#76 Stevie Delahunt: A Teacher of Grit on Her Tevis Cup Experience

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life and now here's
your host, Lynn Carnes,

Lynn (00:19):
welcome to the Creative Spirits Unleash Podcast. I'm
Lynn Carnes, your host for thisepisode, I have a returning
guest in Stevie Delahunt. Nowyou may remember she was on my
podcast last November. We hadmet at the journey on podcast
Summit, and immediately realizedthat we were kindred spirits.
And frankly, I just realized Iwanted to learn to be like

(00:40):
Stevie, because she is such abrave and daring woman. Now, I
had to have her back right now,because she just completed the
Tevis cup. This is something Ihad never heard of when I met
her, and then I came to realizeit is an epic, 100 mile
endurance ride on horses on thewestern states trail in
California, it's legendary. Only50% of the entrance complete

(01:02):
this full race, and this year,only 40% of the riders made it.
What they say under the bannerStevie was one of those riders,
along with three other riderscompeting on her horses. It was
an incredible 24 hours for them,which is what we talked about in
this conversation. We exploredlots of things, including what
it takes to ride for almost 24hours through some of the most

(01:25):
difficult trails you can findanywhere if you're a regular
listen to this podcast, thoughyou know that we had to explore
the mental side of the game, aswell as the physical preparation
that it takes to do such anamazing feat. She shared what it
was like in the dark moments.
And I mean literally darkmoments, because about a third
of this ride is done after thesun's down, and actually they

(01:47):
start before the sun even comesup. Things she did to be present
with herself and to be presentwith her horse. She talked a
little bit about what it was toalmost be a recovering planner,
and recognizing that you reallyhave to accept what comes on a
ride like this, because there'sjust no way to predict what's
going to happen. She also gaveher perspective on fear, on

(02:10):
intuition and how she makesdecisions when the stakes are
really high. In the end, I'veconcluded, and I think we might
have even talked about this onthe on the podcast, that Stevie
is a teacher of grit. I knowshe's helped me find more
resilience and courage than Iknew I had, and we talk a little
bit on this podcast about acouple of experiences we've had

(02:31):
together over the last year,particularly one in this last
June, where I actually came offa horse again. And for many of
you who've listened, you know, alot of my journey around
building resilience, courage andgrit has come from a fall I had
in 2017 off of a horse. Nowhere's what Stevie says about
herself. She graduated fromMichigan State University with

(02:53):
two degrees and an intent topursue law or sorry law school
at Georgetown University, whereshe'd been accepted, she
switched gears and went toFrench pastry School of Chicago
to learn how to do wedding cakesand set up shop in the Windy
City. While in Chicago, shelearned of the world's toughest
horse race, the Mongol Derby,which ironically, is starting

(03:15):
just this Thursday. And sheagain left her life guide her
into constant change. On theother side of successfully
completing the Mongol Derby, shetook a job with a startup
company in Rhode Island andlearned coding and marketing for
the online business. Theendeavor in the world of
startups gave her strongleadership skills. I can I can

(03:35):
attest to that, and in educationand business models, she applied
to starting her second andcurrent business of horse
related retreats. Her currentbusiness encompasses several
facets of the horse world,including beginner riding
instruction, advanced boot campstyle retreats for riders
wishing to participate indifficult horse riding, survival

(03:56):
races around the world, horseshoeing and endurance racing
with horses, including doing theworld's toughest one day, 100
mile horse race, the Tevis cup.
Stevie believes that adversityis a necessary part of life, and
being prepared for adversity, aswell as creating it for oneself,
is essential, and is a tool sheuses in teaching both horses and

(04:19):
humans, both young and old.
Well, I can attest to all ofthat because I've been to one of
her endurance boot camps nowI've watched her shoe the
horses, and I've cheered her onthrough the completion of the
Tevis cup, and we talk a lotabout that in this podcast. So I
hope you enjoy this episode withStevie Dale hunt. Stevie dalah
Hunt, welcome to the creativespirits unleash podcast. Thank

Stevie (04:43):
you so so much for having me again. I really
appreciate it.

Lynn (04:47):
Well, I the whole time that I was following you on
Tevis, I was thinking, I gottahave Stevie back on the podcast.
I don't know if there's somekind of like rules out there in
the in the universe that sayswho can be on your podcast and
when and how. Often. But I justdecided, whatever they are, I'm
breaking them because I have tohear about this 24 hour. And
really it's much longer than a24 hour adventure that you had

(05:10):
with Alex on this amazing ride.
So just before we like, thefirst question, I wanted to say
is just tell me kind of yourbasic or not basic, your your
experience of tennis, like, tellme. Let's just start talking
about that. You just finished.

(05:31):
What was it a week a couple ofweeks ago? We'll say, yeah,

Stevie (05:34):
about two weeks ago now.
Yeah, I had one of the mostamazing experiences, I think one
of the, probably the experiencethat people would sign up to
have, like, what they imaginetheir Tesla should be. And I
think that was a little bitbecause I actually let go of the
idea of it being anything atall, you know, like, I obviously
wanted to get across the finishline, but I kept kind of

(05:56):
repeating the mantra, ride thehorse you have on the trail, you
have in the moment, which islike, basically being extremely
present. Because I wouldn't eventry, you know, they say, just,
just try to get to your nextcheck. Like, don't even plan to
the end. Like, plan, like whenyou're cut off, is get to the
next cut off and your nextcheck. And I didn't even do

(06:16):
that. I was like, ride thisexact moment on this exact
trail, make the best decision inthe moment for what you have,
and somehow that got us throughkind of just ahead of cut offs.
I mean, we ride our horses. Ourhorses do a lot more miles than
most horses do, so that meansreally just taking every ride

(06:37):
like a training ride. So I'm notgoing there to win. I'm going
there to finish, which aerc, theAmerican endurance ride
Conference, which is thegoverning body of rides like
Tevis has the saying to finishis to win, which is awesome,
because it's a little bit likesaying the journey is what it's
about. And that's really I'veshifted over time for being a

(06:57):
pretty competitive person tojust being in competition with
myself, and competition with theidea of really doing what's best
for the horse, not what's bestfor my ego. So for that, it's
been slowing down quite a bit,especially because I'm also
often riding in a group of 10s.
And what I mean by that isthat's five horses and five

(07:18):
riders. Or this Tevis. We hadfour horses and four riders, so
you are only as fast as theslowest of the age of you, and
takes a little bit of it takes abit of finesse. And I guess this
Tevis experience was trulymagical, because I was super
present, and I felt so Alex.
Alex Alex has the horse we'retalking now is Alexander

(07:41):
Hamilton. That's the worst thatI wrote at us. And he has an
alter ego, which we call thecocaine bear, very feisty, and
he can be really kind of ahandful in big crowds of horses.
However, every time I've riddenhim in an endurance race. He is
super well behaved, and it wasno different for this Tevis. He

(08:04):
handled everything beautifully.
So luckily, when I ride him, thecocaine bear goes away and he's
just a teddy bear, and he wasexactly that. So having him give
me his absolute best self wasamazing. All the horses know
what Tevis is like. They knowwhere they are when they're at
the start. They understand thewhole course. I mean, they got

(08:24):
super excited when they're closeto all the tracks like Forest
Hill. They start cantering upthe hill on bath road because
they knew it was their stop.
They wanted to canter intoRobinson flat. That's the other
hour hold. They wanted to theydefinitely canter to the finish
line, until we ran into a lineof riders walking to the finish
line. But they were ready. Theyknew that, course. So it was
such a beautiful experience ofhaving a team of eight all with

(08:46):
the same goal, and the horsesjust really knowing their job
and really wanting to performwell, and taking it so seriously
and just communicating so wellwith us, like I felt like I was
in connection with all four ofour horses, and just got to
speak to Alex through the wholeride, and just had the beautiful
experience of just getting totell him how much that meant to

(09:07):
me, because he's doing it forme, like, I think they enjoy it
and everything, but at a certainpoint it becomes very difficult
for them, just like, yeah, forus, but having to push through
that space where it's notnecessarily like fun anymore.
Maybe you know it's really hard,and you're they're facing the
adversity of being tired andhungry and being like, you know,
letting having trust make upthat difference. Because he,

(09:32):
Alex knows, like, he gets theyoung world take care of him. We
have that. We've built that overyears. He knows exactly what the
routine is. So he had that trustthat I was going to do the best
thing for him and take care ofhim. And that was just such a
cool, cool experience to like,watch how much he was willing to
give me. And I'm going to trynot to cry to say this, but I
remember or cry when I say this.

(09:55):
But when I saw Dylan at thefinish, I was just like, I
didn't know that this. Horsewould give me everything, like,
I really is, like, he's a warhorse, like, I think he would
have died for me, and that was,like, the amazing moment of
being like, we had so much trustin each other that he was
willing to give everything,probably to the point of, like,

(10:15):
really injuring himself, whichwe never went there. But I think
that's the fun thing, is thathe's willing to do that, and
then I can see that and reallybe a guardian of that, and not
push beyond like it would be soeasy to take more from him,
because he's offering it sowillingly. And I think that our
trust and our friendship isreally strong, because I don't

(10:36):
take more than he's, you know,than I should. And so I just
like, I probably went a bitslower and more carefully than I
would if I was beingcompetitive, but overall, that
left me with a horse that hadmore gas in the tank at the
finish and and that has thattrust in me, like he'll continue
to offer all of that all thetime, because he knows I'll

(10:56):
never take advantage of him,which is really cool, and

Lynn (11:02):
what that makes me think of is Josh Nichols. I heard him
say once he's a horseman, that,from a horse's point of view, do
not take what is mine to give.
And that give and take of likethe horse wants to give to you,
and it it took me immediately toplaces where I've been in work

(11:23):
situations or other situationswith people where I felt like
they were trying to take whatwas mine to give. And it's
almost like it's demotivatingwhen someone does that. And it
feels to me like what you andAlex had was a partnership where
he was willingly giving it toyou, not giving it to you. Oh,

(11:43):
well, because you ask, you know,it was truly a partnership.

