#79 Nancy Zintsmaster: The Power of Presence and Authenticity

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Lynn, Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life and now here's
your host, Lynn Carnes,

Lynn (00:18):
Welcome to the Creative Spirits Unleash Podcast. I'm
Lynn Carnes your host. My guestfor this episode is Nancy
Zenzimaster who is co founderand master trainer in the
Carolyn Resnick method, liberty,horsemanship. More on that in a
minute. But first, I'm going tostart this introduction with a
question, what would your lifeand leadership look like if you

(00:43):
are able to partner with othersusing connection and harmony
rather than control force orfear. That is the core question.
Nan and I explored in thisconversation. We got into the
deep corners of what it lookslike to create connection in a
frankly disconnected world withboth humans and with horses. In
this conversation, we got intothe implications for our own

(01:06):
self awareness and selfrealization, learning how to be
congruent within ourselves, howto give up control, which
ironically gives you morecontrol and what it takes to get
back in touch with our NaturalHumanity. Imagine dancing with
the others in your life throughconnection and harmony. Now more
about Nancy. She's the cofounder, certified instructor

(01:29):
and master trainer in theCarolyn Resnick method, Liberty
horsemanship. She embodies thetransformational power of the
Carolyn Resnick method, alifelong horse enthusiast. Her
love for these magnificentanimals began in childhood, but
it wasn't until she discoveredCarolyn Resnick book naked
liberty that she realized theprofound connection possible
between humans and horses. Herjourney took a pivotal turn in

(01:53):
Costa Rica, where she rescuedseven horses in dire conditions,
committed to earning their trustand respect, she embraced
Carolyn's Liberty trainingapproach. What started as a
rescue mission, evolved into adeeply personal transformation,
revealing that these sentientbeings had as much to teach her
as she had to teach them.
Nancy's path eventually led herto Carolyn Resnick herself,
forging a life changingpartnership. Carolyn recognized

(02:16):
Nancy's natural gift with horsesand her passion for the Resnick
method, this collaborationsolidified Nancy's role as one
of its most dedicated advocates.
Today, as a master trainer,Nancy is committed to sharing
the Resnick method with horselovers worldwide. She teaches

(02:36):
this compassionate and effectivecommunication style to promote
better relationships betweenhumans and horses, ensuring both
receive mutual rewards. Nancyresides at her ranch dance with
horses, the Resnick methodsCosta Rica, location, perched
atop a mountain withbreathtaking views of Lake
Arenal and the Arenal Volcano.
There, she continues her missionto inspire others through her

(02:59):
work with horses. Now back toLynn. I had the good fortune to
be in a clinic with Nan thislast September. Watching her
work with horses at Liberty istruly a sight to behold. If you
do happen to be interested inher clinic, she has several
scheduled, both in Costa Ricaand in the States next year.
Now, the one I'm most interestedin is the one being held just

(03:20):
down the road from me at rainrescue, where I am on the board
of directors. Dates for thatclinic are july 22 through the
24th 2025so I hope you enjoy this
conversation with Nancyzensmester, well, Nan Zins
master, welcome to the creativespirits unleash podcast. Thank
you. Thank you so much forhaving me.

(03:44):
I'm been looking I've beenlooking forward to this in some
ways, since I met you, which wasover a year ago, but especially
since we got a chance for me tocome to one of your clinics in
September,when we decided to we we just
simply had to sit down and havea podcast conversation.
So I, I'm actually going tostart this morning. You said

(04:05):
that you you live in Costa Rica.
Tell me what's happening inCosta Rica right now. Give us a
picture of where you are on thisplanet and what's happening
there. Just to ground everybodyto to you and your place,
absolutely. Well, I moved herealmost 20 years ago. We live in
a small rural village outside ofLa Fortuna Costa Rica on Lake

(04:27):
Arenal in the Arnall volcano. Sowhen we got here, there were
very few expats from anycountry, one of three. And we
found this amazing hidden gemthat we immediately bought as a
retirement place to go forretirement. And it's truly

(04:48):
magical. It's an energy vortex.
It's borders that one of thefive blue zones in the world.
And it is spectacular.

Nan (05:00):
Her. It's a beautiful healing energy, and it was a big
part of my journey with horsesand how I got into what I'm
doing now. So yeah, I have sevenhorses here, a husband, three
dogs, one of my daughters, threegrandchildren, all here with me.
So it's a really special life.

Lynn (05:21):
Oh my gosh. I think everybody's got to be thinking,
I want to go there now. TellTell me. Tell me what. Tell me
about the I want to dive in onthe blue zone and the energy
vortex of where you are. BecauseI'm going to, I'm going to say
when I met you and your and yourhusband, who we call Z, right.

(05:45):
Dan is Daniel. His real name,Dan, yeah, at the podcast
Summit. And at first I didn'tknow who he was, but I was like,
I need to know who that guy is,because both of you being near
you is almost like having anenergy vortex like you, you both
have a grounded energy about youthat is very distinct from the

(06:08):
average person you pass on thestreet, not necessarily the
average person at the podcastSummit, because we can talk
about that, but that doesattract a lot of people that
have really great energy. Butyou guys really, even in that
environment, stand out so it Iknow some of it comes from
within, but some of it has tocome from where you are and what
you feel on a regular basis. Socould you describe what that

(06:28):
place is like? Absolutely, Ithink that that I have become
more aware of that as the yearshave passed by, that the purity
of life here has really helpedbalance us and help us grow
spiritually and learn a lot ofpatience, right?

Nan (06:46):
One of the things I think that's so the blue zone is in
the peninsula here, and our areaborders that. And when I say
it's an energy vortex, it's likewhen people come here, you can
feel a shift in energyimmediately. And when we first
landed here, we came on aspontaneous trip. I think I've

(07:08):
told this in other podcasts, butwhen I met my husband, and we
were living in Key West, and onour first day, he said, I have a
few things to tell you aboutmyself. I was like, okay, didn't
know him at all, really, youknow, just a couple interactions
before that, and he said, I havethree children. I love
unconditionally. I play poker onWednesday nights, and I plan to

(07:29):
retire in Costa Rica. Do youhave a problem with it?

Lynn (07:33):
That's called Full Disclosure up front,

Nan (07:37):
I was like, I don't even know if I like you yet, but no,
it's all good. And then aboutfive years in, he's like, hey,
you know, I was really seriousabout that Costa Rica part, so
let's go. And he had been heremany, many years ago and many
times, and I hadn't. So we justdecided to wing it when we got
here. We just wanted to traveland land wherever we landed. And
when we got here, it was anextreme

(08:01):
shift of energy that we feltwhen we got in front of this
volcano. And I remember we droveto this little cabin we were
staying at. When we got out ofthe car, the volcano was right
in our face. We're on the lake,and we were like, wow, and we're
staring, both of us, at thisvolcano. And I just got full
body chills, and I startedcrying like I was tears down my

(08:22):
face, and I was, I was kind ofembarrassed. I don't know why.
It was just so emotional, thisenergy. And I looked over at
him, and he was the same, and Isaid, you know, I feel like I'm
home, do you? And he goes, Yeah,it was really intense. And a lot
of people feel that shift whenthey enter this area. And I
think it's just, you know, it'slike, it's the four elements,

(08:43):
right? You know, there's the atthat time, especially the
volcano was erupting likebeautifully erupting fireworks
every night and day. And there'sthe Earth, the air, the clean
water. And what makes a BlueZone is the purity of those
things, the purity of the water,the air, the clean life, the,

(09:04):
you know, grown food. Peoplelive longer in blue zones. And
there's people that have livedhere 205 years old. So you know
that's, that's what we'redealing with here. So when you
get to this, especially thispiece of property surrounded by
the canu Negro river runninginto Lake far and all

(09:24):
surrounding the lakes around thevolcano. And it's, we're all,
we're in the center on the topof a mountain around that. So
the energy is there just such abeautiful ebb and flow, right?
So I think that the purity oflife here is
it has really enhanced our wellbeing. Not to say that it's not,

(09:46):
you know, there's, there's aprice to pay for Paradise,
right? We live in the tropicalrain forest, but it's, it's just
been an amazing adventure for usand way of life.

Lynn (09:59):
I.
So I have, I have a couple ofquestions about that. I'm going
to start with the volcano, andthen I have a question about
back when you were first datingDan, but when you said you came
and the volcano was erupting,and yet you're considering
moving right next door to it.
Help me reconcile, especially, Ihave to give a little context,
because I'm living in a placethat's epically beautiful in the

(10:21):
mountains of North Carolina, andyet we are subject to because of
the

Nan (10:30):
the mountainous terrain, floods, which we just had an
epic flood here a couple ofmonths ago that destroyed
several towns, took away housesand so forth. And so people
lived in paradise until itwasn't paradise. Absolutely. How
is it living with a volcano? Andis it? Are you worried about it
being paradise until it's notparadise? No, when we had done

(10:55):
some research, actually it was,it wasn't erupting that much
when we first got here, when wefirst saw, you know, you could
see the smoke, and they say, youknow, lava was coming down. But
shortly after that, it startederupting, and it attracted an
enormous amount of tourism here,and it actually,

(11:17):
they say it won't erupt foranother 200 years. I can't
remember the year it stoppederupting. I want to say it might
have been like 2010or something like that. I can't
really remember, but anyway, itdid erupt big in 1968 and killed
like, I think it was 87 people.
There's actually when the lakeis really low. On the other side

(11:38):
of the lake, in the this otherarea you can actually see, like
graveyard and stuff like that.
But what they did was they builtthe lake around the volcano. So
it's a man made 26 mile lake toprotect the village now that
it's garrit, and so if it, ifit, if it did erupt, it wouldn't
hit the land of the people thatare in it, right? And it is, I

(12:02):
think it's like 85% of thecountry's electricity comes from
that lake. So, yeah, so, so,yeah, I never felt threatened by
it.
It was absolutely beautiful. Andthey it because it's venting all
of the time. This particularvolcano is venting constantly.

