October 27, 2025 • 28 mins
From combat engineer to creative conjurer, discover how Joseph Bolton merges magic, ancestry and the northern lights in his new-found love for writing folklore and fantasy.
Joseph joined the US Army straight out of high school, and in his 25 years of service graduated from West Point and Ranger School and worked as a combat engineer (a role that involved building bridges and blowing things up), an infantry officer, and even a space operations officer.
After the passing of his younger brother from ALS in 2013, Joseph felt a profound need to reflect on the value of time and growing older. This led him first to an expressive blog and eventually to the highly unusual creative project that would define his next chapter.
The Old Grandmother’s Tree collection of stories began life as a charming French Canadian folktale about farm animals (who surprisingly 'smoke cigars and drink wine'), and soon became a series of highly illustrated tales rooted in Joseph's ancestry and featuring magic, ghosts, and trickster animal characters – a magic shawl with the colour of the northern lights was a feature of the first short story and later became the genesis for the entire series.
Joseph is a highly visual writer who sees stories unfold 'as a movie within my mind', and collaborates with artists Masami Kiyono and Natasha Pelley-Smith to create this unique hybrid format – a series so heavily illustrated it features close to 700 images across its first three volumes, blurring the line between a traditional novel and a graphic novel.
This episode offers a compelling look at how creativity can emerge in unexpected moments and how personal loss can spark artistic expression. It's a must-listen for anyone interested in family history, creative late-blooming, and the surprising ways our life experiences shape our storytelling.
Find the Old Grandmother's Tree books here
Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
Music: Day Trips by Ketsa Undercover / Ketsa Creative Commons License Free Music Archive - Ketsa - Day Trips
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Podcast recorded with Riverside and hosted by Buzzsprout
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joseph Bolton (00:07):
As a teenager in high school, I was very, very
rough and rugged.
I was a wrestler, I was afootball player, I wasn't afraid
of being tough.
I liked physical competition,and so the army was a natural
fit.
I had been out of the army fora few years, and then after you
know my brother's passing away,ALS is what he died of, which
(00:29):
was a terrible disease to have.
And I really felt that need toreflect about time and about the
value of time and about growingolder.
The stories just hit me, and Ididn't expect to do it.
I wasn't necessarily evenlooking for it.
It's just that it came to me.
And then when it's there, it'slike a damn burst.
(00:49):
But I think internally, it'shelped me feel like I have a
place.
I know my place within theworld.
I know where I came from.
I know how I connect back tothat world of the past.
Claire Waite Brown (01:04):
Hi, I'm Claire.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or refound
their creativity as adults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the art, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love, and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the
two.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
(01:28):
their newfound artistic pursuit.
And how their creative livesenrich their practical,
necessary, everyday lives.
Hi Joseph, how are you?
Joseph Bolton (01:43):
Oh, hello, Claire.
I'm doing very well.
How are you?
Claire Waite Brown (01:46):
I'm very good, thank you.
Start by telling me about thecreative activity that you came
to in adulthood.
Joseph Bolton (01:55):
Well, I was a uh I was a longtime Army officer.
I retired in 2007, and I reallydidn't start writing until a
few years after I retired fromthe Army.
I started right after the deathof my younger brother, who died
in 2013 of ALS.
And it left me with a sense ofgrief and longing.
(02:15):
And so I began a blog and Iwould muse on science, religion,
philosophy, mathematics,whatever came to my mind.
I didn't care if anybody evenread it.
It was just something for me.
And uh towards the end of thatproject, I started to write a
creative little story and put itinto the blog.
(02:35):
And it was a charming littleFrench-Canadian folk tale of
farm animals in Quebec, the turnof the 20th century, waking up
under the moonlight and taking atoboggan and sliding down the
hill outside the barn to becaught by the farm wife, who
instead of scolding them,decides to toboggan down with
(02:55):
them.
It was a cute little story, andI worked with an artist and I
created it, and I even actuallypublished it just as a single
little short story.
I realized, though, that Ienjoyed that.
It was kind of a strange bookin some ways.
The animals did things likesmoke cigars and drink wine.
And around that same time, Ialso was researching my own
French-Canadian ancestors on mymother's side.
(03:18):
My mother's grandparents wereall born in Quebec.
So I discovered them.
And I also discovered anAlgonquin woman was one of my
ancestors who lived in the 17thcentury.
And she had a very remarkablestory.
And just by some coincidence,the farm woman who was actually
based on my great-grandmother,Delia Mernier, she is a
(03:40):
descendant of this Algonquinwoman.
And of course, I am as wellthrough her.
And so immediately there waslike a potential for a
connection of this story.
So I said, I'm going to write abackstory.
And the interesting thing aboutthe creative process is
sometimes you do things when youwrite or you illustrate.
I think subconsciously we putsomething in the story that
(04:03):
we're not aware of at aconscious level, but it'll pop
up in significance later on asyou continue to write.
And the same thing with thisstory, and that was a magic
shawl who had the color of thenorthern lights.
That was in the first storywith Delia Mernier, the farm
wife.
And the backstory became thatthis shawl originally belonged
(04:23):
to her Algonquin ancestor,Mitio Goku, again, real woman.
And it was passed downgeneration to generation.
And so that became the genesisof what I have now, two-volume
set of stories.
And there's like, oh, I guessabout 12 stories right now, I
think, with the third volumecoming out here in just a couple
of weeks.
And fully illustrated.
(04:44):
I think I'm going to be up tolike about 700 illustrations,
full illustrations in all threeof these volumes.
So it's a very exciting series,and it's very well received.
And people who look at thisbook, they're like, what?
I describe it to them.
You're doing a folk tale onyour real ancestors and their
farm and talking animals, butit's based on a real story.
(05:05):
And they're really confuseduntil I hand them the book and
they're like, Oh, I get it.
This is really cool.
Claire Waite Brown (05:10):
Yeah.
I can understand why people saythat, but also because it seems
very different from the thestory of your life that you're
going to tell me about now andthe writing that you've done
beforehand.
Joseph Bolton (05:21):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (05:22):
Let's go with when you were younger at
school and at home.
Were creative activitiesencouraged?
