#97 Stevie Delahunt: Balancing Fear and Confidence in Endurance Sports

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed, where we talk
about the dilemmas of balancingwork and life and now here's
your host, Lynn Carnes,

Lynn (00:19):
Welcome to the Creative Spirits Unleashed Podcast. I'm
Lynn Carnes, your host. My guestfor this episode is Stevie
Delahunt, returning for thethird time we spoke about this
time last year after shefinished the endurance race
known as Tevis, 100 mileendurance ride on the western
states trail in California. Thisride is legendary, with this

(00:43):
year, only 39% of the entrantscompleting the full race. Stevie
was one of those riders, alongwith two other riders competing
on her horses. She had a totalof five horses in the race, and
the other two horses made it tomile 94 and by the way, she was
riding with two juniors who weretwo young women under the age of

(01:04):
18. It's just an incrediblefeat, especially considering
that her focus was actually moreon process than on getting the
buckle, which is sort of theprize you get at the end of the
race. This year, though, she notonly finished Tevis, she
followed that the next weekendby finishing a half Iron Man
Triathlon. We spent a fair bitof time in this podcast talking

(01:25):
about what it takes to finishtwo such grueling races. We went
pretty deep, including speakingabout Stevie's theory that all
truths are paradoxes, how tomanage your doubts and outs. I
love that idea. The value ofhaving process versus outcome
goals and just so many morenuances and distinctions around

(01:47):
having a strong mindset. I'vebeen out to Oregon to ride with
Stevie four times, and each timeI go, I gain more strength in my
mental tools, but I also havefun learn a lot, and can say
this Stevie Delahunt walks hertalk. Here's what Stevie says
about herself. Stevie Delahuntgraduated Michigan State

(02:09):
University with two degrees andan intent to pursue law school
at Georgetown University, whereshe had been accepted, she
switched gears and went toFrench pastry School of Chicago
to learn how to do wedding cakesand set up shop in the Windy
City. While in Chicago, shelearned the world's toughest
horse race, the Mongol Derby,and she again, let her life

(02:30):
guide her into constant change.
On the other side ofsuccessfully completing the
Mongol Derby, she took a jobwith a startup company in Rhode
Island and learned coding andmarketing for the online
business, the endeavor and theworld of startups, gave her
strong leadership skills and aneducation in business models she
applied to starting her secondand current business of horse
related retreats. Stevie'scurrent business encompasses

(02:53):
several several facets of thehorse world, including beginner
riding instruction, advancedboot camp style retreats for
riders wishing to participate indifficult horse riding, survival
races around the world,horseshoeing and endurance
racing with horses, whichincludes doing the world's
toughest one day 100 mile horserace, the Tevis cup. Stevie
believes that adversity is anecessary part of life, and

(03:17):
being prepared for adversity, aswell as creating it for oneself,
is essential and is a tool sheuses in teaching both horses and
humans, both young and old.
Well, a lot of that describeswhat I've done with Stevie, and
I will, as I said, she walks hertalk. So I do hope you enjoy
this episode with StevieDelahunt. Alright, Stevie

(03:41):
Delahunt, welcome to thecreative spirits unleashed
podcast.

Stevie (03:45):
Thanks for having me back again. Round three. I love

Lynn (03:48):
having you back. I was thinking today. This is number
three. Yeah, we did this about ayear ago after you had completed
Tevis, and that's that plus ahalf Iron Man prompted this
second one, but I want to startwith that because, start with
Tevis because, you know, it's afairly well known race, and

(04:09):
you've just completed it, butjust maybe start with giving,
like, your high level view ofwhat the race was like this
time. And then I'd love to diveinto the mindset things that you
worked on. Because I thinksometimes when we finish
something like the Tevis, whereit's seen by everybody, it's in

(04:29):
the unseen, that is what makesus get there. So with that
intro, I'm going to let you takeit away. Sure.

Stevie (04:37):
So for those of you who don't know, and this is maybe
the first podcast you'd listenbecause I feel like synonymous
with me talking on a podcast.
Tevis usually comes up becausewe happen to bring a large
amount of horses every yearTevis. So Tevis is the world's
toughest 100 mile horse race.
All sanctioned 100 mileendurance horse races around the

(04:57):
world have 24 hours to complete.
Uh, they have holds along theway where the horses get vet
checked and have mandatory timethat actually counts against
your finish time. So forexample, if you have an hour
hold that takes away from your24 hours to complete. So if the
race starts at 5:15am on aSaturday, it ends at 515 on a
Sunday. And that is universal.

(05:21):
However, Tevis is a super tough,100 mile race, and it's tough
because it has 22,000 feet, youheard that, right? 22,000 feet
of descent and 14,000 ofincline, which means you're
almost constantly going up ordown. And having just recently
done it again and done it withmy friend Carmen, who has
actually ridden the Tevis everytime we rented horses. So this

(05:43):
was her fifth Tevis. The two ofus were like, do you remember it
being this steep, like every wewere just like, do you remember
this? And the trail does change,like, a tiny bit every year,
depending on what trails aresafest across and what trail
works been done. But we were,yeah, we were laughing about it,
that it felt like rockier andsteeper than than before they

(06:06):
definitely we also had the riverwas much higher. There's a river
crossing at about like 90 miles,91 miles in, and this year was
super high. So I'll have to,like, tell the crossing story as
well. It's kind of funny. Butyeah, we were just like this.
This tougher than we thought itwas before. I think so. So,
yeah, it's, it's the world'stoughest 100 mile horse race.

(06:28):
We've been super lucky andgotten a little bit of
notoriety. Because while wedon't go to compete, we go to
complete. We have had asuccessful we finished five out
of five horses in 2023 wefinished four out of four last
year when we did the podcastrecapping that. And then this
year, we brought five horsesagain, and we actually got all

(06:51):
five to mile 94 and we finishedthree. So I was very happy the
really successful results in thelast three years. And I've
totally gone away from the mainquestion by just like, sort of
focusing here on what Tevis is.
Yeah, well,

Lynn (07:09):
that's good, because I think you're right. A lot of
people listening might not evenknow what it is. I didn't, but
that's that's great context forwhat the what's to come. And in
you know that the two horsesthat you talked about that made
it tonight, mile 94 let's justtalk about what that takes.
That's so many miles, and one ofthose horses had never been to

(07:33):
Tevis. Is that right? Yeah,

Stevie (07:35):
that's correct. So the one horse that had never been to
Tevis, mind you, this year, twoof the two of the five of us
were 15 year old junior riders,which means, as a junior, anyone
under, oh, man, actually, Ithink it's 18 or a certain
amount of miles, has to beaccompanied by an adult, which

(07:57):
is a great goal to have, but itcan Make riding a race like
Tevis really complex of beingIt's called being sponsored when
you're a junior rider ridingwith an adult, like, if the
adult rider gets pulled then youhave to, like, transfer over to
another adult to be able to getyour completion. So we kind of
like safeguarded, and had threeadults and two juniors with the
idea that somebody wouldprobably make it through as an

(08:19):
adult rider to sponsor those twogirls. And one of the 15 year
old girls was riding one. Imean, they were all riding our
horses, but one of those horseswas a horse that we renamed full
send, because that's hispersonality. Gives 150% to
everything he does. And send wasa horse that was given to us

(08:40):
actually about a year and a halfbefore Tevis and was a free
horse that had been surrenderedby several trainers for
different behavioral issues, ofwhich at our farm, he really
never exhibited any of those,which was kind of amazing, and
he just seemed To embraceendurance fully and and love

(09:00):
doing it, and so that was kindof an amazing feat. The only
reason he even got pulled atmile 94 was that he had
scratched his leg going acrossone of the river crossings. And
just had, like, a slightoffness. Even had, like, the
vets, like, voted on it, like itwasn't an immediate pull, like
they represented several times,and like, took a while for them

(09:23):
to make the decision to pullhim, but they were just very
conscientious of making surethat every horse across the
finish line this year, like, hada very high chance of you can
get pulled at the finish ofTevis. That's something people
don't know, but your horse mustbe, quote, unquote, fit to
continue. So at this last vetcheck at mile 94 they were

(09:43):
really stringent and making surethat every horse that crossed
under the banner being like,nationally televised, through
YouTube channels, that theylooked good. They just wanted to
really, like emphasize horsewelfare, which I can totally
stand behind. You know, I feelpretty good about you. 94 miles,
even though that doesn't comewith a buckle, and that's still
a DNF did not finish. It's stillpretty amazing feat, and we know

(10:07):
he could have done it. So thatwas it was good enough for me,
to be honest, and the girl thatthe 15 year old girl that was
riding him, she's done quite alot of riding on him all season,
and just really excited fortheir journey and all the stuff
that they got to accomplishtogether.

Lynn (10:24):
And I'm thinking, you know, the thing I keep thinking
about is that at mile 94 whattime was it like, 430 or three
or four in the morning?

Stevie (10:34):
Yeah, around around, then you have to leave out of
there by 4am like, there's like,cut offs for coming in, and also
cut offs for leaving. And theyhave those dual cut offs Because
oftentimes, I was saying there'slike the two one hour holds in
Tevis, which is very low for 100miles, but again, very difficult
race. So they're trying to giveyou 22 hours of ride time. But

(10:54):
oftentimes it's up to the ridersto make decisions to hold
themselves longer. So like, youcould get into lower it was
called lower lower quarry vetcheck at 94 and you could
technically get in at three andstay there and let your horse
eat and drink and not leave till4am so like that's why they have
to cut off some both ends there,which is a strategic decision.

(11:18):
And we did a lot of things likethat, like waiting in the river.
We have kind of a game plan thatwe follow every year and
includes, like, taking quite abit of time at the river, at
swinging bridge if we have a ortaking more time at Devil's
Thumb, which is once you comeout of these crazy canyons right
before the chicken hawk orDeadwood vet check. I think
that's it. Yeah. So there'slike, all these, like, strategic

(11:40):
ways to ride Tavis, depending onwhat your goal is.

Lynn (11:45):
The the thing I was thinking about is, when it's
decision time of three in themorning, the way my brain works
is, Well, isn't that bedtime isthere, is there a way I could
maybe go to bed?

Stevie (11:56):
Oh my gosh, yeah. You know that was, that was the so
this is a really interestingaspect, speaking about, like,
nighttime riding, I have neverso I like to follow Ultra
running. I've only done 150 Krace. I'm planning a 50 miler
coming up. But essentially, mylife being endurance horses
trends towards me not having thetime to truly train to be an

(12:18):
ultra runner. But I love, like,the science and understanding of
how Ultra running works forhumans, because it's really
transferable to horses. So I'malways following, following that
world and that ideology. Oh,man, I had a point here

Lynn (12:36):
talking about going to sleep, so I was thinking about
sleep.

Stevie (12:40):
Yes, thank you. That real, that helped, that gave me,
that gave me the fuel I needed.
So I in that I've alwayslistened to ultra runners
talking about hallucinating outon the trail because they're
awake for so long, and I'venever had that happen in 100
mile race again, like if you'restarting at 515 for Tevis, Tevis
being like the most sleep lossthat I experienced in a horse

(13:04):
race. We always get up at like3am so that we're right on time,
and then you're up again untillike 515 like at least 530 the
next day, if not six. And in allthose and all these years of
doing Tevis and crewing it andeverything, I've never
hallucinated. Never had thatexperience. And this year, all
five of us hallucinated. And wehallucinated. I wouldn't know if

(13:26):
say necessarily hallucinationsare quite the right word for
what we all experience, but wewould like be seeing things out
of our peripheral vision. And wefound out that we were like
seeing the same things, whichwas like, Carmen was riding in
front of me on hero, and shehappened to see it. She was
like, she was saying one of thegirls in the back, Jocelyn

(13:48):
Terry, who was riding Sonic, ourArabian cross, she was like, can
you tell where the trail isgoing? Because, like, back here,
I can't tell, and I'm getting,like, seasick. And Carmen's
like, No, I can't tell, becauseyou can't really have a headlamp
on at Tevis, and it's totallylike by moonlight, and up to the
horse and like to Carmen and Iwere in the front. It was like,
Carmen and then myself, we bothcouldn't tell if the trail would

(14:10):
be going up, down, side to side.
Like, very strange experience ofthe trail. And we were saying
that, and Carmen's like, yeah. Imean, I just saw an old woman
that turned out to be leaves onthe side of the trail. And I go,
Carmen, that's insane. I justsaw the same old woman like This
is bizarre. So what also seemscrazy is there's this amazing

(14:34):
guy who's been on WarwickSchiller podcast, and who I've
gone and studied with, and whois a body worker, and his name
is Tom Mays, and he's been oursecret weapon the last couple of
years. I always have Tom comeand work on the horses right
before Tevis when we're in coolCalifornia at my friend's place.
And this year, I said, you know,we're trying to take 215 year

(14:56):
old girls through this like thetrail is really dangerous. Can
you just call. In all the horsesancestors, and call in all the
guides, please. That's like, allI want, like, you can work on
them, but like, at the end, wedid, like a whole, like
ceremonial moment of like,calling in ancestors and calling
in guides to keep us safe. Andthat was what was so bizarre, is

(15:17):
none of us has ever hallucinatedbefore, and all five of us did
on the ride, which was bizarre.
And including, including, wethought this pony, we weren't
sure if he was going to crossthe river, and he ended up
crossing the river. And Alina,who was riding him, said that
when they got to the river, shesaw these horses run up to the
river like with her, and thendisappear like super strange

