October 28, 2024 • 34 mins
Join us on the latest episode of the Count Me In Podcast as host Adam Larson chats with Sheila Rondeau, the CEO of MOGXP and an introverted powerhouse who’s mastered the art of networking and personal branding.
Discover Sheila’s top strategies for making networking less intimidating, including her unique plan of connecting with five quality contacts per event. She also offers invaluable tips on maintaining authenticity in personal branding, balancing social media efforts, and the crucial distinction between reputation and brand.
Learn how to build genuine connections, engage thoughtfully on LinkedIn, and offer real value in your professional interactions. Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, Sheila's insights on making networking work for you, understanding thought leadership, and respecting others' time are game-changers.
Tune in and get ready to transform the way you approach networking and personal branding, one meaningful connection at a time.
Sponsor:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Larson (00:20):
Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson,
and today, I had the pleasure ofspeaking with Sheila Rondeau,
CEO of MOG XP and an expert inthe art of networking. Despite
her introverted nature, Sheilahas developed unique strategies
for building meaningfulconnections and emphasizes the
importance of personal brandingand authenticity. In this
episode, Sheila will share herinsights on effective follow
(00:43):
ups, evaluating networkinggroups, and maintaining a
balanced social media presence.Whether you're an introvert or
an extrovert, Sheila's valuabletips can help you enhance your
networking efforts and personalbrand.
Let's dive in. Sheila, thank youso much for coming on the
(01:03):
podcast. I'm really excited tochat with you about having your
own brand and building your ownpersonal brand. And when you and
I are first chatting, you kindof mentioned that business
professionals need to have theirown brand. And I figured, let's
let's let's dig it.
Let's start by digging into thata little bit.
Sheila Rondeau (01:18):
Okay. Well, first of all, Adam, thanks for
having me. And as far as havingyour own brand as a business
professional, whether you are asmall business owner, if you are
an executive, you still have toown your own brand. It's how you
put yourself out there whereveryou are, whatever you do. It it
(01:39):
impacts your personal life andyour business life.
If you are, you know, middlemanagement at a at a corporation
and you wanna get promoted, ityou manage your brand. It is
about making sure that you areauthentic to who you are, that
you position yourself as athought leader, and that you are
(02:03):
true to to what you are, who youare, what you do, and that you
communicate it well. So my mythoughts on that is think about
all the things that happen withBud Light, and there was a lack
of authenticity there. And soyou you can think about it as as
(02:24):
a big brand like that, but alsofor individuals. And then you
think about how a company likeBen and Jerry's goes to market.
Mhmm. And Ben and Jerry's areunapologetically who they are.
You know who they are, what theystand for any minute of any day,
and you know where they're gonnabe all the time. Where what side
(02:47):
of the the aisle are they gonnabe on? What side of an issue,
and what voice are they going tospeak in?
And that's what you have to doas an individual. So you don't
always have to flat you know,wave the flag and say, okay.
These are my personal beliefsand so on because there are a
lot of times that that's justinappropriate.
Adam Larson (03:06):
Mhmm.
Sheila Rondeau (03:06):
But you have to be authentic. You have to speak
in a voice of reason, and youhave to have a clear, concise
message.
Adam Larson (03:13):
Alright. So you said a lot there, and there's
definitely a lot we can unpack.But to start off, like, it
sounds like taking care of yourpersonal brand, because a lot of
times people are like, well, I'mnot a marketer. How can I take
care of my personal brand? Wecan we can get to that.
But it sounds like your brand isreally what we used to call your
(03:35):
reputation. Right? It's reallyyour reputation that you're
trying to support and put outthere. Why the change from the
word reputation to brand? Isthat the same, or are there
differences there?
Sheila Rondeau (03:45):
Because I think reputation is at a at a smaller
scale. And your reputation is iseverything, but it is the first
of the building blocks. But thenyou look at if you are a thought
leader, if you are a risk taker,are you a leader? All those
(04:06):
things. And if you're owningyour own brand, you have to look
at how you ladder into thosethings.
So if you are a thought leader,then you want to be published.
You wanna make sure that you'recreating content and that you're
sharing things. But when you'resharing things, you're sharing
value, not just sharing contentto hear yourself speak. And when
(04:30):
you share value, you enhanceother people's lives. So you
make them think, you give themideas that they didn't have, you
give them different perspective,or you teach them.
Adam Larson (04:41):
So what's the difference then between somebody
who is sharing for value andsomebody who is sharing just to
hear their own hear their ownvoice. Like, if we if we, as
consumers, are looking out thereto see who is actually actually
expert, can we tell just bylistening to them talk? Or what
are what are some points theyshould people should look for?
Sheila Rondeau (05:01):
So I look for those who are selling all the
time.
Adam Larson (05:04):
Okay.
Sheila Rondeau (05:05):
The folks who sound like they are always doing
a sales pitch.
Adam Larson (05:09):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (05:10):
And it comes off like that. It's like, look at
me, look at me, look at me. Andwhen you are thought a thought
leader and you are giving value,you are creating value by
encouraging people to do things,inspiring them and also giving
them tips that they can use toenhance their lives.
Adam Larson (05:32):
So you keep mentioning that term thought
leader, and I'm sure everybody'slistening to this podcast has
heard that terminology. It'sprobably overused in the
business world. But let's talk alittle bit more. Like, what is a
thought leader and how wouldsomebody start down that road to
becoming 1?
Sheila Rondeau (05:49):
So thought leaders are exactly what it
says. It is about creatingcreating thoughts and sharing
those thoughts in a in ameaningful way where you can
talk about how to enhancepeople's lives, how to enhance
their careers. We have so manycoaches and consultants. But do
(06:12):
you enhance people's lives? Doyou move the needle?
Do you give them actionableitems? And that's what a thought
leader is. Like, don't give mesomething that is just you
pontificating. Give me somethingthat is actionable that I can do
today that makes my businessbetter, that makes me able to do
(06:35):
something more for my clients,or that enhances my life, that
gives me better balance or makesme a better parent, makes me a
better, a better daughter, abetter friend, whatever that is.
Adam Larson (06:49):
I love that being what the way you describe it is
more than just more than justabout raising up your career,
making more money. Because a lotof times that's what people are
like, hey. What can I do to getnoticed, to become noticed as an
expert so I can get this xamount of money going to this
conference and that conference?It's it's actually bringing
value to to the human race inwhatever field that you're doing
(07:12):
in. And that's that'sessentially what we should all
be striving to do is to bringvalue and to help others as
opposed to focusing just on us.
Because I think we get lost youcan get lost in that, especially
if you're trying to raise up.You need to have some sort of
ego, but you got to keep youcan't you can't always be
focused on
Sheila Rondeau (07:30):
that. Right. And what also happens is we have a
demographic of folks who don'twant to go the corporate route.
Mhmm. And at some point, theywant to work for themselves.
They want to be entrepreneurs.And we have more more young
people who want to beentrepreneurs than ever before.
