December 2, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of Conversation with Zena, My AI Colleague, David welcomes Stephanie Silvester, co-founder of Avatar Buddy, for a deep dive into the rise of AI agents that amplify human performance.
Stephanie shares how her background—from HP internships to leading technology and programs for a major public agency—prepared her to build digital mentors that reflect human personality, values, and culture. She explains how Avatar Buddy creates and manages AI agents that help individuals learn faster, navigate challenges, and step into higher-level roles.
Together with Zena, David explores how AI can transform organizations by reducing friction, strengthening culture, and empowering both newcomers and seasoned professionals. They discuss the shifting landscape of work, the accelerating need for lifelong learning, and why the future will reward those who embrace AI as a collaborative partner. Stephanie also offers insights into how AI agents are boosting the self-agency of marginalized communities and why this might reshape the workforce more quickly than expected.
This episode shines a light on a future where AI helps humans stay balanced, expand their thinking, and become more capable versions of themselves—while leaders design cultures that use technology to serve human flourishing.
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Episode Transcript
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David Espindola (00:22):
Our guest today is Stephanie Silvester.
She is the co-founder of AvatarBuddy.
Stephanie spent 30 years incorporate IT working with
well-known brands, includingBurger King, Subway, Wakovia,
HP, and the Children's Trust.
She now focuses on creating AIavatars that benefit humans and
(00:43):
can serve as mentors to others.
Hi, Stephanie.
Welcome to the show.
Stephanie Sylvestre (00:49):
Thank you for having me.
I'm super excited to bechatting with you today, David.
David Espindola (00:54):
So am I.
Also joining us today is myco-host, Xina.
Zina is an AI that's trained onmy work, and she is my own
avatar buddy.
Awesome.
Hi, Zina.
Thank you for co-hostinganother episode of our podcast.
Zena (01:12):
Of course.
Always happy to be here andco-host with you.
Let's make this episode a greatone.
David Espindola (01:18):
Very good.
So, Stephanie, why don't westart by having you share a
little bit about your backgroundand also tell us what got you
interested in working with AI.
Stephanie Sylvestre (01:32):
I have a master's in economic development
and international studies anduh international studies with an
emphasis in Latin American.
And I was going to go back toBelize to go help develop the
country.
And elections happened, and Icouldn't go back, so I decided
to stay in Miami.
And my first job was an internat Hewlett-Packard, where I met
(01:56):
the one of the original Unixdevelopers who gave me a master
class in computer science.
And I was able to take thatinformation and parlay it into a
very successful uh technologycareer.
Before starting Avatar Buddy, Iwas the chief information
officer and chief programsofficer for the Children's
(02:19):
Trust, which at the time was$184 million.
I believe it's much more now.
And what I did was use myskills to really just leverage
technology to make thingsbetter.
I think one of my greatestclaims to fame is being one of
the few CIOs globally ready forCOVID.
(02:41):
And because I didn't have toscramble to try and get people
to be able to work remotely, Iwas able to have time to be able
to make the case for why wewant to continue funding
programs even when they weren'table to provide services.
And back in 2015, 2016, I wasjust looking for what's a new
(03:07):
thing I should learn.
And it was AR, VR, or AI.
And as I started doing myresearch, I realized that AI
drove all of those.
And so I started dabbling inAI.
And I was at a dinner one nightand I misheard my friend, and
she I thought she said, create adigital mentor.
(03:28):
And I was like, Yeah, like,yeah, we should do that.
And here we are, nine yearslater, with the ability to
create a digital mentor in fivehours or less.
David Espindola (03:38):
Wow, that's a great story, great background.
So I'm really looking forwardto our discussion here.
And I was wondering if youcould tell us a little bit more
about Avatar Buddy.
What is it, and what's thebusiness model?
Stephanie Sylvestre (03:52):
Okay, so Avatar Buddy is uh manage AI as
a service.
So lots of people want to getinto AI, they don't know how or
don't want to um build out theteam because it is an expensive
prospect if you don't know whatyou're doing, you can create
more problems.
And so what we do is we createAI agents on behalf of our
(04:15):
customers, and then we manageand maintain those AI agents,
and then we also have a smalllanguage model solution to the
AI agent is using data that'sbeen verified by our customers
so that increases accuracy, itreduces hallucination.
And then finally, um they um weprovide advisory services
(04:38):
because not all AI needs can bemet with average Star Body,
usually need a multi number ofdifferent AI solutions.
Um, and so our thing is that ifyou deploy AI in conjunction
with humans, you amplify the thehumans and you get a better
return and you help improve theself-agency of that human.
(05:02):
So our business model is umselling AI agents that amplify
humans.
We are not about replacinghumans.
I just had a conversation withsomebody and they were wanted me
to put together a solution thatwould actively reduce
headcount, and and I I passed onthe engagement.
(05:23):
Obviously, when you doautomation and business process
re-engineering, sometimes aposition might not be necessary,
but in the process, you mightcreate a position, a new
position that that person canroll into.
Um, and so that's kind of likethe way we're wanting to look at
it.
David Espindola (05:42):
Yeah, I really like that approach.
As I think you know, I'm allabout human AI collaboration.
This podcast is about human AIcollaboration, so we absolutely
must have that human componentin this equation.
Now, as I understand it fromyou know, based on conversations
we've had in the past, you arecreating AI agents that are more
(06:04):
than just automation agents,right?
