January 16, 2024 • 54 mins
Embark on a cosmic odyssey with Ron Breacher, a virtuoso of the night sky, whose transformation from an amateur stargazer to an astrophotography maestro is nothing short of awe-inspiring. Clutching the telescope that started it all, Ron shares the celestial moments that propelled him from admiring the stars to immortalizing them through his lens. He opens up about the pivotal role played by Terrence Dickinson's "Night Watch" in his journey and the exhilarating leap he took with his DSLR to capture the heavens. The addition of a personal observatory didn't just enhance Ron's stellar pursuits—it skyrocketed them.
Our voyage doesn't stop there; we also navigate the starlit nexus where astrophotography meets science communication. Ron and I challenge you with trivia that spans the historical tapestry of astrophotography, from its first moonlit photo to the earliest spectral studies of stars. Alongside the thrill of discovery, we traverse my evolution into an astrophotography educator, imparting the nuances of software like PixInsight and the transformative effect of virtual teaching spurred by global upheavals. Sharing the cosmos has never been more engaging or essential.
As we set our telescopes towards the future, we ponder the advancements on the horizon for astrophotography—where equipment refinement meets the dawn of artificial intelligence in image processing. Reflecting on my own gear odyssey, I emphasize the vital importance of finding the tools that resonate with your passion. We explore how innovations like automated in-camera stacking and AI enhancements are reshaping our quest to photograph the universe. Ron and I, your fellow star chasers, affirm the profound joy found in the hands-on pursuit of astrophotography, balancing technical mastery with the simple pleasure of gazing into the vastness above. Join us, and be inspired to etch your own starry legacy.
Here is a link to the YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/BpmaFghFILk?si=Pvz5304lImvz7rUM
Here is a link to the blog post: https://www.cosmossafari.com/post/astrophotography-as-a-gateway-to-science-communication-with-ron-brecher
You can find Ron at https://astrodoc.ca/
Masters of PixInsight Workshops: www.mastersofpixinsight.com
Find Dave “Cosmos Safari”
@cosmossafari on
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari
Instagram - www.instagram.com/cosmossafari
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thecosmossafari/
X - https://twitter.com/CosmosSafari
TikTok
Find Rob the “Last Minute Astronomer”
@lastminuteastronomer on
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@LastMinuteAstronomer
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lastminuteastronomer/
Check out the video version of this podcast on the Cosmos Safari YouTube Channel www.yo
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob Webb (00:10):
I'm Dave and I'm Rob, the last minute astronomer.
Dave Farina (00:14):
And we're here with Ron Breacher and I just had an
opportunity to see Ron's Mastersworkshop the other night.
How are you doing, Ron?
Ron Brecher (00:22):
I'm doing great Awesome.
Really nice to be here.
Dave Farina (00:26):
Excellent.
So, ron, can you just kind ofgive us some background?
How did you get started withastrophotography?
I mean, this is such an amazinghobby.
I've been doing it for a numberof years and I know that a lot
of our guests are probablyinterested in learning more.
Our listeners are from variousbackgrounds, but many, I believe
(00:50):
, are at some point interestedin looking at astrophotography
at least, or maybe even doing itthemselves.
So how did you get involved?
Ron Brecher (00:58):
Well, you know, I started out as a visual
astronomer and I'm still areally passionate visual
astronomer.
You might have seen a postyesterday or today of my wife
and I.
We had a bunch of people out inthe driveway last night with a
couple of like a 10 inch and a20 inch one looking at the moon
and planets and a few deep skyobjects.
(01:20):
So visual first for me andastrophotography came later.
So visual astronomy everybodywho does it has a creation story
.
Mine has like four legs on thestool.
I started really in 1997 when wemoved into the house that I
(01:42):
live in now.
My wife was pregnant with mydaughter in my second child and
my son was about three and ahalf years old.
So we moved to the country andthe skies are kind of dark,
which was cool to start with.
My old bank said you have allthese visa points.
(02:03):
Before we close down yourmortgage and your visa, do you
want to use your points to takesomething from our catalog?
And I got what I thought was atoy telescope for my son.
It turned out it was a four anda half inch reflector and it
was good enough that I saw themoon and Jupiter and Saturn,
(02:26):
which completely blew me away.
Meanwhile my daughter was bornand my daughter was colicky, so
she screamed a lot at night andthe way I soothed her was to put
her over my, over my forearmand walk her up and down the
driveway until she settled down.
And so I'm walking up and downthe driveway with this darker
(02:49):
sky and getting hooked on thestars.
I have this really cheaptelescope that got me hooked,
but it's really unsanalsmining,hard to find anything, it's
rickety and so on.
Anyway, christmas comes alongand my business partner gives me
(03:11):
Terrence Dickinson's book NightWatch.
A lot of astronomers getstarted with that book Night
Watch, and I did.
I read it from cover to coverand I was particularly
interested in chapter four,which was choosing and using the
telescope.
And they had a sidebar articlewith a picture of my telescope
(03:37):
entitled Junk Scopes from Asia.
So so I realized that it wasn'tme that was the weak link here
and I took my bonus money thatyear and bought a real telescope
in ultimate 2000 and neverlooked back.
(03:59):
I mean, I've had manytelescopes since then, but
that's how I got startedvisually.
And then I got into Sky andTelescope and Astronomy Magazine
and so on.
Oh wait, I just got a circle.
Back to Night Watch for asecond.
The fifth edition of NightWatch was just released a week
or two ago.
My photo's on the cover I sawthat.
Dave Farina (04:20):
That is so awesome.
Congratulations on that.
Ron Brecher (04:24):
I can't tell you Terrence Dickinson picked that
photo and you know, he'sresponsible for so many of us
getting into this hobby.
But to your first question howdid I get into astrophotography?
So now I've done visual.
(04:44):
I'm doing visual for a whileand I tried not to use.
I didn't use the computer much.
Basically I would use aflashlight and a start chart and
I kept a.
I'm just going to step up for asecond.
I want to grab a dish or a leaf.
Dave Farina (05:07):
I have a three volume handwritten log.
Ron Brecher (05:10):
Here's my volume one of my logbook, and I kept
this log for years until Istarted astrophotography and I
did some sketches Nothing reallyfancy.
I've got a.
My very first photos are inhere, so this is July 2002.
(05:31):
I took a picture of somesunspots by holding up a camera
to a camera, but one day, 2002.
You were doing film at first.
That was film, yeah, so thatwas film.
Dave Farina (05:47):
We'll have to circle back to that a little
later.
Ron Brecher (05:50):
Yeah, I did film.
It was hard with film butregardless where I that was just
denigling, when I really gothooked was around 2006 or so.
I got an issue of sky andtelescope.
By this time I really knew myway around this plan and had
(06:11):
favorite objects and so on, andone of them is globular cluster
M13.
Love it visually.
Dave Farina (06:18):
Yeah, it's beautiful, Definitely the my
favorite globular cluster also.
Ron Brecher (06:24):
Yeah, but there was a in the back of sky and
telescope.
There's a reader gallery,reader photos.
There was a picture of M13.
And I read the credit and itwas shot with the same DSLR that
I owned and a scope similar toone that I owned.
(06:47):
And I went to my wife and Isaid I've got to try this, I
have to do this.
Rob Webb (06:55):
There you go, got you hooked.
Ron Brecher (06:56):
Oh my goodness, there's no right.
I was absolutely hooked, sothat would have been around 2006
.
For my 50th birthday in 2009,gail bought me an observatory on
the other side of my driveway.
We had Wayne Parker from SkyShed installed Nice and he and I
(07:21):
sat on a couch and drank beerin my driveway while the
installers erected that shed andthen, when they went away, we
got the pier installed and I wasimaging the same night.
Dave Farina (07:34):
Wow, and that yeah.
Ron Brecher (07:36):
And you know I've had all kinds of equipment
changes since then, but that'show I got started.
Dave Farina (07:44):
That's a great story and the observatory.
Ron Brecher (07:47):
That's a game changer in terms of productivity
.
It's you don't spend timesetting up and tearing down and
flat you know.
Flat frames last until a speckof dust from somewhere.
You know, they've lasted a longtime.
Rob Webb (08:05):
Speaking of the first astrophotography you were doing
and seeing what other peoplecould do, I have a little three
question trivia for the three ofyou.
Okay, let's see what you getNow.
Let's see, dave, you have toanswer first okay.
And Ron's gonna answer afterthat, okay.
Dave Farina (08:25):
All right.
Rob Webb (08:26):
First question is when was the first photograph of an
astronomical object taken, andwhat was it of?
Dave Farina (08:36):
I don't know.
Rob Webb (08:42):
You're first Dave and it's not multiple choice, so you
just kind of have to go.
Dave Farina (08:48):
This is hard and I do not know the answer, so I'm
gonna give you a ballpark thatit was the late 1800s.
Rob Webb (08:58):
Okay, and I would think it would be the moon.
What do you think?
Ron Brecher (09:01):
they took a picture of first the moon and I'm gonna
ask a question is it, does ithave to be a photograph, or can
it be a daguerreotype?
Rob Webb (09:10):
It can be a daguerreotype.
Ron Brecher (09:12):
Oh yeah, so I think it was a daguerreotype of the
moon and I think it was 1883.
Rob Webb (09:18):
Oh, even earlier than that, it was 1840.
Wow, 1840.
Ron Brecher (09:26):
And that was a daguerreotype on it, but I just
couldn't remember the year.
Rob Webb (09:32):
Yeah, it was.
It kind of has this weird andI'll show it up here for you
guys but for people who arelistening like it's this black
and white looking photo and youcan tell that there's a picture
of the moon, but it kind oflooks like you know that, like
30s animation or whatever, wherethe moon had like something in
(09:55):
its eye Smashing Pumpkins did avideo about it and it's got all
these little like bubbles andkinds of things.
But it's definitely the moonand you're right, that is a
daguerreotype right there.
Well done.
Dave Farina (10:07):
What is a daguerreotype?
Because I honestly don't have aclue what that is.
Rob Webb (10:11):
I'm gonna leave that to Ron.
Ron Brecher (10:14):
I didn't explain the technology, but it was a
precursor to photography withsilver plates.
