December 25, 2023 • 43 mins
How can you get back into creativity after a long period without it?
My guest this episode is Kimberly Lahodny, a performance artist and screenwriter, who has lived this experience a number of times. Moving states, motherhood, career changes, all have had an impact on her creativity and she found it a struggle to get back on track.
Now she helps other women find their creativity again through her SPARK movement.
This conversation explores the pressures and joys of creativity and how Kimberly got her SPARK back.
Happy listening!
xo Abi
Ps. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: www.crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/how-to-find-your-creativity-again
Creativity: Uncovered is lovingly edited by the team at Crisp Communications.
Creativity: Uncovered is a registered Australian Trade Mark.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:00):
Uncovered.
(00:09):
My name is Abi Gatling and I am on a journey to uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get inventive and open their imagination.
I really want to know how people find creative solutions and then how they use them at home,
work, play and everything in between.
(00:30):
And my goal for this podcast is that by the end of it you'll be armed with a whole suite
of tried and tested ways to summon creativity the next time that you need it.
Now today I am speaking with Kimberly Lahodny who is an actor, singer, dancer, screenwriter,
(00:52):
she's working radio, she's working TV and she is now the founder of a movement that helps
women reclaim their creative genius and skyrocket their life ROI.
And I'm so, so keen to find out how she does it.
So let's dive in.
Welcome, Kimberly.
Thank you, Abi.
Well, I'm really excited to be here.
This is a bit of a personal journey for me because I've restarted my creative life several times.
(01:19):
So when we came up with a way to articulate this to others so that they could get back
into their creative life, it really brought up so many things in my own journey that reminded
me how important it was that creativity be an active part of someone's life for their whole
life long, whether they're trying to get back in professionally or if they just need it in their
(01:42):
daily life because they don't know who they are without it.
So I don't know where you want me to start.
I can tell you a little bit about my crazy journey or we can go into how all of this began, but
where do you want me to start?
Look over any and all of the above.
But given that you mentioned it, like, you know, your draw to creativity,
(02:05):
tell me what is creativity to you and what is it that you just keep going back to?
Oh, that is so great.
So it was really funny when I was preparing for this.
I thought about the first word in our little returning to creative life and that's surrendering
to who you are.
(02:25):
And I believe that we're each made in a particular way to respond to the world around us
in a creative expression.
Some of it can come out more corporate.
Some of it can come out much more creative.
But we know it when we're kids.
We know that when we encounter something beautiful or we hear music for the first time
(02:48):
or we have an inspirational experience, there is an inclination to respond.
And each for each person, it's completely different.
And I know for me, I needed to articulate what I was feeling and sensing in a physical way.
But I didn't know how to do that.
(03:08):
And I actually had a couple of people in my life direct me towards what ultimately really was like
dance and acting and articulating what I was seeing in a way that looked different than
how it was coming in.
Does that make sense?
Oh, I mean, it's reinterpretation.
(03:30):
It is reinterpretation, but we do that all the time.
So so much information comes at us on a daily basis and how we process that in our minds
allows us to digest it and make it our own.
It gives us understanding.
And for a creative person, that can articulate into another form of a creative expression that's
(03:54):
needed.
We don't know that it's needed.
We feel awkward and weird when we're little.
We think that we're really strange for wanting to take this thing that we saw and then go paint
a picture or go write something or create a play or whatever.
But we have this natural inclination.
I know for me, the very first time I heard classical music, I wanted to I wanted to dance
(04:16):
and I wanted to choreograph something.
And it was very natural.
Like I couldn't keep myself from doing it.
And even if it wasn't socially appropriate at that moment, later on in the day or at some point in my
in my daily life, I had to take that thing and make it my own somehow and create something out
of it.
(04:36):
And it felt so needed.
It felt like I had to like if you see something, say something.
If you experience something, create something.
And I think that if you're inclined creatively, you don't know where it comes from necessarily,
but you know that you need it.
You don't know if anyone else needs it.
But like you feel restless unless you produce something.
(05:01):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
It's kind of like this feeling that is bubbling away inside of you and you have to express it somehow.
And for some people, it is through a creative expression.
I love that.
Oh, yeah.
Well, and I'll tell you one of the funniest first things that I think I did.
(05:23):
And I'm sure there are many.
I don't know the age range of our podcast.
So I'm going to definitely date myself.
But when I was a little girl and I heard Madonna's material girl for the first time,
I then immediately had to perform it for my family.
And I had to create a dance and there was a whole a whole show.
And that's what I had to do.
(05:44):
Like I had to make it mine and then I had to tell it to somebody else.
And I think that is the human experience.
But I think we are all so embarrassed.
And at times we can be shamed and then we walk away from some of the things we feel inclined to do.
Yeah, totally.
That that is a recurring theme on this podcast is that people are embarrassed,
(06:09):
particularly if they haven't done anything that is overly creative in a while.
They are kind of embarrassed to put themselves out there and actually do that.
This kind of fear of judgment and fear that is going to turn out absolutely crap.
Holds them back from actually expressing themselves, which is such a shame.
(06:32):
So it's great to see.
It's great to hear that you're talking about that.
I'm sure we will go into that a bit more when we talk about your movement.
But I want to know how does that, how do you creatively express yourself?
Because you have so many aspects to your personality,
all throughout the plumbing arts, writing, singing, screenwriting.
(06:53):
Let's start there, I guess.
Like what has your creative journey been in terms of your creative career?
Well, my inner life was very rich.
I'm currently doing a small writing piece right now that kind of focuses on like the silent observer.
(07:17):
And for whatever reason, we all have our family life and the things that we've seen in our lives.
Whether they're complicated or, well, we have various experiences that we come from.
A lot of my early life was very proper.
And so it was not appropriate to be very vocal or loud or
(07:46):
artistic in everyday life, except that my mother was an artist.
So she gave me times in the day that it was appropriate.
Now, she was a physical artist.
So she draws and paints and she took time out of her day every day as a mom to give her child about an hour of art.
(08:08):
And during that time, she would teach me about art and we could do anything with that hour.
But that gave me like crazy fuel to start journaling.
So I definitely had a writing journey from very early on.
And then I had this physical and vocal expression that I wanted and needed.
(08:30):
And I didn't, my family did not have room for that.
So it was fun.
You know, I could be at a family event and I could perform Madonna's material overall and everybody thinks it's cute.
But on a daily practice, there was not room in the day for me to go and explore those things unless I was just taking ballet.
(08:52):
Like they had to be these pre-subscribed or prescribed, I'm sorry, boxes that fit the social construct, right?
Like girls go to ballet class or they go and do this or they go and do that.
And that gave me fuel too.
But it wasn't like it wasn't the freedom that I wanted.
Yeah.
Wow.
So I felt like I was like bubbling up.
(09:13):
Yeah.
And my journey was very strange because my mom got me involved in figure skating and this is going to sound very, very strange.
But I was a competitive figure skater at a very young age.
And in that scenario, I took dance to support skating.
I took, I took an acting class to support skating.
(09:33):
And there was so much physical freedom in creating the choreography that went into our artistic program.
Because back then you had your technical program, which was all the things that you have to perform on the ice.
And then your artistic, which was like, you get to, you get to choreograph this with your coach and it can be extremely exciting and daring.
(09:57):
And I had a lot of life in that.
It wasn't as much as I wanted, but it was, it filled that.
That bubble, that creative bubble.