Stevie (11:50):
Yeah, it was, I mean, along the lines of it being so
special, it was really greattoo. I was really grateful for
my body showing up that day. Idon't think this is the most fit
I've ever come to a Tevis asbut, oh, sorry, joking there,
but I was able to get off andwalk the canyons with him, and I

(12:14):
think he could have carried meprobably, but this was a
extremely hot tub. So I'll backup a little bit and say, as far
as the experience, it wasextremely challenging, but just
enough challenge so that it wasa productive struggle, and we
came out the other side of allthe challenges. And that's like
tennis. It should be reallyhard, right? That and
persevering the adversity iswhat's so fun about it. And we

(12:37):
had exactly the right amount ofchallenge, I feel like, where we
could just overcome it all. Andone of those things was, it was
one of the hottest Tevis isthat's ever been on record. And
I was riding a very large horsethat's not all Arabian, which
means his heart rate is not,doesn't, recovers. And for those
of you who don't know aboutTevis, the horses welfare is, I

(12:59):
mean, for all endurance horsewelfare is very important, and
in Tevis, you have a checkbasically every 10 miles, and
the horse needs to pass atrotting inspection to make sure
it's not lame. They're checkinghydration, gut sounds, all these
parameters, but if you canimagine, the humans that run
these Ultras would never passthese checks. They have to run

(13:20):
not lame, and they have to havetheir heart rate come down in a
certain amount of time. And thisyear, one of the biggest reasons
for polls was heart rate, andthat's because of the heat.
Additionally, we didn't have iceout on course, which I feel like
we've had in the past. And I maybe wrong, but the water, because
it was so hot, all the water wehad to sponge and cool horses,
was actually hot itself, likewhich made it really hard, and

(13:44):
there was no breath of wind, socooling horses was very
difficult. So I thought, if Ican help Alex out, I'm gonna get
off and walk. And so I walked upthe canyons and ran with him in
the dark. There was one checkFrancisco's, which is the
furthest I've ever made it inTevis before, which is 85 miles.
And Alex looked amazing, but hisheart rate, he passed the heart

(14:06):
rate, who's at 64 which is theabsolute highest that can be,
and be okay, at that point inthe race. It's 60 at the
beginning, and goes to 64towards the end. And they do a
thing where they have you trotout, trot back, and then they
take your heart rate again, andthat's called a CRI, and it's
basically seeing like how steadythe heart rate is staying to

(14:26):
make sure the horse is doingokay. And he had an inverted
CRI, which means his heart ratewent above 64 after the trot, to
mean that he was getting tiredor hot. But again, this is a
horse that's half standard bred,half Arabian, large bodied. He's
quite heavy. We went into thisrace with extra pounds on him,
which I do think was helpful,but not helpful towards his

(14:49):
heart rate. And I did that trotout in the vet was like, I mean,
he I also trotted him very fast,because he has a beautiful,
really powerful trot. And Ireally wanted to show that he
was. Lame and feeling good, andI probably shouldn't have
trotted so fast, because it puthis heart rate up. But the vet
was like, well, he's eating. Helooks bright. Everything looks
amazing, except for his heartrate being inverted. He passed

(15:12):
the check by being at 64 but thevet was a little uncertain. And
I said, Listen, I will be onfoot from here to Laura Corey,
I'm going to feed him, and wewere close to the cut off out of
there, so I couldn't stay anylonger and let him eat and
relax. And I just had thatconversation with the vet, and

(15:33):
the vet let me go and trustedme, which was amazing, because
full circle at the finish line.
He was our finish line bet. So Iwent to him, and he is, Alex's
heart rate was 56 at the finish,which was awesome, well below
the 64 and I got to thank thatbet for having trust in me and
knowing that I would do what Isaid. So kind of just like all

(15:55):
these cool like synchronicitiesand like chasing the cut offs
was kind of part of it. Andhaving adversity is out there on
trail and and, but having thetools to overcome them was the
coolest thing. Like, I thinkthat was the fun thing. It was
like, I got to test everythingin my tool bag, use absolutely
every bit of it, and came outthe other side being like, these

(16:16):
tools actually work. Likeeverything, the mental, the
physical, for myself, for thehorses, like the resiliency,
they had to do things on theirown, like we got we separated a
few times in the canyons, andeveryone was fine. All the
riders took, listen to theadvice and followed it exactly,
and the horses did exactly whatthey were supposed to do. And
it's just like, very cool to,like, have the trial by fire,

(16:38):
and everything you've put inplace works, that's an amazing
feeling.

Lynn (16:44):
So could you describe just you don't have to give your
whole thing here, but like youmentioned, tools to overcome the
challenges. And I, I, I'm anartist, and what I learned,
pretty much in my firstexperience with art, whether
it's in the clay studio or withmy watercolors is I can have the
same tools that anotherwatercolorist or potter have,

(17:07):
and they're mine to use, kind ofin my own way. So it's kind of
amazing, because you've gotsomebody that may have 20
brushes, and they use all 20brushes, and somebody else, like
me, usually, who uses only, likefive, but with you know, really
well. And so to me, tools arewhat are in the hands of the
user. Of them is my point. Tellme a little bit about some of

(17:31):
the your mental tools and yourphysical tools that help make it
through some of that. BecauseI'm picturing, you know, I
followed you. I'm picturing youguys. I said, What was it? Half
the ride was in the dark, um,

Stevie (17:47):
a little less than um, so I think it gets dark,
basically, 9pm so we start inthe dark, yeah, the start is
always a very stressful spot,because it's 160 horses that are
ready to go 100 miles, standingon a drop off road like truly
Cliff drop off. And they have tostand there and behave like,
Wait, not move like we begin inpens. There's pen one for the

(18:12):
pastor horses, which we were in,and then pen two with the rest.
So the reason they do that issingle track for the first six
miles, and you can't pass it'sdrop off single track, so they
want to put the 60 fastesthorses in the front, yeah, and
it works pretty well. But thepens can be really scary,
because there's all these horsescircling in the dark and the

(18:34):
dust, and it's like very badfooting, and so you're circled
around. There's always peoplecoming off horses in the dark.
So that's a scary point. And we,the four of us, were just trying
to stay together, because youcan also get really you can get
separated. So one of our amazingcrew members who is possibly
going to ride Tevis, ended upcrewing for us as Becky. And she

(18:56):
was telling us, like, you guyshave to have a sound off so you
can find each other. So thewhole joke for the day was we
would go Eenie, meenie, mineymoe for the four of us, which
would help us laugh. So anyways,we were saying that in the dark.
Anyhow, we start in the dark,but by the time you're actually

moving at (19:12):
15am it is light, so you're really just riding in the

dark from about (19:16):
30pm until you finish the next morning at five.
So there's, I mean, it's a fairamount of dark time writing, but
about a third of the course, Iwould say, is in the dark. So,

Lynn (19:29):
so I'm picturing, though you really do have to reach just
exam, just that story you justsaid. You have to have some
mental tools to keep yourselfcomposed. Under those
circumstances, it's dark, thefooting is bad. You're trying to
stay together. It's easy to loseeach other. The people are
coming off. You're about to goon a single track trail with a

(19:51):
drop off. You know, that's a lotto carry. How do you at the very
beginning, before you've eventaken off, you're in that
circumstance. What do you do?
And what do you tell your otherriders to do to keep themselves
composed?

Stevie (20:05):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I mean, that's kind of before westarted recording this podcast.
We were talking about intentionsfor the podcast, and I was
saying, I mean, I feel likeTevis is just sort of a metaphor
for what I do, which is try tocreate mental tools for
sentience, for the horses andthe people that do things like
and Tevis is definitely that. Solike figuring out what tools to

(20:27):
give people and how far and howhard you can push people on
horses my whole life, rightthere. So Tevis is a really good
example of what I do, the toolsthat I give you know, like I'm
never certainly the right onestrying to disseminate the right
amount of information to theriders so they feel prepared,

(20:49):
but not overwhelm them, and alsonot project kind of your own
experience of things to otherpeople. Because, I mean, yet, of
course, you only have your ownperspective of of of things, but
I try not to, like, push my ownfears or worries onto riders and
just trying to give them justenough information. But also,
like, leave a lot open ended,because it's going to be their

(21:13):
own experience and and there'squite a lot. Like, we had two
new riders, one who'd never done100 mile ride before, and one
who had done 100 mile ride withus, but this was her second 100
mile completion. So you know,new 200 mile ride riders, and
new to Tevis riders. So let mequickly say that who the riders

(21:33):
were so myself, and then CarmenJackson, who's amazing. She's
one of my very best friends.
She's the most positive,wonderful human being ever, and
she now has four out of fourTevis finishes on our horses. So
she's completed Tevis fourtimes. So I actually looked to
her. So she was one of the toolsI had in my bag. Was a positive

(21:55):
light that knew exactly what shewas doing. And it worked out
perfectly. I put her on hero,who she loves, because hero's
our best lead horse. So it madesense for her to lead the group
and make the calls. Understandsthe trail the best and on the
horse that wants to lead. So herand I swapped back and forth
between leading, but for themost part, her and hero led a

(22:17):
lot of our ride, and then we hadJesse Dowling, who rode, who
trained with us for the MongolDerby, and rode Chuck Norris.
And then we had Sally Melendrez,who I cannot I knew the other
girls would be fine, but Sallywas like, is somebody that I've

(22:38):
gotten to know more and more.
She came to one of our bootcamps in one of my clinics, and
I feel like I often almostoverestimate people's grit and
hardly ever underestimate it,because I kind of feel like I
see the light in people. And shewas amazing. She had so much
grit, and I totally feel sovindicated by having chosen her

(22:58):
as the fourth rider, she did anabsolutely incredible job, and
she rode Sonic, our apple isArabian, anyhow. So I had these
two new riders, and was tryingto instill tools. And really the
biggest thing I said was just,you know, that be present, be in
the moment, and really read yourhorse and and be ready to do

(23:18):
this on your own. You know, westuck. We actually stuck
together as a group better thangroups have previously in Tevis.
But I think that's becauseeveryone brought their full self
and their full ability to theequation. And it's a little bit,
maybe, like they say, inrelationships, you're not half
of the relationship. You're yourwhole, a whole person in a

(23:39):
relationship. And it was alittle bit at for Tevis, like
each person showed up with alltheir skills at hand and ready
to do it alone. And because youare ready to do it alone, it's
that paradox that, in fact, thenit all comes together.