Were they a part of your lifein whatever form they may have
taken?
Joseph Bolton (05:34):
Well, as a child, I was very imaginative.
And I would like to createadventures with the other
children in the neighborhoodwhere I grew up.
And in my mind, the way Ipresented it to them is that
this was real.
That we weren't pretending.
We had real adventures and uhall kinds of things you can
think of.
And one most biggest one we didwas that we all pretended we
(05:58):
were soldiers fighting theBritish because the British were
coming back.
I was like eight, nine yearsold at the time.
And so the kid, neighborhoodkids, they all went along with
it.
But they all told me they allknew it was a bunch of baloney.
And I'm like, okay, I guess so.
But and then as I got older, Iwrote poetry.
You know, lovesick uh teenageboys would have a tendency to
(06:19):
do.
And I didn't continue that intocollege.
But you know, in between thattime period, I I really didn't
write.
But I think I was always aperson of imagination, a person
who saw possibilities andconnectedness.
And I think that became thebasis for my creativity today.
Claire Waite Brown (06:39):
And when you were at school then, did you
did you always want to go intothe armed forces?
Was that something you wantedto do when you grew up, or you
didn't know what you wanted todo when you grew up?
Joseph Bolton (06:50):
First I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a
little kid, and then I kind ofbacked off from that.
But I had uncles that were inthe army when I was a child, so
one of them served in Vietnam.
So I had that that kind of rolemodel to look to.
And so I wanted to be tough andI wanted to be in the army.
And, you know, as a kid, as ateenager, high school, I was
very, very rough and rugged.
(07:10):
I was a wrestler, I was afootball player, I wasn't afraid
of being tough.
I liked physical competition,and so the army was a natural
fit.
But in some ways, though, itwas not a really good fit
because my own personality wasvery different from the way a
lot of other army, um, otherarmy officers, I was an officer,
(07:31):
I graduated from West Point,and I think it was a little
different.
It always created a little bitof a tension because I tension
because I saw the world a littledifferently.
But nevertheless, I did survivethrough.
Interesting enough, though,none of my stories are really
based on the army experience atall.
Totally separate from that.
Claire Waite Brown (07:48):
An interesting escape, perhaps.
What roles did you have in theArmy?
Joseph Bolton (07:53):
Well, I enlisted right out of high school and I
was 18 years old, left home, andI became a combat engineer.
I remember going into therecruiter's office, and he asked
me, I want to go to collegesomeday.
I said, Yes.
And he said, Well, what do youwant to do?
I said, I want to be anengineer, like think a
mechanical engineer.
That was my first call.
Well, I got the job for you.
(08:14):
Combat engineer, he said it.
And what a combat engineerturned out to be was somebody
who built bridges and blew upstuff with demolitions.
Very different.
And then while I was there, thedrill instructors asked for
volunteers for airbornetraining, and so I volunteered
for that because I was just 18years old and didn't know any
better.
So at 18 years old, I wasjumping out of planes and went
(08:36):
to Fort Bragg.
And then because I was, youknow, I was a relatively smart
kid and I had high test scores,they asked me if I was
interested in applying to WestPoint from the enlisted ranks,
and so I did.
And West Point for so manyenlisters is very is like kind
of like the equivalent ofSandhurst, actually.
Just a side note, when I was atWest Point, one of my spring
breaks, we had a club, amilitary club.
(08:58):
Military club within a militarycollege.
But anyway, what we did was forspring break, we went to
Sandhurst and spent the week upthere with the cadets, which was
a very interesting experienceas well.
Claire Waite Brown (09:09):
Wow.
So then what happens after WestPoint that gives you more
opportunities?
Joseph Bolton (09:14):
Well, I became an infantry officer.
I went to graduated from theU.S.
Army's Rangers School, which islike a commando course, and I
served for several jobs andassignments, and then I
eventually became promoted towhat I became a major.
I became a space operationsofficer for the Army, and I
served a year in Afghanistan.
(09:35):
I was in a general staffheadquarters, and uh I also
worked with soldiers fromvarious countries, including
Canada and Great Britain,France, Germany, Poland, all
there at the headquarters withus.
Claire Waite Brown (09:49):
And did you have a family?
Joseph Bolton (09:50):
Yes, I uh I married not too far long after I
graduated from West Point.
I have two daughters, both ofthem in their early 30s now.
Claire Waite Brown (09:58):
Okay, so how long did you stay in the army?
And then I know that youretired.
So then what happened?
What did you do after that?
Because that doesn't meanyou're retiring and and
retiring, retiring.
Joseph Bolton (10:09):
Well, today it does.
Actually, I retired uh Monda umTuesday was the last day.
Oh wow.
Yes.
So anyway, when I gradu I I dida long time in the army, you
know, from enlisted ranks when Iwas a private soldier through
West Point, which is a militaryacademy.
You're in the army during theschool, then graduated
afterwards.
I retired in 2007.
(10:29):
So it was about 25 years, Ithink, total time that I was in
the army.
And initially when I got out, Ididn't want to have anything to
do with the military.
I figured I've been doing themilitary my entire adult life.
So let's see what else is outthere.
I tried another job, didn'treally work.
And so I ended up going backinto government service as a
civilian for the Department ofDefense as a contractor.
(10:51):
And so that's what I prettymuch did from 2007 up until
yesterday.
And yesterday I startedteaching at a small little
Catholic school inMassachusetts, about 25 minutes
from here, teaching uh religion,actually.
Which I like.
I like teaching, I like beingwith the kids.
Claire Waite Brown (11:11):
Yeah.
You did some teaching as well,previous uh believe.
Joseph Bolton (11:15):
Yes, I actually did take some time off from
being a contractor and I taughtmathematics at the same school.
But then I I had a job offeroffer, and actually it worked
out well because I needed moneyto finish my first two books,
Old Grandmother's Tree.
So while taking a break gave metime to write the stories, but
(11:38):
doing the art and actuallybuilding of the books took
money.
I had to it took that job so Ican get that funds to do it.
So I actually did that for awhile.
Claire Waite Brown (11:47):
Before we get to the Old Grandmother's
Tree books, which are a veryspecific form of book, were you
dabbling in writing before that,whether in the army when you
were teaching, you know, wasthat anything that came in?