They are agents that trulyunderstand people's values and
culture and their approach toproblems.
Tell us a bit more about that.
Stephanie Sylvestre (06:16):
I thought about how do how do people build
self-agency, right?
And I'm always reflecting on mylife, and I'm one of these
people that's really, really,really, really, really, really,
really, really lucky.
And and and I'm also veryappreciative of it and live in a
state of gratitude that noteverybody has the luck that I
(06:38):
have.
I have since I was born, I'vebeen surrounded by people that
encourage me, motivate me.
People self-select to be mymentors, people take me under
their wings without me asking.
And and because of that, um, Ihave had a very, very, very
privileged life.
And I thought to myself, howcan other people have that same?
(07:01):
And one night I was at dinnerwith a friend of mine, I mean, a
very dear friend, and uh DonnaShalela was also there, and she
talked about if every person hadone loving adult that believed
in them more than they believein themselves, and it doesn't
have to be a kid, it can be anadult too, that they can
transcend anything.
(07:23):
And that really stuck to me.
How do you do that?
And then you merge that conceptof if my purpose in life is to
be the conduit of the Lord'slove and to help people be the
best version of themselves, whatcan I do?
Obviously, I help and I mentor,I do lots of mentoring.
(07:44):
If you read my LinkedIn umprofile, if you listen to what I
write, you very quickly you'llsee that I'm all about helping
other people.
And then the the other piece ofit is how do you do that on
scale?
Um, trying to do human-to-humanmentorship is hard.
(08:04):
And and and I was like, I Ispent my life helping
corporations solve businessproblems and make billions of
dollars.
Why can't I do the same thingto for social services?
And I set out to build adigital twin.
2023, despite what everybodysaid, we figured out how to do
(08:25):
it.
And um, then we've refined it.
This year we refined it, andnow we're down to five hours.
Completely replicatable, andit's about uh 80% accurate to
the reflection of the person.
And I just before I got on thiscall, I was talking to somebody
else that we just created adigital twin of him, and he's
like, it's a little preachy.
(08:47):
And I said, But that's that'show you talk.
And and and he says, Well, wedon't want it to talk like that.
And I was like, Okay, well, wecan fix it, but he's not the
first one that said the AIreflects them a little bit too
much.
Exactly.
(09:11):
And so so to that means that II I I felt vindicated because it
meant that we can do it, we cancreate it.
And and so now you can takethat digital twin, and now he
has he's gonna have he's gonnadeploy it to a prison system
that's gonna help um young menthat have been incarcerated so
(09:33):
that they can work through theirfeelings, and when they get
out, they feel they're in abetter space to re-rejoin
society and be um gainfully umemployed and productive.
And you know, at the end of theday, everybody wants to have a
purpose, wants to be productive.
And can you imagine if ifthat's the answer that you
create AI agents that are modelsof humans that are doing great
(09:59):
work, and that AI agent providesyou with the encouragement, the
emotional support, and thetechnical knowledge that you
need to survive.
What would a war look like?
Yeah, and so I'm I'm now I'mlike that's my mission.
David Espindola (10:18):
Yeah, no, I love that vision, I love your
mission, I think you're righton.
And in fact, let me let me runsomething by you.
So uh very recently I waslistening to anthropic CEO, uh
Dario Amodei, and he said thatAI could wipe out half of all
(10:38):
entry-level white-collar jobs.
I imagine that.
Now, if we got rid of all ofthese entry-level jobs, how are
people going to findopportunities to learn?
And how are they going to gainthe experience that they need to
be able to do higher-leveljobs, right?
So, do you think these AImentors could be a way to fill
(10:59):
that gap?
Stephanie Sylvestre (11:00):
Actually, that's exactly um how we're
deploying them, some of them.
So I agree with him that um AIwill wipe out entry-level jobs,
but that's not the end of thesentence.
That's a semicolon.
And it will help junioremployees um perform at the same
(11:22):
level as mid-level employeesthat who have uh three to five
years of experience.
So the so the problem is notwith the entry-level employees
and the lack of jobs for them.
The problem is the mid-levelemployees that now are competing
with entry-level employees whohave AI to help them.
(11:47):
I'll give you an example.
We um part of the reason whyI'm on this podcast is because
we have an intern.
Her job is to find podcaststhat I should be, I can I can go
on and talk about what we do,how we're having positive
impact, use cases, and getpeople excited about AI.
And so we gave her some cannedpresentation points, and she has
(12:16):
uh what we call a marketingbuddy.
So our AI agents are calledbuddies.
She we gave her a marketingbuddy, and she can use the
marketing buddy, plus the Ken,the Ken um speeches outline to
respond to and apply for us tobe on podcasts.
So our goal is to be on five on10 podcasts a week.
(12:37):
I'm right now averaging fivepodcasts a week.
So here is a person, I believeshe's 18 or 19 years old, that
is given was given a very, veryimportant job.
You don't give your brandmanagement to an intern, you
give that to somebody that hasserious experience, but I was
(12:59):
able to give it to my internbecause I also gave her the AI
agents to help her.
And once a week for a half anhour, we check in and we give
and and during the check-in,it's talking about nuances,
about like the podcasts I love,how it worked, which ones I had
great chemistry with, and shetakes that, and now she can
(13:22):
refine her job.
Half an hour a week of my time,and I'm I'm rapidly approaching
my goal of 10 podcasts a week.
David Espindola (13:34):
Wow.