Lynn (23:55):
It's like a marriage, isn't it? It's like the best
partner in marriage is someonewho can stand on their own, but,
but but because of that, theycan bring their full selves.

Unknown (24:06):
Exactly

Lynn (24:10):
one of the things I wanted to ask about the Be present is,
I think that's a question. I getthis question a lot from people
I work with in in coaching,especially in when we're talking
corporate leadership there. Butwhen, when I say to be present,
most people are like, but how?
And one of the things you saidat the very beginning was, be
with the horse that I'm ontoday, at this not just, not

(24:31):
just today, but at this verymoment. What? What are your
what? How do you know whenyou're not present and, and what
do you do to to get back there?
Because I kind of think it'salways a game of going in and
out. I don't know that we'reever completely always present,
but we are kind of dancing thatline off and on all the time.

(24:54):
Does that make sense? Yeah. Youdo that.

Stevie (24:58):
Yeah. Um. And. Mean, it's funny, because I am famous
for doing that past and futureself. So, like, there's, you
know, when people are writingthings like Tevis or the Mongol
Derby, I have that thing that,when you're, like, wanting to
quit or give up, you can, youcan draw on, hey, what did past
me do to get me here? What wouldpass me think about the I'm
about to make? And then also,what is future me going to say

(25:22):
if I give up right now? Youknow, like you really have to
consult the past you and thefuture you when things are tough
in the present. Butparadoxically, that's sort of
bumping you out. Using your mindto leave the present moment,
which sometimes in reallydifficult things, is maybe
necessary. You have to, like,disconnect a little bit. If
you're suffering a lot in themoment, it's maybe time to play,

(25:44):
use your mind as a positivetool, and time travel a little
bit. So

Lynn (25:49):
self talk, yeah, the cell you make, basically you just
described how to make the selftalk work for you, because we
get out of the present momentwith that self talk. Yeah, this
is too hard. I don't know if Ican do this. A cup of tea would
be really nice right now. Andyou're just using it in a way to
say, This is what your futureself is going to say to you if

(26:10):
you quit right now,

Stevie (26:11):
exactly it's use, you know, if the tool is going to
keep showing up, make it workfor you instead of work against
you. And that's probably one ofmy favorite things. And of
course, something I've toldthose riders as well. But as far
as being present, I said, whenyou have to make decisions about
what to do, you can also really,really check back into the
situation. Because, you know,there everyone I'm I used to be

(26:33):
like a type A planner forthings, and horses and endurance
has really taught me to throwthat out the window like I
didn't even the chagrin of mybest friend, Mallory, who is
also my head crew this year.
She's like, got her like, Imean, she's wonderful. She has
spreadsheets about everything,and she's so organized. And I
couldn't live without her,because she is so organized for
me, like she helps me with mybusiness, everything, and I'm so

(26:56):
like, not that person anymore.
And I think when it's actuallyout in those situations, in the
field, it really does help me alot to, like, have a loose plan,
but be very open to changing it.
Because I think when you have aplan, you you're so you're
emotionally committed to it. Solike, an example is, we're going
to electrolyte the horses atthese certain points. Um, well,

(27:18):
even as calling the riders,like, Hey, this is when we they
were like, what? When exactlyshould we electrolyte? That was
like, a big question, and I feltso bad. I'm so like, wishy
washy, because I was like, okay,instead of me telling you when
to electrolyte, I'm going totell you what each of these
electrolytes does. So I waslike, this one, the BCAA, so
branched chain amino acids, isgoing to help your horse have a

(27:40):
energy boost in about 30 minutesafter you give it. So you're
going to want to read your horseand, and I was kind of going
through the electrolytes likethat, right? Like, there were
four different types that we'recarrying. And I was like, This
is what each one does. You readthe situation. I was like, on
your but on their cards. I like,loosely, like, said, they'll
probably need it here. They'llprobably need it here. Well, now
that, like Hiro had energy theentire time. I mean, I think

(28:03):
hero would have been happy totop 10. Tevis, he had quite a
lot of energy, and was doinggreat all day. Chuck had a lot
of energy. Alex struggled morebecause of the heat, so actually
borrowed some electrolytes frompeople. But I was super glad
that I'd had that conversationwith them, because I think just
that little conversation aboutwhen to use electrolytes and for
what really opened them to like,hey, I need to read the

(28:26):
situation, not just like,robotically follow a plan,
because nothing goes to plan.
Over 100 miles with 160 horseson a dangerous trail, right?
Like nothing ever goes to plan.
So you have to be really presentand like, what is actually
happening, and like, just likehumans show up as their
different selves, right? Like,you can come into work and be

(28:48):
like, I'm gonna pitch this ideato my boss, and you can read if
you had decided, you know, I'mgonna pitch this plan no matter
what, because it's the plan. Andyou then you totally shut down
your emotional reading and youdon't realize your boss is not
in the good place to hear thispitch for this plan or this
promotion that you want to havelike that's you know you need

(29:08):
to, like, read the situation soand but when we're stressed and
we're falling back into our oursympathetic nervous state, we
might want To just cling to thatplan, because we can't think
that it is really and going backto intuition that actually bumps
us back into parasympatheticgoing back into, like, I need

(29:29):
the situation that actuallyforces us to calm ourselves,
calm down and, like, put outthose emotional feelers. So
there's a couple of thingsworking together in harmony to
make the situation better, whichis like you're trying you have
to be embarrassing, but thatparasympathetic to think and
then thinking and reading andbecoming emotional is actually

(29:50):
going to connect you to thesituation in a way that's much
more functional than if you'rejust sticking to a plan and
allowing yourself to. Day in asympathetic, nervous state. That
makes sense.

Lynn (30:04):
It makes a lot of sense.
I've actually found in myself,you know, I've been working with
some feral horses down at rainrescue, which I'm on the board
of, and I started discovering Iuse the word agenda, because
what I've discovered is,whenever I start having an
agenda for the horse. It'sreally, first of all, they feel
it. They show me they feel itand it. It puts a wall between

(30:25):
us, but it also shows me thatI'm attached to some outcome,
rather than dancing with thehorse. And I started calling
that my healthy mommy syndrome.
Because the reason I call ithelping mommy, because it's like
me trying to fix the situationso that I don't have to feel bad
about it not going according tomy plan or my agenda. And then

(30:49):
it's not about what does thehorse need in this moment, but
what I need in this moment tofeel good about myself. And so
discovering that little thinghas been so useful because it's
like, what is on me and what'snot on me, right? And most of
the time, I'm taking upsomething that I'm trying to
take up, a horse of slack that Ishouldn't be trying to take up.

(31:11):
But it's not because of them,it's because of me, because I
need it for me, my helping mommyself. So we've, we've, that's
one of the things I've reallybeen working on is, you know,
being able to work with a horsewithout my agenda being
attached, and just being able toobserve and say, Okay, that's
what happens when I do this, orthat's what happens when they
move here, you know, as opposedto, oh, I didn't want that, and

(31:34):
I gotta fix it, yeah,

Stevie (31:37):
it's, it's Amazing how horses help us just see
ourselves.

Lynn (31:44):
There's such good mirrors.
And as I'm listening to youdescribe how you had everybody
reading, it's so different,because this is also I have,
like, an inner, you know, goodlittle girl that wants to please
the teacher. Where's where thatstuff came from. And I can
imagine that if you tellsomeone, okay, they need their
branch, chain amino acids atthis particular stop or at this
particular place on the trail,and they did it because you told

(32:05):
them that when it wasn't theright time, then they're not
going to have as good a shot ofhaving the horse and them feel
good throughout the ride andmaking it to the end as it would
when you say, Hey, this is whatto watch for. Here's a tool. Use
it as you see fit.

Stevie (32:23):
Yeah, yeah. You know another sorry. That just jogged
my memory to that I said to themthat I I didn't think about it
till now. Was another, anotherspot was, I was telling them,
when you're doing this trail,there are going to be times
where you feel that you shouldnot be asking a horse to do

(32:44):
this, that it feels way beyondwhat's okay, and that they're
really fine, because they'vedone this like I was counting
the horses all have about threebuckles now for Tevis, so
they've done this ride andcompleted it successfully and
been Fine. And I remember sayingthat at the beginning, but I
remember moments like Sally andI were at the back in the

(33:06):
canyons, and she was like, Ithink Sonics really tired and
and I remember now thinking likethat was, you know, there's
those moments where you trulyquestion asking the horses to do
this stuff, but it's like, I'mgoing to go on a tangent now,
but being a bit of a runner andan ultra runner, I think that my

(33:27):
perspective is a little bit alittle bit different and helpful
for endurance, in that I cantotally push myself to run and
have moments where I want tofeel like I'm going to pass out,
But I recover, like I'm justfine in about 10 minutes and and
I think I'm a lot morecomfortable pushing people and
horses, because I push myselfconstantly. And I realized that,

(33:51):
like that adversity is actuallya space of growth and a feeling
of accomplishment. And Iremember telling myself that
many times, like I had a couplemoments that I was so grateful
for that 50k that I ran lastyear. This 50k around was 31
miles. I only got to train the18 miles because I didn't have

(34:12):
any time to train for it. And Idid end up finishing just under
the time I wanted to for those50k but the last six miles of my
run were truly horrendous. I Iwas, I've never been in that
state of mind. It was so hard,probably the hardest I've done
physically in a long time. And Iwas walking up the canyons,

(34:33):
breathing super hard, walkingwith Alex, and I was thinking,
this is way easier than that 50k

Lynn (34:39):
there's a mental tool for you. Comparison,

Stevie (34:41):
totally I had that and then I also was like, but I
pushed myself that hard and wasshaking and felt like I was
going to vomit for those lastsix miles. But I crossed the
finish line, and right beforethe finish line, I remember
randomly had all this energy to,like, run across and look really
cool when I finished. And I waslike, wow. So my mind was
preserved. My body for thoselast six miles, I actually had

