#70 Mary Connaughty-Sullivan: Nudges from the Other Side

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life. And now, here's
your host, Lynn Carnes.

Lynn (00:19):
Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed Podcast. I'm
Lynn Carnes. Your host. My guestfor this episode is Mary
Connaughty-Sullivan. This was anincredibly special episode
unlike any I've done before.
Mary is the author of a booktitled nudges from the other
side. It is the story that sheshares from her journal entries,

(00:42):
along with a lot of poetry, andher own thoughts of losing her
son, Aaron, at the age of 20.
It's not only a heartbreakingstory, but it's also an
uplifting story. You willunderstand that as you listen to
this podcast. And as I start totell you about listening to this

(01:04):
podcast, I want to mentionsomething that she describes
also at the beginning, but Maryhas a voice condition that makes
it makes her voice not as smoothas mine, for example, are yours.
And so in this particularconversation, you'll listen with
both ears. But you'll be gladyou are listening very carefully
to what she has to say becauseMary has a lot to say. Let me

(01:26):
read you her bio. Here's whatshe says. When asked to provide
biographical information. Mary'sfirst sentence typically is I'm
a mom. To say that Erin was andis important to her is an
understatement. She considershim her foremost gift and trust
that in providing his and herstory to readers, they too will
receive a gift. Mary grew up ina small Midwestern town and

(01:49):
enjoyed an active outdoor life.
During an era when life wasslower and simpler. A self
described lifelong learner Marywas encouraged and unrestricted
by her parents to read anythingand everything that interested
her. Her love for words,language and stories persists to
this day.

(02:10):
After college, Mary spent 41years in financial services
where she held roles in sales,leadership and as an executive
leading learning and developmentteams for Fortune 500 firms. She
has a BA in psychology and hasrecently graduated with highest
honors. From the funeraldirectors program at
Fayetteville Technical CommunityCollege, Mary successfully

(02:30):
completed all of her state boardexams and became a licensed
North Carolina funeral directorin September of 2023. Mary lives
on a small farm in NorthCarolina with her husband and
their three horses, three dogsand three cats. In her spare
time, Mary enjoys reading,gardening, waterskiing,
sketching, writing, andhorseback riding.

(02:51):
I hope you enjoy this podcastwith Mary CONADI. Sullivan.
Mary, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you. I'm so glad you'rehere. I I feel like the way that
we started this conversationaround the podcast is fitting
for what I believe our topictoday is going to be which is

(03:13):
your book, not just from theother side. It's also though,
really, I think I'm sensing thatthe theme of that well, for not
sensing that the theme of thatbook, the theme of that book
now, just from the other side isreally about noticing the
synchronicities and things thatare happening in life that we

(03:34):
often let go by as if it's nobig deal. Are we right off to be
in a coincidence? And you happento reach out to me about doing
this podcast. Just as I had thequestion, I wonder who I'm going
to have on my next podcast asthese other three guests are not
ready yet. So my question is,we, we share a background in

(04:00):
banking, we worked at the samebank, I remember where
everything sort of had to beproven and concrete and tangible
we both come from that world.
What has it taken for you tobegin to notice the unseen

Mary (04:25):
Well, thank you I love you know, we even begin I do want to
share with your listeners that Ihave a lot of Wake Up Calls and
a lot of them have happenedfairly early in life. One of
which actually happened to atthe institution that you and I

(04:47):
both worked out we didn't knoweach other better than him to
know each other but both yearshave we worked there. Yeah. But
um, I was running parentagewholesaling. group, I had a
large group of people that workfor me. And a lot of our work
was done. And one day, I wasactually interviewing somebody

(05:12):
over the phone. And I noticedthat my voice began to break.
And what was that? Who did that?
I'm not nervous, I know thisperson, I want this person to
come work for me, what is goingon. And so often, I thought, you
know, I've heard that's all itis. And then a few days later,

(05:34):
it happened again. And then itcan began happening more and
more. And I literally rememberthe very last position I ever
had, where my voice splitsfluid, like yours and 99.9% of
the people in the world. And Ilearned that I had some rare

(05:59):
neurological disorder thataffected my vocal cords, I have
perfectly healthy vocal cords.
But there's something in mybrain signaling now that open a
chat the way you words, almosteveryone else in the world does.

(06:20):
And so you want to talk aboutbelow, and learning begin to
learn that I better wake up andbecome aware of some unseen
things around me, listening tothe universe, lean into my
difficulties. And I will tellyou that I will talk to round

(06:41):
for years with this boy, hiscondition, feeling less than
everyone else, and not speakingup when I should have. And yeah,
you know, these great peoplethat I've worked with, for so
believed in me, kept me going.
But I think, you know, lookingback on it, I wasted worrying.

(07:03):
And now I'm at a spot in life.
I'm retired now, which gave methe space to write this book
that I wrote. But all of asudden, I'm in this headspace,
where I've got more time tolisten to the unseen. And all of

(07:27):
a sudden, I'm like, You knowwhat happened anyway, I don't
even you know, almost very wellknown has said to me, you know,
once I get used to the cadenceof your voice, I can understand
everything that you're saying,right? I spend my sweet to her
husband says, I don't even hearthat anymore. You know, so,

(07:49):
there you go, I wasted a lot oftime worrying about something
that I should have just had,look, this is it. This is what
I've got. Everybody's gotsomething they're dragging
around with them. And so moveon. And you know, we're any
wasting time.

Lynn (08:07):
Well, you know, what I find really impressive is that
you said earlier, I didn't speakup, or I felt less than, and, as
you know, in the world that wecame from, and it's not just at
that organization, but manyorganizations, helping people,

(08:30):
especially women find theirvoice is a thing. Because
there's almost an a culture ofwe only want to hear your voice.
If your voice supports my ego ormy plan or my way of doing
things. And I think of the manyways that it those insecurities,

(08:54):
because that's all that is adeep insecurities are
interference to getting reallygood work done. And so I can
imagine how difficult it was inthat kind of environment. And it
sounds like you had a reallysupportive boss, though, to
physically lose your voice, notmetaphorically loosen and still

(09:17):
come through the other side?
What did you what kind ofstrength? Did you have to find
inside of yourself to be able todo that?

Mary (09:25):
Well, I didn't. And so, you know, I will share with you
that there were many times whenI was literally in a big
boardroom with all theexecutives that were my internal
clients or man, the championdevelopment group for the banks,
private bank. And so I wasresponsible for training for

(09:50):
1000 people, my team and I, andI was expected in post work
meetings. And I can remembermany times sitting there
thinking I don't think that'sright. Or I have a different
idea. But it was sointimidating. Being in that, you
know, 30 or New York in a WalnutRidge room in a leather chair

(10:16):
with a microphone in front ofme. I literally, like Roseanne
from Sam. Deanna. If it were toreverse the old Saturday Night
Live skit where she little girlin this gigantic chair, yes.
Watch run out of room. So, youknow, sometimes I didn't get
over it, quite frankly. Andthat's where my missed

(10:37):
opportunities. And I think if wecould chart my trajectory, yeah,
I did. Well, I ended up in techenough. Um, he Chris money. It
gave me freedom to do andexplore a lot of other things
later on in life and in even themoment, but I think I missed a
lot of opportunities. Wherethose would have taken me I

(10:59):
don't know, maybe it would havebeen, you know, bitch son wields
executive woman that squasheseveryone else? I don't really
know, I don't think I wouldn'tbe, I don't think I would have
made sure to what I alwaysbelieved is that I needed to be
a servant leader and take careof the people on my team.

(11:19):
Because by doing that, I knewthey would take care of me.
Yeah, but the long story shortis sometimes I did find my
voice. And a lot of times itdid. But I felt really, really
comfortable. Leading my team.
And I felt really comfortable,surround myself with good
people. And date, if I made amistake and brought someone on,

(11:44):
that wasn't working out. And inthat way, that team was what us
to sort of, you know, the worksSuper Bowl, your menu button, I
can remember the executiveoffice, to Hank, half the time.
walking up to me in a differentpoker gym, where I was leading

(12:06):
meeting, we were creating anexecutive program. And I just
remember walking up during thebreak and putting some arms and
shoulders and saying, you know,I think we have the best
training programs on the street.
And that's really pretty darngood. I think those sorts of

(12:27):
moments in my team put the windin my feels that when I did for
the the Tahoe, Jerome's, I wasable to go, Alright, I'm a
little bit humiliated andashamed of myself right now. But
if I don't myself up and moveon, there isn't going to be
anybody else magically swoopingin to do that in this world.

