah.
He, oh, you know, a Games athlete, huh?
Yeah, yeah. One of my good friends that I
grew up with, he competed and I think it was 2016 CrossFit
Games, man, he told me. He got to the point where he was
just in it for survival. It was rough.
(47:18):
I mean, it's a certainly a challenging sport.
I mean, the sport of fitness, I guess.
So that's why. But you know, yoga's pretty
challenging for people as well. I, I tell, I tell people I
meditate 2 hours a day and they're like, I can't meditate
for two minutes. And I'm like, well, guess what?
You need it more than anyone like this.
They didn't wake up. Two hour meditations.
(47:40):
It took many years to get to that, you know, And this this
November, I get to go out to India and train with my, my, my
Swami and become a grandmaster of meditation.
So I think that's a really cool thing to, to continuously
progress on getting more knowledge and more information.
It's not about the titles, it's about the experiences that you
can go through to get the information, the knowledge that
(48:02):
you need to help other people. Correct.
Yeah, absolutely. So that's well, Juan, I
appreciate you being last minutewith me, man.
I'm glad to have you on the show.
It was very special. I've learned a ton, so we'll
definitely do it again. I'll see you soon, no doubt.
Sounds good, brother. Hey, thank you.
Have a wonderful day. You too.
(48:24):
You too.
I am positively Chris Pace and you are actively listening to
conversations with Chris. Today got a great guest, Juan
Aguilera. That's correct pronunciation.
You guys know I struggle with that, but I'm sure he'll correct
me here in a second if I'm wrong.
But Juan's got an incredible story and I'm excited to share
with you guys. He's going to tell us about some
(00:34):
stuff that really I don't know much about and I'd like to know
a lot more about. So that's why we're having this
conversation today. So here we go.
Juan, How are you today, brother?
I'm doing well. I'm doing well.
And yourself. Oh, really well, really well.
Busy, busy, busy, but always trying to do something positive.
Beautiful can. You hear me?
(00:55):
OK, Yeah. Yeah.
Can you hear me? Yep, you're good to go.
So tell us about you. Tell us where you come from,
where you know where. Where did Little wands start
out? Little wands start out, I mean,
yeah, I was born in Glendale, CAin Los Angeles and my both of my
parents are from Chile in South America, so they had property
(01:18):
out there still. So after I was born, they moved
back to Chile and I spent my first seven years of life on
Chile and then they came back and been in California pretty
much ever since. Wow, that's crazy.
I went to Chile for three monthson a sabbatical and was down
there and I I went to Santiago and Vina Del Mar and Valparaiso,
(01:39):
and then I drove all the way down to Chile and I spent two
months sitting on a in Chile. It was amazing.
Beautiful country, beautiful country.
So that's cool that you got to live there.
Yeah, I never went back until about 3 1/2 years ago.
It was the first time I ever went back.
So really, ever since my parentsmoved me back, yeah, to the
(02:00):
States, I never went back until about 3 or 4 years ago.
So when you moved to California,you obviously got in the school
system, graduated, all that kindof stuff.
What happened in your life? I mean, where?
How did you get to where you aretoday?
Yeah. So, yeah, when my parents moved
back, I mean, it's a long story,but, you know, it's the best of
(02:22):
my recollection. You know, there's AI grew up in
a very physically violent household, right?
So there was a lot of trouble happening within the house.
And yeah, just, you know, I remember going to school,
remember learning English, remember the teacher yelling at
me because I was having a hard time learning English.
(02:44):
And yeah, you know, yeah. Just remember, you know, I went
through elementary school, junior high, high school,
everything out here. But yeah, I, I have clear memory
of, you know, things that happened early on in my life.
So trauma at a young age, Yeah. And then obviously the the
(03:05):
complication of having to learn in English as a second language
or as you obviously were taught,the worst Spanish in the world.
From what the Chileans tell me, they say they brag about the
fact they speak the worst Spanish.
Yeah, it's hard to understand. The thing is, I I looked up SIPO
for like, yeah, I was looking. I'm looking for sepo.
Sepo. What's sepo?
They go, oh, no, we just had PO to the end of every word.
(03:27):
I'm like, you're kidding me, right?
I'll familiar. I'll familiar.
What does Wyon mean? Yeah, yeah.
That does wyon mean they're likeit means it means dude, I'm
like, no it doesn't because you didn't use it in that term.
I mean, I think it has a lot of different meanings, but that was
my dad's favorite word. Yes.
He's always calling us whale andwhale something silly.
(03:47):
Whale, you know, the friends call each other whale.
And so I'm still trying to figure out and dissect myself
what it actually means, but. OK, cool.
So you don't know either. No one's ever given me a
straight answer. So you had all this trauma to do
after you graduated. What was the what was the
journey for you? Where'd you go and did you hit
the college route or did you go the military route?
(04:09):
What was your? No, So, yeah, I mean, what was
the, I guess for it to really make sense, right?
Like, you know, I, I had an older brother, I have many
siblings, right? But I, I had an older brother
that was a professional Muay Thai fighter.
So, you know, we were introducedto martial arts at an early age
by myself and my middle brother Gerardo.
And we were introduced to martial arts and I really
(04:31):
gravitated towards it. You know, it was exposed to us
early on. So, you know, I just
recollecting back like I just, Ididn't know that it was this
back then, but now I know what it is.
It was right. It was like this, not like this
heavy anxiety that just followedme around everywhere, right.
And, you know, it was just part of my day-to-day life.