(35:02):
more to give. And immediatelyafter crossing the line, like I
sat down with Dylan and the dogand had something to eat, but
that was totally fine. Andhaving that knowledge of what
our body and minds tell us wasalso helpful. And being able to
push the horses, because Sonicwas looking a little tired, his
muscles start quivering just alittle bit, which is not a great
sign, and we electrolyted himwith the right electrolytes, and

(35:24):
then he came out of it. He wastotally recovered. All our
horses actually rode really fastin the dark because we took it
so carefully through thecanyons. And it was just a
really good moment of realizing,like you can push Sentients to
complete exhaustion if they havethe physical and mental tools to
bounce back from that. And yeah,they covered so quickly. That

(35:47):
was what was great. And youknow, I was stressing about
heart rates the whole time withAlex, but didn't realize the
whole time people were gettingpulled left and right for heart
rates. And actually, lookingback on my card, Alex was at 60
at a lot of the stops and the inthe cut off was 64 so all these
tools, all these things I wasdoing, like being off and not on
him, and like just trying tohelp him out, going slower than

(36:10):
maybe other people would have inthe canyons actually really paid
off. And, yeah, it's just suchan interesting, interesting
space to occupy, where you havetrust, maybe in your own program
and and that being like thephysical physicality of the
horses, so their ability torecover, and the mental
fortitude that the horses have,that resiliency, where they can

(36:32):
be okay with being asked toreally push themselves and still
trust that we have their bestinterest at heart. That's like a
really cool spot

Lynn (36:40):
that isn't, well, that's the true role of somebody who
puts themselves in the space ofbeing a mentor or a coach. And,
you know, I've looked at, Ithink it's the Navy SEAL say
that it when we think our whenour minds say we are at our max,
there's 40% left in the tank.
Yeah, I've

Unknown (36:59):
heard that too, and

Lynn (37:01):
that's stunning. But I've, I've tested it a few times. I
don't know if I've ever takenmyself, you know, to complete
exhaustion or to complete to theedge, but I heard something. I
heard an interesting story. Itwas told by Josh Waitzkin, who
was the, he was the kid insearching for Bobby Fisher. So
he was a chess master, and thenhe went to become a Tai Chi Push

(37:23):
Hands world champion. And he, intalking about his training, said
that he would train to the pointof being gassed, because there
was, I think I'm going to getthe time wrong, but let's say
there's 30 seconds betweenrounds or something, or maybe
it's two minutes, but he wantedto recover in 30 seconds, but it
for the sake of the story.
Timing doesn't really matter.
What he did train to do. He saidwhat I actually was training my

(37:46):
body to do was to go full out sothat I did not have to hold
anything in reserve in everyround, because I could trust
that with that break in theround I could recover. And I
think that's when I firststarted recognizing how
important recovery is. It'slike, well, if I and I actually
do this with my water skiing,it's like, I know when I can,

(38:08):
like, really push myself,because I know I'm going to give
myself the day off tomorrow. Soyeah, it's like, like, go ahead
and do that. And this actuallyhappened to me a couple of days
ago. It's like, I did not I wasskiing harder than normal, and I
did not know on that sixth passif I was going to even be able
even be able to hold on, but Iwas like, You're not going to
have to hold on tomorrow, sojust go and again. I probably

(38:30):
still had 40% in the tank, butthat's what I'm hearing in your
story, is having that wisdom andbelief in someone else to truly
be a coach and a mentor to them,you know, and then provide the
support so that you can also askmore of them. I think is that's
an amazing and very trickybalance.

Stevie (38:51):
I feel that that was like the underlying theme of
this year's Tevis, as we talkabout it, is trust. It was like
trust in my own body, trust inthe tools that had in place,
trust in the horse and thehorses trust in us, favorite
moments, which I'm sure Jessewill chat about, but I it, it
sounds maybe strange, but Ithink anyone who's been a

(39:12):
teacher or student canunderstand this. Like, I think
being coachable is such anamazing skill because it means
you're like, very open to likeshifting your own paradigms, and
open to like believing andtrusting in other people. And we
walked down the first Canyon,which I meant to have that
toughest thing in front of me,because I always forget the name
of the Canyons the first Canyon,the second one is El Dorado, but

(39:34):
the first Canyon walked

Lynn (39:35):
that picture you sent for people in my blog, so that
people can see the ups anddowns. Because I was going to
ask you, how many miles of thesecanyons that you're talking
about, of the 100 miles, howmany of the miles were what you
call the canyons?

Stevie (39:51):
Um, I mean for the most part, really, last chance to
Forest Hill is Canyon. You'redoing the double thumb Canyon,
El Dorado Canyon, involved.
Canyon. So that's about 18 milesof canyons, and that's not to
disclude riding up to high campfrom the highway 89 crossing at
the beginning to high camp atmile 13 is a pretty tremendous

(40:11):
climb as well. So there's notreally as much down, but a lot
of climb there

Lynn (40:19):
and then. So a good fifth of the ride is the canyons. What

Unknown (40:22):
was that? Sorry, the 20% of the ride

Lynn (40:25):
is canyons. Yeah. I

Stevie (40:27):
mean, this has 14,800 feet of elevation gain, which is
crazy, and 20,000 almost 21,000feet of elevation loss in this
ride over 100 miles, which ispretty intense, so net loss,

Lynn (40:41):
but a lot of climbs to go with the with the net loss, a
lot of climbs, a

Stevie (40:47):
lot. Yeah, so these canyons are right in the middle
of your ride, which is actuallythe hottest part of the day,
always. Um, our watches weresaying, like, different, mixed
reports, but about 105 in thecanyons. Um,

Lynn (41:00):
so you guys have electrolytes for the for you the
people too. How did you guysmanage enough electrolytes and
and water for yourselves aswell?

Stevie (41:10):
Luckily, the thing that makes this ride so magical and
spectacular is so your crew canonly be at two points along the
ride, essentially, like the twobig checks, the only mandatory
one hour holds, which areRobinson flat at mile. I think
it's 30 6am. I Right? Yeah, mile36 Robinson flat, and then

(41:32):
Forest Hill mill site at mile 68so basically, every third you
get to stop. So at 1/3 of therace and two thirds of the race,
you have an hour hold where youactually see your official crew
that helps you. But everywhereelse along the ride are
volunteers. Now, they'reincredible. They're like
cheering you on. We get a lot ofthe western states, 100 foot

(41:53):
race runners that come out andvolunteer because they're just
enamored with the trail. Andthese people will do anything
for you. They're like, holdingyour horse. They're refilling
your water. So we carry, like,electrolyte packets on us and
mix that with the water. Butthere's human water, horse,
water, food, everything at all,these volunteer checks, and the
volunteers are like, right thereto help you. I mean, I had Alex

(42:14):
was not cooling off. I had like,four volunteers dumping water on
him, just totally like theirlife depended on it getting his
heart rate down, and they'relike that for everybody. So it's
incredible. It's like having apit crew run up to you as soon
as you get to these stops. Andthat's what makes this race like
so much safer for the horses andriders, is having all the

(42:35):
support along the way. SometimesI say that actually, Tevis is
not the worst, first 100 mile,depending on your horse's
temperament, because there areso many spots in which you can
either be pulled if the horse isnot doing well, but also
support, because there are a lotof like, there's the Virginia
City 100 that contrasts it, andit's one of the other most
tough, tough hundreds in theWest that we did. I actually did

(42:57):
on Alex last year, and that'slike, got like, a 50 or 60 mile
loop at the beginning, andthere's there's support on the
way a little bit. But man, youare just riding stretches of
open, rocky Nevada desertwithout anyone or anything you
know. So that can make it reallydifficult too. So every 100
mile, just like all the big 100mile Ultra running races, is

(43:19):
very unique to itself, but thewestern states is, if we didn't
add the volunteers, I don'tthink would be safe or possible.
So yeah, we have electrolyteswith us, and there's water stops
for people along the way. Butthose those 105 degree canyons,
back to talking about tools andbeing coachable. We walked down
the first one to give the horsesa break, because actually it's

(43:41):
harder on the horses. If youthink about downhill, just like
running, that's higher. So ifyou can get off for your
downhills, you're actuallyhelping your horse a lot. They
don't have to balance you. Andthen you ride up hills, um, and
we all got off and walked downthe first Canyon, and it goes
into the Swinging Bridge area,which is over a rip over the

(44:02):
river, and you get to walk intothe river and cool your horse.
We actually took probably toomuch time there looking back.
That was maybe the only mistakewe made, because that put us
close to cut offs. We we hadwatched the horses in the river,
and we're just dumping water onthem. And after we got out of
the canyon, we we walked thehorses across cross Swinging
Bridge, which is exactly what itsounds like. It's a bridge that,

(44:23):
like, sways back and forth asyou go across it, but luckily,
you're at like, halfway point,so your horse is probably tired
not to listen to you. Andluckily, our horses have done
Swinging Bridge quite a lot,because we used to ride the
canyons to practice when I livedin that area of California, and
we got back on, there's like arock on the other side, so you

(44:45):
can, like, Mount back up and goup the canyon from there. And
after we mounted up, Jesse waslike, I think I'm having a
stroke. And I was like, Oh mygosh. Like it, you know,
immediately I was like, reallyanxious. And because, I mean,
very possible to have heatstroke out there, right? Like,
that's not a joke. And she'slike, I'm like, What are you

(45:07):
feeling? You know, kind ofasking her, but she was, she
wasn't slurring her words oranything. So I was like, okay,
that's positive. And I was like,take little sips of water,
breathe through it. Like, you'retotally fine, you know, like,
just let Chuck walk you up thehill, like, just grief. And we
did some, I can't, I alwaysforget the name of this, but

(45:28):
Dylan had taught me this.
There's this breath that youtake, and it's called, like, the
Paris something breath, but it'sa

Lynn (45:37):
which is, that is, hang on a minute. I teach this one the
physiological side, yes,

Stevie (45:44):
yes. So I was having her do that. And, and I always think
of it, because when you SOBreally hard, that's kind of you
automatically do that, like it'sgood, yeah, yeah, and it centers
you. So I was having her dothat, and she was listening to
me. And, I mean, I was a littlebit panicking in my mind, but I
was thinking, like me panickingis not going to help, or being

(46:08):
really worried. And honestly,like having trouble in the
canyons, you have to get up towhere people can help you. I
mean, it's single, trapped dropoff ish, you know, not, not safe
trail, like you have to keepgoing forward. There's no
choice. And I was like, Allright, well, we'll at least get
her to the top of the top of thecanyon, but I'll just keep
talking Dora through it. AndJesse trusted me enough to get

(46:28):
her through that. Like you haveto be coachable, you know, which
is such a skill. And I reallyappreciated the trust she placed
in me in that moment, and me,you know, just such a classic
teacher student moment where,like, it seems like your teacher
is very calm, but on the otherside of it, you realize that
they were also like, oh my god,oh my

Unknown (46:48):
god, yeah, so worried.