Lynn (12:52):
Again, you it sounds like you had an amazing team. And I
love hearing stories aboutpeople believing in each other
in an environment that is reallycan be cutthroat. Like you said
I could have become a bitch onwheels executive. And that was
an environment where there werebitch on wheels. I think I was

(13:12):
wondering. Like that, you know,I was, I had a podcast, actually
my last podcast, Julie Ripleytalked about two by four people.
Meaning that they kind of hitpeople over the head with the
two before and I think I was oneof those four people, too. And

(13:34):
yet, this is the, to me, this issort of the topic that I'm
finding very interesting isfinding those moments and those
Wake Up Calls. And yes, we haveour missed opportunities. We all
have those. We all have. Butit's those that actually end up
pointing us to this, what's atstake, to not miss other

(13:55):
opportunities? You know, but Ithink this is what we're about.
And it seems to me like you havea ton of resilience. And you
know, that in and of itself,your story of your voice would
be really book worthy. Butthat's not the book you ended up
writing. You had anotherchallenge that none of us want

(14:20):
to have to bring on a reason towrite a book, which I have read
cover to cover. I've readdifferent parts more than once.
I'll read it again, because ofthe kind of book it is. But
could you just say a little bitabout what made you choose to
write the story of losing yourson when he was just 20 years

(14:42):
old? Right,

Mary (14:44):
right. Yeah, the way that this began is obviously with a
tragedy. And in the beginning ofthe book, I give readers a real
honest window into that day,what happened? You know what we
think when on what we know andsome things we're never going to
know it we to reach the otherside. But um, you know, I have

(15:11):
after I lost my son, obviously Iwas utterly shattered. There are
any words for describing whatthat feels like because it's,
it's out of the natural order. Ihad lost uncle's, I had already
lost my dad, and all of that,although I didn't like it so

(15:33):
didn't appreciate it felt veryit was the natural order of the
way things go. But to losesomeone who is 31 years younger
than myself, and who is my onlychild in my heart. That was fear

(15:54):
theory theory Onyx did. And Ijust literally felt like I was
falling into an abyss, and therewas no put a hold, I just kept
falling and falling and falling.
And I would go through themotions after the funeral of you
know, I think thank you notes.

(16:17):
And I remember my mother oneday, to me, I have a writing
those notes just don't do that.
If you feel like I said, No, Ihave to do it. You know, so
there's this type A, me stilldoing what I needed to do. And
so I was going through themotions, but I honestly didn't
want to do anything. And thenthere were people, well
intentioned people saying, youknow, let's go to this grief

(16:41):
group, I'll take you or you needto go see how much it hurts to
hurt, you need to go tocounseling, or you need to, you
need to you need to that's likehappy. And I felt like you know
what, I don't need to do any ofthat. And I don't want to do any

(17:02):
bad. I just literally focused ontaking one breath at a time,
during the days. And there werethese these little voices or
synchronous things that wouldhappen. That would just kind of
give me strength too. You know,take another breath or one more.

(17:25):
Another. Mm hmm. And one day Imy phone rang, I was up in my
office. And I really wasn'texpected to go right back to
work. But yeah, there was thisexpectation to come right back
to work, because I was able,because this, as you know, is a
fast paced environment that weused to work in an array. And it

(17:49):
was that executive, my internalclient and falling behind this
big enterprise, this new doorinstead of happy to a kid. And I
said, you know, I'm really notdoing very well. And I said, I
just I don't I don't know whatto do nothing. There's nothing
that resonates with me rightnow. And he said, listen, he

(18:12):
said, You do what you need todo. Work if you feel like
working. Don't work if you don'tfeel like working. And I can
even remember in that poempiece, or to hear him say that
they can pull on ethnics, it isthe homework if you don't want

(18:34):
to work. That's actually right.
Right, or take as much time asyou need. No one says that
there's certain amounts of daysyou're allotted in bereavement.
But you know, I think that thiswas such a tragedy that people
could imagine what if that hadbeen me. And all of a sudden,

(18:55):
they weren't upgraded by theemployee manual anymore. And
they were creating promo. Andthat took a while hold with me.
And I remember glancing over atmy bookshelf, and an empty chair
at all. And I've always enjoyedwriting. I've always enjoyed

(19:16):
reading poets, learning, but Ipicked up that old journal, that
old blank journal and thought,You know what, I'm just gonna
start writing. And I beganwriting about those angels.
What's his thing that hassuddenly allowed me to take a
breath and feel maybe a pinpointof light and harmonize a hole?

(19:42):
And I began writing about theway that I felt. But maybe most
importantly, I began writingdown instances of where I was
experiencing what I thought werevery The old era me know that

(20:04):
had not gone up. He was skinny.
But I am alive. And I'm well,and I heard about you, I love
you. I'm still here. And it wasone of the most mind bending
instances, and happened over andover and over, it still happens.

(20:25):
And I'm biggest age, which isthe name of the book, nudge,
it's probably how I began thirdof my bloggie stuff and talking
about even some instances thathave happened recently sharing
those with people. You know,there's the manuscript is now

(20:46):
written. And it's published, andI'm adding on to the end of my
Word document. But I have beenout there for the world to see.
But, you know, you asked whatmade you write the books, or
along your journey, I literallywrote in the journal, um,
someday I need to publish this,and give this to others as a way

(21:09):
it helped them find a peace, theknow, hope and comfort was where
it all began.

Lynn (21:21):
Something you said at the beginning that, that I felt, as
you were just at the beginning,is isn't it? Funny how the world
goes on when our world stops?
Yeah. And you look around, andit's like, well, all your co

(21:42):
workers were still working, youhad a great client to say, take
your time, as opposed to theusual message, which I often
heard, I'm not sure they everactually said this, but I often
heard is, look, if you can't doit, we'll find somebody who
will. Yeah, yeah. And, but butthe, the thing that struck me is
in the middle of that you founda way to take a breath, one at a

(22:05):
time, take a step one at a time,somehow just keep putting one
foot in front of the other, whenyour world stopped, and the rest
of the world went on.

Mary (22:21):
Yeah, I literally remember looking out the window, and this
thing, and there would be youknow, blooms peach tree out my
window. And I'm like, What inthe world is that happening?
When I'm in utter misery. And Ijust know I'm throwing off all

(22:45):
this misery to anyone andeveryone orbit. And I in some
strange ways, I guess. I sort oflike, I wonder why I didn't stop
access because they hadn'tdevastating to me. And then
literally in my own orbit, and Iwrite about this a little bit in

(23:06):
the book, I was in taking myloved ones around me. My my
son's DevArt, who lived with usafter her after he passed,
literally curled up with alesion on the bridge of her
nose. Horses got an upperrespiratory ailments and you

(23:29):
know, they have that hope seeingis the reverse. And there's a
reason for that 99% of the time,is a really healthy and when
they're not really Nana. And soI just one of my cats turned up
with a major major kidneyinfection and ended up having to

(23:50):
be euthanized. And so I wasimpacting people in my orbit.
And what was so strange as yeteverything marched on. And the
people that were outside myimmediate orbit, were fine. They
were laughing, they were goingto dinner, they were making
money, they were doing theirwork, and everything was

(24:10):
continuing, hence it is but Iwas shattered. And another thing
that was very poignant for me isthere were those people in my
life that just knew were reallygoing to come through for me.
They were going to be theirtherapists say the right things.
They will lift me up and somehowmagically, I was going to be

(24:34):
alright. And guess what? Barelyone of those people that was on
that list in barely one of themcame through. Some of them
didn't even show up the funeral.
And some of them said thingslike, well, you're it's gotta be
rough losing. But I think of beeven more suited to your spouse.

(25:00):
Like what a stupid thing to say.
And then stranger out of theblue would come through. And
just give me, you know, fivewords that I could play into
that day that lifted my spiritallowed me to breathe allows me
to put one foot in front ofanother. Well, you never know.

(25:24):
So what?

Lynn (25:24):
What would that stranger say that lifted you? Because
I'm, I'm sitting here listeningwith both ears, because I've
been through a lot of grief. AndI've shared grief with friends.
And I've always wondered why canI do this any better than I do?
I'd like a better playbook, ifyou will. Yeah. To be the good
friend.

Mary (25:41):
Yes. Right. That's, it's a really good question, man. And I
don't actually think there is agood playbook. I think the only
playbook is to operate properly.
And if you have no words, youcan look that person up on it,
say, I just have no words, butI'm here with you. If you do
have something that comes inthrough your, through your soul,

(26:04):
or through that, you know,channel that we've all got, but
we've often unlearn how to use,and then go ahead and say it
even feels weird and awkward.
And you can practice it with,you know, I don't even know
where this is coming from. ButI'm just having this urge to say

(26:26):
this to you. Forgive me if it'snot, right, but I have to tell
you, I think just operating fromthe head that real people and
their real heart level is thebest thing that we can do.
Because, you know, we look atthe Hallmark greeting cards, and
a lot of them are really great,really nice. But you just know

(26:48):
where her son is. And so I say,listen, be bigger, and just be
honest, and let whatevermessages that are coming in to
you to through and give them agift.

Lynn (27:05):
So, you know, as I'm hearing you say that what's
coming to me is, it feels veryvulnerable sometimes to open our
heart. And yet, it also I'mhearing you say is that's where
the message will come through.
If it and, and it actually in away, is a form of I don't want
to use the word protection. Butif you can trust that your heart

(27:31):
will hear then you can be therein the way you intend to for
someone. Yeah.