(15:37):
experience. So that was like

Lynn (15:44):
Tony, did you know?
Because I've been with himfacing a river crossing, and he
went one way, but not the other.
So he did cross the river,though that's been Yeah,

Stevie (15:56):
so I was thinking in my head, I so right before we had
him crossing rivers pretty well,and then two weeks before Tavis,
he suddenly was like, I'm notcrossing rivers anymore. And
like, Alina went out, and Alinaand I went out and practiced
with him on river crossings. Andman, we found out he can jump
like he was clearing like eightfeet of river without touching

(16:18):
it. Finally, like, Okay, well,you know, he's going to be tired
at 91 miles. Hopefully he'lljust cross. And I was like all
the other river crossings, heprobably can jump over. And this
hero is super aware of how muchwater crossing there is in
Devis. I mean, there must be,like, at least 15 streams that
you cross, and he jumped most ofthem, one of them, she had to

(16:41):
get off and walk across, andthen he jumped, and, like, ran
into her, and they both kind offell, which was where he
scratched his leg. And luckily,she was okay, um, but I was
thinking, man, if, if he's gonnaget pulled I really hope it's
before this river crossing,because I had like, all these
imagination or likepossibilities that, like, what
if he panics and dumps her, andthen, like, we're chasing this

(17:04):
pony, and then we won't make thecut offs? And, like, what will
be my strategy? And I was like,You know what I'll do? I'll
cross with Carmen. I'll giveCarmen Alex, or Alexander
Hamilton, the horse I'm riding.
I'll get I'll have her hold him,and I can wade back across
because it's usually, like,chest deep, which I think this
year, it was actually waydeeper. But I was like, I can
wait across, and I can grab him,and then she can, like, ride and

(17:27):
ask him to go across, because heleads pretty well. So that was,
like, my backup plan. But I wasjust, you know, had all these
plans in my head. And then I waslike, All right, at this point,
you've got an idea, like, stopworrying about it. I was like,
there's going to be no like, Ican sit here and ruminate on
this for miles and miles andhours and hours ahead of time. I
was like, we'll just see whathappens. And then when we got up
to the river, I just told her tokeep your reins tight. If he

(17:50):
gets in just he's going toprobably panic a little, but
just send him straight towardsthe other bank. And we had three
riders in front of us thatweren't in our group, and they
got into the river, and the onehorse starts rearing up, because
immediately, as it got in, itwas a shorter horse, the water
went over its back. It was thatdeep. Oh my gosh, yeah,
panicked. And I was like, Ohcrap, the river is really high.

(18:13):
When Sen gets in, it's gonna goover all of him. And we get,
like, hero gets into the river.
And then Alex and we had anorder, like, our riding order
for most of the day was hero,Alex, Chuck Norris. These are
the horses names, full send. Andthen Sonic, and we got in. And I

(18:37):
just said, like, keep his noseright on Chuck's bum so that he
doesn't really see what'shappening and he'll just get in.
And that's exactly whathappened. He got in, like,
realized, like, the water, like,came up over his back, and he
just started, like, porpoising.
And because he startedpanicking, all the horses in
front, like, started panicking,like, Why is he running? Like,
what? What's attacking him? Solike, all our horses were, like,

(18:58):
dolphining across this, like,Deep River. And so we're all
hanging on and like, the fullsand is like ping ponging into
all of us, like across this deepriver. And Alina is amazing, and
she's just laughing, and she'slike, sorry, I'm sorry. I'm
sorry, because we had all beenlike, slap silly, exhausted up

(19:18):
until this point. And like, kindof talking about our
hallucinations, our shared andseparate hallucinations that we
were having. And so she's like,giggling like crazy. And I'm
like, hang on, hang on. And we,like, all get to the other side,
and like, Jocelyn and Sonic.
Sonic is just like, such asteady Eddie, 18 year old
Arabian Appaloosa, cross, doneBeen there. Done that. He was

(19:39):
like, standing on the bank withJocelyn, and they just, like,
calmly crossed, like, behind allof this chaos, and we get to the
other side, and we've passed tothese other three horses in the
river. I have no idea, but itfeels like it's like, it's a
pretty significant like, notonly deep but wide crossing, and
it's. And they they do thisreally cool thing where they

(20:02):
drop glow sticks, because it'snot straight across. You
actually have to do like an Sshape, like a backwards S shape,
to cross on the highest part ofthe river, like following sand
bars. And so we've passed theseother horses in the river,
because it's like 200 yardsacross, or something crazy like
that. We get to the other side,just start, like, whooping,

(20:24):
because we were, like, soexcited that we all made it. But
it was, it was funny and and itwas interesting that we felt
like Lena felt like she sawhorses coming down with her to
the river, especially after wehad this experience of asking
Tom to call in their ancestors.

Lynn (20:41):
Well, that do you know that I want to go back. I love
this story, by the way, and Ihave two questions. One I have
to ask immediately, which is, atthat depth, are the horses still
able to keep their feet on theground, or are they kind of
having to swim you across? Oh,

Stevie (20:55):
they it was deep. But for I was on Alex, who's 15 one,
and he was able to stand and,like, push off the bottom. I
think even, like, send, who's 14one, he can stand on his hind
legs and, like, push. So he waslike, kind of porpoising. So I
think it was like, I wouldguess, like, four something,

(21:17):
feet deep, five feet deep. Butyeah, it just seemed a lot
deeper than we've experienced.
In the past.

Lynn (21:24):
That's, that's, I've never crossed across a lot of rivers,
and I've never crossed one thatdeep with a horse. That's, that
sounds daunting, and yet, in theend, when you're on the other
side and whooping it up, itsounds fun. Yeah. But back to
the thing with Tom and the factthat, did you say all five of
you saw the same thing?

Stevie (21:46):
We were all hallucinating on as far as I
know, like the girls, theyounger girls, were seeing, like
horses in the trees and shapes.
And I just kind of confirmedwith everyone, like, yeah, you
guys were hallucinating, right?
And it wasn't for me, at least,it didn't feel like I was seeing
stuff that was not there. It waslike my brain was seeing those

(22:08):
shapes in the dark and likemaking them out be something,
but weirdly they were. My brainwas making them out to be the
same things that other peoplewere saying too well. And
that's,

Lynn (22:17):
that was the question I had, because it dawned on me, I
was wondering if it was anhallucination or if it was
something more, because you, atleast, more than one of you
shared it, because that'shappened with me before in
working with people here, youknow, occasionally, like, and
it'll be a flash, but we'll allsee the same thing. Like, it's

(22:41):
hard to describe, but it'll belike, Well, is it a
hallucination? If we all justsaw it, even though it just
disappeared, like we sawsomething come and go, Brian and
it's it, you know? The you haveto start by acknowledging that
what we see and what we cantouch isn't the only things that
are real, you know. But I justwonder if it's, if it's just a

(23:01):
question, if it's ahallucination, or if it's you
just happen to share the same,you know, experience of
watching, perhaps somebody youknow, watching over you.

Stevie (23:15):
Yeah. I mean, you know, the science part of my brain
says, well, the leaves probablydid have, like, a significant
shape, and then our brains havethis pattern recognition, and it
looked like a human, and, youknow, it probably did have it,
you know, like we have all seentrees that look like something
and or clouds that look likesomething, right? And all, most
humans will look at it and seethe same thing. So

(23:38):
scientifically, it could just bethe pattern recognition in the
brain. But I don't know how tojust explain what Alina felt she
was seeing. And to be honest,out of all five of us, she's
probably the most attuned,energetically and like peaceful,
whole human being. So mostlikely, she would be more
spiritually attuned to seesomething than the rest of us

(24:00):
would be. So I didn't see asradical hallucinations as she
did, but I did find that it wasinteresting that, like Carmen
and I both thought we saw likean old woman by the trail and
right, like that same bit ofleaves. So I have no idea.

Lynn (24:18):
I you know, this is I have that same sort of skeptical,
scientific mind. And we have ahorse at rain rescue who I have
been feeling for several monthslike she was talking to me, and
she's just got a very specificway about her, and it feels like
she's, you know, it just feelslike she's very much

(24:39):
communicating one of the thingsshe communicates to me, by the
way, is I want to be your horse.
And I keep telling her I'm notgoing to have a horse. But we
had somebody else at the rescueduring a workshop last week. And
what was interesting is, aftershe fell in love with this horse
and started working with her,she said, Boy, does she talk a
lot. And then we compared No.

(24:59):
And the horse was saying kind ofthe same thing to both of us,
and that's when I'm like, Okay,so are we both just crazy in the
same way, or is it possible thatthere's something happening
here? You know, how do I how doI maintain my sanity?

Stevie (25:16):
Well, doesn't that seem so much more, you know, that's
this is to me, so we're allanimals like humans are animals.
It drives me crazy when peopletalk about anthropomorphization,
because we are animals, andthere was a time before we had
human language that we allcommunicated, and how I think

(25:36):
that that's much less crazy tothink horses are speaking to us
and to each other, then, theneven the idea of these ancestral
hallucinations that we'reexperiencing. And I've found the
same thing, like I've found,like many riders come and visit
us and do our boot camps, andthey'll all have the same
experience of certain horses.
Like this horse talks a lotlike, well, how come every

(25:58):
single person feels that thisone horse speaks a lot like when
we had Captain America with us.
He was same thing to everyone.
Everyone, really, he's a veryclear speaker. Kristen, my
friend who owns him now, was,like, this horse is the, like,
most clear communicator. So,like, obviously something's
going on. Like, none of us, youknow, I A lot of times this
comes independently observed ofinformation beforehand. And what

(26:22):
I mean by that is, like, even ifI didn't tell anyone that
Captain speaks a lot, that's thehorse, immediately they'd be
like, This horse is like talkingEnglish in my head. I'm like,
yeah. So I think that, I thinkthat there's no question to me
that horses can speak,especially because A, people
seem to get the same messages,and B, they have the same

(26:42):
experience of it. Like CaptainAmerica to a lot of different
people coming to visit, waslike, had very clear, concise
messages that came up with themwhen they were around him. And
then, like Alex, AlexanderHamilton, our horse, he comes to
a lot of our friends in dreams,which is kind of nuts. How come
it's always him and it's oncepeople have written him, and

(27:03):
they always are getting thesemessages through dreams from
him, which is reallyinteresting, too. And those have
all independent of knowing thatother people had that
experience.

Lynn (27:13):
Wow, see, that's the thing is, those are all really
compelling reasons to say. Youknow, it's just worth keeping
our minds open for what is notnecessarily acknowledged
necessarily widely, but justalmost has to be true,

Stevie (27:32):
right? And, and like, what? What is true, right? Like,
I was thinking back to this,like, idea of the woman, and
like, Okay, say it is a patternof leaves that does look this
way and our brain interpreted itthis way, then who's to say that
the leaves are not in thatformation? To give us that
pattern recognition, to give usthis sign, to make us feel held

(27:52):
and observed by the universe inthis experience, like, like,
just because there's science toexplain it doesn't mean it's
less magical. It almost, in mymind, seems more magical, you
know, like, just those are stillbeautiful and amazing. We know
why they happen with prismaticlike, light effects. But like,
why does that take away from themagic of it? I feel like all

(28:13):
magic can be explained and like,that's why I have, like, a side
I love quantum physics, becausethat seems to me like the
explanation of magic.

Lynn (28:24):
It really, it really does, like the one of my favorite
experiments is the one with cat,where things are tricky one
time, right? And I've actuallyused that from my own mindset at
times when, like, when my dadwas having surgery, and I was
leading a workshop while it washappening, and a part of me

(28:49):
wanted to, like, be in touchwith the surgery the whole time,
but I couldn't be, because I wascommitted to do this other
thing, right. And thatexperiment allowed me to say,
You know what, no matter what isactually happening, I get to
choose that he everything isfine while I'm doing this thing,
even if something else didhappen, it didn't, but if it

(29:10):
had, it didn't matter, becauseas long as I didn't know any
different, he was fine.

Stevie (29:16):
Yeah, that's a really great I mean, that's a great
hack to worrying, right? Becauseworrying is essentially useless,
like sometimes it may prompt usto make a plan ahead of time,
but after it served its purpose,it really can be sent away.
There's just no, no point inworrying.

Lynn (29:32):
Yeah, I've come to, I've really come to that conclusion.
It's like, Okay, is thereanything I can do about it right
now? No, then everything is fineuntil it's not. And what that
brings into is another piece ofthis. And I feel like this is
very relevant to the kind ofwork you do, which is the idea
of our imagination. Because, youknow, like somebody could say

(29:54):
you were just imagining thewoman in the tree, but worrying
is also imagining the worst. Mm.
Yes, we are imagining all theways things can go wrong.
Sometimes, a lot of times wecall that fear, but it's really
your imagination. And I thinkhorses do that too. It's like,
there the thing that's going tohappen is not nearly as bad as

(30:14):
the thing they're imagining isgoing to happen, like crossing
the river, you know, right?