But when I was 13, I had a really bad skating accident.
It took me out of competition.
And for about a year and a half, I did nothing.
And my mom was like, this is, you're a mess.
(10:19):
Like something's wrong.
We need to do something about this.
So she made me go back into dance.
And I got very good at initially at ballet, but then all the other dance styles.
So I took modern and I took jazz and I took tab and I couldn't get enough of that.
And that brought me into theater.
(10:39):
Someone in theater said, can you sing?
So then I started singing.
And then somebody, you know, it just kind of built from there.
Then I, that's like a real, yeah, a real acting class.
And like so many people who are in performing arts, we hear that, that term triple threat.
And so that was the aim that you need to get really good at singing, dancing and acting.
(11:03):
So that any role they throw you into, you can just do.
But as I got older, I also was fascinated by directing and writing.
And having control over what the actors did do.
So that's in short how the journey happened.
But it was, it was because I always felt a little constrained.
(11:26):
And so I couldn't help but want more and more and more.
Yeah.
That's really interesting that a lot of the people who've come on this podcast have spoken about,
I guess, the pressure to move away from creativity.
You get to a certain point where you're told to be serious and you need to stop thinking
about your future and all this stuff.
(11:47):
And that means that creativity kind of gets pushed out.
It's interesting that you had pressure to kind of be creative, but only within these specific
areas.
That is not something we've heard on this before.
That I can imagine the amount of pressure that would bring on you in exactly the same type
of thing.
It's like the pressure to not necessarily be your complete free self.
(12:11):
Yes.
Well, I can relate to that other argument because my father is a very successful lawyer
and developer.
And I have dabbled in real estate development and all that stuff.
Like if you search my name on the internet, you might find out that I have all these other licenses.
But this was always my first thing.
(12:33):
And this is what, for the majority of my life, I've been able to do professionally.
And I had that.
I mean, I would have moments as more of an adult mom, married adult that said, oh, maybe
it's time.
Maybe it's time to stop doing all these things and just get a normal job.
I definitely feel that pressure sometimes.
(12:56):
But then I also don't know if I can emotionally survive if I were to abandon this part of my life.
And it's like what my mother saw.
When I stopped having an outlet, I really saw an emotional, I mean, I would say that there was
depression.
Like there was just, there was an emotional loss.
(13:20):
There was an outlet that wasn't getting plugged in anymore.
And I felt a little dead inside.
Yeah.
And I see that with other people.
Like I see that they were built for so much more and they watch other people do it.
And I think my question has been, what have you walked away from that, you know,
(13:41):
like you're just watching other people do it on social media or on television.
And really, you've given yourself all these arguments why you can't ever do it again.
But what happens if you did?
What would happen if you did?
Go back to everything.
Yeah.
Well, what's the worst that could happen?
Nothing.
It plays into that fear, the fear mindset.
(14:02):
It always comes back to that, doesn't it?
So you were a screenwriter in Los Angeles and then you've moved away from that.
Where are you now?
Not really.
So well, I've moved away from Los Angeles.
So I got my master's in screenwriting at Pepperdine.
(14:23):
And then I worked in a production company for about two and a half years.
And I also worked a lot of other odd jobs because if you live in Los Angeles,
you know that the first couple of years of being anything in Los Angeles,
you just you get paid nothing or you work on favors and you hope somebody's going to see your
(14:43):
talent.
But I worked in creative development and I got to help out on a bunch of things that never gave
me credits.
And when I moved away from Los Angeles, I moved up to Sacramento and that's when I got into radio.
So a lot of my media writing went right into storytelling for radio and that was great.
(15:04):
And I did that for, I think, five years.
And that was a happy place to be.
It wasn't a full fulfillment like I talk about sometimes being art adjacent.
Because as a singer, what did you say?
What is art adjacent?
So it's like you work next to the thing that you love.
(15:25):
I mean, I was at a radio station that I was in the news department.
But I wasn't a I wasn't a recording artist and nobody knew that I could sing.
I mean, so my undergrad is in classical voice and I got a degree in music.
And yet I was working in the newsroom learning about audio production.
(15:49):
Well, I mean, I'd already learned about audio production, but I was creating content
that had nothing to do with the music.
It had everything to do with just social issues and things like that.
So I felt like I was like right next to the thing I loved.
And then at the same time, that radio station was developing.
They thought they would develop a television network and they were asking me to start writing
(16:12):
short little vignettes for the channel.
And I started doing that and then they abandoned it until I think this past year.
So now they're back to doing that, but I don't work for them anymore.
So it's like when you're just next to the thing next to the thing that you love to do,
that's art adjacent.
Yeah, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
(16:32):
Do you think like, is it so close and it's painful or is it good just to still be in the realm of it all?
I think it's good to be in it for different seasons.
I mean, if your season is like that season, I had just gotten married and we started having kids.
And I was doing enough for my resume to still make me valuable in this space.
(16:56):
But it did make me sad that I wasn't creating original content, like original art.
I was just telling a good story well.
And there's a lot of value in that.
I would also say the things that you pick up when you're in an art adjacent job,
like some people, a lot of artists and writers and creatives find themselves in marketing.
(17:21):
They just do because there's a beautiful space where really a creative eye, color,
artistry, creativity can be used in the ad and in marketing field and can be used for persuasive
reasons. There are things to be really proud about in that world.
(17:41):
And there's also things that you're like, I wish my art wasn't involved in that marketing.
I had nothing to do with that.
But I think there's a lot of value because artists become people who understand
that there's a business and a work ethic behind art too.
I think there's definitely validity there.
(18:02):
Yeah, it is interesting because like marketing, it is a form of creativity,
but it is purely for financial gain.
It is.
And so it's kind of what I consider to be creative.
I've moved into this because I wanted to have a career that was allowing me to
(18:24):
head build and also be creative.
But I also kind of feel like it's not a pure expression of my creative self.
Which is why I do these things on the side, like this podcast.
And find other things outside of it because that's when you can truly set the agenda
and express yourself and from who you really are.
(18:47):
And I just think it's as you said, it's like a season.
So let's talk about seasons because a few people have mentioned seasons.
It's kind of like the seasons of the year as seasons of your life, right?
Yes.
Well, I would say that a true artist needs to embrace seasons and rhythms.
And it's really an older concept that comes from really understanding the rhythm of life,
(19:14):
the rhythm of a day, knowing that there are things that we have to do that we're responsible for.
And then there are times where we can meditate.
There are times where we can build up inspiration.
And then there are times to process that.
And that's where the creative life explodes.
And many, many people that came before us had very robust creative lives.
(19:36):
You know, when we didn't have so much television, when we...
And I say that, I mean, I've been in that industry, but I can call it what it is,
a lot of it is distraction.
Some of it is gorgeous.
Some of it, when you're watching, you know, you've been changed by something.
And I think that's the purpose of good art.
(19:57):
But some of it is just there to distract you and to sell you things.
So we got to get real about that.
But when there was not that, you had people reading to one another.
You had people composing poetry.
You had people rising very early and talking about how their senses translated
what they were seeing in their day.
(20:18):
And I think that there are definitely seasons like motherhood.
And I don't think we talk enough about this.
There is so much incredible sorrow and beauty and depth of life that happens in motherhood.
And artists, I think, can beat themselves up during that season
if they're not producing during that season.
(20:40):
But I would say that if they embraced that, they're building up a huge wealth of things
they can use later.
