May 9, 2025 • 29 mins
This episode includes Dancing the Tightrope Chapters Fourteen Commitment and Fifteen Curiosity. These are the first two of five chapters in the book outlining the building blocks of self-awareness. If you have listened this far, you have certainly heard me talk about the value of these inner “tools.”
I decided to highlight the five building blocks of self-awareness at this stage of my story, because I found myself not always showing up in pressure situations the way I would have liked to. It was clear to me that sometimes I could reach for my tools, and other times I had to reach for my rules. Awareness was the difference, but there was something more. For several weeks, I became more and more aware of my awareness.
It was through this focused attention that I began to see that I “fell off” at different points. Sometimes it was at the level of being committed. Sometimes it was lack of curiosity, or one of the other three layers, which I dive into in the chapters to follow. I revisit the lessons in these five chapters over and again, because they help me fine tune my awareness when I get off track – and the nature of the game is not being perfect all the time. It’s about having lots of ways of getting back on track.
Speaking of curiosity, this podcast was created because of my budding curiosity to have a different kind of conversation, and you will hear about one of my early podcast guests Warwick Schiller, who has also been on a journey of self-discovery. Chapter fifteen has a special surprise in it.
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Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Lynn, Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life and now here's
your host. Lynn Carnes,
Lynn (00:19):
welcome to the creative spirits. Unleash Podcast. I'm
Len Carnes, your host. Thisepisode includes dancing the
tightrope. Chapter 14,commitment and chapter 15,
curiosity. These are the firstof two chapters in the book
outlining the building blocks ofself awareness. If you've
listened this far, you'vecertainly heard me talk about
(00:40):
the value of these inner tools,both commitment and curiosity, I
decided to highlight the fivebuilding blocks of self
awareness at this stage in mystory, because I found myself
not always showing up inpressure situations the way I
would have liked to, it wasclear to me that sometimes I
could reach for my tools, andother times I had to reach for
my rules. Awareness was thedifference, but there was
(01:04):
something more. For severalweeks, I became more and more
aware of my awareness. It wasthrough this focused attention
that I began to see that I felloff at different points of the
five building blocks of selfawareness. Sometimes it was at
the level of being committed.
Sometimes it was lack ofcuriosity, or one of the other
three layers, which I dive intoin the chapters to follow. I
(01:27):
revisit the lessons in thesechapters over and over again
now, because they help me finetune my awareness when I get off
track. And the nature of thegame is not being perfect all
the time. It's about having lotsof ways to get back on track.
Speaking of curiosity, by theway, this podcast was created
(01:47):
because of my budding curiosityto have different kinds of
conversations. And you will hearabout one of my early podcast
guests, Warwick Schiller, whohas been on his own journey of
self discovery. He's mentionedin chapter 15, which has a
special surprise in it. Asalways, I hope you enjoy this
episode of creative spiritsunleashed. And if you like it,
(02:09):
please be sure to share it withyour friends, your colleagues,
others that you think might beinterested and help me get the
word out. Because this is atough game guys getting the word
out. There's a lot ofcompetition out there, and the
more you share it, the more ithelps. Thank you so much for
listening, and I hope you enjoythis podcast. Chapter 14,
commitment a source of energy.
(02:36):
Commitment provides anintangible, but very real source
of energy to get something donein context of a self awareness
journey, we have to first committo learning things we have kept
hidden, either intentionally orunintentionally. How willing Am
I to understand more about myinner self? How willing Am I to
understand my impact on others,as with so many factors we can
(03:00):
either under commit or overcommit. In many companies, I've
seen under commitment in theform of compliance. People are
obediently doing their jobs, butwithout the vitalizing energy
that shows they care. Sometimeswe can get over committed.
Usually it happens when we aregiving more than the company is
giving back in return. As withanything else, there's a
balancing act with commitment.
In my deep dive of learningdifferent philosophies of horse
(03:24):
training, I saw some trainerswho focused almost exclusively
on compliance, and others ongaining trust, to the exclusion
of asking anything from thehorse at all. Both ways are out
of balance. Horse woman LeeMcLean says, imagine an old
fashioned scale in the balancewill hang discipline on the
other side, that intangiblething I call feel. If this was
(03:46):
your scale, which side wouldoutweigh the other? Most of us,
if we are honest, struggle withbalancing the two based on our
inherent personality traits,along with who has mentored us.
We will embrace the one mindsetwhile struggling with its
opposing view. Those of us whoexpect obedience seldom have our
horses flat out say no, nor dothey ever behave badly. We
(04:09):
usually feel safe in the saddle,but we can miss out on a lot of
the good stuff by enforcingrules and concentrating on
precision. We sometimes lose ourability to give at just the
right moments. Our riding canhave a taking quality while our
horses lose their natural flow.
We're big on rules. Those of uswho are all about the connection
(04:32):
with our mouths can have theopposite problems in our quest
for giving and feel we may notsend our horses enough
leadership. Sometimes our horsescan be unreliable or
inconsistent without firmboundaries. We may value the
concept of peace and harmonyabove working through the
underlying problems or times ofdiscord. We're all about the
love. Often our horsemanshipmirrors our human relationships.
(04:56):
For most of us, the challengecomes in trying to find a
balance. But. Between those twoextremes, basic safety demands
that my horses go in adisciplined manner, but the joy
in my horsemanship comes fromdeveloping the soft feel. I
don't necessarily think that oneis any better or any worse than
the other, for when we live andbelieve in only one approach,
(05:17):
our horses will never rise to betheir best, nor will we many
days before I swing a leg overI'll stop and breathe. This is
my mantra, especially on thosedays when I'm fierce and more
like or days when I'm feelingfrail, and used love and rules,
love and rules. Love and rules,trademarked and used with
(05:37):
permission from Lee McLean,author, horse woman of Keystone
equine, Alberta, Canada. Back tothe book McLean directs our
attention to the balancing actof the tightrope. Yes, we need
to provide safety for the horse.
We also need boundaries. We mustbe be prepared to deal with a
large animal should he decide heis the one in control and he has
nothing to fear from us. Thesame is true in leadership, all
(06:01):
too often, we seek quote,unquote, obedience from those we
serve, not recognizing thatcompliance comes with its own
costs. On the other hand, I'veseen leaders become doormats. I
was one of them when we becomeso busy focusing on safety that
we forget the dangers of havingno boundaries. Leadership is a
constant game of give and take,as we ask people to rise to
(06:24):
their greatness while at thesame time controlling the heat
so they stay in the froth andbelow their pressure threshold,
too much fear and too much help.