(04:53):
And then, you know, as I got older and I, you know, I started
doing boxing in high school, youknow, I was introduced to jiu
jitsu, MMA, and I had found thisbeautiful outlet to deal with
that anxiety, but it was very short lived.
It was like a temporary relief, right?
So what I mean by that is, you know, I'd go train and have like
feel incredible after. But shortly after that anxiety
(05:15):
would creep back in. And I'd say about 1314 years
old, I was introduced to opiatesdue to a surgery that I had when
I was a kid. So it became, you know, martial
arts, a combination of martial arts.
And then once the anxiety crept in, crept up, it would be
(05:35):
resorting to substances to kind of just suppress this anxiety
that I was dealing with. And I was really truly just
normalizing it, right? I mean, I had no idea that what
I was doing initially, what was wrong?
It started off recreational likehere and there, and then
eventually it it became a full blown addiction.
And the craziest part about it is I was managing, you know,
this life of competing in martial arts.
(05:56):
I did several MMA fights, competed in jiu jitsu, was very
disciplined in training. But my life outside of training
was a nightmare, you know? So, yeah. 13 years old man
opiate opiate. So that's a young age to get
introduced and and surely you have enough excuses to keep
taking it with jiu jitsu becauseyou're always hurting.
(06:18):
Yeah, well, especially when the doctor prescribed it to you.
And, you know, I remember my mom, she was actually with me at
that appointment and she didn't.The doctor, from what what I
recall, he didn't say like, here, hang on to this and
monitor this. I remember having it right there
on my shelf, man. And I'd take one, I feel, you
know, an hour later I was takingthe next one, you know, and I
was just going through them, right?
(06:39):
And I had no idea what I was doing.
I was oblivious to what I was doing.
And I remember when I went back for a check up, I had to ask for
a refill. And the doctor's like, no way,
you know. But at that point it was like,
you already made the introduction, man.
So it was, I think it was beginning to the end from right
there with that. And so that lasted a long time.
(07:00):
Yeah. So how long?
How did you end up breaking thatone?
I mean, you obviously don't seemaddicted to opioids now.
Oh, far from it, man. I mean, you know, I'll say this,
you know, if you want to say that the addiction started right
then and there, like I can't say, But from the time that I
was introduced to opiates to thetime that I was actually able to
(07:21):
fully kick the habit, 17 years, more or less, right?
I mean, teenager, you know, and it just progressively got worse,
right? What started, you know, here and
there, you know, I'd have like acouple that would not just throw
in some theoretical numbers, right?
But I'd have like a handful of them that would last me a week,
two weeks, who knows, near the tail end of my addiction, you
(07:44):
know, I was, you know, anything I can get my hands off my hands
on and that included fentanyl, really anything.
And it would take, you know, I'dgo through 80 pills and a day
and a half, two days. It was, it got into a very,
yeah, it got into a very bad, you know, and I'm not that big
of a guy either. So, you know, it was yeah, I was
(08:07):
just going through them so. Yeah, wow, that's a lot of
pills, man. That's like an incredible
amount. Did you have to go to like
treatment or did you end up finding a solution?
Or did somebody come along and magically hit you with a wand
and said you're no longer addicted to these or what was?
Yeah. So, yeah, I explored every
(08:28):
alternative, that conventional option that I was aware of,
right, that I could discover here stateside of detox, you
know, cold Turkey, you know, I was, I was able to stop like
many times over for like maybe short time, short period of
time. But that depression, anxiety,
which is it was like overwhelming.
So I'd fall right back, right. So I certainly explored other
(08:48):
options. But funny enough, at this point,
you know, I was on the Joe Roganpodcast, he had this guest
feeder or you know, one of the the guests on it was Aubrey
Marcus. And they're talking about
ibogame. And at this point, I had never
done any form of psychedelic in my life, right?
So they're talking about the substance called ibogaine.
And when I discovered ibogaine, it was gaining a lot of
(09:11):
popularity for its effectivenessand dealing with opiate
addiction. So at that moment, I was in pure
desperation. And two to three weeks later, I
was at an ibogaine clinic and wow, I, yeah, 2-3 weeks later,
just went with it, found the first center I could find.
Didn't really do much research outside of what I heard on this
(09:32):
podcast. And I'll tell you this, going
into it so blindly, it did exactly what I wanted it, what I
intended it to do, right? I mean, they say it's like,
through the course of one evening, it could completely
reverse an addiction, right? To substances and even
psychological substances as well, right?
(09:52):
Doesn't even apply only to physical like substance
dependency. And I, I just remember that
following morning, man, I felt horrific.
But quickly thereafter I realized that I wasn't craving
opiates. Wow, that's amazing, man.
So hold on, let me let's we're going to step off topic.
So the only other podcast you'veever done was with Joe Rogan?
(10:15):
No, I no, I didn't do the podcast with Joe Rogan.
I saw the Joe Rogan podcast. Hello, gotcha.
I was like you said, you did onepodcast.
I'm like, wow, that's cool. No, no, no, no, it was.
No. It didn't.
It didn't a lot. Last one.
So it's, it's funny that you saythat you went down to Mexico,
(10:36):
right? And that's where you were
treated. I had a good friend, Matt Wiz
Buckley. This is actually his his coin
that he has, which is so cool because he's a Top Gun pilot in
the Navy. And then he's got the
psychedelic eyes. Isn't that cool?
Shout out to Whiz. Amazing, amazing guy.
(10:56):
One team, one fight. That's his slogan.