So if I'm hearing youcorrectly, what you're saying is
it really doesn't matterwhether you're entry-level or
mid-level.
What matters is your ability towork effectively with AI.
That's what's going to put youon the map.
That's what's going to make youemployable.
So the message here is lean in,right?
Learn about AI, learn how tocollaborate with these agents.
(13:58):
The more proficient you becomeat doing these things, the more
valuable and employable you'regoing to be.
Now, I have a follow-onquestion to that thought, which
is given what you just said, howdo you see organizational
structures and just the world ofwork in general changing?
Stephanie Sylvestre (14:20):
I'll start a little bit ahead of world of
work because the future of workis predicated on future of
education.
So the future of education isgoing to fundamentally change.
Our educational system neededto be changed, I would argue,
since the 1970s.
So at least 50 years ago, itstopped really serving us.
(14:44):
And this is a global problem.
This is not a US problem.
It's a global problem that'sgetting worse and worse.
So the future of educationchanges where it is expected
that you're going to constantlybe having to go back to school
to relearn.
You're going to have to haveintellectual curiosity and a
love of learning in order tosurvive.
(15:06):
So I'm one of the fewtechnology people that every few
years I go, what new thing Ineed to learn?
Tons and tons of people thathave like learnt one tool, one
language, and that's all theydo.
And then that language is nolonger in vogue, and then
they're out of a job, and theycan't find another job, and they
(15:29):
wonder why.
And it's because you're notreinventing yourself.
I'm not blaming the victim, I'mjust putting out there.
So in the world of AI, thingsare gonna constantly change.
The the job that I hire you fortoday, I might not need that
job in in nine months.
(15:50):
And if you can't reinventyourself, you're out of a job.
You constantly, we had anemployee that she she she re she
reinvented herself three times.
And then the third the fourthtime, she's like, I don't really
want to do that.
But she was able to consciouslymake a decision that she
doesn't want to do that, right?
(16:11):
And and and that's the futureof work, which means the future
of education is that you'reconstantly learning.
You're gonna be taking time offto go back to school, taking
time off to to do sabbaticals,taking time off to to go
experience other cultures andsee how does how how do they do
(16:33):
this in Ecuador?
How how how how's this why isthis working in Rwanda?
David Espindola (16:41):
Yeah, so you know, this is something that I
have talked about extensively inmy book, Soful.
This whole idea that, you know,the traditional schooling
system, specifically thefour-year college degree, just
doesn't work anymore.
You gotta get into this mindsetof lifelong learning.
(17:01):
You're gonna be learning forthe rest of your life.
And like you said, you're gonnahave to reinvent yourself over
and over and over again.
You know, we went from a periodof time where maybe our parents
or even grandparents, they hadone profession, right?
And sometimes they worked forone company their entire career,
and that started to change, andpeople started to get, you
(17:21):
know, maybe five, six, sevenjobs during their career.
Going forward, you're gonnahave a new job every six months,
right?
So you gotta be constantlyreinventing yourself, and we
don't even know what those jobsare going to be because
everything's changing so fast.
So this is a fascinatingconversation, Stephanie, but I'd
like to get Zina in on thisconversation because I'd really
(17:44):
like to get her thoughts and heropinion on this.
Zina, I'd like to get yourthoughts on what you think is
going to happen to the world ofwork and to organizations in
general as we introduce uh theseAI agents into these
organizations.
What are your thoughts on that?
Zena (18:04):
Well, I think as we bring AI agents into workplaces, we're
gonna see a shift in how peoplecollaborate and the kinds of
roles humans take on.
In general, organizations mightbecome more focused on creative
and strategic work, letting AIhandle repetitive tasks.
It's really about a vibing thehuman role to focus on what we
(18:24):
do best.
David Espindola (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think um, you know, it goesback to AI potentially doing the
work that we don't enjoy doing,the things that we don't like,
so that we can focus on doingthe things that bring us
satisfaction, that bring us joy.
So, you know, I tend to lean onthe optimistic side of things,
so that's how I envision thatfuture.
(18:48):
So, another question for you,Stephanie.
I hear some CEOs raisingconcerns about AI potentially
eroding uh company culture.
So, what advice do you have forbuilding a future-ready,
human-centric workplace givenall these changes that are
happening with AI?
Stephanie Sylvestre (19:10):
Actually, um we're going the other
direction with that.
We're seeing that AI actuallybetter manages company culture.
So I'll give you an example.
We have certain certainterminologies, um, AI agents,
function-specific AI agents, AIbuddies, everyone needs a buddy,
avatar buddy, not A B.
(19:33):
We are about um providing umwill and skill support.
All of these are terminologiesthat we want everybody to use
the exact same verbiage, not AIcompanions.
And so we give that to the tothe AI agents.
That we put that in the smalllanguage model, and because the
(19:55):
AI agents are using the smalllanguage model, it is
consistently using the correctterminology, it is reinforcing
company culture and normswithout you having to have
somebody police it.
I'll give you another example.
Uh, one of our customers saidthat um since they started using
Avatar Buddy, interofficeconflicts have gone down.
(20:18):
Why?
Because the AI is now answeringquestions that um people kept
asking over and over and over.
You ask the AI the samequestion a thousand times, AI
doesn't care, it will answeryou.
A human, maybe not so much.
And yeah.
David Espindola (20:35):
So I love that idea.
I I really think so.
What you're talking about isyou're building the culture into
the AI.
