#94 Julia Carpenter: The Two Step Way

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Lynn, Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life. And now here's
your host. Lynn Carnes,

Lynn (00:19):
welcome to the Creative Spirits Unleashed Podcast. I'm
Lynn Carnes, your host. My guestfor this episode of the podcast
is Julia carpenter. This episodestarted unlike any other I've
ever done. Julia read a passagefrom a non published book she
calls the PROLOG to theunwritten memoir. The passage
was a launching point for many,many themes for this podcast.

(00:45):
Perhaps the most important wasthe theme of finding our true
nature and purpose in thisworld. Julia also happens to be
the wife of my last podcastguest, Bernie Harbert, and in
this conversation, we touched onsome of the same stories as we
did in Bernie's podcast, butfrom the angle of the one
staying at home. Now, here's alittle bit more about Julia.

(01:06):
Julia carpenter is the founderof the two step way, which is at
the two step way.com. The twostep way helps horse owners and
caregivers learn how to be withtheir horses and how to really
see them, to promote connectiontrust and health. Julia is
interested in helping animals,particularly horses, heal from
trauma, and has studied intentlywith that goal in mind. She grew

(01:29):
up on a horse farm in Vermontand has been a licensed riding
instructor and trainer workingwith race horses, Hunter
jumpers, polo ponies and fieldhunters. Julia has had a
lifelong friendship andassociation, researching
training and caring for animals.
She loves volunteering to helpout animal rescues with her
knowledge. She has a privatepractice helping people and
their equines learn and benefitfrom her two step way. Julia has

(01:51):
degrees in wildlife managementand environmental policy from
Boston University and Tufts, andhas worked in the wildlife and
environmental fields. She is apainter, and her animal
paintings have been shown ingalleries and shops in the
Boston area and western NorthCarolina. She is the author of
one little cookbook called petfood, 16 dessert recipes to make
you smile. Julia lives on asmall farm in the mountains of

(02:16):
western North Carolina with herhusband, Bernie harberts, the
long rider, filmmaker andauthor, in addition to two
rescue Border Collies, threemules, a rescue pony and her
halflinger, she enjoys riding inthe mountains around her farm
and on longer rides with burningshe blogs about her life with
animals, equine rambling and thetwo step way at considering
animals.com she also blogs aboutworking with horses at her two

(02:39):
stepway.com website. I will saythis, I'm on the board of rain
rescue, and we have foundJulia's work to be just life
changing for both the humans andthe horses. So she is someone
who walks her talk, and as youknow, that's the kind of people
I love to have on my podcast. Ihope you enjoy this episode with

(02:59):
Julia carpenter. JuliaCarpenter, welcome to the
creative spirits unleashpodcast.

Unknown (03:07):
Thank you. Lynn. I'm so happy to be here.

Lynn (03:10):
I've been wanting to do this with you for a while. We'll
we'll let the listeners knowlater how we've been working
together off and on for quite awhile now. But we when we
started talking about doingthis, you sent me a piece of
writing, and you call it thePROLOG to an unwritten memoir.

(03:30):
When I read it, I immediatelywas like, there's so many
threads and so many beautifulthings here that. And you
suggested that we might startthis way. So I'm going to
actually start by saying, can wetake this unwritten memoir,
Prolog and speak it into beingon the beginning of this
podcast, and then we'll go fromthere?

Julia (03:52):
Sure. Thank you for the opportunity to read it. I think
it's found its purpose. It waswritten a few years back. But
then when I was reading thedescription of what your podcast
was about and what yourintention for your podcast is,

(04:12):
it just kept coming up in mymind. And otherwise, I mean, it
has been buried in my computer.
And I thought, Oh, I wonder if Ieven can find that. And so when
I did, it seemed like a goodfit. And particularly, I know
you recently had my husbandBernie on, and it just sort of
ties us together and and it justseemed fitting to read, so I

(04:39):
will read it. Thank you so much.
Prolog to an unwritten memoir.
When you are seven, you know whoyou wish to become when you are
50, you are lucky if youremember who that was. The lucky
few travel straight and fast totheir destination. For the rest
of us. Route winds. The routebecomes obscure. The route is

(05:01):
blocked. The route lies. Theroute demands more money than we
have. The route wishes to pleaseothers. The route gets
distracted. The route leads to adifferent destination, or finds
its way back again after manyswitchbacks and turnarounds,
sometimes later in life, youmust walk yourself back to find
the child and ask her again whatthe dream was. You are lucky if

(05:25):
you can find her again thistime, if you do find her, grab a
hold of her hand and walk withher to that destination that was
once her powerful dream, a dreamthat made her bursting to grow
up and to set out, if only thechild had been brave enough,
bold enough, full of enoughcourage and self assurance to

(05:45):
yell at you when you went offcourse, if she could have
whispered to you, don't listento that. Come on. Follow me. I
am your heart. Let's keep going.
We'll find our way. We're notwrong. We know best where we are
going, if only that child couldhave solved up like a mule and

(06:05):
refused to go any other way buther own. Because now life feels
short and years feel robbed.
Now, though the child has beenfound and allowed to speak,
listen intently to her as thisis you follow her, organize your
priorities around her dreams. Reestablish your values, question
your fears, Buck your naysayers.

(06:28):
Understand that time isfleeting, and the child in you
is bursting to realize as muchof the dream as is still
possible. Please help her. Thereis nothing, nothing more
precious or urgent for you tounderstand. This is the way to
live. This is the way to diewith less regrets. This is the
way to self expression. This isthe way to create. This is the

(06:50):
way to best be you when all ofus from a young age, something
whispers at us, somethingbeckons or calls to us, we want
to explore the sea, perhaps, orride horses fast at the wind. We
want to write books or climbmountains, paint huge, colorful
canvases, or become rock stars,discover new planets, or dance

(07:11):
so beautifully that it makespeople cry. These are big dreams
with no walls around them. Theentry is open and we are hooked.
They are just beyond ourchildhood. We say we will become
these, the people who do thesethings. We follow our dreams
until finally, they disappearunder a pile of obstacles. Few
dig them out again, but more isburied there than just the

(07:34):
childhood dream. A piece of yoursoul has been covered in this
dirt. Find a way to wipe it freean old gray Dodge pickup pulling
a flatbed with a rusty horsetrailer welded to it and a red
covered wagon strapped on theback, pulls out of my driveway.
Inside the horse box is a small,stout mule, and in the in the

(07:57):
truck driving away is a man wholistens to his dreams. He is on
his way to walk acrossNewfoundland with his mule and
wagon. I am jealous of him. I amin awe of him. I am in love with
him. Although I am married and Ihave only barely known this man
for three days, his dreams feelfamiliar. He has slept nights

(08:17):
out under the stars with hisanimals. He has traveled with
them. He has spent days withonly them. They have walked
through wilderness together. Hehas raced steeplechase horses.
These dreams are familiar. Theysmack of my childhood dreams,
and he has awakened their echodeep within me. These dreams of
mine lay buried. His arerealized. I watch with sadness

(08:40):
as the truck and trailer pullaway. I wish I were go. I was
going. I wish I was free toleave. I wish I had found my way
to where he is in life. I wishthe story forward was about us.
I wish I had understood I wasoff my path before I had woven
others into the fabric of mylife. Now I need to dig and tear

(09:01):
to dig and dig and unearth allthat is piled up on top of these
dreams to tear myself out of thefabric others have come to
depend on. It will hurt. It willwrench good people who do not
deserve it will be hurt in theprocess. It seems almost better
to leave it all alone. Yet Icannot. I want to go back and to

(09:21):
find the path the one I startedout on. I want to shake myself
free. I have gone off course byinfluence to please others, from
lack of courage, from loyalty,from grief, from love, from poor
self confidence, fromcircumstance, from half lives, I
have told myself from compromiseand from uncertainty.

Lynn (09:46):
I don't even know where to start. I knew hearing you read
it would get me verklempt,because I think of, I think of
all the people I know, includingmyself, who. Who allowed our
obligations to cover up ourdreams and, and then, you know,

(10:10):
had have had to wrench our wayfree and, and in a way, that's
why I love the name of mybusiness, creative spirits
unleashed, because the there's aleashing process that happens on
this planet when we come in tolive and to be part of our
family. So how long ago did youwrite that?

Unknown (10:32):
I probably wrote that four or five years ago.

Lynn (10:37):
Wow. And when did the story happen that you were
watching Bernie go, Oh, that was

Julia (10:44):
12 years ago. So

Lynn (10:46):
that was just as you were meeting him. I take it yes,

Unknown (10:50):
there was rumbling in my ground. I was feeling stuck
in a place that needed atransition, but not one that I
was going to know how to doanything with or take. I had,

(11:16):
you know, what I would probablyconsider a beautiful life with a
lot of good friends. Butsomewhere long ago, it wasn't
really my path I was following.
It was and and I'd known thatfor a very, very long time. I
used to say in my 20s and 30sthat I felt that I was on a set

(11:41):
of train tracks running parallelto the ones that I was supposed
to be on. So so that I alwayshad images of a a path that had
weeds growing all over it, likea very old railroad bed. I uh,
but it was a happy life. I mean,it was a very, very good life. I

(12:04):
was with a great friend who wassupposed to be a great friend
and not a husband, but we so anda really knit group of friends
around it in New England, whereI'd spent most of my childhood,
in various states of NewEngland, but always in that

(12:27):
location. And I guess the reasonI the part that's relation, I
think, for everyone, is howsometimes you can feel in your
life that if you try to moveinto something that feels more
authentic to you, that yousometimes will block it just by
the fact that you seem such apart of a bigger fabric, and

(12:51):
just no idea how you towyourself out of, out of a frat
fabric, whether, I mean, whetherIt's leaving a job you've had
for a long time and wonderingthe repercussions of everything
you know, maybe you knowfeeding, still feeding your
horse, or the schedule, or thefact that you don't really want

(13:16):
to disrupt this company, but Youfeel you need change. So, I
mean, it can apply to anything,anyone. And the funny thing is,
I've read it to several womenwho are around the same age as
you and I, and they they have asimilar reaction to it. They
somehow can really relate itlike just to what you had just

(13:39):
said when you spoke after Ifinished reading,

Lynn (13:45):
I think we I think we identify with it if we're
willing to look and recognizethat that longing I've heard I
met an author again, it must bethis age thing you start seeing
the end. You know when you read,when you're past 50, you know
what you're in the second halfof life, pretty much. And she

(14:08):
called it the the hole in thegarden, and talked about the
beautiful garden that was builtfor her. But it wasn't her
garden. It was, it was that ofthe of the world, of her mother,
of whoever wanted her to be intheir fabric, if you will. And
just to make some metaphors,but, but that there's like this
secret hole in the garden wall,which is the place that we all

(14:30):
long to be, which is we reallyare, that unique divine spark
that only that, only we canbring. And, you know, hearing
the way different peopledescribe that, to me is it's,
it's so uplifting, because itmakes me realize I'm not alone.

