Prof Dr Margarete Imhof, Franziska Ohl, MSc, and Sebastian Laube, MSc work in the Institute for Psychology, and there specifically in the Department of Psychology in Education at Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz in Germany. They are members of the feedback portfolio project, supporting lecturers and students in their department with the creation of portfolios.
Franziska, Margarete, and Sebastian are strong believers in portfolios and how they can empower students in becoming reflective practitioners, engage meaningfully in feedback processes, and ultimately be good teachers. In this episode, in particular, they talk about their feedback practices, the use of templates, and how collaboration amongst students and also with lecturers can be scaffolded.
Connect with
Resources
- Sebastian's video series on Mahara
- Sebastian's current template
- AAEEBL Digital Ethics Principle in ePortfolios: Support
- Metaphors in portfolio practice: Coleman, K.S. (2017). An a/r/tist in wonderland: Exploring identity, creativity and digital portfolios as a/r/tographer, Ph.D. dissertation, Melbourne Graduate School of Education, University of Melbourne, Australia, 2017.
- Mahara roadmap
- AAC&U's High-Impact Practices
- Ohl, F., Laube, S., Imhof, M. & Harring, M. (2022). Portfolioarbeit und Feedbackkultur gemeinsam entwickeln. In M. Krämer, J. Zumbach & I. Deibl (Eds.), Psychologiedidaktik und Evaluation XIV (pp. 337-343). Düren: Shaker.
- Laube, S., Ohl, F., Harring, M., Imhof, M. (2023). Das digitale Feedback-Portfolio. In L. Mrohs, J. Franz, D. Herrmann, K. Lindner & T. Staake (Eds.), Digitale Kulturen der Lehre entwickeln. Perspektiven der Hochschuldidaktik (pp. 301- 307). Wiesbaden: Springer VS.
Related episodes
- Shari Bowker: Establish good feedback practices in your portfolio
- The wunderkammer: Metaphors in portfolio practice
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Production information
Production: Catalyst IT
Host: Kristina Hoeppner
Artwork: Evonne Cheung
Music: The Mahara tune by Josh Woodward
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristina Hoeppner (00:04):
Welcome to 'Create. Share. Engage.' This is
the podcast about portfolios forlearning and more for educators,
learning designers, and managerskeen on integrating portfolios
with their education andprofessional development
practices. 'Create. Share.
Engage.' is brought to you bythe Mahara team at Catalyst IT.
My name is Kristina Hoeppner.
(00:28):
Today I'm speaking withProfessor Dr Margarete Imhof,
Franziska Ohl, and SebastianLaube from Johannes
Gutenberg-Universität Mainz inGermany. They work in the
Institute for Psychology, andthere specifically in the
Department of Psychology inEducation. That is the interface
between psychology and teachereducation. I met them in
(00:50):
November of last year, 2024, ata get together of universities
in the state ofRheinland-Palantine that use
Mahara and wanted to learn moreabout their portfolio project at
their university. Thank you somuch, Margarete, Franziska, and
Sebastian for sharing your workwith our community.
Franziska Ohl (01:09):
Thank you for having us.
Kristina Hoeppner (01:10):
Since there are three of you, we do need
introductions. Margarete, let'sstart with you as the longest
serving academic member of ourinterview panel today. Can you
please tell us a little bitabout yourself? What do you do?
Margarete Imhof (01:25):
By training, I am a teacher for secondary
education. I'm also trained as aschool psychologist, and I have
been working in teachereducation at several
universities since 1990, Ithink, it's been a while
[laughs]. I've gone throughseveral stages in that, and
major projects that I havepursued in different places were
(01:49):
actually portfolio projects,just because I've found that
there's so many loose ends inthe teaching profession, so many
impressions, so many bodies ofknowledge, of literature that
you have to integrate that it'shard to keep track of what
you're actually doing. It's hardto understand where are the most
important impacts on your workand on your personality. So this
(02:13):
is what led me towards thesearch for portfolio work. I
don't think I've always calledit portfolio, but now I have a
name for it, and I'm glad Ifound it.
Kristina Hoeppner (02:23):
Do you then remember when you were actually
introduced to portfolios,Margarete?
Margarete Imhof (02:29):
Actually, that was early in my school
psychology training when we werestudying the cases that we had
to treat or that we had to workwith. When we went through all
our notes, when we tried toselect the tipping points of a
case, this was a process inwhich we used all the documents,
(02:50):
in which we tried to integrateall the different perspectives,
in which we also shared ournotes and perspectives in a
team. I found this very helpfulto have all the not only the
notes, but the gadgets, thetests, sometimes even the audio
recordings, in front of us todiscuss productively what we
(03:10):
were going to do in a specificcase, how we are going to
proceed in this counselingsituation. I was quite impressed
how helpful it was to have afull range of information at
hand.
Kristina Hoeppner (03:23):
That's fantastic that you pulled
everything together and createda bit of a collaborative
portfolio then by the sounds ofit.
Margarete Imhof (03:29):
The team was three of us, three school
psychologists. We had a greatsupervisor, and he had really a
talent to monitor and tosupervise the team effort. So
that was really a very goodbeginning to understand why it's
so valuable to not only collectinformation, contrast and
(03:50):
compare information, but toshare information.
Kristina Hoeppner (03:54):
We'll come back to some of that because in
your brief bio on the universitywebsite, I also read that your
main research topics currentlyare listening and feedback in
portfolios, so we'll touch baseon that later on once we've also
heard from Franziska andSebastian of what they are doing
(04:15):
at the university and how theywere introduced to portfolios.
Thank you, Margarete. Sebastian,let's continue with you. What is
your role at the university, andhow did you get introduced to
portfolios, please?
Sebastian Laube (04:28):
I studied psychology at Johannes
Gutenberg-Universität in Mainz.
Since I enjoyed university somuch, I decided to stick around
and now work here as a researchassistant, particularly on the
feedback portfolio project.
Apart from the portfolio andeverything related to it, I'm
(04:49):
very interested in generativeartificial intelligence,
specifically AI literacy. In theproject, I focus a lot on
creating templates for studentin Mahara and have also
developed a video seriesintroducing Mahara, covering the
impact of feedback and itsimplementation. Each semester, I
(05:10):
introduce students to the use ofMahara and provide a brief
orientation, and of course, Ialso use Mahara in my own
teaching to facilitatereflection processes and
feedback. That's basically whatI do, and I absolutely love it.
Kristina Hoeppner (05:27):
Do I have that correct that since you
studied psychology at theUniversity, that pretty much
from the start of youruniversity studies, or somewhere
around about that time, you'vebeen also using a portfolio
yourself?
Sebastian Laube (05:41):
Actually, not.
I first came across portfoliothrough the job posting of the
job I'm doing right now, whichprompted me to read up on it. I
think that's a bit of a shamebecause my first thought when I
roughly understood whatportfolio is and what you can do
with it, was, why didn't I havethis opportunity as a student?
Kristina Hoeppner (06:02):
And so the three of you and some other
colleagues of yours are going tochange that for future
generations of students.
Sebastian Laube (06:10):
That's the plan.
Kristina Hoeppner (06:11):
Now, Franziska, what is your role at
the university, and how were youintroduce to portfolios?
Franziska Ohl (06:19):
I'm a research assistant in the Department of
Psychology in Education foralmost four years now, and as
well as Sebastian, working inthe feedback portfolio project,
and besides teaching, I'mcurrently writing my doctoral
thesis on teacher competenciesand their development in student
teacher competencies. I studiededucational research and
educational psychology, and Ihave always been interested in
(06:41):
higher education. However, myacademic research degree never
focused on that, but mainly onschool education. It was
actually quite the same, likeSebastian said, I was introduced
to portfolio through the jobadvertisement. I knew I had to
apply. I'm very happy to beinvolved since.
Kristina Hoeppner (07:01):
Let's look a bit deeper into that because you
are all on the feedbackportfolio project at Uni Mainz,
what is that all about? Was thatalso the first time that you've
explored portfolios with yourstudents in your department?
Franziska, why don't we startwith you?
Franziska Ohl (07:19):
The special characteristics of our project
lies in the feedback component.
It is supposed to be included inthe portfolio work. However, we
see it as a great challenge toimplement feedback cycles,
sustainability, to collect andrefer back to learning outcomes
for student teachers and to usethe feedback portfolio. So they
never used that before. We seeit now as a part of professional
(07:41):
development.
The reason why we saw Mahara asa good platform for it was as it
prioritised data security andallows users to share their
work, but in a very independentway. That's why we use Mahara
for the project, and we are veryhappy to have that as portfolio,
(08:01):
but the main component wasfeedback in first place.