(12:23):
That's why they say it willnever erupt into that place of
danger anymore. So the theerupting every day is the
venting of it, right? The Loveis coming out so it's not
explode, but it was not buildingup, no. And it was absolutely
beautiful. I used to just lookat it and be like, Am I really
sitting here watching this outof my front yard.

Unknown (12:43):
That is so cool. So I've I'm thinking back when you
and Dan first started dating,and he gave you the announcement
about the poker and the CostaRica and the children, of
course. And I'm also thinkingabout like any, any time I've
been in a, I'm going to call itan interview situation, you
know, or the beginning of day.
It's been a long time. I've beenmarried over 30 years, so it's

(13:05):
been a long time since I've beenin the dating situation. But
there's, like, this initialthing where it's like, somebody
makes an announcement like that,and you go, yeah, sure. Because,
like I said, I don't even knowif I like you yet. We'll cross
that bridge when we come to it.
I'm really curious. Did you haveany hesitation five years in
when he was like, Oh, he reallymeant it, like, did you go?

(13:27):
Dang, I wish I hadn't said I wasokay. Or were you thrilled to
go, or somewhere in between? No,I was actually thrilled to go.
And it's interesting, because Ireally have had an adventurous
life, and I really, even thoughin my recent years, obviously,
I've practiced a lot morepresence, you know. I I think I

(13:49):
always kind of had that open toeverything, stay in the moment,
you know. And so I wasdefinitely willing to come and
take a look. I mean, it wasn'tmandatory. He wouldn't have done
it if I didn't want to but yetat the same time, it was
exciting. I like change, and soI was super excited about the
opportunity to just be able togo and see Costa Rica. I really

(14:12):
had no idea that I would fall inlove with it like I did.

Nan (14:17):
And the deal was also that we would keep both our place in
Key West, where I had raised mychildren, and have this place.
And it didn't. It did not end uplike that, but it was the
original deal. So that feltreally safe to me to have a
vacation home in retirement andthen have my place in Key West.

(14:39):
So things took a shift, but thatwas, I think, the safe place,
right? I didn't just commit tojust hack up and move right away

Lynn (14:47):
well, and that strikes me, like, from the beginning, you
guys had a picture that you wereworking with, but you didn't,
like instantly make it happen.
It took a lot of different movesand frames and Like.
You said it wasn't just turningit off and on, which I'm going
to relate to working with horsesin a few minutes. But you guys

(15:07):
took it one step at a time.
Yeah, we did. And then, youknow,

Nan (15:13):
actually, speaking of hurricanes, Hurricane Wilma,
when it came through Key WestFlorida, it was 2006
I believe, it totally wiped outour island. It was devastating,
much like what you'veexperienced in Asheville, and it
changed everything. I was adesigner back then. I had a

(15:33):
design center. I had the onlyDesign Center in South Florida,
and it was a very lucrativebusiness. And I'd always been in
business my whole life, andtrying to rebuild after the
hurricane was extremelydifficult and very lucky,
because we actually stayedduring the hurricane, and a lot
of people evacuated, and so forthat reason, we could clean up

(15:56):
fast, like we got all the waterout of our house. It was
actually not the hurricane thathit. It was a surge after the
hurricane that flooded theisland. It's that surge, yeah?
And so, of course, Hurricaneinsurance didn't cover anything,
right? Nobody had floodinsurance back then because
they'd never been a flood. Andso it was just kind of like,
wow, we're at zero sea level.
Like, why wouldn't anybody haveflood insurance? But anyway,

(16:17):
their FEMA didn't help. Therewas a lot of woe in that, right?
And so we stayed until we couldmy daughter was in 10th grade,
my second daughter and the otherone in college, and we had
planned to start going back andforth to Costa Rica after the
kids got out of school. And westayed and tried to rebuild, and

(16:38):
tried to rebuild during thatperiod of time that my daughter
would graduate from high school,and we just couldn't get back on
our feet. It was reallydifficult. And in order to save
the ship and keep her in school,we spent most of our retirement
money getting our life backtogether, building the business
again, which at the time, youknow, you do what you have to

(17:00):
do, but it wasn't the smartestmove, because nobody was doing
interior design. Think about itlike they Yeah, didn't even have
homes, right? So it became verydifficult. And as I had said to
you before, and I guess I toldthe story at the podcast summit
about, you know, if that hadn'thappened, I really wouldn't be
here. And so we took thatjourney because we had to make a

(17:24):
choice then, like after Dannygraduated, we had to say, Okay,
we can't do both. Which are wegoing to do? And we chose Costa
Rica.

Lynn (17:35):
Isn't it interesting how sometimes the devastating things
of life are the kick in thepants, we need to just go ahead
and do what we were supposed todo all along.

Nan (17:45):
Absolutely, I totally believe in Synchro destiny. I
know now that that was meant tohappen, and you know everything
we did, and when I think backabout how hard it was and how
devastating it was, every singledoor slammed every single time
we tried to stay there, like wekept trying to stay, trying to

(18:06):
stay was just doors closing, andit was like the universe saying
you need to go, like, wake up.
When are you going to get thepicture? And once we did make
that move it. The wholetrajectory of our lives changed.
I mean, it pushed me on to thepath that I'm supposed to be on,
which is how I got to where I amwith Carolyn Resnick and the

(18:28):
horses well, and I, I'm going tojump ahead to a part of your
story I'm familiar with, becauseit strikes me that you had
another door slam in your facewhen COVID hit and you got stuck
in the United States,absolutely, it's like natural
disasters are just following us.

Lynn (18:47):
Well, I mean, so you so.
So tell that story. I know youwere in America when things
started shutting down. Yes. Andso interesting, yeah. So tell
that story, because I feel like,particularly my in my life, in
my circle at this stage, I we,they just announced, for
example, there's a company here.

(19:08):
Several companies are not goingto be able to reopen after the
hurricane here. One was diamondbrand Outfitters, that has been
in existence for 143No, yeah. And they just their
their factory where they madetents and other things, is was
completely decimated. And it'sthe surge here was not just, and

(19:30):
I don't know how much mud therewas in key, key west, but all of
our surges came with inches, ifnot feet, of mud. Yeah. And so
the mud is often even worse thanthe water, obviously, but, but
they just couldn't recover, andthey didn't have the resources
to bring it back. They did. Theysaid they did it, and I haven't
dove in, and I'm not going toquestion them to make that call.

(19:51):
The point being, all of thosepeople are at that choice point
of, okay, what do we go do now?
And it looked.
So devastating and, and I thinkis devastating, if the focus
stays on the devastation, asopposed to, okay, what now,
yeah, and exactly right, I'mhearing that in the way you

(20:13):
approached Costa Rica is okay,the doors have slammed, okay.
What? Now and then, you know,all these years later, because I
think you've been in Costa Ricafor a while COVID hits, and
you're in America

Nan (20:26):
and you couldn't get home.
So say a little bit about howthat happened for you. Yeah,
that was something. And youknow, if that hadn't happened, I
would have never met you,because I would have never met
Warwick.
And so, yeah, it's just sobeautiful the way it all ended
up. But I was actually inCalifornia at Caroline's, and we

(20:47):
were preparing to teach in athree week internship program,
and Caroline got sick and well,actually, to back up a little, I
was actually up in Santa Cruzteaching a clinic, and
I was supposed to come home,that was in the beginning of
February, supposed to come homeand go back at the beginning of

(21:10):
March to Carolyn. And she gotsick. We know now she got COVID,
but we didn't know. And I said,to see I'm going to go to
Carolyn, you know, because sheneeds me there, and I'm going to
just there, if you're cool withit, and then you can come visit
me when I get there and stay fora week. His sister lives 20
minutes from her, and you canvisit. And then we won't be a

(21:30):
part so long. And so I What didthat? And then he came the first
week of March, and he was therethree days before they announced
COVID 19 and locked the bordersto Costa Rica.
And a little back story on thatmy husband had developed is a

(21:51):
very interesting story that Idon't have to tell now, but he
developed celiac disease from avery interesting
path that he tookanyway to get back on it, let me
get back on it. So he developedceliac disease, but we didn't
know it for a long time thatthat was what was making him
sick, and immune system wassuper low, and he was
recovering. We had found out bythem, but he was recovering. So