Mary (27:39):
Even when we've got really itches, people, I think we cut
the ad is of I can tell you, Irespect you. And maybe he can
help you. And so this is a toughpassage, but I have to share

(27:59):
this with you doing if you nopoor really, you it's a gift.
Yeah, the day, it might not belike it right now I'm at my
peak, like I just punched youright in the gut. But I just
want you to know, that we're oncoming from is a place of care
of honesty, and wanting what'sbest for you. And I honestly

(28:24):
feel like if we really operateat that level, um, you know,
we're going to be in a goodplace. And, and I mean, that's
what pastors are trained to do.
And I wish we have morenegotiation going on world today
purposes. But the thing is, thatrarely works, you know,
overpowered somebody that onlyworks temporarily. It doesn't

(28:46):
change their hearts, it doesn't,you know, for operating model.
And so if we really want changein the world, if we really want
someone, I think the only way isthrough the heart and through
authenticity, and beingvulnerable ourselves out there.

Lynn (29:09):
You know, it's it, he brought up the idea of
ambassadors, and you know,fighting and so forth. And I
think about all the differentways, if you just look across
the landscape of our country inour world of people trying to
fight to get their power back.
And just that Senate says it'snot going to work because you're
fighting, and you're trying toget something back that you
never had. Because, you know,power. Power is something that

(29:32):
we have to share. And if youkeep playing the LeapFrog game
of I'm gonna get my power backand then you're gonna get your
power back and then I'm gonnaget my power back. It's just the
endless it's the endless wars.
And somehow it feels like a lotof people put the word justice
on it, and it it's just as maybeat a moment in time, but it

(29:52):
doesn't work long term. Right,right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's
incredibly insightful. I'mincredibly insightful. And I'm
thinking to the idea of, again,what it takes to open the heart?
And how, how do you practicekeeping your heart open when it

(30:14):
felt so broken?

Mary (30:18):
Yeah, you know, I don't think that there was a practice
at all. In the beginning, it wasthat feeling of almost like
being Alice in Wonderland andnever knowing when you're gonna
land where you're gonna land,but just next to her. And so all

(30:38):
I did was find a few littlelights. And I was, I don't even
know how I was looking them. Butit's almost as if you're being
hated. And all of a sudden, thebench is open, and there's a
breath of air that you can takethe house. Without it, you know,
I came to live in those earlydark days. You know, nowadays,

(31:01):
13 years, I've had the benefitof and I would say, you know,
it's the practices that we weaveinto our lives that make us a
little bit better of the worldand a little bit better of a

(31:22):
person for others, and a littlebit easier of a jury, our own
selves. And those are thingslike I read, I'm a voracious
reader. And I often show movies,but what I never do is I never
ever filled my mind with thingsthat, that that aren't at a

(31:47):
time. So you're gonna catch mewatching, you know, like, around
Halloween in particular, there'sa lot of, you know, movie
trailers for really awfulthings, you know, killing people
and terrify people. Meaning,like, I just don't take part in

(32:08):
things that aren't edifying.
Because I think it's always ourI think it's the lazy, old. And
like I heard on the news lastnight, Mark Zuckerberg was
testifying. And he said, Well,you know, there's no, no actual
evidence that social mediareally causes people to appeal

(32:33):
bullied, and to get to a pointof despair, where they take
their own lives. But then a fewminutes later, he turned around
and apologized and said, youknow, we're putting things in
place. And so, you know, that'slike talking about sides of your
mouth. Yes. He's on a tightrope. The name of your book,

(32:56):
yeah. Or subtitle of your book.
But but the fact of the matteris, is that deep down, he
absolutely knows that we areimpressionable beings. And so I
say, look to the light and bethe light in the world. And
don't don't taste darkness.
Don't don't bother with it. Imean, I don't know why Tinder

(33:21):
STR upon. But if it is, okay,but dabble instead of immerse if
you have to, and focus on thethings that are true and and
right, but are F hunting,because only then can we bring
about change in our own lives,and that can ripple out to those
around us and ultimately, theworld.

Lynn (33:45):
So accurate. And interestingly, I just realized,
as you were talking aboutZuckerberg and I saw his apology
yesterday, and I saw and notonly him but the people who are
grilling and we're also talkingout of both sides of their
mouth. Double Double tonguing iswhat I often have heard it
called the interesting thing, Iwas just coming back from a ski

(34:06):
vacation and I had a private skilesson who the instructor the
next day was going to be workingwith a Facebook muckety muck. It
wasn't Mark Zuckerberg, but hewouldn't tell me who. But it was
one of the top I say top five inthe organization. And he said
guess what, guess who doesn'thave Facebook? The top
executives, kids, right. Now, isthat not the evidence we need?

(34:30):
Yeah. I mean, he's not lettinghis children have the product
that they sell. I've often saidYou know, if you're going to be
in sales, you better eat yourown dog food.

Mary (34:42):
And really eat your own

Lynn (34:46):
whatever, you know, whatever it is that you're
providing, if you're not goingto provide it for yourself, you
know, it's been one of my thingsand you know, because I do a lot
of coaching and I asked peopleto do things like journal and
meditate and all kinds Havepractices. I have many, many,
many. But nothing. I've neverasked anybody to do something
that I hadn't tried out myselffirst. Because it's sort of like

(35:07):
I can't in good conscience askyou to do something that I
haven't put myself through.
Absolutely. Especially since alot of Stefan's people to do
they do feel like they've beenput through something. It's
like, oh, this is hard. It'slike, Yeah, I know. But you
can't do it. Yeah, yeah,exactly. Yeah. So and yet, of
course, I'm on Facebook, you'reon Facebook, you have a Facebook
page for your, for your book.

(35:30):
But what I have noticed is Ihave a really high quality feed,
I do not get any of thepolitical junk. I get ads
sometimes that I don't want,then I'll realize it's because I
stopped on something. Somebodyhad a pretty picture. And I'm
like, oh, now I'm gonna see thishappened recently, pillow ads, I
saw a pretty pillow. And nextthing I know, everybody's trying
to sell me pillows just becauseI stopped right most just

(35:53):
momentarily on a picture. Yeah.
But for the most part, I have apretty what I'd call a pretty
clean, pretty uplifting feed.
And I enjoy it, you know, when Iget to stay in touch with
friends that way, if it'spositive, but like you've talked
about is sort of that philosophyof garbage in garbage out?

Mary (36:11):
Well, that's right. And we can check off what we don't
like. And we can say, you know,I'm I'm unfriending you or I'm
deleting the post. And you know,now that I'm promoting the book
a lot on social media. Everycouple weeks, I will get someone
posing at some army. Oh, hey, Ilove your picture. And you seem

(36:37):
so nice. But you want to leave afriend? And I'm like, Are you
not reading that? We're talkingabout me losing my and
throughout the book, you know,talking about grief, 10? stuff?
And obviously, it's a pay cut.
So

Lynn (36:53):
it's not even a person? I think it's a bot, I think I
think those are robots.

Mary (36:58):
Yeah, so the good news is, we have the ability to filter
things. And sometimes things getin or unintended, and you just
have to work your way out ofthat. But that's kind of what I
was talking about a minute ago,is be selective in your bond
grade. In your activities, beselective, and people that you

(37:22):
surround yourself with, and thenhelp the ones you know, if they
want it, then you don't needand, and so I just hit Filter,
Filter Filter is a good way togo about your day. And I agree
with you, just this week. Orweek, can we both get up and we

(37:44):
spend one to two, I spent onehour you spend a little longer
than I do but 18 in the morning,and it's caring for the animals,
doing my workout and doing whatI set, or what I say is I think
my attention for the day. I haveone of those monkey minds. And

(38:04):
so I have a really hard timenext thing, but I believe in it.
And the way that I skirt into itis I will be there in a
meditative pose. And think aboutthe words that I'm setting for
the day. And often your wordslike joy and peace and
awareness, money, you know,things like that. And all this

(38:27):
does not go on and on. But I dothat. And then another thing
that I love to do is my skirtgratitude journal, it's in my
mind, I don't write it down. ButI really love to begin the day,
thinking about three things thatreally great yesterday. And I
can tell you that I neverstopped three that even I think

(38:52):
a really shitty day, I can findI have a dozen or more things
that I'm actually grateful for.
And there are some brands andplants that tells us when we
operate from that form of whatwas good, what was right. What
are my intentions for today, itgives our brain because the

(39:14):
booze is just getting of a more,or a glass of orange juice or
you know your big vitamin forthe day. And it's just a good
way to start things out.

Lynn (39:29):
I can't tell you how many times I've had people do some
form of a gratitude exercise.
And it's literally a pivot pointin their lives. Whether it's a
big one where I have them, youknow, write 100 things they're
grateful for. And they look atme like 100 And you know, they
get started and find out it'sactually not as hard as they
think it's gonna be or if it's apractice regularly, like you

(39:51):
said just three things which wenever stop it three. Because
once you sort of exercise thatmuscle of seeing what's there
And what you have an offeringyour gratitude for it, it feels
good. And you want to do more ofit.