And when you look at that, theyeither have to do it through
education, pedigree. And when Isay pedigree, I mean, you know,
(07:53):
the logos that they've workedfor, or they have to prove
themselves as thought leaders.So by giving value and by having
insights that that provethemselves as as worthy of doing
business for you or consulting.
I mean, I find it laughable thatwe have so many consultants,
(08:15):
especially business consultantsthat have never run businesses
before. It's it's crazy. And whywould you hire them? Now you
have to get you have to getlegs. You have to to get your
creds, and you have to do itagain through through some of
those different scenarios,working for companies, learning
(08:35):
through education and throughmentorship, and also by putting
yourself out there, by thinking,by talking, and by putting
yourself out there in a way thatalso you are having two way
communication so that you arelearning through what you're
Adam Larson (08:53):
giving. Yeah, I really like that. So do you have
any examples of like maybeindividuals or companies that
you admire that would be a goodexample for people to say, hey,
where can I go to look to seesomebody has a good personal
brand? Just so maybe thatbecause a lot of times, you can
we can talk about the theoriesand how to do it all we want,
but it let's say you see it inaction, it's it's sometimes hard
to to make that connection.
Sheila Rondeau (09:15):
So I could I could name off a 1,000, and it's
so hard to pick one out of outof thin air. But I have a dear
friend by the name of JudyHoberman, and Judy Hoberman's
brand is selling in a skirt.
Adam Larson (09:29):
And
Sheila Rondeau (09:30):
what I love about Judy is Judy is so
authentic to who she is. I spentNew Year's Day with her 1 year
after spending New Year's Evewith her and her husband and a
group of friends. And thefollowing morning, Judy gets up
and makes breakfast, and she isstill in a skirt. I'm like, oh
(09:52):
my gosh. And it's like, no oneis ever gonna see Judy in
anything but a skirt.
And it's it's true to her brand.And it's not just in the
clothing that she wears. It ishow she empowers women, how she
looks for men to champion women,how she talks in in the way that
women talk and teach men andwomen how to better communicate
(10:18):
to one another. And that isreally what her brand stands
for. She does podcasts.
She does a a TV show. She does aton of articles, and she does a
ton of coaching. But when youlook at the folks who call
themselves coaches and you lookat somebody like Judy, I'm like,
Judy owns it. Judy Judy owns herbrand. And then you can look at,
(10:42):
you know, across the board,whether you like him or not.
Elon Musk, he owns his brand.You know where he's gonna come.
You look at Richard Branson.What where whatever they say
never shocks you because it istrue to who they are. I think
(11:04):
they've gotten to the pointwhere where they don't know how
to be anything but authenticbecause they have no filters.
And good or bad, you know,sometimes it is it is very
thought provoking, and sometimesit's it may be something you're
really behind or it is totallyagainst who you are. But you
never doubt where they're gonnacome out on an issue.
Adam Larson (11:26):
That's that's a really good point because, you
know, whether you agree withsomebody or not, you know,
knowing where that person standsis a is sometimes an important
thing. And what what would yousay to somebody who is, you
know, listening to thisconversation? And, you know, you
mentioned that a few times,being being your authentic self.
And they look at the and andafter some self reflection, they
(11:47):
look at themselves and say, hey.My authentic self doesn't always
jive with this setting or thatsetting.
And or or, like, if I'm in acorporate setting, my what I
would call my authentic selfdoesn't always fit in a
profession quote, unquote,professional setting. You know,
are we supposed to be adjustingourselves, you know, to fit in
those settings? Or or or is itjust saying, well, this is me,
(12:09):
and if you take it or leave it,like, what what is the best
approach there to something likethat? Because lots of people,
you know, in certain in certaincultures, it's like they call it
code switching because they haveto say, oh, I need to I need to
look this way in front of thesepeople and look this way for
those people. You know, that'smore, with some with people of
color.
And so it's one of those thingswhere like, what what advice
would you give to somebody who'swho's struggling with that?
Sheila Rondeau (12:30):
You don't always have to put your politics, your
personal beliefs and so on. Youdon't have to lead with them.
Adam Larson (12:37):
Mhmm.
Sheila Rondeau (12:37):
You don't have to to lay it out there for
everyone. What I'm saying is soyou don't talk about religion.
You don't talk about politics.All those traditional things
that that your mother told youweren't. You know, you don't
talk about money in in inbusiness settings and in social
settings.
At the same time. You can if youare strong and you have are
(13:01):
opinionated, you can berespectful in how you voice your
opinion. You don't necessarilyhave to agree with everyone.
Sometimes you're just like, youknow, I I can accept I can
accept your point of view, but Idon't necessarily agree with it.
(13:24):
But but understand we can agreeto disagree.
Adam Larson (13:26):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (13:27):
And there can be happy mediums where you try to
find middle ground. And it ismore important when you are
working with coworkers, whetherit be in a corporate setting or
in a small business typesetting, that you find
commonalities with people andyou don't necessarily have to
always lead with yourdifferences.
Adam Larson (13:49):
Mhmm.
Sheila Rondeau (13:50):
Does that make sense?
Adam Larson (13:51):
That does make sense. And I also I also think
too, there's this, because ofhow corporate cultures were
originally created, it's, youknow, very staunch, you know,
wear your suit and tie, and it'svery uncomfortable. And I feel
like as culture has has changed,we don't have to be so uptight
in those settings. However, youknow, it's trying to find that
(14:14):
balance because I feel like, youknow, you're not able to be
emotional inside of an officesetting. But yet, all of us have
many emotions and you have to,oh, I have to be tempered.
I have to tamper those thingsdown. But if you're passionate
about something, it's okay to,like, it's okay to show that
emotion, but you said in, like,a respectful way in trying to
balance that. And I think that'sa a struggle that people have,
especially people who might benaturally more loud and just
(14:37):
excitable because that's justtheir nature and who they are.
But then they
Sheila Rondeau (14:40):
feel like they can't be that self when in a
corporate setting. So somebodygave me a quote not long ago
that I really liked. Firm,friendly, and fair. You know, it
think about that. Think aboutwhether or not it is kind, what
you're saying.
(15:00):
It you can you can give somebodycriticism or disagree with them
and still be kind. And I'm notsaying you have to be warm and
fuzzy, but you don't have to bemean, and you don't have to be
aggressive. Is it is it true? Isit, kind? Is it is it relevant
(15:27):
to the conversation?
And if it's not, then itprobably doesn't need to be at
work.
Adam Larson (15:32):
I think that's a good measure there. I appreciate
your thoughts on that. So, youknow, circling back to our
personal brand. Mhmm. I thinkwhen you think about branding,
you think about online Internetbecause that's how we visually
see everything.
Obviously, when we're in stores,we see those things. So when you
have a personal brand,obviously, social things like
social media have a huge part ofthat. Can we talk a little about
(15:53):
use of social media to, like,kinda effectively show that, you
know, you talked about books,you know, you can promote those
things. But, obviously, we don'twanna be always selling things.
So how do you balance thosethat?