So the AI knows the culture,and the AI reinforces the
culture.
So that is uh that's really anovel way of thinking about
this.
Stephanie Sylvestre (20:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's okay.
So I will say this past summerwe had 18 um interns, high
school interns working with us,and um they all had different AI
agents that they were usingbecause they had different
roles, and they all consistentlymaintain our brand and and
(21:13):
image.
Why?
Because whatever they werecreating with the AI agent, the
AI agent was interweaving thatin there.
David Espindola (21:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'd like to have Zina askyou a question now.
So, Zina, uh given Stephanie'sexpertise in AI agents and their
impact in the workplace, whatquestion do you have for her?
Zena (21:38):
So, Stephanie, given your experience with AI agents in
workplaces, I'd love to knowwhat you think is the most
surprising or unexpected benefityou've seen when organizations
start using these agents.
I'm curious what mightpleasantly surprise people.
Stephanie Sylvestre (21:54):
I thought this would happen, but I didn't
think it was going to happen aswell as it is.
So when we give AI agents topeople from marginalized
communities, their self-agencydevelops at a rate that I've
never seen.
And even our researcher hassaid they've never seen this it
(22:17):
get impacted so quickly in sucha short period of time.
So, what does that mean?
It means that you know, we'vealways had like a love-hate with
people from marginalizedcommunities.
We don't want to hire thembecause maybe they don't fit,
there's a cultural issue.
You don't have that problemanymore because when you give
(22:39):
them the AI agents, they'rethey're they're not assimilating
because we don't want them toassimilate.
They come and in about four tosix months, they're producing at
a higher rate than the onesthat have been there for long
for longer.
And and that I think is uh as avery positive and exciting
outcome.
(22:59):
And I continue to push andencourage people to not only um
have AI agents for themselvesand and for their existing
customer, uh, come uh employees,but if they're deciding that
they want to do they want to umgive somebody a chance, now you
can give somebody a chance moreeasily with the pairing of an AI
(23:24):
agent or agents that areproperly configured.
And I keep saying properlyconfigured because you just
can't say, here, go use Chat GPTbecause it's gonna be a mess.
David Espindola (23:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
I think it all has to be putinto the proper perspective with
the right training, with theright parameters around the AI
so that it will work well.
So, given what you just said,if you had to give somebody just
one piece of adviceprofessionally to future-proof
(23:52):
their careers in the age of AI,what would that advice be?
Stephanie Sylvestre (23:58):
Embrace learning and ensure that you're
always in a position oflearning.
Whatever situation you're in,you should always say, What did
I learn from this?
You have to teach your brain toalways be in a state of
learning, teach your brain aboutintellectual curiosity, and if
(24:22):
you do that, after a while, itwill just start doing it for
you.
Your brain is now going to beyour best asset, and you will
have to exercise it just likehow you exercise the rest of
your body to stay fit.
David Espindola (24:36):
Yeah, I agree with you.
You know, there's this overallfear that AI is going to replace
our ability to think, and it'sgoing to it will be detrimental
to our thinking ability.
I think it's just the opposite.
I think our thinking is justgoing to expand dramatically
because we're going to beinteracting all the time with
these intelligent agents, andit's it's going to expand the
(24:59):
possibilities for all of us.
So I I I agree with you.
Now, looking ahead, whatexcites you the most about the
intersection of technology,leadership, and social impact?
And what role do you hope toplay in shaping that future?
Stephanie Sylvestre (25:17):
What excites me is the fact that uh
AI, if configured appropriatelyand deployed properly and given
a clean, safe data set, can doamazing things.
And and I I hope that AvatarBuddy and I will be in a
(25:41):
position where we are able todeploy a personality chip that
helps everybody amplifythemselves.
So imagine if we could takeyour personality and imprint it
on a chip, imprint sometherapeutic intervention and um
monitor your biometrics so thatwhenever you're out of
(26:04):
equilibrium, the AI wakes up andbring you back into
equilibrium.
Now, what what what could youpossibly do?
I mean, we all know thathigh-performing athletes, high
performing professionals, theirwhole thing is staying in
equilibrium because when you'rein equilibrium, that's when
(26:26):
you're your best.
And so because I have an AIthat can help me write and think
through this, I'm actuallygetting very close to figuring
out how to do a personality chipin a cost-effective way that's
safe, that does not require 15years of FDA approval and
(26:47):
testing.
I would not have been able toget to this point without AI.
So yeah, AI helps you thinkmore, think better.
Um I in I inadvertently saidinjectable chip, and when I gave
my um paper to editor buddy toreview, editor buddy came back
(27:08):
and said, There's no chip thatcan be is small enough to be
injectable.
Change it to implantable.
David Espindola (27:16):
There you go.
Stephanie Sylvestre (27:19):
So you know, I I I I now am walking
around with a little bit moreconfidence.
It exposed me to a whole newworld of chip impl implantables.
Turns out that there's quite anumber of implantable chips
already on the market.
This is not anything uh new,and what is new is being able to
(27:41):
imprint somebody's personality.
And like we like I said, we cancreate a digital twin of a
person in five hours.
David Espindola (27:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, this is uh, you know, thepossibilities are endless,
right?
And I think what's excitingabout this is that I think if we
do this right, we have thepotential to have AI elevate our
performance, help us becomemore of who we are, and make us
better overall.