Stevie (46:50):
And so we, we went, got through that, and by halfway up
the canyon, she was feeling alot better. And it was, I think
it was also like, Jesse'smindset, like I've really
noticed for myself, in doingcold plunges that that moves
across to, like, heat, um,tolerance as well, in that it's
a mindset thing. Like, I doreally feel like you could

(47:11):
succumb to the heat if youreally say, Oh, I'm hot. Like,
yeah, you really not just acceptthat premise. Like, for me,
like, Oh, I feel I'm sweating,but I'm fine, you know, like,
that's I've changed my mindsetaround temperature, and I
struggle a lot more with cold.
I'm actually one of the mostheat adapted people in the
world, probably, I love theheat, and so it wasn't a problem
for me, but I've, I've learnedthe I can feel uncomfortable in

(47:34):
the heat, but I if you do notgive in mentally to it, you
actually have a lot more controlover your physicality and your
experience of it. And I knowthat more from my experience
with cold plunging, where,again, if you don't give into
I'm cold, like, don't thinkabout that. Think about
something else. And also thinkabout being in control of your
body. And so that was kind ofthe conversation we had around

(47:56):
the heat as we went through it,and and Jesse, it was like
strong enough to be able to getthrough that experience, because
she was not only trusted me, butin herself and mentally, was
able to overcome that momentwhere she could have probably
really gone into some heatshock.

Lynn (48:15):
I have 1000 places I want to go, but I have something just
triggered. As you said, shetrusted in herself, and you
mentioned also that she's verycoachable. And I know Jesse
because we rode together in yourJune camp, which we'll get to
later. We're going to talk aboutthat. And Jesse is the one of
the four of you that had or thatnot just the one of you, because

(48:36):
you've done this, but shefinished the mongold Derby last
year, world's longest horserace, 1000 kilometers across
long Mongolia. But here's what,here's what got triggered, is
trusting herself, to trust youand to be coachable. And I can
see that she's coachable. I'm Icould. It's almost like I knew
it the minute I met her. What?
What is it that makes someonecoachable? Do you think?

Stevie (49:04):
I think it goes along the lines of like, truly wanting
to learn, like truly being in aplate space of like
introspection and self growthand, yeah, and growth, because
there's a lot of people thatwant the end result, right? Like
that will show up. And becausethey're so focused on the end

(49:26):
result of what they might wantto get, they're actually not
listening to the process. And Ithink Jesse's figured out the
magic is in the process. Like,can't say that enough. It's all
about the journey. And I think,you know, in training for the
Mongol Derby, Jesse has realizedthe fun was the training. I
think a lot of Mongol Derbywriters find that out like

(49:47):
they're all to get to thisfinish line. I want to finish
the Mongol Derby, but typically,like especially the repeat
clients that we have back, theyrealize that the joy in life is
about training for things likethe Mongol derby. It's not in
the actual doing of it, like thedoing of it is the icing on the
cake, but the cake itself isthat that process of being a
lifelong learner and and a lifeand wanting to improve, right?

(50:09):
Like a lot of the people thatcome to the Derby, are top
riders to begin with, so they'reat the top of their game in some
capacity, but they realize nowthere's like another gap to
clear to be able to ride aMongol pony that far, and then
they get to be learners again.
And I think if they really enjoythat process, they become
coachable, which really justmeans they're open to learning

(50:31):
and open to shifting theirparadigm. And like feeling so
good about that paradigm shift,especially because things like
Mongo Derby and Tevis reallyopen back up the way you look at
your horse human relationship,it puts it under a lot of
stress, but it also tells youthat you have to trust your
horse. And I think that'ssomething that the modern, maybe

(50:51):
show world or modern horse humanrelationship has taken away. Is
like we've taken we want to makethings so safe, and to make it
safe, we're like the human needsto do all the thinking. Well,
that doesn't work out on horseterrain, like our horses are far
superior. Believe me, I ran alot on foot. I had to hang on to
Alex's saddle in the dark,running downhill over rocks like

(51:13):
there's no way I'm good at that.
He was great at that, so I hadto trust him. And I was just
running blind, hanging on tohim. And same with Mongol derby.
Like, do you really know theterrain better than those
Mongolian ponies? No. So itopens the relationship back up
to being more of a 5050, input,where the horse has a lot of

(51:33):
say, and you have to have trustin that horse and just trusting,
yeah, no, getting rid ofcontrol, really letting go of
control was a lot of this. AndJesse discovered

Lynn (51:46):
that that's the that's the principle of be the conduit that
I've been learning, which is,let the horse tell you what to
do, when to do, how to do. And,you know, really trusting that
they do have a say so, and thatthey do know better. And I have
found on for me, on trail ridesand so forth. I've had different
as you know, I've had a lot ofteachers. Some have been like,

(52:08):
you decide every football andI've realized out on the trail,
and that may be true in thearena, in certain circumstances,
but out on the trail, I reallydon't like to I like I want them
to pick their their path,because it's their feet, you
know. And they know better thanI do where we should go and what
will work. And it's amazing whathappens the thing that I strikes

(52:32):
me and tell me, if you havenoticed this, when I'm in the
space of be the conduit, meaningI am open to the horse, telling
me they seem to know it. I don'tknow how, how they do, but it's
a feeling that comes across. Isthat what you've experienced as
well? Like, they know whenyou're really listening to

Stevie (52:50):
them, yeah, absolutely, yeah. That's and that's like
opening up that connection,right? Like, I think, just like
in a relationship with any Ilove to liken how I treat my
horses to how would I treat afriend or another human for the
most part, because we're allsentient, and I often think

(53:11):
like, if you're controlling theconversation all the time with
another human, they're not goingto be very interested in
speaking anymore, right? Like,if you're not, if you're just
talking at yourself, basically,which is what a lot of people
are doing with their horses.
They're like, where should wego? We should go here. We should
do exactly this, and we'll dothat. And like, you know how
what friend is going to want tohave a conversation with you
anymore, if that's how theconversation always goes? And

(53:33):
yeah, maybe they'll keep showingup, but they're going to show up
shut down. They're just ignoringwhat you're saying because
you're just rambling. But whenyou're inviting them to have a
say in the conversation, like,where should we go? Can you can
you show me how where we shouldgo? What speed should we go? Can
you show me what speed? And thenjust focusing on yourself in
that moment of being like, I'min a balance while you choose to

(53:54):
can or trot, walk, whatever youwant to do in between, really
empowers them, but there's aflip side to that, like
everything's such a balance. Ifeel like our horses are fairly
empowered, but they also speakpretty loudly, like all of our
horses throw bucks to let usknow how they feel. And I think
a lot of horse trainers would bereally appalled and horrified by
that, but that's just the waythat they speak. And I feel like

(54:17):
it's my duty to be physicallycapable to handle that, because
they're never trying to buck tobuck. You off. I take that back.
Chuck can be a little a littlenefarious sometimes, but for the
most part, our horses are justtrying to communicate clearly
and and like Alex is a greatexample. Like I said, His
nickname is the cocaine bear. Imean, that horse is, like,

(54:38):
wildly expressive, and he'sprobably the least shut down
horse I've ever encountered, andthat's because we've empowered
him to be such like I neverquestion what he's thinking,
because his face will tell mewhat he's thinking, and he's
just wildly animated and and itcan be a lot like I, I won't go
down this road too far, becauseI could go off and. Another

(54:59):
tangent. But I often think, likewe just got another horse added
to the herd. We did an exchangefor Captain, and he's in a great
spot, and that's a whole otherconversation as well, but he
came to us as dangerous and andalmost put down because of his
mannerisms. And I think everyonesays, oh, Stevie, your horses

(55:20):
are amazing. And I just laugh,because all of them have done
antics which, and I think justbecause they're, you know,
Arabian crosses that are fit togo 100 miles, they're extremely
expressive. And I imagine in thewrong hands, many people would
be like, this horse should beput down. And I think about
that, about Alex, the horse Irode Tevis on, is he can be
pretty, like a huge handful, butif you really know him and read

(55:41):
him, he's not actually evergoing to hurt you. He's just
going to be expressive to thepoint where you're afraid.
Possibly, he's quite a lot ofhorse, and that's just because
he's fully allowed to haveinput. So there is, you know,
Mark Schiller talks about likeyou have to be careful about
waking up a shutdown horse,because there's going to be a
lot to say. And I would say ourhorses are definitely not shut

(56:02):
down, but in the wrong if it'sinterpreted incorrectly, that
could be there would be a lot offear around how they behave, I
think, right? Well,

Lynn (56:13):
when we start listening to the other person, essentially,
horse, dog, you have to allowroom for things not to go your
way. You know it's not alwaysgoing to be the exact way we
want it, and I feel like that'spart of the give and take of a
relationship too, that if we'restuck on it's gotta go my way or

(56:34):
the highway, you're probablygoing to find yourself in a in a
one sided relationship,

Stevie (56:42):
absolutely, I was just gonna say just like a marital
relationship, right? Like,everyone has these dreams of,
like, a perfectly romanticrelationship, and it's like,
it's, you're never gonna bealigned on everything, and so
you really have to listen to theother person that I don't think
it's different in the horsehuman relationship. I mean,
that's sentient, unsentientbehavior, pretty, pretty

(57:04):
mirrored. Yeah,

Lynn (57:05):
it really is, and, and it's part of that being
coachable question that you alsomentioned as well, because to
me, I've had to make thistransition for myself. I would
say I don't know how many yearsago, I won't try to put a
timeline on it, because it'sbeen more of a like awakening
for me than it's been a lightswitch. But there was a time
when I was definitely notcoachable. I needed to be right.