Stevie (30:21):
Yeah, I've had, you know, like, I'll sit down and
ask myself, like, why I'm havinganxiety. So for everyone who
doesn't know, I lead boot campsand lease horses for endurance
rides. So that often means thatI am not only riding the horse
that I'm on, which, in the pastcouple years has often been
Alexander Hamilton, a horsethat's not always easy to
manage, and then I'm also ridinglike in responsibility, or like

(30:47):
perceived responsibility forfour to five other horses that
are with me, and they're riders,so I'm always taking people out
on trails and competing inendurance races. So of course,
my mind and my nervous systemare something I'm constantly
trying to keep in check, andsometimes I'm better at it, and
sometimes I'm not. I would say,by nature, I'm a highly anxious

(31:08):
person, and I've been doing thework on that, and some years I
seem to manage that better thanothers. And this has been like a
highly anxious year for me, forwhatever reason, somewhat
indiscernible. And I've had,like, a lot of, really, as I put
it hard, one miles like in thatmy entire, like, 50 miles spent

(31:29):
with Alex on a race have havenot been easy. And so I
recognize, and of course, that'sthe thing. Like doing the work,
you can sometimes recognize whatthe problem is, but it doesn't
mean that you can solve that,solve for that, or improve it.
And I'm realizing that myanxiety and, like, imagining
what could go wrong as often,like, way worse than when it

(31:51):
actually goes wrong, becauseI've imagined things going
wrong, and sometimes theyhappen. And like, when they
happen, well, it's, like,peaceful about it, because,
like, it just is what it is inthe way forward is very clear,
like, when shit is hitting thefan, very clear what you need to
do, just like, make thesituation better. And so I,
like, always laugh, because I'mlike, Okay, well, like, quote,

(32:13):
unquote, the worst has happened,and now I'm experiencing it, and
then now it's just actionable.
So it's actually worse. You knowthey say anxiety is like
suffering the reality twice.
Like, if you have anxiety aboutsituation, you suffer all the
way up until it happens, andthen you suffer it when it
happens. But in fact, the thetime leading up to the event
that you're worried about can belike worse, because it's a much

(32:36):
longer period of time. Andthat's just like such an
interesting human condition,that I think we all suffer like
I do know that I'm not alone inthat experience of the world,
that we are always kind ofbattling our mind. And our mind
seems to think that it'snecessary to have this anxiety
in order to, like, prevent whatwill possibly come to be. And

(32:58):
that's so not true.

Lynn (33:01):
Well, the key word, operative words, when you said,
in order to prevent the thingfrom happening happening, and
that's the belief anyway,because that's what I've used my
worry for, is it's like, well,if I worry enough, maybe it
won't happen. And in so manycases, the fact that I'm
worrying is what caused it tohappen? Yeah, yeah,

Stevie (33:20):
absolutely. We manifest our own reality. And if we're
like, I mean, you know, horsesare such a great reflection,
immediate reflection of that.
Because if you're sitting thereor on the horse and riding, and,
for example, you're like, Oh,they're gonna spook at that,
they're gonna spook at that,they're gonna spook at that. And
you're getting tighter and,like, more anticipatory, the
horse is probably like, oh, didyou want me to spook at that
like, additionally felt like,why are you afraid? Now I'm

(33:43):
afraid. And that just, you know,has a big cyclical effect,

Lynn (33:48):
right? Well. And the other piece of imagination that I
think is incredibly productiveis when I put a picture in my
mind with a horse, and say,imagine we go over there. And a
lot of times I'll picture itlike a blue like instead of a
yellow brick road, like a bluebrick road. Don't ask me why I
like blue for that many times,especially a horse I'm connected

(34:13):
to without me feeling like I'mdoing much else. It's like they
get the picture, and they'rereally delighted to go follow
along on my picture. So I haveto be very careful what I
picture then, because mydisaster mind, you know that can
create all kinds of scenarios,because I'm a risk manager at
heart, I can picture all thesehorrible things, and then I

(34:36):
don't want to, like be creatingthat very thing.

Stevie (34:40):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, it's definitely. I mean, I think
that's why people are so drawnto horses, like most everyone
has come through childhood withtrauma, somehow, I think that's
kind of the path we're meant totake. And many of those people
with trauma seek out ways to fixit without knowing it, because
that's. Spiritual path you'reon, whether you admit it or

(35:02):
understand it or not. Andoftentimes horses are a great, a
great space to learn how toregulate nervous system, to
regulate your mind, to like havemotivation to do the work. So
it's an interesting, interestingcrossover for people and space
to go into,

Lynn (35:21):
because we share the that mammalian nervous system with
horses. And one of my earlylessons from one of my teachers
was, as I was very fearful upthere, because I was recovering
from the accident, an accident,and she said, under no
circumstances is this horse evergoing to conclude that he is the

(35:43):
cause of the fear that you arefeeling? He is asking you,
should he be afraid or not? Soif you're afraid, the answer to
him is yes, I should be afraid.
Yeah, create exactly the thingthat you're here to get over,
and so the being able to reversethat, and I've been reflecting
on that a lot lately. You know,it's true in flying, when you're

(36:05):
trying, you know, when you'retrying to recover from a stall
in an airplane, you do theopposite of what you feel like
you should do, and you push thenose down at the very moment
when you're afraid you're goingto crash, but that's the only
way to recover from a stall. AndI feel like that principle of
doing almost the opposite ofwhat you naturally would do
riding a horse, don't clutching,don't clutch, and go into the

(36:27):
fetal position, you know, find away to relax at the moment that
you're under the most pressureand feeling the most fear. I
think that is what makes allthis so interesting, and makes

Stevie (36:41):
those those two phrases, like steering into the skid,
really becomes true, and theonly, the only way out is
through, which is like such anendurance mindset, and a phrase
I really like.

Lynn (36:53):
Well, the only way out is through is also what we use for
grief. So how, how did you applythat principle with with this
particular Tevis, like, whatother moments of truth did you
have where you had to go findthat place within yourself that
is willing to keep taking stepsthrough when you realize you

(37:14):
have so many steps yet to take?

Stevie (37:18):
That's a good question.
I feel like I always like tosay, like, necessity is the
birthplace of ability, because,yeah, the only way out is
through. Is really true forTevis, it's a lot of drop off
trail, and it's very remote, soyou can't just suddenly be like,
I give up. I don't want to playanymore. Like, there's that may

(37:40):
be true, but that also means youstill have to make it to the
next vet check at minimum. So,like, you can't just stand
there, and you also can't juststop because there's plenty of
horses behind you and in frontof you and you're on a drop off
ledge, and you can't just stop.
Like, that's not an option. Youcan't turn around. Yeah, you
can't turn around. Like, weactually tailed the horses up

(38:00):
the canyons at one point, and wewere behind them, and I was
behind Alex, who's like, kind ofa wide load of a horse, and I
went to go get in front of him,and I was like, Okay, if he
turns and, like, tries toscratch his head on me, he'll
knock me off this cliff. Like, Iwas like, I actually can't get
back in front of this horse, norcan I get back on him if I
wanted to. And I was like,usually I can, like, snake

(38:22):
around to get in front of them,and I just couldn't. And I was
like, Okay, well, hopefully,like, nothing, nothing happens.
Can't drop these leads. Can'thave, you know, there are quite
a lot of moments where I was,like, really contemplating,
like, this trail is really, isreally dangerous, like there's
you just everything has to goright? Which I knew that from,

(38:45):
from last year, there were tworeally unfortunate deaths of
horses that were, like, kind ofboth freak accidents. It was a
little wild. So again, that waswhy the vetting was so severe
this year in in good you know,it was a it was a good plan.
Again, I don't think that anymore severe vetting would have
caught these incidents, becauseboth were horses having a moment

(39:07):
being horses, and that kind ofled to them falling off the
trail. And honestly, bothincidents were cut, were
unpredictable completely. But itwas a nice step by Western
states trail foundation on Teviscup to, like, put more stringent
vet checks, like they loweredheart rates again, further into

(39:29):
the ride, before you go into thecanyons, which was, like, you
know, anxiety provoking for me.
I ride, I think you know, not tosay that other breeds can't do
it, but Tevis is going to slowlybecome a race where, really,
Arabians do much better than allother breeds, and that's just
because their heart rates arenaturally way lower. And there's
so many checks that pull onheart rates. And I am absolutely
a proponent of all horses can doendurance, but I do think Tevis

(39:52):
is going to become an Arabianrace because the heart rates
keep dropping in an effort tohave horse. Welfare being very
inclusive, but I do think it'sgoing to become an exclusive
race. So it's, you know, there'salways that balance, and it's
interesting. Anyhow, I have ahorse that's a standard bred
Arabian, and he's quite large,so his heart rate is always a
battle. And that was anxietyprovoking. But kind of got a got

(40:14):
away from everything where I wasgoing with this, but along the
trail this year, I was noticing,because of those, um, those
incidents last year, I hadalready gone into it knowing it
could be fatal, right? And thatwas just a really big like, I
really struggled with this posthave this last year, and I kind

(40:38):
of alluded to it talking to you.
And I still haven't finishedprocessing, um, everything that
has happened. And, like, reallybeing like, Okay, I'm risking
these people's lives and andthese horses lives by doing
this, like, is that ethical? Andthen really looking at that
stats of, like, all the horsesthat have started and finished
have us, and then the stats of,just like, the horses in our own

(41:00):
pasture, and being like, youknow what, they're actually in
greater danger of an injury andpasture and, like, knock on
wood, but I've never had a horsebe injured in an endurance ride.
I've only had them be injuredout in pasture or doing stupid
stuff on trail. Like one timeAlex kicked Sonic and, like, he
got this big gash where he had,like, blood spurting out. Was
like, this whole incident. I waslike, these are horses just

(41:22):
being horses. It wasn't evenlike, like impact or athlete
athletically related to whatthey were doing. So I've had to
really, like, push back againstmy mind that seeks out comfort
and for everyone listening. Lynnand I, like, texted back and
forth this morning about likethemes we were thinking about
coming up to this podcast, andone of them, a big theme I've

(41:43):
had for myself this year hasbeen like fighting back against
shrinking, and I feel that, youknow, like in wondering why I
seem to have more anxiety thisyear, I'm like, well, it's
definitely not even related towhat I do, but related to the
state of the world right now.
It's just, I think, been reallydisconcerting to see the shifts

(42:05):
in political climate, just inlike, how mean people can be to
each other, and how dehumanizingpeople can be on both sides. And
that's been like, the backgroundnoise in my head that's just,
like, made me more anxious.
Like, you just have to question,like, where is the world going?
Because it doesn't feel likeit's going in a good, good

(42:26):
place. And I think a lot ofpeople are sharing that, like,
activation. So I thinkeveryone's being switched into
fight, flight or freeze due to,like, the political climate and
and just shifts in, like, evenenvironment. I mean, like, look
what's happening with all thesenatural disasters. Like, that's
really real and really scary,and doesn't put people in a

(42:48):
space of, like, you know, beingopen or creative, everyone's
back into scarcity mindset. And,like, not in in their place of
abundance. And I think thismakes for, you know, just all of
us to feel a lot more activationin the things we do. And it's
made me want to shrink, like,I'm like, I don't want to, you
know, I've had talks withmyself. I don't want to do Tevis

(43:09):
anymore. Like, even when I wasout there, I was like, this is a
lot of pressure. I'm like, do Ireally want to do this? And I
think, you know, I just havekept saying to myself, because
I'm in an activated state whenI'm having those thoughts, I'm
like, I'm reminding myself thatI have this lens on this
negative lens, and additionally,like, I don't want fear to ever

(43:33):
dictate, dictate my choices. AndI think that little standalone
sentence has really helped meassess what I'm feeling, and if
it's valid. You know not thatyour feelings are valid, but
like it's made me assess whatI'm feeling at the time, I guess
is a good way to put it. And I'mjust coming to the conclusion
that I don't want fear todictate what I do. I want

(43:57):
compassion, love, adventure,curiosity. I want those things
to be the pursuit I'm or thewords that are helping me pursue
my goals. And so I've decided,you know, it was kind of why I
decided, okay, I'm also gonna dothis half Iron Man. I'm gonna,
like, push myself. I'm gonnakeep pushing instead of

(44:18):
shrinking, even though, in, youknow, like I had, I think
everyone coming up to theirtheir big goals in life, have
like, doubts and and outs. Like,for me, I always tell myself,
like, somehow, this is weirdlymotivating. But I'll be like,
Oh, if you get there and youdon't feel like it's the right
answer, you can always bail. OrI like, I always say that. But

(44:39):
then when I come up to that. Youknow, those little checkpoints
of times where I can bail out, Ican I end up pushing through.
And a good example is Alex waslike during Tavis. Alex was
classically like. His heart ratewas not easy to recover. But I
kind of know that about him, andI also know it's not like
indicative of his health. Yes,but I was like, Alex, you've

(45:02):
gone far enough. You've done agreat job. Like, if you don't
want to keep going, that's okaywith me. Like, I'm totally fine.
We got our buckle last year. Idon't want to push you past
what's necessary. And at thattime, I was actually in the
lead, and I was thinking that,and he took off at a gallop from
our little trot. And it waslike, it was an absolute Screw
you. I can do this. Don't evertake this away from me. And I

(45:24):
felt like, is a little bit theuniverse talking through him to
me, like, don't give up. Like,it is not that hard. Like,
that's just what you'reexperiencing right now. Is like,
such a cool moment of beinglike, I felt really good about
that our goals and like,thinking like, you know, like,
how do I explain thissuccinctly? I guess I'm always

(45:45):
questioning, am I pursuing myown goals in ego, you know, and
dragging this poor horse alongwith me? And it was sort of like
a moment of me questioning that,and immediately he came back
with, no, I'm finishing thisrace. Like, whether you're with
me or not. So it was like, see,it was like, important to him as
well, and that he had so muchleft in the tank, and that I was

(46:06):
letting my lens of insecurityand fear sort of color what he
might be experiencing. And hewas like, I'm not experiencing
what you're experiencing. So itwas like a cool moment of
recognition, and

Lynn (46:21):
I validation, if you ask me, absolutely,

Stevie (46:25):
yeah. And I think, you know, I see that so much in,
like, training people, mungleDerby for Tevis, like all
endurance sports, we as humansare so, so much softer than the
horses are, actually. And Ithink it's like a big crossover
too, in, like, the spiritualhorse world, like, where people
are very attuned to theirhorses, which is great, but we
also are, like taking away fromtheir abilities, like, they're

(46:48):
so much more athletic than weare, and they live out in the
environment, and there's there'smore stoic and strong, much
stronger than we are, and weoftentimes project our own fears
and softness onto them, and wetake away from their ability and
their resilience. And I thinkthat that's a really interesting
space that I occupy. And I'malways questioning is, like,

(47:10):
what part is our projectedsoftness, and what part, you
know, like, I think that horsesare so much more capable than
most people let them be.

