#77 Jessie Dowling: A Journey of Passion and Resilience

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Lynn, Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life. And now here's
your host. Lynn Carnes,

Lynn (00:19):
welcome to the creative spirits unleash Podcast. I'm
Lynn Carnes, your host. My guestfor this episode is Jessie
Dowling. She's an endurancerider who just completed the
Tevis Cup last month and theMongol Derby last year. Both of
these events are some of thetoughest horse races in the
world. Now, given that you mightexpect that Jessie's been at

(00:42):
this for a very long time.
However, this is actually arelatively new endeavor for her,
as you will hear in thisconversation, she basically
says, I'm just a girl who loveshorses, and boy did she learn
how to pursue her love. What Ifound really interesting in
speaking with her is how shemade the shift from running her
cheese making business toattempting these grueling races.

(01:03):
These are not the same thing.
This conversation is full ofnuggets of wisdom about just
that topic. At the core, shevalues being present as one of
the most important ways sheshows up in the world. It makes
a difference with horses, as youwill hear, you will also notice

(01:24):
how she breaks things down intosmaller steps. It never seems as
if she's tackling one hugething, but instead she focuses
on the steps of a lot of littlethings. She's also deeply
cultivated her resilience andher physical strength, which I
find inspiring because it showsthat endurance isn't an inborn
trait. It may be a little butit's also a skill that you can

(01:48):
build. So here's Jes biography,what she says about herself.
Jesse Dowling founded and ran anaward winning sheep and goat
dairy and farmstead Creamerynamed fuzzy udder Creamery, and
made cheese from sheep, goat andcow's milk for 13 years in mid
Coast Maine, after 17 years inthe dairy industry, she decided

(02:08):
to make a huge change and pursueher true passion, endurance
riding, training horses andhelping others connect with
horses. She She sold her cheesebusiness at the end of May, and
decided to celebrate by ridingin the 2024 Tevis cup. Jessie
also trained with StevieDelahunt leading up to riding
and completing the 2023 Mongolderby. In the end, I will say

(02:32):
Jessie is making life choicesthat support her in living the
full life that she loves andthat she chooses. We could all
use a little more of that,couldn't we? I hope you enjoy
this podcast with Jesse Dowling.
Jesse Dowling, welcome to thecreative spirits unleashed
podcast.

Unknown (02:50):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to
talk with you.

Lynn (02:53):
I am so excited to talk to you too. Actually, as we were
getting ready to record, we'reboth in rooms with our dogs
beside us, and you have morethan one. I've got one. Some of
the some of our work has been inworking with the animals to get
them settled down. And it and itdawned on me, as you were

(03:16):
elegantly managing your dogs,that there is a mindset and a
skill to going with the flowthat often is in contrast to us
trying to get things done. Andyou are just starting your
second business, and people willhave heard in the introduction

(03:38):
that you've just recently soldyour cheese making business of
17 years. So you were in a getthings done world, and yet
you're beautifully glowing withthe flow, with the animals. So
tell me, how have you learned todo that in such an elegant way?

Unknown (03:58):
Oh, thank I appreciate the reflection? Well, yeah, I
think that I kind ofinadvertently, I've been in the
sheep and goat dairy and cheesemaking business, making sheep
goat and cow's milk cheese forthe past 17 years, but I ran my
business for just 12. Just wantto clarify that. But was in the
industry for that long, and,yeah, I never really thought

(04:20):
about how much I was learningjust working with animals every
day, day in and day out, and howmuch I had learned, but when I
started on my horse trainingjourney, everything started to
click More, and I realized thatthat I did actually gain a lot
from just being with animalsevery day, all day. So I
definitely, definitely feel likejust spending time with animals.

(04:42):
You start to learn how to managethem in a in a calm way. Yeah.
And one of the, oh, sorry, goahead. No, go ahead. One of the
first things I was taught at thefirst sheep dairy I worked at in
2007 was, if the animals aremaking you upset, you're doing
something wrong. Mm. Uh,

Lynn (05:02):
so if the animals are making you upset, you're doing
something wrong. Now, how doyou, how do you get yourself out
of that quandary? Because I knowsometimes when I feel like I'm
doing something wrong, I canspiral into making things worse,
trying to get myself out of it.
Well, I

Unknown (05:17):
guess for taking, taking, like any, any type of
you know that it's never thehorse's fault. It's never the
dog's fault. You know, it's uslooking at, you know, it's
usually help, you know, helpingpeople with people problems, not
helping people with horseproblems. You know, it's like
the animal is doing what theanimal does. And if we are

(05:38):
reacting to that, then thatmeans that there's something
about our management or ourdesign or our expectations that
is perhaps not matching ourreality. So that's that's always
how I bring all my work withanimals, whether it's on the
sheep and goat dairy, which I nolonger do, but I still have some
goats, and then I have somehorses, and I'm just starting a
small training business, butjust kind of, kind of seeing

(06:02):
where we're really at, andlooking at what animal do we
have today, and and alwaystrying to come from a from a
clear mind, instead ofexpectations on what I want to
do or or what I think the animalshould be doing.

Lynn (06:18):
So from a clear mind, can you say more about that, because
I've had an epiphany in the lastfew days with one of my business
coaching clients, who's also ahorse person, who has been
working on clearing her mind,and noted that she was
dramatically more effective withher horse. And I had this I

(06:40):
don't know why it's taken methis long to make this direct
thought, and maybe I've had itbefore, and I just think it's a
new one, but it's like, oh, youknow when, when we're beating
ourselves up all that self talk,the horses hear that. They know
it. They do. They feel it. Andso a clear mind means you can
have clear communication. So howhave you learned how to clear

(07:01):
your mind, because I've actuallywitnessed it. We rode together
in June and at Stevie's place.
We'll talk about that in a bit.
But I love seeing that have avery clear mind.

Unknown (07:10):
I think the best teachers for me are horses,
because in order to have a goodtime with the horses, being
present is the number one thingthat will help us. So, you know,
I do, I do certain things to getmyself ready for short having
having a daily yoga practice andtrying to exercise regularly. I
picked up running when I wastraining for the MongoDB after a
20 year hiatus, and that hasreally changed my life. I

(07:32):
definitely wasn't always thisway. I was very reactive and was
really struggling running abusiness with eight employees,
but as I started down myhorsemanship journey of learning
how to connect with my horses ina more, you know, just to slow
her away, it's kind of changedeverything about my focus and
and, you know, it kind ofhappened naturally in some ways,

(07:53):
just over the years working withthe sheep and goat dairy. But it
also, you know, in the last fewyears, has been more intentional
about, yeah, just reallyrelishing and being present and
how important that is, and howthe our time and our presence is
all is the most precious gift wehave to offer anyone and and to
present is, is what the dogs. Ihave six dogs right now, and

(08:16):
each one of them would reallylike me to be present with them
and give them my time every day.
So I try, even if it's little,just to give each one of them
some individual attention. Andthen that means a lot

Lynn (08:27):
your full presence,

Unknown (08:29):
yeah, does

Lynn (08:30):
not even a moment where you because I know I've, I've
been on a journey where it wasvery difficult for me to be
present, and I was very reactiveand very goal driven and very
annoyed with people who did notline up with my goals and so
forth. And it's hard to getthere. But do you remember a

(08:52):
first moment where youexperienced presence that made
you want more of it,

Unknown (09:02):
trying to think to a specific moment,

Lynn (09:05):
I think, or it could be any it doesn't have to be the
first moment, because who wouldever know anyway, but just, you
know that transition. Because Ican imagine, as people might
listen to this, that are seekingpresence. It's, it's one of
those things that you know itwhen you have it, but it's hard
to grab. It's like thatbutterfly, yeah, right, Chase. I

Unknown (09:28):
can think of it actually. Um, so one of the
first things I did that changedeverything for me on my
horsemanship journey was I tooka Chris Lombard. He's a local
trainer in my State of Maine, alocal trainer, and he has a
connecting with horsesworkshops, like a three day
workshop. I brought my horse,Maggie, who I had trained
myself, but very slowly anddidn't really know what I was

(09:49):
doing. I worked a little bitwith some help, but we had a lot
of time to, like, sit quiet withthe horse and meditate. And in
that time, it was the first timeI really saw. Her, and I
realized how much she needed myattention from from that time
there it was like it was more ofa knowing than anything, of just

(10:10):
like this horse has been herefor me, like she was nine during
the workshop. She's 13 now, andthere was a moment where I just
felt like she she had beenwaiting for me to to become
present, and then ourrelationship has changed so much
since then. I don't know if Ican really give it the words it

(10:31):
needs, but it's like as if shehad always been wanting my
attention and I had been justlike, focused on my business and
and been focused on everythingelse external. And you know, I
would go and I would groom herand brush her and ride her, but
it was never, it was never inthe way that things are now
where, yeah, not really spendingthat time and having no
expectations of what we'redoing, of just being

Lynn (10:54):
and it's almost as if she was looking at she going, now,
there you are,

Unknown (10:58):
yes, yes, and she needed me, and I didn't even
realize it, and I and, I mean,she's the most amazing part. I'm
going to cry

Lynn (11:05):
about it, because I just love I know, I'm sitting here
tearing up hearing, yeah, it'sjust,

Unknown (11:10):
you know, and I have had these visions, okay, this
is, this is like, there was atime where my Creamery was in
another place. I had started myCreamery in one town with a farm
partner, and things had it wastwo years into my business, and
things went really badly, and Ihad to leave and set up in
another place. And I had an,like, a little bit of a

(11:32):
therapist, but she was a littlebit more Woo, and we did this
kind of exercise where she kindof, like leaned me in different
directions, and I was, like,using, she was asking questions,
and like, using my body movementto decide what I wanted. And all
I remember this was like 1012,years ago, I could see Maggie's
face, and it was about, like, doI want to keep animals at this

(11:52):
point? And this is like my lifewas kind of falling apart. Then
I was losing one farm and hadto, you know, scramble and do
another thing. And even thoughthat was like 1213, years ago, I
knew like her, her, her image inmy mind, was there, and I didn't
really connect into it untillike 10 years later that she was
asking then for me to bepresent. And I ended up

(12:15):
resetting up a new farm inanother town and starting my
business over. And Maggie andand her sister Sadie were on the
side for years. But it wasn'tuntil, wasn't until that that
workshop, many years later, thatI realized that she had been
waiting for me that whole time,the whole time. Yeah, and now my
I'm setting my life intentionsto she's part of it. So yeah,

(12:36):
yeah. I don't know if I'm doingthis justice, but oh

Lynn (12:39):
no, I feel like you are.
It's, I mean, and I don't knowwhat justice is for a story like
this, but you're not missingyour life anymore. No,

Unknown (12:50):
no. But I was for a long time just focused on
results and focused on trying tomake a business that doesn't
have a high margin of, you know,it's, you know, dairy is a
grueling industry, and there'snot a lot of room for success.
You know, you have to really bevery, you have to be really,