On one of my visits to Bruce, Iwent into the round pen with
Mac, a horse who is quitecommitted to being close to
humans. He's a small horse whocan tend to act like the
(06:46):
annoying little brotherconstantly poking his nose into
my space. It was Mac in theround pen when the big tree fell
the year before, and Mac whocame running at me full speed,
hoping to jump into my lap forsafety. Bruce has a very useful
technique to keep a horse out ofa human space, jumping jacks.
The beauty of doing jumpingjacks is that the energy created
(07:08):
by the movement raises thehorse's negative pole, creating
a bunch of energy with jumpingjacks allows him to build his
mental tools by making the rightthing easy and the wrong thing
hard. On that day, when Mattcame running, I did those
jumping jacks like my lifedepended on them, and he chose
to stop and figure out how toself regulate. On this day,
(07:29):
Bruce was sitting in his usualspot outside the round pen, and
I was just inside the fence aswe were planning our session.
Mac was free to graze or walkaround or stand next to us. He
chose to crowd me, thankfullyfor the sake of a lesson.
Anyway, I forgot one of my mostpowerful tools as we were
(07:50):
speaking, Bruce ignored myfailed attempts to keep Mac from
pushing into me. First I wouldstep back or step aside, that
only emboldened the needy littlehorse. Then I would wave my arm
like I was waving off a fly.
That worked for a millisecond,then he would be back, pushing
in, threatening to get nippy. Inthe meantime, I kept trying to
(08:10):
keep up the conversation withBruce. I was like the little man
in the Wizard of Oz franticallymoving the levers while yelling.
Pay no attention to the womanflailing and failing to move the
horse away. Now that Bruce had aclear picture of where my
pressure threshold was, he askedme, why are you not raising his
Polo? Why are you not choosingto do jumping jacks? Is he not
(08:30):
telling you how much pressure toapply be the conduit? Oh, yeah,
I had a better way. JumpingJacks was a skill I learned as a
child. Yet in this case, thepressure of the situation was
greater than my mental tools.
Under the pressure of Mac'sovertures, the simple skill of
(08:53):
jumping jacks was not accessibleto me. With this reminder, I did
a couple of jumping jacks andMac moved away, we continue
talking now about boundaries andhow we can set them even more
importantly, how we defend themor don't. In this case, I had
failed to keep Mac out of theperimeter I had mentally drawn
(09:14):
around me. The same oftenhappens with the people in my
life as well. It could be aboundary as simple as, don't be
late yet, I failed to defend theboundary. Instead constantly
tolerating lateness until wehave a blow up. While we were
talking, the ever committed matcrept back in as if to say, Are
you sure this time, rather thandoing typical jumping jacks, I
(09:37):
jumped forcefully towards him. Iwas quite proud of myself. My
forceful way seemed to be a goodway to raise the pressure and
tell him, in no uncertain terms,to back off.
Bruce saw something different.
He asked, what was that? Did younotice what you did there? Well,
yes, I did. Thank you very much.
I was very decisive. I thoughtto myself, another part. Me
(10:00):
thought, Uh oh, here we goagain. What is it this time?
Yeah, I made damn sure he stayedback. I said, Was that really
it, or were you trying to helphim too much, and were you a bit
angry with him? Why would younot let him make the mistake?
Did you not overreact? Bruceasked. Now we were getting to
(10:21):
the good stuff. These questionsled us to a deep conversation
about over and under reacting,especially from the parent child
dance that is the hallmark ofkid mode. On the parent side, I
was trying to help too much, andI was angry with him. I was
angry that he was making meexpend the energy, angry that he
(10:41):
might make me look bad, andangry that he didn't get it
right that first time, I wantedto save him from having me
correct him on the child side, Iwas aware that he was bigger
than me, stronger than me, andcould run over me. I did not
want him to use his poweragainst me in the grand scheme
(11:02):
of things. I wanted him to beperfect. I wanted me to be
perfect. When I'm caught in theperfection game, I'm not being
the conduit. I'm not assessing,recalibrating, correcting, I'm
caught in the control trapthinking I know what to do, when
to do, and how to do. I'm stuckon the attachment side of the
(11:23):
human tightrope, banking myworthiness on the behavior of
the horse. I've completelyfocused on my needs and ignored
the needs of Mac, and that'swhen things start to fall apart.
Bruce asked, why would you notgive Mac the opportunity to
build his mental tools? Does henot need to learn how to survive
in the world that we havecreated? Does he not need to
(11:44):
learn how to be okay standingtwo feet from you instead of all
up in your space? How can helearn that if you insist on
throwing anger at him ratherthan raising up his negative
pole, you were using pressure tointimidate instead of using
pressure to communicate.
Apparently, my attack Jacks werenot the answer to Bruce's
questions. Bruce was looking forme to be here now in the mind
(12:06):
state he calls alpha, where myneeds are balanced with Max
needs, where Mac is telling mehow much pressure to apply.
Tyrant mindset runs on my pastrules where I assert either too
much parent or too much childand ignores the valuable Intel
available to me. Humanattachment needs are integrated
(12:29):
and balanced with selfexpressive needs. Together, we
walk the tightrope where thingsare just so the space is
elusive. On this day, Brucedescribed it as passing through
the line. The picture is morelike loops to me, back and forth
across an imaginary line whereeverything is balanced, if only
for a moment. Staying on thetightrope is incredibly
(12:52):
difficult, and the real workhappens in the recalibration
back to center in both mind andbody. We overshoot and correct,
we undershoot and correct withclarity about using our tools,
it's possible for the swings tobecome smaller and smaller when
our focus moves from thinkingand balance is a mistake and
instead transitions to asking,what's next. Recalibration
(13:15):
happens through our tools, suchas patience, timing, feel,
discipline and problem solving.
Each side of the tightropeoffers a different type of over
and under correction. On thechild side of power under we
might lack confidence. We wantsomeone to give us the answer.
It's all too easy to feelhelpless. Our frustration turns
(13:38):
inward, bathing us in the mantraand inertia of what's wrong with
me. Why is this happening to me?
It's not fair. The child side ofthis tightrope screams victim.
On the other hand, the oppositewill throw us out of balance.
