EP426: David Romero - The Space Between Knowing and Becoming

In this episode of Conversations with Kris, David Romero takes us deep into the transformative world of ceremony, medicine work, and self-discovery.

Kris and David explore the power of intentionally sitting with yourself — breaking old patterns, confronting personal truths, and finding healing in unexpected ways. This isn’t about quick fixes or spiritual shortcuts; it’s about surrender, presence, and the willingness to look within when the world feels loud and overwhelming.

David shares personal insights on holding space for others, what ceremony has taught him about connection and consciousness, and why the real work begins after the ceremony ends. If you’ve ever felt called to grow, heal, or expand beyond your comfort zone, this episode is a must-listen.

FOLLOW FOR MORE:

@hello.davidromero

https://www.psychedelicstransdiagnostictherapeutics.com/

@kristopherpace

www.kristopherpace.com

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
I am positively Chris Pace and you are actively listening to
conversation with Chris. All right, guys, here we go
again. This one's going to be amazing.
I am beside myself with excitement to introduce you to
this next guest. I'd like to be able to break
down his background, but I'm going to let him do that for me
because this is a lot of information to cover.

(00:33):
So David Romero is, well, let's just say he's guy who's been
through a lot of cool stuff and done a lot of great things for
everyone out there and has some great information.
So you guys are going to want tohear this.
David, how are you today? I'm doing great.
Thank you so much, Chris for having me on your podcast, man.
I really appreciate it. No, thank you for taking time

(00:53):
out and namaste my brother. Namaste.
So let's get to talking, man. Tell me the big macro view of
your life, and then let's go back and dissect it and break it
down into pieces. Absolutely.
I would say the big macro. The big macro would be service
for others. And a lot of the work is

(01:17):
surrounded around heart focused work and really working from the
heart and, you know, taking a big wide scoop of everything.
And we can take it apart in a little bit, but I'll make it
kind of brief for those that arelistening.
My background grew up in a military family.
My mom was a drug and alcoholic psychologist in the Navy

(01:40):
commander. My biological father was a Navy
diver. My stepfather was a data analyst
in the Navy and my brother was aNavy SEAL.
I, I was the Air Force guy. There was like, yeah, Navy,
great, awesome. I want to go over the Air Force.
But in truth, it was because I Iapplied to different service
academies and while I was accepted to all three of them,

(02:04):
the Air Force to have the Olympic Training center in
Colorado Springs. I love the coach there, coach,
Coach Mark Stanforth. And so I end up joining in the
military when I was 18 years old, going to the Air Force
Academy. And to be honest with you, I
didn't know what I wanted to do quite yet.
I just knew that I was going to be a great education.
I knew I wanted to be a runner. I knew I wanted to try to at

(02:26):
least attempt to get to the Olympic trials and go in that
direction with my running careerbecause I had a successful high
school career and you know, go from there.
After track both it was 3 sports, cross country, indoor
and then outdoor track. It was actually a.

(02:48):
Runner in high school also. You wouldn't believe it by
looking at me now, but I was. A cross country.
And tracks. I had the mile record in a 432
and I ran. Nice.
And I was like a what? It was like 16, just under 16
minutes for the 5K, Yeah. That's.
Awesome man. Now I'm 61235, so if I run

(03:09):
there's a problem. I know, man.
I, I, I, I jog now. I don't, I don't know about
running anymore. You know, as long as both feet
are off the ground, it's technically running.
So I try to do that technically.Feed walking's in the future.
Yeah, right. Race walking his cheeks.
Swing those hips. Yeah, well, I'm 6 foot 2 and my

(03:33):
running weight at the time was 140 a 143 lbs.
So, you know, it's just, yeah, you get blown away in the wind
on a strong day. But my degree focus was in
biology with some chemistry. And then anybody who graduates
from the Academy gets a degree in some kind of science degree.

(03:54):
So there's an engineering background there too.
And, you know, I went into the service and I was supposed to be
an aircraft maintenance officer,but I got picked up to what
would be called the Golden. It's called the Golden 16
program, where they keep 16 Air Force second Lieutenant.

(04:17):
And you stay there. You're a coach, you train, you
teach. Awesome.
You teach physical education. So I got to teach golf and
tennis and volleyball. It's my very first assignment.
It was the best. It really wasn't the best.
The. Great thing about the Air Force,
right? You could be in the Air Force or
like join the band. Yeah, it, it, it was, it was

(04:40):
phenomenal, man. And then after my first
assignment, you know, I, I wanted to go into acquisitions
program management, they changedmy AFSC, which is your specialty
code TO63A. So I got sent out to Vandenberg
Air Force Base near Santa Barbara, which was like awesome,
because I'm from California. So got to spend about three

(05:03):
years there launching rockets, satellites and a bunch of, you
know, multi, multi, $1,000,000 space that that's in the space.
And it was fun, man. It was really interesting.
Well, that's one of the big transitions from PE coach to our
opting rockets in space. I mean, you know, they love the

(05:24):
Air Force, right? Because the variety I was a 2
PO, I was a 2 PO. So I calibrated all the
electronic equipment and, you know, took care of the
everything from guided missile systems to to radar detectors,
You know, they all have to be kept into specs and.
So. Yeah, it was really cool, but it
was a lot of pressure because you know, if you're a .00001

(05:47):
off, you can land a missile in the wrong country.
Totally, 100 percent, 100%. You were working on Pope, right?
Was it Pope space? No, I wish because I actually
asked for all East Coast bases and they sent me to Okinawa.
Okay. So I was there for three years.
I was like, that's why they callit a dream sheet.
I guess it's. It's the Far East.

(06:07):
Exactly. I got to be more specific.
Next step. Shame on me, I didn't ask the
right question. So then after you lost rockets
into space, what was the next step?
You know, I got, I, I moved downto LA because there's an LA Air
Force Base there, which is surprising because most Air
Force bases have a golf course and this one did not.

(06:29):
So. That counts as physical exercise
for us, so. Yeah, yeah.
But you know, I, I did 1 deployment down to Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba, which was basically, you know, it was really
enjoyable. I, I, I was glad that I went,
but I would it's hard to call that a quote UN quote deployment

(06:50):
when you're in the middle of theCaribbean, but you don't
usually. Hear and and enjoyable in the
same. Sense I know, right, I know I
was the I had a great job. I was the air officer commander
on base and got to, you know, beI have oversight over what was
coming in and what was going out.

(07:11):
And it was it was a fascinating introduction into how joint task
force works together because it was the Marines, Navy, Army and
the Air Force all working together.
So that was interesting. But, you know, when I went into
the military, I wasn't quite sure what I really wanted to do,
do for a job. It was like an opportunity for

(07:32):
growth. And it was an opportunity for
leadership and an opportunity for to kind of wrap my head
around, well, what does David really want?
And I remember a Colonel Jordan was his name.
He walked in and we were in a skiff, which is a secured
facility. We're underground.
And he brings us all together. And he's like, you know, if
you're not thinking about launching rockets every day and

(07:55):
putting things into space, then,you know, you really may want to
consider finding another career field because I want people that
just want to do that. And he wasn't talking to me
specifically, but I was like, all right, this is my out.
This is my opportunity. So yeah.
Well, yeah, in cases like that, like looking around like did I

(08:17):
press my uniform right? Like that's.
True. I leave my cover on like.
Exactly what am I doing here? So I, I, I got out in O 8 and
found this awesome junior military officer recruiting
company that positioned people into more corporate jobs.