(13:12):
it's a lot of work, and

Lynn (13:14):
it's a low margin business, that's a lot of work,

Unknown (13:17):
exactly, and you can make it work. And I did, and I'm
really grateful that I was ableto sell it, but I'm really
excited to live my life in adifferent pace now, yeah,

Lynn (13:27):
well, one of the other things that struck me, though,
and I've had this questionfloating around in my mind,
around you and your ability forendurance, is the resilience
that you have. And so just like,I feel like there's a whole
story of what it took for you toreset up your farm when things

(13:48):
didn't go well, and I'm justpicking up on what I just heard
you say. But like, what did ittake from you to even though you
weren't being present then yetMaggie was waiting on you? Yeah,
yeah, to turn around and like,get take a blow. That means that
you have to actually go toanother city and another town or

(14:09):
another town and start yourbusiness over. What did you draw
on? How did you cultivate theresilience and strength to do
that? Because my guess is a lot,if not, most people would just
throw their hands up and say,Well, that wasn't for me. Yeah,

Unknown (14:27):
I guess I am not. I've never been one to be a quitter.
That's definitely, I mean, maybeit's the stubbornness. It's one
of those things where you have,you have two sides of strength.
Is your weakness, right? Likebeing really stubborn, you know,
it can be your blessing. It canalso, you know, not sometimes
it's hard to have the humilityto know that the way you're
going isn't the right direction,but in but in that case, I think

(14:50):
with farming, I I just have thatsheer perseverance and that
drive and that belief that beingpart of the local food scene and
producing food and creating ajobs. People and trying to do
things ethically. I had aconviction and a passion that I
believed in, and I think that'sthe trick for me, is that, you
know, for many years, I believethat farming was my calling and

(15:11):
what I was supposed to be doing,and so that's what I got up in
the morning, and I was excitedto do it. And, you know, while I
was in the cheese making world,I was also the president of the
main cheese Guild, and I wasbuilding the main cheese
industry, and that's just how Iam, like, if I get into
something, I'm going to getreally into it, and I'm going to
put everything into it. Butduring the pandemic, there
weren't as many events, and Istopped working as the president

(15:32):
for the cheese Guild, and I hadmore time with my horses. So
then that's where, that's whereeverything shifted. Was that
that time, but I think I'm justthe kind of person that's going
to put my whole self intowhatever I'm doing, because I
can only do things I reallybelieve in.

Lynn (15:47):
Yeah, and it sounds like that was a calling for you,
which is a really high levelcalling, because I for one, and
I know I'm not alone. Are. I'mconcerned about our food system,
and there's a lot of pressure tohave food be cheap, and yet, if
you look at what it takes toproduce our food, it's not

(16:10):
simple, and it's like thedownward pressure on prices is
creating even less and lessnutritious food. Oh, exactly.
And so for the sake of money,we're trying to to make
ourselves sick, basically,

Unknown (16:25):
yeah, and it doesn't work. You know, I the farmers,
they get into it because theybelieve in what they're doing.
You know, some, some of them areborn into it, but ones like me
that kind of came into farmingafter college because we want to
make the world a better place.
And we're like, Well, growinglocal food is the way to do it,
because we can feed people, andthis is a way that we can
directly make a difference, andthat was kind of my whole goal.
But the problem is, is thatyou're absolutely right in order

(16:48):
to create a product, to grow afruit or a vegetable or raise an
animal in a loving, humane andkind way that is good to the
earth and to the people that areworking costs more money than
the average consumer is going towant to pay. And yeah, it's an
it's a whole thought ofexternalized costs. You know,
with any with any industry, ifyou externalize your costs,

(17:10):
that's how you're going to makethings profitable. But the
problem is, is that who ishurting our environment, our
workers, our farmers, and themental health strains on farmers
is something that people don'ttalk about. And that's kind of
that the mental health aspect iswhat kind of got me into seeking
the horse world and seeking theadventure of the Mongol derby.

Lynn (17:33):
Yeah, and we're gonna, we're gonna talk at length about
that here shortly, but I canidentify just in a small way,
because we have chickens, andyou know, the grocery store eggs
are, what, $3 a dozen, unlessyou get the high end organic
ones around here, most peoplefor their organic eggs charge $6
a dozen. $5 a dozen. Sorry, butwhen I look at my costs, and

(17:57):
especially just just the cost ofwhat it what we had to build to
keep the chickens from gettingeaten every day by foxes and
raccoons and so forth, I willnever make money in ever.
There's no way there's anyprofit at a small scale.

Unknown (18:13):
No and, and that was kind of the experiment I went
into the small farmingexperience with, was, Can I do
it at a small scale and besuccessful and, you know, and
make money and still be ethical.
And I found that I could but atthe expense of my well being, at
the expense of my my mentalhealth, because something has to
give you know, if I paid myworkers a good wage and I took

(18:36):
care of my animals, well, then Iwas the one that was suffering.
And I think that a lot offarmers don't look at that. You
know, farmers don't takevacations, they don't pay
themselves well. They're kind ofthe externalized cost that, you
know, you go to the farmer'smarket and you're like, Oh,
thank you farmer. And the farmeris, like, living this life of,
like, basically, you know,substandard living, because that
they believe in it, and they andthey believe that they can't

(18:59):
take a vacation. They can't taketime for themselves. And I watch
basically, a ton of miserablefarmers around me, and I was
like, I don't want to be thisanymore.

Lynn (19:08):
Oh, I can understand. I was just at the farmer's market
this last week, and this is whatblew me away. There's a man
who's out in the field all daylong, and he had on his table
fresh corn, fresh tomatoes,blackberries, figs,
scuppernongs, you know. So I'mpicking out my stuff. And I had,
I bought more than I had stuffedthe cash in my pocket, so I

(19:29):
pulled out and I said, Oh, I ama couple dollars short. And he
goes, Don't worry about it. AndI'm like, Oh, no. He said, No,
next time, you don't worry. Andhe was I said, No, I'll put some
of these tomatoes back. No, youyou take them. And literally,
all I had to do was go to my carand get more cash. But he was
not going to have it that I wasgoing to tell him I was going to
get, give and get more cash. SoI just left, and then came back,

(19:50):
and I brought him more than Iwould have paid him, because
this guy is working so hard. Andfor all the stuff, I brought
home a lot of calories, of food.
And. It was less, still, lessthan $20

Unknown (20:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Lynn (20:03):
I'm thinking, how's he making a living?

Unknown (20:07):
You know, it, I mean, that's a whole other podcast of
how you how that there's so muchto that. There's so much but,
but I think the short of it isthat you are not paying the full
cost and some something,something is being, you know,
it's either the environment,it's the workers, or it's the
people and and, or the animals,and that's some something gives

(20:30):
somewhere there, there's

Lynn (20:31):
just something. You're extracting something in order to
do it, make it work exactly. Imean, that is an advantage of
something, the

Unknown (20:40):
nature of capitalism, and it works well when you're
working with inanimate thingsthat are not alive. You know
that that seems to work well inthe factory model. But when
you're talking about, you know,living beings, you know that's
that's a tough one.

Lynn (20:55):
Not, not okay, not okay.
You know, when I first startedworking with Bruce Anderson, he
said something along the lines,and this was his complaint with
the horse world is in general,was that people are taking
something that is less and usingit to enrich themselves, rather
than taking something that isless and lifting it up. Yeah,
and I don't think he means lesslike less equal, but that you

(21:19):
perceive as less? Yes, I cantake advantage of this animal.
And you know, because the animalis depending on me for food or
whatever it kind of has to goalong. And so his, yeah, I say
his big complaint in the worldis that we are taking something
that is less and using it toenrich ourselves,

Unknown (21:44):
yeah, and I would rather see at least the animals
as my partners, but also thenatural world, you know, the
whole thing, yeah, the wholething,

Lynn (21:52):
you know, there was, there was a time when, like, I was,
you know, I could kill bugs. Icould not worry about cutting
down trees and so forth. And Idon't do very well with either
one. Now, bugs get moved out ofmy house unless it's a swarm
advance, and I can't really movethose. That's a different game.
But that's that hadn't happenedmuch so, so you mentioned the
Mongol derby. It finished, what?
A week ago,

Unknown (22:16):
when we're this year's just finished. A few days ago,

Lynn (22:19):
just recorded I was following it on Facebook, so I
saw your comments. You talkedabout how you were so addicted
to the race, you probably weremore addicted to me, but I've
never been so interested in itas I was this year. I followed,
you know, I was follow. I'velearned in the last year, I've
learned how to follow dots onendurance races. Man, so many of

(22:43):
the stories. So first of all,before we even start talking
about the Mongol Derby, forthose who are listening and
don't know what it is, can youdescribe the Mongol derby?

Unknown (22:53):
Sure. So it's, it's, uh, tagged as the world's
longest horse race. It's setover 1000 kilometers in
Mongolia, the Mongolian stepriding Mongolian horses. So 1000
kilometers is about 621 milesfor folks in the US. And you're
riding 29 different Mongolianhorses, about 25 miles each. And

(23:16):
you're using the endurance rulesof vetting in as you come into
each horse station, you have tomake sure that your horse's part
rate comes down to below 56beats per minute. Animal Welfare
is seen as a really high, highimportant part of the race, but
you're self navigating with ahandheld GPS and choosing your
own adventure kind of along thatway and staying with Mongolian

(23:37):
herding families. So it's kindof like the ultimate modern day
adventure at kind of recreatingGenghis Khan's ancient postal
route.

Lynn (23:46):
That's that was one of the things that was interesting to
me, and I didn't, I didn't knowtill I met you in June, when you
talked about the Genghis Khanpostal route, is that this is
how they used to get informationin Mongolia. We know what the
Pony Express in America isexactly but it was started many
times before, many years before.
I don't know what era did helive in? I'm

Unknown (24:07):
11. I think it was 11th century. Yeah, century and

Lynn (24:12):
and horses. There I read a fiction book called she who
rides horses, by Sarah VirginiaBarnes, I don't and she was
actually on my podcast, and it'sset many years ago in the I
think it's the Mongolian step.
It's a historical fiction abouthow it might have been that
people first started ridinghorses. Oh, cool. And so it's

(24:33):
possible she's a historian, soshe's not making stuff up around
the history part that that iswhere horse riding started, in
the first place, where humansfirst said to these animals,
Hey, you want a partner?

Unknown (24:51):
Yeah, I I think that's a fascinating topic. I think the
first recorded horse riding wasin Kazakhstan, but that's just
next. Or to Mongolia? Yeah,yeah. I envision the
domestication of dogs and horsesas being more of a mutual
partnership than in a dominatingway that we see a lot of times.

