November 11, 2024 • 32 mins
In this riveting episode of Count Me In, host Adam Larson sits down with Renata Serban, founder of Highly Elevated CPA and a powerhouse in the cannabis accounting industry. Renata's journey from Kazakhstan to the US, her academic pivot from chemical engineering to accounting, and her role as a strategic advisor in the cannabis sector promise to keep you hooked. Together, they chat about everything from the potential rescheduling of cannabis legislation to the vital medical benefits of cannabis, especially for cancer patients. You’ll also hear about the uphill battles faced in cannabis accounting, the importance of voting for transformative change, and the historical propaganda that still colors perceptions today. Whether you’re curious about the practical challenges in the weed industry or the optimistic future of cannabis reform, Renata's insights provide a compelling look into the regulatory landscape. Tune in for a candid conversation that's both enlightening and inspiring!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Larson (00:20):
Welcome back to Count Me In. On today's episode,
we sit down with Renata Serban,founder of Highly Elevated CPA.
We'll delve into key issues likethe bipartisan push for cannabis
rescheduling in the US and thecritical role of accountants in
navigating the complexregulations. Renata shares her
insights on the medical benefitsof cannabis, especially for
cancer patients, and the ongoingbattle against outdated
(00:42):
stereotypes. Plus, we'll discussthe potential future changes in
banking and legislation based onthe US elections.
Join us for an enlighteningconversation on the evolving
world of cannabis. And, I'm justso excited to have you
on the Count Me In podcast. Andtoday, we're gonna
be talking about accounting inhighly regulated industries,
(01:04):
specifically today, the cannabisindustry. And I figured before
we get started in that, I wasthought you could share a little
bit about your journey to howyou got to this point so far.
Renata Serban (01:14):
Well, Adam, well, first of all, thank you so much
for inviting me for for thispodcast. It's an honor to be
here. Never miss an opportunity,you know, for any podcast to
kind of voice my opinion, and, Ithink it's a great initiative. I
really appreciate that. So mybackground in my career journey
is very unorthodox.
Right? I wasn't born here. Icame here 2007. I'm originally
(01:36):
from Kazakhstan, which is acountry in Central Asia. And my
family is also very diversebackground.
Right? My dad was always intosports, and my mom, she works
for the city agency. So my dadwas always pushing me into
sports and be best at sports,and my mom was always pushing
me, you know, to be best atschool. That's why I have a
(01:58):
brown belt in judo and summa cumlaude in in all my education.
And back home, I got a degree inchemical engineering simply
because the academy of my homecountry is heavily based also on
oil and gas, so chemicalengineering was very, you know,
an intuitive choice.
When I come here to the US in2007 to really kinda learn
(02:20):
English and and get someeducation, because American
education when especially whenit comes to business is top of
the line, I chose the career of,you know, the career of
accountant because I just knewthat in order to continue in
chemical engineering, it wouldbe it would be just so much
harder for me that there was alanguage barrier, and most of
(02:41):
the good schools really in inchemical engineering are
somewhere in Texas. So being inNew York, the logical choice was
really to choose career inaccounting. It was also very,
you know, practical profession.I knew I could always find a
job, and it was just, like, soeasy for me. You know?
Like, math, debits, and credits,it was just so easy for me to
understand. But, you know, onceyou start really pursuing the
(03:05):
career, when you are animmigrant, right, it's a little
bit different battle you have toface. Right? You you really have
to be, like, 2 steps ahead ofeverybody else. I knew I need to
get all the way in my education.
I knew I need to get certifiedmanagement accountant, certified
public accountant, master'sdegree in accounting, get a
combination of private andpublic accounting experience,
(03:27):
you know, to kinda set myselfapart. That was that was always
my goal. And it looks like sofar, you know, I'm I'm the
founder of my own practice,highly elevated CPA, providing
accounting and consultingservices to cannabis operators
in New York and New Jersey. Andthat's really was my path coming
all the way to to this point.Like, very long journey, very,
(03:51):
like, you know, hard.
Adam Larson (03:54):
Oh, yeah. I'm sure that there is a lot of ups and
downs through that wholejourney, but it's it's great to
hear how you got to where youwere in running a successful
business right now is a reallyawesome thing in an industry
that is kind of just burgeoningin the US because, you know, it
was it's obviously if anybodyfollows the headlines in the US,
it's it's it's still illegalfederally, but at a state level,
(04:16):
state by state, they're kind ofthey're legalizing it. So
there's a lot of room for grayareas. So, you know, what what
drew you to the cannabisindustry, and and what about it
keeps you going in it? Becauseit it sounds like it's a
fascinating, thing to getstarted in.
Renata Serban (04:30):
It is. And a lot of people really don't know
that, you know, before the, youknow, the prohibition back in
the thirties, cannabis wastotally legal. And it's really
and then it was kinda like areversal where, you know,
prohibition was over, and thencannabis all of a sudden, you
know, got criminalized, andthat's how we get there. Like, I
(04:51):
think it was a really bigmistake. I think there was a lot
of politics involved at thattime.
How I got involved into thatvery easy. Cannabis for me is
the medication. It's amedication that, sort of there's
no side effects. It really helpsme with my insomnia. It really
helps me with with my migraine.
(05:12):
It really helps me with painmanagement. You know, as you get
older, like, it hurtseverywhere. And so that's on a
personal basis. And then ithappened that, when I was part
of the Sachin Cooperman team, Iwas originally recruited into
their business advisory servicesagain because of my diverse
experience and combination ofprivate and public knowledge, of
(05:36):
course, accounting. Thank thankthank you to certified
management accountingcertification.
I immediately got pulled intocannabis advisory services
group. And you know how it goesin the cannabis space, like, 1
year goes for 7. So, like, ifyou work in this industry for a
year, like, you're alreadyconsidered a veteran because
it's just such a fast pacedenvironment, such a fast paced
(05:58):
industry, and especially what Ilove about this industry, the
the diverse background of peoplethat are involved. I work a lot
with with doctors. I work a lotwith cancer patients, you know,
survivors.
You know, cannabis helped them alot going through chemo. A lot
of my clients also disabledveterans. Cannabis also helped
them, go through through theirpain and disability. And it's
(06:23):
really I think that there'sjust, like, so many stereotypes
in this industry, and just dueto lack of knowledge what
exactly this plant is and how itaffects our body and, you know,
that common perception about thestoners and stuff. But if you
think about it, you know, ifyou're drinking and if you're,
like, overusing it, like, nobodytalks about that, but for some
(06:45):
reason so I think it's it's alsoa lot about stereotypes, and
working in a highly regulatedindustry presents a lot of
challenges, of course, butthat's what makes it a very
specialized niche.
Mhmm. You really have to knowthe regulations of the states
where you're operating. We allknow at the federal level is
illegal, but it's really heavilydriven by states and the
(07:08):
regulations of the states is andas an accountant as a very
qualified accountant, you reallyhave to know the regulations in
order to properly advise yourclients. You know, ever since, I
started to be involved in thisindustry since 2021, like, ever
since, like, as I said, 3 years,like, times 7. I'm gonna
(07:28):
celebrate 25 year anniversarynext year.