Kristina Hoeppner (08:05):
Margarete, does that go back to your
research in that area, in thearea of feedback portfolios and
listening?
Margarete Imhof (08:13):
Yeah. I think one important aspect in that
whole project is also to empowerstudents to ask for feedback, to
experience the autonomy toactually ask for feedback that
seems to be or to become usefulfor them. Students or learners
usually get tons of feedback ifyou count teacher comments, if
(08:35):
you count grades, if you countwhatever certificates you can
take home. But the maindifference that we are trying to
make here is that to understandthat feedback is nothing that
comes from an authority tellingyou how well you have done, that
feedback is something that isintegral part of the learning
process, that you ask forfeedback, or that you might even
(08:56):
ask for help how to digest andwork with a feedback and also
the challenge for the teacher tolook more closely, not only at
the product that a student or alearner puts on your table, but
also to understand and commenton the process.
This is why we really want toredefine feedback in education
(09:20):
and make it a point thatfeedback is not only something
that you give after the fact,but to emphasise and to explore
how feedback can become a driverfor learning during the process
and give autonomy to thelearner. This is why we feel
that the portfolio is a verygood instrument to capture all
(09:44):
these elements that we need.
Kristina Hoeppner (09:46):
How do you then support your students in
asking for that feedback? Do yougive them some guidelines on
hand how to ask for feedback,and then also to other students
how to respond to it or toeducators how to respond to that
feedback, or how does that workfor you and your project?
Franziska Ohl (10:05):
In the first semester, they have a lecture
about feedback and how to giveand how to receive it, and
that's where there's thestarting point of becoming
involved in feedback and whatfeedback means because it's not
just giving grades, but gettinginvolved with another and talk
about your progress and whatyou're done right and where you
(10:25):
need to get more information andstuff like that. We start with
that at the very beginning oftheir studies, and then we try
to implement it during differentcourses and get on hand with
Mahala all the time again.
Kristina Hoeppner (10:40):
So you are taking a programmatic or
holistic approach of having theportfolio not just in one
course, but embedded intomultiple courses so that
students get the exposure to itthroughout their studies.
Margarete Imhof (10:54):
Yeah, totally.
Ideally, we are even trying notonly to implement portfolio
across different semesters oracross different seminars, we
also encourage students - wehaven't got there yet fully -
but the idea is to encouragestudents also to use the
portfolio documentation duringtheir internships, so that when
they come back to the universitycourses that they can draw on
(11:18):
the resources that they havecollected and reflected on
during their four or six weeksof internship so that they have
a better chance to connect theirstudies at the university and
their observations, reflections,experience, lived experience
during the internships anddifferent types of schools.
(11:42):
We find that even though we tryto create an environment in
which feedback is considered andmodeled as a productive,
constructive part of educationor study, students still need to
learn the confidence to trustthe process. Some are faster and
(12:03):
others are slower to learn thisor to develop that trust, and
some understand that how theycan interact with each other and
give each other feedback. Andsome still hold on to themselves
or prefer to ask the teacher.
Because it's a strong image, theteacher knows it, the teacher is
the one who gives the finalgrades, and the teacher's
feedback is considered relevant.
(12:26):
This is part of the process thatwe are trying to implement, and
this is no less than a change ofculture.
Franziska Ohl (12:33):
And it's just not our department what is working
on portfolio. We try to motivatedifferent lecturers to also use
portfolio in their courses. Sowe work in Educational Sciences
in three sub areas in Germany,and we try to combine them
through this project, which isnot always that easy, but we
try.
Kristina Hoeppner (12:54):
Somebody does need to make the start to make
that cultural change and tointroduce change, to show that
something can be donedifferently. So that sounds like
your project is on a goodtrajectory there, introducing
students to their portfolio workand feedback giving and also
receiving right at the start oftheir studies and then carrying
(13:17):
through that practicethroughout.
Do you can also incorporatethose feedback strategies into
your templates because Sebastianmentioned earlier that he is
primarily responsible forcreating templates and rolling
them out to the students. So I'dlike to learn more about how you
(13:41):
use the templates and how theyalso support the students in
their learning and in thefeedback giving and receiving.
Sebastian Laube (13:48):
We basically use templates to give students a
framework at first so they canorient themselves. I think it
makes starting with portfoliomuch easier if they've at least
seen what a portfolio can looklike and how different blocks
can be implemented. In my ownseminar, I use a template that
(14:10):
includes questions for selfreflection, some exercises, of
course, also exercises for peerfeedback, and even some podcasts
I've produced for each sessionso the students can prepare for
the session. We work on thesetemplates for at least 10
minutes each session. So we godeep into it. The Mahara
(14:32):
portfolio provides a pretty goodstructure for my seminar,
helping the students retaintheir key thoughts and
reflections. However, templateis not designed to work as a
fixed framework, so studentscan, of course, add or remove
elements as they see fit.
Kristina Hoeppner (14:52):
I love that part because for many years I've
been saying a template should bean invitation to start somewhere
so more like the frame of ahouse where you do have the
windows and you have the doorand you have the main structure,
but whatever goes on inside,whether you paint your walls
white or whether you put a wallin or leave it open plan, or any
(15:12):
of those things, should be up tothe person actually moving into
that building so that they canpersonalise it and really also
make it their own.
Sebastian Laube (15:23):
Yeah, that's basically the idea. I give an
idea where the door or thewindows can be, but how the
students use the portfolio isentirely up to them. The
portfolio is also not graded atthe end. They don't have to show
it to me at all. It's their ownhouse, it's their windows, it's
their garden. It's purely fortheir professional development
(15:44):
as teachers and serves also as aplatform for peer feedback,
where I don't have to beinvolved. I can be involved if
I'm asked to, but I don't haveto.
My experience, especially forstudents who are new to Mahara,
it's much easier to get startedwhen they don't have to start
(16:04):
with a blank page. In somesessions, we use it more than 10
minutes, but 10 minutes is myminimum for using Mahara in the
session, and I think it'simportant to have the continuity
to do it every session and workon the portfolio. So it's not a
(16:26):
good idea to have it usedsporadically.
Kristina Hoeppner (16:30):
Franziska and Margarete, what is your
experience? Do you also use thesame templates or similar
templates that Sebastiancreated? Or are you doing
something slightly differentwith your students?
Margarete Imhof (16:42):
I'm definitely using templates. I can say that
Sebastian's templates aredefinitely much more
sophisticated. Mine are morerough [Margarete and Kristina
laugh]. Mine are more rough.
It's more like give them foodfor thought, give them an idea
of what could be an interestingquestion. Just today, one of the
questions I asked them, write aletter to one of your teachers
(17:05):
and say thank you for yourfeedback way back when they were
in secondary education. This isa very rough template. The
template is basically write aletter, and this is what the
student did and asked me tocomment on his letter to his
teacher in the past, and thisopens with a very rough frame.
This opens a conversation. Thisopens communication between
(17:28):
myself and that student, thatstimulates self reflection, and
that helps him understand wherehe wants to go with his own
teacher personality once he isbasically a step further in his
professional life. It'sdifferent types of templates,
but I know that a blank page canscare people. So at least a
(17:49):
minimum of what I would call atemplate has proved to be
useful.
Franziska Ohl (17:56):
Franziska, do you also use templates?
I actually don't work in theteacher training. So I don't
work with student teachers, butI prepare templates for other
lecturers who are interested butdon't have time to familiarise
themselves with the platform.
However, I don't have deepinsight into the feedback loops.
Kristina Hoeppner (18:15):
The templates that you create for other
lecturers, what are therequirements?
Franziska Ohl (18:20):
Normally, they just want to have a structure
for the course. They give mesome sort of input of
information that has to go intothe template, and then I am very
free in the design. There'sactually not really strong
limitations I have in thetemplates. Then we talk about
(18:41):
how they feel with it, if theyare happy with the design, and
everybody can change up theirtemplates if they want to. So
that's very nice.
Kristina Hoeppner (18:50):
And the templates can I then imagine
that you do include the taskdescription so that the task and
everything that the studentsneed to do is within the
portfolio, rather than needingto go back and switch back to
the LMS all the time, and thenyou put placeholders onto the
pages so that students know heresome sort of information is
(19:13):
required, but it's entirely upto them, whether they write
text, upload a file, or createan audio or video file. How does
that work for you? Sebastian,since you are the...
Margarete Imhof (19:26):
... master of templates...
Kristina Hoeppner (19:28):
... what's your experience?