Lynn (25:12):
Yes, well, especially in today's world. But, but back to
Mongolia. So when did you findout about the race. What made
you decide that you wanted to dothis thing, and then I wanted
how you prepared as well. Butlet's just start talking about
some of that story and how yougot there.

Unknown (25:31):
Okay, so I have to give you, like, a little bit of the
backstory of, like, why I wouldbe seeking to do something so
extreme in 2021 I'd learned howto make cheese from another
farm, and worked there for fiveyears called Appleton Creamery.
And on that farm my mentor soyears later, my mentor is trying
to train another younger cheesemaker to to take over for her as

(25:54):
she is needing to retire. And Igot a call in 2021 in July that
the woman that was going to betaking over that farm had
committed suicide, and I had togo and pick up all the goats on
that farm and bring them to myfarm that week. And that
included two extra livestockGuardian dogs in addition to the

(26:15):
four I already had. So it wasvery life changing, and it made
me realize very quickly a lot ofthings about what I was doing
and what life we were leading.
And then there was anothercheesemaker suicide, not even 18
months later, in the same town.
So it just really hit me like aton of bricks that the industry

(26:38):
that I was in was not healthyand to have you know, for anyone
who's dealt with suicide intheir their community, you will
know that it the giant hole isripped into your, into the web
of your, of your life. And itjust it made me look at life a
lot differently. And it was alsoduring the pandemic. So I had
had more time with my horsesthan I had normally had. And so

(26:58):
the combination of asking myselfthe big questions of, do I want
to end up where I can't use myhands because of arthritis,
because I'm in my 70s and Ican't keep milking animals? Or
do I want to end up, you know,where I've reached my point
where I just can't do thisanymore, and as I spent more
time with horses, I stumbledupon Surprise, surprise, the

(27:20):
work Schiller's journey onpodcast. And on that podcast, I
heard Stevie Delahunt, in herApril interview, talk about
training people for the Mongolderby. And, you know, I had
heard it mentioned before aboutthe Mongol Derby, and I was
like, that's for professionalriders. And I am not a
professional writer. I am abackyard trail rider. I like
horses. I, you know, rude as akid, and slowly train my own

(27:41):
horses, and I just love horses.
Never did I think that theMongoDB would be for me, but
when I heard that Stevie hadboot camps and that you could
sign up for them, I thought Icould just do that. And so I
signed up for the boot camp. Andthen I started finding friends
in the area, older folks thathad been doing endurance in
Maine, and started riding withthem. And as I did that, I

(28:01):
decided I would apply for theMongol Derby, and I rode my
first limited distance, 30 mileride, and it was so much fun on
my horse, Maggie. And then thenext day, I got an interview
from candy, who works for theMongol Derby, and she said I was
in so that was in 2022 I endedup at my first boot camp with

(28:23):
Stevie in August of 2022 and loand behold, I couldn't believe
it, but work Shiller wasactually at my boot camp. And
that just felt like one of thosethings, like I had been
listening to that podcast andkind of exploring the books that
were recommended, and I justfelt like, Huh, I'm like things
are going in the rightdirection, things are moving.
And as I make new decisions,things kind of open up for me.

(28:45):
And here I am with people that Ireally admire and respect, and
I'm learning alongside them. Itjust felt like I felt like
manifestation was working in mylife, and that and that I was
going in a direction that feltright. So that was kind of the
beginning of, of, what, of myjourney towards the Mongo Derby,

Lynn (29:04):
that that's incredible.
How shocked were you to seeWarwick there after you'd been
listening to his podcast?

Unknown (29:10):
I just with all the things, especially with, I can't
remember who said, the attentionintention, no tension of
manifest a price. Yeah, I justfelt like that. Okay, this is
the way, and I'm going to justkeep vibing on this. And so I
use that as my mantra for therest of the year, and I just
followed, you know, I ended uptraining with Martin black in
November of that year because Iknew I needed to work on my

(29:33):
horsemanship skills, and I went,I went back to train with Stevie
several more times. Ended updoing several races with her. I
ended up fundraising for atherapeutic riding place that
had a program working on endingor drawing attention to veteran
suicide in Chicago. They'recalled brave hearts riding and
their trail to zero ride they doin different cities all over the

(29:56):
country. I was fundraising forthem, so I visited them. And
Martin black did a workshop forthem there, and I got to, I got
to shadow and do it with them,and it was amazing. So I just
kind of kept, kept seeing wherethe where the trail led me. And
I just got to do a lot ofamazing things on my journey to
train, train for the derby. AndI feel like through that, it

(30:16):
really changed my life. I alsowas seeing a polyvagal therapist
at the time, because I wasreally looking at my own nervous
system, and I was, you know, Iwas in that state of fight,
specifically, fight for a reallylong time. But this kind of
putting together all the piecesof my horsemanship journey and
training for the Mongol Derby, Istarted to really be able to

(30:39):
come into the president more andthings have really changed.

Lynn (30:42):
Yeah, well, I'm sure that absolutely helped, because our
nervous systems sort of hijackus sometimes, and if we don't
understand that, it's ournervous system sort of operating
in a protective mode, we thinkit's reality. And we've
actually, you know, the we weretalking earlier about the way

(31:04):
sort of society works. It's kindof designed to hijack our
service nervous systems for thesake of, you know, what we're
supposed to contribute tosociety. I know when I worked in
banking, pretty much the messagewas, hey, we're going to pay you
really well as long as you dowhat we want you to do, and
we're going to pretend like wewant you to give us good ideas,
but you mostly have to go along.
And if you won't do that, don'tworry, we'll find somebody else.

(31:27):
And you might, you know, the theunsaid thing was, and you might
end up on the street becausethis was a good job and you
should have kept it Yeah, andthat's just hijacking the
nervous system saying, Hey, keepthis person in fight, flight or
freeze, and then do whatever

Unknown (31:41):
we want them to do.
Yeah, and it, and it's so easyto unconsciously be in those
states and not even realize it.
And I think what really going tothe polyvagal therapist really
helped me was just being able totake a moment to be like, what
state Am I in right now? Am Ireactive like, what you know?
And if I know, if I find myselfgetting upset or angry at
people, I find that it's likebecause I'm in that, you know,

(32:02):
that sympathetic state, and Ineed to do something to reset
myself. Yeah,

Lynn (32:08):
before we hear, I want to hear about the Derby, of course,
but I want, I would love to hearbecause I think this is going to
be relevant, because it probablyhad lots of opportunities on the
derby. Do you have a good way toquickly reset yourself. Like,
what is your what is your go tostrategy to when you recognize
you're in a reactive state,bring yourself back to center.

(32:28):
Well,

Unknown (32:28):
sometimes it's just time. Like, if I'm starting
like, I find that I get thesometimes the worst things are
at the end of the day, when I'mtired and I realize, you know,
I'm spiraling out. Everythingseems like it's, you know,
everything seems wrong, youknow. And I all the self doubt
comes in, and I'm like, youknow, if I just go to bed right
now and stop, you know, take abreak. So as I'm walking away,

(32:50):
instead of, you know, it's easyas a stubborn person to be like,
I have to finish. I have to dothis, you know. And it's like,
maybe just take some space. Takesome time. Take a deep breath.
That's

Lynn (32:58):
a one I know. I know. I think it might have been Anne
Lamont that said, you know, whenyou're feeling like that,
sometimes it helps just to gomake yourself a sandwich. Yeah,

Unknown (33:08):
maybe you're hungry. I get angry, you know? And it
could be

Lynn (33:12):
because, if we're what I know for sure is when I am full,
meaning that I am fed, I'mrested, I have a sense of well
being. My decisions are very,very different than when I'm
drained and pushing myself toofar.

Unknown (33:30):
And the other place I get the most like, good energy
from is just spending time withmy animals. Like, if I just go
and sit with one of my dogs andjust like, just be with them,
that can really change thingsfor me, for my day, or just go
out to the pasture and justlike, hang out with Sadie, you
know, just,

Lynn (33:49):
yeah, that's amazing. So So after you how many times did
you train, or what was thelongest ride you did before you
showed up in Mongolia? Tell meabout getting ready for because
this is 1000 kilometers. Youknow, going from 30 miles to
1000 kilometers is a pretty bigjump.

Unknown (34:08):
Yeah. So, yeah. So the first, the first race I did, was
just 30 miles. And then in thespring, no, and then the fall, I
bought, I loved Arabian so much.
After riding with Stevie, Ibought a race brain Arabian that
was too much horse for his ownerto train on. His name's Jelly
Bean, and I love him. Was one ofmy favorite spur of the
decisions I made. I was in theairplane coming back from from
my first boot camp in August of2022 on the phone with a woman

(34:32):
in New York who had an Arabianshe was trying to find a home
for. And I just, you know,decided to go down the next week
and get him, and I'm reallyhappy I did. So I trained him,
got him conditioned for a 30mile in the fall, and then in
the spring, I flew back out toOregon, and I rode Alexander
Hamilton, who, oh, wow, one ofthe amazing horses of Stevie's

(34:52):
team, in a 75 mile ride, and forthe grizzly mountain ride in
April. Now, and that was myfirst long ride. And then we did
another one in May. I attemptedthe Marion Anna 100 mile ride
and and I was on Alexanderagain, but we only made it to my
own 90 because he was having ahard time pulling pulsing down

(35:14):
with his heart rate. So he was afew beats per minute higher than
the required amount. I can'tremember if it was 56 or 50 or
60 at this particular ride, butwe got pulled at mile 90. But I
figured, you know, I had gone 75miles in one day, 90 miles
another day. The average day onthe derby was about 6575 miles.
So for my goal, I had, I wasfine, because I was like, Okay,

(35:37):
I know what it's like to dowhole day of the derby. So I've
got one out of 10. You know,it's that, yeah. And the longest
journey started by the firststep, right? So, you know, I got
the first day down. And thenright before I left, about two
weeks before, I left forMongolia in 2023 for the Derby,
I did a two day 30 miles. I rodeMaggie on the first day, 30

(35:59):
miles of the firecracker ride inMaine, and then I rode jelly in
on the Sunday, another 30 miles.
So I kind of was like, Okay,well, that's a two day. Now I've
got a two day. So, you know, Ithink between that and the
fitness training and doing thefew long rides that I had done,
so at that point, I had donefive endurance rides to two

(36:21):
proper endurance and three,four, yeah, four, limited
distance rides. So yeah, thatthat made me feel like I was
ready. Yeah.

Lynn (36:31):
Well, the so first of all, we have, in case people did not
listen to my last podcast withStevie della hunt, where she
talked about Alexander Hamilton,who she just finished the Tevis
cup with 100 mile race. It washer first time to actually go
under the banner. And he isalso, she said he did not show
up for her as his alter ego,cocaine bear. So riding him is

(36:55):
no small thing. He was, he wasout with us. Alex Lewis was
riding him when we were outtogether in June. So that's,
that's a that's a lot of horseto ride. I just know him, and
he's, he's fantastic, but he's alot of horse.

