October 30, 2022 • 34 mins
On today’s episode of Creative Space, we have the pleasure of speaking with Jezabel Careaga. She’s an entrepreneur, designer, chef and maker from Jujuy Argentina, who moved to Philadelphia in 2010 to open her cafe, Jezabel’s, in Fitler Square. Over the last 12 years, her empanadas, alfajores and other Argentine delicacies have become a staple in Philly. In 2019, she relocated to a larger space in Spruce Hill where she expanded her offerings to include cooking classes and special events. Her latest venture is L’Atelier, her collection of custom furniture and artisan home goods.
Jezabel defies categories as an entrepreneur and creative, having started out as a chef and cafe owner and now making the transition into a career as a furniture designer with L’Atelier.
If you’re a creative with a lot of different interests, Jezabel has a lot of sound advice and perspective on making it all work.
For more information on Jezabel, follow her on Instagram @jezabelcareaga.
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SHOW NOTES:
0:00—Introduction
1:35—How we met
2:34—There’s no greater equalizer than being human
4:38—Having a lot of creative outlets
5:09—Time is finite, so be economical
6:14—Growing up in Jujuy, Argentina
7:00—How being the oldest sibling affected her
8:42—The education system in Argentina
9:47—Looking up to her father
11:45—Crafts at school and cooking with Julia
13:25—If you want to do something, just get it done
16:05—Be loving but also have boundaries
17:27—What is creativity?
19:30—When she first wanted to be a business owner
20:30—Opening her first cafe at 26
21:00—What brought Jezabel to Philly
21:40—How to choose between ideas
23:38—Her greatest challenge as an entrepreneur
26:48—The inspiration behind L’Atelier
29:00—What’s next? A career in design
31:00—How architects inspire Jezabel’s furniture designs
32:25—How to make time for many creative outlets
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer Logue (00:12):
Hello everyone and welcome to creative space, a
Podcast where we explore, learnand grow and creativity
together. On today's episode, wehave the pleasure of speaking
with Jezebel kariega. She's anentrepreneur, designer, Chef and
maker from Hanoi, Argentina, whomoved to Philadelphia in 2010 to
(00:32):
open her Cafe Jezza bells andfiller square. Over the last 12
years, her empanadas of theholidays, and other Argentine
delicacies have become a staplein Philly. In 2019, she
relocated to a larger space inspruce hill, where she expanded
her offerings to include cookingclasses and special events. Her
(00:54):
latest venture, which we'regoing to talk about today is
let's tell you her collection ofcustom furniture and artisan
home goods. She's a woman ofmany talents. Welcome to
Creative Space. Jerseyville.
Jezabel Careaga (01:06):
Thank you for having me.
Jennifer Logue (01:08):
My pleasure. I have to start this off by Do you
remember how we met originally?
Jezabel Careaga (01:15):
I think I think you came over to 26 some time.
Yeah, I think it was even like arainy morning, or something like
that. I want to say I rememberbeing gray ish, which is yeah,
Jennifer Logue (01:29):
I remember vividly, I think it was for a
metro story.
Jezabel Careaga (01:32):
Yes, that's the right. That's right. Yes.
Jennifer Logue (01:36):
And I think you sent me home with the most
amazing upper holidays I've everhad in my life. And I like
remember them in a little bag.
They're just so beautiful, sodelicious. And like, you put so
much love into everything youcreate. So I'm so excited to
have you on space.
Jezabel Careaga (01:53):
Yeah, I'm excited to be here. I love to
talk about creativity and whatdrives the human being to, you
know, the pursuit of alwaysputting something together. So
I'm happy to be here.
Jennifer Logue (02:05):
Yes. And on your website, I think I saw you have
these lines, human being humandoing human loving human
dreaming? Do you want to talkabout that a little bit?
Jezabel Careaga (02:18):
Oh, my God, it's funny. Yes, I would love to
talk about it. I just had thatconversation also, with some
friends over here at the Atelierlast Friday, because, you know,
we're talking about thing, welive in a society that likes to
put you in boxes. And we am allabout like, what are we right?
(02:39):
Like, usually you meet someoneand you're like, what do you do?
What are you who are you andthen it's like, I'm a human
being doing lobbying training.
And I think those are like, thebursts are the actions that I
associate the most. You know,I'm also thinking, but it's kind
of like dreaming this kind oflike loving someone, that's what
(03:00):
you could for them, right? Idon't know, that means like also
doing and I just want to behuman, I want to do things as a
human. And I think it justbreaks the boxes of who are you?
What do you do, we're allhumans, right? I think if there
is no bigger equalizer to saylike, whether you are if you
(03:23):
become a physician, or you treatpatients or you are a lawyer, or
you are an architect, or you area cook, I mean, we're all just
humans, so I decided to kind ofpush a little bit the envelope.
I didn't say like, you know,when people ask me, What are you
I'm a human being doing lobbyingtraining. Then any other title,
(03:44):
you know, we decide to have, youknow, that are added titles that
kind of define who you are beingan entrepreneur and maker like
Cook, Chef, founder, all ofthose things. I think they come
second. But the main core isbeing that human was dreaming,
being doing and I'm loving
Jennifer Logue (04:08):
it. I know I struggled to creative sometimes
when I have all these differentoutlets, and some people don't
have many outlets, they focus onone thing. And I love this
philosophy you have just aboutbeing human in general, because
it opens everything up and getsus out of those boxes. So we can
create and be and do and loveand that's so beautiful. Thank
(04:31):
you for sharing. Yeah,
Jezabel Careaga (04:33):
of course.
Yeah, I don't know. I think likeI'm very much in like, I have
this constant reminder that timeis so finished, right? And I'm
constantly deciding how manywords I want to use. I don't
want to use an extra word, but Ihave to I don't want to make an
extra step that I don't have tolike, consider myself extremely
economical in the sense of likethat I take the steps that I
(04:57):
need to take but I don't as andextra energy on projects on
things that I don't want to dofeel that things that they don't
feel right on people that Idon't want to be with. You know,
and I think being human, it kindof like also opens the door to
whatever you're going through.
(05:18):
Because we're all going throughsomething. Yes, we're through
some insecurity, it stars,sickness, whatever, like
everybody's going through somekind of something. And I think
it just opens, you lowers theshield? Yeah, to kind of be
human.
Jennifer Logue (05:37):
Yes, we're all on a journey to grow and to
become who were meant to becomeon this planet. So. So let's
start at the very beginning ofyour journey. What was it like
growing up in Hawaii? Argentina?