And I also think that there's a part of you that whatever is happening,
not just motherhood, because that's a very narrow, at this time,
(21:02):
not everybody experiences motherhood.
But there are tragic things, difficult things, things that take you out of the loop.
But an artist embraces all of it and then uses it later.
And I think that's also what keeps an artist sane.
Otherwise, they do other things like try to mask it.
(21:23):
Because artists also feel things really deeply.
I'd argue that every person was meant to be a creative being in one way or another.
But artists are often they're empathic and they feel things and they have to
figure out how to process what they're feeling.
And that's why so many of them get themselves into trouble with
(21:48):
addictive things because they feel so much.
And if they don't have a place to reprocess and get it out,
it can actually get them very sad.
So I'm going back to mental health.
But I think that's all on purpose.
I think we're meant to get it out.
(22:09):
And that's why the fear stuff, going back to fear and stigma, is really a lie.
Because for better or worse, you're meant to be this way.
It's not a mistake.
I guess I think it's like whatever your expression is, if it's true to you, then it's right.
I mean, yeah, I think so.
(22:30):
I mean, I think we've put around us the image of who gets to tell the story.
And I talk a little bit about this in the first element of the spark movement.
We have let casting directors and people tell us who our singers are and who our actors are
(22:51):
and who gets to write this and who gets to tell this.
There is, I can't remember the statistic.
I wish I had pulled it up today.
But there's a picture on my website that shows you that I was one of only three, no, four girls
in a 50-person writing program, all the rest for none.
So that means that the majority of content that we consume on a daily basis is being produced by men.
(23:16):
It's changing.
We have a lot more women voices going out.
But notoriously, the main voices that are going out and creating content are not women.
And that's interesting too.
That's a whole other topic.
But we will take ourselves out of the artistic game sometimes because we think that we don't fit an image
(23:39):
and that is just baloney.
It's really a huge deficit that I think our world is missing.
Yes.
So that's a pretty good segue into talking about your spark movement,
which is primarily targeted towards women, isn't it?
It is.
(23:59):
Well, I think because I am a woman and I can only know how I felt.
I've talked to some guys that have gone through this,
but there are so many things in a woman's life that can absolutely derail what we're doing,
especially in the physical arts.
Like if you're a dancer and let's say you do have a baby.
Well, that just sometimes that takes you out of performing or out of what you think you physically
(24:25):
need to look like.
And that can just derail you forever.
You might say, "Well, I'll never be back in shape or I'll never be able to do that again."
And it's like, "Well, you might be right if you never try again too."
There may be limitations.
Your body may forever have changed, but maybe not.
So is it going to help you any to put the limit around you?
(24:48):
So I think it's directed more at women just because we've got so many things that
really when those things happen, your life stops.
Like when a baby is born, which I just had another baby, which is insane.
Yes.
You know, immediately, like everything stops for a second, at least for a while.
So we can definitely talk about it.
(25:09):
I think the spark movement came out of the things I've had to do several different times.
I mentioned that we just had a baby.
I'm not going to say that she was our oops baby.
We're delighted that she's here, but we did not know that this was happening.
And she's our fourth.
(25:30):
So that's crazy.
Yes, congratulations.
Thank you.
But also, wow, like, I mean, we were, we are so excited.
And it really actually allows me to test out something that I've been pursuing now that
my kids are old enough, which is doing this spark movement in front of them,
(25:52):
which I think is really key to what we're about to talk about.
So the first letter, so we love our little acronyms, right?
Spark stands for five things that you can do right now to get yourself back in the game.
And the first one is surrender.
So surrendering basically to who you know you're meant to be.
Like you have been this person your whole life.
(26:15):
Like maybe you've been writing feverishly in a journal since you were tiny.
And you think it's nonsense, but really you're Joan Didion and you don't know.
There are things that you see that only you've seen.
There are things that you can say, maybe you're a songwriter, maybe,
you know, maybe you are a singer songwriter, maybe you have whole ideas in your head,
(26:36):
but you never ever put them down because you don't think that you fit the bill.
Surrendering is really just saying, you know, and I am this thing,
raise your hand and self identify.
It's like, alcoholics, anonymous.
It's like, yes, I am this.
I confess I'm secretly an artist and I hate saying that because I feel like I know all
(26:58):
these other amazing artists that are really artists, but I too am an artist and I'm going
to start acting like one.
So that's really what surrender is.
And that's really hard.
That's like one of the hardest things to do.
Women can be self-defeating.
Women take themselves out of the game.
And women tend to have an idea or an ideal of what something should look like
(27:23):
and they'll give you 10 to 100 reasons why they aren't what their ideal is.
And art is really about living in the moment.
But if you're really practicing a creative life, you're not.
This is really hard to do.
You're not judging your art.
You're just doing it.
That's where the joy comes from.
(27:44):
So we have to stop judging ourselves and we have to self identify.
I wrote this thing down.
I want to read it really fast because I think it's really important.
When I was in LA, I often heard people say that the movie theater was their church.
And that's probably because I was around industry people and this is like their whole life.
(28:04):
That's where they didn't go to church.
They didn't go to a religious institution.
So they never heard anyone give them a sermon, but a good movie could change their life.
And that's what great art is.
I know I mentioned that.
But great art is about showing somebody something different, a different perspective.
And when they see it, they've experienced something that they couldn't experience themselves
(28:28):
or they've always felt that way, but they couldn't articulate it.
And so your voice is absolutely necessary because it might help somebody else get somewhere
that they couldn't get to on their own.
It's as if your creative gift is part of a divine conversation and the creator,
(28:49):
whether you believe that or not, gave you that gift so that you could be part of that discussion
and lift somebody and yourself into a different place out of the monotony of our everyday.
So that's why we have to self identify.
Like if you say you're not this thing, you're cutting off your own arm.
(29:09):
Okay. So P. So S is surrender.
P is pursue wonder.
So this is when I've self identified and now you need to like be present.
This is really hard for people because our lives move really fast.
So you do have to find that time.
And I know there's all these influencers out there that are like,
you need to have time for meditation and you need to do this, this and this.
(29:33):
I just say, stop, take a deep breath.
And whenever you're experiencing right now is part of the fuel that's going to go back
into your artistry.
So don't be afraid to live it.
Some of it's really hard.
I mean, there are people that we're talking to that might have debt issues.
The world is in a really strange place, all kinds of stuff.
(29:55):
It may be really hard to feel a relationship falling apart,
but that is the fuel that gives you the anger, the love, the joy,
the frustration that you can put into the performance of that thing that you do.
I think that's very important.
So don't be afraid to be enthralled with something.
(30:18):
I can't help but emphasize what I said before.
I lived a very tailored life for a long time.
And the schools I attended and the people I was around, apart from my mother
and some of her artist friends were, they were all lawyers and doctors.
(30:40):
And they had never made a wrong move.
And they went to the best schools in the country and all the things.
And so when you're around that, you don't know where this crazy part of you lives, right?
The part of you that needs to go into a room, turn the music up really loud and dance.
(31:00):
And I think that we have to find spaces for that.
And we have to not look at what other people, I don't know, it's for those people that we have
to look and wonder and be fascinated by the world because they're so busy.
They're so busy and they need it.
(31:20):
They need it so badly.
So A is aligning your life.
So this is where you do have to make space.
And space could be physical.
Like it may be that you need to create space in your house.