(08:39):
And I got picked up with a company called ANS Advanced
Neuromodulation Systems. And it was cool 'cause you got
to go into surgery as a medical device company, You go into
surgeries, you implant this device, people's pain goes away.
And I mean, it was really, I mean, it's quite fascinating
going from this whole military career, which I was doing
engineering in and everything, into more of a career that I

(09:02):
wanted to be in with an understanding of the human body,
Physiology, biology, and on top of that have some engineering
components applied to it too. Yeah, after it's implanted to
make sure it's correct. Yeah, it's basically an
internally planted 10s unit for those out there.
A 10S units of transcutaneous electronic nerve stimulator, and

(09:26):
you typically use that for a 10Sunit is placed on the outside of
the skin, stimulates nerves, nerve growth, helps muscles
move, helps a little bit with chronic pain, causes this thing
called what's referred to as paresthesia.
But with this device, we would implant it into a person, we'd
trial it for a couple weeks and then we'd take it out.

(09:46):
Then we put the whole system in if we got at least 50% pain
reduction. Wow.
And it was a really fascinating device and it, it, it helped me
cut my teeth on the world of understanding orthopedic spine
and understanding pain management.
And I worked in that career field for in that particular job

(10:08):
position for four years. We got bought by a company
called Thank You Medical, which is then got bought by Abbott
Medical. But after about four years was
already feeling burnout. You know, doing 70 plus hours a
week, always on the road. Sell, sell, sell.
You know, there's a saying. Healthcare is a business,

(10:32):
medicine is a science and healing is an art.
And it was hard, brother, like watching just the turnover of
people coming in and out pain management medications that are
given out come back in three months when your pain meds are
done, you know, and and we'll reassess you and people that are
on these drugs for years and years and years.

(10:54):
And this was, by the way, in themiddle of the time during the
whole Purdue Pharmaceutical lawsuit where Purdue
Pharmaceuticals, who created Oxycontin, they were putting
additives inside of it. Now we have a huge opiate
problem across the board in the United States, but I I in.

(11:18):
The state that encouraged that the most, I think.
Yeah, man. A pill factory down here.
Everybody was coming to Florida to get there.
Yeah, 100%, man, it was bad. And, and there's still issues
with it, but yeah, there was, there was shops popping up on
every corner, just passing thosepills out.
And you know, I had started yogawhen I was in 2010, a dear

(11:44):
friend of mine brought me into ayoga class and that kind of
piqued my interest because I wasstressed out.
I was also struggling a little bit with addiction, alcohol and
some other things. And she was, I would say, the
catalyst for my yoga journey because prior to all of that, I
was like, yeah, no yoga's, yoga's for, for chicks.

(12:06):
I mean, I'm not trying to be chauvinistic when I say that,
but that was the mindset I had at the time was like, yeah, no
yoga's, yoga's for and feminine men and things like that.
But that was a. To support that statement, I had
Matt Wiz Buckley, I don't know if you know him or not, but he's
the owner and founder of No Fallen Heroes Foundation.

(12:27):
He was a Top Gun pilot and he found yoga before he found
Abigain and then that changed his whole life.
Anyway, that's a long podcast, but what he said to me on his on
his interview or podcast of me, he goes, man, when I heard
somebody asked me to go to yoga,I said if I saw myself in the
yoga class I'd kick my own ass. Yeah, yeah.
He's like Top Gun pilot, so yoga, come on.

(12:49):
So I totally get it. I mean, the stigma is there,
right? In America, at least.
Totally, totally. And I, I was blessed because,
well, we'll get to the yoga piece in a minute.
I'll, I'll just kind of cover the rap sheet piece of this, but
I was blessed because one of thephysicians I worked with
incredible doctor, his name's Doctor Alexander Herzl.

(13:09):
He had several clinics in LA. He brought me under his wing.
I worked for him. We built surgery centers
together. We took great pair of patients.
And when it was time for me to leave the company, I knew at
that time I, I really wanted to be a yoga teacher.
I was like, it's a big jump and it's a big trust in God, but I
think I can do, I know I can do this.

(13:32):
I know I can do this and I did 500 hours, 200 hours and a 300
hours. Then I did another 250 at
another organization and I started taking teacher
trainings. I got my certifications and then
started teaching in 2014. And then the rest is just been
this pretty incredible ride. You know, I, you know, you go

(13:56):
into, you go into yoga with I think sort of an, a mindset of
your instructor at the time, 'cause that's all you know.
And then you take your trainingsand you take all these other
teachers and you realize that yoga is way more than just this
physical movement of body and this calisthenics in a hot room

(14:17):
or whatever it may be. But obviously that takes time to
understand. I, I was really blessed at the
time too. Everything works out,
synchronicity and everything. I know you understand that, but
a lady was leaving as I was coming in and she used to be a
student of mine coming to my yoga class and she was working
at USC and she say, hey, there'san open position, I think you

(14:38):
should apply for it. And I was like USC, hell yeah,
I'm going to apply for that. And I applied for it and
fortunately I got it. They brought me on part time.
I was able to teach for about 5 years there.
Stress management and yoga, yogaphilosophy, often a practice to
undergrads and you know that segued into working in the

(15:04):
mental health space and helping people understand and mental
health centers the importance ofyoga and mindfulness and sound
baths. And you know, all the little
things you pick up along the waythat you feel are important in
the process because it's not just one thing, it's a whole
multitude of things. And it's a lifestyle you end up
developing. And that also my time at USC was

(15:27):
my first introduction to the plant medicine space and working
with plant medicine, specifically psilocybin and
ayahuasca. I dabbled in it prior to that,
but never really, especially ayahuasca, never really
understood it. And man, after that, my life
changed. It changed for the better.
Not that it was in a bad place, but it definitely helped me see

(15:50):
a lot of my shadows and roadblocks and obstacles.
And now I feel it is my, I don'twant to necessary duty, but I've
that that word does come up. But I feel like it's a, it's the
most responsible thing for me todo this lifetime to talk about
these types of medicines in the highest kind of way, in the in

(16:10):
the healthiest kind of way, in the supportive kind of way.
So now my life is still all about teaching yoga.
I teach a lot of integrative work and helping people
understand, especially at a professional level, how to work
with these types of medicine. It's not just take this and you

(16:31):
know, play around with it. It is a work with it, with
intention. And I'm here to help coach you,
guide and facilitate how that can be done in a conducive way.
And you know, I'm often Paul involved with the coming home
project, which is a beautiful non profit organization that
focuses on the special operationforces guys and women.
And you know, we we work with people all across the board,

(16:57):
first responders and you know, fire firefighters, paramedics,
police officers, swat everythingand change changes their life,
man. It helps them unpack all this
stuff. So yeah, thank you for
listening. I know that was kind of kind of
a lot to say in a little bit, but thank you.
Now that's a great summary and honestly, you know, obviously we

(17:18):
align in a lot of ways and even more so now that we've that I
understand your story better because you know, cross country
Air Force, you know, into finding a solution for me with
my injuries. So I know a lot about the body
and what it was and how it worked because of the fact that
I had gone, I got to a point where I was 30 years old after I

(17:40):
had suffered this TBI in the military, which caused my
military career to come to an end basically after being
accepted into an officer commissioning program
scholarship program. So I went and listed, got a
scholarship program because of golf.
Really, because I played with the bass commander and he signed
off. Golf's very important in the
military. Golf's very important period.