Joseph Bolton (12:01):
No, except for the blog, as I mentioned, that I
started after my brother's uhdeath, I started writing, and
that was just something formyself was just kind of amusing.
Some of the articles I wroteactually did go national, uh
national recognition and uhplay, but I really haven't
written in that in a long time.
I think after if you'reblogging, um you come to a point
(12:26):
where you've kind of said youfeel like you said everything
you wanted to say.
And at that point you kind ofarrive at a fork.
You know, you're gonna gopolitics one way or the other,
or you're gonna go down somekind of rabbit hole.
And I just didn't want to dothat.
I kind of felt I had said itand I did.
And so the blog is pretty muchat hiatus, but that's pretty
much what I was doing before Istarted writing Old
(12:48):
Grandmother's Tree.
Claire Waite Brown (12:49):
And was it cathartic doing that writing?
Joseph Bolton (12:52):
For my brother, yeah, absolutely it was.
You know, I I had been out ofthe army for a few years, and
then after, you know, mybrother's passing away, ALS is
what what he died of, which is aterrible disease to have.
And I really felt that need toreflect about time and about the
value of time and about growingolder.
(13:13):
I was 49 when he passed away.
So you you get into that, I wasgetting to the age where, you
know, I'm not young anymore, andthings are starting to change
in my own life.
And so it was very catharticbecause it really gave me a time
to really gather my thoughts.
And I think also it really kindof brought forth that creative
instinct or spark within myselfthat I really didn't really
(13:37):
address before when I was in thearmy.
There was no time for that inthe army, and there really
wasn't the the means to reallydo it anyway.
I was so focused and on that atthe time.
But it really gave me a time tokind of reset, reflect, and
practice those skills ofcommunication.
Claire Waite Brown (13:54):
Yeah.
And then that can expand intowhat comes next.
So tell me about how you becameinterested in folklore, in your
ancestry.
Tell me about how that thenbecomes the new series.
Joseph Bolton (14:10):
Well, as a child, I was always fascinated with
folklore and folktales,regardless of the culture.
But I've always read folk talesfrom all over the world and
whatever culture from Europeancultures, Asian cultures, and
even Native American cultures,and that all gave me a sense of
what a folk tale is.
(14:31):
And I realized, especially as Ibegan these book series, that
there's a language to folktales.
So that's one part.
The other part is I was alwayscurious about my family, my
mother's family, especially upin Quebec.
And growing up, we only knewmaybe up to our
great-great-grandparents, butbeyond that, there was kind of a
veil.
And this is back in the 70s andthe 80s.
(14:53):
We didn't have the tools thatwe have, not research or family.
But once I had those tools, theinternet, Ancestry.com,
Genie.com, those ancestrywebsites.
I gave my mother and hersiblings a DNA test, which was
very interesting.
Growing up, we always weretold, you know, we're 100%
French.
(15:13):
And the truth is the DNA testtold a very interesting but
different story, that they weremostly French, but they were
also mixed with things likeEnglish, which I thought was
very interesting.
I didn't know where they camefrom, but also Native American
ancestors from Quebec.
And that led me to thediscovery of this one ancestor
(15:36):
whose life was very welldocumented by the Jesuit priests
up in Quebec and her remarkablestory.
So I here am, I have my love offolk tales.
I have a connection to myancestors now that I understand
who they are.
And then I have this oneancestor in particular, this
woman, who's had a veryremarkable life, an adventurous
(15:58):
life, and then it all kind ofcame together and to tell the
story.
And when people have notableancestors, it's very common for
people to say, I'm going towrite a novel about, you know,
I'm descended from somebodyreally famous, and they write
them about it and they write ahistorical fiction.
So it's not unknown.
But I did a little differently.
I took the basic story, thebasic facts, but I kind of
(16:23):
really immersed it in this wholeworld of magic and folk tales
and Native American trickstercharacters.
And I did that because I wantedto tell a deeper story.
I wanted to really bring outthe feelings and the emotions
and the living as a human beingwhat that meant at that time
(16:44):
period.
And so the folk folk tale andthe folklore style and like
stories is a language that I'musing to tell the story.
Claire Waite Brown (16:54):
Yeah, that allows you to do it in this way.
Tell me about the illustration.
You were very keen to combinethis writing with visuals of it.
Joseph Bolton (17:08):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (17:08):
Why was that, and how did you get
together with your illustrators?
Joseph Bolton (17:13):
Well, first I think it was because as a
writer, I'm very visual.
I mean, people have differentways they create their stories
and develop them.
My way was I would see thestories unfold as a movie within
my mind and my imaginationfirst.
I wouldn't know the words, butI would see the action.
Then I would write it down.
So it's very visual.
(17:34):
These stories were meant rightfrom the beginning to be
illustrated.
So I was very fortunate tostumble on two wonderful
talented artists that I teamedup with to actually create the
illustrations of the book.
The first one was a young womannamed Masami Kiyono lived in
Manhattan, and uh she is astoryboard artist, and she does
(17:58):
storyboards for commercials andfor other movies.
We work together, we go throughthe story, and we decide where
illustrations are going to go,putting in a rough sketch of
what that illustration willcontain.
Just a rough sketch.
Next, after I've gone throughall that with a story, I take it
to my final artist, and that'sNatasha Pelley-Smith, another
(18:19):
talented artist.
She is from Toronto and she wastrained in Paris.
And um she takes those roughsketches and works with me, and
we develop and we flesh out thatstory.
She does more than just likefill in, you know, color within
the lines.
She adds her own techniques andher own understandings, and
(18:40):
sometimes she tweaks the scene alittle bit based on how she
feels and interprets the storyso well.
So this is a very large projectfrom an illustrative point of
view, and it's what makes thisbook so different.
There's a lot moreillustrations than a normal book
like this would have.
This has an illustration almostin every page.
(19:00):
It's very close to being agraphic novel, but it isn't.
So it's really a hybrid, andit's another way that makes this
book very unique.
Claire Waite Brown (19:11):
It sounds really, really interesting.
I like when you say about thestoryboard.
