August 21, 2023 • 37 mins
Can decluttering help you become more creative?
My guest this episode, Mel Jay, says not only can it boost your creativity, but it can make you happier and give you more time for family, friends and hobbies.
Mel is a Sydney-based decluttering coach, a podcaster and content creator, who is on a mission to help busy mums regain balance in their life. Mel joined me on Creativity: Uncovered to discuss her relationship with creativity, her journey as a video content creator, the danger of social media metrics, and the unexpected benefits of decluttering.
A big thank you to Mel for sharing your tips on creativity and decluttering!
Happy listening!
xo Abi
Ps. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: www.crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/clean-home-clean-mind/
Creativity: Uncovered is lovingly edited by the team at Crisp Communications.
Creativity: Uncovered is a registered Australian Trade Mark.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(upbeat music)
(00:02):
All right.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:07):
Uncovered.
My name is Abi Gatling and I'm on a journey
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get inventive and open their imaginations
so they can deliver creative results at home,
work, play and everything in between.
And basically my goal for this podcast
is that by the end of it,
(00:28):
you'll be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways
to summon creativity the next time that you need it.
(upbeat music)
Now today I'm speaking to Mel Jay,
who is an ex-financial planning product manager
and now a professional declutterer,
content creator and a podcast host.
(00:49):
I came across Mel when I listened to an episode
of her podcast about the unexpected benefits
of decluttering and I'm so intrigued to find out more.
Welcome Mel.
- Abi for having me on.
I'm really excited.
It's been a while since I've done a podcast.
So I'm really excited to get back into it
and have a chat with you.
(01:10):
- Oh, well, I'm absolutely pleased
that you've chosen to do it on my show.
So Mel, I sort of kind of mentioned it a little bit more
but I'm really curious
because I've never met a professional declutterer before.
My only frame of reference is Mari Kondo.
But you have a decluttering coaching business
(01:33):
called Simply Mel where you coach people
on how to declutter so they can have more time
and space to spend with their families
and do the things that they love.
So tell me, how did you get into that
and how to get into decluttering
coaching specifically?
- Well, it came by chance.
(01:54):
So I was at home on maternity leave with my second child
and there was just basically a lot of crap around.
Once you have a child and then once you have two children
you accumulate so much stuff.
And I have to admit, my second child was a girl.
I had a boy the first time and so I wanted some girl stuff
and then you buy new toys
(02:15):
and you just get into it.
You buy new toys and you just end up surrounded
by so much stuff.
And also I discovered the second hand economy.
So I was on Facebook trying to sell some things
but I actually ended up buying more than I sold.
- Yes, guilty.
- I jumped on the pages.
Which is not what I recommend to clients.
(02:35):
But so I just decided to declutter my house
and my friend recommended I read Mari Kondo's book
The Life Changing Magic of Tiding Up.
And I couldn't put it down.
I read it in like probably one and a half evenings.
I was just, you know, so I just resonated with what she said
(02:55):
and it motivated me and spurred me on.
So, you know, the very next week I started decluttering
and I'd also been watching a few YouTube mums
on my maternity leave.
And, you know, creativity is something, you know,
I think it's always been a part of me.
And I think because my job in corporate
is not what you would call terribly creative or artsy,
(03:20):
I wasn't really getting that sort of fulfillment
from that, you know, from that part of my life.
So I thought, well, I could probably make a video
and put it up.
So I just filmed myself decluttering things
and giving little decluttering tips
and basically it just snowballed from there.
I'd say I'm not a professional organizer.
Like I'm not, you know, certified or anything like that.
(03:40):
But my, I guess it comes from my experience.
And so I started off helping a few friends
and a few school moms.
And then during COVID, I was doing a few virtual sessions.
I don't sort of drive around to people's houses
and organize that for a few friends,
but, you know, I'm busy mum and that sort of thing.
So right now it's more on the content creation side.
(04:01):
So I love creating content to motivate
and inspire people to declutter
and to give them tips and that sort of thing.
I'm obsessed with decluttering
and luckily because I've got a non-minimalist husband
and two children, I always have plenty of content
because I'm always decluttering and tiny enough after them.
- They're keeping you in business, are they?
(04:22):
- They are, they're giving me plenty of content.
So my husband thinks he's actually doing me a favor.
- Oh my gosh.
And so, and so then, I mean,
there's wildly different from being a product manager.
Are there any transferable skills?
- Financial services.
Well, I guess I'd say I come from a sort of a role
(04:45):
where, you know, you have to have really good attention
to detail, you know, there's a lot of data and compliance.
I'm making it sound so sexy and exciting.
- Wow.
- I'm not a teacher.
- I'm not in task oriented person, though.
So it was sort of a job that suited me to a T.
And I just decided to take a step back a few years ago.
So I've been in corporate for almost 20 years.
(05:07):
And then after I had my second child,
I went back to work for a year.
And then I decided, hey, I actually want to spend more time
with my daughter.
And, you know, I'm very fortunate that I could do that.
My husband has a well-paying job and I could do that.
And I was also doing some freelance work,
just, you know, using my digital skills
from what I'd learned from doing YouTube
and things like that.
(05:28):
But I'm very fortunate I could do that.
But yeah, I think the transferable skills would be,
you've still, you know, you've got to be quite organized,
you know, planning skills, you know, strategizing.
So you need to make a plan to, you know,
if you've got a big job, a big project,
whether it's decluttering or, you know,
a corporate project, you know, in your office,
(05:50):
you do have to, you know, figure out what do I know,
what don't I know, do some research, do some planning,
you know, plan your action steps and then implement.
So that's a transferable skill and attention to detail.
- Yeah.
Well, so I've always been a very detailed person.
- Yeah, cool.
And so what does decluttering have to do with
(06:12):
helping people spend more time with their families?
What's the link there?
- Well, I think people spend so much time,
well, there's a couple of things.
When we get into, you know, we start earning more,
you know, you get that lifestyle creep
and you start buying more stuff.
So you actually spend more of your time working to pay off,
(06:35):
you know, the mortgage or the nicer car
or the material things or the holidays and things like that.
Not that holidays are bad.
I always say experiences are better than, you know,
accumulating stuff.
- Yeah.
- So that's one side of it.
But the other side is if you've got a smaller house
and less stuff to maintain, you've just got more free time.
(06:55):
So instead of spending heaps of time cleaning or dusting
or, you know, trying to organize things
or trying to find items that you've lost
because it doesn't have a home
or there's just too much stuff and you can't see things,
you've got more time to spend on the things
that you do like doing like spending time with your family
or, you know, going to the beach
or doing a hobby or something like that.
(07:17):
- Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And so you sort of mentioned creativity before
and when we spoke for the last time,
you said that you're having your business,
so your decoding coaching business
has helped you find yourself
and also spend more time with your family.
Tell us about that.
(07:38):
Like how I feel like as a business owner,
I have less time than the average person
for you managed to find more time.
Like, what's your secret?
- I think I've just gotten better at segmenting things.
And I have to say, you know,
because both of my kids are in school now,
once both of them are in school,
it does get a little bit easier
(07:58):
and a bit more self-sufficient.
You know, you don't have to, you know, bath them every night.
You just say, "Go take a shower."
So that side of it gets easier.
But I think,
partly the coaching,
so I discovered a skill that I didn't necessarily,
you know, use before.
And I discovered, I guess in a way, you know,
my corporate job,
(08:18):
I did mentor some younger staff members.
I've had staff reporting to me before,
so in that way, you're teaching people things,
showing them how to do a job
or you're mentoring in some sort of way.
But, you know, never, you know,
sort of a formal capacity, formal relationship.
And so when you're coaching someone,
whether it's even just, you know, coaching my dad,
(08:40):
for example, I went and decluttered
my parents kitchen with them
because my mum reckons dad's a hoarder.