Sheila Rondeau (16:03):
So I I call it the rule the, the social media
rule of 3. And, well, it's 3things, and it's a third of
each. It is 1 third personal, 1third business, 1 third
inspirational, aspirational, orcommunity. Nobody wants to
(16:25):
follow somebody who does nothingbut post pictures of their
grandbabies or their cats. Okay.
We may love cats. We may lovetheir grandbaby, but we don't
want to see that and only that.We don't want to see somebody
who is doing nothing butpromoting their business. And we
(16:46):
also don't want to see somebodywho is always showing what
they're doing in the community,as you know, what all my charity
events are to make me put me upon the floor. It's about showing
you as a person.
People want to know what'shappening in your life. And
that's that's my rule is isevenly sharing those three
(17:10):
areas. And so you can thebusiness
Adam Larson (17:12):
side of it and the inspirational
Sheila Rondeau (17:12):
and aspirational, when you start
looking at what yourinspirational and aspirational
when you start looking at whatyou're posting. We talk about,
being a thought leader is tips,encouragement. It can be
motivational Monday. It can befun Friday. It can be tips
Tuesday, whatever it might be.
(17:33):
Or and it doesn't have to betitled anything, but to do it
with a a regularity that you'resharing insights or thoughts or
fun things that make peoplesmile or make them think. It can
also be a blog that you put onLinkedIn that you create a mini
blog for and you post it on yourFacebook because it might be a
(17:57):
little more appropriate to cutit cut the version down and also
to to call out. I think one ofthe the best ways to do it is to
call out other people. It is ifyou're at a social event, you
know, you thank your hosts forputting on a great event and and
welcoming you there or thankingthe organization that is is
(18:19):
creating this wonderful charitythat is doing so much. It's
about how you do it, and that'show you own your brand.
It is sometimes giving thespotlight to someone else, and
that actually makes you look alot more authentic than you
saying, guess where I wasyesterday. You know?
Adam Larson (18:40):
Yeah. I like that I like that that approach to kind
of help help stimulate eitherthought or some sort of
engagement with people who areviewing it as opposed to just,
oh, that's a nice picture ofyour cat, like you were
mentioning, or your grandkids orwhatever. And how do you
balance, you know, because I I'msure somebody listening to this
who is in an organization that,their team their team doesn't
(19:03):
have enough people and they feeloverworked. They're like, wait.
So now I gotta create, like, amy own personal social media
strategy?
You know, how do you balancethat? Because things are pretty
hard right now. And, like, doessomebody like, how do you, like,
how do you find like, Iobviously, you can make the time
to do that. But it it seemsoverwhelming to have another
thing to manage.
Sheila Rondeau (19:23):
So what I look at is, can I schedule a bunch of
things out there? Lots of freetools to schedule it. You can
literally spend a couple ofhours once a quarter to build
out the business pieces and someof the other things that that
you want to do and then thepersonal and the inspirational
(19:45):
and aspirational. So the quotesand things like that, you can
schedule ahead of time. But whenit comes to the community
events, you want to do that whenyou're there.
So it's literally you take amoment at an event and you take
a picture with a group of peopleand you tag it in and say, you
know, these are the people I gotto I got. I was fortunate enough
(20:06):
to spend the evening with. Or ifyou are personally, you know,
doing something where you wantto share a picture of your child
or your family doing somethingfun, then you do it in the spur
of the moment. So also, youknow, when you start looking at
things like LinkedIn, you haveto have some consistency on it
(20:28):
to actually work. And what Isuggest to people is to spend if
you want to build your LinkedIn,spend 5 minutes in the morning
and 5 in in at night before yougo to bed.
First thing in the morning, Ilook at my social media to see
what's happened in the world. Iwanna check the news real quick.
I wanna see what's in my feed,what people are talking about,
and, you know, wish people happybirthday, congratulations,
(20:51):
whatever those things are. And Ispend a couple of minutes, but I
switch over to LinkedIn and thenI look at somebody who pops up
in my feed that I know and Ilook at who some of their
connections are and I look forthe people who I have the most
mutual connections with and Ireach out to them. And when I do
that, if I do a message at all,you know, when you have 34 100
(21:15):
mutual connections, I'm like,okay.
Do I really need to write anote? And and some people won't
accept an invitation without anote. And I'm like, you know,
okay. And and it's a numbersgame at that point. You wanna
meet people.
You wanna have people in youryour network that are
interesting. They don'tnecessarily have to be a client.
You want you want a good mix ofpeople. And when you're doing
(21:37):
that, for me, I find somebody inmy feed who's interesting. I
look at who their connectionsare, and I look for people who I
have a lot of mutual connectionswith, and I invite them to
connect.
A lot of times I don't do amessage. If I do do a message,
it is very short. If it is morethan 3 lines, you are spamming
them and stop when you aresending out messages to to
(22:00):
connect with them or to evenengage with them. If you are
sending more than 3 lines likeI'm I'm disconnecting with you,
I am I'm done with you becauseyou can use LinkedIn and any
social media for raising yourbrand. But social media is meant
to be social, which means it isnot me getting 20 messages from
(22:22):
you before I ever get one backfrom you.
Like, if I have something whereI am trying to reach out to a
particular demographic on socialmedia, I might go days days
between and sometimes weeks andeven months in between reaching
out to people who I'd like tohave a conversation with. But
(22:42):
what I find is I'd rather findout who's in my network, have an
authentic 15 minute conversationto learn about them. And I find
that I get a lot more out of theconversation. And then I learn
who's in my network, not justtarget somebody because I want
to do business with someone.Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Adam Larson (23:00):
It really does. I feel like there's always a
delicate balance betweenbusiness and just getting to
know somebody. You know, and ifyou if you if you post a lot or
if you do things on LinkedIn, ifyou get a lot of messages from
people saying, oh, I just wantedto connect with you. And then,
like, a day later, you get thiswhole, sales pretty much sales
email to your LinkedIn. And I Idon't know if that's the best
(23:22):
approach, but it it doesn't seembased on what you're saying, it
seems like you want to buildauthentic connections and
through that you can possibly dowork together.
Sheila Rondeau (23:31):
Right. And and for me, a lot of the people I
connect with aren't people Icould ever do business with.
Adam Larson (23:37):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (23:37):
But having a great network also means that I
can offer my network to helpsomeone else, someone who's
looking for a job, someone whois looking for a connection that
can help them. And so I offer tomake introductions for people,
and that is my gift. Who can Iintroduce you to? At the same
time, I'm not gonna introduceyou to someone if you're gonna
(24:00):
spend the next 3 months sendingthem a message every day trying
to get a meeting with them orspamming them.
Adam Larson (24:06):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (24:07):
It is about being able to reach out and
having ongoing dialogue. So,yeah, you might send a couple of
messages to someone, but makethem authentic messages. Make
them true messages that are, youknow, how are you? What do you,
you know, what are you seeing inyour industry? Ask questions.
Don't send 5 paragraphs. Again,if you send me more than 3
(24:31):
sentences, the first couple ofmessages, unless we are going
back and forth and you've askedquestions and I'm providing you
info, you're spamming me. Youdon't know me well enough to
spam me. I didn't I didn't askto be on your list. Instead,
invite me to learn about you andand give me the opportunity to
teach you about me.