Dave Farina (10:21):
Okay, interesting.
Rob Webb (10:23):
Yeah, they were talking about like wet methods
or something here.
Okay, so next one.
Okay, Ron, you're winning rightnow.
The.
When was the first spectra of astar recorded?
Dave Farina (10:37):
Am I still answering first?
Yes, the first spectra of astar.
I'm gonna go with the night.
Well, okay.
So back this up.
I know that in the Hubble era,when actual Edwin Hubble was
(10:58):
doing things, that there wassome spectroscopy being done
already, believe.
So I'm gonna say 1910.
Ron Brecher (11:10):
Okay, Ron, I'm gonna say a little bit later
1920s.
Rob Webb (11:18):
Sorry to tell you but you're both like 40 years off.
It was 1863.
Wow, the English chemistWilliam Allen Miller and English
astronomer Sir William Hugginsused the wet colloidian plate
process to get the first everphotographic spectrogram of a
star.
And they actually did two stars.
(11:38):
They did Sirius, makes sense,it's the brightest one and they
also did Capella.
So Wow, cool.
But, okay, no points for eitherof you on that one All right
let's all right last one, andthen we'll get into.
Yeah, we'll get into.
So now, lastly, what is thishobby that we're talking about
actually called?
Is it A astral photography, bstarving artistry, c old man
(12:08):
yells at cloud, or D your secondmortgage?
Dave Farina (12:14):
Could there be another one for all of the above
?
Rob Webb (12:18):
Secret answer E E all the above you got it, you got it
, I got it.
Really, yep, that was it.
Dave Farina (12:26):
That was it.
Rob Webb (12:26):
You win, although, Ron , would you like to also pick E
yeah.
Ron Brecher (12:31):
I'll pick E.
Rob Webb (12:32):
OK, there you go.
Well, now our guest has won.
So well done.
Dave Farina (12:37):
Good work, good work Is there some good trivia
there, rob See a little bitdifficult to get the exact dates
, but I'm pretty happy with myresults.
Rob Webb (12:48):
Yeah, not bad, not bad 40 years off, oh well, Now, I
knew none of this as ofyesterday.
So so, speaking of sciencecommunication and what we do
here, I guess you startedtalking about what got you into
(13:09):
astrophotography and you kind ofgot that itch from seeing that
photo in there and then you haveto scratch that itch.
But so once you got intoastrophotography, how did you
start getting into actuallyteaching it to other people and
why are you doing that?
Ron Brecher (13:29):
Well, I've always been a teacher and I'm a
communicator by nature.
I always have been so in thedaytime world.
I have a PhD in biomedicalchemistry and I've been a
consultant for 35 years intoxicology, and part of that
work a lot of that work in factinvolves communication.
(13:53):
So half of my practice is abouthelping scientists communicate
complicated ideas moreeffectively.
So I love to teach, I love towrite.
What had to happen for me to beable to do that about
astrophotography is I had to getgood enough that people want to
(14:13):
get that stuff from me, and Istruggled with Photoshop and
some other somewhere for quite awhile and then I got a friend
of mine challenged me to tryPixinsite, and so I took
Photoshop off my machine.
I tried Pixinsite, struggledwith that for a while, but then
(14:37):
I found this website.
It was a.
You purchase these sets oftutorials called IP4APcom image
processing for astrophotography,and there were three sets of
about 24 minute tutorials and Ilike I ate them for breakfast
(14:58):
and I really learned Pixinsiteto the point that I wrote to the
owners of the website and saidhere's some before and after I
learned your stuff.
The owners of the website, ofcourse, were Warren Keller and
Pete Pru, who are now mypartners Because I like to teach
(15:20):
and write.
Warren asked me to be thetechnical reviewer for his book
Insighted Pixinsite and I didthat both editions.
But that is how our relationshipgot started.
And then we decided to startteaching live workshops, and we
started doing that in 2017.
(15:41):
When the pandemic hit, that hadto stop.
Obviously, we had to cancel twoworkshops that were booked.
So they were booked for thespring of 2020.
Three days before the Buffaloworkshop is when they basically
closed the border and wecouldn't continue.
(16:06):
But you can't keep a good mandown.
And it didn't take long beforeI don't remember who which one
of us had the idea to see if wecould do some virtual workshops.
That turned into Masters ofPixinsite, and IP for AP now is
part of Masters of Pixinsite.
(16:26):
So Masters of Pixinsite has tworeal components.
One is a series of workshopsand we run those online about
once or twice a month and youjust pay to attend that workshop
.
If you attend a workshop youcan attend it Any time.
(16:46):
We repeat the same workshop youattend for free.
The other part of Masters ofPixinsite is what used to be IP
for AP and that's a monthly orannual subscription and there
are hundreds of videos anywherefrom two minutes to 15 minutes
(17:07):
long that provide you know up todate, quick tips.
You know how to get aroundcertain window settings, a
problem that you might beexperiencing, a quick way to fix
it, a new way to do something,introduce a new tool or a new
script.
And if you I should say if youwant to check that out if you go
(17:32):
to mastersofpixinsightcom,there is a one week free trial
for IP for AP image processingfor astrophotography.
So you can try that for a weekand explore.
There's my own little sectionin IP for AP is called Astrodocs
Corner, so go and check thatout.
There's everything from soup tonuts in there in terms of ways
(17:56):
to get more proficient atfixinsight and also for anybody
who comes to any workshop orsubscribes to an IP for AP.
You get to come to our freequarterly workshops.
They're called quick tips.
We do one about every threemonths.
We have one coming up, actuallyon the 26th I think you heard
(18:16):
about it.
Warren's going to be showingyou about it.
It's in used telescope livedata.
So you know, like I said, youcan't keep a good man down.
We're really passionate aboutdoing this.
Masters of Pixinsight is aboutmaking our customers the
ministers, and you know like Ihave, warren and I both have a
(18:38):
bunch of private students.
I have, I think, five that havewon NASA APODs.
Dave Farina (18:45):
That's got to be rewarding to you, yeah.
Ron Brecher (18:48):
Oh, it's fantastic.
And you know, not just APODs,but image of the day on an
astrophotopie which you know maybe more prestigious, I think,
than an APOD because there'smore people involved in judging
it Right.
You know More organic.
Dave Farina (19:06):
Yep.
Ron Brecher (19:08):
And that is also why I write for Sky and
Telescope and amateur astronomyand BBC Sky at night.
I love to write, so I startedwriting for Sky and Tel, just
wrote one piece for them andthat turned into a couple of
pieces a year and now four orfive pieces a year.
(19:29):
And now I'm on the masthead asa contributing editor which,
like imagine all those years ago.
I'm looking at a Sky andTelescope, thinking, oh man, I
have to try this.
And now I'm.
My own articles are in there.
It's crazy.
Dave Farina (19:45):
That's so cool, very cool.
Ron Brecher (19:47):
It's nutty.
Dave Farina (19:48):
So so where is the coolest place that you've ever
done astronomy?
Ron Brecher (19:56):
Oh boy, probably the coolest place would be at a
construction site in the westcoast of Costa Rica.
Dave Farina (20:09):
A construction site , a construction site so a
construction site, so we had notwhat I was expecting at all.
Ron Brecher (20:16):
Yeah, we were looking to get some.
We were looking to get someproperty going and do like an
astronomers bed and breakfast upin the mountains on the west
coast of Costa Rica.
Didn't pan out long story butwhile that was all kind of in
the planning stages, we weregoing down there at times a year
and where we lived the skieswere not that bright, or were
(20:42):
not that dark because there waslocal lighting everywhere.
But if you walked five minutesup the road, turned right and
went down into the valley therewas a construction site, a big
clearing, and that was probablythe coolest, spookiest, most
frightening place I ever wasbecause there was all kinds of
(21:04):
weird jungle noises and animalsthat you don't recognize, but I
was in a group.
We were doing visual astronomyand the highlight for me was
seeing the sculptor galaxy likein your face NGC 253, in your
face.
And the other highlight sametime was with binoculars.
(21:30):
I had 10 by 42 image stabilizedbinoculars, so about a four
degree field looking atAndromeda and it overflowing the
field.
Rob Webb (21:43):
Oh really.
Oh, that's great.
Ron Brecher (21:45):
It was crazy.
So, yeah, that was the coolestplace I ever observed.
I'm not really that excited, Igo to store parties.
Rob Webb (21:56):
I like visual observing when I'm.
Ron Brecher (21:59):
I don't do imaging, usually when I travel.
Dave Farina (22:04):
Okay, it's two.
What portal class are you in atyour house?
Ron Brecher (22:09):
About a five and a half five six.
Dave Farina (22:12):
Oh, okay.
Ron Brecher (22:13):
Yeah, not.
You know it's not great, butit's not bad.
You can work with it.
Dave Farina (22:18):
Right, yeah, the right filters, especially yeah.
Ron Brecher (22:22):
The right filters are the right strategies.
Rob Webb (22:26):
Okay.
Ron Brecher (22:26):
You know, the most light polluted part of my sky is
the east.
Anything that's in the east isgoing to be in the west in a few
hours.
Dave Farina (22:35):
Sure.
Ron Brecher (22:36):
Right, Um, I have an auto mall to myself about two
and a half miles away and thatruins my southern sky up to
about 40 degrees.
So I just don't shoot below 40degrees.
You know, you make it work.
Dave Farina (22:53):
Yep.
Ron Brecher (22:55):
And you know I have access to all kinds of remote
data, but I I never feel likethat's mine.
Uh, I rarely process otherpeople's data for teaching.
I'd rather struggle with thedata that I can get from home.
Rob Webb (23:12):
Oh, that's interesting because I sort of look at a lot
of the astrophotography stuff.
I look at it as people tryingto do, trying to get like the
best data, the most data,process it as much as you
possibly can, in a sense.
Now this is coming.
We talked a little bit beforethe interview that, like, I'm a
very, very, very newbie to thissort of astrophotography and I
(23:37):
usually just take my camera out,my DSLR, and try to get those
one shots, but it feels like itfeels like you would actually
want to get that data from abigger telescope that you still
have access to and process thatdata.