Unknown (37:10):
I love him. He's got this motor trot. I mean, the
standard bred Arab cross, if Iwould definitely snap one up if
one was available, because theyare nice. They're just so strong
and and the standard breadmakes, well, it's funny with
Alex, you'd think it makes themmore like even headed, but
maybe, maybe not with Alex, butnormally, I think it would help
with the temperament thestandard bread, yeah, yeah,

Lynn (37:32):
exactly. So, so that all that's great. Now, what you
haven't talked about, though, interms of the preparation, you've
got sort of some of the lengthand the endurance in place, but
those Mongolian horses are notthe same as our horses. In other
words, they're they're not likeI've watched this, I've watched

(37:53):
a lot of videos, and sometimesthey buck and people come off
and they're hard to get on. Andfrom what I can tell, once you
get into on and start going, youkind of need to keep going.
There's not a lot of, like,arena work here where we're
like, well, we're going to trotfor a minute, and then we're
going to stop, and then we'regoing to do some circles, and
then we're going to stop up, andthen we're going to, it's like,
you get on and you flat out go.
So just grab until you go tothat. Yeah.

Unknown (38:16):
So actually, I did a lot for that. So the first thing
I did was I went out and rodewith Martin black, and in the
first four minutes, a four yearold quarter horse, thorbred
Cross named Trento, taught mevery, very clearly that pulling
on horses faces was a bad idea.
He bucked me off right away. Andfrom then on, I realized that I
needed to stop being such a, youknow, traditional English rider,
and get off the horse's face.

(38:39):
Let the horse basically get outof the way the horse. So that
was really helpful, learning adifferent way of communicating
than just direct contact. Sothat was one and then the other
thing is, Stevie recommendedthat I go and train with her
trainer. So she trained withSolange Ellis at Horse Haven
stables in Ohio when she wastraining for the Mongol derby.

(39:00):
And so I went and did a threeday clinic with her, and her
part her co instructor came andwe worked on my rider position.
And so, you know, a lot of a lotof ways to not fall off a horse
that's bucking is in leaningback. You know, one of the
things that salon says, like,Well, what a roto rodeo riders
do? They lean back. And, youknow, you're most likely to fall

(39:23):
off the horse going over theshoulder. And the biggest, you
know, besides being bucked offin the Mongol Derby, the other
big danger is the Marmot holes.
But what I found after, youknow, once I got there, was that
if you're if you have a goodposition, and your pelvis is not
if you're not doing the DuckButt, but your foot pelvis is
flipped the other way, andyou're able to sit back. The
horse can go down on its frontlegs into the Marmon hole, and

(39:44):
it's able to lift itself up andkeep going, if you're not
impeding its movement by sittingover its shoulder. So those are
the most important things. Wasjust changing how I rode, and
now, actually, I was explainingto someone who was a bit more of
a nervous rider the other. Daythat I was working with about
what I do when a horse is kindof getting up like that, and,
you know, getting a little bithard to ride is I kind of go

(40:06):
through a body scan. I'm like,okay, are my heels down? Yes.
Check, alright. Well, where's mypelvis? Am I? Am I? Am I in a
way where I can be sitting back,okay, you know, am I breathing?
Okay, check, I'm breathingright? My shoulders back. Check,
alright. So I kind of have this,I kind of train my body to go
into this kind of body scan.
Anytime I feel like the horse isgoing up and getting up in

(40:28):
energy, like I am going to bringmyself down and I'm going to
think through, where's my body,and that's kind of how I go
through anytime where the horseis is getting more energy than I
feel that I'm, you know,starting to feel a little bit
uncomfortable. Then I gothrough, where's my body? Okay?
Because it's really hard to falloff if you're in the right
position.

Lynn (40:46):
That's actually really good to know. I've actually had
this happen. I I've had a coupleof horses trip with me, and
being back makes all thedifference. They can come right
back up if you're not on theirshoulders Exactly.

Unknown (40:59):
And it's something that, you know, it's a small
thing, but I basically, what Idid was I, I trained my muscle
memory to go there, so anytime Iget scared, instead of going to
the fetal position, which more,that's what we normally do, I
train myself to do that otherposition. And that's, that's
made up. Yeah, you

Lynn (41:14):
know that? What's funny? I think I've done the same thing,
but, but I sort of learned thatfrom flying, because,
interestingly enough, it's theopposite in flying if you, if
you're, if you're playingstalls, their air is no longer
going over the wings, and theautomatic reaction is to pull
back. But what you actually haveto do is put the nose down so
that you can start getting thatair back over the wings, and

(41:36):
then you recover from the stallthat way. And sometimes you have
to do that quite close to theground, but if you don't, you're
going to pancake into theground. So you develop new
muscle memory, just like youjust described. You have to find
you have to kind of make theright thing to do become your
autopilot.

Unknown (41:53):
Yes, exactly. That's what it is. Yeah, mine sounds
so,

Lynn (42:01):
so you got you kind of checked all the boxes then,
because you worked on your riderposition, you worked on your
endurance, you worked on now,let me ask a question as what I
consider myself still a feral,fairly newbie rider with a with
a Mongolian horse, if you doneed to stop, is there a way to
stop them, and can you do it?
Especially with that being ontheir face? I don't know what

(42:23):
they're what they're doing,what's something like that, but
how do you do it? Still use the

Unknown (42:29):
reins. It's just that, you know, I think all horses
appreciate it if you're not upin their face all the time,
yeah, but so, like, it's allabout strategy. So when you
leave a horse station, the horseis going to be really fresh, and
this is the way it's going to bewith any young horse. And
they're going to if you can getthem to go in the direction that
you want to go like hopefullyit's going towards the next

(42:50):
horse station. Let them get thatenergy out if they want to
gallop, let them go. Let them gowhatever speed and and to
another angle. It's reallyimportant to not ask them to go
at a faster speed than whatthey're offering, because that's
going to mean they're going tomean they're going to poop out
later. Yeah, so let them gowhatever speed they want to go
so that that's like that outgallop. Let them do that, but
after about a few miles,sometimes 10 miles, maybe more,

(43:13):
with some horses, so you gottastop and take a pee break. Once
they've kind of gotten theirinitial fire out of the way, and
they've kind of run it through,then you can be like, Okay, you
can, you know, give them alittle pressure on the reins. We
can talk, yeah, and it's fine,you know, most of the time if I
needed to stop into thebathroom, because, you know,
some of the food there made youhave to go a little bit faster

(43:34):
than normal, I was able to getoff and get back on. And no
problem. But if you try to getoff before they've run their
kind of initial energy courseout. That's when you can have
trouble.

Lynn (43:46):
Yeah, I Well, that was one of the things I was thinking
about. Was, how, how do we, howdo we take care of our bathroom
needs, especially when you'reeating unusual food that could
cause unusual reactions in thegut. It

Unknown (44:00):
is, you know, the step toilet is vast, but there's, you
know, you can go anywhere.
There's no you hold on

Lynn (44:06):
to your horse while you're going to the bathroom. I mean, I
know this sounds like a like apersonal question, but think
about what I want. I

Unknown (44:14):
have to say that disposable, like biodegradable
wet wipes, were one of myfavorite gear choices, because
you have to spend. You only getfive kilograms of gear on this
trip, and you have to. Ibasically spent a year trying to
figure out what is the perfectyear to bring. But one of the
things I learned on the Academy,which was like a training before
going to the race, was howimportant wet wipes were. So,

Lynn (44:35):
yeah, oh, I can't even imagine how, how you could do it
without that.

Unknown (44:40):
Yeah, that wouldn't be fun, but Yeah, as long as your
horse was tired enough, it wasnot a problem to get off and on
again. But if you like, forexample, on day four, I was
riding with another rider, Matt,and it was starting to rain, and
he was like, I need to stop andput my rain jacket on because I
was really wet last night, and Idon't want to get wet again. And
we were. Both on pretty feisty,fresh galloping horses right out

(45:03):
of the horse station only a fewminutes. And so we pulled our
horses back, and I chose to stayon, because I knew this horse
was fresh and I was not gettingon. He got off. Took forever to
put his rain pants on, and he's

Lynn (45:14):
Is he trying to put his rain pants on while holding his
horse? Yes. And

Unknown (45:18):
then as soon as he goes to get on his horse. His horse
gets away from him and runs backto the station, and then I'm by
myself, and I have to ride onbecause he is going back to find
his hearts. Yeah, he has to walkback. But that's an important
lesson of, you know, don't askthe horse to stop before they
have run out of some energy,because then you're just going
to end up with a lot of energy,and you're on the ground, and

(45:40):
it's gonna be really hard to getback on

Lynn (45:42):
so now you're out there in a storm by yourself. Yup, say
more about how that went.

Unknown (45:48):
Oh, well, actually, it ended up pretty cool. So I had
originally rode out with Lucyand Matt from this is from horse
STATION 11 on day four, and Lucyhad gotten bucked off by her
horse, and she had to go back,like, right out of the station.
So anyways, I'm, like, ridingalong, it's raining, and I'm

(46:08):
like, Oh, I'm going to go find aplace to camp. It's like, 5:30pm
and I needed to go find a placeto camp for the night, which
meant, like, meeting a randomMongolian family in a gare,
which is a Mongolian, you're outon the step and asking them if I
can stay, which, luckily, instep culture, it's they like
guests, and they, they alwayssay, yes, it's part of, part of
the step culture to be have lotsof hospitality. But luckily,

(46:33):
coming up behind me was Lucygalloping up on her horse, and
she was like, Hey, do you wantto find a place to camp? And I
was like, I sure do. So I onlyhad in that, in that situation,
I only had, you know, maybe 20minutes where I was alone right
before the end of the day, andthen the sun came out, and there
was rainbows, and we weresplashing through the puddles,
and we ended up finding, like abeautiful little little gear in

(46:56):
the swamp. There was like ayoung family with puppies, and
we learned we got to watch themom milk a cow, and they helped
us put the horses on the line.
And then inside the gear, wewere like, playing on Google
Translate, trying to, like,exchange information. And we
played the ankle bone game,which is the Mongolian game that
they showed us, and they hadlittle toads in that gear that

(47:19):
were living under the stove, andthe family was like pointing and
laughing at the toads. And so Ilike that. We stayed in a swamp
with stove toads that night.
That

Lynn (47:30):
is so cool. Does it? Does it ever happen that anybody
can't find a gear and has tostop and camp out, oh, in the
open, I guess, because you'renot carrying a tent? Or how does

Unknown (47:40):
that work? So I can tell you the story of the next
night. On day five, I I hadridden out. There was four
Pakistani riders I've beenriding with all day, and they're
they're amazing. They ridereally fast, and then they'll,
like, gallop and walk, andthey're really fun. They
sometimes have like, a stereo,like playing music. They were
just having a great time. And Irode with them. And then at some
point, I I drove a horse at theend of the day, and I lost them