Adam Larson (24:51):
And it's taking beyond just a sales pitch and a
call. And I know that that'smust be difficult for people who
are doing sales and they, youknow, they have quotas to match.
And so trying to find thattrying to find the balance
between the 2 is not an easytask for anyone, really. And and
Sheila Rondeau (25:09):
you have to remember that you can't use just
one tactic. The idea in sales isthat you want between 8 12 touch
points. And so some of that canbe through social media. Some of
it can be through them seeingyou on social media, not
necessarily you reaching out tothem. So if you have good
content and it gets shared alot, people are likely to see
(25:31):
it.
You also want to do differenttypes of social media. You can
use email, go to events, beactive in the community. That's
how you meet people, and invitethem to have a 15 minute call.
And if it's a 15 minute call,respect it. When the 15 minutes
are over, you ask the questionif they would like to continue
(25:54):
on because you wanna berespectful of their time, if
they would like to find anothertime to reengage.
Adam Larson (26:03):
If
Sheila Rondeau (26:03):
not, you thank them for their time.
Adam Larson (26:05):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (26:06):
Nothing worse than somebody saying, can I have
15 minutes of your time and thenwanting to keep you an hour?
Adam Larson (26:12):
Yeah, very much so. Because people's time is very
precious and we have very littleof it. And you want to use it
wisely and you want to make sureyou use other people's time
wisely.
Sheila Rondeau (26:21):
Absolutely. So, again, one of the great things
you can do is, again, providevalue so that people want to
talk to you, Make the offer andlet people talk about
themselves. If you immediatelystart talking about yourself and
everything is me me me me me,then people walk away feeling,
(26:44):
again, like it's a sales pitchversus did we have an actual
conversation? Do you havequestions for this person about
who they are, what they do, whatare their goals, who in my
network can bring value to you?Is there someone I can make an
introduction to you?
Who is your your perfect client?Is there somebody who can
(27:06):
benefit from your services? Andif I'm gonna make an ask, my ask
is always, is there someone youbelieve would benefit from my
services? Not who do you thinkwould would would wanna do
business with me? Who wouldbenefit from knowing me?
Adam Larson (27:25):
So we can't talk about networking and talking
with people without mentioningthe terms like introvert and
extrovert. Because anytimenetworking comes up, there are
certain people who naturallyjust can chat with people and
chat it up and have small talkand do that. And there's other
people that it's a little moreof a hurdle to do that in a live
setting, but they feel morecomfortable in a different
(27:45):
setting. You know, what are sometips for people who find
themselves on the introvertside, extrovert side, in the
middle? You know, like, I alwayssay I'm a I'm an I'm an
introvert who pretends to be anextrovert really well.
Sheila Rondeau (27:57):
And I think you and I talked about that when we
initially spoke, Adam. I am ahorrible introvert. Now I can
take the stage and speak infront of 5,000 people. The
cocktail party or networkingevent is enough to make me
cringe. And I look for all thereasons not to go to the point
(28:18):
that one of the techniques Iused is I created my own
networking event and called it agirlfriend's network because
it's not it's not enticing,intimidating to meet new
girlfriends and for mygirlfriends to introduce me to
other people.
But I also have strategies whenI go to network. First of all,
to get me to go because I am theworst at canceling. Like, I will
(28:42):
pay to go to an event and not gobecause I just cringe at the
thought of going to a networkingevent. So I always invite
someone to meet me there. Now,don't meet me beforehand because
we'll end up going to havedinner or go have a cocktail.
Instead, meet me at the eventand then we have an agreement
(29:04):
that we start up together. We gofind people to talk to and then
we look for each other, go backto each other and then separate
again. You can't stay with theperson you came with because
that doesn't help. But what Ifind is that if I, in my own
mind, understand that I don'thave to meet 200 people at a
(29:27):
networking event, if it's a 2hour networking event, I look to
connect with 5 people. If in thecourse of 2 hours, I can meet 5
people, I can have 10 minuteconversations.
So it's not a collecting ofbusiness cards. Personally, if I
walk out with 5 business cards,it was a better value to me than
(29:51):
walking out with 100. Because ifI walk out with 100, it means
people are exchanging businesscards and I'm going to end up on
their email spamless.
Adam Larson (29:59):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (30:00):
And none of us need more spam. Instead, if I
connect with 5 people and I'vehad enough of a conversation
with them that I spent 10minutes with them, I found them
to be interesting. I don't needto find people that I can do
business with. I need to findpeople who are interesting
because those 5 people I'm goingto want to follow-up with. It is
only polite to follow-up withthe people that you met and you
(30:24):
thank them for their time.
Then out of those 5, you have todecide if any of them you find
interesting enough that youwould want to have coffee with,
you would wanna have a quickZoom call with, or you wanna
know more about their business.If you can do that with 3 of
them, then out of those 3, youhope that you have 2 of them
(30:45):
that will be people that youwill keep in your network and
keep top of mind who will keepyou top of mind. And the idea is
in the course of a year andlet's say 50 weeks because there
are some weeks you just don'tmake it. If you go to one event
a week, then you end up with a100 champions in the course of a
(31:07):
year.
Adam Larson (31:07):
Wow.
Sheila Rondeau (31:08):
You have an out of that, you have a 150 who are
advocates. And you have 250people that you have met who
know your business well enoughto at least let people know what
you do and make an introduction.That's a whole lot better than a
desk full of business cards forpeople you've never really met.
(31:30):
And that's how I go into it. Theother rule I always keep in mind
is if I don't have time tofollow-up, I don't have time to
go to the event.
You are wasting your time if yougo to an event and you don't
have the time to follow-upbecause why were you there?
Adam Larson (31:49):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Wow.
Sheila Rondeau (31:51):
And so my tip.
Adam Larson (31:52):
Yeah. No. I I think those are great tips because I
and I love that that thoughtpattern. If you don't have time
to follow-up, why would you go?You know, because if you're
gonna make those authenticconnections, you wanna build
that for beyond just that thatmeeting.
And if you're too busy to almostnot get there, will you be too
busy to follow-up? Probably. Andit's it's understanding your own
(32:12):
limits and boundaries. And Ithink that's a very healthy way
of looking at it.
Sheila Rondeau (32:16):
The other two things I keep in mind when I
look at organizations to belongto, which, of course, where most
of your networking opportunitiescome from.
Adam Larson (32:25):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (32:25):
Is does the group is is part of that group
people I could actually dobusiness with or gatekeepers to
those who I could do businesswith? Do they do business with
the same type of people I dobusiness with? So there are
opportunities, not necessarilythat I would do business with
that person. And the other is,do they inspire me? Do they
(32:50):
teach me?
Do they motivate me? So it needsto be 1 or the other. Do they do
they kinda give me that kick inthe butt, or do they bring me
clients? Mhmm. And you have tolook at how you spend your time.
And at a certain point, youcan't afford to be involved in
all of these events and spendyour time where it doesn't help
(33:13):
you grow your business or teachyou to be a better business
person.