Sebastian Laube (19:30):
What you described is actually what my
templates look like. I useplaceholders, I use the task bar
and a lot of other things. Ipartly put things, which are
normally in learning managementsystems, like podcasts that I
use, I also implement them inthe portfolio, in the template,
(19:51):
so the students have for eachsession a good framework so they
don't have to go somewhere elseand have many places to go. They
can just go on Mahara, watch thepodcast, write down their
reflections, and go from there.
Franziska Ohl (20:09):
I feel like it depends on what course the
portfolio is used for because ifthere is a submission at the end
of the course, it slightly looksdifferent.
Sebastian Laube (20:19):
What I think is the best thing why we use
templates, is that to meet thespecific requirements of course
and to provide a fittingframework. Franziska's courses
are different to mine, so youcan change that in the template
and make it fit.
Kristina Hoeppner (20:37):
Yeah and that also shows how you are flexibly
using the portfolio because youhave what we often call a
learning portfolio ordevelopmental portfolio, which
nobody besides the studentreally needs to see or should be
seeing or only the studentsinvite others in to receive that
feedback. And then, when itcomes to the assessment part of
their learning, they transformthat into something else. But it
(21:00):
is not necessarily that initialportfolio that the students keep
for themselves.
Margarete Imhof (21:05):
Yeah, totally, you were trying to pull apart
the different goals thatteachers might have with
portfolio. And I think the keyelement, if you are using
portfolio as a teacher, you havea clear idea of where you want
to go, and you have to have fulltransparency for the students so
that they understand whatexactly this is supposed to be
(21:26):
good for. Portfolio is so manydifferent things to different
people. You really have to makeclear what's the function of the
portfolio and the portfolioprocess in my course. Then you
have a better chance thatstudents will buy this and will
get involved in the process.
Kristina Hoeppner (21:44):
Which leads us nicely into the next question
that I wanted to ask you (21:47):
What do your students think about the
portfolio?
Sebastian Laube (21:52):
As part of the project we've held several
retreats with students to askthem about their acceptance and
the added value of the use ofMahara. Overall, most students
are interested and think it's acool thing they haven't seen
before and so on. However, theyprefer to see Mahara used
(22:12):
consistently across courses andnot just sporadically. So it
should not feel like additionalwork. This is actually a thing
where we are still working on toconvince instructors, train them
in Mahara, secure a commitmentfrom university leadership.
What I found very interesting isthat when you ask students from
(22:36):
higher semesters or alreadygraduated teachers about Mahara,
they often say they wish they'dhad the portfolio in hindsight.
Fresh students are generallyinterested, but much more
skeptical.
Franziska Ohl (22:51):
Our students are eager to use it during the
courses, but often forget aboutit when they go home or if it's
not implemented in the course.
And I feel like that's becausewe do have parallel structures
in learning systems and thatconfuses the students. So we
know that portfolio work, how wedo it, is not for everybody, but
we see it as a help forstructure and structure giving.
(23:15):
The ones who are eager to getinvolved, get feedback, want to
be in contact with each other,and we want to give these
students the space to work withfeedback and to work with the
portfolio. Margarete, maybe youwant to share some anecdote.
Margarete Imhof (23:35):
Thank you, Franziska, for reminding me that
only yesterday I met a studentwho is now teaching at a local
high school, and she was beamingall over the face, and she said
she was so happy to meet me bychance because she wanted to
share the story of her portfoliowork in school, how grateful she
was that she was introduced inmy course to the portfolio
(23:57):
because she's now teachingEnglish and geography. She says
it's so helpful to communicatewith students. It's so helpful
to communicate also withparents, to demonstrate what has
been learned, how the studentswent about to do their
assignments, where their strongpoints are and where there's
(24:17):
room for improvement. She saidit's so good. We don't need to
argue, we don't need to go backand forth. We have everything
here, and we are in this ongoingconversation about what are we
learning, how are we learning,and how can we support each
other to learn?
Kristina Hoeppner (24:32):
I think that also shows nicely that
oftentimes the portfolio work,the things the students had gone
through, they only realize it inhindsight that it has actually
been helpful. In my opinion,it's really good what Sebastian
said he did in his classes thatit's kind of forming a bit of a
habit for the students byworking on the portfolio
consistently every week, notnecessarily for it to be handed
(24:55):
in or for somebody else to seeor for the lecturer to see, but
really for the students to getinto the habit of reflecting on
a regular basis with thetargeted questions that are in
the template so that it's notjust a recounting, a summarising
of their experiences, but reallydigging deeper into what did I
learn and what do I want to donext.
Margarete Imhof (25:17):
Yeah, the challenge for us teachers is to
help students realise thebenefits of that work. First of
all, they probably don't evenhave the goal to dig deeper.
Their goal may just be to passthat course. But the idea is,
what can we do to show them thebenefits of taking this extra
step, of thinking a bit longer,a bit more deeply? It's also a
(25:41):
learning journey for us teacherswhen we introduce portfolio in
our courses.
Kristina Hoeppner (25:46):
Have you tried a few strategies on making
those benefits more transparentor more understood by the
students? Do you have somethings that have worked for you?
Margarete Imhof (25:57):
First of all, I think it's important to realise
portfolio is not a panacea. It'snot a one size fits all thing.
I've had some instances whenstudents ask me for feedback on
their assignments. Then I gavethem my feedback, I gave them
some ideas of how to improve onwhat they have had turned in
previously, and some understandthe idea. Some continue to work
(26:21):
and edit and revise theirproducts. And these are rare
cases, but these are the caseswhere I have a strong feeling
that I've had an impact, that wehad a real conversation and not
just a teacher studentconversation. So encouraging
students to react to thefeedback and showing the
willingness that you're not donebecause you have shared your
(26:44):
comments, but showing yourwillingness to look at the same
thing once again. It's, ofcourse, a matter of time, but
since, out of a large lectureclass of 300 maybe 10 catch on,
it's doable. It would be veryhard if all 300 in an
introduction to psych(ology)class would engage in that
cycle. That would be impossible.
So you have to take one by one,step by step, day by day,
(27:07):
student by student, and hopethat the impact multiplies.
Kristina Hoeppner (27:13):
Which is then, I guess, also the
challenge for the universitieswith 300 students, you can't
just do that with two teachingassistants or research
assistants and supporting that,but there need to be different
structures, like peer feedback.
But then there also goes back towhat you had said earlier, that
students don't necessarily trustthe peers. They do want that
(27:33):
feedback from an authorityperson rather than from somebody
else. So we are coming back tothat culture change that needs
to be implemented.
And so what do you think, if youcould write a wish list, would
help to make portfolios usedmore widely at the university,
also in other departments or foryou to have the support to get
(27:57):
all 300 students really usingportfolios, and even if you're
just looking at that intro topsychology course, and really
support them in a way,especially if at least half of
them get the benefits ofportfolios?
Sebastian Laube (28:12):
I think we need more instructors to take the
time to adopt and use Maharamore extensively. Additionally,
we need stronger commitment fromuniversity leadership to make
Mahara a central tool instudies, rather than an isolated
initiative. Similar to learningmanagement systems like Moodle,
(28:32):
we need the commitment that weuse Maha in our courses and that
portfolio work is a good thing.
Kristina Hoeppner (28:39):
Yeah, that is the commitment from management,
from administration. Anythingelse that you would like to
maybe say to your universityadministration or encourage
other community members to talkwith their administration about?
Margarete Imhof (28:54):
I would put on the wish list that the
administration should probablynot so much focus on
assignments, on tests, ongrades, so that we have more
space, more time to actuallyengage in conversation with the
students. That we can reallyhave these conversations, that
we can say, 'Okay, all thecontent is available through
(29:14):
recordings, through textbooks,through learning management
systems. It's all out there.'But what really counts is the
interaction, the communicationabout the content, the
discussion about the content.
A good university teacher is nota knowledgeable person who kind
of talks as if he was reading asophisticated, learned book. A
(29:37):
good university teacher issomeone who can take the time
and have [laughs] have thepatience to work out where the
students - where they want togo, how they are working to
pursue their goals, and supporttheir learning. This is a
different role model of ateacher. So I wish that the
administration would besupportive of teachers who are
(30:00):
trying to develop this new orslightly different habit of
teaching and culture ofteaching.
Kristina Hoeppner (30:08):
Since we've been talking about the teacher
not being the sage on the stageany more, but more the guide on
the side or the gardener or anyof the other metaphors for a
while, I think we'll still bechipping away on that for a
while, but every little bit, Ithink, counts, and have projects
like yours that show a differentway, that also show that it can
(30:30):
work and how it benefits thestudents and also the lecturers,
and making sure that they knowthat their students are learning
and that they can transfer theirskills into other areas then.