Adam Larson (07:31):
Well, it sounds like you have to there's a lot
you have to wade through as anaccountant. So when when you're
in this type of industry andthere's not a lot of guidance,
like federal guidance, there'snot a lot of state guidance,
there's maybe there might be alittle bit at the state level,
but there's not a lot ofguidance. What skills and
framework should accounting andlike, accounting teams kind of
rely on to to make sure thatyou're doing things properly?
Because in a lot of places, it'scash only, and it's not like all
(07:53):
these great new newfangled,systems can't count cash for
you.
Renata Serban (07:59):
Yes. So that is true. There's really, like,
really not that much guidance. Imean, the entire tax framework
for the tax preparation of thecannabis operators is really 77
words of the 2 a d section ofIRS code and the key tax court
cases. And that's pretty muchit.
So what skills you need isreally, like, research the
(08:21):
research. You have to you haveto know all those key court tax
cases and to sign a kind ofmaking a conclusion based on
the, you know, judge and judge'sruling. You have to do the
research and kinda take veryconservative position to make
sure that the client isprotected. And the cash, yes,
it's a very cash intensiveindustry and, you know, like,
(08:43):
because it's federal illegal,there are not many banks that
are willing to serve cannabisoperators. But there are still
some solutions.
You know? Cannabis operators,you know, they they always
finding a way. They're veryadaptive. But there are some
banks that still bank little bylittle, there's more banks that
(09:03):
are coming on board, and I thinkalso especially in light of
current talks of rescheduling.Mhmm.
I think, you know, people aretalking more about more about it
than, you know, what both of thepresidential candidates sort of
seem to be in support of thecannabis rescheduling, so to
say. Yeah. It's it's it's reallya lot of research, a lot of
(09:27):
reading. We also, as a chair ofthe cannabis committee of the
New York State Society of CPAs,it's like it's a lot of also
sharing of experience. Right?
It's it's like, how do youhandle this? Like, how do you
approach? Why why do youapproach it this way? Just like
really speaking with otherpractitioners specializing in
this as well. That pretty muchit.
(09:47):
The it's not like there is onebook you can read and know how
to do it. No. It's not.
Adam Larson (09:53):
Yeah. It sounds like networking with other
people who are in the industryis a great way to learn. Are
Yeah. Yeah. Are you find thatthe within this industry, that
there will or do you think thatwithin this industry that there
will be times where you guyswill find better ways to do
things?
And, eventually, when the restof the world catches up, you'll
be like, hey, guys. We've beendoing it this better way for so
(10:14):
long, and you might you might beable to improve upon processes
at a larger level because youguys are having to be get so
creative because there is noguidance.
Renata Serban (10:23):
Well, I think once it's, once it's rescheduled
or descheduled and let meclarify that. So currently,
cannabis is on schedule 1 ofControl Substances Act. Right?
Control substance schedule 1means that cannabis is on that
schedule, heroin and cocaine.And, like, those are substances
(10:44):
that have no medical kind ofintent, which we all know is
incorrect.
Cannabis extensively use asmedication. When it will be
rescheduled to schedule 3, whichthere are also a lot of
medications that it wouldrequire medical prescription 280
wouldn't apply. So that's whywhen we talk about rescheduling,
(11:09):
it's literally moving,reclassifying cannabis from
schedule 1 and moving it toschedule 3. Desccheduling, on
other hand, means that cannabiswill be completely decre
decriminalized. It's not gonnabe on any of the schedules, and,
you know, it will be treated assimilar to tobacco and alcohol
(11:30):
industry.
The interstate commerce will beallowed. There might be some
excise taxes on cannabisproducts sold, but it will be
completely differentenvironment. And I think there
will be a lot of opportunities.
Adam Larson (11:41):
Yeah. It sounds like there would be a lot of
opportunities. And, plus, if youdeschedule it, you would allow
for a lot more tax revenue andrevenue for the for the country
and for the states. Right? So itwould seem to make sense in some
ways, maybe.
Renata Serban (11:56):
In either way, where either it's reschedule or
descheduled, I think there is alot of, thought. Mhmm. There's
not enough research done aboutcannabis because cannabis plant
has a lot of potential, and alot of people just they just
don't know about it. There's alot of really, like, medical
potential that a a lot ofpeople, they they just don't
(12:17):
know about it. So I'm thinkingonce once it's rescheduled,
really, the accounting bodieswill will come together and
kinda maybe provide some kind ofa guidance, or maybe will be
just treated like, you know,cultivation, for example.
Right? Who anybody who's growingprobably will be approaching in
a similar way as anyagriculture. Mhmm. The same in
the manufacturing. And anybodywho's manufacturing, you know,
(12:39):
cannabis products probably willbe also similar to accounting
for manufacturers.
And the same for the retailers,it's gonna be similar to the
ecommerce. And, Canada is rightthere around the corner. I'm
pretty sure that some of thesome of the best practices will
be also adapted. Cannabis islegalized in a lot of European
(13:02):
countries as well. Germany isone of them.
And, actually, I wish I I I knewGerman because there are
actually some books to cannabisaccounting and related to
cannabis that are in German. AndI'm like, oof, I I wish I knew
how to speak that language so Icould read more on the
Adam Larson (13:20):
Yeah. Maybe maybe we can, get a group effort and
try to get it translated sothat, you know, the cannabis
folks in the US can kinda learnfrom the
Renata Serban (13:28):
That's a great idea, actually. I haven't
thought about it.
Adam Larson (13:31):
Yeah. So when you're an accountant within this
realm, you know, so you werejust talking about how, like,
when it when they finally makedecision to deregulate or
schedule it differently, it'llprobably just fall into the same
accounting practices withinthose industries. But it sounds
like you as an accountant, youkinda have to be that
consultant, that businesspartner with the organization
because, you know, people arestarting new businesses just
(13:54):
like any other business. Youneed to have somebody who has
sound financial sense to kindahelp guide the organization.
Renata Serban (14:01):
That is true. And not only sound financial sense,
but as I mentioned, cannabisindustry is heavily driven by
state regulations. Right? Inorder to properly advise, you
really have to know the racksbecause there is a lot of
limitation what cannabis operateoperator cannot and cannot do.
Like, for example, whensomebody, like, in New Jersey,
(14:21):
right, like, when somebody isapplying for microbusiness
license, you can only hire 10people.
So, immediately, you know, thelimitation on how many people
you can hire or have on thepayroll, limitation on how how
much product you can produce orhow much product you can
purchase, limitation on the sizeof the store that you can have.
There are a lot of limitationsrelated to advertising. That
(14:44):
that that's why networkingevents are so popular among
cannabis industry because that'sreally when you where you get to
know people, where a lot ofcompanies get to showcase their
product. And when accountantreally knows the regulations,
that's when the value of thestrategic adviser and the
(15:05):
management accountant reallycomes in. You have to know the
regs of that particular state.
Because when you know the regs,when you're looking at the
numbers, then you canimmediately say, like, you're
doing something wrong. You'redoing something outside of the
regulations. There are constantreports that both states and
some of these municipalities ofsome of the states, for example,
(15:27):
in New Jersey, they're requiringfinancial reports. They're
requiring, I mean, you know, allthe records to make sure that
they are getting their taxrevenue because, you know, it's
all about taxes. You know, like,the the states are really
getting a very good share oftaxes, and there's a lot of of
that money going into rebuildingthe communities.