(14:51):
And you've all, you know, sortof, we're sort of all on this
journey, like that parallel pathyou describe. And. We get those
glimpses of it, and then it'slike, how do we find our way
there? So, you know, and itseems to me like you are now
finding your way there. Oh,yeah,

Unknown (15:12):
I might not have stopped writing the book if I
were where I am today, because Ifeel, yeah, I feel like I've hit
the ending of it now. I feel nowthat I'm in resonance, complete
joy harmony. Have found theauthentic path, the one that was

(15:38):
my childhood purpose. It's justall lines up again, and boy,
that's just an amazing feelingwhen that all drops into place.
And so I think the final chapterwould be better written. Now it
was originally the idea of thebook was the unearthing process.

(16:00):
And now it would be givingsomebody be able to present the
resolve. And the problem withthe book before is there was not
a resolve yet. It was gonna, itwas gonna have to have been
forced so I I could start it inauthenticity to where I was, but
I wouldn't have been able to endit there. Well,

Lynn (16:21):
you were in, you could almost hear when I when I heard
you read the piece, that you'restill in that tension of finding
your way out of it, if you will.
And you almost have to write inthat place. I don't know about
you, but my experience is, if Idon't capture the moments while
they're having happening later,it's very hard for me to
capture. That's

Unknown (16:41):
right, yeah, yeah. So it's lucky that beginning was
written then, but the end wouldhave had to come five years to
come

Lynn (16:50):
later. Like, it's not like my dancing the tightrope book I
wrote. I wrote many of thosestories as they were happening,
and then I can look back on themnow. And I was like, I could not
have written them from the placeI am now, because this thing
that happens, I love the word,you just use resonance. There's
this thing that happens on theother side of the uncertainty,

(17:12):
the fear and so forth that youcan look at that thing, that
this looks so daunting from theother side, and you're like, Oh,
it was an illusion bomb. Yeah.

Unknown (17:22):
And when I was back there five years ago, when I
wanted to write the joyful, youknow, ending in resonance, it
was inauthentic because I wasn'tthere, yeah, and that's and then
as soon as it felt inauthentic,I got too scared to write it
like I didn't want to write itbecause I knew it wasn't, you
know you're having troublewriting is because you haven't

(17:42):
hit that. You know authenticity,what you really believe back up
feels right. So I couldn't do itthen,

Lynn (17:49):
yeah, and we could talk for days and days about finding
and calibrating your nervoussystem to understand the
difference between what trulyfeels right to you and what
you've been told is supposed tofeel right to you, you know, the
signal versus the noise. But Iwould like to back up a little
bit into a little bit about howyou and I have have met, and

(18:12):
what I've seen you do, because Ithink that puts some practical,
tactical reality around whatdoes it look like when Julia
carpenter is living herauthentic life with the horses
we I'll just say we, we metthrough our work at rain rescue,

(18:35):
which we talked about a littlebit in the podcast with Bernie.
And it comes up a lot in mypodcast now, because I'm down
there a lot say a little bitabout the kind of work you do
now with horses, and I'm goingto give the headline you'd be
for those. For those listening,it's not unusual to find Julia
in a pasture with horses thatshe has got sleeping all around

(18:57):
her because they feel so darncomfortable. So say a little bit
about what you do that bringshorses sort of into this amazing
state of presence.

Unknown (19:08):
Yeah. Okay, so I have something I call the two step
way, and it's two step way tohow to be with and how to really
see. So it's being and seeing,in this case, your horse. But
I'm starting to think it's aslarge as life is those two

(19:30):
things, how to be and how tosee. And what I've learned with
horses is they like us to beincredibly present and and so
that is bringing making sure youcheck in with yourself and that
you aren't having a lot ofthoughts that keep the mind

(19:53):
busy, that cause you yournervous system to pick up your
whatever it is anxiety or or. Soforth, and we're so busy these
days living either in the pastor the future, and we're rarely,
rarely, rarely, just reallypresent and that. And so I do a

(20:14):
lot of inner work meditationwhen I'm with an animal. I'll
make sure that I check in withme and the environment around
me, and then I really make sureI'm very aware of myself, and
then very aware of the being infront of me. And then it's in
that seeing that the horse onsuch a micro level. It's an,

(20:42):
it's a it's an amazing language,and a way to let another being
feel comfortable and secure isto have them feel truly listened
to. And that's in a very deepway. And I know a number of your
guests talk about this stuff,certainly your conversation with

(21:05):
Warwick, but it's, it's seeingthese creatures on such a micro
level, and then responding by bysaying, I see you, and that's in
a number of ways. So say, I'mwalking across a pastor to a
horse, and the horse picks itshead up because it sees me
coming. And I'll note the amountof energy or sympathetic tone

(21:31):
that this horse has taken on.
And that is really an orangeorienting response from a horse
to tell to say, how safe am I?
Is they are a, you know, preyanimal, so they'll say, how safe
Am I with this novel creatureapproaching, and the moment I
see that orienting with the headcome up, I'll stop moment I see

(21:56):
it, and then I'll watch verycarefully, to see, is the
tension starting to relax, or isthe tension getting a little
more? Is he looking a littlemore? If he's standing with
another one, is another headcoming up? Is there an increase
in the amount of energy ofworry? And if there's even a

(22:20):
little I'll take a step or twoback, and if there isn't, and
they go back to eating, and Isee a more relaxed posture
coming on, I'll move fartherinto the space. And this causes
a lot of curiosity in somethinglike a horse. So if they start

(22:40):
to notice that you are not anaggressor. And sometimes with
the ones that I'm trying to givethe upper hand, like the Wild
Mustangs, when we first startapproaching them, I'll actually
back off a little and shrink andso that that gives them more
energy for curiosity, andthey'll come into my space more.

(23:04):
And so that's kind of what I do.
And then if you expand that toany situation somebody gives me
with a horse, I will teach thatperson how to really observe the
behavior and the language of nowords oriented around an animal
that thinks of house wanting toknow questions of their security

(23:29):
all the time, if that makessense,

Lynn (23:34):
I've seen that many times, and I've seen you show that It
it's easier said than done, Iwill say, because what I have
found, notwithstanding years andyears and years of meditation
and lots of personal work onmyself, is just how noisy my
head still can be, and what itreally takes to sort of drop all

(23:59):
that noise. Because whether wethink it's transparent or not,
to being such as horses whospeak in the language of energy,
the language of nature, thatthat noise in our head creates
some kind of vibration they canpick up, sure does.

Unknown (24:16):
Yeah, yeah. I'll give you another example that's
fascinating. I just came backfrom this, just most amazing
four days in Texas, learninglevel one, craniosacral, work
with shea Stewart, who's alsobeen on world, yeah and the it

(24:36):
was an amazing group thatalready has a really fairly
strong understanding of, youknow, the the language of
energy. And there was only sevenstudents and Shay and her
assistant, and so that energywent. We'd go to work with the

(25:00):
horses was already amazing. Andevery day there was horses
laying down and yawning andreacting. And on the last day, I
had offered to take this onehorse that was quite aggressive,
and He's usually not used forit, and they had to change out a
horse. And so the the daybefore, a woman had worked with

(25:26):
him, and had to do all of thework, distance work, because he
was quite reactive and kepttrying to bite her. And so I
took the horse, and he came intothe ring with me and, and he,
you know, sure enough, put hisears back and and threw his
shoulder at me and and reallypostured in the in a way that

(25:51):
the next thing is, you know, I'mgoing to bite you, and a very
cold eye, lot of aggressionmovement for someone who's, you
know, deals with that in work.
And a lot there's, you know,just moments, what I usually
like to do is take my hands upand put them out with the rope

(26:12):
and just give a little shake ofmy energy back, but trying to
get more involved in this. Andof course, you know, I
immediately picked up on theamount of jitters I had. And the
first time I saw this kind ofcharge, he was, you know,
offering. And so I doubled downon my focus. So sometimes I like

(26:35):
to focus my eyes and keep mybody very, very still as a way
to make sure I have two sensesthat are working for me, and
also a very much feeling ofgrounding on my feet. So I was
doing my grounding things, butthen I pictured I started to be
able. So the first few times hewent at me. I was I would take

(27:00):
the rope in my hands, and then Isaid, No, I'm going to try to do
this with my energy. And so Igrounded myself, and then I
pictured, I pictured my energybubble blowing up around me. And
so every time he would go tostart to posture, and I got very
good at recognizing the firstmicro change in his expression.
When he was going to posture andI would blow up my energy bubble

(27:24):
around me just with my mind. Anddamned if it didn't work, he
felt it. He knew where the edgewas, and pretty soon he
softened. And then I have alittle video of him. He laid
down on the ground and went tosleep, and then in the end, he
stood, I could stand right inhis space, and he wasn't feeling

(27:44):
like he was going to wow, attackme. But what I mean by that is I
really get you. I mean that Iwas in the inside, shaking like
a leaf, and I had to regroundmyself and find the energy
within the authentic energy tojust blow up my safety bubble
around me. And it was anexercise in learning how to hold

(28:09):
that Yeah, and we can work onthat all the time. And the one
that I find is just your pureI'm sure you felt this. Your
pure meditation alone, withoutthe horse, you get so much more
grounded that whether it's aperson yelling at you or a horse

(28:35):
coming into your space, overtime, you realize, Wow, I didn't
my needle did not jump like itwould have. And you start to
realize that you become less,less, less less reactive and
more centered and more calm, andthat stillness, when you can
find stillness and speak in thelanguage of stillness, the

(28:59):
animals, that's all they'relooking for, too. The the
posturing is just them in thesame place. So I know that we're
shared that energy, the energythat's causing the friction is
the same is is shared energy. Sowe can, one of us, if we want to
start, can dissipate it. We canbring it down, and then you

(29:20):
change everybody. And that's,it's almost like getting the
trust going, and then both cantrust.