(48:03):
in the mountains. I'm not surethey went a different way, and I
was by myself. And of course,it's again, 5pm and by myself in
the mountains, and a rainstormis coming in, and I'm like,
okay, the night before takegetting off to take put on rain
gear was a bad idea. So I waslike, This horse is calm. I'm
going to put the rain gear onwhile I'm on the horse. So well.
I came off the horse, but I wasstill holding on to him, but I

(48:25):
could not get back on and infront of me was a sea of grass.
There was no gears, no trees,nothing, just grass. Four miles,
and I was trying to head towardsthe waterhole so I could camp
there for the night, because ifyou found a waterhole, they'll
let you camp the race directors,yeah, 7pm and a riding hours
came, came around, and I tookthe tack off my horse. I hobbled

(48:48):
him, messaged the headquartersaying, Hey, I couldn't find a
place to camp, but here I amwith my horse. I was eating some
fried meat patties calledhorseshore, which is like a
local food that I had stuff.
They, they, they have those atthe horse stations, and I had
stuff in my pocket, since I waseating my horse short and I was
sitting there watching my horsegraze, and I was like, You know
what, I'm happy I could, I couldtotally camp here. This would be

(49:10):
great. The grass was kind of wetfrom the dew, so I thought, you
know, or the rain. So I waslike, maybe they'll let me camp
here. The vet came and theysaid, You can't camp here. So
they helped me get back on myhorse, and we they helped me
find a gear and a family where Icould tie my horse up for the
night I would graze him, and thetime up, but I had a penalty the
next day. Yeah.

Lynn (49:33):
So I assume that every horror place you go and you
know, just stay with somebodythe gears, they have the ability
to handle your horse like theycan. They have a place to tie up
the horse, something to feed thehorse.

Unknown (49:46):
Sometimes there'll be a horse line, which is like the
normal way that Mongolians havetheir horses tied. All the
horses are trained to stand thetide. Sometimes they will have a
round pen. They can put thehorse in the round pen, but you
can tie them to the round pen.
And then that one family in theswamp, they just probably go.
Low line on the ground, and thehorses could graze all night, so
they always have something.
Yeah,

Lynn (50:04):
and do the horses, I guess you have to also feed them
during during the day or or dothey get fed in between? Because
you're only riding them for 25miles

Unknown (50:12):
or so, so the only time you're really focused on their
feeding, because when you, whenyou, you're, you're picking the
horses out of a a lottery, likea little basket with numbers in
it at random. You get a horse,and then you ride the horse, you
know, first the vet checks thehorse, make sure that the horse
is in good shape to try it out,and then you take the horse back
at the next station, the vetchecks the horse out. You're
required to make sure that theyhave had water and that, you

(50:34):
know, their their gut sounds aregood, so grazing them along the
way is always good. Just likeany endurance ride, we always
encourage horses to eat as muchas possible. So whenever you're
stopped, you want the horse tograze, but it's really at night
when, when you come into a placeand you're not at a horse
station, the horse station justgive the horse back to the
owner, yeah, but when you'recamping out with a family, you

(50:54):
know these families. They knownothing about the Mongolian
derby. They they're just nomadicherders that are in different
places. They may have neverheard of the Mongol Derby, but
they're hosting you and hostingyou, and so you'll graze your
horse for an hour in the nightand an hour in the morning, and
you're expected to bring thathorse back to the next four
station in just as good shape asyou pick the horse up. Wow,

Lynn (51:13):
do you like? I was just thinking about like, the the I'm
sorry, my my thoughts arescattered. I have so many
questions. But how do they howdo you get them back to the
owner? Because that you got themat one place and then they're
going to another I'm being verylike, these are the kind of
questions I have, is, how do Ihorses back? So

Unknown (51:34):
I watched a lot of the herders they would, they would
actually herd their horses back.
So I watched, I watched themround up, you know, big herds of
50 horses, and they'll just herdthem right back on the step,
which is beautiful to watch,

Lynn (51:49):
on horseback, and they're just hoarding, hurting their
horses, yeah, or,

Unknown (51:52):
or sometimes on motorcycle, you know, sometimes,
like, a couple horses used forthe race. So then they'll come,
like, if they have like, prizein the DOM horses, which is the
Mongolian race horses. Sometimesthose horses will be and each
herder is being paid for for thehorses, and the better the horse
does, the more they get paid. Sosometimes the prize in the DOM
horses will come in a in a horsetruck. So it'll be like an open

(52:13):
air truck that you put horses inthe back. It's very interesting
looking from a Westernperspective. But the horses do
fine in them,

Lynn (52:21):
and you're calling them nadam. Is that? Yeah, so

Unknown (52:24):
that's the name of the racing or nadam is a festival,
and it's the the traditionalMongolian sports of wrestling,
archery and and horse racing.
But nadam horses are known asthe race horses, and when you
pull a nadam horse on your yourhorse draw, you're going to have
a horse that can gallop almostthat whole wig. And if there's
one reason to go to Mongolia,it's to pull those nadam horses
and get to ride them that farand that fast.

Lynn (52:48):
How hard was it for you to learn how to gallop? I'm asking
that from

Unknown (52:52):
a question. So I live in Maine, and we have a lot of
rocky, muddy, Rudy, woodedfooting, so we do not have good
places to train, and I don'thave any racing background at
all, so I had never reallygalloped before training for the
Mongol derby. I did go down toMaryland to a rehoming program

(53:16):
called after the races for offthe track thoroughbreds that is
run by a Mongol Derby veteran.
She did it a number of yearsago, named Bonnie, and she let
me ride one of her off the trackthoroughbreds named Simka. And I
got to do some full out gallopswhen I was with her. Really,
it's just kind of getting overyour fear of the speed, you
know, because all of the toolsyou use to ride, you know, a

(53:39):
can't, you know, to ride a fasttrot in a two point position, or
to ride a fast canter in a inthat kind of position, you know,
you you mostly want to be kindof a little bit over the horse,
maybe standing up straight. Butwhen you're when you're when
you're galloping for for longdistances, you actually want to
change your position up evenmore. So sometimes I would be
leaning back trying to use mybest seat so I wasn't flopping

(53:59):
on the horse. Sometimes I'd bestanding up straight like the
Mongolians do. Stevie likes tocall that a frame or kind of
more of a of a hunt seat, kindof two point. Yeah.

Lynn (54:11):
Well, I I'm asking that from from having my own
experience, because when I metStevie last year at the at the
work sheller podcast Summit, shesomehow offhandedly said
something about teaching peopleto gallop. And I was like, wait
a minute, you can actually teachthat, because I don't know why I
thought it was something, youknow, first of all, she
acknowledged that a lot ofpeople are afraid to do it.

(54:31):
Hello, I was in my club, andthen she said, I can teach that.
And I was like, and then she setup a galloping workshop, and
that's the first time I got togo ride with Stevie this year.
Was in March. I went to hergalloping workshop.

Unknown (54:48):
I'm sorry, how was that for you?

Lynn (54:50):
It was amazing. And actually, first of all, a couple
of times when we when weactually did galloping, we just
found stretches where we couldgallop, right? We were in the
play. Where there was, like, thevolcanic rock and stuff, stuff
like that. So there were just afew stretches, but she picked
really good places. But she go,oh, there's a gallop. I was
like, Oh, I've done this before,because there's a one of the
regular horses that I ride whenwe when we let him go, and it's

(55:14):
usually no more than 100 yardsor so. When we have a good
stretch on the, you know, on thetrail, he will go into a full on
Gall, and it feels differentthan a canner, because a canner
has like a little bit of a rock.
And the Gallop is actually, I'veactually learned that I'm the
most balanced outside of walkingat the gallop. So

Unknown (55:33):
it's a pretty it's a pretty smooth gait, right?
Actually, really smooth,yeah. And when I was I got just
started to train my ear tolisten is, Am I hearing three
beats or four? And that's how Iwould know, because otherwise I
wouldn't know if I was in acanter or gallop until I could
hear the beat. Yeah,

Lynn (55:49):
yeah. I was in Saint Lucia about a month after that, and
rode on the beach, and the guyinitially was going to hold on
to the horse as we went down.
And I was like, I you know, himbeing that close to me was very
uncomfortable. And I said, letme just go. And I did not expect
the I thought the horse wasgoing to do the rocking horse
gate, you know, all the way tothe end. And man, as soon as he
let go, and I I just dropped,you know, I lowered the reins

(56:11):
and said, Let's go. She went.
And it was a full my he had topick up my phone because it went
flying. It was a but it was in asolid pocket. It wasn't like
zipped but it wasn't like theback pocket, which comes out
easy it. She went, and there wasa part of me that was like, I
need to stop this. But then Irealized I can't stop this. And

(56:34):
I just was like, well, at theend of the beach, when she
starts running up onto the hill,we'll we'll be in control again,

Unknown (56:40):
they're not going to go out forever.

Lynn (56:42):
No, and, and I, I think I realized, and I think this is
something that has to be in playwith what you did at the
Mongolian Derby, but I think Irealized that I had some beliefs
around the way things should bewith horses that were
interfering with my ability tobe with what was happening in
the moment. That makes sense andand one of my should bes was, if

(57:06):
a horse goes into a full ongallop, I need to be able to
stop it right at any moment thatI decide to. And what I'm
gathering is, there you'resetting the conditions to say,
No, I have to be able to ridethrough it.

Unknown (57:20):
It's, I mean, going with the horse, especially with
a horse you're only going toride for 25 miles is a better
bet. You know, if you had a lotof time with that horse, you
know, say you're going to ridethat horse for many days, or
you're going to release thathorse, you could work on the
first you go with the horse,then the horse goes with you,
and then you go together, kindof, yeah. But I think for the
mango Derby, you going with thehorse is a pretty good strategy.

(57:42):
Well,

Lynn (57:42):
it's their and it's their home territory, and they know
that footing, and they they'reused to doing this, and they
know this is what they'reexpected to do, exactly, trust
and so accepting that and notputting our judgments on that,
that's back to the should be,you know, it's, it's kind of the
when in Rome do as the Romansdo, yes, philosophy. Now,

(58:05):
speaking of though, being in adifferent place, how did you
manage the language? Do theyteach you different words?