You may need to put your instruments out.
You may need to face your art.
You may need to put the things out so you can see them so that at some point during the day
(31:43):
you will pick them up.
But also space can be, it can actually be time in your schedule
and and room for re-engaging old friendships.
I have a lot of friends who are very, very successful.
Some of them are much more successful than I am, though they don't think so.
I mean, we're all, I think that's also funny.
(32:05):
Creatives are all like, well, I didn't do this and you did this and that's silly.
- Comparison, yeah.
- Yes, comparison, but it's more than that.
It's like we are in awe of other people's art.
I think that's fine.
I look at Joni Mitchell, Joan Didion.
I look at all the crazy people who were involved in music in the 60s and 70s
(32:28):
and some of their lifestyle was crazy.
They were talking to each other.
They were parties with one another, were with great thinkers.
They stayed up late at night listening to each other's music,
reading each other's books, going to each other's plays.
We need to make space for that.
We need to put creative people around us again.
(32:53):
Because it reminds us that we are that.
I think that's really, really important.
I don't mean going to huge concerts.
I mean, people in your daily space.
- New community, yeah.
- That's important.
Finally, we're at return.
So we're turning to a daily practice.
So if you are a singer, do your vocal warm-ups.
(33:13):
Work on a song.
Put something in your life.
If you're writing music, you need to write just a little bit every day.
You need to find joy back in the discipline of doing the thing.
Some of it is much more complicated than others.
I would say keep it simple.
Whatever you did before, return to that.
(33:35):
And find the joy in that.
Because whether this thing that you're working on takes off
and becomes culturally significant
and it goes all over the globe and people are talking about it
or you have someone in your neighborhood or in your city
that is incredibly touched by it,
(33:55):
it doesn't matter because you doing it is the thing
that brings you the most joy.
I mean, my desire is to get people back into professional arts.
But at the same time, we have to be excited
about just doing it for ourselves.
- Yeah, yeah. Baby steps.
- Right.
And then the last thing is keep this promise to yourself.
(34:16):
So you've admitted that you're an artist.
Don't renege on that.
Your kid, like if you do have kids
or if you do have young people in your life,
they don't know how to put this in their life anymore.
They watch endless amounts of influencers
use their creativity to get likes on social media.
And that's fine.
You may want to put your stuff on social media
(34:37):
and I'm all for that.
But there are not a lot of young people
who have the patience to sit and listen to oratory or do these.
I mean, I actually think there are communities
that do this really, really well,
like the spoken word performers
who do incredible spoken word poetry and live performance.
(35:02):
They have incredible patience to listen to really awesome
and just thought provoking word art.
There are other cultures that just don't have that patience.
So I think showing your kids and young people around you
that you're keeping this promise as an artist,
you don't care what they think about you.
(35:22):
You're going to get up every day
and this is going to be part of your life.
That will be invaluable to them as an adult
because they will put that in their life too.
And I think it's healthy.
- Yeah.
I love the fact that you do this.
You've created this movement
because there's something that you wanted.
You would have liked for yourself
as several points in your life.
(35:43):
You're helping others.
And now you're actually practicing it
and modeling it for your own family.
I just think that is such a cool return
to where it started, isn't it?
- I think that's very true.
I will tell you, I can say these things
because I did this several times
(36:03):
and I've done this these steps several times,
not knowing what I was doing.
And it was really hard.
Reaching back out to my artistic groups,
going to a new city,
because I've moved several times,
moving is a huge way to get unhinged
from your creative community.
To go back in and say,
(36:24):
"Hey, I have something to contribute
to this new community,"
is very frightening.
And I think that takes people a minute.
But I would say it's all worth it.
It's very much worth it.
- Oh, definitely.
Well, I'm so glad that you are doing that
and then also able to, again, do it for yourself
(36:48):
because it sounds like you have this absolute calling
and this inner calling to be creative
and getting back there and refinding it each time
you go through one of these stages.
That's just brilliant.
- Well, Abi, I have a question.
- Yes.
- As you have pursued this podcast,
(37:09):
what are you gravitating to creatively,
even as you've talked to and are gathering creatives?
What's buzzing in you?
What have you been doing?
- I mean, that's a great question
because when I started this podcast,
(37:30):
I recorded a bunch of episodes back to back
because I run my own business.
Life is very, very busy.
So I was like, I need to do a bunch of these back to back.
So then when life happens,
I've still got my episodes going out.
And that was insanely busy.
I was doing four, five, six episodes a week.
(37:51):
But that was the time that I felt most energetic,
most creatively inspired, and just full of beams
ready to get out there and do that.
And so I guess like how I actually channeled that,
one, it really gave me fuel and energy
(38:12):
to continue to grow my business.
So I could have more people in my team keeping things going
so I could make more space for this type of thing in my life.
And then two, I actually picked up my paints again,
which I haven't done in years and years and years.
And just making terrible, terrible art.
(38:35):
But just I love the fact that I gave myself space
to just sit down and noodle away with my paints,
not even finish your painting,
but just be quiet and listen to the birds
and feel the paint brush on my fingers
and methodically mixing paints and stuff.
(38:56):
It was just like this wonderful quietness in my life,
which I really do not make enough space for.
So yeah, I think just through talking about creativity
with other people has kind of refueled that in me.
And it's been such a great result,
an unexpected result for this podcast.
(39:18):
I love that.
Well, I was going to say one of the things
that all artists should do is put real art around them.
And if they know a local artist like Abi,
they should be having her art in,
they should have your art in their house.
Or at least the podcast.
You can listen to the podcast in your house.
That's true.
My physical art, not quite yet.
(39:42):
Well, see, there you are.
You're limiting yourself.
You don't know.
Somebody may see your art and it may blow their mind.
Yeah.
Although I do feel like for me,
so much of creativity is a process
and like the end result of me actually making something
that is really nice.
That doesn't really bother me.
Like if I never finished my painting
and I work on it for the next 10 years,
(40:04):
I will be happy because the process is enough for me.
Yeah.
And you know, I will tell you,
there are things that the process is enough for me.
Like I don't aspire necessarily to go back
into professional dance,
but I do need to dance every day.
And it's funny, like if someone who's listening to this
(40:25):
gets interested in what we do
and how I get people back into their art,
I actually have steps for each kind of physical art
or art form that can kind of get you back in.
But I'll be the first to say that my exercise of choice is dance.
It's not the art that I want to...
(40:47):
I mean, I do love doing it professionally.
I've done it in some, you know,
I've been in musicals and things like that.
But it's the thing that brings me the most joy
that doesn't require me to make any sound.
I can do it for myself.
If somebody sees me, I'm not embarrassed by it.
But you know, it's for me.
Like it's not...
It doesn't need to be for anybody else.
(41:07):
Yeah.
But there are other things that are for others.
And what brings you the most joy
is actually the most important thing,
the thing that you gain life from.
Yeah, 100%.
And whether it's for you or for you to share with the world,
that's completely up to you.
I love that.
I love that.
(41:28):
And so what I'll do is with this episode,
I'll pop in the links for your spark movement.
So if anyone is interested in getting back in touch
with their creativity
and just need a little bit of support,
they can go to that link and work with you.
But I want to say thank you so much for joining me today.
(41:48):
That was a wonderful conversation.
I've kept you up very late.
Where you are.
So I appreciate it.
Thank you, Abi.
And I also want to say thank you to everyone who is
doing to do Creativity (42:00):
Uncovered today.