Lynn (29:28):
So it's, it sounds, in the way I think about it, it's like
you were starting to speak hislanguage, which is how more talk
to each other, which is they,they all are very aware of each
other's bubbles. Yes, yes. Whenyou created a bubble that was
familiar language to him, it'salmost like going to a foreign

(29:49):
country and all and all of asudden they're speaking a
language.

Unknown (29:52):
Oh, absolutely so true.
And, and the thing that thisfive days, if that. Didn't
deepen was how true that energysharing and how you know our
actual skin is really porous andeverything is there's no true
edges. And if we can start torealize that we have so much

(30:14):
communication and control in ourwhole environment, it's just so
lovely to find. And that's,that's, I think, what I love
about my work more than anythingis, is, is teaching people the
universal language, and, and,and it's not the horse speak,

(30:37):
you know, his ears are likethis, and we, you know, step,
it's not, it's not trying tocopy a horse and Return, return
it to them, so much as it islearning that Still, if in
stillness and awareness, is, is,is a universal communication

(31:01):
that we can get better andbetter at seeing and sharing.

Lynn (31:09):
Yeah, well, I'd like to call out a couple of things that
I noticed that you didn't do inthat story and in what you were
doing was you didn't get mad atthe horse, who didn't judge the
horse, right? You didn't I, whenI as I've been going through my
learnings, I had this thing Iused to call attack jacks, and

(31:33):
it's jumping jacks, which aredesigned to create a bubble of
energy, and that, that's the waythat you can create a bubble of
energy if you're not able to doit with your mind like you did.
Is it, as a beginner for me,just jumping jacks, but when the
horse was coming at me, I wouldcome back at them. And implied

(31:53):
in the coming back at them isthe judgment, right? And the
story there's something wrongwith you horse that you are
trying to write me and and youdidn't also go into the other
side. I think this is thetightrope on one side of it is
the aggressive side. I'm goingto be angry at you. I'm going to

(32:15):
judge you. I'm going to thinkyou're bad or you didn't go into
the pity side, which is, oh,before horse, you poor baby, I'm
okay. You're okay, right? Youdidn't put either one of those.
You just energetically put upthe force field that said, not
coming in here and I see you.
Yeah. And that is a verydifficult balancing out humans.

(32:39):
So no back and forth, don't we?

Unknown (32:44):
Yes, so there's a lot of points there, so just quickly
even. So it wasn't so much notcoming in here as this is the
edges of me. This is me. Youknow, it was sort of like more
blowing up the balloon. Thething I always tell my students,

(33:07):
the people and clients, I guess,clients, not students, is be the
horse's rock, not the rabbithole. And by that, I mean just
what you were saying so andparticularly with the empathy
side, where you were saying, Oh,poor horse. Because a lot of and

(33:31):
a lot of us that want to healand help horses, a lot of rescue
service centers. They get a lotof, well, rescue centers get a
lot of damaged horses. And this,I'm going to make a really
important distinction of why therescue you and I work at is so

(33:51):
good, and there are others thatdon't feel have that same
quality of feel to them, andthank God for all rescue
centers, all rescue centers notmaking a judgment, but this is
very important to rescue center.
People don't lean in too much tothe story of where the horse

(34:12):
came from. Don't always be andthis is so easy to do. Don't be
sad for the horse. Listen, knowwhere you know know this, know
the story. But the trouble withthat energy is it? It weakens

(34:33):
them. It put too much of theenergy on the past, the negative
things that happened. Whathappens at rainn, a lot that I
love is you barely ever hear thesad stories. What you're hearing
is, you know, oh, they're, youknow, they're, they're

(34:57):
flourishing. This one, justlearn. This. This one is brave
enough to go through this door,this baby, you know, loud, the
blanket on for the first time.
It's all very, very forward,very positive, very moving
towards health, wellness of mindand body. And so on the empathy

(35:21):
side, we don't want to go downthe rabbit hole of the painful
story, the weakness, the anger,the you know, whatever that is,
and then on the the other side.
So where, where you feel ananimal wanting to use aggression

(35:43):
is to be reminded that it's onlyone form of what it's given to
defend itself in life. And soyou know that it's in a place of
feeling that it needs to respondthis way, React, React, the
animal reacts. So what we have achoice to do when we we can find

(36:08):
that stillness and groundednessis to take that moment and
respond instead of react, andthose differences are really
important. So Oh, and for allhorse people, and probably all
people to people, people to anyanimal, if you can know that,

(36:32):
that you know somebody coming atyou in anger and you wanting to
return in anger. That's twonervous systems that is picking
one choice on a path of I needto react to this. But that
energy is shared energy. So ifone instead, could even at least
just take the divorce theemotion from it, get the emotion

(36:58):
out of there, and then respondin a way, maybe if they need to
protect themselves or walk offor open the distance, but they
need to, if they can findanother way where they enter,
they can bring that energy down.
It's always, it's always theright, right,

Lynn (37:20):
yeah, well, that respond versus react distinction is
huge, and one of the things I'velearned on this journey is I
call it first thought. Secondthought. We almost always have
first thought, which is thereaction, because our nervous
systems kick in before we're inthe driver's seat. It just, it's

(37:41):
the that's why it's called theautonomic nervous system. It's
an automatic nervous system,right? We go. And this is true
with people as well. You know,with people to people
interactions as well as peopleto animal interactions. But if
we can recognize it for what itis, we can quickly then react, I
mean, then respond. So we cancome back and respond after if

(38:01):
we if we've learned to interruptit. And the thing I've also seen
have had to overcome myself andand mostly I'm coaching in
people environments, not horseenvironments, but recognizing
that that first thought is not amistake, it's just automatic. So
don't get Don't be hard onyourself for not getting it

(38:23):
right, right, right, not doingwhat you want. It's just quickly
put yourself back in thedriver's seat. Take the judgment
out, take the anger out, andrespond to what's occurring. And
what I like is, if you had notwith that particular horse been
able to respond effectively. Hecould have hurt you because he

(38:47):
was looking for a rock and hegot a rabbit. Mm, hmm, yes. And
so you, in a way, were a rocksaying, I am here, and he knew
better than to step in you,yeah, not out of anything from
anger, but because you said I amhere, and that was a form of
being present that didn'tinvolve sucking in or pushing

(39:08):
out.

Unknown (39:09):
Yeah, and the other amazing thing is, it's really
what he what he needed more,because it wasn't only a better
response for me to take, but itwas actually what he's seeking,
because he's seeking security.
So if I don't have a negativeresponse and I send both our

(39:29):
fighting energy up, and he'swanting to fight because he's,
he's feeling that he needs toprotect his himself. He's,
that's, defensive behavior if Idon't react like that. But I
increase this beautiful bubbleof I am a rock, and I'm still
offering you this peace. This iswhy I'm standing there. Is I

(39:51):
wanted to offer this horsepeace. I wanted to work with him
with cranial work, and I wantedto offer him peace. I. Yeah, and
then he was able to find it, Imean, to find to lie down and
take the rest that he needs,because he's not, you know. And
obviously, a horse, you know,with a lot of others in arena,

(40:12):
with a lot of people, unlessthey really need rest, is not
going to lie down. But whenthat's the what he does, you
know, that horse's nervoussystem is set too high always.
So this is that rock plusoffering peace is what that
horse needs. And if he had thatfor a couple of weeks, he'd be a

(40:33):
different creature.

Lynn (40:36):
Well, yeah, because horses need sleep, just like humans do.
Yes, you can if he's lived onhigh alert, yeah, not getting
effective sleep. Yeah, and weall know what happens to the
brain when we don't geteffective sleep, neurons don't
fire correctly. See

Unknown (40:50):
it all the time in horses, yeah, they the what,
especially in dysregulatedherds, which means that they
aren't operating well as a herd,so that all they can get a
reading off the environmentabout their safety. You'll have
more than one horse keepingwatch. They'll all be very hyper
vigilant and and you reallysense that. And then horses that

(41:13):
live alone, of course, don't getthe sleep they need. Horses that
have not been integrated andhave not learned to regulate off
other horses, they don't getproper sleep. So you see it. You
see it a lot. You see it a lot.