Mary (40:06):
Yeah, yeah. No, no, not the thing that comes to mind is,
if you've got someone that youlike your ability, your and for
me, now that my husband and Iare both your herd, we're like
little relief together all dayevery day. But we give each

(40:27):
other space and when I'm feelinggrouchy which I can do that, I
mean, I, you know, I'd pay youto call you to coordinate
sunshiny roses. The truth is,you know, sometimes I just,
maybe I did, well, or, you know,maybe something didn't go my
way, the way. And what I reallylike to do is, I'll root for a

(40:51):
while, but I like to go to himand say, Hey, I don't want to
mess you up. I was grouchy thismorning, there's a reason behind
it. And you really didn't haveanything to do with it. Or if
you didn't, I'll say, you know,I just want to be honest with
you that when this happened,this is where you're, and it's
really nice. I'm coming out withthem, because it's where it's

(41:15):
most likely nominee. You justneed to pick him around. And
he's really good about justsaying, you know, okay, I
noticed that and I was a littlemad at you, or, Hey, I
appreciate that. And thank you,and I think you're great. Or,
you know, what, for me just offsomeone else that's willing to

(41:37):
be a dartboard for a littlewhile, can be lifting, and allow
you to just move beyondwhatever. Yeah.

Lynn (41:48):
Well talk about a transition, the retirement
transition, where two peoplewho've had busy lives, and, you
know, really enjoyed connectingor connecting more passing in
the night, if you will, becausemy husband and I were the same
way. We both used to travel alot. And now we're together a
lot. And that's a big transitionwhen you're with your spouse or
anybody all the time. You'regonna have your moments. Yeah,

Mary (42:12):
yeah. Yes, then after I love financial services, I'm
very lucky to be able to do it,when I was up on sort of really
orchestrated my own role ofelimination, I got a great
market edge. And he did mereally great. It was not the

(42:33):
institution at even a hypo, wasanother one. But I knew the
minute that I told my husband,that, you know, my role has been
eliminated. And I've done thathe would take maybe less than
five minutes to say, why don'tyou come into our business work
with me? And in about, you know,three minutes he did, and I

(42:55):
said, I knew you're gonna ask meto do that. And I need a couple
weeks to sort of turn it loosehands, but I think I'll tell you
that, and we own our own homeanti symmetry, you know, talk
about leaning into yourproblems. We got that in a
minute. But I was work and wewere just opening brand new

(43:16):
funeral home, and he had apublic armature hadn't figured
out, you know, like, wherethings were gonna go, or who was
gonna go where and so I got todo all of that I did our
marketing. And then little bylittle his score began coming in
there per day, because we woundup getting really busy. That led
me to getting my funeraldirectors, they said such 180

(43:40):
degree. But it was it was justan amazing experience. But not
only do that, who live withthis, man. Now, I worked with
him every day. And you and Iboth decided he was gonna be
box. So take an executive whohas been 41 years and past, you

(44:04):
know, not just fortune 500companies not talking the top.
person in an environment withonly five or six employees,
where she is listened to herhusband beat her boss. And so,
boy talk about another lifelesson. Now.

Lynn (44:25):
And I'm sorry, but also in a business. That is definitely a
very difficult business becauseyour business is ushering people
through the loss of a loved one.
Yeah, yeah. That's a tough one.
Yeah,

Mary (44:39):
yeah. And, you know, one, sorry about the dogs.

Lynn (44:43):
I'm not hearing

Mary (44:46):
the it's not for everyone.
Absolutely not. But we actuallyloved it. And so it's an honor
really and a hedge out Hit uppeople. And one of the things
that I always did is, when youhave someone, and they, they
lost one, you know, we knowabout it. And when you know what

(45:12):
time there is, oftentimes we doget information about it, but we
don't get a lot. And so we don'treally know who we're gonna be
talking with what your god whatthe circumstances were. But that
was time and I love to clean itto my intuition. And I was you
to ours, options, you know,what? real soft. Or maybe I

(45:33):
would say I'm feeling why weneeded massage music or tribal
or whatever. And it was soamazing that very often people
would walk in, or it was a 50Some people would walk in, I
knew I was gonna work with you.

(45:54):
Because when I'm done our songsthing, or our artists thing
about the half a sphere thatyou've created in here. And so
you know, yeah, and it's, it's alesson in leading into what your
whispers I call my whisperswhispers with us, rather than

(46:16):
being up in our heads. And Ineed this real quick here to eat
this folder, I need that folderI need that. You know, and the
hills can do the grass canpeople and leaders can do the
exact same thing. Just take aminute and just lean in Be
quiet, you never know what'sgoing to come up and nine times

(46:39):
out of 10, whatever does isgoing to be right even the
message of this, you need to runfrom this deal. You need to
remove this person or thatcircumstance or whatever, nine
times or more is going to beright.

Lynn (46:55):
That's a good, that's a good message for sure is
listening to the whispers andyou talked about the songs. You
had at least one story maybemore in your book about certain
songs coming on. That could onlyhave been a message from Aaron.
Yeah, yeah. Do you have a storyyou'd like to tell about?

Mary (47:16):
One right away? Um, I do like heavy, or class rock and a
little bit of the battle. But Inever listened to as he was
born. I like his white blot.
Yeah, like cool. But his musicjust wasn't anything that I
heard about. And so you know,maybe it was a year or months,

(47:38):
or Aaron asked, you know, thereare still lots of days more
gloomy, very hurts. And Iremember I was driving long, and
back, see him a lot in my mindair. You know, I really, really
missed a huge day. And all of asudden, I'm listening classic

(48:01):
rock. And it must have been anodd hour, because what I noticed
is only late at night, do theydelve into the heavy stuff?
Because otherwise, you know,it's gonna be something nice
that any of us know. And, youknow, we can say a lot. Oh,
awesome. It was on. And song ismama. Wow, it was just like

(48:26):
blown away. Because at thattime, and I talked a little bit
about this in that in the bookis I actually had this inane
belief that I could somehowbring Aaron back. Like,
literally bring him back andtalk about it just because your

(48:49):
sister ash heard of my brainover here, you know, I left and
then there's this right brainidea that, Oh, I could get him
back.

Lynn (49:03):
Well, you brought him here the first time. So surely I
could do it again, right?

Mary (49:08):
Or another and, you know, for me to articulate what that
really meant me. But I sure itwas doing my darndest. And I'm
grateful that I've journaledeven you know, Sarah, not school
is the things that I wasthinking about. Because
otherwise I really would nothave remembered him at all. In

(49:29):
fact, when I was writing thebook, I would come across things
and go, wouldn't have everremembered that story. And I
wrote that down because thatreally did happen by George and
I'm glad she brought thatreminder that it wasn't just
wow, that we had shinies butyeah, a lot of us it hidden away

(49:50):
and let me know that. Yeah. Thatcouldn't have been enough. And
there was one just the other daythat I'd love to share. here.
Yeah. My husband and I, hisname's Dean on and I love to
watch Jeopardy nights.

Lynn (50:09):
I do. I love Jeopardy.

Mary (50:12):
dearly. I really don't like 99% of our vision. It's my
cats really about what I watchand what I imbibed minutes. It's
gonna watch Jeopardy and hesaid, it just arena it's too
much for me it's going to helpfor

Lynn (50:33):
telling you that happens exactly at my house. We have a
hot tub, and my husband doesn'twant to watch Jeopardy. So he's
like, I'm gonna go to the hottub while you watch Jeopardy.
Okay, yeah,

Mary (50:41):
exactly. So about 40 minutes later, I realized that
he had come in so I and I said,are you alright? The punters got
in the beginning are like, Oh,by now. And he said, You know, I
am alright. I'm just being outhere looking at ours. And I was

(51:02):
talking with Aaron and mom. Andand his mom's gone. And I said,
Well, what specifically we weretalking about. And he said, You
know, I just think I'd reallylove to hear from them. And they
always talk to you, but I'dreally like him to talk to me.
And I said, Well, just watch andbe open. And that's really nice.

(51:26):
I think that you're doing that.
And I said, I'm gonna go to bedand read now. And he said, All
right, I'll be in in a minute.
Well, human element, and he waslike, you know, yet and I don't
feel like reading. I'm gonna gowatch one of our programs in the
living room while you read. Isaid, All right. That was great.

(51:46):
I resumed reading my book. Nottwo minutes late. You're
awesome. Volume on the TV isloud, that anyone mile away
should have been able to hearit. Wow. And I hear one sentence
at once. Hence, only and it waslittle Aaron will not stop.

Lynn (52:12):
Why a TV said that

Mary (52:14):
the TV bombed out little Aaron will not stop talking. Now
remember, my husband had justsaid Aaron. Want me to be? And
I'm yelling from bedroom. Dan.
Dan, come here. Come here. Idon't know why I didn't get up.
And he goes, I'm sorry, Mayor. Iwasn't even holding controller.
I don't know why you went uplike that. I said, Come here

(52:37):
right now. Like I'm talkingNice. Didn't you hear what was?
And he said no. And I told him,he goes all night. And I'm like,
Yeah, that was for you. You knowhow? I mean? How could you

(52:58):
expect anything any greater thanto be shouted a hat? Yeah.
Right.
Alright, sorry about that. I wasasked a couple weeks ago. And

(53:21):
the guy said to me, you know, ifyour dog's bark, nice, don't
worry about it. Becauselisteners see that pain like
that it makes everything I'mlike, Okay.