(18:03):
And so it went back to school atUSC.
The other one, yeah. You know, the the one that's
important because without our cocks, you wouldn't need your
Trojans. That's right, Gamecocks.
We used to have shirts that saidthat I guess USC played USC one
time. So, you know, was that USC

(18:23):
Similarly, But and then as I wasgoing through the VA and they
had me on 11 different medications at once, I didn't
know if I was coming or going. And I went and saw a
psychiatrist and he told me I was a hopeless case and then I'd
probably be dead in six months. Or.
And so I was like, man, and at the same time I'm seeing a
neurosurgeon about my neck and he's going, you need, you need

(18:46):
to have the disc replaced with rubber discs and a ball bearing.
And I'm like, look, dude, I've never heard anybody tell me that
they had, they're glad they had neck surgery.
You know what? I.
Mean right, right, right. I'm going to trust that that's
going to hold up my head. So I was like, that's my other
alternative. And then he was like core
strength and mobility could buy you five years and who knows

(19:06):
what technology will change. So I googled it, found yoga.
Same time that doctor told me that I was hopeless case.
I quit taking all the meds that they had me on, which was like
Depakote, Lexapro, clonazepam. And I mean, you talk about like.
All of them. I had, but they kept diagnosing
me with anything they could comeup with and giving me more
medication. So they were just treating

(19:27):
symptoms or side effects of the other medications.
And so I was like, can we get back to grassroots?
Anyway, that doctor got lit on fire by another veteran, which
it was really terrible, but alsoI guess he didn't take the news
as well. Like literally lit on fire.
Like literally somebody walked in and literally lighter flew
into him and threw a match and let him on fire.

(19:47):
Oh my God, it was crazy. And so then I googled # yoga.
I dedicated myself to it for 90 days, what I said, and if it
helped, I'd stay with it. Well, here I am, 20 years.
Right on, right on. Never had neck surgery, never
went back to the medications, and I've moved all the way to
grandmaster and have, you know, just been.
Assigned to build the first everOlympic yoga team, which I'm

(20:10):
hoping you're going to help me with, Yeah.
We'd love to help support. Yeah, I've.
Got a nonprofit now called VestiYoga, which is obviously 100%
built around the idea that we can end right now.
I have the plan, the solution toend veteran suicide immediately
and the Coming Home project sounds like it's a big part of
that. It's just capturing before they

(20:30):
leave, diagnosing and figuring out what method they need for
healing, and then running them through a program that is
specifically designed for them but integrates plant medicine
with yoga and holistic modalities.
So chiropractic, massage, that kind of thing.
And then we sponsor them with someone in the local community
who's already a vet, so they have a friend there.

(20:51):
But I also think there needs to be the military bases that have
closed down in all states. We should turn those into
veteran villages where vets are always welcome.
They're always welcome any 24 hours, seven days a week.
They can come and they can have a hot meal and a place to sleep
and some other vets to be around.
And, you know, it's just going to be a collective effort on the
nonprofit's parts to basically fix this problem and make the

(21:13):
solution happen. So I've been petitioning like,
I'm like, I'm on Craigslist every time.
The Secretary Collins post something I'm like I have the
solution to end veteran suicide Contact me if interested.
It's so funny because it's like all caps.
I'm like, you'll call me so they.
Keep putting it out there. Keep putting it out.

(21:35):
There, that's right. And then so the so similar lines
for sure, but definitely you have an intense amount of
knowledge. So I'd love to like go back and
see more about how that all happened and where you really
kind of made those big swings. I mean, you kind of mentioned
that out in California, which seems like everything kept
bringing you back out to Cali, Southern Cali is that.
Fair. Yeah.

(21:56):
Yeah. I, I it is.
And if I was to reflect upon it,I think that that's been my
comfort zone. We're as human beings.
We are creatures of comfort, andwe like what's familiar.
And California was a place of familiarity for me.
And you know, yeah. Unfortunately, we go to what's
comfortable, whether or not it'shealthy or unhealthy.

(22:19):
Yes. That's the problem is that
people will go back to bad situations just as easily.
But I, I, you know, when you're in the military, there's a
bubble of protection that is there, some call it the UCMJ,
but there's, but there's a, there's a, a difference.

(22:40):
There's just there's a bubble ofprotection there.
There's a, the mindset is slightly different.
I think that you're aware of that Anybody who's been in the
military has transitioned to civilian life's different.
It's not an above or below. It's not a better than or worse
than. It's just a difference.
And when you get out of the military, you're just kind of
left like, well, where is the support structure in place?

(23:02):
Because you were so used to having that and, and then as you
integrate into, you know, that particular world, the laws and
structures and things are changed and no one's looking
over your shoulder all the time.No one you're, there's not a
buddy system in place. There's not a that, that kind of
brotherhood or sisterhood. There's more of a everyone's out

(23:24):
there for themselves. Now, don't get me wrong.
I mean, when people are jockeying for ranks and things
like that, things can get kind of dicey too.
But overall, you know, there's abrotherhood in a family type
environment. So when you get pulled out of
that by choice too, in my case, it's like, well, well, what's
next? And, and, and where do I go from

(23:46):
here? Because there's no more bumpers
or brakes, right? And.
And you have I'd your own direction for the first time in
your life. No one's telling you how to live
and what to do, and you're. Correct.
I got a directions on. My own Plus, if you went from
high school into the military, you've never paid bills, you
never check, you've never gottena job or had to apply for a job.

(24:07):
So you're completely ill prepared for society, but also
you're alone and isolated because now you nobody speaks
your language. Because honestly, in the
military, we all speak a different language.
It's just slightly different. But it's enough that we can't
and we can't talk about, most ofus can't talk about what we did.
We don't want to do about what we did.
So I mean, it's the first perfect recipe for causing

(24:28):
people to hide or disappear. Right.
And I will say this, while there's programs that the
military has, the acceptability for self destruction is also
there on base. And what I'm talking about is
drinking and alcohol and and a lot of the work that I do and I,

(24:51):
and there's a big piece of this,which is yoga.
And we can talk about our understanding of yoga in the
West too, because I think that most people's understanding of
the West is more of just the calisthenics and movement side
and it takes many years to understand that.
It is so, so, so much deeper. You're just skimming the surface
when you're talking about yoga and physical Athena.