Lynn (47:18):
I think that's also probably true of as a coach of
people, I have noticed that'salso true of people as well, and
it's actually one of the reasonsI so appreciate getting to hang
out with you and come on therides that I have with you,
because I've seen you, not justfor me, but for others who have
a hiccup. And when we go out,there's almost always something

(47:40):
that's a hiccup, right? And Iremember on a on a ride we did
this year earlier in March,where, you know, 10 minutes
after somebody had a little bitof a hiccup, you had her in the
late you had her in the lead,like saying, I believe in you.
And, more importantly, let herrecover her own confidence to
say, Yeah, I can do this. Butwhat do we normally do is we

(48:03):
shrink back and say, okay, here,let me, let's put you in the
safest place. We'll put you inthe middle of the pack, and we
won't ever ask you to step outagain, because this one thing
happened, and that becomes avery small identity. And I fight
that with myself all the time.

Stevie (48:24):
Yeah, same. I mean, absolutely the same. And I think
there's so much in learningthrough doing. So there's a I
love, the line Tracker's Guideto Life, by Boyd Barney. And
there's so many quotable, simplequotes. And one that I really
like is I don't know where we'regoing, but I know how to get
there, and I often feel thatthat's what I'm embodying or

(48:49):
experiencing as a teacher. Idon't really know what the end
goal is, but I do feel confidentin being with you through it. So
I have like, loose goals oflike, Okay, we're gonna, like,
ride this many miles today. Butit's definitely held loosely,
because so many things can comeup, especially if you have five
horses, five riders. So you'reonly going to be like, the

(49:10):
strongest of the 10 of you thatday, or as capable as the 10 of
you, the weakest of the 10 ofyou that day. So I'm always
constantly reshaping, and, youknow, like I feel, I feel like,
if I just loosely hold a goal inplace and then see what is meant
to be taught in the day, likeI'm learning through the

(49:30):
experience too. Like, goodexample, just yesterday, I had
three little girls, 622, or six,and one is like four, and we
went out on a trail ride, and Iwas only leading one of them,
and the other girls were ridingindependently, and we went out,
and a thunderstorm came up, andone of the girls was about to
cry. And I actually am reallyafraid of lightning, like

(49:52):
really, because I've heard oflike horses dying, and, you
know, they're grounded by metalshoes. Like, it does happen.
They do get struck by lightning.
And so. Was like, Oh, this is socool. Like, we're gonna, you
know, we're gonna get back.
We're not gonna run back becausewe don't want to, like, let the
horses know that this is scary.
And I also didn't want to, like,heighten the energy for the
little girls. But I was like, Ialso don't want to run with
these horses. I was on foot withthem. I was like, I don't want

(50:14):
to run and have one of thehorses get out of hand. And so
we're I was like, Okay, well,you know, you get to say that
you rode back with lightningcoming up, but like, you know,
we were talking about, like,lightning safety and what we
should do and ride along theedge of the meadow. So we're
not, like, out in the middle ofthe meadow, but we'll go along
the tree line. And I was like,you know, if I was alone in that

(50:35):
situation, actually, would havebeen probably scared, like,
more, for my horse's sake, andit's just like a lifelong fear
of mine, but in the teaching andlike, just talking it out with
them, I felt completely calmbecause I was like, Well, I'm
it's not my turn to panic. Ithink there's a meme out there
about horse ownership, and it'slike only one of us can freak
out at a time, and it's never myturn. I don't feel like that,

(50:57):
and I think that's maybe why Ido what I do. I get to do a lot
of things that maybe I wouldn'tpush myself to do. But when I'm
supposed to be the voice ofreason, then when I have to step
into that role, I do it. Youknow, again, like necessity
being the adventure invention ofability. And that's like, kind
of how I'm living my life. LikeI do feel, you know, I'm not

(51:17):
faking it. I do feel confidentwhen I'm talking people through
stuff, but I don't know if Iwould feel that confident in
talking through those thingswith myself.

Lynn (51:29):
Yeah. Well, I think putting yourself in those
situations is what gives you thechance to actually build those
like I think of that as buildingour mental tools. And I've I've
noticed a very distinctdifference in myself, if I fall
into the freak out, versusskate, okay, this is happening

(51:53):
for me. I'm going to workthrough this and then I use it,
almost like a muscle buildingactivity for my mental skills,
if you will, can I can I staywithin myself in this moment,
versus how big of a freak out amI going to allow myself to have?
And then what do I do next,after that? Like, do I say I can
never go do that again? Like,right? You know, after a near

(52:15):
miss in a car, does that meanI'm never going to drive a car
again? Right?

Stevie (52:19):
Again? Are you letting fear, like drive your decision
making, or are you lettingcuriosity, compassion,
adventure, all those things,what is driving your decision
making so

Lynn (52:31):
good? I feel like curiosity is the gateway to
every single thing that mattersinside, like that's how we
learn, but I think it's also howwe be brave? I think the curious
question of, I wonder what willhappen if, and, you know, I'll
take one more baby step, andthat's the thing that helps me
the most, is not to gulp, but toactually take one little baby

(52:55):
step at a time. It's like, Ilove your your like, rhyme of
doubts and outs. You know, I canhave my doubts and outs, but at
least take one more step andthen just let myself out when
it's too far, like, when I'vegone a step too far, then let
myself out if I need to. Ialmost never have to.

Stevie (53:12):
Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great hack. You know,
for people not sure how to reachtheir next goal, like, don't
worry so much about the goal.
Like, have it there. So it'slike a benchmark that you know,
you know somewhat where you'regoing. But again, like, focus on
how you're getting there. So if,along the way, you know, like a
good example, I'm going to run amarathon, but I've never run a

(53:33):
step in my life. Well, cool. Iftoday, after running, you know,
on and off for a mile, justgoing out and exercising for a
mile. If that did not feel goodor doable, then I don't need to
have that as my goal. I'm goingto change it and but you'll
surprise yourself, because thenit seems bite size by giving
yourself those outs along theway. And I think Additionally,

(53:54):
if, if you're not using themarathon or the end goal is your
only measure of success, thenyou're going to be more
successful. Which comes back tosomething that we had spoken
about, and I had, like, sent youa clip from a podcast, was
process goals versus outcomegoals, which has been a huge and
wonderful new reframing of theidea that the journey, it's

(54:18):
like, all about the journey,right? Like, that's just a
really cool, poetic and moresuccinct way of saying. It's
about the journey, and again,process, goals. I think in
endurance sports, you cannot.
It's absurd to think thatcrossing the finish line is a
measure of your success, becausethat is a fraction of the time

(54:39):
that you've put in. Example ForTevis. Like to make a Tevis
horse, in my mind, takes like,five years, and I think that's
just like, you know, I You canride a horse as young as seven
there. But I don't think thatthat's ideal. There's always
exceptions. I just say never,say never. But I think that.

(55:00):
Having, you know, for the tohave all three boxes checked of
mental, emotional and physicalability of that horse takes a
long time to process that,especially knowing how dangerous
those trails can be, you want tohave all this stuff in place. So
the journey to the Teva startline is huge, and like most of
it, even though you're ridingfor 24 hours, which is very long

(55:21):
time to have an event go on. Somost people's goals are very
short lived, even if there's afinish line involved, like it
might only be like, you know, ahalf marathon or something,
which is like a two hour, threehour endeavor, or faster if
you're a fast runner. But Ithink it's really interesting to
ever think that a snapshot ofyour experience is the

(55:43):
importance of it? And, you know,again, I think our society, we
want to be relatable and and Isee this in kids, like, always
asking me, How far did we ride?
Like, how many miles, how manyhours? They're trying to find
tangible numbers and metrics tolike measure their experience.
And I'm always like, sort ofpushing against that more, like,
how much like, how much fun didyou have? Like, how, how hard

(56:03):
was that for you? Like, what'sthe distance, the duration, the
difficulty? Like, take intoaccount, like, all the measures
in there, not just like, thesemetrics of like, how far do we
go at the end? Because I thinkhaving these tiny snapshots is a
measure of your worth and yoursuccess are like, very like,
they're just, they're notsustainable metrics. I kind of

(56:25):
came up the with this idea, witha lot of people doing the Mongol
Derby, which is extremelydifficult race spread out 620,
miles over 10 days, riding allthese different horses. And a
lot of times they're, you know,for a long time there was a low
measure of success, much likeTevis, like, closer to, like, a
40% completion rate. And I waslike, you can't, like, the

(56:46):
journey to get to Mongoliainvolves so much training, just
like Tevis, and this appliesMongol Derby and Tevis are very
similar experiences in thatthey're very long races with
like, one, like, very low chanceat finishing. And there are a
lot of people that are trainedthat wanted to win the Mongol
derby. So like, not only didthey want to finish, they wanted

(57:07):
to win. And I was like, youknow, that's lovely that you
have that goal for yourself, butif you don't reach this now,
which is, like, you know, a onein 45 chance, because there's 45
entrants in the Mongol Derby, aone in 45 chance of being happy.
Like, that's really like,setting yourself up for failure.
And so I started like, that waslike, in training people for the

(57:28):
Mongol Derby, I really startedto, like, look at process goals.
I was like, instead of saying,like, I want to finish, you
know, and like, that can be oneof your goals, but like, maybe
your bigger goal should be,like, I want to maintain my
integrity throughout the race,which was like When Dylan and I
had started doing my Dylan's myhusband, and when we had started
doing a lot more work, and wewent back and did Gaucho Derby

(57:48):
for the first time in thePioneer run, we actually made
the goal for ourselves. Wewanted to be we wanted to
maintain integrity and moralitythroughout the race. So like, if
somebody needed help, we wouldlike, stop and help them. That
was that was more important thanhow we finished, because we're
like, finishing is just likethis little snapshot, but like
how we behave and how we comeacross and how we work together.

(58:11):
We're also like, let's havelet's work together throughout
this race. Let that be our goal.
And it honestly felt so muchbetter. And that was, like, a
big shift in my understanding ofhow to do these endurance races.
Was like, What in the process doI want to learn? Because the
process is, like, 1000 timesmore man hours than the actual

(58:33):
little second of crossing thefinish line. And somehow there's
like magic in that paradox. Whenyou start, like focusing on the
process, you actually do betteron the outcome.

Lynn (58:45):
I think that's true across the board. And I'm actually
helping Austin Abel train forthe World Water Ski
Championship, which is about amonth from now. It here at
Mystic waters, and he's onlyknown he's going for about the
last, I don't know, four or fivemonths, but we have very much
been talking process goalsversus outcome goals and like

(59:10):
down to every day, sort of whatis this practice need to look
like. And not every practice isa tournament set. And many times
practices are focused on himjust making one move, I'm just
trying to work on this one move,and then the buoy count probably
isn't going to be there. Andit's really hard in skiing,
because we all it's verytangible and very quick. How

(59:31):
many buoys did you get? Butright? Really very different as
we've worked through this, bothfor him and for me, and it's
changing kind of how I'veapproached skiing as well, but
it is a big like, this isexactly the conversation we had
about when he had justaccomplished something huge last
year, and he goes, you know howlong that lasted? It was like 30

(59:55):
seconds, and then it was like,Okay, now I'm going to go get my
daughter and we're going tofigure out what we're doing. For
dinner, and this is life, right?
Is the what are we doing day inand day out? And it's not unlike
what Scotty Scheffler said. Idon't know if you saw those
quotes. He's a really high levelgolfer who has won a bunch of
tournaments this year, but he'slike, Yeah, but it's over in
five minutes or less, and thenI'm going to have to figure out,

(01:00:17):
what are we doing for dinner andhow are we getting

Stevie (01:00:21):
home? Yeah, yeah. I just recently, I'm not sure if it was
someone from the Tour de Franceor if it was him. I just caught
a snippet of it on some podcastof someone saying, Yeah, you win
the championship, and it's coolfor like a couple minutes, and
then it's back to regular life.
So if all the glory andhappiness. Like, say, again,
you've set this outcome goal foryourself, and you do reach it,

(01:00:44):
it's again, extremely fleeting.
Versus, like, am I living a lifethat brings me joy? Am I, like,
joyful in this process? Youknow, like they talk about in
endurance running sports, like,if you really don't like the
running training a you'reprobably not going to be an
ultra runner. But like, why areyou doing it? You know? Like,

(01:01:04):
that's, that's something toobserve. And so, like, when you
look at what goals, outcomegoals you have for yourself,
because there's probably a lotof us that do have those. And
like, oftentimes that'sunfortunately our jobs. Like, my
outcome goal is to make thismuch money. Oh, yeah, okay,
great. But the process of yougetting that much money is
destroying your well being. Solike, really look at that, you

(01:01:26):
know, and that's where I love, Ilove my life. It's definitely,
from time to time, reallysketchy I live in, I live in a
bus. Like, financially, it canbe, um, questionable here and
there. But like, I am soenamored with the process of how
I live to create this life. Itdoesn't, it doesn't feel
necessary to have more. Like Ijust talking to my friend this

(01:01:47):
morning, and we're talking aboutdestination addiction, like the
idea that something yourhappiness lies in, like a bigger
house, a new car, the nextrelationship, the next anything,
right? Like, that's our mindslove, destination, addiction,
ideas, again, is like a littlebit like an outcome goal. Of
like, if I have this, then I'llbe happy. And in fact, like, the

(01:02:10):
magic of life is realizingthere's always another milestone
to be met. So, like, you canalways level up in anything that
you're doing, but if you thinkthat the leveling up will bring
you joy, you're screwed, becausethere's endless amounts of
levels to reach in anything thatyou pursue you'll never master
anything. And, yeah, oh, sorry.
Go ahead. Go ahead.