(22:13):
when we got locked down in theStates, we could have gotten
back because we own propertyhere. We have a corporation
here. But we were like, Okay,we're not going to go back,
because the whole world wasupside down. We didn't know what
was happening. And this is ourhome country, the United States.
Maybe we stay for medical what'sgoing on in Costa Rica? We
didn't know. Actually, CostaRica was one of the top

(22:35):
countries that had it undercontrol, but nobody knew that.
So no, we didn't know anything.
No. So we're at Caroline's whenit happened, and it was,
you know, by then, I think wehad just kind of gotten used to
getting hit with things. It wasjust like, Okay, here's another,
you know, turn that we need totake, and we're just going to go

(22:56):
with it. And then, as I've saidmany times, I mean, who gets
locked down with CarolynResnick, like, that's a gift,
you know what I mean. And bythen, I had been with Carolyn
for, I don't know, like,five or six years and so, but
the advancement of my educationfrom living with her that long,
and I had spent time with hermonths with her at one time, at

(23:17):
times, you know? But this wasjust an inundation of like,
everything that she could offerme, right? And so she got well.
And while I was there, a horsenamed Pericles came into my
life, which was really the horsethat really changed my life and
made me understand the power ofconnection with horses at that

(23:40):
time in my growth with horses,and I met him at that clinic up
in Santa Cruz that I was atbefore I got to Caroline's, and
I was doing a fundraiser clinicfor a pregnant Mayor rescue at
this beautiful ranchthat this woman owned, and it
was her horse. And when I got tothe clinic, she said, Will you

(24:00):
work with this horse? He's XYZ,he's aggressive. He's too much
for me. He's a Frisian, huge.
He's spooky. He's young. He hadbeen shipped from Holland, like
at two years old, with a lot ofdressage training on him. It was
kind of like a lot of pow. Powtraining is what I call it. And

(24:21):
I said, Sure, sure, no problem.
So I went into the arena withhim, and within literally, like,
15 minutes of starting thatclinic, he was so connected to
me. He was like, in my pocket,and everyone was in tears. It
was very beautiful. A lot ofthese people knew this horse.
It's a small community, and sheactually wanted me to have that

(24:41):
horse. And I was kind of like,no, no, no, I can't. Like, I
live in Costa Rica, would neverbring him there. Wouldn't be
fair. You know, he had neverbeen with other horses. He was a
stable kind of horse, and so ashow horse type horse. So.
So when I got locked down atCarolyn's, she offered to let

(25:05):
him come down and put him intraining with me and Carolyn and
then gave me that horse, whowas magnificent. And because
Carolyn was sick and she stillhadn't completely recovered, I
and we wanted to train himtogether, to have like our the
horse that we did together,because we live separately, so

(25:27):
we've never had our horsetogether. So I waited, I waited
for her to get well, and I satwith that horse, just sat in a
chair and shared territory withthat horse for about six weeks.
And do you know that that horsewas, like, trained from that,
and literally everything thatI've ever asked him to do after

(25:48):
that, he was just yep, yep, yep,yep, that I can do that. He is
our student horse, the biggestmarshmallow horse you ever met.
He has now been integrated intoa herd of seven in North
Carolina. As you know,he is a testament to this method
and the beauty of it. And youknow, if I hadn't gotten locked

(26:10):
down there, I would have nevergotten that horse.
Andthe other beautiful part of the
story that is memorable to howwe met is that during that time
I was with Carolyn. Now it wasJuly, and I thought, you know,
he is so amazing. I want to seeif he could be an exhibition

(26:31):
horse. I want to trailer him upto Santa Cruz. I asked Deborah
adequate, who was the owner ofhim. I said, Hey, Ken. I bring
him up there, and he could staythere, and then I could haul him
into different places, differentarenas of students that I have
up there, see if he can handleit. She's like, Sure. So we get
up there, and the wildfiresbroke out as soon as we got

(26:52):
there, and Deborah got COVID, soshe asked us to stay. We were
only supposed to be gone twoweeks. So she asked if we could
stay and help. And I said, Yes,she was on the evacuation route.
So Ava Jones and she and, Imean, my husband and I, we
rescued 35 horses droop throughthe wildfires. And I got a call

(27:13):
from Warren, and he said, Hey,you know, I would love to do a
podcast with you in Carolyn, andI live up here in
where is it? Holly Hollister.
Hollister. Hollister, yeah, yes.
And he said, where are you? AndI said, Oh, I'm in Aptos. I'm

(27:35):
staying at this beautiful ranchwith you know. And I described
the ranch, and he said, Are youon Pleasant Valley Road? And I'm
like, Yeah. He goes, You arekidding. That used to be called
divine ranch, and I was therewhen they were building it. .
He's like, the people whooriginally owned it, I was the
trainer of their horses. Hesaid, I watched them build that

(27:58):
and bring in the marble andeverything from Italy. And he's
like, you've got to be kidding.
I'm like, No, this is where Iam. And I had a clinic coming up
because I decided to do a clinicduring COVID Because we were
outside a lot of space to givepeople something to do. And he
asked if he could come, and hedid. And that's how I met
Warwick. And then, of course, weproceeded to do the podcast

(28:22):
shortly after, and then thesummit invitation and met you.
Yeah, wow.

Lynn (28:29):
So for those who are listening that don't know who
Carolyn Resnick is, by the way,quick, can you quickly say who
she is, so that they have somecontext?

Nan (28:38):
Yes. So Carolyn Resnick is, she is the most amazing,
talented horse trainer that youwould ever want to meet. She is
been, she's beentransformational in the world of
horses. And she developedLiberty training back in 1976
she coined the term Libertytraining. It's actually

(29:00):
registered to us,and she wrote a book, naked
liberty, which is a beautifulmemoir, and it is based on her
observation of horses in thewild wild horses. She's a herd
behavior specialist, and she'sdedicated, like I don't know, 70
years to this work and sharingit with the world to give horses

(29:23):
a better deal. And when I got toCosta Rica, I didn't mention
this, but one of the deals Imade with my husband is, if we
go to Costa Rica, I'm going tohave horses again, because I had
had horses my whole life, but inKey West, it wasn't possible.
So I rescued some horses, and Ifound Carolyn through those

(29:43):
rescued horses, and I was reallystuck on what to do with them,
because they were sodisconnected and shut down and
had been abused, and I wasreaching out to like minded
trainers that I thought would beable to help. And she when I
found her.
Book. I knew that was the paththat I needed to take. And then
I met her and started studyingunder her. And then I just knew

(30:09):
I had a veryI had the only property
management company in this area,my husband and I, he sold real
estate, he did propertymanagement here, and but I knew
immediately after working withCarolyn that this was going to
be the path that I took for therest of my life. I knew it was
my destiny to share this methodwith the world, and a few years
in, Carolyn asked me to be herbusiness partner. So now we're

(30:32):
business partners, and we bothcoach online and teach clinics,
andwe have a beautiful friendship
and a beautiful partnership. Butshe is, I believe, the mentor
that gave me the most knowledge,and then I think it was the most
growth that I've ever had in myentire life into self

(30:53):
realization, because the biggestprogram is self realization
through the training of forces.
And I feel like I owe everythingto her for how I got to where I
am today.

Lynn (31:07):
Well, that right there is, like a very intriguing topic,
because I feel like at least inmy own experience, and what I
think I witness in others whenwe bring our lives to horses,
and frankly, if we bring bringourselves to anything else, it
could be in leadership orrelationships. It's as if we

(31:29):
want to believe that we knowwhat to do,
and that means that it's almosta one sided conversation. I'm
going to bring my knowledge toyou, and then you do what I tell
you to do.
Yeah, that is, that is not howthis works for you and and if
you have a two way streetwhere there is a conversation

(31:52):
with the other,then you have to discover a lot
about yourself as somethingcomes back that isn't what you
expectedAbsolutely. So, yeah, so say a
little bit about what selfrealization through horses
means, and particularly around aword you used earlier, which you

(32:15):
talked about it bringing you topresence. Yeah? So, big topics
here, big, deep topics, but I'dlove to hear you riff on those.

Nan (32:25):
Yeah. Well, you know, when I think back about the idea of
sitting in a chair with horses,it was something that I never
knew about. I I thought I knew alot about horses. You know, my
grandfather had a breeding farm,and I grew up with horses since
I was old and I, he was a verysweet, gentle horse whisperer,
whisper kind of guy, but he alsoit was obviously a more dominant

(32:49):
way of, you know, traininghorses 60 years ago. And so I
reallyhad no idea what I would be
doing, sitting in a chair with ahorse. But half of this program
that Carolyn teaches is aboutfinding present moment awareness
and learning more aboutourselves so that we can be
present to horses and in thatthey find a sense of safety and

(33:13):
and this is how you build a verydeep cross species bond with
divorce. So the Self Realizationpart of this is about getting
really in touch with your ownemotions, being truly authentic
to yourself andto the environment, being

(33:34):
present to the environment, andallowing the energy of the
environment and the presence toguide you in the decisions that
you would make with the horseand waiting for the horse to
connect with you and invite youinto his world. And when you do
that, it is miraculous how therelationship changes between you

(33:58):
and the horse, and in that we doa lot of awareness exercises and
journaling and meditating andreading. And when we do that,
and we forget about the horse,and we ignore the horse and we
have no agenda, that's the piecethat brings the horse closer to
us. So that's the part of, youknow, what she teaches. I think

(34:21):
that had the most impact on me,because I was always in what we
call trainer's mind. You know, Igot to do something with these
horses. I have to fix thesehorses. These horses are shut
down. These horses are x, y, z,whatever we all say about our
horses. But what I quicklylearned was those horses were
not checked out and shut down.