So he's just incredible. But yeah, he went down to Mexico
and his he was the first person I heard about Abigain.
And he had an addiction to alcoholism.
And he said after he did ibogaine, he couldn't be near
alcohol. It made him sick and he said
they just, you couldn't even smell it.
And I'm like, wow. And so I looked it up. 85%
(11:18):
effective. One treatment, curing addiction,
which makes sense because psychological addiction is
really, you're addicted to escaping reality.
It's not the choice of the drug or the choice of the substance.
It's the getting out of your ownreality basically, right.
So that's why it's curing. But that's amazing that there's
something out there that can fixpeople just like that.
(11:42):
Yeah, I mean, it requires. So there's more to the story,
right? I what's, what's truly
remarkable about ibogaine is, yeah, its ability to interrupt
an addiction, right? So they call it the addiction
interrupter. And it's so accurate, right.
But beyond that, what it does soexceptionally well is how you're
feeling psychologically after, right?
A lot of addicts when they get off of substances, maybe alcohol
(12:04):
included as well. I've it's like sometimes
they're, they're able to manage to stop the use, but there's
that all that damage that's beendone throughout that period of
addiction, right? That just leaves them so broken
and hopeless. So it's really hard.
I mean, some, there's a very small number of people probably
that are able to push through and get through that phase, but
a lot of people can't. And I was one of them, right?
(12:24):
That depression is so heavy. So I think Ibogaine, what it
does exceptionally well is actually this on top of just
interrupting the addiction. So you just no longer craved
them, you no longer wanted them,you no longer interested?
Or was it immediate? Or did it take some time or?
Immediately after, yeah, I mean,literally the next morning.
(12:46):
It was such a remarkable experience.
Like I alluded to earlier, like I went into it so blindly,
right? What ended up happening with me
is at that time that I did it, Ididn't really have any
preparation or any like, plan after.
I was like, hey, I discovered this alternative to get right.
So I went down did it, man, and I just went right back into the
(13:08):
environments that I was in before, right?
I mean, slogan started drinking a little bit.
It's funny, man. I think I, I thought alcohol
wasn't an issue for me. And, you know, now I know how
big of an issue it was, but yeah, I could get to that.
But yeah, I slowly started drinking.
I had a pretty unique and interesting job opportunity to
come up for me, but I had this like like new found confidence
(13:32):
after having done that experience, right?
Like I felt like a completely different person.
So if I had known how to preserve that, I would have
probably done a lot better that first go around.
But I actually ended up doing ittwice about three months after
my first ibogaine treatment. Again, long story, started
drinking. One particular event took place,
woke up with a hangover. Anxiety was there, went right
(13:55):
back to opiates and then, but for me, that first initial
journey was kind of like that gateway and that opening where I
knew that there was alternativesthat exist that were much, much
more effective than anything else I had tried.
From then, you know, I went to go to ayahuasca out in the
Amazon jungle for two weeks. I was out there for two weeks.
And then shortly after that, or not shortly after that, but a
(14:17):
couple months after that, I decided to do ibogaine again.
And that was about on May 27th of this year.
That would have marked three years from that treatment.
And from then on, it was such a vastly different experience.
The second time I did Ivy game that I just knew.
Like when you just know something with complete clarity
and certainty, that was me. After that second Ivy game
(14:39):
journey, it's like I actually experienced in a very beautiful
way, an intense way of what I was doing to my body.
And I came out of it with like, this deep appreciation for, you
know, myself, some self worth, self worth.
And yeah, I just never looked back after that second one.
Yeah, that's amazing. And it's funny to me because,
(15:00):
you know, you're here and clean and healthy and now making a
difference in the world. And Wiz, when we were talking
about his experience, he got invited by some Special Forces
guys and he just was like, what?Go to Mexico and do drugs with
Special Forces guys? Yeah, it sounds great.
It's wild. So he had no no idea what he was
getting into. Also now he had the experience
(15:22):
of ibogaine I think 1st and thenfive meo the next day which is
DMT correct? And that's five MO DMT the first
time I did I the first time. I'm sorry.
Go ahead. Go ahead.
I was going to say, tell me about that and how is that how
your experience went or was it the same type of setup?
(15:43):
First time I went down to Mexico.
Yes, the first time I did it, itwas Ivy game first, then five
MEO DMT after. So basically this the same kind
of program the first time I wentto it.
The second time I did it, I actually did it with an
underground facilitator in the States and I did not do 5 MEODMT
(16:04):
after that experience, which wasessentially the one that got me
right like that, laid that foundation for me to make some
significant changes in my life. Wow.
OK, so how did so I did I serve you at all when you went to the
Amazon? Did you get anything from that
one? Man, I'm sure I did.
Like for me, when I look back onthat now, I feel like it was a a
(16:24):
very intense detox, right? I mean, I did it 7 times out of
eight. It was a two week experience.
I mean, being in the Amazon jungle alone is an experience in
itself, right? Especially if you're a guy from
California. I remember I got to that.
So you fly to the capital Peru and then you fly to a a town or
a city called Akito's, which is like the hub for ayahuasca
(16:46):
centers and or like the hub where everyone meets to go to
the ayahuasca centers. And I remember I got to the
ketos. Then from there you take like a
two to three hour bus ride to a port and then you're like 3 hour
boat ride into the jungle. So you're like deep, deep, deep
in the Amazon. And hey, I will say, yeah,
(17:07):
perhaps I did gain significant benefit from it.