But you're telling me youreally you would rather have
your hands in every part of it.
Ron Brecher (23:58):
I wouldn't say I'm after the best data, but after
the most fun.
Okay, so my wife says this lifeis short and then you die.
Right, and I.
What fun is it just gettingdata from someone else?
Well, when it's cloudy or ifyou don't have a telescope,
(24:24):
that's definitely an option.
And you know when, when I'munable to handle getting my own
data myself, I'm going to usethose remote sources.
Of course I am.
How can you argue with Hubbleand web data?
Everybody can get that, youknow.
Yeah, but if I really after themost fun, I got to be gathering
(24:49):
the lightness Right.
I got to be struggling with allthe problems.
The drivers and windows upunscheduled windows I've written
articles about this.
Undischeduled windows updates,family commitments, clouds work.
(25:09):
How much time do you actuallyget Exactly?
Rob Webb (25:15):
Exactly.
I think that's actually one ofthe reasons why I like using my
DSLR, because I can set up oractually even my phone.
Now I can set it up and get itout there, take a bunch of
different shots, as long as I'mnot trying to take a 30-minute
shot.
I can just keep taking them andtaking them and experimenting,
(25:36):
and then I have one in front ofme.
My question to you now is I'vegot that, I know how to operate
a DSLR camera for the most part.
What would be the next steps?
Because I'm looking at what I'mdoing here is nice and easy.
Then I see PICS Insight as thatsuper-duper camera, Swiss Army
(26:01):
knife type of thing.
How do I go from DSLR cameraphotography to a PICS Insight
level type of thing?
Ron Brecher (26:12):
Well, so let's break that down into a few parts
.
First of all, you've onlytalked about the camera.
You haven't talked about theupdates.
I don't know.
Rob Webb (26:24):
About the what time.
Ron Brecher (26:24):
DSLR.
You talk about the camera, theDSLR, versus, say, a Fult
Astronomical camera.
Okay, but what about the optics?
If you're planning on using aDSLR lens, stick with the DSLR.
So the next step.
(26:45):
So now move to a different partof your question.
If you wanted to move from DSLRto something else, what would
it be?
If it's for deep skyastrophotography, it would be a
cool one-shot color CMOS camera.
It's going to feel very, verymuch like your DSLR in use.
(27:06):
The differences is thetemperature of the chip will be
stable, okay, which permits youto easily calibrate your images.
And we were talking about thewhole notion of science and
being scientists.
The best data is calibrateddata.
(27:29):
The pictures that come in rawcontain photons that you don't
want in them from the darkcorner of the camera, from the
bias signal that got added andfrom the optical properties of
your system that might give youvignetting the presence of
(27:52):
things like dust particles onthe sensor or the filter.
So, having that stabletemperature allows you to
calibrate your frames and getrid of all that unwanted junk
that's impacting the quality ofyour picture Now what if I
didn't have the money to buy oneof the one-shot color CMOS
(28:15):
cameras?
Rob Webb (28:18):
Like, what is something that I could do with
still just my DSLR?
Like, can I use DSLR picturesor images in Pixinsight and all
that?
Ron Brecher (28:29):
Yeah, pixinsight will process any type of image
file.
So my CMOS cooled CMOS camerahas the same sensor in it as a
Nikon D850 camera.
There's no difference in thesensor.
The difference is in the backof the sensor.
(28:50):
I have a cooler, you don't.
That's the difference.
Rob Webb (28:56):
OK.
So then because?
So what you're saying is thatbecause the sensor stays cooled,
there's fewer artifacts in thepictures.
So then when I want to processthem because I don't process
anything right now if I do wantto process them, that's going to
make them easier to work with,is that?
Ron Brecher (29:16):
what you're saying.
It'll improve your signal tonoise ratio.
Ok, yes, but not only will theraw image be cleaner to start
with, but because of the stabletemperature of the sensor, it's
very easy to make calibrationframes, bias, dark and flat
(29:36):
frames.
That will further clean up thatimage.
So, whether you stack or youdon't stack, you'll end up with
a cleaner image.
You don't have to stack OK, okand pick.
(29:56):
So then the other aspect ofthis is astrophotography isn't
one great big ball of stuff thatyou have to know all at the
same time.
Right, I know people who willnever learn how to collimate or
operate a telescope, becausethey use a remote telescope and
(30:18):
have the data gathered.
They want to process the dataand make pictures.
There's other people.
I have a friend in Australiawho makes telescopes, likes to
gather the data but doesn't wantto process it.
He gives it to me to process.
Rob Webb (30:36):
Yeah, that might be where I'm kind of at.
Ron Brecher (30:40):
I'm trying to say there's a couple of completely
independent skill sets requiredfor astrophotography.
Right Acquisition is one thing.
Processing is another.
So you can learn how to processdata from any source, ok, and
get good at that, while you'restill learning how to acquire
(31:02):
your own good data.
Rob Webb (31:05):
Yeah, I think this it's such an interesting idea to
go into this.
It's one of those things thatI've been wanting to do.
I have a couple sets where Itook like 10 pictures of the
same thing with my telescope ona mountain and I tried and it
didn't work.
It sounds like I wish I couldhave just like a one-on-one.
(31:30):
Here are 10 of my pictures ofthe Pleiades Show me how to
stack them, show me how to dothe bias and the other things
and sort of do that step by step.
I think that's kind of the typeof thing that, as a real brand
(31:50):
newbie, like that's the kind ofthing I'm looking for, because
it can look like a huge hurdle.
Ron Brecher (31:57):
There's that article that was it's part of
the download package from theworkshop that you attended the
other night.
It's in Sky and Telescope from2017.
And it's called DemystifyingImage Calibration and it
actually tells you how toacquire the calibration frames.
(32:17):
Ok, Now if you're using a DSLR,you have a few challenges
because you don't have thetemperature regulation Right.
So if I'm imaging at minus,with my sensor at minus 10, I
shoot minus 10 darks.
But you can't really do that.
So what you kind of have to dois shoot some darks at the
(32:42):
beginning of your session, pausein the middle and shoot some
more, and then at the end shootsome more, okay, and throw those
all in a pot and on average,your frames will be okay, okay.
Rob Webb (33:01):
So let me ask you this what would be the one skill
Like for me who's just done DSLRsingle shot stuff, what would
be the one skill that would giveme the biggest bang for my buck
in the images that I'm making?
Like, what's the one skill thatyou think would really make
them pop better, Even if it'sjust doing the dark frames or
(33:24):
just learning how to stack orwhatever?
What do you think would be thebiggest bang for my buck in one
skill?
Ron Brecher (33:34):
I think, learning how to stop, because if you can
shoot one frame, you can shoot16.
And if you can combine those 16, you're going to get an
improvement in the image and thesignal to noise ratio.
No model what else you do withit.
An image composed of 16 subs isgoing to be better than one
(33:59):
composed of a single five minutesub.
So if you're already able toget a good quality single sub,
get good at combining 16 or 20subs.
Rob Webb (34:13):
Okay, all right, that gives me a good direction,
because I'm just looking and,like whoever was Emerson or
somebody, two paths diverged inthe wood.
I'm looking at 16 differentpaths right in front of me.
Ron Brecher (34:29):
Even if you don't want to calibrate your frames.
You just want to align themtogether and stack them.
You can do that in weightedbatch reprocessing.
You don't need calibrationframes.
So if you can shoot a singleframe, you can shoot 20.
Just load those 20 into thescript.
It'll scream at you and tellyou that there's no calibration
(34:52):
frames and you did somethingwrong.
Just click through it and it'llrun.
Dave Farina (34:57):
You know it's interesting.
I've kind of gone through thejourney for the past seven or
eight years and I've gotten allthe way to the point where I was
using monochrome filter wheels,the whole thing.
Sometimes it's just nice tostep back and shoot some
(35:20):
pictures with the DSLRmirrorless camera.
There's nothing wrong with kindof working backwards if you're
hitting a plateau or if you'refeeling like you're hitting a
wall.
It's kind of where I've whatI've done recently.
I have some kids now and I haveless time and my skill set is
(35:42):
rusty and I just took a fewsteps back and I said you know
what I really need to startfresh and have some successes,
because I was having a lot ofgremlins in my process and
having issues and I just took mymirrorless camera out and
hooked it up one night to thetelescope and just took some
(36:05):
images and I was like, wow, thisis kind of cathartic to be able
to have some success like that.
So you know, don't try to gotoo fast would be my suggestion.
You know.
Let it kind of naturally makeits way through.
You know your interest and youknow if you feel like you want
(36:27):
to try a new thing, only changeone thing at a time.
You know the scientific processand that way your your skill
set doesn't grow beyond youractual ability to do anything
with it, because you know somepeople try to buy their way
through this hobby and it'sreally not going to work.
(36:47):
The knowledge base is required.
Ron Brecher (36:52):
Yeah, and you know, the move from a DSLR to a one
shot color cooled CMOS camera.
You'll find it.
I think you'll find it reallyeasy and you'll find that it
actually simplifies your imagingand improves your result.
However, it's not free, right.
Rob Webb (37:16):
Right.
Ron Brecher (37:18):
So you asked about that.
You asked about that before,though, rob, and I wanted to say
there's a very robust usedmarket for cameras.
Dave Farina (37:27):
Okay, I would say it's probably also a good idea,
if you're already on a DSLR, toconsider trying to hook it up to
a laptop, because if you'regoing to be going to a one shot
color astronomy camera, most ofthem you need to hook up to a
laptop.
There are a few out there thatyou can use an intermediary
(37:49):
device, like a little RaspberryPi device, but most of the time
people are imaging using alaptop and that can be done also
with a DSLR.
There's a number of softwareout there that can handle that.
A lot of the software, in fact,can handle the DSLRs and
mirrorless cameras and it allowsyou to start to learn that
process too.
Ron Brecher (38:11):
Yeah, sgp, nina.
Of course Backyard EOS andBackyard Nikon.
Dave Farina (38:18):
Those are the ones I got started on.
Ron Brecher (38:20):
Yeah, yeah.
But you know, I think, ifyou're, I think I'm kind of
thinking what would I dodifferently if I was starting
over again?