(34:45):
They were waiting for me to showup and to show up to be
authentically me and not be anon agenda. And I think we go
through our lives with agenda somuch more than we do in.
Presence. And so, you know, Ialways say, if I could, if I had
to pick one thing that I learnedfrom Carolyn Resnick, it would

(35:08):
be awareness. And I think thatawareness is what has guided me
through these last, you know, 15years of just staying, being
aware of the miracles, beingaware of everything that's going
on around me, and I think it'sthe gift that she gave me,
and the gift that the horseshave given me in return, is this

(35:32):
amazing ability to connect withthem
without an agenda, without anagenda, without tack, without
having to fix it, because thehorses don't need fixing.
There's no problem horses. It'salways the human. I have yet to
meet one problem horse. So youknow, the vices that horses have

(35:52):
are created by the human andtheir lack of understanding how
to communicate with a horse. Sohorses just can't speak our
language, but we learn theirlanguage, and we're clear and
intentional. We come withauthenticity. They're there to
show up and take us to a higherconsciousness, for sure.

Lynn (36:11):
Well, I just, in a very simple way, the idea of agenda
is something I came tounderstand both in working with
you in September and somewhatbefore, and even a lot since.
Because, as you know, I'm I workwith rain rescue, and we have,
now, we have six Mustangs. Webefore that, we had feral

(36:31):
horses, which would beconsidered domestic horses, but
untouched,both super simple, super super
sensitive to humans, andespecially humans minds. And
what has been really telling forme is the way, when I work with
those horses, when I shift intowhat I think you called it

(36:51):
trainer's mind, and I call it myagenda mind, that having an
agenda in your mind actuallycreates an energy that they can
feel,yeah. And we we talk when joy
and I are working in in ourgroup, we often talk about blue
energy versus red energy. Blueenergy meaning we're letting the

(37:13):
horse tell us what to do, whento do, how to do, versus red
energy, which means we think weknow what to do. Yeah. And the
horses respond dramaticallydifferent
from each energy. And then youhave to find a way to actually
move in the world without anagenda like, Okay, now we're
going to fill in the blank,put on a halter, or ask the

(37:36):
horse to move, or whatever, anddo it in a way that doesn't
interfere with the movement,especially with these sensitive
horses. So I know you know, youcould write a dissertation on
what I just said, but I'd loveto hear what you think or what
your experience.

Nan (37:54):
The beautiful thing about Carolyn Resnick work and her her
method of communicating withhorses. She named it the water
hole rituals, because shewitnessed a lot of the
interactions that horses, howthey communicate with one
another at the water hole. Andshe named it because this is how
horses, this whole entire way ofbeing with horses, is how they

(38:15):
actually communicate with oneanother, to eliminate pecking
order, to bring harmonyleadership. You know, they're
leaders of leaders, and they'rehow they have stayed safe for
over 50 million years, you know?
Soone of the things that I think
is so important, and what we canwitness in the waterhole rituals
with Pharaoh horses or wildhorses, is they're very much in
touch with their naturalinstincts. Where horses in

(38:36):
captivity, horses that havenever been with other horses
their whole lives may be takenaway from their mothers too
young and imprinted by humans,all of those things we do to
horses. It's not their choice.
They don't have a choice. Wehave done good by rescuing a lot
of these horses and taking careof them when they had nowhere to

(38:57):
go, but at the same time, theydon't get to be horses. So this
method actually brings anunderstanding to the horse that
they have a choice, they have avoice. And it's about
congruency. It's about not justbeing, you know,
let's say present, but also howwe do one thing is how we do

(39:18):
everything. We talked about thisyesterday, Q and A, you know,
being able when you just go tohalter the horse. How do you do
that? How do you feed all of thelittle things that we take for
granted, but we go, okay, nowI'm going to go train my horse.
I have to be in prison like, No,it has to start when you're
putting on your boots, in yourhouse, in your house. How are

(39:39):
you yourself to the horse. Whatis the energy that you want to
bring to your life? And I thinkit would, you know, if we could
use this, which is what we'rehoping for everyone in our
everyday lives, like just tostart our day. How do we do
that, to bring the harmony thatwe all seek in community with
our spouse?

(40:00):
This and their friends. So it's,you know, when you're working
with feral and wild horses likeyou are, the reason you're
seeing this dramatic shift, eventhough you all have been
practicing a lot of amazingthings with those horses, is now
you're bringing clarity. You'rebringing this understanding of I
know how to communicate withyou, and I'm always going to
find my entry point ofconnection. I'm never going to

(40:22):
make you do anything you do toand when you bring that to the
horse, the horses want to bewith us. They want to connect
with us. They want community.
But don't want to be put in abox and told what to do,
especially if they don'tunderstand it, and then they
start to blow up. That's whenyou start to see the vices,
right? So I think that you'rewitnessing now that is so

(40:42):
beautiful. And I love the blueenergy, red energy, yeah,
because it's, it's superhelpful, I think, for people to
understand where they are inthat dynamic, right?

Lynn (40:59):
Well, and when I'm unconsciously in red energy, and
we help each other. We noticeit, but I'm usually incongruent
in some way, and so we oftencall that being double tonguing,
meaning I'm asking for twocontradictory things at the same
time, or maybe feelingdifferently inside than I am
outside. For example, I'm tryingto show calm when I'm not

(41:22):
feeling calm.
That's, you know, one of thethings that's been really eye
opening is to recognize that ifyou can just feel what you're
feeling, the horse is reallylike that,
whereas if you try to hide whatyou're feeling, they go, Oh, you
are getting a little bitnervous. You're making me a

(41:43):
little nervous there.
And we're conditioned to hidewhat we feel, though, because I
think as humans, we're notliving with our natural
instincts. We've beenconditioned to fit into a box of
society. And so in some ways,we're living in the in the
dysfunction that we're bringingthe horses in as into as well.

Nan (42:07):
Yeah, that's, that's exactly what I was going to say.
We're just not in touch with ourtrue nature. You know, if we got
to grow up in the jungle, right,like mound leaf,
you know, we could speak, youknow, who we are and not
conditioned, we wouldn't haveall the problems that we have,
obviously, but especially withhorses. You know, I can always
tell in a clinic environmentwhen

(42:31):
someone goes out to be with thehorses and And mind you, in this
liberty training method Carolynput together, we're not training
the horses. The horses aregetting trained, but we're not
training the horses to do thesethings. So someone comes here to
work with my horses, they're notgoing to do everything you ask,
because they're just welltrained horses. They're waiting
for you to show up. And I canalways tell when someone goes

(42:51):
out with the horses and they'renot congruent, like they are
showing up, and they're showingup with no fear, and they're
showing up like they know orwhatever their feelings are, and
they're hiding it, because thisaren't going anywhere near them.
And I'm like, this isinteresting. My horses are super
connected to people. So, youknow, then I can walk them

(43:12):
through a scenario and get themto to share what's going on
inside, but the moment they do,those horses are like magnets.
You know, it proves itself overand over that coming in
authentically,the horses can read that, and
they don't have any fear ofthat. When we're inauthentic and
we are in our head space, that'sscary for horses. They're like

(43:33):
that doesn't feel comfortable,that doesn't feel congruent, and
so I just think I'll stay awayfrom that. And I think that's
one of the biggest problems, ifI had to choose one that people
have with horses, is that thinktheir horses don't want to
connect, or their horse is justnot a connecting horse, or horse
doesn't like them, not at all.

(43:58):
The minute that they shift thatconsciousness the horse show up

Lynn (44:03):
well. And I honestly think it was one of the scariest
things for me when I was incorporate America. And it's
something I work with, with myclients today, which is there's
a lot of saying one thing andmeaning another. And you're,
you're as much on the defensive,trying to figure out what's
really going on. You know theold Well, we're not, we just had
a merger, but we're not going tohave layoffs. Well, none of us

(44:23):
believe that, or we just had amerger, and nothing's going to
change. Nobody believes thateither. You know. So the those
kind of things that we do toeach other, we also do to
horses. It's just that they showus in a much clearer way,
because they're not in on thegame like we are.