(25:11):
However, I also realize yoga meets people where they're at.
And so there's absolutely 0 judgement on where that
particular meeting point is. But I do know, for instance,
with a lot of military people, emotions are suppressed.
We don't talk about emotions. It's F your feelings, you know,
put it away for now. If you really need to unpack it

(25:33):
later, you can. But often times it's just going
on to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.
And I it's been my experience too, that people can use your
emotions against you or will look down upon you for
experiencing your feeling something, even though that is
completely part of the human experience and we're not just
robots and. Opportunities as well.

(25:57):
So you never tell anybody anything because it shows
weakness AB and you're making yourself vulnerable because
they'll disqualify you for any type of promotion or
opportunity, correct? They might just throw you out of
the. Military, right?
Yeah, you're too soft. Or whatever it is that may be
there. And I, I know for a fact, and
for the many, many hundreds of people that I've worked with in

(26:20):
this particular space, you know,on the military side, I say
hundreds, lots more outside of the more civilian side, but that
has been like the case. Everyone has said the same exact
thing. And so how long are we going to
continue doing that? And I understand mission
essential. I understand, you know,
excellence service before, oh man, I'm like blanking on it

(26:46):
right now. Integrity first, service before
self. That's something all we do, the
core values and all of that. I totally get that.
I love that. But the same time, when are you
gonna put your oxygen mask on? At what point is service before
self now harming A HEMSA, which is one of the first things that
we teach in yoga. At what point are you going to
see that you're serving from an empty cup and not a full cup?

(27:09):
And if you're serving from an empty cup, then everybody's
getting your bitters and, and and your your backwash and your
bottoms. You know what I mean?
Like we need to be shifting thatparadigm and how can we get our
individuals that are serving this country selfishly or how
can we get them to a level wherethey fully understand what it

(27:29):
means to serve from a full cup? Well, that's such a great
statement and I've got opportunity, hopefully I get
chosen for it, to build the a Wellness app for the VA, which
they recently put out and I submitted for.
And if I do, then I get to provide a Wellness app for the
veterans. But on top of that, I believe,
like you said, we need to be catching them in the military.

(27:49):
We need to be making the troops even healthier and stronger so
that they can better what they do.
So I stay on Macdill Air Force Base, which is also the
headquarters for all special operations for all the branches.
And I'm volunteering to teach meditation and yoga to the
special OPS groups there to hopefully get the opportunity to
show them how to replenish theirenergy and how to handle their

(28:12):
trauma and hopefully keep them stronger and healthier and
better. So that while they're
functioning in the military, they can be on point.
But also when they get out, theyknow what to do to be able to
help themselves as well as connect with the right people in
the VA and when the nonprofits that are out there for them.
So it's kind of like I'm, I'm 100% right on point with you.

(28:33):
I know exactly what you're saying and I agree completely.
Yeah, and, and I and I understand too, just as there is
this, if you look at like familydynamics and family systems,
there is this whole thing calledfamily trauma and generational
trauma. And I mean, the military has
generational trauma in it too, from the wars that we fought

(28:56):
through the, you know, duties and deployments that folks have
been on to, you know, what's in store for our future generation.
And we have to constantly, and not that we aren't, but we have
to constantly be learning from these previous engagement.
Like there is a backdraft that happens if we are not taking

(29:18):
care of these people. And I mean, there's over 70,000
homeless veterans sleeping on the street on a, on a nightly
basis. And that's from, I think it was
a June 24, 2024 consensus that'sabout a. 100,000 now and those
are my employees for the veteranvillages should my plan go into

(29:39):
place. But yeah, it's around 100,000
now. It's crazy.
And I'm I'm actually one of them.
Yeah. I lost my home due to
exploitation from a caregiver and no one's stepped up and
helped me out at all. So I mean.
Out of the way that the system is broken, needs to be repaired.
You know what I mean? It's sad that you know, if you

(29:59):
give your life for you volunteeryour life for the country, then
also at the same time when you come back and to to quote Whiz
again when he was on the show, he goes one minute I'm flying,
you know, fighter planes for theNavy as a Top Gun pilot.
And then as soon as I'm out of the military, now I'm a liar.
He's like, yeah, what? What?

(30:19):
Like we go and tell them what we're like?
Nope. Deny, deny, deny.
Right. OK.
Right. And it's.
Yeah. And it makes it, It can.
It can if we're not fully grounded and rooted, it can
drive a person crazy. It can make them question
themselves. And then they feel abandoned.
And the worst feeling of abandonment is feeling alone.
And when you feel alone, you feel chained.

(30:40):
And then that's when all of these self inflicting practices,
we just rely on what we've been taught.
And that's why I also, you know,yoga is so much of a mental
health practice. I mean, it's beautiful there.
Yes, you can create thousands ofdifferent forms with the human
body. And that in itself is a an

(31:01):
incredible feat and a gift. But can you sit still and hold
presence with somebody else? Can you hold your tongue long
enough and be in your heart and sit in that seat of compassion
and love? And if you can do that, then
that's just as much yoga. If you can be non reactive even

(31:22):
though when you feel angry bubbling anger bubbling up
inside of you and just sit with the feeling that is yoga just as
much as you know whatever a HalfMoon pose or a handstand or
anything else you do. Right, that's the the part that
we know that most people don't, that yoga is an 8 limb path.
The smallest and the most, the least discussed out of the true

(31:46):
8 limb path is the awesome path because it's meant to prepare
your body for meditation, not indiscomfort and distract it.
But that's what that's what the awesome portion is for.
And that's all that it really says.
Not awesome. Everything else, long
explanations, you know what I mean?
7 limbs are very much more detailed.

(32:08):
So I mean, that's the part that we really got to get that
message out there. And you're right, even my
podcast, this podcast is yoga old space and asking questions
that are truly genuine and honest.
And in your truth or Satya, the ultimate is what it's all about,
you know? And so people like, hey, you,
you're in a podcast host now. You're not doing a handstand, so
you're not doing yoga and. I'm like.

(32:29):
Well, for maybe to you that's how it appears, but you know, my
yoga practice on my map is something I do personally.
This is being in a different wayby highlighting and showcasing
people out there who are inspirational.
Yeah, yeah. And, and if I don't know about
you, but something that was important for me, I did go
through like a period of time too, from like 2014 to I think

(32:54):
the early 20 seventeens where it's like, well, how do I get my
name out there? I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to take half naked pictures of myself and post them
online on Instagram. And that's the way that I'm
going to get, you know, people are going to find out who I am
as a teacher, look what I can doand look at the poses I can
create. And I, I have a whole lot to say
about that. That could be in its own

(33:14):
podcast, you know? We could do a summer.
We'll lay that one out for later, OK?
You know, there there's definitely like some humility
going back and it's like, yeah, well, that was a phase, but but
I don't want that to necessarilyunder score all the work too
that took place behind the scenes because, well, yeah,

(33:35):
there was, you know, that that funness and you can show that
yoga gave me fun and interesting.
And you can take a body by by the time I was 36 years old, but
you can take a 36 year old body and you can increase
flexibility, you can increase strength, you can move it in all
sorts of dynamic ways even as weage.