I think I would have decidedsooner rather than later that
I'm crazy about this, and Iwould have just gone for what I
wanted right at the beginning.
Because, you mean in?
Rob Webb (38:42):
terms of spending money or buying.
Ron Brecher (38:44):
Yeah, you spend a lot of money buying and selling
stuff.
I agree with that.
If I'd known how passionate Iwas going to be about this, I
would have just bought all theright stuff at the beginning, as
soon as I could.
You know, I know you can't buyit all at once.
Rob Webb (39:02):
So if you were to start now, like, let's say,
somebody else is just going intothis now, knowing that you
would spend, knowing they'dspend a lot of money.
But where do you seeastrophotography going from here
?
Like, right now we've got CMOScameras.
I'm starting to see cell phonecameras being used more often.
Like, where do you see it goingin the next 10 years, so that
(39:27):
somebody who's wanting to getinto it can like ride that wave
now?
Ron Brecher (39:34):
Well, mounts.
So the mount is the heart ofany astrophotography rig.
It doesn't take the pictures,but it's the clock that
counteracts the rotation of theEarth.
Right, so it keeps everything.
Keeps your stars.
Ring Mounts are evolving quitea lot over the last few years.
(39:55):
We're seeing strain wave mountsthat work without
counterweights, no clutches, no,it doesn't matter as much.
On the software and camera, Idon't know how much the camera
hardware is going to evolve, butI think the sum of the firmware
is going to change.
(40:15):
Richard Wright Accidental Astrois his thing at all.
Richard Wright has writtenabout this in Sky and Telescope
and just to really quicklysummarize, there's going to be a
lot of things that happen inthe camera that right now we're
doing manually.
So, for example, you might takefive images in the camera and
(40:40):
have them calibrated in thecamera, registered and aligned,
and then saved as a single frame.
Dave Farina (40:46):
In fact, I had Richard on the last podcast that
we had about live stacking andastrophotography in the future
of it, and I believe that's whatyou're referencing.
So, yeah, guys, check that outif you haven't already listened
or watched the podcast withRichard Wright, because it's
extremely exciting.
What he believes is going to bethe next things in Astro.
Ron Brecher (41:09):
And to hear you say that Ron is exciting to have
that second opinion, just to beclear, though it's not really a
qualified opinion, it's anunderstanding that Richard is a
very, very insightfulastrophotographer and if he
thinks this is coming, it'scoming.
I've heard him talk about otherthings that were coming, that
(41:31):
came, so if Richard says it'scoming, I really believe it.
He's probably working on thesoftware to do it.
Rob Webb (41:40):
I think that would be amazing.
I've really enjoyed just thefact that the new phones they
take a bunch of frames and stackit in there already and you get
a decent picture.
I think it's amazing and I seeeverything just getting easier
and faster with that type oftechnology.
Maybe not as good, right,because when you have better
(42:04):
data you can make a betterpicture, but we're better.
Ron Brecher (42:08):
Yeah, but there's a lot to be said for fast and
easy.
When you're, say, a youngparent with limited time,
limited money, limited weather.
Sometimes fast is good enough,right, I'm lucky I have the
luxury of I now have the luxuryof an observatory.
(42:30):
I've got some good equipmentand.
OK skies, I'm just having a ballwith it, I just have fun with
it.
Ai is coming toastrophotography.
Yeah, it's not coming, it'shere.
Russ Krohman has three AI basedtools for Pixins.
I think some of them work withother stores as well.
(42:54):
Blur Exterminator, which is adeconvolution tool.
It makes images look sharper,although deconvolution is not
the same as sharpening.
We can have a conversationabout that sometime.
So he's got that deconvolutiontool.
He's got a star illuminationtool.
Star Exterminator Yep, that'sall the stars are going to do.
(43:14):
So, from an image processingpoint of view, it's really nice
to break your image up into Ithink of it in three sections
background, target, object andstars.
And if you can have those, ifyou can deal with each of them
as a separate challenge, you canend up with a really nice
(43:39):
picture.
So Star Exterminator helps withthat.
And then the last one is NoisixExterminator, which really has
to be seen to be believed.
It's by far the best noiseelimination tool that I've ever
seen in Pixinsite.
And not only that, but itactually gives you a little bit
(44:00):
of detail enhancement as well.
So AI is coming more and moreinto master photography and I
think that's kind of excitingand it's also kind of scary, but
you know, is it going to makeit more fun.
I like, for me it's all.
(44:21):
I really enjoy this so.
Dave Farina (44:25):
So the last thing I'll ask is you know I
personally, am you know, scienceteacher?
I come with the background ofyou know, trying to look at
these things from thatperspective.
I also have, you know, aninterest in the pretty picture
astrophotography stuff.
Do you have any interest in thescience?
(44:45):
Have you done anything with?
You know more of the datacollection side or trying to
capture some sort of an event?
Ron Brecher (44:56):
Not exactly, but I've been involved in a NASA
project to help remove cosmicray damage from images that they
take from the space station.
Oh cool.
So they have a project that wasworking out of the Rochester
Institute of Technology and Igot to hear Don Pettit.
(45:17):
He was one of the astronautsthat flew on the space station,
took a lot of photos and he gavea talk at NIA about a few years
ago.
Anyway, they use Nikon DSLRs onthe space station in the
Italian model called the cupolathat always faces Earth, and so
(45:39):
they've got a bunch of Nikoncameras.
They're taking pictures all thetime, but these sensors in the
camera build up damage fromcosmic ray hits and so they look
the pictures out of them havelike red, green and blue
spouting throughout them.
So, don Pettit, in his talk hesaid you know, if anybody has
(46:01):
any ideas about how we could fixthem, let me know.
And I thought about it a littlebit and came up with a way to
do it in its insight, and so wasinvited to be part of that.
That's awesome, that team.
Yeah, it was really cool.
I got my name on NASAletterhead.
Rob Webb (46:22):
Oh, fantastic For the meeting.
Ron Brecher (46:24):
Yeah, that's a win.
And you also asked about thescience.
So every time I post a picture,I write about the object.
I'm a scientist by day.
I'm very interested in thecosmos from, let's say, an
academic perspective.
I'm very interested when I'mdoing astrophotography.
(46:47):
For me, it's mostly aboutmaking pretty pictures, but when
I'm posting, I want to tell thestory of the object, and I want
to.
I also give all my processingdetails, so I want to tell the
story of how I made the picture.
Dave Farina (47:03):
Right, you capture the mind and the heart at the
same time with some of thesepictures.
It's amazing.
Ron Brecher (47:08):
That's what it does .
For me, it's like anintellectual pursuit that
exposes beauty that you couldnever see.
Right, it's a lot of good checkboxes for me.
Rob Webb (47:26):
Right, right, yeah, I think that's why we all enjoy it
too, and I think one of thecool things about
astrophotography, especiallysome of the deep sky stuff, is
you're picking up on things withthose cameras that you can't
see without a camera.
I think that's pretty amazing.
I want to share a little memewith you and I want to see what
(47:48):
you think of this.
Tell us what people are missingabout this one.
Now for the audience who'slistening.
What we're going to look at is apicture, and just think of the
moon.
Think of the full moon on abeautiful night.
It's a little bit cloudy.
You can see the moon, you cansee the craters, you can see the
(48:11):
maria, you can sort of see theclouds around, and it's just
phenomenal.
And then you go to take apicture of it with your cell
phone and it's just junk, right.
I mean, even with my DSLR, Isee something like that top
(48:32):
picture with the moon that looksjust gorgeous and beautiful.
And I take out my DSLR and itjust doesn't match up.
What do you think for normalpeople out there?
Like what do they forget?
Like what do they not know?
Ron Brecher (48:49):
based on that, the moon is really tiny, yeah, and
far away.
If you hold your arm up atarm's length with your baby
finger sticking out, yourfingernail of your baby finger
will cover the moon.
That's how small it is on thesky, yeah.
(49:09):
So now do that with anythingelse in your surroundings and
take a picture with your cellphone.
It's gonna be small.
Dave Farina (49:19):
Yep For sure.
Ron Brecher (49:21):
And if it's not, it's gonna be blurry because the
autofocus mechanisms don't workproperly.
Dave Farina (49:27):
And the other weird thing is how it looks different
at the horizon.
But it's actually no different.
It's just an optical illusion.
You can do the exact same thingwith your finger.
You can hold it out and it'sthe same exact size as it is
when it's up in the sky, andlots of people you know, and
myself included, kind of thatoptical illusion catches you.
(49:49):
But once you do that littletest it's obvious that it's just
that.
Rob Webb (49:55):
I've always been impressed with the way our eyes
can really, really our brainsinterpret the image to have such
high dynamic range where we cansee the Mario, but then we can
also see the stars behind themoon.
But when you get a camera out,you just even a DSLR like you
can't quite get that same highdynamic range.
(50:16):
And there are ways to do that,I know, but it's pretty amazing.
Our brains are amazinglyterrible pattern-seeking
machines.
Ron Brecher (50:24):
Oh yeah, crazy.
Rob Webb (50:26):
How can people find you on the internet, and is
there anything that else thatyou would like to plug tonight?
Ron Brecher (50:33):
My website is astrodocca.
You can find me atmastersofpixinsightcom, and you
can also find me at my emailaddress or on Facebook.
My email address isarbreacheratrodgerscom.
That's R-B-R-E-Z-H-E-R atRogers arrow-g-e-r-scom, and you
(50:58):
can message me on Facebook.
If you want lessons, just reachout, go to the website.
Every picture I post tons ofinformation, all my articles
that I'm writing up there.
There's nothing for purchase onthat website.
It's all.
Everything up there is free toaccess.
Enjoy it.
Dave Farina (51:21):
Ron, I'm gonna put you on the spot here.
Rob, as he said, is justgetting started.
Your recommendation to do somestacking of images was, I think,
spot on and I know that yourexperience here in Pixinsight is
(51:42):
second to none.
I'd love to have you back atsome point to discuss how that
process works, if you'reinterested.
Would you be interested to comeback on sometime with us and
maybe take Rob through thatprocess?
Ron Brecher (51:57):
I'd love to come back on the show.