Lynn (01:02:30):
Well, I was gonna say on that economic front in my
profession, as an executivecoach, I've had countless people
come to me who've more thanmade, whatever their number is,
of additional money, and,frankly, of additional
promotions or whatever. And thething we've, I've come to
conclude, is that it's a we'realmost in a form of economic

(01:02:51):
slavery, which is that there'snever enough. And I've literally
sat with people who have over abillion dollars and it's still
not enough, yeah? And so, like,every you know, because somebody
who doesn't have it is going tosit there and go, Yeah, but when
I have this, no, I can tell youwithout a shadow of a doubt, not

(01:03:13):
going to solve it. Solve it.
That's not how we were wired. Sowe're wired to, like, do this
destination addiction thing, andwe're going to always want more.
But the antidote is back to thisprocess, goals thing, because
what I have begun experimentingwith, and this was because it
somebody showed it to me, notbecause I figured it out on my
own, but if you break thosegoals down and then allow

(01:03:35):
yourself the same endorphin kickfor achieving little baby goal
as you get when you get acrossthe finish line, then you've
actually filled your bucket bymany 1000s of times more
endorphin kicks than you wouldhave gotten by just getting the
one at the end and beatingyourself up all the way to get
to there, cuz that's usuallywhat we do if we're destination

(01:03:56):
addiction, We're like on ourback the whole time going, come
on, come on, come on, come on.
You can do it, as opposed tolook, you did it, you did it,
you did it, you did it, you didit,

Stevie (01:04:10):
so absolutely. And, you know, I think that's a really
good point to make for peopleout there that are questioning,
like taking up something new,which, you know, change is
always scary. Our minds alwayssafeguard against any change,
because, like in our mind'smind, that's just a survival
tool. Everything we've done upto this point is obviously kept
us alive. So why would we changeanything? So remember that your

(01:04:32):
mind is like naturallyengineered to like work against
any new change, but when youtake on new new sports, new
goals, every little thing is amilestone. So that's actually
why I love teaching beginnerriders and training horses.
Like, everything is new,everything is a win. It's so
exciting. That's where I find somuch joy. Is like teaching

(01:04:55):
beginner rider, teachingbeginner horses, like having
people embark on these like.
Crazy new adventures, and likelearning a whole new style of
writing, because every everylittle thing that they
accomplish is a wholecelebration. They've never done
that before. They've neverridden that far. They've never
run that far. Like that's such acool thing to be a part of and
to celebrate. And it reminds youto like, you know, like you were
here once. Like this is alsostill amazing. It's amazing that

(01:05:18):
you can think that 50 miles isnot hard, or like that 100, you
know, 100 miles won't be hard onyour body, but like watching
people do their first 100 mileride and being there for that
experience, that's so cool, andit's so such a good reminder of
how far we've come, and like howeverything is so exciting. So if
you're out there, likeconsidering doing something new,

(01:05:40):
just remember, you get to havelike that experience of every
little try that you make isgoing to be further. And you've
ever gone before,

Lynn (01:05:49):
and I've been whatever unit. I mean, my longest rides
have been with you, and my myrides where we did the most,
like, for example, the mosttrotting, because this year, the
trip we did in June, I feel likewe trotted more on the trail
than anytime I've been there andand done more experiments, if

(01:06:10):
you will. You know, tried thingsthat I hadn't done before, and
the longest time to ride in therain was with you, too.

Stevie (01:06:20):
Yeah, that's absolutely true.

Lynn (01:06:24):
And what was so cool to me that that particular day,
because it helped a lot, that Iactually had thought to put my
rain jacket on when it wasn'treally raining when we started.
But I was like, You know what?
It can't hurt. I'm going to haveit on. And I not once thought,
Gosh, I wish it would quitraining. I wish we could get off
this trail. I wish this ride wasover. Not once when we finally
were done, I was like, dang,we're done. I think that was the

(01:06:48):
day I was riding Gilbert, and hewas acting, he was acting up a
little bit, but that was evenfun.

Stevie (01:06:57):
Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Though it's so true. And
yeah, for all the listeners,Lynn was definitely enjoying
herself, which was reallyawesome to see it and to be a
part of. And I think, you know,for the horse people that are
listening to this out there,like instructors in the world,
like, just remember, yeah,there's a weird bias against

(01:07:18):
taking beginner riders or ridersthat are new to something,
because it can, you know, it canbe a little challenging. But
like, as an writing instructorthat's taught advanced to
beginner, like I do, find themost joy in teaching beginners
because they're super excitedand they kind of reinvigorate
why you enjoy the sport too. So,like I, I don't love the rain or

(01:07:39):
being out in it, necessarily,but I was also void of, like, I
didn't necessarily care about itbeing done or not, either,
because, like, Lynn was havingso much fun, and the other rider
that was riding with us, Andreawas, like, having some
milestones too. And like,learning what endurance is
about, which is, like, you ridethrough anything, and you know,
it's exciting and wonderful forme as well. So like, yeah,

(01:08:01):
having, having people that havea different perspective of the
like, our everyday for you can,like, remind you to take joy in
things

Lynn (01:08:11):
exactly well, and we begin those rides with with something.
And I was thinking about whatyou were talking about when we
take on new things. And this wasa conversation I was just having
before we got on today, whenAustin and I were skiing
together around something I'vebeen struggling with, and it's
that you start us with thebalance board, and the statement
the body wants to be in balance,and so we stand on the balance

(01:08:34):
board. And you know, everybodyis, especially at the beginning,
is very tippy and falling offthe boards and then getting back
on and then, pretty quickly, welook like you never quite as
good as you, because you do thisall the time, but you've we find
that balance point, and itbecomes much more stable. And

(01:08:54):
that's a real eye opener for forI know I've noticed it with all
the different groups we've had.
And for me, is just, if you'llallow yourself to, like, go into
it, your body will find itsbalance point. Then there's this
other side of that, which wewant the balance point, but the
other side of it is but if wewant to actually change
something, we actually have togo out of balance and create

(01:09:15):
some disequilibrium to go to thenext place. And that's what I've
been my skiing. And it's like,where do I want to stay? I found
what, where just to be veryliterate or real about this.
I've been really struggling withmy skiing this summer, because I
had a couple of weird thingswhere I felt like I was going to

(01:09:37):
going to fall, and did fall, andthen I started, like, almost
lying to myself to protectmyself against letting it happen
again. So I try to make theright move, which really is like
in skiing, your first move,you're pulling out, you're
pulling out for the gate, andit's really just a control fall,
like what you're doing isleaning your body way off the

(01:09:58):
ski. And way forward, and thenthe ski shoots out, and then you
flatten the ski out and turn in.
But you have to ride that fall.
If you don't ride that fall,which I was just trying not to
fall at all, then you're notgoing anywhere. And that, to me,
is like the interestingbalancing act of trying to
change anything is knowing thatyour mind wants to stay in

(01:10:20):
equilibrium, and we seekbalance, and balance is good,
but we've got to be able totrust that when we get out of
balance and we're falling, thatwe can ride that fall so that we
can make the change we'reseeking to make.

Stevie (01:10:37):
Yeah, that's, um, that's a really, good point. Like, we
spend so much time trying toprevent the fall, but, like,
there's also you kind of have tohave some acceptance that it
might happen, and if it does,having the trust in our bodies
that we can deal with it.

Lynn (01:10:53):
When we were talking about, before we got on, we were
talking about cantering off on ahorse, and this was something
for me that it took a while tounderstand, because for the
first three or four years, Itried to canter with horses.
Most of the time. I'd give themthe cues, but nothing was
happening, and it took somebodyon the ground to actually get
them to to lope off. And then Icould start, like, getting in

(01:11:19):
the rhythm. But what I'mstarting, I've started noticing
is, you know, in a way, when thehorse is loping off, they're
they're completely changing yourbalance. And if you're not ready
to, like, join them in that newbalance, you feel you're going
to either fall off or feel likeyou're falling off. And the
sooner they that, I realizedthat I could know what it's

(01:11:42):
going to feel like when theylope off, so I know I can be
with them. Because what I wasthinking my imagination, was
that every time they movedfaster than a walk, it was going
to be a full on gallop or boltthat I couldn't ride. And
actually the workshop with youdoing doing the galloping
workshop helped a lot, becausewhen the horse did take off full

(01:12:04):
gallop, I was like, Oh, this isactually easier to ride than the
other stuff. With the pointbeing like, we actually have to
start getting comfortable withthe disequilibrium, which is all
we're doing when we walk.
Anyway, we're in disequilibrium.
We're constantly just getfalling out of balance and back

(01:12:24):
in balance. I feel like, if wecould just accept that, or I
should speak for myself, if Ican accept that, that's what I
can make progress in anythingI'm trying to do.

Stevie (01:12:37):
Yeah, that's a really, a really good point. I think
there's a good saying that's notreally coming to me now, about
nothing, essentially, if you'recomfortable, you wouldn't move
right like the universe. That'skind of the universe's voice to
us. You can also, I think,another way to say that there's
something about the roots of atree with no wind are shallow,

(01:13:02):
right? And it's essentially thatyou have to have the discomfort
and the pressures to createsomething strong and resilient,
really interesting. You know, wewere talking about this, like
loping off before we startedrecording. And we were talking
about how horses tend not towant to trot or lope off. For

(01:13:24):
beginners, when they first askthe first time, because they can
feel like the body is asking,the leg is being applied. The
like kissing or the noise thatyou need to make for that
particular horse to move forwardis happening. So like,
physically, the riders askingfor the forward motion, but
internally the riders, like,actually hoping it doesn't
happen. Like, I definitely seethat with, like, the little
kids, when they do their firstcanner, they're like, you can

(01:13:45):
see the trepidation on theirface, and it's like, reflected
in the first thing, yeah, I'mnot going to canter. I think you
don't want to, which, again,like shows their alignment to
like your feelings versus likethe physicality of your writing.
But I find, I find that that'sso, so interesting in Oh, I had,

(01:14:06):
I had this thought when you weretalking, and then I was
listening, and I like, kind oflet it drift off. But it was
like an idea, oh, that what'sfunny is, I believe that all
truths are paradoxes, and whenyou're just speaking, now, that
came up. And it came up in a newway of, like, actually what that
means then, if all truths areparadoxes, then that actually

(01:14:28):
means that there's balancing.
And this was like, in referenceto you talking about the balance
boards. So the there's alwaysopposing elements in every
truth. So like, a dark and alight side, if you want to look
at it spiritually, but like,essentially, you can see in
Horse, horse running and ineverything right, that you know
in balancing on a ski that youhave to be, you have to hold two

(01:14:52):
things at the same time. Youhave to hold, like, not
manifesting your actual fall,but be. Lightly prepared. Should
you come into like, on like,Should you lose balance? Which
is such an interesting like, Ithink that all these, like
sports that at their extremelevels are like an extreme
holding of these, like balancedelements, like, you have to be

(01:15:13):
prepared, but you also have to,like, not manifest that thing.
So how do you do that? Andthat's, I think, what's such a
cool, a cool element to riding,to skiing, water skiing, all of
these things. And, yeah, I thinkI'll choose our paradoxes. Just
means that we're alwaysbalancing.

Lynn (01:15:35):
Yeah, and you know, as you were saying that, I I'm back to
the point where I realized thatthe balance point is always
moving, and so what we have tobe is in done that dynamic
alignment. Because my mind says,Well, I want to get there and
then stop. I want to be done.
And that's that get to the endmind, as opposed to, I'm
constantly adjusting towards abalance point that's always

(01:15:56):
moving.

Stevie (01:16:00):
Yes, and maybe the

Lynn (01:16:02):
secret, when you see someone who does it really well
to being relaxed under pressure,because I think one of the ways
we do shrink our world is thatwe try to avoid pressure. And I
do think there's, yeah, we wantto avoid it or reduce it, but I
also think there's times when wehave to recognize that we can

(01:16:24):
use it to help us build ourstronger roots. I really love
that saying about the roots thatyou said, you know, the roots of
a tree with no wind to shallow,because I think we've seen that
sometimes in our kids. I wasreading an article the other day
that said, the the generationthat was coddling their kids is
now deciding to move to the it'sa new one. I'm going to use a

(01:16:48):
bad word here, everybody. So getready. I'm not going to bleep
it, but the the fuck around andfind out generation there are
consequences, because when youtake away the consequences from
someone by sheltering them andtaking away the pressures of
normal life, you've actuallymade them weak.