But I think there's scales of hoarding.
I think we've all got a little bit of hoarder in us.
(laughs)
But, you know, even just coaching my dad,
it's a skill and I just discover I like teaching,
I like sharing information with people.
(09:02):
And then that comes into the content creation
because really a lot of my content is quite informative
or I'm trying to demonstrate what I'm doing,
I'll explain what I'm doing
or just show people by, you know, filming myself,
you know, on a time that's just cluttering a room
and then, you know, there might be a voiceover
explaining what I'm doing
or I might just do a straight tips video,
(09:22):
things like that.
And then even, you know, posts on social media,
it's basically trying to share information with people,
to empower them to, you know, get more order in their lives
so that they've got more time for themselves.
- Yeah, absolutely.
And content creation, I feel, can be very stressful
because, you know, there's this constant pressure
(09:44):
to keep creating new content
that is interesting and engaging and, you know,
and even having the skills to be able to do that
as well as the confidence to be on camera to do that.
Yeah, how do you find that pressure?
And how do you continually come up with new ideas
for your videos and for your podcast episodes
and, yeah, your YouTube channel and all that sort of stuff?
(10:08):
- Well, I actually took a break.
So during, you know, when everything locked down in COVID,
everyone was at home and I've been on YouTube
for about three years by that point
and I found it hard to film around my family.
My husband doesn't like to be on camera at all
and I'm very cautious about how much of my kids
that I'll show just for their own privacy.
I don't use their real names.
(10:29):
For example, I use their names when I refer to them
and things like that.
So safeguarding their privacy.
But then also I had another priority, you know,
I had to remote school my son
and keep my daughter occupied, she was in preschool at the time.
So I actually took a step back.
And also after doing YouTube for a few years
(10:49):
and I think to trying to turn it into a business,
sometimes that can put even more pressure on you
when you've got pressure to monetize it
and it's not as much fun anymore.
So I took a long break, a three year break in fact
and I've only just started getting back into video now.
(11:09):
I was doing the podcast though at the time
so I kind of swapped something, you know,
the video out for podcasting
because I needed to be doing something
but podcasting was easy.
I could do it in a dark room at night,
no makeup on when my kids were asleep.
So it was a lot.
So I think you've got to work with one year bandwidth.
So, you know, if you've got a job,
(11:30):
whether it's part-time, full-time or you've got family,
you've got to think what's realistic for you.
And it's got to be something that you love doing
and love talking about.
So if you hate being on camera,
then doing video content is probably not for you.
Whereas if you like, you know, writing,
you might be better at blogging
or if you like chatting to people, podcast would be fine.
(11:52):
You don't necessarily need to show your face.
And on Instagram, you don't need to necessarily show your face
either on video, there's ways to do videos.
So it's got to be something, a topic that you love.
It's got to be sustainable.
Otherwise you won't keep it up.
There's no point in putting stuff on a topic
that, you know, you're not that passionate about.
It's got to be something that you're curious about.
(12:14):
I'm always reading, you know, articles and books
and, you know, watching documentaries or YouTube videos
that and watching other people declutter
because that motivates and inspires me as well.
And there's always, you know, new things you can learn
or new ways of creating content that you can learn.
So that sort of thing is interesting to me.
So those are the key things.
(12:35):
And if you need to take a break, take a break.
For me, you know, it's easy to get caught up
and subscribe in numbers.
So I think I got to about, you know, a very small channel.
I only got up to about 2000 subscribers
and it went down a bit when I had a break.
And I know that when I start publishing videos again,
it's probably going to go down again
(12:55):
because people will realize,
oh, I'm still subscribed to this person.
Not really interested unsubscribe,
but then I'll get new people in as well.
- Yeah.
- And I've learned it's not the quality of, you know,
who's following you.
It's the quality of the people.
So those people who are really into your content
and engaging.
- Yeah.
- And into them.
(13:16):
And that's what we're viewing.
- Oh yeah, absolutely.
That's something I've heard a few times is that
when people doing content creation for social media,
then it's so easy to focus just on the numbers
and seeing that follow rate go up,
the subscriber rate go up.
(13:39):
And sometimes it can be to the detriment of your content.
Yeah, because you might be doing, going,
oh, well, if I do something that's really click baity
or something that's sensational,
I'll get more eyeballs.
But like you said, it's not the engagement.
It's not the true followers.
It's kind of a playoff, isn't it?
(14:00):
- Yeah, I mean, for example, on Instagram,
you could be doing a reel where it's like dancing
or you know the ones where they point
and do certain things or-
- Yeah.
- ... to audio or whatever it is.
But that might not be your style.
And it will come across like that.
It will look awkward.
So it's got to be authentic to you.
I think I've only done one when I danced.
It was just because I liked the song
(14:22):
and it fitted in with the particular idea
that I had at the time.
So it's got to be something that really resonates with you.
Don't just do it because you think,
oh, that's going to get me trends and that kind of thing.
- Yeah, so I try not to focus on the numbers
'cause I think really it's about the content.
I want to produce content that helps people,
(14:44):
that inspires people, that's fun.
I'm a bit quirky and funny sometimes.
For a while I did a few parody videos on my YouTube channel.
I did like a frozen song parody, which is really cheesy.
And I had to do the lyrics myself
'cause I re-wrote the lyrics
and I cannot sing it all on, but Tone Deaf.
'Cause I was a bit cringy.
I need to find this video.
(15:05):
(laughs)
- Yeah, but it's kind of funny and yeah,
it's called, do you want to go to Kmart?
As opposed to do you want to build snowman?
For a while my son was young, we'd go to the mall
and he'd be like, "Mom, do you want to go to Kmart?"
(laughs)
I mean, it's sing it.
I can't sing it.
- I won't make you do that,
(15:28):
but I'm definitely funny at after this.
- Yeah, can you just say something to sing a song, your voice?
Do you want to get to Kmart?
(laughs)
- Yeah.
- It was fun and I just had this idea one day
and I don't know where it came from.
Well, obviously I was watching a lot of Frozen
at the time of my kids.
And the lyrics just pulled out of me
and I had to sit down right that minute and write it down.
(15:49):
And then I did the audio and the next day
when my son was at a daycare or school,
probably daycare at that point
and my daughter was having a nap.
I filmed it all during her,
you know, sort of one and a half hour nap.
And I had it all planned out in my head.
I didn't write it down.
I just had it in my head and I did it.
And some of it I managed to do even after she woke up
(16:09):
'cause even if she's crying or whatever,
or making noise in the background,
he's put it on, you know, he's got the audio over it.
So it didn't matter.
So there's ways of creating content that fit in with,
you know, your circumstances and your schedule.
- Yeah.
- I have to say, do you, whatever fits with you,
whatever resonates with you, whatever you feel
is comfortable for you.
(16:31):
Don't try and copy, you know, or emulate someone else
because you think that's what's going to get you views
or hits or that kind of thing.
But in terms of keeping, you know,
getting the ideas fresh and things,
that's why I needed to take a break, I think,
because I was forcing the ideas, you know,
I've done so many decluttering videos.
(16:52):
And in a way, I was getting caught up a bit
in the view metrics thinking,
no one's watching them, what am I doing this for?
But right now for me, I think, you know,
it doesn't matter if I put out a video after three years
and I only get one or two views,
I'm doing it to satisfy myself and it could help people.
You don't know how many people are actually watching,
(17:13):
you know, even if you don't get a comment.
I don't comment on a lot of people's stuff,
even if I really like it.
And sometimes I even forget to thumbs up or whatever it is.
So you really never know how many people you're impacting.
I've had a couple of mums at school come up to me and said,
"Oh, you know, I saw you did such and such on your Instagram."
You know, I think it was a grocery haul
(17:34):
that I did a couple of years ago.
I was like, I didn't realize anyone had actually seen that.
She was like, "Oh, that's really good.