Nan (44:44):
Yeah, and there's such a mirror to our souls, you know,
you really get to see who youare if you're paying attention
to your horse, and when youbecome present enough to observe
that and to be aware of that,that's where we can make change.
That's where we can shift intobeing, you know, in going into

(45:04):
our higher selves, our spiritualselves, and I think that is the
spirituality piece that I findso intriguing about working and
being with horses, is that wejust have to show up and be
aware and be clear, clarity.
What was the saying that yousaid at the clinic, that I kept
saying to ask, can you torepeat? Do you remember? Oh,

(45:26):
goodness, oh, I don't remember.
What was it? Oh? Was it clarity?
Is kindness? No, it wassomething about that. It was
something about in intentionaland
oh, gosh, anyway, gosh, I wroteit down. I don't have it with
me. I actually wrote it downtoo, but it was, yeah, yeah, it

(45:49):
was. And it was so perfect, theway you described what you you
rephrase what I was teaching inthe moment at that clinic. And
it was perfect. And I think thatthat's where we can use forces
as our healers and guides. And Idon't like the word use, but
work with horses as our healersand guides, right? So Well,

(46:09):
yeah, I think that, yeah, youuse has a has a dominant sort of
tone to it, even though I thinkit can be a neutral word as
well, which is, you know, it'sall when things are coming at
you, you've got to use what'scoming for you. You know, like
it has been told to be able toto mirror ourselves. Oh, I see

(46:31):
what you're what, where I amright now, in this moment with
this horse. And if you're ableto do that, I think that people
try so hardto in this method is extremely
hard, as you know, toarticulate. There's so much to
it. It's so much nuance in it.
Every horse and human isdifferent. But I think that the

(46:52):
tools that we give students tobe able to do this, if they
don't get in their head and tryto make it a step by step thing
and really read what's going oneach moment. I think that they
just need tolisten to their intuition.
That's the key. And I thinkthat's where we that's one of
the things that takes us awayfrom our true selves, right? Not

(47:13):
listening to our gut instinct,to our intuition, and Oh, thank
goodness, yes. Did more of that?
You know, then it helps us bemore authentic in our lives and
resources. Well, I spend a lotof time with my left brain
clients, helping them get backin touch with their natural
senses, which is where theirintuition lives. Yes, and again,

(47:36):
back to the conditioning that'sbeen done to us. There's many
things that need a lot of steps.

Lynn (47:43):
Flying airplanes is a great example, because I've done
that off and on through my life,and it's something that you
would say is a very rule, boundstep bound, rigid, procedural
thing to do for safety, sure andand yet, there's a lot of
intuition, if you'll allowyourself to also feel.

(48:05):
And there's a big differencebetween the way you take a, you
know, an approach, let's say, inhigh wind, in a small, little
airplane, like I flew, withintuition and with not. And I've
told the story before, but whatreally was stunning for me was
when I handed the controls overas I was just taking my flying
lessons, most recently, myflying instructor was like 40

(48:29):
years younger than me, and shesaid, I've got the controls. And
I had been correcting for the itwas a bouncy day, and I'd been
correcting you're constantlycorrecting if you're not on
autopilot, for altitude and forheading and for the bounce, and,
you know, it was bumpy, and sothere was quite a bit of bumping
going on in the plane anyway,and I expected it to be the same

(48:50):
when she took the controls, andthe plane immediately settled
down,and I commented on it, and she
said, That's because you wereover and under correcting.
And I thought, how interesting,because the same thing happens.
Sometimes on horses, I'm overand under correcting because my

(49:10):
senses are too numb to catch theoftenness quickly enough to
back, go back into balance, likemy correction. You know, if you
were to put it on a ruler, Mycorrection was like, call it two
or three inches, and hers wasmaybe two or three centimeters
or even less,because it took my senses that
long to tune in. And what Inoticed in working with your

(49:33):
method is it helps you, if youcan trust your intuition, and
that's a personal journey,because you've got a light. Get
rid of the layers of peopletelling you what your rules were
and what you're supposed to do,or how to navigate, as we do
with flying. Yes, I'm followingthe rules, but I'm also
following my feel

Nan (49:55):
absolutely and you know, they there's a saying, you know,
you can't teach feel. Well,that's exactly what.
We teach. It's about being insoft feel like pretty much with
everything. And you know thewater hole rituals, you know you
work with those five heartfeltstrings of connection, and it is
the way to live life. Carolynalways says the water hole
rituals can save the world, andit's the truth. I use it with my

(50:18):
relationships, with my husband,with my children. I wish that I
had known all of this back whenI was raising children. But, you
know, right to lead a horse towillingness. And I it's a
practice, just like meditation.
It's it's a practice. And thenonce you like riding a bike,
once you how to ride a bike, younever forget you could not be on
a bike for 20 years because it'sabout y'all right, and so it's

(50:41):
the same with the horses. Onceyou learn this and you embody
this practice, it then becomesso effortless when you're with
the horse. But it takespractice. And I think we come
from a society of such quickresults, and people want that,
like, just give me the steps.
Let me do it. Let me get itdone, you know,

(51:03):
and with good horsemanship, youknow, top tier horsemanship is
what this method builds. And youcan't do it that way. You know,
you have to learn to stay insoft deal and listen to your
intuition

Lynn (51:19):
and even though you are letting go of your agenda,
you're much more likely toaccomplish more this way.

Nan (51:28):
Absolutely. And isn't that true with everything? Probably,
especially what you're teaching,right it? We need an agenda. We
need like, we go out and we say,Okay, today I'm going to so
let's just say, a student in ourclass, we're going to practice
this exercise. Well, when youget out there and you see that,
just because you study thatexercise and you want to
practice it, it is not going tohappen. You have to be able to

(51:51):
shift right and go back intowhat would bring the most
connection. What's you know?
What do you feel in the momentyou could do that's what Carolyn
calls the entry point ofconnection. What can you do that
would bring connection in themoment? It might just be go back
and sit in your chair and getout of your head and write down
your monkey mind in yourjournal, you know? But if we

(52:12):
really do the practice likeanything, I think that the
results are amazing.

Lynn (52:22):
Well, you know, I'm just thinking of a specific example
right now, when you talked aboutsending people out to go do
something, and what you picturedisn't going to be the thing that
creates connection. And in mycorporate world, you know, we,
we call it a vision. I call it apicture now, because I think
pictures a little moredescriptive, but we you know,

(52:44):
the leaders often feel likethey're responsible to create
the vision and to tell peoplehow to do the vision, and that's
a lot of burden to carry as aleader, but it's also completely
abjectly impossible, becauseonce people go out in the field,
they have to find out all thethings the leader doesn't know

(53:05):
right now. And things areconstantly moving. You know,
horses shift and it you know,like you said, there's five
entry points of connection, not12345,
it could be any one of them atany given moment, and it's the
same, you know, out in thefield. You know, when you're
sending people out to dowhatever the vision might be,

(53:27):
we're going to change to thisnew software. We're going to
we're buying this new company.
We're transforming to, you know,not, not die like Kodak did,
whatever that vision might be.
But what I love is, if you letthe horse tell you in your
method, or if you let the peopletell you who had their feet on
the ground how to do the vision,then you're in partnership and

(53:48):
harmony, because you each have arole,
absolutely. But if it's one way,then you just got a bunch of
people trying to be robots andtrying to be perfect, and then,
frankly, they start beatingthemselves up because I can't
figure out how to do it. And Idon't think there's anything
noisier in our heads thanbeating ourselves up exactly,
and that's one of the biggestthings. That's why we have a big

(54:09):
mindset piece, you know, we have

Nan (54:13):
a coach who actually coaches our students once a
month in that we call it theauthentic self coaching meeting,
you know, because we tend to dothat, we'll we'll go out, and
things won't work. So we beatourselves up. We say we're not
good enough. Our horse doesn'tlike us. You know, we'll never
do this. And you know, that's alot of the work is just finding

(54:35):
that one little thing that youcan do and being able to
accomplish that. It's huge for alot of people, and it takes us
back to presence, right? Andthere's pressure, like you don't
have to do anything with yourhorse. That's another thing, I
think, in the horse world, youknow, people are starting the
awareness is becoming so, sogrand. And I think people are

(54:57):
starting to realize that theydon't have.
To do anything with theirhorses, they can enjoy that
relationship just like they dowith their dog. And this work
that they do and that I teach isabout working with a horse like
you would a dog, and treatingthis animal like a family

(55:17):
member, and if you live yourhorse like you lived with your
dog. Your horse would be likeyour dog. That's the power of
sharing territory, and why? WhenI sat with Pericles for those
six weeks, he ended up being mybest friend. He followed me
everywhere. He wanted to be withme all the time because I spent
so much time with him, you know?
And so, yeah, I didn't haveanything else to do during

(55:41):
COVID, right? Like everythingwas kind of shut down, so I
spent almost every hour of everyday down there with him. And so
yeah, and that's what we need todo to build all relationships,
right, spending time with oneanother and listening and being
present

Lynn (55:59):
and being present well.
And you know, back to kind ofwhere we were talking, you know
about the disasters that youturned into gold mines, from the
hurricane and from COVID,getting you stuck, and then
being present to what is andmaking your choices, rather than
diving into the resentment ofit, or the trying to, like, make

(56:20):
the impossible happen when it'sshowing you it isn't going to
happen anymore.