Jezabel Careaga (05:52):
Oh, my goodness, I haven't had that
question in a long time.
Jennifer Logue (05:57):
I'm glad I asked it. Yeah.
Jezabel Careaga (06:01):
I think there were many things that I they're
very ideally, in a way, youknow, I grew up on a smaller
town feeling even though therewere 50,000 or 50,000 people in
that town. But more of like, ina small town feeling surrounded
by close knit relatives, family,grandmas around life revolve
(06:25):
pretty much around family. Youknow, I'm the oldest of four.
And I think that's a title thatI was born into. Right. And I
think part of that, it's alwaysI always been, like, I always
had, like, drive on my own,like, you know, I'm a self
(06:48):
starter, I think I think a lotof things in my personality,
they come from that corner, youknow, for one side than the
other one, like being a leader.
You know, my siblings are like,six 813 years younger than me.
So, you know, I was always theolder the one that is like, kind
of seeing how things go for, andthings like that. So it's a mix
(07:10):
of things. And I think justhaving that role in my life at
six, because that's when mysister is born. Definitely has
influenced who I am. And the waythat I will eat, you know, and
someone asked me not that longago on an interview, if you were
to be an animal, or a plant, whywould you be and then I said a
(07:33):
lioness, you know, and what thelion is that is just to text,
her calves and her partner,like, nothing can happen to
them, right? Like, and if youare in my corner, that's who I
am. And I am that person with myteam. I am that person with my
friends. I am that person withmy family. So I don't know, it's
(07:55):
getting mixed up here. But Ithink part of like, a lot of
those things, getting steel as achild, like being a self
starter, being the leader of thepack. very loving, very open.
Really good progressiveeducation. I mean, I this is one
(08:17):
thing that I always remember Iwas in sixth grade when I
learned about climate change.
Oh, wow, this is 919 93. So whensometimes I have questions about
I start talking about climatechange on eel, like wind energy
and all of these things. To me,it seems weird that we're still
(08:40):
trying to think about like, Oh,we're going through climate
change. Now. We're going throughclimate collapse. We have known
this since the 70s. Why are wetrying to take action on these
50 years later? So I had likereally good progressive
education, very open minded. Ilove to work with my hands. I
(09:04):
like to cook I like to work withwoods. I was always kind of
moving my hands around thehouse. So I guess that relates
also fast forward to making foodmaking furniture today,
Jennifer Logue (09:17):
right? So were your parents creative for the
entrepreneurs?
Jezabel Careaga (09:22):
Ah, yes, I know my mom, deeper toes in for a
little bit. But you all send herthing. And then my dad holds a
position at a company that hehad a fair amount of freedom. So
you know, he always was able tohave his job but also like grab
(09:45):
cool projects in between. So Ialways learned that from him,
and he was very well respectedamong his colleagues and the
people that was working for him.
So I always I try to emulatethat kind of way of being a firm
leader, but also flexible onsome angles, right? Like, I do
(10:08):
believe in being professional onshowing up to work presentable
and ready to go and you know,having a little makeup and
always looking your best youknow, but not everything has to
be so as structure. So, youknow, it's like somewhere in
between. My dad was extremelyprofessional, you will never see
(10:30):
him go to work with the uniformfrom the day before, right? Like
always Iran and presentable andjust ready to go and you know,
hair properly combed and thingslike that. So those are I think,
like little things and littledetails that we, for me, they
are important. And I think asyou know, everything gets so
(10:55):
relaxed with COVID. It's kind oflike hard getting back to it
very much
Jennifer Logue (11:03):
is. I agree.
Yeah, learning how to put makeupon again. I was like, Wait, how
do I do this?
Jezabel Careaga (11:13):
But here we are. Yes, exactly.
Jennifer Logue (11:16):
What was your first creative outlet growing
up?
Jezabel Careaga (11:21):
We had a class at a school that it was kind of
cool, like, craft, or somethinglike that. So I was always like
overdoing myself. And then Ijust love cooking. So whenever I
had the chance to cook with mymom or my grandmother, we did
(11:41):
that as well. So you know, Iwill say like cooking and just
doing crafts. At some point, Iassemble like a little coffee
table. By the time I may havebeen like 15 1415. You know, I
just remember my dad, like, canwe please make this table and we
believe me this table, so weended up doing it?
Jennifer Logue (12:02):
Together you and your dad?
Jezabel Careaga (12:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. But yeah, I love just
working with my hands.
Jennifer Logue (12:10):
So your dad's a woodworker, too.
Jezabel Careaga (12:13):
He was he my dad is very handy. He will like
fix an outlet he will fix forsaid he will like, you know, fix
very, very, very handy. Mygrandfather made furniture. In
on my dad's side, he madefurniture for the house. So the
(12:36):
house that I grew up in asleepin the bed that I grew up is
sleeping in as a kid, mygrandfather have made it. Oh,
that's beautiful. Yeah.
Jennifer Logue (12:47):
So all these inspirations, it's so
interesting, and so cool to seewhere it's led you today. But
what drove your creativity backthen, as a kid? You remember?
Jezabel Careaga (13:02):
I mean, I mean, I don't know if this is the best
answer. But I think lately I'vebeen trying to I, I think a lot
of my creativity is driven by orinspired by my grandmother
folia. She took care of me sinceI was six months old when my mom
(13:25):
went back to work until I wasfive and I started kindergarten.
And I just play in her bag herehelp her make pasta, feel
potatoes. And I just was like Ilive in la la land at all of
those years, right? Like themost formative years of a child
(13:46):
from six months to five years.
Yes, I had these like, life oflike Wonder and like she will
take me to the grocer, thegrocery shop and the baker. We
will go to the bakery. And wewill go to pick up meat and the
butcher and all of those things.
And my grandmother was come fromvery humble beginnings. But if
(14:12):
she wanted the house painted,she will just go find the paint
and she will paint the wholehouse White and I wonder why
today my house and my businessare all painted white. I think
is a connection to if you justwant to do it. You just get it
done. She loves my grandfatherin her early 60s, I believe. So
(14:37):
you know most of her life. I'mgonna say 30 Yeah, like 30 years
or so. The last three years ofher life she spent it, you know,
like just being the person thatpush like, carries the home. And
she was always that person. So Ithink a lot comes from her. You
(14:57):
know, she was very simple. Onhumble, but every morning she
got out, she washed her face,she put a little moisturizer.