It's inspired me to go and plan some meals."
But you know, that's just because she happened to see me,
but she never comments, you know, on this.
So--
- That's interesting for a lot of people, isn't it?
- It impacts that you don't necessarily see.
So you can't get too up in your head about,
(17:56):
oh, no one's watching this or, you know,
it's gonna be something that's satisfying to you.
- Yeah, yeah, wow.
That's cool.
I love that.
I love the having the freedom of your own business
gives you the opportunity to explore and flex these muscles,
which you may not have had the opportunity to in the past.
And yeah, your idea creation and learning the video skills
(18:17):
and the editing skills, that's really cool.
And so I mentioned sort of at the beginning,
I kind of came across to you
'cause of this episode that I've,
of your podcast I listened to about
the unexpected benefits of decluttering
and how that's led you into down a whole new creative path.
Tell me how, tell me a little bit about that.
(18:42):
Like how did decluttering itself
make you feel more creative?
- Well, I think it also stems from me being a person
that kind of needs order around me to function.
So if I go to sit down to work, my desk is messy.
I'm like, oh, it's so distracted.
I just want to clear space.
(19:02):
I don't like mess around.
And it's like I said to my kid,
my husband, if you're cooking one night
and then you don't clean up the kitchen,
I'm not inspired to make breakfast the next day
'cause there's all this mess around.
I like to cook.
Some people aren't like that
and they can get on with it.
But I need order in my life.
(19:24):
But also I saw that the content I was creating
was helping people and I didn't really intend to,
you know, go to people's houses
or even start coaching people.
But I had a couple of mums come up to me at school
and say, oh, I need to declutter.
Do you offer that kind of service?
And I'm like, well, not really,
but I can come around and help you.
(19:45):
And they paid me for it.
So, and I knew it was a thing.
Yeah, so I mean, I enjoy it.
I think I enjoy the content creation more
and I enjoy the business side of things.
And, you know, I did some freelance social media stuff
for people.
I've done video editing for people.
(20:06):
So I think, you know, in terms of actual services,
rather than go around and declutter people's houses,
I'm more interested in teaching people.
And then also helping people, other content creators as well.
That's something that, you know,
I'll be exploring this year as well further.
How can I help other people?
Might not necessarily be through the same channel,
(20:27):
but it might be through other ways
just on social media inspiring people
or having chats to people if they want to,
you know, chat to me and engage.
Yeah.
But I wrote down some ideas on how I get my ideas.
Oh, yes.
And this is a thing.
I took my journal to the coffee shop
after I dropped the kids off.
And that's one thing I worked with a coach,
Kukali, Kali Murray.
(20:47):
And she always used to say scribbles before scrolls.
So before you pick up your phone and start scrolling,
you know, pick up a pen and paper
and you don't need to journal like, you know,
five pages of stuff.
It could just be one thought.
Just get your thoughts out of your head first thing in the morning
before you let all the external stuff get into your head.
(21:07):
Yeah.
And that's where the ideas may come from.
Just might be a random thought
and that might turn into an Instagram post
or an idea for a video or idea for, you know,
a digital product or whatever it is that you want to create.
Yeah.
Yeah, scribbles before scrolling before--
I love that.
External stuff and other people's ideas
and content get into your head.
(21:28):
Yes.
Create more than you consume.
So, you know, try not to binge too much Netflix and YouTube
before, you know, you create things yourself.
Be intentional about what you consume.
So I actually don't watch a lot of TV shows.
Everyone's doing that Bridget in and Queen Charlotte
and Stranger Things.
(21:48):
I haven't watched any of them because I am a binge out.
I have no limits.
So if I start watching YouTube tonight,
I'll be up till four in the morning because I'll just,
I'll be like, just one more, just one more.
Oh, wow.
Three watch movies because they have a start and a finish.
Yeah.
But I watch a lot of stuff on YouTube and it's more, you know,
(22:09):
people decluttering or it might be learning how to do something
new in my business.
And I read, but it's again, it's more nonfiction books.
It might be something I'm interested in, you know,
learning more about in terms of growing my skills,
that kind of thing.
I get plenty of sleep.
If you're tired, you're not going to be creative.
(22:29):
You're just going to be, you know, surviving the day.
Really?
You're not going to be surviving.
Write down all your ideas immediately.
I have learned this the hard way.
We've had a great idea and I'm like,
I'm just out walking the dog or whatever.
All right, I'll write that down when I get back.
Well, you know, I flesh that out more and I get home and I'm like,
(22:49):
oh my God, it's gone.
I know that feeling.
It's so frustrating, right?
So just on your phone, a voice memo even, you know,
if you, you know, your hands free, a voice memo or on your notes
or post it, whatever, just make sure you get it down in some way,
shape or form because I've got a memory like a goldfish.
(23:11):
Don't get caught up in perfection.
So we were talking about this just before we came on, you know,
whether you're doing a podcast or video,
if there's a little bit of background noise or the light's not quite right or,
you know, your makeup is not quite right or, you know,
you've only got five minutes to record something you think I don't have enough time.
Just do it.
You'd be surprised how much you can get done and what you can actually produce.
(23:33):
The day I produced that frozen song video, I had this massive pimple
and I was like, oh, this is going to look horrible.
I watched the video back.
I can't even see it.
Yeah.
I can't even see it.
I just remember if I'd been all up on my head, that video would not exist.
Yeah, absolutely.
What, like, why do you think we are so harsh on ourselves in that that,
like, this idea of perfectionism has come up a few times when I've been speaking
(23:57):
to people about, yeah, there's always some excuse why you can't put something out.
Like you said, I've got a pimple or my voice didn't sound good in that one or whatever.
But like, why, why do we do that?
Why do you think you do that?
Well, I think it's a couple of things.
I think it's, you know, our work represents us.
So we want it to be the best we can.
(24:18):
It can be when we put it out in the world and we want to share something
that's really great, you know, you know, if we think something doesn't look quite right,
we're like, oh, people aren't going to watch that.
It's not going to be good.
But the big one is fear of judgment.
I think we're so worried about what other people think of us and what they're going to say.
And I've just learnt you can't please everyone.
(24:41):
I mean, I've put out videos before where I've had so many comments saying,
oh, that was boring.
You talk too much or, you know, whatever.
And then other people that said that same video, oh, that was so helpful.
That was wonderful.
So you're not going to be able to please everyone.
Everyone's going to have a different opinion and an idea.
I think you've just got to please yourself.
And if, you know, people find it helpful, that's great.
(25:02):
Not everyone will.
Yeah. Yeah.
You mentioned in that in that episode that I listened to about how you've got this new sense
of creativity and you're trying out new hobbies and things like that.
But you sort of had this interesting reflection on how, you know, as a kid,
(25:24):
you used to be really creative and write stories and draw and all this sort of stuff.
And then now as an adult, you know, before you start this business,
that sort of creativity was kind of whittling away down to nothing.
And I just found that so interesting because I think that's so true as adults.
We've got to go, if it's not, if it's not important and if it's not to do with making money
(25:48):
or some other reason, then we just kind of don't do it.
But, you know, talking to you now, you're coming alive when you're talking about creativity.
So it's definitely a thing that I think more people should put into their,
into their lives and not be so afraid to put stuff out there just because.
Oh, absolutely. And it could just be where you start an Instagram account
(26:11):
and you just post little, you know, 15 second stories every now and then.
I actually give that as a tip to people if they want to get comfortable on camera.
Even if they do an Instagram story and at first they don't actually publish it,
it just gets them used to talking to the camera. It's practice.
And so my motto, well, particularly in the last month, where I've been really committed to,
(26:33):
I'm like, right, I'm going to restart my YouTube channel.
I want to put stuff out there and help people again.
And I want to, you know, do something that I've, that inspires myself as well as other people.
So my, and I even wrote on my whiteboard, my doodle was like, what's that written on Monday?