Nan (56:29):
Yes, yeah, that was interesting, because I remember
when it first happened, I justkind of looked at my husband and
was like, You have got to bekidding. And I panicked for a
minute, because, you know, Ihave seven horses a farm here,
we have beautiful caretakers whowe couldn't live without. But,
you know, we ended up being gonealmost a year, and we that
reason for that was again,because we ended up in Santa

(56:53):
Cruz, and it ended up being asafe haven, and we didn't know
what was happening here,but I so I was in my head about
it at first, and then I justthought back about Synchro,
Destiny. What is the trying totell me? What is the moment?
What is the path that I need totake now? And it was, I was
quickly, due to this work, ableto go out of the panic and back

(57:17):
into okay. I'm just going tofocus on, what can I do today?
And what can I, you know, tolive today? And it really helped
us through that.

Lynn (57:33):
It's kind of difficult time. I mean, you know, oh yeah,
it, and it was, looking back onit, we had the best of
everything going for us there,but it was still there was some
worry in it, right? Well, there,the thing is, you can't help but
have some worry. That's life.
And you know, when your nervoussystem gets triggered, just like
a horse, like they worry, right?

(57:55):
You know, we watched the otherday, I was working with the
Mustang that's been the slowest,he's coming around a lot, but
his he was the most frightenedbecause he spent a lot of time
in holding, and we're prettysure that his experience in
holding was worse than mosthorses, so for whatever reasons.
And so as as he noticed amotorcycle go by on the road, I

(58:19):
could see that he was worried,and I just looked at the
motorcycle with him and said,Yeah, I see that you're worried,
but see we're fine. And he cameback to me, but horse is
worried, like we do. And in thatmoment, we addressed it, and
then he came right back. And,you know, so you addressed it
each day, and I you said thisword a couple of times, and I'm,
I'm really interested to hearyou riff a little bit on tell me

(58:41):
about Synchro destiny, becausethat's not a term I think is
very common and that I've heardvery often.

Nan (58:48):
Yeah, well, I don't know. I guess it was about 10 years ago
my sister in law, who is anamazing woman and has studied
many, many things, she sharedwith z and I about this course
she was taking with DeepakChopra, and it was called the
spontaneous fulfillment ofdesire, and it teaches about

(59:09):
Synchro destiny, and how, if webecome present and aware of
every moment of our lives, webegin to be able to see the
miracle in The coincidences. Sowhen I say, and I didn't mention
coincidences before, but therewas no coincidence in the fact
that that hurricane hit andeverything just kept every door

(59:30):
kept closing, and that, youknow, I wasn't aware of this
stuff back then, so myleft brain stuff, and I, you
know, business stuff kept going.
I gotta get back in business. Igotta make money. I gotta I
can't other route, like, I'venever been unsuccessful. I'm not
going to go live in Costa Rica,broke, you know, like how and

(59:51):
and I didn't know this. So whenI finally learned about it, and
I was doing that course, Istarted to see every
coincidence.
Confidence as a miracle, andthen you start to see things
that way. Your life justcompletely shifts. And you know,
every time you start to thinkabout it, when you say, well,
that's a coincidence. No, it'snot a coincidence at all. It's a

(01:00:14):
miracle. And so far since then,since I learned about this,
there's never been anything thatwas a coincidence that I
couldn't find the miracle inthat was going to guide me to
where I was supposed to be. Sothere was no coincidence in that
hurricane. There was nocoincidence that I found those
rescued horses. I wasn't lookingfor them. I rescued them to save

(01:00:35):
them because I happened uponthem. There's no coincidence I
picked up Carolyn's book. Youknow, there was no coincidence
that I got locked down with herand I, during COVID, happened to
be there, because it reallyelevated my education in this
method, to be able to take thework to a different level. And

(01:00:56):
no coincidence that I got thewildfires locked me down, up at
where work was at all others.
You know, we can look at thoseas miracles, or we could go,
God, everywhere I go, there's anatural disaster at first.
There's a hurricane. Now,there's COVID Now there's a
wildfire. You know, this everysingle moment, even here in
Costa Rica, the very firstclinic I was ever going to host,

(01:01:17):
before I was even doing thismethod, or even met Carolyn. I
had planned to do these retreatsand clinics to be able to make
money to take care of theserescued horses as a side thing
on top of my property managementcompany. And the very first one
I put together, there was awoman coming to teach here, a
trainer. And there was an earthan earthquake here, and I didn't

(01:01:40):
have an arena yet or anything. Ijust had pasture land for for
the horses, but a friend of ourshad this beautiful stable and
Arena in the village, and hesaid, you can use it. So I said,
that's great. So about fourmonths went by after the earth
earthquake, and I asked thistrainer. I said, What is the

(01:02:02):
most important thing to the tomake this clinic successful? For
you? What? What do I need to doto make it successful? And I had
never hosted a clinic. She said,my footing is extremely
important. So I go, Oh, okay. SoI went over to this beautiful
stable property. All I had was astable in an arena, and it was
this most beautiful green grassin the arena. They didn't use it

(01:02:25):
as a like a sand arena. And Ithought, oh, it's gorgeous. I
started walking it. There werelike two foot poles in it from
the earthquake. There areearthquake up there in the
village. It didn't hit where Iam, where my house is, and it's
very close distance. But I waslike, Oh my gosh, I can't have
that clinic here. This arena isfull of holes. It just looked
pretty because the grass waseven, and immediately we had to

(01:02:47):
come and make and makeshiftarena up here. Now I had, like,
two weeks to go, or I had tocancel the clinic. So Z said,
get some bamboo and we'll go getit out of the jungle and we'll
build a temporary arena. And ifI had not done that and that
miracle slash coincidence hadnot happened, I would have not

(01:03:10):
been able to be up here on myproperty with an arena going.
People came and they were like,blown away. Like, this is the
most amazing thing I've everseen. And it inspired me then to
start doing more clinics. Andthen I met Carolyn. So, you
know, every little thing that welook at as something that, oh
gosh, like this is a disaster.

(01:03:32):
Where can we find the miracle init? And

Lynn (01:03:37):
I'm laughing, because through the storm that we just
came through. There was about 10days where everything was really
uncertain, and I had regularlittle miracles and
coincidences, like one day andthis one was probably this is
the most meaningful, because itwas so out of character for me.

(01:03:59):
But this is the hurricane hit onFriday and on Sunday, Jennifer
and I were going out in the old,battered truck because the roads
were, you know, not good. Treeswere down, wires were down, you
know. So we were taking thetruck out to try to find a
signal to get in touch withpeople, and also maybe to get

(01:04:22):
some supplies, you know, and seewhere we were, what was open.
We had food, but we just wantedto know what where we could go.
So I needed my billfold in myphone. Well, guess what? I left
my house without my billfold andmy phone.
And as we got up to the top ofthe road, I just, I had to laugh
at it. I said, I don't know howJen, but I don't have my

(01:04:42):
billfold or my phone. We have togo back home. So she turned
around and we went back home.
And then when I walked back upthe stairs after getting those
two things, there was a car onmy street, which was really
unusual. By this time, wefigured out nobody needs to be
here, and I kind of got myhackles on.
A little bit until I realized itwas our friend coming to find

(01:05:02):
us. They had flooded, andcouldn't get a hold of us, and
they didn't know what was goingon with us, and we couldn't get
to that. We weren't even worriedabout them, because we didn't
realize they were flooding, youknow, we didn't think they were
in a place that would flood. Soif I hadn't forgotten those
things, I wouldn't have run intohim?
Yeah, we would have passed eachother, and then later on that

(01:05:25):
very same outing they wereclosing down the road, but we
didn't know they were going toclose it, and if we had been one
minute sooner and gotten pastthis roadblock where they had
decided to basically not letanybody back into town where we
had left our dog in a crate,we would have gotten out and not
been able to get back to my dog.

(01:05:48):
And again, I was, I was, like,so upset that they wouldn't let
me through until I figured thatout. And so these little things
that were quote, unquote badthings. I had hundreds of those
things that came out. Okay, yep,but it's how you see it

Nan (01:06:04):
Yes, and it's a goes back to listening to our gut
instinct, our intuition, andwhen you see that forgetting
your phone was an absolutemiracle, you shift that one
thing that you just talked aboutit out loud, is a shift in our
consciousness that can createmore and more and more miracles
until everything is just amiracle. Yeah, you know, it's,

(01:06:27):
it's really, it goes right backto intuitiveness and listening
to ourselves, right? So Well,listening to our true selves,
not to the voices, yes, that wehave created, that we think are
somebody else that arejudgmental and telling us we're
we're doing it all wrong. Thosevoices aren't useful.

(01:06:51):
Oh, absolutely, it's true. Yeah,yeah. The work is to discover
the true signals from thatnoise, absolutely and in that
you have Synchro destiny. It'swhere everything gets
synchronized. Your Destinybecomes clear. You can see, you
know,you can see the light like all

(01:07:15):
of a sudden, you just getclarity behind so many more
things, because the energeticpull of universe always giving
us information, right? But wetend to go outside of it into
our, you know, left brainthinking side of everything, to
figure it out. But if we can getquiet enough and be a noticer,
that's when we can see themiracles.