I really hope that this episode has inspired you just to return.
And I hope that it helps you summon your creativity
the next time that you need it.
[Music]
(42:42):
If you've made it this far,
a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (42:47):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded
on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respect to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at
Crisp Communications.
And the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(43:08):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around.
And help us on our mission to unlock more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
Uncovered.
(00:09):
My name is Abi Gatling and I am on a journey to uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get inventive and open their imagination.
I really want to know how people find creative solutions and then how they use them at home,
work, play and everything in between.
(00:30):
And my goal for this podcast is that by the end of it you'll be armed with a whole suite
of tried and tested ways to summon creativity the next time that you need it.
Now today I am speaking with Kimberly Lahodny who is an actor, singer, dancer, screenwriter,
(00:52):
she's working radio, she's working TV and she is now the founder of a movement that helps
women reclaim their creative genius and skyrocket their life ROI.
And I'm so, so keen to find out how she does it.
So let's dive in.
Welcome, Kimberly.
Thank you, Abi.
Well, I'm really excited to be here.
This is a bit of a personal journey for me because I've restarted my creative life several times.
(01:19):
So when we came up with a way to articulate this to others so that they could get back
into their creative life, it really brought up so many things in my own journey that reminded
me how important it was that creativity be an active part of someone's life for their whole
life long, whether they're trying to get back in professionally or if they just need it in their
(01:42):
daily life because they don't know who they are without it.
So I don't know where you want me to start.
I can tell you a little bit about my crazy journey or we can go into how all of this began, but
where do you want me to start?
Look over any and all of the above.
But given that you mentioned it, like, you know, your draw to creativity,
(02:05):
tell me what is creativity to you and what is it that you just keep going back to?
Oh, that is so great.
So it was really funny when I was preparing for this.
I thought about the first word in our little returning to creative life and that's surrendering
to who you are.
(02:25):
And I believe that we're each made in a particular way to respond to the world around us
in a creative expression.
Some of it can come out more corporate.
Some of it can come out much more creative.
But we know it when we're kids.
We know that when we encounter something beautiful or we hear music for the first time
(02:48):
or we have an inspirational experience, there is an inclination to respond.
And each for each person, it's completely different.
And I know for me, I needed to articulate what I was feeling and sensing in a physical way.
But I didn't know how to do that.
(03:08):
And I actually had a couple of people in my life direct me towards what ultimately really was like
dance and acting and articulating what I was seeing in a way that looked different than
how it was coming in.
Does that make sense?
Oh, I mean, it's reinterpretation.
(03:30):
It is reinterpretation, but we do that all the time.
So so much information comes at us on a daily basis and how we process that in our minds
allows us to digest it and make it our own.
It gives us understanding.
And for a creative person, that can articulate into another form of a creative expression that's
(03:54):
needed.
We don't know that it's needed.
We feel awkward and weird when we're little.
We think that we're really strange for wanting to take this thing that we saw and then go paint
a picture or go write something or create a play or whatever.
But we have this natural inclination.
I know for me, the very first time I heard classical music, I wanted to I wanted to dance
(04:16):
and I wanted to choreograph something.
And it was very natural.
Like I couldn't keep myself from doing it.
And even if it wasn't socially appropriate at that moment, later on in the day or at some point in my
in my daily life, I had to take that thing and make it my own somehow and create something out
of it.
(04:36):
And it felt so needed.
It felt like I had to like if you see something, say something.
If you experience something, create something.
And I think that if you're inclined creatively, you don't know where it comes from necessarily,
but you know that you need it.
You don't know if anyone else needs it.
But like you feel restless unless you produce something.
(05:01):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
It's kind of like this feeling that is bubbling away inside of you and you have to express it somehow.
And for some people, it is through a creative expression.
I love that.
Oh, yeah.
Well, and I'll tell you one of the funniest first things that I think I did.
(05:23):
And I'm sure there are many.
I don't know the age range of our podcast.
So I'm going to definitely date myself.
But when I was a little girl and I heard Madonna's material girl for the first time,
I then immediately had to perform it for my family.
And I had to create a dance and there was a whole a whole show.
And that's what I had to do.
(05:44):
Like I had to make it mine and then I had to tell it to somebody else.
And I think that is the human experience.
But I think we are all so embarrassed.
And at times we can be shamed and then we walk away from some of the things we feel inclined to do.
Yeah, totally.
That that is a recurring theme on this podcast is that people are embarrassed,
(06:09):
particularly if they haven't done anything that is overly creative in a while.
They are kind of embarrassed to put themselves out there and actually do that.
This kind of fear of judgment and fear that is going to turn out absolutely crap.
Holds them back from actually expressing themselves, which is such a shame.
(06:32):
So it's great to see.
It's great to hear that you're talking about that.
I'm sure we will go into that a bit more when we talk about your movement.
But I want to know how does that, how do you creatively express yourself?
Because you have so many aspects to your personality,
all throughout the plumbing arts, writing, singing, screenwriting.
(06:53):
Let's start there, I guess.
Like what has your creative journey been in terms of your creative career?
Well, my inner life was very rich.
I'm currently doing a small writing piece right now that kind of focuses on like the silent observer.
(07:17):
And for whatever reason, we all have our family life and the things that we've seen in our lives.
Whether they're complicated or, well, we have various experiences that we come from.
A lot of my early life was very proper.
And so it was not appropriate to be very vocal or loud or
(07:46):
artistic in everyday life, except that my mother was an artist.
So she gave me times in the day that it was appropriate.
Now, she was a physical artist.
So she draws and paints and she took time out of her day every day as a mom to give her child about an hour of art.
(08:08):
And during that time, she would teach me about art and we could do anything with that hour.
But that gave me like crazy fuel to start journaling.
So I definitely had a writing journey from very early on.
And then I had this physical and vocal expression that I wanted and needed.
(08:30):
And I didn't, my family did not have room for that.
So it was fun.
You know, I could be at a family event and I could perform Madonna's material overall and everybody thinks it's cute.
But on a daily practice, there was not room in the day for me to go and explore those things unless I was just taking ballet.
(08:52):
Like they had to be these pre-subscribed or prescribed, I'm sorry, boxes that fit the social construct, right?
Like girls go to ballet class or they go and do this or they go and do that.
And that gave me fuel too.
But it wasn't like it wasn't the freedom that I wanted.
Yeah.
Wow.
So I felt like I was like bubbling up.
(09:13):
Yeah.
And my journey was very strange because my mom got me involved in figure skating and this is going to sound very, very strange.
But I was a competitive figure skater at a very young age.
And in that scenario, I took dance to support skating.
I took, I took an acting class to support skating.
(09:33):
And there was so much physical freedom in creating the choreography that went into our artistic program.
Because back then you had your technical program, which was all the things that you have to perform on the ice.
And then your artistic, which was like, you get to, you get to choreograph this with your coach and it can be extremely exciting and daring.
(09:57):
And I had a lot of life in that.
It wasn't as much as I wanted, but it was, it filled that.
That bubble, that creative bubble.
But when I was 13, I had a really bad skating accident.
It took me out of competition.
And for about a year and a half, I did nothing.
And my mom was like, this is, you're a mess.
(10:19):
Like something's wrong.
We need to do something about this.
So she made me go back into dance.
And I got very good at initially at ballet, but then all the other dance styles.