I've got this weekly whiteboard and I couldn't find any other room.
So it's on Monday and it says create every day.
(26:55):
So I create something every day and that could be as simple as writing down an idea
or taking a photo or editing a video.
So it's not necessarily me jumping in front of the camera and filming something or
or doing an Instagram post, but it might be just something that contributes to the creation of something every day.
Yeah.
(27:15):
That whole thing of, you know, creating a habit.
And that does needs to take, you know, could take 30 seconds to write down an idea that popped into my head.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think if you say, I'm going to film every day, it's probably not going to happen.
You know, life gets in the way.
Excuse me.
But yeah, I think, you know, as a child, I was very creative.
(27:36):
But then and, you know, all credit to my parents, they thought they were doing the right thing.
I used to say, you know, do you watch that show The Chase and they've got that one of the chases is Tiger Mum.
I say that my mum was the wannabe Tiger Mum.
I've had a bit. She's not like that anymore.
I think she realizes that, you know, I'm doing stuff that fulfills me and she's very proud of me.
(28:00):
She says that. But when I was a kid, you know, my parents are like, OK, you need to go to university.
You need to do a business degree and you need to do accounting.
And so they would they chose all of my subjects in high school, you know, accounting, even though they went my strongest subjects.
I didn't enjoy them that much.
(28:22):
So I went to university and did a business degree.
And so I think you get caught up in life and doing what you think you should do, what's expected.
Or, you know, I'm an adult now, so I should do the the sensible thing instead of indulging in what makes me happy.
And, you know, there's a balance. You can do both.
You know, obviously, we all have to go to work and pay our bills.
But I think, you know, if there's an itching side of you that says, I must create something, then indulge it.
(28:48):
And it doesn't have to be something that means you quit your job like I did.
That's pretty extreme.
Yeah. I mean, for a while in that period, you know, I don't want to say, you know, I think a lot of people see big, you know, YouTubers on, you know, different channels, especially in the US, you know,
mums who clean their houses, for example, when they quit their jobs and that's what they do full time.
(29:12):
I was doing virtual administration, you know, I was doing some subcontracting for people doing social media management.
So I still had money coming in, but then I also had, you know, my daughter at home with me, you know, two or three days a week.
So yeah, other stuff as well.
And I think it's just me.
And that's why I started my YouTube channel when I was on maternity leave.
(29:34):
Even though I loved being a mum at home with my child, I think I've got the sort of brain that needs to be learning something or creating something or
producing something of some sort.
Yeah.
Whether it's generating money through doing, you know, a job or whatever it is.
And I have a part-time job now.
I've got a part-time job working 20 hours a week for a very nice company.
(29:56):
And I'm very lucky that it's all remote so I can work all from home.
And when my day is off, I do, you know, I create content and I talk to people like yourself.
I'm doing podcasting and things like that.
Yeah, that's cool.
I do like that's kind of the way the world is moving is this more flexibility in your life.
(30:17):
And I don't know if it's like a worldwide trend, but certainly in my sort of connections, there seems to be this more since COVID, there seems to be this focus more on what's fulfilling me and what's going to make me happy rather than this straight career track that people used to be on.
(30:38):
And people being a bit more creative about how they approach their work life, you know, whether that's going part-time, remote, doing, moving into the gig economy, starting their own business.
You know, it's just, it's really interesting to see.
And I really love the idea that people are making more time and more space for themselves to be able to fill and chase the things that make them happy.
(31:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's why I say to people, beware of lifestyle creep.
So when you get a pay rise, don't think, oh, I'm going to go out and buy a really fancy car now, or, you know, maybe the car you've still got is good enough because I think that's when people lock themselves into this lifestyle that they may get to a point and they're not happy with all the amount of time they're spending working in their job or they may not enjoy that particular job anymore.
(31:33):
And then they feel kind of stuck because, you know, they're paying for things that they need to keep paying for.
They made these financial commitments.
So I always say beware of lifestyle creep.
Yeah.
But, you know, we, I live in Sydney.
We've got a mortgage that is, you know, increasing at the moment because of the interest rate rises.
And so, you know, I'm still working part-time, like I said.
(31:53):
And then, you know, sometimes I still take on the odd freelance job.
And I'm probably going to pick that up again because I enjoy it.
And now that my kids are settled in, you know, both my kids are settled in school.
I've got the time to take on that extra work.
I also pet sit sometimes as well.
So I'm doing that.
(32:13):
So it's not, you know, I'm sitting there all day, every day, making videos, waiting for, you know,
Google AdSense money to roll in from the ads on YouTube videos, which is not very much, by the way.
That won't pay us any mortgage.
Yeah.
That's a whole other thing, isn't it?
And monetization of content.
(32:34):
Yes.
But I try and do things like I enjoy pet sitting.
So my husband won't let me get a second dog.
I've got this lovely rescue puppy and he said one's enough.
And so this is my way of having a second dog.
I look after other people's dogs sometimes.
And luckily I get paid for it as well.
But yeah, I enjoy it.
So I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it.
(32:55):
So you've got to find things that, you know, you enjoy.
And I always say this downsizing your career, like, you know, I guess people could say,
oh, you downsize your career, you downgrade it.
I don't think of it as a downgrade.
I think of it as downsizing in a way because I've got less responsibility, less stress,
less hours and less pay.
But downsizing your career is not necessarily downsizing your life.
(33:18):
So I've just, you know, to me, the flexibility around my kids and to have time for my creative pursuits is worth it.
Yeah.
I wouldn't say never, say never to going back to to court.
Pritap was the right job and the right, you know, hours and the right environment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As long as your creative need is being fulfilled elsewhere, right?
(33:41):
Yeah.
And like I said, as my kids get older, it's it's easier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
More sufficient.
I can say, right, go make your lunch lunches, you know, so my son has to pack the lunchboxes every night.
That's his job now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, OK.
So you're getting time back elsewhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That that's interesting.
(34:01):
So I like that it's sort of like this continuum, isn't it?
It's ever changing of where's this balance of work, life, play and where you can slot in creativity throughout it.
If you're not necessarily getting it from your full like full time, you know, main job, where else can you get it in your life?
(34:22):
That's cool.
Absolutely.
We've all got different seasons of life.
So I've been through the really young, you know, preschool kind of kids age and that that that's hard before your kids go to school.
That's hard.
But then even as they start going to school, there's other challenges.
So, you know, at the moment, my son's got a big assignment due on Friday that has been a little painful.
(34:46):
But we're getting through it.
So there's home making things like that.
And then they've got different emotional needs as they grow up.
So there's different seasons of life.
But he doesn't need me to sit down and spoon feed him and that kind of things.
And, you know, my daughter can she she's seven.
She's just started being able to run her own.
I trust her to run her own bath now without me needing to test the water.
Like she knows what to do and that kind of thing.
(35:07):
She's careful.
So there's other other things that kind of change slightly.
But yeah, as they get older, it gets a bit easier because they're not as dependent on you for the basic stuff.
And, you know, I've got a colleague that I used to work with in corporate.
He retired a couple of years ago and I've heard that he sits at home and writes screenplays now and is free time.
Oh, cool.
(35:28):
It's another season of life, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I hope that people don't have to wait till retirement to to refine their creative outlet again.
But you've given suddenly given a lot of good tips and insights for people how how people can incrementally add little bits of creativity throughout their life.
(35:51):
You know, work and home as well.
So, wow. Yeah, thank you so much.
That was a really interesting conversation.
We talked around the world, I think, but.
Starting with decluttering, ending up with the screenplays.
So that's great.
Thank you for having me.
I really enjoyed the chat.
It's been great.
(36:11):
Oh, yes.
It's just enough dusting off my microphone.
Oh, no, it's absolutely a pleasure.
Thank you so much for joining me.