Is there anything that you'dlike to be able to do with
portfolios, either practice wiseor tool wise, that you currently
(30:52):
can't? Franziska, does anythingcome to mind there?
Franziska Ohl (30:55):
We would like to see more targeted feedback with
feedback loops that are, on theone hand, more accessible and on
the other hand better accepted,both in teacher learning
relationships and in peerfeedback. And it's more about
getting people actually talkingwith each other, not about the
content, but about the differentlearning paths students are
(31:19):
making.
Kristina Hoeppner (31:20):
So it is conversation and not being
afraid to ask for that feedbackand having good strategies of
giving good feedback.
Franziska Ohl (31:29):
And also talk about it. It's not about just
receiving it, but to implementit, and what do I want to do
with that? Is it something Iwant to keep or is it something
that the other person'sperspective is not interesting
for me. I feel like it's thetalking about the feedback. What
is it actually about? We talk alot about content, but not about
(31:50):
how did you get there? How doyou want to go further? And what
are your plans anyway, inbecoming a teacher? What is your
personality? Who do you want tobecome? The possibility we have
with feedback is to start aculture of failure, to talk
about what was not working, tokeep on working and learning,
(32:11):
and start to talk about, or moreabout what is not working to
become better in what we'redoing.
It's not just the work forstudents, but also for us as
lecturers to think about whatare we doing already very good,
but where do we have to improve?
We don't get that when we justsit there and look at our desks.
We have to get into contact withstudents and talk about what we
(32:33):
are doing.
Kristina Hoeppner (32:37):
That's very important that we also accepting
that for ourselves. Sebastian,is there anything from your side
that you would love to be ableto do but can't just yet?
Sebastian Laube (32:47):
For giving targeted feedback and also for
seeking feedback, it would behelpful if you could tag other
users on Mahara. So in comments,like most social media platforms
have so that students knowthey've been addressed and
received notification. Thatwould be a cool thing.
(33:08):
Besides that, I really like theMahara Mobile app. I sometimes
use it for my own work. When Ilook at my students in the
courses, fewer and fewer of themuse laptops, and they often try
to do everything on theirphones. So perhaps there is room
to explore future possibilitieshere so that you can edit your
(33:31):
portfolio from a mobile phone.
That would be cool. But overall,I'm very satisfied with Mahara.
You can do a lot with it. Itdoes require some effort to get
started, but if you're done withthe onboarding, it can be real
fun.
Kristina Hoeppner (33:45):
It's almost like we read your mind when we
put our roadmap together becausethe tagging feature is on that
one. That was also on the mindfor some other organisations, so
you're right on track there. Inregards to the Mahara Mobile
app, we are also thinking aboutwhat changes we can make to it.
In general, portfolios can beedited on mobile devices, just
(34:08):
not through the app. So the appis really more of an add-on so
that you can more easily recordvideo or audio offline when you
might not have a good internetconnection, but if you are
online, portfolios candefinitely be edited also on
smaller mobile devices so thatcontent can be created also on
the fly.
(34:28):
Margarete, is there anything onyour mind for things in your
portfolio practice that you'veseen over the years where you
think this would be wonderful tohave and to be able to do?
Margarete Imhof (34:40):
Basically, the icing on the cake would be to be
able to see what kind ofpresentation portfolios students
would produce to presentthemselves as new teachers, for
example, in a school, toparents, to students. I would
love to know a bit more (34:55):
What's the essence of their studies?
What are they taking away fromhere? We are always in the dark.
We get a few spotlights here andthere, but we are always in the
dark, basically. What do theyremember? How do they integrate
and combine the bodies ofknowledge? Or do they leave
university after graduation andsay, 'Well, thank God, this is
(35:17):
behind me, and now up to newhorizons and my own thinking and
own plans.' I'd love to see howthey use what they got here,
what they took out of theuniversity course into their
professional development.
Sometimes I would wish I couldopen that door a bit and see
what happens.
Kristina Hoeppner (35:35):
I guess we need a new project for you at
the university to look at thatshowcase portfolio in the last
year of the studies of thestudents, in order to create
that, provide them with support,and what that could look like,
and then maybe even make itpublic, or at least semi public,
so that you can get thatinsight.
Margarete Imhof (35:55):
That would be a great format that we could
introduce. But this alsodefinitely would need a change
of culture without fear of beingjudged, show what you've done,
what you've achieved, where youwant to go, how you could
condense things?
Kristina Hoeppner (36:10):
Yeah, and that could also be a really nice
culmination of all the work thatyou're doing in the area of the
developmental learningportfolio, the giving and
receiving of feedback, thebuilding of trust, that the
students know they are notjudged for what they are
writing, but that they reallyhave that community of fellow
learners and educators who aresupporting them in their studies
(36:32):
and in their furtherprofessional development and
also personal development.
Before we get to our quickanswer round, is there anything
else that we haven't reallytalked about that you do want to
let our listeners know?
Margarete Imhof (36:47):
The only issue, but this is not very specific to
portfolio, but the one issuethat I would like to raise here
is that we need to be careful tonot look at portfolio as an
instrument or a technique oreven of technology. It always
has to do with people. It has todo with teacher competences. It
has to do with teachers who areable to build this relationship,
(37:10):
to create this space for trust,and not only to focus on the
content, but also on the sharedexcitement, on the shared
frustration, on the shared joyto make progress. Make sure that
you don't forget the humanfactor.
Kristina Hoeppner (37:25):
That's why I really like the term that is
being used in the States quitefrequently for portfolios, also
being a High-Impact Practice, sothat it doesn't just focus on
the tool or on the pedagogy sideof things, but really combines
it. It's a practice we need tolook at it more holistically
because that definitely helps usget away from just looking at
(37:48):
the technology side of things.
Now for our quick answer roundand here, I'd very much like for
all three of you to answer thesequick questions that we can
widen our corpus of what peoplethink about portfolios and also
what tips we have because Ithink they are really, really
important to share. Firstquestion, and we'll start with
(38:09):
Margarete, is, which words orshort phrases do you use to
describe portfolio work?
Margarete Imhof (38:17):
I will come back to the three R's. Stimulate
reflection, build relationships,and round up a team to support
you.
Kristina Hoeppner (38:25):
Wonderful.
Thank you. Franziska, what areyour three words or short
phrases?
Franziska Ohl (38:30):
For me, portfolio work is a collaborative and
creative way to impact learningenvironments of students.
Kristina Hoeppner (38:37):
Awesome.
Sebastian?
Sebastian Laube (38:39):
Portfolio work for me is a stony trail, but
with sweet roots at the end.
Kristina Hoeppner (38:47):
Oh my gosh.
Love a good metaphor here andmaking that visible. Thank you.
Franziska, what tip do you havefor learning designers or
instructors who create portfolioactivities?
Franziska Ohl (39:00):
My tip is to break down the steps, to guide
learners through theenvironment, and integrate
feedback opportunities and peerfeedback, please.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:12):
That is very clear. Thank you. Sebastian,
what's your tip?
Sebastian Laube (39:15):
Keep it simple.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:17):
Margarete?
Margarete Imhof (39:18):
My tip would be, don't impose a portfolio on
learners. Have this conversationwith the learners. Listen to the
learners to understand whatexactly the design of the
portfolio needs to be for thisparticular group. Don't try to
know it all before you havetalked to them.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:35):
Thank you.
And that leads nicely into ourlast question for today, which
is, what advice do you have forportfolio authors or students?
Sebastian, why don't you startus off?
Sebastian Laube (39:47):
Keep it going.
It's worth it.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:50):
Margarete?
Margarete Imhof (39:51):
Don't be afraid of errors. Don't be discouraged.
Just take your time to find thebest way to implement portfolio
in to your practice.
Kristina Hoeppner (40:01):
Wonderful.
Thank you, and Franziska for ourthird tip for our portfolio
authors.
Franziska Ohl (40:07):
My advice is that the goal is not to present your
skills, but to emphasise how yousolve problems or how your
progress is going on. Includeyour reflections and make it
visually engaging to keep going.
Kristina Hoeppner (40:21):
Thank you so much for that final tip and for
all the insight the three of youhave given today. I think your
work in your project at theuniversity in Mainz does show
another side of the portfoliobecause oftentimes we do talk
about a presentation portfolioand a showcase portfolio, using
it for employability, but whatyou've demonstrated really
(40:43):
nicely is that portfolio forlearning that students don't
necessarily have to share withsomebody, and also for
incorporating those feedbacktechniques to make them more
confident learners to engage inconversations, so that it is not
just the portfolio that was puttogether, almost like an
activity where you get a gradeor something like that, and then
(41:06):
don't look at it any more, butreally revisit what had been
learned in the past, engage withothers in order to have that
social learning and worktogether. So thank you so much
to the three of you, Margarete,Franziska, and Sebastian,
Margarete Imhof (41:19):
Thank you for having us.