Stevie (01:17:10):
Yeah, you've taken their resiliency, which is like a huge
gift in all you know, allcreatures we teach, not just
kids like the horses, need to beresilient. Our dogs everything.
We are not always going to bethere protect, to protect, and
even if we are, we can't shieldagainst everything, even though
we want to,

Lynn (01:17:30):
and we do tend to. I think it's I'm going to again, speak
for myself, I tend to suck uptoo much. Need to help a lot of
times. This is something I'vegotten called out for a lot in
my horse training, which is,you're helping too much.
Actually let him make themistake, because it's in the
making of the mistake andletting the horse learn to
correct it that they learn. Butif you're always one step ahead

(01:17:52):
of them so they never make themistake, hello, me as a mom,
then they have to fall prettyfar when they finally do when
you finally can't hold them upany anymore, rather than Yeah,
hold themselves up

Stevie (01:18:08):
absolutely. Yeah, that's a very good noticing, and I
think we're all guilty of it,for sure.

Lynn (01:18:16):
Well, yeah, because when they're making a mistake, I feel
like I'm making a mistake,right? I didn't. I didn't I
didn't want to be a terriblemother. I didn't want to be a
terrible horse trainer. Andwatching the people who are
really good at owning that, youknow that things aren't always
going to go the way as planned,and I'd like to see more and
more people showing their roadto different ways of getting

(01:18:39):
some place with a horse or dogsor kids or whatever, where most
of the time it's not workinglike the horse doesn't just know
when you're asking them to stepoff to the left, how to step off
to the left, or whatever littlething you're asking them to do,
drop their head for the halter,whatever, you Know. So we need

(01:19:00):
to all Yeah, because theFacebook world a lot like the 30
minute sitcom world I worked in,grew up in, it's not the it's
not the real world.

Stevie (01:19:12):
No, absolutely not. And I think coming back to what
you're, you know, talking about,with pressure, like we kind of
imagine that, like theprofessionals in anything Don't
feel pressure. And you mentionedthis lightly, but I don't you
know that's not true at all,unless I think it's Alex Hummel.
I'm saying his last name wrong,but there's something like going

(01:19:32):
on with his amygdala in climbingwhere he doesn't feel fear the
way. Yeah, I couldn't evenI couldn't even
fair, yeah, I think, I think,you know, there are, like,
actual Chem, like biochemicaloutliers, for sure, but I think

(01:19:55):
for the most part, to imaginethat people aren't feeling
pressure. Um, and or that ourheroes don't feel pressure is
bizarre. It's actually just likethey're better at dealing with
it. And I think that's why Ilove watching the ultra running
world so much. Um, and there'slike, I'm really enamored with
um. David Roche, who's 100 mileUltra runner, um, and he

(01:20:18):
attempted Western states 100which is the running version of
the Tevis cup. And that alwayshappens about a month or a few
weeks before actual Tevis. Andhe, he actually, a couple of
years ago, got hit by a carbiking in his training, and he
weirdly had that like manifestup at because he hadn't dealt

(01:20:39):
with it at Forest Hill, which islike our 6886 86 mile mark on
the on the western states 100and he DNF, he he dropped out
of, ended up dropping out of therace. And he was really, he's, I
look up to him because he's veryopen about the process and like

(01:20:59):
his fears and injuries and likewhat he's doing to, like,
improve as a runner. And Ithought it was really awesome to
understand, like, you know, youhear him, and like, Courtney
dewalters, another famous Ultrarunner, they always talk about,
like, the pain cave and like thethings that they're going
through out on the trail. Andit's, like, very obvious in the
sport of ultra running that,like, people are not exempt from

(01:21:22):
feeling fear, pain andsuffering. They're actually just
like, gritting through it andunderstanding how to get to the
other side of it. And I thinkthat that's really true of all
things, it's just like, veryobvious in the endurance sports.
It's not that people don't havedifficulties, it's that they're
better at dealing with thosedifficulties because they're
always putting themselves underpressure. And I think, you know,

(01:21:43):
I get a lot of people that like,here's a great example. When
Dylan, my husband, and myself,signed up for this, like, half
Iron Man, I was not actuallysure that we would finish, and
everyone else was super sure,because in their minds, we're,
like, the very athletic peoplethat they know. But I was like,
No, you don't understand we're,like, signed up with like, 3000
other very athletic people and,like, same, like, you know,

(01:22:05):
Tevis, like people, our friendswho are not horsey, are like,
Oh, of course, you're gonna geta buckle and finish Tevis. Of
course. Like, of course, you'lldo great, because they see us
as, like, the horse people. Soof course, we're good at what we
do. And I think it's really easyto assume, or, like, somehow our
minds play this trick on usthat, like, oh, the people that
are successful are notsuffering, you know, or not

(01:22:27):
having a difficult time. Andyeah, we ended up doing really
well on this half Iron Man,like, better than we should have
done for the amount of trainingwe put in. But I think that was
again, like, I'm pulling in afew concepts here, but that was
also because I was, like, notcommitted to an end goal,
because I really didn't feelthat I had prepared my body in

(01:22:48):
the way that I should have. So Iwas like, if it doesn't feel
right, I'll just quit. Itdoesn't matter to me if I finish
or not. Like, I would like to,but like, totally fine. I'm not
gonna, like, injure myselfduring this race. And because I
was just like, I'm going to bein the moment and do the best I
can throughout the whole race. Ididn't even in, you know, like,
I actually could have probablydone better, and that was the

(01:23:10):
best I could do, though, withthe training that I had. And
what I mean by that is, I didn'tpush really hard on my bike
because I didn't know I hadn'tdone enough training to know, if
I pushed myself to the max,would I actually be able to run
the half marathon at the end,but I didn't, and I do feel like
I probably could have pushed alittle bit harder. Dylan and I
actually ran the half marathontogether at the end. He waited

(01:23:32):
for me. It was like a coupleminutes ahead on the bike, but
saw me come in as he was aboutto leave, so he waited on me
through the transition so thatwe could run together. And it
was like he was actually like,you can slow down in the run.
He's like, way more athleticthan I am. So that was like that
That felt good, and likeconfirming. But again, like our

(01:23:52):
goal was, like, to finish. Itwas not to, it was not to or,
sorry, our goal was to, like, dothe best we could, considering
all this, like, low amount oftraining we had, versus, like,
to get this medal at the finish,and that just ended up being,
like, a really great consolationprize that we did finish and
complete. But throughout,throughout that race, and

(01:24:16):
throughout Tevis, especiallyTevis, because that probably
means a lot more to me, itdoesn't mean that I wasn't
suffering mentally, you know,like, I would say, physically, I
felt pretty good during Thomas,but mentally, like I still
suffer. And I think some peoplelike to imagine our minds play
tricks on us, that the peoplethat we look up to are people

(01:24:37):
that are doing the same thing asus, are somehow having an easier
time of it. Yeah, and I don'tthink that's true, and I really
just want just want to dispelthat, which is why, on my
Facebook posts, I'm often tryingto talk about the difficult
things, because Facebook's sucha place of like, oh my gosh,
this was amazing, and my life isperfect, and that's not reality.
And I really try to, like, fightagainst that and tell the truth.

(01:25:00):
Truth about what my experienceis, in the hopes that other
people will be encouraged to goout and have those experiences
and realize like they're verycapable to like I'm not an
exception at all like and infact, I think some people have
probably do have an easier timeof things than I do. I don't
know if I'm necessarily built tobe a runner or anything. I just

(01:25:20):
enjoy it. And, yeah, I thinkthat everyone should know that
everyone out there isstruggling. It's just the art is
how you choose to struggle andsuffer and and what you do to
fight against that.

Lynn (01:25:34):
Well, I think you said something super critical early
on in in talking about the therace, which was, I don't need to
finish. And it reminds me ofwhen I was learning to work with
the horse, and Bruce Anderson,who I worked with, said, I don't
want the horse to do thepicture. And I thought he was a

(01:25:54):
lunatic. But then I startedworking with horses a lot more
on my own over at rain rescuenow than I have in the past, and
it's really been pretty stunningwith me. We have a super, super
sensitive Mustang. He's he'sgoing to always be sensitive,
but he's coming along so well.
And the the day that this reallyshowed up for me, it was like a

(01:26:15):
couple of weeks ago. It had beenraining and the trailer was wet.
So the what my picture was is tosee if he put two feet in the
trailer, and this was after I'dalready led him across a bridge,
and we done some really coolthings together. And so I showed
up, and I just was going to askfor him to step forward, and
then if he put, you know, a footor two in the trailer, great,

(01:26:38):
but I really didn't want him todo the picture because it was
wet, so I didn't want him tohave his feet slide out from
under him, sure, and it was theeasiest thing ever, because I
wasn't holding on to the goal,but I was making the ask of him.
And that paradox, like youtalked about earlier, every
truth has a paradox. I'm goingto ask him to put his foot on

(01:27:02):
the trailer, but I don't wanthim to do it. Yeah, creates this
different. I think it's adifferent energy for him, which
is, okay, well, I'll try. And heput, he put a foot on so fast,
it wasn't even funny. And then Ibacked him out and told him he
was a good boy, and we went overand we went over and played with
the ball, which he also didn'twant to have anything to do

(01:27:22):
with. But again, is one of thosebig horse balls. Yeah. Again, I
had no picture. I The picturewas not for him to play with the
ball. It was like, you're goingto have to stand there. Sorry
about this, but this is my ball,and I need to move it over here.
And you just, you know you're onthe end of the lead rope, but
you're just extraneous. And whenI had that view, he was like,
Well, let me check out the ball.

(01:27:44):
But if I had wanted him to checkout the ball, in other words,
that do the picture, he wouldn'thave,

Stevie (01:27:51):
yeah, absolutely. That's really good observation. And
again, such a hard thing, likein horses, because we have
agendas and we we're passing onour human, capitalist paradigms
and needs. Like, it's not reallyour fault that we have time set
goals. That's like, how oursociety happens. Um, and, and I

(01:28:15):
think it's really hard to like,you know, I think a lot of
people probably struggle with,like, not having an agenda with
their horses, because the worldhas agendas for us, and we're
also, like, financially tiedinto outcomes. So again, like,
everything is sort of workingagainst the process or having
process goals. It's very outcomeoriented our society. Like, how

(01:28:40):
much can you produce? How muchcan you win? Like, that's all,
all that matters. Quote,unquote. And again, that's like,
set up. I think that's also, youknow, not like, in a conspiracy
way, but like, I think thatthat's that narrative is set up
to keep us in a state of feelingthat we're not enough. Like,
okay, well, if I can't do thisX, Y and Z and be this

(01:29:03):
productive, then I'm useless tosociety. And that's that is the
message we all receive throughsocial media, through like, from
a young age, and being indocted,indoctrinated through school.
Well, if you can't sit still atthis desk and take these tests
and get A's, you're not x, y, z,you're not enough.

Lynn (01:29:21):
If you talk too much or get in trouble a certain way,
it's going to go on yourpermanent record

Stevie (01:29:28):
exactly, exactly.
There's so much that teaches usnot to be ourselves or to think
that we don't measure up in somecapacity, and again, like that's
hard to not transfer onto ourchildren or transfer onto our
horses. And that's, again, like,I mean, I make money off my
horses, which can, like, youknow, that's like a moral,
ethical wall that I have tointerpret and understand and

(01:29:52):
keep, like, introspectivelyevaluating. Because I sometimes
I'm asking, like, they will.
Tell me no. And I actually thinkit's okay to to still ask
something against a horse's No.
Because I think if you went toask me, Can you run this 50 mile
race, I'd be like, No. Like,there's a lot of no's that my

(01:30:12):
body says. But I think the artisn't then, like getting, like,
convincing, like other humans,the horses, to turn that no
around and being like, you know,like accepting and hearing that
no and saying, I'm sorry, butyou have to do this. And again,
like, I don't know if there is aworld that doesn't look like

(01:30:34):
this, where we could listen toevery No, but I, I think because
we live in this society where wehave, we do have to, like,
produce some outcomes. Let me,let me back up, maybe this is a
better way to explain it. Ithink a lot of people have a lot
of trauma from having to do tonine to five jobs or, like, have

(01:30:56):
a negative experience of theirreality because they have to be
forced to go to work. But Ithink you know that can be
trauma or triumph, that thatnine to five job that maybe
isn't like your favorite thingto do, that can also be a great
framework in which to havestructure and and to see it as
everything is happening for me.