It seems to me that's how youwould think anyway, in
storyboard form.
So it's great to have thatcollaboration.
I'm assuming from what you saidthat you're probably not one of
these writers that is veryscheduled.
How do your words come out andget onto the page?
Joseph Bolton (19:34):
You know, it really comes in spurts.
I belong to a writer's group atmy local library, and everyone
there has different techniques.
Many of them are like, you'vegot to write like a thousand
words a day.
And I can't work like that.
I don't schedule my writing.
I don't sit down.
If some you set me in front ofa keyboard and threatened me and
said, you've got to write astory, and you're going to do it
(19:56):
in like the next five hours, orelse, you know, you're going to
be in real trouble.
I couldn't do it.
The story has to come to me,and it comes to me very slowly.
It comes to me as images thatkind of come in.
And every time the story kindof flows through my mind, image
by image by image, it gets moreand more refined, and other
images get added onto it.
(20:18):
And in fact, I have a new storythat I'm going to write in part
of the same world as OldGrandmother's Tree.
And it's all visual.
It's going to be more of like atraditional graphic novel.
It's going to be a short story.
Working with Masami, and we'regoing to develop the story
together, basically, through theimages, and it's going to have
(20:39):
very little text with it.
So that's how it works.
It the stories just hit me.
And I didn't expect to do it.
I wasn't necessarily evenlooking for it.
It's just that it came to me.
And then when it's there, it'slike a damn burst.
I have to sit in front of thecomputer and I have to either
type it out or work with theartist and sketch it out.
And so that's the way it is.
I can't work by a schedule.
Claire Waite Brown (21:01):
Yeah, I can see that about you.
That's the way we've spokentoday.
How do you feel on a widerscale that this writing, this
collaboration, the wholecreative process, how does this
that really enrich other aspectsof your life?
Joseph Bolton (21:20):
I think it's enriched my life because it's
brought me in contact with otherpeople.
For example, Mitte Ogoko, she'snot only my ancestor, but she's
the ancestor of thousands ofother people in the United
States and Canada and probablyother places in the world too.
And so making these using thesebooks as a means of connection,
(21:40):
I've actually been able toreach out to these people, these
people have reached out to me.
That's my personality.
I love making connections.
I love how things connect andhow patterns develop.
That's one way.
Um, I've also made contact withthe Algonquin community up in
Pembroke, Ontario and Canada.
And I'll be going to visit themnext month and doing a
presentation on the book.
(22:02):
So that way is very muchenriched enriched my life.
That connected is externally.
But I think internally, it'shelped me feel like I have a
place.
I know my place within theworld.
I know where I came from, Iknow how I connect back to that
world of the past.
And so there's a lot ofsatisfaction from that, from
(22:26):
that sense of connection.
Claire Waite Brown (22:27):
That's lovely.
Tell me about the series.
So, what have we got that'salready out?
What have you got in your mind,or maybe on the page for the
future in this particularseries?
Joseph Bolton (22:39):
Originally it was going to be one book, but then
I realized it was too big forAmazon.
Believe it or not, you canactually make a book that is too
large that Amazon says youcan't do it.
It's one book.
Claire Waite Brown (22:49):
Ah, okay.
Joseph Bolton (22:50):
This is volume one, and this is volume two.
This book is like uh, I don'tknow, it's over about 300 pages,
I think.
Wow.
So it's 300 pages.
It's absolutely full ofillustrations.
Claire Waite Brown (23:05):
Yeah.
Joseph Bolton (23:06):
So anyway, these two books primarily focusing on
Mitio Goku, her wedding.
It starts off with how she mether second husband, Pierre
Cauch, and uh then on my thelife of my great-grandmother and
her mother and her family inQuebec before she and her
husband moved to Rhode Island inthe United States.
(23:28):
And so these stories are verymuch a mix of that story of the
family life in Quebec from the17th century to the early 20th
century, but it's also mixed inwith magic.
For example, within the firsttwo stories, I have the
trickster animal uh uh showingup and uh talking with
Mittyogoku's grandfather andactually propelling him into the
(23:50):
future for a short period oftime before he gets yanked back.
There's the appearance of aghost when Mitio Goku's first
husband appears to her on herwedding night, and that's all in
the first two stories.
So I'm always willing to take,you know, try to be innovative
with my stories and take mystories and try different
things.
So that's the first twostories.
(24:11):
The third book that I'm workingon now is called The Dance of
Creation, and that's gonna becoming out here in just a couple
of weeks.
And that story is actually aprequel and a sequel.
It starts off a hundred yearsin the future, actually, in out
in Ontario, and as a call out tothe Algonquins out there that I
made a friendship with, themain character is an Algonquin
(24:33):
grandfather telling the story ofthe creation of the world to
his grandchildren around acampfire.
One hundred years from now, butmost of the story goes back to
the very beginning of the worldwhen the creator, as the story
says, creator danced the worldinto existence, and it shows
where all those trickster animalcharacters did in the other two
(24:54):
books, where they came from andwhy they exist.
So it circles back.
So I like jumping around attime.
I said, you know, I realizeeven though it's a folk tale,
and I'm dealing with a lot ofpeople in the past, I said, I
don't have to be restrained bythat.
So that's the third book.
The fourth book I'm working onright now is going to talk about
the last couple of days ofMitio Goku's life.
(25:16):
And that'll have a more serioustone because it'll talk about
the attack that occurred whenher first husband was killed and
her two children werekidnapped, and how she felt
about that, and how sherecovered from that and married
again.
That story is going to be fullof a lot of cultural tension
between rebirth and recoveryfrom tragedy.
(25:37):
A lot of emotion in that.
And that story is actuallywritten.
I have all the storyboardsdone.
It kind of circles around, andI like the idea of talking about
the future, moving the storypast our present time because I
want readers to feel immersed inthe story, to understand that
the story is around them.
(25:57):
In fact, even reading the booksis actually part of the story
and part of the adventure of OldGrandmother's Tree.
Claire Waite Brown (26:05):
That's fascinating.
I love the um breaking of therules, so to speak, and not
being restricted in any way.
How can people connect withyou?
Joseph Bolton (26:16):
You can connect with me on the Old Grandmother's
Tree website or my emailaddress.