Kristina Hoeppner (41:22):
Now over to our listeners, what do you want
to try in your own portfoliopractice? This was 'Create.
Share. Engage.' with ProfessorDr Margarete Imhof, Franziska
Ohl, and Sebastian Laube. Headto our website,
podcast.mahara.org, where youcan find resources and the
transcript for this episode.
This podcast is produced byCatalyst IT, and I'm your host,
(41:44):
Kristina Hoeppner, Project Leadand Product Manager of the
portfolio platform Mahara. Ournext episode will air in two
weeks. I hope you will listenagain and tell a colleague about
our podcast so they cansubscribe. Until then create,
share, and engage.
Welcome to 'Create. Share. Engage.' This is
the podcast about portfolios forlearning and more for educators,
learning designers, and managerskeen on integrating portfolios
with their education andprofessional development
practices. 'Create. Share.
Engage.' is brought to you bythe Mahara team at Catalyst IT.
My name is Kristina Hoeppner.
(00:28):
Today I'm speaking withProfessor Dr Margarete Imhof,
Franziska Ohl, and SebastianLaube from Johannes
Gutenberg-Universität Mainz inGermany. They work in the
Institute for Psychology, andthere specifically in the
Department of Psychology inEducation. That is the interface
between psychology and teachereducation. I met them in
(00:50):
November of last year, 2024, ata get together of universities
in the state ofRheinland-Palantine that use
Mahara and wanted to learn moreabout their portfolio project at
their university. Thank you somuch, Margarete, Franziska, and
Sebastian for sharing your workwith our community.
Franziska Ohl (01:09):
Thank you for having us.
Kristina Hoeppner (01:10):
Since there are three of you, we do need
introductions. Margarete, let'sstart with you as the longest
serving academic member of ourinterview panel today. Can you
please tell us a little bitabout yourself? What do you do?
Margarete Imhof (01:25):
By training, I am a teacher for secondary
education. I'm also trained as aschool psychologist, and I have
been working in teachereducation at several
universities since 1990, Ithink, it's been a while
[laughs]. I've gone throughseveral stages in that, and
major projects that I havepursued in different places were
(01:49):
actually portfolio projects,just because I've found that
there's so many loose ends inthe teaching profession, so many
impressions, so many bodies ofknowledge, of literature that
you have to integrate that it'shard to keep track of what
you're actually doing. It's hardto understand where are the most
important impacts on your workand on your personality. So this
(02:13):
is what led me towards thesearch for portfolio work. I
don't think I've always calledit portfolio, but now I have a
name for it, and I'm glad Ifound it.
Kristina Hoeppner (02:23):
Do you then remember when you were actually
introduced to portfolios,Margarete?
Margarete Imhof (02:29):
Actually, that was early in my school
psychology training when we werestudying the cases that we had
to treat or that we had to workwith. When we went through all
our notes, when we tried toselect the tipping points of a
case, this was a process inwhich we used all the documents,
(02:50):
in which we tried to integrateall the different perspectives,
in which we also shared ournotes and perspectives in a
team. I found this very helpfulto have all the not only the
notes, but the gadgets, thetests, sometimes even the audio
recordings, in front of us todiscuss productively what we
(03:10):
were going to do in a specificcase, how we are going to
proceed in this counselingsituation. I was quite impressed
how helpful it was to have afull range of information at
hand.
Kristina Hoeppner (03:23):
That's fantastic that you pulled
everything together and createda bit of a collaborative
portfolio then by the sounds ofit.
Margarete Imhof (03:29):
The team was three of us, three school
psychologists. We had a greatsupervisor, and he had really a
talent to monitor and tosupervise the team effort. So
that was really a very goodbeginning to understand why it's
so valuable to not only collectinformation, contrast and
(03:50):
compare information, but toshare information.
Kristina Hoeppner (03:54):
We'll come back to some of that because in
your brief bio on the universitywebsite, I also read that your
main research topics currentlyare listening and feedback in
portfolios, so we'll touch baseon that later on once we've also
heard from Franziska andSebastian of what they are doing
(04:15):
at the university and how theywere introduced to portfolios.
Thank you, Margarete. Sebastian,let's continue with you. What is
your role at the university, andhow did you get introduced to
portfolios, please?
Sebastian Laube (04:28):
I studied psychology at Johannes
Gutenberg-Universität in Mainz.
Since I enjoyed university somuch, I decided to stick around
and now work here as a researchassistant, particularly on the
feedback portfolio project.
Apart from the portfolio andeverything related to it, I'm
(04:49):
very interested in generativeartificial intelligence,
specifically AI literacy. In theproject, I focus a lot on
creating templates for studentin Mahara and have also
developed a video seriesintroducing Mahara, covering the
impact of feedback and itsimplementation. Each semester, I
(05:10):
introduce students to the use ofMahara and provide a brief
orientation, and of course, Ialso use Mahara in my own
teaching to facilitatereflection processes and
feedback. That's basically whatI do, and I absolutely love it.
Kristina Hoeppner (05:27):
Do I have that correct that since you
studied psychology at theUniversity, that pretty much
from the start of youruniversity studies, or somewhere
around about that time, you'vebeen also using a portfolio
yourself?
Sebastian Laube (05:41):
Actually, not.
I first came across portfoliothrough the job posting of the
job I'm doing right now, whichprompted me to read up on it. I
think that's a bit of a shamebecause my first thought when I
roughly understood whatportfolio is and what you can do
with it, was, why didn't I havethis opportunity as a student?
Kristina Hoeppner (06:02):
And so the three of you and some other
colleagues of yours are going tochange that for future
generations of students.
Sebastian Laube (06:10):
That's the plan.
Kristina Hoeppner (06:11):
Now, Franziska, what is your role at
the university, and how were youintroduce to portfolios?
Franziska Ohl (06:19):
I'm a research assistant in the Department of
Psychology in Education foralmost four years now, and as
well as Sebastian, working inthe feedback portfolio project,
and besides teaching, I'mcurrently writing my doctoral
thesis on teacher competenciesand their development in student
teacher competencies. I studiededucational research and
educational psychology, and Ihave always been interested in
(06:41):
higher education. However, myacademic research degree never
focused on that, but mainly onschool education. It was
actually quite the same, likeSebastian said, I was introduced
to portfolio through the jobadvertisement. I knew I had to
apply. I'm very happy to beinvolved since.
Kristina Hoeppner (07:01):
Let's look a bit deeper into that because you
are all on the feedbackportfolio project at Uni Mainz,
what is that all about? Was thatalso the first time that you've
explored portfolios with yourstudents in your department?
Franziska, why don't we startwith you?
Franziska Ohl (07:19):
The special characteristics of our project
lies in the feedback component.
It is supposed to be included inthe portfolio work. However, we
see it as a great challenge toimplement feedback cycles,
sustainability, to collect andrefer back to learning outcomes
for student teachers and to usethe feedback portfolio. So they
never used that before. We seeit now as a part of professional
(07:41):
development.
The reason why we saw Mahara asa good platform for it was as it
prioritised data security andallows users to share their
work, but in a very independentway. That's why we use Mahara
for the project, and we are veryhappy to have that as portfolio,
(08:01):
but the main component wasfeedback in first place.
Kristina Hoeppner (08:05):
Margarete, does that go back to your
research in that area, in thearea of feedback portfolios and
listening?
Margarete Imhof (08:13):
Yeah. I think one important aspect in that
whole project is also to empowerstudents to ask for feedback, to
experience the autonomy toactually ask for feedback that
seems to be or to become usefulfor them. Students or learners
usually get tons of feedback ifyou count teacher comments, if
(08:35):
you count grades, if you countwhatever certificates you can
take home. But the maindifference that we are trying to
make here is that to understandthat feedback is nothing that
comes from an authority tellingyou how well you have done, that
feedback is something that isintegral part of the learning
process, that you ask forfeedback, or that you might even
(08:56):
ask for help how to digest andwork with a feedback and also
the challenge for the teacher tolook more closely, not only at
the product that a student or alearner puts on your table, but
also to understand and commenton the process.