Adam Larson (33:17):
Oh, well, Sheila, I've really enjoyed this
conversation. I I appreciate allthe knowledge and the wisdom you
share with our audience, and Ihope that they've enjoyed it as
much as I have. And I just thankyou again so much for coming on
the podcast.
Sheila Rondeau (33:28):
Adam, thank you so much.
Announcer (33:31):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.ima net.org.
Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson,
and today, I had the pleasure ofspeaking with Sheila Rondeau,
CEO of MOG XP and an expert inthe art of networking. Despite
her introverted nature, Sheilahas developed unique strategies
for building meaningfulconnections and emphasizes the
importance of personal brandingand authenticity. In this
episode, Sheila will share herinsights on effective follow
(00:43):
ups, evaluating networkinggroups, and maintaining a
balanced social media presence.Whether you're an introvert or
an extrovert, Sheila's valuabletips can help you enhance your
networking efforts and personalbrand.
Let's dive in. Sheila, thank youso much for coming on the
(01:03):
podcast. I'm really excited tochat with you about having your
own brand and building your ownpersonal brand. And when you and
I are first chatting, you kindof mentioned that business
professionals need to have theirown brand. And I figured, let's
let's let's dig it.
Let's start by digging into thata little bit.
Sheila Rondeau (01:18):
Okay. Well, first of all, Adam, thanks for
having me. And as far as havingyour own brand as a business
professional, whether you are asmall business owner, if you are
an executive, you still have toown your own brand. It's how you
put yourself out there whereveryou are, whatever you do. It it
(01:39):
impacts your personal life andyour business life.
If you are, you know, middlemanagement at a at a corporation
and you wanna get promoted, ityou manage your brand. It is
about making sure that you areauthentic to who you are, that
you position yourself as athought leader, and that you are
(02:03):
true to to what you are, who youare, what you do, and that you
communicate it well. So my mythoughts on that is think about
all the things that happen withBud Light, and there was a lack
of authenticity there. And soyou you can think about it as as
(02:24):
a big brand like that, but alsofor individuals. And then you
think about how a company likeBen and Jerry's goes to market.
Mhmm. And Ben and Jerry's areunapologetically who they are.
You know who they are, what theystand for any minute of any day,
and you know where they're gonnabe all the time. Where what side
(02:47):
of the the aisle are they gonnabe on? What side of an issue,
and what voice are they going tospeak in?
And that's what you have to doas an individual. So you don't
always have to flat you know,wave the flag and say, okay.
These are my personal beliefsand so on because there are a
lot of times that that's justinappropriate.
Adam Larson (03:06):
Mhmm.
Sheila Rondeau (03:06):
But you have to be authentic. You have to speak
in a voice of reason, and youhave to have a clear, concise
message.
Adam Larson (03:13):
Alright. So you said a lot there, and there's
definitely a lot we can unpack.But to start off, like, it
sounds like taking care of yourpersonal brand, because a lot of
times people are like, well, I'mnot a marketer. How can I take
care of my personal brand? Wecan we can get to that.
But it sounds like your brand isreally what we used to call your
(03:35):
reputation. Right? It's reallyyour reputation that you're
trying to support and put outthere. Why the change from the
word reputation to brand? Isthat the same, or are there
differences there?
Sheila Rondeau (03:45):
Because I think reputation is at a at a smaller
scale. And your reputation is iseverything, but it is the first
of the building blocks. But thenyou look at if you are a thought
leader, if you are a risk taker,are you a leader? All those
(04:06):
things. And if you're owningyour own brand, you have to look
at how you ladder into thosethings.
So if you are a thought leader,then you want to be published.
You wanna make sure that you'recreating content and that you're
sharing things. But when you'resharing things, you're sharing
value, not just sharing contentto hear yourself speak. And when
(04:30):
you share value, you enhanceother people's lives. So you
make them think, you give themideas that they didn't have, you
give them different perspective,or you teach them.
Adam Larson (04:41):
So what's the difference then between somebody
who is sharing for value andsomebody who is sharing just to
hear their own hear their ownvoice. Like, if we if we, as
consumers, are looking out thereto see who is actually actually
expert, can we tell just bylistening to them talk? Or what
are what are some points theyshould people should look for?
Sheila Rondeau (05:01):
So I look for those who are selling all the
time.
Adam Larson (05:04):
Okay.
Sheila Rondeau (05:05):
The folks who sound like they are always doing
a sales pitch.
Adam Larson (05:09):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (05:10):
And it comes off like that. It's like, look at
me, look at me, look at me. Andwhen you are thought a thought
leader and you are giving value,you are creating value by
encouraging people to do things,inspiring them and also giving
them tips that they can use toenhance their lives.
Adam Larson (05:32):
So you keep mentioning that term thought
leader, and I'm sure everybody'slistening to this podcast has
heard that terminology. It'sprobably overused in the
business world. But let's talk alittle bit more. Like, what is a
thought leader and how wouldsomebody start down that road to
becoming 1?
Sheila Rondeau (05:49):
So thought leaders are exactly what it
says. It is about creatingcreating thoughts and sharing
those thoughts in a in ameaningful way where you can
talk about how to enhancepeople's lives, how to enhance
their careers. We have so manycoaches and consultants. But do
(06:12):
you enhance people's lives? Doyou move the needle?
Do you give them actionableitems? And that's what a thought
leader is. Like, don't give mesomething that is just you
pontificating. Give me somethingthat is actionable that I can do
today that makes my businessbetter, that makes me able to do
(06:35):
something more for my clients,or that enhances my life, that
gives me better balance or makesme a better parent, makes me a
better, a better daughter, abetter friend, whatever that is.
Adam Larson (06:49):
I love that being what the way you describe it is
more than just more than justabout raising up your career,
making more money. Because a lotof times that's what people are
like, hey. What can I do to getnoticed, to become noticed as an
expert so I can get this xamount of money going to this
conference and that conference?It's it's actually bringing
value to to the human race inwhatever field that you're doing
(07:12):
in. And that's that'sessentially what we should all
be striving to do is to bringvalue and to help others as
opposed to focusing just on us.
Because I think we get lost youcan get lost in that, especially
if you're trying to raise up.You need to have some sort of
ego, but you got to keep youcan't you can't always be
focused on
Sheila Rondeau (07:30):
that. Right. And what also happens is we have a
demographic of folks who don'twant to go the corporate route.
Mhmm. And at some point, theywant to work for themselves.
They want to be entrepreneurs.And we have more more young
people who want to beentrepreneurs than ever before.
And when you look at that, theyeither have to do it through
education, pedigree. And when Isay pedigree, I mean, you know,
(07:53):
the logos that they've workedfor, or they have to prove
themselves as thought leaders.So by giving value and by having
insights that that provethemselves as as worthy of doing
business for you or consulting.