Unknown (58:11):
They give you like a little cheat sheet? But I
actually so my first degree isin cultural anthropology. So
when I was running, when I knewI was training for the Derby, I
did everything. I was like, I'mgoing to read all the books, I'm
going to learn all the culturalthings. I'm going to take
language lessons. So I found aorganization out of Umbar, the

(58:31):
capital city, that had hourlyzoom sessions. So my my teacher
box, Ayuna, she and I met up at9pm eastern time every Wednesday
night for a year, well over ayear, and then go, Yeah, I got
to go out to dinner with her andmeet her in person. And that was
amazing. So though my one claimto fame is that I could say the

(58:52):
numbers that I would draw out ofthe the lottery for the number,
and I could tell the herderdirectly what number I drew. I
didn't have to have theinterpreter tell them what
number it was. So that's verycool. That was exciting. I you
know, I have to say I'm not atalented language learner, so I
didn't learn as much as I wish Ihad, but I felt good about the

(59:12):
effort I put in, and it was funto be able to, like, be able to
say some words in Mongolianwhile I was there.

Lynn (59:18):
Yeah, and I give you the cheat sheet like you said, to
ask for a place to stay. Yeah.

Unknown (59:24):
I mean, it's not an easy language. I mean, I think
the cheat cheese is more likehello and thank you.

Lynn (59:30):
So how do people do that?
Because this is, again, you'rehearing kind of this kind of
things. I worry about, but itwould, my fear would be, I would
not be asking the right thing,and I would be asking something
stupid or whatever, or they'dturn me down. Yeah, right on. Or
be, you know, getting a vetpenalty or whatever. How? How do
you navigate those littlesocially awkward moments of, can

(59:51):
I stay at your house? You'venever met me before.

Unknown (59:54):
It's awkward and weird, and, you know, sometimes they'll
call a family member. AndUlaanbaatar that speaks some
English, and you'll talk on thephone to some random relative,
or you'll just use hand signalsor try to point to some paper. I
had a lot of cheat sheet, kindof, like, words I had saved on
my phone, and then my phone diedin the first leg of the race, so

(01:00:15):
all of my, like, helper thoughtswere gone. So I just had to,
like, use what few words I couldremember and hope that it was
enough, and it it always kind ofworks out. You know, sometimes
you get to a place and, youknow, say it's a woman and her
husband's not home, and shecan't say yes, so you have to
move on to the next one. Butthere's a lot of very nice,
friendly, hospitable people outthere, so that helps.

Lynn (01:00:36):
Did you have any any moments of despair while you
were out there? Any momentswhere you're like, oh my god,
what am I doing here? And how,how did I get in this? What have
I done to myself?

Unknown (01:00:47):
Never. I never had moments where I was like, why am
I doing this race? I think itwas the 10 best days of my life,
for sure. But I did have onehorse that was more challenging
than the others. On day eight, Ipulled a stallion. I never
stallion before, so I was like,this is going to be terrible.
Terrifying, right? Stallions,you know? I'm a, you know, I'm a
backyard trail rider. I don'tride stallions. Well, he was a

(01:01:10):
weak sauce stallion. The funnything about stallions in
Mongolia is they have reallylong, flowing names and are
beautiful because they Roach themains of all the geldings. And
in Mongolia, they don't ride themares at all. The mares are just
milked. So when you're ridingthe race, you're only riding
geldings and stallions. But thestallion, he came out of the
horse station, and we slowlywatched every other rider go

(01:01:31):
ahead of us, and our littlecanter that he had never really,
I think, had a person on hisback cantering before slowly
went to the slowest, it was theslowest trot I've ever done in
my life. And then we're walking,and it was a hot leg of the day,
and I was very far behindeveryone, and at one point it
was like, Sandy and the road andthe horse like got down and

(01:01:53):
rolled into this tack on, and Iwas like, This is not good. And
then it's the only leg of thewhole race where there was a
town that we had to passthrough, and a compulsory
bridge. And was one of thosethings, like from the from the
cartoons, where you see thething up ahead in the distance,
and it doesn't get any closer,no matter how many hours you
travel towards it. I was justsee this, the city looming in

(01:02:14):
the distance, and I was nevergetting any closer to it. And it
was hot and I was hungry, and Iwas imagining I was like, when I
get to this town, maybe everyoneis sitting there by a cafe with
a beer, with their horse andsome chips. And I was like,
maybe, maybe it will be likethat when I get there. And, you
know, finally, eventually, I getto this town, and there's a

(01:02:34):
Mongolian herder, kind ofwandering through the town on
his horse, and he's trying to,like, push my horse towards the
end of the town, and I'm like,barely able to walk this horse
is just so it wants to be done,and it is freaked out by the
town. Is like, what is thistown? There's like, nobody in
the town that's, like, veryempty, and there's no one in the
side Cafe eating chips and beer.
So I was too scared to go andtie my horse by myself up, and I

(01:02:56):
apparently I was hours behindeveryone. And I finally get
through the town, and I come tothis bridge, and it's like, you
know, I'm so far behind and I'mso tired and and hot and hungry,
and the horse is like, I willnot go across this bridge. And
I'm like, Okay, well, I am aloneand I am last. How am I gonna
get this horse across thisbridge? I did not want to go. I

(01:03:17):
try to do it mounted. I try getoff and try to lead it. And on
the other end of the bridgethere's an interpreter, I think,
kind of left there by the crewthe derby to, like, make sure
that people, it's a drivingbridge, and people driving
across this bridge. So I guesshe was there to, like, explain
if why, wondering why there's,like, weird foreigners on horses
trying to grab this bridge. Andso eventually he takes pity on

(01:03:37):
me and helps me, like, he leadsme across. I'm, like, riding on
this tiny little stallion, andhe's leading me across, like the
walk of shame. And I'm like,man, he took a picture of it
too. And I'm I never saw thepicture, but I was like, That is
the most embarrassing picture ofmy life. And I finally get to
the horse station. It wasn'teven right after the bridge. It
was like seven more kilometersof like, walking. I get there, I

(01:03:57):
vet him out. His heart rate ishigh. It didn't he still passed
the vet check, but it, it wasn'tlike, instant come down. It was

Lynn (01:04:06):
like, and you would have thought his heart rate wouldn't
have even been up at all, giventhe way he was writing,

Unknown (01:04:10):
writing, yes, and then he had girth galls, like rubs on
his girth from rolling, which Ishould have known, but I wasn't
thinking straight. And I'mbehind everyone, and they're
ready to close the station. I goinside to the gear to the gear
to get some food, because I wasvery hungry, and there's no
food. There's no food. The bloodwagon, all the folks who had
gotten injured or weren't in theride anymore had eaten all the
food, and they were like, Oh, doyou want us to make you

(01:04:32):
something? I was like, No, Igotta stay in the race. I gotta
go. But I started crying. Thatwas the only time during the
race I cried. But took a deepbreath after I cried, and was
like, I'm going to go out to thehorse station, pick another
horse. And when I got out there,there was a new vet. His name
was Angus, and I went to draw myhorse. I got like number 27 and
the Mongolian herder, throughthe interpreter, said, number 27

(01:04:54):
is no good. Pick another one. SoI picked like number 32 and I.
Uh, you know which is you'resupposed to just take the horse,
and the Mongol and her is like,No, you want number five. You
don't want number 32 and the Thevet said, 32 sounds like five.
And so I got to ride this guy'sprize in the DOM horse. And we
made that leg so fast, we wentin under two hours to the next

(01:05:17):
station, and we ended up passingother riders. So I went from
being dead last to being back inthe race, but it was a low point
for that one moment where I waslike, I have so last so

Lynn (01:05:27):
have you noticed, like, do most people have low moments
like that? Do they have momentswhere they just have to cry? I
feel like, I assume they do. Ithink it'd be weird. I've
watched them. You know, after wegot back from our June trip, I
watched, there was a movie on,it's on Amazon, or something
about the race. And I actuallyit's like, they it, they make it
like it's one, but it's likethree different years, I think.

(01:05:50):
And it looked like almosteverybody has a moment where
there's blood or tears. There'sblood sweat, a lot of blood,
sweat and tears in this race.

Unknown (01:05:57):
Yeah. I mean, it's a long it's a long race. I mean, I
physically, I was pretty finethe whole time my challenge
because I had done a physicaljob for the last 17 years. My
challenge wasn't physical, but,you know, the mental gruel of
like, you know, being last andhaving to be a drag on the
interpreter that was waiting forme and the whole horse station
was waiting on me, like that,that kind of pressure I found to

(01:06:19):
be the hardest part,

Lynn (01:06:21):
how do you? How did you?
How did you prepare? Like, maybeyou were already in an endurance
sport because of what you do.
But as somebody who most of mysports are the opposite. They're
more like sprinting sports, likewater skiing is very much a
sprint. You know, if I waspicking between golf and tennis,

(01:06:43):
golf is much more endurance.
Tennis is what I did. You know,I don't think I've ever played
18 holes of golf. I couldn'teven imagine spending that kind
of time out and doing one thing.
So there you go. Shows you mymindset. But how do you get
yourself ready for that level ofendurance?

Unknown (01:07:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean, it's like titration, like
doing little bits, like doingthose little races, I think
really helped, you know,knowing, having the confidence,
like I've gone 90 miles in aday, so I know I can do this
day, you know, and kind oftaking all of the pieces that is
the race, like spending a yearon what kind of gear I was going
to bring, understanding how topack my gear, understanding how
to put myself in a positionwhere I felt I wasn't going to

(01:07:22):
felt I wasn't going to fall, youknow, making sure that I could
run if I was going to be on theground for a long time, making
sure that I wasn't going to gettired. So I think it's about
kind of seeing, what are all theskills that you need, you know,
little bit of navigation skills,all the skills you need,
breaking them down into littlepieces of like, well, what is
this skill? What is this skill?
And when you work on them one ata time, you know you don't have
to put them together untilyou're at the race and then the

(01:07:43):
other the other thing that the agood piece of advice that Stevie
gave me was get comfortablebeing uncomfortable. So
actually, set up my tent andlived outside for a couple
weeks, maybe a month before therace, because I didn't want
sleeping on the ground to benew. I wanted to make sure that
I could get a good night's sleepon the ground already. And so I
tried to, I tried to kind oflive that, you know, make sure

(01:08:05):
that all the gear was gear, likeall the clothes I was going to
wear were super comfortable, youknow, that I liked them. And so
going through that and trying totry to eliminate any variable
that was going to give youproblems

Lynn (01:08:17):
later, yeah, was the preparation part as much of the
fun as the actual race. Yeah, I

Unknown (01:08:24):
actually felt like the the year leading up to the derby
was the best year of my lifethus far. I mean, that the race,
the the 10 days themselves, werethe best 10 days of my life. But
I just loved the preparation. Iloved all the pieces of learning
and just, I just kind of took itas, like a whole, wholehearted,
whole centered, like I'm goingto just go for it, and that's
how I want to live my life fromnow on. So I'm kind of doing

(01:08:46):
that with my next phase of lifetoo, just, just trying to get
all the pieces and, you know,I've got the goal at the end of
the day and and just try toimmerse myself in that.