(01:31:17):
Well, this does provide likework friends. This does provide
an income, and though you might,if someone asked you every
morning, do you want to go towork, most people would say no,
but the at the same time, whatwould you be doing instead? And
maybe there's a lot of thingsfor a while that you would be
doing, but I think there is somesome validity to structure. And

(01:31:38):
this is where lately I've beenkind of looking at, like, the
ideas of stoicism, like, Ireally resonate with the Stoics
and their their outlooks oflike, you do have to learn to
like overcome things. And maybefor some people, it's not going
out and doing marathons, maybeit is just going to your nine to
five that you don't love. And Ithink sometimes I think of that

(01:31:59):
for the horses, like, they'rethey're like, I think 80% of
their time is probably spent inthe pasture, probably even,
like, more than that past yearhanging out with friends, and we
have, like, a beautiful,irrigated, like, grassy, 16
acres that they can run aroundon. So they have, like, a pretty
good life. So really, when Itake it into perspective, and
I'm asking them to, like, maybework for an hour, like, a couple

(01:32:21):
hours a week, or, like, do theseraces here and there. It's
really, like a small percentageof their time. I just need to
make sure that, you know, I I'mgiving them the tools that they
can accomplish the things thatI'm asking them to do. But I
have to, you know, that's wherethis, like, really interesting
work is, is understanding thatthey may say, like, No, I don't

(01:32:42):
want to work today. I'm feellazy and like, understanding
when that's like a no, that tobe listened to, because I do
listen to them sometimes, like,if I if I'm like, no, like, and
I can tell it's like, maybe froma physical or like, deeply
mental standpoint, like, I don'treally don't want to work. Then
I will honor that. But then Ican also, like, assess, is this

(01:33:02):
just like you being lazy, slash,you trying to see how much you
can push me around. And this isthe same as, like, drawing
boundaries with other humans,right? Absolutely, like, my
boundary for the horses is,like, you can look at it as a
boundary of me saying you canhave this, like, wonderful,
amazing life. But like, I needyou to, like, walk around with a

(01:33:23):
child on your back for an hour,and though it takes away from
your grazing and napping time,like, I think you'll be okay.
Like, like, I think this will befine. And honestly, most times
they are very happy to come towork like this. Is not often
that I deal with them saying no,and I do honor a lot of their
nos, but I don't think youalways have to. And that's,
again, very interesting talkingabout boundaries, because we're

(01:33:45):
saying, like, well, the horsesput up a boundary of saying no,
but like, I think you have tounderstand what, where that
boundary is coming from. Kind ofthe same with people, like,
knowing when I've had a lot ofriders be like, I can't do that.
A really good example is, did a50 mile ride at the end of the
year last year, in October. Andone of the riders, it was her

(01:34:06):
first endurance ride, and herfirst 50. She had done a 25 with
us earlier in the season, and itwas her first 50. And she was
like, I think my body's gonnagive out. I don't think I can go
out. And I was like, just rideout with us. If you feel bad,
just turn around, ride back. Iwas like, Are you physically in
pain now? And she was like, No,I'm not. Like, what are you
pushing against? She's like, I'mafraid I'm going to be and I was

(01:34:28):
like, okay, yeah, that's notwhat you're experiencing. So
like, ride with us for as longas possible. In the worst case
scenario, you get off and youwalk the horse back to the road,
and they'll come pick you up,like their cell phones, like,
oh, whoa. You know, we kept, um,assessing that, and she ended up
finishing the 50 successfully. Idid that again. That same tactic

(01:34:48):
with a rider at City of rocks inIdaho. It was like 100 degrees
that day. Was really hot day,and she was riding, and I said,
just come out with us. And ifyou like, there's a turning
point on the map. You can, like,ride back to camp really
quickly. And we got there, andshe was like, yeah, actually, if
there's any more downhill, Idon't think my legs can do it.
And I was like, okay, thenyou're done. And she did take

(01:35:09):
that out. She she took it andso, like, and both riders had
said, kind of, no, I don't wantto go back out with the half.
But that's, like, thatincremental process goal thing.
And like, overall, that ended upbeing, like, the best decision
for this rider that decided toquit, she ended up having like,
a dehydration, kind of, like,heat stroke situation way later

(01:35:31):
in the day after we were alldone. And I was like, Wow. Can
you imagine if you had, like,pushed and like Gone, like, you
would have probably been reallysick later and much further away
from help than, like, it wouldhave been a situation. Yeah. So
I felt really good about both ofthose pushes. Like, we pushed
one rider and then she ended uptriumphing, and we pushed

(01:35:52):
another rider and she, like,just came shy of, like, getting
having a trauma situation. Shelike, quit when she was supposed
to. So I think, I think it'sreally interesting pushing those
boundaries of no and like, wheredoes that come from? And I think
that that's a messy area that alot of people that are doing the

(01:36:12):
work and happen to be workingwith horses. So again, in that
spiritual realm, a lot of peopledon't like to get into that
area. And they just like, Ithink it's actually like not
wanting to do hard things, andthe hard thing is like an
emotional level and mentallevel, versus like the physical,
like you're looking at, likeanother being's boundaries, your

(01:36:32):
boundaries. This is really aninteresting area of which, like,
I don't think I'll ever have itfigured out, but I think that's
where the magic is happening andwhere something interesting is
really going on. And I think aspace that a lot more of us
could spend some time in,

Lynn (01:36:48):
I agree, I have found the more I've become interested or
willing to go into discomfort,whatever form it takes, the
richer my life is. And you know,you were talking about the ideas
of stoicism, and something thatcame up for me, which I think is
actually Buddhism instead ofstoicism. But like, what are you

(01:37:09):
going to be doing if you're notgoing to work, or if you're not
trying these hard things, right?
And I think of the ancestors,and I think of the Buddhist
thing that says, Beforeenlightenment, chop wood and
carry water. Afterenlightenment, chop wood and
carry water. You know, we stillhave to have our you know,
whether our livelihood is comingthrough money or we're out on my

(01:37:32):
own, you know, chopping wood andcarrying water and hunting for
our food, life involves doingsome stuff.

Stevie (01:37:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Unfortunately, something thatI've, like, really pushed
against, and my own actualexistential spiritual journey is
like, I really don't like theidea that life is suffering, but
it's kind of true. It's kind ofsomething I've had to accept. I
love Karen Wolf's love it orchange it. That is my she uses
that in relation to horsetraining, but that works for
everything. And I think thatthat's where why people seek out

(01:38:05):
endurance sports are difficultthings, because you can either
experience the suffering in, inthe shrinking, right, like in,
like, if you step back fromtrying to do anything hard,
things still are hard, like, itjust that rubber band of that
surrounds you shrinks downaround to the lowest common
common denominator of yourself,if you don't keep stretching

(01:38:27):
that band outward so you caneither choose your own suffering
so that the everyday becomeseasy, or you can shrink, not do
the hard things and be reallystressed out by those small day
to day living,

Lynn (01:38:44):
yep, what? Stretch,

Stevie (01:38:49):
yeah, exactly

Lynn (01:38:51):
change it. That's a great it's and it's actually not that
far. There's an H HGTV showcalled Love It or List It and
and actually, what'sinteresting, and this is, this
is why I think we really do haveto recognize how easy it is to
just stay where we are. Ihaven't ever like gone and done
the statistics on that show, butin in that where it's like,

(01:39:13):
we're going to remodel yourhouse and we're also going to
find you a new house, and thenyou get to choose whether to
love your remodeled house orlist the list it and sell. You
know, go find the new one. Ithink, like 80% of the people
stay after the remodel. Yeah,and, but the but it is after a
remodel. It's not after and soit's like, either way, they're

(01:39:34):
changing it, right? Love it orchange it. In both cases,
they're changing it. And I thinkthat's just a great mantra to
live by, rather than worry aboutit or bitch about it, or, you
know, or you know, complainingis the same thing. But you know,
instead of those things, justchange it.

Stevie (01:39:50):
I really love I was kind of like a light bulb moment for
me about like complaining andresisting things like resist.
Complaints in your mind orcomplaining about something, is
this, like, absolutely insanebelief that by not liking
something, without any action,it'll change, like, if you

(01:40:11):
really think about why you'recomplaining, like, I looked deep
into like, why am I complainingabout this? I thought that
somehow, and I think it's likenot being an adult, right? Like
it's that, because this isprobably proved true as a child,
that, like, if you complainabout something, maybe a parent
or someone else will change yoursituation. But as you grow up,
you kind of realize you are theperson who saves you, which is

(01:40:33):
like a big, big aha moment, andnot to I am absolutely for all
spirituality. But there'ssomething that has always, like,
unsettled me growing upCatholic, which was like,
putting the responsibility ofbeing saved outside of your
body, like outside of yourcontrol, and into somebody else,
like that gives like, absolutecontrol over your situation to

(01:40:54):
someone else. And I just don'tagree with that. Like I've come
to see, I think I've seen thetruth for me like this might not
be the same for other people,but the truth for me is, like
that big recognition that it'sboth humbling and terrifying,
which is, you are the one thatsaves you. You are the only
person that can be the adult,the only person that's going to
change things for you. Like,there's no one else that's

(01:41:15):
coming to save you. There's no,you know, romantic knight in
shining armor. Like, although,you know, my husband was
definitely a good catalyst for,like, helping me become a better
person, it was like, not hisresponsibility or or ability to
change who I am that's totallyup to me. And like, we are
always taught, like, throughreligion, through movies,

(01:41:36):
romance, all these things thatsomeone else is going to change
things for you, and that is justthis, like, unfortunately,
delusional belief that we haveas kids, right? Like, mom and
dad will make things better. Andthen you grow up and you realize
it's just you, it's just you.
And that's, like, terrifying,but also empowering, like you
also have, like, you don't haveto give that away to anyone. You
have all the power to make allthe difference, which is really

(01:41:58):
great, right? And, and so youhave the power to either love
your situation or to change it,and you really do, and that, you
know, I think I've mentionedthis to you before. Lynn, we
were talking about, like, in mymind, an adult is someone who
doesn't blame anyone foranything like their situation,
how they feel, like trueadulting is taking radical

(01:42:21):
responsibility for everythingyou experience.

Lynn (01:42:26):
I think that's so powerful, and I What's
interesting about the idea ofcomplaining. I had a teacher
once show me that if you canactually pay attention to your
complaints, it will show youwhat you're committed to that's
good. And then if you can'tchange it, it's because

(01:42:47):
somewhere buried in there is abig assumption about how the
world is going to fall apart ifyou actually change it, like if
I actually confront my motherabout this thing, just by way of
a quick example, then she'sgoing to hate me, and I've lost
my relationship with her.

(01:43:07):
Yeah, and,you know, whatever it might be.
And I actually have a process Itake people through to help them
uncover and what's sointeresting is they never have
questioned that level of theirassumption before, like they'll
have a first half, which is,well, my mom's really difficult,
you know, we don't, we don'tconfront her. It's like, Yeah,
but deeper under there is whathappens if you do well, she'll

(01:43:28):
hate me and I'm disowned, orsomething along those lines.
Your big assumptions have thatkind of flavor to them. And so
again, like, we can, we can hatepressure, we can hate
complaining, we can hate thesethings, or we can use them to
point us in the right direction,because they're great tools for
self awareness.

Stevie (01:43:50):
Yeah, absolutely, that's really cool that you go to those
levels. Because I think, youknow, like, especially in
pursuit of things in business,right? Like, we think of those
as somewhat impersonal, but, or,or, like, goals, like, I think
that's the cool thing again,coming back to endurance sports,

(01:44:10):
because that's my life. But youthink that, Oh, it's just about
running, or it's just aboutriding the horses. But in fact,
in these, like, very allconsuming goals, you end up
having to go internal, becausethe external actually turns out
to be a lot easier than you everexpected. It's it all points
back to, like, what's theinternal temperature and weather

(01:44:31):
that's happening inside of you?
Like, that that has to changefor the external to, like, even
feel good, like, maybe youaccomplish the things externally
that happens a lot in business,right? Like they make, they make
the CEO job, they make thesalary they wanted, but it
doesn't feel good. So none ofthe external validations are
going to be meaningful ifthere's not the internal
validation and understanding

Lynn (01:44:55):
that's the work, that's the work, that's the work, and
it's deep. I've been. Thinking alot about it, because I've
noticed that a lot of times weapproach things sort of three or
four levels above the place thatthe real work is happening. You
know that those big assumptionsthat under, underneath stuff,
the place where the pressurehits us, where it creates that

(01:45:17):
discomfort, that feeling ofagitation, that's where the work
is. And usually we're so busytrying to get rid of the
agitation that we haven't evenrealized the agitation is
pointing us to what we're tryingto achieve.

Stevie (01:45:31):
Yeah, I would say, going back to this being, for whatever
reason, a more difficult yearfor me and endurance, I've
noticed. I've not figured it outyet, but I've definitely felt
more agitation as you're usingthe word and in doing endurance
sports, like I I'm like, okay,am I even enjoying this right

(01:45:52):
now? And I'm like, trying to becognizant of, like, I should be
enjoying this, like, I get toride a horse, like, we're, like,
quite successful on these rides.
Like, obviously, like how weplace and how we finish is like,
not affecting my joy. And I'mtrying to, you know, I, I do, I
do think too. We do have to,like, if we do achieve our
outcome goals, we really do needto celebrate those things, like

(01:46:13):
take joy in whatever you can andall the steps along the way. But
I've definitely been trying todo the work. And why am I
showing up differently thisyear? And what does that mean?
And sometimes it's, it's justnot clear. And I've definitely
thought, like, my mind gives methat option, like, maybe you
shouldn't be doing this. Like,don't do these. Like, don't do
these rides, like you're notgetting the joy out of them. But

(01:46:35):
weirdly, I have this, like, deepdrive that's like, no, if you're
not enjoying this. You're goingto keep doing this until you
figure it out. Like somethingthat's like, keep signing up for
these races, keep doing thething, keep, you know, figure it
out. And I'm just trying to,like, it's just an interesting
like, pattern that I've built ahabit that is, like, to keep

(01:46:55):
pushing. And I think that is,like, a really privileged,
wonderful habit that I'vecreated, and that my I have the
option to back out, but I'm notgoing to learn anything there
and and though I feel stuck, andI think I'm coming to this,
like, if you're an endurancewriter, listening to this,
actually read someone's post,post Tevis. That was like, this

(01:47:16):
was my fourth attempt at Tevis.
I have done everything. Like,done all the work, like, really
prepared, like, different horseevery time. Like, it's like a
very like heartbreaking story.
And like, there are a lot oflike, heartbreaking stories in
Tevis, like, you can show upwith all the tools. And like, I
mean, that trail is justdifficult. It was like, a 39%
completion rate this year, andit was just like, and last year

(01:47:36):
too. You know, like, last yearwas super hot. This year, the
vetting was a little bit moredifficult. I'm not exactly sure
what contributed to such a lowcompletion rate this year,
because honestly, I thought theweather was amazing. There were
only about 100 horses on trailwhich had less dust, less
congestion. It was kind of greatas a competitor, not great for

(01:47:58):
the organization trying toactually turn, you know, like
break even, which they did notexactly, but you know, like
there were a lot of likeelements that aligned anyhow,
surprising two years of 39%completion rate, which means if
you're going to Tevis, there's ahigher chance that you won't
finish that then you will by farOver like the and I think over

(01:48:20):
time too. I think the overallcompletion over time has been
46% completion rate. So you likeagain, always statistically
probable that you won't finishover you well. And where was I
going with that?