And and thank you to everyone who has tuned into Creativity (36:18):
Uncovered today.
I really hope that this episode has inspired you to not only declutter, but also help you to find another way that you can summon your creativity the next time you need it.
Thanks so much.
Take care.
. If you've made it this far.
(37:07):
A huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (37:12):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at Crisp Communications.
And the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(37:33):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around.
And help us on our mission to unlock more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
(gentle music)
[BLANK_AUDIO]
(upbeat music)
(00:02):
All right.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:07):
Uncovered.
My name is Abi Gatling and I'm on a journey
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get inventive and open their imaginations
so they can deliver creative results at home,
work, play and everything in between.
And basically my goal for this podcast
is that by the end of it,
(00:28):
you'll be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways
to summon creativity the next time that you need it.
(upbeat music)
Now today I'm speaking to Mel Jay,
who is an ex-financial planning product manager
and now a professional declutterer,
content creator and a podcast host.
(00:49):
I came across Mel when I listened to an episode
of her podcast about the unexpected benefits
of decluttering and I'm so intrigued to find out more.
Welcome Mel.
- Abi for having me on.
I'm really excited.
It's been a while since I've done a podcast.
So I'm really excited to get back into it
and have a chat with you.
(01:10):
- Oh, well, I'm absolutely pleased
that you've chosen to do it on my show.
So Mel, I sort of kind of mentioned it a little bit more
but I'm really curious
because I've never met a professional declutterer before.
My only frame of reference is Mari Kondo.
But you have a decluttering coaching business
(01:33):
called Simply Mel where you coach people
on how to declutter so they can have more time
and space to spend with their families
and do the things that they love.
So tell me, how did you get into that
and how to get into decluttering
coaching specifically?
- Well, it came by chance.
(01:54):
So I was at home on maternity leave with my second child
and there was just basically a lot of crap around.
Once you have a child and then once you have two children
you accumulate so much stuff.
And I have to admit, my second child was a girl.
I had a boy the first time and so I wanted some girl stuff
and then you buy new toys
(02:15):
and you just get into it.
You buy new toys and you just end up surrounded
by so much stuff.
And also I discovered the second hand economy.
So I was on Facebook trying to sell some things
but I actually ended up buying more than I sold.
- Yes, guilty.
- I jumped on the pages.
Which is not what I recommend to clients.
(02:35):
But so I just decided to declutter my house
and my friend recommended I read Mari Kondo's book
The Life Changing Magic of Tiding Up.
And I couldn't put it down.
I read it in like probably one and a half evenings.
I was just, you know, so I just resonated with what she said
(02:55):
and it motivated me and spurred me on.
So, you know, the very next week I started decluttering
and I'd also been watching a few YouTube mums
on my maternity leave.
And, you know, creativity is something, you know,
I think it's always been a part of me.
And I think because my job in corporate
is not what you would call terribly creative or artsy,
(03:20):
I wasn't really getting that sort of fulfillment
from that, you know, from that part of my life.
So I thought, well, I could probably make a video
and put it up.
So I just filmed myself decluttering things
and giving little decluttering tips
and basically it just snowballed from there.
I'd say I'm not a professional organizer.
Like I'm not, you know, certified or anything like that.
(03:40):
But my, I guess it comes from my experience.
And so I started off helping a few friends
and a few school moms.
And then during COVID, I was doing a few virtual sessions.
I don't sort of drive around to people's houses
and organize that for a few friends,
but, you know, I'm busy mum and that sort of thing.
So right now it's more on the content creation side.
(04:01):
So I love creating content to motivate
and inspire people to declutter
and to give them tips and that sort of thing.
I'm obsessed with decluttering
and luckily because I've got a non-minimalist husband
and two children, I always have plenty of content
because I'm always decluttering and tiny enough after them.
- They're keeping you in business, are they?
(04:22):
- They are, they're giving me plenty of content.
So my husband thinks he's actually doing me a favor.
- Oh my gosh.
And so, and so then, I mean,
there's wildly different from being a product manager.
Are there any transferable skills?
- Financial services.
Well, I guess I'd say I come from a sort of a role
(04:45):
where, you know, you have to have really good attention
to detail, you know, there's a lot of data and compliance.
I'm making it sound so sexy and exciting.
- Wow.
- I'm not a teacher.
- I'm not in task oriented person, though.
So it was sort of a job that suited me to a T.
And I just decided to take a step back a few years ago.
So I've been in corporate for almost 20 years.
(05:07):
And then after I had my second child,
I went back to work for a year.
And then I decided, hey, I actually want to spend more time
with my daughter.
And, you know, I'm very fortunate that I could do that.
My husband has a well-paying job and I could do that.
And I was also doing some freelance work,
just, you know, using my digital skills
from what I'd learned from doing YouTube
and things like that.
(05:28):
But I'm very fortunate I could do that.
But yeah, I think the transferable skills would be,
you've still, you know, you've got to be quite organized,
you know, planning skills, you know, strategizing.
So you need to make a plan to, you know,
if you've got a big job, a big project,
whether it's decluttering or, you know,
a corporate project, you know, in your office,
(05:50):
you do have to, you know, figure out what do I know,
what don't I know, do some research, do some planning,
you know, plan your action steps and then implement.
So that's a transferable skill and attention to detail.
- Yeah.
Well, so I've always been a very detailed person.
- Yeah, cool.
And so what does decluttering have to do with
(06:12):
helping people spend more time with their families?
What's the link there?
- Well, I think people spend so much time,
well, there's a couple of things.
When we get into, you know, we start earning more,
you know, you get that lifestyle creep
and you start buying more stuff.
So you actually spend more of your time working to pay off,
(06:35):
you know, the mortgage or the nicer car
or the material things or the holidays and things like that.
Not that holidays are bad.
I always say experiences are better than, you know,
accumulating stuff.
- Yeah.
- So that's one side of it.
But the other side is if you've got a smaller house
and less stuff to maintain, you've just got more free time.
(06:55):
So instead of spending heaps of time cleaning or dusting
or, you know, trying to organize things
or trying to find items that you've lost
because it doesn't have a home
or there's just too much stuff and you can't see things,
you've got more time to spend on the things
that you do like doing like spending time with your family
or, you know, going to the beach
or doing a hobby or something like that.
(07:17):
- Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And so you sort of mentioned creativity before
and when we spoke for the last time,
you said that you're having your business,
so your decoding coaching business
has helped you find yourself
and also spend more time with your family.
Tell us about that.
(07:38):
Like how I feel like as a business owner,
I have less time than the average person
for you managed to find more time.
Like, what's your secret?
- I think I've just gotten better at segmenting things.
And I have to say, you know,
because both of my kids are in school now,
once both of them are in school,
it does get a little bit easier
(07:58):
and a bit more self-sufficient.
You know, you don't have to, you know, bath them every night.
You just say, "Go take a shower."
So that side of it gets easier.
But I think,
partly the coaching,
so I discovered a skill that I didn't necessarily,
you know, use before.
And I discovered, I guess in a way, you know,
my corporate job,
(08:18):
I did mentor some younger staff members.
I've had staff reporting to me before,
so in that way, you're teaching people things,
showing them how to do a job
or you're mentoring in some sort of way.
But, you know, never, you know,
sort of a formal capacity, formal relationship.
And so when you're coaching someone,
whether it's even just, you know, coaching my dad,
(08:40):
for example, I went and decluttered
my parents kitchen with them
because my mum reckons dad's a hoarder.
But I think there's scales of hoarding.
I think we've all got a little bit of hoarder in us.
(laughs)
But, you know, even just coaching my dad,
it's a skill and I just discover I like teaching,
I like sharing information with people.
(09:02):
And then that comes into the content creation
because really a lot of my content is quite informative
or I'm trying to demonstrate what I'm doing,
I'll explain what I'm doing
or just show people by, you know, filming myself,
you know, on a time that's just cluttering a room
and then, you know, there might be a voiceover
explaining what I'm doing
or I might just do a straight tips video,
(09:22):
things like that.