I'm not quite sure. I think there's these
experiences do so much more thanwe can actually articulate, you
know, But even then I didn't gain that if you want to label
it this revelation or what I wasseeking, because it was shortly
after that again, you know, thataddiction just, you know,
(17:29):
overpowered my desire to stay clean.
And that ended up leading me to probably the tail end worst part
of the addiction because at thispoint, you can imagine me being
in this situation where I've done IB game, you know, I did
ayahuasca and I'm still meeting failure in terms of being able
to gain complete sobriety from opiates.
(17:50):
And then it's a, it's a very interesting story, But I got
connected with this guy and man,he, if it hadn't been for his
compassion and just constant communication with me, I
probably wouldn't have ever doneit again.
And he just caught me at the right time.
And I ended up flying to Boston to an Airbnb and did the second
(18:14):
I began treatment. And, man, forever grateful.
Forever grateful. Just the preparation you've been
leading into it was so vastly different than what I did in the
center that I went to initially.I mean, the center I went to, I
don't even know if it exists anymore.
It was very sketchy. Yeah.
Yeah, I can imagine that in Mexico, right.
(18:35):
So it's got to be a little less than ideal scenario or setting.
Yeah. What it didn't have an all the
awareness that these centers have now, right.
So like now you hear of like centers such as Ambio, that's
where I worked for, you know, I believe in about nine months I
was working at Ambio and it's luxury, right?
(18:55):
I mean there's just not a betteroffering in terms of IBM segment
in the world right now, my opinion, right.
But I truly believe that the place I went to was the opposite
of Ambio. I mean I in so many different
ways, but I mean, hey, it aligned the way it was supposed
to for me. Yeah, Ambio is like the Gucci
(19:16):
and you were at the Walmart of IVA game.
Man, I was probably, I was probably worse than Walmart.
Man, maybe Dollar Tree. No offense, no offense to
Walmart or Dollar Tree, but that's amazing.
So we touched on five MEODMT being a part of your process,
but that didn't seem to be the one that changed your life yet
(19:37):
that's the one that you chose tobecome a healer with.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I, you know, it's interesting, you know, because I like to say
that Ivy gain it laid the necessary foundation for me to
be able to change my life, right, because the wrong
(19:58):
approach when doing these medicines, these, you know,
these forms of healing is to go into expecting that all will be
resolved after, right. And then perhaps I had that form
of approach the first time I didit, which is why, you know, I
ended up where I was after that first, you know, try with Ivy
game. But ultimately, when you're
(20:18):
ready, you're ready, you know, And I think after that second
one, that second Ivy game treatment.
It laid the foundation, but brother, it required so much
work for me after too. You know, like there was a lot
of sacrifice that I had to make.I had to completely disconnect
myself from, you know, certain environments, people that I had
contact with, even the people that were reaching out to me,
you know, that were very much tied to that, you know, world,
(20:42):
if you want to label it that. So it certainly required a lot
of work for me. But yes, I mean in terms of the
substance dependency I had to gain.
Man it made me feel like I nevertouched an opiate in my life.
Wow, wow, so cleansed and so thefive meo that you did the first
time around, did you have any kind of cool experience with
that? Is that why you found it that
(21:03):
way back to it? I mean, what?
What was the draw for you? It's interesting, like after I
was introduced to it, it was like the medicine I would resort
to because there, this time frame that I've given you, there
was like it was many years rightin between and I was doing all
like after I had done Bufo the first time, 5 Emilio DMTI, you
(21:25):
know, I got connected with that facilitator and I would
occasionally go down if he was hosting these retreats, these
gatherings. So like, man, I found immense
benefit with that medicine specifically, right?
But when I reflect back on it, Ithink perhaps in ways maybe I
wasn't deriving the most out of those experiences because I was
always very much still in a, in a heavy cycle of addiction,
(21:48):
right? Which was the case even when I
did ayahuasca, right? So although they were very
profound experiences, like I remember my first time, like
clearly it was so beautiful for whatever reason, you know, my
middle brother and I, we're veryclose.
We've been through a lot, you know, early on just, you know,
(22:10):
and I had no intention of I, I don't even know if I was
thinking of him. But I remember going into that
journey and I felt like I was screaming his name, just saying
I was sorry and that I love you.I love you.
And when I came out of the journey, I just fell into
complete tears. And I was asking, you know, the
people that were there observingand holding space for me.
And they said I was. I didn't say a word.
So it's wild to think about. Yeah.
(22:35):
Wow yeah that's intense. SO5 MEO DMT is the same thing as
Bufo. Yeah.
So if you're in the space, the way to differentiate the two, if
you're unfamiliar, when people refer to bufo, toad, sapol,
these are all terms when they'rereferring to the substance
(22:56):
that's actually derived from thebufo, A various Sonoran Desert
toad, right? So when someone says oh I
facilitated Bufo or I sat with Bufo, chances are they're
referring to the actual toad venom that's derived from the
toad in the space when people say 5 or God.
That's the one that you do in like the arm and it leaves a
(23:17):
scar. That's the frog medicine type
thing. No, that's Cambo.
That's Cambo. It's a completely different form
of medicine. Yeah.
So when people say 5 or five MEODMT stances are, unless
they're unfamiliar, they're referring to the synthetic
version of the molecule of five MEODMT.
So if you work with someone, they say, oh, I facilitated 5 or
(23:40):
five meo or five meo DMT, they're usually talking about
the synthetic version of the medicine.
So that's the. So there's kind of like the key
differences. Bufo, Bufo is actually the the
real medicine or the correct, the main medicine.