(15:47):
But, yes, cannabis accountant istruly is a strategic adviser and
consultant.
Adam Larson (15:54):
Mhmm. There are some ways that you've been able
to kind of help organizationswhen they're getting started
getting into the industrybecause you've told you've told
me that there's a lot of like,there's this this industry has
an amazing with theircompliance. Like, everything's
tracked and regulated to a t,especially in, you know,
obviously, in this area, the oneyou're familiar with, but you
know that the rest of theindustry is is very much similar
to that. Can we talk a littlebit about the that compliance
(16:16):
and how important that is?
Renata Serban (16:18):
Yeah. Interestingly enough, like, a
lot of people, like, they don'teven realize how much compliance
is involved in the cannabisspace and many cannabis
operators, because there's somuch compliance involved, they
they are very much on top oftheir records. They're very much
on top of, you know, all theoperations because they are
obligated by by law to to followthat. Like, for example, every
(16:43):
cannabis operator, like, fromfrom seed to cell and and that
term, what it means is thatstarting from the cultivation
activity, when you just plantthe cannabis, you know, in into
the ground, you're actuallyassigning an ID to that plant.
And that plant has attack.
It it's sort of like a passport.Right? And every time when when,
(17:04):
you know, when you're movingthat plant from the, you know,
veg veg stage to harvest and totrimming and then into
production, You have to tag itand tag it and tag it. So
anybody who comes, they canactually trace literally from
seed to the final cell. And Idon't believe any other industry
have that compliance.
(17:25):
It's it's a tremendous systemthat a lot of states are using.
They call it track and trace. Soevery time when the operator,
you know, have a license andwhether it's cultivator,
manufacturer, or retailer, theyhave to have all their products
tagged. Like, for example, mostof the states using metric
(17:45):
system. New Jersey uses metric.
New York, for example, usingBIOTRA. California is using
metric. Pennsylvania, I believe,using MJ Freeway. These are all
computerized platforms thatessentially track the movement
of cannabis products within thespace. Yeah.
And a lot of people really don'tknow about that. And the same
(18:07):
when it comes to the banking.Right? A lot of banks that serve
cannabis operators, they alsorequire additional reports.
Right?
You have to you have to showthem how much sales you made,
what exactly you sold and towhom, and to really just to make
sure that there is no productgoing outside of the legal
(18:29):
operations. And it's a lot ofcompliance. That's why we, as
accountants and also a lot ofattorneys, we just it's it's
it's a really good niche for usto advise them to help them.
Because, again, like, the riskof audit like, there there is a
saying in this industry. Like,it's not the matter of if.
It's the matter of when. Youwill be audited. At some point,
(18:52):
you will be audited either byfederal government, by state, or
local. So that's why we alwayshave to be audit ready. It's
just like over of overall stateof mind that a lot of
accountants have when they'reoperating with cannabis
operators.
Of course, there's also anotherissue that, you know, you know,
prevails. There's a lot of smallbusiness owners that kind of
(19:14):
just they're trying to get ontrack with, you know, selling
cannabis products legally.Obviously, there is, you know,
still black a lot of blackmarket involved.
Announcer (19:26):
And,
Renata Serban (19:26):
you know, a lot of people are like, okay. We
gotta make it right. Right? And,especially, you know, what's the
difference between cannabis thatthat is sold on the black market
versus what is sold in inlegalized, you know, licensed
store? Is the quality.
Because every every product thatis being sold in the cannabis
store is is being tested for allthe chemicals, for the
(19:49):
concentration of the THC, andyou know that when you're buying
a product from the licenseddispensary, it's a clean
product. It's like, you know,any other chemicals, it's a
clean product. And when you'rebuying something, you know, on
the street, you really don'tknow what you're buying even
though it's cheaper, but it'salso much more dangerous. And
(20:09):
that's really, like, you know,like, it's you really have to
teach a lot of start you know,start ups how to run a business.
They know how to grow.
They know how to sell. But youreally have to explain to them.
You have to have people onpayroll. You have to pay payroll
taxes. You have to have thisinsurance.
You have to do this. You have todo that. It's really teach them
(20:31):
how to run a business. I foundmyself a lot in this situation.
But Yeah.
Adam Larson (20:35):
It's like you're no longer the, the the you're no
longer the the accountant.You're so somebody coming like
the operating officer or, like,the chief consultant where
you're kinda showing them theropes of things.
Renata Serban (20:46):
Yes. And and and, like, I guess we have to come up
with some kind of a term that isappropriate. I don't know.
Accounting strategic officer orsomething like that. Because,
again, it's not just about thecompliance and, you know,
there's this common perceptionabout, you know, that we account
as a just commodity.
And it always always bothers me.Like, we're not a commodity.
We're people who save you, whowho keeps you, you know, out of
(21:10):
jail for nonpayment of taxes.You know? We keep you safe.
We know the regulations. We knowhow to do tax work. We know how
to do a test work. And becausewe know that, we can that's when
the value comes in. That's whenwe can actually advise you how
to do better within the limitsof the law.
And a lot of people, they justdon't know what they don't know.
(21:31):
And my role is always, like, I Ihave to explain and, you know,
educate people on that.
Adam Larson (21:37):
In such a fast growing industry, there's, you
know, there's a lot ofespecially in places that are
recreational is becomingavailable, like, places like New
Jersey, New York, though theyrecently happened. And, you
know, all these places arepopping up, and then, you know,
the next day you see articles inNew York City. The mayor was
burning tons and tons ofillegal, cannabis. You know, how
(21:58):
do you navigate those waters ifsomebody's, like, interested?
Like, hey.
I wanna get in this entry. Iwanna get connected. How can
somebody get connected andfigure out? Because it seems
like it's it's a constant up anddown, like, kind of like a start
ups where, like, tons of startups happen, like, in technology,
but then a bunch of them failed.Do you think that's gonna happen
in the cannabis industry aswell?
Renata Serban (22:16):
Well, there, of course, you know, back in the
day when it was that goldenrush. Right? Like, peep people
were trying to mine, you know,gold. You know, people were
looking for the opportunities.Right?
So in this industry, we call ita green rush. You know, people
hear cannabis. They think it's alot of money. It is it is,
profitable industry, but there'smuch more to it, like, in order
(22:39):
to be profitable, really.There's a lot of people entering
this industry just for the sakeof the opportunity.
Most of my clients, they have apersonal story. They have a
relationship with the plan whereit helped them in any way. But
there are also a lot of, youknow, people that just they see
opportunity. You know? Why not?
The main problem really when itcomes to operating a cannabis
(23:02):
business is particularly NewYork and New Jersey is really
the location because it's it'svery limited where you can
operate. Right? In New Jersey,for example, only 30% of
municipalities opted in, meaningonly 30% of municipalities allow
cannabis operators within theirjurisdictions, and 70% opted
(23:23):
out. They can still opted in atsome point, but, you know, the
the state sort of gave them, youknow, the option. In New York,
the the the same, you know, alittle bit different than New
Jersey, but but but similar.