Lynn (41:30):
Yeah, and then, and then what you see, like you said, is
that dysregulated herd. It's notunlike dysregulated people. And
what, what came to mind as youwere describing your story about
the horse, is something I saw ina business meeting one day where
one of the attendees we were in,it was either New York City or

(41:51):
Washington, DC, or some placelike that, where I used to work
a lot, and one of the criticalmembers of a meeting we were
going to have was rather Late,coming in, maybe 1520 minutes
late because of some huge messup on the commute. And so all of
us in the meeting were sort ofannoyed, but knew there wasn't
anything she could do about it.
But once she got in the meeting,we did what most humans do,

(42:13):
which is, Let's get after it.
You know, we've lost 20 minutes.
Let's get to work and you know,because we're so very goal
oriented around horses. And whatwas so interesting is, of
course, I was very much one ofthe goal oriented, let's get
let's get done here. And thewoman who had sort of was over

(42:36):
the whole meeting the client whohad called it just paused when
we when it was clear that thewoman that had just come in was
in the room in body, but notmine. Yeah, her mind was still
on the disaster. She wasfumbling with a briefcase and
fumbling with a purse, and juststill kind of coming in a little

(42:56):
bit like a a little ball ofchaos. And she did this
beautiful move where she justacknowledged that. She said,
this really got to you, didn'tit? And it was done without
pity. It was done withoutjudgment. It was just an
acknowledgement of what is yes.
And what was so cool was towatch that as soon as that woman

(43:19):
felt seen and heard all thechaos dropped off of her right?
It was like flies falling off ofRight. Or, you know, it was just
bizarre how it just and then shewas present in the room because
someone else was present withwhat is, no judgment, no anger,
no pity, just what

Unknown (43:42):
is nailed it, yes, and I've

Lynn (43:46):
never forgotten it, because I wondered for you, for
you know, at the moment, I waslike, wow, that was a very
interesting not one I would hadmy repertoire at the time, but,
but clearly effective. And asI've learned a lot from you and
learned with the work we'redoing at rain and watching us
acknowledge with a horse what isright, well, at the same time

(44:07):
again, recognizing that they maybe keeping us from our goal,
right, what is is, and thesooner you acknowledge it, the
sooner you're back in harmony.
And that slow road is actuallythe fast road to the goal bingo,

Unknown (44:24):
because you know it. I don't know if you saw this
recently, and I don't know howmany of your guests are, cross
over to Warwick. And Warwick,Warwick Schiller's work, but
Warwick just recently had a poston non doing. And he was talking

(44:44):
about, you know, how standing ina ring arena with a horse and
the owner of the horse, he said,he likes to, you know, talk to
the crowds and everything in anarena. Well, the person comes in
with the the owner of the horsecomes in with a. Horse that's
got some kind of problem goingon in there. You know, he lets
them walk, try to walk theirhorse around. And the horse is,

(45:06):
of course, digging. And, youknow, there's a lot of eyes on
the horse, and a lot of, youknow, these poor animals are
just picking up on on everybody,all these eyes. It must feel
very predator, like staring downinto the arena. And of course,
the horse is dancing and feelinghis nervous system and the owner

(45:27):
in the way. And could beincredibly kind, because
probably everybody that putssomething on Warwick is really,
you know, after all, would loveto get along better with their
horse. So they're in all theways they know. They're trying
to control the horse, with therope with a little bit of
stroking, a little bit ofjiggling, maybe moment of
backing. And this, that and theother thing. Oh, we'll walk a

(45:49):
circle. Walk another circle.
Well, then they hand off thehorse to Warwick, and he
immediately lets a huge amountof slack in his rope. Just let's
go stands with the horse. Horsegoes to the end of the line. He
redirects it with he likes touse a flag, I would just hold
the rope, because that will beenough of a change. So the horse

(46:09):
hits the end of the rope andturns. And then Warwick just
watches, just like justacknowledges. And what he's
really doing is he's trulyseeing that horse. So he's
seeing, you know, the amount oftension and the amount of
startle and the amount of whatthe horse is taking in, and he's
understanding another beingsitting there, and he's, you

(46:32):
know, he's, he's feeling thevibrations and the nerves and
then, but then, but then, as weall know, you know, work is
studied presence, and he and he,and he's checked in with
himself, and he's the rock. He'snot going down. Oh, you know,
this horse is standing here withall these people staring at it.
He's not doing that. He's notsaying, Well, I must, you know,

(46:54):
I need to do something tocontrol the horse. He's doing
absolutely nothing, but goingback to being the rock and
having done what you just said,this acknowledgement, right,
acknowledgement that you thewoman with the, you know, the
purse flinging around and stoleher mind in the subway and
feeling rushed and toacknowledge That woman that's,

(47:17):
you know, calmly, didn't, didn'tlet go of her anger that the
meeting was starting late, andthat everybody must be, you
know, just kind of in adifferent let go of all that
says to the woman boy that thatreally got to you, I see you.
That's that same, I see you. Andthen went right back to just
being okay with everything.

(47:42):
Those are the key. Those are thekeys. And what you just said,
that you noted happened in thatmeeting, is exactly what people
need to do. When a horse ishigh, we want to so much control
it. You know, it's a big animal.
Get a hold of the end of therope. The way you really help is
that full acknowledgement. Sothat energy, that that

(48:06):
dysregulated feeling that theother being is hanging onto can
be fully let go of, and then theenergy can return back towards
that centered rock.

Lynn (48:25):
Yeah, it helps them find you. Called it finding peace.
But it's it's saying everythingis okay, not by placating, by
being yes and acknowledging itis there. I see that, yeah, and
in today's society, especiallyif you go through social media,
you know, there's this term thatI still hadn't I saw the movie

(48:48):
gaslighting, but I didn'tunderstand the term for a long
time. But it's that, it's thatincongruity that says you're not
seeing what I'm seeing in frontof my eyes. And you know, in the
movie, the light is dimming, andshe says to her husband, the
light is dimming. He goes, No,it's not. It's all in your mind.
It's all in your head. And yetI'm experiencing this thing. And

(49:09):
to me, a horse has to feel sortof the incongruity of us when we
say every all the time, yeah,when they can say, No, it's not,
because over there is this andover there is that. I went to
the barn the other day, and itwas, it was fascinating to see
how we brought the horse back,but it was a reining horse that
I ride regularly, really steady,Eddie. But on this particular

(49:31):
day, they were moving hay on atractor down the aisle where we
normally walk. So we werefollowing that. Then that the
mowing was going on, and themowing seemed to be wherever we
were. That's where the mowerwas. And then we got to the end
of the arena, and there was a, Ithought it was birds, but there
was this squealing happening. Welater discovered a pig in the

(49:52):
pen at the end of the arena,that's just outside the other
arena was stuck, and this horsewas not going to accept. Yeah,
the answer, everything's fine. Icould have applied to him all
day long, but he's like, No, Iam seeing these things, right?
And exactly amazing whathappened as we acknowledged what
was going on and and again, thatdidn't tell him he didn't have

(50:15):
to to work or, you know, right?
Or whatever, but it was like,and I hear you, I see it, yeah,
yeah. It's, yes, amazing, and,and from the truth is, where you
get the trust,

Unknown (50:29):
right? And the other thing there for a rider is very
difficult, is that you're onthis horse, and you're feeling
the energy through his body, andhe's big, and he can, and he
likes to, you know, run fromthings, and you're going to be
able to, you know, want to staywith him. Oh,

Lynn (50:45):
yeah, he made some amazing cutting books, by the way. And
he makes amazing

Unknown (50:52):
stay with him. But you and you can't lie about where
your nervous system is no sothat's one incongruity that
horses pick up on strongly andthe riders don't realize,
because they're trying to saywith their mind or their hand or

(51:13):
their reign, it's okay, andthey're, you know, yanking and
pushing or the stroking padding,but it's got or the even just
where their seat hits thesaddle, so they might as well
not try. The real message iscoming through, because you're
electric under there, and howyou want to react too, right?
You're you're like, you don'thave to have the same reasons

(51:37):
for the fear as the horse does,but that fear is amplified
through the two of your system,so there's so much energy there
that's right, and so that's whyit's so good to work on your
meditation skills out of thesaddle as well. But to even
remember some of the tricks thatyou have is throw yourself back

(52:01):
into the body, so it will be oneof your senses, like feel skin
on skin, listen for the birds. Imean, these are funny moments to
do that. But pick a spot, pick aspot, or on the ground or down
the arena to stare at for aminute and orient your body
there. But you have to do thesethings to get your you have to

(52:27):
get authentically to your bodyfirst. So you have, because
you're not going to get themessage to the horse. You know,
to do anything different untilyou you can be some even if it's
a little pebble instead of agreat big rock, but you have to
start to try to find a way tosay to your it's almost like

(52:47):
you're with two horses. Okay?
Because your nervous system isjust like another horse. It is
free from your until you get ahold of your mind. That's your
reign on your nervous system,and the only way that you can do
that is get your mind to be inthe present moment. Because in
the present moment, nothing,until you hit the ground, is

(53:07):
actually really happening.
Nothing, nothing is happening.
So if you can bring your bodyback, it will convince your
nervous system you can come downin the nervous system, the
animal, which is a neuroceptor,will feel your nervous system,
and then you can start to holdspace. But you have to. When
you're on horseback, you'vealready matched their listening.

(53:28):
You're already there with them.
If you, if you're on the ground,you match where they are to make
sure that they see that you'refully with them. So that would
be why. I mean by matching isit's the firing of your mirror
neurons. So for us to look at ahorse and just ask yourself

(53:52):
intellectually, well, you know,this is a way to start how much
tension is in this horse's body.
He has a worried expression onhis face, I see that his tail is
rather rigid. So when, when youdo these things, you're feeding
that your conscious brain islooking the horse over, and
you're picking up informationfor the brain. But what is

(54:13):
happening underneath that isyour mirror neurons, are these
little cells that will respond.
They'll they ignite whetheryou're actually doing an action
or just seeing an action. So theexample that everybody has is if
you have two rats in a cage, andyou shock one of the rats, the

(54:35):
other one will jump too. It'sbecause they there. You can
these are these neurons thatallow you empathy. And when that
one sees that he actually feelsthe feels the jolt, because he's
picking up on it. So if, if weare looking at another creature,
and with our eyes, we start tofire those and we pick up on

(54:59):
their. State. So it's like, it'sthe way that that language can
be commuted, communicatedbetween our two nervous systems.
So once you've said, Oh, I see,you know, I see where you are,
and then I go back toconcentrate on me bring the
rock. But so when you're in thesaddle, you already, obviously

(55:20):
you're touching, you know, youguys are right together in your
nervous system. So you can just,if you can anchor yours for a
second, pay attention to theanimal. You can, you can, you
can help get yourselves out ofthose situations.