She put the bobby beans, thehand was always happy and tight.
And she put a little lipstick.
And that was it. And it's sobasic. She's ready to go. But
she did it every single day. Doyou right? I need just show that
(15:20):
she was ready for the day. Idon't remember not seeing her
that way. So I don't know, Ithink a lot of my impressions
come from her from just got justgoing around and see what she
was very loving and very caring.
And she didn't have she wasalways able to express what she
(15:46):
wanted, how she wanted her toboundaries and like, be nice.
And when we will walk aroundtown. Everybody loved her like
and when he was like, hey, theywill go hurt on Yahoo. Lita, who
leave that is, yeah, like it'slike a little Julia. But Sonia
is the term of endearment forsomeone who's older. You know,
(16:07):
but they always, like, treat herwith so much kindness, but she
was also the person who wasextremely kind to the camera.
And, you know, that's what shewas. And she was simple and easy
and loving and caring. And Ithink somewhere between her and
(16:30):
who I saw my dad become a leaderand be a person who ended up
running the company that heworked for for so many years is
kind of where I want to end upand kind of like who I tried to
emulate and use them as rolemodels for my life.
Jennifer Logue (16:49):
Oh, wow.
wonderful role models, coveringthe whole gamut. So beautiful.
So on the subject of creativity,how would you define it? What do
you think it comes from?
Jezabel Careaga (17:01):
How do I define creativity today? I think it's
like, your heart expression.
That's what I call creativity.
You know, at the end of the day,you can be created in so many
ways. You can be creative makingfood, you can be creative,
working with bird, you can becreative, designing a space
(17:21):
designing experience designingyour company, I think creativity
is really tight with intention.
Right? Just being intentional.
You know, where design comesfrom is like the moment that you
(17:44):
decide to make somethingprettier. So you're not, it
doesn't only touch your life,but also touch the lives of
those around you. And I readthis recently had a book that I
just finished. That's what he'sconsider designed to be right.
Like the moment you decide tomake something prettier for
(18:07):
yourself or for others. Sobeautiful, I can definitely be
applied to TVT. Yeah, yeah. Andthen being creative, I think is
is just part of that designcomponent to say like, I'm going
to make this better for myself.
And most likely, I'm hoping thiswill attach others to that idea
of making things better making Idon't have to worry is better.
(18:30):
But I did beauty to it, add tothe world, whatever that is,
whether it is through a planter,a plate of food, a building, the
experience that you have, whenyou go into a building, the way
that you write a paper, thereare so many ways to add beauty
(18:50):
every day. So I think that'swhat I would either define
creativity somewhere along thoselines, the intention.
Jennifer Logue (18:59):
So did you know you want to start your own
business?
Jezabel Careaga (19:04):
I knew that I you know, I guess we knew it at
different points. But I rememberBlaine, around five or six
saying like grabbing like littleleaves and stones and I will set
it up on my parent's garage. AndI will play that I had a grocery
(19:26):
store. So it could come fromthere. And I remember having my
little like bag and cross in mybody and I will like make like
cabra Euro papers and that wasin money and that will be like
my play time with my neighbors.
That was one. The other one itwas when I went to business
school. While I'm working as atour operator office with Sara
(19:51):
Hill. I do the business program,and I develop the business
programs for that company. Butthen I also told myself like, by
the time I'm like 3840, anaccurate category, I would like
to open this restaurant, slashbakery catering type of thing.
With a lot of window, a lot oflight open kitchen. And that
(20:15):
opportunity came along afterbeing two years in Miami when I
was trying to 627.
Jennifer Logue (20:24):
So it came a lot earlier for you, which is
wonderful.
Jezabel Careaga (20:27):
I know. So now that I just turned 40 I'm trying
to figure out what to do with mylife.
Jennifer Logue (20:33):
We'll get to that part. But why did you
choose Philly from Miami forJezza bells?
Jezabel Careaga (20:39):
Do you know I'm an artist, I follow my heart.
And I have met someone in Miami.
That was from Philadelphia. Andhe had he owned the property
where I originally open my cafe26 some time. So it's like,
let's move to Philly. I waslike, Sure. That sounds like a
great idea. You know, the beautyof being 20 something. I'm just
(21:01):
gonna open a business.
Jennifer Logue (21:06):
Yeah. And then you have multiple creative
pursuits. So how do you knowwhen to actually make an idea?
You must have a million ideasall the time? Like how do you
know? Okay, this is somethingI'm going to do. I'm opening
this cafe. I'm moving to spruceHill and expanding to offer
cooking classes. I
Jezabel Careaga (21:29):
say, I mean, I think and this is more, the more
reflects that I have gottenthrough over the last few years
that it comes to the connectionthat you have to yourself. Since
I was five, and I was playingthat I own a grocery store to
you know, I'm planning to stay20 years later when I open just
(21:52):
wells. And today 15 years later,when I had a business for so
long. I think one of theconversations that I have with
one of my closest friends oftenis say you're just following
your intuition. So now, do Ineed to follow my intuition on
(22:12):
every single thing that he leadsme? No. I think I'm very
fortunate that if I have anidea, because I already have a
business and a platform, I cantest it for a little time. And
then I can say like, well, maybethis is a great idea, but not
for now. Maybe this is a greatidea for later, maybe this is a
(22:35):
great idea to become its ownbusiness down the line. And I
have tried things that they havenot worked, and then just put
them back to sleep. You know,and you never know, to be
honest, you never know. But Ithink that's I follow my
intuition. And I follow my heartto say like, Oh, this feels
(22:57):
fine. This makes me feel good.
Let's explore that area. And thefact that I can explore and see
what happens. I mean, that's avery fortunate position to be
in.
Jennifer Logue (23:09):
What's the greatest challenge you've
experienced as an entrepreneurso far?
Jezabel Careaga (23:19):
greatest challenge. A challenging time,
I'm gonna say maybe it was whenI had to move the business from
26 and pine to 45th Street. Ithink a lot of which is the
place where you met me, right.
And then you also had been tothe new space as well
Jennifer Logue (23:41):
love the new spa, beautiful. Yeah,
Jezabel Careaga (23:43):
I can't wait for you to come and see the
whole new expansion. But I countthat as a very challenging time.