Some of the municipality, theyhad, option to up the in or out
(23:44):
of the retail dispensaries, butthe the majority of them kinda
allow in the, you know, thecultivation and the
manufacturing. And in New Yorkin particular, right, when the
when the marijuana taxation, andregulation act was passed in
March of 2021, there's a lot ofillegal cannabis stores started
to pop up. Right? And theytotally were taking advantage of
(24:07):
the fact that people didn't knowthat there is a licensing
process. They kinda saw in thenews that they got legalized in
New York, and all of a sudden,there's all the stores popped
up, and they were totallyoperating without license.
Adam Larson (24:20):
Mhmm.
Renata Serban (24:20):
And for some time, there was a lot of issues
with that because sort of stateallowed, New York City in
particular allowed that. And,you know, they had to come up
with additional regulations tosort of give, you know, power to
the enforcement agency to lockdown those stores really, like,
starting this year aftergovernor Katie Hogle kinda,
(24:42):
like, put it within the budget.Mhmm. You know, there's a lot of
stores started to be lockeddown, like, literally, and,
like, within couple of months, Ithink, since June, there's so
many stores got closed. So thethe state revenue, the tax
revenue went tremendously afterall the stores were closed.
But, yes, there is obviously,you know, always that
(25:03):
competition, legal market versusblack market. It's always there.
But as more people know andkinda being aware that product
in a licensed cannabis dispenseris much better quality, they
kinda try, you know, to stayaway from the black market. And,
of course, there's a lot ofchallenges if anybody decides to
(25:24):
enter into this industry. Youlike, I'll always recommend, you
have to do your own homework.
Yes. You can hire consultants.Yes. You can hire attorney, but
you have to do your own homeworkbecause this is unlike anything
else. You have to apply for thelicense.
There's a lot of time, you know,hurry up and wait, we call it.
Like, you you have to, like,really, like, write an
(25:44):
application, and then you justwait. So it's just like that
specific. You have to be readyfor that, and that only counts
when you do your own research,you know, specific of particular
states, what needs to be, youknow, when you apply for the
license. So there's a lot ofnuances involved.
And, again, it's niche. It'svery specialized niche for
anybody who's in this industry.
Adam Larson (26:04):
Yeah. It's it is very specialized. I I appreciate
I appreciate your explanationbecause that really that really,
makes it very clear. So, youknow, when we're looking to the
future, potential seems endlesswith this industry. What do you
think is is next?
Like, obviously, congress in theUS takes forever to make
decisions, but maybe there canbe other some other things that
happen in the industry exceptfor waiting for the scheduling
(26:24):
and descheduling and what whatto make a decision.
Renata Serban (26:28):
Well, I think, you know, if I remember
correctly, I literally today, Isaw that the hearing is
scheduled for December 2ndbetween the DEA and, you know,
the the related agencies tokinda hear about, you know,
arguments from both sides aboutrescheduling. Obviously, you
know, the presidential electionsare coming up. I think, you
(26:50):
know, it's we'll see how thatgoes. Each each candidate have
different plan when even when itcomes to taxation. I know I know
Kamala Harris.
She's she's coauthor of the MOREAct. MORE Act is marijuana
opportunity, rejuvenation andexpungement act, I think,
(27:12):
something like that. So thatact, would essentially
completely decriminalizecannabis. Mhmm. And it would
impose excise tax on cannabisproducts, would allow interstate
commerce.
And, also, big piece of thatlegislation is the criminal
justice reform. Right? So peoplewho got arrested for the
(27:33):
cannabis, you know, all theconventions convictions will be
expunged. So Kamala Harris,given her background as a former
prosecutor, like, you know,that's her goal. Donald Trump,
on the other side, you know,hinted his support also on
rescheduling.
And, again, like, as I mentionedbefore, from schedule 1 to
schedule 3, which, it it justwill be less federal oversight,
(27:57):
but there still will be federalgovernment will be controlling
since it's gonna be on onschedule 3. But, nevertheless,
you know, when politics areinvolved, of course, they're
gonna meet somewhere in themiddle. I think, like,
something's gonna happen nomatter which presidential
candidate will be the next term.I think there will be more
movement towards positivetowards, you know, maybe maybe
(28:19):
something related to bankingbecause, again, it's a big issue
within the cannabis space. Maybesome additional regulations, you
know, loosen up for the youknow, and allow, you know,
better access to banking.
But we all wait for the at leastrescheduling because that way,
the 2 80 will go away.
Adam Larson (28:36):
Mhmm.
Renata Serban (28:36):
Because 280 only applies to schedule 12
substances, and schedule 3,obviously, doesn't apply. So I'm
very excited for for theupcoming, you know, elections. I
actually registered to vote.Wasn't really wasn't really much
into it, but I think now it'stime. So I'll recommend that
anybody else also to kinda,like, you know, contribute their
(28:59):
vote.
Some people might think, youknow, my vote won't make a
difference, but then, like, youknow, like, add 5,000,000 who
think like that. And then if,you know, you can change their
mind, like, no. Your your voteis matter. I think that's
important as well. Butregardless, I think the positive
change change is coming nomatter who the president will
be.
Adam Larson (29:20):
That's good. It's encouraging to hear, you know,
especially since if you look atresearch that was done outside
of the United States, there'sbeen so many benefits that have
been outlined, especiallymedical research and stuff like
that. And because it's been on aschedule 1 for so long, people
haven't been able to participateor do extensive studies. And so,
hopefully, the deregulationhelps and people can actually
see the medical benefits forthis for that plant for this
(29:42):
beautiful plant that grows inthe ground because I think we're
we're robbing people for notbeing not allowing them to have
access to it to something sothat's been so helpful to so
many.
Renata Serban (29:53):
I agree. And, again, like, cannabis is a very,
you know, very common amongcancer patients, especially, you
know, especially for kids thatare undergoing chemo because all
the, you know, painkillers thatwould help you kind of, you
know, mitigate the pain fromchemo, they they all have
terrible side effects. And a lotof parents who unfortunately
(30:17):
have sick kids, they're goingthrough leukemia or through some
other, you know, pain. Like,they they heavily using cannabis
for as alternative medicine forthem because that's the only one
that really helps them calm withthe pain and with the sleep. And
I I I truly hope that little bylittle, the stereotypes will
Adam Larson (30:38):
Mhmm.
Renata Serban (30:39):
Change and, you know, the federal reform,
hopefully, will will assist inthat.
Adam Larson (30:46):
Yeah. And if you look at the propaganda from the
thirties, I think a lot of ourstereotypes still stem from that
propaganda, which is which isterrible, and it's very much
something that happens in the USway too often that propaganda
from years years ago stillaffects people's mindsets today.
So, hopefully, we as people canevolve and grow beyond
(31:06):
propaganda that doesn't sayanything true.
Renata Serban (31:10):
Yeah. And interestingly enough, I I read
the history of that. As I said,before, you know, AlcoGol was
completely, you know, banned.Cannabis was was, you know,
available, and then they kinda,you know, sort of find an
alternative evil. Okay.
Let's make cannabis now, youknow, prohibited. Mhmm. And ever
since, you know, it was it wastotally utilized in the wrong
(31:30):
direction. It was like apolitical tool. And it will take
some time, obviously, to breakthose stereotypes, but, you
know, the positive change iscoming for sure.