I mean, I find it laughable thatwe have so many consultants,
(08:15):
especially business consultantsthat have never run businesses
before. It's it's crazy. And whywould you hire them? Now you
have to get you have to getlegs. You have to to get your
creds, and you have to do itagain through through some of
those different scenarios,working for companies, learning
(08:35):
through education and throughmentorship, and also by putting
yourself out there, by thinking,by talking, and by putting
yourself out there in a way thatalso you are having two way
communication so that you arelearning through what you're
Adam Larson (08:53):
giving. Yeah, I really like that. So do you have
any examples of like maybeindividuals or companies that
you admire that would be a goodexample for people to say, hey,
where can I go to look to seesomebody has a good personal
brand? Just so maybe thatbecause a lot of times, you can
we can talk about the theoriesand how to do it all we want,
but it let's say you see it inaction, it's it's sometimes hard
to to make that connection.
Sheila Rondeau (09:15):
So I could I could name off a 1,000, and it's
so hard to pick one out of outof thin air. But I have a dear
friend by the name of JudyHoberman, and Judy Hoberman's
brand is selling in a skirt.
Adam Larson (09:29):
And
Sheila Rondeau (09:30):
what I love about Judy is Judy is so
authentic to who she is. I spentNew Year's Day with her 1 year
after spending New Year's Evewith her and her husband and a
group of friends. And thefollowing morning, Judy gets up
and makes breakfast, and she isstill in a skirt. I'm like, oh
(09:52):
my gosh. And it's like, no oneis ever gonna see Judy in
anything but a skirt.
And it's it's true to her brand.And it's not just in the
clothing that she wears. It ishow she empowers women, how she
looks for men to champion women,how she talks in in the way that
women talk and teach men andwomen how to better communicate
(10:18):
to one another. And that isreally what her brand stands
for. She does podcasts.
She does a a TV show. She does aton of articles, and she does a
ton of coaching. But when youlook at the folks who call
themselves coaches and you lookat somebody like Judy, I'm like,
Judy owns it. Judy Judy owns herbrand. And then you can look at,
(10:42):
you know, across the board,whether you like him or not.
Elon Musk, he owns his brand.You know where he's gonna come.
You look at Richard Branson.What where whatever they say
never shocks you because it istrue to who they are. I think
(11:04):
they've gotten to the pointwhere where they don't know how
to be anything but authenticbecause they have no filters.
And good or bad, you know,sometimes it is it is very
thought provoking, and sometimesit's it may be something you're
really behind or it is totallyagainst who you are. But you
never doubt where they're gonnacome out on an issue.
Adam Larson (11:26):
That's that's a really good point because, you
know, whether you agree withsomebody or not, you know,
knowing where that person standsis a is sometimes an important
thing. And what what would yousay to somebody who is, you
know, listening to thisconversation? And, you know, you
mentioned that a few times,being being your authentic self.
And they look at the and andafter some self reflection, they
(11:47):
look at themselves and say, hey.My authentic self doesn't always
jive with this setting or thatsetting.
And or or, like, if I'm in acorporate setting, my what I
would call my authentic selfdoesn't always fit in a
profession quote, unquote,professional setting. You know,
are we supposed to be adjustingourselves, you know, to fit in
those settings? Or or or is itjust saying, well, this is me,
(12:09):
and if you take it or leave it,like, what what is the best
approach there to something likethat? Because lots of people,
you know, in certain in certaincultures, it's like they call it
code switching because they haveto say, oh, I need to I need to
look this way in front of thesepeople and look this way for
those people. You know, that'smore, with some with people of
color.
And so it's one of those thingswhere like, what what advice
would you give to somebody who'swho's struggling with that?
Sheila Rondeau (12:30):
You don't always have to put your politics, your
personal beliefs and so on. Youdon't have to lead with them.
Adam Larson (12:37):
Mhmm.
Sheila Rondeau (12:37):
You don't have to to lay it out there for
everyone. What I'm saying is soyou don't talk about religion.
You don't talk about politics.All those traditional things
that that your mother told youweren't. You know, you don't
talk about money in in inbusiness settings and in social
settings.
At the same time. You can if youare strong and you have are
(13:01):
opinionated, you can berespectful in how you voice your
opinion. You don't necessarilyhave to agree with everyone.
Sometimes you're just like, youknow, I I can accept I can
accept your point of view, but Idon't necessarily agree with it.
(13:24):
But but understand we can agreeto disagree.
Adam Larson (13:26):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (13:27):
And there can be happy mediums where you try to
find middle ground. And it ismore important when you are
working with coworkers, whetherit be in a corporate setting or
in a small business typesetting, that you find
commonalities with people andyou don't necessarily have to
always lead with yourdifferences.
Adam Larson (13:49):
Mhmm.
Sheila Rondeau (13:50):
Does that make sense?
Adam Larson (13:51):
That does make sense. And I also I also think
too, there's this, because ofhow corporate cultures were
originally created, it's, youknow, very staunch, you know,
wear your suit and tie, and it'svery uncomfortable. And I feel
like as culture has has changed,we don't have to be so uptight
in those settings. However, youknow, it's trying to find that
(14:14):
balance because I feel like, youknow, you're not able to be
emotional inside of an officesetting. But yet, all of us have
many emotions and you have to,oh, I have to be tempered.
I have to tamper those thingsdown. But if you're passionate
about something, it's okay to,like, it's okay to show that
emotion, but you said in, like,a respectful way in trying to
balance that. And I think that'sa a struggle that people have,
especially people who might benaturally more loud and just
(14:37):
excitable because that's justtheir nature and who they are.
But then they
Sheila Rondeau (14:40):
feel like they can't be that self when in a
corporate setting. So somebodygave me a quote not long ago
that I really liked. Firm,friendly, and fair. You know, it
think about that. Think aboutwhether or not it is kind, what
you're saying.
(15:00):
It you can you can give somebodycriticism or disagree with them
and still be kind. And I'm notsaying you have to be warm and
fuzzy, but you don't have to bemean, and you don't have to be
aggressive. Is it is it true? Isit, kind? Is it is it relevant
(15:27):
to the conversation?
And if it's not, then itprobably doesn't need to be at
work.
Adam Larson (15:32):
I think that's a good measure there. I appreciate
your thoughts on that. So, youknow, circling back to our
personal brand. Mhmm. I thinkwhen you think about branding,
you think about online Internetbecause that's how we visually
see everything.
Obviously, when we're in stores,we see those things. So when you
have a personal brand,obviously, social things like
social media have a huge part ofthat. Can we talk a little about
(15:53):
use of social media to, like,kinda effectively show that, you
know, you talked about books,you know, you can promote those
things. But, obviously, we don'twanna be always selling things.
So how do you balance thosethat?
Sheila Rondeau (16:03):
So I I call it the rule the, the social media
rule of 3. And, well, it's 3things, and it's a third of
each. It is 1 third personal, 1third business, 1 third
inspirational, aspirational, orcommunity. Nobody wants to
(16:25):
follow somebody who does nothingbut post pictures of their
grandbabies or their cats. Okay.
We may love cats. We may lovetheir grandbaby, but we don't
want to see that and only that.We don't want to see somebody
who is doing nothing butpromoting their business. And we
(16:46):
also don't want to see somebodywho is always showing what
they're doing in the community,as you know, what all my charity
events are to make me put me upon the floor. It's about showing
you as a person.