Lynn (53:36):
Well, and it does happen, my dog I have. When we built our
house, we had the originalhouse, which we now call our
guest house and then we built ahouse of a full house to go with
it. My dog is in the otherhouse, because she's an 18 month
old puppy. And if she's not withme, she's going to scream and
cry and beg to be with me. Andif she is with me, sometimes

(53:59):
it's just too hard to hold agood long conversation without
some kind of interruption. Youknow, eating a roll of toilet
paper. The last thing she tookdown was my iPod or my air air
pods. She ate the case. But sheshopped on the case for that
just having a puppy so yeah, butthis is real life so and

(54:20):
everybody that has dogscompletely understand. But what
a story I can't believe in thatshort amount of time that showed
up on his show that loud enoughfor you to hear. Because I'm
guessing if y'all are like weare and I sometimes go read
while he's watching TV or viceversa, we try to you know, we

(54:40):
try to be respectful of thevolume.

Mary (54:42):
Right? Right. And that was what I'm talking about. He's
like, number one if thecontroller wasn't even in my
mind, to I'm sorry, I'm justeverything. The volume down and
I'm like, That's not you hearthat?

Lynn (55:00):
Yeah, you know, I actually keep a note on my phone, I call
it God winks. And on ourpodcast, my podcast with Anna
20, who is a phenomenal animalcommunicator, and has really
taught me a lot about learninghow to pay attention to signals.
And recognizing the things thatwe thought were not anything are
actually signals. We talkedabout, she calls them God links

(55:22):
as well, we, I have a note in myphone that I keep of these
different moments so that Idon't lose track. Because unlike
you, if you journal, yourstories, first of all, your book
would be very different, becauseyou wouldn't have had those
journal entries to include inyour book. But more importantly,
you wouldn't have had the trackrecord or the history because

(55:43):
those are like drips in a way.
And one of the analogies I oftenuse about things we think of are
small is like, well, you think adrip of water is small, but put
a bucket under the faucet leave,and come back in a couple hours
and you will have a gallon ofwater. Right? All right. And it
looks like it's nothing becauseit was one drip at a time. But
in a way, your story. Becauseyou captured it makes me feel

(56:05):
like you chose to have not justa gallon of water, but like a
whole, like memories of yourson.

Mary (56:16):
Yeah, yeah. Um, and I'm, like I said, I'm glad I wrote
down. And I'm glad that I wasglad to do the journaling, which
really made made me lean intothe journey. And, you know, I
recently wrote, I think it's onon Facebook page, that Oh, my

(56:38):
people want to curl up in ball.
And a lot of people do want togo to the group group, do who
wants to go. And I don't stay,do what feels right to you. If
you're going to have any time inyour life, that anyone else is
going to give you a license todo it in a situation where you

(56:58):
are really, you know, bereaved,to the ultimate extent. And for
me, I guess it just meantleaning into the journey.
Because I guess I had no I hadto explore it. I didn't want to
run from it. It didn't feelright for me yet. So ultimately,

(57:20):
what became a bit is what Iconsider to be mine and Aaron's
gift to others to give them thatcomfort, that hope and that
peace. Because I've had peopleliterally from the United
Kingdom, Africa, New Zealand andall over the US to be, you know,

(57:46):
but I laughs Israel, and I havedecided I'm making some live
changes, and 99% of them haveabsolutely nothing to do with
cleaning up. Now I have peoplesay, I'm going to be more
vulnerable, and less JEDEC I'mgonna change my rear and do

(58:11):
something I've always wanted todo. Now, did I give that
specific advice? No. But withinthe books covers my hyper it's
the best experiences andcollection of beautiful words
that came to me in my journey atthe Wrights worst park, or light

(58:34):
for others journeys. And that'sthe best that I have ever, or
work. That

Lynn (58:47):
is the that is truly the gift of your work. I was gonna
ask you that very question. Howhas it How have you known about
ways it has impacted othersbecause I read it and set it was
such a it is such a vulnerable,hopeful piece. And I believe
that's the part that a lot ofpeople might miss. And it

(59:07):
actually at first I was a littlenervous to read your book.
Because I knew it was going tobe sad. And I cry when I read
sad things and it's like Okay, Igotta pick times when I can cry.
But But I really what reallystruck me was your willingness
to enter the journey. Warts andall knowing that it was not

(59:32):
there was no there was norainbows and butterflies here.
But you're you were choosing toenter it either way and with and
with an open heart and I believethat your story has to have
touched a lot of people.

Mary (59:46):
Yeah, you know, really hope it will continue to do
that. And that as more peoplelearn about it, I've been told
that people have gifted peopleI'm

Lynn (01:00:00):
sure

Mary (01:00:01):
and in fact, I've been asked, you know, how do I know
when it's right to give it tothem? And my answer is, there's
no way for you to know. But whatthere is a way for you to do is
to only good intention, I knowyou talk a lot about good
attention is going ahead andgifted and say, Read this. If

(01:00:24):
and when you feel that open itup, because it may just have
your attorney midpines comfortand peace. And that way, you're
allowing the, the recipient tomake those decisions. And you're
just giving prominence. Right.
And I've had books that have saton for many years, and all

(01:00:48):
sudden, I went to read them.
Recently, someone gifted me abook. And I was a little
disappointed, because I've readit before, but I committed
charset, but I'm gonna look atit again. I opened it up. And
man, that book transported meand it was the right thing. And

(01:01:10):
so just, you know, include thatlittle message This is for if
and when

Lynn (01:01:17):
you know a lot of the books that are on my bookshelf
fit that exact category,sometimes I I'll go a few years
before I read them, or I recallone in a particular case, very
similar to yours, where I heardabout this book on a podcast.
And so I bought it, and I readit. And then I actually found it
in my stack of books that Imoved. I put some good readings

(01:01:40):
and the place where my coachingclients come stay when they come
to a retreat with me. And Ilooked down and I said, Oh my
gosh, I had this book and hadalready read it. But the second
rating was different than thefirst because we're change. Yes,
yes. And so you're exactlyright. I'm curious, do you have

(01:02:00):
the book available for yourpeople that come through your
funeral home? Is it somethingthat you offer? Yeah,

Mary (01:02:07):
to them? Yes. Hello, it is hoped there. And I've got some
bookmarks that if people want tograb a bookmark and order the
book, they can do that. But Dan,and I actually sold a home in
June of last year. Oh, I havetwo friends and colleagues of

(01:02:28):
mine that were both at the bankyou and I worked at and the way
the financial institution I mostrecently left. And they too
decided that they wanted to getinvolved in this business then
Boy, talk about the universeworking out, fill up another
list, the way that that haveworked out but yes, they do have

(01:02:52):
the book available there. Andyou know, if anyone feels loved
to order it, they can do so. Butthere's

Lynn (01:03:00):
Yeah, well, that's very different. Especially if it's
not yours. You know, it's notyour your funeral home anymore.
I hadn't I don't know how Imissed that. But I didn't
realize you all were no longerso you're truly fully retired
now.

Mary (01:03:13):
Right? And so I spent Hearst nine no minutes, writing
the book, learning aboutpublishing, losing a publisher,
and then getting it launched.
And then after that working onmy launch plan, because of
course, there is no gal or guythat left corporate America that

(01:03:38):
wouldn't have to pay him forright once it's out there now
and I'm gonna get to you know,approach I'm working on a friend
of mine. Yes, today is anaficionado of my book. And she's
a great supporter. I said, Well,this isn't fun anymore. I'm just

(01:03:58):
not going to do it. But I stillfeel like it's got a lot of
runway to reach the heart. Mind.
People read it. And so I'm stillin their batting every single
day.

Lynn (01:04:11):
Yeah, that's, this is the thing about writing a book. To
me, the tightrope that we walkas authors who want to market
and sell a book is how to reachthe people we wrote it for,
because we know it has somethingto offer them without getting

(01:04:33):
caught up in the need to havebook sales, right to think
nobody wants to hear what wehave to say those two things are
like almost two ends of acontinuum. And the tightrope is
there are people that need yourbook, and your job is to make
sure that they find your bookbecause it has something to

(01:04:54):
offer them. Yes,

Mary (01:04:56):
yes. Then, you know, there we go. Who is that? negative
mind that I think we learn, Idon't think we inch who our
lives. His thing that negativemind chatter, but And you talk
about this a little bit in yourbook, I did learn from others
that when they say, Well, yourdrawing is bad, or they laugh at

(01:05:20):
you, or something you did, thenall sudden, we learn how the
embarrass, and in authentic andall of this stuff. And all of a
sudden, we're so full of garbageall over us that it's fine, that

(01:05:40):
that real golden nugget that isthat we possessed when we came
into this world, it is there.
But we have to unlearn a lot ofthe things that we learned in
order to get back at it. And wecan keep the beautiful things
that we've learned. But justkind of unlearning those
negative voices. And I removeone of those obstacles, almost

(01:06:03):
right out of the gates with thebook because I too was like, I
feel if when I'm promoting thisbook that people are gonna think
it's just, you know, money,money, money. And so I said,
Well, I'm just gonna give awayall the proceeds. Because I can
think of a lot of worthycharities that will be really

(01:06:23):
happy to have money from me andAaron. And, you know, I did my
vision board and the highest myintention for you know, how this
was gonna go. And I, I, I'mgonna have fun with it. I'm
going to go with an open handand open and an open mind. And

(01:06:44):
so if I had to learn how to bealright, with rejection, is that
does happen. Uh huh. But there'spure that rejected than say,
thank you. And so when it's arejection, I just, you know,
sweep it away and say not now.