I like doing things like this,and maybe what we can do is take
a one-shot color master and putit through an abbreviated
workflow that gives a reallynice result in nine or 10 steps,
but to be fair, it's still nineor 10 tools that you have to
(52:19):
learn how to use.
I have friends who are greatcarpenters.
You could give me the besthammer in the world.
I could never build you a housebecause I don't know how to use
it.
Right, but you could give them apretty mediocre hammer and
they'll still build you a reallygood hammer, right?
Yeah, so you have to put in thetime to learn how to use the
(52:41):
tools.
Dave Farina (52:43):
Well, we really appreciate you coming on.
I'm looking forward to thatnext time.
Guys, this is only possible byhaving the support of our
audience and if you could helpus out, we are trying to grow
our Patreon.
I know that there's people whoare listening right now.
(53:05):
If you haven't seen Ron'simages, check out his website
once again at stroaddocca andRob, thank you again for your
amazing and very difficulttrivia.
Rob Webb (53:27):
You're very welcome, happy to help.
All right, everybody.
Dave Farina (53:31):
Thank you so much, and clear skies, as Ron would
say.
Ron Brecher (53:36):
See you later gang.
Rob Webb (53:38):
See ya.
Ron Brecher (53:51):
See ya tomorrow.
I'm Dave and I'm Rob, the last minute astronomer.
Dave Farina (00:14):
And we're here with Ron Breacher and I just had an
opportunity to see Ron's Mastersworkshop the other night.
How are you doing, Ron?
Ron Brecher (00:22):
I'm doing great Awesome.
Really nice to be here.
Dave Farina (00:26):
Excellent.
So, ron, can you just kind ofgive us some background?
How did you get started withastrophotography?
I mean, this is such an amazinghobby.
I've been doing it for a numberof years and I know that a lot
of our guests are probablyinterested in learning more.
Our listeners are from variousbackgrounds, but many, I believe
(00:50):
, are at some point interestedin looking at astrophotography
at least, or maybe even doing itthemselves.
So how did you get involved?
Ron Brecher (00:58):
Well, you know, I started out as a visual
astronomer and I'm still areally passionate visual
astronomer.
You might have seen a postyesterday or today of my wife
and I.
We had a bunch of people out inthe driveway last night with a
couple of like a 10 inch and a20 inch one looking at the moon
and planets and a few deep skyobjects.
(01:20):
So visual first for me andastrophotography came later.
So visual astronomy everybodywho does it has a creation story
.
Mine has like four legs on thestool.
I started really in 1997 when wemoved into the house that I
(01:42):
live in now.
My wife was pregnant with mydaughter in my second child and
my son was about three and ahalf years old.
So we moved to the country andthe skies are kind of dark,
which was cool to start with.
My old bank said you have allthese visa points.
(02:03):
Before we close down yourmortgage and your visa, do you
want to use your points to takesomething from our catalog?
And I got what I thought was atoy telescope for my son.
It turned out it was a four anda half inch reflector and it
was good enough that I saw themoon and Jupiter and Saturn,
(02:26):
which completely blew me away.
Meanwhile my daughter was bornand my daughter was colicky, so
she screamed a lot at night andthe way I soothed her was to put
her over my, over my forearmand walk her up and down the
driveway until she settled down.
And so I'm walking up and downthe driveway with this darker
(02:49):
sky and getting hooked on thestars.
I have this really cheaptelescope that got me hooked,
but it's really unsanalsmining,hard to find anything, it's
rickety and so on.
Anyway, christmas comes alongand my business partner gives me
(03:11):
Terrence Dickinson's book NightWatch.
A lot of astronomers getstarted with that book Night
Watch, and I did.
I read it from cover to coverand I was particularly
interested in chapter four,which was choosing and using the
telescope.
And they had a sidebar articlewith a picture of my telescope
(03:37):
entitled Junk Scopes from Asia.
So so I realized that it wasn'tme that was the weak link here
and I took my bonus money thatyear and bought a real telescope
in ultimate 2000 and neverlooked back.
(03:59):
I mean, I've had manytelescopes since then, but
that's how I got startedvisually.
And then I got into Sky andTelescope and Astronomy Magazine
and so on.
Oh wait, I just got a circle.
Back to Night Watch for asecond.
The fifth edition of NightWatch was just released a week
or two ago.
My photo's on the cover I sawthat.
Dave Farina (04:20):
That is so awesome.
Congratulations on that.
Ron Brecher (04:24):
I can't tell you Terrence Dickinson picked that
photo and you know, he'sresponsible for so many of us
getting into this hobby.
But to your first question howdid I get into astrophotography?
So now I've done visual.
(04:44):
I'm doing visual for a whileand I tried not to use.
I didn't use the computer much.
Basically I would use aflashlight and a start chart and
I kept a.
I'm just going to step up for asecond.
I want to grab a dish or a leaf.
Dave Farina (05:07):
I have a three volume handwritten log.
Ron Brecher (05:10):
Here's my volume one of my logbook, and I kept
this log for years until Istarted astrophotography and I
did some sketches Nothing reallyfancy.
I've got a.
My very first photos are inhere, so this is July 2002.
(05:31):
I took a picture of somesunspots by holding up a camera
to a camera, but one day, 2002.
You were doing film at first.
That was film, yeah, so thatwas film.
Dave Farina (05:47):
We'll have to circle back to that a little
later.
Ron Brecher (05:50):
Yeah, I did film.
It was hard with film butregardless where I that was just
denigling, when I really gothooked was around 2006 or so.
I got an issue of sky andtelescope.
By this time I really knew myway around this plan and had
(06:11):
favorite objects and so on, andone of them is globular cluster
M13.
Love it visually.
Dave Farina (06:18):
Yeah, it's beautiful, Definitely the my
favorite globular cluster also.
Ron Brecher (06:24):
Yeah, but there was a in the back of sky and
telescope.
There's a reader gallery,reader photos.
There was a picture of M13.
And I read the credit and itwas shot with the same DSLR that
I owned and a scope similar toone that I owned.
(06:47):
And I went to my wife and Isaid I've got to try this, I
have to do this.
Rob Webb (06:55):
There you go, got you hooked.
Ron Brecher (06:56):
Oh my goodness, there's no right.
I was absolutely hooked, sothat would have been around 2006
.
For my 50th birthday in 2009,gail bought me an observatory on
the other side of my driveway.
We had Wayne Parker from SkyShed installed Nice and he and I
(07:21):
sat on a couch and drank beerin my driveway while the
installers erected that shed andthen, when they went away, we
got the pier installed and I wasimaging the same night.
Dave Farina (07:34):
Wow, and that yeah.
Ron Brecher (07:36):
And you know I've had all kinds of equipment
changes since then, but that'show I got started.
Dave Farina (07:44):
That's a great story and the observatory.
Ron Brecher (07:47):
That's a game changer in terms of productivity
.
It's you don't spend timesetting up and tearing down and
flat you know.
Flat frames last until a speckof dust from somewhere.
You know, they've lasted a longtime.
Rob Webb (08:05):
Speaking of the first astrophotography you were doing
and seeing what other peoplecould do, I have a little three
question trivia for the three ofyou.
Okay, let's see what you getNow.
Let's see, dave, you have toanswer first okay.
And Ron's gonna answer afterthat, okay.
Dave Farina (08:25):
All right.
Rob Webb (08:26):
First question is when was the first photograph of an
astronomical object taken, andwhat was it of?
Dave Farina (08:36):
I don't know.
Rob Webb (08:42):
You're first Dave and it's not multiple choice, so you
just kind of have to go.
Dave Farina (08:48):
This is hard and I do not know the answer, so I'm
gonna give you a ballpark thatit was the late 1800s.
Rob Webb (08:58):
Okay, and I would think it would be the moon.
What do you think?
Ron Brecher (09:01):
they took a picture of first the moon and I'm gonna
ask a question is it, does ithave to be a photograph, or can
it be a daguerreotype?
Rob Webb (09:10):
It can be a daguerreotype.
Ron Brecher (09:12):
Oh yeah, so I think it was a daguerreotype of the
moon and I think it was 1883.
Rob Webb (09:18):
Oh, even earlier than that, it was 1840.
Wow, 1840.
Ron Brecher (09:26):
And that was a daguerreotype on it, but I just
couldn't remember the year.
Rob Webb (09:32):
Yeah, it was.
It kind of has this weird andI'll show it up here for you
guys but for people who arelistening like it's this black
and white looking photo and youcan tell that there's a picture
of the moon, but it kind oflooks like you know that, like
30s animation or whatever, wherethe moon had like something in
(09:55):
its eye Smashing Pumpkins did avideo about it and it's got all
these little like bubbles andkinds of things.
But it's definitely the moonand you're right, that is a
daguerreotype right there.
Well done.
Dave Farina (10:07):
What is a daguerreotype?
Because I honestly don't have aclue what that is.
Rob Webb (10:11):
I'm gonna leave that to Ron.
Ron Brecher (10:14):
I didn't explain the technology, but it was a
precursor to photography withsilver plates.
Dave Farina (10:21):
Okay, interesting.
Rob Webb (10:23):
Yeah, they were talking about like wet methods
or something here.
Okay, so next one.
Okay, Ron, you're winning rightnow.
The.
When was the first spectra of astar recorded?
Dave Farina (10:37):
Am I still answering first?
Yes, the first spectra of astar.
I'm gonna go with the night.
Well, okay.
So back this up.
I know that in the Hubble era,when actual Edwin Hubble was
(10:58):
doing things, that there wassome spectroscopy being done
already, believe.
So I'm gonna say 1910.
Ron Brecher (11:10):
Okay, Ron, I'm gonna say a little bit later
1920s.
Rob Webb (11:18):
Sorry to tell you but you're both like 40 years off.
It was 1863.
Wow, the English chemistWilliam Allen Miller and English
astronomer Sir William Hugginsused the wet colloidian plate
process to get the first everphotographic spectrogram of a
star.
And they actually did two stars.
(11:38):
They did Sirius, makes sense,it's the brightest one and they
also did Capella.
So Wow, cool.
But, okay, no points for eitherof you on that one All right
let's all right last one, andthen we'll get into.
Yeah, we'll get into.