Lynn (01:08:55):
But the goal is just the reason for the journey, right?
Well,

Unknown (01:08:59):
yeah. But the, maybe, the Yeah, exactly,

Lynn (01:09:03):
and then the goal, yeah, because the journey is the fun
part. Now, do I remembercorrectly? Because the other
race that you could do, besidesthe Mongol Derby, is the Gaucho
derby. And are you getting readyfor that? Is that what

Unknown (01:09:15):
I Yeah? So the day I got back to the they stay at the
Holiday Inn and lo and botter,the racers come back there at
the end. And I got back to thehotel room, and I was like, you
know, cleaning myself up andenjoying a few days of luxury.
And the first thing I did was Isigned up for the Gaucho derby.
Because I was like, I just, thisis, this is what I want to be
doing, yeah. So they ended uppostponing that race so they

(01:09:37):
won't be having one in 2025 sothe race itself will be in
January or February of 2026 butI'm going down this January to
do the academy there. So I'llget a chance to ride the creojo
horses. The Gaucho derby is a500 kilometer race, so it's a
little shorter than the MongolDerby, but it is a testament to

(01:09:59):
your. Survival Skills. You'rebringing your own food, more
camping gear. There's notfriendly Mongolian families to
stay with along the way, soyou'll have to,

Lynn (01:10:08):
yeah, that I followed that deeply this last year, and it
just kind of blew me away, howdifficult that one is. And yet I
think you're gonna not. Youwon't sail through because
nobody sails through, but Ithink you'll really enjoy every
minute of that.

Unknown (01:10:25):
Yeah, I'm just going to go through with not a lot of
expectations. I'm going to trainas far as I can and just go to
enjoy it.

Lynn (01:10:31):
So one of the other things is the traveling to and from
Mongolia. What does it take toget to Mongolia, which, by the
way, I think I looked on a map,it sits right between Russia and
China,

Unknown (01:10:43):
and it's real far, yeah. So it was definitely the
farthest I've ever traveled. Ithink it was like a 12 hour
flight to Turkey and thenanother 12 hour flight to
Mongolia, something like that.

Lynn (01:10:54):
Whoa, that's some long traveling, yeah, but it's

Unknown (01:10:57):
worth it. I mean, you definitely want I stayed for six
weeks. I was really lucky. I hadreally great people helping me
out on my farm that allowed meto leave for so long.

Lynn (01:11:07):
Yeah, I see I don't do very well traveling for very
long because it's hard for me toget away the way my life is
structured, like I would have tocut out very important things in
my life to make that easy, and Idon't want to do that. It

Unknown (01:11:20):
is a lot, but I really, I, you know, I didn't travel
extensively during the yearsthat I was really running my
business and building mybusiness up, and I realized, you
know, because my background wasin anthropology, I've always
been interested in othercultures, and traveling has
always been important to me, butI kind of let that part of my
life kind of be dormant for along time, and training for the

(01:11:40):
Mongol derby is looking that up.
And I am going to embrace thefact that I love traveling. So
I'm trying to try to straddleboth worlds, between having a
business set up in Maine where Ican flourish, but also having
travels and adventuresthroughout the year.

Lynn (01:11:59):
I think that's awesome. I know this when I when we
finished our trip. So people onthis podcast, we heard Stevie,
and I talk about, in June, Iwrote, went out with Stevie for
what turned out to be anendurance boot camp, more than a
luxury camping trip, but youwere there, Alex, Eric, and
Stevie and I were there. Andwhen we finished, and I spent

(01:12:22):
five nights in a tent two atStevie's place, is that right?
For four nights in a tent two atStevie's place, two out in the
place that we stayed on thePacific Crest Trail. The the
night I got home, I was like, Iwant to go back to the tent. Oh,
cool. I loved, I loved being outthere. And the last night, you
know, I was, I was the only onethere, because you guys had

(01:12:45):
already gone home. So I stayedout by myself. It was easily
freezing. I mean, it was 32 forsure, if not below. And I was
fine. I had a good sleeping bag.
Now, mind you, I'm not, I'm notJessie. I didn't get on the
ground. I slept on the cot. Butit was, it was wonderful to be

(01:13:05):
out there, and the moon was fulland the horses were in the
paddock, and I could see themwhen I went out to go to the
bathroom, and it was justlovely. And I so I can see where
you have that and I think a lotof my questions come from
something that I think I'vemostly answered, but not 100%
which is, what if I didsomething like that? You know?

(01:13:28):
Well, how would I do that? CouldI do it? But you

Unknown (01:13:33):
just just subscribed about staying the night at
Stevie's. Sound a lot like stayin the night in Mongolia. You
can hear the horses runningaround, and you're in that
tenant, and the moon is overyou, and it smells like sage, so
it's very similar, sameelevation.

Lynn (01:13:48):
That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, that that really
was an eye opening trip. And theother thing is, I had my two
longest rides, and I got towatch how you get ready and how
you handle adversity, becauseyou know you were there to ride
Chuck Norris, and because we hadthe little kerfuffle with hero,
you ended up on hero, which wasno big deal for you, but was

(01:14:11):
going to be a big deal for meand for hero for us to try to
ride together. Chuck and I werefine, but I remember watching
you as we were riding on the 15mile day. And again, mind you, I
am a trail rider that rides oneto two to sometimes three hours,
and we rode for six plus. I wasfine, but I was I noticed that

(01:14:34):
you were riding withoutstirrups, and I asked you, what
was going on? Do you rememberwhat you were doing?

Unknown (01:14:39):
Yeah, so that's just something I do when I, when I,
when I find myself on a trailride, because sometimes I ride
with beginner riders at home. Ialso am taking students here. If
I'm riding slow, sometimes I'mlike, Well, I'm going to
challenge myself. So if I, ifwe're riding at the walk, then
I'll take my stirrups out, myfoot out of the stirrups, and
just practice on my seat. Andthen I'm working to. Different

(01:15:00):
muscles. So I actually reallyenjoyed that particular ride,
being able to do that mostlysurplus on red hero. And I never
get to ride red hero. So thatwas really special for me,
because I've ridden almost allof Stevie's horses, except for
her baby, Valkyrie. And it wasreally fun to to be able to
challenge myself in a differentway. And I think it's about, I
think that goes back to, like,the mindset, piece of of how you

(01:15:23):
prepare for these, these bigevents, is when you when you see
something that seems like it'smaybe okay. I was expecting to
ride Chuck, but I was runninghero. Well, well, what is it to
ride hero? Well, it's reallyexciting. I never get to ride
him, and I can practice otherother parts of my riding
position. So trying to see eachthing that seems like a
something that's adversity orsomething that's difficult or
something that doesn't go asplanned as well. What is the

(01:15:45):
opportunity in that moment?

Lynn (01:15:49):
I think that is a profound way of approaching life,
recognizing that the truth is wewe make plans and God laughs,
and if we constantly thinkthere's something wrong when
things aren't going the way weexpected them to go, we're not
going to have a very enjoyablelife. But if you're able to,

(01:16:10):
like, go with it, which you didso elegantly and beautifully,
like not once did I ever sort offind myself feeling guilty
because you weren't throwing anyanything my way that said you're
taking my horse or anything,which you, you know, that's a
human thought you could have. Imean, I was

Unknown (01:16:30):
excited I get to spend time with you in person, and so
I was having a great time. Andthe other, the other thing for
me is, like, I think mysuperpower when it comes to
horses is that I love everyhorse I'm I'm riding, and like
during the Mongol Derby, I neverhad a situation where I was
bucked off or that I was injuredor I didn't really have any bad
experiences with any of thehorses. And I, I really think

(01:16:51):
that comes from the fact that Ijust genuinely like them all.
And yeah, I think they can feelthat. So if I'm with a horse,
there's really nothing tocomplain about.

Lynn (01:17:01):
Well, I have come to that I'm really starting to learn to
love pretty much every horse I'mwith as well. And for me,
getting on Chuck and getting theopportunity through all that, to
get to ride a horse like him,was huge for me, because, you
know, for those that know, mystory, just getting back on any

(01:17:22):
horse was a big deal. And thischuck is not just any horse.
He's, he's a, he's a real horse.
You know, he's a, he's anArabian that likes to go,

Unknown (01:17:31):
Yeah, and I've, I've seen him buck off, uh, very
accomplished riders. So he wasvery good with you. I think he
knew,

Lynn (01:17:39):
he knew he that's what's that's the coolest thing about
animals is, is at some level,they know I was, I was just in a
raining lesson yesterday where,where I realized that my mind is
getting clearer and clearer, andit was the best, probably the
best lesson I've ever had in mylife, because the horse and I
were just in sync to a levelthat. And I know this with

(01:18:03):
reining horses, that when youwhen you're getting ready to
stop, you actually can't thinkabout stopping before it's time
to stop, like, if you're toodeliberate in saying, I'm that's
the spot 30 feet away. And thisis what happened to me
yesterday. He just he went aheadand stopped the the second my
thoughts went to, we're going tobe stopping soon. And I know I

(01:18:23):
didn't change my body. It's amind thing, yeah, because I was
very, I'm very mindful about us,like I have to keep writing
right, that I can't startgetting ready to stop in my
head. And that's how much theyknow, they you know, which is
back to what we said. If they,if they can hear us beating
ourselves

Unknown (01:18:37):
up totally.

Lynn (01:18:40):
So it's important, how can that is for them?

Unknown (01:18:43):
It's it's important to really limit your negative self
talk for that reason,

Lynn (01:18:48):
and to truly learn how to master it and, frankly,
eliminate it.

Unknown (01:18:53):
What's the tall order?
I'm still working on that.

Lynn (01:18:57):
Well, we all, I mean, I'm definitely working on it, but,
but I definitely, I've madestrides. I've made strides, and
I think it's possible. I thinkit's done. I think we do set
negative self talk for goodreason. I think we're doing it
to try to make ourselves better.
It just doesn't work. Yeah,

Unknown (01:19:13):
I mean, we become what we think of most, and so if we
spend a lot of time thinkingabout our downsides, then that's
where we're going to go. And soit's so important to set your
energy and intention towardswhere you want to go.

Lynn (01:19:26):
I like the way you said that we become what we think of
most. I always say you get moreof what you touch, but it is
very true. If you follow yourmind, you'll find out what your
life is. So if you're I'mimagining, and I hope that you
will send future people who areconsidering doing something like

(01:19:48):
the Mongol or the Gaucho Derbyto this podcast to maybe learn
more about it and learn how toget ready. What would you say to
somebody that is concerned?
Considering it, what what were,what are the top things you
would say helped you get ready?
I know we've summarized some ofthem already, but what would
that be?

Unknown (01:20:10):
Get ready? I think physical fitness would be one of
the top things, because I feellike being in shape, being able
to trust my body made the wholeexperience more fun for me,
because I think, and also,you're less likely to be injured
if you are in good shape.