(01:07:07):
Because I know you're probablyfamiliar with the disk model. So
I'm raging D, everything isbelow the line. Other than T and
so no means maybe. Me. And yeah,yes. Right. Yeah.

Lynn (01:07:27):
It's I love I was just talking to somebody the other
day about the disc model. Ireally do like the disc model.
And you should, just for thoselistening who don't know, at
least give the four letter, youknow, what the four letters of
the disc mean, so people can geta feel like it's not Myers
Briggs. It's a different way ofassessing our personalities. But
the D stands for a dominantpersonality fabric. Yes,

(01:07:49):
correct. And remind me what theI Am.

Mary (01:07:52):
I don't remember what the word for it is right now. But
it's like, the golden retrieverperson who's like, I love
everyone, you know, in an insidesmile, it would be the yellow.
Yeah. You know, people oriented.
And then the S is peopleoriented, but they're the
sensitive one that they wouldnever dream for hurting your

(01:08:15):
feelings. And they might tellyou one thing to tell me another
thing and in there, they're bothright. But they're 180 degrees
opposite but they're doing itbecause they don't want to hurt
your feelings. He is the reallycompassionate has, you know, the
accountant who gets like everynumber, right? And every letter

(01:08:36):
has to be right. And unlesseverything is right, we're not
moving forward. Remember wherewe use the word we would go with
90% solutions so that that Deanhas only pet it and she's my
personal toad. Yeah. All around.

(01:08:57):
They're like, I love this. Whowants down and I'm working him.
Yeah,

Lynn (01:09:01):
well, that that I was a high D and a high i, i I've
looked it up. Now. Its dominanceinfluence. steadiness and
conscientiousness are theirwords, and you did a beautiful
job of describing them. And thething about the way if you get a
DISC profile is they do like anarrative. And it's like reading
back your life. Like thosethings are so friggin accurate.
It's like, Lynn does this andLynn does that. It's like, how

(01:09:24):
has somebody been over myshoulder and watching my work?
Because this is freaky. It'sthat accurate? But yeah, having
a plan, getting things done.
It's interesting because I madea very deliberate choice. I
looked at you know, how to do abook launch and you know, even a
book tour and had theopportunity to withheld because
I self published so I didn'thave a publisher behind me. So

(01:09:46):
you know, what would it looklike to really get out and put
this book out and I'm veryinterested in being on podcast
but not interested in travelingto be on TV shows, even if it
was to go to New York orwhatever, because it's like,
that is not I started looking atwhat my calendar would look
like. And I was like, oh, no,that's not the life I want.
Yeah, yeah, I don't want to beon airplanes, especially to have

(01:10:09):
to do an entire day or two daytrip or three minutes on TV.
Because that's not where I amright now. And I'm not trying to
sell that many books. I justwant the right people to get it
in their hands. And honestly, Idon't think there's that many
people. I mean, I'm sure there'ssome that are watching TV that
need to have my book, but I'mbetter with corporate groups.
And I have had a lot of peoplebuy the book for whole teams.

(01:10:29):
Yeah, it's like, that's the wayit needs to go for me. Yeah,
there you go. So, anyway, yeah.
So back to your plan. So you dida vision board? Was it for this?
Or was it for your life? Whatwas the like, what was yours?
For your vision

Mary (01:10:46):
is very, the book and I added something to it just this
morning, and I would like toread it to you, if you don't
mind, please. You know, itreally keys in to where we
began. And maybe a sort of goodplace, you know, to bring, bring
our conversation now. And it is,with the power of the universe

(01:11:13):
at our fingertips, let us moveforward with courage and grace,
knowing that we are supported bypurposes, in and unseen, made
this moment be called withblessings, miracles, and moments

(01:11:33):
of profound connection. Did youwrite that? No, I did not know
beautiful. That is somebody thatgave me permission to do some
extensive voting in my book. Andit's a woman named Rosemary off.
And she wrote the book, theeagle in the Rose, it's on the

(01:11:55):
recommended list at the back.
And I get an occasionalnewsletter from her. And, you
know, I opened that up thismorning. And I was like, well,
well, well, doesn't thatresonate. And so that right into
the center of this vision board,but yeah, the vision board is
really just for the book. SoI've done my vision boards, and
I do mini ones. This is mywishing, Vision box, your list,

(01:12:19):
I love it. But in the air, Iwrite things that are my
attentions, and some of theseold like, I'm looking at one
from cheap house. And when youwant, and one of the things I'm
reading is that Santosretirement boom, we can check it
out off the list, because youit's really neat to do things

(01:12:43):
like that you can save a littlepictures in there. I'm just a
believer that if we do somethorough intentions, and back,
watch the universe go to work,we might just be really
delighted by what happens.

Lynn (01:13:01):
I believe that so incredibly, and have you know, I
began running vision boardworkshops in 2016. And I now
mostly don't run them for thepublic, I only run them. And
when I say run them, I onlyinclude them when I'm doing
usually a retreat with people.
Because I like to wrap otherthings around, especially that

(01:13:22):
word you use courage and grace.
And I believe we are born withcourage and that stuff. You
talked about the negativechatter, the interference, the
stuff that gets put on us. Ithink it hides our courage from
us sometimes. And a lot of timespeople will say they want more

(01:13:43):
confidence. And I say, Well, youhave to start with courage.
Because courage you have to act,not necessarily knowing the
outcome. But you've got to moveanyway, which to me is the
epitome of your journey. You hadno idea how you were going to
move through this. But you knowI am so I so believe that if we

(01:14:04):
will give ourselves I know itdoesn't have to be a vision
board per se, that's a that's aform factor. But if we give
ourselves the ability to createour lives, if we say to
ourselves, I can set direction,I have the right to put down my
intentions like you've put inyour box about retirement or you

(01:14:27):
know, I've even had a visionboard thing happen where I got
exactly the boat that was on thepicture of the vision board. I
have I from what I can telleveryone I've taken through the
process finds that their visioncomes out almost precisely as
they expected and often soonerthan they ever dreamed it could.

(01:14:48):
And it's not because it's somekind of magic formula. It's that
having that courage to ask andto believe and to listen and to
notice the help. We're getting

Mary (01:15:00):
Yeah, you know, recently, people reach out to me all the
time. And a lot of times, it'sthrough social media, and maybe
it's an I am or even maybe it'sa response to something that I,
and I've had people say, I lovethat you get those nudges. And

(01:15:23):
that was just really visceralreminders that Aaron took around
all of that, but you know, Ilost him. And so it's been X
number of months, three years.
And when will I see the signs,and you can just almost peel PE,
in their words. And what Ialways say is just, you know,

(01:15:43):
what, just to ask, because Ialmost feel like they probably
are already letting you knowthat they're there. But your
mind might be saying, you know,I'm gonna let that be buried, or
I'm just going to disk, thatthat's not really for me, or
that doesn't mean anything, orbeing fantastical by thinking it

(01:16:05):
just just be open. But moreover,ask because they can hear you.
And I also believe we all haveguides. On other side, you know,
every major Jim has in someform, or fashion that believe,
yeah, I was raised Catholic andall that I have a guardian

(01:16:29):
angel. And as I'm delved intomany other religions and looked
at them, you know, cuz I'm atruth seeker. And I'd like to
know things. I like tounderstand things, and I like to
understand other people'sperspectives. But I believe that
we do have guardian angels orspirit guides. And so there's
nothing wrong with communicatingwith them, or its staff feeling

(01:16:52):
like this, or I sure could useyour help with that. And then
just perhaps with it, but beinghere to be open handed to
because, you know, sometimes wedon't get what we want. In an
instance, sometimes we don't getwhat we think we want, because
it isn't the right thing for us.

(01:17:14):
So

Lynn (01:17:16):
yes. And, you know, sometimes you have it and don't
even realize you have it. Youknow, that's there's so many
ways, and I have no questionabout having guides, guardian
angels, I have things happen,where it's like, something
almost moved me out of the wayof harm's way, at times or

(01:17:38):
something along those lines.
And, you know, I occasionallyI've even felt like they were
wrapping me in their arms,almost, I could almost feel the
hug.