This is why we really want toredefine feedback in education
(09:20):
and make it a point thatfeedback is not only something
that you give after the fact,but to emphasise and to explore
how feedback can become a driverfor learning during the process
and give autonomy to thelearner. This is why we feel
that the portfolio is a verygood instrument to capture all
(09:44):
these elements that we need.
Kristina Hoeppner (09:46):
How do you then support your students in
asking for that feedback? Do yougive them some guidelines on
hand how to ask for feedback,and then also to other students
how to respond to it or toeducators how to respond to that
feedback, or how does that workfor you and your project?
Franziska Ohl (10:05):
In the first semester, they have a lecture
about feedback and how to giveand how to receive it, and
that's where there's thestarting point of becoming
involved in feedback and whatfeedback means because it's not
just giving grades, but gettinginvolved with another and talk
about your progress and whatyou're done right and where you
(10:25):
need to get more information andstuff like that. We start with
that at the very beginning oftheir studies, and then we try
to implement it during differentcourses and get on hand with
Mahala all the time again.
Kristina Hoeppner (10:40):
So you are taking a programmatic or
holistic approach of having theportfolio not just in one
course, but embedded intomultiple courses so that
students get the exposure to itthroughout their studies.
Margarete Imhof (10:54):
Yeah, totally.
Ideally, we are even trying notonly to implement portfolio
across different semesters oracross different seminars, we
also encourage students - wehaven't got there yet fully -
but the idea is to encouragestudents also to use the
portfolio documentation duringtheir internships, so that when
they come back to the universitycourses that they can draw on
(11:18):
the resources that they havecollected and reflected on
during their four or six weeksof internship so that they have
a better chance to connect theirstudies at the university and
their observations, reflections,experience, lived experience
during the internships anddifferent types of schools.
(11:42):
We find that even though we tryto create an environment in
which feedback is considered andmodeled as a productive,
constructive part of educationor study, students still need to
learn the confidence to trustthe process. Some are faster and
(12:03):
others are slower to learn thisor to develop that trust, and
some understand that how theycan interact with each other and
give each other feedback. Andsome still hold on to themselves
or prefer to ask the teacher.
Because it's a strong image, theteacher knows it, the teacher is
the one who gives the finalgrades, and the teacher's
feedback is considered relevant.
(12:26):
This is part of the process thatwe are trying to implement, and
this is no less than a change ofculture.
Franziska Ohl (12:33):
And it's just not our department what is working
on portfolio. We try to motivatedifferent lecturers to also use
portfolio in their courses. Sowe work in Educational Sciences
in three sub areas in Germany,and we try to combine them
through this project, which isnot always that easy, but we
try.
Kristina Hoeppner (12:54):
Somebody does need to make the start to make
that cultural change and tointroduce change, to show that
something can be donedifferently. So that sounds like
your project is on a goodtrajectory there, introducing
students to their portfolio workand feedback giving and also
receiving right at the start oftheir studies and then carrying
(13:17):
through that practicethroughout.
Do you can also incorporatethose feedback strategies into
your templates because Sebastianmentioned earlier that he is
primarily responsible forcreating templates and rolling
them out to the students. So I'dlike to learn more about how you
(13:41):
use the templates and how theyalso support the students in
their learning and in thefeedback giving and receiving.
Sebastian Laube (13:48):
We basically use templates to give students a
framework at first so they canorient themselves. I think it
makes starting with portfoliomuch easier if they've at least
seen what a portfolio can looklike and how different blocks
can be implemented. In my ownseminar, I use a template that
(14:10):
includes questions for selfreflection, some exercises, of
course, also exercises for peerfeedback, and even some podcasts
I've produced for each sessionso the students can prepare for
the session. We work on thesetemplates for at least 10
minutes each session. So we godeep into it. The Mahara
(14:32):
portfolio provides a pretty goodstructure for my seminar,
helping the students retaintheir key thoughts and
reflections. However, templateis not designed to work as a
fixed framework, so studentscan, of course, add or remove
elements as they see fit.
Kristina Hoeppner (14:52):
I love that part because for many years I've
been saying a template should bean invitation to start somewhere
so more like the frame of ahouse where you do have the
windows and you have the doorand you have the main structure,
but whatever goes on inside,whether you paint your walls
white or whether you put a wallin or leave it open plan, or any
(15:12):
of those things, should be up tothe person actually moving into
that building so that they canpersonalise it and really also
make it their own.
Sebastian Laube (15:23):
Yeah, that's basically the idea. I give an
idea where the door or thewindows can be, but how the
students use the portfolio isentirely up to them. The
portfolio is also not graded atthe end. They don't have to show
it to me at all. It's their ownhouse, it's their windows, it's
their garden. It's purely fortheir professional development
(15:44):
as teachers and serves also as aplatform for peer feedback,
where I don't have to beinvolved. I can be involved if
I'm asked to, but I don't haveto.
My experience, especially forstudents who are new to Mahara,
it's much easier to get startedwhen they don't have to start
(16:04):
with a blank page. In somesessions, we use it more than 10
minutes, but 10 minutes is myminimum for using Mahara in the
session, and I think it'simportant to have the continuity
to do it every session and workon the portfolio. So it's not a
(16:26):
good idea to have it usedsporadically.
Kristina Hoeppner (16:30):
Franziska and Margarete, what is your
experience? Do you also use thesame templates or similar
templates that Sebastiancreated? Or are you doing
something slightly differentwith your students?
Margarete Imhof (16:42):
I'm definitely using templates. I can say that
Sebastian's templates aredefinitely much more
sophisticated. Mine are morerough [Margarete and Kristina
laugh]. Mine are more rough.
It's more like give them foodfor thought, give them an idea
of what could be an interestingquestion. Just today, one of the
questions I asked them, write aletter to one of your teachers
(17:05):
and say thank you for yourfeedback way back when they were
in secondary education. This isa very rough template. The
template is basically write aletter, and this is what the
student did and asked me tocomment on his letter to his
teacher in the past, and thisopens with a very rough frame.
This opens a conversation. Thisopens communication between
(17:28):
myself and that student, thatstimulates self reflection, and
that helps him understand wherehe wants to go with his own
teacher personality once he isbasically a step further in his
professional life. It'sdifferent types of templates,
but I know that a blank page canscare people. So at least a
(17:49):
minimum of what I would call atemplate has proved to be
useful.
Franziska Ohl (17:56):
Franziska, do you also use templates?
I actually don't work in theteacher training. So I don't
work with student teachers, butI prepare templates for other
lecturers who are interested butdon't have time to familiarise
themselves with the platform.
However, I don't have deepinsight into the feedback loops.
Kristina Hoeppner (18:15):
The templates that you create for other
lecturers, what are therequirements?
Franziska Ohl (18:20):
Normally, they just want to have a structure
for the course. They give mesome sort of input of
information that has to go intothe template, and then I am very
free in the design. There'sactually not really strong
limitations I have in thetemplates. Then we talk about
(18:41):
how they feel with it, if theyare happy with the design, and
everybody can change up theirtemplates if they want to. So
that's very nice.
Kristina Hoeppner (18:50):
And the templates can I then imagine
that you do include the taskdescription so that the task and
everything that the studentsneed to do is within the
portfolio, rather than needingto go back and switch back to
the LMS all the time, and thenyou put placeholders onto the
pages so that students know heresome sort of information is
(19:13):
required, but it's entirely upto them, whether they write
text, upload a file, or createan audio or video file. How does
that work for you? Sebastian,since you are the...
Margarete Imhof (19:26):
... master of templates...
Kristina Hoeppner (19:28):
... what's your experience?
Sebastian Laube (19:30):
What you described is actually what my
templates look like. I useplaceholders, I use the task bar
and a lot of other things. Ipartly put things, which are
normally in learning managementsystems, like podcasts that I
use, I also implement them inthe portfolio, in the template,
(19:51):
so the students have for eachsession a good framework so they
don't have to go somewhere elseand have many places to go. They
can just go on Mahara, watch thepodcast, write down their
reflections, and go from there.
Franziska Ohl (20:09):
I feel like it depends on what course the
portfolio is used for because ifthere is a submission at the end
of the course, it slightly looksdifferent.
Sebastian Laube (20:19):
What I think is the best thing why we use
templates, is that to meet thespecific requirements of course
and to provide a fittingframework. Franziska's courses
are different to mine, so youcan change that in the template
and make it fit.
Kristina Hoeppner (20:37):
Yeah and that also shows how you are flexibly
using the portfolio because youhave what we often call a
learning portfolio ordevelopmental portfolio, which
nobody besides the studentreally needs to see or should be
seeing or only the studentsinvite others in to receive that
feedback. And then, when itcomes to the assessment part of
their learning, they transformthat into something else. But it
(21:00):
is not necessarily that initialportfolio that the students keep
for themselves.