Because I think for training fora long time. 26 some time was my
identity. Right? That's whatpeople knew me for. And I saw
(24:04):
when I had to execute the movevery quickly, in order for the
business not to go under orthings like that. It was just
physically and emotionallytaxing on my body. And it took
me a long time to recover. Youknow, I made the moves. I said
(24:27):
the business to be okay for sixmonths, but then 2019 I ran out
of money, day after day afterday after day, and then 2020
came out. Oh my gosh. So, youknow, I think 29 That moment
that I had to move the business.
I just couldn't asleep. I waswith acid reflux all day long.
(24:48):
Even if I wasn't eating much. Itwas it just it was an emotional
shock to my system. I'm veryhappy that I went through it,
I'm so happy that things happenthe way that they happen, and
you don't. And I remembertelling myself that in that
moment that I was going throughthe mouth to say, like, you
(25:09):
don't know yet, but this is thebest, like, you need to do this
change. I know it sucks, butjust, it's okay, get through the
pain, get through it, andhonestly get through all of
these, like, it's gonna be okay.
And I just believe either myselfor I trust the universe, that
everything was going to be okay.
And yeah, it was just getting tothe other side. And now, I
(25:33):
couldn't be happier that thingshappen the way that they happen.
So instead of like, fighting,and getting upset and angry at
challenging times, I justdecided to say like, okay,
that's happening, what can youdo to keep moving forward, keep
putting one feet in front of theother one. And then just lead
(25:56):
what is painful, be painful,where what is being challenging,
be challenging, just kind oflike these very, like tunnel
vision of like, one feet infront of the other one, one feet
in front of the other one, youknow, you don't know what's
going to happen. But I believethat I was going to be able to
figure it out.
Jennifer Logue (26:18):
You are so inspiring. That is amazing
advice that I'm taking formyself. Because you do come out
the other side stronger, andyou're more ready for new
challenges, new opportunities.
Now speaking of that, let's talkabout Latella year. We know you
always designed furniture, itsounds like from what was the
(26:39):
inspiration behind the tilleryear?
Jezabel Careaga (26:44):
I think like everything else in my life, very
organic. Right? I started makingfurniture in 2015. Like more
formally trained here in the US,and then I just like testing
things out, and then I furnishmy house. Why have I always
(27:05):
focus on the gaps that you findalong the way? So I think one of
the things that I learned at 26and fine, he was like, it's no,
and then you have the healthcareregulation. And then you have
other regulations. And then youhave regulations for commercial
businesses. So if at any point,you're like, considering all of
(27:25):
the things, we're running abusiness, and you have to get
custom made pieces, all of thesethings, I mean, it's extremely
expensive. So I was like, maybeyou can start fabricating these,
and that, and this and that. Andthat's what I did. So that's I
did a few pieces and things for26. I'm fine. And then I was
(27:47):
like now that I know thehealthcare regulation, I want to
make this space pretty for everyguest that walks in here. But I
also want to make this spacepretty for everybody who works
here. Because the employees arethe ones that they spend the
most time to space.
Jennifer Logue (28:01):
Yes, that's.
Jezabel Careaga (28:04):
So when I started expanding on 20s and
45th street, I was like, let'smake it clearly from beginning
to add for everybody. So I thinkthat was a lot of the driver
behind it. And then you know, Ifurnish one space I furnish a
space to, and then at thatpoint, I'm like, Well, I think I
(28:27):
need to just have a businessthat is for design, and
furniture, because it'ssomething that that's my next
year, I think, you know, I mean,I do a lot of reading, I exposed
myself to a fair amount of artand architecture and sculpture.
And I have many friends that arearchitects and in the design
(28:49):
world. So these areconversations that I have on a
regular basis. So okay, it'sagain, just following my
intuition little by little, andthen it takes you somewhere and
then it's taking you I mean, nowtoday to the space where I'm
sitting, which is like a year.
Jennifer Logue (29:08):
I can't wait to see it. Do you have a particular
piece that you've worked on,that you'd like to share story
about that maybe means somethingto you?
Jezabel Careaga (29:19):
Oh my god, I think my desk is the one that
definitely holds a little bit ofa special place because, you
know, I get to send emails, payinvoices, but also I get to draw
(29:41):
and write and it's a space thatI get to have conversations on.
So I feel like that's a specialplace. They are a special place
is this so far where I'm sittingon right now? Because yesterday
I had a friend I came over andthen it was like, let's just go
(30:02):
to the sofa. So we close the apphere and we had our coffee and
our tea and just like and thenit was like That said, it's
awesome pleased to have to getit to just relax without a like
you're sitting on a chair is alot more formal. So I do love
these fees. So yeah, I will saylike, somewhere along my desk
(30:24):
and this so far.
Jennifer Logue (30:29):
Are there particular designers who inspire
you in your furniture designwork?
Jezabel Careaga (30:35):
I cannot name a designer, to be honest, I don't
think I follow a designer. Ithink I follow more architects.
Okay. So Hadid, who's no longerwith us, and then Frank Gehry.
Yes, you know, the clean lines.
Yeah, I will say somewhere alongthose lines, but it's that's
(30:57):
more like grandiose bakedarchitecture. But I look at
those things. And then it's likehow kind of like little pieces
of pie will come together on asmaller space. So yeah, I think
somewhere along those lines,yeah.
Jennifer Logue (31:17):
Cool. And how can we see your work and
purchase your designs yourfurniture?
Jezabel Careaga (31:22):
So we're developing a website right now.
So stay tuned on, I think thebest way thing, the best thing
to do is follow me on Instagram.
Because you have a link toeverything I do. Right. So we
have the Joseph mills in there.
You have lateral here in there.
So there are a few thingshappening there. Yeah, but we're
working on the website. Rightnow. We're finishing a few
(31:44):
pieces. So yeah, this is goingto be ready to go. And in the
meantime, I am making furnitureand a few other pieces for other
people. I
Jennifer Logue (31:54):
just have a where do you find the time like,
Oh, my goodness, you doeverything you're Superwoman.
Jezabel Careaga (32:01):
I have a great team. So you know, I need like,
I was telling a friend of ours,like, I think I'm putting myself
out of my kitchen job. Training,training people during these
during that okay, you step back.
So you know, it's just like,Okay, this is out of my hands.
Just make sure he happens. Trythe food here and there. It's
(32:21):
all good to go. So yeah, I thinkis just really like a stepping
back where I have to, you know,I don't have to do everything.