And then even, you know, posts on social media,
it's basically trying to share information with people,
to empower them to, you know, get more order in their lives
so that they've got more time for themselves.
- Yeah, absolutely.
And content creation, I feel, can be very stressful
because, you know, there's this constant pressure
(09:44):
to keep creating new content
that is interesting and engaging and, you know,
and even having the skills to be able to do that
as well as the confidence to be on camera to do that.
Yeah, how do you find that pressure?
And how do you continually come up with new ideas
for your videos and for your podcast episodes
and, yeah, your YouTube channel and all that sort of stuff?
(10:08):
- Well, I actually took a break.
So during, you know, when everything locked down in COVID,
everyone was at home and I've been on YouTube
for about three years by that point
and I found it hard to film around my family.
My husband doesn't like to be on camera at all
and I'm very cautious about how much of my kids
that I'll show just for their own privacy.
I don't use their real names.
(10:29):
For example, I use their names when I refer to them
and things like that.
So safeguarding their privacy.
But then also I had another priority, you know,
I had to remote school my son
and keep my daughter occupied, she was in preschool at the time.
So I actually took a step back.
And also after doing YouTube for a few years
(10:49):
and I think to trying to turn it into a business,
sometimes that can put even more pressure on you
when you've got pressure to monetize it
and it's not as much fun anymore.
So I took a long break, a three year break in fact
and I've only just started getting back into video now.
(11:09):
I was doing the podcast though at the time
so I kind of swapped something, you know,
the video out for podcasting
because I needed to be doing something
but podcasting was easy.
I could do it in a dark room at night,
no makeup on when my kids were asleep.
So it was a lot.
So I think you've got to work with one year bandwidth.
So, you know, if you've got a job,
(11:30):
whether it's part-time, full-time or you've got family,
you've got to think what's realistic for you.
And it's got to be something that you love doing
and love talking about.
So if you hate being on camera,
then doing video content is probably not for you.
Whereas if you like, you know, writing,
you might be better at blogging
or if you like chatting to people, podcast would be fine.
(11:52):
You don't necessarily need to show your face.
And on Instagram, you don't need to necessarily show your face
either on video, there's ways to do videos.
So it's got to be something, a topic that you love.
It's got to be sustainable.
Otherwise you won't keep it up.
There's no point in putting stuff on a topic
that, you know, you're not that passionate about.
It's got to be something that you're curious about.
(12:14):
I'm always reading, you know, articles and books
and, you know, watching documentaries or YouTube videos
that and watching other people declutter
because that motivates and inspires me as well.
And there's always, you know, new things you can learn
or new ways of creating content that you can learn.
So that sort of thing is interesting to me.
So those are the key things.
(12:35):
And if you need to take a break, take a break.
For me, you know, it's easy to get caught up
and subscribe in numbers.
So I think I got to about, you know, a very small channel.
I only got up to about 2000 subscribers
and it went down a bit when I had a break.
And I know that when I start publishing videos again,
it's probably going to go down again
(12:55):
because people will realize,
oh, I'm still subscribed to this person.
Not really interested unsubscribe,
but then I'll get new people in as well.
- Yeah.
- And I've learned it's not the quality of, you know,
who's following you.
It's the quality of the people.
So those people who are really into your content
and engaging.
- Yeah.
- And into them.
(13:16):
And that's what we're viewing.
- Oh yeah, absolutely.
That's something I've heard a few times is that
when people doing content creation for social media,
then it's so easy to focus just on the numbers
and seeing that follow rate go up,
the subscriber rate go up.
(13:39):
And sometimes it can be to the detriment of your content.
Yeah, because you might be doing, going,
oh, well, if I do something that's really click baity
or something that's sensational,
I'll get more eyeballs.
But like you said, it's not the engagement.
It's not the true followers.
It's kind of a playoff, isn't it?
(14:00):
- Yeah, I mean, for example, on Instagram,
you could be doing a reel where it's like dancing
or you know the ones where they point
and do certain things or-
- Yeah.
- ... to audio or whatever it is.
But that might not be your style.
And it will come across like that.
It will look awkward.
So it's got to be authentic to you.
I think I've only done one when I danced.
It was just because I liked the song
(14:22):
and it fitted in with the particular idea
that I had at the time.
So it's got to be something that really resonates with you.
Don't just do it because you think,
oh, that's going to get me trends and that kind of thing.
- Yeah, so I try not to focus on the numbers
'cause I think really it's about the content.
I want to produce content that helps people,
(14:44):
that inspires people, that's fun.
I'm a bit quirky and funny sometimes.
For a while I did a few parody videos on my YouTube channel.
I did like a frozen song parody, which is really cheesy.
And I had to do the lyrics myself
'cause I re-wrote the lyrics
and I cannot sing it all on, but Tone Deaf.
'Cause I was a bit cringy.
I need to find this video.
(15:05):
(laughs)
- Yeah, but it's kind of funny and yeah,
it's called, do you want to go to Kmart?
As opposed to do you want to build snowman?
For a while my son was young, we'd go to the mall
and he'd be like, "Mom, do you want to go to Kmart?"
(laughs)
I mean, it's sing it.
I can't sing it.
- I won't make you do that,
(15:28):
but I'm definitely funny at after this.
- Yeah, can you just say something to sing a song, your voice?
Do you want to get to Kmart?
(laughs)
- Yeah.
- It was fun and I just had this idea one day
and I don't know where it came from.
Well, obviously I was watching a lot of Frozen
at the time of my kids.
And the lyrics just pulled out of me
and I had to sit down right that minute and write it down.
(15:49):
And then I did the audio and the next day
when my son was at a daycare or school,
probably daycare at that point
and my daughter was having a nap.
I filmed it all during her,
you know, sort of one and a half hour nap.
And I had it all planned out in my head.
I didn't write it down.
I just had it in my head and I did it.
And some of it I managed to do even after she woke up
(16:09):
'cause even if she's crying or whatever,
or making noise in the background,
he's put it on, you know, he's got the audio over it.
So it didn't matter.
So there's ways of creating content that fit in with,
you know, your circumstances and your schedule.
- Yeah.
- I have to say, do you, whatever fits with you,
whatever resonates with you, whatever you feel
is comfortable for you.
(16:31):
Don't try and copy, you know, or emulate someone else
because you think that's what's going to get you views
or hits or that kind of thing.
But in terms of keeping, you know,
getting the ideas fresh and things,
that's why I needed to take a break, I think,
because I was forcing the ideas, you know,
I've done so many decluttering videos.
(16:52):
And in a way, I was getting caught up a bit
in the view metrics thinking,
no one's watching them, what am I doing this for?
But right now for me, I think, you know,
it doesn't matter if I put out a video after three years
and I only get one or two views,
I'm doing it to satisfy myself and it could help people.
You don't know how many people are actually watching,
(17:13):
you know, even if you don't get a comment.
I don't comment on a lot of people's stuff,
even if I really like it.
And sometimes I even forget to thumbs up or whatever it is.
So you really never know how many people you're impacting.
I've had a couple of mums at school come up to me and said,
"Oh, you know, I saw you did such and such on your Instagram."
You know, I think it was a grocery haul
(17:34):
that I did a couple of years ago.
I was like, I didn't realize anyone had actually seen that.
She was like, "Oh, that's really good.
It's inspired me to go and plan some meals."
But you know, that's just because she happened to see me,
but she never comments, you know, on this.
So--
- That's interesting for a lot of people, isn't it?
- It impacts that you don't necessarily see.
So you can't get too up in your head about,
(17:56):
oh, no one's watching this or, you know,
it's gonna be something that's satisfying to you.
- Yeah, yeah, wow.