(57:28):
I needed to prove to you I wasright, and I needed to get to
that end goal no matter what,and the process be damned, and
whatever you do don't make melook bad, and I sometimes help
other. And to me, that's a formof human shutdown, by the way,
yeah, and I this is one of thethings I do now, is help people

(57:49):
sort of come out of that.
Because for many people, it'slike, well, of course, duh.
That's the way it works. That'show we're supposed to be. Is we
gotta, you know, make the stockprice go up, or finish this
project, or whatever the goalmight be, and not recognizing
that the journey is really abouta learning process. Back to what
you said earlier, is the payoffisn't in the goal. The payoff is
in who you become on the way tothe goal,

Stevie (58:14):
absolutely, absolutely and just enjoying. I mean, I
always tell people for theMongol Derby, if your sole goal
is to, like, finish or finishwell, or like, any, any big race
or big destination, or like,say, you're doing an Iron Man or
something, if you only careabout crossing the finish line,
that's really sad, becausethat's one second of the
experience, truly one second ofthe entire experience. So are

(58:38):
you going to be stressed out andupset through the entire like
year leading up to it like theprocess is available to us
almost all the time, whereas theend result is a very fleeting
moment in comparison. So if youare invested only in your
results, you're really leading avery stressful, sad life.

Lynn (58:57):
It's kind of empty. And it also, I feel like might be one
of the roots of the rampantdepression that we see, and
because you can't ever besatisfied if you're living for
that one second that's fleetingand gone. And from what I've
seen, I've spent a lot of timewith people who have crossed

(59:18):
that finish line, or in the SkiWorld, or whatever it can feel
pretty empty. They can achievetheir goal, the thing they
wanted so much, and an hourlater, be looking around going,
Oh, now what

Stevie (59:29):
I mean every you know, this is my fourth attempt at
Tevis, and I usually take thehorse that's probably least
likely to finish. Anyhow, thisis my fourth attempt, my first
finish. So I finally got thebuckle, and I may have pictured
that a million times in my head,but I already knew. I already
knew what it's like to finish100 mile ride ride. It's always

(59:49):
super anticlimactic, becauseit's always super early in the
morning. Everyone's exhausted,and everyone's like, yeah,
great, I'm going to bed. And Ithink one of my. Favorite 100
mile rides are the really small,poorly attended ones where
there's maybe like 12 ridersthat have signed up, and almost
no one's there at the finish,because it really highlights.

(01:00:10):
Just let those experiences youcome in in the dark, and it's
just really about you and yourforce and what you've just done,
and you better have enjoyed thatprocess, because there is no
fanfare at the finish. Tevis isdifferent. There's a whole
stadium everyone's cheeringlike, that's like, probably a
much more traditional feelingthat people would want. But I
truly enjoy the hundreds whereit's like, there's no one there

(01:00:30):
to see what you've done. Andthat's a shift for me as well. I
think all of us that grew up intraditional schooling where,
like, the grade you got in yourpaper was all that mattered.
Like, I also, as a peoplepleaser, same thing, like,
that's changed for me. Enduranceriding has changed that for me,
because there's, it's so long toget to a finish line that you

(01:00:52):
better enjoy the process and andnot just the process of the day
of the ride, right? Like, thethey say, Tavis is all about
bringing a horse to the startline, because that is years of
training like, I think it takesfive years to make 100 mile
horse, oh, to have this 100 milehorse at least, and to bring one
that's truly going to come outthe other side of it and

(01:01:12):
continue to have a like, reallyblossoming career. I think it's
five years of training and workand preparation at least, and
and that's you have to have joyin that, because it's all of it.
That's your whole life, andthat's the finish line at Tevis
was just a snapshot ofeverything that I tried to train
for. And so it's just a it'sreally good to have that

(01:01:35):
perspective of enjoying theprocess. And and I was laughing.
Last year we finished five outof five horses, but I didn't
ride, and we had ridersstruggling with lots of
different things. We had anamazing rider from Australia
named Trish, who is, I don'twant to mess up her age, but I
think she's 63 I want to makesure that I'm saying that right,

(01:01:59):
and but she's, I'm going to say63 maybe she's older than that,
but that was pretty amazing. Andshe finished on Sparta, who's
17, and that was a truly magicalexperience, like five riders
from around the world road, andthey didn't know the horses as
well, like there were so manythings we had Alex Lewis, who's

(01:02:22):
battling, coming through cancer.
I mean, just like a really like,it was amazing that we got a
five out of five finish. And thefeeling that I had, I was with
Tricia, husband, Ian, and thisis Tricia, third attempt at
Tevis. We were standing on thebridge. It looked we were
looking at our trackers on ourphone, and it said that she was
like, not where she was supposedto be on trail, and thought she

(01:02:43):
wasn't going to finish. Theother four riders had just
ridden past us. So we were like,awesome. We have four horses
going under the banner. We areover at no hands Bridge, which
is about four miles from thefinish. And we're like, Awesome.
Well, at least bring four horsesunder the banner, which is an
amazing achievement. Super cool.
And we kept waiting, just hopingthat she was going to be there.
And we were like, okay, in 10minutes, if she doesn't come by,

(01:03:05):
like, she's probably getting atrailer ride back, something
happened. And when we saw thesehorses trotting up, and right
behind them was Trish on Sparta.
And I, I don't even, I can'teven explain, like, being like,
oh my god, we're gonna get fiveout of five horses under the
banner, and truly thatexperience of like, being like,
I got to give this gift to thesepeople, like, of these horses,

(01:03:27):
like it wasn't even me, likethose horses gave themselves to
these people because theyunderstand what Tevis means. In
fact, I think they think itmeans more than it does, because
in their world, Tevis is aTevis. Is it like Tevis is the
pinnacle of their existence, andthey got to give that experience
to these people. And everyonegot a buckle, and the experience
of them getting their buckles,including my best friend,

(01:03:50):
Mallory, was like better thatthat year, that experience was
better for me than getting myown buckle. And I kind of knew,
I knew that there'd be an anticlimatic crossing the finish
line, and it kind of was, and Iwas super excited that we got
four out of four again, whichwas mind blowing, because I was
like, cool, we got five out offive. I'll never have that

(01:04:10):
experience again. I'll never get100% completion again. Like,
that's just not how Tevis works.
And then we got it this year,which was mind blowing.

Lynn (01:04:19):
Mind blowing given that 40%

Stevie (01:04:23):
and this year, hot and hard, like they picked so Tevis
trail differs every year alittle bit, depending on like
fires and trail restoration.
They have lots of like littledifferent routes that they can
take along the way. And thisyear, they kind of picked the
toughest of everything, likethey included pucker point,
which is like three miles ofpretty intensely drop off trail.
So I will say, like, realizingwhat part was pucker point this

(01:04:44):
year. It's quite nice, Sandytrail. It was, like, beautiful
trail, very scary.

Lynn (01:04:52):
But video, my, my heart stopped when I saw some of that
video,

Stevie (01:04:57):
yeah, it's um, it's serious, uh. So yeah, the. Trail
was one of the most difficultthat they've had before, and
also the hottest. And again,like you said, 40% completion
rate this year. 160 horses cameto Robie Park, and I think 56
crossed the finish line. So thatwas it was a tough year, and it
was amazing to have all four ofour horses do it again. And that

(01:05:20):
I still haven't probably evenprocessed, but getting getting
my own buckle wasn't really whatit was about. In fact, the
moment, I think the moment, likeI said, of all five crossing and
seeing other people realizetheir dreams, was pretty
amazing. And also just thatmoment that I described online,
which I'll restate here, was amoment that I had with Alex. So

(01:05:43):
my favorite part of Tevis wasactually a few miles from the
finish when I realized we weregoing to make it in time for
sure that we were going to crossall four horses under the finish
line. Not to say that people doget pulled at the finish, just
so you know, they do a final vetcheck at the finish, and if your
horse does not look fit tocontinue. They won't. They will
take your Tevis finish from you.
So passing the final vet checkis the thing, but you at least

(01:06:06):
get to ride under the banner andget a photo of you coming under
the western states 100 flag. Iknew we were going to at least
do that, and we were ridingalong. And last year, when I
wrote Virginia City 100 Iactually led a lot on Alex. And
my my main horse that I'veridden for a long time was

(01:06:27):
Sparta, and she's like, trulycan trust her with anything,
just so solid. And when I rideher, I'm completely relaxed, and
we definitely co regulate eachother in a wonderful way. And
when I was riding Alex, I had toride in the lead at Virginia
City, and it's dark there, andthere's like loose Mustangs. I
mean, we had like wild mustangsrunning over the trail in front

(01:06:49):
of us in the dark, lots ofthings that are very, very valid
to spook at. And Alex can bespooky. And I just kept saying,
Alex is the new Sparta, becauseall the horses know that I
usually ride Sparta, and I waskind of like trying to encourage
him, but also encourage myselfto, like, be relaxed in my body
in the way that I would onSparta, which is like another

(01:07:09):
mental trick I play to make surethat I'm not communicating with
my body inappropriately to Alexso and I always like, Oh, it
works. It's a great tool. Like,if I again, I'll reiterate it.
If you have a horse that youfeel confident on, try to do
that when you're riding a horseyou don't feel confident on. And
it's crazy how much your body,you can feel your body change
when you like, say that sentencein your head, like, I'll say,

(01:07:32):
pretend you're riding Sparta.
And then I'll notice all theselike 10, all this tension I was
holding that I let go of. So on,Alex at Virginia City, and I
kept saying, Alex is the newSparta. And got us through, and
we were riding and kind of outof nowhere, riding in the dark,
and I was thinking, we'reactually going to go under the

(01:07:53):
banner. And I felt like thisquestion in my head. And I don't
feel that the person necessarilytalk in English when they
communicate to me, but my braininterprets it back into English,
and I got this feeling, questionof Alex is the new Sparta
question mark. And I just, like,started crying, and that's where
I actually lost. It was, like,quietly, and I was leading