So I took modern and I took jazz and I took tab and I couldn't get enough of that.
And that brought me into theater.
(10:39):
Someone in theater said, can you sing?
So then I started singing.
And then somebody, you know, it just kind of built from there.
Then I, that's like a real, yeah, a real acting class.
And like so many people who are in performing arts, we hear that, that term triple threat.
And so that was the aim that you need to get really good at singing, dancing and acting.
(11:03):
So that any role they throw you into, you can just do.
But as I got older, I also was fascinated by directing and writing.
And having control over what the actors did do.
So that's in short how the journey happened.
But it was, it was because I always felt a little constrained.
(11:26):
And so I couldn't help but want more and more and more.
Yeah.
That's really interesting that a lot of the people who've come on this podcast have spoken about,
I guess, the pressure to move away from creativity.
You get to a certain point where you're told to be serious and you need to stop thinking
about your future and all this stuff.
(11:47):
And that means that creativity kind of gets pushed out.
It's interesting that you had pressure to kind of be creative, but only within these specific
areas.
That is not something we've heard on this before.
That I can imagine the amount of pressure that would bring on you in exactly the same type
of thing.
It's like the pressure to not necessarily be your complete free self.
(12:11):
Yes.
Well, I can relate to that other argument because my father is a very successful lawyer
and developer.
And I have dabbled in real estate development and all that stuff.
Like if you search my name on the internet, you might find out that I have all these other licenses.
But this was always my first thing.
(12:33):
And this is what, for the majority of my life, I've been able to do professionally.
And I had that.
I mean, I would have moments as more of an adult mom, married adult that said, oh, maybe
it's time.
Maybe it's time to stop doing all these things and just get a normal job.
I definitely feel that pressure sometimes.
(12:56):
But then I also don't know if I can emotionally survive if I were to abandon this part of my life.
And it's like what my mother saw.
When I stopped having an outlet, I really saw an emotional, I mean, I would say that there was
depression.
Like there was just, there was an emotional loss.
(13:20):
There was an outlet that wasn't getting plugged in anymore.
And I felt a little dead inside.
Yeah.
And I see that with other people.
Like I see that they were built for so much more and they watch other people do it.
And I think my question has been, what have you walked away from that, you know,
(13:41):
like you're just watching other people do it on social media or on television.
And really, you've given yourself all these arguments why you can't ever do it again.
But what happens if you did?
What would happen if you did?
Go back to everything.
Yeah.
Well, what's the worst that could happen?
Nothing.
It plays into that fear, the fear mindset.
(14:02):
It always comes back to that, doesn't it?
So you were a screenwriter in Los Angeles and then you've moved away from that.
Where are you now?
Not really.
So well, I've moved away from Los Angeles.
So I got my master's in screenwriting at Pepperdine.
(14:23):
And then I worked in a production company for about two and a half years.
And I also worked a lot of other odd jobs because if you live in Los Angeles,
you know that the first couple of years of being anything in Los Angeles,
you just you get paid nothing or you work on favors and you hope somebody's going to see your
(14:43):
talent.
But I worked in creative development and I got to help out on a bunch of things that never gave
me credits.
And when I moved away from Los Angeles, I moved up to Sacramento and that's when I got into radio.
So a lot of my media writing went right into storytelling for radio and that was great.
(15:04):
And I did that for, I think, five years.
And that was a happy place to be.
It wasn't a full fulfillment like I talk about sometimes being art adjacent.
Because as a singer, what did you say?
What is art adjacent?
So it's like you work next to the thing that you love.
(15:25):
I mean, I was at a radio station that I was in the news department.
But I wasn't a I wasn't a recording artist and nobody knew that I could sing.
I mean, so my undergrad is in classical voice and I got a degree in music.
And yet I was working in the newsroom learning about audio production.
(15:49):
Well, I mean, I'd already learned about audio production, but I was creating content
that had nothing to do with the music.
It had everything to do with just social issues and things like that.
So I felt like I was like right next to the thing I loved.
And then at the same time, that radio station was developing.
They thought they would develop a television network and they were asking me to start writing
(16:12):
short little vignettes for the channel.
And I started doing that and then they abandoned it until I think this past year.
So now they're back to doing that, but I don't work for them anymore.
So it's like when you're just next to the thing next to the thing that you love to do,
that's art adjacent.
Yeah, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
(16:32):
Do you think like, is it so close and it's painful or is it good just to still be in the realm of it all?
I think it's good to be in it for different seasons.
I mean, if your season is like that season, I had just gotten married and we started having kids.
And I was doing enough for my resume to still make me valuable in this space.
(16:56):
But it did make me sad that I wasn't creating original content, like original art.
I was just telling a good story well.
And there's a lot of value in that.
I would also say the things that you pick up when you're in an art adjacent job,
like some people, a lot of artists and writers and creatives find themselves in marketing.
(17:21):
They just do because there's a beautiful space where really a creative eye, color,
artistry, creativity can be used in the ad and in marketing field and can be used for persuasive
reasons. There are things to be really proud about in that world.
(17:41):
And there's also things that you're like, I wish my art wasn't involved in that marketing.
I had nothing to do with that.
But I think there's a lot of value because artists become people who understand
that there's a business and a work ethic behind art too.
I think there's definitely validity there.
(18:02):
Yeah, it is interesting because like marketing, it is a form of creativity,
but it is purely for financial gain.
It is.
And so it's kind of what I consider to be creative.
I've moved into this because I wanted to have a career that was allowing me to
(18:24):
head build and also be creative.
But I also kind of feel like it's not a pure expression of my creative self.
Which is why I do these things on the side, like this podcast.
And find other things outside of it because that's when you can truly set the agenda
and express yourself and from who you really are.
(18:47):
And I just think it's as you said, it's like a season.
So let's talk about seasons because a few people have mentioned seasons.
It's kind of like the seasons of the year as seasons of your life, right?
Yes.
Well, I would say that a true artist needs to embrace seasons and rhythms.
And it's really an older concept that comes from really understanding the rhythm of life,
(19:14):
the rhythm of a day, knowing that there are things that we have to do that we're responsible for.
And then there are times where we can meditate.
There are times where we can build up inspiration.
And then there are times to process that.
And that's where the creative life explodes.
And many, many people that came before us had very robust creative lives.
(19:36):
You know, when we didn't have so much television, when we...
And I say that, I mean, I've been in that industry, but I can call it what it is,
a lot of it is distraction.
Some of it is gorgeous.
Some of it, when you're watching, you know, you've been changed by something.
And I think that's the purpose of good art.
(19:57):
But some of it is just there to distract you and to sell you things.
So we got to get real about that.
But when there was not that, you had people reading to one another.
You had people composing poetry.
You had people rising very early and talking about how their senses translated
what they were seeing in their day.
(20:18):
And I think that there are definitely seasons like motherhood.
And I don't think we talk enough about this.
There is so much incredible sorrow and beauty and depth of life that happens in motherhood.
And artists, I think, can beat themselves up during that season
if they're not producing during that season.
(20:40):
But I would say that if they embraced that, they're building up a huge wealth of things
they can use later.
And I also think that there's a part of you that whatever is happening,
not just motherhood, because that's a very narrow, at this time,
(21:02):
not everybody experiences motherhood.
But there are tragic things, difficult things, things that take you out of the loop.
But an artist embraces all of it and then uses it later.
And I think that's also what keeps an artist sane.