The other way, on the power overside of the tightrope, we might
get angry. I've been known tothrow a tantrum when I can't
(13:58):
make something go my way, asevidenced by my attack jacks
with Mac. Frustration rules ourchoices. Suddenly we wield our
power over by blaming others,seeing them as the problem.
Bruce called this beatingyourself up to the other person.
Now instead of being a victim,we become the tyrannical parent
with all the answers, or we helptoo much because we think no one
(14:20):
else can handle the situation.
If we are to do anything new anddo it in a meaningful way, we
must first commit it helps totune into our tendency to do
things out of people pleasing,or to seek approval or to not
disappoint someone. In thosecases, we are complying rather
than committing. True commitmentcomes from within us. It helps
(14:46):
to be curious about what iswithin us. CHAPTER 15, curiosity
a super tool. The gateway to ourtools is curiosity and. In some
ways, Curiosity is like a supertool setting the conditions for
our mind to listen, hear, solveproblems and feel if we're not
(15:08):
interested in what's happening,either internally or externally,
we're not going to be able tomake the moves to adjust, nor
are we going to learn anythingthe need to be curious often
happens right about the time ourmistake button gets hit, if
survival mode kicks in, we aremore likely to be self
protective rather than open tolearning. Yet that's the time
(15:28):
when we most need our curiosity.
The sooner we can recalibrateback towards center, the better
curiosity and experimentation gohand in hand. We get to stress
test our assumptions play warmercolder and seek the balance
point. It's always there. If wecan get out of our own way, if
we double down on showing whatwe know, we are simply putting
(15:48):
off the moment where we areforced to deal with the truth of
what's happening. I once had acoach ask me, where do you think
that comes from? Referring toone of my intractable patterns,
my first answer was, I don'tcare and I don't want to know.
In other words, I was notcurious about my inner world at
all. Given the tools I hadcultivated at that point, my
fear of what was in the basementoutweighed my desire to know
(16:11):
more vulnerability. Over theyears, I've coached many
executives who were in a varietyof transitions, such as joining
a new company, taking on a newrole in their old company, or
changing careers altogether.
I've also worked with teams thatwere charged with a new project
or responsibility. The commonthread in all transitions is the
(16:33):
uncertainty. They are leavingwhat they know in exchange for
what they do not know.
Uncertainty puts us in thefroth, it breeds all kinds of
emotions, anticipation,excitement, Dread, self doubt
and caution are just a few a lotof high achievers, and I include
myself in this group. Answeruncertainty with a proving
mindset. When I was working inbanking, every merger brought
(16:54):
with it the hidden questions ofuncertainty, who will get which
jobs? What will happen to me?
How will the new leadership teamknow what I can do? What will I
have to do to fit in? Sometimesthey voice these questions. More
often than not, they answeredwith more answers here. Let me
show you what I know. I can dothis better than anyone else.
(17:14):
See how valuable I am whenworking with leaders taking on a
new role in a new company, Iremind them that the first 90
days are a free pass to becurious and learn about the
organization. The most importantthing they can do is listen and
learn. Yet it can be quitedifficult to meet uncertainty
with vulnerability. And make nomistake, curiosity and
(17:36):
vulnerability are close cousins.
We are choosing to open ourminds and hearts to something
new, something we may not knowyet. We are saying I don't know.
Tell me more. We might discoversomething that rocks our world.
We might find out that what webelieved before is not true.
Curiosity asks questions withwonder. I wonder why I wonder?
What I wonder how I wonder ifrocking back and forth to find
(18:01):
the middle involves beingcurious. I wonder, is it better
over here take a few steps orover here, the game of warmer
colder takes us away from thecomfortable place and
intentionally through the placesthat don't work so that we can
find what does work. Provingmindset stories come from
insecurity. The core question,am I enough? Interferes with the
(18:23):
desire to learn instead ofwondering. We often make up
stories based on assumptionsfrom our past. The antidote to
assuming we know things iscuriosity. My old stories were
written to protect me when I'mliving in this moment, my story
naturally unfolds with curiosityleading the way. When something
happens, I can think to myself,How fascinating. I wonder what's
(18:46):
going on. However, when I'mcaught in the past or fearful of
the future, my reaction islikely going to come from a
story that doesn't serve thecurrent moment. In my book, The
elegant pivot, an inspired movefor navigating corporate
politics. I share many examplesof my early corporate life where
I was the champion of making upstories. Most of the stories
(19:08):
involve someone being out to getme or make me look bad in front
of the boss, while corporatelife does have some dog eat dog
aspects. Making up those storieswas on me. Survival Mode is
about the fearin learning about horses. Both
Bruce and Lynn encouraged me tofocus on the behavior happening
in front of me, not on some madeup reason the horse was doing
(19:30):
something early on, I saidthings like he's not respecting
me, or the horse is mad at me,or why doesn't he like me, none
of that was true. The horse wasbehaving in a perfectly logical
manner, given his history andhis survival. Brain, my job was
to understand the horse, tolisten and hear what he was
telling me. I could only do thatif I chose to open up myself to
(19:53):
be curious, but it's difficultto be curious if you are under
pressure. No one wants to lookbad, and one of my hot buttons
is caring what people think ofme. Sometimes it helps to see it
from a distance. One day on atrail ride, another rider gave
me a chance to see from adistance. We had stopped in a
busy area where there were lotsof other trail riders. Our group
(20:16):
decided to get off and have adrink and rest, we saw a small
group of riders coming down thetrail towards us. One of the
horses in the group was backingup, walking crooked and
seemingly refusing to goforward. As the rider passed us,
she looked over at us and said,he's being such a jerk today.
She said this as she was kickinghim to go forward and pull him
(20:37):
back hard on the reins, as if tostop him. The horse held his
head high, and we could see thewhites of his eyes. We watched
as they continued on the horsejumping side to side and somehow
making it down a steep hillnearby. It looked to me like an
accident waiting to happen. WhatI saw differed from what the
other rider expressed. I saw ascared writer riding a scared
(21:00):
horse. I saw myself a mocha theday all hell broke loose. I saw
myself in every corporatemeeting where I said one thing
and meant another. Survival Modeis not curious. Survival Mode is
all about fear. There's no roomto rock my world. The job of my
survival mode is to batten downthe hatches. Curiosity is the
(21:22):
gateway to being able to reachfor our tools. If we aren't
willing to listen, hear andlearn, there's nothing to
recalibrate. We just simplymarch on doing what we've always
done, wondering why we're notgetting different results.