That's cool.
I love that.
I love the having the freedom of your own business
gives you the opportunity to explore and flex these muscles,
which you may not have had the opportunity to in the past.
And yeah, your idea creation and learning the video skills
(18:17):
and the editing skills, that's really cool.
And so I mentioned sort of at the beginning,
I kind of came across to you
'cause of this episode that I've,
of your podcast I listened to about
the unexpected benefits of decluttering
and how that's led you into down a whole new creative path.
Tell me how, tell me a little bit about that.
(18:42):
Like how did decluttering itself
make you feel more creative?
- Well, I think it also stems from me being a person
that kind of needs order around me to function.
So if I go to sit down to work, my desk is messy.
I'm like, oh, it's so distracted.
I just want to clear space.
(19:02):
I don't like mess around.
And it's like I said to my kid,
my husband, if you're cooking one night
and then you don't clean up the kitchen,
I'm not inspired to make breakfast the next day
'cause there's all this mess around.
I like to cook.
Some people aren't like that
and they can get on with it.
But I need order in my life.
(19:24):
But also I saw that the content I was creating
was helping people and I didn't really intend to,
you know, go to people's houses
or even start coaching people.
But I had a couple of mums come up to me at school
and say, oh, I need to declutter.
Do you offer that kind of service?
And I'm like, well, not really,
but I can come around and help you.
(19:45):
And they paid me for it.
So, and I knew it was a thing.
Yeah, so I mean, I enjoy it.
I think I enjoy the content creation more
and I enjoy the business side of things.
And, you know, I did some freelance social media stuff
for people.
I've done video editing for people.
(20:06):
So I think, you know, in terms of actual services,
rather than go around and declutter people's houses,
I'm more interested in teaching people.
And then also helping people, other content creators as well.
That's something that, you know,
I'll be exploring this year as well further.
How can I help other people?
Might not necessarily be through the same channel,
(20:27):
but it might be through other ways
just on social media inspiring people
or having chats to people if they want to,
you know, chat to me and engage.
Yeah.
But I wrote down some ideas on how I get my ideas.
Oh, yes.
And this is a thing.
I took my journal to the coffee shop
after I dropped the kids off.
And that's one thing I worked with a coach,
Kukali, Kali Murray.
(20:47):
And she always used to say scribbles before scrolls.
So before you pick up your phone and start scrolling,
you know, pick up a pen and paper
and you don't need to journal like, you know,
five pages of stuff.
It could just be one thought.
Just get your thoughts out of your head first thing in the morning
before you let all the external stuff get into your head.
(21:07):
Yeah.
And that's where the ideas may come from.
Just might be a random thought
and that might turn into an Instagram post
or an idea for a video or idea for, you know,
a digital product or whatever it is that you want to create.
Yeah.
Yeah, scribbles before scrolling before--
I love that.
External stuff and other people's ideas
and content get into your head.
(21:28):
Yes.
Create more than you consume.
So, you know, try not to binge too much Netflix and YouTube
before, you know, you create things yourself.
Be intentional about what you consume.
So I actually don't watch a lot of TV shows.
Everyone's doing that Bridget in and Queen Charlotte
and Stranger Things.
(21:48):
I haven't watched any of them because I am a binge out.
I have no limits.
So if I start watching YouTube tonight,
I'll be up till four in the morning because I'll just,
I'll be like, just one more, just one more.
Oh, wow.
Three watch movies because they have a start and a finish.
Yeah.
But I watch a lot of stuff on YouTube and it's more, you know,
(22:09):
people decluttering or it might be learning how to do something
new in my business.
And I read, but it's again, it's more nonfiction books.
It might be something I'm interested in, you know,
learning more about in terms of growing my skills,
that kind of thing.
I get plenty of sleep.
If you're tired, you're not going to be creative.
(22:29):
You're just going to be, you know, surviving the day.
Really?
You're not going to be surviving.
Write down all your ideas immediately.
I have learned this the hard way.
We've had a great idea and I'm like,
I'm just out walking the dog or whatever.
All right, I'll write that down when I get back.
Well, you know, I flesh that out more and I get home and I'm like,
(22:49):
oh my God, it's gone.
I know that feeling.
It's so frustrating, right?
So just on your phone, a voice memo even, you know,
if you, you know, your hands free, a voice memo or on your notes
or post it, whatever, just make sure you get it down in some way,
shape or form because I've got a memory like a goldfish.
(23:11):
Don't get caught up in perfection.
So we were talking about this just before we came on, you know,
whether you're doing a podcast or video,
if there's a little bit of background noise or the light's not quite right or,
you know, your makeup is not quite right or, you know,
you've only got five minutes to record something you think I don't have enough time.
Just do it.
You'd be surprised how much you can get done and what you can actually produce.
(23:33):
The day I produced that frozen song video, I had this massive pimple
and I was like, oh, this is going to look horrible.
I watched the video back.
I can't even see it.
Yeah.
I can't even see it.
I just remember if I'd been all up on my head, that video would not exist.
Yeah, absolutely.
What, like, why do you think we are so harsh on ourselves in that that,
like, this idea of perfectionism has come up a few times when I've been speaking
(23:57):
to people about, yeah, there's always some excuse why you can't put something out.
Like you said, I've got a pimple or my voice didn't sound good in that one or whatever.
But like, why, why do we do that?
Why do you think you do that?
Well, I think it's a couple of things.
I think it's, you know, our work represents us.
So we want it to be the best we can.
(24:18):
It can be when we put it out in the world and we want to share something
that's really great, you know, you know, if we think something doesn't look quite right,
we're like, oh, people aren't going to watch that.
It's not going to be good.
But the big one is fear of judgment.
I think we're so worried about what other people think of us and what they're going to say.
And I've just learnt you can't please everyone.
(24:41):
I mean, I've put out videos before where I've had so many comments saying,
oh, that was boring.
You talk too much or, you know, whatever.
And then other people that said that same video, oh, that was so helpful.
That was wonderful.
So you're not going to be able to please everyone.
Everyone's going to have a different opinion and an idea.
I think you've just got to please yourself.
And if, you know, people find it helpful, that's great.
(25:02):
Not everyone will.
Yeah. Yeah.
You mentioned in that in that episode that I listened to about how you've got this new sense
of creativity and you're trying out new hobbies and things like that.
But you sort of had this interesting reflection on how, you know, as a kid,
(25:24):
you used to be really creative and write stories and draw and all this sort of stuff.
And then now as an adult, you know, before you start this business,
that sort of creativity was kind of whittling away down to nothing.
And I just found that so interesting because I think that's so true as adults.
We've got to go, if it's not, if it's not important and if it's not to do with making money
(25:48):
or some other reason, then we just kind of don't do it.
But, you know, talking to you now, you're coming alive when you're talking about creativity.
So it's definitely a thing that I think more people should put into their,
into their lives and not be so afraid to put stuff out there just because.
Oh, absolutely. And it could just be where you start an Instagram account
(26:11):
and you just post little, you know, 15 second stories every now and then.
I actually give that as a tip to people if they want to get comfortable on camera.
Even if they do an Instagram story and at first they don't actually publish it,
it just gets them used to talking to the camera. It's practice.
And so my motto, well, particularly in the last month, where I've been really committed to,
(26:33):
I'm like, right, I'm going to restart my YouTube channel.
I want to put stuff out there and help people again.
And I want to, you know, do something that I've, that inspires myself as well as other people.
So my, and I even wrote on my whiteboard, my doodle was like, what's that written on Monday?
I've got this weekly whiteboard and I couldn't find any other room.
So it's on Monday and it says create every day.
(26:55):
So I create something every day and that could be as simple as writing down an idea
or taking a photo or editing a video.
So it's not necessarily me jumping in front of the camera and filming something or
or doing an Instagram post, but it might be just something that contributes to the creation of something every day.