Yeah, I mean it's like a Iboga and ibogaine.
(24:01):
Ibogaine is a derivative of Iboga, but Iboga is the mother
plant and so. Absolutely, yeah.
So ibogaine is an extract of theiboga root bark, right?
They extract the kind of like with flour, like cannabis,
right? You have the oil, they extract
all the potent alkaloids or, youknow, whatever into that oil.
So it's very pure. The reason why ibogaine centers
(24:22):
do this is because they need to know exactly how much they're
dosing per participant, right? If you're just taking iboga, I
mean, you're just basically, from my understanding, you just
take it until you're gone. That's very unpredictable.
Well, I just had AI just had a shaman, Iboga shaman on the last
episode. And she says that Iboga is one
of those plants that you don't, you could take a little bit or
(24:45):
you could take a lot. And usually it's going to figure
out, it's going to put you whereyou need to be.
Yeah. It chooses for you, but.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. It doses you no matter what, as
long as you take the medicine. So that makes a lot of sense, I
guess to keep the to keep it regulated and make sure people
are getting a a consistent dosage.
(25:06):
So how does that work in the DMT5 MEO Bufo world?
The Bufo is the the real deal, the whole experience.
The the I mean, are they the same effective experience?
I mean, I'll say this, right. So I, I worked at an IBM clinic
for about 9 months and an Amiolife Sciences and Amvio
works with five MEO synthetic. The synthetic version of the
(25:28):
molecule or the medicine? I've actually, it's funny enough
that whole time I was there, I only served that outside of the
center. I've never served the synthetic
version. I only worked with the towed
Venom. It's hard to gauge if there's a
difference, right? Because it could just be a
different experience for that participant, right?
(25:49):
Although there could be significant differences in that
journey, who's to say it could have been the same thing if it
was one or the other, right? But the feedback I have gotten
from quite a few people that have done both is they seem to
gravitate towards more more towards the toad venom.
Interesting. You know, hear different things,
(26:11):
right? But it's very hard to say.
I mean, I'll tell you this, all the times I've facilitated
using, using 5 any other molecule seems to do the same
beautiful work. So that's a plus.
Right when you, when you say toad venom, how do you go about
getting this? So you have you have to like go
find a bunch of toads and extract this venom from them.
(26:31):
And that's how I mean, like I, Ihave AI like to know the
process, you know, I, I think. Yeah, it's a beautiful process.
Is it? Yeah.
Oh yeah. I mean, if you're getting it
from the right ear, yeah. If you're sourcing it from
people, oh, go ahead. Sorry brother, sorry.
No worries, no worries, no worries.
I know there's a lag and I know your Internet there is not
(26:52):
amazing, but it's OK. No worries like the but the so
DMT is released from your entireor throughout your entire body
at creation right or conception and then it's released
throughout your body at the day you die, but the rest of the
time in your life it's inside ofevery living Organism, but it's
(27:13):
just traces of it. Is that right They.
Say they say, I mean, for whatever reason, this toad
carries the highest concentration from my
understanding to my knowledge, the highest concentration of
five MEO DMT and the way that I'm sure there's many different
ways that the medicine is sourced, right?
(27:35):
And I'm sure there's ways that are probably not, you know,
correct. You know what I mean?
Like, I'm sure there's people that are doing it very.
Yeah, exactly. So the beautiful way that it's
done. There's communities out there,
you know, they call themselves collectors, right?
They don't want to do anything beyond collecting the medicine.
And to them, that's a sacred process in itself.
(27:56):
So what they do is it's interesting, these these toes
hibernate a majority of the yearand usually they come out during
the monsoon, rainy seasons to mate and they capture these
toads. Now, just to give you an
example, right? Like if they capture the toad
and they don't relax that toad, when they squeeze the glands of
the venom, it could actually spray or trickle blood into that
(28:18):
venom, which you want to avoid. So when they capture the toad,
they actually hold and correct, like nurture it, kind of calm it
down before they begin the extraction process.
And all that is, is basically, you know, they capture the toad,
they'll have a piece of glass kind of above it and it has
glands all over its body that carries this venom.
It's a defense mechanism. And what they do is the largest
(28:39):
ones are on his throat. And they'll squeeze those glands
like a pimple onto this glass. So they'll do this throughout
the evening and then the following morning as the sun's
coming up, there's ceremony that's taking place and that
sun, as it's arising, it's drying that venom, once it's
fully dried, it's broken up and shipped out.
That's the process. Now where are these toads
(29:02):
located? Sonoran Desert, there's a high
population in the Hermosillo in the Sonoran Desert.
There's certain regions in Arizona as well, just not as
dense, right, But primarily the Sonoran Desert in Mexico.
And it's a certain type of toad,so you have to know what you're
looking for. You don't want to run around
(29:22):
picking up all the toads and. Yeah, Squeeze.
Them right like I. Feel bad for the person I.
Was trying to yeah, exactly. But as a public service
announcement, do not go out, capture your own toad and
squeeze it. Like, don't do that.
OK, There's pros at this stuff. So yeah.
How many of them does it take orhow much does how much does one
(29:43):
toad create of it? I mean, is it enough to provide
one person in the medicine or isit enough to provide 10 people
with medicine? I mean, what's kind of the
ratio? Yes, it's hard to say, right,
because they're all different sizes of well, right.
But you get a good significant amount from the glands, right.
I'd you know, there's dosing that's included as well, right.
(30:05):
So I'd say probably perhaps withone to three, I mean you're
looking at about maybe up to 10 people.