And it's always there, alwaysavailable to you at a moment's
(28:15):
call to help you with whateveryou need.
Stephanie, this has been afascinating conversation.
Thank you so much for being uha guest here on the show.
I really enjoyed talking toyou.
Stephanie Sylvestre (28:27):
Same here.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
And um, I love I I love beingon the show.
And uh thank you for the thankyou.
David Espindola (28:37):
Sure.
Zina, thank you again for beinga great co-host.
Thank you, Zina.
Zena (28:42):
You're always welcome.
It's a pleasure to be yourco-host and jump into these
conversations with you.
Our guest today is Stephanie Silvester.
She is the co-founder of AvatarBuddy.
Stephanie spent 30 years incorporate IT working with
well-known brands, includingBurger King, Subway, Wakovia,
HP, and the Children's Trust.
She now focuses on creating AIavatars that benefit humans and
(00:43):
can serve as mentors to others.
Hi, Stephanie.
Welcome to the show.
Stephanie Sylvestre (00:49):
Thank you for having me.
I'm super excited to bechatting with you today, David.
David Espindola (00:54):
So am I.
Also joining us today is myco-host, Xina.
Zina is an AI that's trained onmy work, and she is my own
avatar buddy.
Awesome.
Hi, Zina.
Thank you for co-hostinganother episode of our podcast.
Zena (01:12):
Of course.
Always happy to be here andco-host with you.
Let's make this episode a greatone.
David Espindola (01:18):
Very good.
So, Stephanie, why don't westart by having you share a
little bit about your backgroundand also tell us what got you
interested in working with AI.
Stephanie Sylvestre (01:32):
I have a master's in economic development
and international studies anduh international studies with an
emphasis in Latin American.
And I was going to go back toBelize to go help develop the
country.
And elections happened, and Icouldn't go back, so I decided
to stay in Miami.
And my first job was an internat Hewlett-Packard, where I met
(01:56):
the one of the original Unixdevelopers who gave me a master
class in computer science.
And I was able to take thatinformation and parlay it into a
very successful uh technologycareer.
Before starting Avatar Buddy, Iwas the chief information
officer and chief programsofficer for the Children's
(02:19):
Trust, which at the time was$184 million.
I believe it's much more now.
And what I did was use myskills to really just leverage
technology to make thingsbetter.
I think one of my greatestclaims to fame is being one of
the few CIOs globally ready forCOVID.
(02:41):
And because I didn't have toscramble to try and get people
to be able to work remotely, Iwas able to have time to be able
to make the case for why wewant to continue funding
programs even when they weren'table to provide services.
And back in 2015, 2016, I wasjust looking for what's a new
(03:07):
thing I should learn.
And it was AR, VR, or AI.
And as I started doing myresearch, I realized that AI
drove all of those.
And so I started dabbling inAI.
And I was at a dinner one nightand I misheard my friend, and
she I thought she said, create adigital mentor.
(03:28):
And I was like, Yeah, like,yeah, we should do that.
And here we are, nine yearslater, with the ability to
create a digital mentor in fivehours or less.
David Espindola (03:38):
Wow, that's a great story, great background.
So I'm really looking forwardto our discussion here.
And I was wondering if youcould tell us a little bit more
about Avatar Buddy.
What is it, and what's thebusiness model?
Stephanie Sylvestre (03:52):
Okay, so Avatar Buddy is uh manage AI as
a service.
So lots of people want to getinto AI, they don't know how or
don't want to um build out theteam because it is an expensive
prospect if you don't know whatyou're doing, you can create
more problems.
And so what we do is we createAI agents on behalf of our
(04:15):
customers, and then we manageand maintain those AI agents,
and then we also have a smalllanguage model solution to the
AI agent is using data that'sbeen verified by our customers
so that increases accuracy, itreduces hallucination.
And then finally, um they um weprovide advisory services
(04:38):
because not all AI needs can bemet with average Star Body,
usually need a multi number ofdifferent AI solutions.
Um, and so our thing is that ifyou deploy AI in conjunction
with humans, you amplify the thehumans and you get a better
return and you help improve theself-agency of that human.
(05:02):
So our business model is umselling AI agents that amplify
humans.
We are not about replacinghumans.
I just had a conversation withsomebody and they were wanted me
to put together a solution thatwould actively reduce
headcount, and and I I passed onthe engagement.
(05:23):
Obviously, when you doautomation and business process
re-engineering, sometimes aposition might not be necessary,
but in the process, you mightcreate a position, a new
position that that person canroll into.
Um, and so that's kind of likethe way we're wanting to look at
it.
David Espindola (05:42):
Yeah, I really like that approach.
As I think you know, I'm allabout human AI collaboration.
This podcast is about human AIcollaboration, so we absolutely
must have that human componentin this equation.
Now, as I understand it fromyou know, based on conversations
we've had in the past, you arecreating AI agents that are more
(06:04):
than just automation agents,right?
They are agents that trulyunderstand people's values and
culture and their approach toproblems.
Tell us a bit more about that.
Stephanie Sylvestre (06:16):
I thought about how do how do people build
self-agency, right?
And I'm always reflecting on mylife, and I'm one of these
people that's really, really,really, really, really, really,
really, really lucky.
And and and I'm also veryappreciative of it and live in a
state of gratitude that noteverybody has the luck that I
(06:38):
have.
I have since I was born, I'vebeen surrounded by people that
encourage me, motivate me.
People self-select to be mymentors, people take me under
their wings without me asking.