(33:56):
You know, I don't, I don't do asmuch of that stuff.
Although when I was in Hawaii, Idid do some hand stands and I
videoed it. It was a lot of fun.
I was like, yeah, I remember this.
But I'll, I'll, I'll save this for my, for some other time.
We'll. We'll throw some hand stands out
in Oregon in a couple weeks whenwe're together.
Right, right. But I remember thinking to
myself the time like, if I'm going to be anybody in this, I

(34:18):
got to learn how to do this stuff.
And that's again, it's a naive, it's a naive mindset on what
yoga really is. But I had to go through it.
And I think everybody to a degree has to go to it, go
through it. And you learn pretty quickly as
you're well aware with injury. And then, you know, you know,

(34:41):
that sometimes like an imposter syndrome, they can start to show
up too, of, you know, who you are on camera on a photo versus
who you are in regular life. And I think that's what really
the yoga was begging me to focuson is who are you about who, who
is this person that's behind thecamera, not in front of the
camera? And it became with the plant

(35:02):
medicine work, it became very, very clear that it was not about
me, but like I feel so blessed and gifted to be in this
lifetime where I'm at right now with what I have.
We talk about Santoshia contentment and I feel so
content with where I am in my life and where I was in my life

(35:27):
at the time. I was up and down.
I was struggling in relationships.
I didn't know my head for my assat times.
It was. It was just big deal.
Yeah, yeah. So was it.
You said, you mentioned alcohol and that that became a thing for
you. Was a plant medicine the healing
factor in addition to yoga? Because the common theme that

(35:52):
I'm understanding from multiple guests is that they find yoga
and then that opens their mind to the idea of plant medicine.
And then they end up finding ibogaine or iboga or something,
ayahuasca or some other transformational medicine that
actually eliminates the addiction.
Yeah, iboga is 85% effective. One use an addiction

(36:14):
elimination. So was that a place for you?
Did you find something through that path and that's where you
were able to make the change? Yeah.
So a couple different things. One, I would say people are
medicine. People are definitely medicine.
And I had an individual that thought enough about me to say,
Hey, I think you should go to anayahuasca journey with where I

(36:38):
was in my yoga practice. And they felt that that would
breakthrough some some walls that I had had up.
And you know, when we are conditioned by the Western world
of treating people, that allopathic medicine model,
again, going back to that phrase, you know, Healthcare is
a business, medicine is a science, healing is an art.

(37:01):
We often times treat people as abell curve.
We put people inside of a box, and the one thing that yoga
taught me is that healing is an art and it's unique and
everybody's path is individual and different.
And in that, your path in the way that you're going to heal is
different from me because you'vehad so many different forms of

(37:21):
conditioning in your life, and I've had so many different forms
of conditioning. To think that it's just going to
be one thing that's going to make that work is not going to
happen. Biochemically, our chemistry is
different, fungi, our bodies aredifferent.
Bacterial wise, our bodies are different.
So we cannot keep treating people in the same way.
And I, I, I had actually met my wife at at the time we had, we

(37:48):
were friends and a little after all that my first Iowa
experience, we'd started gettinginto dating.
But she, she was definitely alsoa proponent in, in medicine for
me and helping me start to see myself and reflect back.
And it, it, it was yoga plus opening my mind up that, you

(38:10):
know, what I thought I knew, I didn't know.
And I needed to put my ego over here and which is always a
process, you know, the ego creeps in on on a regular basis.
But it was the combination of choosing to open my mind and
explore and get curious and start to do reading and

(38:31):
research. And, you know, I'm a big fan of
Ron Das. He spoke to my heart in so many
different ways. My mom was a devotee back in the
day and really loved and praisedhis work.
So I already had some deeper understandings of his analysis
on life and his experience with plant medicine sort of paved a

(38:51):
way for me to want to get curious about it too.
Because you don't just come up with these, you can I get it.
But in the Western world, you typically don't just come up
with these insights out of the blue.
There's some other thing out there that's supporting the the
inside and process. And man, when I started working
with psilocybin and started mushrooms, and when I started my

(39:13):
plant medicine journey with ayahuasca, it revealed all of
these different layers beneath the surface that I had been
struggling with. And as a result of that, it
became very clear for me and needed to start healing myself.
I was going out there trying to help other people, yet I hadn't

(39:33):
even done work really on myself.So what's, what sign or signal
does that send to people when wehaven't done the self work?
And we, we often times end up what would be referred to as
spiritual bypassing. And yeah.
And so I started doing some pretty hard work with these
medicines, going out to ceremonies on a fairly regular

(39:56):
basis and still teaching yoga. I mean, I was teaching, I think
at the time I was teaching upwards to 1820 public classes a
week. The most classes I think I was
taught in a week was something close to like 31 or 32.
It was nuts. But when you're I mean, but I
was hungry for it, like I wantedto like share what it was just I

(40:17):
was burnt. I was, I was super burnt out too
talking. About pouring from an empty cup.
Totally. Really giving so much to every
class every time you walk in there.
Oh yeah, you teach three classesin a day.
To me that's too many because yeah, empties your entire
container and I totally exhausted.
So 30 something classes. So that's just it.

(40:39):
Was nuts, man. It, it was nuts.
And that, that, that, that was private classes.
And then you're also living in LA and when you're first become
a yoga teacher in LA, it's like 25 thirty, $35.00.
So you're, I was going from making $250,000 a year to like
like how, how am I gonna pay my mortgage?

(41:02):
Yeah, exactly. You're like, I do want to help
people, but I also need a place to live, right?
Yeah. It's AI taught at Yoga Works out
there and a couple other studiosbefore Yoga Works went away.
And I was amazed that they charged $10,000 for you to go to
teach training, but then they pay their teachers 30 bucks a
class. I was.
Like, no, I know I still have gripes about that, but I've let

(41:23):
that go. But it's just like, really?
You want to value your instructors, yet you know, you
don't pay them very well. And you know, but hey, also the
organization fell apart as well too.
And so it is what it is. I it's just, it is what it is,
man. And those people that are

(41:44):
teaching those classes are more yoga leaders just because let's
be honest, in an hour long classwhen you've got 75 people in a
room, there's not a lot of teaching you're doing.
You're just leading them througha flow or leading them through
some movements to offer suggestion.
And it's one of those things where you got to be careful
because they become yoga teachers and everybody thinks,

(42:06):
well, you're a yoga teacher. Well, that means that you must
be enlightened and awakened and you must have all of this stuff
figured out. But a lot of people don't
consider the fact that maybe they were just a good at
gymnastics or cheerleading and then they ran things to do with
it. And so they turned over to yoga.
And because they can do splits, people ask them for all this
advice, but they really have never done the self work, like