Lynn (01:07:40):
So when I would imagine that you have experienced people
getting pretty stuck at timeswhen they're first trying to
work with this way of being, ifthey're not used to living from
this field place, from beingable to listen to their
intuition, do you have some waysthat help them get in touch

(01:08:04):
fairly quickly? Because I knowfor me, it's been a lifetime
journey, and it would have beenworse than watching paint dry
trying to see me get through allmy crap. So I'm just curious.
I was I'm curious, how you helppeople who might be just coming
into this way of being, getthere in a,

(01:08:25):
you know, a little faster. I'mnot trying to hurry things
along, but because things dohappen in their time. But what,
what have you found that works?

Nan (01:08:32):
Yeah, well, the whole program that Carolyn put
together is for that purpose,the sharing territory portion of
the program and the work thatthat that we do in sitting in
the chair, reading, meditatingand journaling is what can
really help us. And Carolynalways says, like, when we're
coaching people and they'refocused on the exercises, she'll

(01:08:53):
say, How much time have youspent sharing territory with
your horse this week? And italways goes back to that. And
normally, when people come to usand they're having so called
trouble problems, they'refocused on the problem. So I
usually try to to share withpeople. We do not try to fix
problems in this method. We goback to what works. We try to,

(01:09:16):
if you, if you come across that,and you write it down. We know
journaling is a powerful tool. Alot of people don't like to do
it. So I think that the peoplethat are struggling in this work
don't want to do that work. Theywant to get they're doing
actionable things with thehorse. You know, that was me,
believe right? Me too, at onetime for sure. You know, when

(01:09:39):
you say, I doing less is more.
It is 100%with horses short increments.
Just do short increments oftraining, so called training,
right? Working with theseexercises. And when you get a
successful moment, you stop, youknow, yes, ma'am,
information, like you go out andyou're, you know.

(01:10:00):
Know, feeling Constantine. Andthen you're like, I don't really
know you know what to do. Andyou sit down and you really
journal about it, you will find,if you look back in your
journals, you'll find that thosethings were blocking you from
being able to connect to thecourse. So putting them down on
paper is kind of like, you know,you you had an argument, let's
say, with your husband or afriend, or something happens,

(01:10:21):
and you brush it off to getthrough it, and you go out to
the horse, and you think thatyou're present, because you're
going to be present, but it's inyou. But if you upload it on the
paper, it's still there. You gotit, but it's out of your head,
you know? So you just write, wecall it monkey mind, you know.
You write all the monkey minduntil you can't write anymore.

(01:10:42):
And then you write, how wouldyou like it to be, if all of
that stuff wasn't there? Howwould you like it to be? And you
focus on that, I would like tojust be out here on a beautiful
day, being able to be presentquickly. You know, I would like
to be able to connect to myhorse, or for my horse to be
able to to understand what I'masking and you write all these

(01:11:02):
things, it's visual, right? Andso you're starting to now
reprogram your brain intothinking about how you would
like it to be, instead of all ofthe problems that you see that
are coming up for you. It'sreally powerful work, but it's
important that that people do itwell, and it's very

(01:11:23):
underestimated, what adifference it is what we focus
on. Because if we focus on thelack, we get more of that. And
if we focus on what we wouldlike to have, or what we already
have, gratitude, for example,for that we get more of that
whatever we focus on is what weget. And there's science to

(01:11:47):
prove that even even whentheoretically, you've

Lynn (01:11:52):
there's no difference other than the the belief around
whether something's good for youor not.

Nan (01:11:57):
Absolutely. You know, what we focus on becomes our reality.
Again, go back to the universallaw of energy, right? Science,
that proves it. You know, whatwe focus on becomes our reality.
And so many people are teachingthis now, I just feel like we
have so many resources that wedidn't used to have for to live
that in this reality, right?

(01:12:20):
So yeah, and that is also a bigpart of Synchro destiny, being
able to focus on the miracle tocreate a reality that we that we
want in our lives. And as wewere starting this conversation,
you were talking about how muchgratitude you have,

Lynn (01:12:38):
I feel like, if there are any two superpowers
in working with people withhorses and just life, it's
probably gratitude andcuriosity.
I agree. That's great gratitudeand curiosity. Yeah. I mean,
that's a powerful pair. I likedthings to be in threes, but so I
have, I don't have anything inmy mind right now about what the

(01:12:59):
third might be, although I mightsay it's courage. If I had to
have another one, it wouldprobably be courage. And I like
that. I think that, I think,yeah, because having the courage
for to be open to change

Nan (01:13:15):
is the biggest thing, like one of the things that my nephew
said to me, actually, rightafter that COVID thing, he said,
You know, I just admire you somuch. You have so much courage.
You just have, you prayed to goon the adventure. And I thought
about it a little, and I waslike, you know, I guess, yeah, I
I do have. It doesn't mean Idon't have fear, you know. But

(01:13:38):
if we can't, if we have toolsthat we can get out of that fear
based thinking, you know, andfind the courage within us to be
able to focus on a differentreality, find the miracle in it.
I think it's just so it's afluent way of living,

Lynn (01:13:54):
yes, and you know, a lot of people come to me and ask for
me to help them with theirconfidence. And what I say is,
that's a rear view mirror thing.
Confidence happens when you haveexercised courage.
I love that. So courage is, isthe is more at the root. And, of
course, the root of the wordcourage is heart. And you know,

(01:14:17):
being able to, I feel likeoperating from feel, operating
through intuition, is a heartbased
way to be, as opposed to a brainbased way to be.
Absolutely not that there'sanything wrong with our brain,

Nan (01:14:34):
but the heart is oftentimes the source of the wisdom, yeah,
and I think that it's importantfor people to understand, like,
this all doesn't happenovernight, like you me, like
we've worked a lot on it, likeit comes from the practice,
right? So if we're notconfident, we kind of do need a

(01:14:55):
math we need a coach. We needsomeone to be able to walk us
through the steps.
Beginning, but still payattention to what it makes. What
does it feel like in our ourworld, you know, but I think
that you're right. I think thathaving confidence is also from
learning how,because maybe people don't feel

(01:15:16):
confident when they go out withhorses. I have a student who is
very confident in the saddle andnot confident at all on the
ground, at Liberty, and I foundthat really interesting, because
I would have more fear of beingin the saddle and having
something happen than on theground, right? So everybody's
you know, view of it is, isdifferent, right? So that is

(01:15:38):
interesting, yeah, and then youhave to find the courage to
figure out, like, how are yougoing to get over that obstacle?
And find the confidence to beable to
feel safe and not be in a fearbased mentality?

Lynn (01:15:55):
Yeah? Because that, especially if you can't get
through it, that can be quitedetrimental.

Nan (01:16:02):
Yeah. These are the tools, the things that you're teaching,
the things that you know Carolynhas put together for us, that I
teach is they're tools to beable to learn a different way.
Because when we've, you know,are at our age now, you know,
we've been kind of doctrinatedinto this other way of being.
It's kind of hard to make theshift without help. And I think

(01:16:26):
that with horses, it reallycomes out because, you know,
like I said, now, people arestarting to there's so much
awareness about giving horses abetter deal and how we can do
that, but there didn't used tobe. So all the women that I meet
that are anywhere from 40 to 70,they learned a different way.
The young people today have somuch more information about this

(01:16:49):
to be able to start with horsesdifferently. You know that it's
really beautiful, and I'm happyabout that.

Lynn (01:16:57):
You know, it's funny using that language give the horses a
better deal because we youmentioned that we both met
through Warwick Schiller, andwe're both on his podcast. And
spoke at his podcast summit lastyear. One of his guests, I
believe, was Ty Murray, who is arodeo guy, yeah, and I remember
he was the first person. I thinkI heard him use that exact

(01:17:21):
sentence, I'm just trying togive the horses a better deal
after having seen where theywere not given a better deal.
And you know, so I love it doesfeel like it's a bit of a
movement tohelp the horses help themselves
in this world that we live in,but also it's hard for us to do

(01:17:42):
because there is a conditioningin this world, as we've alluded
to, that gets us stuck. If wedon't have a coach, as you
mentioned, if we don't have away to see something else, it's
almost like we can't see our wayout of it.

Nan (01:17:59):
Yeah, and there's, it's almost like there's too much
information. Now, it's kind oflike people, when they call us
about, you know, wanting to knowmore about this way working with
horses, it's like they don'teven know there's so much out
there. Now, with social media,they don't know which is the
right thing. Everybody'steaching something. But, you
know, I I have to give like, Ialmost want to say all the

(01:18:20):
credit to Carolyn from shepioneered this. I mean, she
started this way, way, way back,right, and before, and people
thought she was crazy. Iremember when she put together
this program called the chairchallenge that we have, people
were like, people can thinkyou're nuts, like sitting in a
chair, and everybody's sittingin chairs with horses now, you
know,call her the mother of liberty

(01:18:41):
because she really brought adifferent way of being with
horses to the world. And I lovethat so many people are sharing
that work. Rick shares that nowin his work. And you know, so
many other trainers are bringingthis into their training
programs, even though they'renot doing exactly what we're
doing, but it inevitably isgiving horses a better deal, for

(01:19:04):
sure. Yeah, and, and we have todo it in our, you know, in a
safe way too. That's the thing,you know. Where we start,
especially at the rescue, withjoy, at rain rescue. And when
people want to come and work, westart with safety, safety,
safety, because there are somany unconscious things that we
can do, not being aware thatwe've just put ourselves in

(01:19:27):
danger. And even the most docilehorse can, you know, hurt you
accidentally or on purpose, youknow, step on your foot. Go to
the hospital,

Lynn (01:19:39):
you know, so just learning how to be there and be conscious
and be aware, I think, is alsojust so important and respecting
them for who they are and whatthey you know, the power they
bring. I think that's actuallywhat makes writing both so
thrilling and sometimes scary,is when you actually feel the
power when you're on them. Of.