So now, lastly, what is thishobby that we're talking about
actually called?
Is it A astral photography, bstarving artistry, c old man
(12:08):
yells at cloud, or D your secondmortgage?
Dave Farina (12:14):
Could there be another one for all of the above
?
Rob Webb (12:18):
Secret answer E E all the above you got it, you got it
, I got it.
Really, yep, that was it.
Dave Farina (12:26):
That was it.
Rob Webb (12:26):
You win, although, Ron , would you like to also pick E
yeah.
Ron Brecher (12:31):
I'll pick E.
Rob Webb (12:32):
OK, there you go.
Well, now our guest has won.
So well done.
Dave Farina (12:37):
Good work, good work Is there some good trivia
there, rob See a little bitdifficult to get the exact dates
, but I'm pretty happy with myresults.
Rob Webb (12:48):
Yeah, not bad, not bad 40 years off, oh well, Now, I
knew none of this as ofyesterday.
So so, speaking of sciencecommunication and what we do
here, I guess you startedtalking about what got you into
(13:09):
astrophotography and you kind ofgot that itch from seeing that
photo in there and then you haveto scratch that itch.
But so once you got intoastrophotography, how did you
start getting into actuallyteaching it to other people and
why are you doing that?
Ron Brecher (13:29):
Well, I've always been a teacher and I'm a
communicator by nature.
I always have been so in thedaytime world.
I have a PhD in biomedicalchemistry and I've been a
consultant for 35 years intoxicology, and part of that
work a lot of that work in factinvolves communication.
(13:53):
So half of my practice is abouthelping scientists communicate
complicated ideas moreeffectively.
So I love to teach, I love towrite.
What had to happen for me to beable to do that about
astrophotography is I had to getgood enough that people want to
(14:13):
get that stuff from me, and Istruggled with Photoshop and
some other somewhere for quite awhile and then I got a friend
of mine challenged me to tryPixinsite, and so I took
Photoshop off my machine.
I tried Pixinsite, struggledwith that for a while, but then
(14:37):
I found this website.
It was a.
You purchase these sets oftutorials called IP4APcom image
processing for astrophotography,and there were three sets of
about 24 minute tutorials and Ilike I ate them for breakfast
(14:58):
and I really learned Pixinsiteto the point that I wrote to the
owners of the website and saidhere's some before and after I
learned your stuff.
The owners of the website, ofcourse, were Warren Keller and
Pete Pru, who are now mypartners Because I like to teach
(15:20):
and write.
Warren asked me to be thetechnical reviewer for his book
Insighted Pixinsite and I didthat both editions.
But that is how our relationshipgot started.
And then we decided to startteaching live workshops, and we
started doing that in 2017.
(15:41):
When the pandemic hit, that hadto stop.
Obviously, we had to cancel twoworkshops that were booked.
So they were booked for thespring of 2020.
Three days before the Buffaloworkshop is when they basically
closed the border and wecouldn't continue.
(16:06):
But you can't keep a good mandown.
And it didn't take long beforeI don't remember who which one
of us had the idea to see if wecould do some virtual workshops.
That turned into Masters ofPixinsite, and IP for AP now is
part of Masters of Pixinsite.
(16:26):
So Masters of Pixinsite has tworeal components.
One is a series of workshopsand we run those online about
once or twice a month and youjust pay to attend that workshop
.
If you attend a workshop youcan attend it Any time.
(16:46):
We repeat the same workshop youattend for free.
The other part of Masters ofPixinsite is what used to be IP
for AP and that's a monthly orannual subscription and there
are hundreds of videos anywherefrom two minutes to 15 minutes
(17:07):
long that provide you know up todate, quick tips.
You know how to get aroundcertain window settings, a
problem that you might beexperiencing, a quick way to fix
it, a new way to do something,introduce a new tool or a new
script.
And if you I should say if youwant to check that out if you go
(17:32):
to mastersofpixinsightcom,there is a one week free trial
for IP for AP image processingfor astrophotography.
So you can try that for a weekand explore.
There's my own little sectionin IP for AP is called Astrodocs
Corner, so go and check thatout.
There's everything from soup tonuts in there in terms of ways
(17:56):
to get more proficient atfixinsight and also for anybody
who comes to any workshop orsubscribes to an IP for AP.
You get to come to our freequarterly workshops.
They're called quick tips.
We do one about every threemonths.
We have one coming up, actuallyon the 26th I think you heard
(18:16):
about it.
Warren's going to be showingyou about it.
It's in used telescope livedata.
So you know, like I said, youcan't keep a good man down.
We're really passionate aboutdoing this.
Masters of Pixinsight is aboutmaking our customers the
ministers, and you know like Ihave, warren and I both have a
(18:38):
bunch of private students.
I have, I think, five that havewon NASA APODs.
Dave Farina (18:45):
That's got to be rewarding to you, yeah.
Ron Brecher (18:48):
Oh, it's fantastic.
And you know, not just APODs,but image of the day on an
astrophotopie which you know maybe more prestigious, I think,
than an APOD because there'smore people involved in judging
it Right.
You know More organic.
Dave Farina (19:06):
Yep.
Ron Brecher (19:08):
And that is also why I write for Sky and
Telescope and amateur astronomyand BBC Sky at night.
I love to write, so I startedwriting for Sky and Tel, just
wrote one piece for them andthat turned into a couple of
pieces a year and now four orfive pieces a year.
(19:29):
And now I'm on the masthead asa contributing editor which,
like imagine all those years ago.
I'm looking at a Sky andTelescope, thinking, oh man, I
have to try this.
And now I'm.
My own articles are in there.
It's crazy.
Dave Farina (19:45):
That's so cool, very cool.
Ron Brecher (19:47):
It's nutty.
Dave Farina (19:48):
So so where is the coolest place that you've ever
done astronomy?
Ron Brecher (19:56):
Oh boy, probably the coolest place would be at a
construction site in the westcoast of Costa Rica.
Dave Farina (20:09):
A construction site , a construction site so a
construction site, so we had notwhat I was expecting at all.
Ron Brecher (20:16):
Yeah, we were looking to get some.
We were looking to get someproperty going and do like an
astronomers bed and breakfast upin the mountains on the west
coast of Costa Rica.
Didn't pan out long story butwhile that was all kind of in
the planning stages, we weregoing down there at times a year
and where we lived the skieswere not that bright, or were
(20:42):
not that dark because there waslocal lighting everywhere.
But if you walked five minutesup the road, turned right and
went down into the valley therewas a construction site, a big
clearing, and that was probablythe coolest, spookiest, most
frightening place I ever wasbecause there was all kinds of
(21:04):
weird jungle noises and animalsthat you don't recognize, but I
was in a group.
We were doing visual astronomyand the highlight for me was
seeing the sculptor galaxy likein your face NGC 253, in your
face.
And the other highlight sametime was with binoculars.
(21:30):
I had 10 by 42 image stabilizedbinoculars, so about a four
degree field looking atAndromeda and it overflowing the
field.
Rob Webb (21:43):
Oh really.
Oh, that's great.
Ron Brecher (21:45):
It was crazy.
So, yeah, that was the coolestplace I ever observed.
I'm not really that excited, Igo to store parties.
Rob Webb (21:56):
I like visual observing when I'm.
Ron Brecher (21:59):
I don't do imaging, usually when I travel.
Dave Farina (22:04):
Okay, it's two.
What portal class are you in atyour house?
Ron Brecher (22:09):
About a five and a half five six.
Dave Farina (22:12):
Oh, okay.
Ron Brecher (22:13):
Yeah, not.
You know it's not great, butit's not bad.
You can work with it.
Dave Farina (22:18):
Right, yeah, the right filters, especially yeah.
Ron Brecher (22:22):
The right filters are the right strategies.
Rob Webb (22:26):
Okay.
Ron Brecher (22:26):
You know, the most light polluted part of my sky is
the east.
Anything that's in the east isgoing to be in the west in a few
hours.
Dave Farina (22:35):
Sure.
Ron Brecher (22:36):
Right, Um, I have an auto mall to myself about two
and a half miles away and thatruins my southern sky up to
about 40 degrees.
So I just don't shoot below 40degrees.
You know, you make it work.
Dave Farina (22:53):
Yep.
Ron Brecher (22:55):
And you know I have access to all kinds of remote
data, but I I never feel likethat's mine.
Uh, I rarely process otherpeople's data for teaching.
I'd rather struggle with thedata that I can get from home.
Rob Webb (23:12):
Oh, that's interesting because I sort of look at a lot
of the astrophotography stuff.
I look at it as people tryingto do, trying to get like the
best data, the most data,process it as much as you
possibly can, in a sense.
Now this is coming.
We talked a little bit beforethe interview that, like, I'm a
very, very, very newbie to thissort of astrophotography and I
(23:37):
usually just take my camera out,my DSLR, and try to get those
one shots, but it feels like itfeels like you would actually
want to get that data from abigger telescope that you still
have access to and process thatdata.
But you're telling me youreally you would rather have
your hands in every part of it.
Ron Brecher (23:58):
I wouldn't say I'm after the best data, but after
the most fun.
Okay, so my wife says this lifeis short and then you die.
Right, and I.
What fun is it just gettingdata from someone else?
Well, when it's cloudy or ifyou don't have a telescope,
(24:24):
that's definitely an option.
And you know when, when I'munable to handle getting my own
data myself, I'm going to usethose remote sources.
Of course I am.
How can you argue with Hubbleand web data?
Everybody can get that, youknow.
Yeah, but if I really after themost fun, I got to be gathering
(24:49):
the lightness Right.
I got to be struggling with allthe problems.
The drivers and windows upunscheduled windows I've written
articles about this.
Undischeduled windows updates,family commitments, clouds work.
(25:09):
How much time do you actuallyget Exactly?
Rob Webb (25:15):
Exactly.
I think that's actually one ofthe reasons why I like using my
DSLR, because I can set up oractually even my phone.
Now I can set it up and get itout there, take a bunch of
different shots, as long as I'mnot trying to take a 30-minute
shot.
I can just keep taking them andtaking them and experimenting,
(25:36):
and then I have one in front ofme.