Warwick on my podcast in early2020 I started a podcast. Now
(21:42):
that I was giving myselfpermission to be more curious
than ever, I decided it would befun to record conversations
where I could ask all kinds ofprobing questions. Bruce was my
third guest, where he willinglyshared his entire method,
including his passion forhelping horses to be horses in
the people's world. One morning,I was scrolling Facebook when
(22:03):
another Warwick Schiller videopopped up, as usual. I watched
it. Warwick explains things veryclearly, and I had learned many
practical horse related skillsfrom watching his videos.
However, he was also sharing hispersonal journey. These days, he
was talking about vulnerability,recovering from trauma, and how
changing himself had changed hisrelationship with his horses.
(22:25):
Thanks to his engaging presence,I felt like I knew him, even
though we had never met whatstruck me most was his
willingness to share his journeyand to even go so far as to say
some of his training methodswere wrong. He was evolving
right before our eyes, and inways I could deeply identify
with over my journey. As I readthis post, I had a strong urge
(22:45):
to invite work on the podcast.
Almost immediately, my ruleskicked in, though, with thoughts
like, what a crazy idea. Whatmakes you think he'll go on the
podcast you don't even know him,and he certainly does not know
you by now, I was much morepracticed in recognizing the
trap and pivoted to reach for mytools. Instead, I wondered if
(23:07):
and decided to ask. I mademyself a cup of tea and sat down
to write him a note on Facebook.
It said, Hi work. Lynn Karn ishere writing to invite you to be
a guest on the creative spiritsunleash podcast which focuses
more on a leadership andcorporate audience than a horse
audience. They need to hear fromyou because horses have much to
teach us leaders about trulycreating partnership, trust and
(23:30):
affiliation. It's time to stopusing dominance as the primary
tool of leadership in business,I think our planet depends on
it. I've watched a ton of yourvideos, and we would have much
to talk about since I fell off ahorse almost three years ago and
got to spend three days in thehospital, I've been on a very
steep learning curve to get backon the horse, and it's
(23:51):
transformed my coaching andleadership practice. I know you
mostly focus on people who workwith horses directly. Are you
willing to share your messagewith people who need to learn
how to develop their presence,to work with other people. I
really, really hope you will sayyes. Within minutes, I got his
response back, yes. I would loveto a week later, we had an
incredibly memorableconversation filled with his
(24:13):
stories of learning to developpresence. We talked a lot about
mind chatter and its impact onour horses and on our own well
being, at one point, heconfirmed a question I had
asked, yes, horses can read yourmind. Had he said that to me
before this pressure journeybegan, I would have dismissed
him as a kook. However, I hadexperienced a horse reading my
(24:37):
mind far too many times by thispoint to doubt his claim. What
kind of chatter was the horsereading in my mind? Early in the
podcast, I mentioned my accidentand my illusion that trail
riding was easy, he said justtrail riding is like jumping out
of a plane, as long as nothinggoes wrong. It's really, really
easy, but you've got to makesure there's quite. Had a bit of
(24:59):
preparation for it not to gowrong. He summed up my whole
journey in that one sentence. Somuch of that preparation occurs
in developing safety for thehorse, as I had been learning on
the podcast, Warwick said,
Unknown (25:13):
what makes horses feel safe in a herd situation? If
someone goes and gets a horseout of a herd and leads them
away from the herd, the horse, alot of times, is winging and
running around like and youthink, what is that? What does
that herd horses provide that Idon't what I think horses feel
safe in a herd environment isthe awareness of all the other
horses.
Lynn (25:35):
He went on to share lots of examples of ways we humans
are not present with horses. Wemay be three seconds ahead or
three seconds behind, or we maybe thinking about what our
teacher in fifth grade saidabout how we slouch and told us
we're not really all thatcoordinated, as my journey had
shown me, developing my ownpresence under pressure could
have life threateningconsequences. My incident on
(25:58):
Shaw, where the turkey flew upunder his nose, showed me the
benefits of being in the momentwhen it counts. Much of the
friendly advice I had receivedafter my accident had nothing to
do with being present or with myenergy. It was all about
improving my skills, or learninghow to do a winery and stop or
picking a better horse. It makessense in this modern era, we
(26:20):
tend to focus on the tangibleand provable. We want the Push
Button answer. Just as energyand thoughts are invisible, so
are our beliefs. If we arebrought up in a belief system
that says we can fix problemswith horses by either
controlling the environment ortraining the horse to be nothing
but obedient, then we will reachfor the rules that give us the
(26:41):
answers we seek, reaching forthe tools of listening and
hearing does feel moreuncomfortable. So many times in
the past three years, I hadlonged for an answer that did
not involve me having to own mypart of the problem. Ironically,
owning my part gave me theopportunity to change it, if I
were willing to work on my ownmind. Warwick had seen plenty of
(27:05):
people who held a belief systemthat wanted tangible proof and
avoided anything that felt tooWoo. Woo. He described what
often happens when he askedpeople if they meditate.
Unknown (27:15):
You know, at clinics, I tell people that, you know, I
asked, Do people have ameditation practice? A lot of
people go, No, I don't know. Youknow, I don't like that, or
whatever. And I said, you know,meditating is just controlling
what your mind thinks about. Andwhen you are around your horse,
you need to be able to controlwhat your mind thinks about. So
it's basically practice. It'spracticing what you can do with
your horse when you're not withyour horse, and especially if
(27:38):
you're out trial riding likeyou, and that horse runs off,
right then you have to be ableto control what your mind thinks
about. And a big blue tree thingwould be pulling back on both
frames, squeezing the legs,going, Whoa. An orange
basketball thing would bethinking, Okay, what have I got
to do here to ensure I survivethis thing? I reach down this
rain, put a band out. But it'sjust, it's controlling what your
(28:00):
mind thinks about. And if youcan't control what your mind
thinks, your mind thinks aboutwhen nothing's going on, you
really can't control what yourmind thinks about when you're on
the back of 1000 pound animal.
Let's leave in town.
Lynn (28:12):
Horses know if we're not here right now, whether we are
living three seconds or 30 yearsout of the moment, they crave
our presence, choosing to be allknowing rather than curious,
leaves us divided. Part of uskeeps stuffing emotions and
hiding, and the other partdemands to be heard. The
subconscious mind plays a waybigger role in our actions and
(28:35):
decision making than ourconscious mind. It takes courage
to see our truth. Thank you forlistening to the creative
spirits unleash podcast. Istarted this podcast because I
was having these greatconversations, and I wanted to
share them with others. I'malways learning in these
conversations, and I wanted toshare that kind of learning with
(28:57):
you. Now what I need to hearfrom you is what you want more
of and what you want less of. Ireally want these podcasts to be
of value for the listeners.