You want to reach me directly,is boltonje364 at gmail.com.
And you can find the books onAmazon.
Just research either my name,Joseph Bolton, or Old
Grandmother's Tree.
Claire Waite Brown (26:37):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much.
It's been a really lovely chat.
Joseph Bolton (26:40):
All right.
Well, thank you.
It's been a pleasure to be tobe here with you, and I hope
that we can visit again.
Claire Waite Brown (26:47):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, perhaps you'd liketo financially contribute to
future episodes atbuymeacoffee.com slash
creativityfound.
There's a link in the shownotes.
If you are listening on avalue-for-value enabled app,
such as Fountain, TrueFans, orPodcast Guru, feel free to send
(27:08):
a few stats my way.
And if you have no idea of whatI'm talking about, you can find
out more by listening to mysister podcast called Podcasting
2.0 in practice.
As a teenager in high school, I was very, very
rough and rugged.
I was a wrestler, I was afootball player, I wasn't afraid
of being tough.
I liked physical competition,and so the army was a natural
fit.
I had been out of the army fora few years, and then after you
know my brother's passing away,ALS is what he died of, which
(00:29):
was a terrible disease to have.
And I really felt that need toreflect about time and about the
value of time and about growingolder.
The stories just hit me, and Ididn't expect to do it.
I wasn't necessarily evenlooking for it.
It's just that it came to me.
And then when it's there, it'slike a damn burst.
(00:49):
But I think internally, it'shelped me feel like I have a
place.
I know my place within theworld.
I know where I came from.
I know how I connect back tothat world of the past.
Claire Waite Brown (01:04):
Hi, I'm Claire.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or refound
their creativity as adults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the art, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love, and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the
two.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
(01:28):
their newfound artistic pursuit.
And how their creative livesenrich their practical,
necessary, everyday lives.
Hi Joseph, how are you?
Joseph Bolton (01:43):
Oh, hello, Claire.
I'm doing very well.
How are you?
Claire Waite Brown (01:46):
I'm very good, thank you.
Start by telling me about thecreative activity that you came
to in adulthood.
Joseph Bolton (01:55):
Well, I was a uh I was a longtime Army officer.
I retired in 2007, and I reallydidn't start writing until a
few years after I retired fromthe Army.
I started right after the deathof my younger brother, who died
in 2013 of ALS.
And it left me with a sense ofgrief and longing.
(02:15):
And so I began a blog and Iwould muse on science, religion,
philosophy, mathematics,whatever came to my mind.
I didn't care if anybody evenread it.
It was just something for me.
And uh towards the end of thatproject, I started to write a
creative little story and put itinto the blog.
(02:35):
And it was a charming littleFrench-Canadian folk tale of
farm animals in Quebec, the turnof the 20th century, waking up
under the moonlight and taking atoboggan and sliding down the
hill outside the barn to becaught by the farm wife, who
instead of scolding them,decides to toboggan down with
(02:55):
them.
It was a cute little story, andI worked with an artist and I
created it, and I even actuallypublished it just as a single
little short story.
I realized, though, that Ienjoyed that.
It was kind of a strange bookin some ways.
The animals did things likesmoke cigars and drink wine.
And around that same time, Ialso was researching my own
French-Canadian ancestors on mymother's side.
(03:18):
My mother's grandparents wereall born in Quebec.
So I discovered them.
And I also discovered anAlgonquin woman was one of my
ancestors who lived in the 17thcentury.
And she had a very remarkablestory.
And just by some coincidence,the farm woman who was actually
based on my great-grandmother,Delia Mernier, she is a
(03:40):
descendant of this Algonquinwoman.
And of course, I am as wellthrough her.
And so immediately there waslike a potential for a
connection of this story.
So I said, I'm going to write abackstory.
And the interesting thing aboutthe creative process is
sometimes you do things when youwrite or you illustrate.
I think subconsciously we putsomething in the story that
(04:03):
we're not aware of at aconscious level, but it'll pop
up in significance later on asyou continue to write.
And the same thing with thisstory, and that was a magic
shawl who had the color of thenorthern lights.
That was in the first storywith Delia Mernier, the farm
wife.
And the backstory became thatthis shawl originally belonged
(04:23):
to her Algonquin ancestor,Mitio Goku, again, real woman.
And it was passed downgeneration to generation.
And so that became the genesisof what I have now, two-volume
set of stories.
And there's like, oh, I guessabout 12 stories right now, I
think, with the third volumecoming out here in just a couple
of weeks.
And fully illustrated.
(04:44):
I think I'm going to be up tolike about 700 illustrations,
full illustrations in all threeof these volumes.
So it's a very exciting series,and it's very well received.
And people who look at thisbook, they're like, what?
I describe it to them.
You're doing a folk tale onyour real ancestors and their
farm and talking animals, butit's based on a real story.
(05:05):
And they're really confuseduntil I hand them the book and
they're like, Oh, I get it.
This is really cool.
Claire Waite Brown (05:10):
Yeah.
I can understand why people saythat, but also because it seems
very different from the thestory of your life that you're
going to tell me about now andthe writing that you've done
beforehand.
Joseph Bolton (05:21):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (05:22):
Let's go with when you were younger at
school and at home.
Were creative activitiesencouraged?
Were they a part of your lifein whatever form they may have
taken?
Joseph Bolton (05:34):
Well, as a child, I was very imaginative.
And I would like to createadventures with the other
children in the neighborhoodwhere I grew up.
And in my mind, the way Ipresented it to them is that
this was real.
That we weren't pretending.
We had real adventures and uhall kinds of things you can
think of.
And one most biggest one we didwas that we all pretended we
(05:58):
were soldiers fighting theBritish because the British were
coming back.
I was like eight, nine yearsold at the time.
And so the kid, neighborhoodkids, they all went along with
it.
But they all told me they allknew it was a bunch of baloney.
And I'm like, okay, I guess so.
But and then as I got older, Iwrote poetry.
You know, lovesick uh teenageboys would have a tendency to
(06:19):
do.
And I didn't continue that intocollege.
But you know, in between thattime period, I I really didn't
write.