Adam Larson (31:39):
Definitely. Well, Renata, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast. Thishas been a great conversation.
Hope you guys check out whatRenata's doing. Follow her on
LinkedIn and connect with her,And, we hope
to have you back to talk aboutthis topic again as the industry
constantly changes. So thanksagain for coming.
Renata Serban (31:54):
Thank you for having me.
Announcer (31:57):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
Welcome back to Count Me In. On today's episode,
we sit down with Renata Serban,founder of Highly Elevated CPA.
We'll delve into key issues likethe bipartisan push for cannabis
rescheduling in the US and thecritical role of accountants in
navigating the complexregulations. Renata shares her
insights on the medical benefitsof cannabis, especially for
cancer patients, and the ongoingbattle against outdated
(00:42):
stereotypes. Plus, we'll discussthe potential future changes in
banking and legislation based onthe US elections.
Join us for an enlighteningconversation on the evolving
world of cannabis. And, I'm justso excited to have you
on the Count Me In podcast. Andtoday, we're gonna
be talking about accounting inhighly regulated industries,
(01:04):
specifically today, the cannabisindustry. And I figured before
we get started in that, I wasthought you could share a little
bit about your journey to howyou got to this point so far.
Renata Serban (01:14):
Well, Adam, well, first of all, thank you so much
for inviting me for for thispodcast. It's an honor to be
here. Never miss an opportunity,you know, for any podcast to
kind of voice my opinion, and, Ithink it's a great initiative. I
really appreciate that. So mybackground in my career journey
is very unorthodox.
Right? I wasn't born here. Icame here 2007. I'm originally
(01:36):
from Kazakhstan, which is acountry in Central Asia. And my
family is also very diversebackground.
Right? My dad was always intosports, and my mom, she works
for the city agency. So my dadwas always pushing me into
sports and be best at sports,and my mom was always pushing
me, you know, to be best atschool. That's why I have a
(01:58):
brown belt in judo and summa cumlaude in in all my education.
And back home, I got a degree inchemical engineering simply
because the academy of my homecountry is heavily based also on
oil and gas, so chemicalengineering was very, you know,
an intuitive choice.
When I come here to the US in2007 to really kinda learn
(02:20):
English and and get someeducation, because American
education when especially whenit comes to business is top of
the line, I chose the career of,you know, the career of
accountant because I just knewthat in order to continue in
chemical engineering, it wouldbe it would be just so much
harder for me that there was alanguage barrier, and most of
(02:41):
the good schools really in inchemical engineering are
somewhere in Texas. So being inNew York, the logical choice was
really to choose career inaccounting. It was also very,
you know, practical profession.I knew I could always find a
job, and it was just, like, soeasy for me. You know?
Like, math, debits, and credits,it was just so easy for me to
understand. But, you know, onceyou start really pursuing the
(03:05):
career, when you are animmigrant, right, it's a little
bit different battle you have toface. Right? You you really have
to be, like, 2 steps ahead ofeverybody else. I knew I need to
get all the way in my education.
I knew I need to get certifiedmanagement accountant, certified
public accountant, master'sdegree in accounting, get a
combination of private andpublic accounting experience,
(03:27):
you know, to kinda set myselfapart. That was that was always
my goal. And it looks like sofar, you know, I'm I'm the
founder of my own practice,highly elevated CPA, providing
accounting and consultingservices to cannabis operators
in New York and New Jersey. Andthat's really was my path coming
all the way to to this point.Like, very long journey, very,
(03:51):
like, you know, hard.
Adam Larson (03:54):
Oh, yeah. I'm sure that there is a lot of ups and
downs through that wholejourney, but it's it's great to
hear how you got to where youwere in running a successful
business right now is a reallyawesome thing in an industry
that is kind of just burgeoningin the US because, you know, it
was it's obviously if anybodyfollows the headlines in the US,
it's it's it's still illegalfederally, but at a state level,
(04:16):
state by state, they're kind ofthey're legalizing it. So
there's a lot of room for grayareas. So, you know, what what
drew you to the cannabisindustry, and and what about it
keeps you going in it? Becauseit it sounds like it's a
fascinating, thing to getstarted in.
Renata Serban (04:30):
It is. And a lot of people really don't know
that, you know, before the, youknow, the prohibition back in
the thirties, cannabis wastotally legal. And it's really
and then it was kinda like areversal where, you know,
prohibition was over, and thencannabis all of a sudden, you
know, got criminalized, andthat's how we get there. Like, I
(04:51):
think it was a really bigmistake. I think there was a lot
of politics involved at thattime.
How I got involved into thatvery easy. Cannabis for me is
the medication. It's amedication that, sort of there's
no side effects. It really helpsme with my insomnia. It really
helps me with with my migraine.
(05:12):
It really helps me with painmanagement. You know, as you get
older, like, it hurtseverywhere. And so that's on a
personal basis. And then ithappened that, when I was part
of the Sachin Cooperman team, Iwas originally recruited into
their business advisory servicesagain because of my diverse
experience and combination ofprivate and public knowledge, of
(05:36):
course, accounting. Thank thankthank you to certified
management accountingcertification.
I immediately got pulled intocannabis advisory services
group. And you know how it goesin the cannabis space, like, 1
year goes for 7. So, like, ifyou work in this industry for a
year, like, you're alreadyconsidered a veteran because
it's just such a fast pacedenvironment, such a fast paced
(05:58):
industry, and especially what Ilove about this industry, the
the diverse background of peoplethat are involved. I work a lot
with with doctors. I work a lotwith cancer patients, you know,
survivors.
You know, cannabis helped them alot going through chemo. A lot
of my clients also disabledveterans. Cannabis also helped
them, go through through theirpain and disability. And it's
(06:23):
really I think that there'sjust, like, so many stereotypes
in this industry, and just dueto lack of knowledge what
exactly this plant is and how itaffects our body and, you know,
that common perception about thestoners and stuff. But if you
think about it, you know, ifyou're drinking and if you're,
like, overusing it, like, nobodytalks about that, but for some
(06:45):
reason so I think it's it's alsoa lot about stereotypes, and
working in a highly regulatedindustry presents a lot of
challenges, of course, butthat's what makes it a very
specialized niche.
Mhmm. You really have to knowthe regulations of the states
where you're operating. We allknow at the federal level is
illegal, but it's really heavilydriven by states and the
(07:08):
regulations of the states is andas an accountant as a very
qualified accountant, you reallyhave to know the regulations in
order to properly advise yourclients. You know, ever since, I
started to be involved in thisindustry since 2021, like, ever
since, like, as I said, 3 years,like, times 7. I'm gonna
(07:28):
celebrate 25 year anniversarynext year.
Adam Larson (07:31):
Well, it sounds like you have to there's a lot
you have to wade through as anaccountant. So when when you're
in this type of industry andthere's not a lot of guidance,
like federal guidance, there'snot a lot of state guidance,
there's maybe there might be alittle bit at the state level,
but there's not a lot ofguidance. What skills and
framework should accounting andlike, accounting teams kind of
rely on to to make sure thatyou're doing things properly?
Because in a lot of places, it'scash only, and it's not like all
(07:53):
these great new newfangled,systems can't count cash for
you.