Lynn (55:33):
Yeah, it ended up being one of the best rides I've ever
had. Wonderful. Yeah, it didhelp that one of the women
realized what was going on,where we had several riders, and
she went in and took care of thepig, so the squealing went away.
Yeah, horses aren't huge fans ofpigs sometimes. Yeah. And this
horse, by the way, I forgot tomention it has one eye, so yeah,
the shock, the shying away, wasalways happening on, you know,

(55:56):
from blindside to the seeingside and but what, what was so
critical to me in that story wasthe ability for me to stay
present but not lie to him thatthere was nothing going on,
right? They're mowing the hay.
Guy is going the pig, right? Andwe're going to continue like
being present in this moment.

(56:19):
And when I go back to thejourney I've had, I mean, that
would have been just a house ofhorrors for me. Yeah, yeah,
years ago, and I would not havebeen on that horse. There would
not have been a great ride,right? Wouldn't have been
anything. There would have beenme going back to the bar and
going, well, this is not the dayI'm going to Yes, yes. But
because of what I've learnedwith you and with working with a
variety of people over the time,my story is well known out there

(56:43):
because of those things I'velearned, it doesn't ruin the
day, and that's what I feellike. Is the big takeaway,
whether you're working withhorses or working with people,
is there's a lot going on in theworld that requires us to
acknowledge it. The the stuff isgoing to happen. There's not,
there's not an insulated worldthat says I can get everything

(57:05):
done because the waters arecalm. The waters are not calm.
No, they're never going to becalm. No. And so how do we sort
of sail or surf, or whateveryour metaphor is, those rough
waters, and do it in a waythat's real. And I think that's
what I love about your work themost, is it's very real. You

(57:25):
know, it's acknowledging, andit's, it's being that kind of
steady state in that rough ofwater, I think is so huge, like
that horse, the story justtelling about that horse, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And I'm sure he wasgrateful for it as well. I

Unknown (57:40):
think so, yeah, I really think so. I think so. And
I think, I don't think anybodylikes going through life having
to be that, you know, defensive.
And if you could feel morecomfortable that you didn't have
to do that, it would feel nice.

Lynn (58:00):
It would feel nice. Well, so, so when, when you think
about, I want to go back to whatwe started with, when you like
that passage and of where youwere, and you were sort of
talking about that freedom thatwe have as seven year olds. And
I it's not uncommon for me toask, by the way, when I'm

(58:23):
working with clients that aresort of trying to figure out
either their second half orwhere they've gone off their
path, you know how to get backon their path? It is not
uncommon for me to say, what didyou love to do when you were
seven? Seems to be the mostimportant age, because that's
age at which we get, sort of oursocialization is kind of
complete, as one of my coteachers, once of a self

(58:47):
awareness program once said, youcan take almost any seven or
eight year old and drop them inthe world and they know how to
figure out how to be in theYeah, yeah, develop those
skills. But the question I oftensay is, what did it What was it
that you wanted to be well,yeah, look at where you are now.

(59:08):
Where is it that what? What isit that you most want to have
people know about being herenow? And where are you hoping to
take this knowledge that you'regaining? And it's really not
knowledge, it's wisdom.

Unknown (59:22):
Okay, so I absolutely love this question, and I think
I'm going to start it furtherback, because I thought you were
going to ask me, and I wasgetting so excited that
question. Then when I what Iwanted to what I wanted to do or
be, when I was seven, was across between Pippy long

(59:43):
stockings and Dr Doolittle.

Lynn (59:47):
Oh my gosh, you really are that now I know it. Gosh, when
you say those two things, I'mlike, you could not be more
those two things. I know it. So

Unknown (59:57):
that's how I know I got on my authentic path. But I was
off of it, and now I'm back onit, and it makes me laugh so
hard when I thought back andrealize that

Lynn (01:00:11):
that is so accurate.
Because you you know, what'sinteresting is watching you'd be
Dr Doolittle speaking with theanimals. I, you know, I've done
some animal communication myselfand worked with animal
communicators. Anna 20, who's areally, has been on this podcast
and and Anna, the way she getscommunications is just so vivid,

(01:00:32):
and it's almost like aconversation. But that doesn't
mean that's how all of us getanimal and watching you be Dr
Doolittle, I'm curious, how doyou get communication, because I
totally see you getting it.

Unknown (01:00:49):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. And sometimes I think it's
really just in that languagethat I'm trying to teach others
right now. It's, it's, you findit in that stillness and in that
awareness, and you, yeah, it's,it's, it feels not very

(01:01:18):
complicated beyond those twothings. It's becoming very still
and very aware and very open. Sonot that Rick Rubin, that he has
a quote Rick Rubin in his book,the creative act. Well, I love

(01:01:38):
that book has a quote aboutsustaining disbelief as part of
his description of listening.
And I think that's hugelyimportant. So you may not know
why you know something or but itcame into your mind so quick,
you know, you didn't use yourthinking brain. And then I would
go with it, whether it's animage or a thought or not a

(01:02:01):
knowing, like this horse doesn'tlike that or he needs this next.
It won't really be words. Itwon't be an image. Sometimes it
is, but it's just in the beingopen, and if it comes without a
lot of pause, and isn't itthere? It's there for a reason,

(01:02:23):
you know? And so I really thinkthat my answer would be it's in
stillness and awareness. Thoseare, those are the keys for me.
But it I feel very confidentthat I know who an animal is.
And that I am having acommunication with them when I

(01:02:47):
work with

Lynn (01:02:52):
them. The thing for me that's remarkable, as I've been
on this journey, is howindividual each horse is, oh,
gosh, yes. And I, as a youngperson, didn't ever get that
knowledge, like I saw them allas kind of the same, yeah. I

(01:03:12):
remember asking somebody, youknow, something, she said,
something about the horselistening to her. Something I
said, How can you tell when ahorse is listening to you like
it didn't even dawn on me? Yeah,I'm rarest to say. And now, for
example, I think about thehorses we have at rain, and how
each one of them, right, is justthis unique individual and have

(01:03:37):
different needs. And sometimes ii especially will notice the
horses that we don't pay as muchattention to because they're
they're not on the front burner.
You know, a lot of rescuehorses, and some are on the
front burner, particularly rightnow, the Mustangs, as we get to
the Mustang classic, and some ofthe other horses, I swear
they're saying to me, why do Inot get that kind of attention?

(01:04:01):
How do I get in the yes,

Unknown (01:04:06):
do, that's what I but that's what I mean. If you pick
up on that so strongly, it's,it's, it's a true communication.
And they are, but you don't godown the rabbit hole. Their time
will come. You know, that'sexactly

Lynn (01:04:18):
right, right? And actually, what I usually will
say is, you know, I'm payingattention to you right now. Do
you not notice I was broken yourneck? Yeah, yeah, no. And then
it's almost like, they're like,Oh yeah, okay, I got it, yeah.

Unknown (01:04:32):
So, so that's interesting, because when I was
little, like seven, I remembergetting to a point, maybe seven,
eight or starting to get amazedthat people didn't see that,
didn't see that they had so muchpersonality, and didn't see that

(01:04:56):
animals have so muchpersonality, and it's. And each
one is such an individual, and Ithink that's my true purpose in
life, and always has been, is tobe that liaison between the
animal world and the human worldfor that exact purpose,

(01:05:19):
everything I've studied,everything I've done, has kind
of aligned with that. And when Iwas in maybe when I just
finished college, I startedpainting. I've always loved to
draw animals, but I startedpainting animals and presenting

(01:05:40):
their stories with paintings. Alot of more true animals that
had done amazing things andstuff. And I would put up these,
I had these art exhibitions thatwere it was called considering
animals, and it was to helppeople see that see. And so my

(01:06:01):
work, in whatever way I've beendoing it, is always in my
outlook on life, and being withanimals or presenting them to
people has always been with thatpurpose in mind is to have
people understand so how clearlythat there's somebody inside. It
didn't matter what this skulllooks like, you know, there's,

(01:06:23):
there's an individual in there,yeah,

Lynn (01:06:26):
wow. Well, and that, one of the confusing things is that
individual, because they aretalking, if you will, they
communicating is a better,better word. They're doing it
more energetically than they arevocally that, that, you know,
humans can be animated, and youcan see two people sitting, if

(01:06:47):
you somebody watched our, youknow, zoom right now where we're
having, you know, you can kindof see the animation, and we're
engaging with each other thisway, but, but if you pay
attention, horses engage withwith each other without making
eye contact with each other, Andwithout nodding their heads, and
without, you know, walkingalong, holding hands or whatever
there's it's a more invisiblestyle of communication. And so

(01:07:09):
that means having to learn toplay in the unseen world.