Otherwise, they do other things like try to mask it.
(21:23):
Because artists also feel things really deeply.
I'd argue that every person was meant to be a creative being in one way or another.
But artists are often they're empathic and they feel things and they have to
figure out how to process what they're feeling.
And that's why so many of them get themselves into trouble with
(21:48):
addictive things because they feel so much.
And if they don't have a place to reprocess and get it out,
it can actually get them very sad.
So I'm going back to mental health.
But I think that's all on purpose.
I think we're meant to get it out.
(22:09):
And that's why the fear stuff, going back to fear and stigma, is really a lie.
Because for better or worse, you're meant to be this way.
It's not a mistake.
I guess I think it's like whatever your expression is, if it's true to you, then it's right.
I mean, yeah, I think so.
(22:30):
I mean, I think we've put around us the image of who gets to tell the story.
And I talk a little bit about this in the first element of the spark movement.
We have let casting directors and people tell us who our singers are and who our actors are
(22:51):
and who gets to write this and who gets to tell this.
There is, I can't remember the statistic.
I wish I had pulled it up today.
But there's a picture on my website that shows you that I was one of only three, no, four girls
in a 50-person writing program, all the rest for none.
So that means that the majority of content that we consume on a daily basis is being produced by men.
(23:16):
It's changing.
We have a lot more women voices going out.
But notoriously, the main voices that are going out and creating content are not women.
And that's interesting too.
That's a whole other topic.
But we will take ourselves out of the artistic game sometimes because we think that we don't fit an image
(23:39):
and that is just baloney.
It's really a huge deficit that I think our world is missing.
Yes.
So that's a pretty good segue into talking about your spark movement,
which is primarily targeted towards women, isn't it?
It is.
(23:59):
Well, I think because I am a woman and I can only know how I felt.
I've talked to some guys that have gone through this,
but there are so many things in a woman's life that can absolutely derail what we're doing,
especially in the physical arts.
Like if you're a dancer and let's say you do have a baby.
Well, that just sometimes that takes you out of performing or out of what you think you physically
(24:25):
need to look like.
And that can just derail you forever.
You might say, "Well, I'll never be back in shape or I'll never be able to do that again."
And it's like, "Well, you might be right if you never try again too."
There may be limitations.
Your body may forever have changed, but maybe not.
So is it going to help you any to put the limit around you?
(24:48):
So I think it's directed more at women just because we've got so many things that
really when those things happen, your life stops.
Like when a baby is born, which I just had another baby, which is insane.
Yes.
You know, immediately, like everything stops for a second, at least for a while.
So we can definitely talk about it.
(25:09):
I think the spark movement came out of the things I've had to do several different times.
I mentioned that we just had a baby.
I'm not going to say that she was our oops baby.
We're delighted that she's here, but we did not know that this was happening.
And she's our fourth.
(25:30):
So that's crazy.
Yes, congratulations.
Thank you.
But also, wow, like, I mean, we were, we are so excited.
And it really actually allows me to test out something that I've been pursuing now that
my kids are old enough, which is doing this spark movement in front of them,
(25:52):
which I think is really key to what we're about to talk about.
So the first letter, so we love our little acronyms, right?
Spark stands for five things that you can do right now to get yourself back in the game.
And the first one is surrender.
So surrendering basically to who you know you're meant to be.
Like you have been this person your whole life.
(26:15):
Like maybe you've been writing feverishly in a journal since you were tiny.
And you think it's nonsense, but really you're Joan Didion and you don't know.
There are things that you see that only you've seen.
There are things that you can say, maybe you're a songwriter, maybe,
you know, maybe you are a singer songwriter, maybe you have whole ideas in your head,
(26:36):
but you never ever put them down because you don't think that you fit the bill.
Surrendering is really just saying, you know, and I am this thing,
raise your hand and self identify.
It's like, alcoholics, anonymous.
It's like, yes, I am this.
I confess I'm secretly an artist and I hate saying that because I feel like I know all
(26:58):
these other amazing artists that are really artists, but I too am an artist and I'm going
to start acting like one.
So that's really what surrender is.
And that's really hard.
That's like one of the hardest things to do.
Women can be self-defeating.
Women take themselves out of the game.
And women tend to have an idea or an ideal of what something should look like
(27:23):
and they'll give you 10 to 100 reasons why they aren't what their ideal is.
And art is really about living in the moment.
But if you're really practicing a creative life, you're not.
This is really hard to do.
You're not judging your art.
You're just doing it.
That's where the joy comes from.
(27:44):
So we have to stop judging ourselves and we have to self identify.
I wrote this thing down.
I want to read it really fast because I think it's really important.
When I was in LA, I often heard people say that the movie theater was their church.
And that's probably because I was around industry people and this is like their whole life.
(28:04):
That's where they didn't go to church.
They didn't go to a religious institution.
So they never heard anyone give them a sermon, but a good movie could change their life.
And that's what great art is.
I know I mentioned that.
But great art is about showing somebody something different, a different perspective.
And when they see it, they've experienced something that they couldn't experience themselves
(28:28):
or they've always felt that way, but they couldn't articulate it.
And so your voice is absolutely necessary because it might help somebody else get somewhere
that they couldn't get to on their own.
It's as if your creative gift is part of a divine conversation and the creator,
(28:49):
whether you believe that or not, gave you that gift so that you could be part of that discussion
and lift somebody and yourself into a different place out of the monotony of our everyday.
So that's why we have to self identify.
Like if you say you're not this thing, you're cutting off your own arm.
(29:09):
Okay. So P. So S is surrender.
P is pursue wonder.
So this is when I've self identified and now you need to like be present.
This is really hard for people because our lives move really fast.
So you do have to find that time.
And I know there's all these influencers out there that are like,
you need to have time for meditation and you need to do this, this and this.
(29:33):
I just say, stop, take a deep breath.
And whenever you're experiencing right now is part of the fuel that's going to go back
into your artistry.
So don't be afraid to live it.
Some of it's really hard.
I mean, there are people that we're talking to that might have debt issues.
The world is in a really strange place, all kinds of stuff.
(29:55):
It may be really hard to feel a relationship falling apart,
but that is the fuel that gives you the anger, the love, the joy,
the frustration that you can put into the performance of that thing that you do.
I think that's very important.
So don't be afraid to be enthralled with something.
(30:18):
I can't help but emphasize what I said before.
I lived a very tailored life for a long time.
And the schools I attended and the people I was around, apart from my mother
and some of her artist friends were, they were all lawyers and doctors.
(30:40):
And they had never made a wrong move.
And they went to the best schools in the country and all the things.
And so when you're around that, you don't know where this crazy part of you lives, right?
The part of you that needs to go into a room, turn the music up really loud and dance.
(31:00):
And I think that we have to find spaces for that.
And we have to not look at what other people, I don't know, it's for those people that we have
to look and wonder and be fascinated by the world because they're so busy.
They're so busy and they need it.
(31:20):
They need it so badly.
So A is aligning your life.
So this is where you do have to make space.
And space could be physical.
Like it may be that you need to create space in your house.
You may need to put your instruments out.
You may need to face your art.
You may need to put the things out so you can see them so that at some point during the day
(31:43):
you will pick them up.
But also space can be, it can actually be time in your schedule
and and room for re-engaging old friendships.
I have a lot of friends who are very, very successful.
Some of them are much more successful than I am, though they don't think so.
I mean, we're all, I think that's also funny.