But I think I was always aperson of imagination, a person
who saw possibilities andconnectedness.
And I think that became thebasis for my creativity today.
Claire Waite Brown (06:39):
And when you were at school then, did you
did you always want to go intothe armed forces?
Was that something you wantedto do when you grew up, or you
didn't know what you wanted todo when you grew up?
Joseph Bolton (06:50):
First I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a
little kid, and then I kind ofbacked off from that.
But I had uncles that were inthe army when I was a child, so
one of them served in Vietnam.
So I had that that kind of rolemodel to look to.
And so I wanted to be tough andI wanted to be in the army.
And, you know, as a kid, as ateenager, high school, I was
very, very rough and rugged.
(07:10):
I was a wrestler, I was afootball player, I wasn't afraid
of being tough.
I liked physical competition,and so the army was a natural
fit.
But in some ways, though, itwas not a really good fit
because my own personality wasvery different from the way a
lot of other army, um, otherarmy officers, I was an officer,
(07:31):
I graduated from West Point,and I think it was a little
different.
It always created a little bitof a tension because I tension
because I saw the world a littledifferently.
But nevertheless, I did survivethrough.
Interesting enough, though,none of my stories are really
based on the army experience atall.
Totally separate from that.
Claire Waite Brown (07:48):
An interesting escape, perhaps.
What roles did you have in theArmy?
Joseph Bolton (07:53):
Well, I enlisted right out of high school and I
was 18 years old, left home, andI became a combat engineer.
I remember going into therecruiter's office, and he asked
me, I want to go to collegesomeday.
I said, Yes.
And he said, Well, what do youwant to do?
I said, I want to be anengineer, like think a
mechanical engineer.
That was my first call.
Well, I got the job for you.
(08:14):
Combat engineer, he said it.
And what a combat engineerturned out to be was somebody
who built bridges and blew upstuff with demolitions.
Very different.
And then while I was there, thedrill instructors asked for
volunteers for airbornetraining, and so I volunteered
for that because I was just 18years old and didn't know any
better.
So at 18 years old, I wasjumping out of planes and went
(08:36):
to Fort Bragg.
And then because I was, youknow, I was a relatively smart
kid and I had high test scores,they asked me if I was
interested in applying to WestPoint from the enlisted ranks,
and so I did.
And West Point for so manyenlisters is very is like kind
of like the equivalent ofSandhurst, actually.
Just a side note, when I was atWest Point, one of my spring
breaks, we had a club, amilitary club.
(08:58):
Military club within a militarycollege.
But anyway, what we did was forspring break, we went to
Sandhurst and spent the week upthere with the cadets, which was
a very interesting experienceas well.
Claire Waite Brown (09:09):
Wow.
So then what happens after WestPoint that gives you more
opportunities?
Joseph Bolton (09:14):
Well, I became an infantry officer.
I went to graduated from theU.S.
Army's Rangers School, which islike a commando course, and I
served for several jobs andassignments, and then I
eventually became promoted towhat I became a major.
I became a space operationsofficer for the Army, and I
served a year in Afghanistan.
(09:35):
I was in a general staffheadquarters, and uh I also
worked with soldiers fromvarious countries, including
Canada and Great Britain,France, Germany, Poland, all
there at the headquarters withus.
Claire Waite Brown (09:49):
And did you have a family?
Joseph Bolton (09:50):
Yes, I uh I married not too far long after I
graduated from West Point.
I have two daughters, both ofthem in their early 30s now.
Claire Waite Brown (09:58):
Okay, so how long did you stay in the army?
And then I know that youretired.
So then what happened?
What did you do after that?
Because that doesn't meanyou're retiring and and
retiring, retiring.
Joseph Bolton (10:09):
Well, today it does.
Actually, I retired uh Monda umTuesday was the last day.
Oh wow.
Yes.
So anyway, when I gradu I I dida long time in the army, you
know, from enlisted ranks when Iwas a private soldier through
West Point, which is a militaryacademy.
You're in the army during theschool, then graduated
afterwards.
I retired in 2007.
(10:29):
So it was about 25 years, Ithink, total time that I was in
the army.
And initially when I got out, Ididn't want to have anything to
do with the military.
I figured I've been doing themilitary my entire adult life.
So let's see what else is outthere.
I tried another job, didn'treally work.
And so I ended up going backinto government service as a
civilian for the Department ofDefense as a contractor.
(10:51):
And so that's what I prettymuch did from 2007 up until
yesterday.
And yesterday I startedteaching at a small little
Catholic school inMassachusetts, about 25 minutes
from here, teaching uh religion,actually.
Which I like.
I like teaching, I like beingwith the kids.
Claire Waite Brown (11:11):
Yeah.
You did some teaching as well,previous uh believe.
Joseph Bolton (11:15):
Yes, I actually did take some time off from
being a contractor and I taughtmathematics at the same school.
But then I I had a job offeroffer, and actually it worked
out well because I needed moneyto finish my first two books,
Old Grandmother's Tree.
So while taking a break gave metime to write the stories, but
(11:38):
doing the art and actuallybuilding of the books took
money.
I had to it took that job so Ican get that funds to do it.
So I actually did that for awhile.
Claire Waite Brown (11:47):
Before we get to the Old Grandmother's
Tree books, which are a veryspecific form of book, were you
dabbling in writing before that,whether in the army when you
were teaching, you know, wasthat anything that came in?
Joseph Bolton (12:01):
No, except for the blog, as I mentioned, that I
started after my brother's uhdeath, I started writing, and
that was just something formyself was just kind of amusing.
Some of the articles I wroteactually did go national, uh
national recognition and uhplay, but I really haven't
written in that in a long time.
I think after if you'reblogging, um you come to a point
(12:26):
where you've kind of said youfeel like you said everything
you wanted to say.
And at that point you kind ofarrive at a fork.
You know, you're gonna gopolitics one way or the other,
or you're gonna go down somekind of rabbit hole.
And I just didn't want to dothat.
I kind of felt I had said itand I did.
And so the blog is pretty muchat hiatus, but that's pretty
much what I was doing before Istarted writing Old
(12:48):
Grandmother's Tree.