And I just need to learn totrust people to do the best they
can do. And that's it. So
Jennifer Logue (32:40):
truly the mark of a great leader when you can
step away, and the ship sailssmoothly. Yeah, well, I think
yeah, I appreciate it. Just feltthank you so much for taking the
time to interview for creativespace. I didn't know there's so
much about your story that Ididn't know about. So
Jezabel Careaga (32:59):
we can do a second part.
Jennifer Logue (33:03):
I'm going to hold you to that. And in the
meantime, I'll have to go andcheck out your new space and
give myself an upper holidays.
For more on Jezebel and all ofher current projects, visit her
website at Jezebel kariega.com.
And thank you so much for tuningin and growing in creativity
with us. I'd love to know whatyou thought of today's episode,
(33:25):
what you found most interestingwhat you find most helpful. You
can reach out to me on socialmedia at Jennifer Logue or leave
review for creative space onApple podcasts so more people
can discover it. I appreciateyou all so much for being here
in the beginning stages ofcreative space. My name is
Jennifer Logue and thanks forlistening to this episode. Until
(33:46):
next time,
Hello everyone and welcome to creative space, a
Podcast where we explore, learnand grow and creativity
together. On today's episode, wehave the pleasure of speaking
with Jezebel kariega. She's anentrepreneur, designer, Chef and
maker from Hanoi, Argentina, whomoved to Philadelphia in 2010 to
(00:32):
open her Cafe Jezza bells andfiller square. Over the last 12
years, her empanadas of theholidays, and other Argentine
delicacies have become a staplein Philly. In 2019, she
relocated to a larger space inspruce hill, where she expanded
her offerings to include cookingclasses and special events. Her
(00:54):
latest venture, which we'regoing to talk about today is
let's tell you her collection ofcustom furniture and artisan
home goods. She's a woman ofmany talents. Welcome to
Creative Space. Jerseyville.
Jezabel Careaga (01:06):
Thank you for having me.
Jennifer Logue (01:08):
My pleasure. I have to start this off by Do you
remember how we met originally?
Jezabel Careaga (01:15):
I think I think you came over to 26 some time.
Yeah, I think it was even like arainy morning, or something like
that. I want to say I rememberbeing gray ish, which is yeah,
Jennifer Logue (01:29):
I remember vividly, I think it was for a
metro story.
Jezabel Careaga (01:32):
Yes, that's the right. That's right. Yes.
Jennifer Logue (01:36):
And I think you sent me home with the most
amazing upper holidays I've everhad in my life. And I like
remember them in a little bag.
They're just so beautiful, sodelicious. And like, you put so
much love into everything youcreate. So I'm so excited to
have you on space.
Jezabel Careaga (01:53):
Yeah, I'm excited to be here. I love to
talk about creativity and whatdrives the human being to, you
know, the pursuit of alwaysputting something together. So
I'm happy to be here.
Jennifer Logue (02:05):
Yes. And on your website, I think I saw you have
these lines, human being humandoing human loving human
dreaming? Do you want to talkabout that a little bit?
Jezabel Careaga (02:18):
Oh, my God, it's funny. Yes, I would love to
talk about it. I just had thatconversation also, with some
friends over here at the Atelierlast Friday, because, you know,
we're talking about thing, welive in a society that likes to
put you in boxes. And we am allabout like, what are we right?
(02:39):
Like, usually you meet someoneand you're like, what do you do?
What are you who are you andthen it's like, I'm a human
being doing lobbying training.
And I think those are like, thebursts are the actions that I
associate the most. You know,I'm also thinking, but it's kind
of like dreaming this kind oflike loving someone, that's what
(03:00):
you could for them, right? Idon't know, that means like also
doing and I just want to behuman, I want to do things as a
human. And I think it justbreaks the boxes of who are you?
What do you do, we're allhumans, right? I think if there
is no bigger equalizer to saylike, whether you are if you
(03:23):
become a physician, or you treatpatients or you are a lawyer, or
you are an architect, or you area cook, I mean, we're all just
humans, so I decided to kind ofpush a little bit the envelope.
I didn't say like, you know,when people ask me, What are you
I'm a human being doing lobbyingtraining. Then any other title,
(03:44):
you know, we decide to have, youknow, that are added titles that
kind of define who you are beingan entrepreneur and maker like
Cook, Chef, founder, all ofthose things. I think they come
second. But the main core isbeing that human was dreaming,
being doing and I'm loving
Jennifer Logue (04:08):
it. I know I struggled to creative sometimes
when I have all these differentoutlets, and some people don't
have many outlets, they focus onone thing. And I love this
philosophy you have just aboutbeing human in general, because
it opens everything up and getsus out of those boxes. So we can
create and be and do and loveand that's so beautiful. Thank
(04:31):
you for sharing. Yeah,
Jezabel Careaga (04:33):
of course.
Yeah, I don't know. I think likeI'm very much in like, I have
this constant reminder that timeis so finished, right? And I'm
constantly deciding how manywords I want to use. I don't
want to use an extra word, but Ihave to I don't want to make an
extra step that I don't have tolike, consider myself extremely
economical in the sense of likethat I take the steps that I
(04:57):
need to take but I don't as andextra energy on projects on
things that I don't want to dofeel that things that they don't
feel right on people that Idon't want to be with. You know,
and I think being human, it kindof like also opens the door to
whatever you're going through.
(05:18):
Because we're all going throughsomething. Yes, we're through
some insecurity, it stars,sickness, whatever, like
everybody's going through somekind of something. And I think
it just opens, you lowers theshield? Yeah, to kind of be
human.
Jennifer Logue (05:37):
Yes, we're all on a journey to grow and to
become who were meant to becomeon this planet. So. So let's
start at the very beginning ofyour journey. What was it like
growing up in Hawaii? Argentina?
Jezabel Careaga (05:52):
Oh, my goodness, I haven't had that
question in a long time.
Jennifer Logue (05:57):
I'm glad I asked it. Yeah.
Jezabel Careaga (06:01):
I think there were many things that I they're
very ideally, in a way, youknow, I grew up on a smaller
town feeling even though therewere 50,000 or 50,000 people in
that town. But more of like, ina small town feeling surrounded
by close knit relatives, family,grandmas around life revolve
(06:25):
pretty much around family. Youknow, I'm the oldest of four.
And I think that's a title thatI was born into. Right. And I
think part of that, it's alwaysI always been, like, I always
had, like, drive on my own,like, you know, I'm a self
(06:48):
starter, I think I think a lotof things in my personality,
they come from that corner, youknow, for one side than the
other one, like being a leader.
You know, my siblings are like,six 813 years younger than me.