Also, if you happen to knowsomeone who you think might love
them, please share the podcastand, of course, subscribe and
rate it on the different appsthat you're using, because
that's how others will find it.
(29:17):
Now, I hope you go and dosomething very fun today. You.
Lynn, Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life and now here's
your host. Lynn Carnes,
Lynn (00:19):
welcome to the creative spirits. Unleash Podcast. I'm
Len Carnes, your host. Thisepisode includes dancing the
tightrope. Chapter 14,commitment and chapter 15,
curiosity. These are the firstof two chapters in the book
outlining the building blocks ofself awareness. If you've
listened this far, you'vecertainly heard me talk about
(00:40):
the value of these inner tools,both commitment and curiosity, I
decided to highlight the fivebuilding blocks of self
awareness at this stage in mystory, because I found myself
not always showing up inpressure situations the way I
would have liked to, it wasclear to me that sometimes I
could reach for my tools, andother times I had to reach for
my rules. Awareness was thedifference, but there was
(01:04):
something more. For severalweeks, I became more and more
aware of my awareness. It wasthrough this focused attention
that I began to see that I felloff at different points of the
five building blocks of selfawareness. Sometimes it was at
the level of being committed.
Sometimes it was lack ofcuriosity, or one of the other
three layers, which I dive intoin the chapters to follow. I
(01:27):
revisit the lessons in thesechapters over and over again
now, because they help me finetune my awareness when I get off
track. And the nature of thegame is not being perfect all
the time. It's about having lotsof ways to get back on track.
Speaking of curiosity, by theway, this podcast was created
(01:47):
because of my budding curiosityto have different kinds of
conversations. And you will hearabout one of my early podcast
guests, Warwick Schiller, whohas been on his own journey of
self discovery. He's mentionedin chapter 15, which has a
special surprise in it. Asalways, I hope you enjoy this
episode of creative spiritsunleashed. And if you like it,
(02:09):
please be sure to share it withyour friends, your colleagues,
others that you think might beinterested and help me get the
word out. Because this is atough game guys getting the word
out. There's a lot ofcompetition out there, and the
more you share it, the more ithelps. Thank you so much for
listening, and I hope you enjoythis podcast. Chapter 14,
commitment a source of energy.
(02:36):
Commitment provides anintangible, but very real source
of energy to get something donein context of a self awareness
journey, we have to first committo learning things we have kept
hidden, either intentionally orunintentionally. How willing Am
I to understand more about myinner self? How willing Am I to
understand my impact on others,as with so many factors we can
(03:00):
either under commit or overcommit. In many companies, I've
seen under commitment in theform of compliance. People are
obediently doing their jobs, butwithout the vitalizing energy
that shows they care. Sometimeswe can get over committed.
Usually it happens when we aregiving more than the company is
giving back in return. As withanything else, there's a
balancing act with commitment.
In my deep dive of learningdifferent philosophies of horse
(03:24):
training, I saw some trainerswho focused almost exclusively
on compliance, and others ongaining trust, to the exclusion
of asking anything from thehorse at all. Both ways are out
of balance. Horse woman LeeMcLean says, imagine an old
fashioned scale in the balancewill hang discipline on the
other side, that intangiblething I call feel. If this was
(03:46):
your scale, which side wouldoutweigh the other? Most of us,
if we are honest, struggle withbalancing the two based on our
inherent personality traits,along with who has mentored us.
We will embrace the one mindsetwhile struggling with its
opposing view. Those of us whoexpect obedience seldom have our
horses flat out say no, nor dothey ever behave badly. We
(04:09):
usually feel safe in the saddle,but we can miss out on a lot of
the good stuff by enforcingrules and concentrating on
precision. We sometimes lose ourability to give at just the
right moments. Our riding canhave a taking quality while our
horses lose their natural flow.
We're big on rules. Those of uswho are all about the connection
(04:32):
with our mouths can have theopposite problems in our quest
for giving and feel we may notsend our horses enough
leadership. Sometimes our horsescan be unreliable or
inconsistent without firmboundaries. We may value the
concept of peace and harmonyabove working through the
underlying problems or times ofdiscord. We're all about the
love. Often our horsemanshipmirrors our human relationships.
(04:56):
For most of us, the challengecomes in trying to find a
balance. But. Between those twoextremes, basic safety demands
that my horses go in adisciplined manner, but the joy
in my horsemanship comes fromdeveloping the soft feel. I
don't necessarily think that oneis any better or any worse than
the other, for when we live andbelieve in only one approach,
(05:17):
our horses will never rise to betheir best, nor will we many
days before I swing a leg overI'll stop and breathe. This is
my mantra, especially on thosedays when I'm fierce and more
like or days when I'm feelingfrail, and used love and rules,
love and rules. Love and rules,trademarked and used with
(05:37):
permission from Lee McLean,author, horse woman of Keystone
equine, Alberta, Canada. Back tothe book McLean directs our
attention to the balancing actof the tightrope. Yes, we need
to provide safety for the horse.
We also need boundaries. We mustbe be prepared to deal with a
large animal should he decide heis the one in control and he has
nothing to fear from us. Thesame is true in leadership, all
(06:01):
too often, we seek quote,unquote, obedience from those we
serve, not recognizing thatcompliance comes with its own
costs. On the other hand, I'veseen leaders become doormats. I
was one of them when we becomeso busy focusing on safety that
we forget the dangers of havingno boundaries. Leadership is a
constant game of give and take,as we ask people to rise to
(06:24):
their greatness while at thesame time controlling the heat
so they stay in the froth andbelow their pressure threshold,
too much fear and too much help.
On one of my visits to Bruce, Iwent into the round pen with
Mac, a horse who is quitecommitted to being close to
humans. He's a small horse whocan tend to act like the
(06:46):
annoying little brotherconstantly poking his nose into
my space. It was Mac in theround pen when the big tree fell
the year before, and Mac whocame running at me full speed,
hoping to jump into my lap forsafety. Bruce has a very useful
technique to keep a horse out ofa human space, jumping jacks.