Claire Waite Brown (12:49):
And was it cathartic doing that writing?
Joseph Bolton (12:52):
For my brother, yeah, absolutely it was.
You know, I I had been out ofthe army for a few years, and
then after, you know, mybrother's passing away, ALS is
what what he died of, which is aterrible disease to have.
And I really felt that need toreflect about time and about the
value of time and about growingolder.
(13:13):
I was 49 when he passed away.
So you you get into that, I wasgetting to the age where, you
know, I'm not young anymore, andthings are starting to change
in my own life.
And so it was very catharticbecause it really gave me a time
to really gather my thoughts.
And I think also it really kindof brought forth that creative
instinct or spark within myselfthat I really didn't really
(13:37):
address before when I was in thearmy.
There was no time for that inthe army, and there really
wasn't the the means to reallydo it anyway.
I was so focused and on that atthe time.
But it really gave me a time tokind of reset, reflect, and
practice those skills ofcommunication.
Claire Waite Brown (13:54):
Yeah.
And then that can expand intowhat comes next.
So tell me about how you becameinterested in folklore, in your
ancestry.
Tell me about how that thenbecomes the new series.
Joseph Bolton (14:10):
Well, as a child, I was always fascinated with
folklore and folktales,regardless of the culture.
But I've always read folk talesfrom all over the world and
whatever culture from Europeancultures, Asian cultures, and
even Native American cultures,and that all gave me a sense of
what a folk tale is.
(14:31):
And I realized, especially as Ibegan these book series, that
there's a language to folktales.
So that's one part.
The other part is I was alwayscurious about my family, my
mother's family, especially upin Quebec.
And growing up, we only knewmaybe up to our
great-great-grandparents, butbeyond that, there was kind of a
veil.
And this is back in the 70s andthe 80s.
(14:53):
We didn't have the tools thatwe have, not research or family.
But once I had those tools, theinternet, Ancestry.com,
Genie.com, those ancestrywebsites.
I gave my mother and hersiblings a DNA test, which was
very interesting.
Growing up, we always weretold, you know, we're 100%
French.
(15:13):
And the truth is the DNA testtold a very interesting but
different story, that they weremostly French, but they were
also mixed with things likeEnglish, which I thought was
very interesting.
I didn't know where they camefrom, but also Native American
ancestors from Quebec.
And that led me to thediscovery of this one ancestor
(15:36):
whose life was very welldocumented by the Jesuit priests
up in Quebec and her remarkablestory.
So I here am, I have my love offolk tales.
I have a connection to myancestors now that I understand
who they are.
And then I have this oneancestor in particular, this
woman, who's had a veryremarkable life, an adventurous
(15:58):
life, and then it all kind ofcame together and to tell the
story.
And when people have notableancestors, it's very common for
people to say, I'm going towrite a novel about, you know,
I'm descended from somebodyreally famous, and they write
them about it and they write ahistorical fiction.
So it's not unknown.
But I did a little differently.
I took the basic story, thebasic facts, but I kind of
(16:23):
really immersed it in this wholeworld of magic and folk tales
and Native American trickstercharacters.
And I did that because I wantedto tell a deeper story.
I wanted to really bring outthe feelings and the emotions
and the living as a human beingwhat that meant at that time
(16:44):
period.
And so the folk folk tale andthe folklore style and like
stories is a language that I'musing to tell the story.
Claire Waite Brown (16:54):
Yeah, that allows you to do it in this way.
Tell me about the illustration.
You were very keen to combinethis writing with visuals of it.
Joseph Bolton (17:08):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (17:08):
Why was that, and how did you get
together with your illustrators?
Joseph Bolton (17:13):
Well, first I think it was because as a
writer, I'm very visual.
I mean, people have differentways they create their stories
and develop them.
My way was I would see thestories unfold as a movie within
my mind and my imaginationfirst.
I wouldn't know the words, butI would see the action.
Then I would write it down.
So it's very visual.
(17:34):
These stories were meant rightfrom the beginning to be
illustrated.
So I was very fortunate tostumble on two wonderful
talented artists that I teamedup with to actually create the
illustrations of the book.
The first one was a young womannamed Masami Kiyono lived in
Manhattan, and uh she is astoryboard artist, and she does
(17:58):
storyboards for commercials andfor other movies.
We work together, we go throughthe story, and we decide where
illustrations are going to go,putting in a rough sketch of
what that illustration willcontain.
Just a rough sketch.
Next, after I've gone throughall that with a story, I take it
to my final artist, and that'sNatasha Pelley-Smith, another
(18:19):
talented artist.
She is from Toronto and she wastrained in Paris.
And um she takes those roughsketches and works with me, and
we develop and we flesh out thatstory.
She does more than just likefill in, you know, color within
the lines.
She adds her own techniques andher own understandings, and
(18:40):
sometimes she tweaks the scene alittle bit based on how she
feels and interprets the storyso well.
So this is a very large projectfrom an illustrative point of
view, and it's what makes thisbook so different.
There's a lot moreillustrations than a normal book
like this would have.
This has an illustration almostin every page.
(19:00):
It's very close to being agraphic novel, but it isn't.
So it's really a hybrid, andit's another way that makes this
book very unique.
Claire Waite Brown (19:11):
It sounds really, really interesting.
I like when you say about thestoryboard.
It seems to me that's how youwould think anyway, in
storyboard form.
So it's great to have thatcollaboration.
I'm assuming from what you saidthat you're probably not one of
these writers that is veryscheduled.
How do your words come out andget onto the page?
Joseph Bolton (19:34):
You know, it really comes in spurts.
I belong to a writer's group atmy local library, and everyone
there has different techniques.
Many of them are like, you'vegot to write like a thousand
words a day.
And I can't work like that.
I don't schedule my writing.
I don't sit down.
If some you set me in front ofa keyboard and threatened me and
said, you've got to write astory, and you're going to do it
(19:56):
in like the next five hours, orelse, you know, you're going to
be in real trouble.
I couldn't do it.
The story has to come to me,and it comes to me very slowly.
It comes to me as images thatkind of come in.
And every time the story kindof flows through my mind, image
by image by image, it gets moreand more refined, and other
images get added onto it.