Margarete Imhof (21:05):
Yeah, totally, you were trying to pull apart
the different goals thatteachers might have with
portfolio. And I think the keyelement, if you are using
portfolio as a teacher, you havea clear idea of where you want
to go, and you have to have fulltransparency for the students so
that they understand whatexactly this is supposed to be
(21:26):
good for. Portfolio is so manydifferent things to different
people. You really have to makeclear what's the function of the
portfolio and the portfolioprocess in my course. Then you
have a better chance thatstudents will buy this and will
get involved in the process.
Kristina Hoeppner (21:44):
Which leads us nicely into the next question
that I wanted to ask you (21:47):
What do your students think about the
portfolio?
Sebastian Laube (21:52):
As part of the project we've held several
retreats with students to askthem about their acceptance and
the added value of the use ofMahara. Overall, most students
are interested and think it's acool thing they haven't seen
before and so on. However, theyprefer to see Mahara used
(22:12):
consistently across courses andnot just sporadically. So it
should not feel like additionalwork. This is actually a thing
where we are still working on toconvince instructors, train them
in Mahara, secure a commitmentfrom university leadership.
What I found very interesting isthat when you ask students from
(22:36):
higher semesters or alreadygraduated teachers about Mahara,
they often say they wish they'dhad the portfolio in hindsight.
Fresh students are generallyinterested, but much more
skeptical.
Franziska Ohl (22:51):
Our students are eager to use it during the
courses, but often forget aboutit when they go home or if it's
not implemented in the course.
And I feel like that's becausewe do have parallel structures
in learning systems and thatconfuses the students. So we
know that portfolio work, how wedo it, is not for everybody, but
we see it as a help forstructure and structure giving.
(23:15):
The ones who are eager to getinvolved, get feedback, want to
be in contact with each other,and we want to give these
students the space to work withfeedback and to work with the
portfolio. Margarete, maybe youwant to share some anecdote.
Margarete Imhof (23:35):
Thank you, Franziska, for reminding me that
only yesterday I met a studentwho is now teaching at a local
high school, and she was beamingall over the face, and she said
she was so happy to meet me bychance because she wanted to
share the story of her portfoliowork in school, how grateful she
was that she was introduced inmy course to the portfolio
(23:57):
because she's now teachingEnglish and geography. She says
it's so helpful to communicatewith students. It's so helpful
to communicate also withparents, to demonstrate what has
been learned, how the studentswent about to do their
assignments, where their strongpoints are and where there's
(24:17):
room for improvement. She saidit's so good. We don't need to
argue, we don't need to go backand forth. We have everything
here, and we are in this ongoingconversation about what are we
learning, how are we learning,and how can we support each
other to learn?
Kristina Hoeppner (24:32):
I think that also shows nicely that
oftentimes the portfolio work,the things the students had gone
through, they only realize it inhindsight that it has actually
been helpful. In my opinion,it's really good what Sebastian
said he did in his classes thatit's kind of forming a bit of a
habit for the students byworking on the portfolio
consistently every week, notnecessarily for it to be handed
(24:55):
in or for somebody else to seeor for the lecturer to see, but
really for the students to getinto the habit of reflecting on
a regular basis with thetargeted questions that are in
the template so that it's notjust a recounting, a summarising
of their experiences, but reallydigging deeper into what did I
learn and what do I want to donext.
Margarete Imhof (25:17):
Yeah, the challenge for us teachers is to
help students realise thebenefits of that work. First of
all, they probably don't evenhave the goal to dig deeper.
Their goal may just be to passthat course. But the idea is,
what can we do to show them thebenefits of taking this extra
step, of thinking a bit longer,a bit more deeply? It's also a
(25:41):
learning journey for us teacherswhen we introduce portfolio in
our courses.
Kristina Hoeppner (25:46):
Have you tried a few strategies on making
those benefits more transparentor more understood by the
students? Do you have somethings that have worked for you?
Margarete Imhof (25:57):
First of all, I think it's important to realise
portfolio is not a panacea. It'snot a one size fits all thing.
I've had some instances whenstudents ask me for feedback on
their assignments. Then I gavethem my feedback, I gave them
some ideas of how to improve onwhat they have had turned in
previously, and some understandthe idea. Some continue to work
(26:21):
and edit and revise theirproducts. And these are rare
cases, but these are the caseswhere I have a strong feeling
that I've had an impact, that wehad a real conversation and not
just a teacher studentconversation. So encouraging
students to react to thefeedback and showing the
willingness that you're not donebecause you have shared your
(26:44):
comments, but showing yourwillingness to look at the same
thing once again. It's, ofcourse, a matter of time, but
since, out of a large lectureclass of 300 maybe 10 catch on,
it's doable. It would be veryhard if all 300 in an
introduction to psych(ology)class would engage in that
cycle. That would be impossible.
So you have to take one by one,step by step, day by day,
(27:07):
student by student, and hopethat the impact multiplies.
Kristina Hoeppner (27:13):
Which is then, I guess, also the
challenge for the universitieswith 300 students, you can't
just do that with two teachingassistants or research
assistants and supporting that,but there need to be different
structures, like peer feedback.
But then there also goes back towhat you had said earlier, that
students don't necessarily trustthe peers. They do want that
(27:33):
feedback from an authorityperson rather than from somebody
else. So we are coming back tothat culture change that needs
to be implemented.
And so what do you think, if youcould write a wish list, would
help to make portfolios usedmore widely at the university,
also in other departments or foryou to have the support to get
(27:57):
all 300 students really usingportfolios, and even if you're
just looking at that intro topsychology course, and really
support them in a way,especially if at least half of
them get the benefits ofportfolios?
Sebastian Laube (28:12):
I think we need more instructors to take the
time to adopt and use Maharamore extensively. Additionally,
we need stronger commitment fromuniversity leadership to make
Mahara a central tool instudies, rather than an isolated
initiative. Similar to learningmanagement systems like Moodle,
(28:32):
we need the commitment that weuse Maha in our courses and that
portfolio work is a good thing.
Kristina Hoeppner (28:39):
Yeah, that is the commitment from management,
from administration. Anythingelse that you would like to
maybe say to your universityadministration or encourage
other community members to talkwith their administration about?
Margarete Imhof (28:54):
I would put on the wish list that the
administration should probablynot so much focus on
assignments, on tests, ongrades, so that we have more
space, more time to actuallyengage in conversation with the
students. That we can reallyhave these conversations, that
we can say, 'Okay, all thecontent is available through
(29:14):
recordings, through textbooks,through learning management
systems. It's all out there.'But what really counts is the
interaction, the communicationabout the content, the
discussion about the content.
A good university teacher is nota knowledgeable person who kind
of talks as if he was reading asophisticated, learned book. A
(29:37):
good university teacher issomeone who can take the time
and have [laughs] have thepatience to work out where the
students - where they want togo, how they are working to
pursue their goals, and supporttheir learning. This is a
different role model of ateacher. So I wish that the
administration would besupportive of teachers who are
(30:00):
trying to develop this new orslightly different habit of
teaching and culture ofteaching.
Kristina Hoeppner (30:08):
Since we've been talking about the teacher
not being the sage on the stageany more, but more the guide on
the side or the gardener or anyof the other metaphors for a
while, I think we'll still bechipping away on that for a
while, but every little bit, Ithink, counts, and have projects
like yours that show a differentway, that also show that it can
(30:30):
work and how it benefits thestudents and also the lecturers,
and making sure that they knowthat their students are learning
and that they can transfer theirskills into other areas then.
Is there anything that you'dlike to be able to do with
portfolios, either practice wiseor tool wise, that you currently
(30:52):
can't? Franziska, does anythingcome to mind there?
Franziska Ohl (30:55):
We would like to see more targeted feedback with
feedback loops that are, on theone hand, more accessible and on
the other hand better accepted,both in teacher learning
relationships and in peerfeedback. And it's more about
getting people actually talkingwith each other, not about the
content, but about the differentlearning paths students are
(31:19):
making.
Kristina Hoeppner (31:20):
So it is conversation and not being
afraid to ask for that feedbackand having good strategies of
giving good feedback.
Franziska Ohl (31:29):
And also talk about it. It's not about just
receiving it, but to implementit, and what do I want to do
with that? Is it something Iwant to keep or is it something
that the other person'sperspective is not interesting
for me. I feel like it's thetalking about the feedback. What
is it actually about? We talk alot about content, but not about
(31:50):
how did you get there? How doyou want to go further? And what
are your plans anyway, inbecoming a teacher? What is your
personality? Who do you want tobecome? The possibility we have
with feedback is to start aculture of failure, to talk
about what was not working, tokeep on working and learning,
(32:11):
and start to talk about, or moreabout what is not working to
become better in what we'redoing.