The beauty of doing jumpingjacks is that the energy created
(07:08):
by the movement raises thehorse's negative pole, creating
a bunch of energy with jumpingjacks allows him to build his
mental tools by making the rightthing easy and the wrong thing
hard. On that day, when Mattcame running, I did those
jumping jacks like my lifedepended on them, and he chose
to stop and figure out how toself regulate. On this day,
(07:29):
Bruce was sitting in his usualspot outside the round pen, and
I was just inside the fence aswe were planning our session.
Mac was free to graze or walkaround or stand next to us. He
chose to crowd me, thankfullyfor the sake of a lesson.
Anyway, I forgot one of my mostpowerful tools as we were
(07:50):
speaking, Bruce ignored myfailed attempts to keep Mac from
pushing into me. First I wouldstep back or step aside, that
only emboldened the needy littlehorse. Then I would wave my arm
like I was waving off a fly.
That worked for a millisecond,then he would be back, pushing
in, threatening to get nippy. Inthe meantime, I kept trying to
(08:10):
keep up the conversation withBruce. I was like the little man
in the Wizard of Oz franticallymoving the levers while yelling.
Pay no attention to the womanflailing and failing to move the
horse away. Now that Bruce had aclear picture of where my
pressure threshold was, he askedme, why are you not raising his
Polo? Why are you not choosingto do jumping jacks? Is he not
(08:30):
telling you how much pressure toapply be the conduit? Oh, yeah,
I had a better way. JumpingJacks was a skill I learned as a
child. Yet in this case, thepressure of the situation was
greater than my mental tools.
Under the pressure of Mac'sovertures, the simple skill of
(08:53):
jumping jacks was not accessibleto me. With this reminder, I did
a couple of jumping jacks andMac moved away, we continue
talking now about boundaries andhow we can set them even more
importantly, how we defend themor don't. In this case, I had
failed to keep Mac out of theperimeter I had mentally drawn
(09:14):
around me. The same oftenhappens with the people in my
life as well. It could be aboundary as simple as, don't be
late yet, I failed to defend theboundary. Instead constantly
tolerating lateness until wehave a blow up. While we were
talking, the ever committed matcrept back in as if to say, Are
you sure this time, rather thandoing typical jumping jacks, I
(09:37):
jumped forcefully towards him. Iwas quite proud of myself. My
forceful way seemed to be a goodway to raise the pressure and
tell him, in no uncertain terms,to back off.
Bruce saw something different.
He asked, what was that? Did younotice what you did there? Well,
yes, I did. Thank you very much.
I was very decisive. I thoughtto myself, another part. Me
(10:00):
thought, Uh oh, here we goagain. What is it this time?
Yeah, I made damn sure he stayedback. I said, Was that really
it, or were you trying to helphim too much, and were you a bit
angry with him? Why would younot let him make the mistake?
Did you not overreact? Bruceasked. Now we were getting to
(10:21):
the good stuff. These questionsled us to a deep conversation
about over and under reacting,especially from the parent child
dance that is the hallmark ofkid mode. On the parent side, I
was trying to help too much, andI was angry with him. I was
angry that he was making meexpend the energy, angry that he
(10:41):
might make me look bad, andangry that he didn't get it
right that first time, I wantedto save him from having me
correct him on the child side, Iwas aware that he was bigger
than me, stronger than me, andcould run over me. I did not
want him to use his poweragainst me in the grand scheme
(11:02):
of things. I wanted him to beperfect. I wanted me to be
perfect. When I'm caught in theperfection game, I'm not being
the conduit. I'm not assessing,recalibrating, correcting, I'm
caught in the control trapthinking I know what to do, when
to do, and how to do. I'm stuckon the attachment side of the
(11:23):
human tightrope, banking myworthiness on the behavior of
the horse. I've completelyfocused on my needs and ignored
the needs of Mac, and that'swhen things start to fall apart.
Bruce asked, why would you notgive Mac the opportunity to
build his mental tools? Does henot need to learn how to survive
in the world that we havecreated? Does he not need to
(11:44):
learn how to be okay standingtwo feet from you instead of all
up in your space? How can helearn that if you insist on
throwing anger at him ratherthan raising up his negative
pole, you were using pressure tointimidate instead of using
pressure to communicate.
Apparently, my attack Jacks werenot the answer to Bruce's
questions. Bruce was looking forme to be here now in the mind
(12:06):
state he calls alpha, where myneeds are balanced with Max
needs, where Mac is telling mehow much pressure to apply.
Tyrant mindset runs on my pastrules where I assert either too
much parent or too much childand ignores the valuable Intel
available to me. Humanattachment needs are integrated
(12:29):
and balanced with selfexpressive needs. Together, we
walk the tightrope where thingsare just so the space is
elusive. On this day, Brucedescribed it as passing through
the line. The picture is morelike loops to me, back and forth
across an imaginary line whereeverything is balanced, if only
for a moment. Staying on thetightrope is incredibly
(12:52):
difficult, and the real workhappens in the recalibration
back to center in both mind andbody. We overshoot and correct,
we undershoot and correct withclarity about using our tools,
it's possible for the swings tobecome smaller and smaller when
our focus moves from thinkingand balance is a mistake and
instead transitions to asking,what's next. Recalibration
(13:15):
happens through our tools, suchas patience, timing, feel,
discipline and problem solving.
Each side of the tightropeoffers a different type of over
and under correction. On thechild side of power under we
might lack confidence. We wantsomeone to give us the answer.
It's all too easy to feelhelpless. Our frustration turns
(13:38):
inward, bathing us in the mantraand inertia of what's wrong with
me. Why is this happening to me?
It's not fair. The child side ofthis tightrope screams victim.
On the other hand, the oppositewill throw us out of balance.
The other way, on the power overside of the tightrope, we might
get angry. I've been known tothrow a tantrum when I can't
(13:58):
make something go my way, asevidenced by my attack jacks
with Mac. Frustration rules ourchoices. Suddenly we wield our
power over by blaming others,seeing them as the problem.
Bruce called this beatingyourself up to the other person.
Now instead of being a victim,we become the tyrannical parent
with all the answers, or we helptoo much because we think no one
(14:20):
else can handle the situation.