People want to know what'shappening in your life. And
that's that's my rule is isevenly sharing those three
(17:10):
areas. And so you can thebusiness
Adam Larson (17:12):
side of it and the inspirational
Sheila Rondeau (17:12):
and aspirational, when you start
looking at what yourinspirational and aspirational
when you start looking at whatyou're posting. We talk about,
being a thought leader is tips,encouragement. It can be
motivational Monday. It can befun Friday. It can be tips
Tuesday, whatever it might be.
(17:33):
Or and it doesn't have to betitled anything, but to do it
with a a regularity that you'resharing insights or thoughts or
fun things that make peoplesmile or make them think. It can
also be a blog that you put onLinkedIn that you create a mini
blog for and you post it on yourFacebook because it might be a
(17:57):
little more appropriate to cutit cut the version down and also
to to call out. I think one ofthe the best ways to do it is to
call out other people. It is ifyou're at a social event, you
know, you thank your hosts forputting on a great event and and
welcoming you there or thankingthe organization that is is
(18:19):
creating this wonderful charitythat is doing so much. It's
about how you do it, and that'show you own your brand.
It is sometimes giving thespotlight to someone else, and
that actually makes you look alot more authentic than you
saying, guess where I wasyesterday. You know?
Adam Larson (18:40):
Yeah. I like that I like that that approach to kind
of help help stimulate eitherthought or some sort of
engagement with people who areviewing it as opposed to just,
oh, that's a nice picture ofyour cat, like you were
mentioning, or your grandkids orwhatever. And how do you
balance, you know, because I I'msure somebody listening to this
who is in an organization that,their team their team doesn't
(19:03):
have enough people and they feeloverworked. They're like, wait.
So now I gotta create, like, amy own personal social media
strategy?
You know, how do you balancethat? Because things are pretty
hard right now. And, like, doessomebody like, how do you, like,
how do you find like, Iobviously, you can make the time
to do that. But it it seemsoverwhelming to have another
thing to manage.
Sheila Rondeau (19:23):
So what I look at is, can I schedule a bunch of
things out there? Lots of freetools to schedule it. You can
literally spend a couple ofhours once a quarter to build
out the business pieces and someof the other things that that
you want to do and then thepersonal and the inspirational
(19:45):
and aspirational. So the quotesand things like that, you can
schedule ahead of time. But whenit comes to the community
events, you want to do that whenyou're there.
So it's literally you take amoment at an event and you take
a picture with a group of peopleand you tag it in and say, you
know, these are the people I gotto I got. I was fortunate enough
(20:06):
to spend the evening with. Or ifyou are personally, you know,
doing something where you wantto share a picture of your child
or your family doing somethingfun, then you do it in the spur
of the moment. So also, youknow, when you start looking at
things like LinkedIn, you haveto have some consistency on it
(20:28):
to actually work. And what Isuggest to people is to spend if
you want to build your LinkedIn,spend 5 minutes in the morning
and 5 in in at night before yougo to bed.
First thing in the morning, Ilook at my social media to see
what's happened in the world. Iwanna check the news real quick.
I wanna see what's in my feed,what people are talking about,
and, you know, wish people happybirthday, congratulations,
(20:51):
whatever those things are. And Ispend a couple of minutes, but I
switch over to LinkedIn and thenI look at somebody who pops up
in my feed that I know and Ilook at who some of their
connections are and I look forthe people who I have the most
mutual connections with and Ireach out to them. And when I do
that, if I do a message at all,you know, when you have 34 100
(21:15):
mutual connections, I'm like,okay.
Do I really need to write anote? And and some people won't
accept an invitation without anote. And I'm like, you know,
okay. And and it's a numbersgame at that point. You wanna
meet people.
You wanna have people in youryour network that are
interesting. They don'tnecessarily have to be a client.
You want you want a good mix ofpeople. And when you're doing
(21:37):
that, for me, I find somebody inmy feed who's interesting. I
look at who their connectionsare, and I look for people who I
have a lot of mutual connectionswith, and I invite them to
connect.
A lot of times I don't do amessage. If I do do a message,
it is very short. If it is morethan 3 lines, you are spamming
them and stop when you aresending out messages to to
(22:00):
connect with them or to evenengage with them. If you are
sending more than 3 lines likeI'm I'm disconnecting with you,
I am I'm done with you becauseyou can use LinkedIn and any
social media for raising yourbrand. But social media is meant
to be social, which means it isnot me getting 20 messages from
(22:22):
you before I ever get one backfrom you.
Like, if I have something whereI am trying to reach out to a
particular demographic on socialmedia, I might go days days
between and sometimes weeks andeven months in between reaching
out to people who I'd like tohave a conversation with. But
(22:42):
what I find is I'd rather findout who's in my network, have an
authentic 15 minute conversationto learn about them. And I find
that I get a lot more out of theconversation. And then I learn
who's in my network, not justtarget somebody because I want
to do business with someone.Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Adam Larson (23:00):
It really does. I feel like there's always a
delicate balance betweenbusiness and just getting to
know somebody. You know, and ifyou if you if you post a lot or
if you do things on LinkedIn, ifyou get a lot of messages from
people saying, oh, I just wantedto connect with you. And then,
like, a day later, you get thiswhole, sales pretty much sales
email to your LinkedIn. And I Idon't know if that's the best
(23:22):
approach, but it it doesn't seembased on what you're saying, it
seems like you want to buildauthentic connections and
through that you can possibly dowork together.
Sheila Rondeau (23:31):
Right. And and for me, a lot of the people I
connect with aren't people Icould ever do business with.
Adam Larson (23:37):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (23:37):
But having a great network also means that I
can offer my network to helpsomeone else, someone who's
looking for a job, someone whois looking for a connection that
can help them. And so I offer tomake introductions for people,
and that is my gift. Who can Iintroduce you to? At the same
time, I'm not gonna introduceyou to someone if you're gonna
(24:00):
spend the next 3 months sendingthem a message every day trying
to get a meeting with them orspamming them.
Adam Larson (24:06):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (24:07):
It is about being able to reach out and
having ongoing dialogue. So,yeah, you might send a couple of
messages to someone, but makethem authentic messages. Make
them true messages that are, youknow, how are you? What do you,
you know, what are you seeing inyour industry? Ask questions.
Don't send 5 paragraphs. Again,if you send me more than 3
(24:31):
sentences, the first couple ofmessages, unless we are going
back and forth and you've askedquestions and I'm providing you
info, you're spamming me. Youdon't know me well enough to
spam me. I didn't I didn't askto be on your list. Instead,
invite me to learn about you andand give me the opportunity to
teach you about me.
Adam Larson (24:51):
And it's taking beyond just a sales pitch and a
call. And I know that that'smust be difficult for people who
are doing sales and they, youknow, they have quotas to match.