(42:27):
you said, to be able to out the spiritual aspects.
So, you know, I think there's got to be more attention to
brought to that as well. And I think a big time thing
that we've got to do is to kind of bring the Western world into
yoga, and properly. Yeah.
And you know, there's so much tobe said about the psychosomatics
and psycho connection of why am I holding this pain specifically

(42:50):
here in my body? And what is the fundamental root
of why that is there? How long has that been there?
Maybe it was an injury. Maybe it's more of a
psychological disease that's turned into a mental disease,
which is also a result of inflammation because of poor
dieting. And there's so many like aspects
that go into it about why pain is showing up that we don't in

(43:11):
the Western world, we don't really address.
And functional medicine, which is more of a newer medicine
that's arriving, yeah, that's starting to show up.
And naturopathic medicine, I mean, the whole goal is to start
working on your gut first. If we can, if we can address
your gut, that is the one of thenumber one things that we can do
to help fix your entire body. And that in itself a yoga

(43:32):
practice because you know, making foods for yourself and
putting loving food with intention and having that higher
self-awareness of what's going into the form and how that
particular molecular molecular construct is now affecting the
rest of the neurological railways nervous system that's
running through your body. And then from there, how that

(43:52):
affecting the Olympic system andthe mood disorders or the orders
that we can recreate from that. So, and that's something too
that and working with Silathibinhas really helped me understand
a lot about how the correlates to the body's healing and how
the even minor, minor decisions that we make that go on

(44:14):
subconscious, as we would call them, the, the, the, the actions
that we have and behaviors that we have that we're unaware of
how those contribute to overall this ease And that this ease,
while we can't play an avoidancegame around it, this ease is
going to happen. Discomfort's going to happen.
It's all about, well, understanding what is the source

(44:35):
of that disease, who's the one that's experiencing the disease,
the identity that's behind that,and how we can slowly peel the
layers back to get down to the root of that.
And if we can get down to the root, then like, that's the
goal. And a lot of it is, Louise Hay
says, comes from shame, guilt, self criticism, self judgement,
and this internal feeling that I'm not enough or that I'm not

(44:57):
worthy. And.
All our derivatives of fear thatthat fear, you know, I tell
people all the time that you have a choice to make to live
your life out of love or fear, but those are your fundamental
options. Everything else derivative of
one of those two. So your decisions you make all
day long, like you said, if you fear people judging you, then

(45:19):
you're going to make decisions based out of fear, which is
guilt, shame, all that. But if you go and you just love
being who you are and you're notworried about what anyone else
may say, then you're going to make decisions that aren't going
to send you down that path. And you're going to end up with
a lot of love emotions, which are gratitude.
You know the list of all because.

(45:39):
There's joy, peace, understanding, Yeah.
Acceptance, all of this. Yeah.
Neutrality. Choose, you know, you got it
everyday and a million times a day.
We got to choose fear love, alsovictim champion, because we
choose to see things as an opportunity as instead of as a
obstacle. Then it's I was just like, hey,

(46:00):
OK, cool, here's an opportunity for me to grow.
So let me go ahead and pour myself into it, figure out what
it is I need to learn and then move on.
That's now you're championing the things that happened in your
life instead of feeling badly oryou know, woe is me, which I did
that for years. For many years.
That was the best in the business.
Nobody can help out self pity themselves.

(46:21):
Yeah, yeah, my, my victimizationis worse than yours, you know.
Exactly. Let's share some stories.
I'm sure we will. I don't, I don't, you know, and
I don't, you know, I say that jokingly because I believe that
laughter and humor are what we are able to lean into on the
other side of all that. Because certainly when you're
going through it, it doesn't feel good.

(46:44):
It feels it's the worst feeling in the world.
Shame, guilt, apathy, grief, fear, desire, anger, pride, All
of these things that Doctor David Hawkins talked about in
his book, Letting Go, The Pathway of Surrender, All of
these things are what keep us locked in.
They separate us from love. It's not that love isn't there

(47:05):
because I believe that yoga and all these teachers that have
come before us through yoga teachers, they were teachers of
love. Baba Ram Das, Yogananda,
Krishnamurti, you name it, they were all teachers of love.
But it's sometimes hard to hear the teaching when you're still
stuck in these buckets. And that's where courage comes
in. And courage is a big piece of

(47:27):
the letting go prophet that's knowing that on the other side
of that pride or anger or fear or identity that's stuck with
that construct that on the otherside of that attachment, which
is what we talk about in yoga, non attachment.
On the other side of that, there's freedom.
On the other side of that, thereis liberation.
On the other side of that there is peace, there's love.
There's there's a whole other world.

(47:49):
But we I think that it's important that we have
instructors that have done the work to understand that because
it's very clear. It's very clear.
And I feel like you know this, when a teacher does not live by
their own words, how it shows upin their life.

(48:09):
And it, it's very, it ends up being very convoluted.
I'm certainly not here to judge that I've been that person.
And so I think that we recognizeit because we've been that
person. But it also as teachers, it
offers up an opportunity and invitation to practice
compassion and love towards themtoo.
So it. And like you said, that's, you
know, that's a stepping stone that's at least teachers exist

(48:32):
and they're getting people into yoga, which, you know, their
authenticity with their practiceand who they are is between
themselves. But it does have an effect on
everyone else. And I will never forget that.
My first yoga teachers, when I first met them, I thought, man,
these people are like spiritually gifted.
They're grounded, they're totally in light, living in

(48:53):
their truth, you know, the whole9.
And they come and find out yearslater as I look back and go to
class there or as I've seen themonline.
And it's like, wow, I had a very, my perspective on them was
very different than what should have been.
But I do agree with you 100%. We need to keep making yoga more
about what yoga really is about.And all religions in the world,

(49:17):
Jesus Christ, Muhammad, they alltaught love.
Everyone was a teacher of love. So as long as that's what you're
teaching and showing people, then in my opinion, now you're
living a yoga lifestyle. And it's quite simply that as
every decision that you make, every word out of your mouth, a
love based decision or word. And once get to that place, now

(49:38):
you're making decisions and choices from your heart and
soul, not from your brain, because your brain don't
distract you, right? But the gut is actually our
second brain. Arguably.
Arguably. Arguably, yeah, 100%.
And once you get the brain out of the way, which in my case
took two traumatic brain injuries, now I live with my
soul. So my decision, my soul and

(49:58):
heart, which means I'm living inmy truth, Satya, which brings
everything into alignment, whichnow puts you in line with the
source and with the grounding ofthe earth so that you're able to
be able to have healthy conversations with people in
spite of all the damage. And I believe that's a message
in and of itself. And I love that you have that

(50:18):
same perspective on it. It's such a powerful tool.
And I mean, man, if we could geteverybody on the same base, it'd
be great. I don't think that's a reality.
I do think you have to have duality in nature, right?
So there's always going to be people that are going to try to
take down the good people, the ones that are doing it right.
And then, you know, it's not intentional.
It's just they're still living in a life of fear.