It's not just the work forstudents, but also for us as
lecturers to think about whatare we doing already very good,
but where do we have to improve?
We don't get that when we justsit there and look at our desks.
We have to get into contact withstudents and talk about what we
(32:33):
are doing.
Kristina Hoeppner (32:37):
That's very important that we also accepting
that for ourselves. Sebastian,is there anything from your side
that you would love to be ableto do but can't just yet?
Sebastian Laube (32:47):
For giving targeted feedback and also for
seeking feedback, it would behelpful if you could tag other
users on Mahara. So in comments,like most social media platforms
have so that students knowthey've been addressed and
received notification. Thatwould be a cool thing.
(33:08):
Besides that, I really like theMahara Mobile app. I sometimes
use it for my own work. When Ilook at my students in the
courses, fewer and fewer of themuse laptops, and they often try
to do everything on theirphones. So perhaps there is room
to explore future possibilitieshere so that you can edit your
(33:31):
portfolio from a mobile phone.
That would be cool. But overall,I'm very satisfied with Mahara.
You can do a lot with it. Itdoes require some effort to get
started, but if you're done withthe onboarding, it can be real
fun.
Kristina Hoeppner (33:45):
It's almost like we read your mind when we
put our roadmap together becausethe tagging feature is on that
one. That was also on the mindfor some other organisations, so
you're right on track there. Inregards to the Mahara Mobile
app, we are also thinking aboutwhat changes we can make to it.
In general, portfolios can beedited on mobile devices, just
(34:08):
not through the app. So the appis really more of an add-on so
that you can more easily recordvideo or audio offline when you
might not have a good internetconnection, but if you are
online, portfolios candefinitely be edited also on
smaller mobile devices so thatcontent can be created also on
the fly.
(34:28):
Margarete, is there anything onyour mind for things in your
portfolio practice that you'veseen over the years where you
think this would be wonderful tohave and to be able to do?
Margarete Imhof (34:40):
Basically, the icing on the cake would be to be
able to see what kind ofpresentation portfolios students
would produce to presentthemselves as new teachers, for
example, in a school, toparents, to students. I would
love to know a bit more (34:55):
What's the essence of their studies?
What are they taking away fromhere? We are always in the dark.
We get a few spotlights here andthere, but we are always in the
dark, basically. What do theyremember? How do they integrate
and combine the bodies ofknowledge? Or do they leave
university after graduation andsay, 'Well, thank God, this is
(35:17):
behind me, and now up to newhorizons and my own thinking and
own plans.' I'd love to see howthey use what they got here,
what they took out of theuniversity course into their
professional development.
Sometimes I would wish I couldopen that door a bit and see
what happens.
Kristina Hoeppner (35:35):
I guess we need a new project for you at
the university to look at thatshowcase portfolio in the last
year of the studies of thestudents, in order to create
that, provide them with support,and what that could look like,
and then maybe even make itpublic, or at least semi public,
so that you can get thatinsight.
Margarete Imhof (35:55):
That would be a great format that we could
introduce. But this alsodefinitely would need a change
of culture without fear of beingjudged, show what you've done,
what you've achieved, where youwant to go, how you could
condense things?
Kristina Hoeppner (36:10):
Yeah, and that could also be a really nice
culmination of all the work thatyou're doing in the area of the
developmental learningportfolio, the giving and
receiving of feedback, thebuilding of trust, that the
students know they are notjudged for what they are
writing, but that they reallyhave that community of fellow
learners and educators who aresupporting them in their studies
(36:32):
and in their furtherprofessional development and
also personal development.
Before we get to our quickanswer round, is there anything
else that we haven't reallytalked about that you do want to
let our listeners know?
Margarete Imhof (36:47):
The only issue, but this is not very specific to
portfolio, but the one issuethat I would like to raise here
is that we need to be careful tonot look at portfolio as an
instrument or a technique oreven of technology. It always
has to do with people. It has todo with teacher competences. It
has to do with teachers who areable to build this relationship,
(37:10):
to create this space for trust,and not only to focus on the
content, but also on the sharedexcitement, on the shared
frustration, on the shared joyto make progress. Make sure that
you don't forget the humanfactor.
Kristina Hoeppner (37:25):
That's why I really like the term that is
being used in the States quitefrequently for portfolios, also
being a High-Impact Practice, sothat it doesn't just focus on
the tool or on the pedagogy sideof things, but really combines
it. It's a practice we need tolook at it more holistically
because that definitely helps usget away from just looking at
(37:48):
the technology side of things.
Now for our quick answer roundand here, I'd very much like for
all three of you to answer thesequick questions that we can
widen our corpus of what peoplethink about portfolios and also
what tips we have because Ithink they are really, really
important to share. Firstquestion, and we'll start with
(38:09):
Margarete, is, which words orshort phrases do you use to
describe portfolio work?
Margarete Imhof (38:17):
I will come back to the three R's. Stimulate
reflection, build relationships,and round up a team to support
you.
Kristina Hoeppner (38:25):
Wonderful.
Thank you. Franziska, what areyour three words or short
phrases?
Franziska Ohl (38:30):
For me, portfolio work is a collaborative and
creative way to impact learningenvironments of students.
Kristina Hoeppner (38:37):
Awesome.
Sebastian?
Sebastian Laube (38:39):
Portfolio work for me is a stony trail, but
with sweet roots at the end.
Kristina Hoeppner (38:47):
Oh my gosh.
Love a good metaphor here andmaking that visible. Thank you.
Franziska, what tip do you havefor learning designers or
instructors who create portfolioactivities?
Franziska Ohl (39:00):
My tip is to break down the steps, to guide
learners through theenvironment, and integrate
feedback opportunities and peerfeedback, please.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:12):
That is very clear. Thank you. Sebastian,
what's your tip?
Sebastian Laube (39:15):
Keep it simple.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:17):
Margarete?
Margarete Imhof (39:18):
My tip would be, don't impose a portfolio on
learners. Have this conversationwith the learners. Listen to the
learners to understand whatexactly the design of the
portfolio needs to be for thisparticular group. Don't try to
know it all before you havetalked to them.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:35):
Thank you.
And that leads nicely into ourlast question for today, which
is, what advice do you have forportfolio authors or students?
Sebastian, why don't you startus off?
Sebastian Laube (39:47):
Keep it going.
It's worth it.
Kristina Hoeppner (39:50):
Margarete?
Margarete Imhof (39:51):
Don't be afraid of errors. Don't be discouraged.
Just take your time to find thebest way to implement portfolio
in to your practice.
Kristina Hoeppner (40:01):
Wonderful.
Thank you, and Franziska for ourthird tip for our portfolio
authors.
Franziska Ohl (40:07):
My advice is that the goal is not to present your
skills, but to emphasise how yousolve problems or how your
progress is going on. Includeyour reflections and make it
visually engaging to keep going.
Kristina Hoeppner (40:21):
Thank you so much for that final tip and for
all the insight the three of youhave given today. I think your
work in your project at theuniversity in Mainz does show
another side of the portfoliobecause oftentimes we do talk
about a presentation portfolioand a showcase portfolio, using
it for employability, but whatyou've demonstrated really
(40:43):
nicely is that portfolio forlearning that students don't
necessarily have to share withsomebody, and also for
incorporating those feedbacktechniques to make them more
confident learners to engage inconversations, so that it is not
just the portfolio that was puttogether, almost like an
activity where you get a gradeor something like that, and then
(41:06):
don't look at it any more, butreally revisit what had been
learned in the past, engage withothers in order to have that
social learning and worktogether. So thank you so much
to the three of you, Margarete,Franziska, and Sebastian,
Margarete Imhof (41:19):
Thank you for having us.
Kristina Hoeppner (41:22):
Now over to our listeners, what do you want
to try in your own portfoliopractice? This was 'Create.
Share. Engage.' with ProfessorDr Margarete Imhof, Franziska
Ohl, and Sebastian Laube. Headto our website,
podcast.mahara.org, where youcan find resources and the
transcript for this episode.
This podcast is produced byCatalyst IT, and I'm your host,
(41:44):
Kristina Hoeppner, Project Leadand Product Manager of the
portfolio platform Mahara. Ournext episode will air in two
weeks. I hope you will listenagain and tell a colleague about
our podcast so they cansubscribe. Until then create,
share, and engage.
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