(01:08:15):
because my amazing friendCarmen, who desperately wanted
me to get a buckle, we are,like, coming up on, like, about
three or four miles from thefinish. And she was like, I'm
just gonna go to the back. Whydon't you go ahead and lead? And
I was like, Carmen, you're doingthat. So I placed in front of
you. Like, what are you thewhole way? And and I just, like,
had this, like, massive momentof gratitude for, like, the

(01:08:37):
effort that Jesse and Sallybrought to the table on their
first Tevis and to Carmen, who Iride, like, so many miles with.
Like, she's just an incredible,credible human being, like,
truly one of my best friends aswell. Like, can't love her and
more, and was having that momentof gratitude for them, but also,
like, for Alex and like, thatdeep connection that we had

(01:08:58):
through the whole ride of justbeing in great communication,
like he the whole ride, like Ihad to get off and help adjust
saddles on horses as the saddlesslid off around corners and and
I actually asked him to standlike in at the beginning of the
ride while there's horses racingpast on trail. And he stood
there without me, holding him,waiting for me. I mean, just

(01:09:21):
like, truly a stellar citizen,like dead broke trail horse the
whole day, and just having thatmoment to like thank him for
that and and it's one thing tothank somebody for something,
but to thank them and have themyou know that they understood
that is truly a gift. Like to beable to like, Give my love and

(01:09:41):
gratitude to him and have himreceive it was, like, just more
than I could ask for. That was Ididn't even need that buckle
like that was such a beautifulmoment. And like, our
relationship is so much deeper.
Like every horse I've done 100miles with, you just become so
close. And I think that's thebeauty of endurance. It's like
tackling adversity in a settingwhere you can get help and

(01:10:02):
assistance and and coming outthe other side like that's I
just love endurance. It's sowonderful. They're truly
spectacular.

Lynn (01:10:14):
Okay, so I just have to say to anybody listening, hit
rewind and go hear what she saidagain about Alex receiving what
it meant for you to receive fromhim that he received it. Because
how many of us don't accept acompliment, or we won't allow
ourselves to receive help, or wewon't allow ourselves to receive

(01:10:35):
somebody's gratitude, and yet,when we don't receive it, we
have taken away the givers gift,

Stevie (01:10:44):
absolutely, absolutely.
That's definitely something I'malways trying to work on, is
accepting love and gratitude,and I think that's something we
all probably have to work on,because otherwise we would know
we were enough and we'd beenlightened, right?

Lynn (01:11:00):
That what enlightenment really is, is just knowing we're
enough as we are. I really

Stevie (01:11:05):
think that's true. I think answering yourself that
you're enough is trueenlightenment.

Lynn (01:11:10):
Well, you know, I the thing I feel is I hear you
describing that receivingfeeling was that you it's, it's
sort of a culmination of almost100 miles of adversity along the
trail. Is there any particularstory you've told us a few, but
any other moments of adversity,things where you questioned,

(01:11:31):
places that you want to callout, that were just moments
where you and that all eight ofyou sort of pushed through
anything in particular?

Stevie (01:11:41):
Yeah, yeah. I think some self growth that happened is I
kind of went in understandingthe goals and understanding what
it feels like to be in astressful situation. And my goal
was, I was going to ride witheveryone and help them as much
as possible, but I've done thatto the detriment of like, self

(01:12:03):
care to myself and the horsethat I'm riding in Tevis, why
not every time, but why it'scontributed to me not finishing
in the past was that I wasputting everyone else before
myself and the horse. And I telleverybody that, like, Hey, I'm
gonna I'm riding for myself aswell this time. So I was clear

(01:12:24):
about my needs and clear aboutwhat I was willing to give
everybody else, and, um,something that I still, I
actually am carrying with methat was like also difficult was
that I actually did that andthat I felt terrible about it.
So the example is that as wewere coming close to cut offs

(01:12:44):
around the canyons Deadwood,some of the volunteers had the
information incorrect in thatthey thought that we had to be
out by 5pm but our car and ourknowledge was that we had to be
in by 5pm and I think we camein, I have the stats right here.
We came in close, but we came into Deadwood at 4:37pm so we

(01:13:07):
were, what is that? 23 minutesor something, ahead of cut off?
Yeah, yeah. We were 23 minutesahead of the cutoff, and we took
some time to cool there. At thatpoint, I was telling because I
had said to everybody, like,it's more important that you get
a buckle than that you would benice to the other riders, like,

(01:13:29):
because it is a little silly.
Like, there are people right?
Like, sticking together as agroup doesn't always make sense.
So I told Jesse, like, go. Likeher and Chuck were pulsing down.
I was like, Go, you have toleave. And same thing to Carmen
a couple times. Hung around waylonger than I would have agreed
because she really wanted tohelp get me through. But I was
like, no go. Like, if you don'tget a buckle because you waited

(01:13:50):
around for me, that's stupid.
And that's like, something I'ddone myself in the past. So I
was like, Go, because we are soclose to cut offs. I was like,
give yourself time if you wantto wait. Like, wait at another
check with water and hay, right?
Like, let your horse recoup asyou wait for us. So I sent Jesse
out ahead of us. So Jesse wentthrough the second part of the
Canyons with Chuck by herself,because Chuck was pulsing down

(01:14:13):
just fine. So I was like, GoCarmen. Same thing. Finally,
Carmen left, because thevolunteers were saying you have
to be out by 5pm or you can'tleave. And we were all so
confused because our card saidsomething else, like our time
cards that we were looking at,and we were getting really
stressed. And Sally on Sonic,Sally and myself had pulled
saddles off to help our horsescool off, and we passed our vet

(01:14:36):
check. But then they're like,you have to be like, riding out
of here on your horse, havingleft at 5pm and it was like
three minutes. And I was like,through Alex to some volunteers,
I'm like, let him eat Smash. AndI was running, sprinting across
Deadwood, grabbing my saddle,saddleing up, and I'm like,
Sally, get your saddle going.

Unknown (01:14:53):
And I'm like, I

Stevie (01:14:55):
have to leave. I'm like, go. And she's like, she's and
then I realized she's still inthe back. Line, and I'm like, Oh
my gosh, she's not going to makeit out. And I was like, that's
not fair. She's waiting at a vetline, like she, you know, as the
vets can go. And I was like,torn, and it's like, that split
second decision, like, do youwait? But then in the volunteer,

(01:15:16):
I was like, Can I wait? Andshe's like, you'll be
disqualified if you wait. And Iwas like, oh, so I saddled up
and rode out. And I was like,Sally, just just go. But I
thought, as I was leavingDeadwood, I had the sinking
feeling. I'm like, oh my god,they didn't make it like they
didn't make it out. And we'reright around, I think it's
volcano Canyon there, around theturns, and all of a sudden, Alex

(01:15:39):
winnies and I hear this Winniebehind us on really far away,
but I can see Sally on Sonic.
And so she, like, made it out ofthere. And I was like, so
thankful she caught up to us.
And we were like, talking. We'relike, because Carmen and I had
talked, I caught up to Carmenleaving because I cantered out
of there, because I was, like,panicked as well. Like, I'm

(01:16:02):
like, if it's 5pm cut off. We'relike, seconds in front of the
cut off. So I'm gonna have tocanter this whole thing. And
Alex was feeling good, so Icantered and caught up to
Carmen, and Carmen and I are,like, back and forth. Like, how
was that the cutoff? Did theychange it? Like, what's going
on? And there had already beensome things happening in the
canyons where it was, like, theopposite was being said, because
we had to wait behind a horsethat actually fell down in the

(01:16:22):
canyon, and someone was we hadan extra hour, so we were so
confused. And there was justconfusion everywhere about what
the cutoff times were, but we'relike, we're gonna go with our
car, because that's supposed tobe the official times, so we
should be okay. Anyhow, Sallycatches up, and then we get into
we go through the Michiganbluff. We find Jesse there
cooling off. So the four of usare back together, and we were

(01:16:43):
back together till the finishfor the most part. But we get to
Michigan bluff, then chickenHawk, and chicken hawks the last
vet check before Forest Hill,which is the one hour hold,
where the horses really get to,like recenter, and we're in
chicken Hawk, and they have,like, the incorrect times posted
there too, like an hour, like,saying that you have to be into

(01:17:03):
Forest Hill. Forest Hill pulsedown by 7:45pm Well, that sign
was from last year when they hada different course. So we were,
like, it was so confusing. Um,so anyhow, same thing happens to
us where they're like, if youdon't leave right now, you're
disqualified. And and Sally,again, is like, in the Met line
with Sonic, and I'm like, Sally,like, I again, felt terrible

(01:17:27):
because, like, this is a riderthat's like, rented a horse for
me that I'm supposed to behelping. And I'm like, do I stay
and possibly get pulled as well?
But like, do so in solidarity,or do I go for it? And I was
like, that was the moment whereI was like, okay, present me
feels like, I don't want toabandon her. But in fact, future
me would be like, Well, that wasstupid. Why would you stay there

(01:17:48):
and get pulled also just insolidarity? So I was like, I'm
leaving her. So I had to leaveSally twice, and she was
amazing, and caught back up and,like, rode out anyways, despite
what the volunteers were saying.
And we happened to get intoForest Hill at 8:16pm, which was
like 30 minutes ahead of cutoff. So we made our time in the

(01:18:10):
hands and and then from there,we were pretty much okay. I
think we only cut it close againat Francisco's because we took a
long time to fall down again,and it was very hot and humid at
night, which was crazy anyhow,so I think that the big moment
of adversity for me was actuallydoing something for me, and that

(01:18:31):
was hard. I think that wasreally hard, and I still am not
maybe okay with it, because Ifeel really guilty about having
left her behind, even though, inthe reality of it doesn't make
sense, so just because you'redoing maybe the right thing for
yourself, you have to know thatwe're so programmed to be people
pleasing that it's not going tofeel good. And so like, kind of

(01:18:57):
the that's that paradoxicalmoment, maybe your intuition is
not right, like, maybe your gutfeelings are not always right,
that sometimes they're soconnected to your programming
that you really need to, like,you need to use your head. So
again, that's like the oppositeof what we usually say, where
it's like, listen to your gutversus your mind. But I use that

(01:19:17):
tool of what it passed me, didso much, paid so much money to
get here and future me is goingto be so upset that I did
something so dumb, so I had touse that past and future mind
game to really make thatdecision in the moment. And it
still didn't feel good. Butoverall, it contributed. You
know, we made it. We all madeit. It was fine.