(50:40):
They're still being a victim, which is not championing their
obstacles. They have to champion.
I get it. It's very difficult to face
yourself in the mirror and I tell people meditation is taking
yourself on a date. Would you ask yourself on a
second date? Say that to people.
Most people go man, I don't think I would like I don't think

(51:02):
I would ask myself on a second date.
I understand completely. I've been right there with you.
I would neither at times. But yeah, and every time you
choose to go to a yoga class, you are taking yourself on a
date. You're saying to yourself, you
know what, I'm going to this class to take care of my body so
that way I feel better inside ofit, or I'm going to this class
to take care of my mind. I'm going to this class because

(51:25):
I have an emotion that I need toaddress.
I'm feeling and I just need a space to be able to breathe in,
whether it's an online class or it's a class, you know, I, I, I
go to a class here, it's been a YMCA and I absolutely love it.
I, I, I love it. I never, you know, I never
thought I would ever go to a YMCA, which is like, sounds like
a really silly, dumb thing to say.

(51:46):
I get that. But because I was used to
teaching it like Equinoxes and studios and things like that, I
had formed this poor opinion. And I'm, I, I, I, I say it with
all humility about, about it. But there's an instructor here
who's from Venice, who is a, a dear friend of mine.
And I think he teaches some of the best classes because he

(52:06):
while he teaches physical movement, he's teaching so much
more about mindset and body and presence and understanding the
one who's speaking inside of your head and the one who's
listening and like really has a deep understanding of it.
And you know, I want that for more people.
You know, it's great that not not that there's anything bad

(52:28):
about it, but you know, it's great that the room's 108° and,
and all, but is that what is take?
Is that what it takes for you toget to your sensor?
And if it is, that's fine, but you can also just connect with
your breath and breathe. You can also just, but I don't
want to go on a diatribe with that.
But I also realized again, yoga meets us where we're at.

(52:50):
And sometimes we need to stay in, stay in that space for a
while. We need to stay in that hot zone
for a little bit and burn through some things and melt
some things down. That's why you know, I, I don't,
I, I think all practices of yogaare fantastic as long as the
instructor is respectful of the people that are there and as
long as the instructors doing their own work as well.

(53:11):
Well, you're, you're fortunate because you live where one of my
favorite yoga teachers is, and he and I talk often still, but
he also lives the life, you know, he's the embodiment to me
of what a yoga teacher should be.
Yancey, Do you know Yancey? Obviously, you probably know
Yancey. Yancey, Yeah.
I that name sounds really familiar.
Yancey Walker. Yancey Schwartz.

(53:33):
Yancey Schwartz Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's all over LA and all the different areas and he's a very
popular teacher. He's also got like contortion
level back bending and he's a little skater guy.
But he's just simple, humble manwho teaches and devotes his life
to other people and he's nothingbut kindness and love and I
enjoy his classes very much. He teaches rocket yoga.

(53:55):
OK. But which I mean, to me, the
names that you before the word yoga are whatever it's meant to
yoga, right? To unite all together.
That's kind of what it's about. So like, you know, I love that
concept of understanding the difference between just a yoga
teacher and someone who actuallyis an embodiment of yoga.
And like you said earlier, I hadto say everybody does.

(54:16):
You have this preconceived notion that there's no way AYMCA
could have a good yoga teacher. They have to be at Equinox or
Yoga Works or wherever it is to be good.
Right. Yeah.
No, that's absurd. Look.
It's absolutely absurd. It's absolutely absurd, and
you're going to save a lot of money too.
Exactly, and it's a lot cheaper and it turns out they're paid

(54:37):
the same amount, you just have to go through a much higher
training at 1:00. Well, well, that's the ego
'cause it's like I teach at Equinox or I teach at Yoga works
or I teach I'm here versus no, you're, you're, you're a
teacher. Doesn't matter where you teach.
And if you're teaching yoga, you're teaching love.
So it doesn't matter where you teach or whatever is there or

(54:59):
even who you're teaching. You know, and just to be real
with you, you know, I, I would teach classes on a consistent
basis out in the LA with, you know, I would say my bigger
classes were around like 4550 people at Bay Club and then on
maybe on the smaller sides are like around 20 people.

(55:19):
And then when I came up here, I teach one Class A week and I
teach a restorative class and I'm lucky if I get 3 people in
there. And I love it, man.
I love it. I love it.
I, I get to know these people, Iget to talk to them.
I get to have heartfelt conversations with them at a
much deeper level where I'm not feeling like I'm needing a rush
to the next thing. And you know, there's beauty to
there. There's definitely beauty to

(55:40):
both of it. It did come as a bit of like, it
definitely did hit the ego 'cause it's like, well, well,
well, I'm, I'm a teacher, I'm good.
Where? Where's everybody at?
I can totally, totally mimic that story and tell you what,
man, I, I, when I started teaching, first of all, I had no
desire to be a teacher. I just wanted to fix my body.

(56:02):
I just wanted to heal myself, right and stay out of a
wheelchair and avoid surgery. And so I start teaching because
one of my yoga teachers basically left me in a room full
of students and class is about to start.
She had an emergency and she goes, I need you to teach the
class today. And I was like, I'm not a yoga
teacher. And she goes, you do yoga every

(56:22):
day, 2-3 times a day for the last how long?
And I was like, OK, she goes, can you talk about it while you
do it? And I go, yeah, I go, well, I'm
not certified. She goes, there's no such thing
as the yoga police. So I taught that class.
I called more Chaturangas than I've ever called in my life
because it was the only thing I could think of.
And then after that, I became very popular, had 50-60 people

(56:44):
in my classes, moved to Jacksonville, FL, which was a
bigger city than where I was teaching, and started a job
there. And I failed miserably.
Nobody showed up to my classes. And I was like, well, maybe I
wasn't as good at this as I thought, but that was the ego.
And So what I did was said, OK, let's stop calling yourself a
yoga teacher and go back to practicing.
And I put my face on the mat forsix months and I never taught a

(57:07):
class during that period. And then ironically, out of
nowhere was given an opportunityto start teaching again at
somewhere that had already turned me down before.
And then that just pole vaulted into teaching in Miami, New
York, LA. And then that went on to teach
in Singapore and Greece. And, and it's like came because
I went back to my math, humbled myself, realized that it's not
about me. It was.

(57:29):
And I literally just was willingto give up myself as a yoga
teacher with not an easy task, right?
To stop calling yourself a yoga teacher when you're so, so into
that title, right? But I was like, no, I'm not a
teacher of yoga anymore because yoga teacher means you teach
yoga. But yeah, you teach yoga
anywhere because we've got a lotof certified yoga teachers out

(57:49):
there that don't teach any yoga anywhere.
So it's, yeah, be careful how wego about that, right?
Yeah, and and it's, it's a sharing.
I mean, I don't know if so much anymore.
It's teaching. Like I used to be very
structured about like planning my classes out and this and this
and this and this and this. And I then I realized that yoga,
spontaneous yoga is really abouta teacher.