My question to you now is I'vegot that, I know how to operate
a DSLR camera for the most part.
What would be the next steps?
Because I'm looking at what I'mdoing here is nice and easy.
Then I see PICS Insight as thatsuper-duper camera, Swiss Army
(26:01):
knife type of thing.
How do I go from DSLR cameraphotography to a PICS Insight
level type of thing?
Ron Brecher (26:12):
Well, so let's break that down into a few parts
.
First of all, you've onlytalked about the camera.
You haven't talked about theupdates.
I don't know.
Rob Webb (26:24):
About the what time.
Ron Brecher (26:24):
DSLR.
You talk about the camera, theDSLR, versus, say, a Fult
Astronomical camera.
Okay, but what about the optics?
If you're planning on using aDSLR lens, stick with the DSLR.
So the next step.
(26:45):
So now move to a different partof your question.
If you wanted to move from DSLRto something else, what would
it be?
If it's for deep skyastrophotography, it would be a
cool one-shot color CMOS camera.
It's going to feel very, verymuch like your DSLR in use.
(27:06):
The differences is thetemperature of the chip will be
stable, okay, which permits youto easily calibrate your images.
And we were talking about thewhole notion of science and
being scientists.
The best data is calibrateddata.
(27:29):
The pictures that come in rawcontain photons that you don't
want in them from the darkcorner of the camera, from the
bias signal that got added andfrom the optical properties of
your system that might give youvignetting the presence of
(27:52):
things like dust particles onthe sensor or the filter.
So, having that stabletemperature allows you to
calibrate your frames and getrid of all that unwanted junk
that's impacting the quality ofyour picture Now what if I
didn't have the money to buy oneof the one-shot color CMOS
(28:15):
cameras?
Rob Webb (28:18):
Like, what is something that I could do with
still just my DSLR?
Like, can I use DSLR picturesor images in Pixinsight and all
that?
Ron Brecher (28:29):
Yeah, pixinsight will process any type of image
file.
So my CMOS cooled CMOS camerahas the same sensor in it as a
Nikon D850 camera.
There's no difference in thesensor.
The difference is in the backof the sensor.
(28:50):
I have a cooler, you don't.
That's the difference.
Rob Webb (28:56):
OK.
So then because?
So what you're saying is thatbecause the sensor stays cooled,
there's fewer artifacts in thepictures.
So then when I want to processthem because I don't process
anything right now if I do wantto process them, that's going to
make them easier to work with,is that?
Ron Brecher (29:16):
what you're saying.
It'll improve your signal tonoise ratio.
Ok, yes, but not only will theraw image be cleaner to start
with, but because of the stabletemperature of the sensor, it's
very easy to make calibrationframes, bias, dark and flat
(29:36):
frames.
That will further clean up thatimage.
So, whether you stack or youdon't stack, you'll end up with
a cleaner image.
You don't have to stack OK, okand pick.
(29:56):
So then the other aspect ofthis is astrophotography isn't
one great big ball of stuff thatyou have to know all at the
same time.
Right, I know people who willnever learn how to collimate or
operate a telescope, becausethey use a remote telescope and
(30:18):
have the data gathered.
They want to process the dataand make pictures.
There's other people.
I have a friend in Australiawho makes telescopes, likes to
gather the data but doesn't wantto process it.
He gives it to me to process.
Rob Webb (30:36):
Yeah, that might be where I'm kind of at.
Ron Brecher (30:40):
I'm trying to say there's a couple of completely
independent skill sets requiredfor astrophotography.
Right Acquisition is one thing.
Processing is another.
So you can learn how to processdata from any source, ok, and
get good at that, while you'restill learning how to acquire
(31:02):
your own good data.
Rob Webb (31:05):
Yeah, I think this it's such an interesting idea to
go into this.
It's one of those things thatI've been wanting to do.
I have a couple sets where Itook like 10 pictures of the
same thing with my telescope ona mountain and I tried and it
didn't work.
It sounds like I wish I couldhave just like a one-on-one.
(31:30):
Here are 10 of my pictures ofthe Pleiades Show me how to
stack them, show me how to dothe bias and the other things
and sort of do that step by step.
I think that's kind of the typeof thing that, as a real brand
(31:50):
newbie, like that's the kind ofthing I'm looking for, because
it can look like a huge hurdle.
Ron Brecher (31:57):
There's that article that was it's part of
the download package from theworkshop that you attended the
other night.
It's in Sky and Telescope from2017.
And it's called DemystifyingImage Calibration and it
actually tells you how toacquire the calibration frames.
(32:17):
Ok, Now if you're using a DSLR,you have a few challenges
because you don't have thetemperature regulation Right.
So if I'm imaging at minus,with my sensor at minus 10, I
shoot minus 10 darks.
But you can't really do that.
So what you kind of have to dois shoot some darks at the
(32:42):
beginning of your session, pausein the middle and shoot some
more, and then at the end shootsome more, okay, and throw those
all in a pot and on average,your frames will be okay, okay.
Rob Webb (33:01):
So let me ask you this what would be the one skill
Like for me who's just done DSLRsingle shot stuff, what would
be the one skill that would giveme the biggest bang for my buck
in the images that I'm making?
Like, what's the one skill thatyou think would really make
them pop better, Even if it'sjust doing the dark frames or
(33:24):
just learning how to stack orwhatever?
What do you think would be thebiggest bang for my buck in one
skill?
Ron Brecher (33:34):
I think, learning how to stop, because if you can
shoot one frame, you can shoot16.
And if you can combine those 16, you're going to get an
improvement in the image and thesignal to noise ratio.
No model what else you do withit.
An image composed of 16 subs isgoing to be better than one
(33:59):
composed of a single five minutesub.
So if you're already able toget a good quality single sub,
get good at combining 16 or 20subs.
Rob Webb (34:13):
Okay, all right, that gives me a good direction,
because I'm just looking and,like whoever was Emerson or
somebody, two paths diverged inthe wood.
I'm looking at 16 differentpaths right in front of me.
Ron Brecher (34:29):
Even if you don't want to calibrate your frames.
You just want to align themtogether and stack them.
You can do that in weightedbatch reprocessing.
You don't need calibrationframes.
So if you can shoot a singleframe, you can shoot 20.
Just load those 20 into thescript.
It'll scream at you and tellyou that there's no calibration
(34:52):
frames and you did somethingwrong.
Just click through it and it'llrun.
Dave Farina (34:57):
You know it's interesting.
I've kind of gone through thejourney for the past seven or
eight years and I've gotten allthe way to the point where I was
using monochrome filter wheels,the whole thing.
Sometimes it's just nice tostep back and shoot some
(35:20):
pictures with the DSLRmirrorless camera.
There's nothing wrong with kindof working backwards if you're
hitting a plateau or if you'refeeling like you're hitting a
wall.
It's kind of where I've whatI've done recently.
I have some kids now and I haveless time and my skill set is
(35:42):
rusty and I just took a fewsteps back and I said you know
what I really need to startfresh and have some successes,
because I was having a lot ofgremlins in my process and
having issues and I just took mymirrorless camera out and
hooked it up one night to thetelescope and just took some
(36:05):
images and I was like, wow, thisis kind of cathartic to be able
to have some success like that.
So you know, don't try to gotoo fast would be my suggestion.
You know.
Let it kind of naturally makeits way through.
You know your interest and youknow if you feel like you want
(36:27):
to try a new thing, only changeone thing at a time.
You know the scientific processand that way your your skill
set doesn't grow beyond youractual ability to do anything
with it, because you know somepeople try to buy their way
through this hobby and it'sreally not going to work.
(36:47):
The knowledge base is required.
Ron Brecher (36:52):
Yeah, and you know, the move from a DSLR to a one
shot color cooled CMOS camera.
You'll find it.
I think you'll find it reallyeasy and you'll find that it
actually simplifies your imagingand improves your result.
However, it's not free, right.
Rob Webb (37:16):
Right.
Ron Brecher (37:18):
So you asked about that.
You asked about that before,though, rob, and I wanted to say
there's a very robust usedmarket for cameras.
Dave Farina (37:27):
Okay, I would say it's probably also a good idea,
if you're already on a DSLR, toconsider trying to hook it up to
a laptop, because if you'regoing to be going to a one shot
color astronomy camera, most ofthem you need to hook up to a
laptop.
There are a few out there thatyou can use an intermediary
(37:49):
device, like a little RaspberryPi device, but most of the time
people are imaging using alaptop and that can be done also
with a DSLR.
There's a number of softwareout there that can handle that.
A lot of the software, in fact,can handle the DSLRs and
mirrorless cameras and it allowsyou to start to learn that
process too.
Ron Brecher (38:11):
Yeah, sgp, nina.
Of course Backyard EOS andBackyard Nikon.
Dave Farina (38:18):
Those are the ones I got started on.
Ron Brecher (38:20):
Yeah, yeah.
But you know, I think, ifyou're, I think I'm kind of
thinking what would I dodifferently if I was starting
over again?
I think I would have decidedsooner rather than later that
I'm crazy about this, and Iwould have just gone for what I
wanted right at the beginning.
Because, you mean in?
Rob Webb (38:42):
terms of spending money or buying.
Ron Brecher (38:44):
Yeah, you spend a lot of money buying and selling
stuff.
I agree with that.
If I'd known how passionate Iwas going to be about this, I
would have just bought all theright stuff at the beginning, as
soon as I could.
You know, I know you can't buyit all at once.
Rob Webb (39:02):
So if you were to start now, like, let's say,
somebody else is just going intothis now, knowing that you
would spend, knowing they'dspend a lot of money.
But where do you seeastrophotography going from here
?
Like, right now we've got CMOScameras.
I'm starting to see cell phonecameras being used more often.
Like, where do you see it goingin the next 10 years, so that
(39:27):
somebody who's wanting to getinto it can like ride that wave
now?
Ron Brecher (39:34):
Well, mounts.
So the mount is the heart ofany astrophotography rig.
It doesn't take the pictures,but it's the clock that
counteracts the rotation of theEarth.
Right, so it keeps everything.
Keeps your stars.
Ring Mounts are evolving quitea lot over the last few years.