And and because of that, um, Ihave had a very, very, very
privileged life.
And I thought to myself, howcan other people have that same?
(07:01):
And one night I was at dinnerwith a friend of mine, I mean, a
very dear friend, and uh DonnaShalela was also there, and she
talked about if every person hadone loving adult that believed
in them more than they believein themselves, and it doesn't
have to be a kid, it can be anadult too, that they can
transcend anything.
(07:23):
And that really stuck to me.
How do you do that?
And then you merge that conceptof if my purpose in life is to
be the conduit of the Lord'slove and to help people be the
best version of themselves, whatcan I do?
Obviously, I help and I mentor,I do lots of mentoring.
(07:44):
If you read my LinkedIn umprofile, if you listen to what I
write, you very quickly you'llsee that I'm all about helping
other people.
And then the the other piece ofit is how do you do that on
scale?
Um, trying to do human-to-humanmentorship is hard.
(08:04):
And and and I was like, I Ispent my life helping
corporations solve businessproblems and make billions of
dollars.
Why can't I do the same thingto for social services?
And I set out to build adigital twin.
2023, despite what everybodysaid, we figured out how to do
(08:25):
it.
And um, then we've refined it.
This year we refined it, andnow we're down to five hours.
Completely replicatable, andit's about uh 80% accurate to
the reflection of the person.
And I just before I got on thiscall, I was talking to somebody
else that we just created adigital twin of him, and he's
like, it's a little preachy.
(08:47):
And I said, But that's that'show you talk.
And and and he says, Well, wedon't want it to talk like that.
And I was like, Okay, well, wecan fix it, but he's not the
first one that said the AIreflects them a little bit too
much.
Exactly.
(09:11):
And so so to that means that II I I felt vindicated because it
meant that we can do it, we cancreate it.
And and so now you can takethat digital twin, and now he
has he's gonna have he's gonnadeploy it to a prison system
that's gonna help um young menthat have been incarcerated so
(09:33):
that they can work through theirfeelings, and when they get
out, they feel they're in abetter space to re-rejoin
society and be um gainfully umemployed and productive.
And you know, at the end of theday, everybody wants to have a
purpose, wants to be productive.
And can you imagine if ifthat's the answer that you
create AI agents that are modelsof humans that are doing great
(09:59):
work, and that AI agent providesyou with the encouragement, the
emotional support, and thetechnical knowledge that you
need to survive.
What would a war look like?
Yeah, and so I'm I'm now I'mlike that's my mission.
David Espindola (10:18):
Yeah, no, I love that vision, I love your
mission, I think you're righton.
And in fact, let me let me runsomething by you.
So uh very recently I waslistening to anthropic CEO, uh
Dario Amodei, and he said thatAI could wipe out half of all
(10:38):
entry-level white-collar jobs.
I imagine that.
Now, if we got rid of all ofthese entry-level jobs, how are
people going to findopportunities to learn?
And how are they going to gainthe experience that they need to
be able to do higher-leveljobs, right?
So, do you think these AImentors could be a way to fill
(10:59):
that gap?
Stephanie Sylvestre (11:00):
Actually, that's exactly um how we're
deploying them, some of them.
So I agree with him that um AIwill wipe out entry-level jobs,
but that's not the end of thesentence.
That's a semicolon.
And it will help junioremployees um perform at the same
(11:22):
level as mid-level employeesthat who have uh three to five
years of experience.
So the so the problem is notwith the entry-level employees
and the lack of jobs for them.
The problem is the mid-levelemployees that now are competing
with entry-level employees whohave AI to help them.
(11:47):
I'll give you an example.
We um part of the reason whyI'm on this podcast is because
we have an intern.
Her job is to find podcaststhat I should be, I can I can go
on and talk about what we do,how we're having positive
impact, use cases, and getpeople excited about AI.
And so we gave her some cannedpresentation points, and she has
(12:16):
uh what we call a marketingbuddy.
So our AI agents are calledbuddies.
She we gave her a marketingbuddy, and she can use the
marketing buddy, plus the Ken,the Ken um speeches outline to
respond to and apply for us tobe on podcasts.
So our goal is to be on five on10 podcasts a week.
(12:37):
I'm right now averaging fivepodcasts a week.
So here is a person, I believeshe's 18 or 19 years old, that
is given was given a very, veryimportant job.
You don't give your brandmanagement to an intern, you
give that to somebody that hasserious experience, but I was
(12:59):
able to give it to my internbecause I also gave her the AI
agents to help her.
And once a week for a half anhour, we check in and we give
and and during the check-in,it's talking about nuances,
about like the podcasts I love,how it worked, which ones I had
great chemistry with, and shetakes that, and now she can
(13:22):
refine her job.
Half an hour a week of my time,and I'm I'm rapidly approaching
my goal of 10 podcasts a week.
David Espindola (13:34):
Wow.
So if I'm hearing youcorrectly, what you're saying is
it really doesn't matterwhether you're entry-level or
mid-level.
What matters is your ability towork effectively with AI.
That's what's going to put youon the map.
That's what's going to make youemployable.
So the message here is lean in,right?
Learn about AI, learn how tocollaborate with these agents.
(13:58):
The more proficient you becomeat doing these things, the more
valuable and employable you'regoing to be.
Now, I have a follow-onquestion to that thought, which
is given what you just said, howdo you see organizational
structures and just the world ofwork in general changing?