(20:18):
And in fact, I have a new storythat I'm going to write in part
of the same world as OldGrandmother's Tree.
And it's all visual.
It's going to be more of like atraditional graphic novel.
It's going to be a short story.
Working with Masami, and we'regoing to develop the story
together, basically, through theimages, and it's going to have
(20:39):
very little text with it.
So that's how it works.
It the stories just hit me.
And I didn't expect to do it.
I wasn't necessarily evenlooking for it.
It's just that it came to me.
And then when it's there, it'slike a damn burst.
I have to sit in front of thecomputer and I have to either
type it out or work with theartist and sketch it out.
And so that's the way it is.
I can't work by a schedule.
Claire Waite Brown (21:01):
Yeah, I can see that about you.
That's the way we've spokentoday.
How do you feel on a widerscale that this writing, this
collaboration, the wholecreative process, how does this
that really enrich other aspectsof your life?
Joseph Bolton (21:20):
I think it's enriched my life because it's
brought me in contact with otherpeople.
For example, Mitte Ogoko, she'snot only my ancestor, but she's
the ancestor of thousands ofother people in the United
States and Canada and probablyother places in the world too.
And so making these using thesebooks as a means of connection,
(21:40):
I've actually been able toreach out to these people, these
people have reached out to me.
That's my personality.
I love making connections.
I love how things connect andhow patterns develop.
That's one way.
Um, I've also made contact withthe Algonquin community up in
Pembroke, Ontario and Canada.
And I'll be going to visit themnext month and doing a
presentation on the book.
(22:02):
So that way is very muchenriched enriched my life.
That connected is externally.
But I think internally, it'shelped me feel like I have a
place.
I know my place within theworld.
I know where I came from, Iknow how I connect back to that
world of the past.
And so there's a lot ofsatisfaction from that, from
(22:26):
that sense of connection.
Claire Waite Brown (22:27):
That's lovely.
Tell me about the series.
So, what have we got that'salready out?
What have you got in your mind,or maybe on the page for the
future in this particularseries?
Joseph Bolton (22:39):
Originally it was going to be one book, but then
I realized it was too big forAmazon.
Believe it or not, you canactually make a book that is too
large that Amazon says youcan't do it.
It's one book.
Claire Waite Brown (22:49):
Ah, okay.
Joseph Bolton (22:50):
This is volume one, and this is volume two.
This book is like uh, I don'tknow, it's over about 300 pages,
I think.
Wow.
So it's 300 pages.
It's absolutely full ofillustrations.
Claire Waite Brown (23:05):
Yeah.
Joseph Bolton (23:06):
So anyway, these two books primarily focusing on
Mitio Goku, her wedding.
It starts off with how she mether second husband, Pierre
Cauch, and uh then on my thelife of my great-grandmother and
her mother and her family inQuebec before she and her
husband moved to Rhode Island inthe United States.
(23:28):
And so these stories are verymuch a mix of that story of the
family life in Quebec from the17th century to the early 20th
century, but it's also mixed inwith magic.
For example, within the firsttwo stories, I have the
trickster animal uh uh showingup and uh talking with
Mittyogoku's grandfather andactually propelling him into the
(23:50):
future for a short period oftime before he gets yanked back.
There's the appearance of aghost when Mitio Goku's first
husband appears to her on herwedding night, and that's all in
the first two stories.
So I'm always willing to take,you know, try to be innovative
with my stories and take mystories and try different
things.
So that's the first twostories.
(24:11):
The third book that I'm workingon now is called The Dance of
Creation, and that's gonna becoming out here in just a couple
of weeks.
And that story is actually aprequel and a sequel.
It starts off a hundred yearsin the future, actually, in out
in Ontario, and as a call out tothe Algonquins out there that I
made a friendship with, themain character is an Algonquin
(24:33):
grandfather telling the story ofthe creation of the world to
his grandchildren around acampfire.
One hundred years from now, butmost of the story goes back to
the very beginning of the worldwhen the creator, as the story
says, creator danced the worldinto existence, and it shows
where all those trickster animalcharacters did in the other two
(24:54):
books, where they came from andwhy they exist.
So it circles back.
So I like jumping around attime.
I said, you know, I realizeeven though it's a folk tale,
and I'm dealing with a lot ofpeople in the past, I said, I
don't have to be restrained bythat.
So that's the third book.
The fourth book I'm working onright now is going to talk about
the last couple of days ofMitio Goku's life.
(25:16):
And that'll have a more serioustone because it'll talk about
the attack that occurred whenher first husband was killed and
her two children werekidnapped, and how she felt
about that, and how sherecovered from that and married
again.
That story is going to be fullof a lot of cultural tension
between rebirth and recoveryfrom tragedy.
(25:37):
A lot of emotion in that.
And that story is actuallywritten.
I have all the storyboardsdone.
It kind of circles around, andI like the idea of talking about
the future, moving the storypast our present time because I
want readers to feel immersed inthe story, to understand that
the story is around them.
(25:57):
In fact, even reading the booksis actually part of the story
and part of the adventure of OldGrandmother's Tree.
Claire Waite Brown (26:05):
That's fascinating.
I love the um breaking of therules, so to speak, and not
being restricted in any way.
How can people connect withyou?
Joseph Bolton (26:16):
You can connect with me on the Old Grandmother's
Tree website or my emailaddress.
You want to reach me directly,is boltonje364 at gmail.com.
And you can find the books onAmazon.
Just research either my name,Joseph Bolton, or Old
Grandmother's Tree.
Claire Waite Brown (26:37):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much.
It's been a really lovely chat.
Joseph Bolton (26:40):
All right.
Well, thank you.
It's been a pleasure to be tobe here with you, and I hope
that we can visit again.
Claire Waite Brown (26:47):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, perhaps you'd liketo financially contribute to
future episodes atbuymeacoffee.com slash
creativityfound.
There's a link in the shownotes.
If you are listening on avalue-for-value enabled app,
such as Fountain, TrueFans, orPodcast Guru, feel free to send
(27:08):
a few stats my way.
And if you have no idea of whatI'm talking about, you can find
out more by listening to mysister podcast called Podcasting
2.0 in practice.
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