(39:55):
We're seeing strain wave mountsthat work without
counterweights, no clutches, no,it doesn't matter as much.
On the software and camera, Idon't know how much the camera
hardware is going to evolve, butI think the sum of the firmware
is going to change.
(40:15):
Richard Wright Accidental Astrois his thing at all.
Richard Wright has writtenabout this in Sky and Telescope
and just to really quicklysummarize, there's going to be a
lot of things that happen inthe camera that right now we're
doing manually.
So, for example, you might takefive images in the camera and
(40:40):
have them calibrated in thecamera, registered and aligned,
and then saved as a single frame.
Dave Farina (40:46):
In fact, I had Richard on the last podcast that
we had about live stacking andastrophotography in the future
of it, and I believe that's whatyou're referencing.
So, yeah, guys, check that outif you haven't already listened
or watched the podcast withRichard Wright, because it's
extremely exciting.
What he believes is going to bethe next things in Astro.
Ron Brecher (41:09):
And to hear you say that Ron is exciting to have
that second opinion, just to beclear, though it's not really a
qualified opinion, it's anunderstanding that Richard is a
very, very insightfulastrophotographer and if he
thinks this is coming, it'scoming.
I've heard him talk about otherthings that were coming, that
(41:31):
came, so if Richard says it'scoming, I really believe it.
He's probably working on thesoftware to do it.
Rob Webb (41:40):
I think that would be amazing.
I've really enjoyed just thefact that the new phones they
take a bunch of frames and stackit in there already and you get
a decent picture.
I think it's amazing and I seeeverything just getting easier
and faster with that type oftechnology.
Maybe not as good, right,because when you have better
(42:04):
data you can make a betterpicture, but we're better.
Ron Brecher (42:08):
Yeah, but there's a lot to be said for fast and
easy.
When you're, say, a youngparent with limited time,
limited money, limited weather.
Sometimes fast is good enough,right, I'm lucky I have the
luxury of I now have the luxuryof an observatory.
(42:30):
I've got some good equipmentand.
OK skies, I'm just having a ballwith it, I just have fun with
it.
Ai is coming toastrophotography.
Yeah, it's not coming, it'shere.
Russ Krohman has three AI basedtools for Pixins.
I think some of them work withother stores as well.
(42:54):
Blur Exterminator, which is adeconvolution tool.
It makes images look sharper,although deconvolution is not
the same as sharpening.
We can have a conversationabout that sometime.
So he's got that deconvolutiontool.
He's got a star illuminationtool.
Star Exterminator Yep, that'sall the stars are going to do.
(43:14):
So, from an image processingpoint of view, it's really nice
to break your image up into Ithink of it in three sections
background, target, object andstars.
And if you can have those, ifyou can deal with each of them
as a separate challenge, you canend up with a really nice
(43:39):
picture.
So Star Exterminator helps withthat.
And then the last one is NoisixExterminator, which really has
to be seen to be believed.
It's by far the best noiseelimination tool that I've ever
seen in Pixinsite.
And not only that, but itactually gives you a little bit
(44:00):
of detail enhancement as well.
So AI is coming more and moreinto master photography and I
think that's kind of excitingand it's also kind of scary, but
you know, is it going to makeit more fun.
I like, for me it's all.
(44:21):
I really enjoy this so.
Dave Farina (44:25):
So the last thing I'll ask is you know I
personally, am you know, scienceteacher?
I come with the background ofyou know, trying to look at
these things from thatperspective.
I also have, you know, aninterest in the pretty picture
astrophotography stuff.
Do you have any interest in thescience?
(44:45):
Have you done anything with?
You know more of the datacollection side or trying to
capture some sort of an event?
Ron Brecher (44:56):
Not exactly, but I've been involved in a NASA
project to help remove cosmicray damage from images that they
take from the space station.
Oh cool.
So they have a project that wasworking out of the Rochester
Institute of Technology and Igot to hear Don Pettit.
(45:17):
He was one of the astronautsthat flew on the space station,
took a lot of photos and he gavea talk at NIA about a few years
ago.
Anyway, they use Nikon DSLRs onthe space station in the
Italian model called the cupolathat always faces Earth, and so
(45:39):
they've got a bunch of Nikoncameras.
They're taking pictures all thetime, but these sensors in the
camera build up damage fromcosmic ray hits and so they look
the pictures out of them havelike red, green and blue
spouting throughout them.
So, don Pettit, in his talk hesaid you know, if anybody has
(46:01):
any ideas about how we could fixthem, let me know.
And I thought about it a littlebit and came up with a way to
do it in its insight, and so wasinvited to be part of that.
That's awesome, that team.
Yeah, it was really cool.
I got my name on NASAletterhead.
Rob Webb (46:22):
Oh, fantastic For the meeting.
Ron Brecher (46:24):
Yeah, that's a win.
And you also asked about thescience.
So every time I post a picture,I write about the object.
I'm a scientist by day.
I'm very interested in thecosmos from, let's say, an
academic perspective.
I'm very interested when I'mdoing astrophotography.
(46:47):
For me, it's mostly aboutmaking pretty pictures, but when
I'm posting, I want to tell thestory of the object, and I want
to.
I also give all my processingdetails, so I want to tell the
story of how I made the picture.
Dave Farina (47:03):
Right, you capture the mind and the heart at the
same time with some of thesepictures.
It's amazing.
Ron Brecher (47:08):
That's what it does .
For me, it's like anintellectual pursuit that
exposes beauty that you couldnever see.
Right, it's a lot of good checkboxes for me.
Rob Webb (47:26):
Right, right, yeah, I think that's why we all enjoy it
too, and I think one of thecool things about
astrophotography, especiallysome of the deep sky stuff, is
you're picking up on things withthose cameras that you can't
see without a camera.
I think that's pretty amazing.
I want to share a little memewith you and I want to see what
(47:48):
you think of this.
Tell us what people are missingabout this one.
Now for the audience who'slistening.
What we're going to look at is apicture, and just think of the
moon.
Think of the full moon on abeautiful night.
It's a little bit cloudy.
You can see the moon, you cansee the craters, you can see the
(48:11):
maria, you can sort of see theclouds around, and it's just
phenomenal.
And then you go to take apicture of it with your cell
phone and it's just junk, right.
I mean, even with my DSLR, Isee something like that top
(48:32):
picture with the moon that looksjust gorgeous and beautiful.
And I take out my DSLR and itjust doesn't match up.
What do you think for normalpeople out there?
Like what do they forget?
Like what do they not know?
Ron Brecher (48:49):
based on that, the moon is really tiny, yeah, and
far away.
If you hold your arm up atarm's length with your baby
finger sticking out, yourfingernail of your baby finger
will cover the moon.
That's how small it is on thesky, yeah.
(49:09):
So now do that with anythingelse in your surroundings and
take a picture with your cellphone.
It's gonna be small.
Dave Farina (49:19):
Yep For sure.
Ron Brecher (49:21):
And if it's not, it's gonna be blurry because the
autofocus mechanisms don't workproperly.
Dave Farina (49:27):
And the other weird thing is how it looks different
at the horizon.
But it's actually no different.
It's just an optical illusion.
You can do the exact same thingwith your finger.
You can hold it out and it'sthe same exact size as it is
when it's up in the sky, andlots of people you know, and
myself included, kind of thatoptical illusion catches you.
(49:49):
But once you do that littletest it's obvious that it's just
that.
Rob Webb (49:55):
I've always been impressed with the way our eyes
can really, really our brainsinterpret the image to have such
high dynamic range where we cansee the Mario, but then we can
also see the stars behind themoon.
But when you get a camera out,you just even a DSLR like you
can't quite get that same highdynamic range.
(50:16):
And there are ways to do that,I know, but it's pretty amazing.
Our brains are amazinglyterrible pattern-seeking
machines.
Ron Brecher (50:24):
Oh yeah, crazy.
Rob Webb (50:26):
How can people find you on the internet, and is
there anything that else thatyou would like to plug tonight?
Ron Brecher (50:33):
My website is astrodocca.
You can find me atmastersofpixinsightcom, and you
can also find me at my emailaddress or on Facebook.
My email address isarbreacheratrodgerscom.
That's R-B-R-E-Z-H-E-R atRogers arrow-g-e-r-scom, and you
(50:58):
can message me on Facebook.
If you want lessons, just reachout, go to the website.
Every picture I post tons ofinformation, all my articles
that I'm writing up there.
There's nothing for purchase onthat website.
It's all.
Everything up there is free toaccess.
Enjoy it.
Dave Farina (51:21):
Ron, I'm gonna put you on the spot here.
Rob, as he said, is justgetting started.
Your recommendation to do somestacking of images was, I think,
spot on and I know that yourexperience here in Pixinsight is
(51:42):
second to none.
I'd love to have you back atsome point to discuss how that
process works, if you'reinterested.
Would you be interested to comeback on sometime with us and
maybe take Rob through thatprocess?
Ron Brecher (51:57):
I'd love to come back on the show.
I like doing things like this,and maybe what we can do is take
a one-shot color master and putit through an abbreviated
workflow that gives a reallynice result in nine or 10 steps,
but to be fair, it's still nineor 10 tools that you have to
(52:19):
learn how to use.
I have friends who are greatcarpenters.
You could give me the besthammer in the world.
I could never build you a housebecause I don't know how to use
it.
Right, but you could give them apretty mediocre hammer and
they'll still build you a reallygood hammer, right?
Yeah, so you have to put in thetime to learn how to use the
(52:41):
tools.
Dave Farina (52:43):
Well, we really appreciate you coming on.
I'm looking forward to thatnext time.
Guys, this is only possible byhaving the support of our
audience and if you could helpus out, we are trying to grow
our Patreon.
I know that there's people whoare listening right now.
(53:05):
If you haven't seen Ron'simages, check out his website
once again at stroaddocca andRob, thank you again for your
amazing and very difficulttrivia.
Rob Webb (53:27):
You're very welcome, happy to help.
All right, everybody.
Dave Farina (53:31):
Thank you so much, and clear skies, as Ron would
say.
Ron Brecher (53:36):
See you later gang.
Rob Webb (53:38):
See ya.
Ron Brecher (53:51):
See ya tomorrow.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.