Unknown (01:07:12):
Yes, and and, amazingly enough, the more time you really
micro observe and make sureyou're very present, so that
it's, you know, being unfilteredthrough, not really using your,
you know, neural cortex so much,but just kind of being in the

(01:07:33):
presence and awareness ofanimals with an open mind, you'd
be amazed how Much of thatcommunication you'll feel too
like, you know, the affectioneven amongst them. While I was
working on this craniosacralwork, that first day, I had this

(01:07:55):
horse of so sore, absolutelyeverywhere, sore, everywhere in
its body. And it had, there wasanother old horse being worked
on, and he he looked like hewasn't quite as sore, but they
were all the horses were out,and this little horse that I was
working on, the halter didn'tfit properly, and I could almost
feel migraine on this horse, andhad big stains from where it

(01:08:18):
just had constant diarrhea Inthe back and kept shifting
because there was pain and, youknow, more than one leg. And so
I had taken the halter off andjust put it on the thicker part
of the neck so it wasn't whereall the nerves were in the face
while I was working on her. Andso she she kept kind of taking
this step and then another stepslowly, and then hanging out in

(01:08:41):
another step, another stepslowly, and she wanted to creep
up right next to this other oldhorse. And somewhere in there, I
just got this communication. Isshe said, I'm in love with him,
and that's the only horse thatmakes me feel better. And so she
wanted to have recession rightthere. And as soon as I allowed
her to stand there, just droppedinto this just most beautiful

(01:09:04):
relaxation and and the otherhorse responded by also. His
head dropped too. And I justfelt it so strongly. And I
didn't work with her on the lastday, but I saw her doing the
same thing, trying to migrateaway over next to this one, to
share that feeling right therewith that horse, but it just
becomes so clear and sogrounded, and you just, you

(01:09:26):
know, it even causes a littlechuckle of real humor. So, you
know, you know, you just know itit's you just know it's real.
You just feel it is yes,

Lynn (01:09:36):
you know, when I was hosing down the horse, I was
telling you about the day we hadthe pig event. There was this
moment with him that was pure. Idon't know if it was gratitude
or affection or what, but, butthere was this connection
between the two of us, sort oflike, thank you. It was like he
it was just such a palpablething, not necessarily visible,

(01:09:58):
but it was so strong. Him. Ifinished, you know, hosing him
off and get ready to go back tohis buddies. And this is the
horse. He's amazing. When I gotake him out of the pasture
where he is with his with hisbuddies, he just, like, walks
out from them and sticks hishead in the halter. I literally
just sticks his nose in, yeah,you know, and is like, I just

(01:10:21):
said, you want to go play. Andhe comes over, I've never issued
because, guess where I learnedhow to do that with you? And he
was obviously, you know, alreadythere to some extent. But those
moments that pass through, andthen you can just really see
them for who they are, that theythey care for each other, they
care for us. You know, there's a

Unknown (01:10:42):
character, yes, yeah, yeah,

Lynn (01:10:45):
yeah. So I when I was reading your bio, of course, I
met you through rain, and so Ihaven't heard much about your
history, but I was looking thatyou have worked with all kinds
of horses, like everything fromHunter jumpers and so forth to
race horses. And I would love tohear how your work, or how you
worked with those kind ofhorses, especially the race
horses in the past. Yeah,

Unknown (01:11:04):
it was so much more traditionally. So I had, when I
was in college, in the summers,I would go work at the track, so
I had done some galloping ofhorses, and my father actually
had a couple of race horses, andwe had a trainer, so I got my

(01:11:26):
assistant trainer's licenseworking with those horses. Yeah,
so galloping race horses, my dadwas a polo player, so I was at
the polo field as a littlelittle kid, and had this little
racket going, I got a wholebunch of other little kids, and

(01:11:47):
I would assign them to variouspolo players, and they would
walk the ponies in between theChuckers to help cool off the
horses. So I, you know, and Iwould help my dad train polo
ponies. And then later on, Itrained polo ponies for other
people, because, you know, I hadjust grown up doing it. Then my

(01:12:09):
father was master of fox hounds,so I grew up working with the
hounds. And when we went downand worked, we moved to down to
Massachusetts, I became a staffmember of the hunt and took the
hounds out. So yeah, a lot of alot of different disciplines in

(01:12:30):
the horse world. I think I wasalways kind to horses, but, you
know, I didn't question some ofthe things that we had learned
that were just sort oftraditional. And I have a really
different outlook on all of itnow, you know, it's it just

(01:12:52):
evolves, evolves what you know.
Well,

Lynn (01:12:56):
you you went with what you knew at the time. Yeah, yeah.
Was there a life defining momentfor you, where you said, the way
I am I have done things is notthe way I want to do them in the
future.

Unknown (01:13:09):
Or was it more Yes, yes and yes and no, yes and no, I
You can always tell that I'veloved animals since I was seven,
and was connected with them. Sothere was no, never any
harshness. But I think what kindof, what really woke me up was,

(01:13:34):
I mean, and so, so I would saythis is sort of, you know, a far
end of the spectrum, you know,like a, like a subtle shift, but
feels huge in my mind and likemy orientation around it and
what it, you know. So whathappened is, I so I had a mother

(01:13:58):
that, you know, she didn't, shedidn't mind my riding. And, you
know, I grew up in a in a familythat we grew up on a horse farm,
but she, she was much morewanting me to go to college and
be she was, she was really veryconcerned socially, which I
never have been my life. She waskind of wanting to, she had this

(01:14:19):
kind of a Jackie O image, reallyhard for me to and I'm this,
like little tomboy that loveshorses, and, you know, doesn't
want to be anybody special, andwould love to, you know, have
nobody kind of assess abackground on me of any kind.
And my mother wanted me to go tofinishing school in Switzerland,

(01:14:45):
and, you know, wanted me tospeak French and Italian and
live in Europe and whatever,whatever. So she and she was the
strongest member of our familyin the sense that she was. You
know, she had agendas foreverybody. And so when I was 16,

(01:15:08):
she wanted me to go over toFrance and study in France, so I
would be fluent in French. Andso I was shipped off. And while
I was there, she got sick, andshe ended up having really bad
cancer that eventually got inher spine and and so I came home

(01:15:32):
for her death. I actually was wewere also never supposed to get
sick, so I was not made awarethat of her whole cancer
journey, and was just told byone of my two brothers, who had
also not known until she wasabout to die. And I got a
message saying, if you want tosee your mother alive, you

(01:15:54):
better get home. So I justpacked my bags from a year in
France and came home and spentabout two days there before she
died. And so after she died, Ikind of, for a very long time,
because she'd had a reallystrong personality, wanted to

(01:16:14):
please her, and tried to figureout, you know, what it was going
to do next, because I was justabout to get out of high school,
and so I I thought, well, Ibetter go to college, and you
know, and I was always trying tofind a career, but I just
didn't. I just did not likesitting at a desk. I really

(01:16:37):
liked working with animals, butI tried to work with animals
from a point of academia,because I thought that at least
would sit better with her. So II worked in the wild, wildlife
research field andinternationally. And then, you
know, it just, that's why it wasthe path next door and and, you

(01:16:59):
know, I did well. I got paperspublished in in that but it just
Yeah, it's not the same to me.
And so I'd kind of throughthrough college, and it was sort
of urban. I ended up, oh, and mydad got remarried, and when his
my stepmother really didn't wantme around the barn. So I ended
up, at first I boarded a horse,and then I just decided I better

(01:17:22):
not have a horse right now. Andso I got out of horses, which
was really weird for me. And sowhen I was turning 40, I was
like, Nope, I can't be without ahorse anymore. And so well that
my husband, at the time, was inAlaska climbing, and one night
he called up and and I said,Guess what? He said, What? And I

(01:17:45):
said, I bought a horse. So Ibought, I bought a horse. And
since I had trained horses allmy life, up until then, I didn't
think of anything of getting ayoung one, and I was just going
to train it up and sell it as aas a hunt, a fox hunting horse,
and but this horse that I endedup getting, she was four years

(01:18:07):
old, and she was Frisian andPercheron, and she had some
health. She had some nervedamage to her back that we did
not understand at the time, andwhen she was young, once, she
acted silly and she jumped up inthe air, and she didn't land on
her feet, which is odd mosthorses can and she landed,

(01:18:31):
flipped on her side, and I hadgone up with her and came down,
and my arms were the first thingto hit the ground With both me,
the weight of me and the horseand I, I destroyed one of my I,
like, unhitched ulnar nerve, andtore the epicondyla out of one
of my arms. And so that, thatflip really changed things for

(01:18:57):
me, because I that was the firsttime I'd had to have a lot of
operations on an arm aroundsomething that a horse had
caused. And I never in my entirelife been scared riding. And all
of a sudden I had some fearriding. And it, it, it, it was
something I had to work backthrough and so fast forward to

(01:19:20):
move down here. Got anotherhorse out of the kill pen, and
he was spooky crazy, and I justcouldn't find the same center I
used to have. And so I had to goon a bit of my own journey to re

(01:19:42):
figure out fear, because I, youknow, I know it sets horses off,
and that's how I got intomeditation and the whole other
side of things. Well. Then I hada little horse, after I kind of
got myself straightened out, whowas a rescue of the state of

(01:20:07):
Georgia, and he taught me therest of I couldn't he was just
locked in fear, frozen in fear,and I could see the trauma in
him. And I started studyingsomatic sensing and trauma in
humans, because I couldn't findit in the literature of horses
stuff. And now I'm connected,and I realize a lot of people

(01:20:27):
were on their own journey in thesame direction, as Warwick says,
as so many say, it's one horsethat led you on this path of
discovery, and I still have mydiscovery horse, and yeah, they
that's amazing. And so healinghim and healing myself put me on
this journey, I think, where ofwhere I am today. And that was

(01:20:50):
the big switch, where it becamemore more clear about the
nervous system, polyvagaltheory, you know, all of that,
but then also the more, the morefascinating side of of stillness
in this, what that communicationI used to have as a seven year

(01:21:13):
old was, and now how you get itback as an adult? Because I
think you do lose it when allthe, you know, the training
comes on to us, and we becomeless the animal we live, closer
to being like animals. Whenwe're, we're kids with these
fresh minds, and then we're,we're taught to name everything

(01:21:34):
and to name emotions and to acta certain way and to, you know,
animals don't talk. And we're,we learn all these things that
these divisions and theseboundaries, and then we have to,
sort of like Picasso did withhis artwork, you you learn it,
to unlearn it, and then, andthen you go into a place where

(01:21:55):
you learn it on a on a deeperlevel, or you can connect it to
what you knew as a kid,

Lynn (01:22:01):
yeah, well, and I'm hearing there was almost like
three life defining moments,because one is you lived without
horses, and that that's prettydefining when you realize I have
to have them in my life. Thenyou had the life defining fall.
And I think a lot of horsepeople have had some kind of
moment where that was, and thenyou had the horse that showed

(01:22:26):
you everything by being totallyfrozen in fear. And it was like,
you know, I find it interestingwhen I look at different things
that happened in my life, howmultiple things will conspire to
reach a certain point. We'restarting the process of building

(01:22:48):
a house over on mystic waters.
And a lot of people have askedus, What was the life defining
moment, you know? What was thedecision point? And when I look
at it, it's like, oh, there'sbeen 10 years of them. Mm, hmm,
right. And any one of them couldhave been the moment. Yeah,
right, but, but, but there's,it's almost like, when you make

(01:23:10):
the final call, it's like, whatwas the most obvious thing in
the world, right? But it wasn'tthat in each given moment, there
was a stack of them happening,yeah, yeah. So, you know, I hear
you had a stack of themhappening, so there were a lot
of moments,

Unknown (01:23:28):
yeah. Well, I guess the the biggest, the biggest one for
me was when I haven't even namedI was living between here and
there. So when Bernie and Ibecame a couple, he was down in
North Carolina, and I was stillin Massachusetts, and I had a

(01:23:51):
farm of my own, and he has hisfarm here. And for a while, you
know, I would try to keep myfarm, and then I would drive
back down here, and I had an olddog at the time, and it's the
only thing left on my farm,because I de farmed it, and it's
this lovely place on the saltmarsh in Essex, Massachusetts,

(01:24:11):
and just beautiful, one of thoseproperties that you're just
Like, just the spot licking outthe sunsets and everything,
you'd think this is a once in alifetime opportunity just to be
in a spot like this, justgorgeous and and I loved it

(01:24:33):
dearly. But that sort of goingback and forth, back and forth,
back and forth, is you feel likeyou drop into one life for a
little while, and then you dropinto another life for a little
while, and then one day Berniewas in think he was on his trip.