Yeah.
(27:15):
That whole thing of, you know, creating a habit.
And that does needs to take, you know, could take 30 seconds to write down an idea that popped into my head.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think if you say, I'm going to film every day, it's probably not going to happen.
You know, life gets in the way.
Excuse me.
But yeah, I think, you know, as a child, I was very creative.
(27:36):
But then and, you know, all credit to my parents, they thought they were doing the right thing.
I used to say, you know, do you watch that show The Chase and they've got that one of the chases is Tiger Mum.
I say that my mum was the wannabe Tiger Mum.
I've had a bit. She's not like that anymore.
I think she realizes that, you know, I'm doing stuff that fulfills me and she's very proud of me.
(28:00):
She says that. But when I was a kid, you know, my parents are like, OK, you need to go to university.
You need to do a business degree and you need to do accounting.
And so they would they chose all of my subjects in high school, you know, accounting, even though they went my strongest subjects.
I didn't enjoy them that much.
(28:22):
So I went to university and did a business degree.
And so I think you get caught up in life and doing what you think you should do, what's expected.
Or, you know, I'm an adult now, so I should do the the sensible thing instead of indulging in what makes me happy.
And, you know, there's a balance. You can do both.
You know, obviously, we all have to go to work and pay our bills.
But I think, you know, if there's an itching side of you that says, I must create something, then indulge it.
(28:48):
And it doesn't have to be something that means you quit your job like I did.
That's pretty extreme.
Yeah. I mean, for a while in that period, you know, I don't want to say, you know, I think a lot of people see big, you know, YouTubers on, you know, different channels, especially in the US, you know,
mums who clean their houses, for example, when they quit their jobs and that's what they do full time.
(29:12):
I was doing virtual administration, you know, I was doing some subcontracting for people doing social media management.
So I still had money coming in, but then I also had, you know, my daughter at home with me, you know, two or three days a week.
So yeah, other stuff as well.
And I think it's just me.
And that's why I started my YouTube channel when I was on maternity leave.
(29:34):
Even though I loved being a mum at home with my child, I think I've got the sort of brain that needs to be learning something or creating something or
producing something of some sort.
Yeah.
Whether it's generating money through doing, you know, a job or whatever it is.
And I have a part-time job now.
I've got a part-time job working 20 hours a week for a very nice company.
(29:56):
And I'm very lucky that it's all remote so I can work all from home.
And when my day is off, I do, you know, I create content and I talk to people like yourself.
I'm doing podcasting and things like that.
Yeah, that's cool.
I do like that's kind of the way the world is moving is this more flexibility in your life.
(30:17):
And I don't know if it's like a worldwide trend, but certainly in my sort of connections, there seems to be this more since COVID, there seems to be this focus more on what's fulfilling me and what's going to make me happy rather than this straight career track that people used to be on.
(30:38):
And people being a bit more creative about how they approach their work life, you know, whether that's going part-time, remote, doing, moving into the gig economy, starting their own business.
You know, it's just, it's really interesting to see.
And I really love the idea that people are making more time and more space for themselves to be able to fill and chase the things that make them happy.
(31:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's why I say to people, beware of lifestyle creep.
So when you get a pay rise, don't think, oh, I'm going to go out and buy a really fancy car now, or, you know, maybe the car you've still got is good enough because I think that's when people lock themselves into this lifestyle that they may get to a point and they're not happy with all the amount of time they're spending working in their job or they may not enjoy that particular job anymore.
(31:33):
And then they feel kind of stuck because, you know, they're paying for things that they need to keep paying for.
They made these financial commitments.
So I always say beware of lifestyle creep.
Yeah.
But, you know, we, I live in Sydney.
We've got a mortgage that is, you know, increasing at the moment because of the interest rate rises.
And so, you know, I'm still working part-time, like I said.
(31:53):
And then, you know, sometimes I still take on the odd freelance job.
And I'm probably going to pick that up again because I enjoy it.
And now that my kids are settled in, you know, both my kids are settled in school.
I've got the time to take on that extra work.
I also pet sit sometimes as well.
So I'm doing that.
(32:13):
So it's not, you know, I'm sitting there all day, every day, making videos, waiting for, you know,
Google AdSense money to roll in from the ads on YouTube videos, which is not very much, by the way.
That won't pay us any mortgage.
Yeah.
That's a whole other thing, isn't it?
And monetization of content.
(32:34):
Yes.
But I try and do things like I enjoy pet sitting.
So my husband won't let me get a second dog.
I've got this lovely rescue puppy and he said one's enough.
And so this is my way of having a second dog.
I look after other people's dogs sometimes.
And luckily I get paid for it as well.
But yeah, I enjoy it.
So I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it.
(32:55):
So you've got to find things that, you know, you enjoy.
And I always say this downsizing your career, like, you know, I guess people could say,
oh, you downsize your career, you downgrade it.
I don't think of it as a downgrade.
I think of it as downsizing in a way because I've got less responsibility, less stress,
less hours and less pay.
But downsizing your career is not necessarily downsizing your life.
(33:18):
So I've just, you know, to me, the flexibility around my kids and to have time for my creative pursuits is worth it.
Yeah.
I wouldn't say never, say never to going back to to court.
Pritap was the right job and the right, you know, hours and the right environment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As long as your creative need is being fulfilled elsewhere, right?
(33:41):
Yeah.
And like I said, as my kids get older, it's it's easier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
More sufficient.
I can say, right, go make your lunch lunches, you know, so my son has to pack the lunchboxes every night.
That's his job now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, OK.
So you're getting time back elsewhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That that's interesting.
(34:01):
So I like that it's sort of like this continuum, isn't it?
It's ever changing of where's this balance of work, life, play and where you can slot in creativity throughout it.
If you're not necessarily getting it from your full like full time, you know, main job, where else can you get it in your life?
(34:22):
That's cool.
Absolutely.
We've all got different seasons of life.
So I've been through the really young, you know, preschool kind of kids age and that that that's hard before your kids go to school.
That's hard.
But then even as they start going to school, there's other challenges.
So, you know, at the moment, my son's got a big assignment due on Friday that has been a little painful.
(34:46):
But we're getting through it.
So there's home making things like that.
And then they've got different emotional needs as they grow up.
So there's different seasons of life.
But he doesn't need me to sit down and spoon feed him and that kind of things.
And, you know, my daughter can she she's seven.
She's just started being able to run her own.
I trust her to run her own bath now without me needing to test the water.
Like she knows what to do and that kind of thing.
(35:07):
She's careful.
So there's other other things that kind of change slightly.
But yeah, as they get older, it gets a bit easier because they're not as dependent on you for the basic stuff.
And, you know, I've got a colleague that I used to work with in corporate.
He retired a couple of years ago and I've heard that he sits at home and writes screenplays now and is free time.
Oh, cool.
(35:28):
It's another season of life, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I hope that people don't have to wait till retirement to to refine their creative outlet again.
But you've given suddenly given a lot of good tips and insights for people how how people can incrementally add little bits of creativity throughout their life.
(35:51):
You know, work and home as well.
So, wow. Yeah, thank you so much.
That was a really interesting conversation.
We talked around the world, I think, but.
Starting with decluttering, ending up with the screenplays.
So that's great.
Thank you for having me.
I really enjoyed the chat.
It's been great.
(36:11):
Oh, yes.
It's just enough dusting off my microphone.
Oh, no, it's absolutely a pleasure.
Thank you so much for joining me.
And and thank you to everyone who has tuned into Creativity (36:18):
Uncovered today.
I really hope that this episode has inspired you to not only declutter, but also help you to find another way that you can summon your creativity the next time you need it.
Thanks so much.
Take care.
. If you've made it this far.
(37:07):
A huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (37:12):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at Crisp Communications.
And the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(37:33):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around.
And help us on our mission to unlock more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
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