Mary (01:17:47):
Yeah, yeah. So I had a very visceral one years ago. And
my husband never listens tothis, but when I've never um,
you know, there was somethingdeep in my soul that this is
really not the right one foryou. But up here in my, I was

(01:18:11):
like, Well, you know, he fitsthe picture her that Colin hit,
and his words are told me thathe's, you know, everything that
I was looking for. But almostimmediately, I began having
these really weird nightmareswhen he was sleeping with me.
And they continued throughoutour marriage, and they were

(01:18:33):
always these like, really awfullooking beast. I remember the
very first time that spent thenight with him, and they wanted
his dreams and waking up fromit. 100% Knowing it emanated
from him, not that it was like,satanic but that he was wrong.

(01:18:57):
For me. There was a barrier thatwas, you know, attempting to
beat that out, but I ignored it.
And through art much has hurt 18year marriage. This continued to
happen. And on our 13thanniversary, we went to the
mountains. Visiting a mutualfriend of ours Kathy was mutual.

(01:19:19):
Yeah.

Lynn (01:19:23):
Janine, she's, she's Kathy's been on this podcast?
Yes.

Mary (01:19:26):
And so I was staying with a mutual friend Jeanine, who I
write about Buck who is pulledover recently that I was staying
with her. And that night Iremember waking up from this
dream where I was being likeIndian in one of those real long

(01:19:46):
walks. Dress in this India waslike literally flying in the
room right above my face. Andwhen I woke up, I could still
see what I I just opened myawareness, you know, coming into
the present, and just being outbreath waking my husband about

(01:20:09):
and he's like, it's just a dreamgo back to sleep. Well,
literally days later, I foundout that he was involved in
something that ultimately justfinally broke our marriage. And
later on in talking with someoneand share with them, this woman

(01:20:30):
said, that was your spiritguide. They have been trying to
all these years, but youwouldn't listen.

Lynn (01:20:41):
Why what a wake up call?
Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, I mean,if there's anything that people
should be taking away from thisconversation, it is start paying
attention to the things that youmight be getting whispers like,
listen for the whispers. Yeah,sort of what I'm picking up is,

(01:21:01):
because, and note and notice thecoincidences like don't just
write them off. You know, notunlike your, you're reaching out
for me, it was not a coincidencethat you reached out to me at
exactly the right moment. Yeah.
For us to have thisconversation.

Mary (01:21:20):
Yeah. And you know, what, when I really even thinking
about Mom, it wasn't thinking, Iwonder why she has reached out
to me. It was just in themoment, I went, Oh, I have just
been booked for one in March.
And I kind of liked to do one amonth. And I've done, you know,
three or four others. And thisopening in February, and you

(01:21:42):
much said, Well, what about yourthirst I just needed a lot and
already very serendipitous, andeverything. If I may just want
to go back for a second. Yeah, Iwould imagine a lot of your
listeners are corporateindividuals, and they live in a

(01:22:03):
very past he is very black.
We're all that demands metrics,then it demands you know, proven
performance. So are you aren'tgoing to be around for a while.
But what I will say is that whatI've seen over the years is that
these major corporations aremore and more and more open to

(01:22:29):
kind of tilting their head andgoing well, wait a minute, there
is more limits than just theblack, white. And I had some
executive ed programs at Whartonat University of Pennsylvania,
we would bring in some amazingspeakers who like literally
would have us lie on the floor,learning how to meditate and

(01:22:51):
learn how to get out of ourheads isn't into her hurts. The
next day, you know, we might betalking about alpha for your
portfolio, or, you know,creating, you know, a socially,
that's legal. That's what I'msaying is, I think that these
things live side by side. And infact, if we open ourselves up to

(01:23:16):
the hands in and lean a littlebit more into our intuition or
vulnerability and ourauthenticity, I think that can
carry us to, you know, ledgethat we haven't been able to
jump up on previously with allour metrics. And, you know, our
suits are cops for our big taps.
And, you know,

Lynn (01:23:42):
you, I have found the same loosening of the grip, if you
will, and my work over theyears, because I still work with
companies and people in thecorporate world. And one of the
things that I've many timesasked my clients, whether it's
in a retreat, or in one on oneis, you know, how important are

(01:24:05):
relationships, decisions andcreativity to your success. And
I've yet to meet somebody thatdidn't have all three of those
things being well north of 50%.
And relationships, good onesrequire connection and
connection requires operatingfrom the heart. You know, our
decisions, we often want to beable to follow our gut, what

(01:24:29):
you're talking about is arefined ability to follow your
gut. Because if you're payingattention to the unseen in a way
that's sort of calibrated tounderstand what's really there,
you're not you don't have toworry about operating out of
fear because you've calibratedyour gut to be a good read, not
a fearful read. And decisions.

(01:24:53):
Almost all of us need good gutreactions for our decisions. And
of course in creativity We needto be able to think of things
that hadn't been thought ofbefore and connect dots that
hadn't been connected before.
Right? Yeah. So, you know,you're you just you and I are
kind of making the business casefor opening our eyes to not just
the left brain world, but theright brain world.

Mary (01:25:19):
Mm, yeah. Yeah. People know me, I think, which I think
can be a very typical of job,people, unless you're doing what
you love. And so that's when itbecomes, wait a second, I'm in
here, helping you doing you amajor makeover. And first and

(01:25:43):
foremost, it's really importantoperate from that, that space
up, you know, eat oil, or alittle differently earlier. But
if you really don't believe inwhat you're saying, and what
you're doing, I would suggestyou begin exploring a way to get

(01:26:04):
aligned with something where,you know, you've people like
honored and really urge the bodyor someone to do whatever it is
that you're selling, or offeringor doing. And then go in with
kind of an open feeling aboutit, which is, you know, look, if

(01:26:24):
this is not aligned, or thisisn't what you want. I'm good
with that. In fact, here home,when we were doing free needs,
which is arranging your end oflife services and arrangements
before you ever need them, whichI highly recommend everyone do.
Because you're thinking you'renot operating on the motion

(01:26:46):
where a provider can takeadvantage of view, which is what
we hated when we went into thebusiness, because we knew what
it was like to be on the otherside of the desk, and to be
emotionally vulnerable. And I'mnot saying anyone took advantage
of us, but we do know that it'srampant in a lot of industries.

(01:27:07):
But to go into the half, youknow, kind of conversation with,
it's alright, if you don't dobusiness with me, like I have
people who would wantcandidates, hey, no, I'm not
gonna buy anything. Today, I'mhere to learn, I would say I am
so glad that you're here tolearn, I'm you do this the way
you want to do it. And when youdo it with me, or you walk out

(01:27:31):
with treats into it, you know,miles down the road, I don't
care to do it, because I knowwhat's going to help you and
your heirs in the long run. Andso if we can operate from, you
know, kind of that opening handopen heart open mind. And just
be really honest with the hooks.
We will do business in spadesbecause I don't even remember

(01:27:53):
anyone made that proclamationwhen this happened. I will go
into the folder, and save. Sowe've got everything that you
want. Now you know the price andstuff are. And if you find, I'll
give you always paperwork, andyou can go on how I think about
it. And then you can call mewhen you want to come back if

(01:28:16):
you want to come back. And Ithink every single person said
well, I don't know why I wouldjust do this right now. I
actually don't either. But Iwant to honor what you said when
you came in. There's no reasonnot to. And there's no house
hack for you to hit now, there'san app, so you don't have to put

(01:28:36):
another appointment and come on.

Lynn (01:28:40):
Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. I was just thinking I
would love to be sitting acrossfrom you in a conversation like
that. Because you just feel likeyou're in the hands of someone
who cares. And isn't trying totake advantage and isn't trying
to screw you. And I think wespend a lot of time. And I have
a particular hot button aboutfeeling like I'm being taken

(01:29:02):
advantage of. I don't do well,when I feel like somebody's
trying to take advantage of me.
Yeah,

Mary (01:29:07):
yeah, he would not. I sorry. I sent a D on the desk.

Lynn (01:29:13):
Oh, I didn't know it on the desk, but not exactly.
options. And

Mary (01:29:18):
you know, so anyway, we can talk about

Lynn (01:29:22):
how her day all day long, right. But that's another that's
another one of those thingswhere people are asked, you
know, to show up, especially ifyou have a sales job. I have a
couple of clients who have bigsales jobs. And what I have
found is that their ability tosort of read into what their
clients need, and it's oftenthrough hints, not through

(01:29:44):
direct requests. Like to me thebest salespeople are the ones
who are very good at readingbetween the lines, and truly
understanding what their clientsare up against and offering what
it is that they really need. Notnecessarily what they
specifically No need, if thatmakes sense?

Mary (01:30:01):
Well, that's right. And you know what, even for people
that really aren't good atreading, leave alone. It's,
there's another method. And thatis just ask questions. Sure, you
know, get over at the funeralhome, people don't realize what
I'm curious about how optionswork and Blackplanet, to the

(01:30:23):
most simple, inexpensive to themost elaborate thing that you
can imagine if you could haveyour pre made shot up into
space. You know, a giganticmuscle, we haven't become any
buried with you. But what I'malways say is just begin by
getting to know people askquestions, and do it from a

(01:30:46):
place of sincerity. I reallywant to get to know you. There's
a lot of options. What were youthinking?