And so trying to find thattrying to find the balance
between the 2 is not an easytask for anyone, really. And and
Sheila Rondeau (25:09):
you have to remember that you can't use just
one tactic. The idea in sales isthat you want between 8 12 touch
points. And so some of that canbe through social media. Some of
it can be through them seeingyou on social media, not
necessarily you reaching out tothem. So if you have good
content and it gets shared alot, people are likely to see
(25:31):
it.
You also want to do differenttypes of social media. You can
use email, go to events, beactive in the community. That's
how you meet people, and invitethem to have a 15 minute call.
And if it's a 15 minute call,respect it. When the 15 minutes
are over, you ask the questionif they would like to continue
(25:54):
on because you wanna berespectful of their time, if
they would like to find anothertime to reengage.
Adam Larson (26:03):
If
Sheila Rondeau (26:03):
not, you thank them for their time.
Adam Larson (26:05):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (26:06):
Nothing worse than somebody saying, can I have
15 minutes of your time and thenwanting to keep you an hour?
Adam Larson (26:12):
Yeah, very much so. Because people's time is very
precious and we have very littleof it. And you want to use it
wisely and you want to make sureyou use other people's time
wisely.
Sheila Rondeau (26:21):
Absolutely. So, again, one of the great things
you can do is, again, providevalue so that people want to
talk to you, Make the offer andlet people talk about
themselves. If you immediatelystart talking about yourself and
everything is me me me me me,then people walk away feeling,
(26:44):
again, like it's a sales pitchversus did we have an actual
conversation? Do you havequestions for this person about
who they are, what they do, whatare their goals, who in my
network can bring value to you?Is there someone I can make an
introduction to you?
Who is your your perfect client?Is there somebody who can
(27:06):
benefit from your services? Andif I'm gonna make an ask, my ask
is always, is there someone youbelieve would benefit from my
services? Not who do you thinkwould would would wanna do
business with me? Who wouldbenefit from knowing me?
Adam Larson (27:25):
So we can't talk about networking and talking
with people without mentioningthe terms like introvert and
extrovert. Because anytimenetworking comes up, there are
certain people who naturallyjust can chat with people and
chat it up and have small talkand do that. And there's other
people that it's a little moreof a hurdle to do that in a live
setting, but they feel morecomfortable in a different
(27:45):
setting. You know, what are sometips for people who find
themselves on the introvertside, extrovert side, in the
middle? You know, like, I alwayssay I'm a I'm an I'm an
introvert who pretends to be anextrovert really well.
Sheila Rondeau (27:57):
And I think you and I talked about that when we
initially spoke, Adam. I am ahorrible introvert. Now I can
take the stage and speak infront of 5,000 people. The
cocktail party or networkingevent is enough to make me
cringe. And I look for all thereasons not to go to the point
(28:18):
that one of the techniques Iused is I created my own
networking event and called it agirlfriend's network because
it's not it's not enticing,intimidating to meet new
girlfriends and for mygirlfriends to introduce me to
other people.
But I also have strategies whenI go to network. First of all,
to get me to go because I am theworst at canceling. Like, I will
(28:42):
pay to go to an event and not gobecause I just cringe at the
thought of going to a networkingevent. So I always invite
someone to meet me there. Now,don't meet me beforehand because
we'll end up going to havedinner or go have a cocktail.
Instead, meet me at the eventand then we have an agreement
(29:04):
that we start up together. We gofind people to talk to and then
we look for each other, go backto each other and then separate
again. You can't stay with theperson you came with because
that doesn't help. But what Ifind is that if I, in my own
mind, understand that I don'thave to meet 200 people at a
(29:27):
networking event, if it's a 2hour networking event, I look to
connect with 5 people. If in thecourse of 2 hours, I can meet 5
people, I can have 10 minuteconversations.
So it's not a collecting ofbusiness cards. Personally, if I
walk out with 5 business cards,it was a better value to me than
(29:51):
walking out with 100. Because ifI walk out with 100, it means
people are exchanging businesscards and I'm going to end up on
their email spamless.
Adam Larson (29:59):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (30:00):
And none of us need more spam. Instead, if I
connect with 5 people and I'vehad enough of a conversation
with them that I spent 10minutes with them, I found them
to be interesting. I don't needto find people that I can do
business with. I need to findpeople who are interesting
because those 5 people I'm goingto want to follow-up with. It is
only polite to follow-up withthe people that you met and you
(30:24):
thank them for their time.
Then out of those 5, you have todecide if any of them you find
interesting enough that youwould want to have coffee with,
you would wanna have a quickZoom call with, or you wanna
know more about their business.If you can do that with 3 of
them, then out of those 3, youhope that you have 2 of them
(30:45):
that will be people that youwill keep in your network and
keep top of mind who will keepyou top of mind. And the idea is
in the course of a year andlet's say 50 weeks because there
are some weeks you just don'tmake it. If you go to one event
a week, then you end up with a100 champions in the course of a
(31:07):
year.
Adam Larson (31:07):
Wow.
Sheila Rondeau (31:08):
You have an out of that, you have a 150 who are
advocates. And you have 250people that you have met who
know your business well enoughto at least let people know what
you do and make an introduction.That's a whole lot better than a
desk full of business cards forpeople you've never really met.
(31:30):
And that's how I go into it. Theother rule I always keep in mind
is if I don't have time tofollow-up, I don't have time to
go to the event.
You are wasting your time if yougo to an event and you don't
have the time to follow-upbecause why were you there?
Adam Larson (31:49):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Wow.
Sheila Rondeau (31:51):
And so my tip.
Adam Larson (31:52):
Yeah. No. I I think those are great tips because I
and I love that that thoughtpattern. If you don't have time
to follow-up, why would you go?You know, because if you're
gonna make those authenticconnections, you wanna build
that for beyond just that thatmeeting.
And if you're too busy to almostnot get there, will you be too
busy to follow-up? Probably. Andit's it's understanding your own
(32:12):
limits and boundaries. And Ithink that's a very healthy way
of looking at it.
Sheila Rondeau (32:16):
The other two things I keep in mind when I
look at organizations to belongto, which, of course, where most
of your networking opportunitiescome from.
Adam Larson (32:25):
Yeah.
Sheila Rondeau (32:25):
Is does the group is is part of that group
people I could actually dobusiness with or gatekeepers to
those who I could do businesswith? Do they do business with
the same type of people I dobusiness with? So there are
opportunities, not necessarilythat I would do business with
that person. And the other is,do they inspire me? Do they
(32:50):
teach me?
Do they motivate me? So it needsto be 1 or the other. Do they do
they kinda give me that kick inthe butt, or do they bring me
clients? Mhmm. And you have tolook at how you spend your time.
And at a certain point, youcan't afford to be involved in
all of these events and spendyour time where it doesn't help
(33:13):
you grow your business or teachyou to be a better business
person.
Adam Larson (33:17):
Oh, well, Sheila, I've really enjoyed this
conversation. I I appreciate allthe knowledge and the wisdom you
share with our audience, and Ihope that they've enjoyed it as
much as I have. And I just thankyou again so much for coming on
the podcast.
Sheila Rondeau (33:28):
Adam, thank you so much.
Announcer (33:31):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.ima net.org.
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