Nan (01:20:00):
I'm carrying those forward.
Oh my gosh, horsepower is a realthing. It's already that came to
be for a reason. Horsepower onengines, right? Yeah, yeah. I
think keeping people safe is isthe biggest challenge,
especially when we're distancecoaching, like in our master
class, with distance coaching,so we focus a lot on, you know,
people being able to move theirhorse and being able to keep

(01:20:21):
their their their boundaries,you know, around it. And I think
that that's another thing thatcoincides with like leadership
and just well being, is beingable to set boundaries
for people and so they can gethurt that way, but not just with
with horses in life. And I thinkthat's one of the beautiful

(01:20:43):
things that we teach in ourleadership with through the
method, is setting flexibleboundaries, you know, and being
able to be flexible in that,which is what makes a great
leader. Well, you you're one ofthe language things that you
mentioned was putting the gaspedal on the horse, in other
words, being able to move himand going,

Lynn (01:21:01):
that's one of the biggest safety things we've had, and
it's actually one of thegreatest connectors. It's
amazing how much more they wantto connect.

Nan (01:21:10):
Ironically, so it's so interesting. You know, when I
first started teaching thiswork, I remember, you know,
people, so many more people,were feeling devastated to ask
their horses to leave theirspace, and it was so
interesting. Still happens, butyou know, not as is. I don't
notice it as much becausethere's more awareness around

(01:21:33):
it. But when you said that, itbrings more connection, it does
bring more connection becauseyou're tapping into the horse's
natural instincts to move. It'snot normal for a horse to not
move, but in traditionaltraining, people are taught to
keep the horse close. The horseis on a 12 foot rope or the they
want connection, so their horsestarts to become pushy, right

(01:21:54):
and take over leadership whilethey're close to the person, and
because the person feels like weuse our human emotions in a
horse world and, and thatdoesn't work. So with humans, we
want connection. We don't wantto I would never say to you, I
need you to go, you know. Butwith horses, they go, Oh, thank
God there's a leader, yes. And Iget to go well and, and we may

(01:22:18):
not say I need you to go in thatway. But you know, I one of the
biggest breakthroughs in mycorporate career. I will never
forget this. I was,

Lynn (01:22:29):
I was working with a boss two levels up for me,
negotiating something around howwe were running the training
program that I was runningcredit training and helping send
training students out into hisorganization. And I don't even
remember what we werenegotiating, but he was fighting
it, and what he was what he wasfighting, we had already

(01:22:50):
decided. So I what, you know, Iwas, like, sort of puzzled, and
it was, it was a lot like apushy horse, you know, he was up
in my space and saying, This isthe way it's going to work. And
it just wasn't going to workthat way. And I will never
forget, because there was thismoment where I said his name and
I said, and I said, we're goingto do this, this and this,

(01:23:10):
that's how it's going to be. Andhe goes, Oh, okay, great.
Bucha. Horse was so cool. Yeah,I mean, I kid you not, he after
that, had we were so much closerthan we had been before, before
that, I think he just pushed aslong as he could. But when I

(01:23:31):
basically said, this is the wayit's going to work, he and and
gave him that clear boundary,everything became okay. And my
fear until that moment was thatwas going to be the end of my
career. Yeah, and unless we havedone our own personal work to
understand those boundaries andunderstand that actually creates

(01:23:52):
connection, as opposed to breaksconnection that I I don't feel
like we can be truly safe withhorses, because no, and you have
to do it. You handled it withthat guy, you know? Well, I can
handle it. And what I had toown, and what I've had to own
over and over again was my fearwas that I was going to do to

(01:24:18):
him what had been done to me,sure, and that is absolutely not
the case, because somehow Idropped into the space where he
told me how strong I had to be.
He was the, actually, the oneguiding that the reason I had to
be that firm, because he wasn'tgoing to hear it if it wasn't

(01:24:38):
clear.
And then I then, if that's thecase, it can't be wrong, right?
It can't be disconnecting. Andit was just amazing. I I will
never forget it, and it took mea long time to make sense of it,
especially the part where I wasafraid of my own.

(01:25:00):
My own fear about being a way Itell myself I would never be,
which put me at a tremendousdisadvantage, because it made me
softer than I needed to be. Itmade me a pushover,

Nan (01:25:13):
absolutely. Yeah, I think there's a lot of correlation to
that with the horses. You know?
It's like when you're sitting ina chair and you have a shy
horse, you know you wouldn'thave to be as strong to ask the
horse to give you some space asyou might want a more Bucha
dominant horse. And I think it'sabout finding the the balance in
that. And you know, when I talkabout why, you know, moving a

(01:25:36):
horse and why it brings so muchconnection? It is because horses
are born with the NaturalInstincts right to move away
from coming toward them and tofollow anything leaving them.
That's how they stay together inmagnetic connection. And when we
tap into that with a horse, notonly does it demonstrate our
leadership and set boundariesand bring the horse a sense of

(01:26:00):
peace, that they haveleadership, but it taps them
into their their naturalinstincts to move, and they
understand that language, thatcommunication, I think, with
women, especially in in thiswork, it's harder, because, you
know, we all have trauma, and weall have things that have
happened To us, and, you know,with a particular person who

(01:26:21):
might have never felt like theyfit in, or they've always been
pushed away, or, you know, thatcould be a really uncomfortable
thing to do with a horse,because it triggers their
emotion, you know, and theresponse to that. But when we
can look at it and say, Okay,this is different, how we speak
the language of horse isdifferent than how we do with

(01:26:42):
humans. It's isn't it? Isn't Imean, it's one of the same in a
lot of ways. But I think thatthat's the beauty of that's the
moment that the horse goes,Okay, she speaks my language.
You know? It is the moment. Youknow what it's done for me.

Lynn (01:27:01):
When you mentioned being triggered, because there's no
question. That's what happens,and that's all of us.
Ironically. You know, theneurology is that once something
is fired, twice it wires. And sowhen you in the moment,
even though triggered do itdifferently, you create a new

(01:27:26):
neural pathway. Yes, and that'swhat this work has done for me.
And it's not necessary to toliterally go there's a lot of
ways to create new neuralpathways to but, but this is one
of the most profound, becauseyou're doing it live in real
time.

Nan (01:27:46):
Yes, and I saw the way you were able to move horses, there
was absolutely no there was somuch clarity when I watched you
work with horses. You are, youknow you're not. You're not a
huge person, but you do know howto create huge energy to move a
horse, if that's what they'reasking for to be moved. Because
we had a couple at our workshoptogether. We had one horse that

(01:28:09):
just wasn't going to move. Youhad to come in and help me,
because I couldn't get him tomove. And you did, yeah, and I
think that's where the practicecomes in, when we can learn to
embody the energy that we need.
It doesn't have to be aggressiveit. That's where you come up
with that saying, if we canremember it, but it's kind of
like it doesn't have to beaggressive, and it comes from
within us first, and then we canbring in an aid, like a Liberty

(01:28:30):
stick or something if we needit. But I think it's that
internal energy, if we canproject that with confidence and
intention and direct the horseto do what we want them to do
with clarity. I think that allof those little puzzle pieces
fit together. And I think peoplein general just don't, you know.

(01:28:54):
I think that not only this workbrings well being to horses, it
obviously brings well being tohumans too. Because once you're
able to do this work with ahorse, you start to gain a lot
of confidence and communicationskills that you take into your
everyday life. And I think thatmight be what you were saying,
you know, like even in thatinstance, with that, that person

(01:29:15):
you were dealing with, you know,it's kind of like firm, clear
and intentional. I'm not doingthis to start a fight. I'm not
going to get angry, I'm justgoing to come back. This is how
it's going to be, with clarity,and there isn't really any
discussing it. And if you don'tdo that with a horse, the horse
is going to push you around forthe rest of your life. He needs

(01:29:35):
that leadership. Yes,

Lynn (01:29:38):
that's a beautiful thing for people to remember is, I do
think clarity is kindness.
That's a different saying thanwhat I was saying. But I do too.
I what I'm what I'm feeling thatcould be in people's minds right
now is, well, they're going towant to come do a workshop with
you so they can learn some ofthese things. Yeah, and.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#79 Nancy Zintsmaster: The Power of Presence and Authenticity

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

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#79 Nancy Zintsmaster: The Power of Presence and Authenticity

On Purpose with Jay Shetty