(32:05):
Creatives are all like, well, I didn't do this and you did this and that's silly.
- Comparison, yeah.
- Yes, comparison, but it's more than that.
It's like we are in awe of other people's art.
I think that's fine.
I look at Joni Mitchell, Joan Didion.
I look at all the crazy people who were involved in music in the 60s and 70s
(32:28):
and some of their lifestyle was crazy.
They were talking to each other.
They were parties with one another, were with great thinkers.
They stayed up late at night listening to each other's music,
reading each other's books, going to each other's plays.
We need to make space for that.
We need to put creative people around us again.
(32:53):
Because it reminds us that we are that.
I think that's really, really important.
I don't mean going to huge concerts.
I mean, people in your daily space.
- New community, yeah.
- That's important.
Finally, we're at return.
So we're turning to a daily practice.
So if you are a singer, do your vocal warm-ups.
(33:13):
Work on a song.
Put something in your life.
If you're writing music, you need to write just a little bit every day.
You need to find joy back in the discipline of doing the thing.
Some of it is much more complicated than others.
I would say keep it simple.
Whatever you did before, return to that.
(33:35):
And find the joy in that.
Because whether this thing that you're working on takes off
and becomes culturally significant
and it goes all over the globe and people are talking about it
or you have someone in your neighborhood or in your city
that is incredibly touched by it,
(33:55):
it doesn't matter because you doing it is the thing
that brings you the most joy.
I mean, my desire is to get people back into professional arts.
But at the same time, we have to be excited
about just doing it for ourselves.
- Yeah, yeah. Baby steps.
- Right.
And then the last thing is keep this promise to yourself.
(34:16):
So you've admitted that you're an artist.
Don't renege on that.
Your kid, like if you do have kids
or if you do have young people in your life,
they don't know how to put this in their life anymore.
They watch endless amounts of influencers
use their creativity to get likes on social media.
And that's fine.
You may want to put your stuff on social media
(34:37):
and I'm all for that.
But there are not a lot of young people
who have the patience to sit and listen to oratory or do these.
I mean, I actually think there are communities
that do this really, really well,
like the spoken word performers
who do incredible spoken word poetry and live performance.
(35:02):
They have incredible patience to listen to really awesome
and just thought provoking word art.
There are other cultures that just don't have that patience.
So I think showing your kids and young people around you
that you're keeping this promise as an artist,
you don't care what they think about you.
(35:22):
You're going to get up every day
and this is going to be part of your life.
That will be invaluable to them as an adult
because they will put that in their life too.
And I think it's healthy.
- Yeah.
I love the fact that you do this.
You've created this movement
because there's something that you wanted.
You would have liked for yourself
as several points in your life.
(35:43):
You're helping others.
And now you're actually practicing it
and modeling it for your own family.
I just think that is such a cool return
to where it started, isn't it?
- I think that's very true.
I will tell you, I can say these things
because I did this several times
(36:03):
and I've done this these steps several times,
not knowing what I was doing.
And it was really hard.
Reaching back out to my artistic groups,
going to a new city,
because I've moved several times,
moving is a huge way to get unhinged
from your creative community.
To go back in and say,
(36:24):
"Hey, I have something to contribute
to this new community,"
is very frightening.
And I think that takes people a minute.
But I would say it's all worth it.
It's very much worth it.
- Oh, definitely.
Well, I'm so glad that you are doing that
and then also able to, again, do it for yourself
(36:48):
because it sounds like you have this absolute calling
and this inner calling to be creative
and getting back there and refinding it each time
you go through one of these stages.
That's just brilliant.
- Well, Abi, I have a question.
- Yes.
- As you have pursued this podcast,
(37:09):
what are you gravitating to creatively,
even as you've talked to and are gathering creatives?
What's buzzing in you?
What have you been doing?
- I mean, that's a great question
because when I started this podcast,
(37:30):
I recorded a bunch of episodes back to back
because I run my own business.
Life is very, very busy.
So I was like, I need to do a bunch of these back to back.
So then when life happens,
I've still got my episodes going out.
And that was insanely busy.
I was doing four, five, six episodes a week.
(37:51):
But that was the time that I felt most energetic,
most creatively inspired, and just full of beams
ready to get out there and do that.
And so I guess like how I actually channeled that,
one, it really gave me fuel and energy
(38:12):
to continue to grow my business.
So I could have more people in my team keeping things going
so I could make more space for this type of thing in my life.
And then two, I actually picked up my paints again,
which I haven't done in years and years and years.
And just making terrible, terrible art.
(38:35):
But just I love the fact that I gave myself space
to just sit down and noodle away with my paints,
not even finish your painting,
but just be quiet and listen to the birds
and feel the paint brush on my fingers
and methodically mixing paints and stuff.
(38:56):
It was just like this wonderful quietness in my life,
which I really do not make enough space for.
So yeah, I think just through talking about creativity
with other people has kind of refueled that in me.
And it's been such a great result,
an unexpected result for this podcast.
(39:18):
I love that.
Well, I was going to say one of the things
that all artists should do is put real art around them.
And if they know a local artist like Abi,
they should be having her art in,
they should have your art in their house.
Or at least the podcast.
You can listen to the podcast in your house.
That's true.
My physical art, not quite yet.
(39:42):
Well, see, there you are.
You're limiting yourself.
You don't know.
Somebody may see your art and it may blow their mind.
Yeah.
Although I do feel like for me,
so much of creativity is a process
and like the end result of me actually making something
that is really nice.
That doesn't really bother me.
Like if I never finished my painting
and I work on it for the next 10 years,
(40:04):
I will be happy because the process is enough for me.
Yeah.
And you know, I will tell you,
there are things that the process is enough for me.
Like I don't aspire necessarily to go back
into professional dance,
but I do need to dance every day.
And it's funny, like if someone who's listening to this
(40:25):
gets interested in what we do
and how I get people back into their art,
I actually have steps for each kind of physical art
or art form that can kind of get you back in.
But I'll be the first to say that my exercise of choice is dance.
It's not the art that I want to...
(40:47):
I mean, I do love doing it professionally.
I've done it in some, you know,
I've been in musicals and things like that.
But it's the thing that brings me the most joy
that doesn't require me to make any sound.
I can do it for myself.
If somebody sees me, I'm not embarrassed by it.
But you know, it's for me.
Like it's not...
It doesn't need to be for anybody else.
(41:07):
Yeah.
But there are other things that are for others.
And what brings you the most joy
is actually the most important thing,
the thing that you gain life from.
Yeah, 100%.
And whether it's for you or for you to share with the world,
that's completely up to you.
I love that.
I love that.
(41:28):
And so what I'll do is with this episode,
I'll pop in the links for your spark movement.
So if anyone is interested in getting back in touch
with their creativity
and just need a little bit of support,
they can go to that link and work with you.
But I want to say thank you so much for joining me today.
(41:48):
That was a wonderful conversation.
I've kept you up very late.
Where you are.
So I appreciate it.
Thank you, Abi.
And I also want to say thank you to everyone who is
doing to do Creativity (42:00):
Uncovered today.
I really hope that this episode has inspired you just to return.
And I hope that it helps you summon your creativity
the next time that you need it.
[Music]
(42:42):
If you've made it this far,
a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (42:47):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded
on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respect to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at
Crisp Communications.
And the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(43:08):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around.
And help us on our mission to unlock more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
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