Renata Serban (07:59):
Yes. So that is true. There's really, like,
really not that much guidance. Imean, the entire tax framework
for the tax preparation of thecannabis operators is really 77
words of the 2 a d section ofIRS code and the key tax court
cases. And that's pretty muchit.
So what skills you need isreally, like, research the
(08:21):
research. You have to you haveto know all those key court tax
cases and to sign a kind ofmaking a conclusion based on
the, you know, judge and judge'sruling. You have to do the
research and kinda take veryconservative position to make
sure that the client isprotected. And the cash, yes,
it's a very cash intensiveindustry and, you know, like,
(08:43):
because it's federal illegal,there are not many banks that
are willing to serve cannabisoperators. But there are still
some solutions.
You know? Cannabis operators,you know, they they always
finding a way. They're veryadaptive. But there are some
banks that still bank little bylittle, there's more banks that
(09:03):
are coming on board, and I thinkalso especially in light of
current talks of rescheduling.Mhmm.
I think, you know, people aretalking more about more about it
than, you know, what both of thepresidential candidates sort of
seem to be in support of thecannabis rescheduling, so to
say. Yeah. It's it's it's reallya lot of research, a lot of
(09:27):
reading. We also, as a chair ofthe cannabis committee of the
New York State Society of CPAs,it's like it's a lot of also
sharing of experience. Right?
It's it's like, how do youhandle this? Like, how do you
approach? Why why do youapproach it this way? Just like
really speaking with otherpractitioners specializing in
this as well. That pretty muchit.
(09:47):
The it's not like there is onebook you can read and know how
to do it. No. It's not.
Adam Larson (09:53):
Yeah. It sounds like networking with other
people who are in the industryis a great way to learn. Are
Yeah. Yeah. Are you find thatthe within this industry, that
there will or do you think thatwithin this industry that there
will be times where you guyswill find better ways to do
things?
And, eventually, when the restof the world catches up, you'll
be like, hey, guys. We've beendoing it this better way for so
(10:14):
long, and you might you might beable to improve upon processes
at a larger level because youguys are having to be get so
creative because there is noguidance.
Renata Serban (10:23):
Well, I think once it's, once it's rescheduled
or descheduled and let meclarify that. So currently,
cannabis is on schedule 1 ofControl Substances Act. Right?
Control substance schedule 1means that cannabis is on that
schedule, heroin and cocaine.And, like, those are substances
(10:44):
that have no medical kind ofintent, which we all know is
incorrect.
Cannabis extensively use asmedication. When it will be
rescheduled to schedule 3, whichthere are also a lot of
medications that it wouldrequire medical prescription 280
wouldn't apply. So that's whywhen we talk about rescheduling,
(11:09):
it's literally moving,reclassifying cannabis from
schedule 1 and moving it toschedule 3. Desccheduling, on
other hand, means that cannabiswill be completely decre
decriminalized. It's not gonnabe on any of the schedules, and,
you know, it will be treated assimilar to tobacco and alcohol
(11:30):
industry.
The interstate commerce will beallowed. There might be some
excise taxes on cannabisproducts sold, but it will be
completely differentenvironment. And I think there
will be a lot of opportunities.
Adam Larson (11:41):
Yeah. It sounds like there would be a lot of
opportunities. And, plus, if youdeschedule it, you would allow
for a lot more tax revenue andrevenue for the for the country
and for the states. Right? So itwould seem to make sense in some
ways, maybe.
Renata Serban (11:56):
In either way, where either it's reschedule or
descheduled, I think there is alot of, thought. Mhmm. There's
not enough research done aboutcannabis because cannabis plant
has a lot of potential, and alot of people just they just
don't know about it. There's alot of really, like, medical
potential that a a lot ofpeople, they they just don't
(12:17):
know about it. So I'm thinkingonce once it's rescheduled,
really, the accounting bodieswill will come together and
kinda maybe provide some kind ofa guidance, or maybe will be
just treated like, you know,cultivation, for example.
Right? Who anybody who's growingprobably will be approaching in
a similar way as anyagriculture. Mhmm. The same in
the manufacturing. And anybodywho's manufacturing, you know,
(12:39):
cannabis products probably willbe also similar to accounting
for manufacturers.
And the same for the retailers,it's gonna be similar to the
ecommerce. And, Canada is rightthere around the corner. I'm
pretty sure that some of thesome of the best practices will
be also adapted. Cannabis islegalized in a lot of European
(13:02):
countries as well. Germany isone of them.
And, actually, I wish I I I knewGerman because there are
actually some books to cannabisaccounting and related to
cannabis that are in German. AndI'm like, oof, I I wish I knew
how to speak that language so Icould read more on the
Adam Larson (13:20):
Yeah. Maybe maybe we can, get a group effort and
try to get it translated sothat, you know, the cannabis
folks in the US can kinda learnfrom the
Renata Serban (13:28):
That's a great idea, actually. I haven't
thought about it.
Adam Larson (13:31):
Yeah. So when you're an accountant within this
realm, you know, so you werejust talking about how, like,
when it when they finally makedecision to deregulate or
schedule it differently, it'llprobably just fall into the same
accounting practices withinthose industries. But it sounds
like you as an accountant, youkinda have to be that
consultant, that businesspartner with the organization
because, you know, people arestarting new businesses just
(13:54):
like any other business. Youneed to have somebody who has
sound financial sense to kindahelp guide the organization.
Renata Serban (14:01):
That is true. And not only sound financial sense,
but as I mentioned, cannabisindustry is heavily driven by
state regulations. Right? Inorder to properly advise, you
really have to know the racksbecause there is a lot of
limitation what cannabis operateoperator cannot and cannot do.
Like, for example, whensomebody, like, in New Jersey,
(14:21):
right, like, when somebody isapplying for microbusiness
license, you can only hire 10people.
So, immediately, you know, thelimitation on how many people
you can hire or have on thepayroll, limitation on how how
much product you can produce orhow much product you can
purchase, limitation on the sizeof the store that you can have.
There are a lot of limitationsrelated to advertising. That
(14:44):
that that's why networkingevents are so popular among
cannabis industry because that'sreally when you where you get to
know people, where a lot ofcompanies get to showcase their
product. And when accountantreally knows the regulations,
that's when the value of thestrategic adviser and the
(15:05):
management accountant reallycomes in. You have to know the
regs of that particular state.
Because when you know the regs,when you're looking at the
numbers, then you canimmediately say, like, you're
doing something wrong. You'redoing something outside of the
regulations. There are constantreports that both states and
some of these municipalities ofsome of the states, for example,
(15:27):
in New Jersey, they're requiringfinancial reports. They're
requiring, I mean, you know, allthe records to make sure that
they are getting their taxrevenue because, you know, it's
all about taxes. You know, like,the the states are really
getting a very good share oftaxes, and there's a lot of of
that money going into rebuildingthe communities.
(15:47):
But, yes, cannabis accountant istruly is a strategic adviser and
consultant.