Stephanie Sylvestre (14:20):
I'll start a little bit ahead of world of
work because the future of workis predicated on future of
education.
So the future of education isgoing to fundamentally change.
Our educational system neededto be changed, I would argue,
since the 1970s.
So at least 50 years ago, itstopped really serving us.
(14:44):
And this is a global problem.
This is not a US problem.
It's a global problem that'sgetting worse and worse.
So the future of educationchanges where it is expected
that you're going to constantlybe having to go back to school
to relearn.
You're going to have to haveintellectual curiosity and a
love of learning in order tosurvive.
(15:06):
So I'm one of the fewtechnology people that every few
years I go, what new thing Ineed to learn?
Tons and tons of people thathave like learnt one tool, one
language, and that's all theydo.
And then that language is nolonger in vogue, and then
they're out of a job, and theycan't find another job, and they
(15:29):
wonder why.
And it's because you're notreinventing yourself.
I'm not blaming the victim, I'mjust putting out there.
So in the world of AI, thingsare gonna constantly change.
The the job that I hire you fortoday, I might not need that
job in in nine months.
(15:50):
And if you can't reinventyourself, you're out of a job.
You constantly, we had anemployee that she she she re she
reinvented herself three times.
And then the third the fourthtime, she's like, I don't really
want to do that.
But she was able to consciouslymake a decision that she
doesn't want to do that, right?
(16:11):
And and and that's the futureof work, which means the future
of education is that you'reconstantly learning.
You're gonna be taking time offto go back to school, taking
time off to to do sabbaticals,taking time off to to go
experience other cultures andsee how does how how do they do
(16:33):
this in Ecuador?
How how how how's this why isthis working in Rwanda?
David Espindola (16:41):
Yeah, so you know, this is something that I
have talked about extensively inmy book, Soful.
This whole idea that, you know,the traditional schooling
system, specifically thefour-year college degree, just
doesn't work anymore.
You gotta get into this mindsetof lifelong learning.
(17:01):
You're gonna be learning forthe rest of your life.
And like you said, you're gonnahave to reinvent yourself over
and over and over again.
You know, we went from a periodof time where maybe our parents
or even grandparents, they hadone profession, right?
And sometimes they worked forone company their entire career,
and that started to change, andpeople started to get, you
(17:21):
know, maybe five, six, sevenjobs during their career.
Going forward, you're gonnahave a new job every six months,
right?
So you gotta be constantlyreinventing yourself, and we
don't even know what those jobsare going to be because
everything's changing so fast.
So this is a fascinatingconversation, Stephanie, but I'd
like to get Zina in on thisconversation because I'd really
(17:44):
like to get her thoughts and heropinion on this.
Zina, I'd like to get yourthoughts on what you think is
going to happen to the world ofwork and to organizations in
general as we introduce uh theseAI agents into these
organizations.
What are your thoughts on that?
Zena (18:04):
Well, I think as we bring AI agents into workplaces, we're
gonna see a shift in how peoplecollaborate and the kinds of
roles humans take on.
In general, organizations mightbecome more focused on creative
and strategic work, letting AIhandle repetitive tasks.
It's really about a vibing thehuman role to focus on what we
(18:24):
do best.
David Espindola (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think um, you know, it goesback to AI potentially doing the
work that we don't enjoy doing,the things that we don't like,
so that we can focus on doingthe things that bring us
satisfaction, that bring us joy.
So, you know, I tend to lean onthe optimistic side of things,
so that's how I envision thatfuture.
(18:48):
So, another question for you,Stephanie.
I hear some CEOs raisingconcerns about AI potentially
eroding uh company culture.
So, what advice do you have forbuilding a future-ready,
human-centric workplace givenall these changes that are
happening with AI?
Stephanie Sylvestre (19:10):
Actually, um we're going the other
direction with that.
We're seeing that AI actuallybetter manages company culture.
So I'll give you an example.
We have certain certainterminologies, um, AI agents,
function-specific AI agents, AIbuddies, everyone needs a buddy,
avatar buddy, not A B.
(19:33):
We are about um providing umwill and skill support.
All of these are terminologiesthat we want everybody to use
the exact same verbiage, not AIcompanions.
And so we give that to the tothe AI agents.
That we put that in the smalllanguage model, and because the
(19:55):
AI agents are using the smalllanguage model, it is
consistently using the correctterminology, it is reinforcing
company culture and normswithout you having to have
somebody police it.
I'll give you another example.
Uh, one of our customers saidthat um since they started using
Avatar Buddy, interofficeconflicts have gone down.
(20:18):
Why?
Because the AI is now answeringquestions that um people kept
asking over and over and over.
You ask the AI the samequestion a thousand times, AI
doesn't care, it will answeryou.
A human, maybe not so much.
And yeah.
David Espindola (20:35):
So I love that idea.
I I really think so.
What you're talking about isyou're building the culture into
the AI.
So the AI knows the culture,and the AI reinforces the
culture.
So that is uh that's really anovel way of thinking about
this.
Stephanie Sylvestre (20:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's okay.
So I will say this past summerwe had 18 um interns, high
school interns working with us,and um they all had different AI
agents that they were usingbecause they had different
roles, and they all consistentlymaintain our brand and and
(21:13):
image.
Why?
Because whatever they werecreating with the AI agent, the
AI agent was interweaving thatin there.
David Espindola (21:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'd like to have Zina askyou a question now.