It really depends, right. Also another thing to keep in
mind is after these toads, they extract the venom, they don't
release them back into the wild.They'll actually contain them.
Apparently they they're able to replenish that venom fairly
quickly. So by the morning, you know,
(30:25):
they're good to go. So that way they don't release
them without having that venom restored too.
So just that one thing I wanted to note as well, which is
obviously what makes this process a bit, well, it makes it
beautiful, right? They're actually mindful of, you
know, what they're doing and notjust releasing the toad after
they've excreted the probably the largest glands on its body.
(30:45):
But yeah, to answer your question, I'd say, you know,
depending on the size of the toad, it varies, right?
It's hard to say, but just roughly probably those numbers.
That's crazy and it is cool to me because obviously being a
yoga teacher and somebody who believes in intention and
setting an intention and, you know, love and that kind of
thing. The fact that they use all that
(31:05):
and making sure that the processis is not only humane, but it's
beautiful. And the attraction of that, you
know, is something that I think is very important because like
you said, if you do it wrong, itcould end up badly.
And I could easily see where this could become a government
thing where they have toads in afactory and they're just
squeezing them out, you know, all day every day.
And they're making you know, some you know, they prostitute
(31:27):
the the industry of that. But no, it's.
Interesting. Yeah, hopefully never happened
that way. Yeah, Yeah.
But I'll say this, you know, it's funny, I have a a buddy of
mine who actually purchased the toads.
I think he purchased them or he,he got his hand on two of them
and they don't extract the same type of venom.
It's not potent. So I think it certainly has to
(31:49):
be in a natural habitat for it to be able to actually produce,
you know, the venom that is as potent as it's producing in its
natural habitat. Yeah.
I mean, he tried and just no success, which is interesting,
right? Yeah.
Yeah, you got to leave them where they are in order for it
to work because that's where they probably, that's how they
(32:09):
develop it is from whatever they're eating in that area, you
know, like. Exactly.
Sort of like in Chile, they havethe best honey in the world
because you guys have those plants down there that taste
amazing and the bees love them. So the honey tastes so good.
I've never had honey in my life that was better than in Chile.
Matter of fact, I wanted, I wanted to import honey to
America from Chile. And I was like, we can make so
(32:31):
much money with this too, all because of these flowers that
Chile has that the bees love. So I guess kind of thing.
So the the the process then became obviously a medicine, but
you decided to become a facilitator.
Yeah, like you decided to help. And obviously I've helped
(32:51):
probably a few people. How many people would you say
have a over clarity? I mean, during my time at the
Ibn clinic, you know, I was, I spent nine months roughly down
there. I was a facilitator for one of
the centers which received about6 people per week.
And then, you know, in time I facilitated at 2, two of their
(33:14):
centers and the other house alsoor the other center also
received about 6 people, six people per week.
And then occasionally, you know,I was covering here and there
that a detox house or center as well.
So occasionally I'd get, you know, asked to facilitate there.
And then on top of the retreats that I'm doing, you know, I'd,
(33:36):
I'd certainly say over 1000 at this point.
I mean, just overall, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, there's, it's certainly over 1000 at this point.
So quite a bit of field experience, you know, and I, and
I credit it really to Ambio, Ambio Life Sciences.
When I was down there, I, I acquired a lot of knowledge
(33:57):
absolutely and facilitate. Is the top notch one.
Got it. So Ambio is the one that people
would want to go to there if they had to experience or wanted
to experience the ibogaine and the five Meo, right?
They do both. Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, just their approach, I mean, hands down I believe is
(34:17):
top notch, right. I mean, you're doing a full
medical analysis and screening prior to even going.
You're offering, you're getting preparation work, integration
work after the nurturing care provided during your time down
there. I'm very familiar with the
program. And I mean, I think what's most
important for because as you were alluding to earlier, right,
there's a lot of people, especially, you know, Ambio has
does a lot of work with Veteran Solutions, the organization in
(34:40):
that sense that provides grants for special forces veterans.
A lot of these recipients that were coming down, these
participants that were coming down have no experience even
smoking a cigarette, right? So I think what's very important
is in these spaces such as the Ambio provides, is you have to
have that quality of comfort andsafety.
Without that, you don't have anything, right?
(35:01):
You're going to have a lot of unhappy people, right?
So when you're able to provide that nurturing, comforting
safety, it allows someone to really just be more at an ease,
regardless of the emotions that are stimulated going into an
experience such as Ibogaine and five.
But having that as a, you know, in your corner is really helpful
and supportive for these people that are coming down.
(35:23):
So is there after 1000 people orplus is there any danger to
doing this? Is there anything that people
like a warning label should be put on this whole entire process
or I know when I interviewed Sarah Yardley, who's the Iboga
shaman, she said, you know, she runs the thorough EE GE KG blood
(35:43):
work work up panel. She requires the whole thing
prior to coming in. Is that something that you have
to do with Bufo? As expected with Ivy gain
because it's a lot more delicatewith the heart, right?
With Bufo, I believe it's a verysafe medicine.
Just as with anything, there's contraindications to look out
for such as SSR is certain stimulants like Adderall, things
(36:04):
of that nature. But yeah, every person that I
work with undergoes a complete like onboarding and screening.
Also, there's a full registration process that covers
a a variety of different questions related to health
conditions and, you know, prescription medications.
And then, you know, participantsare provided like tapering
schedules per medications that are contraindicating with five
ineo DMT. Yeah, I believe it's a very safe
(36:27):
thing to do, much safer than a lot of things that people are
able to do. Right.