Adam Larson (15:54):
Mhmm. There are some ways that you've been able
to kind of help organizationswhen they're getting started
getting into the industrybecause you've told you've told
me that there's a lot of like,there's this this industry has
an amazing with theircompliance. Like, everything's
tracked and regulated to a t,especially in, you know,
obviously, in this area, the oneyou're familiar with, but you
know that the rest of theindustry is is very much similar
to that. Can we talk a littlebit about the that compliance
(16:16):
and how important that is?
Renata Serban (16:18):
Yeah. Interestingly enough, like, a
lot of people, like, they don'teven realize how much compliance
is involved in the cannabisspace and many cannabis
operators, because there's somuch compliance involved, they
they are very much on top oftheir records. They're very much
on top of, you know, all theoperations because they are
obligated by by law to to followthat. Like, for example, every
(16:43):
cannabis operator, like, fromfrom seed to cell and and that
term, what it means is thatstarting from the cultivation
activity, when you just plantthe cannabis, you know, in into
the ground, you're actuallyassigning an ID to that plant.
And that plant has attack.
It it's sort of like a passport.Right? And every time when when,
(17:04):
you know, when you're movingthat plant from the, you know,
veg veg stage to harvest and totrimming and then into
production, You have to tag itand tag it and tag it. So
anybody who comes, they canactually trace literally from
seed to the final cell. And Idon't believe any other industry
have that compliance.
(17:25):
It's it's a tremendous systemthat a lot of states are using.
They call it track and trace. Soevery time when the operator,
you know, have a license andwhether it's cultivator,
manufacturer, or retailer, theyhave to have all their products
tagged. Like, for example, mostof the states using metric
(17:45):
system. New Jersey uses metric.
New York, for example, usingBIOTRA. California is using
metric. Pennsylvania, I believe,using MJ Freeway. These are all
computerized platforms thatessentially track the movement
of cannabis products within thespace. Yeah.
And a lot of people really don'tknow about that. And the same
(18:07):
when it comes to the banking.Right? A lot of banks that serve
cannabis operators, they alsorequire additional reports.
Right?
You have to you have to showthem how much sales you made,
what exactly you sold and towhom, and to really just to make
sure that there is no productgoing outside of the legal
(18:29):
operations. And it's a lot ofcompliance. That's why we, as
accountants and also a lot ofattorneys, we just it's it's
it's a really good niche for usto advise them to help them.
Because, again, like, the riskof audit like, there there is a
saying in this industry. Like,it's not the matter of if.
It's the matter of when. Youwill be audited. At some point,
(18:52):
you will be audited either byfederal government, by state, or
local. So that's why we alwayshave to be audit ready. It's
just like over of overall stateof mind that a lot of
accountants have when they'reoperating with cannabis
operators.
Of course, there's also anotherissue that, you know, you know,
prevails. There's a lot of smallbusiness owners that kind of
(19:14):
just they're trying to get ontrack with, you know, selling
cannabis products legally.Obviously, there is, you know,
still black a lot of blackmarket involved.
Announcer (19:26):
And,
Renata Serban (19:26):
you know, a lot of people are like, okay. We
gotta make it right. Right? And,especially, you know, what's the
difference between cannabis thatthat is sold on the black market
versus what is sold in inlegalized, you know, licensed
store? Is the quality.
Because every every product thatis being sold in the cannabis
store is is being tested for allthe chemicals, for the
(19:49):
concentration of the THC, andyou know that when you're buying
a product from the licenseddispensary, it's a clean
product. It's like, you know,any other chemicals, it's a
clean product. And when you'rebuying something, you know, on
the street, you really don'tknow what you're buying even
though it's cheaper, but it'salso much more dangerous. And
(20:09):
that's really, like, you know,like, it's you really have to
teach a lot of start you know,start ups how to run a business.
They know how to grow.
They know how to sell. But youreally have to explain to them.
You have to have people onpayroll. You have to pay payroll
taxes. You have to have thisinsurance.
You have to do this. You have todo that. It's really teach them
(20:31):
how to run a business. I foundmyself a lot in this situation.
But Yeah.
Adam Larson (20:35):
It's like you're no longer the, the the you're no
longer the the accountant.You're so somebody coming like
the operating officer or, like,the chief consultant where
you're kinda showing them theropes of things.
Renata Serban (20:46):
Yes. And and and, like, I guess we have to come up
with some kind of a term that isappropriate. I don't know.
Accounting strategic officer orsomething like that. Because,
again, it's not just about thecompliance and, you know,
there's this common perceptionabout, you know, that we account
as a just commodity.
And it always always bothers me.Like, we're not a commodity.
We're people who save you, whowho keeps you, you know, out of
(21:10):
jail for nonpayment of taxes.You know? We keep you safe.
We know the regulations. We knowhow to do tax work. We know how
to do a test work. And becausewe know that, we can that's when
the value comes in. That's whenwe can actually advise you how
to do better within the limitsof the law.
And a lot of people, they justdon't know what they don't know.
(21:31):
And my role is always, like, I Ihave to explain and, you know,
educate people on that.
Adam Larson (21:37):
In such a fast growing industry, there's, you
know, there's a lot ofespecially in places that are
recreational is becomingavailable, like, places like New
Jersey, New York, though theyrecently happened. And, you
know, all these places arepopping up, and then, you know,
the next day you see articles inNew York City. The mayor was
burning tons and tons ofillegal, cannabis. You know, how
(21:58):
do you navigate those waters ifsomebody's, like, interested?
Like, hey.
I wanna get in this entry. Iwanna get connected. How can
somebody get connected andfigure out? Because it seems
like it's it's a constant up anddown, like, kind of like a start
ups where, like, tons of startups happen, like, in technology,
but then a bunch of them failed.Do you think that's gonna happen
in the cannabis industry aswell?
Renata Serban (22:16):
Well, there, of course, you know, back in the
day when it was that goldenrush. Right? Like, peep people
were trying to mine, you know,gold. You know, people were
looking for the opportunities.Right?
So in this industry, we call ita green rush. You know, people
hear cannabis. They think it's alot of money. It is it is,
profitable industry, but there'smuch more to it, like, in order
(22:39):
to be profitable, really.There's a lot of people entering
this industry just for the sakeof the opportunity.
Most of my clients, they have apersonal story. They have a
relationship with the plan whereit helped them in any way. But
there are also a lot of, youknow, people that just they see
opportunity. You know? Why not?
The main problem really when itcomes to operating a cannabis
(23:02):
business is particularly NewYork and New Jersey is really
the location because it's it'svery limited where you can
operate. Right? In New Jersey,for example, only 30% of
municipalities opted in, meaningonly 30% of municipalities allow
cannabis operators within theirjurisdictions, and 70% opted
(23:23):
out. They can still opted in atsome point, but, you know, the
the state sort of gave them, youknow, the option. In New York,
the the the same, you know, alittle bit different than New
Jersey, but but but similar.
Some of the municipality, theyhad, option to up the in or out
(23:44):
of the retail dispensaries, butthe the majority of them kinda
allow in the, you know, thecultivation and the
manufacturing. And in New Yorkin particular, right, when the
when the marijuana taxation, andregulation act was passed in
March of 2021, there's a lot ofillegal cannabis stores started
to pop up. Right? And theytotally were taking advantage of
(24:07):
the fact that people didn't knowthat there is a licensing
process. They kinda saw in thenews that they got legalized in
New York, and all of a sudden,there's all the stores popped
up, and they were totallyoperating without license.