Lynn (01:48:35):
You said she came out to you, you know, you were talking
to endurance writers, you know,and one in particular who had
sort of this feeling of feelingbad about not completing you
were going to probably offersome good advice, I think,

Stevie (01:48:52):
yeah, I was just, you know, I was really moved by
that, because I could relate tothat, Because I DNF to my first
three tevises, and that, youknow, it was, it was hard, but
actually, I don't know where Iwas going with that. I know
where it's going with that, butreading her post of having I

(01:49:16):
don't know we're gonna have toedit this out. Lynn, going with
that. What were we talking aboutjust before that,

Lynn (01:49:26):
before, right before that, we were just talking about like
you were still staying in thegrind because you didn't want to
let yourself out. And for theall that you said, sort of you
started with for all thoseendurance writers out there, I
read these posts. And so youwere talking about something
about you staying in the in thegrind, even though part of you

(01:49:48):
wants to leave,

Stevie (01:49:50):
yeah. That's, I think that's it was just, I know that
a lot of people like struggle,like, maybe they have, like,
reoccurring injuries with theirhorse. I hear. About that a lot.
I I had asked earlier this yearon the aerc Facebook page, which
has a lot of members, like, whatis, what is stopping you from,
like, doing a ride? Becausethere's a lot of members on

(01:50:10):
there that actually don'tcompete. And I was just curious,
because I'm on a few boards thathave to do with endurance
riding, and we're, like,dwindling in numbers. And I'm
like, What's preventing peoplefrom getting into the sport? And
there was, like, a mirror,sport? And there was, like, a
myriad of answers, and a lot ofit was, like, kind of
disheartening, right? Like, it'sthe again, they were focusing on
outcome goals, which is reallyhard not to because, like, we've

(01:50:33):
been saying, society is pushingthose outcome goals. Like, did
you get a buckle at Tevis? Didyou finish and and endurance
writing, unfortunately, is like,you only get the miles if you
complete, right, like, so you,you know. And there's even been
chats of, like, what if we did,like, a 50 mile ride, and if you
get to 36 miles, you get 36miles. But that's it. That's

(01:50:53):
been a consideration, which atfirst I, like, wanted to push
against, but I'm like, maybebecause, like, who cares?
Ultimately, like, it should beabout going out and having this,
like, supported ride anotherSally, who rode Tevis last year
with us and finished on Sonic,she had made a post that was,

(01:51:14):
like, thought provoking about,you know, would we even if it
wasn't for our egos? Would weeven compete in endurance
riding? And I was like, youknow, actually, I would, because
I, you know, she said if, if youdidn't have an ego, you would
just go out and ride your horse.
And I was like, actually, no,because in an endurance ride,
it's supported, like, I havewater out on trail, I have
events. So, like, it is possibleto ride endurance without ego.

(01:51:35):
And I think, you know, wheneveryone is pushing for outcome
goals. It really switches ourego on to being like that's what
we need to feel happier, feelaccomplished. And I think to in
response to this lady feelingthat you know, not finishing
these four years in a row. Ifyou look at all the top riders,

(01:51:55):
most of them are about 5050, andthat's, that's crazy, right?
These people have done Tevisover and over and over again.
You know, have, like, you know,there's some that have, like,
outstanding records for whateverreason, and they obviously have
a secret that we don't knowabout, but, like, there'll be
people with 20 buckles, but thenthey'll have like, 15 starts
where they didn't finish. Youknow, they're just, like,

(01:52:17):
showing up every year, over andover and over again. And last
year, when we had finished, Ihad said to myself, like, I
always want to bring horses toTevis, because at least for me,
the process of getting a horseready for Tevis, it fine tunes
so many things, and it reallyhelps my process goals. So,
like, I would never put thatmuch money and time and effort

(01:52:38):
into the horses, just becauseit's, like, unrealistic, like, I
mean, we are like, paying like,extra money for saddle fitting,
doing all the stuff, becauseTevis is, like, probably 10
times harder than any other 100.
There's just nothing like it.
It's just a wildly differentexperience. And so for me, it
feels like a gauntlet that youneed to pass through to, like,
really test your horsemanshipskills. And it's like, really

(01:52:59):
checks me and humbles me. Butit's like that process, right?
Like, and that process takeseverything, like blood, sweat,
tears leading up to it, and thenit's just a roll of the dice
when you get there. And Itotally understand, like, it was
heartbreaking for me, because Iwas doing that all the years. I
didn't finish too Right. Like,and it just does feel like a

(01:53:20):
roll of the dice. Like, like Isaid this year I didn't have
that as much of an attachmentsince I already had a buckle
from the year before. And I waslike, Alex, if you don't feel
good, like, just let me know.
And we just kept trucking. Andsomehow it happened, and it was
like the weirdest thing to,like, get the buckle this year
without really wanting it, like,I was very happy I got it, but

(01:53:43):
it was like, I don't know, justa such a different feeling and,
and I just want people to knowthat aren't, aren't completing,
like, if you show up to Tevis,it just means so much, and that
that has to be a really biglike, The process. Like, you
should, you should be?

Lynn (01:54:01):
Yeah, what I heard, this is going to sound like a weird
analogy, but to me, it's likesaying, you know, I go to the
gym because the gym makes mefeel good, like the gym is a
process of keeping me fit. Andit doesn't mean I have to go to
a bodybuilding competition. Andeven if I do go to a
bodybuilding competition, Idon't have to win. But I did the

(01:54:23):
preparation. I got my body fit,and in a much more complex way,
you've gotten yourself ready.
You've gotten horses ready,you've gotten your mindset ready
for this huge, 10 times harderchallenge than any other 100 and
that, in and of itself, is areward

Stevie (01:54:41):
Absolutely and it makes, you know, again, like setting
these HARD goals for ourselves,it makes all the other rides
feel easier, you know, like,again, like, choose your
suffering, right? So if you'reif you're choosing stuff outside
of your work life that arethat's challenging, then maybe
going to work isn't going tofeel so difficult. And. That is
why we do these difficultthings, because then we just

(01:55:03):
learn how to handle the processbetter and to like then create
joy in the day to day. Thechopping of the wood becomes so
much easier, for sure.

Lynn (01:55:13):
So the other thing that's striking me is, who are you
doing it for? Because so manytimes I make a distinction
between my mindset when it'seither in a proving mode or an
improving mode, and in myproving mode, I can almost
always tell you I'm trying toprove it not to myself, but to
somebody else. And so now I'veput my goals outside of myself,

(01:55:37):
waiting for somebody else'sapproval to tell me I did
something

Stevie (01:55:41):
and for the people that matter again, people have heard
people who know me have heard mesay this before, but I think
it's so important to know thatnobody that cares about you
cares about how you do. Theyonly care about how you feel
about how you do. So they justwant you to be happy, and they
don't care what that looks like.
They don't care that you won,you know, like they and if they

(01:56:03):
do, that's like, really arelationship you should probably
look into. Like, yeah, like, youdon't want friends that only
want you if you're winning.
Like, that's that's not thethat's not what you're looking
for. You're looking for thepeople that want you to be
happy.

Lynn (01:56:21):
That's so profound. Stevie Man, what a what a conversation,
what a ride. I think we couldkeep going for hours, but I
didn't make that promise to youthat we'd gotta keep you for the
whole afternoon. So as as westart to wrap up, what's next
for you and what would you wantpeople to know about like, like,

(01:56:43):
say somebody wanted to come ridewith you, or do something like
that. So start with the what'snext for you

Stevie (01:56:49):
Sure. So if you're training, especially if you're
training for the Gaucho Derby,Derby or Mongol derbies, we do
training boot camps for that,but I really enjoy taking people
who are interested in gettinginto endurance out on like intro
to endurance boot camps. I willbe releasing dates for those in

(01:57:10):
November of this year. For nextyear, I definitely do some horse
leases for endurance, but we'rekind of moving away from that
and focusing more on boot camps.
I'll do smaller leases, so maybeonly taking one or two people
out on races next year. And Ialso do, like, one on one
lessons. I don't do remotecoaching. I do I will coach you

(01:57:30):
and your horse if you come tome, and I will coach you if you
come to me. But just I have alot of people ask, and that's
just not where my strength is inhelping. So I am looking forward
to focusing on doing a lot oflike three day retreats, also
called boot camps, in the nextyear again, releasing those
dates in November. Follow me onInstagram is actually the best

(01:57:54):
space which I'm at. Adventurouslike u r, i s t adventurous
Barbie, not you'll you'll knowit's me. There's lots of horses
on those photos, and that'swhere I release the most
information. Or on Facebook, I'mStevie Delahunt, and I have a
website that I need to get toupdating, but that's

(01:58:15):
intergalactic equine. So prettyunique business name. We're
intergalactic equine andintergalactic equine.com so
those are the ways you can reachout to me. And yeah, I'm looking
forward to connecting withpeople who want to connect with
horses, like we even do a coupleweekends, where it's like, not
even much riding, but like justhaving a deeper, more profound

(01:58:36):
connection to horses and naturethrough ourselves. So I do a
little bit of that, but mybiggest focus is getting people
into the idea of endurancesports with horses, so being
able to push yourself and pushanother animal and understanding
those boundaries.

Lynn (01:58:53):
I've gotten to do a couple of your boot camp. I've ridden
with you four times now, and I'mgoing to be doing it again. Just
let everybody know I want to getahead of everybody in line to
come to your boot camp, and I'llbe

Stevie (01:59:06):
messaging you first, because, yeah, we have get to
have awesome conversations likethis when

Lynn (01:59:12):
recorded all of those, but the man the the boot camps are
just amazing and and justworking with someone who is so
very real about the ups anddowns. There's just no sugar
coating with you, Stevie, whichI think is really, really
powerful,

Stevie (01:59:30):
awesome. Well, thank you, Lynn, that's very kind of
you to say. And so much funtalking with you again. I always
feel like we can talk forever,yeah,

Lynn (01:59:41):
and we will, more than likely, I can't imagine that we
won't do this again. This is oneof the reasons I keep the
podcast going, is because I dothink it's really interesting to
have people on more than once,because we're all on a journey,
and every now and then, it'snice to just check in and say,
Hey, how's it going, or how's itbeen. And so I appreciate you
coming back for the. Us.

Stevie (02:00:01):
Yeah, thank you for having me. And yeah, I'm so
excited to hear about how yourupcoming water ski competition
goes.

Lynn (02:00:08):
Yeah, for, well, for not for me, but for Austin, because
I don't do competitions, but I'mvery excited to hear how his
mindset works through the wholething. And at some point, I
haven't had him on the podcastyet, but I'm going to be working
on getting him on as well.
Because, boy, do we. We havethese conversations, but they're
in two minute increments at theend of the lake, as one of us is
dropping and we're waiting forthe waves to settle down.

Stevie (02:00:31):
Oh my gosh, I would love to hear that, especially like
with a shift to process goals,because I'm that's so
interesting.

Lynn (02:00:37):
It's been it's really been interesting because there is a
difference, by the way, betweenespousing that your mindset has
changed and then actually trulyliving that your mindset has
changed.

Stevie (02:00:51):
Oh yeah, we could have a whole podcast on that. That's

Lynn (02:00:54):
that's a whole concept, right there. So, but we can
leave people with wanting more.
Sounds good. As we close thisout, I just want to say to
everybody listening, thank youfor being here. And if you're
interested, you've just heardfrom Stevie on how to get in
touch with her. If you'reinterested in staying in touch
with me, I put out somethingalmost every week at the

(02:01:14):
coaching digest, and you cansign up for that at Lynn at at
Lynn carnes.com THANK YOU.
There's a place on lyncarns.comfor you to sign up with that
we'll see you on the nextpodcast. Thank you for listening
to the creative spiritsunleashed podcast. I started
this podcast because I washaving these great

(02:01:36):
conversations, and I wanted toshare them with others. I'm
always learning in theseconversations, and I wanted to
share that kind of learning withyou. Now, what I need to hear
from you is what you want moreof and what you want less of. I
really want these podcasts to beof value for the listeners.
Also, if you happen to knowsomeone who you think might love
them, please share the podcastand, of course, subscribe and

(02:01:58):
rate it on the different appsthat you're using, because
that's how others will find it.
Now, I hope you go and dosomething very fun today.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#97 Stevie Delahunt: Balancing Fear and Confidence in Endurance Sports

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#97 Stevie Delahunt: Balancing Fear and Confidence in Endurance Sports

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