So, you know, I was always theolder the one that is like, kind
of seeing how things go for, andthings like that. So it's a mix
(07:10):
of things. And I think justhaving that role in my life at
six, because that's when mysister is born. Definitely has
influenced who I am. And the waythat I will eat, you know, and
someone asked me not that longago on an interview, if you were
to be an animal, or a plant, whywould you be and then I said a
(07:33):
lioness, you know, and what thelion is that is just to text,
her calves and her partner,like, nothing can happen to
them, right? Like, and if youare in my corner, that's who I
am. And I am that person with myteam. I am that person with my
friends. I am that person withmy family. So I don't know, it's
(07:55):
getting mixed up here. But Ithink part of like, a lot of
those things, getting steel as achild, like being a self
starter, being the leader of thepack. very loving, very open.
Really good progressiveeducation. I mean, I this is one
(08:17):
thing that I always remember Iwas in sixth grade when I
learned about climate change.
Oh, wow, this is 919 93. So whensometimes I have questions about
I start talking about climatechange on eel, like wind energy
and all of these things. To me,it seems weird that we're still
(08:40):
trying to think about like, Oh,we're going through climate
change. Now. We're going throughclimate collapse. We have known
this since the 70s. Why are wetrying to take action on these
50 years later? So I had likereally good progressive
education, very open minded. Ilove to work with my hands. I
(09:04):
like to cook I like to work withwoods. I was always kind of
moving my hands around thehouse. So I guess that relates
also fast forward to making foodmaking furniture today,
Jennifer Logue (09:17):
right? So were your parents creative for the
entrepreneurs?
Jezabel Careaga (09:22):
Ah, yes, I know my mom, deeper toes in for a
little bit. But you all send herthing. And then my dad holds a
position at a company that hehad a fair amount of freedom. So
you know, he always was able tohave his job but also like grab
(09:45):
cool projects in between. So Ialways learned that from him,
and he was very well respectedamong his colleagues and the
people that was working for him.
So I always I try to emulatethat kind of way of being a firm
leader, but also flexible onsome angles, right? Like, I do
(10:08):
believe in being professional onshowing up to work presentable
and ready to go and you know,having a little makeup and
always looking your best youknow, but not everything has to
be so as structure. So, youknow, it's like somewhere in
between. My dad was extremelyprofessional, you will never see
(10:30):
him go to work with the uniformfrom the day before, right? Like
always Iran and presentable andjust ready to go and you know,
hair properly combed and thingslike that. So those are I think,
like little things and littledetails that we, for me, they
are important. And I think asyou know, everything gets so
(10:55):
relaxed with COVID. It's kind oflike hard getting back to it
very much
Jennifer Logue (11:03):
is. I agree.
Yeah, learning how to put makeupon again. I was like, Wait, how
do I do this?
Jezabel Careaga (11:13):
But here we are. Yes, exactly.
Jennifer Logue (11:16):
What was your first creative outlet growing
up?
Jezabel Careaga (11:21):
We had a class at a school that it was kind of
cool, like, craft, or somethinglike that. So I was always like
overdoing myself. And then Ijust love cooking. So whenever I
had the chance to cook with mymom or my grandmother, we did
(11:41):
that as well. So you know, Iwill say like cooking and just
doing crafts. At some point, Iassemble like a little coffee
table. By the time I may havebeen like 15 1415. You know, I
just remember my dad, like, canwe please make this table and we
believe me this table, so weended up doing it?
Jennifer Logue (12:02):
Together you and your dad?
Jezabel Careaga (12:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. But yeah, I love just
working with my hands.
Jennifer Logue (12:10):
So your dad's a woodworker, too.
Jezabel Careaga (12:13):
He was he my dad is very handy. He will like
fix an outlet he will fix forsaid he will like, you know, fix
very, very, very handy. Mygrandfather made furniture. In
on my dad's side, he madefurniture for the house. So the
(12:36):
house that I grew up in asleepin the bed that I grew up is
sleeping in as a kid, mygrandfather have made it. Oh,
that's beautiful. Yeah.
Jennifer Logue (12:47):
So all these inspirations, it's so
interesting, and so cool to seewhere it's led you today. But
what drove your creativity backthen, as a kid? You remember?
Jezabel Careaga (13:02):
I mean, I mean, I don't know if this is the best
answer. But I think lately I'vebeen trying to I, I think a lot
of my creativity is driven by orinspired by my grandmother
folia. She took care of me sinceI was six months old when my mom
(13:25):
went back to work until I wasfive and I started kindergarten.
And I just play in her bag herehelp her make pasta, feel
potatoes. And I just was like Ilive in la la land at all of
those years, right? Like themost formative years of a child
(13:46):
from six months to five years.
Yes, I had these like, life oflike Wonder and like she will
take me to the grocer, thegrocery shop and the baker. We
will go to the bakery. And wewill go to pick up meat and the
butcher and all of those things.
And my grandmother was come fromvery humble beginnings. But if
(14:12):
she wanted the house painted,she will just go find the paint
and she will paint the wholehouse White and I wonder why
today my house and my businessare all painted white. I think
is a connection to if you justwant to do it. You just get it
done. She loves my grandfatherin her early 60s, I believe. So
(14:37):
you know most of her life. I'mgonna say 30 Yeah, like 30 years
or so. The last three years ofher life she spent it, you know,
like just being the person thatpush like, carries the home. And
she was always that person. So Ithink a lot comes from her. You
(14:57):
know, she was very simple. Onhumble, but every morning she
got out, she washed her face,she put a little moisturizer.
She put the bobby beans, thehand was always happy and tight.
And she put a little lipstick.
And that was it. And it's sobasic. She's ready to go. But
she did it every single day. Doyou right? I need just show that
(15:20):
she was ready for the day. Idon't remember not seeing her
that way. So I don't know, Ithink a lot of my impressions
come from her from just got justgoing around and see what she
was very loving and very caring.
And she didn't have she wasalways able to express what she
(15:46):
wanted, how she wanted her toboundaries and like, be nice.
And when we will walk aroundtown. Everybody loved her like
and when he was like, hey, theywill go hurt on Yahoo. Lita, who
leave that is, yeah, like it'slike a little Julia. But Sonia
is the term of endearment forsomeone who's older. You know,
(16:07):
but they always, like, treat herwith so much kindness, but she
was also the person who wasextremely kind to the camera.