Lynn (01:30:53):
That's really,

Mary (01:30:53):
where's your mind right now? Once they began kicking me
down, then I can open up all thedoors on App down a different
one, there's a whole set ofdifferent doors on there. At the
end of the day, you choose thethings you want, and then I'll
put it together for you. Youwant, you can make changes later

(01:31:15):
if you change your mind.

Lynn (01:31:18):
That's beautiful. Yeah, everybody wants that. Everybody
wants that? Well, I have Iwould, I would love to hear as
we come to a close, what do youwhat you would say to someone
who is in grief. And I know thelong the longer I've lived on
this earth? I think one of thetrade offs, frankly, for living

(01:31:41):
longer is you're going to havemore grief. Yeah. Not always
necessarily through losing achild as you did. But, but some
people have lost children. Butalso just sort of one of the
honors of staying on this planelonger is that we are going to
lose people. Yeah. How would youguide someone, as they enter

(01:32:06):
this part of their lives ofknowing grief is going to be a
normal part of it. What do yousay to them?

Mary (01:32:12):
Well, I think it's different to someone who is
already in CO helped in grief,versus people who, you know,
sort of are vaguely aware, butreally thought a lot about the
fact that you will experience asignificant grief in your life.
I mean, it'd be rare to everencounter a human that did not.

(01:32:40):
Or maybe they were just lucky tobe the last, or the the one that
died, perhaps I don't know. ButBut most people are going to
experience create, I guess whatI would say is that, you know,
in our country, we don't doreally any preparation, we want
to sort of brush off and act asif we're, you know, we're not

(01:33:04):
vulnerable to ailments and youknow, it's never going to happen
to us. And so, I would say firstof all, for the most folks, um,
it is an inevitability. And Imight even suggest, you know,
doing some research and readinga book, maybe it's my, maybe
it's my Ross has Dwight Packard.
Yeah, I don't recommend fivestages of dying. I can, it's

(01:33:29):
good work. But Kubler Ross hismagnum opus, as far as I'm
concerned, is a very shortessay, a book written by her
called life after death, bliss,I think it's called you can find
it even with the post, if not100%. Right. But it's just her

(01:33:49):
authentic writings about workthat she did when she wasn't and
the most amazing things thathappened and I absolutely
recommend that

Lynn (01:34:04):
book. And so and so could you say that book again? I'm not
sure I've got the

Mary (01:34:07):
whole life after death by Elisabeth Kubler Ross.

Lynn (01:34:11):
Elisabeth Kubler Ross is quite good. Yeah, yeah, after
putting

Mary (01:34:15):
over the five stages of grief and death and dying, and
that's good work, but I wouldsay because this little s, okay,
do that. And so get should getfamiliar with it. Because I'm
telling you, it's, it's gonnahappen to you, someone that you
love will die for you and youwill be faced with something

(01:34:37):
that you haven't thought about.
That's the reality of life onher, but to somebody is
grieving. You know, I'm gonna goback to what we had a while
back, which is just beauthentic. And if you don't have
words, you know, you can walk upand sit and just say, I just
have no more hurts what you'regoing right now? I'm not sure

(01:35:00):
not year, and I'm hurting youare hurt. And but if you do have
words, you know, if you say, Idon't know if that I had a
beautiful experience with your,you know your mom and this is
what happened. You're justsharing your experience combined
someone?

Lynn (01:35:23):
Oh yeah, I loved it. I loved it when my mom and my dad,
my dad was the most recent topass it, it was four years ago
this month, that's hard tobelieve. But when somebody would
come with a great memory youknow, or I loved how your dad
always fill in the blank, youknow, it just meant the world
because it in a way, you know,our our loved ones not only live

(01:35:45):
on on the other side, but theydo live on in our memories and
our hearts. Yeah,

Mary (01:35:49):
yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, give them to
pull away, do you know, it'salright. Okay, I would run up to
my office every single morning,for probably a year after losing
Aaron. And the first thing I didwas had an all outs. And I never

(01:36:11):
told anybody that hated that.
But when it was over, I reallydid feel like I was watched. And
I could take a deep breath andmaybe look outside and go.
Alright, so I'm just gonna pickup this burden and move on with
my day. That what I did justsort of lighten the burden just
a bit for the day, and I can seewhat you have. And keep not.

Lynn (01:36:40):
One of the things that strikes me that you did did and
do very well is recognize thatyou don't have to gulp it all at
once. But that it's a it's astep by step moment by moment.
Yeah, yeah.

Mary (01:36:53):
That's right. It is. And the other thing is, one day has
realized that I hope, and Ithink it was because I don't
know, that morning. And itdawned on me, but I guess made
me a little bit introspective.
But it dawned on me that I feltjust erase that day in my life.

(01:37:14):
And I began sort of allowingthose things in. I don't know
that I was actively looking forthem. But I do know that when
they struck me, I would say,Well, I'm in that little realism
and realize that yeah, the restof the world is alternating

(01:37:38):
somebody's having maybe thetheir lives right now, while I'm
being tortured, you know, withbeef or whatever. We can do that
with illness looking at. There'sjust those little brights.

Lynn (01:37:56):
Yeah. My, my experience going through the grief I've
gone through is that the onlyway out was through and I
couldn't hide it Steph and Itried, I did a lot of things to
try. But but those those littlemoments of finally letting the
sun shine and or not feelinglike the world had to stop for

(01:38:20):
me it although I really feltlike it did. But just to
recognize that this, this issomething I'm moving through
gave me a tremendous amount ofstrength to say this is what
grief feels like.

Mary (01:38:36):
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And also behind me, when was that of
journey, we often will go whatwe say over the mountain and go
into E and your, your whip. Iknow, when you're on I already,
there can be some really uglyparts where you're bumper to

(01:38:57):
bumper, you know, cash bill, orthere's just like a smokestack
the whole sheet out if somethingugly, but then all of a sudden,
you'll be in what I think is theheight of the apple hatches and
there's nothing surrounding youbut ease, maybe we even get a
glimpse of a little roadsidewaterfall. And I think life is

(01:39:21):
like that a journey where youknow, it's downright ugly, and
uncomfortable. And other timesit's just glorious, the
breathtaking and that's that'slife on Earth and I think we're
all on a little journey to bethe best school that we can be

(01:39:44):
in this life and you know, makethat an additive to whatever
else happens after this lifewhether it be you know, we read
Nate whether it be we hate wherewe go or what about her I you
know Oh, no, we have no RU.

Lynn (01:40:02):
We don't and it is what it is. Our belief does not make it
so.

Mary (01:40:06):
Yeah. Right. That's right.
And it will be what it will be.

Lynn (01:40:11):
That's exactly right.
Well, so how do people find you?
I know you said you have aFacebook page, but give me all
the details on how people canget in touch with you. Yeah,

Mary (01:40:20):
thank you. I do remember website. And it's Mary D. Then.

Lynn (01:40:29):
So say that say that again, because I got these.
Mercado de sullivan.com.

Mary (01:40:39):
In my My name's Eric Lipton. And

Lynn (01:40:43):
we will have this in the show notes so that people can
find you easier, so they can goto the link.

Mary (01:40:48):
Yep. And then I do have a Facebook page, not just the
others, not

Lynn (01:40:55):
just from the other side.
Okay. Yeah.

Mary (01:40:58):
And, um, I would say those are the main parties. Yeah. When
it can when you want to buy thebook. It's available for all
major booksellers worldwideonline. It's in both digital.
And our version just becameavailable. I have not even seen

(01:41:20):
it yet.

Lynn (01:41:21):
Which version time? Oh, you actually have a hardcover
version. Very beautiful. Yeah.
Lovely. Lovely. Well, it'sfabulous hearing what you've
been willing to share. And I'vebeen listening with both ears.
And I know, our guests, or ourlisteners are doing the same
thing. So thank you so much,Mary, for being with me today.

(01:41:44):
Wow.

Mary (01:41:46):
Thank you. It's been a very interesting conversation.
It sure

Lynn (01:41:51):
has been. And for those of you listening, be sure to share
this podcast with your friends.
And we talked about visionboards in this workshop. So I'm
gonna give a shout out to aretreat that I'm doing with
Christine Dixon at Mystic watershere in like Florida, North
Carolina, May 17 through the19th. It's called design your
life a clarity retreat. And ifyou're interested in knowing

(01:42:11):
more, you can go to www dotmoments of wisdom.com or always
see me on Lynn karns.com aswell. In the meantime, we will
talk to you on the next podcast.
Thank you for listening to thecreative spirits unleashed
podcast. I started this podcastbecause I was having these great

(01:42:32):
conversations and I wanted toshare them with others. I'm
always learning in theseconversations, and I wanted to
share that kind of learning withyou. Now what I need to hear
from you is what you want moreof and what you want less of. I
really want these podcasts to bea value for the listeners. Also,
if you happen to know someonewho you think might love them,
please share the podcast and ofcourse subscribe and rate it on

(01:42:56):
the different apps that you'reusing, because that's how others
will find it. Now, I hope you goand do something very fun today.

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