And covering these grounds, I think it's, yeah, covering these
grounds is essential. Certainly, certainly safer than
the the hydrocodone or whatever you're taking for your.
Safer the hydrocodone. Probably safer than alcohol.
Honestly, probably safer than alcohol.
(36:48):
I mean, there's contraindications with alcohol
too, right? There's contraindications with
Advil, Tylenol, like all of it, right?
Just because there's a contraindication doesn't mean
that that it's necessarily a badthing.
It's like, hey, we got to give a, some guidance and preparation
prior to the person having this experience.
And you know, there's not so much research with five in the
old with Bufo as there is other modalities.
(37:08):
There has been studies done, certainly significant
improvements in mental health disorders or symptoms such as
anxiety, depression and things of that nature.
But I do believe that there's something very strongly to
consider when it comes to its effectiveness and dealing with
antidepressants because I see ittime and time again.
I work with a lot of veterans, alot of first responders that are
(37:29):
taking SSR is we provide a tapering schedule for them and
they arrive to the ceremony or to the gathering, you know,
following that tapering guideline.
And it happens so frequently that they don't go back on to
those SSR is. So I do believe there's
something that's there that needs to be studied when it
comes to dual foe or five meo. Yeah, it seems to me that I
(37:53):
began is getting a lot of popularity and it's actually
being money's being put into it in Arizona and Texas to do
research about what does. Obviously we all know that
psilocybin is making a wave and everybody's kind of
understanding that that can helpa lot of veterans.
And obviously you know that I have my nonprofit vets to yoga,
which my whole passion is stopping the 22 a day.
(38:14):
So getting rid of this suicide epidemic.
But it's more 44 people a day soldiers today, because when you
take into account the slow killing process of alcoholism
and drugs, it's a lot bigger number, right?
So we've got to figure out how to stop all of that, not just a
piece of it. And I think that ibogaine is
getting a lot of attention. Psilocybin's coming along
(38:35):
nicely. We finally getting somewhere
with THC. Do you think that Bufo will be
the next one that people will start looking into to see as a
healing modality? I mean, it needs to be at least
acknowledged. I believe it needs to be brought
up, certainly. Should be.
I don't see how it hasn't yet. It certainly should be.
I mean, it's certainly very profound.
(38:57):
I mean, excuse me. Outside of it being a very
profound and, you know, experience and whatever's
happening in terms of like, well, we're able to comprehend
it. Like, yeah, significant
improvements and anxiety, depression.
But I I believe truly it goes sofar beyond that, just like the
certain like unknown mysteries when it comes to what actually
is taking place in the brain fully.
When someone does Ivy game, I mean complete, it's known that
(39:19):
it has immense effect in dealingwith TBI, traumatic brain
injury, you know, entirely reversing symptoms at times, if
not entirely about 8090%. You know, I believe the
Stanford's studies that were done with amnio life sciences
proved that, but also its effectiveness in dealing with
opiates, right? So yeah, when it comes to
beautiful, I don't see how it's not getting more attention
(39:40):
because I think all these modalities play a, a very
beautiful role in the overall like comprehensive entirety of
like someone's ability to fully heal, right.
So I think they're all have a beautiful, you know, place in
that process. No, I think I, I agree with you
100%. I actually have the design and
plan of the program that we needto implement to end veteran
(40:03):
suicide when it involves every single one of the modalities
because like you said, one's great for addiction and hands
down the best thing for addiction and that Ibogaine or
Iboga and then you've got. Bufo, which is for traumatic
brain injuries or for PTSD and that kind of thing, which could
be the solution there, you know,But if we've got all these
(40:24):
soldiers coming back, they're going to have different issues,
so they're going to need to go down different paths for
healing. So I've kind of designed that
process where you evaluate them and figure out the game plan
ahead of time to make sure that they don't go down the wrong
process and you know, they don'thave an addiction, they have a
brain injury and then they're doing, you know, Bufo, no, no,
(40:44):
no, that's the wrong category. We need to make sure they're
going in the right places. I think that's amazing.
That's got. And I think it's very.
Important to make it happen. Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's very important too, like because not everyone's
called to a specific one, right,Like, but I think it's important
to, you know, the people who arecalled to work with these
(41:05):
medicines, like, you know, having the access to do the one
that they feel called to. And I believe that opens the
door after, because chances are they become a believer after,
right? And then they start considering
other modalities that can be very effective, you know, for
them personally. So yeah, they should all be
available. They're all, you know,
absolutely beautiful. Certainly some work and
(41:26):
challenges that come with him, but yeah.
Yeah, exactly. It's not just all done.
Once you leave there, you're notlike all of a sudden cured for
life, right? Yeah, yeah, it's the hard truth
for sure. Well, that's where that's where
the I integrate the yoga, the meditation and the breath work
and the things that I do as partof the healing process for, for
(41:50):
your for veterans is because I know that they plant medicine,
you know, it's powerful, but you've got to come back and
you've also got to make some real changes within yourself.
You know, you've got to do some things differently.
And I think so many people don'tdo that.
They don't put in the work. And that's why it's like, you
know, we've got to lay it out fundamentally to where it's
(42:10):
like, OK, now you're going to start your day with meditation,
then we're going to do a yoga practice and then we're going to
go into some physical training. You know what I mean?
Like re redesign the lifestyle. And so it's a it's a process.