Lynn (01:19:40):
I think that you just hit on something that's also very
huge, which is still didn't feelgood, and like you said, you
still kind of are haunted by ita little bit. And that's okay,
because I do think we'resometimes sold a bill of goods
that when you make the rightdecision, you're going to feel
good. And I don't think. That'snecessarily true, and I'm

(01:20:02):
drawing as you were speaking, itwas drawing on my experience of
walking my daughter through herdrug addiction, and I had to
make a lot of choices thatdidn't necessarily feel good,
absolutely the right decision.
And today, she coaches parentswho have an adult child and
addiction to make decisions thatlook exactly like what you
talked about, which is, no, I amactually going to leave you

(01:20:24):
here. And in Sally's case, itwas kind of through no fault of
her own right. She was in thevet line because she was in the
vet line. But a lot of timeswhen parents of children with
addiction, or I think aboutpeople at work, oftentimes with
my clients, they have somebodywho isn't pulling their weight
or choosing not to, it's likeyou do have to leave them behind
because they're making thatchoice. And if you don't, you're

(01:20:45):
the Be. You're going to be theone that gets run over or the
one that loses or harmed. Youknow, in a lot of cases, we know
parents who've lost houses,who've not withstanding all the
good intentions, have lost theirchildren and so forth. So I'm
just coming back to, you know,making the right decision
doesn't always feel good. No,still the right

Stevie (01:21:10):
and how messed up is it that I'm so much more okay with
my own failure, like I wouldmuch rather, like my gut
intuition says I'm totally finefeeling because I've, you know,
that's what happened the lastthree Tevis is for me, I was, I
had my own failure and andinstead wanting, like, I'd
rather have my own failure thansomebody else failing, right?

(01:21:33):
And, but then that also begs thequestion, like, Why do I feel
responsible for what someoneelse experiences or has coming
and also coming around to theother thing that I have guilt
about, which we were talkingabout before we started. This
was your experience when youcame out on the boot camp and
road hero and had thatexperience. And this is, this
is, like, kind of my job, like Icompletely am okay with being

(01:21:54):
hurt or having something happento me, but I feel like I am
responsible for everyone'sexperience, because I do host
these camps or have these, youknow, like I am putting myself
in a position of control of thesituation, right? And when that
does not the

Lynn (01:22:10):
way, you do marvelously

Stevie (01:22:13):
well. Thank you. But I still feel like I misread that
situation, and it's soridiculous, because I feel like
I read situations, like, when Ilook at it, this all logically,
right? Like, yeah, we havesuccess. And that means, like,
every time that people get onour horses who are like, 100
mile, not shut down Arabians,and we have, like, 9000 times

(01:22:33):
out of 9001 there's a greatexperience, but that one time
sticks with me, because we havethat negative bias in our head
where I'm like, I can't believeI didn't do that, right? Some
people might

Lynn (01:22:47):
have heard this. Some people might not have heard this
story, because I did tell alittle bit of this story a
couple of weeks ago in my blog.
But can you tell your experienceof the story? Because I would
really like to walk through thisfor people, because I think it i
It was a to me, it was aphenomenal outcome, and and yet,
we both misread a situation. AndI want to talk about that

(01:23:07):
because I actually also misreadit. You said you misread, but so
did I so. But describe your sideof it. I'll tell my side of kind
of what happened on so we wereon a camping trip. It was you
were hosted by you with themarvelous Jesse Dowling was
along Alex Lewis and Eric White,who's an endurance runner or an
ultra runner, and you so it wasfive of us, yeah. So describe

(01:23:29):
kind of what happened with meand Hiro, who we've talked
about. You know, that was theleader of the tennis pack,

Stevie (01:23:37):
yeah? So hero is a horse that we call them. St, Hero most
of the time. A couple of horseshave been honored up to
sainthood, and that means, like,you can pretty much trust anyone
on them. St, Sonic, st, hero.
St, Sparta, those are threesaints out of the eight, and
hero gets called Saint hero inwriting lessons all the time,
because he's exactly that. Andbut there are times when, and in

(01:24:00):
the past, he used to be onhorses pretty difficult to get
on, especially at endurancerides. He'd get really worked
up. But once you're on him, youwere fine, but it was just
performance anxiety thing. He'salways, always been a bit of a
cold back horse. And we, we've,like, looked into that, as far
as like pain and pain managementall that. And there's no kissing

(01:24:23):
spine, nothing like that. Butknowing him, he's actually has
just high anxiety about doinglike he's a very earnest horse,
and that's what makes him soamazing, is he wants to do his
job well. And if he perceivesthat he's in a race situation,
he is very excited to go, and hewants you on and he wants to go.
We also made this situationworse, because we used to let

(01:24:43):
him run solo. Back when Dylanand I were conditioning all the
horses, we would let him gowithout a rider, because he was
so well behaved. And he'llfollow you like a dog, or he'll
lead like a dog, and you cantell him left, right down the
trails like he's amazing. So herode for an. Entire season
without a rider for the mostpart, and ever since that we
started destroyed him that heactually believes, like he

(01:25:04):
shouldn't take a ridersometimes, where he's like, just
let me go. I want to do itmyself. Like I don't need anyone
on board. And he is like that,like, you can just sit there and
like, be on the buckle, andhe'll just do it like, he loves
to endurance race, and he lovesto go down the trail. So he he's
a saint. For that reason, youcan have very little input, if

(01:25:26):
you want, with him. Anyhow, hehadn't been very swirly to get
on in a long time. And as Lynnand I were saddling him up and
getting everyone on horses, Iwas walking around and adjusting
strips, and I, I put myself in abit of a productive struggle
that weekend where I brought mysix year old Valkyrie. And that
was a big leap that I've beenreally afraid to make. Valkyries

(01:25:50):
a whole other story, butbasically having a young horse,
where you're trying to make thattransition from, you know, just
doing little rides with them tobeing a horse. For me, I can't.
I need to be on a horse that Idon't have to think about too
much if I'm teaching for a bootcamp and I felt like fair to my

(01:26:10):
boot camp riders if I'm theretraining my horse. But also, at
what point, there's that pointwhere you have to make the jump
and that horse has to transitioninto being trusted as a horse
that can, can be your, your mainhorse. And for that weekend, I
was like, okay, I can get offand run with her if I need to.
And I had just decided to bringher. So I think I was carrying a

(01:26:33):
bit of anxiety about that. Iknow that Hiro is a little bit
upset too sometimes about horsesthat I choose to be my main
horse, that when it's not him,so I think he's carrying a bit
of that there's, there's a lotof factors leading into why he
was anxious. But I, I waswalking around adjusting

(01:26:53):
stirrups. We were going to putLynn on last. And usually what I
do in Heroes anxious, I get onfirst, and if he plays up at
all, then we work through it,and then he's always good for
the second person to get on. Andfor some reason that whole
weekend being out in that area,he was anxious for mounting. And
we did read that situation. Idid not get on first. And Lynn

(01:27:15):
got up lean forward to put herfoot in the stirrup. And what
did she or do? Like, I washolding, oh, I was holding on to
him, yeah, and I didn't let himgo forward, which is silly, and
he went straight up. But it wasbecause I put a lot of pressure
on him to stand still.

Lynn (01:27:34):
And I think I was actually saying, go forward. Because I
was like, Oh, he wants to move,and if we just get moving, I'll
get this foot in the stirrup. Soyou said, Go. And I said, stop
at the same time. I mean, yousaid stop, and I said, go at the
same time. So where else?

Stevie (01:27:48):
But up exactly. And so he reared up, and Lynn came off,
and then hero kind of reared upover her and got and stepped
over her. But it looked itlooked dramatic.

Lynn (01:28:02):
I was gonna get stepped on. Yeah, it looked like

Stevie (01:28:05):
she was gonna get stepped on, but he is very
careful when around her. But itwas just so shocking, because it
was a horse that you would neverexpect it from and but it was
clear like he was anxious. Andthen I said, stop, and put a lot
of pressure for him to stop. AndLynn said, Go. And of course, he
listened to both of us. He'slike, I'm not going to go
forward, but I'm going to go up.
And yeah, we did. And then hewas more anxious after that

(01:28:29):
because of that experience, ofcourse, so that that haunted me,
just because I had misread thatsituation and not done what was
right. And then I was also like,Darn it, I brought a horse that
I can't put anyone else on, so Ican't ride hero and and we just
had, like, a big shuffle. I hadencouraged Jesse to come out so
that she could bond with ChuckNorris, the horse that she's

(01:28:51):
about to ride for Tevis. And sheended up riding hero like I had
to shuffle everyone around. Andit was all worked out just fine.
But overall, it was just anexperience where I felt like I
misread the situation and and ithaunts me. Oh, interesting,

Lynn (01:29:08):
because i i As I reflected on it, so my experience was
almost exactly the same asyours, which was why, when I
look back, I'm like, Why did Inot see the signals? He wasn't
ready for me to get on and notin that way, and say, Hey, can
we change? Because I'd riddenhim before, and I had him under
the heading of a saint hero,because he was amazing with me

(01:29:29):
in March when I was out there.
And I was sure we were going towalk off a couple of steps, and
then I'd settle in and we'd befine. So as it was, though I
came off, I wasn't hurt. I didcompress my tailbone a little
bit, and it was pretty amazingwhen I stood up and I was like,
Wait, nothing's broken, nothingfeel like anything's hurt. I'm
okay. And then I watched youfigure out what to do, and you

(01:29:54):
looked over at Jesse and said,Jesse, I'm so sorry, but I think
Lynn is going to have to rideChuck. Work, because that was
the only other of the horsesthat would have been good for me
to ride. We know I'm not goingto ride the cocaine bear. I'm
still fairly beginner rider.

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#76 Stevie Delahunt: A Teacher of Grit on Her Tevis Cup Experience

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