If we are to do anything new anddo it in a meaningful way, we
must first commit it helps totune into our tendency to do
things out of people pleasing,or to seek approval or to not
disappoint someone. In thosecases, we are complying rather
than committing. True commitmentcomes from within us. It helps
(14:46):
to be curious about what iswithin us. CHAPTER 15, curiosity
a super tool. The gateway to ourtools is curiosity and. In some
ways, Curiosity is like a supertool setting the conditions for
our mind to listen, hear, solveproblems and feel if we're not
(15:08):
interested in what's happening,either internally or externally,
we're not going to be able tomake the moves to adjust, nor
are we going to learn anythingthe need to be curious often
happens right about the time ourmistake button gets hit, if
survival mode kicks in, we aremore likely to be self
protective rather than open tolearning. Yet that's the time
(15:28):
when we most need our curiosity.
The sooner we can recalibrateback towards center, the better
curiosity and experimentation gohand in hand. We get to stress
test our assumptions play warmercolder and seek the balance
point. It's always there. If wecan get out of our own way, if
we double down on showing whatwe know, we are simply putting
(15:48):
off the moment where we areforced to deal with the truth of
what's happening. I once had acoach ask me, where do you think
that comes from? Referring toone of my intractable patterns,
my first answer was, I don'tcare and I don't want to know.
In other words, I was notcurious about my inner world at
all. Given the tools I hadcultivated at that point, my
fear of what was in the basementoutweighed my desire to know
(16:11):
more vulnerability. Over theyears, I've coached many
executives who were in a varietyof transitions, such as joining
a new company, taking on a newrole in their old company, or
changing careers altogether.
I've also worked with teams thatwere charged with a new project
or responsibility. The commonthread in all transitions is the
(16:33):
uncertainty. They are leavingwhat they know in exchange for
what they do not know.
Uncertainty puts us in thefroth, it breeds all kinds of
emotions, anticipation,excitement, Dread, self doubt
and caution are just a few a lotof high achievers, and I include
myself in this group. Answeruncertainty with a proving
mindset. When I was working inbanking, every merger brought
(16:54):
with it the hidden questions ofuncertainty, who will get which
jobs? What will happen to me?
How will the new leadership teamknow what I can do? What will I
have to do to fit in? Sometimesthey voice these questions. More
often than not, they answeredwith more answers here. Let me
show you what I know. I can dothis better than anyone else.
(17:14):
See how valuable I am whenworking with leaders taking on a
new role in a new company, Iremind them that the first 90
days are a free pass to becurious and learn about the
organization. The most importantthing they can do is listen and
learn. Yet it can be quitedifficult to meet uncertainty
with vulnerability. And make nomistake, curiosity and
(17:36):
vulnerability are close cousins.
We are choosing to open ourminds and hearts to something
new, something we may not knowyet. We are saying I don't know.
Tell me more. We might discoversomething that rocks our world.
We might find out that what webelieved before is not true.
Curiosity asks questions withwonder. I wonder why I wonder?
What I wonder how I wonder ifrocking back and forth to find
(18:01):
the middle involves beingcurious. I wonder, is it better
over here take a few steps orover here, the game of warmer
colder takes us away from thecomfortable place and
intentionally through the placesthat don't work so that we can
find what does work. Provingmindset stories come from
insecurity. The core question,am I enough? Interferes with the
(18:23):
desire to learn instead ofwondering. We often make up
stories based on assumptionsfrom our past. The antidote to
assuming we know things iscuriosity. My old stories were
written to protect me when I'mliving in this moment, my story
naturally unfolds with curiosityleading the way. When something
happens, I can think to myself,How fascinating. I wonder what's
(18:46):
going on. However, when I'mcaught in the past or fearful of
the future, my reaction islikely going to come from a
story that doesn't serve thecurrent moment. In my book, The
elegant pivot, an inspired movefor navigating corporate
politics. I share many examplesof my early corporate life where
I was the champion of making upstories. Most of the stories
(19:08):
involve someone being out to getme or make me look bad in front
of the boss, while corporatelife does have some dog eat dog
aspects. Making up those storieswas on me. Survival Mode is
about the fearin learning about horses. Both
Bruce and Lynn encouraged me tofocus on the behavior happening
in front of me, not on some madeup reason the horse was doing
(19:30):
something early on, I saidthings like he's not respecting
me, or the horse is mad at me,or why doesn't he like me, none
of that was true. The horse wasbehaving in a perfectly logical
manner, given his history andhis survival. Brain, my job was
to understand the horse, tolisten and hear what he was
telling me. I could only do thatif I chose to open up myself to
(19:53):
be curious, but it's difficultto be curious if you are under
pressure. No one wants to lookbad, and one of my hot buttons
is caring what people think ofme. Sometimes it helps to see it
from a distance. One day on atrail ride, another rider gave
me a chance to see from adistance. We had stopped in a
busy area where there were lotsof other trail riders. Our group
(20:16):
decided to get off and have adrink and rest, we saw a small
group of riders coming down thetrail towards us. One of the
horses in the group was backingup, walking crooked and
seemingly refusing to goforward. As the rider passed us,
she looked over at us and said,he's being such a jerk today.
She said this as she was kickinghim to go forward and pull him
(20:37):
back hard on the reins, as if tostop him. The horse held his
head high, and we could see thewhites of his eyes. We watched
as they continued on the horsejumping side to side and somehow
making it down a steep hillnearby. It looked to me like an
accident waiting to happen. WhatI saw differed from what the
other rider expressed. I saw ascared writer riding a scared
(21:00):
horse. I saw myself a mocha theday all hell broke loose. I saw
myself in every corporatemeeting where I said one thing
and meant another. Survival Modeis not curious. Survival Mode is
all about fear. There's no roomto rock my world. The job of my
survival mode is to batten downthe hatches. Curiosity is the
(21:22):
gateway to being able to reachfor our tools. If we aren't
willing to listen, hear andlearn, there's nothing to
recalibrate. We just simplymarch on doing what we've always
done, wondering why we're notgetting different results.
Warwick on my podcast in early2020 I started a podcast. Now
(21:42):
that I was giving myselfpermission to be more curious
than ever, I decided it would befun to record conversations
where I could ask all kinds ofprobing questions. Bruce was my
third guest, where he willinglyshared his entire method,
including his passion forhelping horses to be horses in
the people's world. One morning,I was scrolling Facebook when
(22:03):
another Warwick Schiller videopopped up, as usual. I watched
it. Warwick explains things veryclearly, and I had learned many
practical horse related skillsfrom watching his videos.