I think it's something that we all got to put together and make
it work. But So what would you say like
is we're all final finale, grandfinale statement about Bufo and
(42:36):
what you do and what Oh, wait, hold on.
Wait, what's your company name? The organization I have is Amor
Fati. Yeah.
So basically my time down in Mexico.
What ended up happening? I love that.
I know, it's such a what? Are the there it is there it is.
Is that? Yeah, amazing.
(42:56):
So I'm repping. It's amazing repping your
company every. Day.
Yeah, I love it. I got to tag you now.
Copyright. Yeah.
So the motive for that me establishing that organization
is, you know, I was working downat Ambio week to week.
You meet people from all over the states, right?
And being the on site host, the guy that's supporting the group
(43:18):
throughout the week, you really start establishing bonds with
the people that are coming through.
You know, unfortunately ibogaineis not the cheapest thing to do
at the moment, right? I mean there's efforts being
made to change that, but at the moment it's still very
expensive. So meeting people week after
week that sit with ibogaine to sit with five and you know, for
whatever reason, people really gravitated towards 5 and, you
(43:40):
know, towards BUFO. And it seems to be a medicine
that people for management reasons, you know, there's
certainly time in between, but that they, they feel very
therapeutic benefit and revisiting.
So what ended up happening is, you know, meeting all these
people from all over the stage. Eventually I started getting
invitations to travel because, you know, their friend who can't
(44:01):
afford to go down to Mexico or you know, they feel that their
wife could benefit and they're seeing all the changes are
taking place with that participant or that person,
right? So eventually I started
travelling and just continue to grow.
And I was balancing both for quite some time working at the
Ivy Game clinic and then doing this travelling, facilitating
these retreats offering Bufo andit continued to grow and, and it
(44:25):
became difficult to balance. So I decided to, you know, have
a deep love for facilitating Bufo.
So I decided to go that route for a variety of different
reasons as well, and then it wasthe motive for me to establish
that organization, to legitimizethe practice in the States.
Wow. Yeah, putting it together like
that has got to be a lot of work, too.
I mean, it's kind of going against the grain, right?
(44:48):
Pharmaceutical world doesn't want that to happen.
They don't want to cure. People want people dependent,
which you are for many years. Yeah, she's on the other side of
it. Yeah.
I was on the other side of it for a long, long time, man, for
a long time. And there wasn't a hand, a hand
extended to me during that time,right?
Like it, it was, you know, it, it's funny the way it works.
(45:08):
It's almost they want to keep you in it.
What's offered in in the States to, you know, pharmacy,
pharmaceutical companies, I mean, the same people that are
making the opiates are making the Suboxone.
And then essentially you're trading one thing for another
and then you're still wrapped upin the Suboxone, right?
And then you'll go back to opiates.
And I mean, it's a vicious cycleI could share all about, but we
could, you know, yeah. Which to me it's crazy because,
(45:31):
you know, curing people with these, with these healing
medicines, there's we're still never going to run out of people
to heal. Like that's never going to be a
thing. It's always going to be more
people that are going to get broken.
So I don't understand keeping them as a patient forever and
making all that money and then, you know, like, why not heal
them? We'll get a whole nother batch
of broken people. Don't worry, the military
(45:52):
produces them the loads, you know, So to me that would be a
more effective and more efficient way to get things
going. And that's kind of part of the
game plan is right, is to get these guys before they get back
and then put them through an evaluation so we know what they
need treatment wise. And then we run them through the
program, prepare them for civilian life, heal them, get
them ready. And then we get them out in the
(46:13):
community and we give them sponsors like a, a, a somewhere
that, you know, someone in the community who's been through it
or a veteran that's already beentrained or mental health care,
whatever it is somebody. But also we need to establish
little communities in every state for veterans that they can
go to anytime they need to and just stay there, talk to people,
have community. Cause community and environment
(46:35):
is such a huge part of healing. And if you're isolated?
It's essential. It's essential, yeah.
Yeah, which is what you learn about jiu jitsu.
Jiu jitsu is very similar. Such a amazing community of
people. You know, if you do jiu jitsu,
it's it's sort of like CrossFit.CrossFit.
You know how you know if somebody does CrossFit, don't
worry. About that, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(46:58):
I have a good friend of mine whocompeted.
In the games. Yeah.
He, oh, you know, a Games athlete, huh?
Yeah, yeah. One of my good friends that I
grew up with, he competed and I think it was 2016 CrossFit
Games, man, he told me. He got to the point where he was
just in it for survival. It was rough.
(47:18):
I mean, it's a certainly a challenging sport.
I mean, the sport of fitness, I guess.
So that's why. But you know, yoga's pretty
challenging for people as well. I, I tell, I tell people I
meditate 2 hours a day and they're like, I can't meditate
for two minutes. And I'm like, well, guess what?
You need it more than anyone like this.
They didn't wake up. Two hour meditations.
(47:40):
It took many years to get to that, you know, And this this
November, I get to go out to India and train with my, my, my
Swami and become a grandmaster of meditation.
So I think that's a really cool thing to, to continuously
progress on getting more knowledge and more information.
It's not about the titles, it's about the experiences that you
can go through to get the information, the knowledge that
(48:02):
you need to help other people. Correct.
Yeah, absolutely. So that's well, Juan, I
appreciate you being last minutewith me, man.
I'm glad to have you on the show.
It was very special. I've learned a ton, so we'll
definitely do it again. I'll see you soon, no doubt.
Sounds good, brother. Hey, thank you.
Have a wonderful day. You too.
(48:24):
You too.
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