Adam Larson (24:20):
Mhmm.
Renata Serban (24:20):
And for some time, there was a lot of issues
with that because sort of stateallowed, New York City in
particular allowed that. And,you know, they had to come up
with additional regulations tosort of give, you know, power to
the enforcement agency to lockdown those stores really, like,
starting this year aftergovernor Katie Hogle kinda,
(24:42):
like, put it within the budget.Mhmm. You know, there's a lot of
stores started to be lockeddown, like, literally, and,
like, within couple of months, Ithink, since June, there's so
many stores got closed. So thethe state revenue, the tax
revenue went tremendously afterall the stores were closed.
But, yes, there is obviously,you know, always that
(25:03):
competition, legal market versusblack market. It's always there.
But as more people know andkinda being aware that product
in a licensed cannabis dispenseris much better quality, they
kinda try, you know, to stayaway from the black market. And,
of course, there's a lot ofchallenges if anybody decides to
(25:24):
enter into this industry. Youlike, I'll always recommend, you
have to do your own homework.
Yes. You can hire consultants.Yes. You can hire attorney, but
you have to do your own homeworkbecause this is unlike anything
else. You have to apply for thelicense.
There's a lot of time, you know,hurry up and wait, we call it.
Like, you you have to, like,really, like, write an
(25:44):
application, and then you justwait. So it's just like that
specific. You have to be readyfor that, and that only counts
when you do your own research,you know, specific of particular
states, what needs to be, youknow, when you apply for the
license. So there's a lot ofnuances involved.
And, again, it's niche. It'svery specialized niche for
anybody who's in this industry.
Adam Larson (26:04):
Yeah. It's it is very specialized. I I appreciate
I appreciate your explanationbecause that really that really,
makes it very clear. So, youknow, when we're looking to the
future, potential seems endlesswith this industry. What do you
think is is next?
Like, obviously, congress in theUS takes forever to make
decisions, but maybe there canbe other some other things that
happen in the industry exceptfor waiting for the scheduling
(26:24):
and descheduling and what whatto make a decision.
Renata Serban (26:28):
Well, I think, you know, if I remember
correctly, I literally today, Isaw that the hearing is
scheduled for December 2ndbetween the DEA and, you know,
the the related agencies tokinda hear about, you know,
arguments from both sides aboutrescheduling. Obviously, you
know, the presidential electionsare coming up. I think, you
(26:50):
know, it's we'll see how thatgoes. Each each candidate have
different plan when even when itcomes to taxation. I know I know
Kamala Harris.
She's she's coauthor of the MOREAct. MORE Act is marijuana
opportunity, rejuvenation andexpungement act, I think,
(27:12):
something like that. So thatact, would essentially
completely decriminalizecannabis. Mhmm. And it would
impose excise tax on cannabisproducts, would allow interstate
commerce.
And, also, big piece of thatlegislation is the criminal
justice reform. Right? So peoplewho got arrested for the
(27:33):
cannabis, you know, all theconventions convictions will be
expunged. So Kamala Harris,given her background as a former
prosecutor, like, you know,that's her goal. Donald Trump,
on the other side, you know,hinted his support also on
rescheduling.
And, again, like, as I mentionedbefore, from schedule 1 to
schedule 3, which, it it justwill be less federal oversight,
(27:57):
but there still will be federalgovernment will be controlling
since it's gonna be on onschedule 3. But, nevertheless,
you know, when politics areinvolved, of course, they're
gonna meet somewhere in themiddle. I think, like,
something's gonna happen nomatter which presidential
candidate will be the next term.I think there will be more
movement towards positivetowards, you know, maybe maybe
(28:19):
something related to bankingbecause, again, it's a big issue
within the cannabis space. Maybesome additional regulations, you
know, loosen up for the youknow, and allow, you know,
better access to banking.
But we all wait for the at leastrescheduling because that way,
the 2 80 will go away.
Adam Larson (28:36):
Mhmm.
Renata Serban (28:36):
Because 280 only applies to schedule 12
substances, and schedule 3,obviously, doesn't apply. So I'm
very excited for for theupcoming, you know, elections. I
actually registered to vote.Wasn't really wasn't really much
into it, but I think now it'stime. So I'll recommend that
anybody else also to kinda,like, you know, contribute their
(28:59):
vote.
Some people might think, youknow, my vote won't make a
difference, but then, like, youknow, like, add 5,000,000 who
think like that. And then if,you know, you can change their
mind, like, no. Your your voteis matter. I think that's
important as well. Butregardless, I think the positive
change change is coming nomatter who the president will
be.
Adam Larson (29:20):
That's good. It's encouraging to hear, you know,
especially since if you look atresearch that was done outside
of the United States, there'sbeen so many benefits that have
been outlined, especiallymedical research and stuff like
that. And because it's been on aschedule 1 for so long, people
haven't been able to participateor do extensive studies. And so,
hopefully, the deregulationhelps and people can actually
see the medical benefits forthis for that plant for this
(29:42):
beautiful plant that grows inthe ground because I think we're
we're robbing people for notbeing not allowing them to have
access to it to something sothat's been so helpful to so
many.
Renata Serban (29:53):
I agree. And, again, like, cannabis is a very,
you know, very common amongcancer patients, especially, you
know, especially for kids thatare undergoing chemo because all
the, you know, painkillers thatwould help you kind of, you
know, mitigate the pain fromchemo, they they all have
terrible side effects. And a lotof parents who unfortunately
(30:17):
have sick kids, they're goingthrough leukemia or through some
other, you know, pain. Like,they they heavily using cannabis
for as alternative medicine forthem because that's the only one
that really helps them calm withthe pain and with the sleep. And
I I I truly hope that little bylittle, the stereotypes will
Adam Larson (30:38):
Mhmm.
Renata Serban (30:39):
Change and, you know, the federal reform,
hopefully, will will assist inthat.
Adam Larson (30:46):
Yeah. And if you look at the propaganda from the
thirties, I think a lot of ourstereotypes still stem from that
propaganda, which is which isterrible, and it's very much
something that happens in the USway too often that propaganda
from years years ago stillaffects people's mindsets today.
So, hopefully, we as people canevolve and grow beyond
(31:06):
propaganda that doesn't sayanything true.
Renata Serban (31:10):
Yeah. And interestingly enough, I I read
the history of that. As I said,before, you know, AlcoGol was
completely, you know, banned.Cannabis was was, you know,
available, and then they kinda,you know, sort of find an
alternative evil. Okay.
Let's make cannabis now, youknow, prohibited. Mhmm. And ever
since, you know, it was it wastotally utilized in the wrong
(31:30):
direction. It was like apolitical tool. And it will take
some time, obviously, to breakthose stereotypes, but, you
know, the positive change iscoming for sure.
Adam Larson (31:39):
Definitely. Well, Renata, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast. Thishas been a great conversation.
Hope you guys check out whatRenata's doing. Follow her on
LinkedIn and connect with her,And, we hope
to have you back to talk aboutthis topic again as the industry
constantly changes. So thanksagain for coming.
Renata Serban (31:54):
Thank you for having me.
Announcer (31:57):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
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