And, you know, that's what shewas. And she was simple and easy
and loving and caring. And Ithink somewhere between her and
(16:30):
who I saw my dad become a leaderand be a person who ended up
running the company that heworked for for so many years is
kind of where I want to end upand kind of like who I tried to
emulate and use them as rolemodels for my life.
Jennifer Logue (16:49):
Oh, wow.
wonderful role models, coveringthe whole gamut. So beautiful.
So on the subject of creativity,how would you define it? What do
you think it comes from?
Jezabel Careaga (17:01):
How do I define creativity today? I think it's
like, your heart expression.
That's what I call creativity.
You know, at the end of the day,you can be created in so many
ways. You can be creative makingfood, you can be creative,
working with bird, you can becreative, designing a space
(17:21):
designing experience designingyour company, I think creativity
is really tight with intention.
Right? Just being intentional.
You know, where design comesfrom is like the moment that you
(17:44):
decide to make somethingprettier. So you're not, it
doesn't only touch your life,but also touch the lives of
those around you. And I readthis recently had a book that I
just finished. That's what he'sconsider designed to be right.
Like the moment you decide tomake something prettier for
(18:07):
yourself or for others. Sobeautiful, I can definitely be
applied to TVT. Yeah, yeah. Andthen being creative, I think is
is just part of that designcomponent to say like, I'm going
to make this better for myself.
And most likely, I'm hoping thiswill attach others to that idea
of making things better making Idon't have to worry is better.
(18:30):
But I did beauty to it, add tothe world, whatever that is,
whether it is through a planter,a plate of food, a building, the
experience that you have, whenyou go into a building, the way
that you write a paper, thereare so many ways to add beauty
(18:50):
every day. So I think that'swhat I would either define
creativity somewhere along thoselines, the intention.
Jennifer Logue (18:59):
So did you know you want to start your own
business?
Jezabel Careaga (19:04):
I knew that I you know, I guess we knew it at
different points. But I rememberBlaine, around five or six
saying like grabbing like littleleaves and stones and I will set
it up on my parent's garage. AndI will play that I had a grocery
(19:26):
store. So it could come fromthere. And I remember having my
little like bag and cross in mybody and I will like make like
cabra Euro papers and that wasin money and that will be like
my play time with my neighbors.
That was one. The other one itwas when I went to business
school. While I'm working as atour operator office with Sara
(19:51):
Hill. I do the business program,and I develop the business
programs for that company. Butthen I also told myself like, by
the time I'm like 3840, anaccurate category, I would like
to open this restaurant, slashbakery catering type of thing.
With a lot of window, a lot oflight open kitchen. And that
(20:15):
opportunity came along afterbeing two years in Miami when I
was trying to 627.
Jennifer Logue (20:24):
So it came a lot earlier for you, which is
wonderful.
Jezabel Careaga (20:27):
I know. So now that I just turned 40 I'm trying
to figure out what to do with mylife.
Jennifer Logue (20:33):
We'll get to that part. But why did you
choose Philly from Miami forJezza bells?
Jezabel Careaga (20:39):
Do you know I'm an artist, I follow my heart.
And I have met someone in Miami.
That was from Philadelphia. Andhe had he owned the property
where I originally open my cafe26 some time. So it's like,
let's move to Philly. I waslike, Sure. That sounds like a
great idea. You know, the beautyof being 20 something. I'm just
(21:01):
gonna open a business.
Jennifer Logue (21:06):
Yeah. And then you have multiple creative
pursuits. So how do you knowwhen to actually make an idea?
You must have a million ideasall the time? Like how do you
know? Okay, this is somethingI'm going to do. I'm opening
this cafe. I'm moving to spruceHill and expanding to offer
cooking classes. I
Jezabel Careaga (21:29):
say, I mean, I think and this is more, the more
reflects that I have gottenthrough over the last few years
that it comes to the connectionthat you have to yourself. Since
I was five, and I was playingthat I own a grocery store to
you know, I'm planning to stay20 years later when I open just
(21:52):
wells. And today 15 years later,when I had a business for so
long. I think one of theconversations that I have with
one of my closest friends oftenis say you're just following
your intuition. So now, do Ineed to follow my intuition on
(22:12):
every single thing that he leadsme? No. I think I'm very
fortunate that if I have anidea, because I already have a
business and a platform, I cantest it for a little time. And
then I can say like, well, maybethis is a great idea, but not
for now. Maybe this is a greatidea for later, maybe this is a
(22:35):
great idea to become its ownbusiness down the line. And I
have tried things that they havenot worked, and then just put
them back to sleep. You know,and you never know, to be
honest, you never know. But Ithink that's I follow my
intuition. And I follow my heartto say like, Oh, this feels
(22:57):
fine. This makes me feel good.
Let's explore that area. And thefact that I can explore and see
what happens. I mean, that's avery fortunate position to be
in.
Jennifer Logue (23:09):
What's the greatest challenge you've
experienced as an entrepreneurso far?
Jezabel Careaga (23:19):
greatest challenge. A challenging time,
I'm gonna say maybe it was whenI had to move the business from
26 and pine to 45th Street. Ithink a lot of which is the
place where you met me, right.
And then you also had been tothe new space as well
Jennifer Logue (23:41):
love the new spa, beautiful. Yeah,
Jezabel Careaga (23:43):
I can't wait for you to come and see the
whole new expansion. But I countthat as a very challenging time.
Because I think for training fora long time. 26 some time was my
identity. Right? That's whatpeople knew me for. And I saw
(24:04):
when I had to execute the movevery quickly, in order for the
business not to go under orthings like that. It was just
physically and emotionallytaxing on my body. And it took
me a long time to recover. Youknow, I made the moves. I said
(24:27):
the business to be okay for sixmonths, but then 2019 I ran out
of money, day after day afterday after day, and then 2020
came out. Oh my gosh. So, youknow, I think 29 That moment
that I had to move the business.
I just couldn't asleep. I waswith acid reflux all day long.
(24:48):
Even if I wasn't eating much. Itwas it just it was an emotional
shock to my system. I'm veryhappy that I went through it,
I'm so happy that things happenthe way that they happen, and
you don't. And I remembertelling myself that in that
moment that I was going throughthe mouth to say, like, you
(25:09):
don't know yet, but this is thebest, like, you need to do this
change. I know it sucks, butjust, it's okay, get through the
pain, get through it, andhonestly get through all of
these, like, it's gonna be okay.
And I just believe either myselfor I trust the universe, that
everything was going to be okay.