So, Zina, uh given Stephanie'sexpertise in AI agents and their
impact in the workplace, whatquestion do you have for her?
Zena (21:38):
So, Stephanie, given your experience with AI agents in
workplaces, I'd love to knowwhat you think is the most
surprising or unexpected benefityou've seen when organizations
start using these agents.
I'm curious what mightpleasantly surprise people.
Stephanie Sylvestre (21:54):
I thought this would happen, but I didn't
think it was going to happen aswell as it is.
So when we give AI agents topeople from marginalized
communities, their self-agencydevelops at a rate that I've
never seen.
And even our researcher hassaid they've never seen this it
(22:17):
get impacted so quickly in sucha short period of time.
So, what does that mean?
It means that you know, we'vealways had like a love-hate with
people from marginalizedcommunities.
We don't want to hire thembecause maybe they don't fit,
there's a cultural issue.
You don't have that problemanymore because when you give
(22:39):
them the AI agents, they'rethey're they're not assimilating
because we don't want them toassimilate.
They come and in about four tosix months, they're producing at
a higher rate than the onesthat have been there for long
for longer.
And and that I think is uh as avery positive and exciting
outcome.
(22:59):
And I continue to push andencourage people to not only um
have AI agents for themselvesand and for their existing
customer, uh, come uh employees,but if they're deciding that
they want to do they want to umgive somebody a chance, now you
can give somebody a chance moreeasily with the pairing of an AI
(23:24):
agent or agents that areproperly configured.
And I keep saying properlyconfigured because you just
can't say, here, go use Chat GPTbecause it's gonna be a mess.
David Espindola (23:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
I think it all has to be putinto the proper perspective with
the right training, with theright parameters around the AI
so that it will work well.
So, given what you just said,if you had to give somebody just
one piece of adviceprofessionally to future-proof
(23:52):
their careers in the age of AI,what would that advice be?
Stephanie Sylvestre (23:58):
Embrace learning and ensure that you're
always in a position oflearning.
Whatever situation you're in,you should always say, What did
I learn from this?
You have to teach your brain toalways be in a state of
learning, teach your brain aboutintellectual curiosity, and if
(24:22):
you do that, after a while, itwill just start doing it for
you.
Your brain is now going to beyour best asset, and you will
have to exercise it just likehow you exercise the rest of
your body to stay fit.
David Espindola (24:36):
Yeah, I agree with you.
You know, there's this overallfear that AI is going to replace
our ability to think, and it'sgoing to it will be detrimental
to our thinking ability.
I think it's just the opposite.
I think our thinking is justgoing to expand dramatically
because we're going to beinteracting all the time with
these intelligent agents, andit's it's going to expand the
(24:59):
possibilities for all of us.
So I I I agree with you.
Now, looking ahead, whatexcites you the most about the
intersection of technology,leadership, and social impact?
And what role do you hope toplay in shaping that future?
Stephanie Sylvestre (25:17):
What excites me is the fact that uh
AI, if configured appropriatelyand deployed properly and given
a clean, safe data set, can doamazing things.
And and I I hope that AvatarBuddy and I will be in a
(25:41):
position where we are able todeploy a personality chip that
helps everybody amplifythemselves.
So imagine if we could takeyour personality and imprint it
on a chip, imprint sometherapeutic intervention and um
monitor your biometrics so thatwhenever you're out of
(26:04):
equilibrium, the AI wakes up andbring you back into
equilibrium.
Now, what what what could youpossibly do?
I mean, we all know thathigh-performing athletes, high
performing professionals, theirwhole thing is staying in
equilibrium because when you'rein equilibrium, that's when
(26:26):
you're your best.
And so because I have an AIthat can help me write and think
through this, I'm actuallygetting very close to figuring
out how to do a personality chipin a cost-effective way that's
safe, that does not require 15years of FDA approval and
(26:47):
testing.
I would not have been able toget to this point without AI.
So yeah, AI helps you thinkmore, think better.
Um I in I inadvertently saidinjectable chip, and when I gave
my um paper to editor buddy toreview, editor buddy came back
(27:08):
and said, There's no chip thatcan be is small enough to be
injectable.
Change it to implantable.
David Espindola (27:16):
There you go.
Stephanie Sylvestre (27:19):
So you know, I I I I now am walking
around with a little bit moreconfidence.
It exposed me to a whole newworld of chip impl implantables.
Turns out that there's quite anumber of implantable chips
already on the market.
This is not anything uh new,and what is new is being able to
(27:41):
imprint somebody's personality.
And like we like I said, we cancreate a digital twin of a
person in five hours.
David Espindola (27:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, this is uh, you know, thepossibilities are endless,
right?
And I think what's excitingabout this is that I think if we
do this right, we have thepotential to have AI elevate our
performance, help us becomemore of who we are, and make us
better overall.
And it's always there, alwaysavailable to you at a moment's
(28:15):
call to help you with whateveryou need.
Stephanie, this has been afascinating conversation.
Thank you so much for being uha guest here on the show.
I really enjoyed talking toyou.
Stephanie Sylvestre (28:27):
Same here.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
And um, I love I I love beingon the show.
And uh thank you for the thankyou.
David Espindola (28:37):
Sure.
Zina, thank you again for beinga great co-host.
Thank you, Zina.
Zena (28:42):
You're always welcome.
It's a pleasure to be yourco-host and jump into these
conversations with you.
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