(01:24:58):
Oh, it wasn't. Yeah, no, yeah,it was his trip across the
country, the one he wrote thebook about. And I was sitting,
it was a beautiful sunsetevening, and looking out at the
water, and I was wearingBernie's, one of Bernie's hats,
and I started hearing this voicejust saying, just let go. Just

(01:25:23):
let go. And it meant that Ineeded to let go, of trying to
hold on to everything and and tosort of just jump in and join
into this one life, to this onechannel. And it was such a
defining evening, because afterthat, I was able, the next

(01:25:46):
morning, I called a realtor,started going to empty this
place out, and I was ready toput it on the market. Wow. And I
did. And when, when the we wentto move out and I moved. I moved
from a whole farmhouse, a wholefarm, into Bernie's little

(01:26:09):
cabin, which is 400 square feet.
I love it, but small. It's tiny.
I took nothing, so I gave all ofmy stuff away, my family,
antiques, everything,everything. Just gave everything
away. And when I left, we hadthe smallest of U hauls
trailers, and I had one paintingthat had hung in my house since

(01:26:30):
I've been a child, and mybicycle, my kayak and my books
and nothing else in it. Wedidn't even fill it. It was the
smallest U haul and we came downhere, and I have never regretted
it since. And when I gave thekey over, Bernie cried, but I
was, I was just completelyready. You know, it's a lovely

(01:26:51):
memory, but I it was such a whenyou say moments, because that
was absolute, definite, I'mready to go like it just and

Lynn (01:27:00):
you're glowing. People who are listening can't see what I
can see, but I'm seeing thezoom, and it's like, it's on
your face. You're absolutelyradiant, talking about that
moment.

Unknown (01:27:10):
And yeah, because it was so completely right, because
it allowed, sometimes we hold onto old stuff for protection, but
you need to push out to thecenter of the, you know, just
out into the pool and leave it.
And it is, it allowed me tofinish that transition, where,
again, I've been able to comeback to Pippi long stockings

(01:27:34):
and, you know, and Mr.
Doolittle, yeah. So that wasperfect for me. It really was
amazing.

Lynn (01:27:45):
Now, you mentioned Bernie, and of course, he was for the
listeners who are listening willhave heard him on the podcast
immediately before this one. AndI would be remiss if I don't
ask, what is it like to be onthe other side of someone who
takes off across the countrywith Two Mules. And that's not

(01:28:08):
the only time he's done it, butwe'll talk about the two mules
to triumph story, which he wrotethe book about, and I thought
about you a lot as I was readingthat book and and you know the
moments where my husband hasbeen on long travels, you know,
been across, you know, he's beenwhere he was out of
communication for a while. Whatwas it like to see that and to

(01:28:33):
be on the other side of that,especially knowing that maybe
these two mules were not alwayslike the most, like well
behaved. Stay off

Unknown (01:28:41):
the road mule, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so I would say
the good thing is, when I metBernie, I met him in the
capacity of that he was thetraveler that he is, and that he
you know, when Bernie and Ifound each other, I had answered

(01:29:04):
a ad for he was selling a mulethat had walked across America.
And so I wrote him and said hewas looking for a home for this
mule or for someone to to buyit, and then he was selling the
pony too. They had been when hecame back from his trip. They

(01:29:26):
had been living at a 80 year oldlady's pony farm, but she was
getting too old to take care ofthem, and she told Bernie they
had to get gone. And so he waslooking for the next solution
for them. And he unproudlydecided that he would try to
sell them because he was takingcare of his ill parents and he

(01:29:47):
had no home of his own, and hejust kind of thought no place to
do this. And so he put an ad anda horse online thing for these
two animals. And. Am, and I saw,I said, Who would walk across
the country with their animalsand then just put them up for
sale? And even, what seemed evenworse to me is he put them up

(01:30:09):
for sale and not together afterthey'd done that. And he said
the moment, he was not entirelyproud, but anyway, so I wrote
him and said, Look, if you know,if you want to give me your
animals, I will promise you thatthey will never be separated

(01:30:32):
from each other. They can liveout their lives on my farm. And
I sent him pictures of it, and Ishowed him the kind of care I
took of animals, and I showedhim my own animals, and my
friends laughed, and they said,You'll never hear from that guy.
And so about two or three weekslater, I'd forgotten about it. I

(01:30:53):
got an email, and he would said,I'm in Tasmania. He was riding
his bicycle across Tasmania, andhe said, I'm in an internet
cafe. I should be home inanother month, and when I get
home, I think that would workwell. So he decided, because he
did want him to stay together.
So so he he and I made a deal,and when he came back, we
talked, and he decided he wasgoing to send his animals up to

(01:31:16):
live with me. So that's how Imet him. Is through these
animals that have walked acrossAmerica. I love this. I love and
so I already knew. So I read hisbook. I knew that the that, I
mean, mostly, I read his book tofigure out what, you know, who I
was receiving as these twoanimals. And then, you know, the
mule was not easy. He had PTSDwas worse than the one that said

(01:31:42):
it was more, more of a crazymule than the one he took next.
But anyway, he and I would haveto correspond about, oh, well,
the mule really doesn't like tohave its feet trimmed and so
forth. So he would tell me howto tie it in a knot like a
pretzel. And I'd say, No, I'mnot going to do that. And then
I'd figure out my own way to toget the animal to have it let me

(01:32:05):
work on its feet and have themworked on and anyway, we stayed
in touch. And then he washeading off to Newfoundland with
his with a mule that we stillhave named Paulie. And so when
they came through, they visited.
And that's the start of thestory that I read this morning.
That contraption that camethrough was burning on his way

(01:32:29):
up to Newfoundland. And so theystopped and visited with us and
our animals, and he saw his he'sgot to visit woody Maggie, who
had been on his first trip. Andso then he went off on his
travels. And so the whole time Ihad known Bernie, or my getting

(01:32:52):
to know Bernie, and as Berniebecame a friend, he was already
a traveler. And so I knew thatthat's, you know, what one would
be in for. And then for me, I amreally like my time by myself at
times, so that doesn't bother meso much. But the trip that was a

(01:33:16):
little rocky for us was the onewhen he he sailed as a crew on a
on a little wooden boat that wasgoing down to South Georgia,
which is off Antarctica, andwould just write an emails
things like, the only reason youwear a life jacket down here is
so they can find The body in thewater. Great, that didn't so

(01:33:42):
that didn't help much. But then,then when they were in and and
Bernie, likes the old schooltravel where you aren't really
reachable, you know, like hejust really, I think cell phones
have felt to him a little bit ofa and all the spot satellite

(01:34:05):
like, I think when he he goesoff, he likes the idea that
you're just you're just gone,that you have to rely on
yourself and the adventure andeverything, I think, having done
most of his trips without aspouse, and I think that's why
He didn't get to marry till hewas over 50, is because it's
really hard to find and maintaina relationship if you do things

(01:34:28):
like that, and even from thattension of just the other
person's going to have reactionsto, you know, you being lost or
missing or anything, or, youknow, the fact that you know, if
something happens to Bernie,with the animals I'm responsible
for getting off to, you know,Ohio or Nevada, or wherever the

(01:34:54):
crash is, and finding picking upwhatever pieces are left, and
having. To do something withthat. Those kinds of things
didn't used to go along with youwhen you're single, right? So
you could just kind of go andnobody's, you know, he wouldn't
have people that wouldnecessarily worry about him. And

(01:35:16):
so when they were on that boatin Antarctica, they got blown
into a rock in a gale, and itpunched a hole in the boat, and
they had to illegally haul upright next to Shackleton's grave

(01:35:37):
in South Georgia and go diggingaround in the old whaling scrap
yard and find a piece of copperand some nails to tingle a patch
onto the boat, and then theysailed it with just a tingled
patch 3000 miles to SouthAfrica. From there, holy moly.

(01:36:01):
And that made me nervous. Iended up, you know, finding his
satellite, found the hispositioning off of some kind of,
there's something that takespositions on all the boats. And
so the ones that aren'tregistered, though, are just

(01:36:22):
appear to be the yachts that arenot numbered. And since he's was
a very little boat, and thereisn't much traffic down there,
and knowing where he might be inthat crossing, I could kind of
maybe tell which boat it wouldbe. But that wasn't really fun.
I gotta say, that wasn't joyful

Lynn (01:36:42):
statement to know that somebody's gonna settle a very
long way over rough seas on aboat with a hole in it. That's
barely Yeah.