(58:11):
I mean, for me anyways, my understanding only.
So any teachers out there listening to this, please know
that this is just a one person'sjourney and everybody has a
journey with it. But for me, it was because I
came from this military background.
Everything had to have a structure to it because
structure meant safety. And there is a degree where I'd
still believe that is the case. But also when we've been

(58:32):
teaching for, you know, I've been teaching for gosh, 11 years
now, I understand too that that structure is already built in.
I already know what's going to be safe.
So that piece of it box is checked, but it's more about
what's coming through you in themoment.
And you know, my intention always with the class is present

(58:53):
compassion, love and you know, gratitude there.
There's always some main themes that are there, but they also
tie into the day-to-day life that we live.
Because the fact of the matter is we're on a yoga mat for what?
Well, in my case, the class I teach a week is an hour and a
half long. And I, I love teaching a
restorative class because I havespace to be able to put in the

(59:16):
mindfulness stuff, which is all the other limbs, not just that
one limb of atana. And I don't plan the class
anymore. It's more about, well, what's
coming through me that is love in this moment.
And there may be pauses for periods of a minute where there
is just absolute silence. And then there may be times
where you know, something's coming through me that needs to

(59:37):
be spoken about. Love that connects people to
their bodies a little bit more, helps them have a deeper
understanding and appreciation of their body.
Because the fact of the matter is, if people really understood
how powerful an instrument the human body was, they would not
be doing the things they do to it.
They would not. They would make a completely
radical shift and change becausethe body really is divine.

(59:59):
It is a gift. I believe that without a doubt.
But there's a lot of things we do do at the short circuit.
There's a lot of things we do that arm it or we we outsource
our power to something else versus realizing that when you
really tune into your body, it'snot from a standpoint of like
body worshipping. That's what that's where I think

(01:00:20):
we can egotistical, but it's like.
Tuning in by listening to it, how is it speaking to me?
You know, we have all of these different organ systems that
we're working with. We have quadrillions of bacteria
inside of our bodies that are constantly sending insane amount
of messages through our system and working together And you
know, if we just stopped to listen, that's why these courses

(01:00:42):
like Epothena are, are super valuable too.
But if we just stopped and listened, our body is this
incredible instrument that is receiving and transmitting.
And, you know, we're disempowered from a very young
age from that as we get pulled into a system.
And the Western, I Westernization has, I think,

(01:01:07):
disempowered as I keep using that word 'cause I, there's
another word out there I'm trying to find, but has
disempowered us from that connection.
Yeah. Condition deaths.
So now we've become reliant uponthe external to feel healthy.
And then we get all these diseased states to that that
that arise from the the treatingof a symptom and not getting
down to a root cause. Well, then I tell people, I, I

(01:01:30):
think this to myself often whenever I get out of
perspective and I need new perspective.
And I go look at the ocean from the beach and I look out over
the vast ocean in the sky. And then the, as I look up at
the sky, I see the sun. And then as I look up over it's
night time, I see the stars and the moon and everything else or
a beautiful mountain range or whatever it is.
And then you realize that you are made of the exact same

(01:01:54):
ingredients that everything thatyou see as beautiful, but you
don't recognize yourself as beautiful.
And that's where it's like, to me, the mind is so powerful
because once it's conditioned tonot see what you really are,
then you really stop seeing whatyou really are and you really
appreciate the beauty of everything around you that's

(01:02:15):
made from the same thing you're made from.
But let's be honest, we are morebeautiful than anything else we
ever see. And it's sort of like the whole
concept of selfies and your perspective on your own view of
who you are. You only see yourself in the
mirror and when you take a picture of yourself, but you
don't see yourself when you smell a flower or hold a baby or
not a puppy dog. And that's what everyone else

(01:02:36):
sees. And that's why you we can see
people for their beautiful self and then they look in the mirror
and they have depression or anxiety or stress because of
their physical image. They only see one side of
themselves, that one image. And that's where it's like,
we've got to get people to realize, man, we're all made of
the same ingredients as all the things that we think are
beautiful in the world. So why we're beautiful?

(01:02:57):
Correct. Absolutely.
Absolutely. So that's a that'll be a whole
another podcast because you and I are going to do a bunch of
these and obviously it's been anhour and we haven't even
broached any of the topics of sowe're going to do this many more
times. I have a feeling that we are
going to be working together to help create a healthier world

(01:03:18):
and healthier population. And no doubt that, you know, the
connective tissue between us is is obviously in alignment since
we're going to end up in the same place in a couple weeks.
Yeah, yeah. And it's only, you know, you
know, they only live just to, they only live like 45 minutes
away from me. I'm in Oregon too, so we're.
We're over there. Yeah.
I didn't know that. I thought you were in Southern
California still, 'cause that's where you always seem to go back

(01:03:40):
to for comfort. Oh, yeah, no, we moved out last
year. We we moved last year.
It was our big step moving into discomfort, which was the Oregon
Trail of our family and you know.
That's fantastic because then I can stick around for a few extra
days and we can talk and work through some stuff and maybe we
can figure out some things and I'm going to drive down to
Northern California to go down and see chance.

(01:04:02):
Cool Aaron his set up in facilities as well.
So that'd be awesome. We can definitely, I can
definitely. I got an opening ticket.
So that way I can, that's why I never buy round trip tickets
cause sweet. I'll never know when I'm going
to need to come back. But if I get a call and somebody
needs me to go teach at a festival, you know, and like, I
never turned down any opportunity as long as it's a

(01:04:22):
good opportunity to impact others.
And so as a matter of fact, I just got invited to teach at a
music festival slash love festival called the Convergence
Festival. OK, it's in the Ozarks, which I
never. Oh sweet.
Yeah, it's going to be rad. It's going to be such a cool
experience. So we'll go over the other 30
pages of stuff that we have to sit down online now here on the

(01:04:45):
next podcast. But we want to go ahead and give
give this 1A closure. Thank you, Chris.
Appreciate you. Brother dot dot it and we'll
namaste my brother. Thank you for taking time out.
I appreciate you, no doubt. I have so much to learn from you
and I think that we can grow together.
So I hope everyone in the world listens to this podcast because

(01:05:06):
I know for a fact that there wasa lot said that needs to be
heard and. Thank you.
Truly from my heart. And you always know I'm telling
the truth because my brain doesn't work.
I'm always working from this. Also.
The truth is always what you're going to get from me, whether
you like it or not. And if you don't, if it's an
answer I don't think you want tohear, I'll go.
Are you sure you want me to answer that question?

(01:05:27):
And people who know me, they go,OK, that's your way of letting
me out of it before you say something that's going to hurt
me. So I'm like, I don't know how to
lie anymore. I used to, but I can't.
So yeah, man, I look forward to seeing you in a couple weeks.
I'm definitely going to stick around and hang out in the
Oregon Trail with you. We can put together some stuff
and make some things happen. And again, nothing but

(01:05:47):
gratitude, brother. Nothing but gratitude.
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Chris.
I appreciate you man. Yes, Sir.
We'll talk to you soon.