And yeah, it was just getting tothe other side. And now, I
(25:33):
couldn't be happier that thingshappen the way that they happen.
So instead of like, fighting,and getting upset and angry at
challenging times, I justdecided to say like, okay,
that's happening, what can youdo to keep moving forward, keep
putting one feet in front of theother one. And then just lead
(25:56):
what is painful, be painful,where what is being challenging,
be challenging, just kind oflike these very, like tunnel
vision of like, one feet infront of the other one, one feet
in front of the other one, youknow, you don't know what's
going to happen. But I believethat I was going to be able to
figure it out.
Jennifer Logue (26:18):
You are so inspiring. That is amazing
advice that I'm taking formyself. Because you do come out
the other side stronger, andyou're more ready for new
challenges, new opportunities.
Now speaking of that, let's talkabout Latella year. We know you
always designed furniture, itsounds like from what was the
(26:39):
inspiration behind the tilleryear?
Jezabel Careaga (26:44):
I think like everything else in my life, very
organic. Right? I started makingfurniture in 2015. Like more
formally trained here in the US,and then I just like testing
things out, and then I furnishmy house. Why have I always
(27:05):
focus on the gaps that you findalong the way? So I think one of
the things that I learned at 26and fine, he was like, it's no,
and then you have the healthcareregulation. And then you have
other regulations. And then youhave regulations for commercial
businesses. So if at any point,you're like, considering all of
(27:25):
the things, we're running abusiness, and you have to get
custom made pieces, all of thesethings, I mean, it's extremely
expensive. So I was like, maybeyou can start fabricating these,
and that, and this and that. Andthat's what I did. So that's I
did a few pieces and things for26. I'm fine. And then I was
(27:47):
like now that I know thehealthcare regulation, I want to
make this space pretty for everyguest that walks in here. But I
also want to make this spacepretty for everybody who works
here. Because the employees arethe ones that they spend the
most time to space.
Jennifer Logue (28:01):
Yes, that's.
Jezabel Careaga (28:04):
So when I started expanding on 20s and
45th street, I was like, let'smake it clearly from beginning
to add for everybody. So I thinkthat was a lot of the driver
behind it. And then you know, Ifurnish one space I furnish a
space to, and then at thatpoint, I'm like, Well, I think I
(28:27):
need to just have a businessthat is for design, and
furniture, because it'ssomething that that's my next
year, I think, you know, I mean,I do a lot of reading, I exposed
myself to a fair amount of artand architecture and sculpture.
And I have many friends that arearchitects and in the design
(28:49):
world. So these areconversations that I have on a
regular basis. So okay, it'sagain, just following my
intuition little by little, andthen it takes you somewhere and
then it's taking you I mean, nowtoday to the space where I'm
sitting, which is like a year.
Jennifer Logue (29:08):
I can't wait to see it. Do you have a particular
piece that you've worked on,that you'd like to share story
about that maybe means somethingto you?
Jezabel Careaga (29:19):
Oh my god, I think my desk is the one that
definitely holds a little bit ofa special place because, you
know, I get to send emails, payinvoices, but also I get to draw
(29:41):
and write and it's a space thatI get to have conversations on.
So I feel like that's a specialplace. They are a special place
is this so far where I'm sittingon right now? Because yesterday
I had a friend I came over andthen it was like, let's just go
(30:02):
to the sofa. So we close the apphere and we had our coffee and
our tea and just like and thenit was like That said, it's
awesome pleased to have to getit to just relax without a like
you're sitting on a chair is alot more formal. So I do love
these fees. So yeah, I will saylike, somewhere along my desk
(30:24):
and this so far.
Jennifer Logue (30:29):
Are there particular designers who inspire
you in your furniture designwork?
Jezabel Careaga (30:35):
I cannot name a designer, to be honest, I don't
think I follow a designer. Ithink I follow more architects.
Okay. So Hadid, who's no longerwith us, and then Frank Gehry.
Yes, you know, the clean lines.
Yeah, I will say somewhere alongthose lines, but it's that's
(30:57):
more like grandiose bakedarchitecture. But I look at
those things. And then it's likehow kind of like little pieces
of pie will come together on asmaller space. So yeah, I think
somewhere along those lines,yeah.
Jennifer Logue (31:17):
Cool. And how can we see your work and
purchase your designs yourfurniture?
Jezabel Careaga (31:22):
So we're developing a website right now.
So stay tuned on, I think thebest way thing, the best thing
to do is follow me on Instagram.
Because you have a link toeverything I do. Right. So we
have the Joseph mills in there.
You have lateral here in there.
So there are a few thingshappening there. Yeah, but we're
working on the website. Rightnow. We're finishing a few
(31:44):
pieces. So yeah, this is goingto be ready to go. And in the
meantime, I am making furnitureand a few other pieces for other
people. I
Jennifer Logue (31:54):
just have a where do you find the time like,
Oh, my goodness, you doeverything you're Superwoman.
Jezabel Careaga (32:01):
I have a great team. So you know, I need like,
I was telling a friend of ours,like, I think I'm putting myself
out of my kitchen job. Training,training people during these
during that okay, you step back.
So you know, it's just like,Okay, this is out of my hands.
Just make sure he happens. Trythe food here and there. It's
(32:21):
all good to go. So yeah, I thinkis just really like a stepping
back where I have to, you know,I don't have to do everything.
And I just need to learn totrust people to do the best they
can do. And that's it. So
Jennifer Logue (32:40):
truly the mark of a great leader when you can
step away, and the ship sailssmoothly. Yeah, well, I think
yeah, I appreciate it. Just feltthank you so much for taking the
time to interview for creativespace. I didn't know there's so
much about your story that Ididn't know about. So
Jezabel Careaga (32:59):
we can do a second part.
Jennifer Logue (33:03):
I'm going to hold you to that. And in the
meantime, I'll have to go andcheck out your new space and
give myself an upper holidays.
For more on Jezebel and all ofher current projects, visit her
website at Jezebel kariega.com.
And thank you so much for tuningin and growing in creativity
with us. I'd love to know whatyou thought of today's episode,
(33:25):
what you found most interestingwhat you find most helpful. You
can reach out to me on socialmedia at Jennifer Logue or leave
review for creative space onApple podcasts so more people
can discover it. I appreciateyou all so much for being here
in the beginning stages ofcreative space. My name is
Jennifer Logue and thanks forlistening to this episode. Until
(33:46):
next time,
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