Unknown (01:36:50):
That was not very that was the least joyful of all of
that. And then with the othertrip, I would just be busy doing
my stuff, and just confident hewould pop up again. And the more
you know Bernie, and the more hepops up again, the more faith
you have in that, that he willjust pop up again. Well,

Lynn (01:37:12):
he does have this he does have this time. I think of
getting back, but I know, youknow, when I read two mules to
triumph, and there were a fewmoments where you had to meet up
with him, you would have mailedsomething ahead of time with the
cool little drawings on theboxes away, yes, yeah, you know,
this is for the mule guy cominginto this town. Yeah, that's
right, you know, then knowingthat he was there, like when you

(01:37:33):
got there and you found him, youknow, just knowing the way I am,
I've been a nervous wreck. Didhe make it there? Did he decide
to go somewhere else, did hisback up. And, you know, he's
lost out there somewhere, allthose kind of questions which
would be objections of my ownfears and for myself, but still
would have been made it hard. SoI was curious how it was to be
on the other side of that.

Unknown (01:37:55):
Yeah. I mean, I think over time, over time has gotten
better, and over time, I thinkhe's been a real teacher for me,
because he is so unfocused onwhat might happen. I mean, just
isn't, doesn't enter his brain.
It's just a whole differentwiring. I mean, sometimes it's
amusing. You'll like watch allthe animals escape through an

(01:38:17):
open gate or something likethat. But neurotic me when, no,
that's gonna happen. No, he

Lynn (01:38:29):
does not pretend like he's like, I'll deal with what's
happening. I'm not gonna makesomething new happen with my
brain. Oh, whatever comes out.

Unknown (01:38:36):
So he's, he's, he's very good for me. He's good,
yeah, he's very

Lynn (01:38:41):
well. It's fascinating because he expressed the same
thing that you just said, youguys have taught each other a
lot. And I think he he expressedthat you had taught him a lot,
you know, in his working withhis mules and horses and so
forth. And as we wrap and sortof start bringing this
particular journey togetherhome. I'd be curious. What is it

(01:39:05):
that you would like for peoplewho deal with animals of all
kinds, what would you most wantthem to learn and know as they
go forward on their journey withtheir animals?

Unknown (01:39:19):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's really seeing that
there's a being inside of therethat is trying to communicate
something always to you, whetherit's that shy look they get when

(01:39:41):
they tilt slightly away fromyou. That's just saying too much
pressure. Slow down, just amoment, just the littlest pause,
the more you can see that andthe reaction back from it, the
more you're going to realizethat it's a two way
communication street that youhave this huge. A opportunity to
delve into it's funny.

Lynn (01:40:04):
You've taught me that, especially that head moving
away. And what I have just beenblown away with is I never keep
chasing the horse anymore. Afterthat, there was a time when I'd
be like, Oh, you want to moveyour cheek over here. I'll
follow your cheek to the ends ofthe earth so I can scratch it.
And the minute I see that, evensometimes, before they move

(01:40:25):
away. Now, because I catch itearlier, they almost always turn
back into you. That's right,very rare, right? They don't
turn back into you. And nowyou're in a give and take, yeah,
event, and you know, it's just,it's really pretty hysterical,
because we were, we were havinga what we call spa days at rain
the other day. And I was, I washolding one of our previously

(01:40:48):
feral horses for someone else togroom. And she came, just diving
in with the with the curry comb,without ever breeding the horse,
without ever, you know, and andthe horse was responding
accordingly. And I said, I said,Hey. I said, Have you noticed
how she's responding? And shesays, Yeah, I'm trying to figure

(01:41:08):
that out. And I said, Well, Isaid, Let's just make this like
a human I said, Imagine I cameup to you and or that you're on
a date with somebody, and you'retrying Yes, and y'all haven't
even said hi yet. And she goes,Oh, my God, that is what we're
doing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
Just take a moment and make surethat you see her, yeah, and that
she can see that you see her.

(01:41:29):
And it changed everything. Itwas so interesting because
she's, like, I never thought ofthat. But yeah, know you how
many times I'm in places where Isee people chasing, yeah,
horse's face around. Like, notvery Pat, you.

Julia (01:41:42):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, that's that, to some
degree,

Lynn (01:41:45):
that's what dogs are asking for. You know, my dog
will chase you around until youpet her. Yeah. But a horse, on
the other hand, might turn hishead away and say, Hey, give me
a second here, right? I'll grinit. And as

Unknown (01:41:57):
you're learning at siege one. So some dog might
say, No, I'm too shy for that.
Or Absolutely, or I would ratheryou just talk to that person for
a while, while I observe youfrom over here, and then I'm
going to come over and say hi,yeah, but give me a minute.
Yeah, exactly, and, and that'swhat I mean. They're all saying
something, and they're sayingthey're like you and I, they're
just saying what you know, whatthey feel,

Lynn (01:42:18):
yeah. And we, if we can start paying attention, it seems
to me, as I'm as I'm hearing youand I think about this
conversation, when we payattention to them, we're also
paying attention to ourselves,and that could be a road back to
that lost child from seven yearsOld that knew her path and needs

(01:42:42):
a way back.

Unknown (01:42:44):
Yeah, pay attention to yourself. Pay attention to
people too, because they oftenwill say words that aren't
really how they feel. And if youcan see more, you help them
more. Yeah,

Lynn (01:42:59):
and isn't that? You know that's been my mission, and I
really am grateful for you forhaving this conversation about
finding our way back. Because ifthere's nothing else, that's my
mission, especially at thisstage of my life, it's the
people I'm working with. I wantthem to be able to find their
way back to whatever theirversion is. Not everybody's
going to be Pippi Longstockingand Dr, no, all of us, all of us

(01:43:22):
had something at seven. Mm, hmm,we wanted to be Yep. And it's
really amazing to come back toit, yeah.

Unknown (01:43:29):
I mean, maybe, you know, maybe there was a little
kid that that wanted to be aballerina, and she danced for
two years, and then she had toforget about all that, and you
could just take a dance classagain. I mean, just reconnect,
find, allow yourself thewhatever that was that you you
loved, because you probablystill love it. The passions stay

(01:43:53):
with us. I think they did

Lynn (01:43:55):
another I had, I had a client in one of my workshops
who was a musician, and andeight to go back to it. And I
asked him why he hadn't he goeswell, because that's no kind of
life for a family man. And Isaid, What do you mean? Playing
guitar is no life for a familyman. And he had actually jumped
in his mind that if he was goingto play guitar, he was going to

(01:44:18):
join a band, and if he joinedthe band, it meant they were
going to be successful, and thenthey were going to be

Julia (01:44:22):
on the road. And he yeah, that's that going down those
rabbit holes.

Lynn (01:44:26):
And I said, I said, I just mentioned that you should play
girl, you know Band, Guitar, Itell you to join a band. Yeah.
Can you do that at home? And hesaid, I never, it never even
dawned on me, right? Could do itfor anything other than to try
to be the next, wow, easy talkor whatever. Yeah. So it was
just so mind blowing for him tothink, Oh, I could do this

(01:44:49):
differently, but I'm still doingthe thing I love. And it's true
for painting or, you know,writing,

Julia (01:44:55):
anything that's exactly right.

Lynn (01:44:57):
We're all, I think at some what is. Some way born creative.
And it's like, find your wayback to your passion, because
you had it. Mm, hmm. I love thismessage. It lights me up, as I
can see, it lights youup too. Yeah,
tell me. Tell or not, tell me,because I know how to find you.
Tell. Tell the listeners howthey can find you. I know you're

(01:45:19):
blogging regularly,

Unknown (01:45:21):
yeah, well, actually, I'm remiss. I haven't blogged
for a while. But if you'relooking more generally, it would
be the considering animals.comif you're a horse person, it
would be two stepway.com

Lynn (01:45:36):
Okay, so you have two websites, considering
animals.com and two stepway.comand and do you give clinics? Or

Unknown (01:45:46):
yep, I am starting to look at giving clinics, so I am
open to that. I workindividually with horses. I've
done several different things. Ihave a woman who's coming out
here right now because she'sscared of horses. So I sometimes
help a person without horses. Ihad a person come on a retreat

(01:46:10):
here who wanted to learn aboutcommunication with animals, but
she has only a rabbit. So it'sit's sort of evolving in its
directions, but it really is allwork. I mean, if you're having a
problem with your horse or dog,definitely can give me a call or
get in touch. Mostly, I workwith horses. And yeah, that's

(01:46:34):
That's it. I am thinking ofputting together some clinics.
And yeah, I'm just kind ofletting it blow with the wind
and also trying to balance it.
You're all about balance withtime for my own animals and time
to sit in this beautifulproperty and in my really
peaceful, wonderful life. Idon't want to unbalance that as

(01:46:58):
well.

Lynn (01:47:02):
Well, I think that's brilliant, and something you
would be teaching the people youwork with as well. Yeah. So
well. Thank you. JuliaCarpenter, so much for being
here, and for those of youlistening, if you enjoyed this
podcast, please share it withyour friends. Write it on the
podcast apps. This is the bestway for us to get the news out
there, and I'd really appreciateyou doing that. If you're

(01:47:23):
interested in hearing more fromme, you can always find me by
subscribing to my newsletter.
You can find that at Lynncarnes.com it's called the
coaching digest, and it's whereI publish these podcasts as well
as my own blog. So I hope youenjoyed this podcast with Julia
Carpenter, and we will see youon the next one. Thank you for
listening to the creativespirits unleash podcast. I

(01:47:44):
started this podcast because Iwas having these great
conversations, and I wanted toshare them with others. I'm
always learning in theseconversations, and I wanted to
share that kind of learning withyou. Now what I need to hear
from you is what you want moreof and what you want less of. I
really want these podcasts to bea value for the listeners. Also,
if you happen to know someonewho you think might love them,

(01:48:07):
please share the podcast and, ofcourse, subscribe and rate it on
the different apps that you'reusing, because that's how others
will find it. Now, I hope you goand do something very fun today.
You.

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#94 Julia Carpenter: The Two Step Way

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