Lynn (01:20:31):
So the whole experience, all that with me falling off of
hero, me being fit, I think,

Unknown (01:20:36):
yeah, it makes a huge difference. I think it's a lot
easier to get injured when youhave a weakness, especially if
you have like, one of the thingsI found out when I was training
is I had a bit more of a leftside weakness. And actually
worked with a with an equestrianfitness coach to work on that
alignment, and that made a hugedifference.

Lynn (01:20:54):
Yeah, so fitness, physical fitness, mental fitness,
definitely,

Unknown (01:20:59):
definitely, if you know, I'm lucky. I did not have
an office job. I pretty muchworked on a job that was already
I was already living in like afight or flight mode, like, you
know, crisis lifestyle ofworking all the time. And so my
ability to endure had alreadybeen stretched to beyond what is
probably necessary for you so,so those kind of things were

(01:21:23):
kind of my strengths that I drewon from just my life. But if, if
you are living an office job,then I would say that it's going
to be a bit more work to getyour to get your endurance up
there.

Lynn (01:21:35):
Yeah, any, any exercises or advice you give to somebody
wanting to get their enduranceup there? Yeah?

Unknown (01:21:41):
I mean, I just what, honestly, I think Stevie is an
amazing trainer, and I followedwhat she what she taught me, and
which was I started runningregularly, and she taught us how
to use the balance board, sojust strengthening those micro
muscles in your lower legs,squats, doing lots of lunges,
like the first boot camp we did,like 100 lunges in the morning,

(01:22:01):
and feeling, feeling yourthighs, and then just yoga, for
me, that's a modality thatreally works. But, you know,
there's, I think there's so manyways to get at it, you know,
whatever type of fitnessactivity that speaks to you is
probably going to work, youknow, a regular practice. You

(01:22:22):
know, I'm I'm 43 and I feelgreat. I love, you know, the
more I work out regularly, thebetter I feel about being able
to get on and ride a horse allday.

Lynn (01:22:31):
And you do love to ride a horse all day. You were so happy
to be out there all day when wewere riding. It's funny.

Unknown (01:22:37):
I thought the riding Tevis that I it was, like a
bucket list thing, and that Iwas just doing it. So I could
say I did it, but I can't eventell you how much fun I had.
Like, I thought the nightwriting was going to be kind of
grueling and I wasn't going toenjoy it, but it was, like full
moon, and we rode, like, I don'tknow, maybe seven hours in the
dark, and I loved every secondof being on chuck that night.

(01:22:59):
And yeah, so

Lynn (01:23:00):
that we haven't even talked about Tevis, good grief,
that was incredible. And Inoticed, I know one of your
posts, when right after you hadgotten off, was that sure was a
lot of trotting downhill.

Unknown (01:23:13):
Yeah. So if you want to put Tevis in one sentence, it is
trotting quite trot, trottingquickly over rocks downhill.

Lynn (01:23:21):
That is over rocks downhill. Yes, did you? Did you?
I mean, I know y'all did walksome during the ride, but did
you walk? Like, what percentagewould you say was walking,
trotting? Countering? How wouldyou break it down? A

Unknown (01:23:32):
good question. When I went to the new rider meeting
the night before the ride, and awoman who had been doing, I
can't remember her name, butshe's like a very well known has
done the ride a million times.
She said, walk where you canwalk, where you have to trot,
where you can never hurry, neverValley. And basically, like
there are going to be placeswhere it's just too rocky and
you have to walk, especially inthe canyons. We actually got off

(01:23:54):
our horses and ran down thecanyons, at least the first
Canyon before I felt like I wasabout to have a heart attack.
And then ride the horses up,because we as humans are
stronger going downhill on footand the horses are stronger
going uphill. But the trotting,

you know, we start at (01:24:10):
15am and finish at 4:54am the next day.
So, you know, and there's twohour holds, but the rest of it,
you're on the horse. So, it's 22hours basically, of riding,
which is no small feat, and youare trotting fast for a lot of
that, way more than I hadthought we would have. In order

(01:24:32):
to get that 100 miles done, youhave to move at quite a fast
pace, which I yeah, I wassurprised how fast you had to
move to be able to make thecutoffs, because if you don't
get to a certain checkpoint by acertain time, they'll pull you
from the ride because you won'tmake it in the right amount of
time, right,

Lynn (01:24:50):
right? So I, we, Stevie and I talked at length about
some of that, but say a littlebit about what it what you had
to do to get yourself out of thecanyon when you were feeling.
You were having a heart attack,because I have been there. And
the funny thing about ourphysical bodies is, first of
all, sometimes everything feelslike a heart attack.

Unknown (01:25:11):
Yeah, I never had chest pain before. So well, we went
down that first Canyon. And, youknow those canyons, I mean,
they're hot. I don't know whathappens, but all the heat from
the day just kind of sits inthat canyon. And, you know, I'm
from the East Coast, and Ithought that, you know, I'm
trained in humid weather andheat, humid heat, but the heat

(01:25:31):
of this year's Tevis wasdefinitely beyond my comfort
level by by a long shot. And I'musually pretty good in the heat,
but when we got into that bottomof the canyon, we were standing
down by the river. There's aswinging bridge there, and we
were cooling our horses off, andI found that I, like, couldn't
really effectively, like, givemy horse electrolytes, or, like,
cool it off. I was kind ofstruggling to, like, move, and I

(01:25:53):
felt kind of lame. I was like,Man, I'm, like, the weakest link
of this group. Like, they'regoing to think I'm not trying.
And then we get across thebridge. And I'm like, Stevie, My
chest hurts like I think I'm atmy heart attack. And she was
just like, get on your horse.
You're gonna be fine. And shewas like, breathe in a certain
way. And I was like, Okay. Shesays, I'm gonna be fine. I'll be
fine. And I just was like, Okay,I'll just trust her. That's
good. Yeah,

Lynn (01:26:14):
she she said she taught you how to do the physiological
sigh, which I've actually had togo do in the middle of the night
when I felt like I was havingchest pains, you know, and
having a heart attack. And it,it actually did. It wasn't a
heart attack. I could tell itwhat. I was pretty sure. It
wasn't a heart attack. I wasn't100% sure. But just like,
letting out that stress, yeah,diminishing two

Unknown (01:26:36):
sips of breath in, and then a one long breath out. And
it totally worked. And I justdid that, going, like, riding,
riding truck up that hill, andthen by the time we got to the
top of the hill, I wasabsolutely fine. I had no other
instances of that, but there wasjust a moment where I had never
felt the kind of pressure on mychest before. Like, there was
this, this moment where I waslike, my guy, am I gonna die
right now? Like, is this theend? It was fine. I don't know

(01:26:58):
that that was bizarre.
Definitely never felt thatbefore.

Lynn (01:27:01):
Yeah, how was it writing in the dark that that's
something that's a little freakyto me.

Unknown (01:27:06):
I thought it was good.
So I had written, I had riddenin the dark on the 75 on the two
other hundreds I had done, andthe 75 I had done. So I had done
some night writing before, andI'd always found it really
challenging. And I'd only readfor like, three or four hours in
the dark, and this was going tobe seven. So it was definitely
the part that I was the mostnervous about of the whole race,
but it was actually the part Ihad the most fun. I felt like I
was in a magical fairy land,like that's how the forest felt.

(01:27:29):
And there were Bay trees, so itsmelled like bay leaves in the
in the canyons that we were inat night, and there's glow
lights marking the trail. And soI kept imagining the forest
spirits from Princess Mononoke,and that I was just like in this
magical, Enchanted Forest. Andthere was little forest spirits
everywhere, and we were beingled along by some other riders
in the dark, and we're in aline. And I just every moment

(01:27:50):
just felt magical. And I wasjust with this wonderful horse,
and yeah, I just, I absolutelyloved every moment. And

Lynn (01:28:00):
did you did you get saddle sore at all? Did you have rubbed
spots and stuff? Because like Idid yesterday, I just an hour
and a half ride, I realized Igot myself I thought about the
Body Glide. I got a little bitsaddle sore yesterday. I'm
curious how you manage that?

Unknown (01:28:13):
So I've worked through the right outfit to wear on
these long rides over the lastcouple years. But the only thing
I wasn't able to prepare for it.
For Tevis was the downhillriding, because I never have
been on downhills like that.
It's just that's downhill to thenth degree. So when we, when we
got up at three in the morningto start the ride, I wasn't
really paying attention. Ididn't zip my chaps closed all

(01:28:34):
the way because I couldn't seeand I just, I don't know, I was
thinking about a million otherthings, and not about putting my
chaps on right. And when we gotabout like 10 or 15 miles into
the ride, I started to have somereally bad rubbing on my shins
from going downhill and nothaving my chaps on straight, and
all my stirrups were one holetoo long. So by the time we got

(01:28:55):
to Robinson flat, which is thefirst vet check my my shins were
hurting, um, but I took someTylenol when I got there, I
fixed my chaps, I think I put onsome dry socks, which was very
nice. I'm glad that Mallory hadtold me I should put, I should
bring extra socks, and I'mreally glad she did. And then,
and then I shortened mystirrups, and then I was fine

(01:29:15):
after that. So really, it'sabout making sure your gear is
working. Yeah,

Lynn (01:29:19):
though that makes all the difference. It it tells you a
lot. And for me, this the rubspot that I had showed me that I
was cocked way too far to oneside on the horse. Because it's

Unknown (01:29:30):
only a being balanced makes a huge difference. But
I'll tell you my shins, so it'sso it's a one month later. Today
is August 20, and the race wasJuly 20. I still have swollen
spots on my shins. I think therewere like giant hematomas from
that ride. Wow, wow.

Lynn (01:29:45):
Well, I mean, it's to be expected that you're going to
come out, as you said, havethose moments of discomfort,
and, you know, kind of keep itgoing for for a while. So do you
have aspirations to do Tevisagain, or you do.

Unknown (01:30:00):
To Yeah, so it was really cool to be able to ride
Tevis on Stevie's horse, and Inow know what it would take to
train my own horse to do it. SoI think that it's not a like a
next year plan, because Steviesays it takes five years to
create a Tevis horse. And sosomeday, I would like to get
access to horses that have Tevispotential, and I would like to

(01:30:21):
train my own team up of riders.
So I love what Stevie does,where she has, you know, five,
four or five horses that do ittogether. Horses love being in a
group. So I really love thismodel of having a team of
riders, because then your horseis happy for the whole time
because they're with theirbuddies. There are some times
where you have to go off alone,and that can be challenging. So
my goal is, is to spend, youknow, maybe, maybe not be on

(01:30:42):
the, like next year burner, but,you know, in the five years or
more, like, I would love tocurate a good team of horses and
bring them back for Tevasomeday. But in the meantime, I
just want to work on curating agood team of horses. So

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#77 Jessie Dowling: A Journey of Passion and Resilience

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#77 Jessie Dowling: A Journey of Passion and Resilience

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