However, he was also sharing hispersonal journey. These days, he
was talking about vulnerability,recovering from trauma, and how
changing himself had changed hisrelationship with his horses.
(22:25):
Thanks to his engaging presence,I felt like I knew him, even
though we had never met whatstruck me most was his
willingness to share his journeyand to even go so far as to say
some of his training methodswere wrong. He was evolving
right before our eyes, and inways I could deeply identify
with over my journey. As I readthis post, I had a strong urge
(22:45):
to invite work on the podcast.
Almost immediately, my ruleskicked in, though, with thoughts
like, what a crazy idea. Whatmakes you think he'll go on the
podcast you don't even know him,and he certainly does not know
you by now, I was much morepracticed in recognizing the
trap and pivoted to reach for mytools. Instead, I wondered if
(23:07):
and decided to ask. I mademyself a cup of tea and sat down
to write him a note on Facebook.
It said, Hi work. Lynn Karn ishere writing to invite you to be
a guest on the creative spiritsunleash podcast which focuses
more on a leadership andcorporate audience than a horse
audience. They need to hear fromyou because horses have much to
teach us leaders about trulycreating partnership, trust and
(23:30):
affiliation. It's time to stopusing dominance as the primary
tool of leadership in business,I think our planet depends on
it. I've watched a ton of yourvideos, and we would have much
to talk about since I fell off ahorse almost three years ago and
got to spend three days in thehospital, I've been on a very
steep learning curve to get backon the horse, and it's
(23:51):
transformed my coaching andleadership practice. I know you
mostly focus on people who workwith horses directly. Are you
willing to share your messagewith people who need to learn
how to develop their presence,to work with other people. I
really, really hope you will sayyes. Within minutes, I got his
response back, yes. I would loveto a week later, we had an
incredibly memorableconversation filled with his
(24:13):
stories of learning to developpresence. We talked a lot about
mind chatter and its impact onour horses and on our own well
being, at one point, heconfirmed a question I had
asked, yes, horses can read yourmind. Had he said that to me
before this pressure journeybegan, I would have dismissed
him as a kook. However, I hadexperienced a horse reading my
(24:37):
mind far too many times by thispoint to doubt his claim. What
kind of chatter was the horsereading in my mind? Early in the
podcast, I mentioned my accidentand my illusion that trail
riding was easy, he said justtrail riding is like jumping out
of a plane, as long as nothinggoes wrong. It's really, really
easy, but you've got to makesure there's quite. Had a bit of
(24:59):
preparation for it not to gowrong. He summed up my whole
journey in that one sentence. Somuch of that preparation occurs
in developing safety for thehorse, as I had been learning on
the podcast, Warwick said,
Unknown (25:13):
what makes horses feel safe in a herd situation? If
someone goes and gets a horseout of a herd and leads them
away from the herd, the horse, alot of times, is winging and
running around like and youthink, what is that? What does
that herd horses provide that Idon't what I think horses feel
safe in a herd environment isthe awareness of all the other
horses.
Lynn (25:35):
He went on to share lots of examples of ways we humans
are not present with horses. Wemay be three seconds ahead or
three seconds behind, or we maybe thinking about what our
teacher in fifth grade saidabout how we slouch and told us
we're not really all thatcoordinated, as my journey had
shown me, developing my ownpresence under pressure could
have life threateningconsequences. My incident on
(25:58):
Shaw, where the turkey flew upunder his nose, showed me the
benefits of being in the momentwhen it counts. Much of the
friendly advice I had receivedafter my accident had nothing to
do with being present or with myenergy. It was all about
improving my skills, or learninghow to do a winery and stop or
picking a better horse. It makessense in this modern era, we
(26:20):
tend to focus on the tangibleand provable. We want the Push
Button answer. Just as energyand thoughts are invisible, so
are our beliefs. If we arebrought up in a belief system
that says we can fix problemswith horses by either
controlling the environment ortraining the horse to be nothing
but obedient, then we will reachfor the rules that give us the
(26:41):
answers we seek, reaching forthe tools of listening and
hearing does feel moreuncomfortable. So many times in
the past three years, I hadlonged for an answer that did
not involve me having to own mypart of the problem. Ironically,
owning my part gave me theopportunity to change it, if I
were willing to work on my ownmind. Warwick had seen plenty of
(27:05):
people who held a belief systemthat wanted tangible proof and
avoided anything that felt tooWoo. Woo. He described what
often happens when he askedpeople if they meditate.
Unknown (27:15):
You know, at clinics, I tell people that, you know, I
asked, Do people have ameditation practice? A lot of
people go, No, I don't know. Youknow, I don't like that, or
whatever. And I said, you know,meditating is just controlling
what your mind thinks about. Andwhen you are around your horse,
you need to be able to controlwhat your mind thinks about. So
it's basically practice. It'spracticing what you can do with
your horse when you're not withyour horse, and especially if
(27:38):
you're out trial riding likeyou, and that horse runs off,
right then you have to be ableto control what your mind thinks
about. And a big blue tree thingwould be pulling back on both
frames, squeezing the legs,going, Whoa. An orange
basketball thing would bethinking, Okay, what have I got
to do here to ensure I survivethis thing? I reach down this
rain, put a band out. But it'sjust, it's controlling what your
(28:00):
mind thinks about. And if youcan't control what your mind
thinks, your mind thinks aboutwhen nothing's going on, you
really can't control what yourmind thinks about when you're on
the back of 1000 pound animal.
Let's leave in town.
Lynn (28:12):
Horses know if we're not here right now, whether we are
living three seconds or 30 yearsout of the moment, they crave
our presence, choosing to be allknowing rather than curious,
leaves us divided. Part of uskeeps stuffing emotions and
hiding, and the other partdemands to be heard. The
subconscious mind plays a waybigger role in our actions and
(28:35):
decision making than ourconscious mind. It takes courage
to see our truth. Thank you forlistening to the creative
spirits unleash podcast. Istarted this podcast because I
was having these greatconversations, and I wanted to
share them with others. I'malways learning in these
conversations, and I wanted toshare that kind of learning with
(28:57):
you. Now what I need to hearfrom you is what you want more
of and what you want less of. Ireally want these podcasts to be
of value for the listeners.
Also, if you happen to knowsomeone who you think might love
them, please share the podcastand, of course, subscribe and
rate it on the different appsthat you're using, because
that's how others will find it.
(29:17):
Now, I hope you go and dosomething very fun today. You.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.